web analytics

Reduce Poverty – Climate Change – Clean Rivers

Written By: - Date published: 9:25 am, September 28th, 2017 - 28 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:


If this phrase rings a bell with any of you, it might help save some from the madness they are descending into over who the Greens will go with, will not go with and so on.

This was Labour’s tagline during the campaign once Ardern became leader.

It was Green party tagline before Ardern became leader.

Reduce Poverty – Climate Change – Clean rivers

There is a pattern?

National’s tagline, as far as I can tell was;

Labour has a big hole

Labour will put up every tax and invent some new ones

English only noticed there was poverty a week before the election. National legislated to change the definition of swimable (so they wouldn’t have to clean up the rivers) and to say they are quiet on Climate change action is an understatement.

Leaving aside that the “hole” is actually a suggestion of a zero budget (which National ran in 2014 and 2015), the core campaign slogans could not be more different.

Except, that is,  between Labour and the Green Party.

Why would Labour negotiate away these 3 core platforms to a party that gained about 7.5% of the popular vote (some 30ish % less than they)? Surely they can accommodate NZF within these and compromise on other fringe matters? If Labour sticks to these 3 core platforms then Green Party would surely be happy. Why? Because their policy objectives (in macro) have been put on the table and will be into government policy. It does not matter if they are there to oversee them. And if not in Government there are Bills they can vote against NZF and Labour, and defeat them. They have voted with National on occassion in the past when it aligns with their Charter and principles.

As an aside, for those who speak of the Green Party descent toward oblivion (waving to you alwyn), I have dredged up their elecotral results since MMP

1999 5.16%
2002 7%
2005 5.3
2008 6.72
2011 11.06
2014 10.70



Numbers are not my gig so I may be wrong, but it appears that when Labour is strong the Greens lie mainly between 5 and 7%. When Labour is weak it gets between 10 and 11%. I shall refrain from quoting

I shall refrain from quoting Mr Wilde.

28 comments on “Reduce Poverty – Climate Change – Clean Rivers ”

  1. ianmac 1

    Always so hard to decide whether to vote Green or Labour. Maybe you are right about that trend Tracey.

    • tracey 1.1

      The Green’s are influencers, not outright rules. To my knowledge, they do not intend to throw their 5.9% around as though it were 40%+.

      The existence of the Green Party alone over the last 20-odd years has Greened up the main parties.

      I cannot see the Green Party allying with supporters of TPP

      • ianmac 1.1.1

        Somehow we are lead to believe in winners and losers. So if you are a “loser” then your ideas must be shunned by the ruling party in case the voters see them as weaklings.
        But in a perfect Government all ideas should be on the table. The Greens have caused incremental changes to policy though grudgingly by National.
        Insulation was a Green plan even if National claim it as theirs.

  2. mac1 2

    “I shall refrain from quoting Mr Wilde.” Is that because of this?

    “Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit.”
    – Oscar Wilde

    Was this Wilde quote a comment on National’s pursuit of the Greens in coalition- “The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable?”

  3. red-blooded 3

    Labour didn’t change its policies or priorities after the leadership change. it changed its slogan and the messaging got better, but those priorities had been decided months before, and had been a huge focus during the previous years. The policies didn’t come out of nowhere – they were developed through in-party discussions and work programmes, just as they always are.

    Some policy was only released after the leadership change, but it wasn’t made up on the spot. There’s always a slow release of policy during an election campaign and the order of releases was planned in advance.

    • tracey 3.1

      The slogan (I called it a tagline, but we are merely interchanging words) they chose was identical to the one Green Party already had.That was my point.

      In any event, the point is, Red Blooded, they have exactly the same three core policies as represented to the electorate during the campaign in their tagline/slogan.

      Do you not agree that makes bottomlines quite easy for both labour and Greens?

      If Labour were now to suggest that they have policies of higher priority, that would be a bit naughty, wouldn’t it? To have campaigned on that 3-pronged premise but had a different one behind the scenes.

      • red-blooded 3.1.1

        The slogan was “Let’s do this!” When did the Greens use something similar?

        • tracey

          See? You are still focusing on the wrong part.

          Are you denying Ardern constantly said

          Reduce Poverty, Addresslimate Change and Clean up the Rivers ( or words tot hat effect)? If you are not denying it, then my point is they have the means to get Green support, outside Government by acting on those 3 promises.

