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Open mike 31/03/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, March 31st, 2014 - 173 comments
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173 comments on “Open mike 31/03/2014 ”

  1. i wonder what is in the nsa/spook-dirt-file on john key..?

    ..do the americans ‘own’ him..?

    ..is he their ‘bitch’..?..

    (used in it’s non-gender-specific-meaning..denoting servility/obedience..being ‘owned’..)

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/29/nsa-merkel-leaders-surveillance-documents-snowden

    ..that’d be an interesting read..eh..?

    • Stephanie Rodgers 1.1

      Underling, plaything, pawn, tool, servant, lackey, puppet, stooge, dupe, patsy, hireling, minion, groupie, yes-man, toady.

      Really, phillip, it’s not that difficult.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1

        +1

      • phillip ure 1.1.2

        are you accusing me of linguistic-laziness..?

        ..or are you objecting to that non-gender-specific/street- use of that ‘b’-word..?

        ..a use that gives it a different meaning to the gender-specific-use..

        ..or both..?

        • Stephanie Rodgers 1.1.2.1

          It seems a bit silly to claim there’s a widely-accepted, gender-neutral meaning of ‘bitch’ when you have to point out, twice, that you don’t mean it as a gendered slur.

          Edited to add: and of course, the not-specifically-female meaning of ‘bitch’ is typically homophobic. And it’s so easy to just not use it, as I demonstrated! Why make it difficult for yourself?

          • phillip ure 1.1.2.1.1

            i don’t see/use it as ‘homophobic’..

            ..that reading is about power of one individual over another..

            ..being ‘owned’..

            ..that’s it..no further nuances..

            ..the gender/orientation are of no matter…

            ..hence key being ‘owned’ by the american-spooks/govt..

            ..’cos of dirt they have on him..

            (nothing gender-specific/homophobic in that use..eh..?..)

            ..and maybe why i have to qualify that ‘reading’ of the word..

            ..is a discussion better suited to a word-police-forum..

            ..maybe titled:..?

            ..’black and white strictures we should maybe rethink’..

          • weka 1.1.2.1.2

            Completely agree with your point Stephanie, and good luck with having a rational conversation with phil about it.

          • Tracey 1.1.2.1.3

            chuckle

    • Mainlander 1.2

      Tell us more about this “nsa/spook-dirt-file on john key” or are you just making shit up again Phillip

      • phillip ure 1.2.1

        plse give me one example of me ‘making shit up’..?

        ..i come with footnotes built in..

        ..and in this case they are in the link in the original comment at the top of the thread..

        ..and can i just pause to call you a fucken moron..?..

        ..one furthering that profile of sth islanders as inbred hicks..?

        ..yee-haw..!..eh..?..

        ..’we don’t see too many coloured folks down around these parts..do we leroy..?’

        • Mainlander 1.2.1.1

          So your further your statement “i wonder what is in the nsa/spook-dirt-file on john key” is to imply South Islanders are inbred racists that seem to all have migrated from Alabama and you call me a fkn moron go on Phillip make some more shit up or lay off the grog before midday.
          FYI Not in the South Island either so more of your made up crap

          • phillip ure 1.2.1.1.1

            i repeat..

            ..give me one example of where i have ‘made shit up’…

            ..’cos..y’ see..i comment under my own name…

            ..so this matters..

            ..the evidence plse..

            ..or fucken withdraw and apologise..

            ..and act like a fucken inbred hick..

            ..and i’ll call you an inbred hick..

            ..did you work out how to click on the link..?

            ..apology pending..is it..?

            ..and if you want to swathe yrslf in that ‘mainland’-bullshit..

            ..expect nothing less..

            ..and as a matter of fact..

            ..christchrch is the city for white-trash racists..isn’t it..?

            ..also the city with the highest number of junkies in nz..too…

            ..(low-rent speed/sleeping pill junkies too..most of them..

            ..i blame the flatness..)

            ..and..you don’t see many ‘coloured folks’ down around those parts..do you..mainlander..?

            ..i am told they aren’t made to feel that welcome..

            ..y’know..shouted racist insults from groups of those white-trash racists..

            ..’cruising the square’..eh..?

            ..i blame the flatness..

            • Mainlander 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Yes i figured out how to click the link and it was as vague as any one of your posts although considerably more interesting to read, now run along back to your bottle so you can make up more shit followed of course by another racist bigoted rant
              …i blame the delerium…

  2. karol 3

    Auckland Action Against Poverty – action outside the Young Nats Ball in Auckland next Saturday evening:

    John Key & Paula Bennett are preparing to have a ball with their Young Nats. We’re hosting an alternative party for those left out in the cold by Nationals war on the poor.

    AAAP are hosting a ‘Block Party’ outside the ball.

    Live performances by: STREET CHANT + TOTEMS

    We’ll be dishing up free soup & bread too.

    Beneficiaries, low paid workers and young New Zealanders see little reason to celebrate after 6 years under National.

    Let’s remind the Nats their champagne celebrations will not go unchallenged while so many of us are pushed further into poverty as a result of their policies.

    6.30pm Saturday 5th April outside Rendezvous Hotel, 71 Mayoral Drive, Auckland.

    Shout out to cheeseontoast.co.nz for helping us advertise.

    Gotta hand it to AAAP – they do well targeted and creative bits of action.

  3. Chooky 4

    David Cunliffe good on Morning Report…however imo he needs to be MUCH more AGGRESSIVE and dis the polls…they are always putting him in a defensive position which is spurious

    1.) they are not an accurate reflection of what will happen on Election Day…even up to a day or so before the Elections… as Jim Bolger found when he lost despite positive polling for his win…and as Winston Peters has found in the past when he hasn’t even registered in the polls yet come in for a win

    2.) they distort elections and electioneering…it is pathetic how they make politicians SLAVES to statistics and polling….statistics which are in the hands of the pollsters….and who knows what THEIR bias and intent is?…Polls ad Statistics are NOT the TRUTH….lets face it statistics can be skewed to suit the intent and design survey of the Pollster /statistician….and Polling is a business and can be skewed by business interests

    It is time New Zealanders are no longer held captive by the Pollsters bullshit…”Bugger the Pollsters!” and “Bugger the Polls!”….this should be the mantra of the Labour Party

    • chooky..

      ..how about:..’just ignore the elephant..!..just ignore the elephant..!..’

      ..and hooten said only one thing that rang true in his total dominance of q & a on sun..

      ..(didn’t he ‘own’ that show..?..as in being a rude-prick and talking-over/dominating the conversation..?..just braying on and bloody on..the show compere watching..gape-mouthed..)

      ..when he noted that the labour party vote cd well collapse..much like national suffered under english..

      ..and of course the rise of harawira/mana/internet party could well hasten that collapse..

      ..and the main problem with labour..in my opinion..is that..like in a piece i linked to a couple of days ago..detailing the similar woes labour is facing in britain..

      ..is that they may well have good/progressive policies..

      ..but that they are doing a woeful job selling them..

      ..they are totally failing in the task of presenting themselves as an appealing choice..

      ..and of course..the pressures on labour here are/will be even stronger than in britain..

      ..as thanks to mmp..we have a suite of minor parties to turn to..

      ..positively bristling with new/fresh ideas…change..

      ..labour seem to have chosen/taken the path of ‘we’re not quite as bad as national’..

      ..but yes..!..of course we will off-shore/deep-sea drill..!

      ..of course we will continue to frack..!

      ..and no..we will not be closing down the spooks…!

      ..we must stay part of ‘the five eyes network’..!..(we get ‘reports!..didn’tyaknow..!..we are with ‘the big boys’..!..)

      ..and yes..of course..!..with a few adjustments/tweaks..of course we will sign the t.p.p..!

      ..and ending pot-prohibition..?..no way..!..

      ..what’s that you say…?..the greens..?

      ..didn’t you see/hear russel norman on the weekend..?

      ..he won’t bother us..

      ..he is compromise-on-steroids..

      ..like us..it’s become difficult to see what he actually stands for..

      ..did you notice that..?..’

      (and/but..seriously..!..labour haven’t got much time left to get their shit together..

      ..eh..?..

      ..and no..i don’t mean rolling cunnliffe..

      ..i mean presenting a viable/believable vision of change from the status quo..

      ..’cos up until now..

      ..the retention of that broken status-quo is all they seem to have on offer..

