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Open mike 31/08/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 31st, 2015 - 79 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

79 comments on “Open mike 31/08/2015 ”

  1. Tautoko Mangō Mata 1

    “Court: We Can’t Rule on NSA Bulk Data Collection Because We Don’t Know Whose Data Was Collected
    On Friday, an appeals court overturned a U.S. District Court decision last May that had declared that the National Security Agency’s bulk collection of Americans’ phone records was beyond the authorization of the law. The three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit kicked the matter back to the lower court for additional deliberation.

    The decision did not declare the NSA’s program, which was revealed by whistleblower Edward Snowden in 2013, to have been legal or constitutional. Rather, it focused on a technicality: a majority opinion that the plaintiffs in the case could not actually prove that the metadata program swept up their own phone records. Therefore, the plaintiffs, the court declared, did not have standing to sue.

    “Today’s ruling is merely a procedural decision,” said Alexander Abdo, the American Civil Liberties Union attorney who argued against the program at the U.S. District Court. “Only one appeals court has weighed in on the merits of the program, and it ruled the government’s collection of Americans’ call records was not only unlawful but ‘unprecedented and unwarranted.’”

    Circuit Court Judge Janice Rogers Brown summarized the problem facing the court: “Excessive secrecy limits needed criticism and debate. Effective secrecy ensures the perpetuation of our institutions.”
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/08/28/court-cant-rule-nsa-bulk-collection-dont-know-whose-data-collected/

  2. adam 2

    To ad-lib from Mock the Week. “Rugby, not really that important in the scheme of things – unless you are a insecure kiwi”

    Oh wait John Key and Co. at AB selection for world cup. Can it get any-more shallow. Yes it can…

    http://www.3news.co.nz/opinion/opinion-why-no-criticism-of-key-the-all-blacks-fanboy-2015082711#axzz3kKSijR3b

    • miravox 2.1

      I can’t remember that I’ve ever agreed with Patrick Gower before. But on this topic his words and tone are pretty good. What an ridiculous spectacle this bunch of politicians have made of themselves.

      • ianmac 2.1.1

        When the All Blacks tour to S Africa was cancelled post the anti-tour shambles, I felt for the athletes who had trained so hard, but despised the Rugby Union for their stand and for their 1981 stand. People versus the Organisation.
        This politicisation now gets in the way of another crop of athletes. Sad.

    • RedBaronCV 2.2

      Thank you Patrick G and I don’t say that very often. Could you imagine the outrage if “Labour did it too”. Looks like Ritchie’s day job is sucking up to one JK. In the longer term thogh it will hopefully diminish rugby’s following. Tying yourself to a politician probably won’t do the brand any good in the longer term

      • ianmac 2.2.1

        Katherine did a little spiel this morning on the Politics segment and sounded pretty sceptical about Key’s involvement. Perhaps it is a Matthew says, that this is the style of populist appearances which sit in voters mind. The way of politics now and of the future.

    • locus 2.3

      like a lot of kiwis i love the game of rugby…. but this smearing of AB history and mana by letting a politician front them is beyond me –

      by all means go shake the hand of the prime minister, but to suck up to a tawdry self-publicist and his beehive sycophants….. is thoroughly nauseating

      So sorry that the ABs chose to allow this use and abuse of their fame….. this lessens their mana

      • tc 2.3.1

        The NZRB is long overdue for a loss of mana as a result of the way they align themselves to national govt’s.

  3. Tautoko Mangō Mata 3

    Big Sugar and TPPA
    A sweet deal for American sugar farmers is compounding delays in a proposed trade agreement affecting 40% of the world’s economy.

