Open mike 30/09/2012

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1. Ad 1

   30 September 2012 at 8:01 am

   David Cunliffe is putting out a new speech today.
   Hopefully something that starts to show what Labour-Green economic management might look like.
   • karol 1.1

     30 September 2012 at 8:03 am

     Cool. Where?
     • mickysavage 1.1.1

       30 September 2012 at 8:27 am

       Laingholm Community Hall 2:30 pm.
       • karol 1.1.1.1

         30 September 2012 at 8:29 am

         Thanks, Micky. Pity I’ll be working then.
         • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1

           30 September 2012 at 1:15 pm

           If someone going along would be kind enough to give us the after-action report 🙂
   • Draco T Bastard 1.2

     30 September 2012 at 3:11 pm

     It’s here.
     • Dr Terry 1.2.1

       30 September 2012 at 4:55 pm

       Thanks Draco for making this brilliant speech available to us. What other current politician could match such well constructed and inspiring words? Shearer will try, but come nowhere close. Imagine someone like Key attempting to deliver a speech of this quality! Laughable! Here is a way ahead, full of promise and policy. How is it that a man of such exceedingly high intelligence is not leading the Labour opposition?

       I guess the media will not notice this event of today!
       • mickysavage 1.2.1.1

         30 September 2012 at 5:51 pm

         I enjoyed David’s comments about neo-liberalism.

         “Neo-Liberalism is based on the idea that it’s a dog-eat-dog world. Neo-Liberalism is based on the idea that greed is good, that we’re all locked in an economic life-and-death-struggle with each other. Neo-Liberalism says that compassion is for suckers. Neo-Liberalism says that if the world is going to the dogs, it might as well be the top dogs. Indeed, to borrow from Oliver Stone’s Wall Street, not only is greed good, “it’s legal.” 
       • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.2

         30 September 2012 at 9:00 pm

         Here is a way ahead, full of promise and policy.

         No it’s not. It’s just more BaU and we know, or we should anyway, that BaU doesn’t work as the increasing poverty in this country proves.
         • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.2.1

           1 October 2012 at 12:43 pm

           Nah mate I think your judgement is too harsh. NZ politics hasn’t seen this kind of identification and analysis of neoliberal failures for a long time.

           Does it suggest the brand new paradigms that we need? Nope it does fall short there. Mimicking a strategy that scandanavian countries successfully used during a massive resource, financial and energy boom is not necessarily going to work for us, in this time.

           And that’s where the likes of us come in to push and educate so that the citizens force the pollies to take heed. And to realise also that the pollies are never going to accomplish that much of the change required.
           • BloddyOrphan 1.2.1.2.1.1

             1 October 2012 at 2:07 pm

             Go David Cunliffe !

             It’s probably the first truly definitive attack on neo-liberalism world wide.

             The problem with labels in general is they detract from the core thinking that derived them.

             Add a couple of years and it becomes the label that drives them, when that happens it’s time to whatch out for the “Evil Ones”.
2. Jokerman 2

   30 September 2012 at 8:08 am

   interest politics? minority politics? particular politics? singular politics? classification politics?

   equation politics

   -Excalibur (like the palm of our hands)
3. Jokerman 3

   30 September 2012 at 8:15 am

   oops, forgot the categorical imperative in hurry-Kant
   (work in progress)

   now, Soren Kierkegaard; there is a thoughtful man.
4. Te Reo Putake 4

   30 September 2012 at 9:19 am

   I look forward to the posts on Kiwiblog and Whaleoil condemning Aussie talkback host Alan Jones’s latest vicious attack on Julia Gillard. Won’t be long now …
   • Morrissey 4.1

     30 September 2012 at 10:01 am

     You hate Alan Jones too? Then you might like to watch him getting publicly humiliated on television by Chopper Read….
     
   • Jokerman 4.2

     30 September 2012 at 7:43 pm

     NOT!
5. Jenny 5

   30 September 2012 at 9:27 am

   Syria

   They are our aircraft and we have pilots who are ready.

   http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/rebels-make-gains-in-blunting-syrian-air-attacks/

   After months of being massacred from the sky, rebel forces are encroaching on the borders of at least one government controlled airfield.

   This has created a conundrum for the rebel fighters. Being close to the airfield allows them to shoot at these aircraft when they are the most vulnerable to light weapons, either on the ground, or at taking off and landing.

   The rebels say they will overun the base eventually. But what should they do with the aircraft?

   Destroy them?

   Or use them against the regime?

   And what would the Western Powers do if the revolutionary forces get hold of jet aircraft?

   Already Western Powers have threatened to intervene if Assad’s gas weapons threaten to fall into rebel hands.

   Western leaders have also expressed fears that if effective anti-aircraft weapons, particularly any potent shoulder fired anti aircraft heat seeking missiles, got into the hands of the rebel fighters that this could change the balance of power in the Middle East.

   Because of these fears the West have been content to let Assad bomb and strafe defenceless Syrian suburbs and towns without mercy.

   The huge civilian casualties doesn’t stir them but the thought of powerful anti aircraft weapons in the hands of the “Arab Street” sends a chill down their spine. The threat being that such a change in the balance of power could spiral beyond their control ending the long standing Western Imperium in the Middle East, toppleing all the well armed despotic puppet states that are the bolster to that power.

   The consequences could be far reaching
   • Morrissey 5.1

     30 September 2012 at 10:10 am

     Trouble is, Jenny, they do nothing about Israel’s continual bombing of Gaza; it’s a bit much to expect them to do anything about Syria.
     • Jenny 5.1.1

       30 September 2012 at 2:50 pm

       Sad, but true, Morrissey.
   • muzza 5.2

     30 September 2012 at 10:49 am

     Jenny you were doing so well there for a while too, focussing on the local issues like PoAL.

     Perhaps keep focus on what you understand clearly, and on which will have greater impact here in NZ.

     I’m sure all the innocent Syrians executed by the FSA Death Squads (Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi, US/UK/French sponsored), would not miss your inability to comprehend what is nearer to the actual situtation in Syria, which pretty much means you condone their deaths!
     • Colonial Viper 5.2.1

       30 September 2012 at 10:55 am

       I find it fascinating that Jenny is trying to position the Western military powers as being at least tacit backers of Assad. When all the arms and funding going to the foreign fighters who have infiltrated the “Free Syria Army” is coming through countries who have close military and financial ties with the US and UK.

       As you state muzza, including Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and also Turkey.
       • Populuxe1 5.2.1.1

         30 September 2012 at 11:52 pm

         You forgot Iran.
         • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1.1

           30 September 2012 at 11:54 pm

           Yep. Iran and Syria have very close ties. If the US and Israel is to increase their military and financial leverage over Iran, taking Syria down will be very helpful.
   • Colonial Viper 5.3

     30 September 2012 at 11:06 am

     Suicide bombing against Syrian military HQ caught on camera

     Notice how the van carrying the explosives is still being driven as it is detonated. Suicide bombings like this mark an ugly turning point in this conflict, and demonstrate the influence that foreign jihadi and islamist fighters are having on the tactics of the Free Syrian Army.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3PFvuo8d9M
     • Draco T Bastard 5.3.1

       30 September 2012 at 3:17 pm

       I’d say that was accidental. That was definitely not the place anyone would want to set off a bomb.
     • BloodyOrphan 5.3.2

       30 September 2012 at 3:25 pm

       Poor bastards, Thanks Netenyahu, ya set another one off.
       It’s his bloody words they would’ve been “programmed” by society too watch for.
       In a moment of loss they spoke to the Taliban, and what would they be saying?
     • Jenny 5.3.3

       30 September 2012 at 3:32 pm

       Suicide bombings like this mark an ugly turning point in this conflict, and demonstrate the influence that foreign jihadi and islamist fighters are having on the tactics of the Free Syrian Army.

       Colonial Viper

       More racist and Islamaphobic bullshit from you CV.

       CV, where is your evidence of all the weapons and support you lyingly claim that the rebels are getting from the West? If the Syrian rebels were getting all the support and weapons you claim, they wouldn’t need suicide bombers.

       In an asymmetric conflict between two heavily unequal forces, on one hand a powerful conventional modern army and on the other a poorly armed insurgent force – in desperation, the much weaker military force finding themselves at a serious military disadvantage in munitions and equipment, have resorted to suicide attacks. Examples of this can be cited in almost every major military conflict. In the invasion of Lebanon by Israel in 2006 suicide attacks have been cited as the main factor in the Israeli conventional army’s defeat at the hands of the paramilitary forces of Hezbollah. Hezbollah found through bitter experience that, in that heavily asymmetric conflict, if they sent ten fighters against a similar number of IDF, that they would lose 9 out of 10 Lebanese volunteers for 1 Israeli soldier, (if that). With the use of suicide bomber volunteers, that statistic could be reversed. These attacks were so effective, it was said that a column of modern Merkava tanks could be halted at the sound of an approaching dirt-bike.

       Most of Israel’s casualties in that war were Merkava tank crews.

       As a result in Lebanon these desperate suicide attacks against the Israeli invaders became known as “the poor man’s nuclear bomb“.

       The reason this asymetric tactic was called the poor man’s nuclear weapon, is because while a professional army can afford to pay soldiers to kill for them. Professional armies can’t afford to pay soldiers enough to die for them.

       Despite the racist depiction of this phenomenon as the result of fanatic religious fundamentalism unique to Islamists. In extremis it has also been practiced by largely secular forces as well. The mainly secular insurgents of Tamil Eelam of Sri Lanka relied heavily on this tactic.

       In Syrian history, Jules Jammal a Christian Syrian naval officer who grew up near Homs was a defender in the invasion of the Sinai Peninsula by the combined Western forces of Israel, Britain and France. In 1956 Jules Jammal volunteered to become a suicide bomber, to sink a french war ship.

       Jammal is considered a hero in both Syria and Egypt, receiving official military honours from both governments on his sacrifice.

       For his actions Jamal was also awarded the medal of St Peter and St Paul from the Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch.

       Streets in Syria and Egypt are still named after this Arab Christian hero.

       Unfortunately due to the sheer inhuman military brutality of the Assad regime and it’s reliance on it’s fully modernly equipped army and airforce to suppress the rebellion, pitted against the woeful lack of powerful weapons by the insurgents, this desperate tactic may become more common in Syria.
       • BloodyOrphan 5.3.3.1

         30 September 2012 at 3:41 pm

         Sadly true, which is why society has to speek Life Positive messages.
         War and Destruction will only amplify the situation.
         They’d be better off building a “Homeless” muslim compund and trying to help these people.
         But who’d trust them?
         Not me at this point that’d be 4 sure.
         The Christian ethic of Universal Understanding and acceptance has a lot of merit for the middle east in general.
       • Pascal's bookie 5.3.3.2

         30 September 2012 at 3:49 pm

         I’d love to see some links to what you’re saying re suicide attacks against tanks by Hezbollah. especially the motorcycle thing. I’m not saying it’s not true, but it does seem unlikely. usually you’d use shaped charges or ambush with rpgs against tanks, neither of which things Hezbollah are short of.

         Hezbollah are a serious outfit of course. The fear is that they will be getting involved in Syria soon, deeply uncomfortable with the rise of wahhibist organisation like AQ in the insurgency.
         • BloodyOrphan 5.3.3.2.1

           30 September 2012 at 3:52 pm

           They disable the track with hand grenades, and they are charging a tank, one way trip usually.
           And then shoot the rpgs’s etc
       • Jokerman 5.3.3.3

         30 September 2012 at 7:34 pm

         🙂 the ‘tide is turning’
       • Colonial Viper 5.3.3.4

         30 September 2012 at 7:52 pm

         Jenny said:

         CV, where is your evidence of all the weapons and support you lyingly claim that the rebels are getting from the West? If the Syrian rebels were getting all the support and weapons you claim, they wouldn’t need suicide bombers.

         Keep pushing for and glamourising your war.

         But what is happening in Syria is a proxy war and a foreign invasion, not a popular uprising. Unless its a popular uprising which isn’t that popular because the bloody thing has been going on for well over a full year now.

         As for evidence of where the FSA is getting support from, I have posted multiple links previously, which you have patiently ignored. The conflict in Syria is essentially a power struggle and proxy war driven on by foreign powers and foreign fighters. That’s what you’re supporting Jenny.

         Let’s try this now:

         Syria’s Secular and Islamist Rebels: Who Are the Saudis and the Qataris Arming?

         Read more: http://world.time.com/2012/09/18/syrias-secular-and-islamist-rebels-who-are-the-saudis-and-the-qataris-arming/#ixzz27vx9txpb
         • Jenny 5.3.3.4.1

           1 October 2012 at 9:40 pm

           Still no effective anti-aircraft weapons

           What is remarkable is that this substantial strip of “free” Syria has been patched together in the past 18 months by military defectors, students, tradesmen, farmers and pharmacists who have not only withstood the Syrian army’s withering fire but in some instances repelled it using a hodgepodge of limited, light weaponry. The feat is even more amazing when one considers the disarray among the outside powers supplying arms to the loosely allied band of rebels.

           Thanks for this CV.
           Finally, you are starting to supply links to more than outright propaganda and lies, or half baked Washington beltway gossip and ignorant and bigoted smears. Maybe you are beginning to get an inkling into the real nature of this people’s revolt. Here’s hoping anyway.

           Private Saudi and Qatari backers with some assistance from within the Turkish state, are trying to buy influence among the revolutionaries. Playing favourites, giving support to some and not others. Trying to influence the out come of the revolution.

           There is no surprise here.

           They realise that the rebels are on the right side of history, but they want to influence the rebels eventual victory, to retrieve the most gain for themselves. However their jockeying for position could be doing more harm than good to the resistance, and rather than end the war, prolong it.

           …..as TIME reported in June, a secretive group operates something like a command center in Istanbul, directing the distribution of vital military supplies believed to be provided by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and transported with the help of Turkish intelligence to the Syrian border and then to the rebels. Further reporting has revealed more details of the operation, the politics and favoritism that undermine the task of creating a unified rebel force out of the wide array of groups trying to topple the Assad regime.

           My emphasis

           Apart from the disorganising effect of the “control room”, in supplying weapons to some and not others. Even the support they have given to their favourites is parsimonious at best.

           “We felt that the sides giving us support weren’t on the same page,” says the control-room member from eastern Syria. “They started having side meetings with some groups.” Still, he says, “what is most important is that the guys receive weapons. Whether that is via an operations room or directly, we don’t care. Nobody knows the truth from the talk,” he says. “We have been lied to [by the international community], and we have lied to the guys inside, saying weapons would arrive in a week, in 10 days, and months have passed and some areas haven’t received supplies. So unless I see it, and see it distributed, even I don’t believe it.”

           In the town of Bdeeta in Idlib province — which happens to be the hometown of Riad al-As’aad — rebel fighters complain bitterly about the lack of assistance. “We are licking our plates. We beg for salt,” says Abu Mar’iye, who heads the Martyrs of Ibditha group in the tiny town, home to some 2,000 people. “It’s not enough. Even the weapons that arrive, it’s like a drop, just enough so the fighting continues, so we can kill each other but not win.”

           (The FSA is nominally headed by Riad al-As’aad, who is based in Turkey. Neither As’aad nor his chief FSA rival General Mustafa Sheikh are party to the Istanbul control room that supplies and arms rebels who operate under the FSA banner. The two men each have their own sources of funding and are independently distributing money and weapons to selected FSA units.)
6. Morrissey 6

   30 September 2012 at 9:55 am

   WIMP -WALLOPING: Two Jackals tear apart David Shearer

   Beleaguered Labour Party leader David Shearer made another dreadful, stuttering, bumbling, wandery appearance on TV3’s The Nation yesterday. In the face of a couple of aggressive young right wing journalists, Shearer was unconvincing and hesitant throughout. He often seemed confused and, fatally, seemed to be woolly-minded about economic policy and currency questions. This weakness only fed the aggression of his interrogators.

   At one point, Shearer said, quite rightly, that the National Standards for primary and intermediate schools were not credible data.

   “It’s just the UNIONS that say that!” scoffed the Fairfax journalist John Hartevelt.

   Now, this was a perfect opening for a strong and confident politician to tear Hartevelt a new one; he could have pointed out that the group that Hartevelt sniffingly dismissed as “the unions” is actually comprised of virtually all of the nation’s teachers and educational theorists. In other words, “the unions” are people who, unlike John Hartevelt, are serious, informed and credible when it comes to talking about education.

   But Shearer’s response was a lame, “That’s not true,” not followed up by any argument at all.

   On Radio New Zealand National’s Mediawatch programme this morning, Hartevelt is currently getting a grilling by Colin Peacock over his shoddy release of the ropey National Standards figures. When he is contradicted and challenged, Hartevelt is anything but authoritative. What a pity the Labour Party lacks a leader prepared or able to do the same thing.
   • weka 6.1

     30 September 2012 at 11:20 am

     god, that’s depressing.
   • QoT 6.2

     30 September 2012 at 12:13 pm

     He didn’t even need to defend the unions, he just needed to say “Look, John, you yourself have stated that the data doesn’t reflect quality, isn’t moderated, and can’t be used to draw meaningful conclusions between different schools. So obviously that’s incorrect.”

     But that would involve being quick off the mark and bolshy enough to defend your viewpoints.
     • Colonial Viper 6.2.1

       30 September 2012 at 12:23 pm

       And he should have defended the unions at the same time: “let’s not forget that our teacher unions were amongst the first experts to correctly point out the glaring flaws in National Standards, well before many other commentators caught up with the facts.”
       • Jim Nald 6.2.1.1

         30 September 2012 at 12:34 pm

         Looking forward to hearing Shearer defending himself when his speechwriter gets on to it in that fantastic newsletter called “Shearer Stays”, oops, “Shearer Says”.
         • QoT 6.2.1.1.1

           30 September 2012 at 12:42 pm

           I’m calling “this week we held the government to account on National Standards data, and continued to champion the rights of parents and teachers and communities to do what’s best for their children and their children’s children.”
   • Kotahi Tāne Huna 6.3

     30 September 2012 at 12:29 pm

     I wonder if he’s figured out why the sickness bene on the roof story was a gift to right wing nut jobs yet.

     OK, so he stood around and looked the other way while Hartevelt put the boot into working people, but at least he managed not to spit in anyone’s face this time.
   • David H 6.4

     30 September 2012 at 2:10 pm

     Yes I too watched in numb horror, Has no-one in the Labour party worked it out yet??? Or maybe they have. BUT when we have a pull apart after the 2014 debacle that will be the election where the NZ Labour Party comes a woeful 3rd with fuck all seats behind a confident Green Party and A thieving NACT party in for the final round of theft and incompetence.
     We will be able to point the finger at OLD and PAST IT politicians clinging on with their fingertips. Pushing their own private agendas, just so they can suck at the public teat for another 3 years where they will have to do fuck all to get the money they are supposed to EARN!

     Now we all know who these old and past it ones are, so a little nudging in to the retirement rather than defeat.camp would be good.

     And will someone please please point out to shearer and his backers (Robertson) included is that he is not, and never will be, Prime Minister material, and neither are they, simply by the damage they have let happen to NZ, and it’s economy. By their self interest.
   • Dr Terry 6.5

     30 September 2012 at 5:02 pm

     Again, refer to today’s speech by the enlightened Cunliffe – compare and contrast with Shearer and you will wonder what the hell has gone wrong with the Labour Party!
     • BloodyOrphan 6.5.1

       30 September 2012 at 5:08 pm

       I think the “Delegation” style of leadership has definite merit

       While David Shearer hasn’t hit his straps yet, the example they set for NZ is a formidable one.
       Anyone of 5 different people should be able to step into his shoes without any qualms by the end of this year.
       • felix 6.5.1.1

         30 September 2012 at 5:51 pm

         Which five do you have in mind? I can think of two with enough profile, skill and experience for the job but not five. I can’t even get as far as three.
         • BloodyOrphan 6.5.1.1.1

           30 September 2012 at 5:58 pm

           Realistically I guess it’ll be all the major portfolios or shadow portfolios.
       • Herodotus 6.5.1.2

         30 September 2012 at 5:58 pm

         Shearer has to carry the discussion regarding the exchange rate. I throw my hands up there has been an identified issue yet all the solutions are to give the responsibility to the RB for the solutions. If they have some ides how to correct the issue them come out and inform us. I think either that they have no idea of a solution or the consequences are as bad as the what they are trying to solve.
         So by expecting the RB to fix the problem who directs them, especially as DS does not want “politicians to run the exchange rate.” !!! “Good grief” as Charlie Brown would say. After the GCSB being unrestricted in their actions now DS wants another govt. dept. in the RB to also be unrestricted.
         • BloodyOrphan 6.5.1.2.1

           30 September 2012 at 6:00 pm

           True, it comes back to that bleedin “Open Market” crap, needs to rethink that one pronto
7. Colonial Viper 7

   30 September 2012 at 10:49 am

   US military documents categorise Assange and Wikileaks as “enemies of the United States”

   THE US military has designated Julian Assange and WikiLeaks as enemies of the United States – the same legal category as the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban insurgency.

   Declassified US Air Force counter-intelligence documents, released under US freedom-of-information laws, reveal that military personnel who contact WikiLeaks or WikiLeaks supporters may be at risk of being charged with “communicating with the enemy”, a military crime that carries a maximum sentence of death.

   http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/us-calls-assange-enemy-of-state-20120927-26m7s.html#ixzz27cjH9qSk
   • prism 7.1

     30 September 2012 at 11:31 am

     CV 7
     On radionz this morning a report on food sharing and political discussion in the USA has presented an interesting picture of USA repressive attitudes. The group has a slogan food not bombs and this is making authorities extremely sensitive, saying that they can approve food distribution but there must be no banners with political messages. In fact one political commentator said they were a subversive influence that was undermining the USAs ability to get citizens to respond to possible attacks on the country from its enemies.

     They started off giving out food, vegetarian and vegan only, in the park where the Occupy groups began their protest. Free speech and free food are at the least embarrassing, particularly to very liberal politicians who are quite negative because it draws attention to their inadequacies, and at the most regarded as highly dangerous by the fear and war exponents in the USA who want to occupy the hearts and minds of their people.
     • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

       30 September 2012 at 11:43 am

       It’s a serious problem. 21st century NZ is going to have to walk a fine line between the interests and politics of two great Pacific powers. China and the USA. I’ve got little faith that our current crew can get it right for our magnificent, but very small, country.
       • Reagan Cline 7.1.1.1

         30 September 2012 at 6:12 pm

         Maybe. The unexpected is usually what happens though, and in retrospect it is seen as inevitable. Like the rise of Prussia – or England or Japan for that matter. Somewhere out there !
         • Jokerman 7.1.1.1.1

           30 September 2012 at 7:49 pm

           yes, and no. nothing new under the sun
   • Vicky32 7.2

     30 September 2012 at 7:58 pm

     THE US military has designated Julian Assange and WikiLeaks as enemies of the United States – the same legal category as the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban insurgency.

     Oh my giddy aunt. Nutmegs! Seriously, Assange has reason to be worried…
8. ianmac 8

   30 September 2012 at 11:05 am

   Graeme Edgler on Public Address has an intriguing dissection of the charge brought to the Police over the “spying” on Kim Dotcom compared to the investigation of teapot tapes.
   http://publicaddress.net/legalbeagle/kim-dotcom-vs-the-teapot-tapes/

   His short answer is that he believes that the four boxes needed can be ticked and that there will be a case to answer.
   Will take a long time but interesting.
   • Jokerman 8.1

     30 September 2012 at 7:25 pm

     now, here is an empathetic point of entry..:)

     SCHOPENHAUER ROCKS

     just in case one is hard of hearing,

     SCHOPENHAUER ROCKS

     so do Led Zeppelin and Patti Smith.

     have a listen to Cat (Yusaf Islam) Stevens’ ‘The Very Best Of ‘…i can’t keep it in…no …i can’t keep it in…gotta let it out…oh..i gotta let it out…(sans grass, regretably, yet THIS TOO MUST PASS)
9. prism 9

   30 September 2012 at 11:10 am

   Murray McCully stands up in the UN and criticises lack of action to aid the Syrian people and refers to the veto which has been utilised by China and Russia. Wonder if we will ever hear a criticism of USA policies from him? Not now we are the dingy dinghy again.
   • Janice 9.1

     30 September 2012 at 11:48 am

     Other countries had their head of state speaking, but I guess as there wasn’t a suitable baseball game Key sent the poisonous dwarf.
     • prism 9.1.1

       30 September 2012 at 2:17 pm

       Janice 9.1
       McCully probably was better than Jokey as he might start a world war with some inappropriate remark. McCully I am sure, knows more about the issues than Jokey Hen who also doesn’t want to mess up his fine financial fund mind with annoying matters better left to other people. The responsibility on a NZ PM is sooo wide, heavy and stressful. You just wouldn’t have a clue!

       I see that Murry McCully spoke on the importance of Israel and Palestine leaders talking again. They actually live very close to each other. Sounds a bit Sarah Palinish. Does that mean that I was wrong that he was a waste of time really because of biasing his speech on USA concerns. No, here is some background to the USA relationship and aid to Israel. Mostly google headings that offer the information I was looking for. The links don’t come up live.

       First a Wikipedia summary of a book, The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy on whether the USA lobby for Israel is mainly wealthy Jewish people. (There are likely to be some biased blogs on this subject so I think that a researched book would give a reliable view.) The book is by John Mearsheimer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, Professor of International Relations at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.
       **http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy

       On military aid USA Israel –
       **Israel–United States relations – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
       en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–United_States_relations
       Almost all U.S. aid to Israel is now in the form of military assistance, while in the past it … Strong congressional support for Israel has resulted in Israel’s receiving …

       **US Aid to Israel and the Palestinians
       ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html
       The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.2 million each day* in military aid and … Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts …

       **Tempering Iron Dome: US may spend $680 million on Israeli missile …
       rt.com/news/us-israel-military-aid-iron-dome-637/
       21 Apr 2012 – The US could fork out $680 million on strengthening the Israeli Iron Dome rocket shield. …

       (Obama and Israel)
       **U.S., Israel Build Military Cooperation – WSJ.com
       online.wsj.com/…/SB1000142405274870332100457542727255005…
       14 Aug 2010 – U.S. military aid to Israel has increased markedly this year. … Obama felt the increased military support is necessary to assure Israel’s security …

       (Jewish extensive reference to it) –
       **http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

       Here’s an interesting item on how the USA paranoia about attacks has caused it to look for guidance from the paranoic Israelis.
       **http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/31/opinion/la-oe-blackwill-israel-20111031

       This one has moving pics on the topics and an academic opinion that the UN structure assists USA to act in Israel’s interests
       **http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/09/29/264033/dozens-of-insurgents-killed-in-aleppo/

       This one has interesting points
       **http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/15/the_politically_incorrect_guide_to_us_interests_in_the_middle_east
       • Populuxe1 9.1.1.1

         1 October 2012 at 12:03 am

         I was reasonably pleased with McCully’s response on Syria and Israel/Palestine. I don’t think the latter was Sarah Palinish at all – perhaps a little flat-footed in a plain-spoken way, but not actually idiotic a la Palin.
     • Grumpy 9.1.2

       30 September 2012 at 3:29 pm

       Perhaps they needed to get McCully out of the country so Trev could have an uninterupted couple of days with Murray’s ex girlfriend?
       • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.1

         30 September 2012 at 4:32 pm

         😎
   • Jokerman 9.2

     30 September 2012 at 7:27 pm

     Murray McCully is a non-entity
10. Dv 10

    30 September 2012 at 11:24 am

    I DO NOT accept Keys apology about the govt behavior in the dot come fiasco.
    • Dr Terry 10.1

      30 September 2012 at 5:06 pm

      Dy – the point is that Key DID NOT apologise for himself, he generously apologised for his own minions!
11. Dave Kennedy 11

    30 September 2012 at 11:37 am

    Her Tui Billboards are surrounded by neon lights!
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/hekia-parata-is-listeningyeah-right.html
    • Dv 11.1

      30 September 2012 at 11:48 am

      This is an earlier blog by Dave that is worth reading as well about the way the ministry treated Moera school in the north over ‘poor’ NCEA result.

      http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/lesley-longstone-management-style.html
      • prism 11.1.1

        30 September 2012 at 2:54 pm

        DV 11.1 (By the way its Moerewa spell it right.)

        Thanks Dv – good blog from Local Bodies. This quote from Dv link at 11.1

        In the days when the Education Ministry was a Department, and had less political interference, it was managed by some astute and forward thinking individuals. Clarence Beeby and Bill Renwick were hugely instrumental in shaping the philosophies and pedagogical approach that led us to being one of the top education systems in the world.

        That has all changed. We now have imports that haven’t the excuse of being cheap – Lesley Longstone recently in the news because of the shakeup of our school system is said to be receiving $600,000 p.a. You can’t help thinking that we have a cringe factor alive and well in NZ that we can’t find suitable candidates for such positions. And those working their way up in a Department with consequent institutional knowledge are likely to be elbowed out during some internecine change and so we lose our experienced people who care about NZ and get these moving generic managers who make us bow and scrape to their supposedly superior knowledge. (Must be, they’re from overseas you know.)

        Here is some info on Ms Longstone. If you want source get it yourself, I’m tired.
        “Lesley Longstone has 25 years’ experience in the education and employment sectors in the United Kingdom, Europe and Australia, and she understands the economic importance of education and its contribution to the broader skills agenda.
        Ms Longstone has a Bachelor of Science from the University of Sheffield.
        • Jokerman 11.1.1.1

          30 September 2012 at 7:52 pm

          Good Work P.; freakin Philistines!
12. Colonial Viper 12

    30 September 2012 at 11:40 am

    Ed Milliband, UK Labour Leader: Either the banking sector makes sweeping changes or we will force bank break ups

    Frakkin’A. This is what we are talking about people. However, the City of London financial centre holds such vast political power and influence in the UK, I hope Milliband can stay the course.

    By the way, it is no co-incidence that the Lehman collapse, Bernie Madoff’s multi-billion dollar ponzi scheme, the massive theft from MF Global account holders, near infinite leverage/shadow rehypothecation collateral rorts and many more frauds originated in City of London financial operating centres.

    Ed Miliband will make his boldest, most controversial policy commitment since becoming Labour leader on Sunday when he pledges to force the break-up of Britain’s biggest banks unless they agree to revolutionise their operations and put ordinary customers first.