      • phillip ure 4.1.1

        auto-moderation..?

        • Lanthanide 4.1.1.1

          Too many ellipses is my bet. Spam engine had to work hard to comprehend what you were trying to say.

          Personally I didn’t bother.

          • phillip ure 4.1.1.1.1

            so..why do you feel the need to tell me..?

            ..lashing out..

            ..due to intellectual-incompetence on yr part..?

            ..engendering a feeling of powerlessness..?

            ..perchance..?

            ..that’s all ya got..?

            • Lanthanide 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Hoping you’ll take constructive criticism and improve your posting style so that people will bother to read your posts. I know I’m not the only one.

              Your choice to do what you want of, of course.

          • Tracey 4.1.1.1.2

            lolol

            a few of the regulars are giving me some good chuckles this monday morning. thank you all.

            • phillip ure 4.1.1.1.2.1

              that’s all ya got..?..there..tracey..?

              ..riding others’ ad-homs..

              ..and you’d be a sucker for tried and true material..

              ..wouldn’t you..?

          • Bearded Git 4.1.1.1.3

            Me neither-too long Mr. Ure

      • Chooky 4.1.2

        @philip ure …not really the “elephant in the room”

        …the fact that Hooton possum is obsessed with polls and talks of nothing else makes me suspicious …makes me think that the polls are stewed and skewed…. a little right wing pottage… served up to convince the unwitting public that Cunliffe is not up to the job and knee cap him before he even gets into his stride

        ….polls used as a right wing PR exercise to undermine a Labour Party and a New Leader who could really make difference for New Zealand! …..in coalition with the Greens and NZF and Mana and maybe Dotcom

        the Polls and Pollsters should be ignored …they serve as a toxic right wing PR detraction from the real issues of the Labour Party and winning this election!…they are a waste of everyone’s time

        • Clemgeopin 4.1.2.1

          Interesting that you should say that. Very topical, going by yet another badly worded ‘news’ segment by the TV3 resident Joseph Goebbels, Patrick Gower, today on 6 pm news, designed to hurt Labour and Cunliffe some more:

          Watch it here and see what I mean:
          http://www.3news.co.nz/Cunliffes-poll-numbers-slide-after-trust-issue/tabid/1607/articleID/338161/Default.aspx

          I wrote a message below their news item as follows:

          ‘What is wrong with you, Gower? Why sensationalise relatively minor errors and be so biased against Cunliffe and Labour designed to harm them further? Why not report facts without hype, exaggeration and unfairness? That Cunliffe’s trust was for his Labour party leadership election and involved just about $8,000 and $9,000 of ‘secret’ donations that were returned because the donors preferred to remain private. Not really a very big deal, compared to millions of donations by wealthy rich dudes to National and ACT involving secret/blind trusts etc. Be balanced and fair in your reporting, man. Shame on you and shame on TV3 ‘news’. Report news, don’t ‘create’ news as that is manipulation, unjust and a disservice to freedom and democracy.’

          • Chooky 4.1.2.1.1

            +100 Clemgeopin…good on you! ….i rarely watch tv news …but that is real bias

    • Tigger 4.2

      He also needs to sort out his position on TPPA.

      And by that I mean Labour need to sort themselves out and come out swinging against it.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1

        We can only wish for that. Unfortunately, Labour still believe in the delusional free-market that they bagged us with in the 1980s.

      • Tracey 4.2.2

        nothing til i have seen it is a cop out position. give us your position, david, on what you have seen leaked so far. .. and what it would take for you to be pro or anti.

        a bob each ways is bs

    • Rosie 4.3

      Onya Chooky.

      I often wonder how election results would pan out if there weren’t any polls. Would a lack of polling require folks to think for themselves and not be swayed by the numbers that are being whispered in their ears? Or do polls have little influence on results?

      Example: Was chatting with my anti Dunne (we’re in Ohariu) anti National Coalition Govt Dr who had become dismayed and expressed words to this effect: “the polls aren’t looking good for Labour, it looks like they may lose”. Unacceptable assumption! We then discussed how to go about winning and he looked a lot brighter by the end of the conversation.

      And what about the thousands of people that turned out all over the country during the weekend for the TPP protests and NZEI protests? Are they happy with the direction Key and his Govt have gone in the last almost 6 years? Are they happy with Key as leader? No and No. Poll those folks and you’d get a completely different result.

      • phillip ure 4.3.1

        i went to the auckland one..

        ..there weren’t really that many people there..

        ..(and cunnliffe was roundly booed for his gravity-defying spinal-gyrations around the vexed subject he and norman seem to have signed up for..the tpp..)

        ..so..really..by any measure..

        ..that is a very tenuous anti-polling/pro-labour sheet-anchor for you/anyone to hang onto..

        ..eh..?

        • Draco T Bastard 4.3.1.1

          The TPPA is a hard one to measure as, I believe, that most people truly don’t understand it and so stay home when they would be out protesting if they knew better.

          • Penny Bright 4.3.1.1.1

            Where was all the mainstream media telling folks about the upcoming TPPA protest rallies BEFORE Saturday 29 March 2014?

            Penny Bright

            • Chooky 4.3.1.1.1.1

              +100 Penny Bright…good point …maybe too difficult for the msm to get their heads around or they are scared of offending the John Key NACT govt!….either way pretty pathetic journalism

              …nevertheless there was a good crowd in earthquake ravaged Christchurch and some great speakers !…so people know about it and are concerned !

        • Rosie 4.3.1.2

          “..that is a very tenuous anti-polling/pro-labour sheet-anchor for you/anyone to hang onto..”

          phillip. I am talking polls in general, election after election and not just at the moment because it doesn’t suit my political inclinations to see the Left in a place I’m not joyous about. (and in saying that, I’m not freaked about the polls that have been held in recent months).

          What purpose do polls serve? To assist spin and to fulfil the curiosity of voters? Or are polls less insidious and more useful than that? I am questioning the faith we put in them.

          I get that Cunliffe needs to be very clear about Labour’s views around the TPPA but would you write him off over it?

          • phillip ure 4.3.1.2.1

            @ rosie..

            ..of course polls can be wrong on the/any given day..

            ..but there is a science around tracking the trends..

            ..and as a barometer of how something is going..

            ..we have little else..

            ..so..are you saying that all you are hearing out there is words of praise for cunnliffe/labour..?

            ..and how well they are doing/going..?

            ..and that..ipso facto..the polls are all wrong..?

            ..i see the polls as just confirming that too many people are not seeing labour as an/the answer..

            ..which of course is bad news for labour..

            ..but good news for the minor parties on the progressive side of the ledger..

            ..and re yr final question:..i think trotter on nat-rad just clarified cunnliffes’ major problem..

            ..namely that he is more left than the rightwing/neo-lib hangovers from the clark era..the tpp-freaks/fanatics like goff etc..

            ..and that he cannot come out and say what needs to be said..

            …because they are behind him..going:

            ..’we don’t agree with that..that’s not official labour policy’..

            ..whereas cunnliffe should be coming out and promising to rip up any tpp..

            ..and which all brings me back to a question posed the other day..that maybe labours’ vote has to collapse this time..

            ..for there to be a wholesale clear-out of that rightwing cabal of labour mp’s..

            ..before labour can rejuvenate as a true progressive party..

            ..but whatever the case..

            ..don’t blame cunnliffe..

            ..blame those rightwing bastards..

            • Rosie 4.3.1.2.1.1

              “so..are you saying that all you are hearing out there is words of praise for cunnliffe/labour..?

              ..and how well they are doing/going..?”

              No I’m not saying that. What I am hearing, in a casual way that can’t be measured, from folks I am speaking with about this years’ election is that they will be voting Labour because they want to get rid of Key – these are the people who don’t usually vote or pay any attention to what happens in our society. It’s an anti govt vote – they hate Key and what he has done, that is about as much as they know.

              They don’t know about Goff’s work around free trade deals of the past, and less about the TPP.

              Those I know who are politically engaged tend to be Green voters and I can count one Mana voter among that lot.

              As for your suggestion that we need a “wholesale clear out of that rightwing cabal of Labour MP’s, before Labour can rejuvenate as a true progressive party”, I don’t disagree with you, and it is these aspects of the Party that prevents me from being a member or volunteering my time during this years’ campaign.

              We don’t have that happening. However, is not the most pressing and immediate priority to expel this putrid pussy zit of a govt, off the face of our suffering country?

              Which brings me back to those ordinary non engaged voters I mentioned first up. First things first, expel the govt – then rejuvenate.

              • @ rosie..

                “..However, is not the most pressing and immediate priority to expel this putrid pussy zit of a govt, off the face of our suffering country..”

                ..plus 1..

      • Draco T Bastard 4.3.2

        Or do polls have little influence on results?

        They have an influence. IIRC, about a third of the people who didn’t vote last election didn’t do so because of what the polls were saying. They believed that National was getting in no matter what and yet if they had voted we’d have a Labour led government now.

        • Rosie 4.3.2.1

          Thank you DTB – your example is a perfect illustration of the power of polls.

          I hope that everyone here who wants a Labour Green coalition/remove this corrupt govt is speaking with those they know that didn’t vote last time and letting them know that their vote is important and really encouraging them to see the value in voting.

          • phillip ure 4.3.2.1.1

            @ rosie/draco..

            ..i agree with the analysis from draco..

            ..and i do think there is a case for closing off polls..say..4 wks before election day..?

            ..i think there is a very strong case to be made for that..

            • Draco T Bastard 4.3.2.1.1.1

              I think there’s an even stronger case for dropping polls altogether. They do influence people and getting people to actually read the policies would be much better. Of course, the latter is far more expensive than polls and so the MSM won’t do it.

              • MaxFletcher

                In an MMP system polls are important for strategic voting

                • Lanthanide

                  Why should we encourage strategic voting?

                  • MaxFletcher

                    It’s a reality of our electoral system and can benefit the left as well as the right.

                    • Lanthanide

                      So because it’s possible in our electoral system, we must actively support it? That’s what you’re saying.

                      If you didn’t notice, the MMP referendum and subsequent public submissions were very clearly on the side of reducing the various tactical opportunities available.

                      Tactical voting, by it’s very definition, implies that certain people in certain areas of the country have a greater impact on the outcome of the election that all other people in the country. That’s not fair nor democratic. Why should twats in Epsom lumber us with an idiotic government that sells state assets at a massive loss? That’s exactly what happened in 2011 (if National had won either Epsom or Ohariu, but not both, they wouldn’t have had enough MPs in support of asset sales).

                    • geoff

                      +1 Lanth

                    • it is a political-fact/reality..lanth..

                      ..and if the right are using it..as they have..

                      ..with a high degree of success..

                      ..for the progressives to go..no..!..no..!..we won’t do that..!

                      ..is madness..guaranteeing ongoing defeats..

                    • MaxFletcher

                      I tactical vote where I can to try get a result for the left. If you don’t want to or like it then don’t.

                      shrug

                    • bad12

                      What a great head in the sand attitude, if Labour and the Green Party identify all their party voters in the Epsom electorate some 7-8000 of them and convince those voters to hold their noses and strategically vote for the National candidate in Epsom it will only take a quarter of them to do so and ACT will be out of the Parliament,

                      We shouldn’t do this because it offends your sensibilities???my sensibilities are far more offended that every week the wage gap between the haves and the have nots widens and with every widening of that wage gap another kid or two misses out,

                      Not just misses out for the time National is in office but because of the damage done misses out for a life-time,

                      Every electoral system can be gamed to a certain extent, FPP was gamed by having the boundaries set by an unelected body, the MMP system tho gives us full transparency to see who is gaming what, thus allowing us to devise strategy which in effect would nullify such ‘gaming’,

                      Because some on the left have their sensibilities a little offended at the thought of doing this is laughable,

                      It is obvious by the extent of the National Party vote that the wider electorate does not rate this ‘gaming’ in electorates like Epsom as a highly negative factor in their voting choices,and while submissions to electoral commissions might highlight the practice as odorous it is the voter who is the final arbiter of such practices,

                      There is at present only one means of ensuring that the voters of Epsom do not have a greater say in who forms Government than the rest of us and that is to convince those who would vote left in that electorate to use their votes to nullify such electoral gerrymandering by the parties on the right…

                    • Lanthanide

                      My point, actually, is that tactical voting is undesirable in any electoral system.

                      Electoral systems should be as fair and even-handed as possible. There will likely always be particular circumstances where some people’s votes have more impact than others.

                      But the proposal was to stop publishing polling. The reason given for why we should continue polling, is that it allows for tactical voting – something that we should not be encouraging. Whether we should actively discourage it or not is another question, although as noted, the public have already opined that they’d prefer to see less tactical voting than we have now (by removing the coat-tales incentive: for example National would be much less likely to gift The Conservatives an electorate seat if there’s 0 chance of them bringing in more than 1 MP).

                    • bad12

                      What Lanth is ‘unfair’ about the present system??? we all get two votes and it is how people use those two votes that is all important,

                      The MMP referendum gave us the exact same system that we have now, so how you use this as an example of this particular referendum citing a demand of change is beyond me,

                      The voter’s Lanth showed what they think of ‘tactical voting’ and ‘giving nods’ in the 2011 election, i see no evidence that Nationals vote was hurt in any way by such use, so, unless you propose a referendum of the question about polls/tactical voting i fail to see how submissions to the electoral commission obviously from a partisan sector of politics should carry any weight at all,

                      Was it not for ‘tactical’ voting and activism during and leading up to that 2011 election NZFirst may not have regained a position in the Parliament leaving National in a position of governing alone, the fact that nothing has been said about this aspect of tactical voting does not mean that it did not occur and occur via a reasonably substantial number of voters,)probably up to 1%),

                      Your citing of the Conservatives has no basis of fact, for fact you only have to look at the Epsom electorate where National happily gave Banks the nod, and, i should imagine it is not the fact that the Conservatives might only bring National one extra seat should they gift that party an electorate that has them loath at this point to make such a gift, had not Craig over the Christmas period given a good display of the ‘Loonies having taken over the asylum’ i am pretty sure it would still be on the cards for National to be gifting that party a seat,

                      MMP is all about coalitions, in that i believe National are slightly ahead of Labour in their thinking, National seem to have taken on board the fact that there is NO loss in giving up an electorate seat to a likely partner in order to keep a supply of coalition partners at least appearing if not growing…

                    • @ bad..

                      “..if Labour and the Green Party identify all their party voters in the Epsom electorate some 7-8000 of them and convince those voters to hold their noses and strategically vote for the National candidate in Epsom it will only take a quarter of them to do so and ACT will be out of the Parliament,

                      We shouldn’t do this because it offends your sensibilities???..”

                      plus 1..

                    • it puzzles me how/why both labour and greens cannot trust their supporters in those seats to have the intelligence/brains..

                      ..to vote tactically to unseat act/dunne..

                      ..it wd be so easy..

                      ..suggested-script:..

                      look..we all know that we all don’t like tail-gating..

                      ..and the commission advised scrapping it..

                      ..but key/national ignored that imperative..

                      ..and they are using this tactic to some success..repeatedly..

                      ..and so we are forced to fight fire with fire..

                      ..and tho’ we promise to fix this when we get into office..

                      ..for now we are going to have to ask you to take one for the party..

                      ..and to vote-smart to ensure act/dunne are swept into the dustbin of history..

                      ..so..please..labour/green voter..please give us your party vote..

                      ..but with your candidate vote..vote-smart..

                      ..and candidate vote for national..

                      ..and be aware..your vote-smart here will be one of the most important votes in this election..

                      …and maybe in yr/our lives..

                      ..and strange tho’ it may seem..

                      ..you voting for the national party candidate with your party vote..

                      ..is the best you can do for the labour/green party..

                      ..remember..!

                      ..vote-smart..!..get rid of act/dunne..!

                      ..(now..how can they not sell that to their supporters in those elctorates..?

                      ..f.f.s..!..)

                      ..get rid of act..get rid of dunne..

                      ..just by voting-smart..

                    • Clemgeopin

                      @ Philip, add….

                      ..Under the the present circumstances.,
                      ..if the left does not vote smartly..
                      ..then the nasty Nats will end up getting 6 MPs for their coalition..
                      ..through 3 of Whyte, Dunne and Craig..
                      ..PLUS their own 3 National party list candidates=6!..

                      ..3+3=6!..

                      ..If we gazump them by voting strategically..
                      .. for the National CANDIDATE for the ELECTORATE vote..
                      .. National will only get their own 3 candidates,..
                      ..while the 3 political parasites of ACT, UF and Conservatives parties.. ..will be gone burgers which is sweet as!..

                      ..3+0=3!..

                      ..Labour will end up getting 3 candidates..
                      ..through higher up on the party list vote..

                      ..0+3=3!..

                      ..Right 3= Left 3!..

                      ..6=3? Nah!!..

                • Tracey

                  so you accept polls are a tool for manipulation of the electorate?

                  and do you think this is something to be encouraged?

                  • Clemgeopin

                    Yes!…in the present circumstances, because, otherwise, the nasty Nats will get 6 candidates for their coalition through 3 of Whyte, Dunne and Craig PLUS their own 3 National party list candidates=6! 3+3=6!

                    If we gazump them by voting strategically for National CANDIDATE for the ELECTORATE vote, National will only get their own 3 candidates, while the 3 political parasites of ACT, UF and Conservatives parties will be gone burgers which is sweet as: 3+0=3!

                    Labour will end up getting 3 candidates through the party list vote. 0+3=3!

                    Right 3= Left 3!

                    6=3? Nopes! Got it?

        • s y d 4.3.2.2

          well, we’d have Phil Goff…….

      • Tracey 4.3.3

        te polls are lazy journalism. its all very well for partys to privately poll…

        if parliament wont pass a law outlawing them for a few weeks prior to an election….

      • Chooky 4.3.4

        @ Rosie …agreed…i think the polls are bunkum…and people are quietly deciding they will vote against John Key and this Nact government.

        Time for A Change !…as they say

        • Anne 4.3.4.1

          I suspect the following is what might be happening:

          Key’s early announcement of an early election has jolted people out of their political apathy and for the first time in three years they are thinking seriously about politics. Its early enough for some of them to be casting around and thinking they might vote for another party other than Labour this time:

          How about Winston Peters eh? He’s all for keeping the super at 65 and we’re not that far away from 65. We’ve always voted Labour but they reckon they’re gonna raise it to 67. That stinks.

          • Chooky 4.3.4.1.1

            @ Anne…yes that retirement age is a loser for Labour and they cant afford it

    • Jimmie 4.4

      So if Labour ignore the polls and still lose what then?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.4.1

        Who’s ignoring the polls, no mates National who can’t govern alone? 😆

      • Chooky 4.4.2

        @ Jimmie

        Labour is NOT going to lose!…..but they sooner they ignore the polls the better ….too much time is wasted on them

        ….Cunliffe should just say “BaH.. Polls Bullshit!…..We are going to discuss the REAL issues facing the electorate!…the REAL issues facing New Zealanders…the REAL issues facing the voters”

        ….and btw …the msm should be doing the same ….way too much importance is given to polls and pollsters …they should be put in their place! …they are not the Truth!…they are not the Final Outcome!…they are used as a MARKETING PLOY to undermine and put down good people like David Cunliffe

        ….i wouldnt mind betting the polls are rigged and the pollsters bought off

        • Jimmie 4.4.2.1

          I love the statement of faith about not losing – good to see there are still a few red believers out there.

          Cunliffe should discuss real issues facing Kiwis – however real issues don’t include giving subsidies to forest owners, giving baby handouts to folks on $150K, centralizing power retailing, and buying back minority shareholding in power companies and an airline.

          There are a few topics that aren’t worth pushing this year and they include:

          The state of the economy – its doing fine.
          The state of manufacturing in NZ – its doing fine
          The state of primary industries – they’re doing fine
          The state of the provinces – they’re booming.
          Unemployment – its going down
          Crime – its going down
          Grizzles about Free Trade Agreements – China proves this wrong big time

          The Nats have got the biggies sown up so Labour are left with some crumbs to play with:

          Interest rates slowly rising
          Housing affordability in bigger cities
          RMA reform (Snatch this out of JK’s hands)
          Auckland City Council Reform (Use Len Brown against JK to beat him with and promise reform of the legislation to allow more control over the Mayor’s office)
          Abuse of user pays affecting lower income folk and pensioners (Council fees/rates etc.)

          Its gona be a hard road for the left this year but if Cunliffe wants to win then he needs to get stuck in a lot more than what he has

          • Penny Bright 4.4.2.1.1

            How about some POLICIES on fighting ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’?

            Penny Bright

            • Naki Man 4.4.2.1.1.1

              ‘corporate welfare’
              You mean like Cunny wanting to give subsidies to his rich mates the forest owners.

            • Chooky 4.4.2.1.1.2

              @ Penny Bright..now you are talking….that gets to the crux of the matter and the core of Nact

  4. the final panel-segment of the nation is worth watching online..

    ..for the resolute/logic-based case sue bradford made for the universal basic income..u.b.i..

    ..very tidy..it was…

    ..and should be required-viewing..

    • Tigger 5.1

      Sue gets bashed a lot but she was one of the more successful MPs of the past 30 years. Small party, never in govt but managed to push major reform. I always listen to what she has to say.

      • weka 5.1.1

        What? the GP achieved some of its aims?!

        (that’s for phil’s benefit, because he thinks they’re useless at politics).

        • Ergo Robertina 5.1.1.1

          Why did Sue Bradford leave the Green Party? On Sunday, on the The Nation, she described it as having become surprisingly willing to compromise, and fighting with other parties for the centre vote.
          It’s fine if you agree with the party’s move to the centre – but evidently not everyone sees it the same way.

          • phillip ure 5.1.1.1.1

            @ergo..

            ..my reading of that exit-reason is that yes..sue bradford was dismayed by the drift to the right..

            ..and that would have underpinned her decision to go..

            ..but the leadership-question was the main reason..

            ..’cos’..y’see..!..when norman was battling tanczos for the leadership role..

            ..tanczos was the obvious front-runner..(high profile..sitting mp..)

            ..whereas norman was the outsider..just an ak policy-wonk..

            ..but my understanding is that norman went to bradford..

            ..and promised her..that if she threw her formidable organising/networking-skills behind him defeating tanczos..

            ..that when fitzsimon left..he would support her for the role as female co-leader..

            ..bradford then threw herself into that role..and with delahunty as wing-person..and locke backing norman..

            ..they totally ambushed tanczos..

            ..he walked into that leadership meeting..

            ..not knowing he had been totally done and dusted..

            ..brought down by good old-fashioned leftwing organising/nailing down the numbers..

            ..and out from the shadows strode the apparatchik/policy-wonk from ak..

            ..the (surprising to many)..new co-leader..

            ..who would not have been there..had not bradford called in every favour/ounce of goodwill she could muster..

            ..and then we all know what happened next..

            ..fitzsimons left..and norman ratted-out on his promises to bradford..

            ..and supported turei for the role..

            ..politics is a very dirty business..

            ..even when green-tinged..

            ..eh..?

            ..i hope that tale of betrayal and treachery and lies and broken-promises clarifies that for you somewhat..there..ergo..

            ..sue bradford was stitched-up..

            ..and she deserved/deserves better..

            • bad12 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Jesus Phillip what rubbish, Nandor as front-runner to be the Green party leader, Ha-Ha-Ha that is hilarious,(give us some proof to this assertion wont you Phillip),

              Sue Bradford suddenly re-invents Herself as the Martyr in a Green Party power struggle???don’t make me laugh, Sue missed out on the leadership to Metiria,(both of whom came to the Party via the benefits rights movement), did a toy toss,left and that’s where the full stop comes in,

              My view is that Sue’s ego got the better of Her, perhaps She thought She was bigger than the Party, no matter what Her ‘reasoning was’ if there were any ‘reasoning’ at all, if She had an ounce of credibility as far as the Green movement goes She would have stayed put right where She was and quietly worked away to build Her support to such an extent that She could have been one of the Party leaders,

              The current leadership of Metiria and Russell has the ability not only to reach out to the middle class but secure their votes too, and, that goes for the young in National safe seats as well and you, thinking you know better, poo poo this as some form of sellout,

              It’s a democracy Phillip, requiring the votes of the people to gauge and gain the influence of where ones ideals and ideals are acceptable to be passed into the Laws of the land…

              • Clemgeopin

                I agree with your point on another post advocating the Labour and Green supporters in Epsom and Ohariu to strategically vote for the National candidate to get rid of the ACT and UF political parasites, Whyte and Dunne, in order to nullify the National’s cunning and dirty tactics. [I could not reply to you under your post there as the ‘reply’ button was not showing!]

                • bad12

                  Ah Clem, the secret to replying after the ‘reply’ tab has done the disappear is to go back up the comments until you find the last reply tab and hit on that one,

                  Usually does the trick and your comment is stacked in the correct order, the miracles of computing,(and it took me a while to figure that one out too Lolz),

                  Yeah Clem, those opposed to ‘strategic voting’ cite submissions to the Electoral Commission as evidence of dislike for this practice, ‘the voters’ tho as evidenced by the last election do not see it that way,

                  My view is that such strategies, gerrymandering if you will is within the rules and is transparent, we can all see exactly what is going on and it is then up to us, us as in the political parties of the left, to devise strategy which nullifies in this case National’s attempts at building themselves a majority,

                  i don’t like ‘morals’ for dinner they make a very unsubstantial meal, the sooner ‘the left’ comes down off that high-ground in my opinion the better…

              • so..when nandor wasa high-profile mp..

                ..and norman was keith lockes’ assistant in the auckland office..

                ..whose name was usually greeted with a ‘russel who?’..

                ..at that time..nandor was most certainly the front-runner..

                ..in most eyes..

                ..including his own..

                ..and are you saying russel norman never made that promise to sue bradford..?

                ..and that she went and worked like crazy to get norman elected..?

                ..right ho..!

                ..that is after all – all i said..

                ..(btw..sue bradford has never spoken to me about this issue..

                ..i wouldn’t mind having that conversation with her one day..

                ..this was all gleaned from other sources..

                ..and maybe you could make the case she should have stayed..

                ..as a voice of reason during this lurch to ‘the middle’..as you call it..

                ..and i agree..that is where they have gone..

                ..i just don’t know how all those on whose shoulders they undoubtedly stand..

                ..how they feel about this headlong rush to the bmw-garage..

                ..and this wholesale compromising of all that they stood/fought for..

                ..as the price to pay for the keys to those bmw’s..

                ..you call it ‘going to the middle’..

                i’m a bit more brutal..

                ..i call it a wholesale selling-out..

                …i guess it all must be in the eye of the beholder..

                ..eh..?

                • bad12

                  Phillip, i am definitely saying that Sue Bradford never worked like crazy to get Russell Norman elected as co leader of the Green Party,

                  As far as this ‘supposed’ promise goes from Norman to Bradford you will have to put up something more than ”you got told”,(if it did occur in the manner you say i would suggest that Russell saw in Sue exactly the same as what i did years befor during the benefit rights days, that i will keep to myself for the moment),

                  You do tho make mention of ”who’s shoulders the ultimately stand upon”, mine for starters Phillip, and, what shoulders that now support the Party, should they stray, can just as easily be removed,(but hardly on your say so),

                  i will reverse what you say and by way of query ask you ”who’s shoulders did Sue Bradford stand upon that gave Her the profile to get Her nose into the trough”, i wont bother to enlighten you to particular ‘publicity stunts’ that Sue ‘thought’ up to get Her face front and center on the TV screen,(its only politics after all),

                  As i point out tho, the shoulders stood on by those who would ‘represent us’ in an effort to reach such heady heights can just as easily be withdrawn and about the time Bradford was voted ‘best behaved MP’ in the Parliament, ‘we’ having tired of waiting simply withdrew our shoulders,

                  So at least half of 200 delegates voted Russell Norman into the position of co-leader out of a field of 4 candidates on the first ballot and while i havn’t got the ballot papers here Phillip i would suggest Nandor certainly didn’t get a look in,(perhaps the other 2 entered the race as ‘spoilers’, but that’s politics,

                  See what your saying is that Russell Norman promised to support Sue Bradford into a co-leader position and then welched on this deal, really??? got any evidence to support such a defamation???,

                  Do you know who i think is the ‘smarter’ of the pair Sue Bradford/Meteria Turei, knowing both of them i won’t make a judgement call, but guess who won the delegates vote in that co-leadership race Phillip,(that’s a clue by the way),

                  What are you really whining about Phillip, the fact that no-one can be bothered with dope legalization at the moment, everything else your raving about is simply politics and if you think that the Green Party stuff is ‘mean’ you havn’t yet seen how my little crew have un-seated some from their pompous positions in certain organizations…

                  • yeah right..

                    ..bradford/delahunty et al didn’t ‘work’ the country..

                    ..in a concerted-campaign to get norman elected over tanczos..?

                    ..right ho..!

                    ..you just carry-on..eh..?

                    “..and if you think that the Green Party stuff is ‘mean’ you havn’t yet seen how my little crew have un-seated some from their pompous positions in certain organizations…”

                    ok..tony…

                    ..you put ‘the fix’ in..?.ka-peeche..?

                    ..were all the other bosses onside..?

                    ‘went out this morning..etc etc..and got myself a gun..’

                    ..heh..!

                    • bad12

                      Puppies spray Philip is what i detect as the sum total of you latest comment/lie, it’s an old day now here in this Post but i am sure we will be discussing things in a far deeper manner in coming days,

                      When you can add some proof to your lies Phillip you will be believable, until such time as that proof is added what you say is simply the jumbled raving of a filthy junky who has destroyed any capability to distinguish between fantasy and reality…

                    • “..a filthy junky.”

                      time to flick the off-switch on you again..

                      ..methinks..

                      ..you are becoming foam-flecked..again..

                      ..and that can’t be good for you..

                      ..eh..?

                      ..good-nite irene..

                    • bad12

                      But Phillis, you yourself admit to being a poly-addict, in some terminologies this would equate to you being a filthy junky,

                      In terms of what you think, say, and, spray, into the pages of the Standard, this status(Ha-Ha-Ha),this status of yours,poly-addiction aka filthy junky means that its all colored, or more to the point, discolored, by the warped brain suffering either the effects or withdrawals from your particular drug of choice which maintains your addiction at the moment,

                      The best means of providing a measurement of this coloring of what passes for thought in your addled mind is to point out that your brain is in a constant state of concussion and/or suffering various levels of what the Psychiatric Profession,(i think the insertion of another Ha-Ha-Ha appropriate at this point), calls a psychotic episode,

                      In effect Philip, such self inflicted Psychotic episodes are to all extents and purposes Schizophrenia of a self inflicted nature and while Psychotic events are said in some circles to be accompanied by the odd flash of psychic ability such ‘flashes’ are few and far between with the ongoing Schizophrenia making the self inflicted sufferer more garbled and un-understandable the longer the self infliction lasts,

                      At some point in the self infliction the damage done to the brain cannot be reversed even when the self infliction ceases and the self inflicted simply lead a life of Psychotic events/Psychic flashes, never being able to distinguish between the reality of one and the fantasy of the other,

                      Such is what you daily exhibit in the pages of the Standard Phillip…

                      [lprent: I can’t see a point in here. Read the policy about pointless abuse. ]

              • bad12

                By the way Phillip, Nandor the high flyer???, only among those who regularly lit up the bhong,

                ”Mr Tanczos first entered the Parliament in 1999 but was on the outer in 2005 after being demoted from fourth to seventh on the party list”

                http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/202119/tanczos-weighs-up-quitting

                • another factcheck for you..

                  ..as far as being a pothead..

                  ..nandor was a lite-weight…

                  ..and you cite the conclusion of the successful/orchestrated campaign against him..

                  (..funnily enough..that pot-slur/lie you cite..being a pillar of that whispering-campaign..)

                  ..you cite this as evidence of what exactly..?

                  • bad12

                    You claim Phillip that Nandor was a Green Party high flyer, the problem with that dense statement is that mere months befor Nandor wasn’t an MP either having taken a dive on the party list and failed to be elected,(probably a plot from the other MP’s who just knew the Party Vote was going to tumble right),

                    The only reason Nandor got back into the Parliament was because Rod Donald died so far from the favorite of the members as you stupidly claim He was to all extents and purposes a ‘goner’ befor any thoughts of a leadership contest…

  5. geoff 6

    Matthew Hooton & Chris Trotter scheduled for the political slot this morning on RNZ.
    I suppose they’ll both enjoy bashing David Cunliffe.

    • trotter couldn’t be worse than ‘i serially-agree with matthew!’ williams..

      ..cd he..?

      • Mary 6.1.1

        Very few could be more painful than Williams. I hope RNZ has finally seen the light and axed him. The only good thing about Williams is the entertainment his stupidity brings but the problem with this is that you have to listen to his voice which is often an impossible task.

      • Tracey 6.1.2

        does trotter really represent a left view?

        hooten doesnt represent a right view, he supports the national govt. its not quite the same thing.

    • Mainlander 6.2

      “I suppose they’ll both enjoy bashing David Cunliffe”
      Oh dear i will have to switch off my radio that will take at least all day

  6. Hami Shearlie 7

    The one interesting thing about the poll is that the number of “undecided” votes has shot up so high – add that to all the under 30’s who don’t have landlines, the whole of South Auckland who rarely have landlines, the landline owners who are all out at work and you are left with older, somewhat wealthier people who have landlines, who may be retired – and in that group the number of undecideds has skyrocketed! Very interesting! Not so dedicated to Jonkey as they once were!!

  7. greywarbler 8

    Listening to Radionz this morning a variety of news.
    One about the CTV building and the Fire Service. Over 10 officials from the FS in Christchurch by evening and not one with a base at the CTV building. Hands off management?

    I have commented before how there seems to be a distaste for getting the hands dirty by some men. It seems as you move up in this classist society and join the managerial class you don’t ever roll your sleeves up and get down to the operational side. Someone commenting said ‘that wasn’t their role’ when talking about handling disaster.

    And this could be where the problem lies. People taking management roles who know all about their role but who don’t have the commitment to extend themselves to serve in whatever way they can in a disaster. A silo mentality. If they have been appointed on the generic manager principle, then they may not have the necessary deep knowledge and experience to do so. What is needed actually, is people who can think laterally and liaise and help to the full moving between their management role and the operational.

    We noticed something similar with Pike. The police on the spot unwilling to chance injury, life and limb had taken over management and control of the mine excluding miners who could not even carry out a sortie within their own capabilities, with the aid of the police or their gear, but at their own risk. Instead the police were liaising with management in Wellington who Poirot-like sat and thought about it all at their desks. Except Poirot in the stories found ways of reaching the best conclusion possible and this was never tested at Pike.

    • weka 8.1

      There was also the journalist (TV3 I think) who told how within a minute of the quake he was on the street filming. Not helping pull people out of rubble, but filming. Told the story with pride, or at least no shame.

  8. greywarbler 9

    Matthew is hooting about Russel Norman saying that the Greens don’t have TPPA as a bottom line thing. And saying WTF. What is Russel up to? I guess he is being pragmatic and saying what he and the Greens would do if it became a done deal that had to be coped with. But a stand against it, rather than looking at the legals and checking the i’s and crossing t’s is what we would expect surely. Try the alphabet letter y Norman? That’s the word to use.

    Why do we want TPPA? What is likely to happen for this country?? We know the signs are – this way to the Lemmings Leap! (Sotto voce, ‘Suckers’.)

    Green link.
    https://www.greens.org.nz/oralquestions/russel-norman-why-any-final-tppa-text-should-be-tabled-parliament

    The Herald reports.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11228752

    A Green Party spokesman later clarified that the party continued to be opposed to the TPPA and would vote against it in its current form, whether in government or opposition. There would need to be significant changes to the agreement for the Greens to support it, he said.

    Dr Norman said there were areas where the party could get Labour to move, but others where the parties would differ.
    “So it will all depend on how that relative balance of power is in a post-election negotiation.”

    The TPP would have to change “very significantly” before the Greens would vote in favour of it.
    “The current TPP is so far away from basic democratic rights, environmental protection.”

    Matthew H is trying to diss a link between the 18-24 years and the Internet Party. He is bringing up a connection for that age and Jim Bolger in the 90’s as an example. Grasping at straws, what an odd reference, totally irrelevant for here and now. A different time, a different theatre, and different mindsets.

    • Tracey 9.1

      tv3 claimed russell took a position about tpp, then played a clip which didnt show what they headlined. more bs journalism.

      • greywarbler 9.1.1

        Don’t believe in what I say, but see what I do eh!

      • ianmac 9.1.2

        I watched The Nation online and was staggered at the way Paddy the Terrible asked leading questions then denied that the interviewee had answered differently from Paddy’s question.
        Blatantly putting words in the mouth of Russell which he did not say. Paddy did likewise to David Cunliffe.
        Paddy: Do you Russell believe that the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger?
        Russell: The data supports that position and we in the Greens will work hard to change that unlike the National Government which denies that there is a problem.
        Paddy: So you are denying that there is a problem that the gap is growing bigger.
        Russell: No! What I said..
        Paddy: Moving on to another question……
        (Paddy notes to self must headline 6pm News with “Russell Norman denies that the gap between Rich and Poor is growing bigger.” He did speak those words)

        • Clemgeopin 9.1.2.1

          That IS shocking and false reporting.

          I suggest you complain to MEDIA WORKS (first) on their OFFICIAL complaint site (not the TV3 feedback one. doesn’t count!), wait for response within the mandatory 20 days and then complain to the Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA).

          This is the ONLY way to get some fairness and balanced reporting of news now. Don’t let the stupid so called ‘journalists’ get away with lies, spin, unfairness, exaggeration, propaganda, bias and BS.

          Here is the link:
          http://www.mediaworks.co.nz/Default.aspx?tabid=288

          Cheers!

          • ianmac 9.1.2.1.1

            Opps. Not a real report Clem. Just my interpretation of what Paddy is doing to his guests. However I did complain to TV3 at the similar huge distortions made during the Gower/Cunliffe interview a week or so ago followed by such mischief, when Paddy misreported for TV3 News.

            • Clemgeopin 9.1.2.1.1.1

              Bloody hell! You sucked me in a day before April Fools day! ……[John Key has been doing that to about 45% of voters for the last 6 years!]

    • bad12 9.2

      Heh, Hooton thinks He is the clever one, Russell Norman just played a little trump card, expressing bottom lines would have simply given the Hootons of the world something with which to promote divisions,

      The Green Party has certainly learned from the ‘lightbulbs’ and showerheads’ incidents, the point Russell makes is the all important one, the Green Party can only have influence of a significance that has been passed to the Party by the voters,

      An 18–19–20% Green/Mana-Internet bloc in the next Parliament would certainly provide such influence…

  9. Anne 10

    The RNZ political slot was enjoyable this morning. Chris Trotter brings an extra intellectual element to bear which even had an effect on Matthew Hooton. Sometimes Trotter goes too far with his extrapolations, but this morning he was spot on. I agree with him when he says David Cunliffe is being held back from expressing his real views on matters like the TPPA because of the right wing element within his own caucus. Perhaps it is in the interest of Labour if they don’t win the next election because that will surely mean the ‘old hands’ will be forced to move on.

    Personally, I would like to see Cunliffe stand up to them and give them an ultimatum. Get behind me and the rest of the Party or get out.

    • karol 10.1

      Wayne Hope said something similar on The Daily Blog today.

      Maybe it’s not too late for more of us to make our dissatisfaction with the right wing of Labour caucus known?

      • Clemgeopin 10.1.1

        I am a Labour supporter and a socialist, but I am a little weary of this left and right straight jacket labeling.

        Policies should be fair, just and good for all the people, the environment and the country. They need to be socialist based but fair and just to all, the rich and the poor, the workers and the employers, the young and the old, the employed and the unemployed.

        The policies should be based on critical thinking, evidence based and help advance people’s aspirations.

        In order to achieve good results to make New Zealand a better place, we must be smart enough to use all kinds of policies and not be hung up on so called ‘left’ or ‘right’ policies. That is such a retro kind of thinking in this modern advanced high tech age!

        • bad12 10.1.1.1

          Lolz Clem, that’s a state,ment worthy of Pete George, Mathew Hooton used to run the same line a while back, (there is no real left or right),

          Depends where you sit in the food chain, if your comfortable in your job, think it’s ‘safe’ and you have the ability to save then sure the politics of left and right become blurred…

          • Clemgeopin 10.1.1.1.1

            Oh, no! Don’t mention Dunne and Hooten Hooton and Banks and Key……..Yuck! I despise their views and ways!

            [When I say, policies that are fair to the rich and poor, it does not exclude a reasonable increase in income tax rate to the top earners. It was 39% during the last Labour government which this stupid present government reduced to help the the wealthy the most and lost about 2 billion dollars of revenue each year every year!
            The tax rate should not be unreasonably high squeezing business and jobs either.

            Just one example]

            [lprent: Learn to spell peoples names please. ]

        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.2

          They need to be socialist based but fair and just to all, the rich and the poor, the workers and the employers, the young and the old, the employed and the unemployed.

          We can’t afford the rich so, inevitably, policies that are good for society are going to be bad for the rich.

    • Ergo Robertina 10.2

      Trotter brought a bit of life the segment, as often it can be rather boring.

      ‘Perhaps it is in the interest of Labour if they don’t win the next election because that will surely mean the ‘old hands’ will be forced to move on…’

      Interesting point, but the media is falsely framing the Cunliffe leadership as a ‘lurch to the left’, which is not being countered anywhere, for various reasons.
      If Labour loses, it is likely the myth will be perpetuated that the failure of the supposed ‘lurch’ to excite the electorate is evidence it has to move to the right.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1

        If Labour loses, it is likely the myth will be perpetuated that the failure of the supposed ‘lurch’ to excite the electorate is evidence it has to move to the right.

        That’s exactly how it will be used. If Labour lose this election we can expect to see Cunliffe kicked out of the leadership position and Labour following National further to the right.

      • Bearded Git 10.2.2

        You must be kidding Ergo-3 more years of these evil slimeballs rather than a Labour/Green coalition?

        Standardista’s need to unite behind this potential red/green coalition rather than keep arguing amongst each other.

        • geoff 10.2.2.1

          +a bajillion bearded g

        • Ergo Robertina 10.2.2.2

          That is not what I said, Bearded Git. That is a misrepresentation.
          I do not believe it is right to let this Cunliffe regime be presented as a ‘lurch to the left’, as that is untruthful, unless you consider raising the retirement age, paying a few extra government workers a living wage, and controlling electricity inflation without messing with the profit gouging model, to be left-wing. And then there’s Labour’s bullshit prevarication on the TPP, and support for legislation to prosecute partners of benefit fraudsters.
          We are drowning in propaganda, and I am not going to be united behind perpetuating a lie.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.3

      Personally, I would like to see Cunliffe stand up to them and give them an ultimatum. Get behind me and the rest of the Party or get out.

      He’d be able to do that if he had the proof that the party membership was fully behind him. The only way that he would get that is to have full democratic accountability:

      https://www.loomio.org/

      When Labour implements that I think we would see Labour’s right-wing moving on as they would find that they’re just not compatible with the party.

      • greywarbler 10.3.1

        That would be an interesting useful tool – a good task for loomio. I was reading about it here the other day but hadn’t seen its best application.

        • Draco T Bastard 10.3.1.1

          IMO, There’s a few places where it can be used immediately
          1.) Council wards
          2.) Political parties
          3.) Clubs

          Larger communities such as full councils and discussing national policy will probably take a bit of time as people get used to having a say in their local communities first. I could be wrong on that, in fact I’d love to be as I’d prefer a more participatory democracy but I don’t think I am.

          • Tracey 10.3.1.1.1

            sadly too many think its better to run a country like a company than a democracy…. hence the dilution of community boards in places in auckland… what would the people know, theyre not all accountants and business people.

            • greywarbler 10.3.1.1.1.1

              The trouble is Tracey, sometimes people will not take the time to think and analyse. Often there’s just reaction to the latest event. Groups I have worked for usually will not have a single idea when asked in advance to ‘give us your thoughts’. If they do they have no idea why it might be a good or what could make it a bad idea, no background thinking.

              • Tracey

                agreed. it is possible people have lost an expectation for any real information. that does seem to be the way the rich have ensured their ongoing prosperity…

                remember how upset thechurch was to have the bible published in languages the plebs could read and understand… same concept imo.

                • greywarbler

                  The plebs get complacent, find a niche and go to it and expect to stay there. unmolested. But they may remain ignorant that outside the den walls, all is not quite as rosy as they think. That nothing is over, till they die. Before that they have to keep percolating or end up in a home for the bewildered making paper hats for mock olympics held at the institution.

                  And that does not fit the picture we have of intelligent questing man and woman eternally flexible and adaptable to changes. That implies that people are noticing changes, thinking about them, even foreseeing them and what they think should be done if there are changes. It keeps the mind alive.

                  Complacency is deadening to the intellect apparently. That is why we are near to having our pavlova pinched from under our noses and ‘you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone’. So we can’t let others grab our pavlova paradise. We must be a lert, and get out with all the other lerts and think and do.

                  Self-visualisation and action-motivation at work here. Please do not disturb.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Groups I have worked for usually will not have a single idea when asked in advance to ‘give us your thoughts’.

                Yep, that happens when people are confronted with such a question out of the blue. That’s why I like Loomio, it allows discussion, time for people to get their head into gear.

          • greywarbler 10.3.1.1.2

            DTB
            Don’t local boards in Vermont have participatory meetings for decisions? I think they used to anyway. I wonder what the good and bad sides to it are, and the overall opinion there of its effectiveness?

          • MaxFletcher 10.3.1.1.3

            I’m quite well acquainted with one of the Loomio founders in Wellington. I am most impressed with the dedication of the team

    • Tracey 10.4

      perhaps dotcom will do everyone a favour and offer mallard a job as his chief body guard and political strategist

    • kenny 10.5

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    • karol 10.6

      Trotter & Hooton on RNZ today

      [audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20140331-1126-politics_with_chris_trotter_and_matthew_hooton-048.mp3" /]

  10. Clemgeopin 11

    If you recall, I had made an official complaint about the sensational propagandist, a so called ‘journalist’, Patrick Gower to TV3 first as that is a requirement before an official complaint can be made to the Broad casting standards authority.

    I had promised to keep you informed. Here it is.

    The matter was related to the following report by Gower:
    Interview on the Nation: http://www.3news.co.nz/How-can-Cunliffe-beat-Key/tabid/1348/articleID/334196 /Default.aspx News at 6pm: http://www.3news.co.nz/David-Cunliffe-admits-mistake-in-attack-on-PMs-wealth/tabid/1607/articleID/334215/Default.aspx

    TV3 is supposed to reply within 20 days. However obviously they are unable to.
    Here is their reply to me today:

    Dear Clem,

    You lodged your complaint with us on 3 March 2014 and our normal practice is to respond to your complaint within 20 working days of that date. Unfortunately due to pressure of other complaints work we are not going to be able to meet the deadline for getting a response to you. We apologise for this delay and we will get a response to you as soon as possible and in any event no later than 40 working days from the date you lodged your complaint with us.

    Kind regards

    for MediaWorks TV Standards Committee.

    I will update you what happens next,
    Cheers!

    • Rosie 11.1

      Thanks for keeping us up to date with your complaint Clemgeopin.

      This bit was interesting:

      “Unfortunately due to pressure of other complaints work we are not going to be able to meet the deadline for getting a response to you.”

      So lots of complaints then!!! All Gower related, or some about their excess and brain numbing reality show programming? Either way, they are receiving extra complaints in general that caused them to go past their deadline in responding to yours, and/or they are understaffed in that department.

    • Tracey 11.2

      another toothless complaints process. ask them how many complaints are ahead of you.

    • weka 11.3

      Thanks Clem! I think others here made complaints too.

  11. anker 12

    Interesting. I lodged two complaints with the Herald over the way Trevett and O’Sullivan reported the Trust issues for DC.

    Didn’t hear for 10 days, so sent it straight through to the Press Council, which is what you are suppose to do (give the media 10 days to respond). Then the Press Council got back to me and said they had been in touch with the Herald and unfortunately, my email with the complaint had been “over-looked”. So I have given the Herald another go and guess what? Still no response. I am counting down the days and then its going straight back to the Press Council. No if, buts or maybes.

  12. veutoviper 13

    Today’s episode – more in the soap opera of the “Mysterious sitting MP”.

    Did Dunne do it?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11229577

    • bad12 13.1

      Although Dunne fits the profile i really think that DotCom has simply used the ‘other MP’ as a bargaining chip,

      DotCom knows that Hone holds all the Aces in this little game, having said that i hope they keep the negotiation going as i am leaning slightly toward Mana at the moment as the recipient of my Party vote,

      An Alliance, Mana/Internet Party i would suggest might be worth 3 or 4 MP’s in the next Parliament…

      • McFlock 13.1.1

        lol
        it might well be the first ever instance of political vaporware. 🙂

        • weka 13.1.1.1

          heh. Bet there’s been plenty of policy vaporware before though.

          • McFlock 13.1.1.1.1

            “170,000 new jobs” springs to mind, as does the letter Garner claimed was circulating in one particular week 🙂

            Can’t think of an actual vaporware MP, though…
            There must be something – like the old:
            Mutineer: “cap’n, me and all the men here don’t like what you’re doin'”
            Captain: “What men, where?”
            Mutineer: [looks behind him, sees nobody is there to back him up] ” … “

            • weka 13.1.1.1.1.1

              Is that the Labour caucus?

            • phillip ure 13.1.1.1.1.2

              that is the story of the leadership of david shearer..

              ..that’s why i reckon he will go and lead the internet party..

              ..i’m sure he’s had more than a lifetimes worth of labour caucus/party meetings..

              ..(heh..!..one of the seven circles of hell..?..)

              ..leading a fast-paced/technology-up-the-wazoo party..

              ..one promising to do all the futurist-stuff he wanted to do as leader of labour..

              ..but never got to implement..

              ..i would..if i were him..

              ..wouldn’t you..?

              ..and i don’t see him trying to contest the labour-safe mt albert seat,,”..if it’s happening..he can leave in june..

              ..thus leaving labour plenty of time to fill that seat..

              ..shearer/iternet party won’t want to go to war with labour..

              ..they will want to work with labour post-election..

              ..a civilised/timely handing back of mt albert will go a long way towards cementing that..

              ..thus..the june date announced by dotcom..

              ..as when he will tell us who will be leading the internet party..

              ..this is what/how i reckon things will go down..

              • McFlock

                Great. So the stoner pick for KDC’s mp is shearer.

                • the pigman

                  … and yours is vaporware. Meh. Easy to paint people into boxes, innit? Pass the vapouriser, please phil. 🙂

              • the pigman

                Well, um, look, um, that depends on how things go upI mean down… I mean um, mango skins for the poor isn’t the most um, futurist solution to child poverty, but um, I suppose the warmer weather will… no, look, um, provide a suitable climate for mango cultivation…

                If you’re right, then at least Shearer will finally get to enjoy the “full support of caucus” 😀

              • millsy

                It would be an interesting prospect, DS for the IP leadership, but he will want the Foreign Affairs portfolio in a Labour cabinet.

                He probably got thrust into the Labour leadership too early IMO. Goff should never have stood down after 2011

        • ianmac 13.1.1.2

          vaporware! Good name and perhaps more polite than “bullshit” whenever the current Government announces a new idea especially suited to deflect interest in Labour/Greens.
          “I say Mr Key old chap. Are you spouting more Vaporware?”

    • If it is all a giant vanishing act, the tactic of saying ‘oh, they’ve had to deny it in the media’ is genius, if a little bit reminiscent of ‘only the true Messiah would deny it!’

  13. Tracey 14

    Genesis going cheap-ish?

    herald reports today

    Four out of five independent research reports from investment houses in New Zealand and Australia value Genesis Energy shares at higher than the $1.55 a share offer price announced by government Ministers last Friday.

    The highest valuations, from Edison Investment Research and Craigs Investment Partners, suggest Genesis shares could be worth $1.97 apiece, while the most conservative valuation is from Australian research house Morningstar, which places a ‘fair value’ on the shares of $1.60.

  14. Bearded Git 15

    Interesting poll today in Herald asking “What do you think of National’s handling of income equality?”.

    Over 7000 responses and 48% say “it has been bad.”

    I know these polls are suspect, but that’s an incredible result for the Herald. Definitely votes to be had here by Labour if they get the policy right, and it needs to be STRONG policy because National will come in with some policy on this issue to cover their backsides.

  15. Penny Bright 16

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/commerce-commission-investigates-currency-trading-amid-global-probe-manipulation-bd-154008#comment-650236

    (My comment – yet to be published )

    How can the public have confidence that NZ politicians at the highest levels are not involved in foreign exchange trading – either directly – or indirectly passing on tips to friends / family or business associates?

    Who is checking?

    How is this being checked?

    Anyone else think that these are fair questions?

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption/anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    • millsy 17.1

      The French like a bit of fascism from time to time. This is a country that almost carried out a military coup over same sex marriage.

  16. One Anonymous Bloke 19

    Breaking news. Intl Court of Justice upholds Australia’s bid to ban Japanese whaling.

    Stop the press! Tony Abbott announces Australia will commence its own whaling.

    I made that last part up.

    • ianmac 19.1

      Yes AOB. Good news but will Japan stop do you thin? Who will stop them in Antarctica?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 19.1.1

        Tony Abbott will defend Australia’s right to kill whales to the death. You think he’ll stop at sinking Japanese whaling ships?

        Seriously though, this is a good result, not a symbolic victory.

  17. ianmac 20

    That was fun. Paul Henry waved the Climate Change Report around on his late show. It is a reality he said.
    Then he interviewed Tim Groser Minister of Climate Change. Tim plodded on with all the talk. Paul asked him repeatedly to explain just what has the Government done apart from talk. Tim talked some more about all the talking they must do in the future and how the Government was leaving it up to Local Councils to do something anyway.
    So Paul said that the Government has done nothing then. Tim looked a bit unhappy. Not used to being challenged it seems.
    Poor Tim (And questions were from one of the Government supporters too!!)

  18. Jrobin 21

    That’s almost scary. Paul Henry probably owns a beach house and is worried Local Councils won’t agree to build a special moat around it. Beachside real estate is starting to look like a horribly ironic investment for the very wealthy.

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  • Bribing for convictions
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  • How does Labour expect to get away with this?
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  • The Chronicles of Kregsmal and Krunch: Volume III
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  • Climate challenges mount for California agriculture
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  • NZ Politics Daily: 18 November 2021
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  • Further COVID-19 economic support for Cook Islands and Fiji announced
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  • New law will clear the air for tamariki in vehicles
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    18 hours ago
  • Nine countries designated very high risk
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    20 hours ago
  • Foreign Affairs Minister concludes final stage of world trip
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    1 day ago
  • Milestone launch of Pacific Languages Unit
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  • Public Health Lecture – University of Otago
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  • New Zealand statement on situation in Honiara, Solomon Islands
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    3 days ago
  • Investment to support maternal mental health
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    3 days ago
  • Workplace vaccination requirements extended to cover Police and NZ Defence Force
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    3 days ago
  • Aotearoa New Zealand and Canada to pursue greater Indigenous collaboration
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    3 days ago
  • Māori vaccination rates reach 80% first dose
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    4 days ago
  • Subsequent Children legislation to change
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  • Security Information in Proceedings Legislation Bill introduced to Parliament
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  • Shortcomings revealed in power cut investigation
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  • COVID-19 Protection Framework supported by new testing and contact tracing strategy
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  • Additional support for people isolating at home
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  • Tax bill provides vital support for families
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  • New text service to support disabled peoples’ vaccinations
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  • Proactive Calendar Release – October 2021
    ...
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  • Pacific community reach vaccination milestone
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    5 days ago
  • Reconnecting New Zealand – the next steps
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    5 days ago
  • Shot in the arm for Canterbury tourism
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    5 days ago
  • Combined efforts connecting locals to nature
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    5 days ago
  • Empowering Diverse Communities
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  • Moriori Claims Settlement Bill passes Third Reading
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  • Permanent drug-checking law passed and new providers appointed
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    6 days ago
  • Pacific communities supported to transition to the COVID-19 Protection Framework
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  • Government helps Pasifika Festivals to ride the COVID wave
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  • Tech ready for businesses and events to open up for summer
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  • The talanoa about the future of our Pacific Languages
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  • Foreign Minister concludes successful visit to the United Arab Emirates and Qatar
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  • Govt to review high cost of residential building supplies in market study
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  • Speech to NZ Sepsis Conference 2021
    E nga mana, E nga reo, E nga iwi, Tēna kotou katoa. Ka huri ki nga mana whenua o te rohe nei. Tēna koutou. He mihi hoki ki a tatou kua tau mai nei I raro I te kaupapa o te rā. No reira tēna koutou katoa. Opening It’s a ...
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  • New Centre for the Child to be established in Tā Wira Gardiner’s name
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  • Government funding supports new iwi led housing in Ōpōtiki
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  • NCEA and Scholarship exams begin Monday
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  • Funding for vaccine development to help prevent rheumatic fever
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  • AstraZeneca arrives in New Zealand; second COVID-19 vaccine available this month
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