web analytics

Out of the Loop

Written By: - Date published: 9:49 pm, March 17th, 2014 - 155 comments
Categories: same old national - Tags:

As I’ve previously pointed out, John Key’s National government only serves the privileged elite.

But their policy of only favouring the favoured few is not only venal, it’s really stupid economics as well.

The reason why it’s stupid is simple Econ 101, supply and demand.

National is always quick to emphasise the supply side, the importance of looking after business. Because business is, in the eyes of National, the ‘engine of the growth’ in the economy.

You take care of the business (supply) side of the equation and everything else simply falls into place, right?

Fail.

Big fail.

What National neglects is the demand side of the equation. Without economic demand, there is no economy.

If the people in an economy have no money to spend then there will be no economic demand which means the economy won’t grow. It’s as simple as that.

We are already the most business friendly nation in the entire world. I think it’s safe to say that’s the supply side taken care of.

But 30 years of Neoliberalism has left most New Zealanders (and the rest of the Western world) in a state of economic anaemia. Kiwis are mired in debt, they have no money to spend, and therefore cannot possibly generate significant economic demand.

So what does John Key and National prescribe?

More Neoliberalism.

National’s antidote for the poison is……. more poison.

National loves going on about ‘growing the pie’ but growing the pie, ie increasing the size of the economy, is just a bad joke inside John Key’s high cost/low wage New Zealand.

To actually grow an economy, people need to have money to spend and under this government who’s got any money left to spend?

After all we’ve had…

  • Tax cuts for the rich (which worsens inequality)
  • Gutting workers rights even further (reduced family income)
  • Raising GST (shifts tax burden to those without capital gains, ie the NOT-privileged elite)
  • Flogging power companies (higher power prices, but totally worth it for the privileged elite who bought shares)
  • Failing to address the housing bubble (paying more and more for the already over-priced old houses is….pure evil)

These are just some of the really stupid things that National has done (or failed to do) which have weakened the economy and further impoverishing already debt-laden kiwis.

Gee, it’s almost as if John Key’s National doesn’t give a toss if the average kiwi has no money to generate economic demand. As long as the privileged elite, like Amy Adams can flog her milk solids to overseas buyers, and run her farms with dirt cheap kiwi workers then all is well…

We’re out of the loop.

Vote Left.

155 comments on “Out of the Loop ”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    If the people in an economy have no money to spend then there will be no economic demand which means the economy won’t grow. It’s as simple as that.

    No, it’s that the financials won’t grow. The economy is a fixed size and we have no idea what that size is.

    Raising GST (shifts tax burden to those without capital gains, ie the NOT-privileged elite poor.)

    FTFY

    What you said was contradictory and thus meaningless.

    Gee, it’s almost as if John Key’s National doesn’t give a toss if the average kiwi has no money to generate economic demand.

    They don’t and this article clearly shows what the result will be – complete societal collapse. Hmm, wonder if the economists have worked out just how much that research is death to their hypothesis.

    • Richard Christie 1.1

      It’s a sobering read, that Guardian article.

      • aerobubble 1.1.1

        Two world wars started with Germany, there was no conspiracy. Simplistically it could be argued that the ability of the political-economic complex was incapable of adapting to the change of technology and resources. Oil and automation, added to political vacuum and a populations deprived of choices who were ‘given’ their power back through extreme right wing ideology.
        And as we all know, or should, fascists are either so apathetic to follow any crude argument, or so fed up with the present political impasse that they willing agree to join a human ponsi-pyramid scheme where only the top get to abuse everyone (in the hopes they they get to the top of the zombie pyramid).

        We are again entering a period where very boring men (mostly) are incapable of dealing to the present crisis-es. Collapse in military power (brought on by Bush II invasion into stupid) as America tried to cling on to power after the end of the cold war (which actually meant keeping profits of military, finance and media going). Anyone can now compete with the standing armies, all they need are cheap drones, network hackers… (etc).

        Yeah, so, sorry, to the point, of course Key is out of the loop, the Thatcher revolution was all about taking government out of the picture. Key, hopefully, is the last of those who deal themselves out of the govt, serving some ideological nirvana of free markets at the cost of even common sense.

        As for stupid. Why would we believe growth is key to our success. Growth is just a number and over throttling is just as dangerous as under throttling. Eating several earths is as stupid as communist central control. Its dangerous to target growth more when resources, population, pollution, debt, aging, all start going into the danger zone.

        The problem is the inability of tories to admit defeat and retire, they lost and clinging on just makes them look sad.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 1.2

      Hang about DTB,

      The article you link to places a huge importance in the role of wealth disparity in the part of the downfall of society – whereas you link to the article to argue against Geoff’s point on just that.

      … are you simply being argumentative for argument’s sake?

      From the article you linked to:

      These factors can lead to collapse when they converge to generate two crucial social features: “the stretching of resources due to the strain placed on the ecological carrying capacity”; and “the economic stratification of society into Elites [rich] and Masses (or “Commoners”) [poor]” These social phenomena have played “a central role in the character or in the process of the collapse,” in all such cases over “the last five thousand years.”

      Currently, high levels of economic stratification are linked directly to overconsumption of resources, with “Elites” based largely in industrialised countries responsible for both…”

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        whereas you link to the article to argue against Geoff’s point on just that.

        I have NFI where you got that from. Geoff said:

        it’s almost as if John Key’s National doesn’t give a toss…

        To which I replied that they don’t and that’s it that not giving a fuck about anybody but themselves that will bring about the collapse of society and probably the environment.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 1.2.1.1

          @ DTB

          “No, it’s that the financials won’t grow. The economy is a fixed size and we have no idea what that size is.”

          I’m sorry have I misunderstood this part of your comment?

          • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.1

            I was pointing out that there’s a difference between finances and economics and why the financials shouldn’t continue to grow as it really does take us into the over-use of resources that the article tells us brings about collapse.

            I’m all for being far more egalitarian but we also need to exist within the physical limits of the economy/environment and just giving more money to the people at the bottom won’t bring that about.

            • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Yes, that is fairly well where I thought you were coming from.

              The article also put forward the case that having some with extreme wealth over many others pushes this process of resource depletion forward – that technology has made efficiency gains (efficient of resource use) – yet elites soak up this gain by extra consumerism

              “Currently, high levels of economic stratification are linked directly to overconsumption of resources, with “Elites” based largely in industrialised countries responsible for both”

              That if society was more financially equitable:

              a) the process of resource depletion would slow
              b) more importantly: those making the rules would be less buffered to the effects of their own destructive actions and would be more receptive to improving the structures so that unsustainable resource depletion didn’t occur.

              I.e until there is less wealth disparity it is unlikely a change in the elites’ attitudes toward growth and profits will occur because those in positions of power are the same people pushing those attitudes and they are the same group not experiencing the detrimental effects of such mistaken thinking.

              On rereading this article it may be that all of us in NZ might come under the definition of elite – unsure about the definition of who are the elite?

              • Draco T Bastard

                That if society was more financially equitable:

                a) the process of resource depletion would slow
                b) more importantly: those making the rules would be less buffered to the effects of their own destructive actions and would be more receptive to improving the structures so that unsustainable resource depletion didn’t occur.

                A) Not a good assumption. If everyone had enough money to demand excess resource use then excess resource depletion would still happen. That’s why it’s important for everyone to know what resources we have at a sustainable rate. The “market” doesn’t provide this information and the profit motive of the “elite” will drive us to excess resource use through a) their own excessive resource use and b) trying for ever more sales to drive up their profits.
                B) Possibly but I’m more inclined to think that the “elite” will just push for higher productivity from everyone else so as to increase that buffer that protects them from the negative consequences of their actions.

                unsure about the definition of who are the elite?

                The “elite” are the ones calling the shots – government and business leaders (which excludes the self-employed, small businesses and the general populace – see TPPA processes).

      • Richard Christie 1.2.2

        It read to me to me that Draco is agreeing with the observation made about the caring nature of Dishonest John’s Govt.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 1.2.2.1

          Yes, I read that too – it was the first sentence (the one that started with ‘no’) that I was questioning.

      • aerobubble 1.2.3

        Build another road, increases number, size and speed of vehicles into built up areas, slowing down traffic, increasing pollution and pushing adaptive industries out to clean fill sprawl. How does increasing the costs, time, petrol, infrastructure supposed to be efficient. Its not. Its about doing what worked when there were year on year drops in energy costs, when politicians (life ultimate cheapskates) manage (with media alliances) to sell the absurd (that their actions, policies, ideology was creating growth, not a bunch of greedy arab princlings who found black gold under their sandy front room floor).

        Take welfare, why are the poorest (those with most motivation to change) forced by the state (taxes) to take income support that stops them (70% marginal taxes) from using their free time to give back to the community (and so network, experience and so expose themselves to possibilities and so see and seize on opportunities). Why? well because stressing how those who already work for too little, or overpaid by far too much, how they could lose everything they work for, pressing the button on fear of change, has become lifeblood for the media. And so by locking out a share of the population from work, enough work, or living wage work, the economy will be saved. How I ask, by driving up the cost of labor, by increasing churn of employees, of breeding a generation of workers peeing in the bake beans (fed up with their lot).

        No, its not a return to religion we need. Its just churning out those who pander to negatives. Benefit bashing. Or Labor response, diverting.

    • Kahukowhai 1.3

      Why do you think the NSA is gearing up their spy networks, in order to prevent that collapse a police state will be imposed first. It can be done in a way that was never possible in ancient times. Russia and China went that way and China especially has prospered – their societies didn’t collapse as such they just continued under totalitarianism.

  2. adam 2

    So the next step is indentured servitude – I mean if the poor can’t pay their way then maybe they should have their freedom taken off them. That those who can pay their way, should have all the privileges and the rights. Who cares that in all probability, they inherited it, that just goes to show there a better type of people.

    My goodness this is the natural solution to all the problems of liberalism and why it is failing so bad. If we didn’t have an uppity poor – who wanted stuff – like houses, food, education, health care, a better future for their kids. We could keep them oppressed and downtrodden, and curb their ambition. It’s the damn aspirational stuff of the working classes which is holding us back.

    This is what is meant by supply side economics. The future you know you can love, if you’re part of the elite.

    • geoff 2.1

      Well I’d like to be optimistic and say the next step is to vote this cretinous Key and his band of plundering plonkers out of government!

      • Stuart Munro 2.1.1

        Failing which NZ will see the kind of skirmishing that characterized south american fascist regimes – kidnapping, death squads, an underground along the lines of sendero luminoso and vasts increases in random acts of senseless violence. When cows become preferred terrorist targets the right will slowly begin to realise that they can’t f**k over the people indefinitely.

  3. Richard Christie 3

    .So the next step is indentured servitude – I mean if the poor can’t pay their way then maybe they should have their freedom taken off them.

    No need, just keep them well supplied with more lotto, sports arenas, reality TV, cooking shows, casinos, cheap Chinese DIY gear and a TVNZ news service.

    Despite what the aforementioned Guardian article predicts, the scam has years of life to run yet.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 3.1

      er…Richard Christie…sorry I have bad news for you …the bit Adam said about ‘taking the freedom off the poor’….it wasn’t a prediction – it is a process that has well and truly started already….

      And any government that follows policies that ensure a percentage of us don’t have jobs or don’t have jobs that cover living costs or, while being on welfare can hardly be said to be ‘freedom’, creating rules to make it easier to boot people off welfare when there are no jobs cannot be said to be a policy that is creating more freedom…such governments are perpetuating this taking of freedom from a percentage of us because such policies create poverty.

      I agree though, that such devices as you mentioned serve to keep those with a bit more than nothing pacified.

      • Macro 3.1.1

        It wasn’t the peasants who begun the French Revolution, it was the bourgeois, the traders and the middle classes who saw that their position was continually being eroded by the elite.
        Those who neglect their history – and those who live solely for the present generally do (the elite amongst them) – are destined to repeat it.
        We have seen the beginnings of it in Greece and eventually if things continue the way they are, it will happen again here. Eventually people will have enough and the result will not be pretty.

        • greywarbler 3.1.1.1

          Didn’t Marx foresee that it was inevitable that the poor would rise and protest and break the class system and claim their fair share? And they didn’t.

          It takes a very clear head to voluntarily throw away the little one has in the hope of a better future. Especially if you have children. If you are forced into doing so by disaster then its TINA, no choice. Usually they need to have helpers, either at the beginning. or willing to support and aid during the process which can be unpleasant.

          • Macro 3.1.1.1.1

            The poor have neither the resources nor the organisational networks. What made the French Revolution “successful” was the organisational skills of the middle class. The were sick of being constantly screwed by the elite. I think that we are not far away (in historical terms) from similar reactions today. Just what the form of reaction will be I do not know. But those who currently give themselves obscene bonuses and live extravagant lifestyles obviously at the expense of others should remember what happened at the end of the 18th C.

    • tc 3.2

      Yes its boiling frogs, by the time people wake up it will be too late.

      Its the middle sector who think theyve got it sussed by leveraging their way to multiple properties thinking theyll be fine…..till demand dies and they discover the health, education etc has all been smashed along with nz and essential utilities sold off.

  4. PhilDC 4

    I always remember a piece of graffiti a water pipe on TiRakau Drive – long since painted over and fenced off to prevent another repeat spraying. I once delivered milk in that area(thats how long ago it was).
    it was burned into my brain seeing it everyday.

    “Prices rise and profits hop. Pay stays low so buying stops. Goods wont sell so workers sacked, dont look now depressions back – workers unite to protect wages and conditions.”

    Still as true today as it was back then.

  5. Matthew Hooton 5

    How do you reconcile your claim that John Key’s government serves only the privileged elite, when two-thirds of people want him to remain prime minister?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11221487

    • Te Reo Putake 5.1

      Bread, circuses and royal visits.

      • Matthew Hooton 5.1.1

        That’s a very patronising attitude you have towards two-thirds of your fellow citizens.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1

          What, as opposed to your relentless manufactured dishonesty for sale, you rancid hypocrite?

        • risildowgtn 5.1.1.2

          and the way u tory scum treat the common man on the street is disgusting and mark my words scum, you will be held accountable

        • kenny 5.1.1.3

          That’s two-thirds of a Herald DIGI-POLL respondents (laugh), clearly not 2/3rds of NZ voters.

        • Tracey 5.1.1.4

          Surely it is not patronising to say that the massaged message put together by those who understand about hot buttons and subliminal messaging and can afford to pay for the best (Crosby Textor, as opposed to Excelcium (altho I am sure you are not cheap matthew)) are working by making someone popular who is actually doing nothing for the majority or is harming them? That is a fact and one which makes your services wanted by some?

          Next you will say advertising doesn’t work.

        • Mark 5.1.1.5

          Matthew, last poll for preferred prime minister had John Key at 39%. And that is 39% of the 70% of New Zealanders who took part. Land line polls are excluding 13% of the population and 17% of the respondents in the last poll wouldn’t give a preference. I live in Christchurch and 39% is a thing of the past down here. I am a former Nat member and even I acknowledge the party is going to get its arse kicked down here. Key is now a liability in this town.

        • geoff 5.1.1.6

          How is it patronising?

      • Anne 5.1.2

        @Te Teo Putake

        Add to that, John Key’s top drawer and extreme dirty politics.

        A sad indictment on a large bunch of voters who can’t tell the difference between reality/truth and fiction/lies. They only work because said bunch of voters are stupid and ignorant.

        Right Hooton? You should know because you’re one of those who peddle the myths, lies and obfuscations.

    • RT 5.2

      Exactly the question I was going to ask! The replies are telling.

    • Tom Gould 5.3

      Indeed, this post is illustrative of how far the pseudo-intellectual left have their heads in the clouds, while just about everyone else, if the polls are indicative, seem fairly happy with where Key is leading them. It’s almost as if they know ‘trickle down’ was a con job, and they have moved on, maybe years ago?

      Discount the National Herald poll which was taken precisely to coincide with the Tory-orchestrated assassination attack on Cunliffe’s character.

      • Anne 5.3.1

        … Herald poll which was taken precisely to coincide with the Tory-orchestrated assassination attack on Cunliffe’s character.

        +1 Tom Gould. My immediate reaction too. This is the poll that always – I repeat always – over estimates National’s ratings. Digi-Poll would deny it, but they know what is expected of them and they deliver the result at exactly the right time. Don’t put it past their political masters to give them a heads-up as to the date they are to start polling – following the latest manufactured scandal. Conspiracy? No way. It’s common knowledge that’s the way the “Tories” operate.

      • Melb 5.3.2

        “Discount the National Herald poll which was taken precisely to coincide with the Tory-orchestrated assassination attack on Cunliffe’s character.”

        This is real head-in-the-clouds stuff. +111 for imagination.

        The Herald poll was taken a month after the last Herald poll, which was also taken a month after the previous one. If you think long and hard about it, you may start to notice a pattern. The editors don’t just sit around around and suddenly say “oi, you know, what! Let’s do some polling today!”

        The timing of the Cunliffe trust stories came from the deadline of having to file the pecuniary returns. It was a point of interest to see who had funded the leadership challengers, and even more interesting that Cunliffe had chosen to hide his secret big-business crony money-men with a trust.

        Though the piece that Paddy Gower did about Cunliffe’s older trust was pretty average, and likely to be National putting the boot in while Cunliffe was down.

        As an aside, wouldn’t the moniker Tory (Traditional Conservatism) be far more applicable to Colin Craig and his ilk?

        • Anne 5.3.2.1

          The Herald poll was taken a month after the last Herald poll, which was also taken a month after the previous one. If you think long and hard about it, you may start to notice a pattern.

          Yep. there’s a pattern alright. Sometimes they’re monthly, sometimes they’re not – or maybe they don’t bother to report some of them in non election years. It’s monthly now because the election is close. You lack the insight to see the politically biased patterns in the Digi-Poll? Perhaps I put it the wrong way around:

          Somebody rings Hooton/Slater/whoever… we’re sending you our latest attack story on Cunliffe. Don’t print until such and such a date. Herald says next poll due to start one week later.

          I’m not saying that is exactly how it happens, but do you get the picture Mr Clever Boy/Girl?

    • vto 5.4

      It is entirely about rising house prices, nothing else…..

    • thatguynz 5.5

      Does that include the million people that didn’t vote Matthew? Surely that is the absolute epitome of disinterest, apathy or loss of hope is it not?

      • Matthew Hooton 5.5.1

        There are not a million people who didn’t vote. But even of the nearly 800,000 who didn’t vote in 2011, you are wrong if you assume they are all left-leaning, lacking hope etc.

        • geoff 5.5.1.1

          True. Many of them are probably traditional National supporters who have given up in disgust that their party has been captured by the corporates.

          Traditional National party supporters aren’t all as dumb as you think they are, Matthew.

        • thatguynz 5.5.1.2

          Fair point – I’ll acknowledge your 800k correction. I did however not mention “left-leaning” so they’re your words, not mine. So back to the question.. If they are not disinterested, apathetic or lacking in hope, what is your view as to why they didn’t vote?

    • Ennui 5.6

      Because Matthew most of those two thirds are one hell of a lot more privileged than those below them and they don’t want the party to end. This is all comparative, however if you were to try and live like the bottom third you wouldn’t enjoy it much!

      Of course you could try and be a little bit imaginative and think about the bad tempers and blame game that might occur should the markets take a dive (lets face it the world exchanges are at unprecedented and extreme highs..based upon f.a…read Galbraith and you might get the picture of what happens next). Or any number of more and more likely events that might send the repo agents around to reclaim the new shiny SUV as the money goes west.

      So Matt, yes the bloated fat cats that we “middle classes” are (consuming well beyond our means to repay on credit and unsustainable salaries) might just end up becoming plebian voters (probably will is more likely). With bad attitudes like anybody thrown out from the party.

    • geoff 5.7

      Matthew Hooton, do you believe that poll result is accurate?

    • adam 5.8

      Matthew, Matthew you cervical creation of the elites. You propaganda is a vial veil – that us scum from the poorest of the poor, are seeing as the lie that it is. The manipulation of the masses is an affair which has been running for almost a hundred years now. I thought you’d better understand that tool of corporations and the elites dear boy (or are they not letting you in). You distractions into the lies of the propaganda machine are stale, as they are old. Matthew lie to yourself, that I can live with – but stop lying to us

    • aerobubble 5.9

      We keep being told by media his polls are so very very high. And the polling? Well it panders to parties not principles, issues, or ideals. When asked is Key doing a good job, geez, when government does nothing, does not believe in govt of course he’s doing an excellent job… …hence high polling for Key.

      Set the metric so low, flip it upside down, and then the more, longer stupid lasts the more credible and successful said metrics make fools of us all.

      Are we really better off? are we as adaptive as we were? are we better able to meet our expectations?
      How can you say yes? oil will continue to cost more, we will continue to mis-adapt by continued sprawl of cities and upside down inside out ideologies that hate govt yet want to retain govt…

      Will our kids be better off. No.

    • Kahukowhai 5.10

      As the others say it is based on illusion. John Key for example didn’t tell people when they voted in 2008 that he was going to abuse parliamentary process to rush through a whole lot of new laws under urgency, including bringing in National Standards which no one knew was coming. He didn’t campaign on diverting obscene amounts of money from around the country into a handful of expensive and unnecessary highways in cities, or stealing water resources for the dairy farmers so they could pollute the rivers, or driving people off welfare rolls even if they were unable to work. I’ve got a sister who is mentally ill and the only thing keeping her sane right now is that she qualifies for the DPB and therefore has not got Winz hounding her day and night to get a crap job which she couldn’t do as she gets stressed out too easily but all that matters to the Minister is making the numbers look good. John Key didn’t campaign on slashing hundreds or thousands of low paid jobs out of the public sector throwing more people onto the dole queues did he? Or on putting huge 62 ton trucks onto narrow twisting highways which they will pound to pieces and where oncoming drivers are at real and serious risk of coming off second best as these vehicles will swing well over the centre line on curves so sharp that the recommended speed is only 45 km/h.

      And that 67% does not mean a lot as it does not translate into 67% of the votes, it’s extremely unlikely National will ever win that percentage of votes in a general election, or anything like any simple majority. So the preferred prime minister number does not mean a lot at all.

    • McFlock 5.11

      Doesn’t it concern you that only 3/4 people who want key to be prime minister can stomach his policies enough to vote for his party? Or any of its likely coalition allies?

      And doesn’t it concern you that if the polls are biased towards the nactoids by even a few percent, the he’d need peters to get the government benches again?

  6. drongo 6

    If so, how come Key’s government is this popular?
    http://yournz.org/2014/02/09/poll-margin-of-error-explained/

    Latest NZ Herald Digipoll:
    – National 50.8% (up 4 from Dec 2013)
    – Labour 29.5% (down 5.9)
    – Greens 13.1% (up 2.3)
    – NZ First 3.6% (down 0.3)
    – Conservative 1.3% (no change)
    – Act 0.8% (up 0.8%)
    – Other 0.5% (up 0.1)
    – Maori 0.2% (down 1.1)
    – Mana 0.1% (up 0.1)
    – Undecided 11.4%

    • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1

      It isn’t. The National Party never gets the electoral support its polling suggests.

    • Craig Glen Eden 6.2

      Very simple drongo we have a biased media that keeps repeating Key’s good news spin. The people I speak to are struggling to make ends meet are asking where are these poll numbers coming from and as for the economy being in growth mode pppffftttttt.

    • risildowgtn 6.3

      and on all these polls i say bullshit

      pure bullshit

      fuk the way you lot go on and on and on and on its as though you have 30 seat majority over the LEFT, you have 1
      yeah 1
      1
      1
      1
      1
      1
      1 🙂

      have a great day

      • Rosie 6.3.1

        Statement of the day risildowgtn. +1.

        And it’s a shakey “one” seat at that eh.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 6.3.1.1

          +1 I second that Rosie – excellent point Risildowgtn

    • RJL 6.4

      drongo: If so, how come Key’s government is this popular?

      The inability of Labour to effectively communicate why they are a better option, to the individuals that were polled.

      You can decide for yourself whether this is because a) Labour is not the better option, b) Labour cannot articulate their position properly, or c) Pro-National / Anti-Labour spin has fooled the polled individuals.

      You can also decide for yourself whether or not the polled individuals (plus any “bias” corrections applied to the poll) are representative or not of the general population.

      • George D 6.4.1

        Labour doesn’t look like Government.

        Shane Jones isn’t helping.

        • RJL 6.4.1.1

          Of course, equally, National doesn’t look much like Government. So that doesn’t seem to be an impediment in and of itself.

    • woodpecker 6.5

      Hammer Labour with made up bull shit in the media, then do a poll. Any guesses how it will turn out?
      Also did you see the 11.4% undecided?

    • Tracey 6.6

      you get that 50.8 is not SO popular, it’s a slim majority?

      you get that companies pay billions of dollars on advertising (including subliminal messaging and dishonesty) because it works to convince people that their true desire may not be one that serves them well?

      • Bob Square Pants 6.6.1

        They could poll @ 90% and you’d still post the same crap.

        • Tracey 6.6.1.1

          if they polled 90% I would not be posting that 90% is a slim majority.

          you still think collins didnt breach the cabinet manual dont you’

          cos that popular mr key told you so.

    • veutoviper 6.7

      Interesting that Drongo links to YourNZ, not the Herald reports on their Digipoll results. YourNZ is none other than Pete George’s blog site. Remember him – now the “impartial” editor of Politicheck …..

    • Mark 6.8

      At least you got your moniker right. Polls as they are presently done are a joke. No cellphones polled and a double digit no response along with the margin of error means you may as well throw a dart at the board. I belonged to the National Party for a long period but have drifted away after the disaster of the Christchurch rebuild. I don’t think I could vote for Labour but The Nats are not getting my vote thats for sure. Key’s popularity in Christchurch has been severely damaged by the rebuild chaos and Parata’s incompetence.The Nats are going to get a mauling in Christchurch and they deserve it.

      • Kahukowhai 6.8.1

        +1

        CERA especially CCDU is all about strangling the city council, look at what they are still keeping Ecan firmly under their thumb, and the commissioners have been told to run down the Ecan reserves to the bottom of the barrel so the farmers don’t have to pay any rate increases, meanwhile the water theft plan keeps on rolling along just nicely, even if the zone committees cannot agree on anything they have no power to stop the implementation.

  7. One Anonymous Bloke 7

    The National Party’s milk companies can sell to Chinese consumers. Who cares about demand in NZ?

  8. JanM 8

    “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him someone to look down on and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Lyndon Johnson.
    And pretending you know nothing about this phenomenon is very disingenuous, Matthew Hooten

    • RedLogix 8.1

      Oh how very, very true. Johnson was a remarkable figure in American politics. Much underestimated over the years.

    • Tracey 8.2

      Bravo

      It’s how Mr HootOn makes his money. By peddling the myths and meme planting, truth is irrelevant.

    • Tracey 8.3

      who would suspect that lyndon had met bob square pants?

  9. TightyRighty 9

    you haven’t proven that people in the economy have no money to spend? just repeating lame meme’s that tax cuts for the rich (earn over $70k a year? feel rich?) and that the assets are being sold (if you own more than 51% of something, you own it) doesn’t magik the money out of peoples pay packets.

    Try again geoffy

    • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1

      Personal tax and GST receipts not matching Treasury’s The National Party’s propaganda is a fair indicator.

      • TightyRighty 9.1.1

        at least 47%, and up to 54.6% of the population voting for the government that the tired old meme’s are supposed to be attacking and bringing down because the voting populace don’t have money in their pocket? that’s a fair indicator too. gst is a consumption tax. it’ll be interesting to see what people saved instead of spent with the certain rise in interest rates on the horizon. personal tax take down on projections could mean a number of things. that projections were a little bit overstated maybe? it certainly doesn’t mean people are poorer.

        • Tracey 9.1.1.1

          Do you agree that most economists accept that a tax cut to the top bracket during a recession does not stimulate an economy while tax cuts lower down the pile do?

          Do you agree that if the bottom tax rate is cut, that ALL tax payers benefit because of how our tiered system works?

          • TightyRighty 9.1.1.1.1

            I don’t agree with your first assertion as most economists agree that a tax cut, at any time, let alone a recession, stimulates the economy more through private enterprise than the government can using higher taxes and higher spending.

            your second assertion is plainly correct. i’ve always argued for a tax free threshold as opposed to welfare to those in work. so whats your point? the msm don’t report that this is the case and are therefore stupid for not reporting it as you want?

            • TightyRighty 9.1.1.1.1.1

              i must have been busy as i missed the blatant logic leap in your statements. if the top statement is false then then the bottom statement must be true, and vice versa. good work tracey.

            • Tracey 9.1.1.1.1.2

              can you post your source for your first assertion. i keep finding research and data which ssuggests that tax cuts to the rich dont positively impact growth.

              In the last 50 years there were 5 tax cuts to the rich. Three of them were followed by a decline in GDP growth, 3 were followed by a decline in employment growth. The evidence suggests that tax cuts do not promote growth and probably promote decline.

              http ://conceptualmath.org/philo/taxgrowth.htm

              • TightyRighty

                can you post your source for the assertion you made in your first question? you’ve found “all this research” (btw conceptual math looks like an early 90s conceptual html website, and it’s hypothesis is rather weak, based on a tangetal equation that wouldn’t stand up to real life situations) so it should be a doddle for you to provide.

                How about the tax increases, as tax cuts start from a point too, what decline in capital investment followed their introduction? i could argue the raising of the tax rate to 38% on the dollar for income over $60k by the labour government led to property speculation as it incurred no capital gains tax and the flow of money to the middle class via wff increased income streams, enabling higher mortgages?

                No you try argue something properly…

                • Tracey

                  So I have to continue to prove my argument and you just get to say “I know you are but what am I?”

                  ” i could argue the raising of the tax rate to 38% on the dollar for income over $60k by the labour government led to property speculation as it incurred no capital gains tax and the flow of money to the middle class via wff increased income streams, enabling higher mortgages” Source? Otherwise you are not arguing you are writing an opinion with no factual basis that you have proven.

            • Macro 9.1.1.1.1.3

              Bullshit! Plain and utter bullshit! Everything you spout from here on in is just that – utter crap!
              You say you have some knowledge of economics..
              Well almost your every utterance proves otherwise. You may be repeating some of the myths of neo – liberalism – but any understanding of what an economy is, and how it works, is completely beyond your comprehension.

        • Tracey 9.1.1.2

          what do you think the projections are based on?

          Makes you wonder why the government keeps using average wage rather than median though.

          • TightyRighty 9.1.1.2.1

            projections are based on many things. also, being projections they make assumptions about human behaviour, often invoking ceterus paribus. David Cunliffe was predicted to lead labour to victory, look how well those predictions are going! maybe treasury has to get it wrong for a bit before it comes right.

            • adam 9.1.1.2.1.1

              It’s the lies that hurt. – Tighty.

              I think your under the delusion that repeating the propaganda of the day from the media makes you a intellectual.

              Our politicians are morally bereft. Indeed there actions look like those of a socio-path – if not in thought, then action.

              We use to hang money speculators you know.

              A race to who can get the most money – stop, apply some morals to that question – and it comes up looking a very sick virtue. How about the will/desire for power – again when we stop and think for a moment – apply morality and, our leaders come up – wanting.

            • Tracey 9.1.1.2.1.2

              hmmmmm, i read the words. twice. still not sure it answered my question or much at all.

              i know it didnt address my second question.

              • adam

                Tracy all tighty ever does is a Gosman. You will see hell freeze over first before you get a straight answer.

              • TightyRighty

                they are projections, for all i know they could have got the dartboard out. maybe they forgot to carry the one when they factored in the change to consumer behaviour from the impact of the OCR. the difference between predictions and actuality is sometimes referred to as variance. it’s not a bad thing, but you look like an idiot if it is too large either way. if they’d have gone over with the tax take, you can bet your life someone would be saying they are taxing too much. probably me.

                your second question is phrased as statement and lacks a question mark. I think those people who desire to use median wage as a benchmark are a special kind of stupid. there, i answered it.

                • freedom

                  TR, you state stuff, then when called on it, you blame others

                  you’re serving last week’s bread

                • Tracey

                  “I think those people who desire to use median wage as a benchmark are a special kind of stupid.”

                  Thank you.

                  Which makes statements such as these kind of, well, stupid, or at least meaningless

                  “English says the tax package will leave someone on the average wage of about $50,000 with an average rent or mortgage about $15 a week better off – …

                  A typical family with two children and average household income of $76,000 will be about $25 a week better off, he says.” Bill English 2010

                  He then said

                  “He says the government still expects to borrow an average $240 million a week until 2013 before this amount falls away as we move closer to budget surplus.”

                  Then we have things like this

                  ““Does the Prime Minister agree with Professor Eric Leeper’s statement in the latest Reserve Bank Bulletin that counter-cyclical fiscal policy could actually be counter-productive; if not, why not; if yes, why, then, is he borrowing $1 billion plus interest a year in order to give tax relief of $1 billion?” – Roger Douglas, 1 April 2009”

                  National’s 2008 Tax policy statement

                  “National’s promises in 2008,

                  “National’s rebalancing of the tax system is self-funding and requires no cuts to public services or additional borrowing.

                  [...]

                  I also refer to the report: Household incomes in New Zealand: Trends in indicators of inequality and hardship 1982 to 2011

                  Interesting article at Forbes on the CRS report I mentioned yesterday. Lends support to your argument too Tighty.

                  “The study by Grant Graziani, Wilbert van der Klaauw, and Basit Zafar of the New York Fed staff was based on two surveys of about 200 workers. The first (in February and March, 2011—just after the tax cut kicked in) asked what they planned to do with their extra take-home pay. The second (in December, 2011) asked the same workers what they actually did with it. The results: While workers on average said they planned on spending only about 14 percent of added income, they reported months later they actually had spent 36 percent.

                  One especially interesting finding: High-income workers were more likely to spend the extra cash than their lower-paid counterparts. This contradicts the widely-held theory that cash-strapped low-income households will spend a tax cut while high-income workers will save those extra dollars. If these results turn out to be correct, they suggest that payroll tax cuts may do a better job stimulating demand than many economists think.

                  The Obama Administration designed the payroll tax cut as a temporary one-year stimulus (though it did extend it for an extra year). It cut taxes by as much as $2,200 per worker and by an average of about $1,000 for a middle-income household. The study found that those workers who thought the tax cut would last longer than a year were somewhat more likely to plan to spend the extra income than those who believed it was only a one-year break.

                  Congress has reduced withholding many times over the past few decades and thus created lots of grist for researchers. But their studies have come to widely varying conclusions about who saved and how much. This may be because some did consumer surveys while others looked at spending data, or because the circumstances or designs of the tax cuts differed. Whatever the reason, the New York Fed study lands at the high end of the estimates of how much people spend.

                  Even the authors seem somewhat baffled about why people consumed so much. Much economic theory argues they should have saved or used it to pay down debt. But the authors speculate that the design of the tax cut—a reduction in withholding rates instead of a single lump-sum rebate—might have been the cause of all that consumption.

                  Behavioral economists such as the University of Chicago’s Dick Thaler have argued this for many years. In their view, people think of a large lump-sum tax cut as new wealth and thus save it, while they think of the extra money that shows up in their weekly paycheck as additional income and spend it.

                  There is a big caveat here: Surveys are not necessarily the most reliable way to measure behavior—people often say they do one thing when they actually do something else.

                  Still, there are some interesting policy lessons from this new study: If your goal is to boost spending, you should probably do what Obama did and reduce weekly withholding rather than give people a one-time tax season rebate. But if you are going to give it to them for two years, you should probably say so up front, rather cut their taxes one year at a time. All good to remember when the next recession comes around.”

                  • Tracey

                    a special kind of stupid or meaningless cos they are a statistical fallacy. The important aspect of wage movement is how many people are experiencing the movement toward higher wages and their ability to offset their wages against their accommodation and other bills. Average does not address this and is a special kind of stupid.

                    Gosh, now we both say that something is a special kind of stupid.

                    Here is an ee of the two terms.

                    “Hon Phil Goff: Why is it fair that someone on a high salary—let us use, for example, somebody on a salary of the level of the Prime Minister’s—gets $120 extra a week today, while someone on the median wage with kids gets nothing?

                    Hon JOHN KEY: As I said earlier, the reality of a progressive system is that higher-income earners pay a lot more tax. The reality is that a very small percentage of New Zealanders pay a lot of PAYE tax. But today the National Government has been very fair in its tax cuts. The average worker is getting around $20 a week. It is a very fair tax system.”

                    The average worker is a fiction. He/she cannot actually be pointed to, they are a pure statistic. The median wage earner is identifiable and real.

                • Tracey

                  “special kind of stupid” use median, enlighteneded folks use average wages…
                  Steven Joyce 2013 and 2014

                  ” 2. JOHN HAYES (National—Wairarapa) to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he received on wage increases in New Zealand?

                  Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance) on behalf of the Minister of Finance: Everybody’s own circumstances are, of course, different, but average movements in wages across the economy are shown in the quarterly employment survey, the latest release of which came out last week. It showed that average hourly wages rose 2.6 percent in the last year, compared with inflation of around 0.9 percent. Average weekly wages rose by even more—2.9 percent—and the average wage is now over $53,000 a year before tax. So it is quite clear that, on average, wages in New Zealand are rising considerably faster currently than the cost of living is…. Since September 2008 the average wage after tax has increased by a total of 22 percent, from a bit over $36,000 a year to a little bit over $44,000 a year. Inflation over the same period has totalled 8.5 percent. So it is a total of 22 percent in after-tax wages versus 8.5 percent inflation over the same period. Again, everybody’s circumstances are different, but it is clear that, on average, working New Zealanders have had a sizable increase in their standard of living over the last 4 years.”

                  “Using this measure, average weekly earnings rose by 2.8 percent over the year to December, while inflation was only 1.6 percent. So, on average, wages are continuing to rise faster than inflation. The gains are even more significant when measured on an after-tax basis. The average weekly earnings after tax—[Interruption]; they do not want to hear it—have gone up 25 percent since September 2008, compared with inflation of just 10 percent over the same period.”

                  My sense is a special kind of stupid believes that using average wages paints a realistic or even honest picture of our society and its ability to navigate its bills.

                  50% of kiwis in work earn less than $22 per hour. 50% of kiwis can only get 36.5 hours per week paid work.

                  But for you that is meaningless.

                  • TightyRighty

                    Everything you just pointed out shows that the average wage is a better measure and that median wages only enter the conversation when someone wants to point out how poor someone else is.

                    oh, and that tax cuts for the well off aren’t a waste of money.

                    at what point are you actually going to prove to me that using median wage means something.

                    you’d give an asprin a headache.

                    • TightyRighty

                      can you provide one definitive source that says using the median wage is a better indicator of an economies performance that isn’t a nz labour politician / green politician in opposition?

                    • Tracey

                      and average why do you think i posted something that supported your argument?

                      by all means call me names or make your silly comments but of tge two of us only one of us is trying to find fact for support.

                      of course “how poor” people are is important which helps explain your a nationals desire to cling to the average. any growth that doesnt reduce poverty is more than a spreadsheet exercise.

                      it appears you delight in discussing statistics with little application to human beings yet you blithely say nzers are saving more. BS. some may be, but which ones and to what end. the gap between the bottom 50% earners and top 10% is growing. your average and growth smugness overlooks this.

                    • Tracey

                      you wrote

                      ” provide one definitive source that says using the median wage is a better indicator of an economies performance…”

                      ” What does the gross domestic product tell us about our quality of life and economic well-being? If you ask Nobel laureate and economist Joseph Stiglitz, he’ll say — Not much. And then he’ll tell you to look at median household income instead.

                      In his May 16 New York Times Magazine article about GDP, writer Jon Gertner featured Stiglitz for good reason. Stiglitz recently served as the head of a commission formed by French President Nicolas Sarkozy to identify the limits of GDP. And he and his international team of economists and statisticians produced an expansive report outlining a dashboard of indicators for measuring progress — considered as alternatives to GDP.

                      His oft-repeated mantra is “What we measure affects what we do.” In his view, using the wrong metrics will inevitably lead to the wrong policies.

                      …” Share This Print This RSS Feed
                      Economy
                      Measuring Economic Well-being: GDP vs. Median Income

                      By Anthony Calabrese
                      July 6, 2010

                      gdpthumb.gifWhat does the gross domestic product tell us about our quality of life and economic well-being? If you ask Nobel laureate and economist Joseph Stiglitz, he’ll say — Not much. And then he’ll tell you to look at median household income instead.

                      In his May 16 New York Times Magazine article about GDP, writer Jon Gertner featured Stiglitz for good reason. Stiglitz recently served as the head of a commission formed by French President Nicolas Sarkozy to identify the limits of GDP.

                      Public Perception and Economic Reality

                      In addition to wasting time and taxpayer money on bad policy, the gap between expectations and economic growth can erode the public’s trust in the government, according to Stiglitz. “One of the reasons that most people may perceive themselves as being worse-off even though average GDP is increasing is because they are indeed worse-off,” Stiglitz said in official reflections on the commission’s report.

                      Focusing on Different Measures Over Time

                      Looking at median measures (the middle value in a set with an equal number above and below), Stiglitz noted how median household income had declined over the past decade while GDP per capita had gone up. “When you have increasing inequality, median and average behave differently,” Stiglitz said in the Times article.”

                    • geoff

                      Traitor tighty, this is just basic stats.
                      The median is used primarily for skewed distributions, it’s just the point where half of the sample values are less than the median value and the other half of the sample values are greater than the mean value.
                      It’s usually a better measure for population wage measurements because the wage distribution for a population is usually skewed.

                      I don’t hear you complaining about the use of the median price in the reporting of stats in housing market where it is commonly used for exactly the same reason.

                    • TightyRighty

                      lol stiglitz. that guy. sheesh. where do i start.

                      what your really saying is that inequality increases as gdp increases and it’s hidden if we only use average wage growth to measure the growth in average wages. to some extent thats true, but it still doesn’t make up for the loss of accuracy as to where individuals sit in relation the wage group as a whole.

                      If you just want to measure how poor some of the working people are, by all means flagellate yourself about it and use the median wage. If you want to see how sectors within the economy, professions, and individuals within these sectors and professions / vocations are actually doing in relation to their peers, use average wage. it’s easier to break down, and then we all know if we are above average. or in your case below.

                      geoff, you are a complete moron. have you ever heard me complain about house prices and how they are reported except to say i think they are overvalued and not a good investment compared to stocks? try again geoffy. basic stats? duh. this is the standard of the authors on the standard these days? someone please help the mouthpiece of the labour movement.

                    • geoff

                      Ah ok, I see what level I should have pitched at now.
                      I’ll try again.

                      Ewe iz pooo fart! Er duh shurrp bowt stuf lol Y yoo suche a dum?!!? Lolzzzz

                    • Tracey

                      so it has to be an economist you agree with? gosh it gets narrower and narrower.

                      are you still reading the second article and sounding out the big words?

                    • Tracey

                      Adjective
                      definitive (comparative more definitive, superlative most definitive)
                      explicitly defined
                      conclusive or decisive
                      definite, authoritative and complete

        • Kahukowhai 9.1.1.3

          54% in the polls is not 54% of the electorate, a large chunk have not voted in the last election and maybe the one before.

    • Ennui 9.2

      Tighty, you are right that there is spending…I would contend that to a large degree that expenditure is made possible by credit based upon any number of false assumptions such as “continuously rising property prices”. I would also contend that the spending is highly vulnerable to any number of likely events and could dry up over night.

      Neither Right nor Left have a clue how to respond to reality, smoke and mirrors suffice to keep confidence in unreality high enough to maintain the mirage. Real supply and demand will be a harsh tutor….and this particular Cassandra will be truly despised because she wont take any prisoners. Interesting times.

      • TightyRighty 9.2.1

        I would contend that you are partially right with your first statement. ignoring the fact that for the last 6 years new zealanders have saved as opposed to borrow, even if it is only 3c on the dollar as opposed to borrowing 17c, you would be completely right. but there are savings and a pool of local capital available for investment. we are starting to see the net improvement in the economy as a result of returns to local people for their investments.

        the second part of your comment is grounded in the belief that the government can control the economy. i think there has been enough evidence of this recently to prove that the good government is a stable government. one not hell bent on nationalizing everything to please it’s ideological, but minority support base.

        • thatguynz 9.2.1.1

          Would the opposite of “nationalizing everything to please it’s ideological…” not be “privatising everything to please its ideological” as opposed to what you have called a “stable government”?

          Interesting play on words you’ve used there.

          • TightyRighty 9.2.1.1.1

            it’s partially privatized. the majority of it is still government owned. that’s what it means when you have 51% of something.

            • thatguynz 9.2.1.1.1.1

              That’s splitting hairs – so if the left were to nationalise it, they are only nationalising 49% of it?

              The point still stands.

        • Tracey 9.2.1.2

          WHICH nzers have saved?

          you relyi g on averages or median? source?

          • TightyRighty 9.2.1.2.1

            median wages are a fallacy, it automatically makes the “benchmark” wage lower as there are a lot more people on lower wages than their are on high ones. if we take the stupid measure that any income gets included into wage equations, median drops right down to next to nothing, where as using average wages accounts for it.

            WHICH new zealanders have saved? those who didn’t spend all their money obviously. yell at me like you actually asked a cogent question.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.2.1.2.1.1

              The median wage is a statistic. Calling it a fallacy is a National Party enabler, so who cares what they say they mean?

              • TightyRighty

                a meaningless one. if it meant something, it would have been used before the national party came to power.

            • Tracey 9.2.1.2.1.2

              You stated that NZers had saved not spent. I asked you which ones had saved. As you wish to be deliberately obtuse, let me rephrase it for you.

              Please post your sources for “for the last 6 years new zealanders have saved as opposed to borrow”

              You attack one statistic as a fallacy, median, but invoke other statistics to boost your arguments. median is a very good measure precisely because it deals with real peole where average does not translate to anything tangible. median gives us a snapshot of the lower 50% of our working nation or our nation. Average does not, but purports to, as used by politicians and their apologists.

              “as there are a lot more people on lower wages than their are on high ones” – we definitely would be stupid to focus on that.

        • Ennui 9.2.1.3

          T, the second part of my comment is not around government at all, it is around the concepts and ideas currently espoused by both Left and Right that have far more in common than you imagine. For example both are children of industrial growth economies, and share definitions / assumptions re money property etc even if they dont agree on outcomes etc. They both proscribe the thinking and the possibilities of what can be included in any debate, they both frame the argument into one theme.

          As Galbraith said about Keynes “He was for a time, but not for all times”, so to are the concepts of Left and Right.

          • TightyRighty 9.2.1.3.1

            while not wrong, i’m guessing what your proposal would be to replace it would be more wrong than the current status quo. i don’t have the answer, but i’ll know if ones wrong.

          • geoff 9.2.1.3.2

            Depends what you mean by left and right.
            For me they relate to the distribution of power in a group of people.

            Left generally means a more even distribution of power but more importantly, where ever the power is held it is exercised for the benefit of the group.

            Right means the opposite, generally power condenses to a few and that power is exercised for the benefit of those few.

            Greens, Labour, Mana, NZ first are left in their outlook

            National/Act are clearly Right wing in this sense. Hence they are privileged elites who fuck everything up with their greed for power.

    • Lanthanide 9.3

      TR, it was National that decided if you earned over $70k, you are rich.

      • TightyRighty 9.3.1

        no shit lanth, it’s not like i’m making a huge song and dance about where the tax rate kicks in. do you fell rich though? would you feel any richer if being rich kicked in at $60k. seems national might be a bit more progressive than labour on that front.

        • alwyn 9.3.1.1

          Given David Cunliffe’s musings it appears that the “new” labour party approach regards rich as being about a million a year.
          Cunliffe himself gets about $300,000/year if we include his tax-free expense account. His wife, a well known Auckland lawyer and a partner in a law firm would probably have a similar income. He then has the gall to describe his family as being in a middle income bracket who live in a “do-upper” type of house! I can’t remember his exact words but that was the gist of them.

        • Lanthanide 9.3.1.2

          Once again, TR, Labour implemented a tax cut that put the top tax bracket at $80,000.

          National repealed it as one of their first actions in government.

          National have chosen not to introduce a higher tax bracket, as Labour are planning for this election (with enough signalling to suggest it’ll kick in at $150k).

          Therefore, National thinks if you’re earning over $70,000, you must be rich.

  10. captain hook 10

    the National party dont care if its stupid or not as long as they are in charge. Thats all that counts with lowbrows like them.

  11. In 1973 the club of Rome released a paper called the limit of growth. The paper stated that according to this group the planet could not sustain more than 500 million people long term.

    In fact one of them in 1980 said that the US should lose 2/3 of its population within the next 50 years. That was almost 35 years ago and they just stopped billions in foodstamp programs for some 50 million people. All they need to do is find a solution for another 150 million or so over the next 15 years (Fukushima, more wars come to mind) and they should be up to schedule.

    Some of the people responsible for that paper are still powerful behind the scenes today and they mean to get to that number no matter what.

    They are printing their own money out of thin air. Don’t need workers for taxes anymore and with the introduction of a robot army in the form of drones and remote controlled weaponry they don’t need to convince thousands of idjits anymore to join in the war efforts. They can kill us from above and so no longer need to fear us; the masses.

    We are not so much out of the loop as obsolete.

    • Lanthanide 11.1

      “Some of the people responsible for that paper are still powerful behind the scenes today and they mean to get to that number no matter what.”

      Your comment was going so well until you got to there.

      • thatguynz 11.1.1

        So you don’t agree with the remainder of the comment then Lanth?

        • Lanthanide 11.1.1.1

          Stopped reading when I got to the paranoid conspiracy theory so don’t know what the rest says.

          • thatguynz 11.1.1.1.1

            Wow.. Interesting view of what a “paranoid conspiracy theory” may look like I guess.

            • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1.1.1

              I’m with Lanthanide on this one. travellerev obviously has no idea as to what the Club of Rome was doing or trying for.

              • thatguynz

                That’s not what I was questioning 😉

                I was questioning Lanth’s statement that she stopped reading at the line where Ev asserted (or implied) that members of the Club of Rome were still powerful “behind the scenes today” and that it was a paranoid conspiracy theory when I think it could be fairly well accepted that some members of MOST international think tanks almost certainly are powerful behind the scenes today.

                I may of course have misinterpreted what Lanth was taking umbrage with and if so, I withdraw and apologise 🙂

                • Draco T Bastard

                  I don’t think the Club of Rome has always been a powerful force behind the scenes – if they had been I think the world would be a much difference place today.

                • Lanthanide

                  It seems you only read the first half of the sentence I quoted, I’ll quote the second part for you again:
                  “and they mean to get to that number no matter what.”

                  travellerev is saying members of the club of Rome are trying to orchestrate genocide under the guise of the planet running out of resources.

                  Also I’m male, btw.

                  • Here are some members. Kissinger notably was part of the Club of Rome when the wrote the paper I wrote about:

                    The membership list of the Club of Rome includes Henry Kissinger, Al Gore, Javier Solana (Secretary General of the European Union), Mikhail Gorbachev, Hassan bin Talal (World Future Council), Javier Perez de Cuellar (former UN Secretary General), Kofi Annan (former UN Secretary General), Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Jimmy Carter, and Steven Schneider, the Stanford University biology professor who practically invented global warming. Other associates include Tony Blair, Deepak Chopra, George Soros, Ted Turner, Barbara Marx Hubbard (New Age occultist), Jane Goodall (evolutionist), Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, Prince Philipe of Belgium, Martin Lees (President of the University of Peace), Ernesto Zedillo (former President of Mexico), Vaclav Havel, and a variety of UN officials.

                    Kissinger thinks we’re all useless eaters and should be got rid off and soldiers are stupid animals to be used as pawns. Nice!

      • travellerev 11.1.2

        Radioactive rare earth man,

        I take it you are trying to make a point?

        For all of you out there needing some links to read up on:

        Here is Webster Tarpley on what the IMF, Europa, the US and Chevron just to name a few are trying to unleash in the Ukraine on the local people after their illegal regime change.

        Here is what will happen when the 0.001% can kill whomever they don’t like with drones.

        Here is what Max Keiser has to say about us not being needed anymore and a whole lot of other interesting genocidal activities by the way.

        Here is what is happening in China. Something I might add I have predicted for at least the last 6 years.

        They killed more than a million people in Iraq, They’re killing in Libya, Syria. The Greek are being pushed out of healthcare and an entire generation in Spain, Italy, Portugal, France, England and the US to name a few is unemployed with absolutely no prospect of ever getting a job.

        And yes, they are printing money out of thin air as I might add they have been doing when they took the US from the gold standard.

        Now radioactive rare earth man why don’t you go geek out some more somewhere else or alternatively why don’t you do us all a favor and read up on the links I just agave here.

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.2.1

          I guess a global electronic surveillance state panopticon is also just some fictional paranoid conspiracy theory as well.

    • the pigman 11.2

      Your post might have had some validity/interest until you fell back on the “Fukushima is going to cause deaths in the U.S.”

      Let me know when it’s held responsible for one, let alone 150 million.

      • travellerev 11.2.1

        I never said Fukushima was going to cause 150 million deaths. Bad healthcare, no more food stamps, no jobs, no houses will probably do a lot of damage. And I’m sure they’ll come up with some other shit too.

        • the pigman 11.2.1.1

          Of course, you are spot on that bad healthcare, no more food stamps, no jobs, and no houses will cause deaths, I’m not sure as it will go so far as wide-scale depopulation, since the U.S. doesn’t seem to be able to imprison its poor fast enough to stop them expanding.

          What I take issue with is the bald assertion that Fukushima is going to cause deaths in the U.S. (“All they need to do is find a solution for another 150 million or so over the next 15 years (Fukushima, more wars come to mind) and they should be up to schedule.”)

          For me, the last straw was when Stuff published the article about the “radioactive giant squid from fukushima” washing up on the west coast of the U.S. then didn’t publish even a squeak of a retraction when the whole thing was found to be a hoax. I only learned that it was a hoax watching Japanese TV several days later. Which is a fucking fail by NZ MSM journalism.

  12. Bob Square Pants 12

    Going by this years polling, it would suggest Labour is out of the loop.

    • drongo 12.1

      It seems inevitable: Key to continue as PM, and the ABC faction must be sharpening the knives, but it’s a bit too late to change leader.

  13. greywarbler 13

    Rod Oram has interesting comments on Fonterra this morning. e&oe of my report. Worth listening to on Radionz to get the correct gen.

    The government has not released its report on its own responsibility or lack of it in the affair about botulism. He says there is much to be learned and government is not fronting. Fonterra is pleading guilty to the court case and that means that matters won’t come out there. But the French company that is suing Fonterra is likely to result in full reports being shown. Oram points out that Government has not picked up on recommendations of the task force. Kathryn Ryan defending Key strongly, more strongly than I would expect.

    He also says that it is very strange that Key has gone to China as it is unprecedented for a major leader to go and apologise for a business fault, and he cannot say definitely that government is not at fault. As he hasn’t he cannot assure the Chinese leaders of NZ being on top of it. It is really Fonterra’s problem, and Oram doesn’t think that there are lingering doubts there that make it necessary that Key should go. Oram feels that instead that it will raise questions and confusion in the minds of the Chinese leaders that there are further problems which they as yet have not learned about.

    Oram mentioned that food regulations take up 3 metres of shelf space. I think that is the NZ ones. And there are questions as to whether they are satisfactory. There is an absence of a special branch responsible for food safety here which has been noted overseas.

  14. greywarbler 14

    Just hat tip to a heading in today’s The Press Chch – pA2 –
    “Key suggests Chinese lease rathr than buy” from Cathie Bell and Tracy Watkins.

  15. greywarbler 15

    Ooh I have just read a comment from Gravedodger on No Minister. Reading this and some of other stuff on certain blogs gives me the same sinking feeling as having walked on a piece of dog shit.

    • lprent 15.1

      Yeah Pyscho doesn’t appear to be writing there much these days. I may drop the site off the feed. The old farts over there seem to be getting pretty repetitive and boring.

  16. Kahukowhai 16

    That is easy to work out. The idea (chilling as it is) is export focused and completely writes our small domestic market out of the picture. Make labour costs as low as possible and exporters can compete with low wage economies like China or undercut high wage economies like the US. This of course is exactly what China has done and look at how their economy is booming. Of course China has a terrible work safety and public health record but their government helps to keep a lid on dissent so the companies all doing business over there just look the other way.

    Economic development or empowerment of NZ workers is definitely not the aim – disempowerment and impoverishment is, and I am sure John Key and all of his cabinet know it. China is the model for this. With the export demand constantly growing due to the increasing global population, NZ’s small domestic market can be largely ignored. The government can always fill gaps in labour shortages by importing workers from low wage countries, for whom New Zealand is seen as a paradise.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • The Confident Traveller Led Astray – A Poem For Winston Peters.
    Quo Vadis, Winston?Where are you going, Winston, Son of the winterless north? We have lost count of the summers Since first you ventured forth. This track on which we find you, Unmarked on any map, Leads travellers to strange places. Do you not fear mishap? Countless roads I’ve travelled, Oh ye ...
    2 hours ago
  • Racism loses in Switzerland
    Over in Switzerland, the racist "People's Party" tried to have a Brexit-style referendum on ending freedom of movement with the EU, so they could stop the "flood" of foreigners. But the Swiss people said No: Swiss voters have resoundingly rejected an attempt to tear up the country’s agreement with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    17 hours ago
  • International Right To Know Day
    Today, 28 September, is International Right To Know Day (or, as the UN puts it, the "International Day for Universal Access to Information"). The Ombudsman is celebrating with a poll showing that while most people don't know about their freedom of information rights, those that use them mostly get what ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    18 hours ago
  • One way or another, we’re paying for this
    Back in July, when foreign polluters (and archaeological criminals) Rio Tinto announced they planned to close Tiwai Point, I was dancing on its grave. Why? Because the carbon subsidies alone were more than enough to fund alternative jobs - or even just to pay everyone dependent on it a reasonable ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    21 hours ago
  • End of life – it isn’t so easy
    In a few weeks, New Zealanders will make a choice whether we implement into law the End of Life Choice Act 2019.  My scientific expertise includes developing and validating methods to predict future events of ill people including death. There is one section of the Act that concerns me deeply. Section ...
    SciBlogsBy John Pickering
    21 hours ago
  • Democracy Under Threat
    My wife and I are at an age when we have begun to think (and worry) about the kind of world we will leave behind for our children and, particularly, our grandchildren. We have experienced during our own lives, like others of our generation, our fair share of hard times ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 day ago
  • Liam Hehir: Why it’s important to be open to relationships with people who vote differently
      There are few things written more deeply on the human heart than religion. Differences between us on the purpose and ultimate destiny of human existence have sometimes inspired great intolerance and even wars. But what would we make today of a Catholic who refused to countenance a meaningful relationship ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    1 day ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #39
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... The Warming Climates of the Arctic and the Tropics Squeeze the Mid-latitudes, Where Most People Live Melting Arctic ice sends ...
    1 day ago
  • Where in the world will the next epidemic start?
    Naomi Forrester-Soto, Keele University Viruses jumping from animals to humans have been the starting point of numerous outbreaks, from Ebola to Zika. Given the similarity of SARS-CoV-2 to coronaviruses found in bats, this probably marked the beginning of COVID-19 too. We know that viruses have passed from animals to humans ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 days ago
  • Fiscal Maths with Paul “Goldie” Goldsmith
    Mr Thinks has asked me to come onto the blog today to outline a few concepts in fiscal mathematics. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    2 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #39
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Sep 20, 2020 through Sat, Sep 26, 2020 Editor's Choice Climate Disruption Is Now Locked In. The Next Moves Will Be Crucial A crack on the Amery Ice Shelf in ...
    2 days ago
  • National behind the times
    When Todd Muller resigned as leader of the National Party and allowed for Judith Collins to assume command, you could tell the blue “team” was desperate and in search of past glories. After all, Crusher is towards the end of her political career and from a bygone era where dirty ...
    3 days ago
  • Coronavirus: the road to vaccine roll-out is always bumpy, as 20th-century pandemics show
    Samantha Vanderslott, University of Oxford If you have been following the media coverage of the new vaccines in development for COVID-19, it will be clear that the stakes are high. Very few vaccine trials in history have attracted so much attention, perhaps since polio in the mid-20th century. A now ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • PREFU: The State of Government Accounts
    The Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update’ (PREFU) tells us something about the future of the Public Sector but it requires careful analysis to assess how it is going. The 2020 PREFU is the most important economic statement during any election campaign. Unfortunately the commentariat tends to treat it briefly ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Predatory delay
    Farmers are whining again about being expected to clean up their act: Canterbury farmers want politicians to stop painting them as climate change villains, listen to their needs and allow them more time to boost environmental standards. [...] “The targets are necessary for the environment, but do we ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Flight to nowhere sends the wrong message in climate crisis
    Qantas Airlines’ 7-hour “flight to nowhere”, that sold out in 10 minutes with prices from A$787 to A$3787, seemed like a sick joke to climate advocates. Apart from the waste of fuel and the pointless emissions, passengers would be able to see first-hand, from a plane just like those that ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: The cannabis referendum – a doctor’s perspective
    Cannabis is part of our culture: 80% of adults have tried it sometime. Intuition tells us that legalising cannabis will increase use – science suggests that is not likely. Our Dunedin and Christchurch studies show that cannabis use peaks in our 20s. Older people are less frequent users whether it ...
    4 days ago
  • First steps: Jerry DeSilva on the evolution of bipedalism
    Yesterday morning I got up (at the rather early and unaccustomed hour of 3.30am) to listen to a webinar by paleoanthropologist Dr Jeremy DeSilva¹. Titled “First Steps”, his presentation was about the origins of bipedalism in the human lineage. It was a fascinating session & I thought I’d turn my ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    4 days ago
  • True Believers In A False God.
    Down The Rabbit Hole: "Social psychologists have found that when fearful people contemplate potential misfortunes, they tend to feel helpless and pessimistic, but when angry people contemplate the same, they feel a sense of optimism and control. And one simple way to transmute fear into anger is to perceive an evil ...
    4 days ago
  • Majority Rule Requires Majorities That Are Real.
    Fifty Percent Plus One: New Zealand’s genuine-majority-delivering two-party system endured for five elections only (1938, 1943, 1946, 1949, 1951) a period of just 16 years. Very few New Zealanders alive today can boast of participating in an election which delivered a true majority to either Labour or National. Someone who ...
    4 days ago
  • Labour super exploitation
    This is the second in the lecture series by Andy Higginbottom on superexploitation. Here he looks at Marini’s theory of labour super-exploitation and Capital ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • Small asteroid to make near-miss of Earth in NZ skies tonight
    Sorry for the late notice on this one, but I only just heard myself, in common with most of the human race. A small asteroid, somewhere between the size of a truck and the size of a house in dimensions, will hurtle past the Earth tonight, dipping closer to ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • This is not what accountability looks like
    When someone commits trespass, assault with a weapon, and kidnapping, you'd expect them to be prosecuted, right? But apparently the rules are different if you wear a blue uniform: A police investigation has found officers in Northland trespassed on a man's property, then unlawfully pepper sprayed him and arrested ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Cycling: head injuries ignored because of entrenched macho culture
    Howard Hurst, University of Central Lancashire and Jack Hardwicke, University of Winchester Competitive road cycling is a demanding and unique sport. One where crashing is inevitable – especially at the professional level. While the risk of head injury is relatively low in cycling – approximately 5-13% – compared to contact ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • The coming US shitshow
    Today President Trump once again refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses the US election. Coincidentally, The Atlantic has a long article on exactly what that means, from voter suppression by armed thugs in the name of "ballot security", to refusing to allow the vote ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A moral void
    That's the only way to describe the SIS, who - like their British counterparts - decided to look the other way on child abuse: The SIS knew a young woman was being sexually abused by her father but failed to lodge a complaint with the police, effectively allowing the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • When will Goldsmith resign?
    The National Party’s campaign has gone from bad to worse with a further two large miscalculations being uncovered in their alternative fiscal plan. Firstly, National’s economic spokesperson and list MP, Paul Goldsmith, used May's Budget figures instead of last week's PREFU numbers, and came up with a whopping $4.3 billion ...
    5 days ago
  • The Adventures of Annalax: Part IX
    The initial session was a struggle. Annalax and Magni tried sorting out the details with the Isaac twins (the people pursuing the mountain trip). Annalax happened to mention his devotion to Lolth… whom the Isaacs, being ...
    5 days ago
  • This is bullshit
    On March 13, three plainclothes police officers kicked in Breonna Taylor's door under a no-knock warrant targeting another person. When a person inside reasonably assumed they were home invaders and (this being America) started shooting, they shot up the place and everyone around them - killing Taylor. Today, one of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Arctic sea ice is being increasingly melted from below by warming Atlantic water
    Tom Rippeth, Bangor University Arctic sea ice today (white) is covering a much smaller area than in 1980-2010 (orange line). National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado, Boulder, CC BY-SA Each September, scientists like me look out for the point when the Arctic’s meagre summer fizzles out and ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • The long-term health burden of COVID-19: further justification for NZ’s elimination strategy
    Prof John D. Potter* This blog briefly surveys the emerging scientific evidence on the longer-term burden of symptoms and disease in survivors of the COVID-19 pandemic. Many of these symptoms point to damage in the brain and heart. These long-term harms add to the wide range of other reasons for ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    5 days ago
  • Going High, Going Low: An Assessment Of The First Leaders’ Debate.
    Uncrushed: Jacinda Ardern knew exactly what was expected of her in the first Leaders' Debate. Labour’s dominant position, three weeks out from the general election, is constructed out of the admiration and gratitude of hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders who, more often than not, vote National.  Nothing she said ...
    5 days ago
  • The smokefree policies of political parties: Do they care about people who smoke?
    George Thomson*, Nick Wilson, Janet Hoek, Andrew Waa, Richard Edwards In this time of Covid-19, helping people who smoke to quit their addiction has an even greater importance. Smokers are more vulnerable to many harmful health effects, including severe effects from the virus. Policies that support people who smoke to ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    5 days ago
  • The Fog Of Economic Policy Is Starting To Clear…
    Bryan Bruce, https://www.facebook.com/www.redsky.tv, 19 September 2020 National’s economic policy of temporary tax cuts yesterday proved, if proof be needed, that they are unapologetic neoliberals. While their claim that with more money in their pockets people will spend more might sound attractive, the reality is that tax cuts always benefit the ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #38, 2020
    Highlighted article: Carbon pricing and planetary boundaries  Engström et al take what might be called a systems approach to evaluating carbon pricing, taking into a account various economic sectors affected by and affecting paying for emissions. The conclusions are overall a rare pleasant surprise— a feature predicated on cooperation.  Abstract: ...
    6 days ago
  • Humans ignite almost every wildfire that threatens homes
    Nathan Mietkiewicz, National Ecological Observatory Network and Jennifer Balch, University of Colorado Boulder CC BY-ND Summer and fall are wildfire season across the western U.S. In recent years, wildfires have destroyed thousands of homes, forced hundreds of thousands of people to evacuate and exposed tens of millions to harmful ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: China steps up
    China has increased its climate change ambition, and set a target to be carbon-neutral by 2060: China will reach carbon neutrality before 2060 and ensure its greenhouse gas emissions peak in the next decade, Xi Jinping has told the UN general assembly. “China will scale up its intended nationally ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Humans have dealt with plenty of climate variability
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz How much climate variability have humans dealt with since we ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • Indigenous perspectives on unrestricted access to genomic data
    By Genomics Aotearoa researcher Maui Hudson, University of Waikato It is vital that genomics research respects genomic data and genetic heritage from indigenous communities. Genomics research is a rapidly growing field of study, and there is a strong push to make the huge amount of data being produced open ...
    SciBlogsBy Genomics Aotearoa
    6 days ago
  • Terrible luck: lockdowns on learning and youth job prospects
    What is bad luck? Bad luck is spilling spaghetti sauce down your shirt right before an important meeting. When the person in front of you gets the last seat on the bus, that’s bad luck. Bad luck is when it’s sunny outside, so you leave the house without a coat, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • Ian Powell: Does private healthcare threaten public healthcare in New Zealand?
    Is the private health system impacting negatively on the public health system? Health commentator Ian Powell evaluates a recent NZ Herald article by Natalie Akoorie (“Public v private healthcare: Moonlighting, skimming, duplication – should NZ do better”), and looks at how the dual system works, and concludes that the answer ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    6 days ago
  • A rabbit-hole election debate: So do you want more avocado orchards?
    We live in strange and unusual times. It’s been a century since we’ve endured a global pandemic like this, more than half a century since we’ve had economic woes like this. So maybe we got an opening election debate for the times - because that was a strange and unusual ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    6 days ago
  • LIVE: Jacinda Ardern vs. Judith Collins, First Debate
    Tonight, The Civilian will be live-blogging the first of too many debates between Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and National Party leader Judith Collins, and also the last fifteen minutes of the news. Be sure to tune in from 6:45pm for regular updates, which can be accessed by refreshing this page ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    7 days ago
  • Hundreds of Aucklanders arrested after illegal mass gathering on Harbour Bridge
    An enormous drive-in party, shown here, was held this morning on Auckland’s Harbour Bridge, where police were forced to intervene. Hundreds of Aucklanders were arrested this morning on public health grounds, after an apparent illegal mass gathering on the city’s Harbour Bridge. Police say hundreds of Aucklanders gathered in their ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    7 days ago
  • The Looming Fight.
    Social Distancing Be Damned - It's Jacinda! Shortly after ascending to Labour’s leadership, Jacinda described herself as a “pragmatic idealist”. It was an inspired oxymoron – packing into just two words the essence of the social-democrat’s dilemma. It was good to know that she knew what lay ahead of her. ...
    7 days ago
  • Climate Change: Moving faster
    Back in 2017, the UK announced that it would ban the sale of new fossil fuel vehicles by 2040. Its a basic climate change measure, aimed at reducing emissions by shifting the vehicle fleet to cleaner technologies. Now, in the wake of the pandemic, they're planning to bring it forward ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • The Australian courts have had enough of refugee detention
    For the past decade, Australia has had a racist, anti-refugee policy. Those claiming refugee status are imprisoned without trial and left to rot in the hope they would "voluntarily" return to be tortured and murdered. When the courts have granted them visas, the government has immediately revoked them on racial ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Friction and the Anti-lock Braking System
    Yesterday afternoon I had to call on my car’s anti-lock braking system (ABS). For reasons best known to its driver, a car pulled out of a side road right in front of me while I was driving home after work, and I needed to stop in a hurry. I rather ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    7 days ago
  • The Inside Word: New Zealand Quarantine
    There are a fair few misconceptions about conditions within New Zealand’s Quarantine Hotels. Madeline Grant’s misplaced accusations being one prominent example, though she is not alone. Today, I thought I’d share the inside word, so to speak. A friend of mine has recently returned to New Zealand from overseas, and ...
    7 days ago
  • Hard News: ASA: Let’s not talk about this
    Last week, major newspapers carried a full-page ad as part of the campaign for a "No" vote to the referendum question about supporting the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill. The ad was authorised by the SAM NZ Coalition, which takes its name from a controversial American anti-cannabis group and includes ...
    7 days ago
  • This is not kind
    New Zealand has a serious homelessness problem, due to skyrocketing rents and a lack of state houses. One of the ways we stick a band-aid on it is to put people up in motels. Previously, they were charged full commercial rates, saddled with odious debt due to the government's failure ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Wokies are the establishment
    by Ani O’Brien In the absence of a better word with which to refer to the rabid activists who claim progressivism while demanding adherence to an increasingly prescriptive set of political beliefs, I call them “woke”. With its roots in Black American slang, the term originally denoted a person or ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • How to strengthen the post-isolation Covid rules
    Over the weekend, the Ministry of Health reported a case of Covid-19 in Auckland that is not related to the current Auckland cluster. Before we start to panic, here’s how I think the case happened and how we can strengthen our current border controls. The new Covid-19 case is someone ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    1 week ago
  • Neuralink and You: A Human-AI Symbiosis
    Becky Casale Elon Musk reckons his Neuralink brain implant is much more than a medical device–that one day it will drive a symbiosis between humans and artificial intelligence. “Good morning! I’m Dr Benedict Egg and I’ll be supervising your Neuralink insertion today. Do you have any questions?” “Yes, Doc. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Liam Hehir: Our obsession with American politics
    Many New Zealanders take a strong interest in US politics, with the death of Supreme Court Judge Ruth Bader Ginsberg being the latest example. Liam Hehir wonders if it very wise for New Zealanders to get so worked about it.   Many politically engaged New Zealanders are now furiously ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    1 week ago
  • COVID: Back to Level 1
    After stamping the Coronavirus out via strict lockdown between March and May, New Zealand went through a good three months without any community cases. Then a local outbreak in Auckland rather buggered things up last month. Auckland’s been in level 3 and level 2.5 for the past six weeks. ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Climate injustice
    Who's causing our skyrocketing emissions? As with most of our other problems, It's the rich: The wealthiest 1% of the world’s population were responsible for the emission of more than twice as much carbon dioxide as the poorer half of the world from 1990 to 2015, according to new ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Good riddance
    The border closure and resulting lack of foreign slave-workers is driving the fishing industry out of business: One fishing company is effectively out of business while others are bracing for large financial hits as the deepwater New Zealand industry, unable to get skilled foreign workers into the country, have ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #38
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... The tipping points at the heart of the climate crisis Many parts of the Earth’s climate system have been destabilised by ...
    1 week ago
  • Anyone for Collins?
    In the absence of national public opinion polls, we have had to make do in recent weeks with other guides to voter intentions. Those guides, such as the Auckland Central poll, the incidence of google enquiries and the responses to Vote Compass questions, have suggested, not unexpectedly, that Labour is ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • Crusher’s fiscal malfunction
    Crusher Collins - National Party leaderWe all know that the National Party is desperate to gain some traction during this election campaign and have been throwing pretty much everything at the Labour Party in order to try and undermine Jacinda Ardern and what the Coalition Government has achieved. But unfortunately ...
    1 week ago
  • Much of the commentariat’s reporting of the most recent GDP figure was misleading and unhelpful. The prize for the stupidest remark about the GDP figure for second quarter 2020 (2020Q2) released on Thursday (17 Sept) goes to Judith Collins, whose response to Grant Robertson’s comments indicated she did not ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • Love and Hate as Complementary Revolutionary Acts
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh goloing@gmail.com (19/09/2020) Che Guevara said that a true revolutionary is motivated by love i.e. love of the oppressed, the poor, the children dying from preventable illnesses. This phrase of his is true but has been used by reformists and their more hippy wing have taken advantage ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #38
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Sep 13, 2020 through Sat, Sep 19, 2020 Editor's Choice Get to Net-Zero by Mid-Century? Even Some Global Oil and Gas Giants Think it Can Be Done A report by a ...
    1 week ago
  • Tax cuts for all!!! (except you, you, and you)
    With the National Party this week announcing a new policy of tax cuts to spice up the election campagin. MyThinks went along to the launch and afterwards we spoke to the party’s finance spokesperson Paul “Golden Touch” Goldsmith. MT: Thanks for speaking to us Mr Goldsmith. PG: No. Thank you. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    1 week ago
  • Great Waves Washing Over New Zealand
    Always to islanders danger Is what comes over the seas ‘Landfall in Unknown Seas’ (Allen Curnow)Six economic issues external to New Zealand, which will greatly impact upon us. 1.         The Diminishing Global Dominance of the US. Since 1941 America has dominated the world economically and politically. Probably it could ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand has role to play in resolving crisis on ‘geopolitical fault line’, Helen Clark says
    By Geoffrey Miller New Zealand should continue to champion human rights in Belarus amidst an ongoing crackdown on protests by the country’s regime, former Prime Minister Helen Clark says. Protests in the country often referred to as ‘Europe’s last dictatorship’ erupted after the country’s disputed presidential elections on August 9 ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    2 weeks ago
  • Euthanasia referendum: How to cut through the emotions
    Jacqui Maguire, registered clinical psychologist This podcast episode highlights how difficult it is to have effective conversations about euthanasia due to how polarised people’s views are. I’m a clinical psychologist, with a passion for science communication. In early 2020 I founded the podcast Mind Brew, with an aim to make psychological ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Why we need cameras on boats
    In case anyone needed further convincing, there's another example today of why we need cameras on fishing boats: reported seabird bycatch doubled during a camera trial: Commercial fishers operating off Auckland's coast around vulnerable seabirds are twice as likely to report accidentally capturing them when cameras are on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Graham Adams: The religious right’s campaign to spike the euthanasia referendum
    In the leadup to the euthanasia referendum, an array of conservative Christian political organisations is running an expensive campaign to sow doubt about the safety of assisted dying. Graham Adams argues that these religious forces know that Christian arguments aren’t convincing the public, but that it is in the public ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    2 weeks ago
  • Opportunistic looting
    The National Party has spent the last six months acting horrified at the cost of supporting people through the pandemic and banging on about how the debt must be repaid. So what was their economic policy released today? Massive tax-cuts for the rich, of course! National has walked back ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Uncomfortable Choices.
    Dangerous Times: This will be the choice confronting those coming of age in the 2020s. Embrace Neoliberalism’s belief in racial and sexual equality; adopt its secular and scientific world view; and cultivate the technocratic, multicultural, global outlook required of those who keep the machinery of hyper-capitalism humming. Or, throw your ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Tony Burton: Covid and benefit payments
    It would be a great time to reform the benefit system, according to former Deputy Chief Economic Advisor at the Treasury, Tony Burton. He argues the complexity of benefit system means that it’s failing to achieve its difficult three core objectives, which form an “iron triangle”.   New Zealand’s benefit ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking tax: How to win support for taxing wealth
    Tax Justice UK, September 2020 Serious tax reform is on the political agenda for the first time in decades due to the coronavirus crisis. As this debate hots up it is important to understand what people think about public spending, wealth and tax. Tax Justice UK, along with Survation and ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • Getting Tough.
    Not Mucking Around: With upwards of 800 dead from the virus’s resurgence in the Australian state of Victoria, leniency is not on Premier Daniel Andrews’ agenda. The Victorian Police are cracking down hard on the protesters the Australian press has labelled "Covidiots".IMAGES OF POLICE, some in riot gear, others on ...
    2 weeks ago

  • Job numbers up in August
    New data from Stats NZ today shows a rise of more than 9,000 filled jobs from July – driven mostly by the education and training sector, Grant Robertson says. Filled jobs were up 9,147 to 2.2 million in August 2020 compared with July – with 7,409 of those in education ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Māori development receives funding
    Māori development projects across the country will receive a total of $18.8 million from the Provincial Growth Fund that will create infrastructure and permanent jobs, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “These projects will support economic development in Northland, Bay of Plenty, Tairawhiti, Manawatū-Whanganui, Waikato and Southland to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Hand-up for owners of earthquake-prone units
    From today, owner-occupiers of unit and apartments living in earthquake-prone buildings can apply for financial support to fix their homes, Minister for Building and Construction Jenny Salesa says. The Residential Earthquake-Prone Building Financial Assistance Scheme will help unit owners facing financial hardship over earthquake strengthening costs. “We understand how complicated ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • PGF backing successful Māori enterprise
    Whanganui will benefit from a Provincial Growth Fund investment in a local food-processing company which will help the company increase production and create jobs, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. Kii Tahi Ltd, which is owned by South Taranaki iwi Ngaa Rauru Kiitahi, will receive a Provincial Growth Fund ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Hokitika Landmark earmarked for $22m restoration
    Seddon House in Hokitika, once a hub for government on the West Coast, has been earmarked for government use once again. “Today we’re announcing a $22 million investment from the Government’s $3 billion infrastructure fund for shovel ready projects for the purchase and restoration of Seddon House in the heart of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Town halls and war memorials in PGF renovation programme
    Town halls, war memorials and other community landmarks across the country will be renovated thanks to grants totalling just under $12.4 million from the Provincial Growth Fund. Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says more than 1000 jobs are expected to be created during the renovation programme. “Town halls, other ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister of Foreign Affairs makes two diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced two new diplomatic appointments: •         Michael Appleton as New Zealand’s first resident High Commissioner to Sri Lanka. •        Tredene Dobson as New Zealand’s next Ambassador to Viet Nam.  Sri Lanka “New Zealand is opening a post in Colombo in 2021 because we are ready ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ’s most prestigious conservation award – Loder Cup presented to Graeme Atkins
    The Minister of Conservation Minister, Eugenie Sage, today presented Aotearoa New Zealand’s most prestigious conservation award, the Loder Cup, to the 2020 winner Graeme Atkins while in Gisborne/Tūranga-nui-a-Kiwa. “Graeme Atkins of Ngāti Porou is a Department of Conservation ranger whose contribution to conservation goes well above and beyond his employment,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early help for whānau who need extra support
    The Government is investing in a new, whānau-centred early intervention prototype designed to strengthen families and improve the safety and wellbeing of children. The new programme, Ngā Tini Whetū, is a collaboration between Oranga Tamariki, Te Puni Kōkiri, ACC and the Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency (WOCA) and was announced today ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Parliament to install solar and cut carbon
    Parliament is leading by example by taking action to cut its carbon footprint by installing solar and improving energy efficiency, the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw said today. The Minister confirmed that Parliamentary Services will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to install solar PV and LED ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Tuvalu Language Week theme promotes community resilience in the face of COVID-19
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says the 2020 Tuvalu Language Week theme of “Fakatili Te Kiloga Fou” which means “Navigating the changing environment” is a call on all Pacific peoples to be strong and resilient in the face of COVID-19. “This theme is a reminder to us ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • International sport back up and running in New Zealand
    The Government is welcoming today’s announcement that the West Indies and Pakistan cricket teams will tour New Zealand this summer.  “A lot of hard work has been undertaken by sports officials including New Zealand Cricket, Netball New Zealand and government officials to ensure that international sport can return safely to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 1BT funds for Northland forest taonga
    Northland’s indigenous tree canopy is set to grow for the benefit of mana whenua and the wider community thanks to nearly $2 million in One Billion Trees funding, Forestry Minister Shane Jones announced today. Te Komanga Marae Trust has received more than $1.54 million to restore and enhance the native ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Better health care for West Coasters as Te Nikau Hospital officially opened
    The Government has delivered a new hospital for Greymouth and is starting work on a much needed new health centre in Westport, ensuring local communities will benefit from better access to high quality integrated health services. Today, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Associate Health Minister Peeni Henare officially open Te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government backing local with PGF loan
    A West Coast distillery will benefit from a Provincial Growth Fund investment that will enable it to expand its operations and create jobs in the town of Reefton, Rural Communities Minister Damien O’Connor and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones have announced. The Reefton Distilling Co will receive a $928,000 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Primary sector exports and jobs up again
    Primary sector exports and jobs are up again, demonstrating the sector’s underlying strength amid the COVID-19 global pandemic and US-China trade war, and supporting New Zealand’s economic recovery. Stats NZ today reported New Zealand’s merchandise exports in August were up 8.6% on a year ago, driven by an increase in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Clean energy future for more schools
    Schools across Aotearoa New Zealand will be supported by the Government to upgrade to run on clean energy, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. The Minister has allocated $50 million from the Clean Powered Public Service Fund to replace, or convert, coal boilers in schools with clean ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Building business strength with digital tools
    New training and tools for digital commerce will give small businesses, especially in the tourism sector, the support they need to adapt and innovate in a COVID world. Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis and Small Business Minister Stuart Nash have announced details of how $20 million digital capability funding set aside ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New pest lures to protect nature
    The Department of Conservation (DOC) is investing $1.4 million to develop new predator lures that would be game-changers for trapping and surveillance towards a predator-free Aotearoa, the Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage, announced in Christchurch today. The proposal is to develop long-life lures attractive to a range of predators—rats, mustelids ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Support for innovative Pacific education responses to COVID-19 needs
    Supporting new and creative Pacific education practices as part of our COVID-19 response and recovery is the focus of a new $28.5 million Pacific Education Innovation Fund announced today by Associate Minister of Education Jenny Salesa.  “There is already an incredible amount of innovative and creative work going on in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Eligibility expanded for COVID-19 leave support
    The expanded scheme will cover: People who have COVID-19 like symptoms and meet the Ministry of Health’s criteria, and need to self-isolate while awaiting the results of a COVID-19 test. People who are directed to self-isolate by a Medical Officer of Health or their delegate or on advice of their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Seasonal work visa available to more people
    The Government is putting in place a range of immigration policy changes to help fill labour shortages in key industries while ensuring New Zealanders, who have lost jobs due to COVID-19, have the chance to find new employment. “Two key sectors we are moving to help are horticulture and wine ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • More border exceptions for critical roles
    The Government has established class exceptions for border entry for a limited number of veterinarians, deep sea fishing crew, as well as agricultural and horticultural machinery operators. “Tight border restrictions remain the backbone of the Government’s border strategy to protect New Zealand against COVID-19 and ensure New Zealand citizens and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Crown will not appeal Dodds v Southern Response decision
    The Crown will not appeal the Court of Appeal decision in the Dodds v Southern Response case, Grant Robertson announced today. “Southern Response will be paying the damages awarded by the Court to Mr and Mrs Dodds shortly. The Crown was already meeting their legal costs for this appeal. “The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Crucial PGF investments for Northland
    The Provincial Growth Fund is investing nearly $30 million in a diverse range of projects that will create immediate and long-term jobs and lift economic and social outcomes for Northland and its people. Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones made the announcement today in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • $27million investment in global vaccine facility
    The Coalition Government has committed to invest $27 million in COVID-19 vaccine development through the global COVAX Facility, Foreign Minister Winston Peters announced today. “The COVAX Facility is a key part of our COVID-19 Vaccine Strategy to obtain safe and effective vaccines. It allows us to invest in a high-quality, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government backing Māori landowners
    The Government will provide up to $1.69 million through the One Billion Trees programme to Māori landowners to make their whenua more productive through the planting of forests, both native and exotic, and improve economic and environmental outcomes, Forestry Minister Shane Jones has announced. “Around 1.5 million ha of land ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New tools to make nature more accessible
    People planning to head outdoors now have a resource that lets them know how accessible an area is for people with varying levels of mobility, Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage announced today. The Halberg Foundation, Sensibel, and the Department of Conservation (DOC) have launched Accessibel, a new tool which helps ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • PGF makes Māori history more accessible
    One of the most significant battle sites of the 1860s Land Wars will receive $2.96 million from the Provincial Growth Fund to improve the site and help tell the New Zealand story to visitors, Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta and Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones have announced. Nanaia Mahuta ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Making it official: The journey of te reo Māori | Kia whakapūmautia: Ngā piki me ngā heke o te r...
    The journey towards recognising Māori as an official language and taonga has been captured as a web series and launched today during Te Wiki o te Reo Māori, announced Associate Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni. “Te reo Māori is a living language, and understanding its significance, and pathways to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Better-than-forecast GDP reflects decision to protect New Zealand
    Today’s better-than-forecast GDP figures show the expected impact of the decision to act quickly to protect New Zealanders from the global COVID-19 pandemic. GDP fell 12.2% in the June quarter from March, reflecting decisions to close New Zealand’s borders and enter Alert Level 4. “This result was better than the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Boost for COVID-19 related Pacific education needs
    The Government is investing $39.7 Million over four years to support the educational needs of Pacific learners and families in the regions hardest hit by COVID-19, with Auckland getting an immediate boost, Associate Minister of Education Jenny Salesa says.   “Like all New Zealanders Pacific families want learners to do well ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • More resources for kiwi conservation
    New Zealand’s goal of 100,000 kiwi by 2030 is being helped by an extra $19.7 million in funding to accelerate iwi and community efforts to protect kiwi, Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage announced. “$19.7 million of Jobs for Nature funding is being invested in kiwi conservation activities including increased predator ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Improving access to affordable electricity
    Ensuring New Zealanders can get the best deal on their electricity takes a step in the right direction today with the South Island launch of the EnergyMate pilot run by the Electricity Retailers’ Association, says Minister of Energy and Resources, Dr Megan Woods. EnergyMate is an industry-led programme providing coaching ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government achieves 50 percent women on state boards
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter announced today that the Government has reached its target of 50 percent on women on state sector board and committees – setting a new record level of women on state sector boards. “This Government is committed to having more women in leadership roles - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Record transport investment to help economic recovery and save lives
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford released today the final Government Policy Statement on land transport (GPS) 2021 which outlines the planned $48 billion investment in services and infrastructure over the next decade. “The final GPS supports our Government’s five-point plan for economic recovery by confirming our record investments in transport infrastructure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Advancing clean energy technology
    Three ambitious and cutting-edge research programmes that will lift New Zealand’s advanced energy technology research capability over seven years, have been supported by Government today, says Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods. The projects will each receive a share of $40.7 million investment from the Strategic Science Investment Fund. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Major milestone reached in Pike River Re-entry
    The critical area for forensic examination known as Pit Bottom in Stone has been reached in what is a major milestone for the Pike River re-entry project, Minister Responsible for Pike River Re-entry Andrew Little announced. “The infrastructure located in Pit Bottom in Stone is of very significant interest in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Economic recovery guides Govt response to retirement income policy review
    The Government is working on how New Zealand’s retirement income policies and settings can best support Kiwis in light of the COVID-19 economic recovery, with the help of the Retirement Commissioner’s latest review, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said. “The Retirement Commissioner’s three-yearly review into New Zealand’s retirement ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Iwi community hub opens in Murupara
    A new digital hub and development centre in Murupara will be instrumental in growing the region’s productivity, said Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau at the official opening of two community initiatives today. “I’m pleased to be here celebrating a significant milestone for two projects set to make a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago