Prepare for another delay on that brighter future

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1. Colonial Viper 1

   19 January 2012 at 8:27 am

   1) I’m amazed they are factoring in world growth at 2.5%. That seems high. It must rely completely on the BRICS countries. And China in particular has serious problems there. If the number was based on OECD countries only I suspect it would be 2% or less. Australia is now seriously slowing down.8How do countries (and individuals) pay back debt costing them between 3% pa (NZ) and 7% pa (Greece) relying on 2% pa growth?

   That’s right, they can’t. The world’s debt based private money system is going down the tubes.

   2) Never mind Key and English; Peter Dunne is in power and will save the day.
2. vto 2

   19 January 2012 at 8:51 am

   Look, you silly eggs, listening to the World Bank’s projections on world growth is like listening to a real estate agent’s view on the housing market.

   The World Bank is in the business of growth. Without it they cannot survive so of course they are gong to spruik the situation. As always, follow the money.

   They have no credibility.

   btw, imo there aint no growth at the moment. Anywhere. They deceive.
   • Colonial Viper 2.1

     19 January 2012 at 9:04 am

     Yep. And both the World bank and the IMF are technically insolvent themselves. As are many of their member contributing/funding states.
     • Janice 2.1.1

       19 January 2012 at 10:36 am

       Yes and we have just borrowed from overseas banks (I presume as we haven’t much spare money ourselves from government accounts) $87 million to pay our “share” to the IMF to help bail out Greece. Presumably this money will then be paid back by Greece to the overseas banks and we will be stuck with the interest payments. Nice way to keep the money go round going and spread the rot.
     • Fotran 2.1.2

       19 January 2012 at 1:58 pm

       CV

       Yes, they are insolvent, but I bet they have enough money left to pay themselves
   • King Kong 2.2

     19 January 2012 at 9:20 am

     Must take a fair bit of time and money monitoring the economic indicators and researching the growth potentials for every country in the world VTO.

     I trust that you carried out at least a little bit of research rather than just plucking that statement out of your arse.

     Maybe just a hint of irony with the references to credibility?
     • Colonial Viper 2.2.1

       19 January 2012 at 9:38 am

       Go back to primary school mate. We’re trying to have a serious conversation here.
     • vto 2.2.2

       19 January 2012 at 10:38 am

       Follow the money Little Kong. Surely you can see the conflict inherent in the World Bank commenting on world finances. I mean, would you believe everything a real estate agent would tell you about a house and the market if you were considering the purchase of the house being sold by that agent?

       It is a very simple matter and principle that has been applicable to near all human actions ever since humans sarted actioning.
   • Jenny 2.3

     19 January 2012 at 9:28 am

     World debt at over 200 times the size of total world GDP, is the biggest financial bubble of all time.

     The only question is, when will it burst?

     Meanwhile, back in Godzone, in the public discourse on the economy, at least one mainstream political party is putting all hope on “growing the pie”.

     How can Paul Shearer believe in this myth? When all his advisers, if they are worth their salt, will be giving him the real picture.
     • just saying 2.3.1

       19 January 2012 at 2:24 pm

       Does anyone know who Shearer’s advisor’s are?
3. dan hansen 3

   19 January 2012 at 9:40 am

   “World debt at over 200 times the size of total world GDP, is the biggest financial bubble of all time”

   The fact you believe that is a good example of how economically ilterate some of the left are…
   • Colonial Viper 3.1

     19 January 2012 at 9:43 am

     She’s counting unrealised derivative liabilities as well as other off balance sheet liabilities.

     I personally think her estimate is a tad high but by less than an order of magnitude. The point remains the same. The world has now accumulated more debt than future economic production and labour can ever pay back.

     And one of the oldest rule of finance: debts which cannot be paid back. Will not be paid back.
     • dan hansen 3.1.1

       19 January 2012 at 9:52 am

       No shes not – she has taken the true figure of 200%, mis read it and written 200x (see below link under 3rd chart)

       …and not had the ability or underlying sense to figure out its no way that its 200 x.

       http://www.zerohedge.com/article/total-global-debt-has-double-over-200-trillion-2020-preserve-economic-growth

       As an aside i highly doubt the unreleased derivatives at 200x global GDP – i suspect its more in the order of 10x…

       EDIT: shock horror the answer (deviatives as % of GDP) is roughly 10x not 200x http://www.wilmott.com/blogs/satyajitdas/index.cfm/2011/1/24/Derivative-Regulation-Dances–Part-1
       • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1

         19 January 2012 at 10:09 am

         The true figure is NOT 2x global GDP!!!

         Sorry mate I already noted that she has used too high a number. But your wilmott link uses a 2008/09 numbers which do not include the full impact of QE and other shadow banking system loans from the Fed.

         And it doesn’t take into account the hyper-rehypothecation scam.

         In other words, whether you argue that total potential liabilities sit at 10x, 20x or 30x global GDP, you are merely arguing whether the Titanic is sinking in one hour, two hours or three.
         • vto 3.1.1.1.1

           19 January 2012 at 10:33 am

           Wha’s the “the hyper-rehypothecation scam”?
           • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.1.1

             19 January 2012 at 10:59 am

             http://www.zerohedge.com/news/kyle-bass-rehypothecation-and-other-keynesian-endgame-scenarios

             Imagine you get a mortgage to buy a home. Your home is treated as collateral by the bank. If you default on your mortgage payments the bank can hypothetically take possession of your house and make good on their loan to you.

             Now imagine if the collateral that your house represents was then used as collateral itself by the bank, to secure loans and leverage for itself. After all, both your promises to pay the bank back its loan over time backed by the underlying collateral of the house can be considered safe assets which the bank can choose to leverage off (get credit from) other financial institutions with.

             Now imagine if those other financial institutions, having been promised your house as collateral if your bank ever goes bad on that credit they have been given, decides to use that promised collateral as collateral themselves to gain further leverage into the financial system.

             And so on.

             The end effect is tens of millions of dollars worth of debt and potential derivative liabilites, hypothetically secured by a collateral chain which ends up back at your $400K house.

             Here’s the bad news. When things go wrong, and everyone suddenly becomes very interested in collecting down the chain for their collateral. But finds that there is fuck all there to offset total realised liabilities because the leverage on a single piece of collateral – your home – as become as near to infinite as makes no difference.
             • foreign waka …

               28 January 2012 at 2:58 pm

               It is called a pyramid scam.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 28 January 2012 at 3:13 pm

                 Yep = ponzi scheme. Most of the world’s GDP is no longer anything to do with actual “wealth creation”, its a money funneling scam.
         • mik e 3.1.1.1.2

           20 January 2012 at 10:19 pm

           The derivative food and commodity market is due to collapse soon like every other economic bubble has burst.
       • Jenny 3.1.1.2

         20 January 2012 at 7:07 am

         ….she has taken the true figure of 200%, mis read it and written 200x (see below link under 3rd chart)

         dan hansen

         Oops, I meant to type 20x.

         I was suffering from shock.

         My only excuse is that my mind had boggled at reading this figure, and in my panic my fingers typed the conflated figure.

         Sorry for that, my weakness is, that occasionally I suffer from panic attacks. And this time I was deeply shocked and truly alarmed at the enormity of the problem.

         Thank you Dan for correcting my error.

         My apologies to everyone.
   • prism 3.2

     19 January 2012 at 10:28 am

     dan hansen
     ““World debt at over 200 times the size of total world GDP, is the biggest financial bubble of all time”
     The fact you believe that is a good example of how economically ilterate some of the left are…”

     And the fact that you are just questioning and deriding the figures produced is a good example of how uninterested you are in how bad the real figures and real situation is through malicious and unscrupulous manipulation of the financial system. You don’t care though. You will still be arguing about the level of disaster – whether it’s a grade one or ten – when it arrives in its full entirety to wipe out most of the personal prosperity relying on this system.
4. Jenny 4

   19 January 2012 at 9:44 am

   As the world economy contracts. Instead of aspirational talk about growing the pie. Shearer should be preparing our side for the coming recession.

   No more bail outs for the rich.

   Bailing out all our children in poverty already.

   Removing GST off all food.

   Reversing the Nats increase in GST.

   Bring in a FTA to catch the financial speculators who are running our economy over a cliff.

   Increase the top tax take for those living in absolute overabundance while many are facing absolute ruin.
   • John D 4.1

     19 January 2012 at 10:40 am

     There was an interesting interview on Stratos a while back with the President (or PM?) of Iceland. When they defaulted they didn’t bail out the banks and all the private investors took a haircut.

     The main thing is that they got the IMF off their back, and are still living as a free country (unlike Greece and Italy who have their puppet leaders installed by the banks)

     I think there are some laws around non-government bailouts of banks in NZ. Mind you it didn’t stop SCF or those dodgy finance companies.
     • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

       19 January 2012 at 10:50 am

       You”re facts on the NZ situation are a bit out. Labour introduced legislation backstopping the banks in the immediate aftermath of the GFC.

       Problem was that National mismanaged the process and cost the tax payer over a billion dollars by backstopping SCF speculators and scammers.
     • Jenny 4.1.2

       20 January 2012 at 6:43 am

       The reason democracy in Greece and Italy has been suspended, is because the people were calling on their respective democratically elected leaders to do an Iceland as well.

       In Greece the bankers (and the CIA) also spread threats and rumours of an armed military coup if the bankers didn’t get their way.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.2

     19 January 2012 at 11:01 am

     Shearer should be preparing our side for the coming recession.

     This is what Shearer and all politicians should be looking at. Won’t happen though as they’re all too tied into the delusional growth meme needed to maintain capitalism.
     • Colonial Viper 4.2.1

       19 January 2012 at 11:17 am

       And its not a coming “recession”. The term indicates a regular down business cycle expected to pick up again in a year or two.

       This is our entry into a Great Depression. For tens of millions of Americans and millions of Irish, Greeks and Spanish its already started.

       And since asset/debt deflation driven Depressions tend to continue on for 10-20 years (we are about 4 years into that now), by the time we have a chance of coming out of it – energy depletion will be severe.

       My pick – there will be no net economic growth per capita for a generational time span.

       Our economic world is no longer driven by business cycles. A major secular change is playing out before our eyes. I ask you – what does a world economy labouring under peak oil look like. And I answer you in turn: just look around.
5. blue leopard 5

   19 January 2012 at 11:19 am

   Draco T Bastard,

   Is there an alternative to the delusional growth meme? I’d like to know more. Any good links you recommend?
   • Draco T Bastard 5.1

     19 January 2012 at 11:29 am

     Try reading the link I posted but generally speaking we’d need:

     1.) Zero population growth
     2.) A good estimation of the carrying capacity of the country (How much resources per time period we actually have available)
     3.) No interest rates (They’re the main driver of growth)
     4.) Democratically distributed resources
     • John D 5.1.1

       19 January 2012 at 1:10 pm

       Don’t we already have zero population growth? (Excluding immigration)

       I thought NZ was one of the few western countries where we are breeding at replacement rate. Most European countries are breeding at less than replacement rate.
       • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1

         19 January 2012 at 2:04 pm

         Why do you exclude immigrants. Do they not use land water and food. Seriously you should check out the Stats projections out to 2028 and 2031.
         • John D 5.1.1.1.1

           19 January 2012 at 2:36 pm

           “Why do I exclude immigrants”. Because I am referring to the birthrate.
           I am referring to the replacement rate of the current population.

           Sure, we can stop immigration and maintain a steady state economy. Go for it.
   • Colonial Viper 5.2

     19 January 2012 at 11:36 am

     http://steadystate.org/

     Static state economy. Impossible in a debt based capitalist system where continuous interest charges on money lent into existence demands ongoing growth to pay it back. Without growth in such a system – massive debt burdens arise and loans become unrepayable.
     • Peter 5.2.1

       19 January 2012 at 3:39 pm

       Not quite. I think too many people assume that the debt-based / interest-bearing money system is axiomatic, and that some giant revolution is necessary to change it. It’s not – we lend money at interest and create debt simply because for 400 years, it worked!

       Each year, more energy was extracted from the earth than the year before, allowing the debts, with very few exceptions, to be repaid, or at least serviced acceptably. As the world’s energy supply runs down, back to renewable levels, the financial system, or the “tertiary economy” to borrow a term, will adapt.

       That adaptation will happen, it’s just whether it happens in a humane way or not that is my key question.
6. Robert Atack 6

   19 January 2012 at 11:24 am

   All bodes well for the future of the Labour/Green ponzi savings scam doesn’t it?
7. Bill 7

   19 January 2012 at 11:47 am

   I sometimes wonder what ‘brighter future’ it is that people envisage under a continuation of trade dictated by market principles. There is no brighter future down that particular route, is there?

   Correct me if I’m wrong, but the market’s profit motive trumps environmental concerns such as climate collapse and whatever other negative environmental consequences economic growth ‘gifts’ to us.

   And as workers and consumers the economic chains that bind us to this screeching train wreck of an economic system are gouging and debilitating us. The days of supposed personal advancement through a general increase in material well being are gone. Now-a-days, success is reasonably viewed as an ability to tread water.

   Should we really lament this possible slow passing of such a state of affairs? Is it in any way useful or empowering to hark on about the supposed financial mis-management of a hopeless situation and yearn for a brighter future from what is, as said above, a screeching train wreck?

   Surely any ‘brighter future’ comes after the wreckage has come to rest…although I can’t see how ‘brighter’ flows from societies that have been laid to waste.

   Perhaps more realistically, a brighter future comes through seeking and formulating strategies whereby we can, individually and collectively, extracate ourselves from this tumbling morass. And realistically, that cannot involve any forlorn appeal to existing centers of authority and power. Their continuation is, afterall, necessarily and inexorably bound to the status quo or some slight variation there of. So much so, that where once power was secured by keeping people mollified through increased materialism, power will be secured through increasingly repressive means. And the same screeching, tumbling economic wreckage will continue to unfold, all the while ejecting ever greater numbers of us from it’s confines (even as we cling ever tighter and fearfully to it’s edges) into a wider, unresourced and unorganised world of uncertainties and insecurities.

   So there it is. Maybe we should simply place our faith in a new configuration of the same powers espousing essentially the same values and holding the same goals as the ones we are increasingly disenchanted with and wait for the ‘good times’ to roll again?
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     19 January 2012 at 11:55 am

     The down side of the future is a potential return to an oppressive feudalism.

     There is still a chance for Greer’s “eco-tecnic future” to come about.

     Correct me if I’m wrong, but the market’s profit motive trumps environmental concerns such as climate collapse and whatever other negative environmental consequences economic growth ‘gifts’ to us.

     Its worse when major shareholders are foreign, ten thousand miles away, and who will never see the waterways which are clogged up with pollution and our communities falling into poverty because of capital extraction and expatriation.
     • prism 7.1.1

       19 January 2012 at 12:15 pm

       The Nigerians set themselves on fire spectacularly trying to siphon off a bit of the oil natural resource their area produces, in lieu of any worthwhile monetary value returning to them. At present we in NZ are not reduced to that dangerous expediency but farmers are having stock regularly siphoned off their large holdings, and some of these are owned by overseas interests.

       There are probably no go areas on some farms where there is marijuana growing and man traps to protect it. Just not as much publicity about farm problems as comes when people are killed and injured on the roads, safer news to report.
     • Bill 7.1.2

       19 January 2012 at 2:32 pm

       I don’t buy into the ‘foreign shareholders bad’ argument. I mean, are you suggesting (for example) that NZ owned paper mills gave a flying monkey’s about the state of the rivers any more or less than if they had been owned by foreigners?

       People are people. And people seeking returns from market driven modes of production and distribution are bound by the same market rules, regardless of their or their businesses location.

       Have any business types anywhere, bar a damned few, given much of a toss about people falling into poverty? Isn’t it the disparity between the wealthy and the poor that motivates some in the first place and that retrospectively justifies their actions in many cases? (The supposed necessity of their activities/actions given the threat of potential poverty?)
       • Peter 7.1.2.1

         19 January 2012 at 3:44 pm

         There is actually a strong case to be made for foreign owners actually improving on kiwi management, due to either having more capital to improve on business practices, or simply, just caring more.

         The large dairy farm in the Maniototo at Patearoa is a case in point. Since being bought by Harvard University’s endowment fund, it has seriously improved its environmental performance.
         • insider 7.1.2.1.1

           19 January 2012 at 4:52 pm

           US companies IME like to do things the same way. If US law says X is the standard then that becomes the standard globally. Seems to be a risk management issue around litigation. That can bring a range of improved standards quickly into our market that we’d take years to develop. On the negative side it can be very burdensome in terms of compliance cost to impose global systems locally just because of scale issues – hammer to crack nut.
           • Bill 7.1.2.1.1.1

             19 January 2012 at 5:51 pm

             If US law says X is the standard then that becomes the standard globally.

             Uh-huh. So no US firm would deny the right of workers to bargain collectively?
             No US firm would tacitly support the killing of unionists?
             No US firm would attempt to circumvent any country’s environmental legislation?
             No US firm would knowingly produce any harmful product anywhere or distribute said product anywhere?
             No US firm would conspire to overthrow any country’s democratically elected government?
             And so on?

             ‘Cause them’s all comprised of law abiding ‘good guys’?
             • Colonial Viper …

               19 January 2012 at 6:10 pm

               Bhopal. Union Carbide.
8. randal 8

   19 January 2012 at 11:59 am

   yes nz is still an areaof recent settlement and the coupon clippers dont give a stuff as long as the limo is there to take them out to the ritz for morning tea.
   in the immortal words of alfred e neuman….yetccccch.
   • prism 8.1

     19 January 2012 at 12:08 pm

     We could do with an Alfred E.N. commenting frequently on lif in New Ziland.
     • ropata 8.1.1

       28 January 2012 at 3:17 pm

       John Key seems to be doing a damned good impersonation of the eponymous Alfred
9. prism 9

   19 January 2012 at 12:06 pm

   Lunchtime quote from World Bank economist Luke Riordan? that the ‘contagion’ from the European economic difficulties could lead to recession. No mention of the USA – everything that’s bad in our world economy now is connected only with Europe if you listen to the commontaters – potato heads all.
   • Colonial Viper 9.1

     19 January 2012 at 12:15 pm

     Japan is going under before long. Europe this year – Japan year after next?
     • prism 9.1.1

       19 January 2012 at 12:18 pm

       Surely not Japan – they are well known savers and if we only saved we and our economy would be marching into a bright future together?
       • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1

         19 January 2012 at 6:15 pm

         Quite correct. And that savings mentality is why the Japanese govt can still afford to operate at a debt to GDP level of 200%.

         HOWEVER they are now in a situation where approximately 49% of every tax dollar they obtain is spent in debt servicing.

         If Japan’s rate of borrowing goes up from 2% to 4%…its sayonara.
10. james 111 10

    19 January 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Yes its tough times all right ,and im sure everyone is glad we have a fiscally prudent Government in control. One that knows how to pull us out of the bad times . Versus one that just wastefully Consumes money as fast as it comes in. I think most people would back a Government with people in its ranks with considerable business skills , versus a would be government that is full of Teachers ,accademics ,and ex union delegates
    • vto 10.1

      19 January 2012 at 1:41 pm

      What business skills does John Key have? I don’t recall he has ever owned a business, let alone created one from scratch. None.

      Bill English? None.

      Gerry Brownlee? School teacher. None.

      Nick Smith? None.

      David Carter? Well, considerable inherited wealth and capital movement skills I suppose, but they are very different from business skills.

      Steven Joyce? Perhaps, although look at what that led to…. dodgy taxpayer favouritism loan to the people who bought his business. Not good.

      What experience have these people got in “pulling themselves out of the bad times”? Perhaps you could be more specific. Or just continue to waste time and space.
      • John D 10.1.1

        19 January 2012 at 2:02 pm

        If they were successful in business they wouldn’t be in politics
        • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1

          19 January 2012 at 2:05 pm

          In the modern kleptocracy, politics is just an extension of doing corporate business.
          • John D 10.1.1.1.1

            19 January 2012 at 2:12 pm

            I tend to agree with that CV
      • insider 10.1.2

        19 January 2012 at 3:27 pm

        ” John Key have? I don’t recall he has ever owned a business, let alone created one from scratch.”

        So you have to start or own a business is the rule of business man definitions? So all those CEOs/GMs/MDs etc are basically irrelevant is what you are saying…not qualified as a ‘Businessman”. BTW KEy owns a vineyard, so miraculously now passes your test.

        “David Carter? Well, considerable inherited wealth and capital movement skills I suppose, but they are very different from business skills. ”

        Carter started his own company to do with artificial insemination/embryo transplant in cattle. Last I heard farming was a business too. Maybe do some research rather than doing off the top of your head?

        “Steven Joyce? Perhaps,… ”

        Perhaps? he started it. He owned it. He ran it. What will it take to get a qualification from the VTO school of Business?
        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.2.1

          19 January 2012 at 7:46 pm

          So all those CEOs/GMs/MDs etc are basically irrelevant is what you are saying…

          Yep but for different reasons. Those CEOs, GMs and MDs are no better connected to reality than is National and Act.
        • felix 10.1.2.2

          20 January 2012 at 12:26 am

          “So all those CEOs/GMs/MDs etc are basically irrelevant is what you are saying…not qualified as a ‘Businessman”.”

          Yes, in this context. Most are entirely unconnected with running or owning the business they work for.

          “BTW KEy owns a vineyard, so miraculously now passes your test.”

          Really insider? How on earth could you possibly know what Key owns?
          • Colonial Viper 10.1.2.2.1

            20 January 2012 at 1:15 am

            A businessman puts his own money on the line.

            Whereas Key made his fortune gambling with other people’s money.

            John Key is roughly as much a businessman as an able card dealer at the casino.

            And now, Key’s just a capitalist owner. If he does own shares in a vineyard – so what. He doesn’t do any of the hiring and firing, he doesn’t have to get up in the middle of the night to check on the frost, he doesn’t have to negotiate contracts with the big wineries.

            He simply owns, while actual workers get on with doing all of that boring tedious stuff.
          • Jum 10.1.2.2.2

            20 January 2012 at 8:11 am

            Felix,

            ‘“BTW KEy owns a vineyard, so miraculously now passes your test.”

            Really insider? How on earth could you possibly know what Key owns?’

            LOLZ.

            His name is ‘insider’ Felix. Nod, nod, wink, wink.
            Key “I have a blind trust”. (crosses fingers behind his back and the nose grows ever longer…)
          • Hami Shearlie 10.1.2.2.3

            20 January 2012 at 8:55 am

            Maybe this information should be passed on to John-John – he claims not to know what he owns! Now at least we know that SOMEONE knows!
          • insider 10.1.2.2.4

            20 January 2012 at 9:17 am

            Because I read it right here in the Standard… proof of your hotline to the beehive mayhap?
            http://thestandard.org.nz/amazing-coincidences/#comment-273824 http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19122011/#comment-419303
            • felix 10.1.2.2.4.1

              20 January 2012 at 10:45 am

              Irony is completely wasted on you isn’t it?
              • Jum …

                20 January 2012 at 6:11 pm

                Felix,
                And while I was checking insider’s wee links to say The Standard informed him I discovered a piece about John Key’s blind trust, the ‘something Cow’ with his wife and himself owning thousands of shares. At the bottom of the form it stated all shareholders had voted not to have an auditor. How can you vote to not have an auditor if you don’t know you have shares.

                Interesting too, is that the vote on having your business audited or not does not have to be notified to the Companies Office now.
      • mik e 10.1.3

        19 January 2012 at 8:09 pm

        Conmankey
        Double Dipstick
        Bully brownoselee
        Philandering smith
    • Colonial Viper 10.2

      19 January 2012 at 2:27 pm

      One that knows how to pull us out of the bad times . Versus one that just wastefully Consumes money as fast as it comes in.

      You are a silly billy.

      Money can’t be destroyed (unless you pay back a bank loan). Money either circulates or it is hoarded (usually by the few and the wealthy).

      If money circulates the normal activities of commerce, business and living can be conducted easily and quickly.

      If money is hoarded out of the community into the hands of a few – communities starve. Because in our capitalist system very little activity can occur without the exchange of money.
    • Draco T Bastard 10.3

      19 January 2012 at 7:44 pm

      Wow, you really are living in Lala Land. That “fiscally prudent” government has increased debt by about $18b over the last couple of years, hasn’t increased the nations income any (in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if it had gone down) and is building roads with B/C ratio of less than one when the figures they were using were more favourable which Peak Oil has now shown as complete twaddle.
      • Colonial Viper 10.3.1

        19 January 2012 at 8:25 pm

        But its all the GFC’s fault! Nothing that a free market worshipping Govt can do against the wisdom of the markets!

        Amazing Key and English have done so well when Cullen left such a mess of deficits and debt for the incoming National Government!!!

        lol
        • stever 10.3.1.1

          20 January 2012 at 11:13 am

          John Key had better talk to David Cameron soon, or he’ll be out of the club!

          “No true Conservative has a naive belief that all politics has to do is step back and let capitalism rip”—Cameron, in

          http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/19/david-cameron-pledges-popular-capitalism

          Also stuff about changing laws to make setting-up co-ops easier, faster etc.
      • prism 10.3.2

        19 January 2012 at 9:22 pm

        It seems strange that the NACTS are basing our continuing economic activity on repairing the bad results of disasters such as Canterbury. The rehashed methanol plant will employ about 120 full time employees as contractors while they are checking, repairing and preparing for opening. Then there will be a core of full time employees quite small I think and the rest contractors.

        Then there is road laning to be done before March, paid for by whom? It is all useful activity for feeding into national economic indicators. Has any economist come up with planned destruction as a means of keeping a tired economy in growth mode?
        • Colonial Viper 10.3.2.1

          19 January 2012 at 9:33 pm

          I hear Libya has about US$100 billion of post-‘liberation’ infrastructure repairs needed. That must be good for someone’s economy.
    • Jum 10.4

      19 January 2012 at 8:00 pm

      james 111

      Your stupidity leaves me breathless.

      You are so LOL.
    • mik e 10.5

      19 January 2012 at 8:54 pm

      jim anderton was the most successful businessman in parliament for years jturd.
      Labour has a much better record at running the economy jturd.
      Bills English the worst finance minister in the history of this country
      Double dipping double downgrade dipstick!
11. randal 11

    19 January 2012 at 2:32 pm

    the nashnil gubmint is not there for the good of the country.
    they are there to loot the states assets and anything else they can get away with.
12. John D 12

    19 January 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Why don’t we get rid of the ETS while we are at it? That is the biggest rip-off ever invented.

    A massive transfer of wealth from the citizens to corporations.
13. John D 13

    19 January 2012 at 3:03 pm

    This is where it gets crazy

    http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2012/01/beyond-surreal.html

    The UK govt has to find 19billion pounds to fund the IMF. It has to borrow that and add it to its nearly 1 trillion pounds of debt.

    As the article says, beyond surreal.
14. Jum 14

    19 January 2012 at 8:06 pm

    So, the IMF is going to give money to needy governments, but first it has to extract the money from needy governments – fascinating.

    Also, corrupt, greedy, unnecessary…
    • mik e 14.1

      19 January 2012 at 8:13 pm

      Then it imposes austerity on govts who,s taxes then decline needing an even bigger payout.
      Most of these countries are in the EU and can’t lower their exchange rate print money etc so they only have the austerity option.
    • Colonial Viper 14.2

      19 January 2012 at 8:27 pm

      They’re not interested in extracting money from those indebted countries. Remember, the IMF and the World Bank are just operational tools of TPTB.

      Their job now is to facilitate sovereign asset stripping for their masters, allowing the global top 0.01% to take ownership of Greek assets for cents on the dollar.

      PS add the BIS and the CME to the list
      • Colonial Viper 14.2.1

        19 January 2012 at 8:37 pm

        NB TPTB are aware that printed fiat dollars are ultimately worthless in an energy and physical resource constrained environment.

        Only hard assets count. Ports, energy companies, road, rail, productive land.
15. randal 15

    19 January 2012 at 8:21 pm

    germany 1920’s.
    ldc’s 1980’s.
    nothings changed.
16. tsmithfield 16

    20 January 2012 at 7:41 am

    We are already in a much brighter future than most of the world.
    • Hami Shearlie 16.1

      20 January 2012 at 9:02 am

      Yep, it’s brighter here alright -but only from loss of ozone – all we get from the brighter future here is skin cancer and sunburn!!!
17. james 111 17

    20 January 2012 at 10:24 am

    Do you believe that the Maritime union has got good support from the Labour Party on this issue seeing they donated $18500 to the Labour Party for the Election.
    Havent heard anything from Shearer yet
    • felix 17.1

      20 January 2012 at 10:43 am

      What what what???

      You mean the Labour Party isn’t just a political mouthpiece for it’s big donors?

      What kind of fucking politics do you call THAT?!?!
    • lprent 17.2

      20 January 2012 at 11:02 am

      You have an interesting view of the world. That the only reason to give money to political parties is to extract support from them? After watching The Good Wife recently, I’d have to call that as being so very American (or National party)….

      Tell me, do you apply the same viewpoint to donating to charities as well? Because that is the closest thing I know of to how most on the left (and many on the right here) view contributions to political parties.
18. the pink postman 18

    20 January 2012 at 4:33 pm

    After reading all above I must say Im still rather confused on financial matters/ .So perhaps some one in the know would tell me how an American Firm of accountants can downgrade a vast country just by adding a plus or minus sign. Therfore creating mass unemployment. Its well beyond me,and who the hell are Standards and Poor?
    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      28 January 2012 at 3:26 pm

      Standards and Poor, Fitch and Moody’s are part of the hired muscle in the bankster sovereign takeover scam.

      First the banksters get you, your country and your companies into debt and needing more debt. The price that debt comes at is determined by the mates of the Banksters, the credit ratings agencies (named above).

      You keep those mates sweet, and you can access further debt cheaply. You piss them off for any reason (or sometimes no reason) and they will make sure the other way you can access additional funds it by giving up an arm and a leg.

      At a given time, when TPTB decide they want to take over your country and your life, their mates the Credit Ratings Agencies will make it so hard for you to get additional funding, that your only way out is to get all your shit repossessed by your creditrs (the big banksters) at cents in the dollar. If you look at Greece, hard assets are what TPTB want these days. Ports, airports, roads, farm land, property, electricity infrastructure, virgin daughters, a people in intergenerational indentured servitude forever more.

      NB many pension funds and investment funds have rules stipulating that they can only invest in “AAA” rated investment assets. So TPTB paid the ratings agencies to give AAA ratings to a whole lot of toxic false assets which were then bought up by these pension funds, university endowment funds etc.

      Of course, the AAA ratings were a farce, and the banksters offloaded their toxic false assets on to the unsuspecting, at top dollar just in time before they blew up. Our pension funds get wrecked, while the banksters make a billion.
19. foreign waka 19

    28 January 2012 at 3:30 pm

    Consider this – The Fed is an independent corporation. It has been so since the 70’s. Their product is the US $, yes the currency itself is a commodity and traded as such. The American President has absolutely no influence over the nations financial future. To make sure that the recent loss of value of the US$ is regained in the world market the biggest impediment has to be removed: the Euro. Very successful until recently, even so much so that no one wanted to invest in the product of the Fed, hence the value kept dropping. Actual production value is not existent anymore in the States as all is contracted out to India and China so someone has to buy those bonds. China did and effectively has now the US economy by the short and curlies. This in turn has wider repercussion in the World Economy at large. Never in human history have people been so powerless as right now. So the question is whether the kids of the “greed is good” generation will and can make a difference. Because nothing short of a radical change is needed – in many ways.

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