Open mike 31/05/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 31st, 2022 - 148 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

148 comments on “Open mike 31/05/2022 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Chris T 1
    31 May 2022 at 7:09 am

    Far out. While the humour level is up there, so is the embarrassment one.
    Maybe she can beg Biden to lend her one.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pms-us-trip-jacinda-arderns-plane-breaks-down-in-washington-pcr-tests-for-all-after-covid-cases/M5RGMZFFCGKPIBNXXH7LOOW6IM/

    PM's US trip: Jacinda Ardern's plane breaks down in Washington, PCR tests for all after Covid cases

    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's trip to the United States has hit another logistical pothole after the RNZAF Boeing carrying the delegation broke down in Washington DC.

    Fortunately, the breakdown was on the last stop of the tour – it was due to fly Ardern back to San Francisco for a commercial flight home after her meeting tomorrow with US President Joe Biden.

  2. Jimmy 2
    31 May 2022 at 7:36 am

    Like the people that let down the tyres of 4wd vehicles (the tyre extinguishers?), this sort of dumb action will just turn more people against climate change.

    Watch: Mona Lisa smeared with cake by climate change activist (msn.com)

    • DB Brown 2.1
      31 May 2022 at 8:13 am

      "Turn people against Climate Change"

      That's be most of the planet 'against climate change'. I agree it's uncalled for to deface art, but people are beginning to fight for their lives. And it's just beginning. If you were familiar with the science you might be a tad more upset at governments and corporations rather than being upset at some hapless cake smearer communicating their frustration.

      Because when it comes to pointlessness – destroying this incredible planet so a few absolute pricks can get filthy rich… Hand me some of that cake, I'mm'a throw it at them.

    • Incognito 2.2
      31 May 2022 at 8:21 am

      Let them eat cake!

    • Belladonna 2.3
      31 May 2022 at 8:26 am

      Reading the coverage, it just looks like a narcissist who wants attention. No actual argument for climate change was presented.

      The 'real' activists (like XR) make sure their message is front and centre in any protest.

      You may not agree with them, but you know exactly what they stand for, and why.

      • Robert Guyton 2.3.1
        31 May 2022 at 10:43 am

        You are dividing in order to weaken, Belladonna, imo. ""Real" activists .v. "activists-who-are-not-real".

        It is not so exact a science.

        The "Mona Lisa-eat-this" person wasn't reported as having made a clear argument on climate change – quelle surprise! You seem to have a great deal of confidence in the media to accurately report the statements of activists. I admire your naive confidence.

        I expect the fact that we don't know exactly what they stand for, and why, is not the fault of the activist.

    • Robert Guyton 2.4
      31 May 2022 at 8:41 am

      The protective glass was smeared with cake.

      Yawn.

      DB Brown said:

      "… people are beginning to fight for their lives. And it's just beginning."

      Here in NZ, we have the Tyre Extinguishers.

      More to come, I'm betting.

      • DB Brown 2.4.1
        31 May 2022 at 9:34 am

        Imagine how angry conservative people will be who've swallowed the whole 'controversial' bloviation – when they finally see light of day.

        They'll go racing past the lines of protestors brandishing weapons.

        The worst part, for me, has been watching this coming for decades – and being treated like a cake smearing lunatic for mentioning it.

    • Adrian Thornton 2.5
      31 May 2022 at 8:54 am

      People who already pointlessly drive 4wd's are already giving climate change the middle finger..so fuck them and let all their tyres down at every opportunity…in-fact it is your public duty to do so.

      • weston 2.5.1
        31 May 2022 at 11:36 am

        Please dont let down the tyres on my 4wd Adrian its useful to me in multiple ways .Im happy though to make up for its " gas guzzling ' rep by being part of a carless days scheme in fact im surprised there's nothing official along those lines happening already .

        No offence but i think its delusional to imagine letting down someones tyres is a good way of addressing cc its just gonna get peoples backs up and instead of being with you they're against you .

        Since the bulk of our greenhouse gases come from agriculture shouldnt we focus on the worst things first ?

        Doing something about it might seem like its taking a long time but it is happening .The electric revolution is here and probably half our cars on the road will be electric within ten years or less .

        Heavy trucks consume as much as 150 cars and transport firms are doing their bit too .Hydrogen fuel infrastructure is being rolled out across nz right now and that technology will be a game changer for the movement of freight in a cc friendly manner .

        The world already is a far cleaner place than when i was a kid , back then for ex every bus on the road was a bedford with a giant petrol motor in it burning leaded fuel and boy were they thirsty !!!Ditto all the cars an a good percentage of the trucks ! We've come a long way since then .

        Letting peoples tyres down is not changing anything imo its an admission of failure .

        • Adrian Thornton 2.5.1.1
          31 May 2022 at 12:19 pm

          "Letting peoples tyres down is not changing anything imo its an admission of failure"…no you are quite wrong…letting down tyres on pointless innercity 4wd's at this moment in history is exactly the correct response.

          "back then for ex every bus on the road was a bedford with a giant petrol motor in it burning leaded fuel and boy were they thirsty !!!Ditto all the cars an a good percentage of the trucks ! We've come a long way since then "

          Wrong again….car ownership is at the highest numbers recorded..and your beloved 4wd's are being sold as fast as they can be imported…and just remember that so called sophisticated vehicle you are driving today is in-fact using essentially exactly the same technology that Karl Benz delivered to the world in 1885…exploding a fuel/air mixture under extreme compression.

          "There were almost 4.4 million motor vehicles in New Zealand in 2019—the highest ever number "
          https://www.ehinz.ac.nz/indicators/transport/motor-vehicles-2/#:~:text=There%20were%20almost%204.4%20million,fleet)%20(Figure%201).

          SUV Sales surge
          "The top five spots were all filled by SUV-style vehicles"
          https://nz4wd.co.nz/article/suv-sales-surge-mitsubishi-ascends-january

          Let Them Down!!!

          • weston 2.5.1.1.1
            31 May 2022 at 2:23 pm

            Let them down etc ….just gonna drive all those people straight into the arms of nact/act isnt it ?