    In an interview with the Observer, the Labour leader says he will confront the City of London with what is seen as the nuclear option for reform if the banks fail to separate their “casino” investment operations from services to account-holders, savers and businesses.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/sep/29/ed-miliband-british-banks
    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      30 September 2012 at 3:44 pm

      What they really need to so is to stop the banks creating money. Do that and they’ll collapse all by themselves.
      • Jokerman 12.1.1

        30 September 2012 at 7:54 pm

        Excellent Viper
13. weka 13

    30 September 2012 at 12:19 pm

    It’s not daylight savings this weekend is it? The clock on my computer has gone forward an hour but it uses an international clock and I’m not sure they’ve been right since the govt changed the date of DST and didn’t tell the rest of the world. 
    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      30 September 2012 at 12:25 pm

      Yep it is, clocks moved forward at 2am.
      • weka 13.1.1

        30 September 2012 at 12:27 pm

        Thanks. Are they tying that to the last weekend in Sept?
        • weka 13.1.1.1

          30 September 2012 at 12:29 pm

          I suppose it’s a chance to reset all the clocks to the same time. I use five digital clocks and they all end up out of sync within 2 or 3 weeks. The computer is the only true one because it resets when I go online. Did time used to be this odd when we had analog clocks?
          • Colonial Viper 13.1.1.1.1

            30 September 2012 at 12:49 pm

            I’m perturbed that you’re finding that with your digital clocks. There is absolutely no reason for even a cheap digital clock to gain or lose more than 1 minute a month, and that is being generous.

            I’d blame sloppy cheap electronics design or componentry. A good quality quartz mechanical watch will often perform to +/- 2 minutes per year.
            • weka 13.1.1.1.1.1

              30 September 2012 at 1:40 pm

              yeah I find it weird myself. One is a cheapo clock but there is a cell phone and car stereo both of a decent enough quality to keep time properly.
              • Jokerman …

                30 September 2012 at 7:56 pm

                personally, i do not wear a watch. Time 🙂

                and Being (emancipate ourselves)
14. Jackal 14

    30 September 2012 at 12:44 pm

    No excuse for police perjury

    Grant Wormald didn’t just give evidence that was inconsistent; he clearly perjured himself in a court of law. He said to his knowledge there was no other agencies involved in the surveillance of Mr Dotcom, knowing full well that the GCSB was involved. In fact he attended a meeting on December 14 with GCSB operatives. For him to say he wasn’t aware of their involvement is an obvious lie, made under oath, and the Detective Inspector should be held to account…
    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 14.1

      30 September 2012 at 12:48 pm

      …and if he was ordered to lie, then that is a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
      • Jackal 14.1.1

        30 September 2012 at 1:03 pm

        Ouch! Duck and fucking cover John Key.
        • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1

          30 September 2012 at 1:12 pm

          Ouch indeed. Big blast zone on this one.
          • David H 14.1.1.1.1

            30 September 2012 at 2:25 pm

            So now its the weekend and still no earthshaking distractions for Shonky to hide behind, He has got to working with Bennet on something, as Parata is now a liability.
        • BloodyOrphan 14.1.1.2

          30 September 2012 at 1:25 pm

          At this point I’d be inclined to bring an Army General in to arbitrate it all.

          There’s too much confusion about the command structure and what can and can’t be said.

          If these men are indeed playing “Board Room” games, then as u say we have a very serious problem.
        • BloodyOrphan 14.1.1.3

          30 September 2012 at 1:40 pm

          About the best thing they could start with would be a “Closed Door” meeting with the captain of those men, and yeah I mean you bud.
          If they know the ground you were walking they can direct their efforts properly.
          Otherwise they can’t target the people in question.
          (Understandably reticent I’d imagine ur response too be, but think about it, it may help
          From the sound of things the two Geoffs from Labour and Cunliffe would be the men to talk too)
          The problem is obviously at the top, and the only way to find the top is to start at the bottom.
          (No Offense Brother)
      • Treetop 14.1.2

        30 September 2012 at 1:20 pm

        Nothing has changed in 35 years when it comes to cops committing perjury in court as the police have not been made accountable even after Chief Justice Elias from the Supreme Court has become involved. An effing joke.
      • Poission 14.1.3

        30 September 2012 at 4:15 pm

        The Nuremberg defence has substantive problems both for Wormald and his boss.

        If he invokes the ND he (Knowing it was incorrect) he still could have made a moral judgement, hence it only limits the remedies.The other part is it transfers accountability up the food chain (it increases the value of remedies to his superiors)
        • BloodyOrphan 14.1.3.1

          30 September 2012 at 4:24 pm

          Exaclty, the buck stops with Key if he uses that defence.
15. BloodyOrphan 15

    30 September 2012 at 2:25 pm

    More code snipets I remembered for LPRent …

    While( true ) {
    for( *var=*inVar; *var!=’ ‘; var++){ … } /*simple word finder */
    }

    switch( true ) {
    case( *var=='<' && (*var+1=='a' ||*var+1=='A') : /*A Tag*/
    { … }
    default: /* Anything else */
    { … }
    }
16. BloodyOrphan 16

    30 September 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Fastest code in the West babe 🙂
    Machine code ‘C’ if ya lookin for name.
    Use a var to trigger the Daemon break…
    if( brkVar ) break;
    }
    Remember 0 it true
    • BloodyOrphan 16.1

      30 September 2012 at 2:55 pm

      Which means if( var==0 ) {} runs faster than if( var==1 ) {}

      1 = voltage = heat = slower cylcles in cpu/memory

      And if you don’t have “True” use 1 i.e while(1) {}
17. muzza 17

    30 September 2012 at 2:42 pm

    All you Aucklanders enjoying the almost exclusively chemical skies today…go on, step outside, take a look up, and ponder the marvel that is the “clouds” up there today…Notice the textures and the shapes, really not quite right are they…

    Oh, and yes I took the footage of the plane dumping over AKL again today at midday, heading south, right over the middle of the city…

    Thats three times I have seen it, and twice I have filmed it. Someone on this island knows WTF is going on!
    • muzza 17.1

      30 September 2012 at 3:51 pm

      And at 320pm, just seen and filmed the return leg of the spray plane, was out over the Waitemata Harbour heading north.

      I can’t have been the only Aucklander on here to have seen this today, its that bloody obvious…
      • Anne 17.1.1

        30 September 2012 at 7:26 pm

        Yes I saw a narrow elongated ‘cloud’ over the North Shore – must have been around 2.30 -3.00pm. Took it to be the ragged remains of a contrail probably at around 20,000 ft.

        I know an Air NZ flight captain (the partner of a family member) and was tempted to contact him for a bit of a razz… you’ve been dumping fuel have you?
18. marty mars 18

    30 September 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Hey muzza which theory do you subscribe to

    to dumb down
    to reduce libido
    other
    • muzza 18.1

      30 September 2012 at 3:09 pm

      Hey Marty, the only “theory” I subscribe to about it, is that somethings going on, we are not being told “in public” at least. I prefer to take the most obvious about a situation, which is, there is something being sprayed in our skies, only complete idiots would contest that now. The what and why, become the obvious next questions, and there is lots of stuff which can assist with that. Ive not done any lab tests etc so wont speculate on those….

      I have filmed the planes 2 times now, and that is not any commercial arline route on a sunday. Just checked the official commercial routes again and times of arrivals and departures at Wellington and Christchurch today that might mean a flight heading southerly direction at such height could return on, and nothing would match, again this time either!

      If you could see the sky up here today, even the hardest skeptic , would be doing well to explain the state of AKL’s skies!
      • marty mars 18.1.1

        30 September 2012 at 3:50 pm

        I struggle with this one mainly because of explanations that are based on someone/group doing it to us for their sinister ends – but those ends, that I have heard, don’t make sense. Maybe I’m just not mad enough to comprehend their madness 🙂
        • muzza 18.1.1.1

          30 September 2012 at 3:58 pm

          Marty it need not be sinister in nature, but whatever they are doing, the results/expectations, may or may not be understood. They are spraying shit into the sky, and if you could see Auckland today you would know exactly what I am talking about, and if you saw what I saw, its likely the only way people can understand. I was not skeptical, but before I saw the planes, wondered if there was a simpple explantion, now having seen them so many times, and filmed it, there is not a shred of doubt they are spraying.

          I hope you never see them down your way dude!

          See my comment about the 320pm return srpay leg, and I have taken film and pics all afternoon from my area of AKL. The sky is an absolute mess of chemical shit today, grrrrr.

          EDIT @ Weka – I’m not going to upload them, as have no facility that I would want to use. The May 6 footage I took, I gave to someone to pass on, who posted it online.
          • marty mars 18.1.1.1.1

            30 September 2012 at 5:21 pm

            All good muzza, many have noted the same thing down here which is why I’ve heard a bit about it, and I’ve seen a few videos and seen them here and in Auckland. I’m not saying they aren’t true and I hope you crack it wide open – I just can’t work out any type of ‘why’ that makes sense to me. I spose I put it to one side really and concentrate on stuff like the proposed open cast mine on the Denniston Plateau, it feels like I might be able to work with others and stop that atrocity – not sure I can say the same about the spraying. Kia kaha.
            • muzza 18.1.1.1.1.1

              30 September 2012 at 5:32 pm

              Hey Marty, good on you with the mines and things, locally we all definitely can get “hands on” so to speak, and hands on, is whats required, not just at the keyboard either 😉

              Kia kaha to you too bro
          • felix 18.1.1.1.2

            30 September 2012 at 5:40 pm

            muzza, I don’t understand your reason for not uploading these pictures.

            Can you explain the problem? I’m sure someone here will help.
            • muzza 18.1.1.1.2.1

              30 September 2012 at 5:59 pm

              Hi Felix, I didn’t give a reason – Ill most likely forward todays stuff on again for posting, same as I did with the May 6 footage.

              I wont have been the only person in AKL who saw it today, from your posts your not in AKL??
              • felix …

                30 September 2012 at 6:25 pm

                No not in AKL but have seen some interesting stuff in the sky here too. Is the May 6 footage still online somewhere we can see it?
                • muzza …

                  30 September 2012 at 6:42 pm

                  Edit: Just google or youtube search Auckland chemtrails, you will find some stuff
                  • felix …

                    30 September 2012 at 7:00 pm

                    ta
              • weka …

                30 September 2012 at 8:39 pm

                Sorry muzza, but it’s not good enough. Fair enough that you have concerns, but without accessible evidence it’s all just another conspiracy theory. I have no interest in watching 2 minutes of the Auckland sky without any context or explanation. Someone needs to put together some credible information and present it in ways that people can read and understand. Not saying that has to be you, but I don’t really see the point in speculating about phenomena without any useful analysis that is backed up by evidence. Or at least not scarey phenomena. It just makes people worry but gives them nowhere to go.
                • muzza …

                  1 October 2012 at 8:46 am

                  No need to apologise for yourself Weka., I can understand your position, as I too would also like to know why planes are spraying, because the question has gone past, perhaps thats whats going on.

                  Why do you & others keep saying that someone should put together, and there is no evidence, there is plenty out there from all around the world Weka, what would you consider evidence or a well put togther case, over an above what is already being done…

                  Certainly I would agree that without seeing the planes for oneself, seeing what is coming from the planes are obvioulsy NOT vapour (con) trails, then seeing the clear blue day that was AKL yesterday, and on May 6, turning into a mesh of god knows what, followed by the predictable shit weather.

                  Perhaps there is nothing in it Weka, I can’t say either way, all I am saying is that I know what I saw, and have seen, and what it did to our days on May 6 and yesterday.

                  If what I post panics you, then don’t read it, and if you are not up to doing some reading etc about geo-enginerring, then youre not in any position to say there is no evidence or that someone should put some together!

                  Kia kaha
                  • weka …

                    1 October 2012 at 12:31 pm

                    The problem muzza is that most information presented about chemtrails is done so by either whackjobs or people who have almost zero critical thinking skills. I have an appreciation for whackjobs in society but they’re not people I go to for facts. People with very poor critical thinking skills bother me more, because they use the internet to push their ill formed ideas in ways that don’t help much and probably do some damage. 

                    I don’t consider you to be either of those two things, and have been interested in your story of what you see in the skies (have read previous threads), but until you present some evidence it’s just an interesting story.

                    I’m not panicked by the chemtrail stuff, just pissed off at how it gets debated. We have enough stressful shit to deal with on the planet at the moment without adding to the load with information that is designed to alarm but has no back up. 

                    “if you are not up to doing some reading etc about geo-enginerring, then youre not in any position to say there is no evidence or that someone should put some together!”

                    I disagree. Part of critical thinking is learning who to trust and why. I don’t have to understand every phenomena on the planet to such detail because I have the skills to read people who do have that detail and I can sift out the wheat from the chaff. That’s on both sides of an argument (I can point you to poor thinking on both sides of the Ken Ring debate for instance). 

                    I also tend to not trust people who only reference youtube. Video is a good way of getting a message across, but it’s generally a crap way of providing verifiable evidence (not least because it can’t reference easily).

                    And I definitely have low opinion of websites that use obvious propoganda tecniques. This site, which pops up number one in google for ‘chemtrail’ is classic

                    http://chemtrailsnorthnz.wordpress.com/opinions-regarding-the-functions-of-chemtrailsstratospheric-aerosol-geoengineering/

                    It’s designed to appeal to people who think of themselves as woken up (the big banner), and to hook in other people by using emotive fearmongering. I’m much less likely to take something seriously that feels the need to SHOUT AT ME how stupid I am if I don’t believe what it says.

                    It’s also hard to take anything seriously that purports that human-made CC has been ‘exposed as a hoax’. Whatever one thinks about CC, ‘exposed as a hoax’ ain’t what’s been happening, and that phrase suggests that the website people don’t have a very good understanding of science or the politics of science.

                    That website also considers that a high number of google hits = proof of theory. That’s just stupid.

                    If the chemtrail crowd want to be taken seriously, how hard would it be to put up a website that explains the issues in a clear, rational way that lay people can understand?
                     

                     
      • weka 18.1.2

        30 September 2012 at 3:52 pm

        Are you going to put the video and details up online?
        • muzza 18.1.2.1

          1 October 2012 at 1:10 pm

          I also tend to not trust people who only reference youtube.

          Weka, which way to you want it? – Asking me if I am going to post the video online but don’t trust people who post on YT. I would be happy to send you the raw footage if you like, but again its still my video with no context for you, because you were not here, and not see what was happening with your own eyes.

          I do tend to agree with you, that seeing video gives little context, which is why I DONT post what I have, because its very easy for people to blow it off, as you have been doing. My contention is not to state what is going on, I can’t do that, because I don’t know for sure what they are spraying, only that I have seen, and filmed the spraying multiple times now, that I fly planes, and have spent most of my life looking at the sky, and that our skies have changed in a way that I can’t believe people in AKL do not notice!

          You’re not in AKL either obviously, as otherwise you would have some more specific comments on my posts, and I notice that there was no response from anyone in AKL, (not that it means anything in hard terms, it would be good to hear other locals thoughts – If they saw it).

          Out of interst, how do you develop your sense of who/what you can trust? – Here is a tip, if you think you can develop it as a skill, you don’t have it naturally, which has its limitations. Sure you will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff, the critical thinking and general intelligence will assist there, but instinctively there will always be a gap.

          I’ll check the website out, i’ve not heard of it.
          • weka 18.1.2.1.1

            1 October 2012 at 10:09 pm

            Muzza, I said I tend not to trust people who only reference youtube. And gave valid reasons why. This doesn’t mean video isn’t useful, just that it’s not usually in and of itself proof in situations like this.

            I’m not in Auckland, hence my original question about posting your footage online. I really don’t know what you are talking about and the visuals would be interesting if you can post a comparison with what you think are not chemtrails.

             My contention is not to state what is going on, I can’t do that, because I don’t know for sure what they are spraying, only that I have seen, and filmed the spraying multiple times now, that I fly planes, and have spent most of my life looking at the sky, and that our skies have changed in a way that I can’t believe people in AKL do not notice!

            Yes, I’m aware that you are trying to just describe what you see, rather than post theory about what is going on and why. It’s one of the reasons I read what you write on this.

            But if you keep doing that repeatedly without any further support people will get bored or annoyed and switch off. How will that help?

            “(not that it means anything in hard terms, it would be good to hear other locals thoughts – If they saw it).”

            You could for instance get methodical. Open a wordpress blog, without all the conspiracy dramatics, and post your observations and photos/stills. Ask Aucklanders to join you, and post what they are seeing. Give them times and directions of where to look. Moderate heavily to keep out the conspiracy theory stuff. Write short, easily accessible pieces about why you think x plane is doing y activity, and what is unusual about it. Likewise, post about the differences you are seeing the sky compared to 5 years ago, 10, 20 etc.
             
      • Draco T Bastard 18.1.3

        30 September 2012 at 11:59 pm

        Or you could just with basic physics:

        I have never (and that means never EVER) seen any quantified evidence that would demonstrate that any CONTRAIL that appears in the sky is anything more than a normally over-expanded jet exhaust operating in an atmospheric area where the water density is already high (almost saturated), and the passing of the jet engine through that atmospheric condition has caused the high water density to be condensed into visible exhaust plumes.

        That would be atmosphere that resembles Auckland’s most of the friggen time.
19. Colonial Viper 19

    30 September 2012 at 6:36 pm

    A “broad church”: we’ll make room for both Right Wing voters and Left Wing voters inside Labour

    Great that’s been finally cleared up.

    Mr Shearer said the party was doing well. “But will we have some changes later on? Quite possibly” he said. He wouldn’t say whether that would be before the end of the year. He said he disagreed with the claim earlier this year by Economic Development spokesman, David Cunliffe that voters who deserted Labour did so because they party’s policies as not very different to National’s.

    However he said there was room for Mr Cunliffe inside Labour because it was “a broad church”.

    “There are many people who vote Labour from what you might call left and to the right as well.

    “It’s a broad church and what we’re looking for is to be a party for all New Zealanders, not just one of the other.”

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/shearer-hints-front-bench-shake-ck-129842
    • Jokerman 19.1

      30 September 2012 at 8:03 pm

      Very Sad.
      ” I’ll publish right or wrong: Fools are my theme, let satire be my song.”
      -Byron
20. Jokerman 20

    30 September 2012 at 8:08 pm

    “What all the wise men have promised, has not happened, and what all the damn fools said would happen has come to pass”
    -Lamb (ironically enough)
21. Jokerman 21

    30 September 2012 at 8:17 pm

    “Thus hath the candle singed the moth. Oh, these deliberate fools!”
    -The Merchant of Venice

    “And all our yesterdays have lighted fools”
    -Measure for Measure

    “oh this ship of fools”
    -Bob Seger
22. Lloyd 22

    30 September 2012 at 8:29 pm

    Since the present lowering of crime rates can be connected to better social services and education provided to today’s teenagers over the period of the last Labour government, I am unfortunately confident in predicting rising crime levels in about five years or so as the rejected primary school children of today hit their teenage years under the punitive benefit and education policies of our wonderful present government. One can only hope the crime will hurt those presently benefiting from the low tax rates for the rich introduced by the same government, but crime always hurts the poor before it hurts those with big walls and money to hire security guards.

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