Open mike 31/01/2023

92 comments on “Open mike 31/01/2023 ”

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1. Ad 1

   31 January 2023 at 8:28 am

   I was going to do a post on the reshuffle and redirection. Hopefully someone posts on it.
   • Shanreagh 1.1

     31 January 2023 at 8:30 am

     Still thinking of you, Ad, & hoping things are edging towards water and access for you and others out west.
2. Ad 2

   31 January 2023 at 8:31 am

   Water restored, power restored, broadband restored.

   Street still fully bisected by slips.

   Stay-at-home orders from work.

   Harbour Bridge likely to shut soon.
   • weka 2.1

     31 January 2023 at 9:54 am

     what's happening with the bridge?
     • Mac1 2.1.1

       31 January 2023 at 10:25 am

       RNZ said high winds. Also this. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/01/nz-weather-transport-agency-warns-auckland-harbour-bridge-could-close-as-city-prepares-for-high-winds.html
       • Belladonna 2.1.1.1

         31 January 2023 at 1:40 pm

         Fairly standard closure in high winds – ever since the truck toppled and damaged the structure.

         But, not closed yet (winds pretty gusty on the Shore, though) – apparantly anticiating greater wind strength from 6pm this evening

         https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/01/nz-weather-transport-agency-warns-auckland-harbour-bridge-could-close-as-city-prepares-for-high-winds.html
         • Mac1 2.1.1.1.1

           31 January 2023 at 1:55 pm

           My best wishes to all in the North. Been through fires and floods so have some idea of our need for communal, kindly and timely responses. My vege gardens help stave off famines…….. possibly a reason why my ancestors came to NZ, that land of school milk and honey, meat and three vegs.
3. weka 3

   31 January 2023 at 10:32 am

   Anyone who has any opinion on gender identity and trans politics, needs to read this thread. This is not an outlier, there are many people, men and women, in Ritchie's situation. Some people have medical/surgical transition, it works (to the extent it can) and they're happy. Others end up with lifelong impairment, pain, depression.

   The left in its No Debate position has marginalised and tried to render invisible the latter group. Detrans people struggle to get the medical care they are now dependent on, pro-transition doctors and medical systems either ignore them or don't know what to do. It's a massive medical scandal happening on the left's watch.

   Ritchie is a man who transitioned medically and surgically, then later regretted this and is trying to find a way to live with his intensely altered body and biochemistry. Please read the whole thread,

   https://twitter.com/TullipR/status/1620145374639050754

   https://twitter.com/TullipR/status/1620145380259409921
   • weka 3.1

     31 January 2023 at 10:34 am

     https://twitter.com/TullipR/status/1620145386051747841
4. Molly 4

   31 January 2023 at 12:03 pm

   Article came through on Twitter feed from a previous member of the XR Media and Messaging Team. I found it interesting, posting link for others.

   (Comes from a place where genuine concerns were ignored.)

   https://www.thefp.com/p/climate-activism-has-a-cult-problem
   • Anker 4.1

     31 January 2023 at 7:00 pm

     Interesting perspective. Thanks Molly
5. bwaghorn 5

   31 January 2023 at 12:29 pm

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/131100221/firearms-licence-fee-could-rise-by-almost-500

   I would suggest that it's far better to have all gun owners in the fire arms license system than try have licensing cover the cost.

   A 500% raise in costs will surely drive guns underground
   • Maurice 5.1

     31 January 2023 at 1:09 pm

     When Police released their consultation document on the proposed increased gun licence and other related fees, gun owners were quick to realise they provided no explanation as to how the new fees were derived.

     An Official Information Act (OIA) requesting that this information be provided, so that they could assess whether the new fees were fair and reasonable

     With only just three weeks remaining of the consultation period they have received a reply from Police refusing the request.

     The reason given for the refusal is that the Police will be making this information publicly available in the future.

     "In the next few weeks, as part of the consultation on options for changes in firearmslicence fees, Police will be proactively releasing information on the costing methodology used, and the breakdown of how various options for the licence fees have been calculated. This will cover the information that you have sought in your request."

     Too late no doubt to influence submissions on these exorbitant fee increases, which close on 16 February.

     How can this consultation be described as meaningful, when vital data is held back to the last minute.

     Also

     New PM Hipkins is making noise about both inflation and cost of living.

     The more seen of the 'inflation'/'cost of living' approach to the new fees resonates as a viable parallel consideration.

     The questions to be asked are

     1) are these massive fee increases wildly inflationary?

     2) How do they affect the cost of living of the people that Police propose to inflicted these increased fees upon upon

     3) Is this Government Policy or are Police out of control?

     Bluntly: Does the Finance Minister and the Prime Minister support these punitive fee increases?

     During his first post-Cabinet press conference as prime minister, PM Hipkins reiterated that his focus would be set firmly on inflation and the cost of living.

     The huge firearms fees are most certainly tied to both.

     The economic effects of such HUGE increases are grave and they were proposed when Hipkins was Minister of Police

     Questions in the House are warranted along the lines

     "Does he condone or support such massive cost increases?"

     "What was his involvement in this proposed increase?"

     "Does he think this is 'fair'?"
     • woodart 5.1.1

       31 January 2023 at 5:40 pm

       seems cheap. my sport of choice asks $350 a yr for license, and it isnt dangerous for users or non-users.nobody has ever stolen my sports equipment for criminal purposes, and my sporting equipment doesnt effect my insurance premiums, or need to be locked away.. what are they whinging about?never thought that gun lovers would sound like entitled snow flakes, hah!
   • Shanreagh 5.2

     31 January 2023 at 2:00 pm

     Surely if the cost of a licence has not been increased for 20 years some increase is necessary.

     Many of us have hobbies. The membership costs look very different when multiplied by five. One of my hobbies costs $75.00pa. When you multiply it by 5 you get $375.00. I belong to a food 'circle' costing $12.00 pw $624pa.

     And we don't work with a potential deadly weapon where there are reguistration costs that involve scrutinising bona fides.

     While it is an argument that to increase the costs of a licence may drive shooters underground perhaps this has been overstated? In my studies of criminology I don't think that fees increases is a precursor to becoming a criminal. I think the die is cast by other things.

     Wouldn't gun licensing authorities investigate to see why a licence has not been renewed?

     Perhaps one way of doing it could be to allow time period of 2 years, 3 year 5 years and 10 years.

     The 2 & 3 year licences could be a proportion of the 5 year licence but not a straight mathematical division as costs lessen per annum with a longer term.
     • Corey Humm 5.2.1

       31 January 2023 at 2:31 pm

       $500 for five years sounds reasonable to be honest but its too steep, and for many it will be, perhaps allow annual licences ie $100 a year.

       Although I'm still angry with Helen Clarks government for increasing the price of passports and decreasing the length they were eligible. That's was gross revenue gathering at it's worst.
       • Shanreagh 5.2.1.1

         31 January 2023 at 3:28 pm

         I 'reckon' no one yearly licences but two, three yearly ones

         2 yearly $225

         3 yearly $335

         5 yearly 527

         Often this will persuade a person to opt for the 5 yearly one with a bit of a push.
       • woodart 5.2.1.2

         31 January 2023 at 5:42 pm

         you should have been more pissed about jenny shipley converting lifetime passports back to five years.
       • Maurice 5.2.1.3

         1 February 2023 at 3:23 pm

         The new $500 fees are compared to Australia which have been similarly driven higher but compared to other similar countries ours are very much higher.

         The proposed fee is increased to massively more than comparable with UK and Canada with similar history

         Here is the UK fee structure: https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/fi/af/firearms-licensing/firearms-licensing-fees/

         90 pounds for firearms certificate with shotgun certificate ($NZ171.60)

         62 pounds for renewal ($NZ118.21)

         Canadian fees here: https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms/changes-service-fees

         PAL $CAN 62.42 ($NZ 72.65) for ordinary firearms

         RPAL $CAN 83.23 ($NZ 96.87) for restricted firearms
         • Maurice 5.2.1.3.1

           2 February 2023 at 8:05 pm

           Erratum: 500% increase [not $500 but $727.50]
           • Maurice 5.2.1.3.1.1

             2 February 2023 at 9:40 pm

             Police have now released some documents which show that $727.50 is 75% recovery so the proposed 100% recovery fee is $970.00 as the present fee is $126.50 the proposed 100% recovery increase is 767%

             If the present fee is so much different then why have no incremental increases been made in line with inflation as the Canadian fees are? [their fees are limited to that level of increase by legislation] – do we need something similar here?
     • Coventrie 5.2.2

       31 January 2023 at 4:29 pm

       As a farming person, a firearm is a necessary tool for rabbits and disposing of animals. There is no other pest control, if we don't keep rabbits down, we suffer the consequences. A larger firearms licensing fee would be a (sigh) further farming cost. Could the fee not be scaled somehow so those who have more workaday firearms needs pay less than those with bristling armouries who stalk out after large game animals…?
       • tWiggle 5.2.2.1

         31 January 2023 at 11:24 pm

         Tax-deductible expense on the farm, surely? I'd be keen on both gun-owners' registration cost, plus a lower fee per firearm, to discourage weapons stockpiling.
         • Maurice 5.2.2.1.1

           1 February 2023 at 12:02 am

           "weapons stockpiling" For goodness sake Police, Army and Criminals have "weapons" Licence holders have sporting equipment.

           To fully engage in the large number of shooting sports, with spare firearms to cover breakdowns, from 20 to 40 firearms may be required as each particular practice of the sport requires differing types of firearms. Then there is historical collecting with collections of firearms sometimes numbering in the hundreds. You want to make it prohibitively expensive for sports persons to participate in their chosen sporting pursuits to "discourage weapons stockpiling."?
     • Maurice 5.2.3

       31 January 2023 at 5:41 pm

       “Surely if the cost of a licence has not been increased for 20 years some increase is necessary.”

       The corollary of that is if it has not been increased for 20 years that is because it has not been necessary.

       In 2015 Police set about destroying the Mountain Safety Council volunteer system which had about 500 persons assisting the relicencing/firearms training/vetting procedures at very little cost to Police.

       Now there is a huge new empire being built within Police employing 400 plus highly paid persons with a large headquarters building and masses of bureaucrats.

       “Wouldn't gun licensing authorities investigate to see why a licence has not been renewed?

       Another Police failure when the “lifetime licence” was replaced with a ten year licence in the 1990’s when somewhere near 30,000 licences were not renewed and still to this day not completely followed up. One problem being that a licence person must notify changes of address but as soon a becoming unlicenced this requirement disappears and follow up in our mobile society becomes extremely problematic. At present Police are swamped with Licence reissue with long delays tying up resources so that there is simply not the ability – or will – to follow up those who simply drift away from the Licencing system.

       Police cannot cope with 10 year relicencing let alone shorter terms. The first issue of a licence is now for 5 years but that simply adds to the backlog when relicencing arrives.

       The Licence fee is just the beginning of the proposed charges Endorsements (pistol club/collector/pest control etc) up to $1,500ish. Range inspections, permission for gun shows, etc. etc. Even more fees of eye watering proportions. Dealer licences (one year term) up to $2,500ish. ALL eventually falling back upon the Licence holder.

       The cost of ALL this should be on the Community requesting the regime and that isn’t the Firearms Community. It appears to largely be a box ticking exercise by Police in reaction to their apparent failures prior to the Mosque Shooting.
       • KJT 5.2.3.1

         31 January 2023 at 10:00 pm

         "The cost of ALL this should be on the Community requesting the regime and that isn’t the Firearms Community."

         Why?

         It doesn't work that way for car or dog licencing. Why should firearms owners have the cost of fixing the mess, which is mostly the result of their lobbying over decades, inflicted on everyone else.

         There is an argument for reduced fees for pest controllers etc that are a community benefit.
         • Maurice 5.2.3.1.1

           31 January 2023 at 11:44 pm

           Driver’s Licence – required to permit use of vehicle on Public Roads and places accessible to the Public. No Driver’s Licence is required for ownership of vehicles nor for use on Private property. There is no requirement fo ar fit & proper test (other than for public conveyance) Administered by NZTA The fee for a Full Licence (class 2 to 5) is $49.60 with a test fee of $59.90 Total $109.50

           Dog Registration (NOT licencing) is a function of individual Councils. A Responsible Dog Owner License is issued without charge (it allows a discount on registration) to those who qualify as a responsible dog owner. A further permit is required for having two or more dogs on an urban property but not for rural with a fee of up to $81. The fees vary between Councils and type of dog https://ccc.govt.nz/the-council/plans-strategies-policies-and-bylaws/plans/long-term-plan-and-annual-plans/fees-and-charges/fees-animal-management/

           A Firearms Licence enables lawful possession of firearms; requires a fit & proper test and firearms are largely used privately and only transported in public. The purpose of the licence is to show fit & proper status for the safety of the Public. It is a public good. The price of a 10-year gun licence could increase from the present $126.50 to $727.50 application fee

           The “mess” you speak of has not been made by Firearms Owners lobbying it is almost entirely down to convoluted much amended law and Police administration which creates excessive bureaucratic processes that do not increase public safety in my considered opinion.
           • KJT 5.2.3.1.1.1

             2 February 2023 at 5:05 pm

             not been made by Firearms Owners lobbying

             Of course it was. the dogs breakfast of ineffective gun laws we had until recently, was entirely the result of firearms owners lobbying for ineffectual gun laws.

             The argument for public good applies even more to dog licencing as it is almost entirely paid by 'responsible dog owners' to meet the public cost of strays and irresponsible dog owners. However guns in the hands of 'irresponsible owners' are obtained from, so called 'responsible owners' since individual gun registration was discontinued. Without the gun lobby we would not have our current problem with so many unregistered guns out there, which will take many years to fix.
             • Maurice …

               2 February 2023 at 7:37 pm

               NONSENSE!

               The present firearms law is even MORE of a dogs breakfast as it is another amendment tacked on top of previous amendments right back to 1983 Arms Act – which BTW cancelled the ineffective 'registration' system which had been in use since 1926. Shotgun registration was abandoned very soon after 1926 as unworkable and impossible – so for the last 90 years shotguns have not been registered and for 40 years rifles have not been recorded either.

               The Gun Lobby did not exist then as it sprung in to being with the 1991 Amendments so they had nothing to do with the abandonment of registration.

               Registration is no panacea for in Australia only about 20% of firearms have been registered since 1996 – the rest just 'disappeared' on to the Grey market. The lesson has been well and truly taught in New Zealand with the MSSA buy back which was only possible because those firearms were recorded. Indeed one 'gun lobby' now has "Registration leads to confiscation" as its catch cry.

               It is an unfortunate fact that Police have lost the trust of many in the firearms community. Even more so with the present proposed escalation of Fees!
               • KJT …

                 5 February 2023 at 7:12 pm

                 The Gun Lobby did not exist then a

                 Nonsense.

                 How old are you? Twenty!

                 As for Australian gun laws being “ineffective”.

                 https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2018/03/13/gun-laws-stopped-mass-shootings-in-australia.html
                 “In the 18 years up to and including the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, there were 13-gun homicides in which five or more people died, not including the perpetrator. In the 22 years since, there have been no such incidents.”
                 • Maurice …

                   5 February 2023 at 7:39 pm

                   Nope – not twenty. Hell! I wuz there … just a disparate group of concerned firearms licence holders till 1990

                   As to Australia coincidence is not causation. The alternate view is that no one has emerged who wants to kill five or more people with a firearm. The British in testing the single shot Martini found that lining up victims allowed 7 to 11 deaths with ONE shot – depending upon how robust the bodies were (their words).

                   This tends to indicate that rapid fire is not a prerequisite – how ever horrible that example is – they did do it when testing their new military rifle way back then.
                   • KJT …

                     5 February 2023 at 8:06 pm

                     Coincidence is not causation.

                     Mighty big coincidence. Most of the researchers disagree with you.

                     Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings | Injury Prevention (bmj.com)

                     ” to 11 deaths with ONE shot”
                     How to blow your credibility even more.

                     How many mass shooting victims co-operatively line up to be shot with a High powered rifle. FIFY.
                   • Maurice …

                     5 February 2023 at 8:38 pm

                     Then again – quoting that paper has been problematic

                     https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3086324

                     Abstract

                     In 1996 Australia implemented arguably the most ambitious gun control effort ever attempted, banning all semiauto rifles and shotguns and all pump-action rifles and shotguns, and buying the banned guns already in circulation. Chapman, Alpers, and Jones (2016) produced what is arguably the most extensive evaluation, concluding that the measure was a success. In fact, their own data indicated that the effort failed to reduce homicides, suicides, or unintentional firearms deaths. It is even questionable whether the effort reduced mass shootings, the problem that had triggered the gun control effort in the first place.

                     Will leave you to read the rest of the critique
                   • KJT …

                     6 February 2023 at 7:06 am

                     Except it wasn't the only piece of research.

                     Unlike you I didn't cherry pick when looking at the research.

                     The stats are conclusive. Along with the many research papers world wide on gun control.

                     Unless you are a gun nut?
                   • Maurice …

                     6 February 2023 at 10:17 am

                     Care to list all this "research" you tout?

                     I am a research nut and look as clearly as possible at both sides.

                     There are plenty of refutations in BOTH directions finding exactly that which the researchers set out to find – the result before the research in many instances with sound bites from that research used in argument. The World is full of nuts of both pro and anti anything.

                     The manipulation of statistics is an art form and remember: “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics” — has been attributed to Mark Twain, who himself attributed it to British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, who might never have said it in the first place.

                     Keep some balance and please do not resort to name calling!
       • tWiggle 5.2.3.2

         31 January 2023 at 11:30 pm

         Again, if a gunholder's license is needed for your work, it is arguably a tax-deductible business expense.
         • Maurice 5.2.3.2.1

           1 February 2023 at 12:04 am

           Most licences are for private non-commercial sporting use and voluntary pest control. Over half of pest control is done by itinerant unpaid volunteers. THAT is a public good in and of itself. No costs tax deductible.
           • left for dead 5.2.3.2.1.1

             1 February 2023 at 8:01 am

             That is a fact.
   • gsays 5.3

     31 January 2023 at 2:31 pm

     The thing is used to be complimentary, it needn't cost. The Mountain Safety Council used to administer it. Plus they ran the firearms courses.

     But (scuse me while I struggle up on my hobby horse), what else can you expect from a neo-liberal police force? They can sub-contract the work while clipping the ticket.

     There is also an issue of trust. We have to trust who they trust, recently that hasn't been so flash…

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/130968941/police-officers-surprised-at-appointment-of-former-top-cop-to-new-role
     • tWiggle 5.3.1

       31 January 2023 at 11:47 pm

       Don't think it's much to do with 'neo-liberal' cops. Twenty-five years ago we were a high-trust society with strong community policing.Those community police had time to check out individuals applying for licenses. Each one probably took a half day's work at least, unless the person was well known to the constable. All part of the community policing service, helping to keep an eye out.

       Police funding cut-backs, by guess-which governments, drained police out of rural areas and community policing. Meantime, we've had half a million migrants, at least, pour into NZ, many from low-trust societies. Or, very occasionally, with a hidden agenda, as in our own mosque shooter.

       Consider the fee as the cost, in real terms, of the previous community police vetting process, when it was fully-funded and working properly. Nothing 'neo-lib', more like bracing 'user-pays'.
       • Maurice 5.3.1.1

         1 February 2023 at 10:13 am

         "more like bracing 'user-pays'"

         The supposed purpose of this bureaucratic nonsense is to promote Public safety for all, as that is the case then the government should pay the lions share from the public purse. The licence holders are NOT the user of this system it has been imposed upon them to promote Public Safety. Indeed bona fide licence holders do not threaten public safety – the criminal missusers of firearms do that!
         • KJT 5.3.1.1.1

           2 February 2023 at 5:11 pm

           Where do the 'criminal users' get their guns? how many sold by 'responsible licenced gun owners since individual gun registration ceased?

           not to mention the 'responsible licenced gun owners' who were, until they started shooting people!
           • Maurice 5.3.1.1.1.1

             2 February 2023 at 7:11 pm

             Gangs do not get firearms from responsible firearms licence holders because back in 2016 it was revealed:

             In April 2016, the Police identified 29 firearm licence holders who were members of a New Zealand adult gang.

             https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/police-aware-that-29-gang-members-have-gun-licenses/#:~:text=In%20April%202016%2C%20the%20Police,since%20been%20revoked%20or%20surrendered.

             Still some had them in 2021

             https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/436709/act-questions-why-more-gang-members-getting-firearms-licence

             Numerous associates also have been issued licences AFTER being "rigorously" vetted by Police!

             Very few people shoot others in New Zealand – an even smaller number of those can in any way be called fit and proper licence holders. Most of the shootings are gang/drug related. It often takes a great deal of research to find out what licence status the offender was – then mostly NOT licenced.

             Will search for links to data to post here much came from a yet unpublished Doctoral Thesis

             For now see this: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/112559564/the-homicide-report-gives-a-detailed-account-of-gun-violence-in-new-zealand

             “An unprecedented Stuff investigation has identified every homicide in New Zealand in the past 15 years, revealing the vast majority of those who kill with guns are unlicensed and their weapon of choice is often a .22 calibre rifle or shotgun.”

             “Of the 84 cases where we identified the killer’s licensing status, only 12 were legally permitted to own a gun.” [there were 105 cases over 15 years – so the status of 21 are unknown]

             So LESS than one a year attributable to licence firearms owners.
       • gsays 5.3.1.2

         1 February 2023 at 5:34 pm

         Funny, before the 4th Labour government and their 'reforms' I hadn't heard the term user pays. It's neo-liberal as. As is sub-contracting the work needed to be done.
6. Macro 6

   31 January 2023 at 2:33 pm

   All roads across the Coromandel are now impassable. Latest image of SH 25A the Kopu – Hikuai Road.

   
   • Drowsy M. Kram 6.1

     31 January 2023 at 4:20 pm

     When is VFF going to get in on the Act of bemoaning the loss of freedums during the current state of emergency. C'mon guys, here's how you do it.

     Auckland flood closes schools: Diocesan School for Girls principal ‘incredulous’ about communication from education authorities
     [31 January 2023]
     Act Party leader David Seymour believed principals should make the decision for themselves based on the needs of their community. “The Government forcing every Auckland school to close for a week because 20 schools are flood damaged is dictatorial, impractical, and infuriating,” he said.

     Auckland flooding: Govt’s ‘shambolic’ communication over school closures – Luxon [31 January 2023]

     "The state of emergency in Auckland should have been called earlier", and our Govt shouldn't have taken "a one-size-fits-all approach" – what were they thinking?!!!

     As for "shambolic", that sounds awfully familiar.

     Labour puts unions first by scrapping National Standards, leaving 'confusion' and 'shambles' – Bill English [31 October 2017]

     Watch: Simon Bridges calls Government 'absolute amateurs' after 'a torrid and incompetent, shambolic few days' [4 September 2018]

     Opinion: National's attacks not what we need right now [8 July 2020]
     The National Party's current difficulties can be summed up in one word: culture

     National has never renounced Dirty Politics and, until it does, it will not be able to draw a line under the past and move to a more constructive future.
     …
     Current leader Todd Muller said when he assumed the helm of the party that he was not "interested in opposition for opposition's sake. We're all tired of that kind of politics." Those were laudable words, but in the six weeks since then, Muller has rapidly reverted to Bridges' barking-at-every-passing-car criticism of the government.
     …
     He [Muller] has also relentlessly criticised the government's pandemic response as "shambolic."

     Government’s Covid confusion the new virus variant – Collins
     [15 November 2021]
     “This is shambolic, incompetent governance by a Government that has never had a backup plan for if, and when, elimination failed."

     Luxon says government becoming a ‘version of The Office’
     [3 August 2022]
     The quip was dropped by the opposition leader across his morning media run today (at least on both RNZ and Newshub), with Luxon also calling the cost of living payment rollout a “joke” and an “utter shambles”.

     'A mistake has been made': PM on Three Waters backdown
     [5 December 2022]
     Luxon, speaking to media from Parliament’s forecourt, described the situation as an “utter shambles” that suggested incompetence on Labour’s behalf.

     On and on – like a drain

     Perhaps, in the not too distant future, more Kiwis will realise just how lucky they are.
     • Shanreagh 6.1.1

       31 January 2023 at 5:30 pm

       Drowsy, I just got a secret message from someone from the Nats to say that a secret power has offered a prize for the most number times the word 'shambolic/shambles' can be used during the term of a leader of the Opposition.

       So far they are hoping that Luxon will lead the pack.

       I couldn't catch the name of the person though the word 'speechwriter' was mentioned & the prize seemed to be a word like 'Te Puke' or 'Hawaii' ( you know how those two words sound the same. )
       • woodart 6.1.1.1

         31 January 2023 at 5:48 pm

         love it. the shambles party is sounding more and more like an echo chamber. like a tv ad that has long outlived its appeal, the cry of "shambles" is only heard by the already converted. "enough is enough" hah!
     • SPC 6.1.2

       31 January 2023 at 5:46 pm

       It's indicative of a form of religious thought language – a godly order out of chaos, and condemnation of any other regime as shameful (shame and guilt etc).
     • weka 6.1.3

       31 January 2023 at 10:31 pm

       lol VFF.
   • weka 6.2

     31 January 2023 at 10:33 pm

     that's a decent sized slip that's going to take some fixing.
     • Macro 6.2.1

       1 February 2023 at 12:29 pm

       Yes its the main route between the East and West coasts of the peninsula. SH25A is closed for the foreseeable future and travel from one side to the other will mean taking the long way round via SH2 through the Karangahake Gorge.
       • weka 6.2.1.1

         1 February 2023 at 12:46 pm

         how much longer does that take?
         • Macro 6.2.1.1.1

           1 February 2023 at 12:52 pm

           Depending on where you are heading – if you were travelling from Thames to Whangamata it would be about 20 mins longer – but if going further north it would add at least and hour to the journey
7. SPC 7

   31 January 2023 at 3:32 pm

   Decoding language of old people.

   drongo

   /ˈdrɒŋɡəʊ/

   noun

   plural noun: drongos

   1. 1.

      a songbird with glossy black plumage and typically a long forked tail and a crest

              1. 2.
   

   RAAF term for a raw recruit. It first appeared in the early 1940s

   An Australian racehorse named Drongo, (foaled 1920, retired 1925) never won a race, and by transference anyone slow became a drongo.

   The Drongos

   Their music includes Leave me Alone and Eye of the Hurricane. They were notably successful on the street corners of New York and developed a club following, including someone from Red Mole.

   https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=the+drongos+songs
   • Macro 7.1

     31 January 2023 at 5:21 pm

     The drongo is rather a beautiful bird but in flight it very amusing. The long forked tail allows for some amazing stunts.

     https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kSl_qwU_0gk
     • SPC 7.1.1

       31 January 2023 at 5:34 pm

       Hovering like a Harrier.
8. observer 8

   31 January 2023 at 3:35 pm

   Hipkins giving presser now, announcing reshuffle (links: all media).
9. SPC 9

   31 January 2023 at 3:49 pm

   Hipkins says the health reforms now move to the delivery phase, thus the change of Minister. The deputy PM is also deputy Foreign Affairs.

   • Jan Tinetti rockets up the list from 15 to number six and gets Education
   • Michael Wood also makes a big jump from 16 to seven and becomes the Minister for Auckland
   • Dr Ayesha Verrall moves from 19 to eight and becomes the Minister of Health
   • Nanaia Mahuta loses Local Government to Kieran McAnulty and drops from 9 to 16. She keeps Foreign Affairs
   • McAnulty, Ginny Anderson and Barbara Edmonds join Cabinet

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/01/politics-live-updates-chris-hipkins-to-hold-press-conference-with-caucus-reshuffle-expected-christopher-luxon-to-speak-in-auckland.html
   • ianmac 9.1

     31 January 2023 at 4:06 pm

     On an emotional level I am sad that Nanaia loses 3 Waters. It is as though the racists won.

     However it is expediency for the good of the Party.
     • SPC 9.1.1

       31 January 2023 at 4:11 pm

       The new connection between Local Government and Emergency Management (and Rural Communities) – to solidify the connection between water management and community well-being/safety.
   • ianmac 9.2

     31 January 2023 at 4:08 pm

     Full list here:

     The new Cabinet

     • Chris Hipkins: Prime Minister, Minister for National Security and Intelligence Minister Responsible for Ministerial Services
     • Carmel Sepuloni: Deputy Prime Minister Minister for Social Development and Employment Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs (Pacific Region)
     • Kelvin Davis: Minister for Māori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti Minister for Children Minister of Corrections Associate Minister of Education (Māori Education)
     • Grant Robertson: Minister of Finance Minister for Sport and Recreation Leader of the House
     • Jan Tinetti: Minister of Education Minister for Women Minister for Child Poverty Reduction
     • Michael Wood: Minister of Immigration Minister of Transport Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety Minister for Auckland Associate Minister of Finance
     • Ayesha Verrall: Minister of Health Minister of Research, Science and Innovation
     • Willie Jackson: Minister for Broadcasting and Media Minister for Māori Development Associate Minister for ACC Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (Māori Employment)
     • Kiri Allan: Minister of Justice Minister for Regional Development Associate Minister of Transport
     • Megan Woods: Minister of Housing Minister for Infrastructure Minister of Energy and Resources Minister for Building and Construction Associate Minister of Finance
     • Stuart Nash: Minister for Economic Development Minister of Forestry Minister of Police Minister for Oceans and Fisheries
     • Damien O’Connor: Minister of Agriculture Minister for Biosecurity Minister for Land Information Minister for Trade and Export Growth
     • Peeni Henare: Minister for ACC Minister of Tourism Associate Minister for the Environment Associate Minister of Health (Māori Health)
     • Andrew Little: Minister of Defence Minister Responsible for the GCSB Minister Responsible for the NZSIS Minister for the Public Service Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Lead Coordination Minister for the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission’s Report into the Terrorist Attack on the Christchurch Mosques
     • David Parker: Attorney-General Minister for the Environment Minister of Revenue Associate Minister of FinanceMinister for Whānau Ora
     • Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector Minister for Disability Issues Minister for Diversity, Inclusion and Ethnic Communities Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment Associate Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety
     • Kieran McAnulty: Minister for Emergency Management Minister of Local Government Minister for Racing Minister for Rural Communities Deputy Leader of the House
     • Barbara Edmonds: Minister of Internal Affairs Minister for Pacific Peoples Associate Minister of Health (Pacific Peoples) Associate Minister of Housing
     • Incognito 9.2.1

       31 January 2023 at 4:32 pm

       That’s not the full full list, which can be found here: https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-cabinet-focused-bread-and-butter-issues
     • Ad 9.2.2

       31 January 2023 at 4:54 pm

       Tough break Mahuta. Parker as AG and Environment inherits the 3 Waters legislation.

       Also tough break Little for shouldering the Health reforms this far. Verrall takes it to the Promised Land where she will avenge every Wellington health bureaucrat that wronged her.

       No succession plan for Robertson, when we know he's leaving.

       Wood for Auckland is a natural. Ex Auckland Councillor and wife on local board means they can easily corral that fuck-knuckle mayor.

       Congrats to Deborah Russel for getting her own little bunch of portfolios finally. Jesus Parker give Revenue up already!

       Nash with Police but no alignment to Justice is silly.
       • SPC 9.2.2.1

         31 January 2023 at 5:14 pm

         Wood is Associate Finance, and Robertson is available to remain Minister if Labour wins in 2023.
         • Ad 9.2.2.1.1

           31 January 2023 at 11:19 pm

           OMG you are fooling yourself if you think Robertson is staying. Robertson is as spent as Ardern, and his policies such as they are, are dead.

           Wood has not a jot of financial experience on his CV. Associate Finance without a delegation. Best of luck with that.
           • SPC 9.2.2.1.1.1

             31 January 2023 at 11:54 pm

             Myself, really? It's Hipkins who has only Parker as a potential replacement next year (and it's not Parker who has signalled he is staying on).

             Wood with 4 years as Associate Minister could be spokesperson from 2026.

             Robertson was appointed to Finance Spokesperson in 2014.
           • roblogic 9.2.2.1.1.2

             2 February 2023 at 8:29 pm

             I reckon Robertson will quit after the election. Keep the ship looking stable for one more run. But agree his time is done. A good communicator but hopeless at economics, just another neoliberal corporate lackey. Not the reformer we desperately needed 5 years ago.
       • Belladonna 9.2.2.2

         31 January 2023 at 7:59 pm

         Do you think that the drop down the ranks of Little, and the elimination of Twyford – should be taken as an indication that these 2 may retire?

         Little is list – so could basically make the call at any time.

         Twyford is MP for Te Atatu – a solid, safe Labour seat – so, if change is mooted, the party should be reviewing options fairly quickly.
         • Ad 9.2.2.2.1

           31 January 2023 at 11:25 pm

           Little and Mahuta were way too left-reformist for Hipkins. They have done their dash a- likely wait another term out until some of the younger ministers complete their apprenticeships and then just leave.

           Twyford has been Walking Undead since 2019 after getting fucked over by NZSuperfund. and never recovered.

           NZSuperfund are now playing both sides of the House using bankers to front their Taranakai offshore wind farm proposals, and proposing that this is a replacement for NZBattery. No one has control of them, no one. They are waiting for Labour to get chucked so they can truly kill NZBattery and show National how private equity ought to run the country.
           • SPC 9.2.2.2.1.1

             1 February 2023 at 12:18 am

             NZ Battery is not just the Onslow proposal, it is also the look at larger scale alternatives to it (geothermal and hydrogen). There are already a few BESS (Tesla power pack) small scale battery reserve systems.

             How would an offshore wind farm replace the development of the capacity to manage a dry hydro year?
       • SPC 9.2.2.3

         31 January 2023 at 10:31 pm

         Parker as AG and Environment inherits the 3 Waters legislation.

         Not the government? Mahuta was lead Minister during its path through parliament. Whatever government now decides, Hipkins will lead the public messaging, with McAnulty (and or Parker?) taking it from there.
         • Ad 9.2.2.3.1

           31 January 2023 at 11:16 pm

           My bet is Hipkins and Parker will stall implementation of parts of the Act until after the election, if at all.

           Hipkins have a golden opportunity to wait until Auckland Council begs them for storm rebuild funding, and Hipkins says to Mayor Brown: sure thing sign here you will accept this 3 Waters arrangement.

           There's also a chance he could strangle the programme at birth by defunding it at Budget.

           They could even go to the election proposing to re-do the legislation with one single central state owned entity, with Maori representation on that.

           Few expect it to survive other than in diminished form.
           • SPC 9.2.2.3.1.1

             1 February 2023 at 12:08 am

             A single entity providing expertise (and capital investment) to provincial councils is a possibility – this to give effect to clean water, effective waste and stormwater in the iwi heartlands outside the major settler cities such as Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin.
10. Stephen D 10

    31 January 2023 at 4:51 pm

    It would be very helpful to see an old fashioned debate with the Labour Front Bench on one side, and the National Front Bench on the other. Kim Hill as moderator.

    The motion being; “That this house believes neoliberalism is dead”
    • Ad 10.1

      31 January 2023 at 4:56 pm

      I can't think of a current Minister who would agree with that statement.
      • Stephen D 10.1.1

        31 January 2023 at 5:09 pm

        The Labour Front Bench against Luxon, Willis, Bishop, Mumble, Mumble.

        Lay down misere.
        • Ad 10.1.1.1

          31 January 2023 at 11:27 pm

          Lay down misery.
11. Anne 11

    31 January 2023 at 5:03 pm

    Oh dear, I presume they can be fixed. 😮

    [unlinked quote deleted]
    • Peter 11.1

      31 January 2023 at 6:46 pm

      There really are some dicks around!
    • Belladonna 11.2

      31 January 2023 at 7:44 pm

      If they are … ahem … electrical items – the perpetrators may be making a visit to A&E.

      Seriously, just how stupid do you have to be to steal 'intimate' material which has been thrown away because of health and safety risks.
      • In Vino 11.2.1

        31 January 2023 at 8:11 pm

        Belladonna – they are intending to sell them on to others, in the back of a pub somewhere.

        Profitable, probably, with no nasty consequences to sellers.
        • alwyn 11.2.1.1

          31 January 2023 at 8:23 pm

          Perhaps they are just saving them up to throw at Cabinet Ministers at Waitangi.

          Great fun of course and entirely innocent behavior. Well that was the claim when Steven Joyce was assaulted.
          • Drowsy M. Kram 11.2.1.1.1

            1 February 2023 at 9:47 am

            Wasn't enough to put him off politics though – that man had (a) nerve.

            Apparently it was all downhill only after Bridges took away his favourite toy and he had to go digging for holes elsewhere.

            "an independent advisor"…
            "acting as a sounding board"…
            "providing a fresh perspective"…
            "An accomplished businessman and politician"…
            "Steven’s experience allows him to provide fresh and objective advice"
            https://www.rcp.co.nz/people/steven-joyce/

            Why isn't this guy in Parliament? The Nats could sure use his 'fresh' advice
    • weka 11.3

      31 January 2023 at 8:24 pm

      I've deleted the quote without a link. Repost with link if you want.
    • weka 11.4

      31 January 2023 at 8:28 pm

      On RNZ live feeds there's a permanent link button in the top right corner of each item. Looks kind of like this (-). If you click on that, you can then copy the URL from the main address bar in your browser.
      • weka 11.4.1

        31 January 2023 at 8:32 pm

        Same in the RNZ app, although in my iphone I had to press and hold the (-), and then copy the link and paste it.
        • Anne 11.4.1.1

          31 January 2023 at 8:45 pm

          My browser won’t link to item.

          "Sex toys stolen from flooded store

          Looters have stolen discarded sex toys and lingerie from a flooded store in North Auckland overnight.

          Peaches & Cream chief executive Sandra Walters said they lost $200 worth of stock in Friday's flood.

          After filling a skip with the ruined items, Walters said she returned this morning to find it half empty.

          She had even chased looters away from the Wairau store."

          https://rnz.liveblog.pro/lb-rnz/blogs/63d7ef1c0da853c07b12baac/index.html?liveblog._id=urn:newsml:localhost:2023-01-31T03:58:09.225605:2ca2a689-249b-4401-81e6-f540bd636a13-%3Eeditorial
          • weka 11.4.1.1.1

            31 January 2023 at 9:10 pm

            then please cut and paste the time stamp with the quote (and then feed link). eg

            Jan 31, 2023 8:49 PM

            RNZ Live

            Officials work to ensure healthcare access in Coromandel

            Coromandel health officials are putting resources in place so patients do not miss out on vital care during the bad weather.

            Hauraki Primary Health Organisation chief executive, Taima Campbell, told RNZ she had asked for extra support from Waikato Hospital registrars or specialists, in case local staff need advice.

            She said they had also been checking on pregnant women, the elderly, and people isolating with Covid-19 in the Coromandel.

            St John has already bolstered the number of ambulance crews in Whitianga and Whangamata, with many roads closed in the region.
12. Anne 12

    31 January 2023 at 9:19 pm

    Ok. Got that.
    • weka 12.1

      31 January 2023 at 9:56 pm

      thanks Anne, much appreciated. It will matter most when important events are unfolding.
      • Anne 12.1.1

        31 January 2023 at 11:16 pm

        Given the amount of mis and disinformation reported on a daily basis in the media and else where, I can see it has become a necessity.

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