Open mike 30/08/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, August 30th, 2013 - 150 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

150 comments on “Open mike 30/08/2013”

  1. Boadicea 1

    Will we have a Labour Party in which all sectors have real influence?

    Or will we have a Labour Party whose Caucus sector treats the membership as a penance or a pool of cheap Labour?

    That was the nub of what was disputed at the 2012 Conference in Ellerslie.

    Cunliffe got punished by Shearer and Robertson for showing respect for the membership.

    • Saarbo 1.1

      Cunliffe clearly has more support from members, so if he is successful in becoming leader, there will be a much stronger “Labour Machine” on the ground in 2014. More money and people on the ground. It will certainly make Tim Barnett”s job a little easier. Just a thought.

      “Cunliffe got punished by Shearer and Robertson for showing respect for the membership.”

      That is the way I see it!

      • Hami Shearlie 1.1.1

        Me too, Saarbo!! Let’s hope that the Caucus and Unions take note of the members wishes this time!!

        • Saarbo 1.1.1.1

          Cunliffe = a strong Labour Party!

          • Anne 1.1.1.1.1

            If Cunliffe wins, the Party’s coffers will swell in size and Labour will again be in a position to run a first class campaign and win. If Cunliffe loses…

            • Olwyn 1.1.1.1.1.1

              It would be utterly jaw-dropping if, one year out from an election, the caucus vote ran counter to both the membership vote and the more general preferences shown in polls etc, and ultimately won the day. I cannot think how they would even begin to explain themselves this time around. It would effectively be an admission that their internal status quo carried more weight with them than actually winning an election.

            • Tigger 1.1.1.1.1.2

              If Cunliffe loses I’m resigning. It will mean the caucus still isn’t listening and my patience for their crap will be over.

              • Alanz

                No, don’t do that.
                I have a better idea and hopefully there will be no need to reveal the plan.

              • Tim

                Go with your instincts Tigger. If Cunliffe loses, stick with the resignation. Being a martyr is all very noble, but pushing shit uphill eventually just gets a bit messy and you eventually just run out of life whilst you watch the troughers continue to profess their dedication to the cause as they continue with their promises.

                • Luka

                  I will also resign my membership, I cannot handle another term of this god-forsaken government. If ABC get their way, we will be punished because their own self-interest has gotten in the way of getting into office. I will join another social democratic party, one that hopefully has a hero we can all believe in – as a bck-up of course!

      • geo 1.1.2

        The others in that mix are Hipkins,Fenton,Geoff,King,Mallard ect.
        Fenton and Hipkins should stand down at the next election.

        • Boadicea 1.1.2.1

          Aaah Ms Fenton.

          She is welcome back to the fold.
          She can plead that she was led astray by some naughty boys in Wellington, that she has learned a hard lesson and that she now remenbers her Union roots.

    • Luka 1.2

      I totally agree. What gets my knickers in not (lol) is Robinson’s two faced face denying he was disloyal to Shearer. The way I see it, doing nothing and waiting for your boss to hang himself out to dry is being disloyal. He was totally un-supportive of Shearer, and never backed him when he was in strife. Being part of the executive, you are a team, and you go down with your boss. I was ashamed when he was not at Shearer’s press conference. The way I see it, he cannot be trusted,and the fact he is homosexual is inconsequential. He has no experience and has not achieved a single proud moment since he has been an MP. It is all very well being a performer in parliament, from what I can see he is nothing but hot air and empty promises. ABC’s new man, if elected, will be another failed experiment Cunliffe is our only shot at 2014!

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1

        Cunliffe can take the game to Key straight away and beat him. And Auckland is unlikely to turn out for Robertson in the massive numbers that Labour needs next year.

  2. North 2

    Takere…….this is for you bro’. Wonder why the workers in the smoko-room at AFFCO in Moerewa wouldn’t say “Peter Talley……..ten grand…….Dalmatian ancestry…….yeah, right !”

    From the Herald article link below “………..in the past – in both the 2008 and 2011 elections Mr Jones declared just under $30,000 in donations, including $10,000 from Sealord in 2011 and $10,000 from Peter Talley in 2008, which Mr Jones said was due to their common Dalmatian ancestry.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11116552

    • Saarbo 2.1

      So Jones gets 10k from Talley’s and $10k from Sealord. Tries to pass off the $10k from Talley’s as money because of their common “dalmatian ancestry”, clearly he is feeling guilty about this money, otherwise why such a ridiculous explanation.

      I would be interested to know how supportive Jones was to Affco/Talley’s workers lockout in March/April 2012???

      • Boadicea 2.1.1

        The last time I saw Jones in a public place he was enjoying a meal with David Henderson, the colourful property developer. Our common folk Jones boy like the company of “rich” men.

        • Saarbo 2.1.1.1

          Yes, makes you wonder what makes these people want to be part of the labour Party. Use to see Mallard in the Wellington Rugby Corporate box quite often, sucking up to the sad rich leaches that love to be seen in that environment, wanker. Out of all of the Corporate Boxes, the “wank factor” was pretty high in Wellington. The role I had at the time required me to travel around to the various Corporate Boxes, I handled it be burying myself in the free piss on offer and avoiding talking to the biggest ‘try hards’ that you will ever meet, (the alcohol worked like an anesthetic).

          My partner refused to attend any corporate boxes after attending the Wellington CB once, she couldn’t stand them. It take a certain type of dick-head to want to attend rugby corporate boxes.

          • Comrade Coba 2.1.1.1.1

            Saarbo my cobber after yesterday’s caucus meeting http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11116377
            the ABC are rattled Mallard, Goff & King have lost their influence. Some of those undecided are actually scuttling from the old rear guards sinking ship. The numbers aren’t even there within caucus for their endorsed man GR. Bloody good job the focus is on the election as it should be. They better not make a fuss either or lookout!

