Open mike 31/10/2012

52 comments on “Open mike 31/10/2012 ”

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1. felix 1

   31 October 2012 at 6:19 am

   Even dirty old Holmes is getting sick of the arrogance of John Key’s govt. From q+a:

   PAUL HOLMES We’d hoped to have Labour and National debating the issue, but, as I say, this government doesn’t debate other parties, apparently. I would have thought that was a part of full democratic process full stop. Which means I have to explain this to you while Lianne Dalziel leaves her chair, which she has done so effectively and carefully without injury, and the Associate Justice Minister, Chester Borrows, sneaks in.

   http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/transcript-chester-borrows-interview-5166989
   • Paul 1.1

     31 October 2012 at 7:40 am

     Holmes here at least highlights the lack of democratic discussion the govt is willing to participate in.
     John Campbell also consistently makes a point of noting their failure to turn up for interviews.
     RNZ needs to comment more pointedly on John Key’s government’s ministers’ failure to front for interviews more explicitly. It is the press’s responsibility to hold those in power ro account.
     As to the patsy interviews conducted by Marcus Lush, Rawden Christie et al, all that is clear from that is that organisations, such as TVNZ and Radio Live who run such sham interviews, cannot describe themselves as serious news outlets.
2. ianmac 2

   31 October 2012 at 8:40 am

   Jon Stephenson says the SAS are going back to Afghanistan for a revenge attack.
   John Key says they are not.
   Potential for another brain fade???
   • karol 2.1

     31 October 2012 at 8:48 am

     I haven’t heard the RNZ interview.  But it could all be in the wording:
      

     Stevenson says the new troops were there in a combat role.
      
     “I’ve been told the mission of these troops is not to gather intelligence but to help carry out the strikes or the raids on those insurgents that killed the PRT (provincial reconstruction team) in August,” he told Radio New Zealand.
      
     Key today said the claims were not true.
      
     “Completely wrong. Absolutely wrong,” he told TV3.
      
     The small group of SAS logistics and planning officers remained in Afghanistan and it was possible one or two more had joined that team.
      
     “On the ground operational people assess exactly what they need. From time to time it can vary by very small numbers. We don’t make a public statement every time they may go or not.”

      
     Stevenson is a very reliable journalist.
      
      
      
     • vto 2.1.1

       31 October 2012 at 9:25 am

       I would imagine that to be as certain in military circles as John Key denying it.

       Best hope they don’t get smacked again.
     • freedom 2.1.2

       31 October 2012 at 9:30 am

       “On the ground operational people assess exactly what they need”

       -and there it is, the precedent tag! Key can now say it appears the original decision to deploy as an intel-only unit had to be adjusted when boots hit the ground. I can hear him now ‘yeah, the SAS are akshully involved in a combat role to capture or kill those responsible for the recent deaths of New Zealand Soldiers. It was an operational decision andnah i had not heard about it but i’m relaxed the boys will do the best they can.’

       We all know our PM never sullies himself by interfering with operational matters of Government 😉
     • David H 2.1.3

       31 October 2012 at 10:02 am

       It’s the ‘possible one or two’ that is very vague, now it come’s down to National party semantics, as to what actually one or two really mean’s in John Key’s dynamic world?

       It’s okay not to comment on real operational matters. But if they have sent in a revenge/kill team into make the miscreants pay, then it becomes a whole new ball of wax. But then again we got no missile firing drones. Why else would you send them in quietly?
     • muzza 2.1.4

       31 October 2012 at 10:41 am

       The use of language such as “revenge attacks”, is of course ludicris, given that they are foreign forces occupying ME nations.

       Regardless of where the “insurgents” hail from, it reads/counds like its expected that “locals” will just sit back, be occupied and like it!
   • Vicky32 2.2

     31 October 2012 at 7:27 pm

     Jon Stephenson says the SAS are going back to Afghanistan for a revenge attack.

     I think Stephenson had credibility and Key doesn’t, so that’s that!
3. Dr Terry 3

   31 October 2012 at 8:57 am

   Oscar Wilde: “Democracy is simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.”

   That pretty well sums up National government – with the exception that “for” the people means only for the advantaged.
4. marsman 4

   31 October 2012 at 9:02 am

   A very interesting article looking at the Thatcher years and the results to date. The comments at the end of the article are also noteworthy e.g.:-

   ‘The worst Tory legacy from that era is the energy sell-off to any tom, dick or harry. Thanks to that government, our energy bills are decided by shareholders, and utility bills will forever soar with zero control; leaving people in fuel poverty and consequently needing to become welfare claimants and food banks open at alarming rates, even though they’re working.

   Now the Tories suddenly care about the cost of bills? It’s a shame the Tories didn’t care about the cost of energy bills back then…’

   http://gu.com/p/3bdfj/em
   • tc 4.1

     31 October 2012 at 9:28 am

     A bold and decisive policy would be to state that electricity will be re nationalised, eliminate the foreign landlords and all the layers of expensive governance and legal challenges to any CommComm ruling and take out the hefferndens, stiassneys etc in one move.

     Our power prices are a complete rort.

     We used to have such an option in the old FPP system on polling days on certain industries from memory. Whoever gets this right with some other socially focused policy will win a lot of votes.

     Can’t see it happening from any of this current lukewarm mob.
   • karol 4.2

     31 October 2012 at 9:41 am

     Thanks, marsman – an important article.  I lived through the late 70s and theThatcher years in London, and it was very formative in my political thinking.  IMO, Britain went from leading the western world towards the left in the 70s, to the devastation of neoliberalism in the 80s. 
      
     The author makes an interesting comment about how the most recent times tend to be the most reviled, and also about the resurection of postive things about the 70s.  And, while many paint us boomers as being complicit with neoliberalism, amongst those I knew the Thatcher government was highly unpopular. This, from the article:
      

     More quietly, generational shifts are eroding the 80s’ electoral influence. Thatcher and the changes that occurred under her were rarely overwhelmingly popular. The British Social Attitudes survey showed leftward as well as rightward trends during the 80s; her share of the vote at general elections was middling by postwar standards; and her iron majorities were in large part the products of splits and weaknesses among her opponents. Nowadays, the beneficiaries of her booms, such pivotal interest groups in the Britain of the 90s and 00s, are beginning to be rivalled politically by those too young to have taken part. To some of this economically stressed generation, the postwar world she replaced – of state paternalism and strong unions, of municipal housing and more workplace protections – looks quite appealing, which is one of the reasons the 70s are beginning to be rehabilitated.
5. marsman 5

   31 October 2012 at 9:27 am

   Replace Romnney’s name with John Key’s name in the following article. Quite disturbing.

   The Special Personality Strengths of Mitt Romney – John Wareham | Scoop News

   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1210/S00163/the-special-personality-strengths-of-mitt-romney-john-wareham.htm
   • ianmac 5.1

     31 October 2012 at 10:36 am

     Too right marsman. For example: ……this essentially sociopathic blend of charm, deceit, and ruthlessness can be extremely helpful in a colleague. The breathtaking facility with which they can lie, and their lack of compunction in so doing, makes them not only first rate manipulators, but, often, pragmatic—and effective—short-term problem-solvers, too.
     John Key sadly and Joyce as well?
     • AsleepWhileWalking 5.1.1

       31 October 2012 at 11:55 am

       ” They possess a superficial intellect that masks a stunning lack of empathy, which in turn permits the tunnel-visioned pursuit of personal goals by any means necessary.”

       Yep. It’s his psychological twin.
     • kousei 5.1.2

       31 October 2012 at 3:30 pm

       Apparently Confucius says

       “If language is not correct, then what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant, then what must be done remains undone; if this remains undone, morals and art will deteriorate; if justice goes astray, the people will stand about in helpless confusion. Hence there must be no arbitrariness in what is said. This matters above everything.”

       Pulled quote from this article http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/271-38/14267-our-words-are-our-weapons

       Definately applies to Smirkey and Romoney. Birds of a feather.

       A lie is a lie. Greed is greed. To call them anything less will not do.
6. kousei 6

   31 October 2012 at 9:46 am

   Large scale water storage/irrigation schemes and GMO and Fracking are the Nats clear agenda. The only information given significant media exposure will be evidence presented at tax and rate payers expense by narrow focused (well payed) technocrats justifying an already decided position. The reality is most of these so called experts are bought by the government and regional councils. This is no where near a level playing field.

   The implicit threat hanging over local and regional councils across the country? If you don’t head down the central governments idealogical path then we can just appoint our own ‘leaders’ to make some ‘progress’.

   If Democracy isn’t dead in this country it must certainly be in its death throes.

   Government propaganda, sound bites and corporate PR soften Joe and Jill public up for what obviously in there best interests.

   The only way to counter this may be to vote with our feet.
7. freedom 7

   31 October 2012 at 10:06 am

   http://www.itsourfuture.org.nz/cartoon-competition/

   have fun folks
   • kousei 7.1

     31 October 2012 at 10:20 am

     Great, thanks. Yes we need more satire!
8. kousei 8

   31 October 2012 at 10:24 am

   Anyone else have any tonic for a severe case of neo feudal industrial blues?
   • weka 8.1

     31 October 2012 at 12:11 pm

     I find gardening a good tonic for many ills.
     • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1

       31 October 2012 at 12:29 pm

       The Island Where People Forget to Die
       • kousei 8.1.1.1

         31 October 2012 at 12:44 pm

         I enjoyed that article immensely, thankyou. I feel better already.
       • kousei 8.1.1.2

         31 October 2012 at 1:04 pm

         I had a loved one diagnosed with cancer this morning. I didn’t know what to say to him. Its kind of serendipity the article you posted. It helped a lot. Thanks again.
         • Murray Olsen 8.1.1.2.1

           31 October 2012 at 3:19 pm

           In my experience with cancer, just being there for him is the most important thing, not what you can actually say. It’s a lot harder for our friends and loved ones to cope than it is for those of us who actually get the filthy disease. The most important thing to me is knowing that there are people around who know that I’m still alive and don’t treat me as some poor thing already half way into the grave.
       • Rogue Trooper 8.1.1.3

         31 October 2012 at 2:46 pm

         🙂 (those who are greatest among you shall become least; those who are least, great)
         groovy man.
     • kousei 8.1.2

       31 October 2012 at 12:49 pm

       I agree with that. Something about touching earth is very comforting. Also preparing food. The two are bound together. Reminds me of the Greek resturant owner on tv last night reopened his little shop after earthquake wiped him out. He talked about the smell of garlic and rosemary on his fingers, made him feel alive again.
9. Dave 9

   31 October 2012 at 10:36 am

   As the UK reels in the aftermath of the Savile revelations and revokes the awards of paedophiles, at the same time St John New Zealand are to award two known paedophiles, to be presented by the Governor General

   [lprent: Link removed – it is either defamatory and/or needs to go to police. But it will not be allowed on the site because it opens us up to unwanted defamation cases. ]
   • AsleepWhileWalking 9.1

     31 October 2012 at 12:14 pm

     Thanks for this information.

     CYFS employed a counsellor using NLP [deleted] to treat children when he was under investigation for sexually exploiting a client. There were two different clients, but the cases appear virtually identical. Both had backgrounds of sexual abuse in their childhood and both were severely affected. Both cases also appear to have had subsidies of some kind to allow the low income clients treatment.

     How much money was spent by the government on [deleted] so he could sexually exploit clients and knowingly cause them harm?
     Why is CYFS using government money to pay for NLP (not clinically proven or accepted)?
     Why does CYFS pay a counsellor such as the one in the story above who clearly has so many issues herself if she fails to recognise NZ Law?
     Is she qualified in criminal law and therefore is giving legal advice to children? Did CYFS pay for this as well?
     How is it that anyone who promotes underage sex is paid in anyway shape or form to “treat” children of sexual preditors?

     I say pull the funding from these bitches. The government should not pay for this type of highly unethical treatment.

     The weakness is their funding as the counselling industry obtains tens of millions in subsidies each year.

     [lprent: ditto. ]
     • AsleepWhileWalking 9.1.1

       31 October 2012 at 9:14 pm

       Cool, my first edited post :m

       FYI his name is in the media as he was found guilty as hell by the HDC (Health and Disabilities Commissioner).
10. Uturn 10

    31 October 2012 at 11:56 am

    It is the last day of October and Henri, the existentialist cat, addresses the meaningless celebration of Halloween:
11. Draco T Bastard 11

    31 October 2012 at 12:18 pm

    And Campbell’s latest scoop:

    Campbell Live has an exclusive story about a road of national significance, which is not as significant as we’ve all been led to think.
12. insider 12

    31 October 2012 at 1:48 pm

    An even bigger ‘scoop’ Draco, Cameron Slater the new editor of ‘The Truth’ newspaper…

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/10/announcement-whaleoil-appointed-editor-of-truth/
    • King Kong 12.1

      31 October 2012 at 1:59 pm

      That is brilliant. I haven’t laughed that hard in ages.
      • Treetop 12.1.1

        31 October 2012 at 3:58 pm

        What I find the most funniest is that no political article is likely to be balanced in the Truth. The Truth is just another avenue for Slater to throw his weight about.
    • Draco T Bastard 12.2

      31 October 2012 at 2:08 pm

      Is that really a ‘scoop’ though – the slimy crustacean has been trying to edit truth for a while now.

      or, as Lew put it on twitter:

      Ian Wishart has got to be worried about the competition.
    • karol 12.3

      31 October 2012 at 2:43 pm

      And bomber says he’s resigned as a columnist.
    • Lightly 12.4

      31 October 2012 at 3:20 pm

      check out the website. They have the numbers of hits on the articles showing. All well below a hundred. When you think how many of those hits will be bots…. it’s like a ghost-town.
      • felix 12.4.1

        1 November 2012 at 8:11 am

        That’s ok, Cameron has his own way of “counting” page views which should have those numbers going through the roof in no time.
    • Murray Olsen 12.5

      31 October 2012 at 3:22 pm

      I wonder how long it will take for him to get Truth sued to death? Not long, I hope.
13. aerobubble 13

    31 October 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Oh, please, your sport is racked with drug taking, collectively
    needing distraction, like a media gold rush to distort the
    context, what a gift then, a man who over came testicular
    cancer, a man who may easily justify their own survival
    as a necessity, and so manufacture in themselves forgiveness
    for their own widely alleged drug taking. Would cycling have been
    free of drugs by now, had there not be a Lance Armstrong?
    Would we be in a better world, had there not be a Margaret
    Thatcher? Would the middle east now be mired, had there not
    be George Bush junior?
14. Dave 14

    31 October 2012 at 2:50 pm

    The Standard has deleted my link in the posting above. It is not defamatory because it is true. It has been to the police many times, most recently last month.
    The names of the St John men are already in the public domain, having appeared in print in this national magazine here [deleted]

    [lprent: We don’t allow public accusations about alleged criminal offenses without an actual conviction to be on the site unless we’ve looked at it ourselves and actually intend to have it published here in the public interest. In this instance I can see several previous investigations by the relevant authorities without conviction.

    Ian Wishart isn’t exactly someone I have much respect for. I’ve observed him shaving the facts several times in his articles and public speeches to fit his prejudices – for me most notably implicit accusations about my partner. But what he chooses to publish is his choice. Bearing in mind his known bigotries and biases it is usually unlikely to be similar to our choices.

    We do allow considerable latitude for speculation about politicians in the public interest and with the previous defamation case law supporting our position. But don’t mistake that for a licence to do the same for non-political or non-public figures. ]
    • Dave 14.1

      31 October 2012 at 6:47 pm

      According to your “standards”, the Jimmy Savile story would have remained covered up – he was also not convicted. In the St John ambulance case, I have provided a printed national magazine, a printed press release, and evidence that the victims parents and brothers were gagged in order to hide these child sex crimes. Your action is similar – you also choose to hide these child sex crimes. Your personal feelings for Ian Wishart should not lead you to be complicit in hiding child sex crimes. FYI – this saga will be presented by a UK MP to the House of Commons either later this week or early next week – some New Zealanders may choose to hide these atrocities, but the rest of the world does not.

      [lprent: In case you hadn’t noticed, this is a political blog site orientated to analysis and opinions of political issues from the left and union movements.

      We aren’t the police, a general purpose newspaper or other media outlet, a site dedicated to legal issues, or even a gossip site. We simply don’t report, opine, or even allow the kind of thing that Wishart or Whaleoil specialize in. We’re not hiding anything. We have little or no interest in something that doesn’t look either political or to do with unions. We certainly don’t want to go out on a legal limb for it.

      If you have finished with Wishart, then can I suggest a new opportunity – try Whaleoil at The New Zealand Truth ]
      • Dave 14.1.1

        31 October 2012 at 8:38 pm

        Covering up child sex crimes not a political issue? Our NZ Head of State presenting awards to known paedophiles not a political issue? Most in the world would consider this to go across the spectrum and be of relevance to the left, right, and centre. According to this page, Afganistan, fracking, drugs in sport, and a storm are all part of the agenda, but not child sex crimes. Perhaps it is the heinous deeds of a high profile lefty exposed in this story that you wish to avoid.

        [lprent: So far I haven’t seen anything that indicates that there is any kind of a coverup – which would be of interest. To expand….

        I suspect that an alternate hypothesis of obsessive parent(s) detirmined that their view is the only one is far more likely. That was my impression reading your exhaustive link this morning. I suspect that was also the conclusion of many other people and organizations from te police to the family court who have already looked at this case since 2006.

        I’ve been on the losing side in family court action, helped deal with quite a few troubled teens from the extended family with difficult relationships with their parents, and have a skeptical relationship with the police. Your description of the process tallys with what I have seen. However your explanations about how you view the people does not tally with anything I have ever observed.

        I have also dealt with numerous people with obsessions with both this blog and other political volunteer work. You seem to me to fit the profile quite closely. Certainly the vast conspiracy required for your view to work seems highly unlikely. Occams razor seems to apply.

        But as I said earlier, there does not appear to be a political issue. This discussion is over. ]
        • Dave 14.1.1.1

          31 October 2012 at 9:35 pm

          You have now used 3 different reasons for removing my link: (1) the link is defamatory, (2) it is not a political issue, and now (3) obsessive parents. Did you read the entire document, as the huge number of experts quoted in appendix do not share your view of obsessive parents? When the link was posted, there was a flurry of downloads from your readers, they are obviously keen to read it – why don’t you just allow the link and let your readers make up their own minds? This would be a more mature approach rather than trying to manipulate the agenda.

          [lprent: The first was a statement of fact – much of the document was likely to be defamatory (only a court could determine that). The second was a reason why we wouldn’t be interested in taking a risk of a suit after you said that we should ignore the defamatory aspects because it was already published (which makes no real difference under defamation law anyway). The third was my personal take on it based on my experience and your behaviour to explain why I wasn’t interested in overriding policy.

          A flurry? According to the figures on who clicked through on that first link, I did at least a tenth of them.

          Get your “experts” to put it up on their blogs – don’t use ours. And I’d suggest that you review using the dumbarse tactics you just used in this comment. All it does on blogs is annoy the operators.

          The answer is no. You now have a ban on writing comments because you are wasting my time by not understanding that. ]
          • Dave 14.1.1.1.1

            31 October 2012 at 11:26 pm

            [deleted – usual crap about gagging]
            Are you not doing a similar thing by banning me – after one post!
            [deleted – and somehow equating me to the whole of the left.. *sigh* so predictable ]

            [lprent: No. I have spent time reading your links. I have written notes on 5 comments where I have carefully explained this site’s reason why you cannot use this site to publish a link. Each of these explanations takes time for me to write.

            You have now run out of the time and patience I am willing to expend on a single commentator in moderator mode. You have shown no ability to learn or change your behaviour on this site, and I can’t see any real possibility that you are capable of doing so. I am not willing to waste any more of my limited time repeating the same message to someone who is clearly too inflexible to listen to it. It can be more constructively used for the benefit of the others amongst our daily thousands of readers and hundreds of commentators.

            Despite what you appear to think, we owe you no duty nor obligation. And as you may have realized, I feel no need to be polite. Bye. ]
15. kiwicommie 15

    31 October 2012 at 5:16 pm

    Another blogger was right on the mark with this pic, it is what I am reminded of too when I see such bigotry and hatred of homosexuals: http://laudafinem.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/kkk-edited.jpg
16. joe90 16

    31 October 2012 at 6:33 pm

    The New Yorker on Republican attempts so suppress voters with the myth of voter fraud.

    Republicans who support tighter voter security say that they are not seeking political advantage. But last summer Pennsylvania’s Republican House Leader, Mike Turzai, was caught on tape boasting to colleagues that the state’s new I.D. law was “going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.” Earlier this month, a state judge suspended the controversial law’s implementation until after the 2012 election; a federal court has done the same with South Carolina’s new I.D. law.

    edit: http://shiftfrequency.com/victoria-collier-how-to-rig-an-election/
17. PlanetOrphan 17

    31 October 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Fair enough LP, Y’know I think the arctic ice is gone for good, NY and the east coast should get used to it, it’s gonna be a regular feature from now on.
18. Draco T Bastard 18

    31 October 2012 at 8:54 pm

    What’s Best for Northland?

    Wow, who would of thought that the best way to get transport to improve the economy of Northland is to actually spend money on infrastructure in Northland. Of course these aren’t the first issues we have raised, the 2008 study showed there was little benefit in upgrading the route while we also showed that based on Gerry’s answers to written questions you would have to travel at up to 250kph to achieve some of the time savings that the benefits above are based on.

    As Mr Anderson said yesterday, its really time for an independent inquiry into the NZTA and transport priorities, there is just far to many issues cropping up.

    More questions raised about the pure BS that this government is forcing upon us.
19. Dave Kennedy 19

    1 November 2012 at 1:11 am

    Bill supports wealthy developer mates, shifts responsibility from his Government and ensures growth of inequities: http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/englishs-housing-solutions-lack-logic.html

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