Open mike 30/11/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, November 30th, 2019 - 65 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

65 comments on “Open mike 30/11/2019 ”

  1. Agora 1

    [Why are you using this handle and e-mail address when we had agreed that you would stick to one and one only?]

    [Edit: comment ‘restored’ on the understanding that this commenter will stop playing sockpoppets]

    Do local iwi still support the Shelly Bay development

    • Agora 1.1

      [Why are you using this handle and e-mail address when we had agreed that you would stick to one and one only?]

      [Edit: comment ‘restored’ on the understanding that this commenter will stop playing sockpoppets]

      Memory loss, plus I like the notion of a marketplace of ideas. Also, it’s more concise and easier to tap on tablet.

      • Incognito 1.1.1

        I have copies of your comments, which I can ‘restore’, but you’re wasting my time and I’m more inclined to give you a lengthy ban.

  2. Agora 2

    Memory loss, plus I like the notion of a marketplace of ideas. Can you restore, my comment? I think it is a valid issue and of interest to this blog.

    [This morning I deleted three comments of yours. They were fine as they were but over the years, and also recently, you have been using many tens (!!) of user handles and associated e-mail addresses. This lack of transparency, without any reason at all other than ‘memory loss’ is a behavioural problem that you must deal with if you want to continue commenting on this site. You have received many warnings about this and have had this explained to you but you are not changing your ways!? So, here is the deal: I will ‘restore’ your three comments and you stick with one handle and e-mail only. I suggest you use Paaparakauta and the corresponding e-mail address. If you continue to play sockpoppets, I will start handing out bans and eventually (??) ban you permanently. If you consider this site a “market place of ideas” and that your comments have and add value because they are “a valid issue and of interest to this blog” then you will have no problem with the minor adjustment to your behaviour for the sake of transparency, honesty, and integrity. The choice is yours – Incognito]

    • Incognito 2.1

      See my Moderation note @ 8:37 AM.

    • McFlock 2.2

      If you need to keep changing your storefront in the marketplace of ideas, it suggests that maybe the problem lies with what you're selling rather than your branding.

  3. The Chairman 3

    A point to ponder on the cannabis debate.

    A number of people support medicinal but are opposed to voting for wider recreational use.

    What people taking that stance need to consider is the recent law change allowing for medicinal use falls far short.

    It's only for the terminally ill and those in palliative care.

    Therefore, many that require it medicinally find they are not eligible. Hence, opening it up to recreational use will cover the shortfall in the current medicinal use law. Allowing all those (consenting adults) that require it medicinally to have legal access.

    • SPC 3.1

      Yup, and the money from legal sale of marijuana can help fund drug addiction treatment for tobacco-alcohol-meth/medicinal cannabis treatment costs.

      It would also finance the end of legal sale of tobacco by retail – addicts getting a ration supply from a chemist at say $20 a first packet then $30 a packet (those going over the amount having to get addiction treatment).

      Exploiting tobacco addicts for tax revenue is a little corrupt.

    • A 3.2

      I don't understand the objections..surely they are misinformed?

      My understanding is that cannabis was not found to be a gateway drug. Well, ok…apart from tobacco which nobody can afford to take up, and that's only because it is commonly cut with it (study done overseas where tobacco is cheaper).

      • Psycho Milt 3.2.1

        I don't understand the objections..surely they are misinformed?

        Misinformed and illogical. Unfortunately, for any given issue, a sizable proportion of the population will be misinformed and illogical and this is no different.

    • adam 3.3

      The medical cannabis law is a sad joke from a sad joke of a government.

      Who are so far right economically it's hard to tell the difference between them and national on economic issues.

    • Incognito 3.4

      You seem to think it is panacea for “many that require it medicinally” yet the jury is still out on that: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/117559141/we-dont-know-what-we-dont-know-on-medicinal-cannabis

  4. SPC 4

    A pro-active government would be ordering small homes from a factory in Auckland and transporting them around Northland – and then (state house) building a factory near Whangarei to manufacture locally.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/northland-housing-woes-people-living-in-trees-car-ports-old-cars

  5. Buster12 5

    Good work to the British police. R.I.P to the victims.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12289730

  6. The Chairman 8

    Why, when raising benefits can stimulate the economy (helping to create jobs and boost business returns) and can assist the Government with its goals of addressing poverty, family violence, suicide etc… is the Government dragging its feet?

  7. The Chairman 9

    Pull your head in, weka.

    This is not trolling. I'm expressing a genuine concern. Thus, you are silencing it.

    Which will be rid of me but not the concern (which others also share).

    Shame you didn't have a decent solution other than to silence me. It looks bad on you, the site and the Greens. But that's clearly your call.

    Enjoy your echo chamber.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • A 10.1

      Good Lord! What the hell is wrong with people?

      The US will soon face a major Dr shortage. The exodus began the same time Obama care did, adding huge amounts of red tape.

      • Sabine 10.1.1

        nothing to do with Obama or any perceived doctor shortage, but simply republicans declaring that womens health is only important so as long as they birth the fetus.

        but nice try at deflection. Btw, the resident in the shitty house is not called Obama nor Hillary.

  8. The Chairman 11

    I’m not going to wait until the conversation deteriorates here today, so please stay out of commenting under this post

    This is open mike yet my last post failed to show. What's up with that? I might have to start writing (elsewhere where you have no control) about your behavior of silencing posts on this site. Don't fuck with me.

    [I put you in premod so I could see if you had seen my mod note. But also useful to see what your response to moderation was. Now you are in the blacklist while I have a think about a ban and talk to the other mods – weka]

    [You have been a commenter on TS for a very long time. Quite early on, your comments were already perceived by some as those of a (concern) troll or RW. Quite early on, you also started to attract the attention of Moderators. For example: https://thestandard.org.nz/jeremy-corbyn-wins/#comment-1070168

    In short, over a long period of time, you have created a perception of being a concern troll and people here react to this perception accordingly. This riles you because you claim to be “expressing a genuine concern”. Regardless, your comments have a negative effect on discourse on TS.

    You have been warned and asked numerous times to change your behaviour to counter this perception yet your steadfast refusal and petulance have only helped to reinforce the perception.

    In the end, TS is bigger and more important than any one person; as even previous Authors/Moderators have found out to their detriment.

    Contrary to some people’s beliefs, we generally consider longer bans carefully. Naturally, we are sensitive to accusations of shutting down concerns and opinions that we apparently do not agree with in order to create an “echo chamber”. We are aware that all of us are biased, one way or another, and thus we, as moderators, tread carefully around uncomfortable or dissenting comments. As you know, I have spent much time moderating you and I have agonised over how to handle you so that you can keep participating here on TS without derailing threads/posts because of your perceived reputation as a concern troll. I have made it clear that ultimately it is your responsibility to change your behaviour here, which you have yet to acknowledge let alone accept. Again, you have cultivated a long pattern of behaviour of ignoring moderation notes, misunderstanding them, and/or arguing against them. For example: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16092015/#comment-1072607 In short, you are wasting our time.

    With your recent threats [plural] against Authors/Moderators and attempted (emotional) blackmail, you clearly overstepped the boundary of acceptable behaviour. Perhaps it was petulance or anger but it was unacceptable regardless.

    For this, in particular, you do receive a moderately long ban. If/when you come back here on TS the bans will escalate if you’ll get moderated for anything that you have been warned about. The next time you make threats you will be banned permanently without warning. This instructional ban will enable you to come back here in election year and participate in debate, if you wish. The choice is yours.

    Banned for four months until 1 April 2020 – Incognito]

  9. joe90 12

    Straight out of the Trump/Bolsonaro playbook.

    The Conservative party is threatening to review Channel 4’s public service broadcasting obligations after the network replaced Boris Johnson with an ice sculpture at Thursday night’s election debate.

    In a dramatic escalation of the war of words between the Tories and Channel 4 that will likely provoke outcry, a Conservative source told BuzzFeed News that if they win the coming election they will reassess the channel’s public service broadcasting licence.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-is-threatening-to-review-channel-4s

  10. joe90 13

    Lying liar who's been sacked twice for lying, lies.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1200125073421721601

  11. alwyn 14

    Rapper Tom Scott is obviously struggling to get some publicity for an album.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12289507

    To descend into faking screenshots of supposed communications from the PM is going to far. Even though I don't think Ardern is even remotely competent at her job I cannot believe that she would be so crass and morally corrupt that she would converse with this arsehole.

    He is of course the creep who wanted to kill John Key and rape his daughter. He seemed to regard that as perfectly acceptable behaviour and Ardern would surely have nothing to do with him.

    Has she, or her office as she will obviously be busy at her party conference, called this prick on his bull and demanded that he withdraw these scurrilous allegations?

    If not yet, when is she going to do so? To ignore them will merely lead to people thinking that there must be some truth in what he says. Surely his tales cannot be true.

    • …I cannot believe that she would be so crass and morally corrupt that she would converse with this arsehole.

      Meh. If he breaks his girlfriend's back kicking her down the stairs and then Ardern is happy to be on the radio with him answering questions about which celebs she'd like to fuck, you'll have a point. Until then, this is pretty small beer.

      • McFlock 14.1.1

        After a google to find out what Alwyn's bullshit was today, I was having difficulty finding words to describe their crass hypocrisy without getting into an hours-long digression.

        You nailed it.

        • alwyn 14.1.1.1

          You've never had any problem finding words before flocky.

          Your problem is that the words you do find never make any sense.

          • McFlock 14.1.1.1.1

            Not to you, they don’t. Especially words like "integrity", "honesty", "empathy", and so on.

  12. Jenny How to get there 15

    ….Hydes, who will lead the protest in Ashburton along the main street at 10am, prior to the town's Santa parade.

    "Essentially we're targeting our protest in Ashburton and Christchurch. That's 40,000 people, plus their supporters. We think there are probably 150,000 people that are our audience."

    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/gun-owners-protest-buyback-events/ar-BBXxdBi?ocid=spartanntp

    WTF!? This grim gun filth want to hold their pro gun rally prior to a fun family friendly Santa Parade?!?!

    Don't they know that this is just the sort of event favoured by crazed mass shooters?

    And why are they "targeting" Ashburton and Christchurch

    Why do they think their sick message will find fertile ground in these two centres?

    Is this the reason?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/4987990/ChCh-is-home-of-white-supremacists

    I can't wait till this gun happy scum announce the date of their protest in Auckland.

    Where they won't find their message so well received.

    • Peter chch 15.1

      Yes Jenny, sick in so many ways. I just hope this government sticks hard with its policies on gun control and that prosecutions with real penalties are levied where appropriate.

      These people make me so angry. Scum of the earth.

    • Incognito 15.2

      You seem to have a problem with distinction. Licenced firearm owners are not white supremacists are not crazed mass shooters. You are too ‘generous’ with your abusive labels, which you scatter around in a haze of pig-headed ignorance and hatred without distinction. I’m not talking about this one comment only, BTW.

      • Jenny How to get there 15.2.1

        For displaying such incredibly poor judgment every idiot gun owner who takes part in this completely inappropriate pro gun parade prior to the Santa Parade needs to have their firearms licence revoked they are obviously not fit to have one.

        BTW This cowardly scum would never dare try such a stupid stunt in Auckland

        • Incognito 15.2.1.1

          Do you realise that you are referring to ordinary law-abiding citizens with families?

          People like you worry me. Your crude language and simplistic opinions portray a dogmatic and closed mind of an extremely judgemental person. Dogmatic closed minds are dangerous, no matter on which ‘side’ they claim to be.

          • Jenny How to get there 15.2.1.1.1

            You call me dogmatic

            Yet it is not me who is rallying before a Santa Parade for the right to have assault rifles.

            And you think that this is appropriate?

            May I suggest an idea for their float?

            A trailer loaded with corpses of all the children shot in school shootings.

            Dogmatism like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

            Incognito, if you can give me one reasonable argument why anyone needs a semi-automatic assault weapon, (apart from Right Wing paranoia), then you may (barely), escape the label of 'dogmatic' yourself.

            • Incognito 15.2.1.1.1.1

              I love your idea for a float. Have you suggested it to the organisers? If it is good enough to float here on TS, it is good enough to go fully public with it, don’t you think?

              Here is you first problem: you seem to assume that I’m on the side of the people attending that protest rally. FYI, the concept of owning or using a gun is an alien concept to me [I hope you don’t miss the hint]. For that reason, I struggle to understand the emotional attachment that some people seem to have to their gun(s) and/or the lifestyle that’s associated with it. They use terms like “heartbreaking”. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/117841613/destruction-of-nowillegal-guns-desecration-of-nz-history-shooting-champion-says

              Your second problem is that your bias clouds your judgement and you don’t seem to acknowledge that. You are so far down in the rabbit hole of your own making with corresponding abusive stereotyping that you even conjure up mental images of a “trailer loaded with corpses of all the [??] children shot in school shootings”. What children are you talking about?

    • Ad 15.3

      There's nothing wrong with waiting until the Royal Commissions' recommendations come out before enacting further gun-restrictive legislation.

      If only Labour had thought to put a float up there as well.

      Smart thinking by the protesters.

    • McFlock 15.4

      You cut out the best bit:

      "Policy advisors and legislators are to blame for failing to make sure the firearms he used were not as heavily restricted as other military-style semi-automatic firearms were," said Hydes, who will lead the protest in Ashburton along the main street at 10am, prior to the town's Santa parade.

      Besides the mangling of the English language, policy advisors and legislators are now clearly attempting to correct that deficiency in restriction.

      Although I do think the Mongrel Mob have a point. I just have no better idea about how to close this hole more fairly while still closing it quickly.

  13. adam 16

    You left Psycho Milt – I'd of thought that was the very definition of oxymoron.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • McFlock 16.1

      When in doubt, there's always Adam to claim his left is bigger than everyone else's.

      I just hope you more-left-than-lefties keep it aligned down the middle so the enormous weight doesn't tip the boat over while the opposition's boat cruises to victory.

      A nact government is a high price to pay for blowing on your own leftism.

      • adam 16.1.1

        Do giggle once in a while McFlock – you angry little man.

        Did you miss how Psycho Milt was attacking a self identifying lefty by saying he was more left himself.

        Hence the oxymoron jibe – you know humour – Oh dear oh dear oh dear – well I'll leave you to your angry little man world.

        But you did add more humour by accusing me of the thing Psycho Milt had already done. Thanks for that.

        • Psycho Milt 16.1.1.1

          …Psycho Milt was attacking a self identifying lefty by saying he was more left himself.

          Beats me how you could read that into my comment, but written communication is notorious for misunderstandings.

    • weka 16.2

      There's a line, which is something like if you are going poke at someone you can do it within a general point about politics so long as it's within the bounds of the culture of TS, but if you just poke at someone for the sake of making them feel shit or putting them down, then it's a problem (eg it starts flame wars).

      The thing being protected there is the robust debate ethic. If flame wars happen, then robust debate diminishes.

      Hence PM's comment sailed under the moderator radar, but yours stood out like a sore thumb.

  14. Fireblade 18

    Had a good laugh watching the TV news. The poor redneck hicks crying about their guns and saying they feel victimised. What a brunch of delicate wee petals they are. Pathetic.

    • aj 18.1

      I have to agree. They can still own guns. Just not the type produced for mass killing of humans beings.

    • Jenny How to get there 18.2

      They are indeed pathetic. But more than this they are dangerous.

      Note here the 'othering' language of Incognito.

      Incognito

      30 November 2019 at 10:38 pm

      Do you realise that you are referring to ordinary law-abiding citizens with families?

      As if those who oppose his views don't have families, (or at least families like his.) or by definition are not law abiding.

      There are very few human beings who don't have family of some sort.

      The othering language of Incognito is dangerous because it attempts to dehumanise those who don't agree with his pro-gun views.

      This is the sort of language that justifies the attacks on the victims of his 'othering.'

      • Sacha 18.2.1

        Othering? You're grasping at straws. I'd say Incognito had your measure in yesterday's thread you are dredging up:

        https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30-11-2019/#comment-1669957

        You seem to have a problem with distinction. Licenced firearm owners are not white supremacists are not crazed mass shooters. You are too ‘generous’ with your abusive labels, which you scatter around in a haze of pig-headed ignorance and hatred without distinction. I’m not talking about this one comment only, BTW.

        We will never organise or lead change together without the most basic logic or good faith.

      • Incognito 18.2.2

        That’s an interesting word, “othering”, but do you even know what it means? It seems you are redefining it in your head so that it sounds right to you in some kind of ‘common sense’ way. You have a bad habit of using your own personal definitions of interesting words such as “fascist”. It usually means you are so far off the mark that you don’t even realise you have missed by a mile. It makes debating with you an exercise in futility.

        As if those who oppose his views don't have families, (or at least families like his.) or by definition are not law abiding.

        There are very few human beings who don't have family of some sort.

        You know that when a sentence starts with “As if”, it is bound to be a strawman. I’m blown away by your second sentence. You got me there and I concede that are correct.

        In your closed-minded opinion, I “attempt[s] to dehumanise those who don't agree with his pro-gun views”. Firstly, I have no pro-gun views nor did I provide any. You seem to be projecting, as usual. Secondly, I did not use dehumanising language unlike your abusive labels such as “grim gun filth”, “crazed mass shooters”, “gun happy scum”, “idiot gun owner”, and “cowardly scum”. Projecting much?

        This is the sort of language that justifies the attacks on the victims of his 'othering.'

        I have to say, this is your pièce de résistance and the irony is completely lost on you. It is comments like this that inevitably lead to a ban but you seem to be wilfully blind when somebody holds up a mirror to you. Keep up the ‘good work’.

  15. joe90 19

    Imperialism bad, Russian/Iranian imperialism not so bad, 'mkay.

    //

    https://twitter.com/ZevShalev/status/1200297102577950720

    • Jenny How to get there 19.1

      joe90

      30 November 2019 at 7:52 pm

      Imperialism bad, Russian/Iranian imperialism not so bad, 'mkay.

      What our resident quislings who root for Assad fascism and Russian intervention, in their one eyed depiction of the US as the only danger to world peace forget, is that Nazi Germany was once also the Imperialist underdog fighting for their place in the global world order.

  16. Fireblade 20

    Did she have too many Friday night drinks or is she just another useless National MP with an attitude problem.

    National MP Joanne Hayes deleted a nasty unprovoked late night tweet she made on a post celebrating the graduation of Jacinda Ardern's former campaign manager.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12289780

    • Stuart Munro. 20.1

      It looks a lot like the kind of nasty tweet Jamie Lee Ross got from former lovers. Were I a muck-raking journalist I'd be looking for red-headed young Gnats who've had some association with Joanne Hayes.

  17. A 22

    "Silly buggers" in Oz…disappearing submissions continue in the Cash Ban bill

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBap0UmGmeE

  18. Cinny 23

    Have NZ media said anything about the China Cables?

    A new leak of highly classified Chinese government documents has uncovered the operations manual for running the mass detention camps in Xinjiang and exposed the mechanics of the region’s Orwellian system of mass surveillance and “predictive policing.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWZZ151RyYM&feature=emb_logo

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