            • Adrian Thornton 2.5.1.1.1.1
              31 May 2022 at 2:51 pm

              If that is all it takes for someone to Vote Act then they can't be helped, so fuck them….you would think we were talking about slashing tyres and not just letting the goddam air out of them FFS…all this ridiculous clutching pearls over the most passive of direct actions only exposes the complete lack of depth at the heart of what many people are prepared to do or how little they are prepared to really change their lifestyles in response to climate change….like most Centrist Liberals on each and all important topics of radical change, all talk…

              • In Vino …
                31 May 2022 at 4:31 pm

                Adrian T has a point.

                We have made vehicles slightly cleaner and more fuel-efficient, but ruined it all by mass-producing them and putting billions of them on the roads.

                Why else could we possibly have congestion problems?

                And we are, overall, burning more fuel than we ever have before.

                Stupid is stupid, and we humans are just that.

          • Jimmy 2.5.1.1.2
            31 May 2022 at 3:42 pm

            How do you feel about them letting down the tyres on an electric SUV which they have been doing?

      • Belladonna 2.5.2
        31 May 2022 at 1:15 pm

        OK. So engaging on this one from my actual knowledge of a real incident.

        A friend had her tyres let down on her SUV on 3 occasions. She lives in Mt Albert – and no, not all people living in that suburb are 'rich pricks'.

        In her instance, she has a disabled daughter who uses a wheelchair – and needs the larger vehicle to be able to transport her family safely around.

        The unthinking (and uncaring) protesters – caused a great deal of unnecessary stress and cost for her (on a fairly limited budget – you try having a disabled family member and watch the money trickle out the door).

        She has a disability label, presented prominently on the car, so they have zero excuse for 'not knowing'.

        If *anyone* imagines that this action has increased her support (or the support of anyone who knows her) for climate change action – then they are dreaming.

        Massive own-goal.

        • Adrian Thornton 2.5.2.1
          31 May 2022 at 2:26 pm

          Sorry for your friend…however this is a war on climate change, and as in all wars there is collateral damage…that's just how it is.

          • Belladonna 2.5.2.1.1
            31 May 2022 at 2:57 pm

            All wars depend on the support (either active or tacit) of the civilian population.

            If you fail to engage that support, your war will fail.

            Do the climate change activists want popular support for change (which will ensure it actually happens) or do they want to brandish their ‘more righteous than you’ credentials – and alienate the rest of the population?

            For many, the latter seems to be the preferred option.

        • Jester 2.5.2.2
          31 May 2022 at 7:15 pm

          That's shocking. I feel for your friend. What's more shocking is Adrian's comment at 2.5.2.1. She's just "collateral damage" so no sympathy there. Bloody terrible attitude supporting people who purposely damage property.

    • roy cartland 2.6
      31 May 2022 at 9:49 am

      Well, Roger Halham (XR) predicted this kind of thing would happen, and worse. Along the lines of: heed the peaceful protestors, because if you don't, the violent ones will follow. And if you don't listen to them, worse will follow. And so on.

      • Robert Guyton 2.6.1
        31 May 2022 at 10:24 am

        The so-far-benign school-age climate activists are going to change their approach, imo, and our jaws will drop in response. A wise PM will know this. There's a chance Jacinda will/does. There is zero chance that Luxon ever could.

        • RedLogix 2.6.1.1
          1 June 2022 at 10:32 am

          Spell it out – what do you mean by 'jaw dropping'?

          Extremists who believe their cause is so important that it justifies any means to achieve it invariably create nothing but misery, suffering and sometimes utter catastrophe.

          Which often is their true purpose.

    • Puckish Rogue 2.7
      31 May 2022 at 12:15 pm

      I get 8.5 ltrs per 100kms diesel out of my ute

      That's not bad

      • mac1 2.7.1
        31 May 2022 at 12:37 pm

        At $2.71 a litre that's $23.

        I get 100 km for 13 kw/h in the Leaf, costing $4-that's not bad. Admittedly not a ute, but different (4-) strokes for different folks.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.7.1.1
          31 May 2022 at 1:36 pm

          Its about 2.50 a ltr where I am but theres no way I'd get my dogs in a Leaf (well I could but the back seats would be destroyed very quickly)

        • theotherpat 2.7.1.2
          1 June 2022 at 9:28 am

          i wish!!!…..i wonder where money could come from to really help folks who cant afford them even with a subsidy and high gas prices…..i do 120km round trip each day….a small battery leaf won't cut it

          • mac1 2.7.1.2.1
            1 June 2022 at 5:18 pm

            A larger Leaf with a 30 kw/h battery as I have should cut it.

            120 km per day is 30,000 km annually. (5 days a week). EV fuel would be $1200 + $1200 annually to put towards a replacement battery. An ICE might be $7800 annually in petrol, so you have a $5000 annual saving. That goes a long way towards affording a more expensive car. My Leaf cost $19,000 two years. Is that expensive in today's world?You can also charge your battery at the end of you first leg of your round trip if you get a cheaper small battery Leaf? Worth looking harder at the figures.

            • theotherpat 2.7.1.2.1.1
              7 June 2022 at 4:24 pm

              i hear ya but this electric bizzo is set up mainly for "cities"….i live in a small town…..i would have to spend 20k plus set up home charging and have no facilities if i have to at work to charge……not everyone wants to borrow to buy a car….then in 10 years max its stuffed ….

          • Molly 2.7.1.2.2
            3 June 2022 at 5:34 pm

            My daughter worked and saved up for a year knowing she would be studying in Auckland, along with her brother. She cleaned out those savings purchasing a 2016 Nissan Leaf 30kWh for $19,000. Similar to mac1.

            The round trip where she drops off her brother at Auckland Uni, and then goes on to Unitech, then does the reverse to return home is about 122km.

            Although she was hoping for a cheaper 24kW option, the seller persuaded her that this one would have the buffer needed. Despite the Covid impact, so far, so good. Slow charging at home at night improves the longevity of the battery, and she hasn't had to fast charge at all. Still has a buffer of 20-35km depending on traffic and heat of the day.

            Savings in terms of fuel and/or public transport costs were factored in alongside the purchase cost. The time savings are also immense for them both, although they have to coordinate timetables and wait for each other at various times.

            So far, the battery health level in bars is the same as purchase.

