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Right now Sonny Fatupaito is an essential worker

Written By: - Date published: 8:28 am, October 6th, 2021 - 125 comments
Categories: covid-19, health, Judith Collins, racism, uncategorized - Tags:

News that the head of Waikato’s Mongrel Mob chapter was given an essential workers exemption to travel to and around Auckland recently has attracted derision from the usual quarters.

Jason Walls reported this in the Herald:

Newstalk ZB can reveal the [essential worker’s] exemption was granted to Sonny Fatupaito – who’s been working with some of the harder to reach communities in the city, such as those with gang affiliations.

In a statement, via a spokesperson, Fatupaito said he has been liaising with health officials and police to assist in reaching people in communities within the gang’s chapters and their whanau in Auckland.

He was asked to travel to Auckland by South Seas Healthcare, who have been co-ordinating much of the response to the South Auckland clusters.

“This required immediate intervention from the senior leadership in the Waikato Kingdom, and this onsite intervention ensured compliance and welfare assistance was provided as needed.”

He confirmed he had been given an exemption to travel across the Auckland boundary and he did so “under strict Covid-19 protocols, enforced by health officials and the police”.

No doubt National will go to town on this.  With barely disguised contempt Judith Collins said this morning that the Government “had been calling Sonny Fatu from the Mongrel Mob a social worker“.

And Simeon Brown has chipped in.

The merits of the decision?  There is deep concern that Covid is spreading through gang whanau.  There are at least two public reports that I am aware of where gang members or associates have been infected and the nature of the disease is that it is almost inevitable that it has spread further.  Conventional means of reaching out will not work.  Like it or not the gangs are deeply suspicious of authority.  Why wouldn’t you ask their leadership to help with the response and the vaccine roll out?

Right now Sonny Fatupaito is an essential worker.  We need to do everything, conventional or otherwise, to reach out to all of our communities to make sure they are safe and to increase vaccination rates.

125 comments on “Right now Sonny Fatupaito is an essential worker ”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    Nandor Tanczos say this:

    "This weekend senior Black Power members worked with the DHB and Waiariki Whanau Mentoring to bring real information about Covid and about the vaccine, to the Awatapu community. People talk about the challenges of working in some communities but here in Whakatāne Black Power leaders are showing the way. I know that Waiariki Mentoring is doing the same with Mongrel Mob, Tribesmen and other organisation in other parts of the district. Full respect to them.

    Big mihi to the brother Marley for his work bringing this weekend together. The man is a quiet inspiration. There was no pressure to be vaccinated, just good information for people to digest and take away if they wanted. For those that wanted to, they could get a shot there and then. I did that, and will follow up when they run the next one in 6 weeks time. Had a sore arm the next day, but no other side effects.

    I've been really impressed with the work going on inside Black Power here in the Eastern Bay to transform their community for the better. I make no apologies for supporting them in that work."

  2. KJT 2

    The "criminal" gangs are supporting the community on this occasion, unlike some of our other gangs.

    Good on them.

    • I Feel Love 2.1

      Absolutely!

    • Puckish Rogue 2.2

      They are not supporting the community, they are supporting themselves. Have you all lost your collective minds?

      I'm no fan of mega-churches but last time I checked they aren't drug trafficking, weapon trafficking, murdering etc

      The more things like this happen the more emboldened they become, remember this:

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mongrel-mob-man-behind-meth-rehab-programme-jacinda-seems-to-trust-me-why-wouldnt-you/2MLNO4FH7HRKVIDSWEIQOFS37Y/

      The people of NZ have more knowledge of what the mob is about than the government, how does this happen?

      All gangs should be declared illegal, all gang members should have their benefits cut off and all gang members should be imprisoned.

      • Robert Guyton 2.2.1

        Puckish who?
        Edit: Oh! Punish Rogue!
        That guy.

      • dv 2.2.2

        Define a gang.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.2.1

          Start here, work your way down:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_New_Zealand

          In 2019 the Police recorded 6,500 patched or prospective gang members in the country, with the ten main gangs being the Head Hunters, Bandidos, Hells Angels, King Cobras, Black Power, Mongrel Mob, Tribesmen, Rebels, Devils Henchmen and Highway 61

          • Robert Guyton 2.2.2.1.1

            "Define community"

            Do churches "support the community" or do they support their community?

