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Open mike 30/11/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 30th, 2015 - 86 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

86 comments on “Open mike 30/11/2015”

  1. Northsider 1

    Stuart Nash promoted and David Cunliffe demoted in Grant Robertson’s reshuffle leaked (again) to Claire Trevett.
    There is no need to wait for Andrew Little’s announcement later today. Grant has passed it directly to Claire so that Andrew’s part is deminished.m

    The Parliamentary Labour Party is continuing its right-ward shift. Those who have the temerity to actually win electorate seats, respect the wishes of the members and keep to Left Wing values are passed over.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11553180

    • tc 1.1

      Uninspiring lot with no real zeal to get rid of this corrupt lot is all I can add and no surprises at all with a beltway trougher like Robertson.

    • Hami Shearlie 1.2

      If it’s true, it proves that Andrew Little is as much of an idiot as David Shearer was as Leader. Why would I as a party member want to stay and vote for that? I’ve voted Labour every election for 36 years. Never again if this is true. Can’t vote for idiots. Grant Robertson is a legend in his own mind! In the real world, Robertson pushed himself up at the expense of the Party vote. No care for members of the party or kiwis! And the puff piece on Ardern in the Woman’s Weekly just shows how shallow she really is! So she’ll go far. Amazing how she’s moving up when she can’t even win a seat. Then again, Little hasn’t either. Maybe having constituents is out of favour these days. They might expect their local MP to actually DO something for them!

    • Jenny Kirk 1.3

      Strange interpretation from Northsider. Nash is mentioned briefly at the end of the Trevett story.

      But the story starts off with Kelvin Davis replacing Nanaia Mahuta – that would be a major shift but perhaps for Northsider, Maori don’t count with Northsider!!

      And there is a clear message in the Trevett story re TPPA/trade. Read it for yourself, don’t just take Northsider’s interpretation as gospel.

    • Karen 1.4

      ” Grant Robertson’s reshuffle leaked (again) to Claire Trevett.”

      Why do you say Grant Robertson’s reshuffle when it is Andrew Little’ reshuffle? Based on what knowledge? Your own prejudice perhaps? Anybody with even a passing acquaintance with Andrew Little would know he would be making his own assessment based on many factors that he will know but you clearly do not.

      And as for “leaked (again)” this is exactly the same prediction made by Trevett before, just rehashed because Little is announcing the reshuffle today. There is no big secret here to be “leaked” and no advantage for anybody leaking. More to the point Trevett is an experienced political journalist who will make her own predictions after talking to many different people, including MPs.

      • mac1 1.4.1

        “Why do you say Grant Robertson’s reshuffle when it is Andrew Little’ reshuffle? Based on what knowledge? Your own prejudice perhaps? Anybody with even a passing acquaintance with Andrew Little would know he would be making his own assessment based on many factors that he will know but you clearly do not.”

        Thanks, Karen, and Jenny Kirk. Same thoughts came to me.

        As for journalists making things up, and being involved in guesswork? Has the earth stopped spinning?

        • mac1 1.4.1.1

          Actuality. Trevett got some things wrong in that Mahuta stays on front bench and Davis rises to 7th place, not fourth.

          She got right that Ardern goes to 5th and that Woods would go to front bench, and that Cunliffe would go lower.

          Katie Bradford on TV1 news just now says that there’re no surprises.

    • Roger Douglas and Michael Bassett have been invited by Stuart Nash to break bread with Labour. Nash is promoted.
      Yes, the right wing have completed their takeover.

      • Anne 1.5.1

        Bullshit Bill Drees. Some people here are either very young and/or have little knowledge of Labour’s history over the past few decades… or are blindsiding themselves for political reasons.

        Labour is marking a milestone in their history – 80 years since the election of the first Labour government. All past MPs (still in the land of the living) have a right to attend and were therefore issued an invitation. I hope they have a great reunion no matter what side of the Labour divide they came from.

        • RedLogix 1.5.1.1

          Usually Anne we’re not too far apart on most issues. I can see your point that all ex-MP’s technically have the right to attend. In one sense it’s hard to argue with that.

          On another – that govt was in reality the first (and only) ACT govt. It represented a political betrayal of the first magnitude, the likes of which most nations rarely experience, and the consequences of which still resonate with us forty years later.

          On that basis I would have expected the failed pig-farmer to be a persona-non-grata. The fact that he clearly still feels comfortable, and even welcome, to turn up and scoff the Party grub, tells me something about the Party.

          • Grant 1.5.1.1.1

            * ” still resonate with us forty years later.”

            Thirty. Don’t make us older than we are RL, I feel old enough already.

            PS. Agree totally about the betrayal and the irony of having Actoids sitting down to a dinner celebrating the first Labour Govt. Shakes head in bemusement at the doublethink required for this to be able to happen.

          • weka 1.5.1.1.2

            On another – that govt was in reality the first (and only) ACT govt. It represented a political betrayal of the first magnitude, the likes of which most nations rarely experience, and the consequences of which still resonate with us forty years later.

            On that basis I would have expected the failed pig-farmer to be a persona-non-grata. The fact that he clearly still feels comfortable, and even welcome, to turn up and scoff the Party grub, tells me something about the Party.

            Well put Red. Until Labour apologise for the 80s government and breaks from that, they will always be viewed with suspicion.

            • Rosie 1.5.1.1.2.1

              “Until Labour apologise for the 80s government and breaks from that, they will always be viewed with suspicion.”

              They have an excellent opportunity to do that next year during the celebration of their centenary. Come clean, let it all out, face it, say sorry to the nation.

              For my age group who were in our teens in the 80’s our experience of Labour isn’t one of personal betrayal, it’s more of a historical betrayal, as we moved into the consequences of rogernomics without having to adjust. Unlike the generation before us. From what I hear from this age group they are still very bitter and for good reason – everything that was once secure was pulled out from beneath them.

              When I speak to older friends about politics they look at me like I’m a complete idiot for being a Labour voter and even worse, being a member.

