Open mike 30/06/2022

50 comments on “Open mike 30/06/2022 ”

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1. Jenny how to get there 1

   30 June 2022 at 6:41 am

   That's the sound of imperialisms clashing

   While calling Russia the most significant and direct threat to itself, NATO said “authoritarian actors” in general were challenging its interests. In particular, China was criticized for allegedly using “its economic leverage to create strategic dependencies and enhance its influence.”

   https://www.rt.com/news/558073-nato-adopts-new-strategic-concept-russia/?

   War on nature, war on each other.

   Imperialism is capitalist competition writ large.

   War and climate change have the same economic and political drivers.

   If we can’t stop one, we can’t stop the other.
2. Ad 2

   30 June 2022 at 7:28 am

   Great to see R Kelly going down for 30 years.

   R. Kelly Is Sentenced to 30 Years on Sex Trafficking Charges: Live Updates – The New York Times (nytimes.com)

   Also Ghislaine Maxwell getting 20 years for sex trafficking.

   Let's see who else gets done for assisting them both.
3. PsyclingLeft.Always 3

   30 June 2022 at 8:10 am

   Nearly …Plastic Free July. I'm linking a page to it. Maybe not possible to go plastic free? Well there are plenty of Alternatives…and suggestions.

   https://www.facebook.com/PlasticFreeJulyAotearoa/

   Because this is what we are faced with….

   https://www.plasticsoupfoundation.org/en/plastic-problem/plastic-soup/more-plastic-than-fish/

   And single use plastic…the worst. So a suggest starter !
   • Bruce 3.1

     30 June 2022 at 9:11 am

     https://hempplastic.com/

     AS usual there is a solution but unfortunatly is doesn't benefit those that pull the strings.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.1.1

       30 June 2022 at 9:33 am

       Hi Bruce. Yes that does look Interesting. And apparently the Hemp uses much less Water than other Alternative Corn as well….

       Just wondering..re the Biodgradeble aspect, if it needs a suitable process/conditions? I did see 6 Months…as opposed to 450 YEARS for some plastic !?

       Plastic pollution is such a very recent problem (maybe 30 years? )

       but Our Planet will bear the consequences for a Thousand years

       I did remember hearing about this on RNZ way back…

       https://dutchreview.com/culture/innovation/worlds-1st-plastic-free-aisle-in-a-dutch-supermarket/

       The NZ supermarket duopoly has massive Greenwash advertising…but they are a major component of the Problem.

       Thanks for your Input : )
4. Alan 4

   30 June 2022 at 10:21 am

   Gee, the internal polls must be diabolical

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • Puckish Rogue 4.1

     30 June 2022 at 11:58 am

     For some reason it kinda reminds me of this:

     [lprent:
     1. You seem to have a problem with adding a video – does the media button not work on comments? All I had to was to remove the anchor link – and lo – it worked! You must be desperate to get people to look at a meaningless video…
     2. Pays to add more of an explanation about what you’re asking people to view.
     3. Along with the comment you’re responding to – neither appear to relate to the post. ]
     • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1

       30 June 2022 at 1:59 pm

       I think people got the message just fine.

       I can't wait for the next thrilling episode of Our polls are tanking so we're panicking Whats Luxon done now
       • Incognito 4.1.1.1

         30 June 2022 at 2:53 pm

         Luxon is not doing anything, which is remarkably good use of Taxpayers’ money. However, when he speaks, he talks in platitudes and says very little or shoots off his mouth and those are the more revealing moments of his short political career so far. I can also hardly wait for the next episode of Lamentable Luxon Lost in La La Land – the gift that keeps giving.
         • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1.1

           30 June 2022 at 2:58 pm

           I heard he once held a door open for a woman…or was it that he didn't, one of the two
           • Incognito 4.1.1.1.1.1

