Phil Quin resigns from Labour

Written By: - Date published: 12:37 pm, July 14th, 2015 - 390 comments
Categories: China, cost of living, Financial markets, Globalisation, housing, overseas investment, phil twyford, tenants' rights - Tags:

Labour’s calculated but badly judged weekend adventure into race politics is reverberating.

I find it cynical that Twyford, Little and Labour aren’t “courageous” enough to hold firm on something like the CGT, a tax which would directly impact the comfortable property portfolio owning middle class in Auckland, but they are somehow “courageous” enough to step up and point the finger at the Chinese (when they are now outbidding that same comfortable Auckland middle class and their kids for $900K Mt Eden villas).

Let’s be clear here: apart from popular posturing, no political party appears to have any clue on how to make an Auckland first home affordable for the average worker earning $50K pa, let alone those many who are earning less.

Ban foreign ownership of NZ land I say. But make it an issue of economic sovereignty (a phrase Twyford never used in the weekend), not of race.

Quin says in an email to the Labour Party General Secretary, Tim Barnett:

Dear Mr. Barnett

In light of Labour’s calculated decision over the weekend to deploy racial profiling as a political tactic, I resign my membership of the party.

I am stunned that Labour, as a matter of conscious political strategy, would trawl through a dubiously ­acquired list of property buyers to identify Chinese­sounding names. Even as I write the words, I can scarcely believe that senior party leaders – or anyone of good conscience, for that matter – thought it an advisable course of action. That they are now defending it – even attacking Susan Devoy for her principled comments on the subject – compounds my disappointment.

I lived and worked in Rwanda for several years, including in 2014, during the twentieth commemoration of the genocide against the Tutsi minority. Many of my former colleagues, still dear friends, are among the few who survived the slaughter. They taught me something about what happens when political parties start compiling lists based on ethnicity. Nothing good can come from racial profiling of the kind Labour chose to employ in pursuit of a headline and a poll bump.

It seems to me that what Quin is saying, is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions – and that Labour should have known better. I am trying to find a link to Quin’s full resignation letter. Edit – Here it is: (thanks Stephanie Rodgers!)

Meanwhile Bryce Edwards has compiled a list of top tweets around Labour’s ill-judged racial foray. My favourite from that well known right winger Raybon Kan:

Raybon Kan ‏@RaybonKan

No wonder John A Lee had a tough time in the Labour Party. Lee?!? What sort of a name is that mate? Have you bought a house?!?

As I have been saying, Labour has wondered into the middle of a minefield and it doesn’t even know it yet.

390 comments on “Phil Quin resigns from Labour”

  1. His name is Phil Quin.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      Thanks Patrick – corrected

    • dukeofurl 1.2

      Never heard of him !

    • Old Mickey 1.3

      who is he ?

      • mickysavage 1.3.1

        He is no left wing saviour. He has attacked the party publicly for years and think we made a bad decision in keeping Helen Clark as leader. He with the Paganis are firm believers of Blairite third way politics, the sort that gave us the beneficiary on the roof speech from David Shearer.

        He was also allegedly in the process of setting up an alternative left wing party and/or faction within Labour based on Progress in the UK. I suspect that we will see some more activity on this part so his self martyrdom needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

        • heather

          I agree with you, Phil was talking about ‘people from overseas coming and buying our houses’
          It is interesting, I can not think of another country in the world where you can get off a plane, and buy and house or and island and go home!
          This has been blown out of all proportion by the National Party and their followers with a deliberate intent to cause trouble.
          I too have been a member of the Labour Party for a very long time, and I want to see New Zealanders being able to purchase houses, I do not feel I have to resign from the Labour Party.

        • lprent

          Indeed. I’ve always considered myself to have been out on the right of Labour because of my intensely international business and economics background. But I’m socially strongly liberal and given to trying to provide workable upward mobility (the latter part distinguishes me from the ACToids – they seem to have social Darwinism genetically wired into their psyche).

          But I have never figured out what in the hell those bozos like Quinn were trying to achieve. Sort of socially conservative basher with a rather strange crony capitalistic bent. But I really suspect that it has more to do with some kind of “I want power/I love the game” leverage than actual thought through convictions.

          Anyway, I’d be rather pleased to see them fade to obscurity.

        • leftie

          In my humble opinion, it is no great loss this pretender has resigned. Labour is better off.

          • Thom Pietersen

            Agreed – part of the ideological nutbar PC brigade – Labour – working people, working, not bloody bludging. Maybe he could join the elitist arse sitting privileged geoglobal money party (I’d bang in a bit of totalitarianism – if people would keep shtum about the price of a TV).

        • Irascible

          In all my years in the Labour Party I’ve never met, heard or seen Phil Quin taking an active or positive role at any level. Anything I’ve ever heard about him has been derogatory and derisory. His resignation should, therefore be seen for what it is, grandstanding by a nonentity in an effort to rebuild his often ignored ego.

        • Chris

          Quin will be very pleased he managed to snag ethnicity as the issue to resign on. Right-wing twat.

  2. Sacha 2

    If they were ‘courageous’ they would be standing behind their racist dogwhistling rather than insisting everyone has them wrong.

  3. Anne 3

    Glad he’s gone and I hope he takes his right-wing third way friends (eg. Josie Pagani) with him. They can set up their own little think tank and run down Labour (as they have been doing for a very long time) ad infinitum.

    • D'Esterre 3.1

      @ Anne: “Glad he’s gone and I hope he takes his right-wing third way friends (eg. Josie Pagani) with him. ”

      Yup. Were I a Labour party member, I’d be delighted at his departure.

    • Dave_1924 3.2

      No room for other voices in a broad church Labour Party then Anne? Serious question and not trying to wind you up. Am actually interested in what you believe is the core of NZ Labour Party these days? Cheers

      • greywarshark 3.2.1

        @Dave et al
        There must have been an earthquake. Its started the grandfather clocks going, swinging their pendulums. The works haven’t moved since probably before 2000 which is why there are new, naive questions about matters that were stale a decade ago.

        Or may be it’s just such lovely troll bait.

    • Sanctuary 3.3

      +100 Anne

      All this has done is given the likes of Quinn and whole pile of other middle class, identity politics Blairist ex-Labour types the fig leaf they needed to start honest about the fact they now
      vote National. Bye bye, you won’t be missed.

    • greywarshark 3.4

      Too right, not too left! The Mighty Quin has had his day, and he’s getting so old that he can’t tell an indicative statistic from a firm researched one based on properly collected statistics. But from what i have read of him, he never has. Bet he is doing some good business with the Chinese and that has governed his ‘principled’ resignation.

      Unfortunately you can’t always get good political help these days. So resignation to the reality frequently happens.

    • leftie 3.5


    • whateva next? 3.6

      ad nauseum rather! Labour is about co operation, cohesion and compromise, not a federation of self interested separatists. Time to sort the wheat from the chaff.

      • Anne 3.6.1

        ad nauseum rather!

        That’s the word I should have used. Reached the age when the mind seems to go a blank sometimes. Thanks for the correction. 🙂

  4. weka 4

    Who is Phil Quin?

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      a former Labour staffer, usually considered to be on the right wing of the party.

      • Paul 4.1.1

        So hardly a loss then.

        • Tracey

          is that the point paul? you usually want ethics from our reps

          • Paul

            I want us to be able to discuss the crisis of housing in New Zealand. Clearly members of the ACT Party are trying to close down this discussion.
            It is not racist.

            As one commentator put it ‘any reasonable country will realise that if they do not allow foreign land purchases in their own country then they should have little expectation to be allowed to buy land in other countries – this is not a racist argument but one of protecting your land for your citizens.’

            • Amanda Atkinson

              Stop talking about ACT all the time then, Paul. ACT is irrelevant. No one cares what they say or think, except you. Why? Your ACT comments don’t even make sense.

              • Paul

                Your views on unions previously stated suggest shared ideas with that extremist party.

                • Your act is more ACT than act – doesn’t that worry you?

                • Amanda Atkinson

                  Answer the question. I am sure your obsession with ACT is not directly at me, so for everyone else’s benefit, perhaps you’d like to say something sensible, and explain “why you care what ACT says”, and why you think this debate is being framed by ACT. I think most Standard readers have enough intelligence to make up their own minds about this, depsite what ACT says. What is ACY saying about this? I haven’t heard a peep. Anyway, Twyford is on the right path. He’s got a good policy. Do ACT agree with his housing policy? Enlighten us because I have no idea. If they do, is it suddenly a bad policy, just because ACT agree (if they indeed do) with Tywford in wanting foreigners to build new houses, not buy existing ones?

                • Amanda Atkinson

                  Oh right, I am an extremist because I spoke about 1 bad union experience. Carefully missing out that I am pro union, and have majority of positive union experiences. As I said before, you are irrelevant, Paul, and so is your vote. Centre votes win elections, not lefty extremists. If you want the left to win, you need us to vote centre left again, like we did when Helen was running the ship, instead of centre right. I’d suggest a change in your approach, if you want centre voters to come left with you again.

                  • Paul

                    Disagree totally.
                    You sound like a fan of Blair, Quin, Pagani etc.
                    Following the ‘middle road’ has been the death of the Labour Party as it has adopted more and more neoliberal policies to appease the wealthy elite and bankers.
                    It is only countries that have stood up to neoliberalism that have freed themselves.

            • weka

              As one commentator put it ‘any reasonable country will realise that if they do not allow foreign land purchases in their own country then they should have little expectation to be allowed to buy land in other countries – this is not a racist argument but one of protecting your land for your citizens.’

              Has anyone who votes on the left and who is raising issues of racism actually said that it’s racist to not allow foreign ownership? Because that’s not what I’ve been hearing, but I might have missed something.

              • I haven’t read anyone saying that. Paul is disingenuous in his dutiful deflection.

              • Nessalt

                the problem isn’t with banning foreign ownership. the problem is identifying one particular group of foreigners as the problem and therefore foreign ownership must be curtailed. THAT’S racist!!

                • weka


                • mickysavage

                  The problem is that one particular country’s banking system has $21 trillion in deposit accounts waiting to be spent. This is enough to buy Auckland’s total housing stock about 50 times over.

                  Can someone say how we can discuss this particular aspect without it being considered racist?

                  • Nessalt

                    the yellow wall of chinese capital? cmon mickey, think harder about the framing.

                    “historically low, even negative interest rates world wide have created a flush of hot money looking for a return. NZ’s relative prosperity, stability combined with the startling recovery from the twin effects of the GFC and a massive earthquake flattening it’s second most important city, make it an attractive investment prospect for international investors. A loose financial regulartory framework designed to encourage foreign investment has created a surging housing market in the largest city auckland. this has priced new zealand residents out of the market and has put the home ownership dream beyond reach for a whole generation. Labour will stop the inflow of foreign capital into our current domestic housing stock to ensure the bubble the national government has allowed to balloon does not tank the nations hopes of further prosperity. labour will to allow foreign investors or potential residents the opportunity to own housing stock in new zealand as long as it is a new build, built on leasehold land with standard 99 year lease terms at favourable rates available to all.”

                    the answer is so simple and allows labour to craft a broad fiscal policy platform that favours all around it. regular lease payments on government land, home ownership is back on the table, concerns about hot capital flowing in to dormant assets whose only attribute is it’s scarcity are completely allayed. the housing stock is increased. A thoughtful, positive policy that pays tribute to the hopes and dreams and positivity of new zealand and truly shows a sense of fair play.

                    or “yellow peril at our shores and doors”. your choice, this isn’t my labour party any more either.

                  • weka

                    “Can someone say how we can discuss this particular aspect without it being considered racist?”

                    Put it in a sovereignty context rather than an economic one.

                    Focus on a range of inter-related policies.

                    Give examples from all over the country that demonstrated this is about many different countries that have more wealth than NZ (and exchange rate issues).

                    Start a discussion why who owns land is important (which of course is very complex because of NZ’s history, and a problem for Labour because it by and large still supports neoliberal capitalism).

                    Bring in associated issues of social housing (govt and local body), why so many people want/need to live in Auckland, why the people have no control over this, wage rates, the banking system, etc etc.

                    I’d also go off on a tangent about the building industry and why it’s so expensive to build a house now, or why so many barriers are being put in the way of people who can build good houses cheaply.

                    • North

                      Yeah, Mickey Savage should really be saying – “There’s a nation in this world which I won’t name which has $21 trillion slopping around, just dying to be spent outside of the nation I won’t name…….”

                      You think that’d make a scrap of difference to the domestic-politics invigorated, born-again Nelson Mandela’s on the right ? Or the ‘immaculate’ putatively of the Left. Rather than screeching “racist” they’d be screeching – “Racist, without the balls to name the nation we all know he’s referring to !”

                      Morality check here – how many of the screechers (if they even know about it) care to consider Nelson Mandela’s assertion that Zionist Israel is an apartheid state ? While squatting on their Khandallah sofas viewing the biennial Gaza fireworks, sighingly remarking – “Well, they will fire those rockets !” Not heard much about ‘racism’ in that context.

                      Classism is inextricably tied to racism. Seems it’s overpoweringly seductive, just sometimes, to express outrage – the ‘sometimes’ being when politically rather than philosophically perceived ‘racism’ is seen to relate to a ‘class’ which the screecher readily identifies with.

                      Nah……don’t give a fuck about the $21 trillion and the broad consequences of a truly inflationary scenario for New Zealand. “Whatever happens, I’ll never be touched. Now……let’s angrily disport Our Sometimes Morality !”