  3. Adrian Thornton 3
    31 May 2022 at 9:02 am

    Looking good for the Left-Wing alliance in Columbia….an excellent result in the right direction, away from the US backed Narco/Right….

    The right-wing is out of the presidential election, can the Colombian left-wing take power?
    https://www.breakinglatest.news/world/the-right-wing-is-out-of-the-presidential-election-can-the-colombian-left-wing-take-power-teller-report/

    Chavismo hopes to improve relations with Colombia after the election of president
    https://pledgetimes.com/chavismo-hopes-to-improve-relations-with-colombia-after-the-election-of-president/

    • Bearded Git 3.1
      31 May 2022 at 9:23 am

      Don't count your chickens Adrian. Hernandez (who is 77) could take it on the second round. Most of the right wing votes will go to him.

      It's interesting that Bogota and all of the surrounding areas support the Right….the rest of the country supports Petro.

      The most telling comment in the article is that 39% of Colombians earn only US$89 a month or less. I spent four months travelling around Colombia 10 years ago and can attest to that. It makes NZ income look pretty good.

      • Adrian Thornton 3.1.1
        31 May 2022 at 12:23 pm

        "Don't count your chickens Adrian. Hernandez (who is 77) could take it on the second round. Most of the right wing votes will go to him"…could do, have to wait and see I guess…let's just hope the US don't meddle in their election process…which they seem addicted to doing, all over the World but especially in South America.

  4. The Al1en 4
    31 May 2022 at 10:06 am

    England keeps pissing off the EU and relations increasingly sour, scotland and wales vote for independence, cut ties with London and over the course of a few years, their sovereign states seek closer ties with Brussels.

    England, isolated because of it's hard-line nationalist government, claim those identifying with the crown in the former Kingdom seek protection from abuse, and launch a special military operation to secure peace and not at all have anything to do with reclaiming what's left of it's once proud empire.

    Sanctions on Boris and military aid to Nicola and Tom Jones?

    • tc 4.1
      31 May 2022 at 11:59 am

      When Tony Abbott's advising you on how to deal with refugees the optics appear pretty clear as to their direction.

    • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 4.2
      31 May 2022 at 1:28 pm

      England, isolated because of it's hard-line nationalist government.

      16 ounces to the pound, 14 pound to the stone, God knows how many yards to the mile . . . (1760!)

      If ever I heard of a backward step, this has got to be it!

      • The Al1en 4.2.1
        31 May 2022 at 6:28 pm

        A little Boris Bark, a dog whistle for the die hard tory Brexiteers and inner racist red wall waverers.

        "We might have taken your jobs, homes, nhs and futures but we'll never let them take your furlongs".

        Mel Gibson as BJ in Bravehair.

    • Craig H 4.3
      31 May 2022 at 1:31 pm

      Federal United Celtic Kingdom?

  5. Adrian 5
    31 May 2022 at 10:11 am

    If you are going to let down the tyres on SUVs, and I agree they are a tad exessive, you will need to let down the tyres on station wagons, as SUVs are the new SWs and have replaced station wagons in most car company lineups except the European ones who are generally more sensible, see Skoda, Fiat/Alfa, Peugeot etc . Banning SUVs means an extended family, i.e elderly grandparents, disabled members and sports/tramping etc gear, would need two cars or two trips to move the family about. Hmmm, a bit counterproductive I would think.

    I think large SUVs are ridiculous in cities simply because of the driveability problems, but if the owner does all or some of the above they would need a second car, again, counterproductive.

    • DB Brown 5.1
      31 May 2022 at 10:29 am

      People movers seem more suited to the task of large families. I thought they needed them trucks because they're the new ute…

      They're the new something.

      I don't think we should attack any private property. It's a selfish way to make a point and only generates adversity from potential allies. Similar to throwing paint on people. A total dick move.

      Go for the corporations and politicians holding their planet burning practices up. They are the ones who need deflating.

      • mikesh 5.1.1
        31 May 2022 at 1:39 pm

        Luddites smashed machinery. They had a point since they were concerned about jobs. Modern Luddites seem concerned about climate change.

    • Robert Guyton 5.2
      31 May 2022 at 10:35 am

      Every action has its counter-productive aspect. In desperate times (these and those coming) those "counterproductive" effects will be ignored, because no action is free of them and desperation generates and demands action.

      Rather than focussing on the flip-side to every protest action, we need to dive into the substance of the matter. If we keep what-abouting, (did the protesters drive here in a fossil-fuel-powered vehicle, do they use a laptop te mea te mea ad nauseam.) we will fail to progress.

  6. Blade 6
    31 May 2022 at 11:03 am

    National MP, Mark Mitchell will meet with Police Commissioner, Andrew Coster, this afternoon.

    This is a very important meeting in my opinion. Should Mitchell come out of said meeting and say '' it had been very productive,'' you can be assured the crime curve will continue to rise upwards under a National government, with innocent Kiwis as collateral damage.

    However, should Mitchell say the National government has put the commissioner on notice, many votes from frightened Kiwis will be coming their way.

    I won't be holding my breath.

    • Anne 6.1
      31 May 2022 at 11:11 am

      We haven't got a National government so how can he put the commissioner on notice? If he did try such a strategy in his capacity as National's spokesperson, I suspect he would be put politely but firmly in his place.

    • Robert Guyton 6.2
      31 May 2022 at 11:19 am

      Is Mitchell so untrustworthy that he could do as you suggest?

      If so, Coster should cancel the meeting.

      • Incognito 6.2.1
        31 May 2022 at 11:28 am

        Mitchell was granted permission by the Minister, Poto Williams, on his second attempt to meet with Coster. He’d be stupid to be blow it and use it for ‘pontificating’, for want of a better word.

        • Blade 6.2.1.1
          31 May 2022 at 11:33 am

          I agree. Now is not the time for ‘pontificating.’, Talking straight and telling the commissioner what he can expect under a National government, is. For starters, it's a courtesy and good manners.

          • Robert Guyton 6.2.1.1.1
            31 May 2022 at 11:50 am

            Oh, you meant threatening not pontificating!

            I get it.

          • Incognito 6.2.1.1.2
            31 May 2022 at 12:09 pm

            Talking straight and telling the commissioner what he can expect under a National government, is.

            No more hugs & cuddles, little Andrew, or you have to have time-out on the naughty step! angry

          • Nic the NZer 6.2.1.1.3
            31 May 2022 at 6:37 pm

            When is your next run at the police commissioner role planned?

  7. SPC 7
    31 May 2022 at 11:09 am

    For those who find MSM is not what it used to be (white and male or behind a Herald paywall) there is the The Platform – Maori and feminists should avoid.

    • Blade 7.1
      31 May 2022 at 11:47 am

      Laws, Plunket, Devlin and Leanne Malcolm.!!!! White and bright.

      Home, sweet home.

      Reality based opinion. Lucky they aren't on the airways otherwise ZB and AM would be losing listeners bigtime.

      • Robert Guyton 7.1.1
        31 May 2022 at 11:59 am

        "Lucky they aren't on the airways "

        Hey! Point of agreement!!

      • Incognito 7.1.2
        31 May 2022 at 12:06 pm

        White and bright.

        Home, sweet home.

        Odd exaltation for a Māori fella …surprise

        • Robert Guyton 7.1.2.1
          31 May 2022 at 12:22 pm

          Blade sails under the Tinorangatiratanga flag?

        • Blade 7.1.2.2
          31 May 2022 at 4:58 pm

          Of course, if I was on the gravy train, I may think differently. Hold on, there's hope. I received this email a few weeks back titled:

          Ngāti Tūwharetoa entities and Taupō District Council give the green light to build the new Taupō Civic Administration Building

          As a member of the Trust board, who knows what goodies await my bank account.laugh

  8. Ross 8
    31 May 2022 at 11:21 am

    Personally I’d be more concerned about this Government’s spending.

    https://thefacts.nz/economy/government-debt-doubles-in-3-years/

    Then there is 3 Waters which won’t be cheap. According to DIA:

    “The investment needed to fix our failing systems and to build and maintain the required infrastructure in the future has been estimated at between $120 billion and $185 billion over the next 30 years.”

    If 3 Waters is axed – as it presumably will be under National – that will be a big spend that could be used elsewhere. Then of course there is increasing the age of eligibility for superannuitants. Then there’s the jobs tax which will cost billions, although MBIE isn’t sure exactly how much it will cost. That doesn’t bode well for taxpayers.

    I wouldn’t be worried about National’s ability to generate a tax cut. It will be easily achieved. And simply adjusting the tax brackets will see anyone earning over $14000 better off.

    https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/18666-a-new-zealand-income-insurance-scheme-a-discussion-document

    https://www.dia.govt.nz/three-waters-reform-programme-frequently-asked-questions#what-will-this-cost-to-fix

    [lprent: Personally I’d prefer that you read the post and actually responded to that – rather than making up silly stories unrelated to what is in your links. 3 waters is a charged system just like water is now. Yet you appear to think it will be free of charge. I have no idea what a “jobs tax” is? PAYE? Or just some ignorant bullshit about a mythical compulsory tax that you simply made up – based on a discussion document?.

    If you want to start your own topic where you can enthusiastically wank illiterate garbage – then start it on OpenMike or better still start up your own site. This is your only warning. ]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • tc 8.1
      31 May 2022 at 11:47 am

      Ah yes the dog whistling practice of 'gone by lunchtime' nact love to throw out there with zero details on how, why, what comes next, what's that cost etc.

      They've hinted similar on Maori health etc to a lapdog media who wags the tail, copy/pastes the rhetoric and doesn't apply any critical objective analysis.

    • mickysavage 8.2
      31 May 2022 at 11:55 am

      "If 3 Waters is axed – as it presumably will be under National – that will be a big spend that could be used elsewhere."

      Yes but we will still have people being poisoned by their local water supply and Wellington will continue to pour sewage into the harbour.

      And I hate to break it to you but there is no headroom for a significant tax cut. Something will have to give. Cuts will have to be made. Which is why National should come clean and say what it will cut.

      • Poission 8.2.1
        31 May 2022 at 12:00 pm

        Yes but we will still have people being poisoned by their local water supply and Wellington will continue to pour sewage into the harbour.

        The wellington city council argued for some hours over the increased spend of 5m to wgtn water.The next day without debate they allowed funding of 5M for a skate park.

      • aj 8.2.2
        31 May 2022 at 5:05 pm

        Mihi Forbes asked the question and got the full range of answers.

        https://twitter.com/Mihi_Forbes/status/1530983485413785600?cxt=HHwWgICg0crXkr8qAAAA

      • Rosemary McDonald 8.2.3
        31 May 2022 at 5:31 pm

        …and Wellington will continue to pour sewage into the harbour.

        But…but… I thought the anti- vax, anti Semite, misogynist, racist river of filth had been cleared from Parliament grounds and flushed out of town?

    • lprent 8.3
      31 May 2022 at 12:31 pm

      See my moderation note.

  10. Craig H 10
    31 May 2022 at 1:33 pm

    Last day for consultation on the future of Working For Families: https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/work-programmes/welfare-overhaul/public-consultation-on-working-for-families-tax-credits.html to make a submission. Submissions can be full written submissions or via a survey, so it's easy to have a say.

  11. Craig H 11
    31 May 2022 at 2:00 pm

    Productivity report on immigration settings has been released today: https://www.productivity.govt.nz/inquiries/immigration-settings/

    Main findings:

    • Immigration is not likely to be the solution nor the cause of the productivity challenges facing Aotearoa New Zealand.
    • The relationship between productivity and immigration requires a balance of trade-offs between government objectives, and a consideration of short‑run and long‑run impacts.
    • Immigration has played an important part in New Zealand’s economic development.
    • On average, immigration is not driving down wages nor displacing local workers.
    • The use of Labour Market Tests, Skill Shortage Lists and tying migrants to employers can suppress wages and productivity.
    • The supply of infrastructure is less responsive to population growth now than in the past.

    Two recommendations of particular interest to me are the recommendation to stop tying migrants to employers (I absolutely agree with this), and to remove the permanent resident visa, and revert to a variation of the old system in which residency has to be maintained (every 6 years is the proposal). That was well-canvassed in 2006-9 when the (current) Immigration Act 2009 was being drafted and then passed, so will be interesting to see how that discussion goes.

    • Stuart Munro 11.1
      31 May 2022 at 3:16 pm

      Seems a bit self-congratulatory.

      NZ has been "enjoying" a per capita immigration rate roughly five times that which triggered Brexit. A few subjective submissions and suddenly it's gold stars all round.

      Hard to get at the truth when your researchers aren't even looking.

    • Belladonna 11.2
      31 May 2022 at 3:16 pm

      are the recommendation to stop tying migrants to employers (I absolutely agree with this)

      Support you 100% – there have been some shocking cases of what is effectively slavery, enabled by the fact that the employees have nowhere else to go under the terms of their visa.

      From the report

      On average, immigration is not driving down wages nor displacing local workers.

      It's the 'on average' which is the kicker here. I think there is no doubt that in certain fields and jobs, immigration (either temporary or permanent) has absolutely driven down wages.

      I'm more on the fence about skill shortage lists. I think there are some employment areas which absolutely don't warrant jobs being on the skill shortage list (e.g. hairdressers and chefs) – where NZ can absolutely be expected to grow our own (either through training or apprenticeships).

      There are others where we have a short-medium term deficit, and there is no capacity in NZ to grow the replacement workforce within a reasonable timeframe (thinking of medical professionals, vets, engineers, etc.) – and that we really do want to encourage immigration by individuals with that skillset on a preferential basis. I doubt that this immigration is at all likely to drive down wages….

      However, and I don't think that the report is strong enough here all job categories on the Skills shortage list should (I would say must) be accompanied by a plan for resolving this shortage internally within the medium term: i.e. increased numbers of training within that speciality – I'm looking at you doctors (Auckland and Otago med schools); and vets (Massey).

      We cannot keep relying on importing Doctors from India and nurses from the Philippines – to keep our health system running.

      • Craig H 11.2.1
        31 May 2022 at 7:58 pm

        I don't think we can reliably fill all shortages locally for the main reason that young NZers will always want to travel on the great OE as they have done for the past however many decades, and can also just move to Australia without applying for visas at all, and Australia and other countries will happily import trained and skilled NZers.

        Not to say that we shouldn't do better in training (there is a lot of work being done in that area but more is always good), but even if we doubled our training in doctors and surgeons, for example, some graduates will still move overseas, especially if there are more trainees than jobs. If there is a global shortage of something, that's even more pronounced.

        • Belladonna 11.2.1.1
          31 May 2022 at 9:27 pm

          I agree that there will always be mobility in this area – however, the percentages going overseas for a period and returning, and those going and not returning are roughly known.

          However, setting aside all of that mobility, we are not even training replacements for the workforce we *know* are hitting retirement age in the next 10 years. We have a critical lack of GPs – let alone specialists in a range of medical areas. There is little chance that we're going to have more trainees than jobs.

          Doubling the doctor-training is nothing like enough. We need to double the intake of doctors every year for the next 5 years. Same with vets. And then maintain at that level. There is no good reason why the med schools of Auckland and Otago can't be instructed to do this, by the government.

          Note, I'm not recommending lowering qualification standards, just dropping the artificially high bar for entry.

          The senior and specialist medical professionals are running a guild system, to restrict the number of newly qualified professionals, and reduce the overseas intake by requiring onerous professional accreditation – which, of course, keeps their salaries high.

          If we don't expand our medical training to meet the current and foreseeable need, then we're relying on overseas countries to train the people to staff our health system. We're a drain on their economies and on their health systems, which is neither fair nor equitable.

          As far as I can see, there is very little work being done to drastically ramp up medical education, training and qualifications in NZ. In fact, I can't think of a single specific initiative.

          • Incognito 11.2.1.1.1
            31 May 2022 at 10:08 pm

            There is no good reason why the med schools of Auckland and Otago can't be instructed to do this, by the government.

            I can think of a few.

            What do you think of allowing international students entering NZ med schools?

            As far as I can see, there is very little work being done to drastically ramp up medical education, training and qualifications in NZ. In fact, I can't think of a single specific initiative.

            There has been a strong push for and an even stronger push-back against a third medical school in Waikato.

            https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/17/nz-needs-more-locally-trained-doctors-medical-school-professor/

            • Belladonna 11.2.1.1.1.1
              1 June 2022 at 7:25 am

              Personally not particularly in favour of overseas students in NZ med schools.

              Would rather be training our own. Not permanently opposed, at some time in the future. But with severely limited places, and a drastic local shortage of doctors, they should go to Kiwis first.

              The Waikato option appears to have pros and cons – I'd have thought expanding existing intakes at Auckland and Otago would be a much easier (and quicker) option, than setting up a new medical school from scratch.

              I don't buy Little's argument.

              “The problem we have is the ability to get them supervision for their first and second postgraduate years,” he said.

              Again, it's a matter of directing the hospitals/DHBs to find the placements (and the supervising staff). Junior doctors are massively (ridiculously and even dangerously) overworked in hospitals – so the need for more of them is highly evident. The supervision seems to consist of joining a senior doctor on his rounds/patient interviews (there is little supervision evident when the residents are on duty alone in the middle of the night in the ED) – and being 'on call' for emergencies. It shouldn't be that hard to expand it….if the will is there.

              Even the CMO at Middlemore (which has to have been the hospital hardest hit by the Covid crisis) has strongly indicated that they have capacity to supervise more staff.

              “I think if Covid’s shown us anything,” he said, “There’s smarter ways to working in many respects… which may allow us to be more confident that we can train more doctors.”

              • Incognito …
                1 June 2022 at 9:14 pm

                I don’t buy Little’s argument either because it ignores the fact that training of doctors is a pipeline and a rather long one for that. It is almost as if he’s looking for a reason not to provide extra funding to the existing med schools to increase intake over the next 6 years. However, even that won’t double the numbers, which is what you asked for @ 11.2.1.1.

                Some gaps could be filled by international students (e.g. https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/fmhs/study-with-us/fmhs-international/overseas-electives-scheme.html).

                There are other constraints than those hospital places. The statement of the Middlemore CMO was weak as piss and as non-committal as they come.

                • Belladonna …
                  1 June 2022 at 9:32 pm

                  TBH – at this stage everyone in the health system is screaming 'crisis'.

                  It's bad now (looking at the news reports of critically overloaded hospital waiting rooms – and we're only in the first days of winter). Yes it's 'always' been a problem in winter – but it's just getting worse every year.

                  I want to see some practical action taken to radically increase the training pathways in the whole spectrum of medical professions.

                  Yes, it won't fix the crisis now, but it will make strides towards fixing the crisis in the future.

                  I just don't see that reforming the health infrastructure (DHB replacement) is the highest health priority that the government can have. None of those health reforms will put one extra doctor, nurse or radiologist in a hospital ward.

                  I just can't figure out why the Government seem completely unwilling to tackle the medical guild system head-on.

                  I'm not a great fan of the overseas elective scheme – the damning coverage of the way it was abused by Kiwis using it to get a nice holiday, rather than actually working, makes me equally worried about how it works in practice here in NZ.
                  I'd be more inclined to offer those final year med students accelerated immigration to NZ – with a 10 year bond to work in NZ before leaving (for Oz – as they'll be tempted to do).

                  It's not my preference (I think that we have to urgently stop raiding other countries to staff our health system) – but if we need to do it for 5-10 years while we get ourselves out of the mess we're in, I could live with that.

                  But it's only a stop-gap. Not a solution.

  12. Puckish Rogue 12
    31 May 2022 at 2:35 pm

    Politics is downstream from culture.

    https://deadline.com/2022/05/top-gun-maverick-box-office-1235034420/

    'Paramount/Skydance’s Top Gun: Maverick has beaten Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean: At World’s End fair and square for the Memorial Day opening 4-day record (+ previews) at the domestic box office with $156M.'

    The tide is well and truly starting (only starting unfortunately) to change.

    Dr Who as it currently stands is well and truly dead, The Marvel movies are a pale imitation of what they once were, Star Wars doesn't realise its dying and Star Trek hasn't been Star Trek since Abrams and Kurtzman get their grubby little paws on it.

    Top Gun: Maverick, Spider-Man: No Way Home (basically a Sony movie), Ghostbusters: Afterlife (well received), Reacher (tv series) are all proof that what the paying public want is not what the cultural overloads want us to watch

    Change is coming and some people are going to find themselves out of work and I can't wait

    Or in the words of a well-known (in her circle) comic book writer, yes she really said it:

    • joe90 12.1
      31 May 2022 at 4:21 pm

      Star Trek hasn't been Star Trek since Abrams and Kurtzman get their grubby little paws on it.

      Did you miss the original series featuring a white 'jack the lad' American skipper leading a diverse crew he treats and regards as equals, interacting with an infinite number of equally valid and worthy configurations of life, righting wrongs, fighting plague, pestilence, natural disasters and despots, bringing peace and prosperity to the Universe on behalf of the woke AF Federation?

      • Puckish Rogue 12.1.1
        31 May 2022 at 4:39 pm

        You missed my point.

        I'll repeat it for you.

        Star Trek hasn't been Star Trek SINCE Abrams and Kurtzman get their grubby little paws on it.

        SINCE

        Meaning Star Trek, Deep Space Nine, The Next Generation even Enterprise were better than the Star Trek tv series and movies we get now

        Its worse because Abrams and Kurtzman clearly don't understand what made the original Star Trek great.

        'Did you miss the original series featuring a white 'jack the lad' American skipper leading a diverse crew he treats and regards as equals, interacting with an infinite number of equally valid and worthy configurations of life, righting wrongs, fighting plague, pestilence, natural disasters and despots, bringing peace and prosperity to the Universe on behalf of the woke AF Federation?'

        I miss that hopeful, positive and well written Star Trek, instead now we get crying space jesus.

    • roblogic 12.2
      2 June 2022 at 1:31 am

      ST: Brave New Worlds and ST: Lower Decks are worth a watch. ST: Discovery is trash, but with flashy SFX

      Dave Filoni created a gem from the rubble of Star Wars, with The Mandalorian. Nothing much else since the original trilogy is worth it. The new "Obi-Wan" series is uneven, but OK so far.

      Marvel is good at producing shiny new baubles of little substance. The Captain America stuff holds up, probably because of the lack of gimmicks and he's actually a decent person.

      Everything Everywhere All At Once was a great standalone movie. More of this original storytelling please!

      • Puckish Rogue 12.2.1
        2 June 2022 at 5:39 am

        The Mandalorian was ok at best (it seems better in comparison to everything else at the moment)

        As soon as I saw this I knew how trash Obi-Wan would be but it is another good example of bait and switch (who really is the main character in this):

        Marvel was good but since Disney took over (like Star Wars) its just gone downhill

        'Everything Everywhere All At Once was a great standalone movie. More of this original storytelling please!'

        Yes absolutely agree

  13. Reality 13
    31 May 2022 at 3:05 pm

    Let's hope Aldi comes to NZ! Big enough to make a major inroad into the supermarket shopping scene. A smaller player could struggle to get established.

    Latest poll has Labour ahead. Good to see.

    Had phone conversation yesterday with Healthline re being a Covid household contact. I cannot speak too highly about the whole process, from registering with the Ministry of Health, quick email response, phone follow up, call from GP, and call to myself. Plus daily nurse phone call. I complimented Healthline on their excellent service and said to the caller that people always loudly complain publicly if things don't always go right but don't publicly give thanks to a good service. The caller was very appreciative as they must get some horrible people to deal with at times.

    • Belladonna 13.1
      31 May 2022 at 3:19 pm

      Latest poll has Labour ahead. Good to see.

      Which poll are you referring to? Or is this Australia?

  14. Reality 14
    31 May 2022 at 3:37 pm

    No Belladonna, not Australia. Talbot Mills poll out today.

  15. Ad 15
    31 May 2022 at 4:01 pm

    "In this super-narrative, the structures set forth in He Puapua to secure tino rangatiratanga, will actually ensure the exclusion of the vast majority of New Zealanders from the key locations of power."

    Bowalley Road: Nanaia Mahuta’s Super-Narrative.

    I try not to get irritated at Chris Trotter, but this takes the cake.

    The 'key locations of power' are actually found in the trusts and boardrooms of our 1%. They are held, overwhelmingly, by white males. These white males are most certainly well qualified since they are exceptionally well educated and on average have had resource shunted their way since birth. Unlike Maori such 1%-ers are not at the furthest remove of power, where Maori are statistically speaking far more likely to be in jail, sick, underqualified, poor, arrested, beaten or otherwise victimised by crime, and in gangs.

    It is going to take more and more public and private institutions influenced by Maori to show the kind of difference Maori can make in the 'key locations of power'.

    The repulsive scaremongering about Nanaia Mahuta going on right now is most likely because she is seeking to choke off power from agribusiness in the form of water management, and agribusiness is the pinnacle of the white male 'key location of power'.

    I am sure Mahuta expects the slurs and attacks to continue until the power shift really takes place and is irreversible.

    Of all this government's Ministers, Mahuta alone is seeking to actually shift power.

    • Subliminal 15.1
      31 May 2022 at 4:59 pm

      Well said Ad and all power to her. To be driving this and foreign affairs says a lot about her strength and determination. One would think that Trotter would understand power dynamics. If Mahuta is successful with 3 waters she will have made a huge leap for co governance and honouring the Treaty.

    • RedLogix 15.2
      31 May 2022 at 7:05 pm

      Of all this government's Ministers, Mahuta alone is seeking to actually shift power.

      But where to?

      In this super-narrative, the structures set forth in He Puapua to secure tino rangatiratanga, will actually ensure the exclusion of the vast majority of New Zealanders from the key locations of power. The only positive consequence of which will be a common struggle for political and economic equality in which non-elite Māori and Pakeha will have every incentive to involve themselves.

      • SPC 15.2.1
        31 May 2022 at 7:09 pm

        How involved would anyone be if the water assets were in private sector ownership?

        • RedLogix 15.2.1.1
          31 May 2022 at 7:17 pm

          What is your point?

          • SPC 15.2.1.1.1
            1 June 2022 at 7:15 pm

            I cannot predict WHEN you choose to play dumb RL.

            But obviously once assets are sold, private citizen involvement in decision-making is over.

            The organisation structure proposed (with continued public ownership) is about delivering results to the public not shareholders.

            • RedLogix 15.2.1.1.1.1
              1 June 2022 at 8:33 pm

              Well maybe I'm not so much as dumb as ill-informed. I was quite unaware that this Labour govt had proposed that the only alternative to Three Waters was going to be a mass privatisation.

              • SPC …
                1 June 2022 at 9:51 pm

                It's National's alternative – they have no plans to tax and invest in public assets.

                  • SPC …
                    1 June 2022 at 11:03 pm

                    Keep it in local control – indebted councils that cannot afford to invest to maintain water quality can privatise. I am sure National is well aware of that, why you do not is another matter.

                    I find it interesting you once thought the reforms were a good solution to realise the necessary investment, until informed about partnership with Maori.

                    • RedLogix …
                      2 June 2022 at 7:50 am

                      I have been quite clear on this. Technical and operational consolidation is highly desirable. Handing control of the asset to private iwi elites does not seem necessary to achieve this however.

                    • SPC …
                      2 June 2022 at 8:04 am

                      Partnership is not control and private iwi elites would have no ownership stake.

                    • RedLogix …
                      3 June 2022 at 5:59 am

                      The current use of the word 'partnership' is so open ended and vague as to be meaningless.

                    • Incognito []
                      3 June 2022 at 8:16 am

                      That’s the whole pain point! Instead of the placating and tokenism that we have seen for years it is about genuine meaningful participation. The form & style of what that entails and looks like is still to be determined through public submissions, among other things. Ownership in the legal meaning has been ruled out.

                      I don’t particularly like some of the noises coming from certain quarters in Wellington and it could easily end up being an unmitigated disaster. Equally, it could be the conception of a whole new paradigm for relationships in Aotearoa-New Zealand and a first in the World. Actually, conception is the wrong word, because it has already been experimented with and happening on a smaller scale for years.

            • gypsy 15.2.1.1.1.2
              1 June 2022 at 10:49 pm

              Except there is no evidence 3Waters will deliver results. In fact if it was such a winner, the government would not be having to force it through after promising it would be voluntary.

              • roblogic …
                2 June 2022 at 1:36 am

                "No evidence" is the claim made by the lazy and prejudiced who like to announce their reckons free of the encumbrance of inconvenient facts.

                three waters reform programme national evidence base – dia.govt.nz

                • gypsy …
                  2 June 2022 at 10:18 am

                  We've been here before. If 3Waters is the answer, actually list the results it will achieve that integrated water providers, modelled in Watercare, cannot achieve more efficiently and without the added costs.

                  BTW:
                  “There could also be added reason for caution in adopting a Scottish model, based on a BBC article two months ago titled “Scotland’s growing sewage spill problem”.

                  New Scottish Water data showed the number of recorded sewage spills in the nation’s rivers and seas had increased by 40 percent over the past five years; the equivalent of 47,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools worth of waste released through 3697 Combined Sewer Overflows (CSOs), including 12,725 “spill events” last year.

                  The article noted that Scottish Water was “only required to monitor less than 3 percent of these CSOs for pollution, so the true scale of how much water waste is discharged is unknown”. It also stated that the data provided in a Freedom Of Information response didn’t indicate which bodies of water were being polluted by each spill, and there was no volume data provided for just over half of the spill events.

                  “A total of 654 CSOs which do not have adequate screening to retain sewage debris are classified as unsatisfactory by Scottish Water. Some 192 of them have been in this state since before the creation of the publicly-owned firm in 2003.””
                  https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/editorial/opinion/20211001/scottish-water-model-a-red-flag/

                • gypsy …
                  2 June 2022 at 10:31 am

                  Meanwhile, others have picked apart the basis of the WICS analysis.

                  3 Waters is not about providing more efficient or effective water services. It never was. It is about co-governance, pandering to tribal elites and jobs for whanau.

                  • roblogic …
                    3 June 2022 at 1:37 am

                    You are not commenting in good faith. After falsely claiming there is "no evidence" now you are attacking something that doesn't even exist yet.

                    Fearmongering about governance is pandering to racism.

                    And you're politicising a much needed infrastructure upgrade in the face of a climate crisis and decaying neglected water systems. So that National can swoop in and continue the failing status quo, or worse, sell off everything to China.

                    Disgraceful

                    • Incognito …
                      3 June 2022 at 8:06 am

                      yes

                    • gypsy …
                      3 June 2022 at 11:24 am

                      You're wrong. When I claimed there was no evidence I thought you would read that in good faith, that the lack of evidence was concrete. The 'evidence' you claim exists for 3 waters is illusory.

                      “And you’re politicising a much needed infrastructure upgrade”
                      That is the response of a fool. I am not questioning the need for an ‘upgrade’, in fact I have commented on the need for more investment. The politicisation of this is at the feet of this government, who have been slippery on 3Waters from the outset.

      • Ad 15.2.2
        31 May 2022 at 7:17 pm

        Hopefully stopping the dairy industry esp Fonterra choking our country to death

        • RedLogix 15.2.2.1
          31 May 2022 at 7:29 pm

          New Zealand’s Top 10 Exports

          The following export product groups categorize the highest dollar value in global shipments from New Zealand during 2021. Also shown is the percentage share each export category represents in terms of overall exports from New Zealand.

          1. Dairy, eggs, honey: US$12.4 billion (28.5% of total exports)
          2. Meat: $6.2 billion (14.2%)
          3. Wood: $3.9 billion (9%)
          4. Fruits, nuts: $2.8 billion (6.4%)
          5. Beverages, spirits, vinegar: $1.6 billion (3.7%)
          6. Cereal/milk preparations: $1.4 billion (3.3%)
          7. Modified starches, glues, enzymes: $1.2 billion (2.8%)
          8. Fish: $1.2 billion (2.7%)
          9. Machinery including computers: $1.1 billion (2.6%)
          10. Aluminum: $996.2 million (2.3%)

          You have to get down to No 9 and 10 before you to anything non-primary industry related. So if you want to choke off dairy by constraining its access to water – anything you replace it with is likely to be primary as well and ultimately encounter similar environmental objections.

          And as Poisson notes below, the idea that the tribal elites who are so heavily invested in agriculture are going to undermine their own cash cow seems unlikely in my view.

    • Poission 15.3
      31 May 2022 at 7:08 pm

      The repulsive scaremongering about Nanaia Mahuta going on right now is most likely because she is seeking to choke off power from agribusiness in the form of water management, and agribusiness is the pinnacle of the white male 'key location of power'.

      What a lot of twaddle,Maori business is now worth over 45b$,a substantive part being Agriculture ( the largest suppliers in Taranaki to Fonterra are Iwi,both in their investments and managed collective units.

      As is fishing,and beef and lamb across NZ.

    • swordfish 15.4
      1 June 2022 at 6:41 pm

      Ad (15)

      Your crude, unconvincing framing is really gonna have to become a damn sight more adept if you hope to win over even the slimmest of majorities for your inherently elitist, profoundly undemocratic desires. Whatever else you are (& obviously that’s going to include highly privileged Corporate Manager) … you’re no social democrat.

      • SPC 15.4.1
        1 June 2022 at 7:26 pm

        Yeah, retaining assets in public ownership and ensuring greater level of investment to deliver results to New Zealanders (rather than a path to privatisation and rewards to shareholders) is not that of a social democrat government … because of Maori.

        When those on the left, oppose a reform to secure public ownership (when there is need for investment and local councils have debt pressures), the neo-liberal right apprise themselves of the opportunities this avails for graft and corruption with on-sale to global corporates.

  16. Reality 16
    31 May 2022 at 4:07 pm

    Well Incognito, guess my skills don't match yours! An IPad is not a laptop.

    • Incognito 16.1
      31 May 2022 at 4:13 pm

      Fine, then point us in the direction of where you saw the poll and/or where we can see it for ourselves. Surely, you can do that, at least?

  17. Reality 17
    31 May 2022 at 4:41 pm

    You have these superior skills of course. Perhaps we all have different abilities.

    The poll results were published in the Herald at 12.48pm.

  18. Reality 18
    31 May 2022 at 5:31 pm

    Courtesy should apply to each of us and unwarranted sarcasm quite frankly is not attractive. There is not always much reason to come to this site but there are enough tolerant people still posting!

  19. Ad 19
    31 May 2022 at 7:04 pm

    Hopefully to stopping the dairy industry from choking our country to death.

  20. Reality 20
    31 May 2022 at 7:33 pm

    "Rambling" about your unpleasant and sarcastic responses, which you are fond of doing if posters are not suitably submissive to your "wisdom".

    • Incognito 20.1
      31 May 2022 at 9:21 pm

      ‘kay. And here I was thinking that I had directed any of my unpleasant and sarcastic responses to you surprise

      Here’s something you may like: learn to link and learn to use the Reply button (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-31-05-2022/?replytocom=1891344#respond) crying

      As far as I can tell you’ve made 612 comments here over more than 7 years and not a single one contained a link. Not a single one!! You’ve been moderated for this twice by weka: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19-10-2020/#comment-1760747 and here (https://thestandard.org.nz/willie-on-the-unions/#comment-1296748), both for not providing a link angry

      Since this comment (https://thestandard.org.nz/national-crashes-select-committee-meeting/#comment-1582837) on 13 Feb 2019 you’ve only once used the Reply button, which was ironically in a reply to me (8 May 2022) laugh

      Your also history shows that you’re a judgemental codger with regard to Posts and comments by Authors as well as of many others here no

      I have no idea how you got away with the above, but in future you can expect Mod notes from me wink

      If you need help with replying and/or linking on an iPad all you need to do is ask. If not, expect unpleasant and sarcastic responses from me in the Mod notes angel

      PS I volunteer a lot of my time here, in between my many other commitments and obligations, so forgive me if I get a bit short with some repeat offenders here devil

      • roblogic 20.1.1
        2 June 2022 at 1:47 am

        iPad users need to turn off Javascript (Settings > Safari > Advanced) in order to reply to comment threads. Seems to be a bug in the comment widget for those devices. Otherwise they can only add new comments at the root level as Reality here is doing.

        The cure for bad attitude and failing to add links is not so straightforward. cool

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.