Perhaps the NZ Police should do their frigging job properly!

Written By: - Date published: 10:23 pm, November 7th, 2013 - 282 comments
Categories: accountability, child abuse, crime, police, Politics - Tags: ,

Apparently the police don’t like this image. I really can’t see why not. They have been sitting on complaints about a pack of juvenile rapists of children for 2 years – why? This parody offers a reason by way of satire.

A parody of the force

If the police don’t like it, then they are welcome to attempt their usual harassment of activists. It isn’t anything that I haven’t seen before. That, like this image, are purely political. Just as this post and bomber’s post were. I say this because we know that they have a hard time dealing with politicians. Ask John Banks.

Quite simply the police have a hard job. But they also have a terrible reputation for both ignoring many of the things that are important (like rape) while concentrating on trivialities like idiots bullshitting whilst drunk – ie Operation 8.

Now I’m sure that some apologist will state that I should wait for the toothless “Independent Police Conduct Authority” to come to some judgement. However they are both obstructed by the police and their judgements are simply ignored by the police. Just look at this example story about the police breaking a neck when a group of bored police unlawfully dragged someone out of a party and broke their neck when they batoned them.

Let me make this quite clear. Clear enough for some blockhead in the Police Comms unit to understand. This image is a satire, a parody, and an example of a political statement about the role that the NZ Police are currently taking in our society. It isn’t a good image (in all senses of the word). But the conduct of the Police in this case has and still is pretty damn bad. Their actions in many cases recently has been outright appalling, inept, and reeks of criminal stupidity. In fact it is so much the same as the behaviour of these juvenile dickheads, that it is hardly surprising that they could be regarded as good recruits for the police.

If the police wish to censor this image here as they have with Bomber, then they will have to arrest me. Their grasp of the law is both limited and in this case quite wrong. I’m prepared to spend years running their bad name through the courts to prove it. I will also attempt to run a prosecution against the arresting officer for some kind of malfeasance or whatever other rhubarb charge I can make their life hell with. Also their conspirators who get involved in an attempt to discourage political discourse… After all I am merely following the fine example of the NZ Police.

BTW: I’m really not a fan of the NZ Police after they used a bogus charge of “intimidation by loitering” when my activist niece attended a noisy but peaceful and lawful protest. Nor the threats by some officers that if she continued to attend protests that they’d try to take my grand-nephew away from her. It irritates me a bit…

Listening to their inactive conduct in this rapist case makes me more irritated. Anyone with younger kids in their extended family will feel the same.

Update: Just for good measure. Here is the NZ Herald this morning. Perhaps they can do their frigging jobs as well.

God help us all

282 comments on “Perhaps the NZ Police should do their frigging job properly! ”

  1. QoT 1

    At this point I’d almost support the theory that someone in the Police’s own legal team is deliberately sabotaging them. I cannot fathom how else anyone thought this was a good idea.

    Formal complaint of rape? Sit on it for two years.
    Bomber posts a shitty meme about you? LEGAL SANCTIONS.

    • lprent 1.1

      Anyone that tries to arrest me for this will be personally in court for several years with a private prosecution for whatever the law is for unlawful detention/arrest. After all, the preamble to the police act piously states that the police are just citizens…

      • King Kong 1.1.1

        Man you are so tough.

        If the cops come a knocking, don’t forget to tell them that you have an MBA and also did some papers on earth sciences. They will be so scared they wouldn’t dare.

        The police have either got to create some evidence so a prosecution will stick or crack the heads of some of these girls until they agree to make a formal complaint.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          Get off your knees. It’s called an injunction. As in “this arrest warrant is subject to a high court injunction pending judicial review”.

        • lprent

          They actually don’t have to create a case. They already have one. These roasted clowns have admitted everything from intent to action on the net. All the police have to do is to show that the events in fact happened to win a case.

          • King Kong

            “All the police have to do is to show that the events in fact happened to win a case”

            Perhaps all you armchair Columbo’s might like to lend us your expertise on how the Police might do this.

            Interview witnesses and talk to the victims you might say…pretty sure they have already done this and were unable to establish any real proof.

            Lprent, I think the fact that you have criminals in your family is clouding your objectivity.

            • Pascal's bookie

              Go see a judge, get Intercept orders on these guys phones for a month. Grab their hard drives.

              they were aware of the website and talked to some members. How tough was that talk. Certainly with the members who weren;t minors they could have used tough interview techniques.

              Do we really think that police interviewers couldn’t get one member of this group of teenagers to roll over given the sort of charges they’d be facing?

              “Your mates are talking, you should to” and variations thereof goes along way.

              That could have been done two years ago.

              • King Kong

                Good point. Thank God that we have the amended GCSB bill to help do this kind of thing now.

                • NickS


                  Except it was already legal to do so with the appropriately done set of warrants.

                  • Pascal's bookie

                    And they were doing it anyway even though it was illegal. But only for serious crimes like money laundering, drugs, and copyright infringement

                    • King Kong

                      Planning armed terrorist raids as well. Don’t forget that one.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      Or not, as the case may be.

                      Lots of things then, but not rape. Rape, they don’t give too much of a shit about.

                    • King Kong

                      Maybe they should start bugging everyone that buys a balaclava and certainly any bloke who buys peach schnapps or wine coolers in any large quantity.

                    • Lanthanide

                      Which just goes to show, KK, that you’re part of rape culture.

                    • Pascal's bookie


                    • King Kong

                      Actually I am part of Maori culture. Many on here, whilst too scared to say it, might think that they are the same thing.

                    • felix

                      “Maybe they should start bugging everyone that buys a balaclava and certainly any bloke who buys peach schnapps or wine coolers in any large quantity.”

                      Or, and this may seem like a bit of stretch, but maybe they should start bugging everyone who runs a rape website where they brag about being a rapist and has had several complaints of rape against them.

                      Just a thought.

            • lprent

              Interview witnesses and talk to the victims you might say…pretty sure they have already done this and were unable to establish any real proof.

              Even winning a case isn’t required. All the police have to do is to bring the charges. There is more than ample evidence to do that. What is the bet that once they start dragging the dickheads through the courts then they will all turn on each other? In much less time than the year of monthly status hearings.

              It is the standard police tactic. So why haven’t they employed it in this case?

              Incidentally by the sound of it, you sound like a apologist for this dickhead rapists? Perhaps you’d explain why?

              • King Kong

                “you sound like a apologist for this dickhead rapists? ”


                • QoT

                  Nope, just someone who has a very deep interest in not focusing society’s criticisms on rapists. Probably out of the kindness of your own heart.

            • aerobubble

              Its called a search warrant, Campbell asked the Police how many they had. I ask you, is it reasonable for a judge to allow a search warrent if young men are openly brazenly admitting rape and young women are formal and informally coming forward? That enough.

          • Rogue Trooper

            Simon Moore (crown prosecutor) claimed the web statements as admissible as a confession.

        • fender

          Boy you are so weak…

          “….crack the heads of some of these girls….”

          Don’t see more violence being useful at this stage, ape shit.

          • idlegus

            the point king kong, for me, is if the police didnt bring charges because they thought the girls couldnt win their rape case (coz of our dire justice system in regards to sexual violence), why did they then not warn the schools or such like of this ‘rape club’?

        • miravox

          “The police have either got to create some evidence so a prosecution will stick or crack the heads of some of these girls until they agree to make a formal complaint.”

          Apart from the inappropriate ‘crack the heads’ comment when talking about the police, and ‘creating evidence’… I’m sure they’d never do that…

          You might have missed that bit that four girls already have made (what they thought were) formal complaints. One made an evidential complaint, according to the police.

      • xtasy 1.1.2

        lprent – You have my FULL SUPPORT! I am sure you have some good legal advice, as there are some very good lawyers around in Auckland, and some actually follow some principles and believe in freedom of expression and citizen’s rights, and other rights of course.

        By the way, the cops are often more “bluff” than action, when it comes to taking such matters to court!

    • Tat Loo (CV) 1.2

      I do wonder if their comms team who contacted Bomber had actually talked this through properly with their legal team. And any comms team with even one ounce of PR training should know that threatening the media with court action right now as an opening step, given current events, is as frakking stupid as it gets.

      • weka 1.2.1

        It’s possible that the comms team don’t consider that Bradbury is part of the media, think that blogs are irrelevant, and also don’t understand how the internet works.

        Or, Bomber touched a very sensitive nerve and someone reacted extremely stupidly.

        Listening to Tamihere and Jackson today, I thought about how many older men can relate with the Roast Busters, because that’s how they were when they were that age. It’s likely that some of these men will have acted in the same way as the RBs, sans the internet/social media. They won’t want to be thinking of themselves as rapists. Some of those men will now have daughters the age of the current victims. That’s a pretty potent brew for denial, psychological stress and cognitive dissonance. Bomber’s satire was very pointed and would make many police uncomfortable. I can see it would also make some very angry or reactive.

        • miravox

          In a nutshell, weka.

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          Yep. All credible possibilities.

          I thought about how many older men can relate with the Roast Busters, because that’s how they were when they were that age.

          By the sounds of it “that age” was perhaps 15 or 16, if the Roast Buster boys started out 2 years ago. Think about that for a moment.

          And we know for certain that a lot of 14 and 15 year olds have had sex. Ministry of Health figures suggest that maybe 1 in 5 young people have had sex by the age of 15. So that’s tens of thousands of young people, right there. And resorting to the justice system as the primary way to handle say a 17 year old for having an ongoing mutually consenting sexual relationship with a 15 year old partner not that many months away from turning 16 would’ve meant that quite a few people I knew or knew of in high school (mostly males but not always) would’ve started out their young lives with a criminal record with lots of families on public display in the local newspaper.

          IMO the Roast Busters were doing something distinctly different to this, and clearly much more problematic. While waiting for the police and criminal justice system to do its thing, some hard questions are going to have to be asked as to how the society we have created is treating and conditioning our young people. Its fair to say that we’re doing a crap job for a lot of our younger citizens. And Louise Nicholas was spot on when she said that the guys involved with Roast Busters need serious psychological help.

          • weka

            Yes, I wasn’t talking about middle aged men who had underage sex as teens. As far as I know the law and police turn a blind eye to statuatory rape where there isn’t a large age difference and where sex appears to be consensual (although how we can believe that the NZ Police know what consensual is, I don’t know).

            I was talking about middle aged men who as older teens got younger women drunk so they could fuck them without resistance. Or pressured them to have sex. Or took part in shaming girls who didn’t do what they wanted, or did do what they wanted. Or supported mates who were boasting about having gang banged a girl. etc. Most of those men wouldn’t have seen anything wrong with what they or their mates did, but some of them will now be facing the prospect that they did in fact rape someone. No-one talks about this shit.

            I agree that the rape club men need something, and there is a conversation still to come about that (not sure we are quite there yet). I’m with how they still have the opportunity to change and to start to make amends. And how it is that men like Tamihere and Jackson haven’t, how entrenched their fucked-up-ness is, and how much they will have been influencing the young men in their lives.

            btw, I thought Hales was now 19 and that when people refer to him as 17 they’re talking about when he was raping women who were 13 at the time.

            • Pete

              Society needs to go back to first principles and develop a general understanding of what consent is.

              • Tat Loo (CV)

                Which starts with respect for oneself and respect for others. Understanding what consent is, is irrelevant (actually it is impossible) unless that basis is there.

        • Rogue Trooper

          that is interesting weka. I had been thinking how ‘normal’ it was for 15 / 16 year-old boys to be having ongoing sexual relationships with 13-16 year-old girls when I was a teen.
          “Blocking” was a very common occurrence in a variety of late-teen, early 20’s social milieus.
          Was a chilling reflection, for a bit.

          • weka

            What is ‘blocking’?

            “I had been thinking how ‘normal’ it was for 15 / 16 year-old boys to be having ongoing sexual relationships with 13-16 year-old girls when I was a teen.”

            Sounds normal to me. People mature sexually at different rates. Sexually active teens is normal. The problem is when they don’t have the support and socialisation to do that in safe, well-being enhancing ways.

            • Rogue Trooper

              blocking, from ‘on the block’ = 1 girl (usually), one male after another (pulling a train). Was very common at parties in the eighties, not my cup-of-tea, a serial monogamist me.

      • King Kong 1.2.2

        42,000 cases handled professionally and competently every year by some dedicated, honest and hard working police men and woman and you think it is ok to tar them all as rapists.

        Now that is stupid in my book.

        • Pascal's bookie

          No one tarred them all as rapists.

          But the management hasn’t fixed the institution, and now they are saying there is nothing wrong, when quite clearly there is.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          If the poster did that you might have a point but it doesn’t so you don’t.

          42,000 you say? How many 13-year-olds asked what they were wearing?

        • lprent

          How many serious charges were dropped before going to trial (but often after months going to court)? I’ll give you a hint. It is typically many times those making it to trial.

          How many charges were plea bargained to guilty when the lawyer explained that they’d spend a year waiting for a day in court with an appearance required every month.

          How many cases taken to the high court on appeal are overturned because the police simply laid the wrong charge?

          How many times has a court dismissed a case before hearing the defence because a police officer was clearly lying? It is kind of satirical in their own way. The accounts of arresting police officers often don’t match up in court.

          Reading the detail on rocky’s cases and those of other activists – these happen way more often than getting convictions. Note that many of them will not show up in your propaganda number.

          Basically, like you, the police management take a rather simple view of how to read statistics. They conveniently skip over the more interesting details.

          In particular how many cases did they not lay charges where they should have? Like the Roast rapists? The police never seem to have even heard of quality assurance systems.

        • framu

          “you think it is ok to tar them all as rapists.”

          yeah just carry on inventing shit and refusing to actually understand the issue

          werent you minimising rape on dimpost the other day?

        • Varity

          1 13 year old girl raped and fobbed off! what are we living in dubai now?

          what don’t you get about this King Kong … a thirteen year old girl was RAPED and violated! what part of that horrendous crime is not resonating in your tiny little brain ffs!????

          your heros are complicit in this crime cause they’ve done NOTHING to stop it! if self-videoed confessions aren’t enough … what the hell is!? the police have done nothing but lie, lie, lie throughout this whole ordeal … and we’re suppose to believe them now? i don’t fucking think so!

      • jaymam 1.2.3

        From the police website: “The General Manager of Public Affairs is Karen Jones. Before joining Police in February 2013, Karen was Head of Communications and Government Relations for NZ Lotteries, a senior executive-level position she held since 2007.”

        So how is public relations experience at NZ Lotteries in any way relevant to doing a real job that requires competent people?

        • Treetop

          “So how is public relations experience at NZ Lotteries in any way relevant to doing a real job that requires competent people?”

          There are winners and losers when it comes to gambling. Win win maybe too hard a concept.

      • QoT 1.2.4

        I would really doubt that this was a pure comms team decision. More likely a legal team decision *without* talking to their comms people. Or, as I said, they did talk to comms and someone in the comms team has a career deathwish.

        • QoT

          Ah, my apologies: I have now read that it was the Marketing Manager Recruitment who sent the threat. So … yeah, what a clusterfuck.

  2. Chris 2

    This abominable Minister isn’t helping matters. She needs to stfu.

    • Tat Loo (CV) 2.1

      I suggest she is simply repeating what either the police or Crown Law have told her.

      • Chris 2.1.1

        🙂 that would make a great Tui billboard

        but they told me to say that.

        oops I forgot the Yeah right

  3. Rhinocrates 3

    Got lots of stories, and not “better” ones either, from people known directly to me.

    Serial rape by a non-sworn police employee followed by stalking of victim and her children using police resources (I’ve seen the stalking first hand). Sexual harassment of a female officer forcing her exit from the force (seen the results… including a substance abuse problem). Assault resulting in permanent brain damage (personal report). Assault leaving scars (seen them). Physical intimidation and threat of rape at a peaceful protest (told of it by someone I trust).

    And more.

    I will not post anything that will allow identification of the victims because in at least one of the cases it has been shown that the gang in blue will follow up on their grudges.

    • monty 3.1

      Its not often i venture to retort, every person has a version and you need both sides to get an understanding of the exact of nature of what occurred.

      However Police officers are punched, spat at, stabbed, shot and killed in the line of duty, they do it all protecting turkeys like you.

      Do you go to work with he constant threat that this may happen to you. These brave men and women do.

      I am sure in time all the facts will come and if there is a case these turkeys will face the prison time.

      But to attack and label every police officer as corrupt or part of a culture of encouraging sexual offending is ludicrus.

      They may make mistakes but most of them are there to protect and serve the community.

      • Rhinocrates 3.1.1

        and you need both sides to get an understanding of the exact of nature of what occurred.

        Ah, so they were asking for it?

        I am sure in time all the facts will come and if there is a case these turkeys will face the prison time.

        Really? You really believe that? You must have had a very sheltered life.

        However Police officers are punched, spat at, stabbed, shot and killed in the line of duty, they do it all protecting turkeys like you.

        Some also happen to do that to innocent civilians and their own spouses – and are protected by their mates.

        They may make mistakes but most of them are there to protect and serve the community.

        Which they are failing to do, obviously.

        Rape is a “mistake”? is it? “Whoops, I raped you – sorry, didn’t mean it, I must have tripped and fallen on you.” “Oh dear, I’ve been stalking you – don’t know how that happened.” “Violently assaulted you causing brain damage – dearie me, don’t know my own strength.”

        Perhaps you should have said “mischief”?

        • monty

          I never said rape was a mistake, I mean tthe Police make mistakes and we can only hope they discovered and re investigated. Have you never made a mistake, i certainly have.

          In every case there are two versions and they need to be looked at and then understand the exact nature of what has occurred and work out the facts and determine guilt, which is the courts role – not yours, not mine.

          When i did i say they were asking for it.

          “Some also happen to do that to innocent civilians and their own spouses – and are protected by their mates”.

          I would guess that the post by Blips points out that the Police do prosecute those who do wrong. If they didnt he wouldnt had such a list.

          So you think it is ok that Police officers get assualted and killed then, nice world you live in. I personally think anyone being assaulted and hurt is abhorent and nobody should accept it and the courts need to deal the cases.

          So your firends who got hurt did they make a complaint, what was the circumstances, what are the subjective facts without taking a personal view on it.

          As I said above once you have the all the facts you make an informed decision.

          No i havent lived a sheltered life, I just respect that these men and woman go out every day and do the best they can. I am sure if you are in danger and being attacked you would be very happy and relieved to see the Police step inbetween you and danger to protect you.

          • Rhinocrates

            I would guess that the post by Blips points out that the Police do prosecute those who do wrong. If they didnt he wouldnt had such a list.

            In a pair of utterly asinine posts, that would possibly the stupidest statement. Look at the cops getting away scot free o that list! Look at the foot-dragging and revelations of coverups!

            So your firends who got hurt did they make a complaint, what was the circumstances, what are the subjective facts without taking a personal view on it.

            And that would run a close second.

            Do you know how many rapes make it as far as complaints… and how prudent it would be if the perp was a cop or police employee? Have you been living under a rock for the last week?

            As I said above once you have the all the facts you make an informed decision.

            I have rather more facts in these matters than you do, you sanctimonious clown.

            What am I supposed to ask women I’ve known for several years, “Well did you ask for it? Did he have a good reason?”

            So you think it is ok that Police officers get assualted and killed then

            A lie.

            Ohh, how much do you like those deep-fried baby burgers?

            I am sure if you are in danger and being attacked you would be very happy and relieved to see the Police step inbetween you and danger to protect you.

            I would indeed. I’d like to know that they would be there to do that and not be the perpetrators – but the events of the last week have shown that that is not so likely if you’re a young girl.

          • Rhinocrates

            the Police make mistakes and we can only hope they discovered and re investigated. Have you never made a mistake, i certainly have.

            Often I have returned library books late – that is a mistake. I have never raped anyone – that is a crime.

            Trivialising this is truly revolting.

      • Rhinocrates 3.1.2

        And where did I label every one as corrupt?

  4. Horace in the east 4

    A few months ago, I had a verbal stoush with my neighbour, an ex-navy man. He rang the cops. They came along and wanted to arrest me, even though I was inside my property at the time of the verbal spray, and was inside my house when the Police arrived.
    I asked them if they had a warrant. They ignored my request. They threatened to break the door down unless I let them in. I let them in, but refused to let them arrest me. Nothing violent, just verbal. So they tasered me.
    They arrested me, put me in custody, but refused to charge me with anything.They let me out the next morning And you think that there is justice in New Zealand. Four Police came to my house, because I objected to my neigbour poking his nose into my affairs. I’ve lived in the same house for over 20 years. He moved in about 4 years ago.
    A real toffee nosed Tory prick.
    I always thought sex with a ‘minor’ was a criminal offence, regardless; it seems the constabulary are happy to turn a blind eye to an injustice, if it involves those who are not influential.

  5. TheContrarian 5

    I’m not sure why you said “frigging” but I think this deserves a proper “Perhaps the NZ Police should do their fucking job properly!”

    • lprent 5.1

      I thought about it and a few other titles. However I decided against fucking because I really didn’t want to give them ideas that they should get 13 year old kids drunk and the fucking rape them.

      While most police are pretty damn good effective officers. There are some morons amongst them, some rather senior in the ranks, who might take my advice literally…

      So I toned it down so as not to give them any implied license.

  6. newsense 6

    The worry is that like other cases for example where arrests or in this case the threat of arrests are used as a tactic to stall or disrupt legitimate protest or democratic comment. When in this case and others the basis for the arrest or threat of arrest is dubious at best. That is not particularly democratic.

    Not that I think it is a particularly good image, and they are probably worried after the amount of investment in the brand ‘better work stories’, but as I/S said ‘Streisand Effect’. Nobody would have seen it outside a few activists or given it a second glance until…

    • Zorr 6.1

      I saw it this morning and thought “oh yeah – Daily Blog link whoring with shitty memes again”

      Now it’s something actually worth commenting on

      Why do we have Police again? Is it because the system is inherently violent and hilariously stupid?

      • lprent 6.1.1

        Pretty much my view. Lousy image that the police comms unit have now made worth more than the image itself.

        I was going to touch it up. But that’d give an excuse to say it has been modified and duck away. This better as it is.I located it on this site because it is easier to redistribute from there.

  7. Bill 7

    Nothing to say, just … 🙂

  8. Rhinocrates 8

    Hoorah lprent, but everyone, at the risk of being tedious, Rape Crisis and Women’s refuges need support. Don’t just be outraged, PLEASE donate:

    This is the Wellington branch. Their funding is critically low – please make a donation.

  9. tricledrown 10

    Royal enquiry soon as possible to clear up any past a present corruption in the police.
    A truly independent PCA.
    Also see if police are getting enough funding to do their job properly as per backroom cut backs.
    Also see if the organization is worlds best practice.
    Their have been many cases where murders have not been prosecuted successfully maybe its a resource issue time to have look.
    Video cameras should be standard police issue now as they can provide evidence ie in traffic on the beat and save police time.
    Alcohol wastes 50% + of police time .
    Nationals dropping of nearly all the reccomendations of the recent alcohol enquiry is leading to more unecessary crime.
    Voters should punish National for being soft on causes of crime.

  10. Seti 11

    If that is the original unedited meme, and section 49 of the Police Act is the one being used to threaten, then I don’t believe it contravenes the law in any case.

    (1)A person commits an offence who, without reasonable excuse, carries on an activity under an operating name that includes the word “Police” or the words “New Zealand Police”, in a manner likely to lead a person to believe that the activity is endorsed or authorised by the Police or any part of the Police.

    With the exception of “police” in the URL those specific words are not used. Perhaps take that out, maybe even blur the logo on the stab vest, and no problem.

    Also, “a manner likely to lead a person to believe that the activity is endorsed or authorised by the Police or any part of the Police” is unlikely to meet the threshold as it is obviously satirical.

    It’s not going anywhere and I’m surprised Bomber caved.

    • weka 11.1

      It probably better serves his purpose to say he’s being censored and bullied by the NZ Police, knowing full well that others will just post the image elsewhere.

    • felix 11.2

      The key phrase is “in a manner likely to lead a person to believe that the activity is endorsed or authorised by the Police or any part of the Police”.

      If the Police believe that “get better rape stories” is believable as something the Police would actually publish, then let them argue it.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 11.3

      No doubt they will find some thing in the ‘terrorism’ offences, since when you denigrate the police you aid the terrorists- some where ??

    • lprent 11.4

      From past experience with the police objections, it will mostly be the use of their logo that they are objecting to. They are however attempting to use a criminal charge to protect a trademark.

      Bomber would have “caved” because it makes the Colin Craig / Streisand effect more pronounced.

      • Rogue Trooper 11.4.1

        lol , the Colin Craig Effect , including sweaty palms and shifty eyes.

      • QoT 11.4.2

        I disagree. I find it really interesting that his first response was to take down the image, while publicizing the warning … and then after about three or four other bloggers said “fuck that, I’ll post it and they can have a go if they want” suddenly he’s got another post up saying “I will not be cowed!!!!”

        I think someone may have just got annoyed that the Streisand effect wasn’t only giving him pageviews.

  11. de Withiel 12

    Frankly, it looks like the NZ Police are indulging in a thuggish version of a Colin Craig moment.

  12. mickysavage 13

    The Streisand effect is strong on this one. Even the Herald is getting in on the Act

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 13.1

      The Herald is running headlines like “Teen Sex Scandal”: they’re in no position to criticise anyone else.

    • newsense 13.2

      Can you explain that cartoon? It makes the visual case that the police were there to support this victim in this case, which has been the case…It’s clear to us the reference to Bomber, but maybe not to the general public…

      One interpretation if you haven’t been aware of the bomber thing is that it is simply saying these boys were evil and it seems to suggest that the cops were supporting the victims.

      Which this makes clear is not the case:

      Still I think with the drinking rate and the rate of domestic abuse it would be naive to think this is an isolated incident and those frothing indignation should look in their local communities to make sure their children are in safe environments…

  13. Adrian 14

    The problem with the Police is that apparently that when the John Banks engineered amalagamation of Traffic and Police ( we’ve got a lot to thank that prick for ) a lot of the traffic officers went for the office jobs and climbed the promotion ladder. At the time the entry criteria for the Police was quite strict ( relatively, some real dipshits I knew made it in ) and any who failed went into the Traffic service, so much so that when they had to become Police Officers a huge number ( can’t remember exactly how many, but it was greater than 80% ) failed the transitional test, the Police had to take them anyway as the Police would have been hugely understaffed. This was all reported at the time as I remember reading it in the Dominion.

    • bad12 14.1

      Lolz, the problem with the Police is that they are a law unto themselves and will remain so until such time as a the Police Complaints Authority is made a truly independent body with the means and Legislation which allows it to undertake independent investigations and prosecutions of the Police,

      Such authority should also include the power to dismiss any Police from the force for bringing it into disrepute and such authority should also include being able to charge a group of police for an offence where one of their number has committed the offence but the other members have refused to give any indication of who that was…

      • dv 14.1.1

        Why not have the police registered by an independent body, that has the power to deregister them.
        Also why not make the registration renewable every say 5 years.
        And make it so no police person can be employed without registration.

    • Tim 14.2

      Quite true Adrian. I still reckon there’s a case for separation. There was a bit of a career path at one time too – from bus driver, to bus inspector to Traffic Cop (around that time, councils ran their respective traffic departments).
      Dipshits weren’t peculiar to the traffic divisions however. I well recall the exhaustion and frustration my ex-wife used to display coming home at night after a day involved in training at the Police College. It almost drove her to frikken drink! although she wouldn’t have gone near the Police Bar – does that still exist btw?) Looks to me though that the training has deteriorated rather than improved.

  14. Wayne 15

    Is this really sensible for The Standard. It is one thing to criticise the Police, but another to essentially show and promote active hostility toward them.

    Essentially the use of the poster here says the Police are just a bunch of criminals. Now of course everyone has free speech and some may be of that view.

    But my point here is that The Standard generally sets itself up as reflecting the broad left, which presumably at some level supports the police, as opposed to seeing them as reactionary forces of a hostile anti-democratic state. That of course is more the space of The Bomber, fair enough, that is his view. But I would not have thought it was the space of The Standard.

    I appreciate you are primarily standing up for The Bomber’s right of free speech, but in my view, you have done so in way that indicates you are actively hostile to the Police, not just in this specific instance, but generally.

    • felix 15.1

      “the broad left, which presumably at some level supports the police”

      I think you’ll find that such support does not extend as far as the level at which the Police as an institution appear to sanction, support, and cover up for rape and rapists.

      Frankly Wayne, you demean and diminish yourself to suggest it might.

      • Wayne 15.1.1


        Of course I am not suggesting that, as is obvious from my post. Naturally the Police will be criticized for their failings in this instance.

        My comment was about the way that this is done. Now of course I am more moderate than most people on this site, so I would inevitably frame my criticisms differently.

        However I appreciate that the blog sites have more robust criticism than newspapers. And I know The Standard is not The Borg.

        But at least for me, I think rebroadcasting the poster went too far, even if it is in defense of the Bomber, since at least for me, it is too much of an endorsement of the view that the police (as an institution) are no better a criminal gang. Many New Zealanders will naturally be critical of the police at the moment, but I suspect they will still have a basic trust in them.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          Attempting to suppress the image was the best way to ensure its re-publication. Not to mention illegal. Not to mention hostile. Not to mention cretinous.

          At this rate they won’t have any heads left to roll.

        • Pascal's bookie


          People have a right to expect competence from the police, and have been promised that this sort of thing wouldn’t happen again. And yet it has.

          The Police, as an institution, have a duty. It is by fulfilling that duty that they earn the respect. It is not earned simply by virtue of being ‘the police’. When they fail, repeatedly, to carry out that duty then it is quite appropriate for citizens to be direct about that failing.

          Criticising the institution of the police as it actually exists, serves as respect for what they ought to be. It is a demand that they live up to their duties.

          Failing to criticise them, or doing so in a polite and respectful way, sends the message that we are not all that upset. People are upset. You are saying that people are too upset. Get fucked with that.

          • felix


            Wayne, if you feel only moderately upset about the fact that we have a rapey police force, then by all means express yourself moderately.

            I for one am fucking livid.

    • Bill 15.2

      Hey Wayne, you suggesting that ‘the standard’ is kinda like The Borg? Y’know – like I’ve been assimilated and lost my ability for autonomous thought? I guess that was always going to be kind of difficult for me to recognise. Cheers for the headsup.

      • karol 15.2.1

        Beat me to it, Bill.

        And I thought part of Lynn’s position – stating that he is prepared to be arrested if the police want to take it that far – is that his identity is known, and he is taking a stand, making a protest on that basis.

      • Rogue Trooper 15.2.2

        ‘Resistance is Futile’

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 15.3

      Are you assigning an editorial philosophy to a machine, Dr. Mapp?

      It is the Police who are demonstrating hostility.

    • weka 15.4

      Not sure what you mean by active hostility there Wayne, but if you mean that people are really fucking angry at the NZ Police, then I can’t see the problem. If you listen to people’s experiences with the police, it’s understandable that so many of us are so angry.

      There seem to be two things here. One is the standard responding to an issue of freedom of expression, which you seem to support in principle. The other is the content of Bomber’s poster. Are you suggesting that the police don’t have problems with rape within their organisation as evidenced by Schollum, Rickards etc and subsequent investigations into the police as an organisation, and that they don’t have problems with how to do their job properly when it comes to sexual assault cases?

      The poster is very confrontational. It makes total sense that the police would be upset about this. But it also makes total sense that the poster accurately reflects both the situation in NZ and the mood of public opinion in the past week.

      There is a very serious issue here for the police, beyond their handling of the rape club case. Many people don’t trust them, and we’re seeing an increase in loss of public confidence in the police. They need to get their shit together on this fast. Threatening Bomber is not the way to increase public confidence. What Lynn has done is make that very very visible.

      • felix 15.4.1

        “Are you suggesting that the police don’t have problems with rape within their organisation as evidenced by Schollum, Rickards etc and subsequent investigations into the police as an organisation, and that they don’t have problems with how to do their job properly when it comes to sexual assault cases?”

        I think he’s suggesting that it’s a bit mean to talk about it.

      • Martin 15.4.2

        not to forget a process of militarisation with bigger and mor powerful weapons.

    • lprent 15.5

      The police are placed in a position of considerable trust by both the legislation and the public. They largely run as an organization on their own operational control and with minimal public oversight. Generally this has worked over the last century with various lapses mostly caused by the culture inside the police lagging the mainstream culture by decades.

      The judiciary and the armed forces show the same characteristics and for much the same reasons. Both of them have been steadily updating themselves.

      The police seem to have locked themselves inside a rather paranoid seige mentality, in my view largely as a result of the severe underfunding in the 80s and 90s. Quite simply they have been valuing cowboys of the type who like flashy things like operation 8. Their leaders don’t get promoted by doing their core jobs.

      Consequently they are getting less public support because their judgment is less in line with the public that they are there to protect and serve.

      And if people don’t tell them where they are screwing up in their perceptions of reality, then who is? They have already shown that they are not listening to the only oversight that they have at the IPCA.

      But authors and commenters here are equal opportunity critics – the 97 year old body of the NZLP has also received that same dose of reality recently. Welcome to the days of a reasonably responsible social media…

    • newsense 15.6

      Incorrect Dr Mapp.

      We are hostile to a police force that fails to do its job and shows incompetence and anti-democratic behaviour. The way to respond to a bully is to show a united front.

      The use of the poster does not say that the police are a bunch of criminals.

      The legitimacy of the police is not only a top down thing from their parliamentary authority, but also a bottom up thing from their relationships and responsiveness to the community. Here they have failed the community- first by ignoring complaints with the appearance of soft-shoeing an investigation into a son of their own, and secondly by threatening a legitimate, if excessive, response to that failure with prosecution when the grounds for that seem flimsy.

      You assume the police deserve support and respect as a right. It is earned from their actions in the community. It is unfortunate when a few cases drown out excellent work, but this is an extremely poor case.

    • Tim 15.7

      Not ACTIVELY hostile, nor hostile to ‘the Police’ at all – just to the culture and practices that are held onto to by some!
      There are some bloody good cops around the place – most of whom I expect are feeling rather let down by some of their colleagues.
      Personally, I think the NZ Police has its own worst enemy – in the shape of the head of their ‘association’ (i.e. union) – if only because he has an auto-response button that he pushes every time some of the asshole colleagues embarrass the force as a whole.
      BTW – I’ve noticed he’s remaining surprisingly quiet at the mo. I have my suspicions as to why that is – and it’s to do with the realisation that this whole affair is going to get worse – especially when frikken idiots try to muzzle those expressing their concerns.
      They really should stop digging that hole

  15. Ennui 16

    So now we have the splendid spectacle of the bloggers and web media of the Left calling for the Polices collective nuts, and Crusher along with Nacts collective harpies and demons calling for the same. Metaphorically the calls are for blood. So backed into the corner their PR people do what cops do (on our behalf mainly),they use a power position. After all, in reality they are the “enforcers” of society and government.

    Who amongst us would be a cop? Not me, front line with the social disaster that is NZ and responsible for every non prosecution, wrong prosecution, failed investigation, minor misdemeanor,,,,,,placed in positions where you eventually lose your rag. Everyone demanding perfection of you. Bugger that, who amongst you is “perfect”? I bet that Lprent, QoT, CV Mira, Weka et al have got their blotches, work with or associate with non performers, have their share of failures, to blames, fuck ups….to err is to be human. So for me to expect a cop individually or collectively to always respond appropriately…forget it. In this case they have completely stuffed up…whats new?

    Maybe something good may come out of this: the cops may change their stance are take the issues at question more far seriously. Or maybe they will just get resentful of being caught between doing the hard yards across the board and being told by us they are the bad guys. As somebody who has been on the receiving end of their batons, and been rescued from harm by them I want them to be a fair reflection of us who we can trust. I don’t feel that way now.

    So as we appear to have the Polices attention (or Bomber does)….the question becomes what message we send that is likely to hit home, make a change and get us a result? My suspicion is our haranguing the cops will only get us a millimeter or two for a few seconds. If we beat them severely might we just be teaching them a trick or two to use on us?

    • lprent 16.1

      I have been writing about the management issues inside the police for most of the last 6 years here. It is mostly a management issue about accountability rather than posturing. At present they tend to promote badly.

      They really need to upgrade their governance to the point that they start dealing with their mistakes and trying not make sure that they don’t repeat them all of the time.

      But their system is modeled on a 19th century militia rather than something in the 21st century. It shows in horrendous and well publicized failures of process..

      • Ennui 16.1.1

        Fair call: I have long thought that their practices and systems are somewhat arcane (I had the advantage of working with them researching years back to see at first hand).

        Governance and management is basically what I do….the reason you have to is because you are dealing with people. Experience tells me that no amount of rules and regs will get taken seriously unless the individuals “buy” in, and the group mentality (the collective culture) is changed from below.

    • weka 16.2

      “Metaphorically the calls are for blood.”

      Really? I haven’t seen that. Can you give some examples? (Lynn’s post certainly doesn’t call for police blood).

    • bad12 16.3

      My message???, resides simply in the appearance and therefor(at this point), the suspicion that way back at the first complaint to the Police by the 13 year old girl i suspect pretty quick smart that they(the police) ascertained that the son of one of their own was involved,

      My suspicion goes further to suggest that unbeknown to their ‘higher ups’ A or a number of Police members then decided to deter the young girl from proceeding with Her complaint by insinuating that such behavior was brought about by Her ‘dress’ and the further insinuation that She was told the sex appears to have been consensual,

      My suspicion is that had these young men not been from (a) a Police family,(b) the family of a famous actor,and (c) ‘good’ middle class families,(and i would like to see any links between all these families and the investigating officers in turn investigated), but instead, been from among the poorest of families in South Auckland suburbs a far different out-come to the first reported crime would have ensued…

      • Pete 16.3.1

        There’s also the fact that lack of consent is not the element that needs to be proved at trial. What needs to be proved is that the alleged offender did not believe consent was given. So we can get the situation where there is a victim for whom a rape did happen. They know that they did not consent and they carry the emotional scars from that event, yet the offender may have genuinely believed what happened was consensual.

        Sadly, in our legal system the victim’s view doesn’t matter. What matters in court is whether or not the rapist believed the sex was consensual. Which is why the victim’s clothing and behaviour is seen as relevant. Because even if the police accept that this is irrelevant, the defence will raise it in court. They have a duty to put the prosecution to proof in obtaining a conviction.

        What is troubling here is that the Roast Buster rapists have been very clear in demonstrating that they did not believe consent had been given. They have admitted stupifying their victims so they are incapable of giving consent. They have even called themselves rapists. The difficult part for the prosecution around establishing intent has been done. That the police have failed to build a case around this is a definite concern and a legitimate reason for a public loss of confidence in them.

        • bad12

          Pete, putting aside a prosecution for the moment, there need be a focus upon why, other than ‘lack of evidence’ the Police failed to either take the complaint seriously from the first victim, tried to place ‘blame’ on Her for the actions of those She was attempting to lay the complaint against,

          This has all the hallmarks of Louise Nicolls Part Two, and the fact that a Police officers son appears to have some involvement in this indicates that a far wider investigation is needed,

          Obviously i am not so naive as to believe that those ‘involved’ will not have since the furore over these young girls treatment became re hot, moved to get their ‘stories straight’…

          • Pete

            Oh, I agree absolutely. And my final paragraph wasn’t the only thing that troubles me about this whole situation. I just sometimes take a legalistic approach to processing issues like this.

        • Bill

          What needs to be proved is that the alleged offender did not believe consent was given.

          That… Head’s hurting.

          It….basically then, the more thoughtless, selfish, insensitive and fucked up are not, in the eyes of the law, capable of committing rape?

          • Pete

            There has been some effort to clarify issues around consent. But still, criminal offending in general relies on an offender having both a mental and a physical element to the crime. In rape, the mental element is the intention to have sex without the consent of the victim.

            • weka

              But presumably not knowing what the law is on consent isn’t a defense? eg the rapist can’t say I didn’t know that being really drunk meant that one can’t consent.

              • Pete

                No. Ignorance of the law is never a defence. And as I note below at, the prosecution must prove that the accused did not believe on reasonable grounds that consent was given. So circumstances do matter as far as the law is concerned – that’s really the only way a court can reasonably infer the intentions of the accused (aside from an admission).

        • weka

          “What needs to be proved is that the alleged offender did not believe consent was given.”

          Pete, is that in legislation?

          Re the rape club, is consent the only issue for the 13 year olds? I thought it’s also whether a degree of sexual contact took place that was unlawful. Someone posted the difference between various legalities of sex under 16, I’ll see if I can find it.

          What really needs to happen at this point is for an investigative journalist to do the leg work and outline what the issues are, legally and otherwise, and then put the rape club case in that context. Including the issues with the Police. At the moment too many of us are speculating and having to figure out stuff that should be easily in the public view, and the MSM is being its generally useless self.

          • weka

            Ok, just going to drop these cut and pastes here…

            Matthew Poole, in reply to BenWilson, 2 days ago

            “So the question is whether underage sex is unlawful sexual connection. Presumably it is.”

            It’s not. Unlawful sexual connection requires an absence of consent (or ability to give consent). Sex with a person under 16 exists as a specific charge so that consent cannot be a defence. Otherwise a 16-year-old who had consensual (but illegal) sex with their 15-year-old significant-other is in the same legal boat as the same 16-year-old who dragged the same 15-year-old into an alley and forced the matter. It’s why one has a 10-year penalty and one has a 20-year penalty.


            and this

            Matthew Poole, in reply to BenWilson, 3 days ago

            “They want these guys for rape.”

            Precisely. The cops will be gunning for a hefty chunk of 20 years rather than an equivalent chunk of 10 years. Why settle for sexual conduct with person under 16 when there’s sexual violation on the cards? The police don’t get to go for charge a and then come back again for charge b, and my understanding is that judges aren’t thrilled about multiple attempts to get warrants for the same set of offences.


            I don’t buy that myself (not after 2+ years). But there is an interesting conversation on that page about possible explanations from a legal perspective about why it would be hard for the police to bring charges.

            Idiot Savant, in reply to Rageaholic, 3 days ago

            “I genuinely don’t understand why no charges can be laid unless a victim makes a complaint.”

            Well, it makes it very difficult to bring a successful prosecution in a rape case (and its difficult enough when the victim is willing to testify, because rapists love to put their victims on trial). But given what’s been said publicly, they should be able to start with conspiracy to commit rape (7 year sentence) and move on from there.


          • Pete

            This is from Adams on Criminal Law – NZ’s foremost commentary on criminal law. There seems to have been some change since I completed my (now stale – I’ve never practiced) LLB in 2001. Now the mental element is that the accused did not believe on reasonable grounds that consent was given. But still, it’s mainly about what’s going on in the offender’s mind.

            CA129.02 Mens rea of attempted sexual violation
            In L v R [2006] 3 NZLR 291, (2006) 22 CRNZ 553 (SC), the Supreme Court held that the mens rea of attempted sexual violation is precisely the same as that required for the completed offence. At [25]:

            “Using a conventional case of attempted sexual violation by rape as an example, the Crown must prove: (1) that the accused tried to penetrate the complainant’s genitalia with his penis; (2) that the complainant did not consent to the intended penetration; and (3) that the accused did not believe on reasonable grounds that the complainant consented to the intended penetration.”

            The Supreme Court overruled the previous contrary decision in Shepherd v R HC Auckland T192/91, 20 February 1992, and emphasised at [23] that in relation to the third of these requirements:

            “The question is not whether the complainant consented to the conduct of the accused which constituted the attempt. Rather it is whether the complainant would have consented to the conduct which was necessary to constitute the full offence. In this respect, as a matter of principle, the focus must be on the prohibited act. The circumstances are unlikely to be such as will cause any practical difficulty for a jury.”

            See also R v Khan [1990] 2 All ER 783, [1990] 1 WLR 813 (CA), at 788; 819, per Russell LJ; R v Evans (1987) 30 A Crim R 262 (CA); R v Yen [2007] NZCA 203; [CA72.04].

            In R v Cassidy [2007] NZCA 573, at [37], the Court noted that even where lack of consent or reasonable belief in lack of consent plays no part in the trial (for example, where the defence is simply that the allegations are fabricated) the jury still had to be “satisfied as to those aspects before they could convict and should have been so instructed”.

        • Rogue Trooper

          Yes Pete.

    • Win 16.4

      But don’t you think they know all the tricks and more to use on us. They do have instruments of assault that we are unlikely to ever have access to. Some of what I call cowboy cops have used them on me. Nothing too harmful but still why use them? I could tell you a lot about what the cops have done and still do to me and my family for no obvious reason but you probably wouldn’t believe me. There is an ‘underbelly’ cop faction as well.

      • bad12 16.4.1

        Lolz, you do not need to publicize the ‘assaults’ nor the instruments of those ‘assaults’ here on the pages of the Standard to have us or more to the point myself believe what you are saying, feel free to do so tho while being mindful of the defamation/slander laws,

        Being from the ‘wrong side of the tracks’ i have had various dealings with Police since the age of 7 or 8, this includes seeing from 4 rows back the Police batoning grandmothers and schoolgirls in the front row of an anti-racist tours march in Molesworth Street as Minister of the then National Government looked on from the Parliaments balconies,

        i have a nice little ‘dent’ and ‘scar’ in the back of my head from a later encounter with a ‘team Policing unit’ so i know personally the unecessary and unlawful violence that some Police are quite capable of,

        But that’s not really the content and intent of this particular post is it…

    • miravox 16.5

      No, I don’t think I’ve called for blood, metaphorically or otherwise.

      I do think that if I mess up I expect to be criticised for it and not to have someone try cover for me. As an employer, I’m sure you expect the same of your employees.

      Who is holding them to account, Ennui, if not the public who they are meant to serve? Do you think anything would have been addressed if, when the press reported this, if the public just yawned?

      The police who did the cover-up/mess-up and didn’t report complaints up the line when this story broke seriously need to be called on it. If the officer who took the first statement wan’t able to do so properly this needs to be addressed – and the thrust of criticism of the police here, about the shelving of the Beazley report is quite valid, imo. (not that these points have previously been my focus in commenting on TS).

      I do call for a little bit of organisational soul searching about how sexual abuse complaints from young people are handled. That is not by any means the same as metaphorically calling for blood.

      • Ennui 16.5.1

        Holding them to account is good, we should be doing it. My point may be a little too subtle, it is HOW the message is delivered and what it is…..I want the Police to take it on board and change. Change as anybody who has tried to achieve it requires acceptance and persuasion.Which means dialogue that is not perceived as accusative or coercive. Like you and me the cops are people.

        • weka

          But it’s not like the things you suggest haven’t been tried. Over a long period of time. This is not a new thing that’s come out this week. It’s just not been talked about in the mainstream enough before.

    • QoT 16.6

      None of my “blotches” to date have involved watching shitstain rapists walk free.

      The police have been sent plenty of messages about their culture and actions, and by far more reasonable/independent/non-sweary people than me. They don’t appear to have learned anything so far.

      • Rhinocrates 16.6.1

        Exactly. Everyone look for the “a few bad apples” defence and fight it. Why are those bad apples still there? We’re not talking about a few corrupt officers and the supposed excuse that the father of one of these rapists may probably not have had any influence on the investigation nor any friend not connected with it is irrelevant. We’re looking at a culture that allows it to keep happening.

  16. Te Reo Putake 17

    One the best and most important TS posts ever, LP.

    Given the large number of readers here, I have no doubt we could crowd source a decent legal fund for your defence if the worst came to the worst. But I suspect the police are slowly beginning to understand just how badly they’ve shot their own credibility in the last few days, so making things worse by taking on a censorship case against NZ’s biggest lefty blog would be utterly ridiculous.

    Kia kaha, Lynn, well done.

  17. Sable 18

    My father was killed in a car accident and I have had contact with our police force. For myself I believe they mostly do a great job. Sure they are not perfect but show me anyone who is. They are comprised of people and depending on who you encounter it can colour your view for better or worse.

    What is troubling is an attempt to smear everyone in this organisation based on largely unsubstantiated claims that something might have happened based on posting by a bunch of kids on a Facebook page.

    I have a mostly positive opinion of this site but this is the kind of sensationalist reporting I’d expect from the MSM or maybe Fish Oil.

    I have to say I’m disappointed. I would have expected reason but all I’m hearing in personal bias, ranting and raving.

    • lprent 18.1

      As I pointed out in the bottom of my post, my niece is an activist for several causes (mostly about animals) and has been since she was about 13. She also carefully considers where and when she does unlawful and semi-unlawful actions.

      We’ve lost count of the number of times she has been arrested by the police. We have also lost count of the number of times that the police have lost in court or dropped charges after literally years of time. But it is more than a dozen and probably closer to two dozen over the last decade.

      But she was only convicted once, and that was when the police managed to get the court to not inform her that the scheduled status appearance was in fact going to be the trial. Presumably because she wasn’t able to attend to defend herself as she was in another city and had already had many similar hearing that she was prepared for and that the police stonewalled in.

      This isn’t one policeman or even a small group being arseholes and failing to learn from the way that the courts treat their charges. This is a large group from across New Zealand. It is a structural problem that the police themselves are not dealing with. For a starter they obviously don’t look at what they succeed in the courts with and what they do not when charging and prosecuting. This appears to have been a major issue with their dealing with the Roast gang, because if they’d dragged them into a court then they’d have been burnt pretty damn smartly. Just spending a year in court (the traditional police punishment) would have been enough.

      Basically the arsehole level amongst the police is currently much higher than you appear to realize. It is structural and endemic (read the Bazley report) Perhaps you should examine why rather than excusing bad behaviour.

      • Richard Christie 18.1.1

        Just spending a year in court (the traditional police punishment)

        Traditional and routine. I call it corruption 101, deliberately taking hopeless cases to court solely to cause grief to those charged.
        It’s basically resting from the courts the right to impose a financial (and time/disruption to life) penalty. The system is also skewed such that winning costs against police for bringing such charges is nigh to impossible.

        • lprent

          I helped rocky defend the “Intimidation by loitering” while at a protest.

          It required a really good defense as it had never been used in NZ as a charge as far as anyone could find out. It was put in the summary offenses act in 1981 to cope with (according to hansard) gangs loitering around business to get protection money.

          If you read the act and consider how applicable it’d be to arresting any protestor, union picket, or the like. It was a rather dangerous catchall. The district court judge wasn’t really up to it and convicted everyone regardless of what they were charged with and which protest they were at.

          Taking it to appeal in the High Court resulted in the judgement that “protesting” wasn’t “loitering”… Pretty frigging obvious to me.

          The police probably used that charge because it was a sufficient charge to get a search warrant for. They seized all of rocky’s gear including the computers that she was using in her courses and held them for more than a year. None of the hardware was used in evidence and nor was virtually anything on them. As far as I could tell, they only held them for punishment.

          Whereever they were held was obviously quite insecure because they came back loaded with viruses, trojans, and other malware. Looked to me like someone had used the computer for watching porn over a protracted period after turning off the anti-virus and other protective code. Wouldn’t have been a lot of use as evidence anyway.

          Charge carried a maximum penalty of 3 months and/or $2000.

          Cost of the defense was $25k for the week long district court, and $5k for the high court because we used a QC as the case was kind of weird. Costs against the police for bringing a foolish charge and string out a stupid case were of course not allowed.

          Since I paid for the case, the police are not in my good books.

          I don’t have much time or patience for them simply because I have seen them in action against the weaker. I have also seen them using the courts as a punishment device. It is notable that over the last two years they chose not to do the same effort in this Roast rapists case despite having a perfectly viable proforma case.

          I consider that the institution has some major fundamental flaws that allow arseholes to flourish at the expense of the better cops. This case tends to highlight this…

          • Richard Christie

            I’m sorry to say that I’m totally unsurprised, but remain outraged, by that sort of nonsense.

            I am of the opinion that if a case has been brought, paid for and lost by the state , all costs incurred by defence should then be met by the state. Alternatively, the state should fund the defence to the same amount as the prosecution in every case no matter what outcome.

          • newsense

            wow that is enormous bs.

            are the people who were involved in the agent provacteur thing still involved with the police?

      • Rogue Trooper 18.1.2

        Animal rights and environmental activist groups are viewed as domestic terrorists by US Law Enforcement and Homeland Security. The North American influence is strong with these droids.

        • lprent

          Animal rights and environmental activist groups are viewed as domestic terrorists…

          Never understood why. Here they are amongst the people that I’d least consider to be a threat to anything. At most they’d embarrass a few companies who get discovered using dubious methods for profit.

          But it is true that here these groups (along with maori activists) appear to be the playground of the paranoid nutters within our security forces.

          • Anne

            I have a truly nasty and grubby personal story to tell and one day I will tell it. Then everyone will know that what lprent is saying about the police – and at least some former security officers and former Public Service senior personnel- is absolutely true. And Margaret Bazley was one of them.

            It all happened 20 to 30 years ago now, but unhappily it looks like not too much has changed.

      • Tim 18.1.3

        ….. besides which @ Sable – it’s perfectly possible for a policemen to be entirely empathetic and supportive in one set of circumstances (such as the road death – btw, my own father was also killed by a drunk driver and ‘the Police’ were excellent), and complete assholes given a different set of circumstances.

        I’m getting bloody tired of hearing the same old platitudes time after time:
        – We’re human, like the rest of us…..
        – We’ve got an extremely tough job to do – at times stressful, and not one most people would want to do. [so do firemen, ambulance drivers, A&E personnel, even sometime ‘lowly Fulton Hogan employees having to clean up the mess, hose down the road, etc. Oh, and even victim support people who at one time anyway – earned SFA, yet were often confronted by the very same things]
        – We make mistakes like anyone [too often, we make the same ones over and over and over]
        – We’ve got teenage daughters too
        – etc
        – etc

        Quite obviously, there are quite a number that just aren’t suited to the job. That’s not to say that vast numbers aren’t though.

        … oops – shudda been 18.2

    • bad12 18.2

      SO, you like the Police believe WHAT in relation to the first complainant who at age 13 took Her complaint to the Police only (in Her words), to have those Police insinuate ‘the clothes’ she was wearing had somehow ‘shown consent’ and further,(again in Her words), insinuated that Her actions showed consent,

      In my view the ‘Facebook postings’ are largely a side issue of evidential use only, the question begged here would seem to be in the nature of ”Is this yet another police coverup in an attempt to protect their own”…

      • bad12 18.2.1

        As an afterthought to this, exactly what ensued after the first complaint to the Police, the question being at what point did Police approach those accused of the crimes,

        What is worrying here is the question ”did the Police actions/inactions surrounding the alleged offenders simply embolden them to carry on doing exactly the same behavior and were Police actions/inaction surrounding the alleged offenders the catalyst for the Facebook page in the first place”…

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          did the Police actions/inactions surrounding the alleged offenders simply embolden them to carry on doing exactly the same behavior

          Like banksters who realise that wholesale theft from our economies and retirement funds will result in no pushback, I think that you ask exactly the right question.

        • idlegus

          yeah, because the commisioner brushes it off as being investigated & completed & that is that. he talks to hosking here & goes into bizarre detail about why they ask about what clothing the girls are wearing, it is so the accused can identify the victim. it doesnt make sense, because then wouldnt the accused just lie anyway? i couldnt tell you what i was wearing a few weeks ago…—peter-marshall–police-s-handling-of-roast-busters-case

          also hosking calls this a ‘shit storm’.

    • karol 18.3

      I also had some very good responses from the police when we reported a burglary at our house in Brixton, London.

      A couple of days later a neighbour 2 doors down – nice, middle aged, law abiding woman with whom we were on friendly terms – came and described their visits from the police and the harassment received by their son accusing him of burgling our house. The reason police gave was that a couple of young black men were seen in the vicinity around the time of the burglary, and the neighbour and her son are also black.

      Here as in the UK, it can depend on who you are, and how you are perceived by the police as to the kind of treatment you get.

  18. Richard Christie 19

    I can’t help being disappointed that sexual crime is about the only issue that can motivate the populace enough to wake up to systemic police corruption.
    From the routine writing of traffic violations supported with lies through to trivialising rape complaints, most in the force are at it to some degree.

  19. jaymam 20

    Here’s another blogger for the police to attack:

    P.S. I am saving most of the sites in case they get deleted for any reason. It’s what I do!

  20. KJT 21

    “Recruited straight from school and given 19 weeks training”.

    The crux of the problem is right there.

    I have a lot of sympathy for the police. It is a difficult, stressful and sometimes dangerous job.
    Sometimes, like all of us, they simply stuff up.

    There are a huge number of good cops in the force who are there for the right reasons.


    Policing does attract the type of person who is mentally incapable of being a fair and effective police officer, because they like the power too much.
    (Way too many of them seem to get into senior positions. I suspect because our overpaid and incompetent managerial types like that sort of person).
    Any serious job with similar levels of responsibility requires at least 3 years before they are even allowed behind the wheel.
    There is not enough time in police training to acquire the depth of legal, ethical and psychological skills, and maturity needed, for such a challenging job.

    We have done the police a disservice, with inadequate training, and poor leadership.
    The peer led, groupthinking and bulletproof attitudes of teenagers seem to permeate the police force.

    like Teaching and some other jobs, I do not believe that we should recruit teenagers straight from school.
    Similarly we should expect high standards from police, but we should train,support and pay them to an equally high standard.

    • weka 21.1

      “Recruited straight from school and given 19 weeks training”.

      Rape Crisis could do the relevant training around rape culture in less than a day. Someone who understands the legal aspects co-teach. Given the high number of sexual assaults in NZ every year, I don’t think this is too much to ask.

      And the police doing the rape cases investigations are not newly graduated recruits, they’re seasoned, experienced officers. Is there ongoing inservice training?

      I think you have some good points about training in general, but at it’s core this is about rape and violence culture within the Police, and that would need to be addressed.

      • KJT 21.1.1

        Sorry, but it takes more than a day to teach a real understanding.

        Agree about a violent and misogynistic culture with some police, but it is not just the police as we all know.

        • weka

          Have you done a Rape Crisis training? They’re very good at what they do. I think you can get the basics across in that time, which is what you want to teach to new entrants into the police training. If they end up working in that field then obviously they need more training. I agree that proper longer training would be ideal, but I’m resisting the idea that the NZ Police can’t do anything useful in the 19 weeks they already have. I think they can.

    • Rogue Trooper 21.2

      well put KJT

    • QoT 21.3

      Except that it’s not fresh young recruits who are consistently failing to (a) conduct sexual violence investigations properly nor (b) challenging the clearly documented culture shit they have around sexual violence.

      Clint Rickards was an Assistant Commissioner of Police. He may very well have started out as a thuggish, juvenile shit, but he wasn’t kept in a hermetic bubble from recruitment to resignation. There was a system fostering his behaviour and attitudes instead of challenging them.

  21. Tiger Mountain 22

    Excellent post lprent.

    If you or someone close to you have not been mistreated, mislead, falsely arrested and let go without charge, fobbed off, bullied, intimidated or assaulted by NZ Police you have led a very sheltered life.

  22. BLiP 23

    I find it difficult to entirely blame the police for this sort of stuff. Other than to cut the budget, the National has done exactly nothing about actually managing the police. We all know the “crime statistics” are total bullshit in that they fail to measure apples with apples when comparing the years prior to the tweaking of the data collection methods. This typical John Key gaming of the numbers has created a mirage of professionalism and efficiency which is just not borne out in the day to day actions of the police since 2008 . . .

    05/12/08 – Wellington police officer Jason Manu Casson is discharged without conviction for stealing $90.

    16/12/08 – Palmerston North police officer Timothy Hesketh, 27, who lied during investigations and showed no remorse was found guilty of breaking a prisoner’s neck yet escapes a jail sentence.

    09/02/09 – A police recruit escapes assault charges and is permitted to graduate with any sanction or note on his personal file. He first posting was South Auckland.

    11/02/09 – Lower Hutt police leave confidential documents behind after executing a search warrant putting witnesses at risk of gang violence and then fail to own up at a subsequent IPCA enquiry. The inquiry noted: “The conflicting accounts given by the two officers, and the facts that no officer has taken responsibility for the loss of the Operation Order and that the Police investigator has not been able to identify that officer, are undesirable. Whilst there is no evidence of criminal conduct in relation to the loss of the order, its loss does amount to misconduct.” The Mongrel Mob say they know who left the report behind but were never interviewed.

    17/03/09 – The IPCA criticises police for their continuing failure to develop procedures for the prompt drug and alcohol testing of officers involved in serious incidents.

    27/03/09 – A Christchurch broke a number of police protocols in the lead up to the fatal shooting of Stephen Bellingham. The IPCA finds that the unnamed officer: did not tell his communications controller he was going to the scene, nor did he advise them he was armed, failed to brief two other officers who were on their way to the scene so that he could tackle Bellingham with support, and, crucially, a dog patrol unit, which would have been a huge asset to the effort to contain Bellingham, was diverted to another crime.

    30/03/09 – Nelson police officer Anthony Dale Bridgman is convicted of two counts of dangerous driving after he pulled out in front of two motorcyclists, seriously injuring both.

    19/05/09 – Head of the Police Prosecution Service Superintendent Graham Thomas steps down after it is revealed that he refused to undergo a breath test.

    29/05/09 IPCA states that Auckland Police officer Constable Aaron Holmes was breaking the law and ignoring official policy when he seriously injured innocent teenage Farhat Buksh.

    25/07/09 – Northland police run down two pedestrians, killing one and injuring another.

    15/08/09 – An Auckland constable is suspended after it was alledged that he leaked sensitive information to help a known criminal to avoid arrest. The unnamed officer was in a squad which targets “volume crime”, in particular burglaries, and had access to the police intelligence database.

    05/08/09 – Hamilton police tell a disabled man they are too busy to investigate the alleged theft of $1600.

    07/09/09 – Senior Instructor at the Porirua Police College, Detective Sergeant John Gualter, is convicted for drunk driving after being found to have an alcohol reading at more than twice the legal limit.

    09/09/09 – A Wellington man has his neck broken by a police baton while a party is being shut down.

    19/09/09 – Auckland police officer Constable Matt Hooper is charged with perverting the course of justice after attempting to make use of a legal loop hole to avoid drunk driving charges.

    26/09/09 – National Head of Police Professional Standards, Superintendent Jon Moss resigns after news of an affair he had with a junior colleague comes to light. Moss helped introduce the new “professional distance policy” last year which covers sexual conduct for officers with the public, victims of crime and work colleagues.

    28/09/09 – Masterton detective Sue Mackle goes public on the fact that police are failing to investigate hundreds of sexual abuse complaints in favour of focussing on property crimes because doing so makes the statistics look better.

    09/10/09 – Dunedin police fail to follow procedure and a prisoner is found dead in the cells when they finally get around to checking.

    09/10/09 – Nelson police officer Senior Constable Garry Dunn is sent to trial for assault after a two day depositions hearing was told he rammed a cyclist with his car and then pepper sprayed the man for not wearing a safety helmet.

    04/11/09 – Whakatane police prosecutor Adrian Hilterman was sentenced in Tauranga District Court today to 150 hours community work for assaulting his wife. He was convicted and discharged on three charges of assaulting his children. In the same court last month, he was found guilty of assaulting Deborah Hilterman, 37-years-old, by kicking her around the groin area between June 1 and June 29 last year at Whakatane. He was also found guilty of assaulting her in a car travelling from Auckland to Whakatane on June 30, 2007. He was discharged on 10 other charges of assaulting his wife, a Whakatane general practitioner.

    09/11/09 – Figures released under the Official Information Act show that half of all police officers charged with drunk driving are convicted.

    16/11/09 – Auckland police officers Patrick Garty, 32, and Wiremu Bowers-Rakatau, 21, charged with assault.

    17/12/09 – Christchurch police officer Nathan Thorose Connolly is sent to jail for inducing sexual connection from the sex worker by means of a threat.

    23/12/09 – The IPCA announces a nation wide investigation into how police are dealing with child abuse complaints, following on from revalations made public in November.

    12/01/10 – Taranaki police are criticised by the IPCA for not preventing a drunk driver going on to kill three people when Hawera officers could have taken steps to immobilise the driver’s vehicle when they found it parked up outside a pub after a chase.

    22/01/10 – Rotorua District Court convicts an ex police officer for possession of child porn.

    23/01/10 – Two Papakura detectives charged with indecent exposure and offensive behaviour after a drunken escapade.

    14/02/10 – Auckland High Court takes two minutes to throw out a murder charge brought by police who had used huge amounts of resources and dodgy investigation techniques to manufacture the arrest and 16-month incarcertation of an innocent man.

    16/02/10 – Christchurch police are slammed in a report for failing to adhere to policy during a chase which left an innocent bystander in hospital with horrific head injuries.

    20/06/09 – An unnamed police officer is reprimanded for writing out the employment details of a driver on a speeding ticket as “kitchen bitch”.

    04/10/09 Revelations that a senior police was a paedophile and interfered with investigations into the activities of Bert Potter and the Centrepoint commune come to light.

    21/11/09 – 51 police officers were disciplined in the year to date for a variety of things including turning up to work drunk, unlawfully using their police ID, assault, speeding, using excessive force, and inappropriate behaviour on duty.

    08/12/09 – Former constables Reuben James Harris and Benson Lyle Murphy are accused of making false statements in regard to the prosecution of a third officer who was charged with manslaughter. Harris and Murphy had earlier pleaded guilty to conspiring to defeat the course of justice. Their jail sentence was subsequenrly quashed by a judge who refused to explain why.

    05/01/10 – Police are filmed carrying out illegal road stops and searches.

    31/01/10 Unnamed police officers are filmed putting the public at risk with a crazy display of dangerous driving at a school fair

    26/02/10 – Innocent Auckland man, 62 year old Brett Abraham is admitted to hospital for weeks of treatment after being savaged by a police dog. The police dog handler left Mr Abraham alone, bleeding and crawling up the driveway to his home.

    28/02/10 – Christchurch police, despite a complaint of theft, failed to arrest a man who, the next day, committed murder. Police said at the time they were too busy to handle the theft complaint. Area police commander, Dave Cliff, refused to discuss the matter.

    01/03/10 – Union’s criticise a double-jeopardy situation produced by police circumventing privacy legislation in grubby deals with employers to ensure drink drivers are dealt to at work as well as in Court.

    01/03/10 – 1300 Police officers fail their fitness test.

    01/03/10 – Auckland police go to great lengths to keep the identity of the officer who shot to death innocent man Halatau Naitoko secret. His lawyers had earlier sought to deny justice by seeking to have the shooter exluded from attending the hearing at all.

    03/03/10 – Dunedin police reveal that they failed to follow up a possible sighting of missing British girl Madeline McCann after a local security guard’s approach to police was disregarded.

    04/03/10 – A man helping police is bitten by a police dog.

    05/03/10 – Invercargill District Court throws out an assault charge brought against a bus driver by local police after the driver was arrested for allegedly “assaulting” a child by stopping the child from assaulting another child on the bus.

    07/03/10 – Detective Sergeant Lloyd Schmid is investigated for encouraging a junoir staff member to have sex with an informant in order to gain additional information.

    14/03/10 – An unnamed senior police officer is accused of abusing his powers after a friend of his is held up at a check point when on the way to a sports match.

    18/03/10 – Police management refuse to name two officers being investigated for fraud.

    31/03/10 – Senior police deny systemic faults played a part in the fact that Senior Constable Len Snee broken a number of rules in the lead up to him being shot by Napier gunman Jan Molenaar.

    1/04/10 – A police officer who works in a serious crash unit is under investigation for alleged drink-driving after he was reported for backing into a parked car.

    1/04/10 – Karl Walter Vincent, a North Otago police officer loses name supression in a case involving accusations of indecent assault.

    4/04/10 – Independent Police Complaints Authority Investigator Larry Reid describes a man who had his neck broken while in police custody as a “complete arsehole”.

    30/04/10 – Significant faults in the “Kahui Twins” police invesitgation are identified and which hampered both the defence and the prosecution teams.

    08/05/10 A three-year-old boy was mauled by a police dog at a kindergarten visit that was meant to teach the children about dog safety.

    14/05/10 – Police are found to have failed in their duty to protect after delaying the arrival of emergency medical staff to the scene of Navtej Singh’s fatal shooting.

    18/05/10 – A senior Wellington police officer receives name supression when appearing in court on assualt charges.

    21/05/10 A senior under cover police officer admits interfering with and removing objects from a murder scene. No disciplinary action follows.

    21/05/10 – An man helping police is bitten by a police dog.

    30/05/10 – A police officer’s vile on-line diary is investigated in the hope of identifying the officer concerned. All posts from the gpforums are deleted shortly thereafter.

    31/05/10 – An official information request shows that five police officers have been charged with drink driving over the previous 12 months, including a senior constable in the serious crash unit.

    05/06/10 – Constables Brenton David Rooney and Duncan Roy Hollebon are found guilty of assault after kicking a suspect already in custody.

    12/06/10 – Sergeant Jason Lamont gets to keep his job after being let off a drunk drive charge where he had been found to be one and a half times over the limit.

    23/06/10 Police are accused of improperly obtaining DNA samples from Maori.

    25/06/10 – Constables Patrick Garty and Wiremu Bowers Rakatau are convicted of assault.

    02/07/10 – Ex-Superintendent Jon Moss, the former head of “professional standards” faces new accusations of criminal behaviour.

    04/07/10 – Senior police deny a culture of violence exists in the force following the standing down of a fourth officer from one Auckland district for assault allegations.

    07/07/10 – Harsher laws for offences against police introduced but no requirement for harsher sentencing for police officers committing offences considered.

    10/07/10 – Police apologise after telling a woman she would have to wait two days for a follow-up to the burgalry of her house.

    10/07/10 – Two unnamed police officers to face charges for driving offences after crashing their police vehicles.

    29/07/10 – Armed police unnecessarily smash windows and fire ten tear gas cannisters into a house while searching for a suspect.

    29/07/10 – Gisborne police supress information in an effort to make the community feel safer.

    03/08/10 – a Mongrel Mob member and two associates walk free after a judge rules police acted unlawfully.

    06/08/10 – Police officers Keith Parsons, Erle Busby, John Mills, and Bruce Laing escape criminal conviction but are found to have used excessive force against a prisoner being held in Whakatane cells. The victim of the police violence subsequently received compensation.

    06/08/10 – Disbelief as the man responsible for tormenting Algerian refugee Ahmed Zaoui , former SIS director Richard Woods, is appointed to the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) for to years.

    08/08/10 – Seedy details of a police officer’s secret life start to come to light after he is stabbed to death.

    20/08/10 – And unnamed police officer is stood down after being charged with multiple accounts of indecent assualt.

    25/08/10 – Police get special treatment in liquor licensing law changes.

    04/09/10 – Coroner David Crerar finds that having an extra officer involved in a search of Jan Molenaar’s Napier home would have prevented the death of police officer Len Snee.

    19/09/10 – Armed police terrorise a couple for hours after raiding a house looking for a suspect who had moved out months ago, a simple fact police could easily have verified. An apology is given and $2000 spent on repairing damage caused by police in the raid.

    25/08/10 – Detective Inspector Dave Archibald who had been caught illegally accessing the police computer system to help the defence of convicted pack rapist Brad Shipton gets a promotion.

    22/09/10 – Auckland police sergeant Martin James Folan is name as the officer charged with assaulting five prisoners over a three month period.

    01/09/10 – Police accused by lawyer of silencing dissent by arresting those who’s political views they disagreed with.

    23/09/10 – Oamaru police constable Karl Walter Vincent is found guilty of multiple counts of indecent assault.

    25/09/10 – Increasing concern expressed at rising number of fatalities due to police pursuit tactics.

    25/09/10 – Police pursuits for traffic offences result in 11 deaths in the nine months to September 2010.

    28/09/10 – Former Otago police officer Neil Ford is jailed for perjury.

    28/09/10 – Superintendent Bob Burns says that other officers were involved in covering up perjury and the wilfully attempting to pervert the course of justice which is why it took five years to bring charges against only two officers.

    10/10/10 – Evidence given by two police officers is thrown out and the officers concerned are under investigation for failing to disclose information to a defence lawyer which would almost certainly have led to a not guilty finding.

    16/10/10 Veteran barrister Barry Hart details some of the history of a criminal culture within the New Zealand police force which goes back at least until the 1970s.

    19/10/10 – More evidence of endemic corruption in the New Zealand obfuscated.

    23/10/10 Superintendent Gary Smith gets promoted to a plum job despite a secret police report which states he acted unlawfully and totally mismanaged a complaint about the unlawful arrest of a justice of the peace. No charges have been laid.

    23/10/10 It is discovered that the Independent Police Conduct Authority has decided that a report which highlights illegal actions by police does not need to be published because it “is not in the public interest.

    27/10/10 – All Black coach Graham Henry gets let off a fine after being snapped travelling at over 30kmh above the speed limit.

    28/10/10 – Complaints of of “widespread police involvement” in local body electioneering in Manurewa and Papakura are being investigated by the police and the Independent Police Conduct Authority. The Authority never bothers to report back about this investigation.

    14/11/10 – The mother of a 12-year-old beaten by bullies is turned away from Christchurch Police station when she went to make a complaint because there were no officers on duty to deal with the matter.

    18/11/10 – Former police officer Dairne Olwen Cassidy gets home detention after being found guilty of wilfully attempting to pervert the course of jusitice.

    18/11/10 – Former police officer Anthony Dale Bridgman already notorious for another incident involving his dangerous driving of a police vehicle, is back in court again.

    17/12/10 – Police are found to have failed to comply with rules regarding pursuits in case where the fleeing driver was seriously injured.

    17/12/10 Most crime in New Zealand goes unreported, a survey finds. Of those quizzed, 24 percent said they felt the police would not or could not be able to deal with the situation.

    20/12/10 – West Auckland police constables Alan Michael Douglas and Gareth John Needham are found guilty of assault. This is not the last the courts will hear of this pair.

    01/01/11 Bay of Plenty police refuse to reveal how many people were arrested during New Year celebrations.

    03/01/11 – Superintendent Ted Cox lies to a fellow officer after being pulled over for speeding on the Auckland southern motorway

    07/01/11 Another “hurry up” issued to the police in regard to the culture change required as per the 2008 Bazley inquiry into police sexual misconduct.

    20/01/11 Another “hurry up”, this time from the State Services Commission is issued to the police in regard to the 2008 Bazley inquiry into police sexual misconduct.

    21/01/11 – Constable Raymond Dunbar is convicted of drunk driving.

    29/01/11 – Police National manager of youth services Superintendent Bill Harrison is under investigation for using police letterhead to lie in an effort to get out of a parking ticket.

    31/01/11 – Police are highlighted are persistent breakers of the do not drive while on the cell phone law.

    04/02/11 – Senior Constable Terry Beatson is found to have accessed the police computer system 17 times in order to assist his wife in a custody case against he ex-husband. Beatson gets to keep his job.

    18/02/11 – Detective Sergeant Mark McHattie is identified as having lied about a backlog of child abuse cases in the Wairarapa being cleared up.

    09/03/11 – Police are accused of assaulting a young autistic man who was then presented as the face of looting in Christchurch.

    09/03/11 – North Shore police use a taser to stop a protester.

    20/03/11 – Its revealed that Deputy Commissioner Viv Rickard did not act on allegations about a former colleague’s relationship with a senior civil servant which later led to a criminal investigation.

    29/03/11 – Start of the trail of Sergeant Martin James Folan who is subsequently found not guilty of assalt but who’s actions remain under investigation by the IPCA authority – two years later and nothing to show for it.

    16/04/11 – Police are under investigation for attempting to convince other officers not to testify against sergeant Martin Folan in an assault case.

    17/04/11 – Court actions against the police and corrections department come up against both political and institutional obstacles in what is described as a “David vs Goliath Battle for justice”.

    17/04/11 Another innocent man sent to jail by dodgy police work finally receives compensation while the original case remains open and the police officers involved show little remorse or even interest in solving the case.

    06/05/11 – IPCA says rules were broken in police pursuit which ended in fatality but not action required or recommendations necessary.

    08/05/11 – Detective Sergeant Peter Govers is named as the officer responsible for sending two innocent men to jail. Govers keeps his job, even after subsequently being labelled as “reprehensible” for pressuring a female informant into giving him a blow job.

    09/05/11 – Constable Raymond John Dunbar loses appeal against his conviction for drunk driving.

    17/05/11 – Police officer Matthew Blythe fails in his bid to overturn a conviction for punching a very drunk suspect in the head as the man was being handcuffed by other officers.

    18/05/11 – Senior Constable Matthew Leslie Blythe loses an appeal in the Court of Appeal against a conviction for assault.

    26/05/11 – Former Detective Inspector Mark Franklin is arrested and charged with drug dealing in Rarotonga.

    31/05/11 – Nelson police arrest and charge a man for theft after he took pies out of a rubbish tin at the back of a petrol station. The owners of the petrol station had twice told police these did not want to press charges. The charges were withdrawn in court.

    16/06/11 An unnamed police officer found guilty of assault after punching a prisoner escapes conviction after a judge agrees that such a conviction would have effects out of all proportion.

    25/06/11 More evidence of historic and systematic police perjury surfaces.

    20/06/11 – Contables Alan Michael Douglas and Gareth John Needham are found guilty of assault.

    11/07/11 – Constable Jamie Anderson was driving on an unlit rural road and texting on his cellphone when he ran over a pedestrian. No problem says ICPA.

    11/07/11 – Unhappy with coverage of the police beating of an autistic man Christchurch Central Police Area Commander Inspector Derek Erasmus announce an investigation into TVNZ’s Sunday programme.

    27/07/11 – Former police officer Neil Robert Ford gets an early release after being sent to jail for perjury.

    28/07/11 – Police employee Patrick Bruce Phipps is found guilty of charges of illegal possession of a Finnish Valmet semi-automatic rifle and a Czechoslovakian VZ58 fully automatic rifle.

    02/08/11 – Superintendent Ted Cox finally pays a $120 speeding ticket after first going through $8,000 of police budget trying to get out of it.

    13/08/11 – Senior Constable Michael Lenihan is fined $250 for careless use of a motor vehicle after doing a u-turn in front of motorcycle resulting in the death of the rider. Lenihan was acquited of dangerous driving causing death and dangerous driving causing injury

    22/08/11 – Police finally find a good enough reason to drop charges against am autistic man they had beaten and held in custody for stealing two light bulbs before charging him with looting after the Christchurch earthquake.

    24/08/11 – Hasting Senior Sergeant Luke Shadbolt says to the media about a missing girl “she is missing, but it’s not the story of the century. And if we had a major concern about the disappearance, we would have [issued] a media release about it”.

    05/09/11 Police drop charges against Tiki Taane after he was arrested for expressing his opinion on what police describe was a “misunderstanding”.

    25/08/11 – Detective Inspector Dave Archibald is promoted to a senior position despite his illegal searching of the police computer system for information to assist officers’ defence in a pack rape charge.

    13/09/11 – Police blunders at Pike River Mine subject to questioning at inquiry. Assistant police commissioner Grant Nicholls does his best.

    16/09/11 – Illegal actions of police in regard to Urewera detailed in a Supreme Court judgement that couldn’t previously be released.

    20/09/11 – Police apologise for breach of privacy after faxing a confidential parenting order to media.

    25/09/11 Police get a caning from the Supreme Court for knowingly breaking to law to illegal gain evidence. No charges are ever laid and the government changes to law to cover the officers concerned.

    29/09/11 – New Zealand police officers are described as racist by visiting journalists here to cover the Rugby World Cup.

    04/10/11 – Police Inspector Turepu Keenan is snapped texting on his cellphone.

    19/10/11 – Accusations that police are lying about security threats in order to get their residential properties improved.

    25/10/11 – Deputy Police Commissioner Rob Pope admits that he knew about the history of Superintendent Gary Smith who had previously been found to have acted illegally before he was later promoted to a plum police job.

    30/10/11 – Superintendent Gary Smith appointed to the plum London job had previously been accused of sexually harassing a female police employee.

    09/11/11 Police are accused for forcing an Indian woman suspected of being in the country illegally to sign documents.

    17/11/11 – Police staff are among those arrested in a drug swoop.

    17/11/11 – Former Nelson policeman Garry Dunn is found not guilty of two assaults but resigns from the police after having illegally accessed the police computer system to assist his defence in the case.

    21/11/11 Dozens of police officers face criminal charges according to details released under an official information request. Very few such cases appear to merit media coverage, it would seem.

    22/11/11 Police officers are found to have broken pursuit rules in a fatal chase.

    22/01/12 Police officers arresting protesters at the Occupy event are filmed all wearing the same ID number in an orchestrated attempt to hide their identities and hamper the processing of any complaints about the actions of individual officers

    09/02/12 Chinese tourist Naiju Li lays complaint against the police alleging brutality in their arrest of the 56 year old woman. She suffered a dislocated elbow and required stitches to her face.

    02/02/12 – Police are filmed illegally closing a road to support the activities of a corporate

    17/02/12 Police officer Karis Rewa Charnley makes her first appearance in court after being charged with lending her uniform to someone for use in the theft of a car. The charge Charnley was eventually dismissed after the judge described a “vacuum” in the evidence.

    02/02/12 – Police employee Darren Ian Hodgetts admits to providing a drug ring with access to the police computer system.

    03/03/12 – Police prosecutor Timothy John Russell Sarah pleads guilty to a representative charge of supplying methamphetamine, four specific charges of supplying the drug and one charge of dishonestly accessing the police computer – the National Intelligence Application.

    30/03/12 – Constable David Mear is found not guilty of assault . . . hmmmm.

    05/04/12 – Police officer Karis Charnley is charged with being a party to theft , being a party to impersonating a police officer and assault.

    11/04/12 – An unnamed police officer appears in court allegedly involved in a collision with another car after doing a U-turn in front of it has appeared in court, charged with careless driving. But the officer is likely to avoid conviction after being offered diversion.

    12/04/12 – A unnamed police officer was disciplined after giving false details to the Rotorua harbourmaster after being caught breaching a bylaw while riding a jetski on a lake.

    18/04/12 – Various protesters at the Glenn Innes evictions of tenants in government housing claim the police used excessive force

    15/04/12 – Detective Sergeant Rod Carpinter receives support after carrying out an illegal raid which was described by a judge as “consciously reckless”. Mr Carpinter was earlier criticised for his involvement in a drug bust in 2005 where his actions were also found to be “unreasonable and unlawful”.

    20/04/12 Superintendent Bill Harrison, one of the country’s top policemen, was found guilty of serious misconduct after accusations he used police letterhead to dodge a $200 parking fine. Superintendent Bill Harrison retired on May 17 last year, before an independent investigation was completed so no disciplinary action was taken.

    24/04/12 – Detective Senior Sergeant Mark McHattie who was at the centre of a major child-abuse cover-up has kept his job after a code-of-conduct investigation but police will not reveal the outcome of the long inquiry.

    29/04/12 – A Northland man who received paralysing neck injuries while in police custody is in a “bad way” after surgery and is struggling to breathe on his own, his parents say.

    03/05/12 – Constable David Mear returns to work after being found not guilty of using excessive force against a man who suffered a broken eye socket and cut to the head

    16/05/12 – An unnamed police officer resigned late last year after being investigated for theft in the aftermath of the February 2011 Christchurch earthquake.

    04/06/12 – Police officer Gareth John Needham has lost his attempt to appeal his conviction for assault to the Supreme Court.

    25/06/12 – Police officer Marcus Guy Andrew Molnar is convicted of theft after admitted stealing cash and soft drinks from a bar at the police station on four separate occasions

    11/07/12 – National Crime Manager Detective Superintendent Rodney Drew defends the police force’s organised abuse of the court system by arranging the false arrest and court hearing of an undercover officer

    11/07/12 – Inspector Paul Dimery resigns and, in a parting shot, tells the media that the New Zealand police force is compromising front-line safety because it is being run like a business

    12/07/12 – Senior Constable Tony Andrews is found to have acted inappropriately due to a conflict of interest, and to have engaged incoercion and the breaching of privacy.

    07/08/12 – Senior Sergeant Rod Carpinter and Constable John Grantham escape criminal charges after having “materially misled” the court about a a drugs raid.

    14/08/12 – Police justifications for using anti-terrorist officers to raid Kim Dotcom’s home were partly based on claims the tycoon assaulted a former staff member with his stomach.

    24/08/12 – A police officer is filmed driving like a bloody idiot tail gating traffic on the open highway

    28/08/12 – New Zealand police have been praised by the White House for their role in the case against Kim Dotcom, but are keeping it secret.

    29/08/12 – An unnamed police officer appeared in court charged with <a href= appeared in court charged with illegal hunting. The officer appeared in the Blenheim District Court after earlier denying a charge of hunting deer and goats on land at Blue Mountain near Ward on April 17 without the authority of the property owner.

    17/09/12 – Senior Constable Sean Ramkissoon accuses senior police officers of conspiracy, corruption and dishonesty, and his employment grievance escalated to the Employment Court.

    22/09/12 – Details of the police force’s idiocy, excessive use of force, general illegality, and perjury in relation to the Kim Dotcom affairs starts to become public.

    25/09/12 – Police officer Jan Paul de Moor appears in court charged with assault

    25/09/12 – Its revealed that Police Commissioner Peter Marshall signed the indemnity order which accepts potential liability if Kim Dotcom lays a claim for damages, it has been confirmed.

    27/09/12 – The police are slated in the 2012 Ombudsman’s annual report to parliament after it topped the list of crown agencies ducking and diving official requests for information.

    29/09/12 – Police receive a rebuke in court for leaving three drunk men in a vehicle with the keys in the ignition. Judge David Saunders told police it was a recipe for disaster.

    29/09/12 – Police are heavily criticised for failing to abandon a pursuit that endangered the public and culminated in the deaths of two young men.

    03/10/12 – Two girls, aged 14 and 16, are arrested, denied contact with their family or a lawyer, strip searched, and held in a police cell for 36 hours . The 16 year old, who was nursing a baby, was forced to express breast milk into a cell sink.

    13/10/12 – Jakob Christie had his neck broken by a police baton more than three years ago. He is still waiting for the police to do something about it.

    14/10/12 – Detective Senior Sergeant Al Symonds ignores evidence and spends 18 months dragging an innocent man’s name through the mud only to have the case dismissed in minutes.

    16/10/12 – Police wait nine months after receiving instructions from the Minister before contacting a family to take formal criminal complaint

    18/10/12 – Few of the recommendations of a commission of inquiry into police conduct, concluded five years ago, have been fully implemented. Acting Police Commissioner Viv Rickard says he accepts the finding that more focus is needed on sexual assault investigations.

    19/10/12 – A report by the Office of the Auditor-General reveals an “unacceptable” level of inappropriate sexual behaviour within police and said improvements were still needed in training staff who were involved in adult sexual assault cases.

    20/10/12 – Police funding cuts have seen sex crime investigation courses slashed and firearms training reduced.

    21/10/12 – Increasing numbers of teenagers are being held in police custody for days, breaching United Nations protocols and sparking concern from human rights agencies. Child, Youth and Family statistics show the number of young people held for more than 24 hours in police cells almost trebled in the past three years.

    21/10/12 – Detective Sergeant Mark Keane and Detective Dale Forman were criticised in a stinging Independent Police Conduct Authority report for failing to fully investigate claims that Tineke Foley had been raped by a male nurse at a Christchurch mental health facility.

    25/10/12 – A police blunder results in four alleged Chinese people smugglers being awarded a $2000 payout.

    02/11/12 – Police ignore three 111 calls to respond to an accident.

    19/11/12 – Detective Jamie Woods is caught out providing a transcript containing “mistakes” as part of an application for a search warrant to intercept the phone calls and emails of senior Switched on Gardener staff.

    19/11/12 – Constable Gary Neil Morgan of the North Shore Police strategic traffic unit is charged with careless driving after he crashed his patrol car into a tree.

    28/11/12 – A convicted drug dealer is freed on bail pending an appeal because police involved in an investigation were found to have acted corruptly following a staged search for evidence against an undercover officer.

    21/12/12 – Mikayla Paul is found guilty of assaulting a woman may yet be discharged without conviction.

    22/12/12 – Police go over the top in protecting John Key from having to keep his word about buying a Christmas dinner for two Wellington men.

    24/12/12 – A Hawkes Bay family is left shocked and upset with the treatment they received from police after an officer smashed their windscreen with his torch at a drink-drive checkpoint this week.

    15/01/12 – Constable Perry Griffin is accused of excessive use of force after making an arrest.

    20/01/13 – After cut backs in fire arms training, almost 1000 new gun safes are removed from police cars because of potential security issues, just months after they were rolled out across the fleet.

    31/01/13 – An unnamed police officer who was sacked for using excessive force loses his case for unjustified dismissal.

    11/02/13 – A fifteen year old girl lays an assualt complaint against police after being left bloodied and brusied when police were breaking up a party.

    15/02/13 – An unnamed police officer admits receiving money from people who had criminal charges against them dropped. At the request of defence counsel Pip Hall, Judge Brian Callaghan did not enter convictions because the defence wants to argue for a discharge without conviction.

    20/02/13 – The Independent Police Conduct Authority promises to try harder after being found out for unnecessarily keeping reports secret.

    21/02/13 – A police blunder in a major drugs investigation has revealed the identity of confidential informants and undercover officers and their secret intelligence-gathering techniques.

    23/02/13 – A former undercover officer comes clean about spying on protest groups, environmental organisations and trade unions.

    23/02/13 – The IPCA finds that police could have prevented a murder had they acted earlier on information received.

    01/03/13 – Hundreds of police officers across the country are withdrawn from the front line and told not to interact with the public, after failing a key fitness test

    03/03/13 – Another police chase, another accident.

    10/03/13 – Police officers who deliberately faked their uniform badge numbers to avoid being identified as they weighed into a violent public protest will keep their jobs and won’t be investigated by the force’s watchdog.

    16/03/13 – The police attempt to silence a retired officer for speaking to the media about the Teina Pora case.

    27/03/13 – Police still need time to introduce changes identified as necessary six years earlier following an investigation in its culture and practises.

    27/03/13 – About 20 people protest outside Masterton police station over claims young people have been mistreated during arrest. The protesters included two teenagers who alleged they had bones broken while being arrested.

    09/04/13 – An analysis of police statistics highlight the fact that Maori youth are far more likely to go to court after an arrest than pakeha youth.

    13/04/13 – Another police chase, another crash

    13/04/13 – More on the orchestrated miscarriage of justice in the Teina Pora case.

    15/04/13 – Retiring Detective Senior Sergeant Grant Coward says police officers are leaving the force in droves, frustrated with the “budgets, the judiciary, new systems in place alienating the community and traffic taking precedence over everything,”

    17/04/13 – Police admit to “dropping the ball” by failing to pay more than $5000 in rent to a tiny Christchurch community group run by volunteers and war veterans.

    20/04/13 – Former drug squad detective Ernest Langford escapes jail after being found guilty of stealing thousands of dollars from a police safe and colleagues desk. Charges involving the theft of thousands of more dollars were dropped.

    21/04/13 – Comments by Constable Paul Sharples about judges results in Auckland’s top police officer making an apology and starting an investigation into the way Sharples handled the case.

    24/04/13 – Police sergeant Blair Donaldson pleads guilty to careless driving. Magistrate Ngaire Mascelle say a conviction would outweigh the severity of the offence and discharged Donaldson without conviction.

    05/05/13 – The Independent Police Conduct Authority has received two complaints about the nation’s second-highest-ranking police officer, Mike Bush – but it will not be taking any action . The complaints were in response to Bush’s comments at the funeral of former police officer Bruce Hutton, a detective who was found to have planted evidence used to wrongfully convict Arthur Allan Thomas of murder.

    09/05/13 – Another police chase, another crash.

    17/05/13 – Police officer Peter Pakau appears in court on a raft of drug charges.

    12/05/13 – Another

  • BLiP 23.1

    12/05/13 – Another police chase, another crash.

    06/06/13 – Police r efuse to engage with a lawyer representing teenagers seeking discussions about possible compensation.

    08/07/13 – An investigation is begun after an unnamed police officer is accused of assault.

    09/07/13 – Another police chase, another crash.

    24/07/13 – Two expert reports about an incident in which a wedding guest was run over on a Waikato road were ignored by a police crash analyst, a coroner’s inquest has been told.

    04/08/13 – Lawyers are demanding a review of how police intercept private communications after a photo-journalist’s cellphone logs and messages, including exchanges with a lawyer, were obtained in and inquiry instigated by the PM.

    05/08/13 – Police officer Dugal Matheson is slammed by a judge and convicted for dragging his former partner around by her hair and “manhandling” her son.

    07/08/13 – Police officer Lotovale Ulufafo Solofa Perese appears in court charged with a variety of offences involving the smuggling of contraband for delivery to people being held in police cells.

    12/08/13 – Detective Sergeant Mike Blowers appears in court charged with supplying methamphetamine and cannabis.

    16/08/13 – Police have accidentally shot a man as he lay on the floor of a Hastings house while being taken into custody this afternoon.

    27/08/13 – Police breach confidentiality agreement concerning compenation paid to the mother of Halatau Naitoko.

    29/08/13 – The police decide to take no action of illegal spying.

    31/08/13 – Police carrying out a “cold case” investigation of the Crewe murders demand an alibi from Arthur Thomas and members of his family.

    04/09/13 – Officers working in OFCANZ fear internal reprisals if they were to tell police bosses about inappropriate conduct.

    07/09/13 – Casual racism, ignorance, disrespect and insensitivity on the part of the police when dealing with the family of a murder victim exacerbate their grief.

    09/09/13 – A sober woman left stranded in a pub car park in the early hours after police confiscated her car keys was raped shortly afterwards.

    15/09/13 – The family of Danielle King, 15, claim she was “thrown around like a rag doll” by officers breaking up a party.

    15/09/13 – Police are being slammed for a “monumental blunder” in which they searched and damaged an Auckland family’s home in the hunt for a man who brutally bashed a police officer – but they were at the wrong house.

    15/09/13 – Hawkes Bay police leaving the force in droves amid a “draconian climate” after a regional restructure .

    19/09/13 – Inspector Richard Wilkie is discharged without conviction for assaulting two teen agers.

    21/09/13 – Police have agreed to pay a Southland farmer $14,000 in damages and costs after armed officers entered his property without permission and, in a resulting tussle, pepper-sprayed him, punched him in the face and Tasered him while he was handcuffed.

    22/09/13 – Road safety data being submitted by the public is being ignored by the police.

    28/09/13 – The detective who blew the whistle on his alleged drug-dealing boss was removed from his squad and investigated before senior police took his concerns seriously.

    28/09/13 – Central District commander Superintendent Russell Gibson, in a letter to convicted child rapist Robin Peter Abraham’s wife, described one of the rape victims as a willing party to the sexual abuse.

    29/09/13 – A martial arts black belt who became a morphine-dependent invalid after a beating by Senior Sergeant Ron Greatorex , has won a five-year battle for compensation. Greatorex has never been charged and still works as a senior-ranking police officer in Christchurch.

    10/10/13 – Police Association president Greg O’Connor says most complaints made against the police are from “perennial complainers who complain about everything to everyone”.

    17/10/13 – No apology and no charges after police who broke a man’s neck are found to have used excessive force.

    17/10/13 – Police prosecutor Brent William Thomson pleads guilty to possession and use of methamphetamine and cannabis.

    17/10/13 – Another police chase, another crash.

    20/10/13 – It is proved in the Privvy Council that police use dodgy evidence and failed to provide all information to the defence in the Mark Lundy case.

    08/11/13 – Police threaten a blogger in an effort to stifle public discussion surrounding its own inaction and mendacity concerning the RoastBuster rapes.

    • RedLogix 23.1.1

      In the context of this entire thread it’s worth noting that at 19/9/13 Inspector Richard Wilkie was convicted for dealing with:

      He pleaded guilty in July to two charges of assault during an off-duty incident, after discovering his 14-year-old daughter drinking with other teenagers in Bucklands Beach, Auckland, in the early hours of the morning…..

      Judge Brooke Gibson said the boys had not suffered physically or psychologically from the incident, and Mr Wilkie had accepted responsibility for his actions and shown remorse.

      Yes the ‘good old days’ of giving these idiots a ‘kick up the arse’ are well gone and Inspector Wilkie has been made to pay a price for his quite understandable anger at finding his underage daughter in such a situation … but at least she arrived home safe that night.

      • Tat Loo (CV)

        Yep. And his daughter has been given a sharp reminder of how much her Dad cares about the risks of underage drinking, because he no doubt knows firsthand the bloody mayhem it causes.

      • newsense

        seems an injustice that he had to cop that but some of that other stuff held up…

      • McFlock

        While I understand his impulse, he could have simply taken his daughter home, or made a complaint to the police about people supplying his daughter with alcohol and then taken her home.

        A sly thumping just gives the little shits something to hold over you, and many of them are smart enough to know it. As this case shows.

        But it’s this sort of case where we need to trust judges to take circumstances into account.

    • dv 23.1.2

      That is an impressive and important piece of research Blip.

    • rilsildowgtn 23.1.3

      oh hell

      I had no idea it was this bad……

      You hear stories overseas but still

      Thanks for this Blip.

    • newsense 23.1.4

      f- me.

      you don’t have much free time do you?

      It’s a very tough job and they don’t get paid much considering, but I’d been scrolling through that list for a few seconds and realised the dates were still from 2010 and started to really worry…

    • xtasy 23.1.5

      BLiP – well, you have done a great job with listing up all that! How did you get into the Police computer system, to get all that detailed data???

      • BLiP

        Heh! Very kind of you say. Believe it or not, my list details probably less than half of the number of arrests of police officers. I’d been wondering for a while why so few stories are followed up in the media. A friend who has worked in the courts for more than ten years now tells me they very rarely see dedicated “court reporters” these days. She also said cases sometimes get “shuffled” into different court rooms depending on who is on the bench or what the public attendance is like or whether the media is in attendance. Needless to say, I don’t have access to the police computer data base, but this list is one of several I have been maintaining for a while:

        • xtasy

          Da “meediya” aye!? Yeah, “court reporters” sounds like something from last century, and we know that there is “no space” and “money” anymore for such reporting, it is easier to link up to international news channels, and to “report” on weather, economic, crime and other statistics that flow through, same as it is easy, to send your reporter to a thrashed house in ChCh, a freak weather event here or there, or to visit “The Block” (no “sexual” connotations to be implied by that, please)!

          The dumbing down machinery of “modern media” and “advertising” offers tools that Goebbles could only have dreamt about in his wildest (perhaps “wettest”) dreams!

          I dread the future, everywhere on planet earth.

    • QoT 23.1.6

      Jesus Christ, BLiP. I am ever in awe of your list-compiling abilities.

    • sunlightisthebestdisinfectant 23.1.7

      @blip – as one of these many nameless victims, thank you for remembering us. it is hard to notice these debates, it triggers so much, but thank you for noticing what happened.

  • Richard Christie 23.2

    Great comment.
    Steven Wallace and Stephen Bellingham were outrightly murdered.

    • Puckish Rogue 23.2.1

      No they were not, the end results were predetermined by their own actions

      • McFlock

        Thanks for that, pucker pogue.
        Gotta risk your life and then kill to protect those storefronts from a golf club.

  • Ennui 23.3

    Lprent said 12.1 They really need to upgrade their governance to the point that they start dealing with their mistakes and trying not make sure that they don’t repeat them all of the time. All the evidence he needs. Excellent post.

  • NickS 23.4

    Bloody brilliant bit of research as per usual BLiP.

  • greywarbler 24

    Bowalley Raod pointed questions.
    Assumptions Of Complicity: The young men involved in Roastbusters projected a jarring sense of invulnerability: an assumption that their sexual humiliation of young women was just the normal stuff all young men engage in. It was an attitude which received a measure of endorsement from media figures who described the Roastbusters’ behaviour as “mischief”…..

    How has New Zealand raised such sons?
    That’s a question only New Zealand’s fathers can answer.
    What sort of example have we set?

    When New Zealand was governed by a woman, did the nation’s fathers indicate to their sons that this was a state of affairs of which they should be proud? Were they outraged on their sons’ behalf when their workmates and drinking buddies stood around the barbecue making jokes about her looks, her voice, her sexuality – or did they join in the ribald laughter?….

    The “Roastbusters” revelations make it very clear that our secondary schools’ sex education syllabus is in need of urgent revision. Against pornography’s messages of exploitation and abuse we must counterpose the messages of respect, compassion and equality. Not only for our daughters’ safety, but also for our sons’.

    • King Kong 24.1

      I also found Helen Clark to be ugly and might have mentioned it out loud. I hope my son doesn’t turn out to be a rapist.

      Oh crap, I have also said that Gerry Brownlee is a fat cunt so my boy might turn out to be anorexic as well. At least then he might not have the strength to rape.

      • fender 24.1.1

        Unlike most others your comments have never improved over time have they..

      • karol 24.1.2

        KK, that’s a disgraceful comment. The misogyny and homophobia that was used in a widespread way to undermine Clark was a very appalling part of the history of the right in NZ.

        Trotter is fairly late to the table in supporting such issues, and is probably not the most important voice on the issue. But he states it well, and makes excellent points, and it is helpful for such men to be talking about the role males play in this issue. And I commend greywarbler for paying attention to it.

        • Ennui

          KK is being a provocative prat. I dont like the language either (I am slightly old fashioned). No help what so ever.

          On Trotter, he may be late but he got there, he is in a lot of front lines…cant be everywhere.

      • weka 24.1.3

        King Kong, I know that you are misanthropic in the extreme, and that it will mean absoloutely nothing if I tell you that there will be people reading this thread, including women and men who have been raped, who will be finding your posts painful, degrading and triggering. I also know that you don’t give a shit about anyone else and so causing other people pain will just be fuel for your sense of entitlement to do whatever the hell you like.

        So I’m just putting this BIG FLAG here for the attention of the moderators, and as a way of making visible what a useless human being you really are.

        • King Kong

          I know all about it Weka. My younger sister was raped a few years ago however I tend to disagree with Chris Trotter that people calling Helen Clarke a “lezza” had much to do with this.

          I am of the opinion that whilst there are certainly some societal influences, most rapists are hard wired with a lack of impulse contol and empathy. A bit like paedophiles.

          99% of those who look at porn and tell dirty jokes don’t rape and have never even thought about it.

          • RedLogix

            All societies have a layer of sociopaths who are prone to acts of exploitation and evil. The reason why society normally works is that we have various controls that mostly restrain them from acting out their impulses.

            It’s not my job to hold the RB’s personally accountable for their actions, that’s what we have Police and Courts for.

            But what I am responsible for is thinking about and working through my small part of this … how did I let my society fail these young people so badly? That’s a fair question for all of us and KK and I’m sorry to see you shirking from it.

            • Tat Loo (CV)

              It takes a village to raise a child. That’s an important reflection for these times.

          • Lanthanide

            “and have never even thought about it.”

            Glad you’re such a mind-reader.

          • karol

            kk: I tend to disagree with Chris Trotter that people calling Helen Clarke a “lezza” had much to do with this.

            I am of the opinion that whilst there are certainly some societal influences, most rapists are hard wired with a lack of impulse contol and empathy.

            So a campaign to undermine Clark using “lezza” smears has nothing to do with lack of empathy for women, especially lesbians? And nothing to do with lack of empathy or respect for women who are successful in the public sphere?

            • King Kong

              I have seen those on the left call Key a host of abusive names, Jewy banker thief, sociopathic baby eater etc. but suggest that a woman, who quite frankly displayed all the stereotypical hallmarks of being a lesbian, a lesbian, and all of a sudden its raining with misogynistic rapists.

              The call for blokes to assume this wet, androgynous, soft persona goes against some fundamentals of what being a human male is.

              Like it or not, a lot of what we do as men is driven by our primeval desire to stick our nobs in stuff. The large majority of us manage to carry this out within societies rules.

              • weka

                Hallmarks of being a lesbian? lolz, go on then, tell us what those are.

                “I have seen those on the left call Key a host of abusive names, Jewy banker thief, sociopathic baby eater etc.”

                Any time anyone here tries the Jew thing with Key, they get called on it.

              • karol

                Like it or not, a lot of what we do as men is driven by our primeval desire to stick our nobs in stuff.

                Not really the most suitable people to be ruling the world, then?

                • weka



                • King Kong

                  Probably right Karol, though I think we would be much more dangerous if we weren’t constantly distracted with getting laid.

                  [lprent: Ok – enough. Now you look like you are just trolling. Next comment on this post will result in a ban from the site.. ]

                  • Bill

                    Let me get this straight KK. First up, you admit to being nowt more than a dickhead? Then you claim you’d be more dangerous if you weren’t a dickhead? I guess I’m laughing at the kinda weird honesty and modesty in your comments, though mostly I’m just perplexed.

                    edit: Guess you won’t be verifying that now given Lynn’s piece of moderation. Ah well. I can live with that.

                    • lprent

                      He can always go across to OpenMike and argue there or in the previous posts on this topic. Just not mine. I noticed that his comments were causing divergence from the purpose/direction of my post.

                    • felix

                      “I noticed that his comments were causing divergence from the purpose/direction of my post.”

                      By that reasoning he could be banned from every post he has ever commented on.

                    • lprent []

                      Possibly. But that is for each post author to decide.

              • Pascal's bookie

                Jesus wept. ‘All men are rapists’ is usually a feminist line.

                Secondly, those ‘rules’ are kind of a grey area as it happens. that’s what this whole discussion is about. People have different ideas about what the rules are. Rapists do to. And the stuff you are saying here is very much like what rapists say.

          • weka

            “I know all about it Weka. My younger sister was raped a few years ago”

            Am sorry to hear that. I think you know something about it, not all.

            “however I tend to disagree with Chris Trotter that people calling Helen Clarke a “lezza” had much to do with this.”

            I don’t give a shit about what you think about what Trotter said. YOUR original comment above just demonstrates that you don’t give a shit about other people.

            “I am of the opinion that whilst there are certainly some societal influences, most rapists are hard wired with a lack of impulse contol and empathy. A bit like paedophiles.”

            How convenient, my genes made me do it! I think the number of people born that way would be very small. However rape is very common in some cultures, and the connections between things like degrading porn, one’s own history of abuse (sexual or otherwise), societal norms about sex, women, girls, power etc and rape are all very clear for those that want to see.

            “99% of those who look at porn and tell dirty jokes don’t rape and have never even thought about it.”

            Citation needed.

            You really are very ignorant about rape and the contexts it happens in.

    • greywarbler 24.2
      From Gordon McLauchlans 2012 book that follows on from his Passionless People – now Revisited.
      Family violence is another serious issue: “A problem in New Zealand for decades. We were beaten at secondary school. I wasn’t thrashed by my father when I was young. I never told anyone. They’d have thought he was a poof. My father was a lovely, gentle man.”

    • vto 24.3

      Chris Trotter makes one of them great unchallenged leaps here… “How has New Zealand raised such sons? That’s a question only New Zealand’s fathers can answer.”

      Perhaps he should explain how such would be so ffs

      How has New Zealand raised such sons and daughters? That’s a question only New Zealand’s mothers can answer.

    • QoT 24.4

      Chris Trotter is part of the problem.

      • Rhinocrates 24.4.1

        Chris Trotter is a stopped clock with a lot of hands – so right about so many things, so wrong about so many other things too… mainly things that aren’t about middle aged white blokes with moustaches, so I guess that he’s predictable at least. I’ve met many socialists who would like to strangle him with his own intestines, yet many times he makes some very cogent analyses. He’s a very frustrating individual – intelligent, but without imagination or empathy. I guess that I shouldn’t ask my optometrist to deal with my teeth?

        In some ways he represents what should be right with the Labour Party, and in other ways he represents all that’s wrong with it.

        I guess the problem is that the left today is Labour can’t be just about white men in cheese cutter caps who were born before the First World War, and progression now must be for everyone and Labour needs to recognise that. Mumblefuck didn’t get that (and he certainly doesn’t have any loyalty to the poor). Here’s hoping that David Cunliffe does.

        • Rhinocrates

          And of course Douglas, Bassett, King, Prebble, Mallard, Goff, Caygill et al – and the list goes on – had nothing to do with Labour’s values at all. Some of them are history now, thankfully, but some aren’t yet. I’d hate to think that the self-proclaimed party of the left has become hidebound in orthodoxy disguising opportunism and careerism, but it looks like one party has become so unless the renewal extends into caucus. I know that that’s not the case for the Left itself.

  • joe90 25

    A couple of cents worth – watching Campbell last night my SO, who works at the coal face, noted that the difficulties in obtaining evidence and convictions Marshall spoke about is a constant in almost every case her organisation deals with.

    • Pascal's bookie 25.1

      Which is clear evidence, if any was needed, that the balance is all the fuck out of whack.

      Justice Minister Collins was saying that she rejected reforming the system because of the need for balance.

      We currently have a system where self identified rapists can brag about it on the net, and victims fear the system too much to complain ‘formally’ whatever that means.

      • Lanthanide 25.1.1

        I really wonder why Collins is so against reform.

        There was a clip on the radio this morning that suggests her reason was because all of the judiciary and lawyers would need to be retrained to deal with the new special system.

        So it all comes down to dollars and cents for the nats, not doing anything about the victims of crime in the community.

        Frankly that justification seems just a bit too trite, I wonder if there’s something else deeper down.

        • Pascal's bookie

          I think she didn’t like it because it wasn’t her idea, to be honest. Simon Power had things in play, he was seen as a good minister, bright, and with integrity; so she stopped them to show she was now boss.

          Just as with ACC and how she spent ages being all pissed off at Smith.

          She is an amazingly shallow person.

          edit: Also worth noting that while Power had Justice, she had police and corrections, (lesser roles), and Power wouldn’t front on things like the 3-strikes bill which were clearly things the Justice minister should have been pushing though. Collins was running them though, make of that what you will.

          • idlegus

            i’m understanding the bit about how hard it to get evidence to build a successful case, but then why did the cops keep the rape club going?

  • You don’t fight this stuff? You end up with shit like this and this and here is a facebook page you might want to “like” if you think that the police is out of control

  • weka 27

    Looks like the NZ Police weren’t the only ones who have dropped the ball

    A counsellor who worked at the school claims she went to senior management and raised concerns about Hales in 2011, but was ignored.

    Speaking to the Herald yesterday, she said Hales was known as “a player”.

    “I suggested that we speak to these boys.”

    She said she approached a senior staff member, but not the principal.

    “Nobody was very keen about doing anything. I didn’t get the backing; my hands were tied. I didn’t have the authority to do anything else.”

    Green Bay High chairman Norman Wallace said none of the boys came to his attention during their time as students. “Certainly nothing ever came up at the board level.”

    How can they not have known about the FB page?

    • karol 27.1

      Damn! Green Bay High. Too close to “home”. Lived in the wider area in west Auckland for over a decade.

    • Tat Loo (CV) 27.2

      How can they not have known about the FB page?

      I suggest that dozens of adults, from police to teachers to parents to older associates (say 20+) either knew what was going on or had heard repeated rumours. As you say, I’m pretty sure that FB could give you statistics on how many NZers viewed the Roasters site over the 2 year period. Thousands maybe.

      Simple fact is that all these adults could have gotten involved sooner, but didn’t.

      It’s pretty fucked.

    • karol 27.3

      BTW, on Green Bay.

      Willie Jackson & JT talked about the RB boys as being Westies/working class. Green Bay is actually a pretty middle class area – I guess it has a bit of a mix of classes. But that high school is on the edge of Titirangi – a very middle class area.

      • felix 27.3.1

        Don’t know what the school is like now but in my day most of the rich kids from the area were sent out of zone to Avondale or further afield.

        Having said that, from what I’ve seen of the two main RBs on telly, they seem anything but working class.

  • SDCLFC7 28

    Once again I’m disappointed to find myself supporting the same political colours as Bomber Bradbury and friends.
    This issue has required, and for much of it received, considered, thoughtful and skilled social commentary.
    There has also been some extremely poor social commentary with Willie Jackson doing his very best Robin Thicke impression and rightly getting it from Matthew Hooton.
    While I’m not saying Bradbury fits the latter, neither does he contribute to the need for constructive debate.
    That’s fine, there is some wit to his poster that I appreciate, but the outrage from the left now stems over censorship and the personal vendettas one has with the police.
    The left should be able to contribute more to the debate on sexual violence against women/girls, and the police and government’s role in preventing it, than this attempt at point scoring.

    • lprent 28.1

      …and the police and government’s role in preventing it, than this attempt at point scoring.

      I suspect that reading your rather dumb comment that you misunderstand the underlying problem.

      The government has no control over the police operations. Read the police act, and consider that we really don’t want politicians to exert much control on the police either..

      The police have a “Independent Police Conduct Authority” who they seem to value obstructing, and when they get a decision they they disagree with then they simply ignore the decision. See the link in the post on one of the more extreme instances of this.

      They also appear to have ignored most of the recommendations made by the last public investigation into their operations by Bazley in the wake of the way that the police were handling sexual violence complaints. That was delivered in 2007, and appears to have simply been ignored.

      There are many police units that in effect are a law to themselves. Some of them charge on trivial offenses at every opportunity – being noisy at a protest using your voice being one of my favourites. Some never charge on serious offenses like rape. The police force has some serious problems in their quality control.

      The police have (as far as I am aware) NO PROCESS for the input of the public into their operational decisions. So when we see them cocking up in something like this balls up – guess what – the only way to get them to change is to make a noise.

      Why that works is because the work that the police do is highly reliant on the goodwill, trust and participation of the public. Something that they are acutely aware of. Furthermore the police officers themselves are embedded into the communities. Bringing up their past transgressions and telling them why they screwed up is probably the ONLY way of making them change their behaviour…

      But you are the expert – suggest another technique. I (and others) will have pleasure in telling you why that hasn’t worked in the past.

  • ak 30

    We should all be very aware that right this minute a multitude of very serious scabs are being painfully ripped asunder by this issue and the media’s coverage thereof.

    Trotter’s right: the Helenhate progrom was a key contributor, but the vein it tapped runs far deeper.

    Not in any way a partisan issue, but a promise of support for current sufferers and the pledge of a serious wide-ranging enquiry into all aspects of teenage sexual behaviour would not go amiss from one of our leaders. Any one will do.

    • Colonial Viper 30.1

      We need an official inquiry to tell us about the multiple problems of poor parenting, absent adult intervention/role models and a toxic media and economic environment for young people in NZ?

      • McFlock 30.1.1

        It’s the difference between targeted, useful action, and flailing around with a club hoping that you crack open the pinata rather than granny’s skull.

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          Sounds great. I’ll await the report release with significant interest. Circa 2016.

          • McFlock

            Well, some social conservatives would probably believe that our social problems would be solved if everyone went to church every sunday, by law.

            It might be handy to be able to hit them with the research that shows them wrong.
            (interesting moral conundrum on the offchance they’re right, though 🙂 )

      • ak 30.1.2

        Couldn’t hurt, old boy. The size of the river of tears flowing from this one might surprise you: and this time it’s not coming just from the wrong side of the tracks…..

        Restored/increased counselling funding in the meantime, at the very least.

        (btw lovely verse below, Roguey old man)

        • Rogue Trooper

          my pleasure, was 30 years ago I took to that story-telling song. “Sundown, ya better take care”.

      • Bill 30.1.3

        Cv. You cannot throw all this back on parents when society…ie, all the people living and working or not working and dying etc..are subjected to the same rancid and poisonous bullshit. And you cannot throw it back on communities for the simple reason that ‘community’ was taken out back and shot decades ago.

        These fuckers who comprise the state (the institutions and their commissars) assumed control…total control. And now it’s fucking up and they’re so obviously out of their depth, you want to give them a ‘get out of jail free’ card by allowing them to shift the blame on to something that no longer exists?

        nah. Fuck that.

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          yeah sorry Bill. But I believe that parents, immediate and extended family (including the circle of close friends) have far more influence over a young person’s personal development and attitudes than the ‘institutions of the state.’

          you want to give them a ‘get out of jail free’ card by allowing them to shift the blame on to something that no longer exists?

          Did you read somewhere that I think the cops, JT, Willie etc. should be given a pass on this???

  • Rogue Trooper 31

    Gr8t post Lynn, Gr8t list BLiP, Gr8t ‘Banksy’.

    “And every man knows as the captain did too
    T’was the witch of November come stealin’

    Does anyone know where the love of God goes
    When the waves turn the minutes to hours

    And all that remains is the faces and the names
    Of the wives and the sons and the daughters

    Superior, they said never gives up her dead
    When the gales of November come early”.


  • Tracey 32

    Not a single politician has called for increased funding to rape crisis and schools programmes that actual work.


    imagine if the money wasted on the tppa went to these kinds of services instead. see if they were handled differently

    good to see jt and wj show boycotted by advertisers… just need them sacked as an example.

    • Tat Loo (CV) 32.1

      Not a single politician has called for increased funding to rape crisis and schools programmes that actual work.

      Correct. Most pollies are stuck in the orthodox economics paradigm of balancing budgets and limited money supply. If you want more funding for this, the next question is – are you going to borrow more or are you going to cut some other programme?

      As opposed to the truth: if society deems it important enough, fiscal means can always be found to pay for an initiative. Same with not cutting NZ super.

      And besides, pollies hate looking reactive…like they hadn’t thought of the idea before the crisis became apparent.

      • Lanthanide 32.1.1

        “As opposed to the truth: if society deems it important enough, fiscal means can always be found to pay for an initiative. Same with not cutting NZ super.”

        Yip. Lets just print more money whenever a new worthy cause comes along. It’ll work fine. Trust us.

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          If you have an actual argument, try making it Lanth.

          At the moment to keep running the NZ Govt borrows (with interest charges) money printed by the Bank of Japan, the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, the ECB, and other central banks.

          (Of course, these institutions don’t physically “print” the money, it is created by electronic credits via key strokes – how many zeroes do you want with that?)

          What I am saying is that NZ can create its own money supply, if it wished to, without borrowing the money printed by those other central banks.

          It’s the only sane way to do it.

          • Lanthanide

            I know what you’re saying.

            What you’re saying is “trust the government to print exactly the right amount of money, and no more”. Except there aren’t any immediate or obvious consequences if they should happen to print too much money. Or really anything at all stopping them from just printing extra money whenever they need it – which is exactly what you said in the comment I replied to.

            • Tat Loo (CV)

              What you’re saying is “trust the government to print exactly the right amount of money, and no more”. Except there aren’t any immediate or obvious consequences if they should happen to print too much money.

              Nothing to fear here, mate.

              There are plenty of obvious consequences/limits to printing and releasing too much money. Just as there are obvious consequences (though often far down the track) for sourcing too much of the nation’s money through borrowings.

              Firstly the ‘real economy’ limits:

              1) You run out of real resources to utilise. Trained tradespeople, professionals, factory time and machine capacity.

              2) You cause monetary inflation. Prices start going up because of a bidding war caused by too much money available and too little real resources (the Auckland house market is a prime example, even though money printing is not responsible for that).

              3) You divert too many assets and resources away from the private sector and into government use, because the government can always pay more.

              There are also many artificial constraints that you would impose on the money creating and spending process. Many of those constraints are already commonly used eg.

              1) a budgetry process. Only items which are fully approved and justified will have money spent on them.

              2) an audit process. Spending must conform to exacting standards and pre-approved, budgeted or authorised purposes.

              3) other artificial limits e.g. debt ceilings, the government not being permitted to create money itself (eg in the US the Federal Reserve does it, not the US Government), etc.

              4) Having lots of NZD around does not preclude the need for us to keep producing goods and services that other countries want to buy as we will still require foreign currency and trade to source things we can’t provide for ourselves.

              And what if it is one day found that too much money has been released into the economy? No big deal, its not a disaster. You can rapidly remove excess liquidity by (for instance):

              1) Increasing fines, fees and taxes.
              2) Forcing increased savings e.g. Kiwisaver %
              3) Temporarily reducing government spending into the economy e.g. delaying big projects etc.

              As I said nothing to fear. If society feels a certain goal or project is important enough, fiscal means are always available to get it done.

              If on the other hand you don’t think Rape Crisis, Womens Refuges, adult night classes, postgrad student summer grants, etc are worth funding, then fine, don’t access or create the money needed to fund them. Which is exactly what we are doing now as a society, and which you seem to think is OK or somehow more economically sound, when it is in fact utterly fiscally unnecessary.

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          That’s a call for an inquiry into funding, and a statement of belief that those services are underfunded. These are steps in preparation for a call for increased funding, but it hasn’t got there yet.

          • QoT

            Wow, splitting hairs much? The original statement from Tracey, which you called “correct”, was:

            Not a single politician has called for increased funding to rape crisis and schools programmes that actual work.

            The Greens’ submission guide for the inquiry clearly says more funding is needed. Jan Logie has been fronting a whole campaign about the under-funding of sexual violence services. The inquiry happened after dedicated campaigning to raise awareness of the issues.

            Jan Logie has quite clearly called for increased funding in line with the 2009 report which identified programmes which actually work.

            So unless you want to quibble about what the meaning of “is” is … I’m sorry, you’re wrong.

  • xtasy 33

    Do not get me started on the NZ Police and the IPCA. The Independent Police Conduct Authority is one of a number of “public office pseudo scrutiny bodies”, which I have a completely “dim” view of.

    I know of a number of cases, where complaints were made, and they usually ALL go back to the Police to “investigate”. Now that alone should raise eye-brows, but yes, that is what they do, and what the Act governing the IPCA authorises them to do.

    It is of course a special section within the Police that conduct such “investigations” or even “assessments”, but hey, if there would be insufficient and truly compelling evidence against police officers, would they really make decisions or recommendations against their own colleagues?

    No, and that is where the problem sits. The IPCA can of course take further steps to investigate themselves and independently, but this is only done in very few cases.

    In most cases, the Police do it, and they will not report anything that would harm or damage the reputation of any police officer, unless there is overwhelming, undeniable evidence that force them to do so.

    And when they are found to have done something improperly, wrong, or failed somewhere, what is the end-result. It usually is nothing but a “warning”, some further “training”, some “recommendation” and the likes. It is mostly a “wet bus ticket” slap on the hand action that the IPCA recommends.

    We have similar things happen at the Health and Disability Commissioner and some other Commissioner bodies, and they are ALL paid by the government, they are ALL appointed by Ministers of the government, and too often the impression is, the ones heading these “institutions” are members of unofficial “old boys” and “old girls networks”!

    I have NO TRUST in the IPCA, which needs a new law, a total review and restructuring, from scratch, to bring in truly independent members, not just one senior, reputable judge as Mr Carruthers, as he will delegate and have his “servants” down below just continue what has been done for endless years.

    Time to shake up that rotten IPCA!!!

  • newsense 34

    Had forgotten this context:

    “At the same time this story unfolded a convicted spouse abuser who claimed in defense that he was provoked by his victim was promoted to the most listened radio sports program in the country, having worked his way back into that format less than a year after his conviction and having had the Prime Minister subsequently grace his studio to exchange banter about laddish things (including Elizabeth Hurley’s “assets”).

    Not to be outdone on the victim-bashing front, a few other prominent male radio talkback hosts (two of them Maori) ridiculed and insulted rape victims when discussing the case of the underage girls, essentially telling callers that drinking and wearing provocative clothing was primarily to blame for what happened.

    Coincidentally, a misogynist bigot was brought back from foreign television exile after a series of gaffes and embarrassments to host a prime time news show at one of the highest salaries offered to a television host in New Zealand. His forte is adolescent potty jokes, particularly those directed at women. ”

    Maybe the Roast Busters can mount the public defense that they were under pressure?

  • Don Franks 35

    May I put in a word here for the NZ police.

    The NZ police, they do their job pretty well, just that some of you folks don’t seem to know what their job is.

    The cops basic job is to protect and defend private property rights. That is it.

    When free, they also have to pick up some unpleasant shit, tell people their kids have been run over and are consequently dead, but that comes in secondary to the central police purpose.

    To do their antisocial central job of defending private property in any weather, no matter what the social consequence the cops need to grow a hard shell and they do. Their whole humanism ossifies.
    That’s how come Louise Nicholas was subject to repeated police abuse.

    So don’t waste time saying oh, the police should be doing their job properly, they already are.

    The job description does not in include helping old ladies across the road or young ladies not being raped.

    • miravox 35.1

      “The cops basic job is to protect and defend private property rights. That is it.”

      The property rights have to be worth quite a bit of money through, right?

    • Murray Olsen 35.2

      That’s the neoliberal view of police, but I hardly see it as a defence of them, or of an economic system that requires such a force.

    • ak 35.3

      Onnit Don. Shittiest job in the world bar none, their entire lives bought. Collect $200, perf to perfidy, but never, ever again pass anything resembling go.

    • Naturesong 35.4

      This is the most ignorant statement I’ve seen in a while.
      The Police themselves would disagree with you.

      Taked from their website:
      New Zealand Police overview

      Functions of New Zealand Police
      The functions of Police include:

      keeping the peace
      maintaining public safety
      law enforcement
      crime prevention
      community support and reassurance
      national security
      participation in policing activities outside New Zealand
      emergency management

      In carrying out these functions, Police relies on a range of partner organisations, as well as the efforts of individuals, families and communities. Policing is delivered within a networked and cooperative environment, with significant contributions from local authorities, the private security industry, Māori and Pacific wardens and members of the public to name a few.

      Yes, policing is a difficult and sometimes dangerous job, and when done well they have the support of the communities they police. Police officers are occasionally lionised when they perform heroic acts.

      Due to the nature of their work, they are given a great deal of power. When they fail to perform their duties in a way that results in harm to the people in the communities they police, or abuse their power and explicitly harm the people in their communities they need to be held to account, and those responsible (both personally, and managerially) for the inaction (or action) need to be purged from the force.

      People don’t hate the police, they want them to do their job, they want to be proud of the police, they want to trust them.
      At the moment (and for as long as I can remember) they demonstratively do not deserve to be trusted.

      • Naturesong 35.4.1

        The cops basic job is to protect and defend private property rights. That is it.

        I see you are making this assertion based on the obvious priorities the police use when performing their duties.

        So I retract, it’s not the most ignorant statement, but clearly one based on experience.

        Police duties and power however are legislated. They need to be held to account. And if the Minister won’t. Then she needs to be replaced with someone who will.

        • karol

          I think DF may not agree with the things he’s highlighted, but he’s saying this is actually what the police are about. I think he’d be in agreement with you, Naturesong. Note he says this:

          Their whole humanism ossifies.
          That’s how come Louise Nicholas was subject to repeated police abuse.

          So don’t waste time saying oh, the police should be doing their job properly, they already are.

          The job description does not in include helping old ladies across the road or young ladies not being raped.

          That’s actually a pretty scathing criticism of police values.

          See for instance some of DF’s stuff from joe90s link below:

          Flexible super threatens tired old workers: which ends:

          What hypocrisy.

          The Labour party has been leading the charge for the superannuation. elegibility age to be raised.

          The social contract is about to be broken and the divide between rich and poor in New Zealand is about to be further widened.

          That sort of injustice is not unavoidable.

          A socialist society would provide decent pensions for all workers in need.

          When will we get serious about fighting for such a society?

          And this from DF, Poem for Paula: Satirising Paula Bennett saying cleaning and fast food are “noble” jobs.

          You may or may not like how he does it, but I think DF is pretty unhappy with a society where the police’s main job is to protect property, and not rape victims.

          • Naturesong

            Yup, thats why I revised my assessment of his statement and recognise that it acknowledges what the police actually do, as opposed to what they are required under the law to do.

            Don’s statement though, appears to me, to be if not defeatist, at least resigned.

            Also, the police are not the enemy – but there is years of work ahead for any Police Minister who wishes to ensure that the police are no longer a source of harm to New Zealand society.

            • karol

              Yes, it was hard to tell where he was coming from at first.

              But, I’m not sure how we change a justice system that privileges property owners and the wealthy & powerful…. and macho men.

              • Naturesong

                We have laws, a justice system, a parliamentary democracy (crippled is better than nothing).

                What we need is those that are voted into power, be it National or Labour, to do two things.

                1. Enact legislation that on balance provides positive outcomes for the majority of New Zealanders while ensuring that no one is unduly disadvantaged.
                2. Ministers that have the competence and fortitude to ensure that their departments not only do their jobs, are not corrupt and follow the law, but have a healthy internal culture (good governance, appropriate processes for ensuring bad behaviour is recognised and dealt with appropriately etc).

                So, basically, a government that represents the people of New Zealand and Ministers who do their jobs properly.

                The current National government fails miserably. The incompetence and corruption staggers the mind.
                The previous Labour government were patchy on both 1 and 2. Credit can be given in that they did actually try to achieve these aims, and had some success.
                Prior to that, we’d have to go back to before Muldoon, at which point I’d have to do some research as it’s before my time.

                One of the reasons I joined the greens, after looking through the policies and aims of all parties, is their adherance to evidence based policy, good governance, transparency and a commitment to democracy. And I have a soft spot for anyone who agrees that New Zealand shouldn’t and doesn’t need to be a polluted shithole.
                I did not see these things in any of the other parties

                • karol

                  Yes. Good outline, Naturesong. I was having a weary pessimistic moment.

                  In the end, The Greens are ones who touch all the bases of anti-poverty, pro-communities, cooperative organisations etc. but it also takes pressure from we the people to keep them from getting sucked into the power machine that is mainstream politics.

                  Better legislation is a slow process.

                • Rhinocrates

                  crippled is better than nothing

                  I’d counter by saying “Could be better is not good enough.” That’s your point too, I’m sure, but if anyone wants to pay me royalties for a bumper sticker or T-shirt… 🙂

    • Tat Loo (CV) 35.5

      Hi Don.

      The cops basic job is to protect and defend private property rights. That is it.

      You ascribe societal value to property, but not to people, is that it?

      When free, they also have to pick up some unpleasant shit, tell people their kids have been run over and are consequently dead, but that comes in secondary to the central police purpose.

      So if a kid has been hit in a hit and run by a stolen car, the police vehicle nearby should chase after the stolen car (someone’s private property after all!) and leave the kid bleeding on the side of the road?

      The job description does not in include helping old ladies across the road or young ladies not being raped.

      Have you ever read the following per chance? There’s talk about keeping the “peace” and preventing offences against the “peace.” Nothing though, interestingly, about “property rights.” Are you sure you didn’t just make that part up?

      “I, [name], swear that I will faithfully and diligently serve Her (or His) Majesty [specify the name of the reigning Sovereign], Queen (or King) of New Zealand, her (or his) heirs and successors, without favour or affection, malice or ill-will. While a constable I will, to the best of my power, keep the peace and prevent offences against the peace, and will, to the best of my skill and knowledge, perform all the duties of the office of constable according to law. So help me God.”

      • Rhinocrates 35.5.1

        Don Franks is well-known to be a committed socialist in Wellington and his post is definitely very sarcastic.

        I guess what you see is Poe’s Law in action. Certainly I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Rodney Hide write that with no irony at all, considering that this supposed libertarian has sided with the f@scist Putin regime over the arctic oil platforms.

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          Cheers mate. Being dense. Viper Pilots need to adhere to accurate target identification before pulling the trigger…

          • Rhinocrates

            No worries. Poe’s Law as I said 🙂 After all, could you imagine Hide saying anything else?

    • xtasy 35.6

      Apologies for my rushed harsh criticism in one comment below, Don Franks! I had to read your comment again, to detect the satire within it.

  • xtasy 36

    Don Franks:

    “The cops basic job is to protect and defend private property rights. That is it.”

    Yeah, “that is it”, is it? Society, and I mean a “functioning society”, needs a damned more than the mere “defence” of “private property”.

    You are exposing one of the major problems of this society, namely that it cares almost only for property and property rights, especially for those who have much property, but cares “fuck all” for those that cannot afford “property”, maybe not even have a job and income.

    Stick it up where the sun don’t shine, mate, as that is how “dim” I view your comment that I now respond to! You seem to base society on property and little else, f**k you for being such a jerk!

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      KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
      5 hours ago
    • Migration surge reduced inflation, says Orr
      Record high net migration in 2023 produced a net detraction from inflation because of a surge in labour supply, but the effects may be more inflationary this year. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Te Pūtea Matua (Reserve Bank) Governor Adrian Orr told me in an interview yesterday that record ...
      The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
      6 hours ago
    • Weekly Roundup 1-March-2024
      Welcome to Friday, and to March, traditionally the busiest month for people trying to get into and around our city. The Northwestern Cycleway has been going gangbusters this week. How’s it looking out there for you, around the rest of the isthmus? Here are some of the articles that caught ...
      Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
      8 hours ago
    • February AMA
      Hi,As someone generous enough to pay for Webworm — literally allowing this thing to exist — I always want to give you extra stuff (next week a story I’ve been wanting to tell for about eight years) and make myself available to answer any questions.Hence these AMAs, which I really ...
      David FarrierBy David Farrier
      8 hours ago
    • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #9 2024
      Open access notables Rockfall from an increasingly unstable mountain slope driven by climate warming, Stoffel et al., Nature Geoscience: Rockfall in high-mountain regions is thought to be changing due to accelerating climate warming and permafrost degradation, possibly resulting in enhanced activity and larger volumes involved in individual falls. Yet the systematic lack ...
      18 hours ago
    • Newshub awaits a miracle – but in the meantime its Mātauranga Māori debate has spurred Jerry Coy...
      Emeritus Professor Jerry Coyne, from his base in the United States, may well be oblivious to the furore raised about the state of  the news media in New Zealand – and the implications for our democracy – after TV3’s American owners announced Newshub’s fate.  The news service will be shut ...
      Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
      22 hours ago
    • Correction
      Sorry!!! Today’s edition has the wrong damn link for Chlöe Swarbrick’s excellent speech.This is the right one. Read more ...
      More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
      23 hours ago
    • Correction
      Sorry!!! Today’s edition has the wrong damn link for Chlöe Swarbrick’s excellent speech.This is the right one. Read more ...
      More than a fieldingBy David Slack
      23 hours ago
    • A speech and a beer, both delivered perfectly
      So, what can we do about these deplorable people and the appalling things they are doing?Every time Chlöe Swarbrick gets to her feet or leans into a mic, she offers a very good  answer. Clear, plain, compelling words. Clear, plain, compelling thinking.Guys, she tells new MPs who have just given maiden ...
      More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
      23 hours ago
    • A speech and a beer, both delivered perfectly
      So, what can we do about these deplorable people and the appalling things they are doing?Every time Chlöe Swarbrick gets to her feet or leans into a mic, she offers a very good  answer. Clear, plain, compelling words. Clear, plain, compelling thinking.Guys, she tells new MPs who have just given maiden ...
      More than a fieldingBy David Slack
      23 hours ago
    • 2024 Reading Summary: February (+ Writing Update)
      Completed reads for February: Tarzan of the Apes, by E.R. Burroughs The Lost World, by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Poison Belt, by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Struwwelpeter: Merry Stories and Funny Pictures, by Heinrich Hoffman The Moon Hoax, by Richard Adams Locke The Strange Voyage and Adventures of ...
      23 hours ago
    • Aoteraoa, Ukraine, and Gaza
      Today the government designated the political wing of Hamas as a terrorist entity, making supporting them a criminal offence. I honestly don't know much about Hamas' organisation, or how involved its politicians were in planning its crimes in October last year, but when Israel is actively carrying out a genocide ...
      No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
      24 hours ago
    • ETS review will be good news (we think) for the forest sector but govt gets tough with Hamas and Isr...
      Buzz from the Beehive When the Luxon government took office last year, forest owners and investors were among the myriads of interest groups who pressed incoming ministers with pleadings, urgings and advice – typically self-serving –  for change. The forestry bunch hoped the new government would give clearer direction on ...
      Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
      24 hours ago
    • Tougher Love.
      "Ullo, ullo, ullo, what's coming off here then?" Mark Mitchell’s Gang Laws are separating the Liberal Sheep from the Authoritarian Goats.  THE INTENSIFYING POLITICAL CONTROVERSY over the Coalition Government’s policy on gangs promises to be one of those sheep-from-goats moments. While the Left will veer instinctively towards the sociological, the Right ...
      1 day ago
    • The Clue Is In The Name.
      Truth In Advertising? The Nats do best when they take the “National” part of their name seriously, WHEN ITS FOUNDERS christened New Zealand’s newest anti-socialist party “National”, they had two objectives. The first was largely cosmetic. The second, and much more important objective, was ideological.In 1936, the year in which ...
      1 day ago
    • Another forced break.
      Well, the time has come yet again for my son to go back into Starship for another major surgery (the fourth in five months). The mass in his chest is growing and has enveloped his left carotid artery as well … Continue reading ...
      KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
      1 day ago
    • BRYCE EDWARDS:  How Wellington City Council got captured by vested interests
      Bryce Edwards writes – Wellington City has become a great case study for those that are suspicious that both local and central government politicians have become enthralled by property developers, the “professional managerial class”, and other vested interests. Politicians from parties of both left and right are increasingly ...
      Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
      1 day ago
    • Gordon Campbell on the Newshub/Smokefree twin fiascos
      H</spanere’s a tale of two sunset industries. One has a track record of quality investigative reporting, and sound reportage of the 24/7 news cycle. The other sunset industry peddles a deadly substance that kills and injures tens of thousands of New Zealanders every year, while imposing significant annual costs on ...
      1 day ago
    • RBNZ's dovish pivot revives rate cut hopes
      The question now is which hint banks will take: the one from Orr that they pass on rate cuts, or the one from Assistant Governor Karen Silk saying they have some leeway to continue not passing them on. File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The Reserve Bank held the ...
      The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
      1 day ago
    • That was Then, This is Now #32 – What's the difference between aluminium and democracy?
      ..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.That was then…Rio Tinto will not reimburse the $30 million Government subsidy it received to keep Tiwai Point open, in spite of posting a $3.7 billion 2013 profit.[…]…if Rio Tinto had closed straightaway and ...
      Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
      1 day ago
    • A Market Model for Intercity Rail
      The North Island Main Trunk rail line between Auckland and Wellington is 680km long, mostly electrified, and low speed for intercity rail (80-100kph). It’s a major public asset, but woefully underutilised. How can we work this asset harder, to deliver way more benefits for our country and our people? This ...
      Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
      1 day ago
    • Redundancies Bite.
      We all knew this government meant redundancies - lots of them. National highlighted they’d be taking a scalpel to government departments, cutting them to the bone. ACT fantasized about going deeper.Thousands losing their jobs in a sector that won’t be hiring any time soon. I could make a joke here ...
      Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
      1 day ago
    • Tough choices on climate change for new government
      Slowly but inexorably, the country is getting to the point where it is going to have to make some tough choices about actually lowering greenhouse gas emissions rather than planting or buying its way out of them. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon, at the weekend, removed any last hope that climate ...
      PolitikBy Richard Harman
      1 day ago
    • That was Then, This is Now #31 – Urgent for me, but not for thee?
      ..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.That was then…“In Parliament today, Labour was pushed to justify their use of urgency to rush through a Bill to get rid of a public veto on Māori wards, and they couldn’t,” National’s Local ...
      Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
      2 days ago
    • Rattus Supermarketicus: Countdown Reopens
      So my infamously rat-infested local supermarket was finally able to re-open today, after spending a good two and a half weeks closed. I went in for a look this evening, having heard that they were offering chocolates earlier in the day. I was disappointed. No chocolates. ...
      2 days ago
    • Clearly still no adults in this Chaos Cabinet, aiming to sell Aotearoa off to the highest bidders…
      Grant Roberston has left the Labour team in Parliament, Efeso Collins tragically died at the outset of what was surely to be a stellar career as an MP… a heavy result last year, losses and a tragedy to start this year. That overall sense of tragedy is not limited ...
      exhALANtBy exhalantblog
      2 days ago
    • Productivity Commission gone tomorrow, Māori Health Authority gone in June – so what should we do...
      The Productivity Commission will cease operations tomorrow, to make way for the new Ministry for Regulation. On the same day, the Waitangi Tribunal will begin an urgent inquiry into the government’s proposal to disestablish the Māori Health Authority. But legislation passed under urgency by Parliament will result in the authority being ...
      Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
      2 days ago
      So you want to be a member of this exciting new government, eh? Good thinking! There’s obviously no future in journalism. We’re not just hiring any old comms person though. We want someone with the right attitude and MOJO. So grab a pen and fill out this questionnaire will you? ...
      More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
      2 days ago
    • Another secret OIA “consultation”
      When the previous government decided in 2018 to review the OIA, the Ministry of Justice decided to do the entire thing in secret, planning a "targeted consultation" with a secret, hand-picked group of lawyers, bloggers and commentators. Because obviously, wider civil society has no interest in the operation of the ...
      No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
      2 days ago
    • Puff! And before you can get through a packet of 20, Parliament will have stubbed out parts of Labo...
      Buzz from the Beehive Health dominated the government’s announcements over the past 24 hour or so, at the same time as Parliament was debating legislation to abolish the Maori Health Authority and repeal parts of the previous government’s planned changes to regulate smoked tobacco. Health Minister Shane Reti brandished a ...
      Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
      2 days ago
    • Journalism in New Zealand Is Collapsing
      Hi,I was not intending to send out a Webworm today, and I hate that I am having to write about this.After nearly 35 years of broadcasting, the TV newsroom in New Zealand that was my home for about a decade is set to close in June.Some of my closest and ...
      David FarrierBy David Farrier
      2 days ago
    • A revolting breach of Te Tiriti
      In 2019, the Waitangi Tribunal released a preliminary report in the Wai 2575 inquiry, finding pervasive inequities in the New Zealand health system which systematically disadvantaged Māori, in breach of Ti Tiriti O Waitangi. It recommended the creation of an independent Māori Health Authority as one way of remedying these ...
      No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
      2 days ago
    • Bishop wants house prices to halve vs income
      TL;DR: Housing, Infrastructure and RMA Reform minister Minister Chris Bishop gave the new Government’s most important and ambitious speech of its first 100 days yesterday, pledging to flood cities with land for homes and help give councils new revenue to pay for the water and transport infrastructure needed to build ...
      The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
      2 days ago
    • Lyin' Luxon
      All we want is a touch of truthnot cue-card words for the polling booththis ballhead man and his MacDonalds wisdomselling soap or a new tax systemSo begin the lyrics for the new single, Lyin’ Luxon (and his tobacco goons)”, from Darren Watson - released just this morning. You can check ...
      Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
      2 days ago
    • Albo gives Luxon a big invite
      Prime Minister Christopher Luxon gets his first big foreign affairs opportunity next week when he travels to Melbourne for the 50th Anniversary of Australia’s partnership with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN). Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has invited the heads of all ten members for a special summit. ...
      PolitikBy Richard Harman
      2 days ago
    • Of Mining Interests and the West Coast-Tasman Result: Look at the Split Vote
      The various New Zealand election donations have been disclosed, and one Jonathan Milne has noticed the role of mining interests in backing an independent candidate on the West Coast: The article goes on to suggest that the independent candidate’s performance – garnering some 5903 votes – was key ...
      3 days ago
    • At a glance – Is Greenland gaining or losing ice?
      On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
      3 days ago
    • Dark money has entered the New Zealand electoral scene at unprecedented levels
      Radio NZ’s Farah Hancock has analysed the Electoral Commission returns of money paid to influence the 2023 NZ General Election. Her article $2m surge in election campaign spending by third-party groups (RNZ) shows that as well as the huge donations-directly-to-the-parties imbalance, previously reported, a large amount of untraceable dark money ...
      The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
      3 days ago
    • I remember better days
      The school property system is BORDERING ON CRISIS according to the Prime Minister and his Education Minister.Same old crisis panic button. God only knows what they’ll press when they get a real one.The self-serving agenda here is pretty transparent: Find ourselves an out for not delivering what people expect us ...
      More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
      3 days ago
    • No, it isn’t a surprise – the government is disestablishing the Māori Health Authority (just a...
      Latest from the Beehive The mainstream news media have been grimly auguring this news for  the past few days under headings such as… Axing Māori Health Authority before hearing ‘disrespectful’ — expert (One News); Coalition Government to forge ahead with repeal of smokefree laws, Māori Health Authority this week ...
      Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
      3 days ago
    • BRYCE EDWARDS: NZ elections are being Americanised with “dark money” flowing into campaign grou...
      Bryce Edwards writes –  Elections in the United States are dominated by big money. But what isn’t commonly understood is that most of it is raised and spent, not by the political parties and candidates for office, but by special interest groups who run their own election campaigns to ...
      Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
      3 days ago
    • More dishonesty from Costello
      When Cancer Minister Casey Costello was caught lying to the media and to Parliament about whether or not she had requested advice on cutting tobacco excise tax to benefit the cancer industry, her explanation was to blame "confusion arising from my understanding of the differentiation between seeking specific advice and ...
      No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
      3 days ago
    • LINDSAY MITCHELL: Child poverty – complex or simple?
      Question: Do you understand how the child poverty statistics are derived? Clearly some people do not. Last week the latest child poverty statistics were all over the media. But there are a number of misunderstandings that need addressing. Like this one from NewstalkZB’s John MacDonald who wrote: Living in households ...
      Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
      3 days ago
    • CHRIS TROTTER: Tougher love
      Mark Mitchell’s gang laws will separate the liberal sheep from the authoritarian goats Chris Trotter writes – THE INTENSIFYING POLITICAL CONTROVERSY over the Coalition Government’s policy on gangs promises to be one of those sheep-from-goats moments. While the Left will veer instinctively towards the sociological, the Right ...
      Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
      3 days ago
    • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 am 'pick 'n' mix' for Feb 27
      A mega-documentary about the influence of China’s Communist Party in our political system that remains stuck inside Stuff’s editorial system. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s my top ten links to news, papers and reports elsewhere as at 10 am on Tuesday February 27:Today’s must-read: Whatever happened to Stuff Circuit’s ...
      The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
      3 days ago
    • The day our infrastructure deficits came home to roost
      Ugly moments of infrastructure deficit truth are popping up all over, including the revelation that Wellington’s train service will be disrupted for up to 15 years. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: National and Labour are bickering over who is to blame for ‘mismanagement’ of infrastructure spending on rail and ...
      The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
      3 days ago
    • It’s March Madness Time again
      We may still be in February but yesterday marked the start of March Madness, typically the busiest time of the year for transport of all modes. That’s due to a number of factors, such as: The summer holiday period is over meaning All schools and now University’s being ...
      3 days ago
    • What do you think about Christopher Luxon?
      As some of you might know Darren Watson's new track "Lyin' Luxon" will be out tomorrow.I'm going to write about that subject today so if there's anything you'd like to say about Luxon, his government, policies, his partners and investors, or what he's doing to our country then please feel ...
      Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
      3 days ago
    • A TV Hero Goes Down the Wormhole
      Note: This story includes feedback from a central character in this story — I’ve included that at the end in its entirety.Hi,When I started Webworm four years ago, it seemed like a novelty to write about people getting sucked into beliefs like QAnon. As Kiwi lingerie makers opened their third ...
      David FarrierBy David Farrier
      3 days ago
    • Climate Adam: Are food influencers wrong about climate change?
      This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). The food industry is one of the biggest drivers of climate change. So how are our diets causing disaster? Some people ...
      4 days ago
    • Funding announced for landfill improvements and farmers – but the headline grabber is news of a cr...
      Buzz from the Beehive The government has been dishing out sums of money in much the same way as the Ardern-Hipkins government has done. Four historic landfill sites will benefit from the granting of $6.6 million to clean up old landfill sites And the coalition Government is  providing support for ...
      Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
      4 days ago
    • Yes, voters supported the scrapping of the Māori Health Authority – but Stuff reminds us of the W...
      Reinforcing the credence of an article posted here last week, Stuff yet again has been promoting the notion that “The Treaty” should over-ride the country’s democratic governance arrangements. In the article published on Point of Order under the headline Media chiefs struggle to understand democracy, Graham Adams noted that New ...
      Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
      4 days ago
    • Executive summaries
      Here in the seaside village, we have people of all callings.We have butchers, bakers, candlestick makers. We have panelbeaters, librarians and sailors.We have novelists, poets and the guy who wrote Six Months in A Leaky Boat.And of course, we have executives. It is, you assume, for such people—our executives, living in ...
      More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
      4 days ago
    • An anti-constitutional government
      Aotearoa has a lot of problems at the moment: climate change, housing, water, rich people refusing to pay their way. So of course the government has decided to crack down on gangs, as a distraction from all of the above. Their proposals violate the freedoms of expression and association, and ...
      No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
      4 days ago
    • ROGER PARTRIDGE: Has the Supreme Court lost its way?
        Roger Partridge writes –  With age comes wisdom – or so it is said. Yet exceptions abound. A notable reflection from leading lawyer Jack Hodder on the Supreme Court’s 20th anniversary suggests the Court is ...
      Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
      4 days ago
    • BRIAN EASTON: Do we take Regulatory Impact Statements seriously?
      The Sorry Story of Earthquake-Prone Buildings * Brian Easton writes – The Treasury requires that when new or amended legislation is proposed, a Regulatory Impact Statement (RIS) be provided – ‘a high-level summary of the problem being addressed, the options and their associated costs and benefits, the consultation undertaken, and the ...
      Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
      4 days ago
    • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 am 'pick 'n' mix'
      Here’s my top ten links to news, papers and reports elsewhere as at 10 am on Monday February 26:Today’s must-read: How one miner’s political donation changed an electorate result. Newsroom Jonathan MilneLocal scoop: Car dealers cash in on EV subsidies for ‘company cars’ RNZ Eloise GibsonOverseas scoop: Meta pushed ahead ...
      The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
      4 days ago
    • February-24 AT Board Meeting
      Tomorrow the AT board have their first meeting of the year. it will also be the first meeting for new chair Richard Leggat. You can watch the open session on this Teams link with the meeting due to start at 10am. As usual, I’ve taken a look through the reports ...
      4 days ago
    • Mark Mitchell – Mercenary Man.
      Before Mark Mitchell was known for not being able to keep to the official party line on police numbers. Even further back, before Mitchell’s brainfart that he could stop the gangs by making them wear makeup over their tattoos. Back before he was even an MP, Mark Mitchell was a ...
      Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
      4 days ago
    • Will the RBNZ upset NZ Inc's applecart?
      After contemplating the inflationary pressures of the first 100 days of the new Government, the RBNZ may decide it needs to hike on Wednesday. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Te Pūtea Matua, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand, could shock our political economy with a rate hike this Wednesday ...
      The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
      4 days ago
    • Shane Jones’ fast track is not what the Nats’ base wants to hear about
      If anybody stole the show at National’s Blue Greens Forum at the weekend at Waitangi, it was Environment Minister Penny Simmonds. When she said she had re-directed millions from staff training in Wellington to local conservation boards in the regions, she was greeted with widespread applause. She had hit the ...
      PolitikBy Richard Harman
      4 days ago
    • Ending Free Prescriptions and Elections Having Consequences
      So National won the 2023 election, and since then has set about doing exactly what it’d say it’d do – screwing over poor people and workers. One of their more spiteful election promises, the restoration of fees on prescription medicines, has yet to pass, but there is little doubt they’ll ...
      5 days ago
    • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #08
      A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, Feb 18, 2024 thru Sat, Feb 24, 2024. Story of the week “In the tropical eastern Atlantic, it’s four months ahead of pace—it’s looking like it’s already June out ...
      5 days ago
    • Slow train of accountability for Cameron Slater
      It’s an adage, almost a cliche: ‘Justice delayed is Justice denied’, but genuinely, that has to be one’s response to news this last week: That dirty PR attack blogger Cameron Slater has (finally) been judged in the High Court to have defamed Auckland businessman Matt Blomfield. Further, that Slater’s false ...
      The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
      5 days ago
    • Not political in the slightest
      In one way it was phenomenally dull, in another fascinating. He had never met people with such certainty before. Jews and Catholics were less. Irish ugly, Chinese and Aborigines not even human. They did not think such things. They knew them.The Narrow Road to The Deep North Richard Flanagan Wellington ...
      More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
      5 days ago
    • CHRIS TROTTER: Democracy denied
      Political Intervention From Above: From the early-1970s on, lobbying firms and think-tanks have grown like Topsy all across the capitalist world. Had the progressive middle-class not drawn its teeth and clipped its claws, an angry working-class might have risen to meet the Robber Baron’s challenge as it did in the 1890s, ...
      Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
      6 days ago
    • Aotearoa Divided.
      Hey, hey, heyThere's no need to panicThis is just how it isYour pulse is fast and franticAnd it feels like you'll explodePanic isn’t the right word, although sometimes I feel a bit that way when I think about things. Despair is probably more accurate. And sadness. Those are the things ...
      Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
      6 days ago
    • The Hoon around the week to Feb 23
      Luxon says Kiwis need to face the ‘brutal facts of our reality’, but the evidence shows our financial position is nowhere near as troubling as in 1991 and even if it were, the advice of the ‘financial grown-ups’ of the world is to avoid pointless austerity measures. Photo: Lynn Grieveson ...
      The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
      6 days ago
    • Hell of a week
      Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Friday: Week in review, quiz style1. What did the Atlas Network do in Aotearoa this week?a. Got a tobacco whistleblower firedb. Got Michael Bassett to ghost-write legislation c. Planted Kompromat on John Campbell d. ...
      More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
      6 days ago
    • Media chiefs struggle to understand democracy
      Graham Adams writes — Listening to Sinead Boucher speak last week at a parliamentary hearing on the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill, it was easy to be captivated momentarily by her rhetoric about democracies requiring a strong and free media. Addressing the select committee MPs, she said: “A strong, ...
      Point of OrderBy gadams1000
      7 days ago

    • Government supports safer digital transactions
      The Government supports the recommendations of the Finance and Expenditure Committee reports on bank scam processes, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Scams are becoming more sophisticated and causing a growing number of vulnerable Kiwis significant emotional harm and financial loss. “Altogether, nearly $200 million was lost to ...
      28 mins ago
    • Government congratulates JPs on centenary
      Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee has extended her congratulations to the Royal Federation of New Zealand Justices’ Associations on its centenary this year. The occasion is being celebrated at the Federation’s annual AGM and Conference, which opens in Wellington today.  “Justices of the Peace (JPs) play a vital role ...
      4 hours ago
    • Government going after gangs’ guns with FPOs
      The Government is continuing its work to restore law and order, announcing new measures that will enable police to crack down on gangs through Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPOs).  “Firearms are being illegally used by gangs to intimidate, to commit violent crime in support of their profit making, and to initiate ...
      6 hours ago
    • Open ocean salmon farm a win for the economy
      The final approval of New Zealand King Salmon’s Blue Endeavour open ocean aquaculture project is a significant step for New Zealand’s aquaculture, and a win for the economy, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says.  “Blue Endeavour will be the first open ocean aquaculture salmon farm in New Zealand. It’s ...
      6 hours ago
    • NZ – UAE trade agreement consultation begins
      Following a meeting with UAE Trade Minister Dr. Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi at the WTO Ministerial Conference in Abu Dhabi, Trade Minister Todd McClay has launched public consultation for a trade agreement between New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE).   “The UAE is a top-20 export market for ...
      21 hours ago
    • Minister thanks Public Service Commissioner
      Public Service Minister Nicola Willis has thanked retiring Public Service Commissioner Peter Hughes for his 43 years of service. Mr Hughes retires today, after serving eight years as Public Service Commissioner.  “Peter Hughes is an outstanding public servant who has served many governments, regardless of their political leaning, with professionalism and ...
      23 hours ago
    • Tourism data shows determination of sector
      New tourism data out today shows the continued importance of tourism to the New Zealand economy as tourism steps up to become our second-biggest export earner, Tourism Minister Matt Doocey says. “The Tourism Satellite Account shows how strongly tourism rebounded post-pandemic with total tourism expenditure in New Zealand of $37.7b ...
      1 day ago
    • Housing Minister thanks outgoing Kāinga Ora Chair
      Housing Minister Chris Bishop has today thanked outgoing Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities Chair Vui Mark Gosche for his many years of public service. “Mr Gosche tendered his resignation as Chair yesterday evening. He will remain a member of the Board until the end of March,” says Housing Minister ...
      1 day ago
    • New sanctions package against Russia
      Foreign Minister Winston Peters today announced a new package of sanctions as part of the ongoing international sanction response to Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.   The new sanctions are:   Implementation of the G7-plus price cap on Russian-origin oil; making explicit the prohibition on exporting restricted ...
      1 day ago
    • Travel bans on extremist Israeli settlers
      Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have announced travel bans on a number of extremist Israeli settlers who have committed violent attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank.   “New Zealand is seriously concerned by the significant increase in extremist violence perpetrated by Israeli settlers against Palestinian populations in recent months. This is ...
      1 day ago
    • NZ designates entirety of Hamas as terrorist entity
      Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have announced today the designation of Hamas in its entirety as a terrorist entity.   “The terrorist attacks by Hamas in October 2023 were brutal and we have unequivocally condemned them,” Mr Luxon says.    Following these attacks, then Prime Minister Chris Hipkins commissioned advice from officials about designating the ...
      1 day ago
    • Government announces independent review of forestry ETS costs
      Forestry Minister Todd McClay has today announced an independent review into the forestry component of the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) Register to ensure it is efficient and cost-effective. “Up and down the country forestry owners have been raising concerns about the excessive costs that have been imposed upon them by ...
      1 day ago
    • Access barriers to PET-CT scans removed
      New Zealanders now have the same access to PET-CT scans no matter where they live, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. Health New Zealand - Te Whatu Ora has approved funding an updated national set of criteria that will allow for about 1,000 more PET-CT scans a year to be ...
      1 day ago
    • Air New Zealand and Singapore Airlines’ alliance extended
      Associate Transport Minister Matt Doocey announced today that the Government has extended Air New Zealand and Singapore Airlines’ strategic alliance for another five years. “Reauthorising this strategic partnership means that passengers flying in and out of New Zealand will continue to have access to a wide range of flights and destinations,” ...
      2 days ago
    • Health system reforms need further action
      Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the latest report into New Zealand’s health reforms shows a few benefits, but overall once again demonstrates a lack of leadership by the previous Labour government.  The Ministerial Advisory Committee (MAC) report released today was commissioned by the previous government to provide an independent ...
      2 days ago
    • Parallel assessment means new medicines assessed sooner
      Pharmac is changing its process so it can assess a funding application at the same time Medsafe is assessing the application for regulatory approval. This means that medicines will be able to be considered for funding sooner in New Zealand. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ ...
      2 days ago
    • Smokefree Amendment Bill Introduced
      The Government has today introduced an Amendment Bill that will repeal three parts of the previous Government’s planned changes to regulate smoked tobacco. “The Coalition Government is committed to the Smokefree 2025 goal, but we are taking a different regulatory approach to reducing smoking rates and the harm from smoking,” ...
      3 days ago
    • Targeted support for young people
      Recently allocated Ministry of Youth Development funding will support more than 6700 young people to receive targeted youth development support to remain in education or transition to further training or employment and improve their wellbeing, Youth Minister Matt Doocey says.  Funding of $10.69 million will be allocated to 34 community-based ...
      3 days ago
    • Reshaping the health system to bring Māori health closer to home
      Legislation that will disestablish the Māori Health Authority will be introduced in Parliament today, heralding the start of a new vision for Māori health says Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti.  “We have said we will bring healthcare for all New Zealanders closer to the home and closer to the ...
      3 days ago
    • Speech to the Wellington Chamber of Commerce
      Acknowledgements Good morning. Can I start by acknowledging Simon and the team at the Chamber. Thanks for the invitation to be here today. Introduction In October last year New Zealanders voted for change. The Coalition government was elected with a clear mandate to rebuild the economy and reduce the cost ...
      3 days ago
    • NZ welcomes Australia and Brazil to agreements
      New Zealand has welcomed Australia to the Inclusive Trade Action Group (ITAG) and Australia and Brazil to the Global Trade and Gender Arrangement (GTAGA) Minister for Trade Todd McClay says.  As the current chair of ITAG and GTAGA, Minister McClay hosted the signing ceremony and issued the Abu Dhabi Joint ...
      4 days ago
    • Inquiry announced into school property
      The Government will conduct a Ministerial Inquiry to address problems with the school property system where the scope of property works planned was unrealistic and unaffordable. “The coalition Government has inherited a school property system bordering on crisis,” Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “There have been a number of cost escalations ...
      4 days ago
    • New Chair for Guardians of NZ Superannuation
      Company director and investor John Williamson has been appointed as the new Chair of the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation, the Crown entity that oversees the NZ Super Fund and the Elevate NZ Venture Capital Fund, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today.  Mr Williamson will take up his new position ...
      4 days ago
    • Northland open for business as critical works to repair SH1 Brynderwyn Hills begin
      The Government is encouraging New Zealanders to support, visit, and explore Northland, as the closure and detour of SH1 at the Bryderwyn Hills begins, and critical repair work by the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) gets underway, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Many regions across the country suffered extensive and devastating ...
      4 days ago
    • Government backs police to crackdown on gangs
      The coalition Government is restoring law and order by providing police new tools to crack down on criminal gangs, says Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell.  “Over the last five years gangs have recruited more than 3000 members, a 51 per cent increase. At the same time, ...
      5 days ago
    • Northland’s new Kāeo Bridge officially open
      Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the official opening of the new State Highway 10 (SH10) Kāeo Bridge, which will improve safety and traffic flow for people heading to and from the Far North. “This is an important piece of infrastructure for the Northland region that will help members of ...
      6 days ago
    • Government grants $6.6 million to clean up old landfill sites
      The Government has granted $6.6 million to clean up four historic New Zealand landfill and dump sites vulnerable to extreme weather events and coastal erosion. At the BlueGreens Forum in Paihia today Environment Minister Penny Simmonds said that the Contaminated Sites Remediation Fund grants will go towards fixing former landfills ...
      6 days ago
    • Dry weather triggers extra support for farmers and growers across the top of the South Island
      The coalition Government is providing support for farmers and growers as dry conditions worsen across the top of the South Island. “Conditions on the ground across the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are now extremely dry and likely to get worse in the coming months,” Agriculture Minister Todd McClay said. ...
      7 days ago
    • Trade Minister heads to Abu Dhabi for key WTO negotiations
      Trade Minister Todd McClay travels to Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates for the 13th Ministerial Conference of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) today, to take up his role as Vice Chair of the negotiations. The Ministerial Conference is the highest decision-making body within the WTO and meets every ...
      1 week ago
    • Appointment round for King’s Counsel announced
      Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced an appointment round for King’s Counsel will take place in 2024. Appointments of King’s Counsel are made by the Governor-General on the recommendation of the Attorney-General and with the concurrence of the Chief Justice. The Governor-General retains the discretion to appoint King’s Counsel in recognition ...
      1 week ago
    • Retiring Chief of Navy thanked for his service
      Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Navy, Rear Admiral David Proctor, for his service as he retires from the Royal New Zealand Navy after 37 years. Rear Admiral Proctor will retire on 16 May to take up an employment opportunity in Australia.  “I would like to thank ...
      1 week ago
    • Indonesian Vice President to visit New Zealand
      Indonesia’s Vice President Ma’ruf Amin will visit New Zealand next week, the first here by an Indonesian leader since 2018, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has announced. “New Zealand and Indonesia have a strong partnership,” Mr Peters says.  “The Vice President’s visit is an opportunity to discuss how we can strengthen ...
      1 week ago
    • Government boost to fight against caulerpa
      The battle to contain the fast-spreading exotic caulerpa seaweed has today received a $5 million boost to accelerate the development of removal techniques, says Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard.  “The time is now to really lean in and build on the work of Biosecurity New Zealand, mana whenua, communities and local ...
      1 week ago
    • Minister attending Australian data, digital meeting
      Minister for Digitising Government Judith Collins is in Sydney to attend the first Data and Digital Ministers’ Meeting of 2024.  “This is a great opportunity to connect with our Australian counterparts and identify how we can work together on digital transformation,” Ms Collins says.   “Both our nations are looking into ...
      1 week ago
    • Appointments to Antarctica New Zealand Board
      Foreign Minister Winston Peters has appointed Leon Grice and Heather Simpson to serve on the Antarctica New Zealand board.  “Since taking office, the Coalition Government has become concerned about the direction of the Scott Base Redevelopment Project,” Mr Peters says.  “It is vital that Antarctica New Zealand has the right ...
      1 week ago
    • Strengthening the Single Economic Market
      Finance Minister Nicola Willis has met with Australian Treasurer Jim Chalmers to discuss the opportunities to lower business costs and increase the ease with which businesses and people can operate across the Tasman.     “I have met with Treasurer Chalmers and shared our new Government’s ambitious economic goals, our plans ...
      1 week ago
    • Government to address business payment practices
      The Government will repeal the Business Payment Practices Act 2023, Small Business and Manufacturing Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “There is a major problem with large market players imposing long payment terms and routinely paying invoices late. “However, the Business Payment Practices Act is not an effective solution and would ...
      1 week ago
    • Greater focus on work will reduce child poverty
      Worsening child poverty rates support the Coalition Government’s focus on reducing the cost of living and getting people into work, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. Figures released by Stats NZ today show child poverty rates have increased, with the rising cost of living, driven by inflation, making it ...
      1 week ago
    • NZ announces new support for Ukraine
      Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins have marked two years since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine by announcing further support and sanctions, and extending our military assistance. “Russia launched its illegal, full-scale invasion of Ukraine, in blatant violation of international law, including the UN Charter,” Mr Peters says. ...
      1 week ago
    • Finalists of Ahuwhenua Trophy announced
      Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka announced the two finalists for this year’s Ahuwhenua Trophy at Parliament yesterday.  “I am pleased to see such a high calibre of Māori dairy farms featured as finalists this year,” Mr Potaka says. The finalists for 2024 are: Wairarapa Moana ki Pouakani Whakatōhea Māori Trust ...
      1 week ago

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