          • red-blooded

            Ardern articulated the Labour priorities. Why do you think you own these concerns? Little had been saying similar things previously (just not as articulately).

            I have no issue with your basic point about the two parties being able to work together. I don’t like the assumption that only Greens can be truly concerned about these issues, though. Maybe you didn’t mean to imply that, but when you say,”This was Labour’s tagline during the campaign once Ardern became leader. It was Green party tagline before Ardern became leader. Reduce Poverty – Climate Change – Clean rivers. There is a pattern?” that’s what comes through.

    • weka 3.2

      “and had been a huge focus during the previous years.”

      I can see that’s true from a Labour perspective, but it’s not from a Green perspective. Labour have done some good work shifting left on environmental issues, but they still have a ways to go to make sure sustainability is central to government.

      • red-blooded 3.2.1

        The claim in the original posting was that Labour had switched focus and adopted the Greens’ priorities after the leadership change.

        “This was Labour’s tagline during the campaign once Ardern became leader.

        It was Green party tagline before Ardern became leader.

        Reduce Poverty – Climate Change – Clean rivers

        There is a pattern?”

        The point is that Labour didn’t switch focus and that these priorities didn’t come from the Greens, they came from work within the Labour Party. Believe it or not, the Greens don’t “own” any of these priorities and they have been and continue to be long term priorities for Labour. It’s perfectly possible for two sets of people with a number of shared values and attitudes to develop similar concerns when reacting to a given situation.

        • tracey

          I know you are grumpy that I say Labour imitated this tagline, not the policies underneath which to a greater or lesser extent already existed in labour, but the pithy way to present those polices in a slogan/tagline during the campaign?

          First video of the campaign




          Do you really have no comment on how easy it is for Greens and Labour to form a Coalition based on such commonality on those 3 issues? And isn’t that good for the future? And that I am suggesting it paves a way to concede bigtime to NZF to have greens outside Cabinet and thereby reduce his impact on the policies by trade off?

          Or do you want to keep bitching about whether a tagline is a policy and that Labour was always telling everyone Reduce Poverty, Climate Change, Clean Rivers before Arden became leader?

          • red-blooded

            If you wanted to focus on commonalities, perhaps you could/should have presented your thinking a bit differently. It wasn’t me who chose to highlight and front-load the claim about the Greens being the epicentre of major policy thinking – that was your choice.

            I’ve already said I think the two parties should aim to work together. Perhaps you didn’t notice that because you were too focused on what you perceive as bitching and I perceive as balancing your (definitely tetchy, if. deleted for sexism) comments.

            • tracey

              I highlighted the similarities in the taglines (advertising if that is easier to understand) and the fact that Labour did not campaign on that three prong tagline (advertising) until the leadership change. I even did the research to prove that point. Address the links I provided, particularly the opening Labour Ad of the campaign if you want to keep arguing that Labour did not start advertising itself as I have alluded. Better still show me speeches, ads, billboards etc where, prior to Ardern being Leader Little ran this exact phrase.

              Far from saying Greens slogan made them the epicentre of major policy thinking, I actually said the shared slogan makes it a win/win for Greens. That you keep substituting tagline for policy is your issue not mine. Claiming I am saying Labour didnt have poverty, climate change or clean river policies, means you are deliberately misreading or do not understand the differentiation I have made bettween branding/advertising (taglibes) and policies. This is not the first time I have made this clarification to you on other posts.

              I have moderated your sexist characterisation of my comments.

              • red-blooded


                Again you misrepresent (deliberately?) my comments. I did not remove bitching from your comment.

                You also might want to re-read the rules about attacking authors.

                • red-blooded

                  Some of your comments on this thread have been a mischaracterization of what I wrote. You continued to mischaracterize my comments even after I further clarified them for you and had done so when this came up on other threads. You do not get to keep determining how this discussion goes.

                  There is a difference between bitching and the word you used.

                  This is your final warning.

  4. weka 4

    If Labour sticks to these 3 core platforms then Green Party would surely be happy. Why? Because their policy objectives (in macro) have been put on the table and will be into government policy. It does not matter if they are there to oversee them. And if not in Government there are Bills they can vote against NZF and Labour, and defeat them. They have voted with National on occassion in the past when it aligns with their Charter and principles.

    I think this is true to an extent, but a few caveats. One is that L/NZF will give watered down versions of those policies. It will still be a big improvement on National, but I’m not convinced it will be enough to entrench the values in NZ governance for the long term.

    Second point (related). We really need a party with expertise in those areas to implement the best practice. Climate change alone is a good enough reason for the Greens to be inside a centre left govt. I want that to happen in the way the Greens deem best e.g. they might push for Shaw as CC minister, or they might give that up in exchange for getting the climate plan more fully accepted.

    I also think that the Greens need some time in government. They need it for themselves, so that they gain experience and also get the momentum that comes from being in that position. And they need it so the NZ gets used to seeing them there and how they work.

    On the other side of all of that is what it might cost them. I don’t know enough about what Labour and Peters want to know what the risk is.

    • tracey 4.1

      I agree with your caveats

      My preference is for Green Ministers. Afterall Green Party only has a couple fewer MPs than NZF.

      Mine is a scenario where, for any number of reasons , that is negotiated away. I tried to find areas of commonality between G and L and found 3 HUGE ones, publicly campaigned upon. I am just putting it out there because I know the Greens do not hold other parties to ransom and do not want to be a tail wagging the dog. It is unlikely they expect to get their policy version of those 3 pillars.

      BUT if Winston wants Greens outside Cabinet, he needs to be pushed, by Labour, for bigger concessions and one place is on those 3 points and what it looks like.

      From my viewpoint, this negotiation is about which big party will hold NZF to his 7.8% share of the vote in proportion to what he demands (give or take). The one who gives him disproportionate policy will probably “win” his support, but the cost bothers me a great deal.

  5. Sparky 5

    I would guess its split three ways: Greens, Labour, NZF. This is no bad thing as it gives voters choice and sends a message to bigger complacent parties who still think FPP is there in spirit.

    • tracey 5.1

      Which specific NZF policies fit with Labour and Green commitments to;

      Reduce poverty, address climate change and clean up the rivers

  6. roy cartland 6

    Think of what would happen, anywhere in the world, if the Greens Governed. No, it wouldn’t mean tofu and horse and carts. It would only mean there would be no billionaires. We’d probably work less that we do now, and would have no reason to consume as much junk and create so much waste. The benefits would outweigh the costs and we’d be more productive where it counts. The only reason to vote Right is if you think you’re one day going to be Trump or Zuck or Bob Jones, and can’t see why on earth you’d contribute to the common good if you could get away with not doing so.

  7. Drowsy M. Kram 7

    For NZ’s sake I hope that sometime in the not-to-distant future Labour party policies will approach if not ‘out-green’ Green party policies, but that seems unrealistic given the genesis of the NZ Green party.

    The introduction of MMP had its detractors in both National and Labour, and one possible interpretation of Labour-Green interactions during the final weeks of this election campaign is that individuals in the larger party haven’t come to grips with the MMP environment, some 20 years after its implementation.

    I’m guessing that National aren’t a big fan of lowering the 5% threshold, but I can’t recall Labour’s official position – do they have one? Labour’s support for the NZ Electoral Commission’s recommendation to lower the threshold to 4% would be heartening, and a likely point of difference with National.

  8. CoroDale 8

    Insightful analysis. Agreed, Greens don’t need to be in Govt, they just need to keep Nats out.

    • Tracey 8.1

      Thanks. Green goal is to get the change they want as quickly as possible. That can happen outside govt and has in the past. Gfeen policies in main parties were almost non existent in FPP days

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Tokelau Language Week reminds us to stay united and strong
    Staying strong in the face of challenges and being true to our heritage and languages are key to preserving our cultural identity and wellbeing, is the focus of the 2020 Tokelau Language Week. Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio, says this year’s theme, ‘Apoapo tau foe, i nā tāfea ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • NZ announces a third P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    The Government has deployed a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea, announced Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark. “New Zealand has long supported ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pacific trade and development agreement a reality
    Pacific regional trade and development agreement PACER Plus will enter into force in 60 days now that the required eight countries have ratified it. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the announcement that the Cook Islands is the eighth nation to ratify this landmark agreement. “The agreement represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Securing a pipeline of teachers
    The Government is changing its approach to teacher recruitment as COVID-19 travel restrictions continue, by boosting a range of initiatives to get more Kiwis into teaching. “When we came into Government, we were faced with a teacher supply crisis,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “Over the past three years, we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Border exceptions for a small number of international students with visas
    The Government has established a new category that will allow 250 international PhD and postgraduate students to enter New Zealand and continue their studies, in the latest set of border exceptions. “The health, safety and wellbeing of people in New Zealand remains the Government’s top priority. Tight border restrictions remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • First COVID-19 vaccine purchase agreement signed
    The Government has signed an agreement to purchase 1.5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 750,000 people – from Pfizer and BioNTech, subject to the vaccine successfully completing all clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, say Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods and Health Minister Chris Hipkins. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • International statement – End-to-end encryption and public safety
    We, the undersigned, support strong encryption, which plays a crucial role in protecting personal data, privacy, intellectual property, trade secrets and cyber security.  It also serves a vital purpose in repressive states to protect journalists, human rights defenders and other vulnerable people, as stated in the 2017 resolution of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ministry of Defence Biodefence Assessment released
    The Ministry of Defence has today released a Defence Assessment examining Defence’s role across the spectrum of biological hazards and threats facing New Zealand. Biodefence: Preparing for a New Era of Biological Hazards and Threats looks at how the NZDF supports other agencies’ biodefence activities, and considers the context of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020
    New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020 Hon David Parker’s response following Thomas Piketty and Esther Duflo. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever in the world you might be. I first acknowledge the excellent thought provoking speeches of Thomas Piketty and Esther ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Kaipara Moana restoration takes next step
    A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed today at Waihāua Marae between the Crown, local iwi and councils to protect, restore and enhance the mauri of Kaipara Moana in Northland. Environment Minister David Parker signed the document on behalf of the Crown along with representatives from Ngā Maunga Whakahī, Ngāti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand and Uruguay unite on reducing livestock production emissions
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Uruguayan Minister of Livestock, Agriculture and Fisheries Carlos María Uriarte have welcomed the launch of a three-year project that will underpin sustainable livestock production in Uruguay, Argentina, and Costa Rica.  The project called ‘Innovation for pasture management’ is led by Uruguay’s National Institute of Agricultural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 3100 jobs created through marae upgrades
    Hundreds of marae throughout the country will be upgraded through investments from the Provincial Growth Fund’s refocused post COVID-19 funding to create jobs and put money into the pockets of local tradespeople and businesses, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta have announced. “A total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health volunteers recognised in annual awards
    Health Minister Chris Hipkins has announced 9 teams and 14 individuals are the recipients of this year’s Minister of Health Volunteer Awards.  “The health volunteer awards celebrate and recognise the thousands of dedicated health sector volunteers who give many hours of their time to help other New Zealanders,” Mr Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community COVID-19 Fund supports Pacific recovery
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says a total of 264 groups and individuals have successfully applied for the Pacific Aotearoa Community COVID-19 Recovery Fund, that will support Pacific communities drive their own COVID-19 recovery strategies, initiatives, and actions. “I am keen to see this Fund support Pacific ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community benefits from Māori apprenticeships
    Up to 50 Māori apprentices in Wellington will receive paid training to build houses for their local communities, thanks to a $2.75 million investment from the Māori Trades and Training Fund, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Ngāti Toa Rangatira Incorporated to provide its Ngā Kaimahi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Training fund supports Māori jobseekers
    Rapidly growing sectors will benefit from a $990,000 Māori Trades and Training Fund investment which will see Wellington jobseekers supported into work, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Sapphire Consultants Ltd. to help up to 45 Māori jobseekers into paid training initiatives over two years through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ruakura Inland Port development vital infrastructure for Waikato
    The Government is investing $40 million to develop an inland port at Ruakura which will become a freight super-hub and a future business, research and residential development for the Waikato, Urban Development and Transport Minister Phil Twyford, and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The funding has been has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Appointments made to Defence Expert Review Group
    Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today the establishment of an Expert Review Group to review a number of aspects of the New Zealand Defence Force’s (NZDF) structure, information management and record-keeping processes.  The Expert Review Group’s work arises out of the first recommendation from the Report of the Government’s Inquiry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • No active community cases of COVID-19
    There are no active community cases of COVID-19 remaining in the country after the last people from the recent outbreak have recovered from the virus, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “This is a big milestone. New Zealanders have once again through their collective actions squashed the virus. The systems ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Clean energy upgrade for more public buildings
    More public buildings will be supported by the Government to upgrade to run on clean energy, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. Minister Shaw announced that Lincoln and Auckland universities will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to replace fossil fuel boilers. Southern, Taranaki, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago