Polity: The Internet Party launch

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1. karol 1

   28 March 2014 at 10:44 am

   Yes. KDC is very good on PR, but woefully lacking in knowledge of politics. He is more interested in his busines deals and position than in politics.

   I do agree he will probably lead and influence NZ political party in the use of digital apps.

   Will Sue Bradford resign from Mana if any kind of Mana-IntP deal goes through?
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     28 March 2014 at 11:26 am

     KDC is very good on PR, but woefully lacking in knowledge of politics.

     I think you’ll find that he’s gone blissfully through life without even thinking about politics and then he got slammed in the face by a police raid on him with what appears to be major political purpose and no crime involved on his part. This has shown him that politics is actually important and that he can’t ignore it but he doesn’t really have a position on it yet. I won’t be surprised if he does actually end up going left as he appears to be intelligent and will accept what the research shows.
     • karol 1.1.1

       28 March 2014 at 11:31 am

       hmmmm… I think his main underlying values are related to business and making money. That is indicated in the main policy platforms of his party. I wouldn’t trust him to stay left-friendly.

       And for that reason, I’d be sad to see Mana making any kind of formal alliance with the Internet Party.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

         28 March 2014 at 12:15 pm

         I think his main underlying values are related to business and making money.

         At the moment, I agree with you but I don’t believe he will stay that way. Still, I could be wrong.
         • karol 1.1.1.1.1

           28 March 2014 at 12:20 pm

           I’m a little concerned that too many on the left seem to be influenced by KDC’s ability with PR, and his public personality, rather than any in depth consideration of his values and aims.

           I see nothing of the main left values of collaboration, social justice, inclusiveness, support for the least well off and of wage slaves and beneficiaries, etc.
           • weka 1.1.1.1.1.1

             28 March 2014 at 12:51 pm

             +1 karol.

             Is there anything to stop him from forming an alliance with NACT next time? Is he going to be the next Winston Peters?
           • Max_Fletcher 1.1.1.1.1.2

             28 March 2014 at 1:11 pm

             +1 Karol. Couldn’t agree more.

             If the raid hadn’t happened one wonders whether he would still be funneling money to the right.
             • Tracey …

               28 March 2014 at 2:27 pm

               like if labour govt hadnt happened key would still be rorting the money markets on behalf of the wealthy… and not meeting celebrities
       • Ant 1.1.1.2

         28 March 2014 at 12:51 pm

         I’ll be sad to see this too karol, although it seems that there are a number of people both inside and outside Mana who still seem deadset on pursuing that agenda.
   • Tracey 1.2

     28 March 2014 at 2:25 pm

     at least we know that he and his business interests are what motivates him.

     alan gibbs cares about new zealanders, or specific kiwis?

     does john key care about nzers or himself and those hes mixed with for the last 30 years.

     dotcom is not the first person to be otivated into politics to change something that impacted him personally.

     if he can halve internet fees in nz and get computers and the like into more low decile schools…

     how many policies do people think a party should have as a minimum?

     legalise canabis is a one policy party/campaign
   • marty mars 1.3

     28 March 2014 at 2:39 pm

     I’d imagine that many in Mana will resign if a deal between Mana and TIP goes through – I will not put my energy into that and will resign my membership.
     • phillip ure 1.3.1

       28 March 2014 at 2:58 pm

       why marty..?

       why don’t you go and look at the policy-precis on the internet party website..

       ..and then tell us what you object to there..?

       ..i am a mana party member..who (all the ducks being lined up in a row first..of course..) is open to the idea of an alliance-lite deal..

       ..and i have gone and looked..and see nothing to alarm..and a bit to plse..

       ..and you wd want to make an informed ‘resigning’ decision…eh..?

       (..and..don’t we have some unfinished business..?..heh..!..)

       ..(and i am sure alarm bells must be going off 4 sue b….when she is serially-cited by the right..

       ..as being ‘right’..eh..?

       ..that must be a novel experience 4 her..)

       ..you do know..don’t u marty..that the right are horrified at the possible impact a mana/ip deal cd have on the election result..eh..?

       ..(hence nazi-dirty-tricks etc..)

       ..and what does that tell you..?

       ..and..cd u plse specify the detail of yr concerns…?..around any such alliance-deal..?

       (that is a serious question..)
       • marty mars 1.3.1.1

         28 March 2014 at 3:11 pm

         Yes phil my apologies to you – I was wrong about what I thought – I’ve been away portering on the Heaphy Track and have only just got back thus my tardiness in saying sorry. Sorry for that 🙂

         My concerns are as I stated them a few days ago. I don’t trust dotcom. I don’t think there is an alignment with the kaupapa of Mana. I think any agreement will be to the detriment of Mana.

         For me i don’t agree with Hone when he says getting rid of the gnats is the be all and end all although getting rid of the policies which cause harm to the most vulnerable in society is my intention and moving towards tino rangatiratanga of course.

         I’ve looked at the vision and mission and frankly the stated items are all good but well down the list of my priorities.
         • phillip ure 1.3.1.1.1

           28 March 2014 at 3:49 pm

           ist para..that’s all cool..(‘heaphy track’..you lucky bugger..!..’new north rd’..me..sigh..!..)

           ..2nd para..their stated policy outlines to date seem ok 2 my eyes..and i do see an ‘alignment’ there..

           ..and it isn’t a marriage..

           ..and re ‘detriment’..?..if mana jump in the party vote poll-rankings..which if voting-patterns repeat..cd bring in many of those we wd like to see as mp’s..

           ..will you then see positives from this deal..?..)

           ..and tho’ list-placement may differ 4 u..(and 4 me..i add..poverty..poverty..poverty..is the first thing to fix..)

           ..do you see that mission statement/aspirational bullshit stuff as a leap too far..?

           ..or kinda ok..?
           • marty mars 1.3.1.1.1.1

             28 March 2014 at 4:15 pm

             No, the mission statements are all good – I don’t have any issues with them but I prioritise other things higher – much higher. And imo TIP can go for it with them but I don’t believe that Mana can afford to be distracted by this stuff – even for power – and I think that would happen especially when money is involved.
             • lurgee …

               28 March 2014 at 4:33 pm

               Speaking as a middle class, mortgaged European immigrant, I regard Hone Harawira as a man of honour and integrity. I admire his passion – which sometimes gets him into trouble – and the forthright way he responds to criticism. I wanted him and his values in parliament, which is why I voted for Mana in 2011 (in 2008, I felt unable to vote for any party and submitted a spoiled ballot paper – that’s how seriously I take my political choices).

               .com, on the otherhand, I regard as a self serving parasite who uses his wealth to buy influence to further his own interests. Buying a copy of Mien Kampf signed by Hitler as ‘an investment’ sums up the man perfectly – he sees the Holocaust as something he can make money out of, so he can have more baubles and trophy wives.

               I can’t see any relationship between the two parties working to the benefit of Mana. It will be tainted by the corrosive .com brand – he can play the loveable rogue only so much, and Mana will be continually question about why it is associating with a multi-millionaire possible criminal serial supporter of the right. It is a disasterous mis-step.
               • phillip ure …

                 28 March 2014 at 4:40 pm

                 “..Buying a copy of Mien Kampf signed by Hitler as ‘an investment’ sums up the man perfectly – he sees the Holocaust as something he can make money out of”

                 ..this simplistic-bullshit is already covered/discounted to death in the other thread..

                 “..so he can have more baubles and trophy wives.”

                 ..why the studied-insult to the mother of all his children..?

                 ..aren’t you stepping over lines you shouldn’t there..?

                 ..fucken ‘ew!’..
                 • lurgee …

                   28 March 2014 at 4:49 pm

                   “..Buying a copy of Mien Kampf signed by Hitler as ‘an investment’ sums up the man perfectly – he sees the Holocaust as something he can make money out of”

                   ..this simplistic-bullshit is already covered/discounted to death in the other thread..

                   Only by those who persist in seeking to dismiss it. To me, it’s a good index of the man’s moral fibre, or lack of it. You discoutn it if you like, but I find someone buying a signed copy of Hitler’s Book as ‘an investment’ repellent.

                   “..so he can have more baubles and trophy wives.”

                   ..why the studied-insult to the mother of all his children..?

                   That is probably fair criticism. I spoke in haste, and repent 9as I’m out of the 7 minutes editing time) repent for all e-ternity.

                   Mona Dotcom, I apologise.
             • phillip ure …

               28 March 2014 at 4:34 pm

               “..and I think that would happen especially when money is involved…”

               cd you unpack that one a bit..?

               ..the mana-message/policies will still be the mana-message/policies..?

               ..surely..

               ..as with the old alliance..the parties wil campaign on their own rights/policies..

               ..those different policies from different parties just need to be able to rub along together..

               ..not just be duplicates of each other..?

               ..surely..?

               ..and i see this..going on what has been cited/sighted so far.. as being the case here..

               ..with this proposed alliance-lite deal between mana and the internet party..

               ..for dotcom i see the security of hones’ seat..(him tailgating on that..)

               ..for mana..i see complimentary-policies..funding for election-campaign..

               ..and the ability to tailgate on the novelty/’new’ of the internet party..

               ..to get more of those people we want to see as mp’s..in parliament..

               ..under the mana banner…

               ..(and if this coupling can echo the achievements of similar ‘pirate’ parties in europe..

               ..we will really be rocking and rolling..

               ..key will be gone..

               ..and there will be a much stronger mandate for change/repair..

               ..what’s not to love about all that..?..)
               • marty mars …

                 28 March 2014 at 7:10 pm

                 I don’t see the tailgate idea as being positive – it lessens the Mana Movement imo. I also don’t see the policies between Mana and TIP being particularly complementary – the Greens and Mana are a stronger complement.

                 So for me it adds up to lots of positives for TIP and not many, if any, for Mana which equates to a no go option. I’d go further and say that I think it is an exceedingly bad idea and whoever thought it was a good idea within Mana needs to reexamine their motivations because I see the destruction of Mana if it goes ahead.
                 • phillip ure …

                   28 March 2014 at 8:07 pm

                   “..it lessens the Mana Movement imo…”

                   cd u detail how the mana movement will be ‘lessened’..?

                   “..also don’t see the policies between Mana and TIP being particularly complementary ..”

                   cd u say which ones you see as non-‘complementary’..?

                   “..the Greens and Mana are a stronger complement…”

                   i didn’t realise that was an option on the table..

                   ..and why wd any deal rule out still working with the greens..?

                   ..and if we see a serious jump in mana party party support in the next round of polls..

                   ..will you reconsider that option..?

                   ..and how wd this ‘destroy’ mana..?
                   • marty mars …

                     28 March 2014 at 8:32 pm

                     Phil – so many questions

                     it is lessened because it is being used by a rich person for their own ends without benefiting the kaupapa of Mana imo

                     concentrating on those that most need help (and that is not people that need internet) is the kaupapa I believe in – everything else is secondary and maybe somewhat sortof complementary or not imo eg Digital Currency is not on my list and I don’t care about it – sure it may be needed and may help but I’m more concerned with tangata whenua who don’t have a home or are in prison or die younger JUST because they are Māori – other platforms of TIP are cool – no TPPA great!, environment Yay!, – TIP can go hard on all their issues and that is great. I’d prefer Mana concentrate their resources and energy on those who are suffering most in our society – I can’t make it plainer than that.

                     it doesn’t rule out any other deals if they do this one my point is that the better fit is with the Greens

                     No I won’t reconsider because the ethos (if a deal is made) will not be the same

                     Mana will be destroyed when those that believe in the kaupapa no longer believe that is considered the highest priority from the leadership or movement and imo that will happen if the deal is done
                   • phillip ure …

                     28 March 2014 at 8:41 pm

                     so..if the internet party came out with strong social/poverty-busting policies..(which they have indicated/hinted at in their policy-precis..)

                     ..wd this ease some of your unease…?
                   • marty mars …

                     28 March 2014 at 8:52 pm

                     actions speak louder than words or policy – that’s why Mana is go great
                   • phillip ure …

                     28 March 2014 at 9:34 pm

                     and on that non-sequiter..note..

                     ..the conversation trailed off…
                 • Clemgeopin …

                   28 March 2014 at 8:25 pm

                   How about a ‘Greens, IT, Mana alliance’ [GRIM]?
                 • Murray Olsen …

                   29 March 2014 at 12:43 am

                   Pretty much my position on it as well, mm. Mana has been building slowly, it’s doing something that’s never been done before, and a dalliance with Dotcom could spell the end of it. While I wouldn’t turn him over to the seppos, I also would not hop into bed with him politically.
2. jaymam 2

   28 March 2014 at 11:17 am

   I suspect The Internet Party is merely a publicity distraction by Dotcom, to help his court cases. However he will get support from people who have never voted before, and get a large protest vote So what if he rorts the MMP system by having an alliance with another party? That’s what National is doing in Epsom and Ōhariu. The Alliance Party was comprised of a mish-mash of small parties with differing policies.
   • aerobubble 2.1

     28 March 2014 at 12:50 pm

     His business is the internet. Woeful high prices for broadband have weighed down on our economy for too long. And now with the roll out, its patchy nature, is driving up the infrastructure costs (as teams of installers have to visit even home, rather than connecting up a whole street and thus save traveling costs). So you might not be listening but others are.

     Second, Key refused to close the coat tailing electoral law. Now Dotcom in his political naivety piggy backs on ?Mana? to expose Key unprincipled desperate clingy regard for ACT and UF. LOL.

     Third, three leaders three possessions. Churchill’s cigarette holder, Stalins pen and Hitler book, now let see, the worst you can say about Churchill is his smoking and drinking, Stalin signed millions to their death, and Hitler wrote an ranting and raving political religion, ideology for idiots. Why should Dotcom have these items, its not like the Hitler youth would have regard such a obese individual as their brother, the SS would not have had a first look at him.

     So all in all, No.I disagree, it is politics, it about the economy, its about big government abuses, and he obvious cannot deny history, like Key did when he said we had such a peaceful history.

     Did not the Maori show how to defend against mass assault by guns and mortar for the first time, i.e brought trench warfare to the world.

     Anyway I won’t be voting for Dotcom.
     • Tracey 2.1.1

       28 March 2014 at 2:33 pm

       ” the worst you can say about Churchill is his smoking and drinking, ”

       if youve only ever done a cursory reading and believe only the defeated can slaughter innocents.
     • Naturesong 2.1.2

       28 March 2014 at 3:11 pm

       the worst you can say about Churchill is his smoking and drinking

       Are you serious?

       If you are either an Australian or a New Zealander, the clusterfuck that was Gallipoli immediately springs to mind.

       And for those that have any sympathy toward the trade union movement will likely know of his overt hostility toward them in his speeches, editorials in the British Gazette, London Evening Standard and Daily Telegraph, and actions as a member of parliament and in cabinet;
       Tonypandy Riots in 1910.
       His actions during the General Strike in 1926.

       It is generally accepted that without his leadership leading up to and during WWII, Europe and the world would be a very different and likely far worse place, but there is a reason why the electorate turfed him out immediately following the war.
       • aerobubble 2.1.2.1

         31 March 2014 at 4:40 pm

         More French soldiers than any other nation died at Gallipoli.

         As for Churchill ‘failures’, sure he had them, what war leader doesn’t.

         I’m no expert on military history, yet I have always had the feeling that the allies didn’t want to break out for the same reason they chose it, to force Turkey to bring a large force home and keep the chance of pushing the allies off to a minimum. Its war, generals do weird things to keep the enemy off balance.

         Hitler and Stalin who had no moderating power structures around them.

         If you want disgraceful abuses of power by the British, Gallipoli ain’t it mate.

         Be thankful you were not Maori, for one related example.
         • aerobubble 2.1.2.1.1

           31 March 2014 at 4:43 pm

           Turkey kept its army at home, how contradictory.
     • DS 2.1.3

       28 March 2014 at 10:12 pm

       Churchill was a racist redbaiting imperialist arsehole who advocated for the use of poison gas in warfare, was pre-war fan of Mussolini, presided over Gallipoli, sabotaged the UK economy via going back on the gold standard, and whose treatment of India would make your hair turn white.

       He was right about one thing in his entire life. Fortunately that one thing mattered.
       • aerobubble 2.1.3.1

         1 April 2014 at 2:57 pm

         Churchill cigarette holder used to harm himself, Stalins pen used to sign millions to their death, or Hitlers Mein Kampf.
3. Bill 3

   28 March 2014 at 11:35 am

   I don’t see much point in criticising the Internet Party on the basis that it’s not ‘about New Zealanders’ What party is? Isn’t the national Party all about Key and his mates setting themselves up for a post parliament future? And isn’t that also the desire of a fair few in the Labour caucus?

   As for policy – care to point me to any ongoing raft of policies of any government from the past 30 years that has had the well being of New Zealander’s at it’s heart?

   And as for vision, well….the less said the better on that front.

   See, if the Internet Party has policy and vision problems, so do main players…and yet no-one sees too much of a problem there; it’s ‘just the way it is’. Meanwhile, if the Internet Party comes to be perceived, in the eyes of all those people who don’t vote, or who vote with deep cynicism and sense of resignation, as a foil to the decayed and cynical politics of parliament , then hey.
   • karol 3.1

     28 March 2014 at 11:49 am

     Eh? No visions from other main players?

     Mana Party kaupapa-vision: – admitedly also very centred on one personality originally.

     MANA, movement of the people, is Aotearoa’s newest political force, led by Hone Harawira, Independent MP for Tai Tokerau.

     MANA emerged from hui all over the country and from a competition to find a name that best describes the personal authority that people have to make our society one we can all be proud of, and the commitment it takes to make that happen.

     MANA is a concept that all New Zealanders are familiar with. MANA is the principle of independence recognised in Te Whakaputanga o Te Rangatiratanga o Nui Tireni.

     MANA embodies the principle of authority confirmed in Te Tiriti o Waitangi.

     MANA includes the principle of autonomy that is the driver behind Mana Motuhake. MANA comes from a deep and ongoing connection to the people of the Pacific. MANA embraces the personal responsibility we all have to contribute to society.

     MANA also speaks to the pride and dignity of workers who built this country into the special place that we all call home.

     more details follow at the link.

     Green Party vision:

     In our Vision, Aotearoa New Zealand is a place where people respect each other and the natural world we share. It is healthy, peaceful and richly diverse.

     We know our different histories and we are secure in our identity. Our way of living honours Te Tiriti o Waitangi.

     Our children, our elders, our families and our communities are at the centre of national life. Each person’s unique contribution is valued. Participation, justice and quality of life for all are valued over individual attainment of wealth.

     Our economic system enables people to meet their needs from the bounty of the earth, within nature’s limits. Indigenous ecosystems are restored and replenished.

     Life in our country is a celebration of diversity and creativity. All are able to participate meaningfully in decisions that affect our own and future generations. We recognise the rights and interests of those who cannot speak for themselves.

     These islands shine in the world for a tradition of ecological living, fair trade, human rights and peace.

     With lots of policies, values etc to support that vision.

     Labour also has a wide ranging set of principles and values.

     We can debate how well each party achieves their visions in practices, but they have a far more in depth and wide ranging vision than the Internet Party One Note.
     • Bill 3.1.1

       28 March 2014 at 12:27 pm

       To my mind, those read more as ‘Mission Statement’ tosh and ‘feel good’ wankery, and importantly – lies, than vision. I’d paraphrase or summarise with something along the lines of…. “within the current social and economic parameters which we accept as being more or less above question, we will endeavor to be nice and do nice stuff because we are nice and think it’s nice to be nice. Join us in our mission of niceness and make everything nice.”
       • karol 3.1.1.1

         28 March 2014 at 12:35 pm

         Oh – OK, but they are still backed up with more breadth and depth of polices. And have more of a relationship with left wing values than KDC.

         Their vision/mission does need to be realised in policies and practice, and, to some extent I think this is the case for the Greens and Mana.

         In contrast with the “mission” of the Internet Party, I just don’t see how you can come over more positive about it than parties with a stronger allegiance to the left, even though the latter are fairly centre/soft left.

         The IntP is all, we are pretty cool because we have state of the art digital aps, and some great audio-visuals, graphics and PR.
         • Bill 3.1.1.1.1

           28 March 2014 at 12:54 pm

           Well, my original comment on vision was really simply made in light of 30 odd years of neo-liberal roll-out, hence the ‘less said the better’ comment.

           Anyway, putting all the vision, or lack of, to one side, I’m not ‘more positive’ about The Internet Party. I’m just pointing out that in a country where parliamentary politics are reasonably seen as toxic, ridiculous and ‘out of touch’, that something like the Internet Party could get a fair amount of traction if it’s perceived as running somewhat counter to all of that.

           And that’s not so much about being positive about the Internet Party as it is an indictment of the state of the main political parties and the parliamentary system, and an acknowledgement of the lethargy and disconnected cynicism, that both parties and the parliamentary system, have engendered in the voting populace in recent years.
           • karol 3.1.1.1.1.1

             28 March 2014 at 1:15 pm

             Well Mana was at least trying to target the grass roots in practical ways, and to target disaffected voters. So far, it has been somewhat successful in supporting the state housing protests in Glen Innes and the feed the kids, with Bradford playing a significant role in the actions of Auckland Action Against Poverty. I set more store by such things than the IntP tryign to fast track a party set up.
             • Bill …

               28 March 2014 at 1:33 pm

               Yeah, but what you or I set more store by is kind of irrelevant.

               If the Internet Party gets adopted by a reasonable percentage of the numerous people who have a scant understanding of politics – scant to the extent they couldn’t really give you a working definition of left and right or would even look at you askance if you even mentioned the terms – if such people adopt the Internet Party on the basis that it’s a wee bit sexy and gives an air of being against bullshit that fucks people off…

               See, to such people, policy or underlying intent just doesn’t matter. Facile, vacuous, manufactured or what not, works just fine….shiney, shiney, sexy, sexy. And the votes roll in.

               And I’m not dissing such people here. All of the population has been deliberately dumbed down on political or other content and taught to respond to ‘packaging’. Fact is, the IP may just have the packaging down pat.

               edit – NRT on side bar. 500 members within 7 hours.
               • phillip ure …

                 28 March 2014 at 3:11 pm

                 pretty much plus 1 to everything bill said in that exchange..

                 ..(and seriously..!..Karol..!..u cite the labour party..?

                 ..didn’t they just can their previous bring the poorest families into working for families policy….?..by 2018..(!)..’cos it was ‘too costly’….?…a move that was cheered by many in labour..?..

                 ..and to criticise i.p on not having detailed policies yet..?..whoar..!

                 ..and i have gone and read the mission-statement/aspirational-bullshit on the i.p website..

                 ..and it is up there with the mission statement/aspirational bullshit u have cited..

                 ..a mana/ip alliance-lite has the possibility to galvanise many..(esp current non-voters..)

                 ..and that can only be good 4 ‘the left’…eh..?

                 ..and for the ultimate-goal of kicking these fuck-the-poor!/fuck the-environment! bastards out..

                 ..eh..?

                 ..it wd seem i.p is being held to standards not exhibited by those doing the holding..
               • bad12 …

                 28 March 2014 at 5:23 pm

                 Indeed Bill, look what the ‘worm’ appeared to do for Dunne…
         • nadis 3.1.1.1.2

           28 March 2014 at 1:00 pm

           The IP has no democratic values whatsoever.

           https://internet.org.nz/rules

           No AGM prior to the election.

           To get on the executive committee you must be nominated by 2 ordinary members but also one existing executive member.

           The party list is chosen by the executive committee, put to the membership for “consultation”. Then “having regard” to the ranked list provided by members the executive committee decide the final list at its”sole discretion”.

           If a member has a complaint, it goes to the Party Secretary who at his “sole discretion” can elect to take it to the executive committee or not. No rights of appeal.

           In the way every other political party in NZ (perhaps not NZ First?) understands them, there are no membership rights attached to membership in the Internet Party.

           This is clearly a vanity vehicle for Dot Com created purely for the purposes of creating an environment (maybe a Hone Harawira led government?) where his likely extradition is over ruled by the justice minister of the day.

           I question the democratic principles of anyone selling their services to this party and am surprised that otherwise principled people like the journalists and legal specialists hired by this party would be party to such an anti-democratic constitution. Whether you are left or right in NZ, all of the parties at least have structures in place to allow members a voice.

           Clear opportunity for Labour here to adopt the nice looking bits of DotComs platform as their core information/technology and eviscerate the rationale for the Internet Party.

           Also surprised at the “safe harbour” idea not being discussed more. To me the logic seems this could easily cover the mega styles of businesses, making extradition impossible as what dot com is being extradited for would no longer a crime in NZ, therefore failing one of the extradition tests.. He is dreaming.
           • Tracey 3.1.1.1.2.1

             28 March 2014 at 2:36 pm

             act has a board which can overall members.

             national has behind closed door process
           • bad12 3.1.1.1.2.2

             28 March 2014 at 5:20 pm

             Ha-ha-ha-ha, Anus,”a Hone Harawira led Government”, more than a few of us would be more than a little pleased with such a result,

             None of us tho are stupid enough to publish such stupidity…
   • veutoviper 3.2

     28 March 2014 at 11:51 am

     +1 Bill
4. Clemgeopin 4

   28 March 2014 at 11:50 am

   It would be great if the Internet Party is represented by at least a couple of members in the parliament. How this will be brought about is the billion dollar bit point.
5. Matthew Hooton 5

   28 March 2014 at 12:42 pm

   “So the Internet Party had a good launch short term, but its longer term problems with policy and vision remain.”

   “So Cunliffe’s leadership had a good launch short term, but his longer term problems with policy and vision remain.”
   • Skinny 5.1

     28 March 2014 at 12:56 pm

     I know the Internet Party is a good thing for Labour when you turn up howling Hooton. I might even add some weight by adding some policy myself and extracting some decent policy from a friend I had dinner last night with. A once headhunted man who was in the National candidate pool, ‘sponsored by Key’ back then in the bad old Brash days. What happened you may ask was the more he found out from the inside about National, the more he was repulsed. Wouldn’t surprise me if you and the DR met, as you would have been floating around in the back office promoting spin Matthew.
     • nadis 5.1.1

       28 March 2014 at 2:34 pm

       talkback radio, the standard…… you get around
       • Skinny 5.1.1.1

         28 March 2014 at 4:18 pm

         Oh shucks thanks I hope my little input adds interest? Getting amongst it at the coal face is where it’s at. Plenty talk it which is easy, very few walk the talk…how about you watcher?
   • Tracey 5.2

     28 March 2014 at 2:41 pm

     the key point to me is that dotcom is showing that if you want to be heard, if you have been treated badly in nz, you need millions to have a voice.

     same with justice. look at doug graham and his journey to tge supreme court, not a channel open to ordinary kiwis fucked over by bullies… like city councils and govt depts.

     money talks and it buys change.
   • Tracey 5.3

     28 March 2014 at 2:43 pm

     It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt…

     just because the herald puts it on p21 doesnt mean cunliffe has no economic policy. you know that but i am guessing you thought you were being funny. cos actively fucking over democracy is just a hobby for you.
     • phillip ure 5.3.1

       28 March 2014 at 3:29 pm

       tracey..imho this ‘boo-hoo!/poor-us!/the cruel-media’ bullshit from labour is just that..

       ..to hand they have the media-resources/access committed-activists cd only dream of..

       ..and they also have the platform of questiontime in parliament..

       ..(where they get to frame the questions..f.f.s..!..)

       ..if they are unable to use those tools to show how ‘different’ they are from the labour party we have come to know and be serially-dismayed by..

       ..they should fucken pack up and go home..

       ..eh..?

       ..i watch/comment on q-time..

       ..and in the main..it is a new-idea free zone..

       ..largely just dancing on the heads of pins/playing one-upmanship ‘games’..

       ..are labour scared others will ‘pinch’ their policies..?

       ..are they really playing it that old-skool..?

       ..and just out of curiousity..

       ..(are you a labour insider..?..)..if so..any ideas on their replacement for the ‘too expensive’ bringing of the poorest families into working for families..?

       ..by 2018..?

       ..is pushing that date further out an option being considered..

       ..maybe to 2025..?

       ..(that’ll get them off the sofas..and out to the polling-booths..to vote labour..

       ..that missing-million voters..eh..?..)
6. Lanthanide 6

   28 March 2014 at 12:42 pm

   And it wants to use its technical expertise to fix Novopay. Fixing Novopay at a technical level is what you do when you’re running to be the Education Ministry’s IT guru, not running to be in Parliament.

   Yes, but I don’t doubt that KDC and his backers could come up with a proper pay system that works as intended. It may not be as cheap as the ministry is willing to pay, though.

   The point is that the ministry never put the tender out into the public arena, it would have been done using the usual procurement and oversight process – which clearly has utterly failed in this case. With such an important system affecting so many individuals lives, the argument can be made that actually it is in the public’s interest to be able to vote on who gets to fulfil the contract.
   • Roflcopter 6.1

     28 March 2014 at 1:20 pm

     The point is that the ministry never put the tender out into the public arena, it would have been done using the usual procurement and oversight process – which clearly has utterly failed in this case. With such an important system affecting so many individuals lives, the argument can be made that actually it is in the public’s interest to be able to vote on who gets to fulfil the contract.

     Maybe you should ask Chris Hipkins why it was done this way?
7. Skinny 7

   28 March 2014 at 1:15 pm

   I for one am absolutely delighted the Internet Party is finally that much closer to becoming a political party. All be it a less than democratic outfit this term, however they will do what many other party’s won’t be able to do, and that is bring out the vote from people who couldn’t be bothered with the current choices on offer. This pretty much seals Key-National fate of being beaten comprehensively on 20th September.

   Just watching things unfold thru social media, it’s outstanding the amount of previous non voters that are coming out in cyber space to endorse they will be voting for Dotcom’s party. All the candidate votes in tight seats Labour will pick up. The Greens will be be rightfully disappointed to not gain some of these voters, however I doubt they will lose too many if any votes to the IP.

   Jolly good stuff!
   • Chooky 7.1

     28 March 2014 at 3:55 pm

     +100…agreed the internet party could be a game changer and bring out many young voters who would not vote otherwise…and once a voter then maybe a future voter
8. Tracey 8

   28 March 2014 at 2:39 pm

   the key point to me is that dotcom is showing that if you want to be heard, if you have been treated badly in nz, you need millions to have a voice.

   same with justice. look at doug graham and his journey to tge supreme court, not a channel open to ordinary kiwis fucked over by bullies… like city councils and govt depts.

   money talks and it buys change.
   • ianmac 8.1

     28 March 2014 at 2:46 pm

     I wonder if some signed up with the IP because they despised the apparent dirty tricks engineered by Whaleoil and the National Party. How else could they protest in the short term?
   • Pete George 8.2

     28 March 2014 at 2:56 pm

     That’s a major (political and media) problem without any obvious solutions. Dotcom and Colin Craig manage get the media flocking to give them attention.

     Parties like the Alliance, Focus NZ (registered in January) and the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party (who promote an issue that’s getting a lot of attention elsewhere in the world) are ignored. Even Mana get ignored most of the time – until they are connected to someone who throws money around.

     Will it ever be possible to get a democratic political movement of the people where money doesn’t matter, or at least is not the driving force?
     • karol 8.2.1

       28 March 2014 at 3:01 pm

       As Sue Bradford has tweeted – it takes time to build a real movement:

       To left friends, re proposed Mana/Dotcom alliance: there is no shortcut to building a genuine movement of the people. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/239630/mana-looking-at-links-with-dotcom-party …

       Instant publicity doesn’t ensure a party will stand the test of time.
       • phillip ure 8.2.1.1

         28 March 2014 at 3:39 pm

         well..karol..re that ‘time to build a movement’..

         ..it’s been how many years..?

         ..and mana r polling at what..?

         ..after all this ‘time’..and with this result…

         ..’shortcuts’ to grab the public attention/conciousness as to what mana actually stands for..

         ..and how it is a (visionary) party for all..that will benefit all..

         ..kinda appeals to me..

         ..how could it not..?

         ..and isn’t doing the same thing over and over again..and expecting different results/outcomes..?

         ..isn’t that cited by some as a sign of madness..?

         ..(and i will repost my prediction of a party vote jump for mana in the polls..

         ..and it’s been how long since that happened..?..)
         • Chooky 8.2.1.1.1

           28 March 2014 at 3:58 pm

           +100 philip ure…short cuts are appealing unless you are a Calvinist and like long term punishment and slog…we live in a postmodernist world and the old black /white distinctions no longer exist….old socialism needs a bit of titivating imo
           • karol 8.2.1.1.1.1

             28 March 2014 at 5:37 pm

             Agreed that socialism needs to be continually reworked to adapt to changing circumstances.

             However, there is not short cut to developing a party or movement, whether it’s done through digital aps and connectivity, via older technologies or face-to-face. It requires time to build the relationships, the narratives and the understanding of the issues.

             I agree KDC is ahead of the game with politcal aps. But that on its own does not build a party or movement.

             I love what various technologies can do. But over time I’ve learned to be sceptical about the (overly deterministic) enthusiasms for each new technology – technologies are only as good as the people that use them.
             • Chooky …

               28 March 2014 at 6:08 pm

               @ karol….well i would have agreed with you wholeheartedly before kids ….and I certainly have reservations about the technological world we now find ourselves in…(because it taints everything and pulls the wool over everyone’s eyes…the corporates use it big time to sell ‘shit’ which undermines health and well being and a democratic society in the pursuit of their profits )

               ….but teenagers and twenties are embedded in this media and internet technology driven world …it is not the real world to us….but it is to them …and the last thing they are thinking about is developing a party or a movement…as I say they are embedded in another world of appearances, games, shape shifting, hedonism , media savvy

               …superficial yes….but real ?….yes also …and it cant be ignored…the best that can happen is that they are seduced into politics by latching on to something which is important to their world…..Dotcom and what he represents is a flag to their world…imo
               • karol …

                 28 March 2014 at 6:26 pm

                 chooky, I have taught many young people. Many/most are immersed in the technologies, but they actually have varying degrees of interest in and capability with such technologies. And it doesn’t necessarily mean they are politically illiterate one way or the other.

                 And I have also known a few people closer to my age that are all for internet technology, social media – geeks, etc.

                 I do agree that the IntParty will attract many who are not usually into politics. I suspect that the ones that will stay politically engaged will be the minority. And, even less will be very much on the left.

                 I would love to be proved wrong – but I have seen too many false dawns. And I have also seen too many young people, generation after generation, that seem pretty savvy and rebellious, to later become very MOR once they get beyond the youth culture peer groups.

                 I prefer to look at the pros and cons, and not get too excited about the latest shiny thing.
       • tinfoilhat 8.2.1.2

         28 March 2014 at 4:10 pm

         Not only will the Dotcom party not stand the test of time I’m prepared to bet it won’t even rate a mention in terms of gaining votes.

         If those of us on the political left spent less time chasing rotund german rainbows and more time promoting the Green or Mana or even labour policies or just talking to the unengaged voters we’d improve our chances far more than hanging around KDC.
         • phillip ure 8.2.1.2.1

           28 March 2014 at 4:58 pm

           what exactly r u prepared to ‘bet’ there..?..tfh..?

           ..a keith locke-stylings naked-walk thru urban centre..?

           ..and how can you so ignore previous winds/waves of change..?

           ..what was the first labour govt..?

           ..if not that..?

           ..it has been long cited/observed that ‘change is of the few constants’..eh..?

           ..and we need to get off this neo-lib/rand-ite/fuck-the-poor/environment road we are currently on..eh..?..for the last 30 yrs..

           ..and there is a roundabout just up ahead..

           ..with some lovely looking exit-options..

           ..and the internet party sign seems to be clustered in most of those ‘lovely’ ones..

           ..along with those other signs you cite..
           • tinfoilhat 8.2.1.2.1.1

             28 March 2014 at 5:04 pm

             Hi Phil

             Not a betting person but would wager a hundred if i was.

             “..and we need to get off this neo-lib/rand-ite/fuck-the-poor/environment road we are currently on..eh..?..for the last 30 yrs..”

             I agree with that but I strongly disagree that KDC is the vehicle for that in fact you couldn’t get a more skewed poster boy if you tried.
             • phillip ure …

               28 March 2014 at 5:14 pm

               well tfh..if the left is currently looking at/entertaining the idea of ..

               ..’skewed poster boy’ benchmark winston peters..

               ..as someone to climb into bed with..

               ..pray tell how dotcom/internet party is/cd be worse than that possible outcome..?

               ..(shudder..!..)
               • tinfoilhat …

                 28 March 2014 at 5:19 pm

                 Good point phil, very good point indeed.
         • Tracey 8.2.1.2.2

           28 March 2014 at 5:04 pm

           you do understand that it is the media chasing and promoting the 0% parties like dotcom, colin craig, dunne, banks…
           • tinfoilhat 8.2.1.2.2.1

             28 March 2014 at 5:18 pm

             You do also understand that KDC is hardly a shrinking violet when it comes to the media ?
     • Tracey 8.2.2

       28 March 2014 at 3:02 pm

       not until we have an independent media that does not owe its jobs to ratings and shareholders.

       get rid of published polls in election year or full stop might be a useful start.
       • Pete George 8.2.2.1

         28 March 2014 at 3:10 pm

         I think the influence of media is a major and under-addressed issue. We now have journalists with egos and ambitions that rival those of politicians.

         At least party members and voters have some means of holding politicians to account. Media can have a significant, unfettered and undemocratic influence on political decisions, careers and elections. They are an essential part of the democratic process but their power has grown too much.
         • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.2.1.1

           28 March 2014 at 3:13 pm

           Yes, and whatever you do don’t acknowledge or examine the deliberate complicity of right wing politicians in said undemocratic influence. Pretend both sides are the same. That’s what banal weasels fact checkers do.
         • Tracey 8.2.2.1.2

           28 March 2014 at 3:58 pm

           and who go into and from jobs for prime ministers.

           we need to shine the light into more dark places and some of our pollies have to have the courage to do it.

           dunne gave a shit about privacy when his was threatened but not before and not since
     • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.3

       28 March 2014 at 3:04 pm

       Oh fuck off, you pox ridden weasel. There already are political movements in NZ for whom money is not the driving force. How typical of your passive aggressive dishonesty that you would pretend otherwise.

       What an asshole.
9. shorts 9

   28 March 2014 at 3:35 pm

   I grabbed the app, pretty simple and effective means to engage and recruit those whom actually live in this century – Green and Labour signups whilst able to do so online do reek of “simpler” times

   as for the internet party itself, I don’t know why anyone but those paid to write about such things give it much time nor credit as you just can’t take it seriously – unless on the payroll I presume
10. Glenn 10

    28 March 2014 at 6:57 pm

    The IP is already like a breath of fresh air through the stale atmosphere of NZ politics. All power to them. My 91 year old Mum a fanatical National supporter and J K worshiper was fair ranting and raving about Kim today. She has sneered at Labour and the Greens efforts for many months but the emergence of an Internet Party is worrying her. I suspect it may be worrying many of the Nat hierarchy.
    The over the top negative reaction from the media is an indication of this.

    None of the mainstream parties have got a snowballs chance in hell of picking up the votes of the disenfranchised hard corp, the politically illiterate and the ignored who won’t vote or can’t be bothered to however the IP (hopefully with Mana) could possibly capture a big part of this group. They have the internet which has been woefully underused by the existing parties, they will have the money courtesy of Mr Dotcom and the motivation which has largely been provided by the nats, the media and the underlying anger that is boiling under the surface of much of this community.

    The left needs a game changer otherwise I fear we may be stuck with another couple of terms of Nat rule. Maybe the Game Changer has arrived.
11. DS 11

    28 March 2014 at 10:18 pm

    I see the Internet Party becoming New Zealand’s version of the Pirate Parties of Europe: a single obsession tech-savvy party who are successful at hoovering the protest vote.
12. millsy 12

    28 March 2014 at 11:38 pm

    So much negativity around here.

    Personally I am excited about the IP. KDC really isnt any worse than any of the other businessmen/public figures around. Slug boy and his boyfriend point to his German heritage and possible Nazi symptahies (I am waiting for them to photoshop him with a pickelhaube and a blood dripping sabre while they are at it), but they tend to forget that their beloved National have their collective noses so far up rich Chinese arses they are barely able to breathe.

    A real alternative to the main parties. A vision for the 21st century, one based on a high tech economy rather than selling each other houses to rent out to poor people and selling milk and butter to Chinese (who will probably learn to make it themselves on the vast Siberian steppes with the Russians), and the rolling out of internet services to all corners of the country, which will transform our economy like never before.

    And the level of snooping an surveillance really needs to be looked at. From cameras in the streets, to lax privacy in government departments and businesses, sniffer dogs at schools, drug testing at work, prying, snooping, monitoring, checking, someone needs to draw the line.

    Technology is the future. It has brought nations closer, and has given people more access to information than ever before.

    Good luck Dotcom and the Internet Party. You have my vote.
13. millsy 13

    28 March 2014 at 11:40 pm

    And Sue Bradford’s crying about a IP/Mana alliance behooves me. Of all people, she should know that it is the poorest who are hit the hardest with Big Brother prying into their personal lives. She should embrace this partnetship, not spurn it.
14. Clemgeopin 14

    28 March 2014 at 11:54 pm

    I am a little torn! How I wish I had two party votes. I would have happily given one of them to the IT party.
15. millsy 15

    29 March 2014 at 12:05 am

    Membership $1.29 for 3 years is pretty cheap too, compared with:

    Labour: $20 (wages) $5 (unwaged)
    National: $30
    Greens: $15
    NZ First: $10
    ACT: $20 (thought it would be higher)
    Conservatives: $10 ($2 for unwaged)
    United Future: $5
    Mana: $5

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