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Open mike 31/08/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 31st, 2022 - 194 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

194 comments on “Open mike 31/08/2022 ”

    • weka 1.1

      Kiwisaver rules stop people from using the funds as investment that fuels the housing crisis.


      • bwaghorn 1.1.1

        Yeah so fuck rural workers ,

        There’s a big difference between investment properties and essential rural workers getting a house for there retirement, I no I need it to happen or it’s looking like a bus for me at 65,

    • Sacha 1.2

      Kiwisaver is designed to be a retirement 'nest egg' in itself, not to help property investment – other than homes to live in yourself (which already undermines the scheme's purpose). Our economy is already over-exposed to that one asset class. Plenty of us will never own our own home, no matter where we rent.

      • bwaghorn 1.2.1

        It's not properly investment if you intend it to be your home at retirement, farming is a live in job in many cases, due to lack of options to do otherwise, not to mention that it's an on call 24/7 job once your up at management level ,

        • Sacha

          How would you word an exemption?

          • bwaghorn

            I belive the guy in the article covers that, if the applicant has a tenancy agreement with his/her/whatever your calling yourselfs, employer then they are eligible, we pay rent for our houses, .

  1. bwaghorn 2

    Luxons got a stop the retirement tax site up in running, labour is fucked, it's wall to wall wealth tax on the am show.

    • mikesh 2.1

      Say that in English, and then maybe we will know what you're talking about.

      • Shanreagh 2.1.1

        I second that. Retirement tax, wealth tax? What the …….?sad

        • DB Brown

          "Fear of bank fees" is the sound bite to counter this horse shit.

          • Crashcart

            GST is regressive. Just like supermarkets and gas stations it is not the Kiwi saver managers who will pay this. It will come directly off contributions made just like current fees. The cost compounds as the lost investment can't earn and people will see real impacts on their Kiwi saver funds at retirement. Especially those on low incomes who this will be a larger portion of their contributions.

            This is a truly terrible idea and it is crazy that so many people are willing to jump in and defend it simply because Labour are doing it.

        • bwaghorn

          It's going to cost the average kiwisaver account $20 ,000 over its term apparently.

          • RosieLee

            Evidence please. Facts and figures.

          • Barfly

            $20,000 sounds like a lot – but that would mean that the management fees were $133,000 before that (no talk about that) and the biggie of course is how much would the expected payout be? Obviously it would be greater than a million but without the numbers it's just all hype and bullshit.

    • observer 2.2

      It's a free gift to Luxon and he's taking it, gleefully. Very poor political management by Labour. The change can be defended long-term but introducing it in this way … did anyone seriously think that wasn't going to be a headline?

      Ardern and Robertson need to take charge here, not Parker.

      • Sacha 2.2.1

        Being sneaky about it was never going to work. Bad advice/decisions.

      • Shanreagh 2.2.2

        For those not clued to talkback or other radio or TV please link.

        It's a free gift to Luxon and he's taking it, gleefully. Very poor political management by Labour. The change can be defended long-term but introducing it in this way … did anyone seriously think that wasn't going to be a headline?

        • observer

          Link: all media this morning.

          Every Wednesday the leader of the opposition does the media rounds (a long-standing convention, it predates Luxon). He must have been overjoyed to discover Parker had given him an early Christmas, so he could spend less time talking about National's problems.

          I don't see much point defending this stuff-up, because it will be walked back soon.

          • Cricklewood

            Pretty much everyone is talking about it at work and out on the jobsite today, anger is palpable and driven by not quite understanding what the change is. But think there will be very little chance of shifting the govt is going to take some of my savings narrative at this point.

            • observer

              I don't see much point defending this stuff-up, because it will be walked back soon.

              And now this has already happened, Parker confirms.

              It was very predictable.

      • KJT 2.2.3

        National opposes a small tax on banks, should be the headline. It is not on your Kiwisaver. Luxon is financially illiterate. Or lying.

        Labour giving in to the framing is an own goal.

        Which happens way to often.

        • observer

          Because they didn't frame it. If a government makes an announcement, they have first mover advantage.

          Parker didn't use it, so the opposition did it for him. Basic error.

          • logie97

            Apparently Parker has now scrapped the Tax.

            Is there any party coordination or consultation on policy releases?

            Jacinda appears to have a lot of loose canons in her cabinet and it is not a good look. It is getting hard to defend failed on-the-hoof policies from her administration with this one being the latest, and the second failure of Parker's policy releases in a few weeks.

            Getting a little depressed by this.

          • Incognito

            There’s an awful lot proposed in the Tax Bill, way too much to cover in one or two announcements.

    • roy cartland 2.3

      [David Parker] "There's a lot of misinformation in the media today suggesting that we're charging GST on KiwiSaver contributions. We're not.

      "We are proposing to close the loophole whereby some KiwiSaver service providers claim back a lot of the GST they incur from subcontractors where others don't."

      That's a bit different to a wealth tax, and all the screeching headlines. (From RNZ)

      • roy cartland 2.3.1

        This implies that it's the providers who will be passing on costs of the tax they have to pay to the savers, not the Govt taking it. Switch to funds who don't do this. ¯_ _(ツ)_/¯

  2. PsyclingLeft.Always 3

    A dairying development planned for the edge of a national park could damage one of the last strongholds of "100% Pure New Zealand", neighbours who oppose the project say.

    "It would be just the start of intensified, commercial non-sustainable farming in the Te Anau Basin.

    "It’s just the wrong place. This is one of the last strongholds of a clean environment here in New Zealand."

    Southland Forest & Bird branch member Jenny Campbell, writing on behalf of Coal Action Murihiku, said a heavy rainfall after an effluent discharge to land could be "an environmental disaster for the Waiau River", which was a huge recreational asset for the Te Anau and Manapouri community.

    The project already received consent from Environment Southland, in May last year, to discharge agricultural effluent to land from 1600 cows; to use land to build and use an effluent storage pond; and to use land for the wintering barns.

    However, Mr Sliva said he and other Te Anau residents only heard about it after it was approved.

    The initial application went through the regional council process as a non-notified consent and he and others only heard of the project about six months ago.

    The present application with the district council was the first opportunity they had to take part in the process and the first priority was to "stop the barns", he said.


    “a non-notified consent” ? WTF !? Seems like this should have been…at the very least ! Good that people are Activating about it. Fight back !

    • weka 3.1

      rural land has long had a lot of leeway in what can be done on it. That's why we're in the mess we are in.

    • Bearded Git 3.2

      When applications are heard as non-notified, consent being granted is usually a foregone conclusion from my experience.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.2.1

        Hi. Sadly, yea that seems to be the way of it. And a way to “hide” their dirty intentions. As in the opponents only heard 6 months prior…Similar to the situation when some creep….ah, "Developer", cuts down Native Trees..or roots up a NZ Biodiverse area of land…and applies for "Retrospective Consent"…and quite often gets it. Still is shit.

  3. joe90 4

    Collaborating is bad for you.

  4. DB Brown 5

    Yesterday I watched a clip of Pakistani folk stuck on a small island in the center of a raging torrent. They were wading into the torrent to collect firewood from the water.

    Perched on that island a fire was burning and water being boiled. No food, no apparent way out, still they fight to survive.

    Contrast their fragile grip on life with that feckless fatuous fuck Luxon trying to drum up fear of bank fees.

    Bwaghorn thinks we should be afraid. Zero clues though of what we should actually be afraid of.

    These clowns will be the death of us.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.1

      "feckless fatuous fuck" "fear of bank fees."

      That is some damn fine alliteration ! And yep Luxon..blowing the special dog whistle for all he's worth. And of course Ex ceo Luxon be well Insulated from Lifes Problems anyway.

      Sadly the scumbag will get attention from this….

    • Crashcart 5.2

      How in all that is sane can you use the tragedy in Pakistan to defend the government hitting peoples Kiwi savers.

      That is some really despicable shit. Whats next? Nats shouldn't mention Sharma because there are child slaves in the Congo. How about the Greens not talk about affordable housing because Yemen is being bombed.

      How about you actually defend the Tax policy that will see poor kiwis even more poor when they get to retirement. How about you address the regressive nature of GST and why a Labour governent rather than trying to find ways to not hit those at the bottom with it (GST free groceries) instead find a way to hit them harder.

      • DB Brown 5.2.1

        How about you understand what you are talking about before you talk about it.

        "Despicable shit"

        No, the reality of the world vs your hyperbolic bullshit.

        • Crashcart

          You're the one talking about the Floods and the struggle of the people in Pakistan yet call me hyperbolic. Perhaps a bit of self reflection mate.

          • DB Brown

            One is an actual catastrophe, one is a blithering idiot trying to appear relevant.

            But go ahead: other than torrential rains, tell me exactly how the sky is falling?

            • Crashcart

              No one claimed the sky is falling. They claimed that a new tax policy was bad, and within 24 hours the government agreed with them and withdrew it.

              You have accused people using hyperbole without providing any evidence of that, and then went on to use an extreme example of it to try and discount their concerns. Again concerns that the government have now accepted.

      • weka 5.2.2

        How about you actually defend the Tax policy that will see poor kiwis even more poor when they get to retirement.

        DB's point was that National are wasting everyone's time with this petty shit instead of addressing climate change, which is currently killing people in poor countries and will eventually kill us too if we don't sort our priorities out.

        • Crashcart

          Which he could have made without comparing it to the floods in Pakistan. A completely unrelated topic that he specifically used to minimise the impact of this.

          It is a classic tactic to talk about the smallest number possible when arguing in favour of something like this. However the week to week cost is not the issue here. Someones Kiwi saver contributions don't go up. They won't even notice the change in their pay packet. Where it will hurt is that increase comes out of their contributions. That is money that doesn't get invested in their name and so doesn't earn and grow for their retirement. It is already being speculated that this could cost an average kiwi saver $20,000 in their retirement.


          I don't know what DBs financial situation is like but when we have already recently had stories highlighting that people are looking at a $400 a week short fall in their retirement (numbers for people currently in their 40s), then I doubt their is much argument that they can afford to be $20,00 poorer. If there is an argument for that, then the Government needs to make it fast or they deserve every hit the opposition gives them until they do.


          • Robert Guyton

            "It is already being speculated that this could …"

            " …we have already recently had stories …"

            Good to read those cold, hard facts.

            • DB Brown

              Succinct, and all that.

            • Crashcart

              Sorry I didn't get issued with a crystal ball to provide you with "cold hard facts". I mean, I don't have any reason to not believe Tax specialist Allan Bullot's assessment, but I am sure you can provide some cold hard facts as to why he was wrong. Although I did read that the IRD's own assessment also came up with just over the $20,000 figure so if that is the case then it is the information the government would have been working off as well.

              I suppose if the retirement commision's assessment of retirement savings short falls isn't cold and hard enough for you then I'm not sure what you are after here.

              So far I see people providing numbers as to what this will cost as a reason why it is bad. I am sure you can do the same to tell us why it is good. I hope it is a bit better than "it will only cost $4.50 a week" as that has already been addressed.

              • DB Brown

                You poor wee dear you sound like you need a bit of a lie down after all day's activities of (checks notes) getting angry at me for pointing out the fatuous and pointless nature of our opposition.

                But you assure one and all it is indeed a wicked affair, borne of evil intent, and your retirement will be trashed, and people are angry, and at work they said angry stuff though they also didn't know what they were talking about and…

                oh wait, it got rolled back.

                And here's me thinking you were all being forced to the will of some communist doctrine by a corrupt unfeeling regime.

                • Robert Guyton

                  Crashcart will be in celebration-mode now, because… nothing happened – the dream of good conservatives everywhere!

  5. Incognito 6

    Public transport will be exempt from fringe benefit tax under proposals in an annual tax Bill introduced today.


  6. Patricia Bremner 7

    Luxon and his lamentable crew will play

    Tax and spend,

    Taking your money,

    Law and order,

    Wasteful benefit spending,

    Lack of productivity,

    Poor Auckland,

    Have not done anything,

    Keep water local.

    As having Policy that can be pulled to bits is too hard. National is avoiding creating any accountable targets, it is all slogans.

    Creating memes.

    We need our list.

    Stop greed

    Clean water

    Living wage

    Fair safe work

    As they are remembered and repeated.

    • Ad 7.1

      Pretty hard to see Labour turning it around after this month.

      Lost the crime narrative, despite ample facts.

      Lost the tax narrative, by doing so little.

      Lost welfare narrative with botched CPI rollout.

      Lost the health narrative, amazingly, with crisis-filled health system.

      The massive subsidies its providing have been a terrible substitute for economic reform.

      Lost the 'be loyal' sentiment by screwing with Kiwibank and Kiwisaver.

      Labour look Lost because they are.

      • Jester 7.1.1

        Yes, it almost seems like Labour do not want a third term. Is the mess that big?

        • alwyn

          Unfortunately yes. The mess really is that bad.

          The current Government are in just the same situation as Rob Muldoon in 1984. They have absolutely no idea how to get out of the mess they have created in my opinion.

      • Bearded Git 7.1.2

        With friends like you Ad……

        • Ad

          If I ruled the world every day would be the first day of spring.

          II therefore command spring to start in 14 hours.

          • Incognito

            Some lousy small world ruler you’d be when you only command one time zone and only on the Southern hemisphere at that and possibly only in NZ because you’d peak too early by about 3 weeks.

  7. Ad 8

    How many here are Kiwibank customers like me?

    Three weeks ago they sold out our Kiwisaver to Fisher Funds for $310m. No one asked us.

    Two weeks ago the government bought half it back for $2,1 billion. No one asked us.

    This week they are taxing Kiwisaver. No one asked us.

    None of these moves were on their manifesto.

    None were in the budget.

    Kiwibank has only 6% of the mortgage market but a long and loyal customer base.

    Customers are voters.

    Ardern may want to argue about chocolate wrappers but she is going to lose thousands of votes along with thousands of customers.

    Labour looks like it could not run a bath.

    • weka 8.1

      Anyone who voted Labour in 2020 has a modicum but not a lot of sympathy from me. Who gave Labour the majority government to do what they want? Labour voters did. This isn't a fault, it's the system as intended.

      Labour losing thousands of votes to GP and TPM next year is a good thing, because then power will be shared more broadly, more democracy will ensue. Trick will be not losing so many that they can't form government at all.

      • Poission 8.1.1

        Greens are being matched with the significant damage they have done to the German economy,and Europe in General,

        • weka

          you're blaming the Greens in Germany for inflation in Germany and the rest of Europe?

          • Poission

            The Greens done a deal with Schroder to reduce Nuclear baseline generation in exchange for intermittent renewables and Russian gas ,they spent half a trillion dollars on so called renewables (of which most are not co2 free such as wood),now with intergrated electricity system in Europe the price cascade extends.

            With the German trade balance now gone,it becomes a debtor market as it borrows for imports,and subsidies for social housing etc.

            The UK got themselves in trouble by contracting out energy supply to Europe,(little Russian Gas,but Norway is interconnected for gas and electricity,and France for electricity.They also removed storage for gas ,for a just in time model.

      • Ad 8.1.2

        When you're out of government there's no power to redistribute.

        Best of luck dividing zero.

        • Sabine

          In Germany the Greens are part of the government. As is the German answer to Act the FDP, together with the SPD – Labour in NZ. They call it the Traffic light coalition, Red, Yellow, Green.

        • weka

          that's such an obviousness it's not worth saying. Instead of deflecting, maybe look at the choices here. Labour members can try and do something internally. Voters can be more strategic in who they vote for.

          • Sabine

            Or, the Greens could realise that they have supported labour without fault every single step at the time and got nowhere.

            Btw, the Greens in Germany have been more then once in parliament, and have had considerable success in getting legislation enacted. One of them is hte shut down of the nuclear reactors in Germany.

            From 2003


            from 2003


            ''They give us the choice between plague or cholera — either global warming or nuclear waste,'' said Michaele Hustedt, a spokeswoman for the Green Party in Germany.

            The Greens demanded and won a promise that nuclear plants would be phased out in Germany when they joined the Social Democrats to form a ruling majority in 1998.

            and considering that they are still arguing for the phase out in the times of an energy crisis (lol) one could argue that maybe the Greens of Germany do actually have some responsablity considering that they are in government, and actually get stuff done.


            Maybe it would be best not to compare the German Green Party to the NZ Green Party.


            • weka

              Or, the Greens could realise that they have supported labour without fault every single step at the time and got nowhere.

              That's bizarrely ahistorical.

              • Sabine

                Not in NZ. Again , it depends what you see as a success.

                Currently you could say that James Shaw is a success for the Labour Party, however, he might not be for the Green Party. What he has achieved for people on the ground remains to be seen.

                • weka

                  this is ridiculous. He's introduced a range of climate policies that we didn't have before and that are starting to address the biggest crisis of all time.

                  it depends what you see as a success.

                  Indeed, but some people aren't happy, or can't see the wood for the trees. They pull Labour left/green all the time.

            • weka

              can you really not see the Green Party policy being enacted over the years?

              • Sabine

                I see what has been enacted. I see to fail how it serves the public, and I say this as someone who until 2014 has given votes to the Green.

                • weka

                  this is vague hand waving. Be specific or it's useless dialogue.

                  • Sabine

                    I can't list a success as for me they did not have one, unless you consider the Self ID bill 🙂 a success then yes, they did have one, at the expense of non males.

                    • Sabine

                      Thanks Arkie for the correction. I guess watching he submissions just traumatised me to the point were i put KereKeres face to this implementation of the Self ID bill. I did not see Jan Tinetti in the submissions, but remember Deborah Russel (she with the back pain and the 'fuck off tweet').

                      As i said, this was a success for the Greens as this is one of the very few policies were they actually got what they wanted, as did Labour, hence why both parties will not get my vote. You see, i am an identity voter, always have been always will. And that for most part of my life was the reason of either voting L, G or another left leaning party depending the electorate.

                      Having never voted right in my life, so will not consider that an option. I am sure i will find a nice obscure little third party to cast a vote for.

                      Hate? Nah, i just can't be bothered with our current three large parties, whom personally i think are no longer fit for purpose considering the storm that is coming.


            • observer

              the Greens could realise that they have supported labour without fault every single step at the time and got nowhere.

              The first statement is not true (2002 for example) and the second is obviously subjective, but "nowhere" doesn't stand up.

              But more to the point, how can the Greens change National? Can they really say "yes, we're open to some kind of co-operation so we'll just leave climate change to one side and try and work together on plastic bags"? That's what it comes down to. The Greens can't make the Nats be not Nats.

              • Sabine

                The Greens, or any other third Party should insist on their policies to be enacted should they enter a coalition agreement with other parties. They would then have been elected in large enough numbers to do so, if it comes to that point. Keep in mind that the voters that elected these Green candidates have not elected them to 'change' Labour or National or anyone else for that matter, they have elected the Green Party candidates to word for the Green Party.

                I think this 'must change National' 'change Labour' is a bit of a silly idea, one in general that can never be completed. Change must come from within, and currently neither National or Labour are willing to commit to the change needed.

                As for the Greens in NZ or Germany for that matter, they are not at all my cup o'tea and i will not cast a vote for them.

                • weka

                  The Greens, or any other third Party should insist on their policies to be enacted should they enter a coalition agreement with other parties

                  What are you on about?

                  The Greens aren't in coalition with Labour. Labour have a majority.

                  In 2017, Labour had a coalition agreement with NZF, and a C/S agreement with the Greens.

                  • Sabine

                    yes, because literally the Greens are – in the eyes of L – a wholly owned subsidiary of Labour. 🙂 – this might be a bit extreme wording on my part, but any party that rules out working with other parties is binding themselves to a 'single' Partner, no matter if that has any benefits or not. And that is what the Green in NZ have done.

                    Hence why the Labour Party has actually no reason whatsoever to even pretend to want to work with the Greens on anything at all, or only on these little things that actually make labour look good.

                    I doubt that the Greens in NZ would ever get through an agreement to phase out nuclear (hypothetical of course ) energy in order to prop up a Labour government. The best the Greens can get is what they got currently with Shaw on the environmental side, and what they got via KereKere in the Genderwoowoo department.

                    I would also like to point out – again this is my own humble opinion – that the leader of the Labour Party kneecapped Chlow Swarbruck with the Cannabis referendum. I would like for you to give a thought just for a second to the leader of the country that could not see the political side of locking people up for growing and smoking a plant in 2022, for the huge costs of that law enforcement, the racist practices of locking non whites up at greater number then non whites – who use the good herb at the same if not larger numbers – the missing out on a new industry, GST revenue, and other business tax etc etc etc. You would think that the Leader of the Country who needs this little third Party every other three years to form a coalition would give a care and maybe support some of their better ideas, but then the leader of the country could not find a care nor a bother. And that is something the Green Party needs to reflect on. If the Green Party still has the capacity to actually critically reflect on anything , rather then just reflexively affirm everything cause 'green'.

                • Sacha

                  should insist on their policies to be enacted

                  Politics does not work the way you seem to believe it does.

                  • Sabine

                    The Green Party in Germany begs to differ, considering that Germany phased out nuclear power to the point where they now have an energy crisis as Russia is currently holding all the cards whilst the rest of Europe is in the process of folding theirs.

            • Sacha

              Maybe it would be best not to compare the German Green Party to the NZ Green Party.

              Without comparing the other political parties around them.

              • Sabine

                I try not too, but felt compelled in this instance. The Greens are again in coalition with the SPD who is the Social Party of Germany, and the FDP the Free German Party. Red, Green, Yellow.

                The Green Party of Germany however is a different beast to the NZ Green Party. Both in age, and in history. In NZ the Green Party has yet to split on 'fundy' vs ' realo' lines. Fundamentalists/environmental Green vs Environmental/Economical/Identity Green. We might have seen a wee crack on that line with the Shaw brouhaha but so far they are still fairly cohesive.

              • Incognito

                All comparisons are wrong, but some are useful 😉

      • Anne 8.1.3

        "Who gave Labour the majority government to do what they want? Labour voters did."

        If you are referring to people who normally vote Labour the answer is: they were not responsible for the excess vote. National lite voters rewarded the government for the handling of the pandemic and the ChCh massacre.

        It was an unexpected result and the outcome included Gaurav Sharma who would never have succeeded in normal circumstances. Lesson… be careful who you choose even if you don't think they're going to win.

        • weka

          I clearly said people who voted Labour in 2020. But sure, regular Labour voters, or regular left wing voters, could easily have voted Green and didn't. Labour having a majority and being free to do what it wants despite MMP is on those voters as much as anyone else. Strategic voting is not rocket science.

          It's the same with climate action. My conclusion now is that most liberal NZers don't want meaningful action on climate, because they mostly vote for a government that won't give them that. The upcoming local body elections will be a litmus test.

          Just be honest about it.

          • Anne

            I was responding to your comment as linked to @8.,1.3, I wasn't sure what you meant which is why I queried it. And don't accuse me of dishonesty weka.

            What I said was true. Many people who do not normally vote for Labour did so in 2020. The lesson to be learned by Labour is: be careful who you choose to be candidates even if you don't expect them to win.

            Btw, I voted for the Greens in 2020.

          • Barfly


            regular Labour voters, or regular left wing voters, could easily have voted Green and didn't

            I did

            • arkie

              Then that comment isn't about you is it?

              • Anne

                Like me, Barfly – normally a Labour voter – was responding to weka's criticism. There were quite a lot of us and by doing so, we made sure the Greens stayed in parliament. So instead of knocking us, say thank-you otherwise we won't bother again.

                • arkie

                  If you voted Green in 2020 then weka's criticism isn't about you then is it? The hint is in the first line of

                  You require some random commenter on the internet to thank you for voting sensibly? I haven't 'knocked' anyone here, I have merely pointed out that the Labour party has shown us what their priorities are, that you take that as an insult is on you.

            • Robert Guyton

              Well done, Barfly!

              You done right!


        • arkie

          All of us, including those who normally vote Labour, now have a clear demonstration of what the Labour party prioritises when they have no impediments to passing legislation. It’s not about ‘excess vote’ it’s about what the ‘rewarded’ Labour party thinks is worth using their political power to do. If voters want the priorities to be different then they have to vote for a different party, Labour has shown what’s most important to them.

          • gsays

            I agree, a Health Minister repeatedly getting offside with the workforce while trying to reform (rebrand) the system.

            An Energy Minister allowing Marsden Point to close and be decommissioned to appease a fossil fuel company,

            Then there are the 'deserving unemployed' who are due twice the dole as the hoi polloi jobless. Presided over by a PM who freely and happily acknowledges there was a divide created by the reaction to The Virus, while allowing housing unaffordability to continue because ‘thats what homeowners expect’.
            What's not to like?

            • Anne

              …. a Health Minister repeatedly getting offside with the workforce while trying to reform (rebrand) the system.

              Uggh? The other way round imo.

              • gsays


                …. a Health Minister repeatedly getting offside with the workforce while trying to reform (rebrand) the system.

                Uggh? The other way round imo."

                Do you mind expanding a little on that Anne?

                My reckons have it health staff have gone above and beyond the last 8 or so years and in particular the last 33 months, especially front line staff.

          • Anne

            Sounds like you have leapt on a band-wagon with a mish mash of words without identifying what they have done wot they sholdna done… and wot they ain't done what they shoulda done. 🙄

            • arkie

              What do you even mean by that? Why do non-labour supporters constantly have to give them credit for some of their bare-minimum actions? I expect better of a supposed left-wing party and I'm happy to criticise any action i see as insufficient. It's not enough to keep voting for them in the hope that they'll behave differently, this is what they are.

    • Patricia Bremner 8.2

      Ad @ 8 correction "they are taxing Kiwisaver" Should be

      "They are taxing Kiwisaver fees."

      • Ad 8.2.1

        Yeah nah.

        This government does policy like Wellington weather.

        • alwyn

          I know that Wellington has been having a pretty bad run of weather lately but it hasn't been that bad.

          If the weather had been as bad as the Governments actions the whole city would have been flattened and then washed out to sea.

    • Matiri 8.3

      We bank with Kiwibank and we both have Kiwisaver accounts with them.

      I have just checked and we are already charged GST on part of our Kiwisaver fees. A piddly amount really.

      This whole 'taxing my investment!!!!' is just fixing loopholes where some financial institutions charge GST and some don't.

  8. Sacha 9

    Are youse allergic to paragraphs?

  9. This week they are taxing Kiwisaver. No one asked us.

    Link please.

    It is naive to think that any govt is limited only to the items in their manifesto. Governments have to govern according to the circumstances in the world & NZ, for the benefit of all their citizens ie not only those who voted for them, while pushing as much of the policies through that they had flagged in their manifesto and that provided the point of difference between them and other parties.

    If they had this gift of farsightedness that you want them to have, wouldn't that mean they have to put everything they do in a manifesto? If having known about things enough to put them in a manifesto wouldn't they also have taken action to avoid them happening?

    • Ad 10.1

      Unmandated tax causes war and causes governments to fall.

      This is from the same government leader that said she would never, ever tax wealth.

      You were warned.

      • observer 10.1.1

        Enough with the hyperbole. Look at how this happened. Do you think Ardern sat down and chuckled "let's see what else we can pull"?

        Cock-up beats conspiracy most of the time. This was a major cock-up, no doubt about that. But once you start muttering "Secret Agenda" then … plot, lost.

        • Ad

          Both kill governments.

          There has been an apology for nothing.

          Ardern needs a re-set.

          • Bearded Git

            It's a cock up. Parker is a very smart guy who has very poor skills when releasing policies.

            He should have been all over the media explaining that this simply adds GST to Kiwisaver fees which are charged as part of a service and where all other financial fees have GST on them because they are a service.

            Now it has to be rolled back ASAP.

            Luxon was all over it on Morning Report….another new tax …another new tax…we will reverse it and reduce other taxes blah blah blah….not likeable but effective.

            Having said that Griffin’s RadioNZ did Labour no favours on Checkpoint last night yet again. The editor should look up the word balance.

            • Jimmy

              That's a bit of a contradiction….."Parker is a very smart guy who has very poor skills"

              He's one or the other and IMO he has very poor skills and this is a good example of that.

              • observer

                No, there are many people who fit that description. Plenty of academics, for example!

                Don Brash is a very smart guy with a PhD, and was a hopeless politician.

              • Incognito

                You have very poor skills quoting and I doubt you’re very smart. I once knew a very smart guy, but his dancing skills were a health hazard to his dance partner (reminds me of David Seymour on DWTS).

            • Sacha

              Ministers have comms advisors. What on earth were they thinking?

    • weka 10.2

      Link please.

      it's all over the news.

  10. PsyclingLeft.Always 11

    Hosts of far-right conspiracy theory website Counterspin Media are appearing in court today accused of distributing an objectionable publication.

    Kelvyn Alp and Hannah Spierer were arrested by police in Christchurch last week.

    Alp, who managed to enter the court building without wearing a mask, was clapped and cheered as he entered court.

    Dozens of supporters gathered outside the Christchurch Justice Precinct this morning, including white supremacist Philip Arps, former national director of the New Zealand National Front Kyle Chapman and city mayoral candidate Carl Bromley.


    Police seize rifle, ammo from Christchurch pastor Carl Bromley's house in New Year's Eve raid


    I knew of Alp, Arps and fellow white supremacist Kyle Chapman….. but this Carl Bromley nut was new ? And a Mayoral candidate to boot. Far Right scumbags all together. But revealed .

  11. Patricia Bremner 13

    Everyone now knows Parker!! He has walked the tax on Kiwisaver fees back!! @#*&#

    Half baked Idjut!!!!!

    • Bearded Git 13.1

      Good call though.

      Now we can all go back to talking about how Luxon proposes to reduce taxes for rich people, especially landlords.

    • Jimmy 13.2

      I wonder who gets the blame for this fuck up?
      Ardern being questioned on it in Parliament now and not doing too well! Getting very screechy.

      • observer 13.2.1

        Considering he was dealt four aces this morning, Luxon is hardly playing a strong hand.

        And "screechy"? You must have loved John Key's rants then. "You support rapists", "Get some guts" – now that's screechy.

        Update: and Nicola Willis and Chris Bishop can’t even sort out their questions. Incompetent. Can’t blame Mallard any more!

      • Robert Guyton 13.2.2

        "I wonder who gets the blame for this fuck up?"

        Luxon and his corrosive crew, that's who 🙂

        • Jester

          Nothing to do with Luxon. He just exploited the "F…up".

        • Poission

          Parker blames everyone except Parker.

          The media,the opposition,the big banks,the large fund managers,the small fund managers,the IRD and FMA for saying that their models showed it would reduce investments (funds under management) the small people for having the temerity to say the additional costs would subtract their investments (correctly) which have already depreciated.


          • pat

            Any depreciation would be negligible…and that assumes that there is a 'growth' future…which is by no means guaranteed.

            They didnt do the work…GST on fees is a) consistent and b) marginal at worst.


            • Poission

              The depreciation brings the asset growth back and some depreciation not fully priced in due to NZ$ decrease against US$ by 15%.

              Correct a persistent price increase is persistent.

              • pat

                Any depreciation depends upon 'competition'….should that occur.

                • Poission

                  The depreciation is a polite way of saying the decrease in the asset value.Here with Kiwisaver as the froth came off so called investement stocks etc there was a loss in value of 7.5 billion in the 6 months ending June.


                  • pat

                    Which is totally unrelated to fees or tax

                    • Poission

                      Of course not,but it makes people very sensitive to a Minister who wants to increase your loss,with a tax decreasing more value if any that may arise.

                      Or when Robertson try’s to sell the narrative that the new income protection insurance is not a tax,when it is.

                    • pat

                      The two are completely unrelated …other than the word 'tax'.

                      As said they didnt do the work,and left themselves open to the misrepresentation that it was a hit on peoples savings….they were negligent.

                      However, in the great scheme of things it likely matters not…hence their haste in back peddling.

                    • Poission

                      They are very related as the need for a substantive increase in Revenue is needed in 2025,2026, to pay for increased interest on debt that needs to be refinanced.

                  • pat

                    Ultimately ….but the options are far greater than those two (unrelated) fields.

                    As said they appear to not understand tax…somewhat surprising given they are politicians…or perhaps not.

                    The desirability of the NZD is more related to what we have that the world wants/needs ….that is a very limited (and uncertain) list.

  12. Stephen D 14

    It’s good to have Imperator Fish back.

    Sharp as ever.


    9:23 am

    The printer ran out of paper this morning. This is the second time this week. I immediately called Parliamentary Services to demand an independent investigation, only to be told that I should just put some paper in the machine. The woman I spoke to (I will refer to her as “staffer GH”) got very aggressive with me, so I emailed a complaint to her superior. I outlined in my complaint seventy-three instances of incompetence and bullying in GH’s interaction with me. To date I have heard nothing, even though I sent my email over five minutes ago.”

  13. Alan 15

    Fantastic idea yesterday, defended hard this morning, gone this afternoon. Right up there on the u turn scale.

    Can we expect the same when the government and the electorate have "conversations" about other proposed legislation later this year? The precedent is set now.

    • observer 15.1

      Who were the government spokespeople who said "fantastic idea yesterday, defended hard this morning"? Anybody? Not Ardern, Robertson, anyone else?

      A few partisans on blogs did, sure. Nothing new there, a list of Luxon's belated "clarifications" would eat up the internet.

      Lefties are far more willing to criticise the "team" than Nats, who effortlessly slide from telling us Simon's a winner to Todd's a winner to Judith's a winner to … Nicola next?

      • Alan 15.1.1

        Labour introduced it, Labour defended, Labour washed it down the drain.

        Actions speak louder than words

        • observer

          So your answer to my question is "nobody". Again, tell us who was in the media defending this (your claim).

          Have you actually followed the detail of the story at all? No.

          It wasn't some announcement at the podium, some new flagship policy from Ardern. It was a footnote in a document, which Parker failed to see the implications of. The opposition did, and so they scored a win.

          • Ad

            They were found out,

            and got what they deserved for it.

            • pat

              Beg to differ…it was a poorly foreshadowed policy (typical, they seem to have a low opinion of their adversaries) but the actual policy should have been a non event, if they had done the required 'public consultation'…aka explanation.

              For a cohort of 'professional politicians' they really are inept….unfortunately we will likely inherit a Nat led gov as a result.

              Or perhaps its all of no consequence as the looming recession means they are history anyway.

            • Robert Guyton

              They weren't "found out" – they were straight-forward – the opposition sensed a twist and applied it.

              No honour on them – Parker is straight – the eroders are not.

              • pat

                They wernt 'straight forward'…they didnt do the ground work.

                They are confused about tax…not surprising given they are neo-liberals.

          • Belladonna

            Parker was defending it right up 'til it was reversed.

            Revenue Minister David Parker defended the proposal yesterday and this morning, saying it was about consistency in the tax system.


            TBH, I don't really think that he really understands public opinion – let along political framing (he admitted he got blindsided by the opposition to it). He mostly comes across like a policy wonk, who doesn't understand that most of the world doesn't think in numbers.

            I agree that there was swift political action today by those in Labour who do pay attention to public opinion. Shutting down the issue (which was, after all a minor piece of technical legislation – of no great importance in the government's plans) – swiftly – was the best action in the circumstances. Letting it trickle on, would have been an even greater gift to the opposition.

            However, a chunk of reputational damage has already been done.

            It's one of those 'death by a thousand cuts' things – each individual issue isn't significant, but each eats away at the government's support. Labour really can't afford to continue to have political u-turns because their ministers aren't managing the message.

            • Robert Guyton

              Because Parker is correct.

              • Being 'right' is cold comfort when you lose an election.

                • Robert Guyton

                  Being right is never cold comfort. The election is not lost: it has not been held yet – are you clairvoyant? More to the point, have any of your predictions proved accurate? (Link please 🙂

                  • Just as clairvoyant as you are.
                    Given that we have national elections every 3 years, it requires little precognitive ability to predict that someone will lose.

                    • Robert Guyton

                      I haven't made a prediction. I'm keeping to the known facts (as I see them).

                      Your claim that "someone will lose" is an earth-shattering observation; have you considered political commentary as a profession?

                  • Do keep up, Robert.

                    I haven't made a prediction. That would require me stating which party would lose.

                    You seem to be assuming that it will be Labour.

            • Robert Guyton

              Brilliant play – voters being fed: "Labour doesn't listen!!!!"

              Labour – let’s float this – voters/Opposition flares up!!

              Labour – we listened, we responded in the way you demanded.

              Labour up – Opposition, down.


            • Robert Guyton

              Parker told the truth. I know it's difficult for you to accept … 🙂

  14. higherstandard 16

    The most useless parliament in many decades, nothing more concerning for NZ than a rubbish government and opposition at the same time.

    • Patricia Bremner 16.2

      higherstandard Keep telling yourself you are right. You might be right twice a day!!

    • Mac1 16.3

      You omitted 'crisis', 'tsunami' and 'shambles' in your reckon.

      Also a fact or two. 😉

      • Drowsy M. Kram 16.3.1

        'Crisis' gets used fairly frequently by opposition parties of whatever flavour.
        'Shambles' was the go-to destructive NAct critique deployed during the on-going pandemic; I will be forever thankful they weren't in a position to deploy Plan B ASAP.

        COVID deaths per million popn

        • Ad

          Makes you wonder how Ardern can dump on NZs biggest-ever MMP majority and flush it down the crapper in under 12 months, with NZ back where we were in Feb 2020.

          Ardern is impressively shit.

          • Robert Guyton

            Does she call all the shots, Ad?

            Surely your Golden Boy, Robertson, has some influence??

            After all, he's no.2


          • Drowsy M. Kram

            Yes yes Ad, everyone knows you (and others) think Ardern is shit (and now "impressively shit"), and are happy to use Hooton’s shrewd political judgement in support of your cause, whereas I think this particular evaluation of yours is dim-witted and insulting.

            If you want our 6th Labour Govt to go 3 terms, then imho your continuing anti-Ardern crusade is an exemplar of "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face."

            If NAct sweep to power in 2023, then their party-sponsored keptocracy will be back with a vengeance, and the hollow men and women will gut and gorge, leaving huge quantities of unmet need in their wake – it's in their DNA.

            • Incognito

              As an analogy, if you want to strengthen the immune system and evoke a strong response when needed, then you need to keep throwing shit at it all the time.

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                If I'm grokking your analogy, then are Ad's distasteful anti-Ardern jibes training Labour's immune system, or evidence of lupus? And can one more turd be a useful addition to the daily mountain of shit thrown Ardern's way?

                Made a private commitment that I would Party vote National if one of their leaders publicly repudiated the political obscenity that was (and is) Dirty Politics – I doubt that the Green Party will be loosing my vote anytime soon.

                Politics is cutthroat, not kind, but give a little logic and fairness its due too.

              • PsyclingLeft.Always

                Yeah right. Sadly Labour has a history of infighting…and biting their own. And Ad has been criticising Jacinda here for quite a while. I, like many others, wonder at his motives? IMO throwing shit at her..is not productive..in any way.

        • Mac1

          Drowsy M. Kram. thanks for the reply and the PlanB reference. I note that PlanB has had no further input from its "expert and passionate (sigh)" people since December 2021.

          Maybe they had a Damascus experience when some facts like yours gave them "a sign".

          Bit like National. How many times did we hear "the government needs to…"? They had several plans, all in opposition to the government. "Too soon….too late….. never……"

          • Drowsy M. Kram

            Thanks Mac1. Yes, Plan B has gone off the boil now that the borders are open and 'freedum' has returned to our "mysterious socialist hermit kingdom."

            Hope Kiwis don't forget the pandemic lessons learned (so far) too quickly.

            Lots of (too many!) links:

            8 Lessons We Can Learn From the COVID-19 Pandemic
            [14 May 2021]
            Humanity's memory is short, and what is not ever-present fades quickly,” says Manisha Juthani, MD, a Yale Medicine infectious diseases specialist. The bubonic plague, for example, ravaged Europe in the Middle Ages—resurfacing again and again—but once it was under control, people started to forget about it, she says. “So, I would say one major lesson from a public health or infectious disease perspective is that it’s important to remember and recognize our history. This is a period we must remember.

            9 Things Everyone Should Know About the Coronavirus Outbreak
            Experts are paying close attention to the latest Omicron strains.
            [11 August 2022]
            1. COVID-19: By the numbers
            2. The virus can spread in multiple ways.
            3. The virus continues to change.
            4. Long COVID is still not well understood.
            5. Vaccines are key to preventing severe illness and hospitalization.
            6. There are steps you can take to prevent infection.
            7. Experts continue to work on COVID-19 treatments.
            8. If you feel ill, here's what you should do.
            9. Be aware of the information and resources that are available to you.

            The COVID-19 Pandemic: Things We’ve Learned to Prepare for the Future [16 August 2022]

            Lessons learned
            Epidemiologists share lessons they’ve learned from the coronavirus pandemic. [17 August 2022]

            Trust in science. Please, I beg you, trust in science, and do not under any circumstances discount what people who have spent their entire lives learning how to fight these diseases have to say. This is not political, diseases never will be, so please have a grain of common sense and decency; protect yourself, and by extension those around you.” — William Roberts, Powder Springs, Ga.

            People you love are going to suffer mental illness under these awful circumstances. They will let you down in spectacular ways, but you have to forgive them or you lose twice.” — Lenna Pierce, Brooklyn, N.Y.

            I wouldn’t have tried as hard to convince friends and family to comply with public health measures. They were never going to listen to anything I had to say; all I accomplished was losing relationships.” — Jess, Pittsburgh, Pa.

            Listen to public health officials. Elevate them and do not make a pandemic a political issue. A pandemic is an apolitical animal. Be humble and submit to public health measures. Do not be a vector. Isolate and enjoy your solitude.” — Usha Srinivasan, Bel Air, Md.

    • Incognito 16.4

      Your standards are way too high.

      • higherstandard 16.4.1

        Maybe, but I'd take any of the previous governments of the last 20 years over the current lot in a heartbeat.

        It might of course be something to do with my age, one's tolerance for idiot politicians declines the older you get I suspect.

  15. Blazer 17

    Just heard Heather Depressing' Allen rant about the Govt….they do not even bother to even try and appear impartial on ZB these days.

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