             30 June 2022 at 3:24 pm

             Yup, for Judith …
     • Incognito 4.1.2

       30 June 2022 at 2:41 pm

       @ Lprent: I'd edited the YT link, so I take the blame the credit for buggering it up if that’s what happened. Those inane YT clips drive me up the wall some days.
       • Puckish Rogue 4.1.2.1

         30 June 2022 at 2:48 pm

         Its all good

         Also while the title of the song is the point I'm trying to make its also not a bad song either so you know win-win
         • Incognito 4.1.2.1.1

           30 June 2022 at 2:54 pm

           You were trying!? Are you going for promotion or a pay-rise?
           • Puckish Rogue 4.1.2.1.1.1

             30 June 2022 at 2:57 pm

             You wouldn't believe how much I get paid for doing this but its not about the money, its the public service that counts
             • Incognito …

               30 June 2022 at 3:25 pm

               You lost count at one.
5. Robert Guyton 5

   30 June 2022 at 10:51 am

   Interesting comment from Frank Macskasy:

   "And note that arch fantasist/conspiracist, Chantelle Baker, has "liked" Mr O'Connor's comment. So we know where she stands: bodily autonomy for vaccines against a deadly disease, but not bodily autonomy for an unwanted pregnancy, rape, ectopic pregnancy, incest, etc. So much for "sovereign citizenship"."

   https://frankmacskasy.substack.com/p/united-states-moves-closer-to-theocracy
   • Rosemary McDonald 5.1

     30 June 2022 at 11:32 am

     So we know where she stands: bodily autonomy for vaccines against a deadly disease, but not bodily autonomy for an unwanted pregnancy, rape, ectopic pregnancy, incest, etc.

     Macskasy is more than a little OCD about providing references.

     I see no reference to substantiate the above claim.

     Funny that.
   • Bearded Git 5.2

     30 June 2022 at 3:30 pm

     Nothing over-the-top there then. Talk about over-reaction.

     Around three quarters of abortions in the USA these days are performed in the first 8 weeks using oral medication. Trying to stop women having the right and choice to have a termination in the USA is akin to Canute trying to control the tides.

     Note: Before the attacks start-I entirely oppose what the Supreme Court has done and fully support a woman's right to choose. There will be poor people in particular who will be greatly disadvantaged by the ridiculous SC decision. The 4 SC judges who said that they would not change abortion law to facilitate their elevation to the SC bench should be disbarred.
   • Populuxe1 5.3

     30 June 2022 at 6:00 pm

     Pretty sure one doesn't have to be Nostradamus to have worked that one out from her other topics.
6. Temp ORary 6

   30 June 2022 at 10:59 am

   This vandalism was a lot more pre-meditated than I first realized. Also, the "synagog of Satan" graffiti makes more sense now I know the resident's upbringing:

   The police summary of facts said Pattinson was one of four men who planned for weeks to vandalise the building.

   It was commonly known that Duckor-Jones was part of the LGBTQ community and raised in a Jewish household, the summary said.

   The men allegedly dressed in black clothing, including black hoodies and cloth masks, and went to the property with red spray paint and a black permanent marker at 11pm.

   One of the men, who has not yet appeared in court, allegedly took a rainbow pride flag, attached it to a piece of wood and partially burned it. He then stayed in the car as a getaway driver.

   Pattinson wrote “dancing Israelies” and a symbol of the Star of David underneath in marker on the wall.

   Another man, who has not yet been charged, wrote biblical quotes, anti-Semitic messages and drew crosses.

   They left, drove to the back of the Greymouth Aerodrome and changed their clothes.

   Police believed it was “a hate crime”

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/129122700/man-admits-antisemitic-and-homophobic-attack-on-west-coasts-pink-church

   Yeh, I believe that is a hate crime too! It's good that at least one perp confessed so the events are no longer all "alleged" (e.g. the rainbow flag – maybe it just spontaneously combusted coincidentally like). The sheer number of hate crimes since the police started recording those reported to them drew some comment on Twitter:

   https://twitter.com/cjhood71/status/1542099839995252738?s=20&t=ZkgV7jW68YIUUgF-EDjzOA
   • Molly 6.1

     30 June 2022 at 12:37 pm

     Really harmful behaviour from the young men who did this.

     The hate crime statistic need more detail. Current police policy on this is predicated on the offense felt, rather than offence given or intended. Hate crimes against people because of the protected characteristic of sex, are not recorded, because sex is not included as a hate crime characteristic.

     "A hate crime is an offence perceived by the victim, or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards a person’s race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability or age."

     https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-services/advice-victims/hate-crime

     There is a good article on Gloria, co-authored by Duckor-Jones, that shows his work and his goals regarding the Pink Church he has create. The majority of the public seemed to have interacted positively with him while he has been there.

     https://www.renews.co.nz/i-painted-a-church-pink-in-greymouth-a-house-of-queer-worship/
     • Temp ORary 6.1.1

       30 June 2022 at 1:08 pm

       The simplified version may not include the "protected characteristic of sex", but it seems to be covered under the; "such as", in s9(1) (h) referenced in the 2021 data quality review:

       that the offender committed the offence partly or wholly because of hostility towards a group of persons who have an enduring common characteristic such as race, colour, nationality, religion, gender identity, sexual orientation, age, or disability; and

       (i)

       the hostility is because of the common characteristic; and

       (ii)

       the offender believed that the victim has that characteristic:

       https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0009/latest/DLM135545.html

       https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publication/annual-report-police-data-quality-2021

       Which I was looking at after reading this from a couple of years back:

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/431996/hate-crimes-almost-half-complaints-to-police-wrongly-downgraded
       • Molly 6.1.1.1

         30 June 2022 at 1:17 pm

         Thanks, but still provides no actual details regarding those stated hate crime statistics, which would give some indication of how many are targeted in different demographics, ie. religion, race, gender identity, sexual orientation etc. Even more informative, would be to know how they were targeted and what action the police took in those cases.

         Might be included under "such as" is not the definitive answer that most would accept, but if you do, then well, we'll see how it plays out, in terms of hate crime statistics and hate crimes against women and girls and how they are included in police hate crime policy.

         Interesting that gender identity is included, as it is not currently one of the protected characteristics under the Human Rights Act 1993, but it is because those discrimination characteristics don't come from there, but from the Sentencing Act, which has eliminated both sex and marital status, and included gender identity.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 6.2

     30 June 2022 at 12:49 pm

     A glaring example of a hate crime – what were they 'thinking'? These criminals may have no sense of shame – still, the more sunlight the better, imho.

     Um, we really need to think about what instances like this and others mean for any sense of democracy. The anti-vax protests at parliament earlier this year took overt misogyny – hatred of women – and racism to another level. Um I know the Prime Minister’s been particularly impacted by death threats and abuse but so have other MPs and a lot of journalists as well. Then six days ago in Tauranga a building housing a Rainbow Youth and Transgender support service was burnt down after other anti-queer incidents in that district.
     – Sue Bradford [29 June 2022, @ 8:40 minutes]
     https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018847657
     • Temp ORary 6.2.1

       1 July 2022 at 12:35 am

       Apparently not; DMK, because hate crimes do not yet legally exist as such in Aotearoa. Up at comment 2.1.1, I linked to the Sentencing Act 2002 which appears to guide police understanding of hate crime being "hostility towards a group of persons" as an aggravating factor that: "In sentencing or otherwise dealing with an offender the court must take into account the following aggravating factors to the extent that they are applicable in the case"; alongside mitigating factors that likewise: "In sentencing or otherwise dealing with an offender the court must take into account the following mitigating factors to the extent that they are applicable in the case".