                      PS: CV is NOT a subject of my comments. Neither are various others I respect – Marty M – too many to mention actually. Snobs Left or Right and KeyFuckers out for a stroll – Yes.

                    • weka

                      Yeah, Mickey Savage should really be saying – “There’s a nation in this world which I won’t name which has $21 trillion slopping around, just dying to be spent outside of the nation I won’t name…….”

                      Nice rhetoric, but you get that that’s not what I am saying right?

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      That’s a false dichotomy in respect of sovereignty versus the economy – that’s kind of the point.
                      But anyways, Fran O’Sullivan’s piece in the Herald tonight on what she calls an ”issue of major public importance” is the best thing I’ve read during this debate/debacle.
                      She says home ownership figures being at their lowest since 1951 mean the problem has to move past political point scoring.


                    • North

                      No reply button to your comment to mine below ending “…..that’s not what I am saying right?”.

                      I accept that Weka. Would actually add you to the CV and Marty M list.

                      Just doing a spray on arseholes who couldn’t really give a fuck about racism. ‘Day Trippers’ so to speak.

                    • weka

                      “That’s a false dichotomy in respect of sovereignty versus the economy – that’s kind of the point.”

                      How so? Labour aren’t talking about sovereignty as far as I can tell. Parker said Labour policy had changed for economic reasons. This means that in the future if economic reasons dictate that we’re better off with foreign investment then that’s what Labour will do. Core principles.

                    • weka

                      cheers North.

                    • onya North – I enjoy your posts – kia kaha

                • greywarshark

                  The problem is that people can’t look at what facts we have dispassionately and analyse them without an emotional reaction that gets in the way of reasoned thinking. And that’s not racist, it’s a fact.
                  And the odd comments against Paul just reveal your inadequate capacity for critical thinking.

                  • Nessalt

                    that’s the problem here. phil twyford showed no dispassion or analytical reason. just saw a preponderance of chinese names and leapt for the easy headline. as you’ll see somewhere in my response to mickey, the comment seems to dissappear, i just critically smashed the yellow peril argument out of the park with a few well chosen points.

                    you can’t just say things are fact, especially when you don’t know that they are. basing an opinion of a list of surnames gives everyone cause for doubt about validity. well, anyone who can think critically and not blindly toe the party line

                    • McFlock

                      yep, you sure blew that straw man out of the water. /sarc

                    • Nessalt

                      what straw man argument? care to refute any of the points?

                      your unceasing positivity must really endear you to your fellow humans. /sarc

                      you’re the guy in the corner at work parties who mumbles into his drink before making some out of context random remark a little to loudly aren’t you?

                    • McFlock

                      Nobody has made a (to quote you) “yellow peril” argument.

                    • Nessalt



                      only 60,100 results on google for Early NZ Yellow peril, but the similarities start to build with two hits.

                      know we’ve established that it’s not a straw man argument, got anything else McFlock? a few doozies from your selection of woman-in-her-place jokes?

                      [Any more use of that racist term and you’re gone. TRP]

                    • McFlock

                      I know the term. It has nothing to do with Twyford or Little or the media releases and debate over the last few days. Labour did not make anything close to that argument, let alone in those terms.

                      Pretending that you “smashed the yellow peril argument out of the park with a few well chosen points” when nobody made that argument is indeed a Straw man argument:

                      A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      phil twyford showed no dispassion or analytical reason. just saw a preponderance of chinese names and leapt for the easy headline.

                      No moron, that’s not what he did. He had the data available analysed and reported it’s findings. For doing this he got called racist by the broad spectrum of people from those on the Left doing an all out emotional reaction and not listyening to reason to the morally and ethically challenged RWJNs.

                      i just critically smashed the yellow peril argument out of the park with a few well chosen points.

                      There has been no ‘yellow peril’ argument put forward by anybody except you.

                      you can’t just say things are fact, especially when you don’t know that they are.

                      Right, so now you’re calling people liars without any basis.

                      basing an opinion of a list of surnames gives everyone cause for doubt about validity.

                      No it doesn’t. The methodology has been explained and it makes sense. Sure, it’s not going to be 100% perfect but it does show trends – trends that we need to react to via legislation.

                      well, anyone who can think critically and not blindly toe the party line

                      There’s only one group reacting blindly and that’s the group reacting emotionally and it includes you.

                • Thom Pietersen

                  Foreigners – Yes, not ethnic races. Non sovereign purchasers of land. Using nationally recognised names as a basis V known resident numbers and probable purchase numbers. Racist, racist, racist…

                  The names were a statistical input. Just like most judges in the Maori land courts had English sounding names when we decided to take over the whole of the Waikato because the young night watchman got done in.

                  I’m so fucking offended!

          • dukeofurl

            Thats what people who have never been in government say- principles come first

            The Wellington mayor could tell you about a few rats she had to swallow

    • leftie 4.2


      A rightie who pretended to be left. Quin should have joined the National Party.

  5. Sabine 5

    Who is Phil Quin?

    Have never heard of him?

  6. Tracey 6


  7. John Williams 7

    I’m surprised that Quin was still a member. He’s been acting in a very deleterious pin-head manner for years.

    Even one of Labour’s most strident critics, Trotter, doesn’t believe it’s racist.

    What surprises me about the likes of Quin, Viper, et al is they clearly don’t mind those who don’t have an unending funding stream shut out of owning a house in Auckland for ever!

    Already house ownership in NZ is the lowest since 1951!

    • Tracey 7.1

      please list you practical steps to turn it around

      • Stuart Munro 7.1.1

        1 Ban foreign ownership of all NZ land.
        2 Set up a reacquisition process – say 5 years notice then state acquires at 80% of GV
        3 Commence a state building program concentrating on small units with 1-2 bedrooms. These should be transitional housing and should in many instances be apartments.
        4 Progressively tax local multiple property ownership. rate steps at 5,10,20,50 & 100 properties. Fixed term exemptions for builders – 2 years from foundations
        5 Introduce a rebate on income tax for non property owners.
        6 Create a pharmac-type state building materials supplier to compete with the current monopolies.
        7 Create a cloud sourced free archive of pre-approved housing plans.
        8 Waive or depreciate student loans on building trades education.

        9 add other ideas to this list.

        • Clemgeopin


          Some good thinking there. Worth considering some of those.

          I too have a few other ideas…but I will not publicise them here for now because the clueless National Party crooks will simply copy and plagiarise them like they have done with a lot of previous Labour government’s policies!

          Instead, I will email my proposals direct to the Labour party for consideration.

        • Colonial Viper

          Nice Stuart Munro – the beginning outlines of an actual comprehensive POLICY PROGRAMME to deal with the lack of affordable housing in Auckland (and the rest of NZ). Not just a two dimensional magic bullet approach which our pollies seem to love.

          • Stuart Munro

            Well if I can do that off the top of my head, perhaps the policy resources of Labour and the believe-you-me really concerned communities of Auckland can come up with an integrated program that will:
            1 fix the problem
            2 drive these treacherous and ineffectual scoundrels pretending to be a
            government into the sea (or carbon-positive recycling facility).

    • weka 7.2

      “What surprises me about the likes of Quin, Viper, et al is they clearly don’t mind those who don’t have an unending funding stream shut out of owning a house in Auckland for ever!”

      I don’t know about Quin, but if you think that’s what Colonial Viper has been saying then you are a highly advanced idiot. Go read what he actually says instead of making shit up.

  8. Phil Quin had been in the Labour Party again? Oh well, I guess he can get back to his barbecues and caucus coups now. Oh, and his writing, his writing that lots of people read on his blog. Phil Quin. Man, a resignation letter. From such a principled guy who had so much to offer the party. Phil Quin.

    • Stuart Munro 8.1

      Yes, a tragic loss to Labour – right up there with Stringer’s loss to the CCCP.
      We might even call him ‘a second Stringer’.

  9. Shona 9

    Yeah nah. No dog whistle . And who cares anyway ? The Foreigners fucking over our casino economy are fearsomely racist in their attitudes to us. They see us as stupid and lazy and say so in their media . So fuck em! We haven’t had the nous to protect our economic sovereignty we deserve the present situation.Irrespective of how ugly it gets. Too late now for moral high ground. This pathetic political correctness has us hoisted on our own petard.

    • Roflcopter 9.1

      Hmmm… where do they say that? Cite?

      And since when has it been racist to call someone stupid and lazy?

    • ankerawshark 9.2

      Shona 100+++
      There was a quote in the Herald, possibly from the Chinese News in NZ website, but don’t quote me on that saying we are lazy and spend $100.00 on beer and that’s why we can’t afford housing..

      • weka 9.2.1

        Ok, so if I can find something in the Herald that’s say misogynistic, can I assume you are too because you come from the same country as the people who publish the Herald?

        • ankerawshark

          Weka@9.2.1. I wasn’t making a generalization about the Chinese. I said there was a quote in I think The Herald, that one of the comments from someone who is Chinese made is that the Chinese work hard so deserve to own property and (I guess Pakeha NZders are lazy, beer drinking and that’s why they can’t afford housing.

          I have yet to read anybody putting down the Chinese. All we are saying is it looks very strongly like a significant amount of Ak’s real estate is being bought by People who had a Chinese name and when we control statistically for how likely those with a particular Chinese name are Chinese, then it looks like 39% of the house purchasers are Chinese, when they are only 9% of the population.

          We use statistics all the time. Some a very detailed statistics, some are perhaps not as rigorous. In the absence of rigorous statistics we need to use the best we can get. Especially if it supports lots of anecdotal evidence.

          • weka

            “I wasn’t making a generalization about the Chinese”

            Ok, I’m confused then. I thought you were strongly agreeing with Shona who seems to be saying that because some other people are racist we shouldn’t worry if we are racist also.

            Re stats,

            Do you have a problem with NZ residents/citizens who are Chinese immigrants buying property in Auckland?

            Do you have a problem with NZ residents/citizens who are descendents of Chinese immigrants buying property in Auckland?

            Because I don’t understand why someone being Chinese and buying land in Auckland is worse than someone being American or French or Martian and buying land in Auckland. Or someone being American or English buying land in the South Island (which Labour has promoted and supported in the past btw).

            • ankerawshark

              Hi Weka,

              If I gave the impression that I thought it was o.k. to be racist that was the wrong impression. I saw one comment from a Chinese person re lazy and beer drinking. Thats pretty rude and using a cultural stereo type of NZders. It also implies that only hardworking people deserve to buy a house.
              I have no problem with any resident, Chinese English or whoever buying a house to live in. I don’t like property speculation by anyone, but think it is particularly problematic from overseas speculators, a lot of whom I believe to be Chinese. But it makes no difference to me if they are English, American or from wherever. BTW I was/am very against the Australian trust buying up our state houses.

              I don’t consider myself a racist although I wouldn’t walk around proclaiming that “I am not racist”. That is because of my experience with feminist consciousness raising. That if you live in a paradigm that is sexiest and racist, then don’t take for granted that some of those beliefs don’t seep through unconsciously. I believe it is better to scrutinize and challenge one’s beliefs.
              I like many marched in the Springbox tour. My husband is Maori (I know that doesn’t necessarily mean much). I live in a very multi-cultural neighbourhood, which I value as much as anything because the people here are all great neighbours, good community etc. The diversity is good too
              Actually it is frustrating hurtful to think people may think I am a racist because I support this material coming to light. But it want stop me from speaking out about overseas investors and I am grateful to Phil Tywford for shining a torch on this issue. NO ONE to date has presented any evidence whatsoever that Chinese investors aren’t buying a significant amount of residential property. NO ONE. The evidence might not be perfect, but its good enough for me. You see if we are not open to it then we get into denial…………and this is what has happened over lots of important issues e.g. sexual abuse of children. I won’t be part of a culture of denial.

      • Heartbleeding Liberal 9.2.2

        I have a feeling that this interview was a farce. It read like one.

      • leftie 9.2.3

        Here is the article from the Herald of a Chinese investor who doesn’t live in New Zealand telling Kiwis to stop grumbling and work harder if they want to buy a house in Auckland, and he asks ” Why do you spend $100 on beer when you can save it and spend it on your house one day?”

        Chinese: Kiwis should save harder

        <a href="

        • Thom Pietersen

          Damn straight – we have no right to our culture, and what our forefathers worked for… we need to work like iPhone production leemings forced off their farmland, or have the nuance to fiddle away windfall money. Stuff you racist!

          • leftie

            @Thom Pietersen

            Yep, I became extremely angry too when I read that article in the Herald.

  10. Ad 10

    Front page of the NZHerald Sir Don McKinnon gets it.
    You don’t have to like him, but he knows this is damaging our reputation in China.

    Big picture: if Labour want to shut out foreign house-buying capital, expect pretty serious international blowback, both from investors and at diplomatic level.

    • Paul 10.1

      No it’s a threat.
      As one commentator put it ‘Translated – We have to be careful we don’t upset a major trading partner! Our Sovereignty be damned!’

      Like the Greeks, we simply have to suck it up to the big guys. We are not allowed to have democratic rights.

      • Ad 10.1.1

        So Labour’s armchair real estate warriors may not need to quake, but they do need to accept they are small, with little influence, unlikely to win, and risk of making things worse.

        • Paul

          That sounds might defeatist of you.
          No doubt you also think we should sign the TPP.

        • Draco T Bastard

          What would you say if the point was put to referendum and the peoples decision was to ban foreign ownership and investment altogether?

    • Tracey 10.2

      is china offended by all the other nations who have restrictions and taxes on foreign ownership or just us? do they trade with aussie… uk… usa or canada?

    • John Williams 10.3

      Bollocks!! Hasn’t stopped Australian, British, Canadian investment!

      • Ad 10.3.1

        Labour has not framed Australian, British, or Canadian investment.

        • McFlock

          Because the naming methodology doesn’t have >90% consistency for those demographic groups.

          • Colonial Viper

            Yes, highlighting foreign sounding names is more reliable. But Labour should have broadened its rhetoric to include all offshore buyers of NZ land. It didn’t.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.4

      if Labour want to shut out foreign house-buying capital, expect pretty serious international blowback, both from investors and at diplomatic level.

      Our sovereignty isn’t a concern of those outside of NZ. It is to NZers.

    • vaughan little 10.5

      not true about the damaged reputation thing.

      the 9% of AKL chinesisch citizens from the get go were bracketed off as being not part of the problem, by definition.

      i actually disagree with Labour on this, because it’s precisely recent migrants (a small percentage of the 9%) who are best placed to exploit local knowledge in channeling hot money into the economy. so a small part of the 9% will likely be punching above their weight when it comes to damaging the local economy. as has been said, that’s not their fault because it’s all legal and they’re doing what’s good for them. the fault is with NZ’s lawmakers, and they need to step up and change the law.

      but that’s beside the point. labour from the start were saying there are two groups of chinese in the property market, one group is just fine, one group is not. you can’t be clearer than that, and anyone seeing racism is simply ignoring labour’s methodology.

      • Roflcopter 10.5.1

        Oh, so because they weren’t focusing on ALL Chinese, they’re only mildly racist?

      • Sacha 10.5.2

        “labour from the start were saying there are two groups of chinese in the property market, one group is just fine, one group is not. ”

        Go back and listen to Twyford’s own words. That is simply not what he actually said. Sweet that you would like it to be true, but honestly why do you think so many people across the political spectrum are reacting like this?

    • vaughan little 10.6

      “china’s watching you”. thanks for your input, don, but we’re a democracy and we’ll move ahead with public debate.

    • SPC 10.7

      Oz got a better trade deal than we did and they have restrictions on foreign ownership.

    • North 10.8

      So we’re already fucked are we Ad ? We have only one choice do we ? We just lie down and say “Anyone else ?”, do we ?

      If what you say has any attachment to reality then the dangers of unlimited cheap foreign money, are palpable. Only the already rich will have the “Brighter Future”.

      You like that Ad ?

  11. dukeofurl 11

    “Phil Quin had been in the Labour Party again? ”

    The only readers of his blog was the beehive drones who feed Slater and Farrar

  12. shorts 12

    the issue and point Labour misses with their entire tactic is these Chinese or wherever they are from people aren’t doing anything wrong…. these speculators and investors are 100% within their legal rights in NZ and therein lies the problem – its not a (PRC) Chinese problem its a kiwi problem!

    The labour leadership would be better off saying lets stop being bloody idiots and tighten up our laws to stop foriengers buying everything that is and isn’t nailed down in our country. Instead they’ve insulted a lot of people which seems silly given the popularist nature of modern day politics

    • Tracey 12.1

      they have been saying your second paragraph but 49% just nod to this govt.

      • shorts 12.1.1

        I get that, its the Chinese part that wasn’t needed that someone decided would be a good strategy that has and will continue to see labour MPs siting on the opposition benches checking their property portfolios

        I expect little but corruption from National – from Labour I demand more than mishandling

        • Tracey

          neighbours just sold a run down villa on 900m2 section. hard to subdivide cos front house cant be moved or demolished and driveway is too narrow to meet regs.



          • Visubversaviper

            It is not hard to get approval to demolish a pre-1944 house. All you need to do is to show that it is not worthy of scheduling – not a speicial example of its type and no-one important lived there. It protects the realy good stuff but not run of the mill type villas.

            The developer would have know that.

            • Tracey

              so they can apply to have the current situation revoked?

              • Visubversa

                No, if it is the pre-1944 overlay, they apply to remove or demolish the villa. Restricted Discretionary under the Unitary Plan. Unless the villa is really special, consent is likely to be granted.

          • RedLogix

            OK … I’m in Auckland right now visiting my father. He lives in a small street with just 22 houses. Him and the neighbour are the last two non-Asian owners left.

            Knock on door just after dinner tonight. Asian agent offering three times the QV for the place. Explained their buyers want to get in before the door is closed. Didn’t really care how much they paid – the more the better it seemed.

            This is insane.

            • mickysavage

              Which suburb?

              • RedLogix

                Epsom of course.

                I should add that I more or less played him a bit. My dad doesn’t want to sell on any terms right now, and I strongly suspected this agent was playing a ‘bait and switch’ scam himself.

                So on reflection I don’t think his offers were real, but nor are they being made in a total vacuum either.

                My father was pretty wound up about it.

            • Anne

              Insanity is the new sanity Redlogix. And be careful about repeating personal experiences here because you are likely to raise the ire of the trolling brigade. Anecdotal evidence is depicted as hallucinating at best… vile racism at worst.

              In light of the huge publicity you would think they might lie low for a while. You should have played along with him/her and requested a card. It might have been useful to see what transpired – maybe evidence for further down the track.

              • my god – lie low – maybe we need an underground railway just in case a labour supporter is out there jotting number plates down for The Man

    • tinfoilhat 12.2

      yep – pretty much.

      Instead as is the usual case Labour have shown themselves to be at best political incompetents and at worst dog-whistling xenophobes/bigots.

      • Tracey 12.2.1

        what? ALL those countries restrict foreign property purchase and yet china still trades with them..

        • alwyn

          There was a New Zealand expatriate, living in China, who was interviewed on what the Chinese reaction would be. It was on this morning’s “Morning Report”.

          His basic point was that the Chinese wouldn’t have the slightest difficulty with restrictions on foreign residents, or even immigrants having restrictions placed on their being able to buy property.
          The problem was that a major political party was singling out Chinese specifically and it was that fact that would be seen as racist, and offensive.

          • Tracey

            well when do we expect trade and tourism to begin dropping cos of this?

            i remember when shipley oppressed freedom of movement/protest to save chinese sensibilities…

          • Thom Pietersen

            We have to be honest – there is a save face thing in national Chinese culture – and I will get slammed for this, but I would put it alongside westerners paternalistic tendencies, funnily enough demonstrated here…

    • Colonial Viper 12.3

      Yes, the Auckland housing bubble is a serious problem which the NZ leadership class has let expand since 2001/2002.

      • Tracey 12.3.1

        the last time auckland central property prices went backwards was after the 87 crash… but they bounce back quickly.

        • Macro

          Actually there was a dip in the market around 2000 – prices went down for a while, before lifting again in 2002-3. The office I was in in Green Bay listed 1 house in 3 months! There was nothing selling – and no vendors. It wasn’t a good time to try one’s had at real estate 🙂

    • McFlock 12.4

      Well, they have been.
      And the tories said that foreign ownership wasn’t really happening all that much. And refused to measure it.

      It’s the child poverty problem all over again, only this time the data isn’t centrally collected let alone publicly available. Tory business as usual.

      So Labour used a metric that was, frankly, as dodgy as fuck (not so much due to the names/frequency matching, just sample bias issues etc). To get the point across that the only metric even vaguely available at least provides an indication that the problem of overseas/non-resident speculation exists an inflates the Auckland market.

      So the steps need to be*:
      a) demonstrate a problem probably exists;
      b) get an accurate measure of the problem (registered NZ-non-resident dwelling owners);
      c) if the measure demonstrates the existence of a significant problem, solve it.

      *well, for those of use who need real-world data because we can’t read the matrix as it flows by, anyway

      • Tracey 12.4.1

        and why wouldnt they want to measure it…

        • McFlock

          If you close your eyes and then insist you can’t see anything bad, people are just discriminating against the blind if they call you a liar.

        • keyman

          real estate agents are make a killing land owning Epsom torries are making a killing and if the money flow from china stops house prices have a major correction back to a level this economy can pay for on new Zealand incomes. government doesn’t want know !

          • Tracey

            Peter Thompson being all contrary about this data…. this Nat Party donor has 500 Chinese agents on his books and specifically tells people if they want a high price then use B & T cos of the number of its agents in China or with Chinese mainland contacts…

            He is making shitloads off this particular market an is specifically promoting it. I know cos last year after we took our house off the market I got his letter telling me to use their Chinese connections to get the highest price..

  13. tinfoilhat 13

    @CV I know you are trying to fight the good fight from within Labour, but as I have said before we would welcome your energy and passion with open arms in the Green movement.

  14. Shona 14

    Yeah? Well trading insults is start.

  15. Paul 15

    Chris Trotter.

    ‘China now stands where Britain stood: an economic colossus with expectations of this country that New Zealanders are only reluctantly beginning to comprehend. The thought that the Chinese might want something in return for opening up their market to our milk powder and baby formula has come very late to the ordinary Kiwi.

    That Labour is leading the discussion about how much, precisely, the Chinese have a right to expect from New Zealanders is entirely fitting. After all, it was Labour who sealed the deal. It was Labour, too, who presided over the electorally unmandated “turn” towards Asia in the late-80s. That they are, at last, addressing the misgivings expressed to me by Sonja Davies’ all those years ago, is to be applauded – not condemned.

    Labour’s Chinese whispers have nothing to do with racism. They’re about national sovereignty and the people’s will.’

    • weka 15.1

      oh ffs. We’re not talking about China. We’re talking about people who bought houses in Auckland who have names that sound Chinese. Can you honestly not tell the difference?

      • Galeandra 15.1.1

        oh ffs. We’re talking about China. We’re talking about people with capital from China who bought houses in Auckland but no one will tells us how many so we assayed lists of buyers and counted the names that sound Chinese. Can you honestly not tell the difference?

        • weka

          Yeah, I can tell the difference, that’s the point. You obviously didn’t understand what I just said. We (the people talking about racism), are talking about how Chinese people were targeted. That’s not about China. I assume you understand that there people in NZ who are Chinese or of Chinese descent who don’t actually live in China right?

          • McFlock

            A significant sector of the resident population appears to be purchasing houses at something like six times the rate of equivalent sectors.

            Would there at least be some basis for examining why that might be, and measuring likely factors involved in that situation, or even whether it’s a measurable difference within the resident population as opposed to the vagaries of global economics?

            • weka

              Yes. But not the way Labour tried to do it.

              • McFlock

                All Labour did was establish the first sentence, because that’s all that the available data was capable of.

                Frankly, I’d be impressed if anyone could explain how a domestic population segment could purchase houses at six times the rate of everyone else when that population’s national median income is significantly less than the majority of the population when mortgage numbers are static or falling. There seems to be a mismatch in the inputs.

                A register of overseas dwelling ownership is the logical next step in figuring out what’s going on.

                • weka

                  Can you please explain to me why the words China and Chinese needed to be used in this press release?


                  • McFlock

                    To link it with the current media reports and debate on the recent research.

                  • mickysavage

                    Weka believe me I have a pretty good idea of what is happening in Auckland. There is a tidal wave of investment coming in from overseas. Local people cannot do anything about it. Either we put restrictions on or we give up on the notion that our society should have an expectation that ordinary people can own their own home.

                    • If chinesesoundingnamed persons never bought another property in auckland would the problem be fixed?

                    • lprent []

                      You mean a non-resident one?

                      Nope, but I suspect that the rate of increase in housing prices in Auckland would drop to close to zero like it usually does after our usual 2-3 year housing craziness. There would still remain the problem of having a surplus of some kinds of housing in some areas and an acute shortage of other types in many areas.

                      There is a lot of housing tied up with people who have pretty well paid off their housing but can’t find any suitable housing to move to. So they are staying put. And this isn’t just older people. A large chunk of the mid-40s are like that these days. Paradoxically having the type of bull housing market we have at present in Auckland doesn’t mean that people get what they need, they get what the developers think that they can get the most profit from. That is the mansions (good for asset values for overseas investors) or micro bedroom apartments and townhouses that give the highest rental yields.

                    • weka

                      “Weka believe me I have a pretty good idea of what is happening in Auckland. There is a tidal wave of investment coming in from overseas. Local people cannot do anything about it. Either we put restrictions on or we give up on the notion that our society should have an expectation that ordinary people can own their own home.”

                      Right. So do you understand that I’m not against the issue being raised and addressed? (the issue being overseas money, not the Chinese). That in fact I want restrictions put in place, far more than what Labour are talking about. I want a ban on overseas ownership unless there is a bloody good cultural or environmental reason (fuck the economic reasons). I want to see our immigration policy changed so that cultural reasons become more important than economic ones (imagine if we’d spent the last 30 years prioritising cultural immigration from China rather than economic immigration).

                      I mean, I live in the country and I have a pretty good idea of what’s happening in the bottom half of the South Island with rural land. It’s the same story. Overseas money whether from immigration or overseas investment is outcompeting locals. Locals can’t do anything about it. This isn’t new. Successive governments (National and Labour) have been supporting and promoting this situation. I read that thing earlier about Labour’s history and like you I remember when we were told we were part of Asia etc. FFS, some of us have been against foreign ownership for decades.

                      I just don’t get why it’s so hard to understand that focusing on the Chinese is very problematic, although it’s just occured to me that Labour could be unaware of the long standing problems elsewhere in the country that overseas money has created.

                      Let me put it another way. The problem isn’t the Chinese. It’s the governance of NZ. I’d have a bit more sympathy for Labour if I saw them doing a genuine mea culpa (and throwing in an apology for Rogernomics while they’re at it), instead of what looks to me like an attempt at protecting investor class assets.


                  • adam

                    Weka I feel I need to do a public service and link to what bill said to me the other day.

                    China Crisis

                    There is a real disconnect and twisting of the view point that the twit Tywford chose to put him comments in racial terms, and as a left wing person, I find that repulsive. I don’t know why we are being blasted for saying that – it’s probably a lot of things. But, when they cool down in maybe a week or so – sane heads may see what we are trying to say, does not at any level diminish the need to look for, and offer solutions to, the housing crisis in this country.

                    A crisis which extends from social housing to rights for people renting. To many of us being serf like tenants. As the ranting has got a little less vitriolic in the last day or so, and I hope people will get down to the business of extending the debate.

                • weka

                  supplementary question. What would you want to see happen if there are signicant numbers of Chinese NZers buying housing in Auckland? (ie significantly above the 9% population).

                  • McFlock

                    I’d probably want to look at it in the same way we look for reasons why groups are over- or under-represented in other areas. Why are men over-represented on boards of directors. Why are Maori over-represented in prison. Do more rich kids go on to tertiary education (incl polytech) than poor. Why do European kids have more gromment surgeries up to the age of 5, when Maori and Polynesian kids massively outstrip European…

                    and many more.

                    As a general rule, I ask first whether there is a real, measurable difference. If so, what factors are at play other than the demographic cut in question- is ethnicity simply a proxy for poverty or something. Does the disparity really matter. Does it require specific interventions, research, or will it solve itself as macro policies have an indirect impact on the cause of the disparity.

                    • weka

                      I think that sidesteps what I was asking. Which is, what happens if we find out it’s NZers that are part of the problem, (who happen to be Chinese or Chinese descent)? Shall we start kicking them out? Auditing them to see where their money is coming from?

                      Much of my argument comes from the fact that I’ve seen this shit for years in the South Island, only it’s mainly the English and US immigrants that have been the problem. I don’t see anyone race profiling them though.

                    • lprent []

                      Yes it has happened forever. In Auckland we get these bumps when we either have a big bump in immigration numbers or the construction industry focuses on commercial for too long.

                      BTW: That includes internal immigration. I suspect the 2011 kickoff of the current price ramp was triggered by the influx of people from Christchurch post-quake, and then continued by investment speculation from offshore money.

                    • McFlock

                      Ok then: let’s assume that all of the criteria I mentioned have been met: that there is a measurable and significant difference in landlording amongs NZers of Chinese descent, and the trading activity is escalating housing prices beyond affordability of most people, and we know all the wheres and whyfors as to what’s going on, no research required.

                      That means that either the purchasers are leveraging off their properties (well, mortgages are static, so this is definitely fantasy land) or they are buying with cash. One can be controlled with financial market regulations on the level to which properties can be levied by investors. Ther other can be controlled by either progressive capital gains taxes or a variety of other measures.

                      Or, maybe, this hypothetical situation is not the result of unfair advantage given to capital, but some factor that means a small cluster of people use their money better (not even a directly ethnic cluster as such, just a confounding factor), so buy more properties. Maybe rather than restricting the traders, we learn from them to improve everyone else’s skills.

                      The point is that there’s no ethnically-based response, because it’s not an ethnically-based situation. It’s a situation that happens to be currently skewed towards one identifiable ethnicity because of the global economy. But this skewing strongly indicates that the nats claim of 1% is bullshit.

                    • Thom Pietersen

                      Family money, societal disenfranchisement, and education. No, more no less.

          • Galeandra

            Yeah, I do understand as my sister is one, cept she now lives in Oz. Mean time I regard expressions like ffs as tantamount to yelling at people. in reply to above

        • Paul

          Can’t believe how all these people are desperately trying to make this a race issue, as opposed to a sovereignty issue.
          Maybe they just want to close down a vital debate.

          • Anne

            Because that was the perception they chose to make when the story broke over the week-end. Together with the Clayton’s celebrity mob (eg. Bryce Edwards, who stick their finger in the air and go wherever the media flow takes them) they now have to justify their stance. That usually means refusing to read all the evidence available including those of us WHO ACTUALLY LIVE IN AUCKLAND and have seen and experienced the overwhelming evidence.

            • marty mars

              Little and twyford knew the potential for blowback but they considered the cost acceptable. The cost is the debate and perception raised – totally foreseeable and forseen. So what’s the problem? That they ham-fisted it? That they underestimated the blowback? That by framing the issue the way they did they distracted from the real point that they could have made? That they point they are making is childish in it’s simplicity and understanding of the issues relating to overheated property markets?

              So when you go to your next auction you’ll be bad-mouthing any asian looking person will you? – yeah that will fix the problem.

              • lprent

                That they point they are making is childish in it’s simplicity and understanding of the issues relating to overheated property markets?

                Please consider that in my view you just described yourself in that statement? I really suspect that you underestimate exactly how pissed off a lot of Aucklanders are getting over this debacle of a market here.

                Sure there is a building shortage – mainly because those National/Act idiots in Wellington keep getting in the frigging way with silliness like their mandated Auckland supershitty that took years out of the build cycle.

                But we’re way past that now. The prices are responding to silly money chasing the rewards from two years ago.

                • weka

                  I suspect that Aucklanders also underestimate how many people outside of Auckland are rolling their eyes a bit and going, yeah, we know. It’s not like this issue hasn’t been going on in NZ for a long time, not just Auckland.

                  (plus there’s the issue of Aucklanders coming south with their big bucks and raising house and land prices that way)

                  • lprent

                    Oh I know that is happening. But house prices seldom go as crazy downcountry as they do up here. The exodus is real as well.

                    My parents for instance when they retired. Why live around Auckland when they could realise the assets and live in Rotorua a lot cheaper.

                    But you notice that it has largely stopped now? The people remaining in Auckland are those who are here for the work and/or the lifestyles and/or family.

                    That is why the house prices down country have slowed right down.

                    I’d love to live on a hill in Dunedin, or up in Central, or any number of places.

                    However I’m addicted to programming, and these days the most interesting area for me is with writing code for specialised vertical market hardware. There are hundreds of firms doing that here, and probably less than a hundred through the rest of the country. Organisations cluster around each other and their common support infrastructure companies.

                    Lyn is the same. She does documentaries and works at the uni doing that and media as well. In NZ, the facilities and the people for that are up here.

                    Both of us need international airports close because of the supply chains and the markets.

                    When we retire, ie if Lyn retires before I drop dead – she is 16 years younger than I am and I already had a myrocardial infraction, then you can probably expect us to move down country. Maybe back to her home town in Invercargill, or her well remembered town of Dunedin.

                • “I really suspect that you underestimate exactly how pissed off a lot of Aucklanders are getting over this debacle of a market here.”

                  No I get it thanks. Labour have read the tea-leaves and will get exactly what they deserve… meanwhile the problem will continue to the next part of the cycle as it always does.

                  • lprent

                    mm: Possibly. We’ll have to wait for the next part of the cycle.

                    However in the meantime there is this structural problem in Auckland that needs solving. Like many others up here, I couldn’t really give damn who solves it. I just want it to stop getting so much worse.

              • Thom Pietersen

                They already are Marty – is that not a problem? It’ll only get worse, people tend to devolve into tribalism when under attack.

                I’m going to sit in an ivory tower and bleat pious platitudes.

                • “I’m going to sit in an ivory tower and bleat pious platitudes.”

                  Don’t do it Thom – fight racism it is so corrosive your world will disintegrate in front of your eyes if you don’t – stand up, be brave.

          • marty mars

            YOU are the one trying to close the debate down – own it ffs

      • Paul 15.1.2

        So you disagree with Chris Trotter?

        • weka

          I disagree where he says there is no racism. And I’m not convinced that Labour are mending their ways to make up for what they’ve done in the past. That’s just going off the bit you quoted, I haven’t read the whole article.

      • Amanda Atkinson 15.1.3

        Don’t worry Weka, Paul thinks it’s all ACT’s fault this debate. Apparently you Weka, and anyone else who think the race card has been played, have been hood winked by ACT. Me, I think Twyford has an excellent, sensible, logical policy to help Auckland housing. Dial down demand by banning foreigners from buying existing houses, and dialing up supply by encouraging all investors foreign and domestic to build new houses, not by existing ones, makes complete sense. There is not 1 single benefit to NZ in a foreigner buying an existing house here. It’s just a real shame that his good ideas are being lost in this race debate. Bad move Phil.

        • weka

          I can tell you I have no idea what ACT have been doing on this issue, other than a few comments here saying that they’re using the racism thing against Labour.

          If a foreign investor builds a new house in NZ do they own it? How about the land it’s on?

  16. Tracey 16

    hmm trade and diplomatic problems…

    does china trade with usa or aussie… or uk… or canada cos they all restrict or tax foreign property buyers…

  17. Mark 17

    Well if thats all it took to get rid of that prick, the Labour Party should have done it ages ago. Now if we were really lucky Josie might join her good friend. That would be the icing on top.

    • Roflcopter 17.1

      Why don’t you suggest a Labour MP start having a go at the Islanders…. that might do it.

      • Paul 17.1.1

        ‘Labour’s Chinese whispers have nothing to do with racism. They’re about national sovereignty and the people’s will.’

        • Roflcopter

          They could have said that, without mentioning China/Chinese, or any other foreign country…. but they did.

          Twyford, Little, Parker… playing the unbecoming race card.

          • Paul

            Do you think non-doms should be allowed to own houses in NZ?
            What did you think of Trotter’s article?


            • weka

              Paul can you please link to something where Labour talks about sovereignty and the people’s will?

              • Paul

                Did you read Trotter’s article?
                That did.

                • weka

                  I’ve read it now and I can’t see anything that quotes Labour talking about sovereignty and the people’s will. Can you please cut and paste the bit you think is relevant?

              • weka

                ‘Non-doms’? Who came up with that term? I have family living overseas who are NZ citizens. Are you suggesting that they shouldn’t be allowed to own land here?

          • Shona

            China is the problem. The data released by Twyford shows that. Whose paying you to troll anyway? Roflcopter ( so passe)This issue is way overdue to be dealt with. Hence the smearing of LAbour over the proposed CGT at the last election farce. National’s paymasters don’t want that. Our dollar would drop without the Chinese speculators( by far the biggest group in terms of numbers of buyers of domestic housing in Auckland ; admittedly foreign corporations spend larger sums on agricultural investment properties)The government has to do what it’s foreign backers tell it to do. We are the same as Greece . We have been sold down the river by our government.And Key is the most corrupt leader we have ever had. Kiwis are stupid, greedy drongos. We deserve everything that is happening to us. And it is going to get much much worse.

            • Colonial Viper

              China is the problem. The data released by Twyford shows that.

              Interesting. Was China the problem between 2001 and 2007 when Auckland house prices climbed from $300K to $600K, or has China only become a problem now that Auckland house prices are up over $800K?

              I agree that hot money flows out of China (and other countries) need to be clamped down on hard. But both the last Labour Govt and this National Govt let the property bubble grow and grow.

              • McFlock

                If we’d kept decent stats of foreign ownership, you could have an answer as to whether 2001-07 increases were due to China, US, Aust, or domestic speculation.

                But we didn’t so you can’t.

              • lprent

                Possibly when Auckland prices climbed by an average 26% in a single year?

                NRT: This is wrong

                Looking at the forecast for the coming year, it looks to me like we will either get more than that again (or have a bust). Over this last couple of years, I have been looking for a new apartment. Initially there weren’t any available of the right types. But now there are a lot being built around where we live and want to buy. The supply situation after 5 years of nothing at all is starting to ease as finally the building gears up.

                But we’ve been unable to find anything even vaguely in our price range. They start at $800k and go up for places that are actually worse than my current apartment (that I brought for $170k in 1997). While we have good incomes, they aren’t good enough to pay more than thousand dollars a week for something that is 20 sq metres larger.

                The auctions we’ve attended recently have all been won by the people on the phones – ie agents. The people at the banks say the money isn’t coming from them. There is clearly a *lot* of overseas investment money coming in. At least Labour has identified a probable source.

                Aucklanders have been used to rising house prices for a long time. I’d have to calculate that 2001-2007 (BTW: where is the link?) average, but that looks less than 10% on an annual basis (because of the compounding effects). The difference between slow rises in prices and bloody rapidly increasing spikes is considerable.

                Perhaps you’d like to pull your head out of your high indignation rascist taunting arse and start to deal with the issues everyone up here is having to live with. Perhaps being one of the people down country allows you the luxury of acting that way. But Aucklanders don’t. The costs are too high.

                BTW: I’d point out that on my observation that the vast majority of the people who are waxing indignant about this on this site appear to me to be not living in Auckland. The noisiest and most indignant (like Phil Quinn) are certainly not currently Aucklanders.

                • Karen

                  Here is a graph showing CPI adjusted median house prices in Auckland from 1992 to 2013. I was looking from one that went from 1980 but need more time for that.

                  I live in Auckland. I bought a one bedroom cottage in 1980 for $25,000. Two years later the cottage next door, which was the same size, sold for $44,000, so rapid increases in house properties in Auckland are not new, and there was no overseas speculation in the early 1980s.

                  I do think there is a problem with overseas based property investment but I think there are a number of reasons that house properties in Auckland are increasing rapidly, including local speculators and land banking.

                  My problem with what Twyford and Salmond did is that racial profiling based on names was bound to be seen as an attack on Chinese generally, including long term residents. The research itself was less of a problem than the framing.

                  • vaughan little

                    9% vs 39%. if it were racial profiling they would have cast all 39% as illegitimate. but they didn’t. get some nuance.

                    • Karen

                      It is racial profiling because it focusses on names that that indicate a high probability of Chinese ethnicity.

                  • lprent

                    Useful graph. I’d point out that there have been a further 20 months of growth in the high 20% range. That has happened when there was no significiant inflation – unlike the 1980s when our current annual inflation was the common monthly inflation rate.

                    When these kinds of really rapid pushes have happened in the past excluding inflation (including in the 1980s) they lasted for quite short periods – typically about 2 years before they stalled. That was because they would hit the limits of what people could afford to pay from their income.

                    ~46 months without a letup is somewhat extreme. Especially when there hasn’t been virtually any increases in income. And the higher density supply situation is starting to get dealt with in the central city. But I swear that the price velocity is actually increasing in our preferred type of property even as the supply gets better.

                    Stats has always had a problem with people attacking the techniques without bothering to check its accuracy.

                    I’ve used the name frequency based systems for estimating canvassing for Labour. For both gender (because so many people don’t put Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms on the rolls or have Dr, Prof etc), ethnicity, family style, and a whole pile of other guesses. There are known issues with accuracy. But it is always >90% and usually >95% accurate for most parts of Auckland for a number of ‘ethnic’ (actually regional name) groups. And that is with the levels of intermingling of names that happens between families of our citizens and residents.

                    BTW: The gender accuracy is even higher when you use the whole of NZ to do the calculating on first names. My first name being an obvious example. There were about 5 male Lynns known in NZ the last time I looked.

                    I welcome this to the debate because I’ve been getting increasing pissed off with trying to find a new apartment. To the point where you may find The Standard coming to you from my front room in Aussie or the US or even China where there is interesting work (essentially there is none in the rest of NZ for me) and affordable housing of the size that the two of us now need.

                    Trying to buy a new place with our costs jumping from ~$1500/mo to ~$4000/mo and increasing at about 26% per year just isn’t worth the effort of staying here for.

                    • Karen

                      You are right about much higher inflation in the 1980s – I’d forgotten about that.

                      Not sure you will find Australia any better – Australian cities are having the same problems in spite of having a CGT and non-residents having to do new builds. My understanding about Sydney and Melbourne is that houses and apartment blocks are being built by non residents, but many are being left empty because renting is too much of a hassle. They are relying on a a capital gain because of the housing bubble.

                      I’d love to know how many properties in Auckland are empty .

                    • lprent []

                      I’d love to know how many properties in Auckland are empty .

                      So would I. Anecdote says quite a lot based on quite a few people over the last year telling me about ones close to them. However there really isn’t anyway to tell.

                      With Aussie, The two big cities are over 4 million.

                      But ….
                      Brisbane 2.0 million
                      Perth 1.8 millon
                      Adelaide 1.3 million

                      Auckland 1.4 million.

                      There are jobs in all of those places and 3 bdm median house prices in Adelaide are a leisurely AUD 400k.

                    • Sacha

                      Cool graph here too, showing the influence of non-local finance over time:

                      [lprent: Wow that is telling. You can see when the investment money pours in, and it isn’t from the banks ]

                    • lprent []

                      I have some strong quibbles about this. To be precise, I suspect that it is the number of house that were vacant on the night, but where the people who normally occupy them were elsewhere. I could be quite wrong about this. I was meaning to go back and look it up, but as usual ran out of time.

                      If it is, then it probably doesn’t show the housing that was deliberately vacant.

                      I’d love to know how that data was measured.

                    • Sacha

                      @lprent Impressive graphed data, eh.
                      Believe the other is from an official dataset but cannot recall which.

                    • Thom Pietersen

                      Actually, something I’m hearing more and more me and my suffering are looking to whether we have to go – we’ve missed the boat.

                      Not the country I grew up in.

                • Lindsey

                  I went to a Council Hearing yesterday on a proposal to build an apartment develpment in Kingsland. I don’t mind about most of it, except the 7 level block facing the Res 1 (heritage) street. Apartments starting at $800,000 and up to $1.3mill. No laundry facilities and 6m2 balconies instead of the required 8m2. Parking 4 levels underground.

                  • lprent

                    7 stories in Kingsland. Is that for the residential? 4 levels of parking?

                    Outside of the CBD or town centres (New Lynn for instance) I can’t see a reason for more than 4 levels + 2 of parking dug in.

                    Or 3 level townhouses with parking below. Not that I’d ever live in one of those again – the stairways are just so much dead space.

                    My apartment block has 3 levels residential and 2 parking dug in. Nice 10ft stud, 2 carparks, and in my a case polished concrete floor.

                    It has exactly one problem. 51 square metres of internal living space was fine for me on my own with my office at home habits. It is too small with two of us both with office at home habits.

                    Looking around for large places with 2+ bedrooms in the 70-100 sq metre range, they all seem to have two bathrooms, crazy layouts for clothes and storage, etc etc. In other words a lot of effective space wasted to silly walls designed for rentals to group of 3+ people. Low ceilings because people aren’t meant to live there. They are meant to sleep there.

                    Rabbit hutches.

                    • Sacha

                      “Low ceilings because people aren’t meant to live there. They are meant to sleep there.”

                      That’s worrying. How can councils/governments set building standards to discourage that sort of thing?

                    • Lindsey

                      Yes, up to 7 levels of apartments with a big hole underneath for 4 levels of parking. Old Kiwi Bacon site up the road from me. Mixed use development 317 -319 New North Rd and 20 and 22 Aitken Terrace. Plans on the Council website.

                • Anne

                  What irritates me lprent (@ 2:38) is the fact that the racist taunt you refer to is being used because the culprits happen to Chinese. But what if the ethnicity of the foreign investors had been European – or to be more specific German, Dutch or French. What if they were American or South African with assistance from their respective governments? The problem is the same and would attract the same response from Aucklanders in particular. Would that be framed as racist?

                  • lprent

                    By someone – probably. By so many from such a wide range, probably not.

                    National’s PR line dribblers seem to just see votes used to “the devil you know” to sustain their failing government. Personally I suspect that they and many others are under rating the ability for Auckland’s residents to make up their own mind about who to vote for regardless of the noisy local power brokers and speakers for communities pretensions. Just as Labour has been doing for years.

                    Personally I blame Winston Peters and a whole pile of populist fever running back to the 19th century for the left’s reaction. After having the bigots with their “yellow peril” running around for so long, the left has some reflexive unthinking attitudes of their own. Rather than concentrating on the issue in economic policy terms, outside of Auckland they are reacting to it in reflexive anti-Winston mode.

                    • Anne

                      A reflexive perception without comprehension of the reality of the situation in Auckland. Perhaps we need to swap domiciles with our more southern counterparts for a couple of years. I think the ‘perception’ of many out-of- towners might change.

                    • Thom Pietersen

                      A lot of the left actually like (probably not right, respect) Winston. Why’s that? Is he actually a bigot? May be some of us dislike the ideological left bigotry and the removal of the concentration around hard work and reward, while being fair and just.

              • Macro

                Actually CV Auckland house prices went down around 2000. I know, I was selling real estate then. Some of the early gains around 2003 were the market correcting itself. And yes the market was being influence at that time by foreign investment – namely Korean and South African at that time. The North Shore grew substantially at that time as 50,000 Korean and South Africans flooded into the area.
                The difference here though was that these were actual migrants, bringing money into the country – not the speculative off shore investment that we we are seeing now. I know that it is happening from personal experience, Mickey can tell you it is happening because he see it every day, Red knows that it is happening – his dad just had an offer on his property for 3 times the QV, and those of us who are living here know that it is happening because we see it day by day. And its almost exclusively form one country, with a power of loose change burning holes in investor pockets, and it is very easy to do, and even if the person” buying” the property resides in NZ the actual money behind the deal and the actual purchaser lives off shore and has no intention whatsoever of actually living here. I know it has been happening since 2010 because the people who bought my property in 2010 live and work in China and do not live in NZ, and never have and used a proxy to buy the property.

            • Roflcopter

              The Xenophobia is strong with this one.

            • Tanz

              I did not vote for him and would love to see him voted out. agree, Key is our most corrupt leader ever…yet strangely, the majority luuurve him. Sickening.

      • Mark 17.1.2

        I know you are just an out an out fuckwit but why do you have to confirm it every time you make a post here. What I really want to know is what the tipping point for you fucking off to join another one of your neo liberal wanking mates like Quin on the sidelines. Please tell us, I am up for it

        • Roflcopter

          Awesome reply, did your Mum help you with the spelling?

          • Mark

            Take your hand off your johnson when you are posting otherwise you just come across as a gold plated wanker. I notice how you completely ignored the question. Mind you that is always the way with you fuckwit tory arseholes. You have the gall to come on here and preach about racism when you represent the most vile, degenerate political party in New Zealands history. Ethics and morals provided free of charge by Mike Sabin.

            • Roflcopter

              ooooo… best bit of cut/paste abuse I’ve seen in days. *thumbs up*

              • Mark

                Deflection is your only defence isn’t it fuckwit. Can’t talk about ethics or morals because you don’t have any.The idea that any right wing tosspot like yourself would understand morals or ethics is irony at its best. But here you want to sit on your high horse and preach how terrible we all are.
                Go fuck yourself. The abuse has started yet you fuckhead. There was a time when I just ignored fuckheads like you but not anymore.

                • Roflcopter

                  Sorry, I missed the bit after “wah wah wah”

                  I haven’t said how terrible everyone is…. just the racist ones.

                  Now, go back and check yer meds before you pop a vein or something.

                  • Mark

                    Fuck, you are the real deal wanker. Mommy not changed your nappies today because you appear to be full of shit. You would need someone to do everything for you because you are such a conflicted arsehole. You haven’t got the faintest what you are talking about but that doesn’t stop you opening your shit mixer and spewing forth.
                    All you want to do is divert, divert, divert.
                    Remember, for someone to take a moral position, one first has to have some morals and ethics. As a fuckwit right winger you are an immediate fail. National has had its ethics and morality guidelines set out by Cameron Slater and Mike Sabin.
                    And then you want to come on here and take the moral high ground.
                    You and your national cronies are in the sewer pit and your opinion is regarded accordingly.

                    • Thom Pietersen

                      Haha Mark – let Roflcopter hang off mummy’s teat a bit longer.

                    • Roflcopter

                      Wow, you’re up to 4 paragraphs! Head up your next reply as “Chapter 1: Morals and Ethics”.

                      Be sure to include as many nasty words as possible.

                  • Mark

                    Are you still here fuckwit. It must be really difficult to keep diverting and never face up to the issue. I understand in a way because being in the sewer pit with the Nats means the last thing you ever want to talk about is ethics and morality. But I will keep reminding you as you do have to hold fuckheads to account so I will be be your shadow from now on.

                    • Roflcopter

                      Really…. you go on the attack to cover for the fact that you support Twyford’s race-baiting as a way of getting rid of Quin, and then set to lecture others on morals and ethics.

                      You really are a fine piece of work… you must be so proud!

                      *thumbs up*

                    • Mark

                      You support a party that protects kiddie fuckers. That lets young children die in freezing homes. That runs sleeze campaigns from the Prime Minsters office, that won’t feed hungry children. Thats just a fraction of what you have signed up for as one of the scumbag Nats supporters and you want to talk about ethics and morality. You don’t really want to discuss ethics and morality because you can’t defend these arseholes. And your one of them. A protector of kiddie fuckers.

                    • Roflcopter

                      Congratulations: You have reached Level 2!

                      (you’ve got to be the most disgusting poster that’s ever graced The Standard)

                    • Mark

                      Divert, divert divert. You support a party that lives in the sewer.
                      By association you live there too. And you want to come on here and talk about morality and ethics. All Nats supporters have to have tunnel vision or else they would have to face the harsh reality they are scum buckets. You are a scum bucket. You haven’t even attempted to defend the National party and its revolting behaviour because its impossible.
                      If you don’t want to be associated with [r0b: deleted – over the top] you need to change your political party. Until you do you are one of them.

                    • Roflcopter

                      Keep going, I’m sure you can do better than that… you’ve repeated it five times already… try something new… go look up some new naughty words in the dictionary.

                    • Mark

                      Answer the question fuckhead because it ain’t going away. You support a party that protects kiddie fuckers, that lets children die of the cold and won’t feed hungry children. And you want people to accept that you are an ethical and moral person. Impossible. You are a scum bucket National supporter. I know the reason you can’t answer is you have no defence when you support the sewer party.

                    • Roflcopter

                      Damn, and I thought you were just warming up… looks like you’re just a bot, repeating, repeating, repeating.

                      C’mon, have a REAL good go at it….

                    • Mark

                      Just a National Party sewer rat. Down with the slime and filth merchants but I am sure you would say you an upright and model citizen. Unfortunately belonging to the sewer rat party makes that impossible. Just admit that you are a piece of slime and scum and we can move on.Until you face reality and admit that your support of the vile and degenerate sewer rat party reflects on you, I will just carry on.

      • North 17.1.3

        Why have a go at the Islanders, particularly ?

  18. Puckish Rogue 18

    Labour misses the point? Say it ain’t so…

    • Paul 18.1

      Questioning foreign ownership of housing has really got you right wing trolls active hasn’t it?
      Look at the comments under most Herald reports on the subject and count the number of comments in favour of Twyford in comparison to those against.
      But I guess that’s your focus groups are already telling you this and that’s why you and Gosman are working overtime at the moment….

  19. KK 19

    Good riddance.

  20. Mike the Savage One 20

    Phil Quin has been one of the political liabilities within Labour, I’d say, given some of the stuff he presented in the past. His views are perhaps better at home within National or ACT, I wonder:

    Will Josie Pagani be next on the way out? There may be hope for Labour after all, despite of Phil Twyford having put the cat amongst the pigeons, in a manner that could have been done a bit more professionally and carefully.

    I think Phil has just realised that Labour is not heading the way he would like the party to go.

  21. maui 21

    Probably a good thing, Quin can now hang with Pagani and Leggett more and work out how Labour becomes a better form of National, and destroy more of the Labour vote with it.

  22. Jenny Kirk 22

    Great to see him go ! He’s just a parasite and rightwing with it.

    And it wasn’t racist. It was just a bold step to make the government sit up and take a bit of notice of what’s happening in the Auckland property market (and the rest of the country too). There have been too many stories and anecdotes and friends’ tales about the number of foreigners – especially Chinese – who have flown in to go to Auckland auctions, done their bidding, and flown out again. Its real. And it needs to stop. Good on Labour for finally bringing it out into the open .

    • Tracey 22.1

      classifying people by their names isnt as dodgy as by colour? Really?

      • Dave_1924 22.1.1

        you seem to be fighting a lonely fight Tracey on this topic. I agree with you the racial profile was very poorly done.

        The issue is house affordability in Auckland and rapid, bubble like price rises that are currently occurring.

        Labour needs to be smarter in framing it and while its difficult due to lack of official stats on offshore buyers of AKL residential property its not impossible. Just go at the Government with anecdotes relentlessly – from what I have seen online it resonates as true with Aucklanders that they are being outbid by offshore interests.

        When the Government says no numbers to back the ancedotes – hit them with “you’re obviously not talking to your electorates because its all anyone is talking about”..

        Facts based discussions are best but that doesn’t mean a campaign can’t be waged without them when the campaign theme resonates with the target market namely Auckland Voters….

        • Karen

          Well put Dave.

        • Tracey

          i know there is a housing affordability issue in auckland. and can tell you my first home in morningside cost 145k in 1991 and sold for 410k in 2001 with onlt 25k spent by us on it.

          we need to address both supply and demand.

          i like twyford. alot. but this data was an own goal. not that “chinese” are labours target constituency so i guess they were sacrificing them to their target audience? i think too many forget how many generations of NZers trace back to chines immigration. in the 1800s and early 20th century.
          Ad should be please tho. he has been wanting LP to stoop to nats level if it means winning an election… kind of Orewa-esque

        • Sacha

          Thanks. I agree the topic is important and that the framing can be done better.

      • Thom Pietersen 22.1.2

        Bloody hell. let’s not observe and question our mindset.

    • Roflcopter 22.2

      Twyford et al., have offended Chinese enough for them to feel the need to take out full page advertising to put across their side of the story.

      If you can’t see the damage you’ve done to Chinese relationships, in particular, and our status as welcoming of a multi-cultural society, then you you deserve everything you get.

      • Jim Nald 22.2.1

        This isn’t good. I hope Labour will be building bridges asap. Caught up with The Standard’s posts and big thanks to Stephanie Rodgers whose antennae during the weekend very quickly picked up on the problematic interview on TV3’s The Nation and gave the heads up about the concerns involved.

    • John Shears 22.3

      What a change to read a level, calm , factual , post with no swear words and nobody vilified. Go Jenny.
      Oh! and by the way it is not Rascism, please take note trolls.

      • lprent 22.3.1


        I probably don’t help much. But I’m afraid that I always prefer getting my point across rather than being polite about it.

      • Tracey 22.3.2

        i am not a troll. neither is weka. disagreeing with you doesnt make us wrong.

  23. Policy Parrot 23

    I find it thoroughly amusing when National and its friends accuse Labour of racist dogwhistling – when it was the Nats that spent 18 months using racist dogwhistling about the average Kiwi summer weekend day at the beach being under threat from the ‘uppity natives’. They even suckered themselves in their deluded world view so much that they were using facetious “kia-ora’s” in their emails to each other.

  24. ankerawshark 24

    Yes just one question. If Labours figures about Chinese investors who don’t live here buying up Ak properties for speculative purposes turn out to be true, do those of you who are throwing around the racism label then think it is o.k. for us to discuss this problem????? Or are we not allowed to discuss it, even if it is true.

    Because I think Labours figures are likely to be true. That’s because there is a lot of anecdotal reports of it happening and they did look at what statistical possibility each name that was possibly Chinese would be Chinese and controlled for that.

    For me it is a little bit like getting good statistics about sexual violence. A lot of it not reported, but we know the rates are higher than what is. And we accept it is a problem. We don’t then say, “that’s really sexist we are hurting men’s feelings”

    BTW Good the issues has forced the resignation of Phil Quin.

  25. Tanz 25

    What gets me is that National are saying what Labour used to say and Labour are saying what National used to say. Good on Labour for taking up the issue, but what a pathetic response from National and co. They really don’t want to address anything; they are in bed with China all the way, and don’t care that our kdis’ birthrights are being sold down the road. Instead of being able to even discuss the problem, anyone concerned about China’s large take up of our property is labelled a racist. Where are the real men ??

  26. Puckish Rogue 26

    Yes, yes purging is good, purge the elements we don’t like from the broad church so that the broad church of Labour may best represent NZ

    • Paul 26.1

      It’s amazing how staunchly the members of the extreme right trolling community defend Labour’s right wing clique.
      You’d almost think you had a vested interest in them being in the Labour Party.

      • tc 26.1.1

        +1 Phil Quin along with Pagani and most of the other so called ‘left’ commentators in the MSM are all part of the DP multi faceted assault strategy.

        It’s why they get airtime and why this faux outrage angle has been taken by Quin as sheeple fodder that will be feed into radio rant land/hoskins/henry etc

      • Puckish Rogue 26.1.2

        Its a broad church right up until someone has a differing opinion

    • Stuart Munro 26.2

      Great selfie!

    • Tracey 26.3

      its like the self righteous right have erased Orewa speech and the recent attempt to hoodwink Ngati Whatua from their memories

  27. BlueSky 27

    “Ban foreign ownership of NZ land I say.”

    Ban ownership of land I say.

    At best people should be able to rent land paying the nation for the privilege. Increase the rent/ confiscate for exploitation.

  28. My tuppence worth about Phil Quin:

    Glad he’s gone, wish he’d gone a long time ago. National and ACT are his ideological home and they’re welcome to him. The NZ Labour party doesn’t need constant undermining from people who use their membership as a device to destroy the party from within. It’s cheap, cowardly and dishonest.

    Good riddance, Phil. You were very, very average.

    • adam 28.1

      I think, you point to the major problem of labour being a so called broad church party. To many of these people undermining the voice of working people.

      People need to get, to begin with, and for a very long time, labour was a party of radical opposition to the excesses of capitalism. Just read the original Maoriland worker or a printed copy of The Standard, mark one.

      Labour being a middle of the road, moderate party does no one any favours – it’s why I’ve said – It’s holding working people back. I hope people like you te reo putake and others can weed out these cheap, cowardly and dishonest members whose natural home is in a party like act or national. They are the ones who keep the boot at working peoples throat. It’s time more of them were pushed.

    • dukeofurl 28.2

      Isnt Phil running these days with Slater at Whaleoil- being the ‘labour sources he talks about constantly’

  29. Jim Nald 29

    The comments here and on related posts on TS bring home the very important point that the messenger and the message matter greatly and require careful choice or selection, whether it is Phil Quin or Phil Twyford.

  30. Enough is Enough 30

    Brilliant post.

  31. BlueSky 31

    No wonder John A Lee had a tough time in the Labour Party. Lee?!? What sort of a name is that mate? Have you bought a house?!?

    A good number of my relatives are Lee’s and of Irish ancestry. NZ citizens of at least 4 generations. Not a drop of Chinese to be seen though and I’m pretty sure none can afford a house in Auckland.

  32. Adrian 32

    You’re all missing the point, this money is Chinese GOVERNMENT money, lent at really ridiculously low rates to encourage wide-boys to buy off-shore assets.
    When the wide-boys fall over the Chinese Government claims the asset as the liability is to the Chinese Government owned banks.
    Clever, eh.
    Are we all comfy, read relaxed, about that?

    • Visubversa 32.1

      Or what is not Chinese Govt $$$ is ripped off from the Chinese people through corruption and/or exploitation, laundered through bribing Indonesion Govt officials to look the other way while they burn rainforests to plant palm oil. How else would a 24yr old Chinese guy buy a big commercial building in Takapuna?

  33. vaughan little 33

    clearly the people crying racism are wrong on this one, and using the resignation of a solitary unwelcome-anyway party member as the headline is just one more sign of how weak the position is.

    this is a problem that needed highlighting and labour is deservedly copping increased popularity as a result.

    however, chinese migrants cannot be expected to have the sophistication to understand the national political culture – i think you have to grow up in it, have grown up in something similar, or be quite involved to grasp what’s going on in nz politics. chinese tend not to integrate well into the cultures they land in, and i understand why many of them will be feeling worried about this. i sincerely hope that labour has figured out a strategy for engaging with local chinese communities on this problem, to communicate where labour is coming from, but i doubt they have. so labour has probably foreseeably created unease amongst a vulnerable population that isn’t famous for understanding what’s going on around it in nz.

    and lets remember that while labour is clearly not racist, their research will be picked up by quite racist people, and it’ll make the cultural environment a less pleasant one to be in for chinese migrants.

    • Sacha 33.1

      Pfft. When you dogwhistle, you expect some barking. Labour’s ‘leaders’ knew exactly what they were doing by framing this as a problem with Chinese people rather than with foreign investors.

      No use ducking and weaving now when the consequences arrive. And there will probably be a nice polling bump from people deserting Winston First (which may be larger than the numbers leaving Labour for the Greens). Embrace the redness. And do carry on making sweeping generalisations about other cultures. It’s the way to a brighter future, I hear.

    • vaughan little 33.2

      so to sum up, this needed to happen but there were always going to be some negative consequences, which a super-sharp labour could have positioned itself better to partially mitigate.

    • cogito 33.3

      “a vulnerable population that isn’t famous for understanding what’s going on around it in nz.”

      LOL. They understand enough to go to auctions, buy houses and donate to the National Party.

  34. Fustercluck 34

    Um…”Chinese” is not a “race” it is a name we give to the citizens of the nation-state of China. There are many “races” (for those who believe that the term means anything at all) in China.

    What is being discussed is the unbridled effects of Chinese capital flight on the NZ economy in general and the real estate market in particular.

    Those that raise the “race card” on both sides are merely hoisting a straw man.

    As long as NZ has permissive overseas ownership regulations we will continue to see our land snapped up as a safe investment for those seeking refuge from the latest crisis of capital.

    For our currency-trader PM to avoid discussing the implications of capital flight, i.e., how he made his money, is yet another of the herd of elephants in the room and a massive lie by omission!

    • Galeandra 34.1

      Well made points. Sacha will be along in a while.

    • Sacha 34.2

      ‘Chinese’ is an ethnic group of people who live in many nations including China and (gasp) New Zealand.

      We have had a problem for over a decade in NZ of foreign capital inflating our unregulated residential property bubble. For most of that time the main sources were nations like the US, UK and Australia but in the last couple of years (and especially months) China has grown dominant.

      It makes sense for Labour to look there (and practically it is harder to distinguish US/UK/Australian surnames from Pakeha ones).

      As an opposition party who wants to draw attention to that problem it makes sense to pin the responsibility on the current NZ government that has done nothing about it because the rating agencies they worship are quite happy for NZ to be balancing our obscene foreign debt levels with more foreign equity.

      There are ways of doing that which do not cloud the message with echoes of historic and current racist attitudes towards specific ethnic groups. Despite Labour’s woeful incompetence at political messaging for the last 7 years, this seems likely to be a deliberate choice to do otherwise. It may clarify what Labour stands for. Some will like that, some won’t.

      It may signal a coalition with NZ First and not the Greens. Some will like that, some won’t.

      The discussion may move on to the underlying core issue in coming days, but it sure gives the government an easy way to avoid that if they can simply chant ‘racist’ across the debating chamber and rely on the media to faithfully relay that to voters.

      Maybe that’s a risk worth taking? I guess we will find out.

  35. Binders full of women 35

    Three friends have recently bought houses all have Anglo sounding names ( even the French one) all 3 are foreign…. This clusterlabfuck reminds me of the angst that hit USA re japan bashing in the 80s…. They were buying everything … Yet when they checked (obviously had some kind of register….. Of property or capital inflow) japan was a lowly sixth after uk holland ( vast swathes of manhattan) Italy Canada and even Australia…

    • Fustercluck 35.1

      You will note that my comments pertained to capital flight of a generic type, not Chinese or American (although both are an issue…Harvard University has been as aggressive a buyer of dairy farms as any Chinese entity). Perhaps you should look up from your binders long enough to properly read a post before you twitch on the keyboard again.

      • Fustercluck 35.1.1

        Should have said: “Capital flight, currently Chinese, but of any nationality in general.” Binder may have caught me with a lazy edit. Damn!

    • Sacha 35.2

      “holland ( vast swathes of manhattan)”

      reclaiming territory.

    • Thom Pietersen 35.3

      Please go to an Auckland house auction – before you dribble all over your keyboard. The Global macro economics have changed since the 80’s – that was mainly commercial property – NOT our homes.

  36. NZJester 36

    I can’t believe he was stupid enough to believe the National party line that it was race based. Or was he just a right-wing stooge trying to undermine Labour from the inside as others have suggested and now showing his true yellow and blue colours? The Chinese just happen to be the biggest block from overseas who are currently investing in New Zealand houses because there are no restrictions on them doing so. This was the only way that an estimate could be produced on how much of the market is being driven by non resident buyers due to no register of non resident NZ house buyers being kept. It is not just the non resident Chinese nationals that we do not want buying up NZ properties upping the going price, but all non resident buyers regardless of race.
    If they came to live here and feed some of that money positively into our economy we would welcome them.
    National is just trying to sweep under the cover their inaction on preventing this bad property bubble that is well out of control and leaving a large number of houses vacant so they can be easily on-sold again for a profit causing rental prices to climb also.
    Maybe a lot of the people with no permanent roof over their head should be able to start squatting in any house left vacant for more than a year. They should however pay a fair pre property bubble rental price into a holding account for the owner and not be able to be kicked out as long as they treat the property with due care!

  37. G C 37

    Bye Phil bye – nobody cares

  38. Robert 38

    the Chinese wont give a flying fuck about any of it!
    they are more than likely Nat voters anyway, and key and Co will now increase more incentives for more too invest here and how more corrupt can you be than to just import more voters?
    ban all foreign land buying and shouldn’t be allowed to vote for atleast 5-8 yrs or receive any benefits. unless refugees imo

  39. SPC 39

    It is said that by the right that the left uses the cry racism to shut down debate.

    But it is the right that uses the cry xenophobia when national/New Zealanders interest is raised. This is done for class reasons, only those who own property here gain by being able to on-sell it to foreigners (whose involvement bids up the value of local assets).

    Today given so much of the foreign capital available for investment is sourced in China, the natural interest of the property/land owning class is to cast national self interest as either racist, or as having consequences for trade with China – as if our trade deals future is predicated on their disposition towards us, rather then the terms of any treaty.

  40. les 40

    such precious,indignation from some.If it looks like duck…..

  41. Heather Grimwood 41

    Scanning the column bit late in the day, but get strong vibes that it is somewhat mischievous/troublemaking towards Labour, with some ( as did Phil Quin) not listening or reading carefully in first place and so not sufficiently objective.
    This only plays into the hands of the Nats ( especially Steven Joyce who seems to be tasked with this) who are whipping up a general hysteria on false facts.
    Remember also that many newly immigrated folk from whatever ethnicity will not have the language competency to differentiate between fact and the falsity
    which is being blown up and repeated with such enthusiasm presently.
    I grieve.

    • Sacha 41.1

      “not listening or reading carefully”

      The responsibility with any communication lies with the utterer, not the receiver.

  42. cogito 42


    This guy is off his rocker. Idiot.

  43. Vaughan Little 43

    NZjester colonial viper is no stooge. he’s concluded that Labour is being racist because its put lots of effort into this whole china buyer thing without equally robustly addressing the other contributors to le bubble. he’s old school left who believes in structural reform and is pissed at labour for neglecting that side of things for the past million years.

    imo we should shut down foreign speculation and go after the banks. stop them lending money into existence.

    • Colonial Viper 43.1

      If Labour had really really really wanted to play the race card there were a dozen ways that they could have wedged the issue smarter than they did.

      Instead they played dumb politics. That’s why I’ve been calling Labour “inept.” I reckon the people in the Labour Party hierarchy who planned and calculated this were all Pakeha with roughly zero idea of the subtleties involved in say Singaporean born Chinese who are Kiwi citizens vis a vis wealthy foreign mainland Chinese investors.

      Too bad the Labour caucus doesn’t even have a single Chinese or East Asian MP within it that they could have asked.

      In summary, Labour decided to make a big call out to Waitakere Man (and Woman) using some good old fashioned race tagged red meat.

      • te reo putake 43.1.1

        Yeah, though none of what you say is true. Labour have not played the race card. There is no way to be honest about the information they had without identifying where the money is coming from. So they’re being damned by the right for not dog whistling, which is their preferred method, and damned by some on the left who are using faux outrage instead of their brains. It’s quite a bind.

        Still waiting for anybody to show that there is any racism and still waiting for alternative ways this info could have been used without it being trolled. Perhaps you could help me on the latter, CV? How could our party have done this. You reckon there’s many, many ways. Can you let us know what they are?

        • adam

          I’m bewildered that you can’t see the race card has been play, te reo putake, – I really am.

          Maybe you could try looking at the way the issue has been framed through the sociological lens of reflexivity.

          I also agree with author in the link below, on how many on the left have been nation gazing, or nationalist in their approach to dealing with this capitalist globalisation process we are in. Rather than using our tradition strength, of being true internationalists.

          How many who comment on this web site say they talk with allies and political associates across the globe on a daily, or even weekly basis? Or, that they even care about the workers in far off lands?

          • te reo putake

            Facts aren’t racist, adam. As I said in a post, it’s uncomfortable. But it remains a fact that Chinese non doms are screwing the Auckland house market. If Labour had done anything less than be upfront about the facts, that could well have been racist. That is, to hide the truth, but just hint about it would have been a dogwhistle.

            So Labour very deliberately did not play the race card, they went with being honest, but that isn’t going to stop the right (who are the experts at subtle bigotry) to say that they did. Happily, I think most Kiwis are just ignoring the bollocks and concentrating on the real issue. And that’s the damage being done to NZ by doing nothing about an identified problem.

            • marty mars

              disingenuous – “So Labour very deliberately did not play the race card,” – bullshit – ffs that is bloody orwell territory

              • Nope. It’s just the fact of the matter. They could have been devious, built it up over a few days, dropped hints, dogwhistled, teased it in blogs, primed loaded questions in parliament or any manner of shenanigans, but instead, they went with a open presentation of the facts. There really, really is no racism here. If there was, why hasn’t someone managed to explain how it’s racist? I’m guessing its because, um, it’s not.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Once operators like Keith Ng, Tze Ming Mok, Kiwiese, myself, Raybon Kan, and others have declared Labour’s tactics as somewhat poorly, its as good as gospel. Let alone Judith Collin’s husband Mr Wong-Tung ffs.

                  • bite your tongue – this area is designated for creating new truths not the old outdated ones. Let those in the know tell you exactly what you should think impertinent fool.

                • I have explained it but you quibbled about a small detail and didn’t address the multitude of points I honestly raised. Sure I found that offensive but I got over it.

                  Playing the race card can be done in many ways – some overt, some covert – those distinctions are irrelevant to the playing of the card.

                  You are in denial imo

                  • vto

                    I agree full denial

                    It even has the power inbalances going on as well

                    A Quite extraordinary display

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Chinese who grew up in NZ like myself are quite familiar with little sleights and innuendo from even Primary school days. You’d never even bother making a fuss. Why bother after all. If it had been Winston doing his thing, we would all have yawned and just got on with our day as usual. What I believe has shocked a lot of Kiwi Chinese this time around was that the barbs came from a totally unexpected and random corner – Labour.

                  • Look, I really appreciate the effort you put in, marty. You’re the only person I’ve seen even come close to establishing a case. But even then, you can’t quite make it stick, because, actually. it’s not racist. The fact is that non dom Chinese are distorting our market. It’s not racist to say that, because it is true.

                    • vto

                      I would never get away with that explanation

                    • lol at least you didn’t say, “With all due respect…” thanks for that.

                    • Ha! I’m not that patronising (am I?). I was saying on another forum that one of the most remarkable things about the last few days is how little moderation has been needed. This issue has been a shining example of how good most of TS’s commenters are. We’ve been able to argue, debate, disagree and chide each other without going over the top. It’s really cool.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The fact is that non dom Chinese are distorting our market. It’s not racist to say that, because it is true.

                      Oh its not the statement which is racist. And yes, the statement is definitely true.

                      The bit which is racist is not the statement, but the omission: that non dom (and frankly, foreign dom) hot money from all over the world is distorting our market, not just from the PRC. Hundreds of mostly empty holiday homes in Wanaka and Queenstown, anyone? Bought up by millionaires from USA, Canada right through to UK and the rest of Europe. Distorting the market. Not mentioned.

                    • Nah, that’s still not racism. If it’s a fact that the dominant group of speculators come from China, and it does seem to be the case, then saying so is not racist. The method for identifying that fact might be crude, to use Little’s phrase, but the result stands.

                    • @TRP

                      No you aren’t thank the goddess. And yes I think overall tone of this debate has been a good example of how good this site is.

                    • adam

                      Your missing mine and other peoples’ point te reo putake – you can take you facts and figures as read. That is not the point ffs. How many times have people got to say this – that they way Tywford framed, then presented his argument was racist. The content is just the content. It’s how he chose to present the content which is the dam problem. And why myself, and others on the left are calling him a racist twit.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      adam – this is not really centred around Twyford, mores the worry. A whole team including the Leaders Office was involved in synthesizing and vetting the angle and the content that Twyford acted as front man for, on TV.

                    • Quite probably right, CV. And boy, isn’t it a change to have the team working together and getting some traction. We haven’t seen this level of cooperation in years.

                    • adam

                      Colonial Viper I think I just threw up in my mouth. I honestly thought he’d gone rouge in his framing and presentation. *sigh*

              • Thom Pietersen

                2 + 2 = 5 in new (lefty nutbar) speak – that’s Orwell territory ‘mind control’ marty mars. What could we use as the potential basis of facts? Nope? Oh yup, we’re at war with Eurasia or is that Eastasia. I’ll just wait for a spin of the moral compass.

          • Heather Grimwood

            The race card is being played NOT by Labour, but by those making a big deal out of promoting their fabricated ‘scandal’ to safeguard big deals of their own.

            • Skinny

              It is blowing up in the Nats face and Joyce knows they will have to do more than Zero Hours & Swamp Kauri smoke and mirrors charades.

              Well played Labour we all know scratch beneath the surface and the redneck back lash comes out in the hundreds of thousands.

              Central China deserve a serve for blatantly fueling land banking in foreign countries by its Nationals.

            • adam

              Yes as a disabled person who can only work 1/2 days, can you please tell me where my big deal is. Because since the age of 16 I have never been able to work full time ( a short period in my early 20’s – but I drank to do that – which I thought was a bad idea – so I stopped) – I’ve been a renter my whole life, so I’ll wonder out loud – what is the big safeguard are you talking about.

              So Heather Grimwood before you go for the grand generalisation, maybe yo could ask if I have another agenda. And well yes I do. I dislike racism with a passion, I hate racists I think they are lowest sort of scum. Yeah, you heard me, with former national Leader Don Brash holding a very special place in Hell for his low scum ball nature.

              You know what, I really am getting sick of those on the left in this country, who seem to think it’s OK to make a villain out of anyone else on the left who is saying the dribble that came out of the Twit Tywfords mouth was racism. His framing and continuation of the same threads – even through his so called clarification were sickening.

              It was the worst type of racism – it was from someone who should be standing up against it – not promoting it. I’d rather have it come from a skinhead, then you know they are just another cracker. Mind you I suppose I should get some good cheese this week to go with all the new crackers I’ve discovered.

        • Colonial Viper

          Perhaps you could help me on the latter, CV? How could our party have done this. You reckon there’s many, many ways. Can you let us know what they are?

          Sure mate. Given that the entire staff of the Leaders Office and a bunch of MPs involved in creating this strategy couldn’t figure it out, here is the basic plan:

          Firstly, stop Grant Robertson from hiding off in the shadows outside the fallout zone. He should have been out for the last week making a big noise about the dangers to NZ of China’s massively collapsing financial markets, drawing attention to fears in Canada, Australia, UK etc that Chinese money was going to flood into those markets.

          Secondly, find a few young Kiwi Chinese faces willing to come forward and say what a tough time they are having trying to find their first home in AKL. Do a few other similar things to wedge between Kiwi Chinese (as good) and foreign big money investors from Asia (as bad).

          Thirdly get Twyford to go on air with the name list, say that the list is merely indicative of a very large issue – foreigners buying up Kiwi land, making homes unaffordable; get a repeat from Grant Robertson on the dangers of hot money capital flows into a small market like NZ. Emphasise principles of economic sovereignty and Kiwi land for Kiwi citizens and permanent residents.

          Fourthly – follow up this week with some very gutsy and innovative policies to halt the sale of Kiwi land to foreigners, and to stop the flood of hot money flowing into NZ boosting up our property prices and our exchange rate. (Don’t just solely rely on old has-been policy from 2014!)

          I’ve even got a follow up strategy to link this all up to regional development and boosting manufacturing, etc. but that’s enough for now as
          Labour is clearly struggling to chew gum and walk at the same time.

          • te reo putake

            Sweet! That’s good plan, actually, CV. Thanks for taking the time to lay it out. I’d leave Robertson out, myself. Much better to have one face fronting it, but I can see how he could add a layer to it. Re: the policy, that would be my one criticism of Labour so far. They should have been banging the ‘and Labour will do this about it’ drum right from the start. But the message is getting out that Labour, the Greens and NZF do have policy to knock this speculation on the head.

            Again, thanks. Nice work.

          • Karen

            Thanks CV. I copied this post and sent it to Phil Twyford and Andrew Little.

            I think I need to stop reading the Standard for a while because I am just getting too upset by the number of left wing people who don’t seem to get what was so wrong about the way Twyford handled this issue.

            • Jim Nald

              Hang in there, Karen. Thanks for your comments.

            • Heather Grimwood

              To Karen….sure Phil Twyford should have in my opinion included all O/S non-resident buyers of NZ housing, but my contention is that participating in discussion just plays into Nats hands. I assure you I have always travelled left, considerably left …… often from rash activism, but sometimes a considered manner is wise.

  44. Colonial Viper 44

    John Moore gets it:

    Labour – a party running on empty

    The Labour Party still adheres – officially at least – to a programme of social justice and equality. But the problem for Labour is that as a pro-capitalist party, it must accept the fundamental paradigm of economic liberalism and the structures of the modern global economy that define modern capitalism. Both Labour and National see the global capitalist system as a given, and so any New Zealand government is both constrained and defined by the realities of the shifting nature of this international system. Therefore for nominal left parties like Labour, a crisis of identity persists because today even minor leftwing reforms seem impossible.
    It shouldn’t be like this. After all, concerns around issues such as poverty and inequality have dominated people’s consciousness since the financial crisis. Yet throughout the Western world, traditional parties of the left like Labour have completely failed to benefit from this growing sense of unease over stagnating living standards for the majority, and disquiet at the lavish lifestyles of the West’s economic elite.

    Labour, as with other social democratic parties such as in Europe and Australia, no longer offer and promote bold reformist programmes to the electorate. Instead we see such parties playing around with any populist rhetoric that they hope can gain them traction. And so here in New Zealand we are now seeing the hollow shell of a party that is Labour, descending into the politics of racism in attempt to differentiate themselves from the more openly pro-globalization National Party. Equally, Labour is now trying to win over voters who currently support the outright anti-Asian and xenophobic New Zealand First Party. Cynical politics indeed.

    • Atiawa 44.1

      What “bold reformist programmes” would capture the attention of the NZ electorate right now, enough to increase Labour from a 30% vote winning party to a 40 – 45% main coalition leading governing party?

      • Colonial Viper 44.1.1

        There is none. This is because the NZ public has relatively recently figured out that (for the most part) Labour only proposes policies in order to win votes, and not because it truly believes in them and backs those policies to the hilt.

      • Reddelusion 44.1.2

        Labour just giving up the ghost and collapsing into the national party 😀

        On a more serious note I just don’t think people are as unhappy as you think Prople don’t like change but steady as you go, barring a crisis. Labours issue is it is a looser brand, led by perceived looser, I don’t really think what ever they put up people would buy. the phone is off the hook

  45. geoff 45

    Phil Quim quits……and nothing of value was lost

  46. keyman 46

    never heard of him so wont miss him sounds like a twat

  47. Robert 47

    what else can labour do? they state the obvious and get slammed by nats, who gives a shit! and the Chinese and others knew sooner or later it was bound to come up! wake the f up NZ. national are selling us down the river.
    stop voting for the Tory scum. their current leader isn’t even going to live here, similar to what’s been portrayed

    • Reddelusion 47.1

      Here we go again, the whole country is been duped barring the likes of the enlightened Robert. As long as the left keeping thinking this way with their ugly language too boot and the attacking of their own who dare not prey at their alter of delusion or achieve their view of socialist purity they are truly rooted

      • Weepus beard 47.1.1

        Jesus, what a mess that post is. Up your game, please!

      • te reo putake 47.1.2

        Weirdly, the “whole country” seems to be able to identify the real issue, if the message boards and talkback are anything to go by. But disingenuous righties are going to carry on with the faux outrage, because that’s the only alternative they have to actually agreeing that something needs to be done about foreign exploitation of our housing market.

        • Weepus beard

          Perusing other, more diverse message boards, it looks like even the right wing agree with everything Phil Twyford has put forward and also agree with his reasons for doing so.

          Only the greedy person with speculative property investment value to lose is against the end to which Twyford is pointing.

  48. Mike the Savage One 48

    So TV3 news had this topic at the start of their nightly newscast, presented as if there is wider dissent within Labour, and members (in plural) appear to be defecting. But while that story went on, they only presented ONE member, who resigned, Mr Phil Quin.

    Where is the objectivity, I ask?

    There is obviously some discussion within Labour, about what Phil Twyford did, and what Andrew Little appears to support, while firmly denying that it has anything to do with xenophobia or even racism, but I cannot see mass defections.

    It seems the MSM are at it again, trying to present a “divided” opposition, within Labour. Maybe Phil Quin has friend within the MSM, giving him more attention than he may deserve.

    • Atiawa 48.1

      Yep and sooooooooooo predictable.

    • You left out the bit where they screened video of Nazi concentration camps, with quotes from Quin getting all Godwin on Labour’s ass. If this guy was an “influential member,” thank Christ his “influence” ends here.

      • Mike the Savage One 48.2.1

        Yes, thanks for reminding me, that sent a chill down my back, mischievous, absolutely mischievous, but not surprising.

      • Weepus beard 48.2.2

        Really? TV3? That’s sick.

    • Reddelusion 48.3

      Racial stereotyping is racism no matter what Little thinks, it is what other people think that’s the issue here. It stirs the pot of those who are racist and further cements and or justifies their views, similarly it is what such statement mean to every day Chinese who are stigmatised that matters, not what the two immigrant twitford and Little think . Labour where well aware of what they where doing here. This makes it even more deplorable, they can’t hide behind a lack of statistics. they new very well what the secondary effects of this stunt would be but decided to go ahead any way for political gain, bugger collateral damage to a minority group

      • McFlock 48.3.1

        Racial stereotyping is actually the opposite of what Labour have done here.

        They have the assumption that all NZ resident self-reported ethnicities have roughly the same house purchase rate, and that the observed discrepancy is therefore probably due to overseas speculation.

        • Thom Pietersen

          Mmmmm if not, why not? Why would it seem other NZ ethnic groups are performing so badly? I wonder whether we should undertake some racial profiling? Poor education, lack of dosh? We should look at a way to target assistance.

          • McFlock

            Well, the first step would be to actually establish that there is a disparity in purchase rates for the resident population, and the level of activity of overseas investors.

            I’m a firm believer in not doing too much work before (or even after) a situation has been assessed.

      • te reo putake 48.3.2

        And yet there was no racial stereotyping. Mind you, I’m guessing you don’t actually know what it is, do you?

  49. Blue 49

    Good riddance to Quin – that’s probably the only bright spot to come out of this fiasco.

    Labour finally did something that captured the public’s interest and landed a solid blow on the National Party. They have nothing to defend themselves with, having denied there is a problem with foreign ownership, refused to measure it and blatantly lied about the scale of it.

    The only thing they and their supporters can do is cry ‘racism!’ (piously pretending that they are usually paragons of equality, justice and human rights themselves) and then watch as the left fall all over ourselves to back off, apologise and crawl back into our hole, which is exactly where they want us.

    China is currently in a unique position, with many people desperately trying to get large sums of money out and invested into property overseas. This is a widely acknowledged phenomenon across Australia, Canada, the UK and the USA. It’s only NZ who can’t seem to have a grown-up conversation about it.

    Meanwhile, National sit back, relax and rub their hands together as they and their voters profit from ever-increasing prices, the left dissolve into a muddle of headless chooks scratching at each other and the Kiwi dream of home ownership dies a little more every day.

    • Reddelusion 49.1

      Still racial stereotyping blue, no matter how you want to sugar coat it.

      • Paul 49.1.1

        “The only thing they and their supporters can do is cry ‘racism!’ (piously pretending that they are usually paragons of equality, justice and human rights themselves) “

    • Clemgeopin 49.2


      Well said!

    • whateva next? 49.3

      “Meanwhile, National sit back, relax and rub their hands together as they and their voters profit from ever-increasing prices, …”
      Exactly Blue, it’s a gravy train, and we are expected to smile and wave as it chugs past, which is what “the vast majority of nu zillanders” are doing right now by shooting the messenger.

  50. Reddelusion 50

    For a guy that no one knows or cares about phil Quinn certainly generated a lot of traffic and got you lot exercised

    • Not really. For a starter, he really is a norman no mates. So influential, nobody is sure how his surname is spelt. (cf your own comment). Most of the comments here aren’t about him, but his pointless resignation does give us a chance to talk about the wider issue.

  51. Clemgeopin 51

    Phil Quin and all the rest that have stupidly and unfairly framed this issue as a racist one instead of looking at it as an honest take on the serious contemporary housing crises where house prices are massively sky rocketing making it pretty hard for ordinary residents, including the local Chinese residents, to own a home, should read this email from Mr Phil Twyford that I just received:

    ” Dear Clem,

    Since Saturday, I’ve received many messages about the release of data that suggests foreign speculators are dramatically driving up the cost of housing in Auckland.

    As you will be aware, there’s been a lot of commentary and debate on this issue. The majority of feedback has been in support – but there have also been accusations of racism because the data indicated that lots of offshore investment was coming from one particular country.

    This is not about that. It’s about facing up to the effect foreign property speculation is having on the residential property market and having an open and honest debate about the housing crisis and how we fix it. Overseas buyers are making it harder for all New Zealanders to get on the property ladder, and that includes Chinese New Zealanders.

    It’s been Labour policy since 2013 to ban overseas, non-resident speculators from buying housing in New Zealand. If people want to immigrate to New Zealand, from whatever country, we’ll welcome them with open arms as new New Zealanders. If offshore investors want to build new houses, we’ll welcome that too, as that adds to New Zealand’s housing stock. But if they are speculating on New Zealand homes, at the expense of resident New Zealanders – whatever their ethnicity – we think that’s wrong.

    The ban on overseas speculators is just one example of our toolbox of policies to cool the Auckland housing market. We’ll also:

    Build 100,000 new homes over 10 years
    Refresh our state housing stock
    Ensure that all houses are warm and dry with a Healthy Homes Guarantee that assists with heating, as well as insulation
    Encourage investment in productive industries rather than speculation in the housing market

    Recently introduced government measures do little to fix either the supply or demand problem that is driving up prices.

    Unlike National, Labour takes the housing crisis seriously. We understand how important it is to our families, our communities, and to our economy, that all Kiwis have a decent chance of owning their own home.

    If you’d like to share your thoughts with me, feel free to reply to this email.


    Phil Twyford
    Labour’s Housing Spokesperson

    P.S. Click here if you’d like to read the original story in the NZ Herald
    click here for more information on the data.

    • Chooky 51.1

      +100 Clemgeopin…my estimation of the Labour Party has gone up….at last they are confronting the facts head on….maybe I will renew my Labour Party membership afterall

      ….and after Metiria Turei’s outburst not join up with the Greens afterall, despite the encouragement of some Green friends…seems like Turei bought into Nacts racist framing

      • Colonial Viper 51.1.1

        Well the facts are that the Auckland housing bubble has been inflating since 2001/2002 and to point the finger at the Chinese at this late stage is pretty damn disingenuous. Should foreigners be permitted to buy NZ land, of course not. But Labour should be presenting the real problem, not just one selective part of it.

        • Chooky

          “Labour should be presenting the real problem, not just one selective part of it”

          …more anecdotal evidence from a horses mouth Real Estate agent… this time in Christchurch:

          …two Hong Kong families each bought up 40 houses…this equals 80 houses…this same Real Estate agent says virtually all of Riccarton is now owned by Chinese

          ….”disingenuous”?…”racist”? …

          (well if that is how you use the Nact framing terms ….maybe huge amounts of precious Maori taonga swamp kauri going off to China is also “disingenuous ” and “racist”? …of course it is New Zealand’s fault for not having the safeguards and regulations in place to not be ripped off! …NZ should have better rules in place…and while we are at it …maybe the words “China” and “Chinese” should not be used at all in a pejorative sense?…I expect this would be the line of the Chinese government and Chinese Party )

          Despite the Greens naive , inept accusation of “crude racial profiling” leveled at the Labour Party ( hence torpedoing their main coalition partner and future hope of being in government) Labour is presenting a real problem!…and not in a racist way…a factual way

  52. Sable 52

    Labour and National are slowly destroying this country. Every day they sell us out to foreign governments, corporations and businesses. Rather than having the guts to tell the US govt and its parasite corporations to fuck off, rather than outright banning foreign ownership of property, rather than making foreign companies doing business here pay their share of taxes they bend over backwards to betray us all at every turn.

    Worse still morons still doggedly vote for and support the very people who are oppressing them. Simply amazing…..

  53. Weepus beard 53

    Hey CV. Stick to the topic please. This is Auckland housing we are talking about, not Wanaka and Queenstown.

    You might get banned for diversion…

  54. millsy 54

    I wonder if Austrians, Czechs, Russians, in the late 30’s and early 40’s got accused of racism for expressing concerns about Germany?

    • cogito 54.1

      What is pretty evident is that China is engaging in its own particular version of “lebensraum”, and that little ol’ Niu Zilan is being gradually swallowed up.

  55. Melanie Scott 55

    I have just read the whole list of posts here. By far the sanest, and best and most lucid, is the last one, by Blue. Sadly I agree with every word.
    Tomorrow is another day and perhaps we can all start again.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    1 day ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 day ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    1 day ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    2 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    2 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    3 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    3 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    3 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    3 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    4 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    4 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    4 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy
    5 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    5 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    5 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    5 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    2 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    2 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    2 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    2 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    2 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    2 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    3 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    3 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    3 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    3 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    3 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    4 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    4 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    4 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    4 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    4 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    4 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    4 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    5 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    5 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    5 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    5 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    6 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    6 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    1 week ago