          • Murray Olsen 2.1.1.1.2

            When the Warriors started up, the inhabitants of the corporate boxes were a total joke. I had a season ticket from the ARL, with a seat in front of one of the boxes. They needed ex players there to explain to them what was happening on the field. Of course Roger Douglas and the other unmentionables were involved, mainly to help Murdoch take over. Mixing businessmen with sport never does any good for the sport, and I couldn’t care less what it does for the businessmen.

            • Saarbo 2.1.1.1.2.1

              Spot on Murray. People in Corporate Boxes at Super/AB games have nil to do with Club Rugby. Club rugby and professional rugby are two completely different worlds, and being involved in club rugby Im fairly happy with this.

            • millsy 2.1.1.1.2.2

              The clock can never be wound back, but professionalism has more or less ruined sport.

      • Comrade Coba 2.1.2

        Too many MP’s have had a charmed run on Labour’s list. Jones and Ardern gives them a view from above. Tally’s an evil bunch. Dodgy Shane… A word in his ear ” you have a history of lapses of judgment every 2 years- do not repeat in 2014…repeat not in 2014, keep your snout clean.”

        • mickysavage 2.1.2.1

          Tallys are some of the most anti union employers in the country. If you want to have a read about some of their behaviour have a read of /talleys-corporate-scum/

          They are only interested in enlarging their power. I am amazed that a Labour Politician would accept a donation from them.

          • Comrade Coba 2.1.2.1.1

            Absolutely Micky. Jones is a liability as we all know. At least this leadership thing will force the lazy prick to do some heavy lifting to get the Maori vote as he has stated in his own words.

  3. the british print media..(with a couple of exceptions..)

    ..are all urging cameron not to attack syria..

    ..with memories being evoked/cited of the ‘clear-evidence’ intelligence-bullshit blair/bush used to justify the attack on iraq..(‘intelligence’ from the same source..mossad..in both cases..)

    ..it would seem their media have longer memories than our little pack of yapping media-dogs of war..eh..?

    ..you just have to push our medias’ attack-button..and the (unthinking) barking begins..

    ..the length/width/depth of their uselessness..is kinda awesome..

    ..phillip ure..

  4. Paul 4

    What are the exceptions?

  5. felix 5

    Did I hear that right? Did John Key just open the door to NZ joining a non-sanctioned military action?

    • andy (the other one) 5.1

      Yes.

      Shakes Head…

      • vto 5.1.1

        Well then let him go.

        See ya Key and thanks for nothing. What a fitting send off you have just given yourself – off to sacrifice yourself in someone else’s war. Or maybe you could send your kids along instead, that would be more your style (and that of your type)

        • fender 5.1.1.1

          “Well then let him go.”

          +1

          This tough guy Key is going to be busy….N Korea and Syria.

    • Jackal 5.2

      Looks like David Cameron doesn’t get his way, as the UK parliament has just voted down military intervention. In my opinion this is currently the right decision to make and one that John Key should take note of.

      What I find strange about his latest brain fart is that he had previously said a decision to intervene in Syria should be left to the United Nations. He later contradicted himself by saying military intervention with no UN mandate could be justified on moral grounds.

      I totally disagree with this playing of both sides of the coin. The UN is considering the moral grounds of the situation. They will make a decision once they’ve attained the required information. The warmongers should not preempt that decision by undertaking an unsanctioned attack on Syria.

      • bad12 5.2.1

        Good call from the British Parliament with some of Cameron’s own Tory’s voting down the idea of military intervention,(for the moment at least),

        There’s two things here, one, the Prez, Obama says that the US has ‘proof’ that the Assad regime used chemical weapons,

        The question is does the Prez think that His own population and the population of the world are all stupid???,

        If the US Prez has this ‘Proof’ He should use the organs of the media to show the world such proof,

        The second ‘thing’, it is the Saudi’s acting in concert with the US that have ‘Enflamed’ the Syrian civil war by arming and inserting ‘Arab militias’ into this conflict,

        The US Prez will have far more ‘moral right’ on His side when He ensures that ALL the foreign combatants are pulled out of Syria and military equipment flowing into to Syria is seriously constrained,

        Until such time as ‘The West’ undertakes such actions they will simply be seen as the Warmonger Baby Murderers that their actions would suggest…

        • Tigger 5.2.1.1

          Key should put it to a vote – that way if we do go we know who to blame when it turns to poop.

          • Alanz 5.2.1.1.1

            And when putting in the vote, Key should also use Simon Power’s wonderful line that where the US goes, NZ will go. ‘Tis wonderful.

    • yes ! And its a bit scary .election coming up which Key will have a job to get the numbers ,as he has no partners.So what better than the sound of drums and trumpets plus flying the flag. Thatcher did it in the Falklands . However like Thatcher their kids are not sent away to be killed are they?

    • yes ! And its a bit scary .election coming up which Key will have a job to get the numbers ,as he has no partners.So what better than the sound of drums and trumpets plus flying the flag. Thatcher did it in the Falklands . However like Thatcher their kids are not sent away to be killed are they?

  6. http://whoar.co.nz/2013/10-reasons-marijuana-is-better-for-you-than-alcohol-comment-but-beware-looseunfixed-bales-of-pot-they-could-kill-you/

    (excerpt..)

    “…and in that comprehensive report of causes of death globally..

    ..cannabis did not rate a mention…

    ..yet another year of nil/zero/nada deaths from a drug used so comprehensively worldwide..

    ..(ed:..tho’ there were unconfirmed rumours of a single death from cannabis..

    ..apparantly a bale of it fell on someones’ head..eh..?

    ..so the lesson there is..

    ..drive carefully when around loose bales of cannabis..eh..?..)..”

    phillip ure..

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1

      On a related note, Stuf has this article with the headline Cannabis Nightmare (in the print edition, online edition has been changed – check the URL) with the first paragraph reading:

      Hospital visiting hours are turning into a living nightmare for Una Harding.

      Her son, Kyle, along with numerous mental health patients at Waitakere Hospital, is hooked on synthetic cannabis. And the problem is getting worse.

      My bold.

      I suppose it’s obvious why they changed the headline in the online edition but it would have been much better if they hadn’t made such a BS headline in the first place.

      • phillip ure 6.1.1

        while i think the legal-high business is on a par with the alcohol-pushers..(in that neither want cannabis legalised..it’s called market-protection..)

        ..i am puzzled as to how alcohol has managed to factor/quarantine itself out of the/any health-debate around intoxicants commonly used in our society..

        ..as the/any negative outcomes from those legal-highs..are far outweighed by the number fucked over/killed by alcohol..

        (as noted the other day..a recent un report on causes of death globally shows that more die each year from alcohol..than are killed from violent acts/war..

        ..and we advertise/celebrate/endorse/condone this killer-drug..

        ..and we criminalise the safest intoxicant of all..

        ..the intoxicant that has never killed anyone..

        ..that one both the booze-pushers and the legal-high pushers want kept illegal..

        (..that ‘market-protection’ imperative kicking in again..)

        ..’cos if pot were normalised/de-blackmarketed the legal high industry would likely disappear..

        ..it has only been created as a mutant outcome of/from prohibition..

        (n.b..colorado..where pot is legalised/regulated/taxed..there is no legal-high problem..)

        ..and of course there are many out there..who would switch to pot from booze..if it were legal/they were able to legally grow a few plants..

        ..plus the provinces/tourism would see a green/gold rush..

        ..and because of the advances in research on the theraputic/medicinal uses of cannabis..

        ..feeding that market..in either raw or synthesised-product ..

        ..is a sunrise industry of some note..

        ..and a fonterra co-op model would seem to be the way to go..

        ..should/when sanity rule(s)..

        ..phillip ure..

      • felix 6.1.2

        check the URL

        Not doubting that they changed it, but the URL itself doesn’t mean much. On stuff.co.nz links you can make the last bit of the URL anything at all and the link will still work, like this one for example.

        Anything after the last “/” is a free-for-all.

  7. ak 7

    Last time they were certain that weapons of mass destruction were primed and ready to reach us in twenty minutes. And that if we invaded, those poor oppressed Iraqi soldiers would throw down their guns and welcome us with open arms. Millions slaughtered and displaced, the culprits never to be forgotten or forgiven.

    This time they’re almost certain, so up goes Slippery’s pink craven hand for us all.

    Hels kept us out of the last one, despite the rabid objections of wee Johnny and his mob.

    This time we’re already on the list; now a weaker, easier target for the survivors forever.

    Happy Toryday, grandkids: the hatred of million of decades. Thanks National.

  8. karol 8

    Cunliffe leading the NZ Herald, self-selecting, online commenters’ choice – by a digital mile.

    • Tracey 8.1

      Most of those wouldn’t be voting though karol?

    • Tracey 8.2

      Interesting body language in this photo

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9113123/Labour-hopefuls-promise-living-wage

      “MP Shane Jones warmed a South Auckland crowd with a promise of a Pacific Island language TV channel along the lines of Maori TV. ..”

      “Jones, meanwhile, went on the attack against “the privileged” and the powerful.

      “I’ll tell you one thing I won’t do, I will never squander the popular will of the people for the 30 bloody pieces of silver that John Key has done over that wretched casino deal. You have my bloody word on that.”

  9. Etruscan 9

    Anyone but Cunliffe (ABC). Robertson must be the next leader.

  10. Lanthanide 10

    Here’s an online ‘political leanings’ quiz I hadn’t seen before. I get the distinct impression it was written for an American audience, for example the question about whether we spend too much on military has quite different connotations in NZ than it does in the US.

    http://slackhalla.org/~demise/test/socialattitude.php

    Here’s my result:

    Political Values

    Radicalism 80.25
    Socialism 62.5
    Tenderness 43.75

    These scores indicate that you are a progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with a university professor. It appears that you are skeptical towards religion, and have a pragmatic attitude towards humanity in general.

    Your attitudes towards economics appear socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a political centrist.

    To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a centrist with several strong opinions.

    • karol 10.1

      Radicalism 91.25
      Socialism 93.75
      Tenderness 65.625

      PS: The questions on emotion were a problem as far as I could see. I gave contradictory arguments & wavered on the implications from one question to another.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 10.1.1

        86% radical, 0% socialist and 50% tender.

        • felix 10.1.1.1

          Fairly high radical score, and an almost impossible socialist score.

          Quite the extremist. I guess any claim you ever had of your views being in any way representative of ordinary kiwis is out the window.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 10.1.1.1.1

            When did I ever claim that?

            And my socialist score is the perfect one.

      • Jackal 10.1.2

        You’re the biggest radical so far karol 🙂

        • phillip ure 10.1.2.1

          and i’m more radical/socialist than you..jackal..

          ..nyah..!..nyah..!..nyah..!

          ..eh..?

          ..my radical/socialist gene is bigger than your radical/socialist gene..

          ..(some say that size doesn’t matter..but y’know..!..)

          ..tho’..strangely..our ‘tenderness-levels’ are in sync..68.75..

          ..aww!!..eh..?

          phillip ure..

    • Pete 10.2

      Radicalism 88.5
      Socialism 62.5
      Tenderness 75

      These scores indicate that you are a tender-minded progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with an animal rights activist. It appears that you are moderate towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

      Your attitudes towards economics appear socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a political centrist.

      To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a devoted egalitarian with many strong opinions.

      This concludes our analysis; we hope you found your results accurate, useful, and interesting.

      • phillip ure 10.2.1

        Radicalism 85.75

        Socialism 75

        Tenderness 68.75

        These scores indicate that you are a tender-minded progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with an animal rights activist.

        It appears that you are moderate towards religion- and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

        Your attitudes towards economics appear socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.

        To round out the picture you appear to be – political preference aside – an idealist with several strong opinions.

        phillip ure..

    • Anne 10.3

      Radicalism 83
      Socialism 68.75
      Tenderness 62.5

      These scores indicate that you are a tender-minded progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with an animal rights activist. It appears that you are moderate towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

      Your attitudes towards economics appear socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.

      To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a pragmatist with many strong opinions. 😎

    • Bill 10.4

      Guess it picked up my democratic leanings quite well. 96.75/93.75…and half way to being tough as old boots is probably about right 😉 – 50 for tenderness

      • Anne 10.4.1

        One gets the distinct impression we’re a bunch of opinionated bastards and bastardesses.

    • Jackal 10.5

      Radicalism 77.5
      Socialism 68.75
      Tenderness 68.75

      These scores indicate that you are a tender-minded moderate progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with an animal rights activist. It appears that you are moderate towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

      Your attitudes towards economics appear socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.

      To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a centrist with few strong opinions.

    • NZFemme 10.6

      Radicalism 91.25
      Socialism 87.5
      Tenderness 59.375

      These scores indicate that you are a progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with an animal rights activist. It appears that you are skeptical towards religion, and have a pragmatic attitude towards humanity in general.

      Your attitudes towards economics appear communist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.

      To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, an egalitarian with many strong opinions.

    • Saarbo 10.7

      Radicalism 94
      Socialism 81.25
      Tenderness 50

      My Radicalism is a bit high…shit. What would drive that I wonder.

      • Saarbo 10.7.1

        Radicalism 88.5
        Socialism 81.25
        Tenderness 50

        This is my partners score. A bit scarey, but perhaps hanging out together for 24 years means our thoughts are fairly similar.

    • Linz 10.8

      Radicalism 91.25
      Socialism 75
      Tenderness 62.5

      tender-minded progressive; an animal rights activist. moderate towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

      Your attitudes towards economics appear socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.

      But what does this question mean?
      25) People should have faith in what they believe.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.8.1

        A yes answer would indicate the belief that people shouldn’t question their beliefs.

    • Ad 10.9

      Radical 55
      Socialist 62.5
      Tender 81.25

      These scores indicate that you are a very tender-minded moderate; this is the political profile one might associate with a protective parent. It appears that you are accepting of religion, and have a generally optimistic attitude towards humanity in general.

      Your attitudes towards economics appear socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as a political centrist.

      So far I’m the wussiest.

      • NZFemme 10.9.1

        LOLOL *Flexing my commie cred

        • Draco T Bastard 10.9.1.1

          Radicalism 83
          Socialism 100
          Tenderness 40.625

          These scores indicate that you are a progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with a liberated atheist. It appears that you are skeptical towards religion, and have a pragmatic attitude towards humanity in general.

          Your attitudes towards economics appear communist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.

          To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, an idealist with primarily strong opinions.

          • Blue 10.9.1.1.1

            Radicalism 63.75
            Socialism 18.75
            Tenderness 62.25

            Ha Draco I’m more tender than you.

            • Colonial Viper 10.9.1.1.1.1

              Seems like I:

              1) am not that radical
              2) am highly socialist
              3) care about all you pricks too much!!!

              Who would’ve thought.

        • Murray Olsen 10.9.1.2

          Pfft, you’re right wing, NZFemme 🙂

          Radicalism 88.5
          Socialism 100
          Tenderness 62.5

          These scores indicate that you are a tender-minded progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with an animal rights activist. It appears that you are moderate towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

          Your attitudes towards economics appear communist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.

          To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, an egalitarian with many strong opinions.

    • McFlock 10.10

      Radicalism 85.75
      Socialism 87.5
      Tenderness 50

      Odd. Thought I was more of an insensitive dickhead than 50% tender 🙂

    • Tracey 10.11

      Found this when I was recalling Hooten’s part in Hollowmen.

      His rather desperate post here yesterday and 2 days earlier on kiwiblog reminded me of some things Hager once wrote about him.

      “I first became aware of Matthew Hooton when he was a spin doctor in the late 1990s for Cabinet Minister Lockwood Smith. He got a mention in my book on anti-environmental public relations, Secrets and Lies. At that time he was helping his Minister argue that the state company Timberlands was actually helping improve the environment by chopping down West Coast native forests. This cynical world of ministerial advisers is illustrated beautifully by the current Australian TV satire called The Hollowmen, which is well worth watching online here.
      I next noticed Hooton in 2003, when he was a National Party activist arguing in a party conference that National should drop the nuclear-free policy. That year he was working as a freelance PR consultant, notably assisting the tobacco industry. Over several months he collected information on organisations supporting new smoke-free legislation, information that was later used by the ACT Party’s Rodney Hide to attack those groups and the smoke-free legislation on the day it was introduced to Parliament. Willingness to work on the side of tobacco companies is a very clear way of identifying the less ethical PR operators. (John Key’s strategy adviser Mark Textor, of the Australian firm Crosby/Textor, likewise stands out as someone who was willing to work for tobacco companies.)
      These experiences paved the way to Hooton’s next job, working freelance for Don Brash. What Hooton doesn’t mention when he expresses is indignation about the leaked information in The Hollow Men, is that he is one of the people the book shows at work. His strategy e-mails are there for the world to see. Anyone who wonders what to make of Matthew Hooton’s public contributions to New Zealand politics really should read what he writes in private. His advice is sometimes clever, but it is also cynical. It is very revealing.

      Which brings us to the point. Anyone who wonders why Hooton is making wild allegations about theft and crime again needs only to see what the leaked materials revealed about Hooton himself.

      His words have since been used in the Hollow Men stage play and now in the feature-length documentary. This is the unacknowledged context of all Hooton’s comments about my book and the Police. Like Don Brash and the other National Party figures featured in the book, presenting themselves as the victims of dark deeds is preferable to facing up to their own dark deeds as revealed in the book.

      For this sort of PR person, the answer when faced with a crisis is to attack the messenger, deny everything and claim that they themselves are the victims in the affair. Like an octopus squirting ink into the water, the hope is that these diversions will allow them to escape unscathed. In this world of spin, words, arguments and personal attacks are all just means to an end, tools to advance their and their clients’ objectives. “

      • beGone Craven SpyBill leopard 10.11.1

        @ Tracey,

        Very useful comment.

        I just wrote on the ‘Smell the Fear’ thread, in response to one of your comments that I really do think it is very deceptive indeed the way Mr Hooton is introduced as a ‘commentator’ when he appears on TV. This is simply wrong and allows his opinions to be taken as relevant when they aren’t at all; they are simply opinion manipulation techniques.

    • mac1 10.12

      Political Values

      Radicalism 80.25
      Socialism 100
      Tenderness 78.125

      These scores indicate that you are a tender-minded progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with an animal rights activist. It appears that you are moderate towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.

      Your attitudes towards economics appear communist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.

      To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, an idealist with many strong opinions.

    • Neoleftie 10.13

      Radicalism 61
      Socialism 81.25
      Tenderness 75
      Interesting!

  11. wyndham 11

    Can I recommend the TV3 doco..”Mind The Gap” of yesterday evening (29th.) as compulsory viewing ? A great expose of the evil of neo-liberal politics.

    http://www.tv3.co.nz/Shows/InsideNZ.aspx

    • CC 11.1

      Agreed wydham. Noticed Air NZ CEO being paid $1.2m and the setting up of Air NZ for handing over to the rentiers in the MSM this morning. Especially significant after the costs of sort-termism and asset sales being highlighted as causes of the gap.

      • phillip ure 11.1.1

        aside from the litany of inequities/miseries for many..

        ..two of the more jaw-dropping stat from that program is the $5 billion in tax-dodges run by the rich/corporates(?) each year..

        ..and also the confirmation of just how much money would be raised by a financial-transactions/hone heke -tax on the banksters..

        ..address those two..

        ..and we will have more than enough wherewithall to repair our country..

        ..’to put things right’..

        ..and there will be no need to focus on clawing back more p.a.y.e..from workers..

        ..surely promises focused on these two issues would be the keystone of any progressive election campaign policy-plank/promises..?

        ..the added bonus from focusing on the tax-thieves/banksters..and not the workers..would totally emasculate any fear-mongering from key/national..aimed at workers fearful of having to pay more tax from their wages/salaries under a progressive government….

        ..don’t target the innocent..(the workers..esp. the working-poor/struggling middle class..promise them tax relief..)

        ..get the monies from the banksters..and the big-time tax-thieves..(real ‘user-pays’..eh..?..)

        (don’t forget that treasury figures prepared for harawira before the last election..showed that a small hone heke-tax on inter-bank transactions..

        (not customer-bank interactions..once again..don’t target the innocent..)

        ..that the monies raised from this..would allow us to do away with g.s.t..if we so chose..

        ..that gives some indication of the seachange that would bring..

        ..then on top of that..there is that $5 billion in unpaid tax the richest are stealing from the rest of us..

        ..as i said..fix those two..and we are nearly home with solving some of our most pressing problems..

        ..and together..along with promises of tax-relief for working-poor/middle class..

        ..they’d make a pretty potent election campaign..

        ..eh..?

        phillip ure..

  12. Tracey 12

    Was at dinner at an Indian restaurant in Auckland last night with my ACT/National voting family.

    They became quite animated, and pointed out that the PM and his family had sat down behind me.

    Two things struck me;

    1. What a great country we live in that a PM can sit down for a simple meal in a crowded restaurant and no one bothers him (positively or negatively);

    2. He just couldn’t seem to decide what to order. He took ages. Then a person approached the table with an envelope with something written on it and handed it to him. I could only make out curia or something on the envelope. He opened it, read it and then reeled off his order like a regular.

    Note: only part of the above is true.

    • Ron 12.1

      I hope it was the chain of restaurants currently being investigated.

    • chrissy 12.2

      Did he have the Goon Squad with him?

    • yeshe 12.3

      ooh er, they iz wotching u now tracey …. 🙂

    • Tim 12.4

      Reminds me of another little Injun SSSSStrant moment Tracey involving the PM and his enter age returning to Wellington whilst passing through the Kapiti Coast. I knew I shudda cudda wudda kept the security video! (except that it just made the staff want to vomit – despite the hour or so of comedy entertainment it provided). All complete wif Nafe da man, ‘Sir’ John Key, the DPS et al …. con ois ers of fine Injun cwasoin and experts with it. Come to think of it – there’s probably some of it still around.

      We once gave Aaron Gilmore shit! This was priceless! We all had ‘learnings’ from that little episode re the size of their egos and their arrogance.
      Don’t you KNOW who we are? !!!!

  13. Patrick 13

    Interesting findings c/o Salon.com on Amerian investment in drug screening for beneficiaries a la National red meat policy onshore:
    http://www.salon.com/2013/08/29/gop%e2%80%99s_inane_money_eating_sham_drug_tests_for_welfare_a_huge_failure/

  14. Greywarbler 14

    Amazing revelations from Oz! Kerry-Ann Walsh on Radionz update on Oz this a.m. Rudd seems to be making up policy on the hoof which hasn’t even been passed by his colleagues. And wait for it, some in the betting industry have refused to accept any more bets, some have closed their books and paid out previous punters. They are finding it impossible to assess any odds at all apparently.

    She said that Kevin Rudd is rushing round saying whatever he thinks will gain positive attention in each state. He suggested, unexpectedly, shifting defence bases to Brisbane or further north. He is keen to recover lost ground in Qld so that would make sense to him as a short term expedient move I guess.

    But Rudd has cut off his nose to spite his face. In undermining Gillard he has shafted Labour as a whole. Abbott seems certain to win – playing a cool hand in comparison.
    Have a listen.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport
    Bets on Abbott to win Australia election paid out early ( 1′ 58″ )
    07:58 The Australian election race is over – at least, according to a betting agency
    across the Tasman.

    Also This should be interesting on Auckland. Listen in.
    4 ’til 8 with Katrina Batten on Sunday 1 September 2013
    4:07 The Sunday Feature: Is the Auckland Supercity Working?
    Simon Mercep anchors a special panel discussion exploring the success of Auckland’s local body reforms, including the results of new research conducted by AUT (RNZ)
    From the Radio New Zealand National Schedule

    (Have edited this and changed paras around.)

    • Murray Olsen 14.1

      Abbott has been making up slogans (not really policy) on the hoof for ages. It’s possible that, as with the boat people, Rudd is just copying him. I spoke with a colleague yesterday who knows someone high up in the Canberra bureaucracy. They said that Rudd is 200 times as egotistic, micromanaging and hard to work with as has been reported in the media.

      The Australian Labor Party should just start again. They have very little worth keeping.

      • Tracey 14.1.1

        When Rudd loses, I doubt he will ever admit the damage he did to the party through his own unswerving pursuit to establish himself as the greatest person to have ever lived.

      • Greywarbler 14.1.2

        I was thinking of NZ Labour as being like a good old car that was getting a new engine and a new lease of life.

        I wondered about the same analogy for Oz, looked up Holden and found that Oz is in difficulties and Labour is thinking of demanding govt buys Australian made, somthing that will never happen here under present thinking. Rudd has been making promises about supporting the car industry.
        The announcement comes as Labor fights to hold the ultra-marginal Victorian seat of Corangamite based around Geelong, which has been hit hard by Ford’s announcement that it will cease Australian manufacturing operations in 2016….
        The government makes the commitment as it seeks to calm industry anger over its decision to tighten the fringe benefits tax regime for company cars, which the industry argues could slash sales of locally manufactured vehicles by 20 per cent.
        The government offered a further $200m to the motor industry on the eve of the election campaign, and introduced a directive that only Australian-made motor vehicles were to be purchased for the commonwealth fleet.
        http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/election-2013/kevin-rudds-500m-boost-for-car-industry/story-fn9qr68y-1226698798673

        Abbott’s plan is for withdrawing $500 million.
        http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/poll-could-kill-car-industry-20130805-2ra91.html

        The Oz car industry is down to 200,000 from 300,000. They have a high dollar killing them too.
        The decline in the numbers of cars made in Australia is caused by a combination of factors but chief among them is the high Australian dollar. Even now, at its current level of the low $US90c range, the exchange rate is hurting the local car industry. This is a very important point to make.
        http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-14/toner—car-manufacturing-in-australia/4886462

        • Murray Olsen 14.1.2.1

          One of the problems of the Australian car industry is that they produce old fashioned, poor quality rubbish. Then they overcharge for it.

  15. aerobubble 15

    So lets see, Martin Paine. He comes from a populous country that takes in many kiwis and provides them free health cover when they settle there. As a nation spending on medical research, training, and other equipment all reduce the costs for us here in NZ. Hospitals in NZ that already have the capacity to easily take a extra patient, and whats to say Mr.Paine does get some other ailment. The idea that our purpose in watering down residency to business visas was what? So that we could grow the cackles of the press corps and bureaucrat costs, all because they said yes to letting him in. Sorry, but what comes around goes around, we gain hugely from UK spending on health care, on health coverage, on cheaper procedures, on medical staff trained in the UK, we owe not to free load and accept the mistake that the visa was issued to him. Secondly, its actually good for our health system to have one more patient, as its runs efficiently, gains experience, and used readily accessible and waiting to be used health care services and equipment. Why have all that effort, on standby, in case, and then not use it an extra go around, its not like business visa holders would not need health care, that a small minority may get ailments that are expense to treat, and that Mr Paine has yet to need any of them. Sorry, I just think its more costly to send him on his way, costly for the concern the UK may have that we are introducing costs on to them and them revisiting Kiwis in the UK health costs. I think its just wrong to jump the gun before the costly healthcare, just because he has a condition that has more predictable cost than those who arrive here with undiscovered cancer or whatever. It smacks of snapper quotas, and testing drugs on beagles, a backdown is very likely, its just more cover for Key and his legalizing the illegality of the GSCB.

    • Greywarbler 15.1

      aerobubble
      What can you give as reference to your comment to see background to it?

      • NZFemme 15.1.1

        http://www.3news.co.nz/Final-chapter-in-immigrants-battle-to-stay/tabid/817/articleID/310832/Default.aspx

        Martin immigrated here from the UK about (7?) years ago with his family and settled in Northland, invested in and built up his business, a local garage. He was upfront about his heart condition from the get go, and was admitted to NZ under a business category visa while his residency was being processed.

        He is now being faced with deportation, with his heart condition cited as reason for denial of residency. Campbell Live has been following the story for a few years now.

        • Tracey 15.1.1.1

          Is it wise for any immigrant to begin building a life and investing in a business until they have PR, OR did he have to build the business as part of his application.

          • NZFemme 15.1.1.1.1

            I’m not an immigration expert, but as I understand it, investing in his business was integral to his application.

            It’s worth pointing out that with an annual turnover of 2 million, and his employment of seven staff, Martin has been contributing a great deal to the small and relatively poor Northland township he’s settled in.

            Given that the cost for *fixing* his heart condition is estimated at a fairly paltry sum of $25,000 should he ever require medical intervention, it seems more than economically short-sighted to deport him.

            • North 15.1.1.1.1.1

              Agreed NZFemme. When I first heard about this I wondered about the posting of a $25K contingency bond. Not a good look in terms of those sufficiently wedged up having an advantage over others but I guess that in terms of principle that has already occurred in the context of his business residency status.

              Were there no bond, the contingency did in fact present, and the health system ended up footing the bill that would be $3.5K per job assuming the garage would not survive.

              Wonder how much Paula Bennett’s punitive and useless training courses cost per head ? She’s planning to pay up to $10K to consultants to keep one person full time employed for as little as a year isn’t she ?

            • aerobubble 15.1.1.1.1.3

              Actually I heard it was a minimum of $25,000 but maybe much much more. Personally I have no problem with the cost since Kiwis in the UK will receive this treatment too.

              Its just bad economics, if we and the UK both put up health cost barriers its will only mean that its costs more not less to both the UK and NZ. Costs on businesses who have to find replacement staff, cost of having to relocate, having to go further to find a garage, etc, etc. Its just very stupid uneconomic government that only feeds media whores and bureaucrats who shouldn’t have ticked the box in the first place. Mistakes happen, in principle its bad to chuck him out, and its just makes us all feel a bit unkind, geeze, what happen to a fair go, the tail in health care ain’t going away, I bet if they had let someone else in instead, they would have brought their soon to be boy racer paraplegic with them…
              …notch it up as an example of bad border policy and move on already.

        • millsy 15.1.1.2

          If he was Chinese, they would let him stay, plain and simple.

          In 25 short years, the ‘White New Zealand’ policy has become the ‘Chinese New Zealand’ policy.

          It will only be a matter of time before Chinese will be enjoying the right of entry into the country the same way that the British had until the late 1970’s.

  16. Greywarbler 16

    Local body elections coming up – thoughts on radionz Outspoken program.
    Sunday 1 August 5.30pm
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/outspoken

    • ratesarerevolting 16.1

      [deleted]

      [lprent: Consider the following to be an example of how you should layout intelligible comments containing abuse.

      If you are going for simple abuse then always say why. Otherwise I can and often will regard it as being pointless abuse (as covered by the policy).

      A one week ban for simple stupidity by a fuckwit wannabe troll. ]

  17. George D 17

    I’m supporting the aspirant for the leader of the opposition who voted against National’s attack-the-poorest beneficiary-bashing-bill.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/218238/welfare-fraud-legislation-through-first-reading

    • QoT 17.1

      For those who don’t want to trawl Google for the vote on that (it doesn’t seem to be on the Parliament website … any clues?) the only votes against the bill were the Greens, Maaori, and Mana parties.

  18. chrissy 18

    Heard twatkey on radio this morning regarding Syria saying that he had a call in to whatshisname who runs Britain and that he expected that he british guy) would get back to him in 24 hours and then he might put a call in to Obama who he was sure would want to talk to him considering the severity of Syria’s problems. Would love to know if this comes to pass.

    • Tracey 18.1

      Key’s been waiting for 24 hours for 2 days now.

      “The Prime Minister continues to not rule out not ruling anything out regarding whether he (and New Zealand) would or would not confirm any decision not ruling out the ruling out of action against Mr Assad.

      Mr Key told reporters this afternoon that he was expecting a call from Mr Cameron “shortly”.

      Mr Obama discussed the situation in Syria yesterday with Prime Minister Stephen Harper of Canada, a NATO ally, Cameron, Hollande, Ban Kee Moon, Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and his dog walker who has some great ideas given his experience with flighty puppies. Vice President Joe Biden spoke Tuesday with Britain’s deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg.

      Mr Key confirmed that his relationship with Washington and the President is as strong as ever and pointed out that he had spoken with Washington today when the Secretary of State’s assistant to administrative affairs had called him but it turned out to be a wrong number.

      “It’s no big deal” said Mr Key. “We’re all very busy and I used to call wrong numbers when I was a kid all the time.”

      Mr Key didn’t rule out not answering his phone immediately when Mr Obama and Mr Cameron called. “I’m cheap, but I’m not easy.” he said.”

      • chrissy 18.1.1

        Chuckles.

      • North 18.1.2

        Yeah……..and if the landline’s busy when Cameron or Obama or Ban Ki Moon call universal knowledge will have them try +64 21 ARSEHOLE.

        The world may go to the brink but it WILL be saved. Phew !

  19. geoff 19

    Nothing on kiwiblog about ‘Mind the Gap’.

    Is the right’s strategy to ignore this for fear of drawing further attention to their bankrupt worldview?

  20. Nicolas 20

    I’ve been following the Herald’s “Gambling and Sport” series for the past week. Just wondering what anyone else thinks about the relationship that’s been built in New Zealand, between sport initiatives and gambling funds?

    Considering problem gamblers contribute disproportionately to the money raised, isn’t this really a matter of funding sport through the misery of some of the most vulnerable members of our society? I understand how great sport is, love playing football on the weekends, but I don’t know if sport clubs are really making that much of a contribution to our communities, as to outweigh the damage (often incalculable) suffered by problem gamblers and the people around them, including wider society.

    Not an expert on the subject, but our current arrangement just feels fundamentally wrong.

  21. Winston Smith 21

    Since National have been a bit tardy in paying out my invoices I’ve decided to lend my expertise to Labour (except for the work for Judith Collins as thats pro bono)

    So first bit of advice for Labour is to gag certain MPs until the election is over, these MPs are (obviously) T. Mallard and C. Curran but also A. Little after this head thumping performance:

    http://www.labour.org.nz/news/bill-will-re-victimise-victims-of-violent-crime?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    • Tracey 21.1

      “my expertise” . source please???

      • Winston Smith 21.1.1

        Trust me I’m a consultant 🙂

        But seriously if Labour follwed my advice would they get more or less votes in the next election…you know they would

        • Tracey 21.1.1.1

          😉 @ consultant

          • Winston Smith 21.1.1.1.1

            Can’t spell consult without con or insult…

            What can’t be denied though is that whoever wins the leadership battle (I’d prefer Jones but I think Cunliffe will) need to put gagging orders on a number of MPs

            I’m sure I’m not the only person on here that remembers some of the pearls of wisdom that dropped from the mouths of Labours MPs

            • fender 21.1.1.1.1.1

              Also can’t deny the disconnect between ” ….pearls of wisdom that dropped from the mouths of Labours MPs” and your preference for Jones who provides “pearls” on a regular basis.

              • Winston Smith

                and the tone has been successfully lowered 🙂

                • fender

                  If pointing out “pearls of wisdom” = lowering the tone I’m not surprised you are an under-employed consultant.

                • fender

                  Oh my bad, I’ve just realised you were using your whalebrain humour and got all giggly over pearls.

    • Lanthanide 21.2

      What’s so bad about Little’s statement? I agree with it.

      It’s been said before that National’s automatic response is to pass a new law, rather than trying to enforce or expand existing laws.

      • chris73 21.2.1

        I don’t agree with leaving it to judges, he makes it sound as if its compulsory and it sounds like hes protecting crims

        • Colonial Viper 21.2.1.1

          Better to concentrate decision making power with the Prime Minister and his staff eh.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 21.3

      Oh damn, and Labour were so close to getting Winston’s vote. No, wait, Winston’s an insincere tr0ll whose word ain’t worth shit, I was forgetting.

  22. Tracey 22

    LOL @ prefer Jones and want gagging orders on idiot MPs.

  23. BLiP 23

    CALLING ALL CONCERNED CITIZENS

    On September 1st 2013 there will be nationwide rallies which will unite Kiwis who are concerned about the loss of democracy occurring in New Zealand.

    Foreign control, corporate takeover of education, asset sales, GE food, pesticides, the health system, unsustainable farming and fishing, destructive mining, and the TTPA all have the common theme of destroying our future.

    Add to that the GCSB bill which has now been passed in the most undemocratic way, so we need to collectively show our concern.

    Details here: http://kiwisconnect.org.nz/action/

    and here: https://www.facebook.com/events/472651306158964/

    The problem is civil obedience

  24. Morrissey 24

    Tropical fish smuggler caught at Auckland Airport
    “Wet, bulging pockets” gave him away

    New Zealand customs officials on the job. Respect!….

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-30/new-zealand-catches-man-smuggling-live-fish-in-trouser-pockets.html

  25. logie97 25

    If you get a chance to listen to “Tell-it-as-you-see-it Boag” on The Panel RNZ this afternoon she was praising up the New Zealand Education system as if she had had a Road to Damascas experience. It’s “wonderful” full of “brilliant things” and by international standards “bloody dam good”. “We should celebrate the good that is going on our schools. For too long we have been ignoring this.” She has apparently done some on-the-scene work recently and actually gone into classrooms.

    She should take Parata and the rest of the champions of charter schools who have spent the last five years telling us that the current system is a failing system, with failing teachers and a tail as long as your arm.

    • Greywarbler 25.1

      A tale as long as a serpent’s tongue! (thinking of the slithery thing in Harry Potter).

    • Morrissey 25.2

      Boag’s praise was insincere, and nothing more than a roundabout way of having a shot at the teacher unions. She said that the reason there was so much “dissension” amongst teachers was “perhaps because the teaching union so highly unionised.”

      Once again, her fellow Panel guest (and “friend”) Brian Edwards failed to challenge this breathtaking and provocative display of dishonesty. Boag is always on the job; Edwards is not so alert. He was (yet again) bamboozled by the woman he always takes such exaggerated pains to point out is his “friend”.

  26. Not a PS Staffer 26

    “A Labour Green Government is the kind of Government I’d want to be part of.”
    Grant Robertson
    Source: Bryce Edwards Interview, Uni of Otago Politics Dept Voice Chat TV show, 21st Oct 2011

    Is that a Labour aspiration? Is that a suitable aspiration a real leader for the Labour Party should have?

    I imagine Cunliffe’s aspirations would be to be the Leader of a very strong Labour Party.

    • McFlock 26.1

      Well, a labour party at >50% is unrealistic under MMP, so yeah, labour would have to go in coalition with someone. Options: Greens.

    • Rhinocrates 26.2

      Any government involving Beltway Grant will turn to dullest beige, lacking even the military verve of khaki or the consistency of grey. It would even be worse than fawn.

  27. Greywarbler 27


    Shane Jones and Peter Talley have Dalmatian blood so Shane says. Here is a clip of I think the Kaitaia Dalmatian group dancing the Kolo to their own music from tamburicas probably.

  28. ak 28

    There’s a warm wind blowing,

    Feel it brothers sisters and who-cares-sexed

    It whispers loudly today in the lost and perplexed

    In even burt Smith BMerries and stuffpoll sense

    In the Left celebration of the present tense.

    Now is the hour, three decades removed

    From the treason and filth Caygill/Douglas crewed

    So live love and mean it, generation what

    Or stay forever tory-fashioned

    lost

    and forgot

  29. Jane 29

    Testing… is The Standard broken? No posts showing?

  30. Greywarbler 30

    Testing further at nearly 10 a.m. No Friday Social post. I hope all is well with whoever was to look after The Standard. We aren’t like Jokeyhen who likes to leave his post and go off overseas, or even go off in his head at home. So this gap might mean illness or problems. So hope all okay. If you want an alternative for a few minutes, to please your eyes look at the link for the Kolo Dalmatian dance I put on Open Mike last night.

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