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Open mike 30/10/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 30th, 2012 - 160 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

160 comments on “Open mike 30/10/2012 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    30 October 2012 at 6:23 am

    Speaking the words might mean – having to address them

    Latest report on Hurricane Sandy from stuff.co.nz

    Largest in US history

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/7875891/Monster-Hurricane-Sandy-gathers-strength

    Scattered through the report;

    Words like, monster, monstrous, largest, major, rare, hybrid, exceptional, severe, historic, life threatening, not typical, superstorm, megastorm, mass evacuations.

    From the president down, not one mention of the two words at the back of everyone’s mind

    Talk about self censorship

    • muzza 1.1
      30 October 2012 at 7:17 am

      From the president down, not one mention of the two words at the back of everyone’s mind

      Weather Modification

      Agreed Jenny, its most likely not something they are not too keen to bring attention to, in case people start asking tough questions!

      Right on election time, boom, a storm like never seen before, almost like someone was writing a script!

        • One Tāne Huna 1.1.1.1
          30 October 2012 at 7:25 am

          Nope, he means that the weather is a massive global conspiracy, perpetrated by Bill Gates and the US military.

          Sad but true.

          • muzza 1.1.1.1.1
            30 October 2012 at 7:42 am

            Yes weather modification has been a stated goal by the DoD, and military dating back many decades now, and countries around the world make use of “weather control” in various ways.

            Sad is not even having the stomach or mental strength to read what has been mainstream information about the subject for many years Bloke. There is plenty of details around, they were at it generations back, so like with all technologies, as time progresses, so do the techniques!

            • One Tāne Huna 1.1.1.1.1.1
              30 October 2012 at 7:44 am

              Which means that the storm currently affecting New York has been created deliberately, or that you are delusional.

              PS: finding your delusions ridiculous ≠ a measure of my “stomach or mental strength”. That’s simply your ego lashing out 😀

              • muzza …
                30 October 2012 at 7:50 am

                There is every chance that it has been, sure, because the technologies/techniques exist to do so.

                Edit: Dude you are an unoriginal parrot! If you think its clever mocking something, which has been written about, published on and happening for decades, then thats your choice!

                Just don’t go parroting your weakness back in my direction!

                • One Tāne Huna …
                  30 October 2012 at 7:56 am

                  If you think your opinions are a reasonable summation of that “which has been written about, published on and happening for decades”, what does that say about me?

                  PS: “A reasonable chance”???? ROFLMAO

                  • McFlock …
                    30 October 2012 at 2:03 pm

                    Oh come one oth, HAARP has obviously been hijacked by aliens in revenge for their spaceship that was shot down in 1947 outside Roswell…

                    • One Tāne Huna …
                      31 October 2012 at 9:04 am

                      Shit! I’d forgotten them. Where do you suppose the Buzz Aldrin cabal fit in? Will they form an uneasy alliance with HAARP to repel the common enemy?

                    • McFlock …
                      31 October 2012 at 3:35 pm

                      I think that’s a good possibility. The illuminati have grown too powerful for either to tolerate them after their use of an antimatter bomb to destroy London during the Olympics. Luckily TBTP managed to cover it up as a fireworks display.

                    • One Tāne Huna …
                      31 October 2012 at 3:47 pm

                      “The lunatic is all idée fixe, and whatever he comes across confirms his lunacy. You can tell him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars.”
                      ― Umberto Eco, Foucault’s Pendulum

      • Pascal's bookie 1.1.2
        30 October 2012 at 8:30 am

        Right on election time, boom, a storm like never seen before, almost like someone was writing a script!

        Oh ffs.

        What’s the theory here?

        I thought you believed that the elections themselves don’t matter, b/c TBTB win either way. So why would they be bothering with engineering a massive storm, in ways unnoticed by everyone, in order to achieve, what?

        You’re a parody of yourself muzza.

        • felix 1.1.2.1
          30 October 2012 at 8:54 am

          Who knows why TPTB do these things, Pb. The other day we had a massive downpour just as I was about to paint the shed, as if someone was writing a script. It’s amazing, the granular level these plans can get down to.

          • One Tāne Huna 1.1.2.1.1
            30 October 2012 at 8:59 am

            It’s not all bad, though – I needed to get some washing dry and it was sunny! Thanks TPTB!

            • McFlock 1.1.2.1.1.1
              30 October 2012 at 2:04 pm

              I thought I’d lost my wallet, but TPTB had just put it in my other coat. Bastards.

              • One Tāne Huna …
                30 October 2012 at 5:13 pm

                I think you’ll find that was the Underpants Gnomes. Credit where it’s due.

                1. Put McFlock’s wallet in other coat.
                2. ???
                3. Profit!!!

        • muzza 1.1.2.2
          30 October 2012 at 9:06 am

          Elections don’t matter PB, not overall in any case, I’m sure you might be able to string that together, and think experimentation, as opposed to theory eh!

          My contention is simply that there exists the technology, and the stated desire to “control weather”, “weather modify”, or whatever you prefer to call it, and has been going on a long time.

          The fact that the “largest storm in US history” fantastically arrives in time for elections, may simply just be “the storm of a century”, but because technologies and stated desire exist, surely the question has to be asked, just what is this “franken-storm”!

          Felix – Shame about your shed, if suns out today, perhaps get some exercise, and put some elbow into it!

          • One Tāne Huna 1.1.2.2.1
            30 October 2012 at 9:11 am

            Don’t feed the Tar Baby.

          • Pascal's bookie 1.1.2.2.2
            30 October 2012 at 9:18 am

            The fact that the “largest storm in US history” fantastically arrives in time for elections, may simply just be “the storm of a century”, but because technologies and stated desire exist, surely the question has to be asked, just what is this “franken-storm”!

            Maybe because the elections are always the Tuesday after the first Monday in November, and late October / early November is a storm season?

            http://www.weather.com/news/fall-expectations-20120915?pageno=8

            • One Tāne Huna 1.1.2.2.2.1
              30 October 2012 at 9:20 am

              That explains the timing of the elections: to give TPTB cover for their weaponised storms 😉

            • Lanthanide 1.1.2.2.2.2
              30 October 2012 at 9:38 am

              It’s a dumb theory anyway. If they wanted to disrupt the elections, it should be arriving next Tuesday, not this Tuesday.

              I guess weather modification is more art than science at the moment.

          • TheContrarian 1.1.2.2.3
            30 October 2012 at 12:00 pm

            Really? Weather modification?

            Every fucking time there is an earthquake or a storm the conspiracy theorists scream:
            CHEMTRAILS/HAARP/WEATHERMODIFICATION/TINHFOILHAT/NWO!

            Storms and earthquakes can happen without human intervention

            • Te Reo Putake 1.1.2.2.3.1
              30 October 2012 at 12:10 pm

              This storm probably is the result of human intervention, though, TC, because climate change is going to make/is already making these events a regular occurence.

              Totes agree re: the tinfoil hat brigade. Blaming everything on a worldwide conspiracy is a great excuse for both intellectual and physical laziness.

              • TheContrarian …
                30 October 2012 at 12:13 pm

                “This storm probably is the result of human intervention, though, TC, because climate change is going to make/is already making these events a regular occurence.”

                Storms were already a regular occurence and this one is so dangerous because it is hitting to other fronts and it is hitting at high tide, neither of which have to do with climate change. Climate change probably does have a part to play but in this instance there are other factors which have nothing to do with AWG which make this a very dangerous storm.

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  30 October 2012 at 12:42 pm

                  I believe you are wrong, TC. The frequency and intensity of these storms are both increasing, as most climate change models predict.

                  The high tide thing is a red herring. Obviously the storm is going to last through the full daily cycle of tides and its effects will be worse at the high tide, but that’s not significant.

                  I think the weird thing about this situation is that Obama cannot say ‘sorry folks, if we want to live like pigs, then this is what happens’ because it allows the Republicans to use the climate change stick to hit him with and it changes the dynamic of the election. Obama has chosen to keep quiet on the possible link to climate change and he will ride out this storm, and will be trying to look as Presidential as possible as he tours the damaged suburbs tomorrow.

                • One Tāne Huna …
                  30 October 2012 at 12:58 pm

                  Warmer air holds more moisture, therefore 100% of the weather is affected by AGW.

                  Moreover, Hansen and Sato’s Climate Dice are increasingly loaded.

                  Whether or not this particular (“Frankenstorm”) occurrence could not have happened without AGW, it’s clear from actual observations (not models) that extreme outliers are happening with increasing frequency.

                  Which, funnily enough, is pretty much what the models predicted. Blow me down with a feather.

                • lprent …
                  30 October 2012 at 1:18 pm

                  In this case the problem was a cold jet stream that oscillated further south than usual and hitting a equatorial born hurricane. The reason for that happening is the increased energy in the system – especially the heightened arctic temperatures.

                  It has been pretty predictable for a few decades that if you increase arctic temperatures you will wind up with increased temperature gradients further south in the Atlantic. Measurements over the last decade have shown that is indeed what has been happening at a statistically significant level. Weather is powered by temperature gradients and moisture. So increasing the gradients by having polar and equatorial weather systems colliding and providing more moisture from warmer equatorial seas is going to give bigger and more powerful storms.

                  This is what earth scientists mean when they say that increased retention of energy causes an increase in the frequency of ‘extreme’ weather events.

                  Storms were already a regular occurence and this one is so dangerous because it is hitting to other fronts and it is hitting at high tide, neither of which have to do with climate change.

                  It is hitting on several ‘fronts’ because it is a bloody big storm with a lot of energy (about 1600km’s or so in diameter from what I hear). It is several times bigger than the usual hurricanes because of the temperature gradient. This means that it hits a lot of coastline. Of course high tides happen several times per day and at different times in different locations over a few thousand kms of coastline. The probability of a big storm hitting somewhere at high tide is remarkably high – in fact damn near certain.

                  Are you really as much of a fool about basic science, geography and stats as you seem?

                  I’d expect to see several of this level of storm over the next decade and some nasty winter weather up north because of the rate at which the arctic is melting. Especially over the next few years because of el-nino and the solar max pushing more heat around. The north will get an increasing frequency of these types of storms and especially in the narrow Atlantic. The previous storm at this level was in the 30’s and I think you have to look deep into the 19th to see anything similar.

                  This type of storm and crazy winters will be pretty normal in a few decades in the north america and northern europe.

                  • TheContrarian …
                    30 October 2012 at 1:29 pm

                    “Are you really as much of a fool about basic science, geography and stats as you seem?”

                    you fucking nitwit. It’s good to see moderators laying down totally out of blue insults on others for no apparent reason.

                    Asshole.

                    • lprent …
                      30 October 2012 at 1:38 pm

                      I wasn’t doing it as a moderator. That is usually pretty noticeable because it looks like

                      [lprent: notes ]

                      As well as being a moderator I frequently comment. I tend to get quite acidic on people misrepresenting on topics I know well.

                      I particularly like educating about basic earth sciences (my first degree) in a way that is memorable when people say something quite stupid. It helps to reduce my pain at seeing them mangling simple heat exchanges with meaningless explanations.

                      But you notice the fulsome explanation that I provided about exactly why you were making particularly idiotic and indefensible assertions?

                      Perhaps you should read it. It might help you in avoiding my irritation

                    • TheContrarian …
                      30 October 2012 at 1:42 pm

                      So what was it I said that was stupid?

                      I never denied AGW, I never denied AGW had a part to play in this storm, I accepted AGW makes storm more intense, I accepted the AGW caused this storm to move further North, I commented that the two fronts this system is to hit makes it more dangerous than other storms, I commented that both these cold fronts were part of normal weather patterns, I made note of the high tide which increases the danger of storm surges.

                      Come on, old wolf.

                      Show me where my misrepresentation is

                    • lprent []
                      30 October 2012 at 2:18 pm

                      The bit that caught my eye was the section that I quoted.

                      The reason why the two “fronts”* were colliding was precisely because of the increased energy from melting in the Arctic is pushing cold jetstreams further south. The tropical hurricanes have probably been getting more energetic (not statistically significant yet) in the water borne heat that drives them from slightly warmer tropical seas. But that just increases the energy available and possibly slightly increases their range.

                      firstly: The shift in the arctic jetstreams has been proven to a statistically significant level over the last few years. Exceptional storms like this one are therefore increasingly more likely. If they hadn’t collided then all other factors (tides etc) are largely irrelevant because the hurricane would have been pretty normal and largely spent before hitting the US continental shores.

                      secondly: Large storms hit large amounts of shore over quite a long period of time. Statistically they will have high tides across a lot of those stores. It isn’t a coincidence that high tides coincide with large storms hitting shore. What would be more surprising if they did not.

                      Your statement was absurdly reductionist and tried to treat factors as seperate and coincidental. They aren’t. They are quite predictable to come together in this combination now that the Arctic jetstreams are moving further south. Read the links.

                      * Actually it is a high altitude dry cold oscillating jetstream and a lower altitude warm and water laden cyclonic storm extending into the jetstreams altitude causing condensation and a massive release of energy from water. It is not two “fronts”

                    • higherstandard …
                      30 October 2012 at 2:06 pm

                      Lynn is not an asshole.

                      He is a cunt.

                      [lprent: I’d hate to think what you are using that analogy. A burst appendix? Something else that is pretty damn pointless and appears to be an evolutionary dead end. ]

                    • TheContrarian …
                      30 October 2012 at 2:27 pm

                      I never stated it was a coincidence, I stated that the hurricane is hitting at a high tide which makes the storm surge much greater…not too mention a full moon which is a bad coincidence because high tides are much higher (admittedly this was missed in the original comment but what I was meant to be implying).

                      Also there are these fronts hitting at same time as this hurricane which is also a bad news and makes the storm worse.

                      Those are the two points I made.

                      Neither of which deserved this response:

                      “Are you really as much of a fool about basic science, geography and stats as you seem?”

                      I made no denial of AGW or any denial AGW had any effect here but pointed out two factors that can happen outside of AGW therefore it isn’t a purely AGW causing this to be such a hectic storm.

                    • lprent …
                      30 October 2012 at 2:49 pm

                      Read my first reply carefully. I didn’t mention AGW at all.

                      I just talked about the consequences of increased Arctic temperatures. Something that you appear to either be diverting away from or too dumb to follow (in the latter case why are you bothering to speak?).

                      Your other points are simple trivia. There is nothing exceptional or surprising in any of them. All of them will happen in this combination many times per year and frequently many times per month.

                      What is exceptional is the energy in this storm, and that the northerners are likely to get more of them because the Arctic is warmer. Now I’m aware that that is caused by AGW, however that wasn’t what I was rapping you over the head for.

                      You were trying to say that the severity of this storm was exceptional because of trivial effects. That was (to put it mildly) complete crap….

                      So if you’re quite finished attempting moronic diversions from what is actually interesting to your simplistic and incorrect “explanations”… Just find something that is less able to be demolished.

                      Otherwise I’d better do some work and finish this transformation matrix.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      30 October 2012 at 3:01 pm

                      “Read my first reply carefully. I didn’t mention AGW at all. I just talked about the consequences of increased Arctic temperatures. Something that you appear to either be diverting away from or too dumb to follow (in the latter case why are you bothering to speak?).”

                      Increased Arctic temperatures are not to do with AGW? Funny, I was sure they were. I am not diverting at all and your “too dumb” remark is just childish.
                      What a great example for a moderator you are.

                      “Your other points are simple trivia. There is nothing exceptional or surprising in any of them. All of them combine to happen in this combination many times per year and frequently many times per month.”

                      Really, a sizable Hurricane hitting a major coastline during a full-moon high-tide before careering into winter front’s from the South happens several times per month?

                      Fact remains I pointed to things which are making this bad storm worse, neither of which are trivial and nothing of which are factually incorrect.
                      You haven’t actually demolished anything except for any reason why anyone should hold any respect for you at all.

                    • lprent …
                      30 October 2012 at 3:48 pm

                      Increased Arctic temperatures are not to do with AGW? Funny, I was sure they were.

                      It isn’t relevant to the effects of elevated Arctic temperatures – which with it’s effect on Atlantic storms is of more immediate interest.

                      Really, a sizable Hurricane hitting a major coastline during a full-moon high-tide before careering into winter front’s from the South happens several times per month?

                      That happens several times per year. You should read up on the frequency of hurricanes from their Caribbean generation points (or are you solely interested in their effects on the US and Canada?). They usually hit other weather fronts and they usually cross high tides on one or more of the islands before dissipating in the Atlantic .

                      Exceptional tides can happen several times per month depending on orbits. Hurricanes frequently coincide with them.

                      None of that is exceptional. You can expect combinations like that every year. Whereas what this storm’s energy level is something that occurs normally with many decades between instances.

                      Fact remains I pointed to things which are making this bad storm worse, neither of which are trivial and nothing of which are factually incorrect.

                      And none of them in anyway compare to the effects of having a cold jetstream hitting the upper levels of a warm cyclone. They are quite simply trivial by comparison. You do the maths. It is like adding tritium to a fission bomb for its effects.

                      Relying on “facts” rather than actually understanding what they mean is really kind of stupid. Of course it is how you can construct an argument that sounds good but is spurious and has no substance – as millions of weak essays by schoolchildren and undergrads well demonstrate. Confuses those who don’t know better and usually gets a C or even a B-. But it is a rather weak reed to cling to if you ever have to defend it.

                      You haven’t actually demolished anything except for any reason why anyone should hold any respect for you at all.

                      As I said before, diversions when you can’t argue really are kind of stupid.

                      I have no interest in being ‘respected’, liked, or anything else. I run and maintain the site. When I have time and I’m interested in something I do enjoy debate on subjects with substance – but that seldom happens due to lack of time.

                      But I also enjoy being a complete arsehole (as HS puts it with bad spelling) when I see someone feeding a line of bullshit on a subject I’m interested in. It allows me to keep in practice while educating the inexperienced about what can happen. I wouldn’t get too upset about it. And you really should look at your personal defenses. Getting that upset about an opinion on your comments really does make you look like easy meat.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      30 October 2012 at 4:26 pm

                      Wow, not only an asshole but an arrogant cock too.

                    • lprent []
                      30 October 2012 at 5:36 pm

                      Ummm. I’m a science grad, ex-army, ex-factory manager, a Otago MBA, a hell of a hardcore programmer, occasional CTO or lead programmer or team leader when I can’t get out of it, and I’ve been around the net and it’s predecessors since about 1980. Why should I not know exactly where the limits to my knowledge and understanding are?

                      I’m not some inexperienced poseur – but they are somewhat easy to recognize..

                    • Daveosaurus …
                      30 October 2012 at 5:55 pm

                      “He is a cunt.”

                      … You fail basic biology forever.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      30 October 2012 at 10:22 pm

                      “Ummm. I’m a science grad, ex-army, ex-factory manager, a Otago MBA, a hell of a hardcore programmer, occasional CTO or lead programmer or team leader when I can’t get out of it, and I’ve been around the net and it’s predecessors since about 1980.”

                      You’re pretty cool, dude. I surprised you can even stand yourself, what with your complete misrepresentation of others and your seeming indifference to it because, hey. why should you care? After all you’re a ” science grad, ex-army, ex-factory manager, a Otago MBA, a hell of a hardcore programmer, occasional CTO or lead programmer or team leader when I can’t get out of it”

                      I also like the way you went “ummm” before detailing your inflated sense of authority as if I were to go “Oh shit, I didn’t realise what I was dealing with!”
                      The fact you even lay this down betrays a giant inferiority complex from someone who despite all this has achieved fuck all apart from being an asshole moderator who completely ignores his own rules while moderating because, in reality, his detailing this supposed experience is completely fucking meaningless to the comment at hand.
                      “I am ex-army therefore my comment is more important than yours!”

                      Get over yourself Princess…I’m sorry, Prentice. You’re a nobody. You’re a science grad? Big deal man, that doesn’t mean dick. John Key is a commerce grad, if he came here and said “Hey I am a commerce grad!” mean you’d give him credence? No, it wouldn’t. So your credential bashing is meaningless. Particularly when nothing I said was scientifically invalid and the circumstances of this storm including the fullmoon/high tides and coalescence with other storms have been roucdly considered as rather an extraordinary circumstances leading to the dubbing of Sandy as a “frankenstorm”.

                      Explain to me again how hurricane induced storm surges at the height of a highest tide during a full moon before hitting cold fronts happens several times a month?

                    • lprent []
                      30 October 2012 at 11:19 pm

                      Diversion. Boring – no new arguments. Reread my comments..

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      30 October 2012 at 11:26 pm

                      I thought these Right Wingers were all about achievement and taking personal responsibility in life.

                      Turns out they’re actually just a bunch of envious pull’m down, uh, cherubs.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      31 October 2012 at 9:28 am

                      I know what you mean CV, all I do is mention, like most of the weathermen and media were doing, that the full-moon high-tide and the convergence of winter cold fronts hitting this storm make it particularly dangerous and suddenly Prentice starts calling me names, questioning my intelligence, before asserting these conditions happen several times a month (without any evidence) and trying to bully me with his credentials all while telling me I am ‘easy meat’ for him to attack me based up something I said that was scientifically valid and something that, you know actually happened.

                      Just another right-winger trying to pull someone down

                    • lprent []
                      31 October 2012 at 2:53 pm

                      … before asserting these conditions happen several times a month (without any evidence)

                      You really are lacking in attention to detail. Reread what I wrote and what I was responding to rather than bawling your hurt…

                      What you said was

                      I stated that the hurricane is hitting at a high tide which makes the storm surge much greater…not too mention a full moon which is a bad coincidence because high tides are much higher (admittedly this was missed in the original comment but what I was meant to be implying).

                      What I said was that those conditions

                      All of them will happen in this combination many times per year and frequently many times per month.

                      High tides happen several times per day – read a chart of tides. Close moons* can happen several days per month – these give the peak tides you were trying to articulate about – look on the chart of tides for expected tide levels. In hurricane season there may be quite a few hurricanes per month – look at the list of hurricanes for the caribbean. You also mentioned cold fronts – which again are not uncommon during hurricane season – read any weather chart.

                      If you put it all together you will find that in most years there are hurricanes somewhere that get all those effects in some location. The combination you were specifying isn’t anything special. It is likely to happen several times during hurricane season – often in the same month. Just read ANY book about weather patterns in the Caribbean and eastern US seaboard.

                      * Full moons are not relevant – that is just reflection of light of the sun and really has little effect. However I suspected that with your usual level of inaccuracy, you were trying to articulate something about the effect on tides of the precession of the lunar orbit, or if you were somewhat more sophisticated (unlikely) and understood about solar tides.

                      The interesting things about Sandy were that it got pinned by a arctic jetstream and pushed into the New Jersey coast instead of dissipating out in the Atlantic. It had exceptional levels of rain/energy (in hurricanes they are somewhat synonymous) because of the warmer water conditions off the US coast and the interaction with the cold jetstream, and that it went so far north because of those exceptional energy levels.

                      My real point was that you have no real idea of what you were talking about. Consequently you were waffling about a whole pile of irrelevancies with regard to the storm that was Sandy and ignoring all of the exceptional bits. And you are somewhat sensitive about being called an idiot because you were being such a superficial waffler.

                      Get over it and do better.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      31 October 2012 at 5:20 pm

                      “Full moons are not relevant – that is just reflection of light of the sun and really has little effect.”

                      Not relevant? Just a reflection? Little effect?

                      Orly, science guy?

                      “When the moon is full or new, the gravitational pull of the moon and sun are combined. At these times, the high tides are very high and the low tides are very low. This is known as a spring high tide. Spring tides are especially strong tides (they do not have anything to do with the season Spring). They occur when the Earth, the Sun, and the Moon are in a line. The gravitational forces of the Moon and the Sun both contribute to the tides. Spring tides occur during the full moon and the new moon.”
                      http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides/

                      “In hurricane season there may be quite a few hurricanes per month – look at the list of hurricanes for the caribbean.”

                      Orly?
                      http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/E17.html

                      So, any stats on how many hit cold front’s while making land fall in the mid-Atlantic states?

                    • lprent []
                      31 October 2012 at 5:47 pm

                      It is an additive effect (and also happens on a new moon) and the solar tide is a LOT smaller than the lunar tide. Same site further down in the section on Proxigean Spring Tide :-

                      The Moon follows an elliptical path around the Earth which has a perigee distance of 356,400 kilometers, which is about 92.7 percent of its mean distance. Because tidal forces vary as the third power of distance, this little 8 percent change translates into 25 percent increase in the tide- producing ability of the Moon upon the Earth

                      The lunar inclination is also out of plane relative to the sun and the earth which also affects the tide levels more than the solar tide. And then of course there are the precession effects. – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon

                      They haven’t pointed out the relative levels of the effects, but it is pretty obvious if you ever look at the equations for gravitional attraction that he is referring to. While the sun is has immensely higher mass than the moon (and therefore has a much higher gravitational attraction), it is also immensely further away (so the tidal influence is only a fraction of the moon). So it’s tidal effects are only a fraction of those caused by the moon’s orbit or for that matter by something even more local like windspeed or shore geography.

                      Of course the solar tide can pull things higher. But it is a small additional effect compared to those from the moon’s orbit.

            • Urban Rascal 1.1.2.2.3.2
              30 October 2012 at 12:51 pm

              Can I clarify, are you questioning it’s existence

              I only ask because it does:
              http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=controlling-hurricanes

              1) it is currently only simulated science theory
              2) what possible reason would you have for creating a frankenstorm this size where the central path diverts around New York? Surely based on that theory you’d be looking for the biggest damage inducer.

              I’d go as far to say that even if the ability to effect hurricanes existed today it is far more likely that it could only be used divert weather.

              But regardless weather modification doesn’t really belong in that list above unless weaponised which is against the UN Charter, which tends to suggest it’s not so hocus-pocus that the UN saw fit to outlaw it in the 70’s.
              Whereas chemtrails/haarp/nwo are pretty far-out theories not based in reality.

              • One Tāne Huna …
                30 October 2012 at 2:12 pm

                You need a subscription to Scientific American to read that. The full version is here.

                It deals with theoretical computer simulations of “hurricane intervention” using as-yet non-existent technology and notes that “if meteorological control does turn out to work at some point in the future, it would raise serious political problems.”

                My emphasis.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.3
        30 October 2012 at 11:32 am

        I suggest you go and calculate how much energy it would take to create that storm.

      • Urban Rascal 1.1.4
        30 October 2012 at 11:33 am

        It irks me that on one hand many commentators on here will complain about the lack of truthful reporting in media regarding politics, climate change, police reports. And then act like there is no possibility of technologies that exist in theory and the lab being tested.

        Not to say there’s any correlation in this event as far as I would expect/hope/believe.
        But I can atleast fathom the idea.
        Why would you expect them to mention that in media but then expect the lies where Domestic politics is involved.

        Let me remind you that geo-engineering was a “conspiracy” not more than a few years ago. Now canada is charging someone with seeding the coastline with iron (or what ever the compound was).
        Weather modification would have huge benefits where food supply and agriculture was involved and in a peak oil century ofcourse it’ll be looked at. Look at the national geographic issue lately on colonising mars. We have people thinking of weather modification on completely foreign planets, but we wouldn’t be looking at it on our own??

        In my mind I fully expect Military and big business to be looking at it. The tech has existed since the 70’s. It would be prudent security and business sense to experiment with it. I remember reading that one kind of modification was trialled in asia to divert radiation from Fukishima.

        And I abhor people closing the book on scienctific theory. People like you thought it was impossible to put a man on the moon at one time.

        • McFlock 1.1.4.1
          30 October 2012 at 2:24 pm

          Given that teleportation and wormholes also  “exist in theory and the lab being tested”, should we then discuss the possibility that the military are also using those in some way?

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.4.1.1
            30 October 2012 at 11:29 pm

            They’re actively conducting such experiments in attempts to create “un-interceptable” communications systems, and who knows what else.

            • McFlock 1.1.4.1.1.1
              30 October 2012 at 11:57 pm

              Indeed. But there’s a major leap between the theory and putting forward as a rational suggestion that they have it up and running and are using it for nefarious purposes.

    • David H 1.2
      30 October 2012 at 8:45 am

      But no words like Climate change, Global Warming, These storms need warm water to breed.

    • Jenny 1.3
      30 October 2012 at 5:24 pm

      The two words are CLIMATE CHANGE

      Nice misdirection though, muzza

      Damn you for getting in first and making have to spell it out, like an idiot. This deliberate obfuscation it is enough to make me want to scratch my eyes out with frustration.

      Can’t you get it?

      We are in a fight for the survival of our civilisation and probably for a good part of humanity as well, And you make a stupid tinfoil hat claim of a conspiracy to upset the US election.

      Get a life.

      • muzza 1.3.1
        31 October 2012 at 7:35 am

        We are in a fight for the survival of our civilisation and probably for a good part of humanity as well, And you make a stupid tinfoil hat claim of a conspiracy to upset the US election.

        Jenny, civilizations come and go, thats just the way it is. Humanity has been under attack much longer than those of you on the CC bandwagon have been banging on about, and planet earth will most likely continue on, despite the best efforts of those to try and control our little part of the universe.

        Interesting to read some comments go from mocking, to conceding that there technologies have existed for decades to modify weather, but oh its a big leap to go from theory to practicle, as if those running such experiementation are going to broadcast it to the world, more than they already do!

        Perhaps instead of trying to cover so many bases, and not making the best case in most of them, try focussing on something, e.g the PoAL situation, which you put some really good comments and information up on!

        Edit: If you think I’m right wing, it only serves to show how your compass, while morally well set, it pointing you in the wrong direction!

        Don’t fall into the the trap others here do by closing off yourself too much, as in this world, there is so much which we can’t/won’t see, and don’t understanding. Letting don’t understand become won’t/can’t understand, is to admit defeat!

        • One Tāne Huna 1.3.1.1
          31 October 2012 at 8:03 am

          Right wing? What else do you call someone who thinks he’s entitled to his own facts?

          If the cap fits…

          • Gosman 1.3.1.1.1
            31 October 2012 at 8:25 am

            Don’t try and give him to us. You can keep him and Travellerev. We’ll keep Redbaiter and the other nutty Birthers.

            • One Tāne Huna 1.3.1.1.1.1
              1 November 2012 at 12:26 pm

              Sorry Gossie: he’s all yours.

              • muzza …
                1 November 2012 at 12:39 pm

                Who is alex jones, and what is info wars?

                More over, how long have you spent looking sites which I have never referenced?

                Seems like you’re trying very hard to convince yourself, into, or out of something!

                • One Tāne Huna …
                  1 November 2012 at 1:43 pm

                  Well, if you must know, I noticed it listed by Alternet as one of the “Five Crazy Right Wing Conspiracy Theories About Hurricane Sandy”. The timing seemed perfect, almost as though someone were working to a script.

        • Te Reo Putake 1.3.1.2
          31 October 2012 at 8:15 am

          What a patronising. ignorant git you are, muzza. Jenny has a proud history of activism, a lifetime of learning and has pretty direct experience of how the world really works. You, on the other hand, appear to be channelling Rick from the Young Ones.

          • muzza 1.3.1.2.1
            31 October 2012 at 9:08 am

            I don’t know anything about Jennys background, and made no comment about it.

            Looks like you were not able to avoid that school boy error!

            Edit: Gosman, it sounds like the real you is back today.
            And yes the weather can/has been controlled, engineered, and modified, long ago, the fact the UN “outlawed” it as not to be weaponised” was frankly laughable whoever made that statement. The UN says cluster bombs and DU are illegal too!

            Yup, but overall the universe will ultimately do what it wants, spot on!

            • RedLogix 1.3.1.2.1.1
              31 October 2012 at 9:31 am

              muzza,

              I get very frustrated by these arguments. On one hand Gosman and TRP annoy the crap out of me with their obdurate refusal to even think the conventional, mocking anything that isn’t within their view of the world.

              At the same time you piss me by failing to apply some elementary logic and sceptical reasoning to your ideas. Like you I’m pretty clear that there is lot going on ‘behind the curtain’ as it were that us ordinary people are not privvy to. It’s good to be aware of that.

              But at the same time we are NOT privvy to the details or the evidence. Just because something is possible does NOT make it certain. You only make a fool of yourself and discredit the fundamental case you are making by pretending otherwise. You don’t have to uncover the wizard’s trick in order to know he is magician, and trying to outsmart the magician on his own turf is always a blunder.

              Otherwise you fall into the elementary trap that Shearer did a few weeks ago when he claimed there was a video of John Key talking to the GCSB about Dotcom. Now everyone knows that the video was almost certainly made …. but Shearer’s inability to produce it when challenged to do so allowed Key to turn a potential win into a loss.

              • muzza …
                31 October 2012 at 9:54 am

                At the same time you piss me by failing to apply some elementary logic and sceptical reasoning to your ideas..

                Why do you get emotional about it Red? Can you elaborate where you feel I fail to apply logic and sceptical reasoning to, what are not my ideas at all, they are only my opinions based on readings, and personal experiences!

                You only make a fool of yourself and discredit the fundamental case you are making by pretending otherwise.

                Did you read my posts RL? – Where is it I have categorically pretended that I know otherwise?

                Your comparison to Shearer is poorly used!

            • Te Reo Putake 1.3.1.2.1.2
              31 October 2012 at 12:50 pm

              What rubbish, Muzza. Your comprehension problems are probably what leads you to make such weird comments here. Garbage in, garbage out. The point I was making is that Jenny walks the walk. You talk the talk, but when you move your lips, all we hear is gibberish. Maybe when you leave your teenage years behind, you’ll start making sense. But I have my doubts.

              • muzza …
                31 October 2012 at 4:08 pm

                You really keep falling in the same holes you do!

                Why on earth would you pretend to know what I do, its just assumption error after school-boy error with you, followed by transferance of “comprehension problems”, which given how this conversation is headed again, seems to be a repeated failing of yours!

                Assumption Lesson 101: If you don’t know someone personally, never assume you know what that person, does, or does not do!

                Simple enough for you!

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  31 October 2012 at 7:15 pm

                  In this case, assumption just made an ass out of you, Muzza. You’re all mouth, no trousers. Live a little, empty vessel, you stand to learn a lot.

        • Gosman 1.3.1.3
          31 October 2012 at 8:23 am

          “…despite the best efforts of those to try and control our little part of the universe.”

          But apparently they can control the weather. Go figure.

  2. Jenny 2
    30 October 2012 at 6:25 am

    ‘
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-global-warming-happening-faster-than-expected

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/08/03/senators-fiddle-while-deep-ocean-temperatures-rise/

    There is so much water in the oceans, which cover so much of the word at an average depth of 12,000 feet, he told the committee, that the deepest parts are extremely well insulated from any transient temperature changes at the surface. As decades and even in some cases more than 100 years of data show, water temperature does not usually vary much in the deepest parts of the ocean.

    Over the past ten years, however, the average temperature of even this deepest water has started to rise. Given that the deep ocean is so well protected from the kinds of measuring problems that can confound temperature results on land, the deep water trend provides some of the best evidence to date that average temperatures on the Earth are climbing.

    “There is no debate that the earth’s temperature is increasing,” McCarthy concluded. “Over the last half century the atmosphere, land surface, ocean surface and deep ocean and ice loss in polar regions have all confirmed this. And they can only be explained by the increase in greenhouse gases. There is no scientific evidence that refutes this conclusion.”

    Testimony to the Senate committee hearing on climate change

    No doubt further evidence of this unfolding climate disaster will be greeted with deafening silence by both the leading political parties in this country as well, and even the Greens will mute their response so as not to appear to radical.

    Am I bitter?

    As our world is flushed down the toilet.

    Yes I am.

    • tinfoilhat 2.1
      30 October 2012 at 7:18 am

      The only hope for this country is if the public turn away from NACT and Labour in droves, otherwise the same old crooks will do the same old thing.

    • muzza 2.2
      30 October 2012 at 7:45 am

      At least be bitter in the right direction Jenny – Like with the Syria situation, you are again, on the wrong track.

      This planet will continue on, with or without the human experiment..

      There is little to nothing which will alter that fact, the universe will do, exactly what it wants!

      • One Tāne Huna 2.2.1
        30 October 2012 at 8:03 am

        …exactly what it wants, except where the weather is concerned. Bill Gates decides on that. Wheeee!

      • Jenny 2.2.2
        30 October 2012 at 9:06 pm

        This planet will continue on, with or without the human experiment..

        muzza

        More misdirection, dressed up in misanthropic drivel.

        If this is really your opinion. I don’t buy it.

        This world won’t be the same place without human beings to admire it.

      • Jenny 2.2.3
        30 October 2012 at 10:03 pm

        At least be bitter in the right direction Jenny – Like with the Syria situation, you are again, on the wrong track.

        muzza

        muzza, no amount of mass murder from the air will save the Assad regime. In the eyes of the people it’s legitimacy is gone.

        Despite the regime’s savage bombardment of rebel-held areas in Damascus, residents take to the streets of the capital’s Rukn el-Din neighbourhood to sing their opposition to Syrian dictator Bashar Assad.

        Citizen Journalist 29 October 2012

        http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/syrian-air-raids-end-truce-that-never-was/

        Hey muzza, give up the misdirection, drop the left humanist pose, I can see through your act. You are just another cynical, run of the mill, right wing misanthrope.

        • Jenny 2.2.3.1
          30 October 2012 at 10:13 pm

          UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi expressed his regret yesterday at the failure of the four-day Eid truce in Syria as regime warplanes launched the most intense air raids since the uprising began 19 months ago.

          Rami Abdul-Rahman, who heads the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, said the Syrian military was trying to compensate for recent losses on the ground with air strikes.

          “Today has seen the most intense air raids across Syria since the start of the uprising,” he said.

          “More than 100 buildings have been destroyed, some levelled to the ground,” said opposition activist Moaz Al Shami, who said he had witnessed three air raids in the northeastern suburb of Harasta alone. “Whole neighbourhoods are deserted … There is no food, water, electricity or telephones.”

          The Damascus air raids followed what residents said were failed attempts by troops to storm eastern parts of the city.

          “Tanks are deployed around Harat Al Shwam but they haven’t been able to go in. They tried a week ago,” said an activist who lives near the area…..

          The National via Kia Ora Gaza

          http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/syrian-air-raids-end-truce-that-never-was/

          • Colonial Viper 2.2.3.1.1
            30 October 2012 at 11:31 pm

            Best of luck to all the foreign Saudi, Bahrani, Iraqi and Qatari fighters participating in the Libyan “civil war”!!!

            • Jenny 2.2.3.1.1.1
              31 October 2012 at 12:56 am

              More misdirection. Getting a little cautious in praising your bloodthirsty dictator Bashar Assad. Eh CV.

              As I warned you, your whole credibility is at stake.

              • Colonial Viper …
                31 October 2012 at 1:37 am

                Ah shit you’re right I meant to say Syrian civil war, sorry.

                Oh look, yet another news article saying that the Syrian rebels are accepting help from foreign fighters and foreign Al Qaeda, even though they know that some of them are religious extremists.

                http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/foreign-fighters-worry-boost-syrian-rebels-17557191

                Jabhat al-Nusra is the largest grouping of foreign jihadis in Syria, and the rebels say they number about 300 fighters in Aleppo, as well as branches in neighboring Idlib province, the city of Homs and the capital Damascus. Any direct links to al-Qaida are unclear, although U.S. and Iraqi officials have said they believe members of al-Qaida’s branch in Iraq have crossed the border to join the fight against Assad.

                There are no reliable figures for the number of foreign fighters in Syria, although available estimates put the number in the hundreds, rather than the thousands.

  4. Logie97 4
    30 October 2012 at 7:39 am

    If they insist on freeing up land for housing,

    just don’t give it to property developers, because they will not produce “low cost” housing at all. (Take a look at Hobsonville).

    • AsleepWhileWalking 4.1
      30 October 2012 at 8:14 am

      Exactly. Should consider freeing it up to families. At least then it wouldn’t have an extra hundred thousand on top of each section.

  5. Colonial Viper 5
    30 October 2012 at 8:37 am

    I wonder if US election turnout is even going to make it to 50% this time around.

    Their ‘democracy’ is on it’s last legs.

    • Lanthanide 5.1
      30 October 2012 at 9:39 am

      Apparently people have to vote at the election booth closest to their home. Changing that in itself could lift turnout quite a bit.

      • aerobubble 5.1.1
        30 October 2012 at 10:29 am

        Sandy is an argument for continual voting where you can change your vote every say three months, and if for three months the governing party doesn’t have a majority it loses power to those who do.

        Hey, isn’t sandy a Squirrel?

        • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1
          30 October 2012 at 11:19 am

          Continual voting…holy shit I have never heard of that concept before…and I like it!

          • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1.1
            30 October 2012 at 11:50 am

            You’d have to take voting online to make it viable. Now, I’m in favour of that but you’re not.

            The problem with manual systems is that they’re too damn clunky for near real time voting.

            • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1.1
              30 October 2012 at 11:54 am

              No, I don’t think you have to do it online. People register their car by post every 6-12 months for instance.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                30 October 2012 at 1:59 pm

                But not all at once. In fact, as I recall, that’s why the registration system was changed from cars having the same registration date to a floating date. There was, quite simply, far too much administration taking place on one day of the year for no appreciable gain.

          • Lanthanide 5.1.1.1.2
            30 October 2012 at 1:09 pm

            It sounds terrible. It means everything the government does must be absolutely populist or they’ll be voted out and replaced. With such short time frames it’d be impossible to implement new policies.

            Now, continual voting whereby come election day the votes are crystalised, that’d be fine. But I don’t think that’s what aero is suggesting.

            • insider 5.1.1.1.2.1
              30 October 2012 at 1:38 pm

              In the US they almost have continuous voting with the cycles of senate and representative elections. In the presidential elections they have been voting in some places for over a month – 15m votes already – but the results are not allowed to be reported. http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2012.html

            • felix 5.1.1.1.2.2
              30 October 2012 at 2:58 pm

              “With such short time frames it’d be impossible to implement new policies that weren’t supported by a majority of voters.”

              FIFY.

              • Lanthanide …
                30 October 2012 at 3:32 pm

                See: populist.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  30 October 2012 at 3:50 pm

                  And if the voters are voting from having the full information and months of open discussion before hand would it still be populist?

                • felix …
                  30 October 2012 at 4:30 pm

                  Lanth, your definition of “populist” applies equally well to all democratic representation and renders our entire system of government essentially meaningless.

                  Nothing wrong with holding that point of view, but don’t pretend it only applies to this one specific idea of how representative democracy might be practised.

              • aerobubble …
                31 October 2012 at 2:15 pm

                You mean like partial sale of state assets would never have been…

  6. vto 6
    30 October 2012 at 8:44 am

    The government’s announcements on improving housing affordability are useless….

    1. Freeing up a widdle bit more land will do nothing to relevant land values in Auckland. ha ha ha.

    2. Improving resource consent timeframes will do nothing. You don’t even need a resource consent to build a house ffs. And if you cannot get a resource consent through in 6 months for a subdivision then the applicant has done a useless job.

    3. What was the other thing?

    That has to be the most useless package I have ever seen.

    • tc 6.1
      30 October 2012 at 9:02 am

      Yes but allows them to get their greedy hands on such areas as the Waitakere ranges which Hide tried and failed in his hamfisted supershity acts.

      Not so useless if you’re a developer with mates.

      • aerobubble 6.1.1
        31 October 2012 at 2:20 pm

        Watched “that girl’ on TV last night, seems anywhere by NZ you can live in a renovated warehouse in the inner city, not in NZ. National predilection for more sprawl isn’t the answer.

    • Lanthanide 6.2
      30 October 2012 at 9:41 am

      “2. Improving resource consent timeframes will do nothing. You don’t even need a resource consent to build a house ffs. And if you cannot get a resource consent through in 6 months for a subdivision then the applicant has done a useless job.”

      They had a developer on the news saying that basically when you’re doing a subdivision, you end up waiting for the consents etc. This means you end up borrowing money from the bank to cover this downtime and keep the project afloat, which results in more interest costs that are passed on to the final sale price. Also it just makes the whole exercise more difficult and costly trying to deal with shifting time frames.

      • vto 6.2.1
        30 October 2012 at 9:51 am

        Well I guess that would be an expected response. My time on the planet has taken me into this sphere many many times and there has never been any serious problem with Council timeframes. And that is in over 20 years.

        The problems arise when a poorly structured application is put to Council. This industry attracts cowboys and secondhand car dealers. They put in bad applications that are incomplete and cause the Council grief. Good operators do not have this particular problem. It is a myth that English is playing politics with.

        As for holding costs while going through consent – those operators need to factor it in. What do they expect? That they can fill out an A4-sized form and get consent the next day? Or some such similarity? They need to do their research and do the job properly.

        Seriously, this problem is a myth.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.1
          30 October 2012 at 11:52 am

          It’s not that the problem is a myth but the source of the problem that’s the myth. It’s not council but useless developers.

          • Herodotus 6.2.1.1.1
            30 October 2012 at 2:53 pm

            Really, wonder where you get that from
            The real issues to me at these:
            Banks and their liberal loaning policies.
            Extremely poor town planners who prepare crap plan changes that do not reflect the nature of the land, developers operate under council guidelines.
            Immigration that central govt allows then walks away from the issues that this increase in pop. causes.
            Poor planning in linking work, home, school, recreation etc

  7. Penny Bright 7
    30 October 2012 at 10:26 am

    (Apologies for the length – but don’t yet have this anywhere where you could click on a link.)

    WELLINGTON! LEARN FROM THE AUCKLAND $UPERCITY!
    “CORRUPTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS”!

    This presentation was filmed, and can be viewed, (after registering – costs nothing to register) at http://www.allaboutauckland.com/
    “CORRUPTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS” 25 October 2012
    ________________________________________________________________________________

    AUCKLAND COUNCIL GOVERNING BODY
    25 OCTOBER 2012 PUBLIC FORUM
    – “CORRUPTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS”
    Penny Bright (Transcript)

    “I hate to be the one to pop the hot air balloon, but New Zealand is actually a corrupt, polluted tax haven.

    Although we are ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’, the Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’ is actually based upon the subjective opinions of anonymous business people.

    If NZ is ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – arguably we should be the most transparent.

    So – how come the ‘books’ of Auckland Council and Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs) are NOT open?

    How come we are not given the ‘devilish detail’ – the NAMES of the consultants/contractors; the SCOPE, the TERM and VALUE of the contracts?

    As of 21 November last year, there were 5000 contracts to 12,500 suppliers.

    Please be reminded Councillors, of your statutory duties under the Local Government Act :

    s.14 Principles relating to local authorities

    (1 )In performing its role, a local authority must act in accordance with the following principles:

    (a)a local authority should—
    (i) conduct its business in an open, transparent, and democratically accountable manner; and

    (g)a local authority should ensure prudent stewardship and the efficient and effective use of its resources in the interests of its district or region;

    You swear an Oath to the public:

    “I, declare that I will faithfully and impartially, and according to the best of my skill and judgment, execute and perform, in the best interests of Auckland, the powers, authorities, and duties vested in or imposed upon me as a member of the Auckland Council by virtue of the Local Government Act 2002, the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act 1987, or any other Act.”

    So, how come you are not carrying out your statutory duties?

    How come you are not enforcing s.42 of the Local Government Act which makes it encumbent upon the CEO to ensure:

    (2)A chief executive appointed under subsection (1) is responsible to his or her local authority for—
    (e)maintaining systems to enable effective planning and accurate reporting of the financial and service performance of the local authority;

    This is not the first time that I’ve raised these issues with you.

    What channel that I could have gone down, have I not gone down?

    I have made a formal complaint to the National Archives Office because under s.17 of the Public Records Act 2005:
    17 Requirement to create and maintain records

    (1)Every public office and local authority must create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice, including the records of any matter that is contracted out to an independent contractor.

    You are not doing that.

    And – who is holding you to account?

    That’s why a formal complaint has been lodged with the Office of the Auditor-General and they ‘look at it before they look at it’ – but what this complaint is requesting is to investigate allegedly corrupt ‘conflicts of interest’ of Auckland Council CEO Doug McKay who is also a member of the extremely powerful private lobby group – the Committee for Auckland.

    How many contracts have been awarded by Auckland Council and any of the following CCOs to member companies of the Committee for Auckland?
    Watercare Services Ltd

    Auckland Transport

    ATEED (Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development Ltd)

    ACIL (Auckland Council Investment Ltd)

    AWDA (Auckland Waterfront Development Agency Ltd)

    RFA (Regional Facilities Auckland)

    ACPL (Auckland Council Property Ltd)

    Also – we want an investigation – why has Auckland Council not ensured CEO Doug McKay has carried out his statutory duties?

    Since 2006 – people such as myself organized opposition to the ‘Supercity’ because we said
    the ‘Supercity’ was not to benefit the majority of citizens and ratepayers.

    The purpose of the ‘Supercity’ was to set up a bigger public trough, for fewer, but bigger private snouts.

    Now we have the evidence to support this.

    The fact of the matter is that the ‘Supercity’ was a corrupt corporate coup – the organizational mechanism for the corporate takeover being the CCO model, which has never been subject to any ‘cost-benefit’ analysis by the Office of the Auditor-General; the Department of Internal Affairs; Treasury or any Council.

    To finish – I believe there should be NO TAXATION without TRANSPARENCY or ACCOUNTABILITY. That’s why I have not paid my rates since 2008, and I refuse to do so.

    I believe that the people of Auckland must make a stand to take back our region from corporate control, and I call on people to take that action. NO SAY – NO PAY!

    QUESTION FROM COUNCILLOR CATHY CASEY:

    “What response have you had from Council when you have asked for the list of contractors that you named – the 5000 and 12,500 suppliers.

    What reason have you been given for withholding this information?”

    MY REPLY:

    Reasons given on 21 November 2011 from Darrell Griffin (Manager for Democracy Services):

    When I asked:

    ” 1) Is the Auckland Council, in a truly ‘open, transparent and democratically-accountable’ way,
    going to ensure that citizens and ratepayers of the Auckland region are going to be given the ‘devilish’ detail,
    so we can see exactly where our rates monies are being spent on private sector consultants and contractors?

    a) Are the names of the consultants/ contractors; the scope, term and value of these contracts going to be
    published in the Auckland Council annual Report so that they are available for public scrutiny?

    b) If not – why not?

    (ANSWER) Not at this stage. there are 500 contracts related to 12,500 suppliers. To collate and publish these
    would be a major exercise logistically and cost-wise. ”

    That is the answer – the books are not open – they are still not open.

    I checked on the website this morning in the forlorn hope that there might have been some development.
    You put ‘contracts’ in the Council website – you find nothing.

    But – on the front page of the Auckland Council website – ‘Investment in Auckland’.

    If you are an investor – Auckland Council is very keen to help you and give you information.

    If you are a ratepayer wanting to know where your monies are being spent – sorry – BAD LUCK.

    Just one final point.

    This book to which I was referring contains ten new ‘Items of Evidence’ that High Court Judge Ellis allowed
    me to adduce in the Occupy Auckland vs Auckland Council case at which I was an Appellant.

    So – it’s not only the Office of the Auditor-General looking at these issues – also a High Court Judge.
    ________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

  8. Anne 8
    30 October 2012 at 11:12 am

    The SIS told the Immigration NZ in October last year that Kim Dotcom posed no threat to the security of NZ.

    So, why the Hollywood style raid at his Coatesville residence in January of this year? If he was no security risk then all they needed to do was knock on his front door.

    And that leads to another question. Why was John Key happy for them to carry out the raid on Dotcom’s property? Yes, we know he claims he never knew about it, but we all know now that he did – from October of last year!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10843731

    • Colonial Viper 8.1
      30 October 2012 at 11:17 am

      So, why the Hollywood style raid at his Coatesville residence in January of this year? If he was no security risk then all they needed to do was knock on his front door.

      Yep. Two constables turning up in a Holden would have done the trick.

    • insider 8.2
      30 October 2012 at 1:39 pm

      National security is a different concept to personal. The SIS deal with the former, the police more with the latter.

    • muzza 8.3
      30 October 2012 at 5:29 pm

      Anne in Hollywood, woops I mean America, if you put on a huge production when arresting someone for say, running/owning a raw foods store, or arrest the armish for selling raw foods/ milk, or arrest someone who is growing fresh produce in their own garden, then you set the stage for the public to assume guilt, because hey, if they sent in SWAT/FBI so that person must have done something really bad right!

      Its all for show, there is no other reason for it!

  9. Anne 9
    30 October 2012 at 11:21 am

    Addendum to 8.1

    The SIS have said they were not involved in the surveillance of Dotcom, but did pass on a request in October last year from the FBI to New Zealand police about carrying out a joint investigation into his activities.

    And Key claims he never knew anything? Just how gullible does he think we are?

  10. Draco T Bastard 10
    30 October 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Cambridge exam system under microscope

    Top Auckland schools that offer the system have been asked to a meeting by Auckland University tomorrow, amid concerns that younger students pushed through Cambridge are struggling with higher education.

    Schools including Kings College say the Cambridge exams are a better system than NCEA.

    So, the students that go through the ‘better’ system are struggling…

    Right, that would indicate that it’s not actually the better system.

    • ianmac 10.1
      30 October 2012 at 12:09 pm

      Cambridge suits cramming and practising exams as Auckland Grammar prides itself.
      But it does not result in absence of planning/research skills/independent study/ and thus struggling at University level. This is the same problem faced by students at traditional private schools who are highly organised but ignoring self motivation self organisation.

      • ianmac 10.1.1
        30 October 2012 at 1:44 pm

        Oops “But it does not result in absence of planning/research skills/independent study…..”
        “But it does result in absence of planning/research skills/independent study……

      • Murray Olsen 10.1.2
        30 October 2012 at 2:00 pm

        Exactly. My experience with “gifted” kids from the “elite” schools at the university level is that many of them do not know how to self-motivate. They also think in a very linear fashion and are hopeless at open ended problems. Where they excel is at paint by numbers type stuff.
        On the other hand, kids from normal schools who make it to university are often glad to have the opportunity to learn and make the most of it. They do not suffer from any sense of entitlement concerning the degree or diploma they think they deserve once a few tasks have been completed.
        Note that this is a total generalisation from my own experiences and I have not done any scientific study of the matter. Somebody probably has.

        • Dv 10.1.2.1
          30 October 2012 at 2:16 pm

          Bodes well for charter school and national standards then.

        • aerobubble 10.1.2.2
          2 November 2012 at 12:51 pm

          I disagree. Its your job, you are the expert educationist, and sure people from different backgrounds come incumbered with different problems. But worse, its not your job to turn out work ready, hungry capitalists, or any particular type. It is certainly true though that people desperate for success are likely to be fawning over themselves to feed narcissists. If a student is not engaging in your course, then it could be your course is boring, you teaching style doesn’t work for them, or the student is depressed for some personal reason, etc, etc, i.e. its an opportunity to learn, which is why you work in a learning establishment. The concern I have is how saturated our society has become with the needs of business, like every good idea, ideal, social good, can only come about if someone is profiting from their exploitation.

    • Chris 10.2
      30 October 2012 at 5:28 pm

      One point – it is talking about students who are going to university straight from year 12, so they should be having another year at school. It does not say that students who complete year 13 are having any issues.

      Sounds like the major issue is it is too easy to get UE in year 12 for Cambridge rather than either system being better.

      • Reagan Cline 10.2.1
        30 October 2012 at 7:33 pm

        EXACTLY RIGHT !!!
        The good thing about Cambridge is it gets you out of FUCKING SCHOOL and into life a year before the losers.

        • fatty 10.2.1.1
          30 October 2012 at 7:47 pm

          There’s nothing wrong with school, I had a great time…played sport, ate my lunch, fired a few spit balls.
          Although, I was lucky in that I didn’t bother doing any school work. That meant that I didn’t have to unlearn all that rubbish when I started life, and I also had nothing to unlearn when I got to uni.

  11. Jackal 11
    30 October 2012 at 1:27 pm

    National ignores democracy

    There’s no doubt that Nationals environmentally naïve policy direction will not only be detrimental to our clean and green branding, but our Kiwi way of life as well.

  12. Draco T Bastard 12
    30 October 2012 at 2:03 pm

    IMF study: Peak oil could do serious damage to the global economy

    Gee, the IMF might be starting to wake up to the fact that the present economic system isn’t actually economic.

    • muzza 12.1
      30 October 2012 at 5:44 pm

      What, because they care, or because they are a tool used to roll out “stuff” , as needed!

      • One Tāne Huna 12.1.1
        30 October 2012 at 5:57 pm

        No, silly, because their minds are controlled. Just like yours Nothing to see here, move along

        • muzza 12.1.1.1
          31 October 2012 at 7:52 am

          I really get under your skirt eh!

          The IMF are a tool, who only publish what suits the agenda of themselves/others. Do you undertand what being a tool is?

          • One Tāne Huna 12.1.1.1.1
            31 October 2012 at 8:00 am

            “…what suits the agenda of themselves/others….”

            And only you knows what that is, alone against the forces of evil; brave, noble Muzza, sticking it to the man, revealing all the secret plans and weapons. If only they could figure out how to keep you from hacking the innermost working of their minds, but you are too smart for them, with your keyboard in one hand and your tool in the other.

            • muzza 12.1.1.1.1.1
              31 October 2012 at 8:46 am

              Good, you do understand what being a tool is, self awareness is important!

              The other option is that you think the IMF exist for the good of “man kind”, and you can’t be that clueless!

              Its not possible to be inside the minds of others (although yours is rather tranparent), but when you pay attention, over a long enough period of time, and spend a little time trying to piece things togther, it is possible to form opinions, many of which might not add up to those who don’t bother!

              Does it make me right, no, does it make me more likely to be nearer understanding than those who categorically rule out possibilities that the world has more doing on than can see seen, of course it does!

    • aerobubble 12.2
      2 November 2012 at 1:00 pm

      We built sprawl, sprawl that had no environmental costing because oil was cheap, energy was assumed always to be cheap. We built our tower of ?Babel? inside out, instead of a multitude of different language being the fault, it was the one ruling ring of power, aka neo-liberalists never make mistakes because the market never fails.

  13. Uturn 13
    30 October 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Question for Administration:

    Do you think there is any worth in attaching a poll function for article authors to chose to add to their posts?

    With the high volume of traffic here, yet fewer number of regular commenters, would this be a way to measure trends of opinion as accurately as any other online polling system, such as MSM news sources? Some visitors may be interested in articles, but may not have the confidence or time to articulate their point of view – or need to repeat comments already made. Since subjects here often amount to a simple either/or/alternative conclusion, would a poll shorten, but increase, wider community participation?

    For example, the article on plain packaging on cigarettes has good arguments and eventually a reader is left to ask themselves, do I support this or not? Today, another author asks, does anyone support the mindset of Anyone But Cunliffe anymore? Another author asks, is government intervention the answer to an affordable housing crisis? There are other questions posed in these articles too, which the authors may want to promote instead of the obvious.

    It would be as flawed as any other unofficial survey, but the polls, tied to the subjects and perspectives of the authors, would at least create varied poll questions instead of a single point of view from a single editorial office.

    From The Standard’s point of view, it wins a collection of collated opinion, framed in it’s own language, from a sympathetic perspective, that could be made into a monthly review/summary of trends. The trends/opinions, of course, reflecting the views of the community, rather than The Standard, its authors or administration. Since TS contributors are often refered to as extremists (to put it politely) would their collated views be a portion of the public opinion market not yet recognised and measured? Reviews need not be strictly scientific. Depending on the manner of the poll question, a conclusion that Minister X is a Genius/Nutbox could be as valid as a report that a specific policy has a certain percentage of support from TS readers.

    Could a poll feature combine a bit of fun, a bit of science, an option for silent readers to be heard and possibly become a point of reference and media influence?

    • Lanthanide 13.1
      30 October 2012 at 3:34 pm

      I think we’ve talked about polls in the past and decided they were a waste of time because the results are meaningless, even if they weren’t rigged by one side or the other.

    • PlanetOrphan 14.1
      30 October 2012 at 3:32 pm

      True, 🙁

    • aerobubble 14.2
      2 November 2012 at 1:13 pm

      Suicide is about loss of control over ones life, the ability to make choices, to gain status, to solve problems, in my opinion, and the prospect that nothing is going to change.

      Government is oppressive, it creeps into every aspect of our lives, selecting winners (like those who have money and are given the incentive of free untaxed capital gains). And then government fails to address the problem. Then a utlra conservative leader, John Key, does nothing to change matters. So asking Key about Suicide, is like asking someone who had the choices, who has great status, who feels the need to help the winners not the also rans, and has time after time done nothing to change the status quo.

  16. Herodotus 16
    30 October 2012 at 4:31 pm

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10842385
    It seems that Auckland does not have 18,000
    Sections available this is the land that is Zoned is 18,000,there are about 3000 available or being developed the other 15000 have impediments like water care not having in its construction program for 4+ years to deliver water or find for storm water management. Other issues are awaiting for council to construct or improve its road network to service these developments even though council has been receiving contributions and levies for these.
    Unfortunately some of Les’s advisors have been misleading him and making him look silly

  17. Penny Bright 17
    30 October 2012 at 6:41 pm

    WHO WILL BENEFIT FROM/ GET OWNERSHIP OF / ACCESS TO / ‘SURPLUS’ CHRISTCHURCH MINISTRY OF EDUCATION LAND?

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/parata-tries-head-revolting-masses-ch-131459#comment-591888

    MY COMMENT – YET TO BE PUBLISHED

    What is being planned for the Ministry of Education LAND upon which these ‘redundant’ schools have been built?

    Is it true that Ministry of Education land is a major source of land for iwi settlements?

    Is THIS the real reason behind the forced ‘amalgamation’ of these Christchurch schools?

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

  18. Herodotus 18
    30 October 2012 at 8:27 pm

    One final point on land availability is that even if there was adequate zoned land available, there still is a reluctance for those Australian banks to fund the development. I am aware of quite a few large developments (200-1500 lot developments) that are hamstrung by the financial constraints that limits pace of development. As banks are still land adverse and are wanting the debt reduced and any “surplus” can go towards future development and capitalising of interest is not an option so must be financed from existing cash flows or additional capital. I had heard that these banks were wishing to divest out of development in NZ, wishing to use these funds to invest in Australia where the banks hierarchy is better acquainted with and developments like those in Queenstown Nigel McKenna (Kawerau Falls),
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/518956/Queenstown-edgy-as-finance-companies-fail.
    It is somewhat a paradoxical the banks are falling over themselves in refueling the property boom but are reluctant to fund the development.
    Yet not a mention of this issue in regard to the creation of new residential land.

  19. fatty 19
    30 October 2012 at 8:46 pm

    I was expecting to see David Shearer rip into Kate Wilkinson on the 6pm news about their latest attack on vulnerable workers.
    I’ve been waiting all day because everyone knew it was coming.

    Did anyone see the news? Was there a response to this? There is nothing on the usual websites.
    Please don’t tell me Fozzie Bear was asleep at the wheel again.

  20. Draco T Bastard 20
    30 October 2012 at 9:53 pm

    Chances that our MSM would do this?

    Brazilian reporters trawled 100 kgs of govt papers to create 15,000-line Excel database to reveal multi million$ govt corruption

    Considering how much lies and misinformation they parrot from this government – about zero.

    • fatty 20.1
      30 October 2012 at 10:05 pm

      Can’t see John Armstrong putting in this much effort – maybe a blogger would

    • Murray Olsen 20.2
      30 October 2012 at 10:16 pm

      In Brazil the newspapers are very closely linked to particular political parties. It doesn’t surprise me at all that the likes of Rede Globo and Editora Abril would put this effort into exposing the corruption of what they see as a socialist government. As a comparison, imagine the lengths our media would go to if we had a Mana/Greens government.

  21. john72 21
    1 November 2012 at 10:34 am

    john72 …
    Today’s Quote:- 1 Corinthians 13:11 “When I was a child I spoke as a child…”
    The limited vocabulary of some authors is sad because, not only does it destroy the author’s credibility, something they deserve, but it lowers the level of “Open Mike” as a whole. It raises the question, “Is it worth reading Open Mike ?” I do not want to waste my time watching people abuse each other.

    However, there still seem to be some interesting contributors. It is a pity that the children have such an adverse effect.

    Gods peace be with you all.

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