    But the trade deal may also weaken protections for the sugar industry dating back to the Great Depression should negotiators heed the calls of Australia and other nations for the US to loosen a quota system that protects domestic suppliers while making the product more expensive for consumers. As they have for decades, sugar lobbyists are fighting to keep it that way by using their clout with lawmakers.
    In Washington, that means one thing: money. Sugar accounts for a small fraction of US farm output, but the industry contributes more to congressional campaign coffers than any other commodity producer. Between 2007 and 2014, growers donated $18.5mn, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. “The sugar lobby is one of the strongest in the country,” said James Cassidy, global head of sugar derivatives at Societe Generale in New York.
    …..
    Nowhere is the industry’s clout felt more than in Florida, base of the nation’s most powerful sugar barons, the Fanjul brothers. Between them, the Fanjuls – Alfonso, Jose, Alexander and Andres – have long-standing ties to at least three US presidential candidates: Senator Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida; Florida Governor Jeb Bush, another Republican; and Hillary Rodham Clinton, the Democratic frontrunner.”
    http://www.gulf-times.com/eco.-bus.%20news/256/details/453092/big-sugar%E2%80%99s-fight-to-keep-us-import-limits-delaying-tpp-deal

    TPPA will metastasize the cancer of US corporate donations and the influence of large corporations with the money to chill our ability to make laws in the best interest of our country even if the sugar subsidy is trimmed for US Big Sugar.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      I’ve been saying for awhile now that we need to ban lobbying and this is just more proof of that. Democracy is not one dollar one vote.

  4. Undecided about my wormy arse 4

    After all the talk of Jacinda Ardern and her leadership aspirations I think this is a beter indicator of who wants what:

    https://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/kelvin-davis-defies-labour-policy-in-charter-school-support-2015083017

    [lprent: See http://thestandard.org.nz/regional-realities/#comment-1064787 ]

    • save NZ 4.1

      Just noticed that too.

      Labour MP Kelvin Davis has rebelled against Andrew Little by giving his support to a charter school – a policy Labour strongly opposes.

      The Kelvin Davis debacle has already cost Labour a lot of votes – and been a huge boost to the Natz – now this – karma –

      • Undecided about my wormy arse 4.1.1

        I disagree, I feel Davis can attract more votes from the Nats so hopefully he’ll get a promotion next time theres a reshuffle…deputy maybe?

        [lprent: See http://thestandard.org.nz/regional-realities/#comment-1064787 ]

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1

          Following that logic Davis should probably join the National Party.

          • Undecided about my wormy arse 4.1.1.1.1

            The guy has shown he can win an electorate seat, he speaks well and is scoring hits in the house or is that not important in a leader?

            [lprent: See http://thestandard.org.nz/regional-realities/#comment-1064787 ]

            • McFlock 4.1.1.1.1.1

              It is.
              But so is supporting (rather than undercutting) policy. If anything this shows the conflict caused by issues that might have local or regional support, but are a blight on the nation.

              Which master would Davis serve should he be leader? Northland could do with the advocacy, but at the expense of everywhere else or even its own long term wellbeing?

              A leader is the leader of a team – the leader still needs to be part of that team.

              • Undecided about my wormy arse

                Maybe he feels the policy is wrong and worse, due to his background, detrimental so hes making a stand for what he believes in?

                [lprent: See http://thestandard.org.nz/regional-realities/#comment-1064787 ]

                • McFlock

                  In that case he should explicitly state his opposition and resign his education portfolio.

                  His job is to advocate for and to explain party policy as determined by the party. If he cannot do his job, he should look for another portfolio.

                  And that’s assuming that his position on that policy is correct, rather than advocating for a system that’s even worse than the current situation.

                  FFS, they get multiple times more funding from the state than other schools and they’re still running fundraisers? Where’s all the cash going, if not to the kids?

                  • weka

                    Read the link. Davis isn’t undermining the party and Undecided is misrepresenting the situation almost as badly as Gower.

                    • Undecided about my wormy arse

                      I’m saying that by going against (according to the article that is) Andrew Littles wishes Kelvin Davis is all but throwing his name into the ring and I think hes got the goods as a leader

                      [lprent: See http://thestandard.org.nz/regional-realities/#comment-1064787 ]

                    • maui

                      I think he is undermining the party, he’s effectively breaking party rules. Little may or may not have been happy with them going, we don’t really know. If Davis does personally support this charter school, how hard is it for him to just stay quiet and not publicly attend a function to avoid a media beatup. Now it looks like there is disunity in caucus.

                    • weka

                      “I’m saying that by going against (according to the article that is) Andrew Littles wishes Kelvin Davis is all but throwing his name into the ring and I think hes got the goods as a leader”

                      I don’t see any evidence of that. What I see is Paddy Gower shit stirring and you jumping on board with that. How do you get from Davis attending a fundraiser to him jostling for postition in the enxt LP leadership coup?

                    • weka

                      I think he is undermining the party, he’s effectively breaking party rules. Little may or may not have been happy with them going, we don’t really know. If Davis does personally support this charter school, how hard is it for him to just stay quiet and not publicly attend a function to avoid a media beatup. Now it looks like there is disunity in caucus.

                      I don’t know because the only thing I’ve read is Gower’s piece, which let’s face it makes Hosking look like an actual journo.

                      I’d hazard a guess that Davis is attending because its something to do with his electorate constituency. If you have some more in depth information, I’d be happy to change my mind. cheers.

                      edit, actually any kind of statement from Davis that he supports charter schools would be good.

                    • McFlock

                      dropping $250 on a seat seems a mixed signal to me

                    • weka

                      how so McFlock?

                    • “Davis isn’t undermining the party” Correct – he is undermining the leader – “That was despite leader Andrew Little asking them not to”

                      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11505590

                      perhaps an early leadership challenge!!! 🙂

                    • weka

                      subtle 😉

                      To me it looks like Labour’s internal cultural problem which prevents them from presenting as a coherent organisation. Little says he left it up to them, Davis says LIttle didn’t want them to go. At least that’s how the media tell it.

                      I can’t see a problem with Davis and the other MP going, except that they don’t know how to explain the public what they are doing.

                    • McFlock

                      How so?

                      He’s paying for students of a school that shouldn’t exist to travel overseas to visit other schools that follow the same failed model.

                      When he should be campaigning for the removal of these schools.

              • Nick Morris

                For some years I have vehemently opposed Charter Schools on principle as an attack on and an undermining of the State system. Now I am not quite so sure.

                I see nothing wrong with individual initiative as a general position, nor am I opposed to allowing some level of experimentation from dedicated individuals. The issue isn’t there. The problem we have with this particular government initiative, is the degree to which they are pandering to providers with agendas that are never going to benefit either students or society. The current government’s flirtation with Charter Schools attracts massive skepticism principally because we know they have a declared interest in laying off as much of the public service to private providers as they can get away with. We also know that with so few teachers in their ranks, they have almost no notion of what can lead to successful educational outcomes. But this does not assert that our educational system is perfectly formed as it is. A constructive plan might include far more stringent analysis before awarding a charter, and far more stringent oversight after the school is opened.

                The trick is to incorporate these initiatives as part of a more complex and inclusive State educational system, not allow them to fragment into some patchy, inadequately monitored private provision. It is also essential that the State educational authorities ensure that mainstream schools are not penalized or harmed by this kind of initiative.

                In my view, the most promising area for educational improvement is in the enhancement of professional development and information sharing among teachers and schools, but to improve the body of information to be shared, there will have to be some level of diversity of approach. If a government, committed to State Education, were to allow a certain amount of controlled experimentation, hoping to find better ways of achieving generally agreed targets, that might be highly desirable. After all no one is claiming a monopoly on solutions.

                I don’t know if Davis acted without the approval of the Labour leadership, but the disapprobation any indiscipline may attract should not be conflated with rejection of an open minded pursuit of best practice.

                • McFlock

                  Regardless of whether there is a possibility (however slim) that something matching the rough description of a “charter school” would be as good as or better than the current system, the fact is that as currently implemented without oversight or regard to cost there is no charter school in NZ that should exist.

                  They are an already failed experiment that will harm the children the fail.

            • save NZ 4.1.1.1.1.2

              He needed a hell of a lot help to ‘win’ that electoral seat, and the Natz cheered the loudest when he won.

              Nope feel Labour is losing votes due to it’s right wing, neoliberal Nat-lite, undisciplined, antics so for any vote Kelvin Davis gets, it is less 2 for Labour voters who want the Lab-full not Nat-lite.

              I can not think of any mainstream voter who wants charter schools or private prisons for that matter.

              • weka

                I know people who want charter schools who don’t vote National. It wouldn’t surprise me if many Māori did, because it enables them to set up schools more suited to their people than the public schools being run by the dominant culture. Which I have some sympathy for.

                • Then why did MoE cut funding to Ngā Kākano o te Kaihanga Kura?

                  The potential of Te Reo charter schools is a carrot used to misdirect people while National get on with their agenda of dismantling actual communities.

                  edit: and defunding Te Reo teaching programs

                  • weka

                    Don’t know about those specifics, but agree with your general point. I’m not in favour of charter schools for this reason. But I can see why some Māori would be interested, given the failure of the Crown to honour the treaty and the failure of the education system to provide Māori with good or even adequate education in many cases.

                    The other people I know interested in charter schools are those wanting more alternative education in NZ.

                    • gsays

                      hi weka, i gotta say this aint a good look- kelvin davis and peeni henare attending a charter school fundraiser. i am sure there are other descrete ways of lending your support to your local youth.

                      this is, like private prisons, a chance to establish a not negotiable position.

                      no one should profit from anothers incarceration nor their education.

                      you referred to an internal cultural problem- appearing unified.

                      i suggest this could be with leadership.
                      by this i am not having a go at andrew little, i would follow him.
                      more the strong unified message about what labour stands for.

                      after reading a few opinion pieces in the last week it seems they are still working that one out. (seemingly not keen on being too ‘left’, as it may scare the horses.)

      • Anne 4.1.2

        save NZ @ 4.1
        Gower bullshit.

        Both Davis and Peeni Henare discussed their desire to attend (btw both had personal reasons – nothing to do with politics) and Little left it up to them to make their own decision.

        New Zealand First Party leader Winston Peters was there too. He is against charter schools.

        A spokeswoman for Mr Little said he left the decision to go up to the MPs, and their attendance does not reflect any change in Labour’s policy on charter schools.

    • DH 4.2

      That’s quite outrageous reporting. Merely attending a charter school function can in no way be considered support for charter schools.

      Labour MPs attend parliament. Using TV3 logic we can conclude that Labour therefore supports a National Government.

      • save NZ 4.2.1

        If it is not true then sue them, keep MSM honest. Labour need to show some teeth, does Kelvin support charter schools or does he not?

        • Tautoko Mangō Mata 4.2.1.1

          This is what Kelvin Davis wrote on Maui Street:
          “What does the research say about Charter Schools?

          Charter Schools have an effect size of 0.20, or the 107th out of the 133 strategies that have some positive effect. Charter Schools are therefore an extremely pointless and expensive strategy.

          There are still 40 strategies that are deemed pointless, but, are still more effective than Charter Schools.”
          http://mauistreet.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/kelvin-davis-on-improving-education.html?spref=bl

          I would like to hear from Kelvin Davis himself why he attended the fundraiser before I accept any slant & muckraising by the media and make a premature judgement. It is in the media’s and National’s interest to imply that disunity still exists in the Labour Party caucus (recent attacks on Jacinda Adern, plus this) so let’s not get sucked in and amplify the misinformation.

          • weka 4.2.1.1.1

            Thanks for that.

            As per usual I’m guessing that one component missing here on the standard is a consideration of te ao Māori. It’s a Māori school right? Any chance that might be why Davis and Peters attended?

            • lprent 4.2.1.1.1.1

              It’s a Māori school right? Any chance that might be why Davis and Peters attended?

              That would be my bet. And it is in their overlapping seat. You go along to encourage kids as well as to encourage their parents and family.

        • DH 4.2.1.2

          Labour need to show some teeth there all right, but not against Kelvin Davies. That’s plain shitstirring by the media and Labour really need to start asserting some control over this behaviour else we’ll see a repeat of the last election.

          Seriously, Davies has done nothing wrong there. The school is in his constituency and wishing them well in no way implies support for charter schools. What do you expect from the man, a statement that he wants the school to fail?

          • save NZ 4.2.1.2.1

            DH – I mean’t Labour show some teeth to MSM, if they falsely are reporting Kelvin Davis is pro charter schools and sue them/lay a complaint is that is false.

      • weka 4.2.2

        I quite agree, Gower is just being a little shit as usual.

    • adam 4.3

      Beat up over nothing.

      Or the other head line form TV3

      “Labour MP refuses to support local school”

      Damned if you do, damned if you don’t….

      Wait maybe you labour people could embrace socialism then – because you been buggered the last three elections for sounding like national light.

  5. sack shane reti 5

    The Wigged One says “China” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs&feature=youtu.be please someone do a mash up of John Key et al saying “Labour did it too”

  6. save NZ 6

    Nice to see ZERO effort made to be sustainable here on the 2.7 ha new shopping mall in Westgate, Auckland, which I believe the council also provided corporate welfare chipped in for with our rates, and no public transport there either ….

    Asked about environmentally friendly aspects, centre manager Jennifer Andrews said rainwater would NOT be collected for recycling but a green wall of plants was planned.

    What a joke! It’s 2015, and the only environmentally part is a green wall of plants on 2.7 ha public development.

    • maui 6.1

      I would say the only reason a green wall is being used is to hide a massive ugly concrete tilt-slab wall that the developers/council would receive widespread complaints about.

    • maui 6.2

      This sort of building will be one of the first to go bankrupt too. Fueled by borrowing large amounts of debt, a large waste of natural resources, with limited transport connections, no water/electricity self-sufficiency. That’s all going to make it very expensive for the tenants to rent a space there and be viable and sets it up for failure. Maybe it shouldn’t be even trying to masquerade that it’s green because it clearly is the opposite.

  7. DH 7

    This shows how out of touch many people are;

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/71560214/calls-for-kiwis-stuck-in-rent-trap-to-be-given-incentives-to-save

    What these people don’t seem to grasp is that current housing inflation is literally destroying the savings of those who don’t own a house. Renters are getting further & further behind because house deposits and rents are going up more than their wages. How can people ‘save’ when the target keeps moving further away?

  8. les 8

    spending and debt=GOOD,saving =BAD….as per sustaining the Fed paradigm.

  9. Tautoko Mangō Mata 9

    The deliberate running down of Salibury school is SHAMEFUL and disgusting.

    “Special residential school says its being deliberately starved of students by the Ministry of Education
    Salisbury school for girls caters for secondary students with complex needs, including intellectual disabilities, autism, foetal alcohol syndrome, and developmental and behavioural problems.
    In 2012, the High Court ruled that the Government’s decision to close the school was unlawful. In May 2013 the education Minister Hekia Parata confirmed the government would keep the school open.”
    However since that time the government changed the enrolment system for the special school, meaning potential students can’t enroll directly, but have to be referred by the Ministry’s Intensive Wraparound Service
    That has seen the school’s roll plummet, from almost 80 in 2012, to just 9 now as no students are being referred to the school, despite many parents wishing to send their daughters there.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon

    Here is an excerpt from my Letter to John Key dated Feb 2013 showing Parata’s dirty tactics..
    “It would appear to me that the Minister of Education has halved the roll and removed the Salisbury School Board of Trustees from the assessment panel for the express purpose of running down the roll. This would mean that the co-ed Halswell Residential School in Christchurch would become the only school providing residential care for intellectually impaired girls.”

    I do think that this is an underhand way of removing the option for those parents who wish to send their intellectually impaired daughters to an all-girls school.”

    I am outraged at this government’s ability to splash money around when it suits itself (Saudi sheep, Rio Tinto, AllBlack reception, flag) but for children with disabilities needing sheltered care…??

    • save NZ 9.1

      @Tautoku

      Outrageous. +1

    • Rosemary McDonald 9.2

      @Tautoko Mango Mata….this school had the effrontery to challenge the Government.

      They are getting the typical response. (e.g. The gumminit’s response to the Family Carers Case.)

      This current administration are capable of truly malevolent actions.

      Evil sods.

  10. Barbara 10

    Peter Lyon’s column in the Herald about the Govt being nothing but Spin might be a little bit too far for the newspaper, I hope the poor b…….. isn’t now in line to have his contract terminated. He’s a brave man sticking his head out and actually criticising the present useless lot and I admire him for it. I believe he is a teacher so he has, at least other employment if he does get the chop.

  11. Bill 11

    So at the time of making this comment, The Guardian is running a banner headline Jeremy Corbyn poses national security threat, says George Osborne

    Apparently, the UK Chancellor wrote a piece for ‘The Sun’ where he made the claims. So I held my nose and clicked over to ‘The Sun’. Now, I’m not saying he didn’t write a piece and say what ‘The Guardian’ is claiming. It’s just that I can’t find it. It certainly doesn’t ‘headline’ as it does in ‘The Guardian’.

    But, remember The Most Dangerous Woman in Britain headlines about Nicola Sturgeon? And remember the Lib Dems (possibly with collusion from the Tories) running a leak on Sturgeon apparently wanting Cameron to win the UK election and the whole ‘Labour will be in the pocket of the SNP’ nonsense?

    The entire fucking UK establishment and the media sycophants (Guardian included) needs a collective lamp-post dangling.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      Geeesus the elite ruling class is putting on a bit of a panic pulse, ain’t they.

    • weka 11.2

      Crikey, the Chancellor doesn’t mince his words.

      The Guardian piece is from the Press Association. Does that mean it’s an informal government press release? There’s a longer version of it here http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/national/jeremy-corbyn-led-labour-would-pose-national-security-threat-warns-osborne-1-6931239 And if you google any of the quoted bits it shows how it’s being replicated across the internets.

      When are the results back?

      • Colonial Viper 11.2.1

        Next step will be to declare Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser and to put him under house arrest.

        • Bill 11.2.1.1

          Well, swathes of the press have already branded him a ‘terrorist sympathiser’.

          From memory, there was the nonsense radio interview by the BBC in N. Ireland where they badgered him on IRA atrocities and concluded that he wasn’t strident enough in condemning the IRA (ergo – he sympathises). That got twisted and reported widely.

          Then there was his past meetings or sharing of platforms with various people that got twisted and widely reported. I can’t remember names, but one guy subsequently peddled holocaust denial nonsense and another lived in Israel and was on their list of ‘guys we don’t like’… but they let him travel out of the country.

          Just noticed that The Sun and The Guardian are engaged in a two way game of throw and catch. The Sun is uncritically referencing Guardian anti-Corbyn headlines/stories and The Guardian is uncritically referencing anti-Corbyn Sun headlines/stories.

          I’m thinking that has to be a first.

          • swordfish 11.2.1.1.1

            The strongly establishment-oriented Board of Deputies of British Jews (branded The
            UK branch of the Israeli Ministry of Information
            by one progressive Jewish scholar, given its propensity for uncritically regurgitating Israel’s latest propaganda lines) and its mouthpiece the British Jewish Chronicle have been pushing the anti-Semitic smear for all it’s worth. (the standard treatment for any prominent person who indicates support for Palestinian national rights).

            Like many Brits on the Left, Corbyn initially gave his support to the Deir Yassin Remembered (DYR) group. Deir Yassin was, of course, the most prominent of a whole series of massacres and mass rapes committed by Zionist paramilitary forces against various Palestinian villages during the 1948 War.

            When it was discovered that a handful of dodgy types were involved in the DYR organisation (including Paul Eisen who is both Jewish and a Holocaust denier), there was a mass exodus by people on the Left, some explicitly and publicly repudiating the group, others simply washing their hands of it and moving on. Corbyn was in the latter group.

            As one progressive British Jewish organisation has said: “There is something deeply unpleasant and dishonest about your (the Jewish Chronicles) McCarthyite guilt by association technique. Jeremy Corbyn’s parliamentary record over 32 years has consistently opposed all racism including anti-Semitism.”

        • save NZ 11.2.1.2

          If he flies into NZ they can just put him under warrantless surveillance and then cancel his passport.

      • Bill 11.2.2

        Results (or is it the close of voting?) are about 10 days away.

        And sorry to be geeky about this, but in contrast to the UK (English) papers, all the major papers in Scotland are leading with the fact that ‘out of the blue’, the government has announced a 500 million refurbishment of the Faslane nuclear facilities.

        No stories anywhere (on a quick look) that are smears on Corbyn.

        funny that

  12. Dont let us start this leadership nonsense again ,No doubt these headlines are typical Crosby /Textor misinformation. we have a leader and he’s proving to be a good one. The Tories are worried and they will jump on anything that will take away the fact that NZ is in one hell of a mess.,Child poverty, unemployment, health system in chaos the list so long its scary. But not only that ,the fact is that not only are their policies a disaster but they are so incompetent that they are unable to even run them properly. They are a total lose and all we can discuss is LP leadership . I fume in anger and dispair. Wake up Labourites another 3 years of this rabble would be disasterious .Dont be sucked in by Crosby /Textor and Tory scandal mongering.
    Lets show some solidarity from us and the unions in supporting Andrew Little who is proving to be the natural succesor to our Helen.

  13. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 13

    Corby mania unabated:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34100741

    • swordfish 13.1

      Blair “says he accepts that, together with fellow Labour veterans Neil Kinnock and Gordon Brown, his warnings have fallen on deaf ears and seem to have made people more likely to back Mr Corbyn.”

      Ahhh, the penny’s finally dropped, has it ?

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 13.1.1

        Actually, this is the actual thing:

        http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/29/tony-blair-labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn

        I have analysed all the different published polling and focus group evidence about Labour’s defeat, most recently the one by the BBC’s Newsnight and the one by Jon Cruddas. They all say the same. Labour lost because it was considered anti-business and too left; because people feared Ed in Downing Street with SNP support; and because he didn’t have a credible deficit reduction plan. They didn’t vote Tory because they thought he was “austerity-lite” but on the contrary because he didn’t seem committed enough to tough economic decisions.

        • BM 13.1.1.1

          Labour membership seems to consist of people who can’t or don’t want move past the 1970’s , which is why Corbyn appeals.

          The problem is that the other 99% of people who normally vote labour can’t relate to the man or what he’s pushing.

          The down side of the membership having too much say.

          • swordfish 13.1.1.1.1

            Riiiiiiiiight, so is that why the latest polls suggest Corbyn’s not only blitzing the leadership race among Labour members (likely to win in the first round), but is also the favourite among both Labour voters and the general public as a whole. Meaning: Labour voters, Ukip voters, Lib Dem voters, Green voters, SNP voters, Plaid Cymru voters…

            …It’s only among Tory voters that Andy Burnham wins, and even then Corbyn comes a close second.

            And is that why polls suggest many of his policies are strongly supported by voters ? … http://thestandard.org.nz/hard-left-corbyn-receives-public-backing-from-41-economists/#comment-1062265

            You’re out of touch with the mood of the British electorate, my little Tory provocateur.

          • Morrissey 13.1.1.1.2

            Labour membership seems to consist of people who can’t or don’t want move past the 1970’s , which is why Corbyn appeals.

            Could you explain how Jeremy Corbyn, who is striking the fear of God into the Blairite wing of the Labour Party right now in August 2015, is simultaneously in the 1970s?

            To be fair, judging from a quick perusal of your output over the years, I don’t really expect a convincing answer from you. Perhaps a Standardista with a few clues might like to explain it for us.

            • John Hislop 13.1.1.1.2.1

              Jeremy Corbyn shouldn’t be wasting his time stiking fear into the Blairite wing of the Labour Party, he should be striking it into the heart of the Tories. Just like Labour in NZ are too busy wondering who should lead them and what internal politics they should be focused on.

        • swordfish 13.1.1.2

          (Reply to Gormy’s 6pm comment)

          Tragically, that’s yet another Blair lie.

          I’ve analysed a whole swathe of UK polls conducted over the last 3 years (including the detailed breakdowns) and I can safely say that Blair’s rendition here of their findings is absolute bollocks.

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