              I really do agree that Labour has to be up front about this uncomfortable past. Crosby Textor would probably suggest otherwise and say apologies look bad, and going by Key’s absolute lack of apologies to anyone except Slater, they probably do advise him to keep quiet.

              But the grown up thing to do is to apologise. As individuals we know we have to do it when we stuff up, if we want to keep open and honest relationships. Surely Labour want an open and honest relationship with a group of former supporters whose trust they must regain?

          • Anne 1.5.1.1.3

            Yes Redlogix, I read all of your contributions (except the highly technical musings which are beyond my comprehension) because they always gel with me. I guess I’m coming from a different perspective than most on this site.

            I joined the Labour Party early in 1972 and, by virtue of my back-ground in one of the central Auckland suburbs, I came to know the likes of Bassett, the Douglas family and others of their ilk quite well. They were all ardent admirers of Michael J Savage and had the famous framed picture of him on their walls. By 1984, and for personal reasons, I had dropped out of politics so have never come to grips with what happened during the 80s decade. It was the Muldoon years which provided the catalyst for the changes and over time the whole thing spun out of control. We are still reeling from the fallout in so many ways.

            So, on the basis that these people were an integral part of Labour’s history throughout the 60s and 70s (before the neo liberal era began) they are entitled to attend this anniversary. A bit like an old boys/girls school reunion in a way.

        • Colonial Viper 1.5.1.2

          inviting Douglas and Bassett to a celebration of the First Labour Govt. It’s madness. To bad Mike Moore couldn’t attend.

        • Bill Drees 1.5.1.3

          Anne,
          Do you invite people to your home who are fully dedicated to damaging your family?
          Douglas and Bassett are enemies of Labour. Only an idiot or a cuckoo would be party to inviting them into a Labour event.

          • te reo putake 1.5.1.3.1

            Bill, happily Douglas and Bassett are part of Labour’s history. If we don’t remember our history there is always the risk of repeating the mistakes. I know a lot of LP members are weirded out by the invite, but it’s indicative of nothing much at all, really. Maybe only that the party has a sense of humour.

            And as for inviting people to your home who are fully dedicated to damaging your family, TS is hardly immune from that issue, either.

            • Kiwiri 1.5.1.3.1.1

              “And as for inviting people to your home who are fully dedicated to damaging your family, TS is hardly immune from that issue, either.”

              Quack erat demonstrandum. Q.E.D.

            • weka 1.5.1.3.1.2

              “happily Douglas and Bassett are part of Labour’s history.”

              I think that should be, unhappily Douglas and Bassett are part of Labour’s history.

              • McFlock

                ha

                Some might suspect it was a freudian slip 🙂

              • adam

                To paraphrase Peter Fraser

                “Someone left the name labour party lying around and so some darn fool took it”

                It seems the fools are still in charge of the party…

          • McFlock 1.5.1.3.2

            Well, you might invite the junkie cousin to Christmas dinner if he gets parole for the festive season. And hope he doesn’t show up.

            But once a party starts a damnatio memoriae list, where does it stop? Warts and all is the way to go for a political organisation.

    • DH 1.6

      It must be frustrating to be a Labour Party member. These leaks to the media, especially to the likes of Trevett, make the party a laughing stock.

      I don’t know who is talking out of school but whoever it is, or they are, urgently needs to be found and expelled from the party. If Andrew Little can’t control his caucus and deal with disloyalty he’ll never get anywhere IMO.

      • Karen 1.6.1

        Troll alert!

        • DH 1.6.1.1

          Stop taking us for fools Karen. Trevett may have put some of it together from guesswork but by no means all.

          • Karen 1.6.1.1.1

            Leaks have to be for a reason, some kind of advantage. There is none here.
            I don’t believe those who have been spouting this line over the last week are fools necessarily. Some have other agendas.

            • DH 1.6.1.1.1.1

              I’d think it was politics Karen, the usual tit for tat. The occasional insider tip in exchange for anything useful to further one’s political ambitions.

              An obvious advantage there would be for Trevett, leaks give her something to write about and keep her job. I’d expect there to be some kind of payback for useful leaks; a fluff piece perhaps or a subtle attack on an adversary.

              One of National’s strengths is they run a tight ship. I’m quite sure they have much internal dissent but they keep it in the family. Outwardly they give the appearance of a well oiled machine and that resonates with voters.

              As for agendas, yes I can see your point there’s no evidence put forward to suggest Grant Robertson has been leaking to the media and false accusations are just as bad as narking.

      • Sabine 1.6.2

        Frankly why would anyone give a dime about what Clare Trevett says in the NZ Herald?

        Why would that be frustrating. Gosh, if it were not for the Standard I would not even know who a. Clare Trevett is, and b. what type of horse manure the Herald would try to pass of as news today.

        Any rugby games on?

  2. A very enlightening lecture By Dr. Michael Parenti.

    In light of the media barrage on why people who don’t want the flag to change are nuts, conspiracy theorists and should be shunned by “normal” people, who understand the importance of voting, I thought I’d republish this eminently important lecture on why it pays to be aware of corporate conspiracies to gain global control. You are not nuts when you have a healthy paranoia with regards to our corporately owned government and the bankster goon, we know as John Key, running it!

  3. Rosemary McDonald 3

    There is a direct link between cruelty to animals and cruelty and violence towards people.

    Watch the video, would these people treat their children like this?

    Natrad has extensive coverage of this…

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201780748/animal-rights-campaigner-cruelty-inherent-in-dairy-industry

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/290877/fed-farmers-appalled-by-abuse-video

    In some cases, yes.

    I believe that we have an unnaturally high tolerance of cruelty and violence in this country.

    The statistics on domestic violence and child abuse and murder would bear this out.

    Our glorifying of a sport that condones violence, that practically deifies a player who came to prominence for his propensity for throwing aside and trampling over opposition players…

    • Tony Veitch 3.1

      As on Sunday, TV1 – disgraceful behaviour by some/many dairy farmers. Added to the shameful use of battery cages for hens and small pens for pigs, and water pollution from cows and the nett result is an agricultural sector in dire need to some intensive regulation and supervision.
      If ever anyone needed a lesson that ‘the market [does not] knows best – just look at our primary industries!

  4. esoteric pineapples 4

    Heard the other day from a friend of friend that there is are plans being formated right now within the Department of Internal Affairs to corporatise councils’ activities.

  5. Pascals bookie 5

    https://mobile.twitter.com/pzf/status/671050032754356224

    Russians hitting a bread factory. Damn anti-Regime Islamist radical breads!

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1

      The Paris attacks did not take place

      The temptation that Baudrillard could not resist in writing these essays with these deliberately provocative titles was the manner in which the unfolding events leading up to, during, and soon after the Gulf War provided him with a perfect example for his ideas of “simulacra”, “simulation” and “hyperreality”.

      He wished rhetorically to register the fact that the Gulf War was an unfolding media event, a virtual reality, with simulated reactions masquerading for the real human experience of being at war. In the midst of this hyperreality, the reality of the Iraq war was drowned.

  6. Pascals bookie 6

    And here they hit a crowded anti-Regime marketplace, again in Idlib. Probably selling terrorBread: (warning graphic pics)

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/20-killed-russian-air-strike-syrian-market-151129082103978.html

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      Must be using the American military manual.

      More seriously, why doesn’t Al Jazeera have anyone on the ground checking out the story? NB the “Syrian Observatory for Human Rights” is one guy operating out of a flat in England.

    • Sabine 6.2

      in what is a ‘suspected russian strike’, as per the article you linked too, its right there at the beginning of the article in case you missed it.

      But then, who is not bombing syria……..here a list from 2015 (but I understand, the bombs from non russians are more civilian friendly bombs than the bombs from russia. And maybe really at this stage crying about the russians is a tad hypocrytical considering that the US and its Allies have been bombing the life out of syria since 2011, have been paying this or that or all groups to various degrees, cause profit!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_Syria

      January 2015[edit]

      In a 70th round of airstrikes on January 1, the United States and coalition partners carried out 17 airstrikes in and around Kobanî, near Deir ez-Zor, and near Ar-Raqqah. Thirteen airstrikes in and around Kobanî destroyed 12 ISIL controlled buildings, four ISIL fighting positions, one ISIL vehicle as well as striking two ISIL tactical units and two large ISIL units. Two airstrikes near Ar-Raqqah destroyed five ISIL checkpoints and struck an ISIL staging area, while two airstrikes near Deir ez-Zor destroyed an ISIL fighting position and struck an ISIL shipping container.[170]

      February 2015[edit]
      On February 5, 2015, Jordan elevated its role in the U.S.-led coalition in Syria, launching one of the largest airstrike campaigns since early January 2015, targeting ISIL militants near Ar-Raqqah, the de facto ISIL capital, inflicting an unknown number of casualties and damaging ISIL facilities. This was done in retaliation against ISIL’s brutal murder of Muath al-Kasasbeh.[193][194]

      On February 6, a continued round of Coalition airstrikes at Ar-Raqqah killed over 30 ISIL militants.[195]

      On February 21, Syrian Kurds launched an offensive to retake ISIL-held territories in the Al-Hasakah Governorate, specifically in the Tell Hamis area, with support from US airstrikes. At least 20 villages were liberated, and 12 militants were killed in the clashes.[196] In response, on 23 February, ISIL abducted 150 Assyrian Christians from villages near near Tal Tamr (Tell Tamer) in northeastern Syria, after launching a large offensive in the region.[197][198]
      As a result of ISIL’s massive offensive in the west Al-Hasakah Governorate, the US-led coalition increased the number of airstrikes in the region to 10, on February 24, in order to halt the ISIL advance. The airstrikes struck nine ISIL tactical units and destroyed two ISIL vehicles.[170]

      On February 26, the number of Assyrian Christians abducted by ISIL from villages in northeastern Syria from February 23–25 rose to at least 220, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), a monitoring group based in Britain.[199][200]

      On February 27, the Kurdish Democratic Union Party and Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported that Kurdish fighters had recaptured the town of Tal Hamis, along with most of the villages occupied by ISIL in the region. At least 127 ISIL militants were killed in the clashes, along with 30 YPG and allied fighters.[201] One Australian volunteer, who was fighting for the YPG, was also killed.[202] Many of the remaining ISIL militants retreated to Tell Brak, which quickly came under assault from the YPG and allied Arab fighters.
      March 2015[edit]

      On March 1, 2015, YPG fighters, aided by US airstrikes, were able to drive ISIL militants out of Tell Brak, reducing the ISIL occupation in the eastern Jazira Canton to the villages between Tell Brak and Tal Hamis.[203]

      On March 6, it was reported that Abu Humam al-Shami, al-Nusra’s military chief, was killed in a US airstrike targeting a meeting of top al-Nusra leaders, at the al-Nusra Front’s new headquarters at Salqin.[35]

      On March 9, the US carried out another airstrike on the al-Nusra Front, targeting a military camp near Atimah, close to the Turkish border in the Idlib Governorate. The airstrike left 9 militants dead.[204]
      On March 24, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced that Canada would be looking to expand Operation Impact to include airstrikes against ISIL in Syria as well.

      On March 26, the United Kingdom Ministry of Defence announced the deployment of around 75 military trainers and headquarter staff to Turkey, and other nearby countries in the anti-ISIL coalition, to assist with the U.S.-led training programme in Syria. The training programme will provide small arms, infantry tactics and medical training to Syrian moderate opposition forces for over three years.[117]

      On March 30, the House of Commons of Canada authorized the extended deployment of its military for one year and the war in Syria.[205]
      April 2015[edit]

      On April 8, Canada initiated airstrikes in Syria, with two CF-18 fighters bombing a former military installation of the Syrian government that was captured by ISIL, near its headquarters in ar-Raqqah.[205]

      May 2015[edit]
      Main article: May 2015 U.S. special forces raid in Syria

      On May 15, after surveillance by British special forces confirmed the presence of a senior leader named Abu Sayyaf in al-Amr,[206] 1st SFOD-Delta operators from the Joint Special Operations Command based in Iraq conducted an operation to capture him. The operation resulted in his death when he tried to engage U.S. forces in combat and the capture of his wife Umm Sayyaf. The operation also led to the freeing of a Yazidi woman who was held as a slave. About a dozen ISIL fighters were also killed in the raid, two U.S. officials said. The SOHR reported that an additional 19 ISIL fighters were killed in the US airstrikes that accompanied the raid. One official said that ISIL Forces fired at the U.S. aircraft, and there was reportedly hand-to-hand combat during the raid. UH-60 Black Hawk and V-22 Osprey helicopters were used to conduct the raid, and Umm Sayyaf is currently being held by U.S. Forces in Iraq.[32][207][208]

      July 2015[edit]
      Following a suicide bombing in the Şanlıurfa Province of Turkey believed to have been carried out by ISIL militants on 20 July, as well as an ISIL cross-border attack that killed a Turkish serviceman on 23 July, Turkish armour and aircraft struck ISIL targets just across the border in Syria. Turkey also agreed to let the United States use the USAF Incirlik Air Base for strikes against ISIL.[7][209]

      August 2015[edit]
      On 21 August, three Islamic State fighters, two with UK nationality, were targeted and killed in Raqqa, Syria by a British Royal Air Force MQ-9 Reaper strike. Prime Minister David Cameron gave a statement to Parliament that one of the British nationals targeted had been plotting attacks in the United Kingdom. Another British national was killed in a separate air strike by US forces in Raqqa on 24 August.[210]

      October 2015[edit]
      The introduction of Russian aircraft and ship based cruise missiles in support of the Syrian Government to Syrian airspace creates new threats to the US-led coalition. Discussions are held to deconflict Syrian airspace.

      On 10 October, the state run Syrian Arab News Agency reported claims that two U.S. F16 jets had “violated Syrian airspace” and bombed two electricity power plants in al-Rudwaniya, east Aleppo, “in breach of international law”.[211]

      On 20 October Canada’s Prime Minister elect Justin Trudeau informed Barack Obama by phone of Canada’s intention to pull out of bombing raids in Syria. Canada will remain a coalition partner but will stop strikes.[212]

      November 2015[edit]
      After the deadly attacks in Paris, French President Francois Hollande sent its only aircraft carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, with its 26 fighters to intensify air strikes.[213]

      On 27 November, Syrian Arab News Agency reported The US-led international coalition, allegedly fighting ISIS, targeted water pumping stations in al-Khafseh area, east of Aleppo, causing them to go out of service.[214][215]

      • Pascals bookie 6.2.1

        Think you’ll find that the hypocrites are the people minimising it when Russia does it, actually.

        Now, why would it be a suspected Russian strike, do you think?

        You seem to have been following the war, so come on, who would be most likely to be bombing Idlib right now?

        • Ad 6.2.1.1

          I am expecting that ISIL will be reversed in 2016 and from there reasonably rapidly contained into northern Iraq.

          They are after all hemmed in on three sides by Jordan, Iraq/US, Turkey, Libya/Russia, the Kurds, and will continue to suffer massive airborne bombing degradation.

          If I’m right, this makes it more likely that ISIL will continue to shift their centre of attention to Libya, which has no functioning government and is surrounded to the south, west and east by very weak governments. Plus, plenty of oil production together with full seaports to capture. Unlike Syria and Iraq, NATO has no near-Libyan solutions to build a base from.

          So the west needs to prepare for a migration wave from Libya even bigger than that from Syria.

        • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.2

          Think you’ll find that the hypocrites are the people minimising it when Russia does it, actually.

          Just note that Qatar funded news sources like Al Jazeera have their own angle to put on what is happening in Syria, given that Qatar would like its own pipelines through the country and Assad gone so it can happen.

          The Americans have no worries about destroying Syrian government infrastructure, bombing Syria back to the stone age and turning the locals against Assad.

          The Russians on the other hand have the objective of ensuring a functioning Syrian state, ongoing civil services and minimising public ill will towards Damascus.

        • sabine 6.2.1.3

          Personally i believe that everyone who is not Syrian should stop bombing Syria.
          russians, yanks, saudis, french, english, Turkey and whomever i may have forgotten.

          this small country has been getting it for four years now, and we want to complain that the russians joined in the fun? WTF? We should have complained when the yanks started bombing in the first place in their quest to bring Freedom n shite as approved by Uncle Sam.

          What ever happened in Syria, was a problem for syrians to sort, not for the ;western world to fuck up beyond believe, like Iraq, like Afghanistan, like they are gonna fuck up Yemen, lebanon, Somalia, Lybia, am I fogetting some? Feel free to ad.

          • Pascals bookie 6.2.1.3.1

            What about what about blah blah blah.

            The Russians are worse. It’s not that hard to understand. I’ve got thousands of comments on this site, feel free to find any where I support western policies in the middle east. Go on, I’ll wait.

            Retreating to some pixie plan about how you want everyone out is fine, but fucked if it justifies actually defending Putin, or Assad, ffs.

            • sabine 6.2.1.3.1.1

              The russians are as bad as the yanks, as the english, as all the others.
              yada yada yada yada.

              But you know what, yes, Syria under Assad was better then what is Syria now under ISis and bombing by every fuckwit with an army, fighterplanes and bombs. Fuck we support Saudi Arabia which is a fucking Islamic state beheading women, men and mere children for the fucking sake of writing a poem or having sex. But that is ok, because their terrorism is more ‘democratic ‘ than the ‘democracy’ of Assad?

              And no, i am not defending Putin, i just don’t see why it is ok if the bombs come from the yanks or the poms but its not ok when they come from the ruskies. Seriously get a grip. None should be bombing Syria. full stop there. No one has any reasons to defend what fucking ever interest they have in Syria unless they are Syrians. Oh….forgot they have pretty much all left the hellhole, to rot away in some camps cause no one wants refugees from Syria cause ISIS. Fucking bullshit.

              But you know what, its good for business….is it not? All those western weapons manufactures i am sure are getting their fill. Fuck it.

              • Pascals bookie

                Speak for yourself if you support Sauds, I don’t.

                Why shoudln;t we support Assad? Coz he is at war with his own people, and would be losing if not for Iranian and russian support which is far greater than the foriegn support the rebels are getting from any outsiders.

                And that’s before we even get into the details of baathist control. ISIS didn’t invent fear you know.

                All I’m saying is put your weird little prejudgements aside, face facts.

                The Putin plan will lead to what? Play it out for me. You are talking about genocide mate. That’s the end game for regime opponents. there is no other way for the regime to survive, as the rebels will. not. quit. They are done with Assad, they would rather join ISIS for now than go back to Assad. So how do you see Assad winning mate, come on.

                i just don’t see why it is ok if the bombs come from the yanks or the poms

                Where did I say that? I didn’t, so stop making shit up.

                I’m remembering why I hardly come here anymore.

                • Colonial Viper

                  “Why shoudln;t we support Assad? Coz he is at war with his own people, and would be losing if not for Iranian and russian support which is far greater than the foriegn support the rebels are getting from any outsiders.”

                  you’re a fool. The US has just approved a further $500M in rebel funding to take out a sovereign government, which is blatantly illegal. Turkey, a NATO country allows millions of dollars of ISIS oil to cross its borders every day.

                  In fact you should ask yourself what is going on in Syria that the Christians, Alawite, Druze and Shia minorities are backing Assad to the hilt.

                  Unlike faraway Western spectators, they know that if ISIS, or al-Nusra, or Ahrar ash-Sham or any of the other “moderate Sunni terrorists” that the West supports (including the ones who killed the parachuting Russian pilot then said on camera that they should have burned him – like was done to the Jordanian pilot) actually defeated Assad and took power, all their families and villages would be torched or enslaved.

                • Colonial Viper

                  in fact, you’re not just a fool, you’re a fool who claims to respect facts but in fact shits on facts.

                  Assad ran a highly secular, highly educated society, had women in university professorships and as Government Ministers.

                  But Islamist Wahabi and salafist sympathisers in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE had had enough of that, and the US wanted Libya in total chaos like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, and so here we are.

                  If those “moderate terrorists terrorists” defeat Assad and takeover Syria, it’ll be the end of civilised life for women in that country, and for every ethnic and religious minority too.

                  You’re not a defender of the people, you are a defender of bloody chaos.

                  • Assad ran a highly secular, highly educated society, had women in university professorships and as Government Ministers.

                    So did Josef Stalin. The above points are entirely compatible with being a murderous dictator who rules via well-justified fear of torture and death – being someone like Bashar Al-Assad, for instance. Your apologias for such people make me hope the Labour Party never has you in any official position, ever.

                • greywarshark

                  I think your milk got curdled Pascalls Bookie.
                  Something seems to be off in your thinking, unlike in the past.
                  CV seems to have a coherent argument re Syria, and thats not saying it is correct, everything is s.it there with incompatible competing sides.

                  And this link that OAB put up is the sort of bad news that drives us mad, particularly when good intentioned lefties go bad too.
                  http://grist.org/food/2010-01-15-drought-drives-middle-eastern-peppers/

                  • Pascals bookie

                    Nah. CV is full of shit, as per.

                    Notice he still can’t bring himself to mention the hospitals being bombed by his legitimate govt, or the brread factories, or the cities.

                    Notice he hasn’t mentioned the thousands of Hezbollah and Iraqi shia militia that have been propping up his secular hero, or the mention the fact about which side has killed the most, or the barrel bombs, or the fact that the west hasn’t sctually been bombing Assad. ( the cia’s programme insisted fighters had to focus solely on ISIS, which is why t was such a failure, the Syrian people have largely had it with Assad, Hence the war, it’s not some dirty trick pulled by foreign agents. It’s a genuine uprising. Baath states are police states. Seriously, you can look it up. CV doesn’t mind that as they are ‘secualr’ so he loves them like he loves his Russian hero Putin)

                    If Assad is so popular, if he had a mandate, he would have won long ago. people are fleeing Assad. He decided that he’d rather the country burn than he step down. He started bombing cities. This radicalises an opposition.

                    CV admits he doesn’t read from a wide variety of sources, it shows.

                    • Pascals bookie

                      And you’ll notice CV will never mention any of this stuff either:

                      Well documented that Assad released extremist Jihadis from jail, as is his tactical co-operation with ISIS (ignoring their gains while squeezing kurdish and other oppionents agaisnt them)

                      CV simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

                    • Pascals bookie

                      But several months before Abu Issa was released, he and a large group of other jihadis were moved from their isolation cells elsewhere in the country and flown to Aleppo’s main prison, where they enjoyed a more communal and comfortable life. “It was like a hotel,” he said. “We couldn’t believe it. There were cigarettes, blankets, anything you wanted. You could even get girls.” Soon the detainees were puzzled by another prison oddity, the arrival of university students who had been arrested in Aleppo for protesting against the Assad regime.

                      “They were kids with posters and they were being sent to prison with the jihadis,” he said. “One of them was a communist and he talked about his views to everyone. There was a guy from al-Qaida in the prison and he was usually very polite but he got angry with this guy. He said if he saw him again he would kill him.” Abu Issa and the other Islamist detainees soon formed the view that they had been moved to the Aleppo prison for a reason – to instil a harder ideological line into the university students, who back then were at the vanguard of the uprising in Syria’s largest city.

                      On the same day that Abu Issa and many of his friends were released, the Lebanese government, which is supported by Damascus, also freed more than 70 jihadis, many of whom had been convicted of terrorism offences and were serving lengthy terms. The release puzzled western officials in Beirut who had been monitoring the fates of many of the accused jihadis in Lebanon’s jails for more than four years. Some had been directly linked to a deadly jihadi uprising in the Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp in July 2007, which led to 190 Lebanese soldiers being killed in battle and much of the camp destroyed. The claim that the Syrian regime aided the rise of extremism to splinter the opposition and reaffirm its own narrative that the war was all about terrorism in the first place has been widely repeated throughout the past five years. It is a central grievance of the mainstream opposition in Syria’s north, which says it lost more than 1,500 of its men ousting Isis from Idlib and Aleppo in early 2014. At the same time as the opposition was fighting the jihadis, the Syrian regime, which did not intervene, was able to advance around the city for the first time in the war. “There was no other reason for Salafi jihadis to be in that jail, and for the students to be with us,” said Abu Issa, who now lives in exile in Turkey. “They wanted them to be radicalised. If this stayed as a street protest, it would have toppled [the regime] within months, and they knew it.”

                      What was CV’s secular hero doing? Did they dreaded West force him to put jihadis into confinement with detained leftwing rebels? Did the west *make* him then give an amnesty to radical slafists and release them all from Jail so that they would futher radicalise the opposition?

                      What was going on? It’s almost like Assad is an arsehole who is playing dupes like CV like fiddles.

                  • Pascals bookie

                    Oh , and the conservative estimate for Iranian support for Assad during the war is around $6B PA, just to put CV’s “you’re a fool. The US has just approved a further $500M in rebel funding” in conext.

                    You’ll note that I never said there wasn’t foreign support for rebels, I said the regime was getting much more. Is anyone giving the rebels air support BTW? Oh yeah, nope, hence the barrel bombings at will, and the destryed cities, which CV turns his eyes away from.

              • nadis

                Sabine: You’re right about the current situation, but don’t ever believe Syria was not one of the worst humans rights blackspots on the globe before the current “troubles”.

                Not much has changed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_massacre

                That might be a clue as to why muslims of the non-Assad variety hate the regime so much.

  7. Penny Bright 7

    Seen this?

    FYI

    “M E D I A R E L E A S E

    Academic freedom under attack
    30 Nov 2015

    The police constraints on Dr Jarrod Gilbert’s research on gangs are an example of widespread and long-lasting restrictions on academic research contracts that are funded by government departments.

    Contracted research routinely exercises strict control over the entire project, including many aspects of project methodology, the data gathered, interpretation, and final write-up. In particular, funding agencies regularly hoard the reports and limit the opportunities for researchers to publish their studies.

    Contract providers often demand the right to approve the content of researchers’ publications and presentations, before the academic can go public with their studies and can simply deny approval if they wish.

    In effect, the funders control both the project and the researcher.

    The problem is that research is seen as a commodity that can be bought and owned, rather than information that should be freely available for serious inquiry and the public good.

    QPEC sees two problems arising from Dr Gilbert’s case. One is that it may well be remembered and treated just as the “police issue” or the “gangs issue,” when it is actually indicative of a deep-seated injustice that runs right across the tertiary education sector.

    The second is the danger to the role of tertiary institutions as “critic and conscience of society.” Media reports rightly recall this item as a clause in the Education Act of 1989. But the current Government has started moves to review the Act. It has already restructured tertiary institution councils to ensure extensive control by government. And it clearly countenances restraints on scientists’ right to make public statements.

    In other words, academic freedom is at stake.

    QPEC considers that the restrictions on Dr Gilbert’s research represent a serious threat to scholarship in New Zealand, which could be addressed by a model of funded research designed to serve the public interest.

    Dr David Cooke
    Vice-President, QPEC

    ________________________________________________________________________________

  8. RedBaronCV 8

    What do we have to do to have a justice system in this country?
    Another right wing stitch up by the looks of it.

    The malaysian diplomat on trial in Welllington has offered a guilty plea to one charge ( presumably the least serious).
    The prosecution (crown solicitor) offered no evidence on the other two charges so the judge had to discharge them. Must have been a discussion between the two sides who have sold the complainant down the river. Did they even ask about her views on this deal – I assume not after all the boys know best?

    Now the defence are going to ask for a discharge without conviction for the guilty plea.
    WTF yes you heard correctly.

    So in this country you can go into someone’s house, take your clothes off and try to assault them. You can then be shipped out of the country without anyone taking responsibility for that. When you are brought back you then do a deal to ensure that effectively nothing happens to you.
    The complainant on the other hand is abused, reabused by the police and MFAT and now reabused by our courts, the police and the crown solicitor.
    Where the hell is the justice for her.
    All she will have had is months of stress and anxiety over the whole issue.

    • veutoviper 8.1

      Sorry RedBaronCV, but I disagree somewhat with the interpretation you have put on the outcome of this morning’s court hearing, based on radio and media reports I have heard/read so far.

      IMO. RNZ News provides a much more balanced and detailed report on what happened and the outcome of this morning. While the defendant’s lawyers have asked for a discharge without conviction on the charge of indecent assault to which he pleaded guilty on the grounds of mental illness, this has not yet been accepted, with a disputed facts hearing to take place in the High Court on Friday.
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/290901/diplomat-naked-below-waist,-court-told

      Also, here are links to The Herald and Stuff reports to date:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11553365
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/74473320/military-attache-pleads-guilty-to-indecent-assault-in-wellington

      The guilty plea to the indecent assault charge was only made public this morning, but was presumably discussed/agreed last week at the two pre-trial hearings held in the Wellington High Court on Monday and Thursday.

      The trial that started this morning was originally set down as a jury trial scheduled for two weeks’ duration with Ms Billingsley and others due to appear as witnesses. The dropping of the other two charges and the guilty plea to the indecent assault charge presumably means that Tania and others will now not have to go through the stress of appearing. We don’t know Ms Billingsley’s reaction to the guilty plea etc but she may well have been kept in the picture during the pre-trial hearings and her views sought.

      So lets not rush into condemning the Crown prosecutors, the court etc until a little more is known and the case reaches a conclusion/decision. As a woman who has been in a similar/worse situation, I obviously want to see justice for Tania; but I also believe in due process and the rights of the defendant to also be heard.

      UPDATE – Stuff article has been updated and is reporting that Tania is thrilled with the guilty plea.

      • RedBaronCV 8.1.1

        I have no problem with the guilty plea and the dropping of the other two charges if that is what the complainant wanted and she had been given adequate legal assistance to help her with her decision – I understand that these cases when defended aren’t pretty but asking for a discharge without conviction is a bit much. I too believe that a defendant has the right to be heard and did not say otherwise. I am mindful of other cases where the deals have been offered over charges- some have not been accepted but if they had then there would have been very little justice for the complainant. She had already had decisions made for her when he wasn’t originally charged and we have the example of the Pike River court cases where the families really didn’t get a word in. Hate to have a repeat of that

  9. Penny Bright 9

    FYI …..

    TIME TO ‘BLOW THE WHISTLE’ ON TRANSPARENCY INTERNATIONAL’S ‘CORRUPTION PERCEPTION INDEX’?

    30 November 2015

    TIME TO ‘BLOW THE WHISTLE’ ON TRANSPARENCY INTERNATIONAL’S ‘CORRUPTION PERCEPTION INDEX’?

    I think so.

    In my considered opinion, Transparency International’s ‘Corruption Perception Index’ is not worth the paper upon which it is written.

    What makes it VERY difficult for New Zealand anti-corruption ‘whistle-blowers’, is the ‘perception’ that New Zealand is (now) the second ‘least corrupt country in the world’.

    https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

    But how ‘transparent’ is the data upon which Transparency International base their ‘Corruption Perception Index’?

    My understanding is that Transparency International’s ‘Corruption Perception Index’ is based upon the subjective opinions of anonymous businesspeople.

    What are the Corruption Reality FACTS about New Zealand?

    1) NZ has STILL not ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC).

    https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/CAC/signatories.html

    The recently passed legislation, (arising from the Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill), which was required before NZ could ratify UNCAC, still allows ‘facilitation payments’ – ie. BRIBES.

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/whole.html#DLM32876

    105C Bribery of foreign public official

    3) This section does not apply if—

    (a) the act that is alleged to constitute the offence was committed for the sole or
    primary purpose of ensuring or expediting the performance by a foreign public
    official of a routine government action; and

    (b) the value of the benefit is small.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________
    (My evidence, which was presented in person to the Law and Order Select Committee, which was considering the (then) Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill:

    http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/51SCLO_EVI_00DBHOH_BILL56502_1_A422096/1e3ea2de32e664e9aa1c1306288f8b011c3d5ab7

    http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/51SCLO_EVI_00DBHOH_BILL56502_1_A422097/acac7e6b153bc419820082929f9767ab0f040c5e

    2) NZ does not have an independent anti-corruption body, tasked with educating the public and preventing corruption.

    3) NZ members of Parliament (whom make the rules for everyone else) do not themselves have an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’.

    4) It is not an offence under the Local Government Act 2002, for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

    5) It is not a lawful, mandatory requirement for Local Government elected representatives to complete a ‘Register of Interests’ which is available for public scrutiny.

    6) It is not a lawful, mandatory requirement for Local Government staff, responsible for property or procurement, to complete a ‘Register of Interests’ which is available for public scrutiny.

    7) It is not a lawful, mandatory requirement for Local Government Council Controlled Organisation (CCO) Directors and staff, responsible for property or procurement, to complete a ‘Register of Interests’ which is available for public scrutiny.

    8) The Public Records Act 2005, (section 3 (c) ‘Purposes of Act’
    whose stated purpose is:

    “to enable the Government to be held accountable by—

    (i) ensuring that full and accurate records of the affairs of central and local government are created and maintained; and

    (ii) providing for the preservation of, and public access to, records of long-term value; …”

    is not being fully implemented and enforced, across NZ central and local government.

    9) It is not a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit’ analysis of NZ Central Government and Local Government public finances must be undertaken, to prove that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in house’ is cost-effective for the public majority of tax payers and rate payers.

    10) There is not a legally enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure that they are not ‘above the law’.

    11) There is no lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    12)All NZ Court proceedings are currently not recorded, with audio records available to parties who request them.

    13) There is no lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists, or ‘Code of Conduct’ for lobbyists.

    14) There is no lawful requirement for a ‘post-separation employment’ (‘revolving door’ ) quarantine period from the time officials leave the public service, to take up a similar role in the private sector.

    15) It is not a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ central or local government are sold, or long-term leased via Public Private Partnerships.

    16) It is not unlawful for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to central or local government elections.

    17) There are currently no NZ laws which protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations, who are ‘whistle-blowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and and alleged corrupt practices at central and local government level and within the judiciary.

    18) There is no legislation which prevents ‘State Capture’ – where vested interests get what they want, at the ‘policy’ level, before laws are passed which serve their vested interests.

    ………..
    ______________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2014 G20 Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2015 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    • nadis 9.1

      “1) NZ has STILL not ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC).”

      Luckily such exemplars as Kazakhstan, Bangladesh, Venezuela. Ivory Coast, Myanmar, Nauru, Russia, Serbia, Turkmenistan, Zimbabwe, Yemen, Ukraine, Sudan, South Sudan, Albania, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Congo, Ethiopia, Liberia etc.

      We have much to learn from such fine examples of how to behave in a non-corrupt fashion.

  10. The Chairman 10

    Sicilian Mafia offers Big Apple Protection from ISIS

  11. An interesting article about Turkey’s possible reasons for shooting down the Russian plane by Gwynne Dyer.

    Too many agendas, too many opportunities to play those agendas off against each other.

  12. The Chairman 12

    Cunliffe demoted.

    Douglas and Bassett on the invite list.

    What sort of message does that give you?

    Thoughts?

  13. northshoredoc 13

    The herald continues to publish misleading drivel on medical issues..

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11553026

    – perhaps they should just stick to the tabloid stuff on the rich and famous they seem to favour these days.

    • BM 13.1

      Why is this nonsense?

      • McFlock 13.1.1

        For one thing, it scream to me like it’s an ad.
        Big claims made on the basis of anecdata and roundworm models, no downsides mentioned, repeated use of brand name… oh, and the clickbait headline

        I wonder if a venture capitalist has just bought metformin shares?

  14. Rosemary McDonald 14

    “Have a good day at work dear….see you later…”

    Not necessarily in New Zealand….

    yet another workplace fatality…

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/74565304/Man-dies-after-fuel-tank-explodes-in-Waikato

    “To November 18, 35 people have been killed in workplace accidents nationwide in 2015.

    That number is understood to be 37 with the latest fatalities.

    November 25: a 54-year-old man dies in a workplace accident in Mangere involving a truck.

    November 5: A 30-year-old male miner dies after an industrial accident at a gold mine in Southland.

    October 23: One person is dead after a farm bike crash in rural Gisborne.

    October 2: A person is killed in what’s believed to be a crushing incident by a truck on a worksite in Whangarei.

    September 20: Zoo curator Samantha Kudeweh is killed by a Sumatran tiger while she was working at Hamilton Zoo.

    September 15: Jamey Lee Bowring, 24, of Huntly, dies after a massive explosion at hazardous waste company Salters Cartage in Wiri.

    September 9: Laurence Gerard Schwabe, of Kawerau, is killed while tree-felling in Tuhoe Forest, between Murupara and Whakatane.

    September 6: Dairy farmer Ian Totty, 72, died after falling 4.8 metres from a barn roof in Staveley, near Methven.

    August 28: Farm worker Russell Brooker, 45, is killed when his quad bike rolls into a drain on his Puketaha farm.

    August 27: Mechanic Robert George Wallace is killed at a truck repair yard in Oamaru.

    August 10: A rubbish truck overturned and rolled 15 metres down a bank on Auckland’s North Shore, killing one person and leaving another with moderate injuries.

    August 6: Oamaru farmer Greg Fallon, dies in a tractor accident just outside of Oamaru.

    July 5: Rebecca Anne Cunningham Byars, 32, dies in an accident on the family farm in Clements Rd, Kaiwera.

    June 8: Quarry boss Murray Taylor, 56, is buried by rock in his excavator at the Heathstock Haulage limeworks in Waikari, North Canterbury.

  15. Morrissey 15

    Yet another undeclared National Party implant on The Panel.
    RNZ National, Monday 30 November 2015
    Jesse Mulligan, Clare de Lore, Bernard Hickey, Zoe George

    Making her début on RNZ’s light chat show The Panel this afternoon is one Clare de Lore, billed by host Jesse Mulligan as a “journalist”. In fact, there is much more important information about her that Mulligan—or more likely his producers—decided not to tell the audience: she is married to the former deputy prime minister Sir Don McKinnon, a National Party grandee.

    Clare de Lore therefore joins a long list of National Party insiders that have been granted a soapbox on this programme, usually without either them or the host informing us. The list is long and makes depressing reading. It includes, among others: John Bishop, Joanne Black, Michele Boag, Jane Clifton, David Farrar, Stephen Franks, Garth George (R.I.P.), Richard Griffin, Claudette Hauiti, Tau Henare, Deborah Hill Cone, Sam Johnson, Neil Miller, Chris Wikaira…. ad nauseam….

    • Rosemary McDonald 15.1

      “Making her début ..” should maybe read…”Drawing the short straw to trumpet the National Party line on RNZ…”

      They must get quite dizzy…all that spinning…

    • Chris 15.2

      And the one or two from the left? Mike (I agree with Matthew) Williams; Brian (Michelle’s my mate) Edwards; Bomber Bradbury (oh, that’s right, got kicked off for being too left); Chris (face of the respectable left) Trotter; Josie (I’m in the wrong party) Pagani… . Says as much about Mora’s so-called panel as it does the state of the left in New Zealand. Maybe it’s because Mora hasn’t got too much to work with?

      • Morrissey 15.2.1

        Then there are the “liberal comedians” like Jeremy Elwood and Andrew Clay, who spend their whole time on the programme trying to curry favour with the likes of Stephen Franks, Jack Anderson and Graham Bell.

  16. Morrissey 16

    Black Lives Matter is a “hate group”, according to the loons at Fox News

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/11/25/how-cable-news-covered-white-supremacists-alleg/207098

  17. Morrissey 17

    Hosking holds court, as his underlings dutifully guffaw at his deliberate faux pas;
    No Mihi Forbes, no John Campbell—but THESE jackasses are still on TV every night.

    Television One News (final minute) and When Hilary Met Oprah, TV3, 7 p.m.
    Monday 30 November 2015

    grovel n. to humble oneself or act in an abject manner, as in great fear or utter servility.

    6:59 p.m. The Television One news is winding to a close, but the groveling is only getting started. An ill-at-ease Thunderbird puppet swivels in his chair and addresses the coiffured, preening star of the upcoming show….

    SIMON DALLOW: Coming up on Seven Sharp, an interview with Michael Bublé. I’ll bet you’re a fan, Mike!
    MIKE “KING OF CONTRA” HOSKING: Oooh yeah! Everybody likes the Boobs!

    …..Pregnant pause….

    SIMON DALLOW: Oh ho ho ho ho ho ho!
    TONI STREET: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    WENDY “FIST PUMPER” PETRIE: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    SIMON DALLOW: That was your David Seymour moment!
    MIKE “KING OF CONTRA” HOSKING: A few minutes back on the job and I’m already in trouble!
    WENDY “FIST PUMPER” PETRIE: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    SIMON DALLOW: Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho!
    TONI STREET: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    I cut away from that rubbish to have a look at what was happening on TV3. Incredibly, it was even more cringe-inducing than watching Hosking’s hapless underlings perform their duty. Hilary Barry had been granted an audience with Her Majesty Oprah Winfrey; this was a publicity exercise for Oprah’s forthcoming visit to New Zealand. Barry, embarrassingly, gushed about how nervous she was; Oprah responded by offering to give her a reassuring hug. After that, Oprah did all the talking. Hilary Barry’s part consisted of gazing at her with a desperate intensity, not even pretending to be an interviewer, but playing the demeaning role of awe-struck and reverential devotee.

    But no matter how much she may have been forced to debase herself before Oprah Winfrey, it still beats her day job….

    Open mike 18/09/2015

    Open mike 27/05/2015

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