            If the gangs have high membership, member's whanau and associates, their community will be large. If there are as many gangs as you indicate, their community in total will be very large indeed: should that community be dismissed, in the face of a pandemic, Pucky?
            In any case, KJT is likely meaning the gangs, by vaccinating, are supporting the wider community with regard pandemic control, in the same way any individual who gets vaccinated is supporting the wider community, as described by our Prime Minister and her health officials 🙂

            • Ad 2.2.2.1.1.1

              Go right ahead and compare New Zealand's remaining churches to criminal gangs if you like, but you're wrong.

              • Tricledrown

                When you look at the victim's of sexual abuse in church's and the membership of gangs there is a strong link.

                Black power's founder a victim of the St John of God order most of the victims of this oder ended up in jail and gangs.

                Dilworth the latest religious school outed.

                The Catholic Church,Exclusive Brethren a funder and supporter of the National Party have very high rates of serial sexual abuse . Many other religious cults are no more than gangs of of mysoginist sexual violent and financial abusers.

                • Ad

                  The most useful and positive agents for assistance and welfare outside the state are the churches and their related institutions.

                  If the gangs in New Zealand were held to account in public for their damage like the handful of church leaders have for sex crimes, we would have a royal commission lasting longer than the modern Treaty of Waitangi claims process.

                  • Tricledrown

                    A handful of church leaders while hundreds went unpunished.The Catholic Church,Gloriavale,E,B, JW's, sexual abuse rampant.

                • Jenny how to get there

                  Tricledrown

                  6 October 2021 at 12:10 pm

                  When you look at the victim's of sexual abuse in church's and the membership of gangs there is a strong link.

                  Black power's founder a victim of the St John of God order most of the victims of this oder ended up in jail and gangs.

                  Whether in church instutions, or state institutions, wherever young people are abused, they grow up marginalised with a deep distrust of society, or even anyone who works with church or state authorities.

                  If Sonny Fatupaito didn't do this work, who could?

                  We should be thankful.

                  Nobody from society's accepted authorities could do this work,. In doing this work on our behalf, Sonny Fatupaito is taking a big reputational risk with the people he represents by working with the hated authorities to undertake this task.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.2.1.1.2

              They are the same gangs destroying those same communities with drugs, violence, rape etc

              But hey they want to vaccinate so its all good

          • dv 2.2.2.1.2

            So how much will it cost to imprison an extra 6500 gang members?

            $91000 per person per year

            Total $591m

            Not counting new prisons to be built.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.2.1.2.1

              How much has the lockdown cost.

              How much is the social cost of the gangs.

              How about the victims of the gangs.

            • alwyn 2.2.2.1.2.2

              $591m.

              Is that all? A bargain I should think. In 2016 a published study put the social cost to New Zealand of illicit drugs as being $1.8b. That was for the 2014-2015 year. I haven't seen anything later. I doubt if our current Government is doing anything to provide more up to date info.

              https://www.health.govt.nz/publication/research-report-new-zealand-drug-harm-index-2016

              Anyway I would guess it has gone up in the interim. Assuming a one third increase would suggest that locking up all the gangs might cost one quarter of the current figure. Quite a good return on investment.

              It would also represent less that a week of a level 4 lockdown in Auckland. In fact someone like Robertson would no doubt label it as being only a rounding error, of perhaps chump change.

          • Foreign Waka 2.2.2.1.3

            PR very many in the community are thinking the same but are scared to say anything. That just tells it all.

            NZ is becoming a lawless place.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.2.1.3.1

              I don't blame them for being scared, everyone should be scared of the gangs but to have the government all but legitimise the Mob is the scariest thing of all.

      • JanM 2.2.3

        "If you prick us do we not bleed?" If people who know better see the need for support from gang leaders to protect us all why would you complain? Last I heard Covid 19 is unable to distinguish between the worthy (in your estimation) and the rest of us.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.3.1

          If the gang members don't want to be vaccinated then good, count them as part of the 10% unvaccinated and let nature take its course

          • bwaghorn 2.2.3.1.1

            Whadda bout their missus's and kids ,

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.3.1.1.1

              They're adults, let adults make decisions.

              • Foreign Waka

                yes

              • weka

                what about the other people in the community they infect? In the supermarket or pharmacy or cafe? Who then go on to infect other people?

                Wanting everyone to be protected from covid doesn't mean we like everyone. It means we understand how transmission of viral illnesses happens and isn't an individual problem.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  What of it?

                  With a 90% vaccination target that still leaves over 480 thousand people unvaccinated, if most of the gang members in NZ are in that unvaccinated number then thats their decision.

          • cathy-o 2.2.3.1.2

            nature taking it's course is just as likely to be you, puckish rogue, catching covid-19 from going shopping in a supermarket where one or more of those unvaccinated gang members has just been.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.3.1.2.1

              Incorrect.

              I'm in the South Island where its been something like 300 plus days without a case

              Even if I did catch it I'm vaccinated with no under lying health issues so I'm quite confident I'll shrug it off just like the flu, well actually more like a cold as I can't recall the last time I had the flu (I'm assuming I must have at same point)

              • Tricledrown

                Puckish Rogue you are making shit up again just shrugging it off like the flu.

                Peckish even though you are vaccinated have no underlying health conditions you are aware of.

                Your likely hood of getting seriously ill from covid is much higher than seasonal flu's. You can still spread Covid.

                To unvaccinated Children people with compromised immune systems.

                You are spreading misinformation.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Reread what I wrote, especially the part where I say I'M quite confident I'll shrug it off.

                  • georgecom

                    mate, who bloody cares. If gang members make up the final 10% to get us to 90%, all good and fine. If getting gang leaders to intervene and lift vaccination rates amongst gang members then thats f'in fine by me. Once again Simeon Brown and Collins add fuck all to the debate. This isn't about gangs, it's about controlling Covid and getting us to 90%.

                    Once we get to 90% then any gang member who isn't vaccinated, well best of luck, you will need it. Same goes for Destiny and other christians who think God will protect them. Same goes for the cafe owner in Takaka or vaccine deniers. Same goes for anyone who was to lethargic to get off their arse to be vaccinated.

                    Nit picking about gangs and making political capital from it is pretty immature. The debate should be about the last 10% getting vaccinated.

                    Gang members from the Waikato who try to collect drug debts in Auckland and get caught at the border, fwits and they deserve everything coning to them. Gang members who try to leave Auckland hiding in the back of a truck to collect drug debts down the line, fwit and I hope he gets a spell inside. Gang leaders who talk to their chapters about getting tested, contact tracing and vaccines, good, thank you, please continue.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Talk fine, tell them whatever but don't give this guy special dispensation.

                      He can't use a phone? Order them to do it on skype, it has to be in person?

                    • McFlock

                      He can't use a phone? Order them to do it on skype, it has to be in person?

                      Apparently it does.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Yes there are plenty of things that can only be done in person, talking isn't one of them

                    • felix

                      Insisting on being at meetings in person was backwards, selfish and ignorant a couple of weeks ago when it was National's position. I wonder what changed.

                    • georgecom

                      if it takes this guy into Auckland to get the message out puckish then that's fine with me. I am in the Waikato and we have the virus going through the gangs atm. Damn any fwit who brought it into the community through ignoring lockdown rules, they can go to hell. Having a community leader within the gang movement being proactive to help control and remove the virus is what we need more of.

              • cathyo

                i'm all right jack and to hell with you.

                nice

                • Puckish Rogue

                  I've been told the information and have made my decision, same as everyone else

              • Patricia Bremner

                When restrictions lift, and it is endemic, you will meet it. Baker says before Christmas.

                The fact the SI is free of covid is thanks to the efforts of the people in the North bearing lock downs and protecting you. Now that includes Sonny.

                • georgecom

                  well said. The top half and especially Auckland has done a hell of a lot of heavy lifting for the country.

                  The waikato was quietly ticking along at level 2, albeit a bit grumpily but happy we were not Auckland. Not smugly, we looked at Auckland and thought poor sods going through that. And then bang, some "person" (many here have much stronger names for them, much stronger) decided it was fine for them to breach the rules and we have covid here. the initial 5 days level 3 is now 8 days at least of level 3.

                  So the south island can think all is fine and well for them and think they should be at level 1. And then they wake up one morning and covid is there with them. Nothing should surprise us with this bastard virus.

        • alwyn 2.2.3.2

          "If people who know better see the need for support from gang leaders to protect us all".

          These "people who know better" don't have to worry about protection. The PM for example if going around Wellington is always under the protection of about 4 security guards, also known as the DPS.

      • Treetop 2.2.4

        Covid transmission and vaccination is a separate topic in relation to gangs.

        Edit: I was not going to bother with a reply but I could not contain myself.

      • Tricledrown 2.2.5

        Same for financial fraudsters like Destiny and Panama /pandoras perpetrators.

      • miravox 2.2.6

        "They are not supporting the community, they are supporting themselves. Have you all lost your collective minds?"

        1. Right now there interests and ours coincide. Happy to see they're doing this work.
        2. Banishing people from society is a useless way to stop young people being attracted to gangs.
        3. Your comment about 'letting adults make decisions' doesn't count the context of that decision-making and the choices they have may be many times less than the choices you have.

        This is basic in terms of improving the health and welfare of women and kids.

      • cathy-o 2.2.7

        get real puckish rogue. if gang members catch Covid they are going to spread it through the community, that means all those virtuous people like you.

        it's absolutely reasonable to take all measures to prevent that happening, in this case that means bringing someone those gang members will listen to so that they can get the information they need in order to get vaccinated.

        the virus has no prejudices. gang members taste the same to it as all those pillars of society like you.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.7.1

          First time I've been called a pillar of society.

          As a Corrections Officer that has to deal with gang members face to face I get called far worse.

          • Tricledrown 2.2.7.1.1

            Puckish Rogue how long ago did you get vaccinated more than 6 months ago.working with unvaccinated gang members with a 1 in 10 chance the vaccine isn't going to protect you.if you are over weight over 50 your chances are probably 1 in 5 of contracting covid.

            Your a much bigger idiot than I thought.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.7.1.1.1

              You're*

              You do know that prisoners are quarantined for two weeks when they first arrive in prison?

              That any sign, even the sniffles, is enough to have prisoners again quarantined?

              Last time I checked there had been one prisoner in NZ infected.

              One.

              Out of a total prison population of just over 8500.

              In the North Island

              In an enclosed system with very unhealthy people.

              Prisoners quarantined, staff isolated.

              No spread. No more cases. Caught and dealt with appropriately.

              Yeah I'll take my chances where I am with the processes already in place.

              • Tricledrown

                P R Delta is different much more difficult to contain like whack a mole that original case was the less transmissible variant be careful.How long have you been in the service you most likely worked with my brother . Its a very tough job it takes a special type of person to be able to face up to such people every day.

          • cathyo 2.2.7.1.2

            and you don’t recognise someone taking the mickey out of you when you see it, PR

            why am i not surprised

          • Robert Guyton 2.2.7.1.3

            I think she meant, "pillock" 🙂

      • McFlock 2.2.8

        Some churches are as parasitic as gangs. And at least the boss of this organisation is trying to stop his group spreading the disease, rather than encouraging them to do it and being surprised when he gets charged.

        But more to the point, if a dude needs an exemption to go to Auckland and order a bunch of criminals to get their fucking jabs and social distance while doing their illegal work, that person is an essential worker regardless of his own status in those organisations.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.8.1

          Why does he need to go in person, surely his word is enough alone that he can do it over the phone

          • McFlock 2.2.8.1.1

            Fuck if I know, I don't run a gang. Maybe they don't do business over the phone. Maybe he needs to personally emphasise the point about the team of 5 million. (I was going to link De Niro's Untouchables "teamwork" speech there, but the baseball bat might be a bit much for some, lol)

            Also, if Juco needs to travel to lead her group, why don’t other leaders?

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.8.1.1.1

              No I think you do know, probably better than most

              • McFlock

                Lol there's the knowin', and then there's the bein' of the knowin'.

                Playing arma3 doesn't teach one about war, and watching The Wire doesn't mean one knows how to survive on the street 🙂

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Being door security probably gives you more insights than most though or do I have that wrong?

                  • McFlock

                    No, did that in my time, true. But not the rougher bars in town.

                    Although I did have one colleague who seriously said the line "jeez, you break one guy's fingers and you never hear the end of it" lol. It was a legit accident (got pushed from behind while holding the guy down), but after that whenever someone gave the "nice place, hands off" speech Eyes Were Meaningfully Directed at Him.

                    But mostly for me it was just stopping entitled little lynx-soaked wimps from accidentally harming themselves or someone else, not worrying too much about knives or intentional glassings.

      • vto 2.2.9

        ha ha puckish rogue, you sound like Bill English who a few years ago publicly bemoaned the work ethic and general attitude of young people … funny thing was that those young people were all born into and raised through Bill English's governments and policies i.e. he created the very thing he bemoaned.

        just like you

      • Patricia Bremner 2.2.10

        There is a huge disclosure of a Catholic Church involvement in Paedophilia, both here and in France. This has been a festering sore caused by some "acceptable" members of society hidden and abbetted by some powerful people.

        Your talk of "last time I checked …" is balderdash Puckish Rogue!! The various churches have every type of member who have committed every type of crime. to pretend otherwise is to "other" people because they have affiliations.

        If we ignore covid spread in gangs, then we are acting as judge and jury without trial. Uncomfortable as it might be for you, the Law gives rights to all communities, and you do not suspend rule of Law just when it suits.

        These two men are risking their lives like all our essential workers to help their community. This is to our advantage. To be dismissive because they are "gangs" or "associates" Communication not condemnation.

  3. Ad 3

    If only they knew the trackers they've been injected with.

  4. Treetop 4

    It is not about the name of your group or who the leader is, it is about cooperation and communication to reach a common goal which is preventing the transmission of Covid and getting people vaccinated.

  5. Andre 5

    Given the importance of getting as many people possible vaccinated, I for one applaud Sonny Fatupaito for playing a part in getting more vaccinations happening.

    I also applaud the healthcare and other organisations that made it happen. They surely would have guessed the heat they would catch for it, and they went ahead and did a good thing anyway. Props.

    The harms that gangs do in other ways is a totally separate topic than whether this particular event was a good thing or not.

    • Puckish Rogue 5.1

      But its not about getting people vaccinated. Its about Sonny being able to travel, its about Sonny being legitimised by the government.

      Anything about vaccinations is secondary.

      • Andre 5.1.1

        Given that Northern Region Health Coordination Centre (NRHCC), Auckland Regional Public Health Service (ARPHS), police, Professor Collin Tukuitonga and Dr. Rawiri Jansen all seem to be involved, I'm satisfied it's much more about vaccination than it is about Sonny joyriding around Auckland then back to Waikato.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300423830/covid19-mongrel-mob-boss-given-exemption-to-cross-auckland-border

        Of course, if it is more about joyriding, then a reasonably probable outcome is Sonny picking up covid in Auckland then passing it on to his chapter members in Waikato.

        If Waikato were truly covid-free, that would be a disaster, but since it's not …

        • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1

          I'm not referring to joy riding, I'm referring to him taking care of business, his business.

          Imagine you're a young constable and you stop Sonny, with reasonable cause of course, and he starts spouting off all the people that vouch for him

          From PM down, how would you react (and how would you really react)

          • Andre 5.1.1.1.1

            If that's the actual picture, I'm confident we'll find out soon enough.

            Meanwhile, I'm fine with taking media reports on the topic at face value without feeling the need to make nefarious hidden goings-on. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

            • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1.1.1

              "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

              Good point. Life long Mongrel Mob gang leader. Working for the community or working for himself.

              Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

          • Brigid 5.1.1.1.2

            "Imagine you're a young constable and you stop Sonny, with reasonable cause of course, and he starts spouting off all the people that vouch for him"

            Is that the first paragraph in your latest work of fiction?

            It will be interesting to see how you develop it

            Or not

          • KJT 5.1.1.1.3

            Imagine if you are a young constable, and you see Collins at a cafe counter without a mask?

            • Robert Guyton 5.1.1.1.3.1

              "Imagine if you are a young constable, and you see Collins at a cafe counter "

              Awful enough right there!

              Psychologically scarred for life, poor wretch!

              • KJT

                The reason why I couldn't be a politician.

                My visceral reaction to patched gang members of both the motorcycle and National party variety is to renounce my lifelong commitment to non violence.

                Noting that the best recruiters the gangs, and drug dealers, certainly in Northland, ever had were Roger Douglas followed by Ruth Richardson.

      • Tricledrown 5.1.2

        So puckish it's OK if gangs spread covid around the perfect vector their dealerships.

        • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.1

          Well of course not.

          Because they're so community minded they certainly won't be breaking lock down protocols so no need to worry about it.

      • Tricledrown 5.1.3

        Puckish Rogue.your legitimising the spread of covid.Robert Muldoon made friends with the black power leader.

        That black power leader was a ward of the state fostered out to the Catholic Church who brutally raped children under its care.All but one of the children under care of this St John of God order ended up in gangs ending up in prison for violent crimes.

        Maybe ask a few of those gang members how there childhood was.

        Most likely nothing like yours.

        • Puckish Rogue 5.1.3.1

          Muldoon was very wrong on this, he shouldn't have done what he did or stop up the schemes he did

          I'd wager I know more of their backgrounds than you do but so what, thats a separate issue

          • Gezza 5.1.3.1.1

            When all the hullabaloo dies down the thing to actually check is – did this visit measurably & significantly INCREASE gang members’ & associates’ and their whanau’s vax rates.

            It it did, great. If it didn’t – wtf were they thinking. Sonny always knows what he’s thinking. All good PR for the Kingdom.

            • Puckish Rogue 5.1.3.1.1.1

              The leadership of the gangs should never be underestimated thats for sure

          • Tricledrown 5.1.3.1.2

            I doubt that you know more about gang back grounds than me.

            I worked on the front lines of trying to turn around young homeless kids running away from extreme violence for 20 years.

            I know many of the people you know plus a few more.we turned around a good percentage of those but a continuous tidal wave burnt me and many others out.

            The economic reforms of the mid 1980's rogernomics ruthenasia,while making more people wealthier has left a large underbelly worse off.

            Then the war on drugs has under the free market created an embedded way to fund gangs.

            By making laws extremely tough on drug use has had unintended consequences pushing up the prices making it more profitable for dealer's and traffickers.

            Gangs don't think about consequences going to prison is like going to gang headquarters your gang status goes up.

            So our existing ways are just growing the gang problem.

            No statistic to prove otherwise.

            Gangs will continue to grow while we continue a long this get tough on drugs get tough on gangs.This approach has been a complete failure.

  6. observer 6

    Judith is appalled. But the PM is unconcerned, and has admitted …

    "They won't be the first bunch of gang leaders that have engaged with ministers of all sorts of governments in the past and potentially in the future…

    We now await a strong statement of condemnation from the Minister of Police and Minister of Corrections, a certain Judith Collins …

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/sharples-gang-meeting-not-issue-pm

  7. weka 7

    fuck National are tedious. It's just blatant as fuck politicking dog whistles as a set up for the next election.

    • observer 7.1

      "Tedious" is exactly the word. It's not just that they are doing it, but that it is entirely predictable and insincere, and anyone who has the slightest awareness knows this. Hell, anyone who's ever read a history book knows this.

      Judith Collins does the role-play today, Clayton Cosgrove did the role-play back when National were in power (as in ODT link), it's what they do, so why can't reporters Google for 5 seconds and then call them on it? It's the pretence that is so annoying … when we all know it's not good faith, why pretend otherwise? (For clicks, I guess).

    • Treetop 7.2

      Tediously stale. Collins will not allow an opportunity to attack the PM or a government minister to go by.

  8. Stuart Munro 8

    Well I am encouraged by this – the government didn't take the easy but second rate path of ignoring the difficulty of fighting Covid in the demimonde – they grasped the nettle and did their absolute best, recruiting every ally they could get us.

    And props to the gangs fighting for the team of 5 million too. We used to get a few gang folk at sea. They wanted to prove they were staunch – and we had all this work to do – it worked out pretty well. The more the government finds constructive outlets for the energy of gangs, the better I'll like it.

  9. rod 9

    I have always thought that gang members were tough, fearless macho guys, but it seems now, that some are frightened of a pin prick in their arms. There you go.indecision

    • Descendant Of Smith 9.1

      Many of them go in and out of pyschiatric units as well. Others commit suicide. Others hold down jobs.

      They aren't a homogenous group of people.

      • Gezza 9.1.1

        Yup. The ringleader of a small group of ratbag kids who harassed us for several months when my late wife & I moved to our current place in 2005 we learned had a gang dad who’d hanged himself.

        • Descendant Of Smith 9.1.1.1

          Many gang members live in a climate of fear – of the law, of prison, of going into the wrong territory, of each other, of their leaders… Living like that all ain't it cracked up to be. They are real fears as well – not like many of the fears middle class people have which are perceived. For most it is a shit life really. It isn't any surprise many end up mentally unwell or suicidal. Fear does shitty things to both your nervous system and your brain.

  10. tsmithfield 10

    I must admit the prospect of gang members being given a free pass doesn't sit well with me, though I understand the argument.

    The bigger issue that will piss a lot of people off is the number of much more deserving cases that can't get across.

    For instance, a guy on the radio last night who owns a building company but has over sixty houses he can't get his staff working on just over the border, even though his staff are all vaccinated and routinely tested.

    • Patricia Bremner 10.1

      They are not at risk and likely to pass the virus to others.. hard choices have to be made, and rules always create anomalies.

      • tsmithfield 10.1.1

        This guy said on the radio he had applied to MBIE six times and had been turned down every time.

        I understand that rules create anomalies. That is when real people can step in and over-ride those rules when it makes absolute sense to do so.

  11. RedLogix 11

    Fascinating how a middle class couple who break one COVID rule become Public Enemy No1 and vilified in the media and here for weeks – while a man who leads an organisation that exists solely in defiance of the law has suddenly become a hero.

    Fuck me.

    • Patricia Bremner 11.1

      Anyone who visits and works with possibly infected people is to be admired.

      That does not mean the other aspects won't matter when we have them vaccinated. I am glad our Health Advisors have common sense and the courage to connect.
      Are you saying these groups do not need the guidance from their trusted leadership in making connections? "They should be left to stew" Examine your rationale. We need more than knee jerk reactions.

      The middle class couple had the money to make other choices, and chose not to.

      • RedLogix 11.1.1

        @PB

        Well and good. I look forward to you consistently applying this new morality that 'admires' criminals while condemning people because 'they have choices'.

        This should be interesting.

    • Ad 11.2

      There's more rats to swallow coming up.

      • Patricia Bremner 11.2.1

        Yes I guess so, but this is a learn on the job situation, with a small time window to make critical decisions. We won't like some of them for sure.

    • Descendant Of Smith 11.3

      Plonker. Haven't hear anyone but you say he's a hero and most of us aren't vilifying anyone.

      Hyperbole much?

  12. Tricledrown 12

    Tsm covid is not fair gangs exist in all modern societies.

    We have one of the biggest wealth gaps of any developed economy where you have such embedded deprivation you have more gangs.

    I can understand the builders frustrations but it would need a lot of organisation to work with all industries who would be in similar situations.

    Building houses should be seen as an essential service because of the housing shortage is contributing to the tentacles of covid flourishing in overcrowded poor housing conditions.

    • Exactly. We don't need the housing shortage exacerbated as well as Covid. There needs to be some common sense rather than bloody-minded bureaucracy.

      • Patricia Bremner 12.1.1

        They tried that in Victoria and NSW and spread was huge. They shut all construction down.

        • tsmithfield 12.1.1.1

          But where staff are fully vaccinated and routinely tested, and they are going from one level three area to another??

          BTW, construction is one of the industries allowed to operate at level 3.

  13. Nat 13

    Yes, the Gang members who are getting permission to go into Auckland is weird…Sonny (Waikato – Mongrel Mob) is feuding with the Auckland Chapter of the mob over territory for the last decade…Michael Tam (Dunedin Mongrel Mob) is widely not trusted within the mob due to his money losing ventures…he escaped to the Hawkes Bay.
    I do not believe those two are in Auckland to help with the vaccine roll out within the Auckland underworld. I reckon they are using it as cover.

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