       So in the above case of the vandalism of Gloria; the Pink Church. Aggravating factors would seem to be:

       (d) the extent of any loss, damage, or harm resulting from the offence:

       (h) that the offender committed the offence partly or wholly because of hostility towards a group of persons who have an enduring common characteristic such as race, colour, nationality, religion, gender identity, sexual orientation, age, or disability

       (i) premeditation on the part of the offender and, if so, the level of premeditation involved:

       While mitigating factors that must be considered by the court would seem to include:

       (a) the age of the offender:

       (b) whether and when the offender pleaded guilty:

       (c) the conduct of the victim:

       (d) that there was a limited involvement in the offence on the offender’s part:

       (f) any remorse shown by the offender…

       (fa) that the offender has taken steps during the proceedings (other than steps to comply with procedural requirements) to shorten the proceedings or reduce their cost:

       (g) any evidence of the offender’s previous good character:

       https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0009/latest/DLM135545.html

       The original Stuff piece as much as says the admitted hostile criminal would have got away scot free if there hadn't been people watching the case and disposed to ask inconvenient questions. And that might still happen, though at least with some public record of his actions:

       Pattinson’s defence lawyer, Doug Taffs, said Pattinson accepted the charge and had written a letter to the court.

       He said police had initially said they would consider diversion but that had been rescinded “at a national level due to the public interest involved”…

       Taffs told the court Pattinson wanted to apply for a discharge without conviction.

       Judge Jane Farish said she wanted Pattinson to have a restorative justice conference with Duckor-Jones…

       Duckor-Jones said, after court, he was keen to be involved in the restorative justice process.

       https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/129122700/man-admits-antisemitic-and-homophobic-attack-on-west-coasts-pink-church

       Ghahraman has some choice words on the topic of our lacking specific hate crime legislation in today's Daalder piece on Newsroom:

       For more than a year after the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the March 15 terror attacks first recommended hate crime laws be updated, officials provided no advice to ministers on the project…

       The January 2022 briefing shows Ministry of Justice officials have previously considered and rejected changes to hate crime laws.

       "When the issue of hate-motivated offending has been raised in the past, Ministry of Justice officials have felt that our current system – dealing with hate motivation as part of sentencing – was a better approach than specific offences. However, following the [Royal Commission] recommendation the Ministry of Justice is revisiting the issue," officials wrote…

       "I think what the officials said [in the briefing] is actively misleading, because there isn't a current approach to hate crimes in our justice system. They don't exist," Ghahraman said.

       "You can record within the sentencing notes to the judge that, as an aggravating factor of committing an ordinary crime, there was presence of hate. But there is no present system, so that's actively misleading the previous minister.

       https://www.newsroom.co.nz/unexplained-year-long-delay-on-hate-crime-reform?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1656559440-1
7. Anker 7

   30 June 2022 at 11:26 am

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/06/30/guest-blog-ian-powell-train-wrecks-and-election-outcomes/

   Ian Powell telling it how it is about our health system and how restructuring will do sfa to change this crisis. Try not to get sick people.
   • gsays 7.1

     30 June 2022 at 7:07 pm

     Thanks for the link Anker, if what is said is true, it is very disappointing but somehow, not surprising.

     We are getting a neo-liberal solution to problems caused by that way of thinking.
8. Jimmy 8

   30 June 2022 at 11:49 am

   Poor old Grant Robertson now has Covid. Lets hope he doesn't get it too bad else Kelvin Davis will be acting PM.

   Acting Prime Minister Grant Robertson comes down with Covid-19 | Stuff.co.nz
   • Puckish Rogue 8.1

     30 June 2022 at 12:03 pm

     Oh dear lord no!

     Get well quickly Grant, your country needs you!
     • Robert Guyton 8.1.1

       30 June 2022 at 4:26 pm

       "Get well quickly Grant, your country needs you!"

       A never-to-be-forgotten quote, Pucky!
   • Red Blooded One 8.2

     30 June 2022 at 12:45 pm

     I'm sure he would be grateful for your genuine support and encouragement. Thank you on his behalf. 👋
   • Sanctuary 8.3

     30 June 2022 at 12:56 pm

     PM is overseas, deputy PM has the spicey cough – time for Laura Roslin!
9. Puckish Rogue 9

   30 June 2022 at 12:00 pm

   I just that no one on here finds out Luxon squeezes the toothpaste from the middle of the tube

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • Puckish Rogue 9.1

     30 June 2022 at 2:50 pm

     Will do.

     I've also heard rumours he once failed to indicate while he was merging…
     • Incognito 9.1.1

       30 June 2022 at 2:57 pm

       Nah, that’s BS, Luxon is always in the Right lane.
       • gsays 9.1.1.1

         30 June 2022 at 7:08 pm

         Excellent!
     • Red Blooded One 9.1.2

       30 June 2022 at 3:50 pm

       Nah, that's the chauffeur's job, as he drives from one side of the street to the other.
     • Robert Guyton 9.1.3

       30 June 2022 at 4:29 pm

       Pucky! Incognito and RBO took you to task, elegantly.

       You made it too easy.

       Thanks though (thumbs-up emoji).
10. Sanctuary 10

    30 June 2022 at 12:54 pm

    A note for anyone still interested in the Ukraine war on Russia's latest casual atrocity. Never ascribe to something planned evil when casual evil is just as likely – doubly so with the Russians who governments culturally seem to specialise in dumb and casual cruelty.

    The Kh-22 (AS-4 "Kitchen") anti-ship missile used in the outrageous missile strike on the Kremenchuk mall attack is a huge six tonne weapon that was designed sixty years ago as a nuclear armed weapon to attack US Carrier groups in the North Atlantic. It's guidance is a simple gyroscope-stabilised autopilot in conjunction with a radio altimeter. It is hopelessly inaccurate. It has a CEP (Circular Area Probability, i.e. the circle in which it is likely to land) for an unmodified Kh-22 of 5000m(!) Now, if a CEP is 5000m that means 50% of your shots will land within 5000m of the target (more or less grouped around the centre point) but also that 50% of your shots will end up anywhere up to 15000 metres away. Accurate enough if you are firing a half dozen nuclear armed ones at a US carrier battlegroup I suppose, near enough is good enough in that case. Not much use for precision strikes though.

    Now the Kremenchuk mall is within 500-1000m of any number of valid targets – a bridge over the Dnipro river, the railway station, or an industrial facility that may be engaged in refurbishing armoured vehicles. So my guess is the Russians were aiming at one of these, but using a missile that is akin to aiming at the Auckland harbour bridge with something that would count itself lucky if it ended up hitting the Auckland zoo.

    The recklessness of using these weapons for what is effectively a form of area bombing on heavily built up civilian areas when no existential threat exists to Russia, they possess the ability to end the war at any moment and more accurate weapons are now in existence is astounding and definitely criminal. But also, it shows they are running out of precision guided weapons (sanctions are working) and they are pulling any old shit out of storage and slinging it at the Ukraine out of pure spite.
    • Macro 10.1

      30 June 2022 at 1:24 pm

      Yep. Pretty much sums up this latest atrocity. Attempts to justify it, because "storing weapons" – easily proven to be BS.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/29/evidence-contradicts-russian-claims-about-kremenchuk-mall-attack
    • Bearded Git 10.2

      30 June 2022 at 3:41 pm

      That sounds entirely feasible Sanc. A horrendous mistake-more collateral damage.

      The blanket and unquestioning reporting by the anti-Russian pro-western media irritates me when it says that the Russians deliberately targeted a shopping mall with a 1000 people in it*. The western media loses respect by buying wholesale into what is effectively propaganda. When the Russians come out with propaganda we scorn them.

      *There seem to be around 50 deaths not hundreds
      • Anne 10.2.1

        30 June 2022 at 4:14 pm

        "A horrendous mistake-more collateral damage."

        Not surprising. Seemed to be an odd target from the start. How to ensure the rest of the planet is dead against you.
11. newsense 11

    30 June 2022 at 1:27 pm

    Gee there’s some confusion out there: hating on the noveau riche and their habits is apparently ‘woke’.

    We hate capitalists and free enterprise say farmers and the Herald.

    Sorry it’s a link to stuff the next day.

    What a load of crap- noveau riche are annoying everywhere and sometimes brilliant. But to try and somehow blame this farm on the government because it was covered on a public channel shows that there are a lot of people in the rural sector who need to retire and log off.

    We can sympathize that rich people buying into where you’re struggling is crap. Gentrification it is called and it is happening all over cities everywhere.

    Saying PC or woke is just a sign of people who can’t articulate their real grievance or have a chip on their shoulder about some whole damn other thing.

    Get some real rural leaders out front and send Rob’s mob back to the 70s. Opportunity Labour imo.
12. Puckish Rogue 12

    30 June 2022 at 2:28 pm

    https://nypost.com/2022/06/27/trans-woman-beats-13-year-old-in-womens-skateboarding-contest/

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/grid.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=1918

    I feel bad for the kids that lost out but on a bigger picture scale this is good because its situations like this that will wake people up to what is actually happening in todays world

    I also don't think that its a coincidence that Lia Thomas said this:

    https://apnews.com/article/winter-olympics-sports-college-swimming-united-states-olympic-team-14e7fd8d820a331d7aeb72b34cdc83e6

    “It’s been a goal of mine to swim at Olympic trials for a very long time, and I would love to see that through.”

    then this happens:

    https://apnews.com/article/transgender-swimmers-new-rules-fina-world-governing-body-c17e99d3121fa964336458b57ae266f7

    However for those interested I've managed to find a video of the competition:
13. Jimmy 13

    30 June 2022 at 4:51 pm

    Andrew Little is going to make himself even more unpopular with the public. He'll never win an electorate seat. Seems like all the doctors and nurses that have spoken out are wrong and all is fine at the hospitals because Andrew has said so. Funny how so many health experts working at the coal face can be wrong.

    'An absolute lie': Healthcare workers savage Health Minister's claim hospital demand is 'dissipating' (msn.com)
14. Chris 14

    30 June 2022 at 5:18 pm

    Same as Lees-Galloway saying there's nothing wrong with the ACC system. Difference is that ACC claimants aren't listened to as much as medical practitioners whose job it is to sort us out when we're ill. Still, surprising Little has taken that view, whereas we expect that sort of shit to come out of Lees-Galloway's mouth.
15. Ross 15

    30 June 2022 at 6:02 pm

    Labour's internal polling must be appalling. 🙂

    Inflation / cost of living is the most important issue
    facing New Zealanders today. After a significant
    increase in February (53% vs 31% in Oct ‘21), the
    latest Issues Monitor shows 56% of New Zealanders
    now rate inflation as a top-3 issue.

    Concerns around inflation mean housing is now
    relatively less important as an issue, with only 37% of
    New Zealanders placing it in their top 3, a
    significant decline to its lowest level since Sep ‘20
    (37%). However, it remains the second-highest
    issue for New Zealanders.

    Crime / law (26%) was the other most significant
    shift, jumping up to #5 in May ‘22. This was an
    increase from 19% in Feb ’22, and the highest level
    of concern since tracking began in Feb ‘18.

    Healthcare / hospitals (#3 at 29%) and petrol prices / fuel (#4 at 28%) are the other top-5 issues facing New Zealanders.

    This survey included women! I don’t know who let them out of the kitchen but there you go lol

    Good to see you focusing on the big issues, Micky. Keep up the good work.

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-nz/17th-ipsos-nz-issues-monitor-june-2022

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • Incognito 15.1

      30 June 2022 at 6:17 pm

      Comments that argue the irrelevancy of a Post without addressing anything in/of the Post get a short sharp shrift to OM.
16. logie97 16

    30 June 2022 at 6:50 pm

    Pandemic

    Seymour continues to assert that we should be at level Green.

    Last time I looked (though I stand to be corrected) I could not find any evidence of his qualifications as an expert in Pandemics and how they should be managed. He has seemed to be driven by which way the wind is blowing (in Remuera) when commenting.

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