Russel Norman’s Campaign Conference Speech 2014: Going Solar
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2:59 pm, February 16th, 2014 - 239 comments
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The original speech is here.
Introduction: Standing on the threshold
The anticipation in the air at this conference is like no other that I can remember.
We are standing on the threshold of history — the moment when the Green Party forms New Zealand’s first green government.
We, as a nation, are about to embark on a new political journey led by compassionate values and smart leadership.
Assembled before me are our election candidates. Never before have we had so much talent and energy assembled in one place.
We’re building the biggest Green Team yet to fight this election and fight it fair.
We don’t accept campaign donations from casinos or oil companies.
And we have the most transparent, democratic list selection process of any political party. We are, at our very core, what a vibrant democracy can look like.
So here we are, standing on this threshold like a worker on the first day of a new job facing a world of potential and possibilities before us — but one with huge challenges that will demand our deepest wells of creativity and energy to solve.
We’re about to make history, but we can’t do this alone. We need to bring the country with us; share our vision for a smarter, greener, and fairer Aotearoa New Zealand.
This year, we will show New Zealand what a green government will look like.
How does prosperity look to New Zealanders raising young families, New Zealanders starting university, or New Zealanders starting their own businesses?
We have a profoundly hopeful vision for a richer New Zealand — a country where rivers run clear, our kids are happy, and there are good-paying jobs in a smarter, greener economy.
It will take vision and leadership to get us there and the Greens have a record of both.
Forty years ago we led the debate with what is the most profound new idea of the last century — that we live on a finite planet with finite natural resources.
This simple idea is changing the course of human history.
It is the idea that we can tap into the unlimited resources of human creativity and generosity so that we can live great lives while respecting the natural limits of the planet.
We were also the first political party to talk about the idea that growing inequality leaves everyone worse off.
We are the people that lead the debate about how to live good lives — good to each other and good to the planet.
This is very different to the alternative offered by National, which is about how to do more of the same.
More of the same is no longer working for most of us. More of the same is no longer working for our rivers. More of the same is no longer working for our climate.
Initiatives announced so far
Over the last year or so, we’ve announced a number of new initiatives that begin to demonstrate in a clear, concrete way what a green government will begin to deliver on the day after Election Day 2014. Let me recap that story so far.
In December 2012, we released our discussion paper about how to make the most of the expanding internet economy and information technology sector.
We proposed building a second fibre optic cable connecting New Zealand to the rest of the world and laying the foundation for an expanding ICT sector in New Zealand.
The current cable is a constraint on the development of the New Zealand ICT sector, both in terms of price and resilience. We have received strong support from across the ICT sector and will be making further announcements as the year progresses.
In January last year, Metiria launched our Home For Life package of initiatives designed to meaningfully put home ownership within the reach of thousands more Kiwi families while improving the lot for renters too.
The flagship policy in that package was our progressive ownership scheme, which gives young New Zealand families a leg up into their first home.
Around the time of the Budget in May last year, I announced a package of economic measures that will help address the New Zealand economy’s single largest vulnerability — our large and growing international debt.
This might not seem very exciting, but it could not be more important because the Greens are serious about running the New Zealand economy in a smart and responsible manner to ensure we live within our means and secure long-term, stable economic prosperity.
The package included our long-term commitment to raising a comprehensive tax on capital gains (excluding the family home), reforming the Reserve Bank’s mandate, and investing in a stronger, more sophisticated Kiwibank to break the near total monopoly foreign banks have on our banking sector.
Then we released our NZ Power plan in response to a lack of competition and rising electricity prices. We jointly announced with Labour our plan to save Kiwi families up to $300 per year on their home energy bills.
Our NZ Power plan will deliver cheaper and cleaner energy to households and provide the foundation to build a genuinely smart grid. It complements our hugely successful home insulation scheme and is the first of several significant announcements in the energy sector.
Most recently, we announced one of our smartest packages yet for dealing with child poverty and the detrimental impact it has on the educational opportunities of our most vulnerable children. How can you learn when you’re hungry?
We plan to set up hubs in lower decile schools that will bring together health, welfare, and other support services in one place to lessen the impact of poverty on a child’s learning.
Education is the best route out of poverty. Our proposal will remove the significant barriers poorer kids face before they’ve even opened up their exercise books.
And we’ll deliver one of the most effective child poverty reduction measures for a tenth of the cost of National’s tax cut package for the richest ten percent of New Zealanders.
This is what a smart and compassionate green government will look like.
Over the coming months, we plan to roll out further new measures to make sure New Zealand is a country we can be proud of.
Today, I want to focus on smarter greener economics and one part of our Green vision for energy freedom.
Green plans for energy freedom
Renewable electricity generation is now the fastest growing sector of electricity generation in the world.
According to the International Energy Agency, wind, solar, and hydro energy are set to overtake gas generation in the next couple of years to become the second largest source of electricity in the world.
As a result, green jobs are growing fast. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics found that the greener the industry, the higher the rate of job growth over the last decade.
The clean energy future is here and New Zealand has a lucky head-start in the electricity sector with three quarters of our electricity coming from renewable sources.
The Green Party plans to make New Zealand 100 percent renewable in electricity by 2030 – setting us free forever from dirty energy and the huge risks this poses to a stable climate.
New Zealand can show the world how to produce 100 percent pure electricity.
Having our electricity come exclusively from renewable sources will give us the freedom from ever higher electricity prices.
Having our electricity come exclusively from renewable sources will free us from the cost of carbon emissions and the hurt they will cause our children from a dangerously destabilised climate.
And as electricity comes to run more of our transport network, renewable energy will free us of the burden of the $8 billion yearly oil import bill. A bill that will only increase in the years ahead.
Even halving this bill gives New Zealand $4 billion a year to invest elsewhere in productive enterprise that creates jobs, while cutting greenhouse emissions. That is real freedom.
To help get us to 100 percent renewable, we’ll need new investment and policies to encourage energy efficiency and new technology to harness surplus energy from biofuels. Watch this space.
Today, I’m launching new policy that will empower New Zealand homeowners and businesses to play a part in creating a clean energy sector, while giving them more freedom over their use of power and the option to be small-scale generators.
This is all about the power of the sun.
Going Solar
Now when Maui and his brothers harnessed the sun it was a rather complex operation. They spent five days weaving flax ropes, travelled far to the East, hid under trees and bushes for 12 days and then made their move, risking their lives to catch and slow Tama-nui-te-Rā.
Thankfully it’s a whole lot easier these days. Solar energy is abundant, accessible and within a few years, is likely to be the cheapest source of power in many countries around the world.
In America, one home or business goes solar every four minutes.
More than a million Australian homes now have solar photovoltaic panels (PV) installed.
And many of you are probably familiar with how, on one hot summer’s day, Germany met close to half its midday electricity needs through solar power.
That’s half of Europe’s biggest and strongest economy running on sun.
And most parts of Germany get far less sun than New Zealand – Invercargill has roughly the same solar resource as Germany.
Jim Rogers, the recently retired head of the biggest energy utility in the US said that if he were entering the energy industry now, he’d be into rooftop solar – this from a man who’s been promoting nuclear, gas, and coal power for most of his career.
New Zealanders are increasingly going solar. Installations have jumped in the past two years, but from a low base.
The cost of solar has fallen dramatically. Between 2011 and last year, the price of installing PV dropped 36 percent.
It now costs about $10,000 to put in a 3kW PV system. That’s impressive when you consider it was about $40,000 in 2004.
Real New Zealanders are experiencing these benefits, like Philippa Johnson who installed solar on the roof of her North Shore home last year. Her monthly power bill is now down to $30.
Here in the audience I welcome Stu Selby and Erika Whittome, who live in a solar home with their baby girl Rosanna, who can tell you first-hand about how great it is.
The value of the New Zealand solar industry is now double what it was in 2011, and valued at about $42 million. This has meant green jobs and cheaper power for thousands.
However compared to other countries, New Zealand’s solar electricity industry has a lot of catching up to do.
And that’s why I’m launching our Solar Homes policy today. We need a step change in solar.
New Zealand electricity bills are too high — they’ve risen 67 percent ahead of inflation over the last 22 years.
Here in Auckland, people have seen their electricity bills go up 19 percent alone in the five years of a National Government. Wages are not keeping up with the rapidly rising costs of running a household. Power companies are making super profits.
NZ Power is one part of the solution, by introducing real competition into the market, but we need to make sure that NZ Power isn’t only efficient but also green. The plan we’re announcing today complements our NZ Power measures and also delivers more affordable power to Kiwis.
We don’t think big electricity company shareholders should be able to dictate the price of our power. We don’t think they should have this much control over what we do in our homes.
Call it energy freedom, call it energy independence, this is a policy that will let Kiwis take the power back and break free from the big energy companies.
It’s about being free of the worry and stress of rising power prices.
Under the Greens’ Solar Homes’ initiative, individuals and families will be able to get low-cost loans from government to install solar power on the roof of their home, so they can tap into free and clean power to generate their own electricity.
The biggest obstacle stopping most families from going solar today is the up-front cost. This is where we can leverage our government’s lower cost of borrowing to allow tens of thousands of homes and businesses to install solar power, at virtually no cost to the taxpayer.
Solar Homes loans will be repaid through rates and the loan attaches to the house. This allows families and businesses to invest without the concern they will lose their investment if they move house within a few years.
Once you start generating solar power, you will also be able to sell any surplus power back into the grid at a fair price.
A typical system will produce $1,000 of electricity a year at current prices, and cost $900 a year over 15 years to pay off, leaving the owner $100 better off each year.
Over 25 years, the average family unit will produce $28,000 worth of power without a single government subsidy in sight — just a loan guarantee over a very secure investment.
Our new Solar Homes initiative is a simple, low cost way to move towards our goal of a 100 percent clean and sustainable power supply.
Solar Homes will create up to 1,000 new green jobs and boost economic development throughout the regions. We learnt this month that the US solar industry now employs more people than coal and gas combined. We can be creating similar high-value, long-term jobs here in New Zealand.
For anyone thinking about going solar, start with two simple questions:
- Do you have roof space?
-
Does your roof get a decent amount of sun?
If you answered yes to both, you are a candidate for cheaper, cleaner power.
Our homes are our castles, right Metiria? They can also become our power sources.
We are a country rich in solar. Right now high-energy sun is hitting rooftops across New Zealand and most of it is going to waste. Let’s start harnessing it instead.
Many New Zealand homes are exposed annually to 20-30 times more energy from the sun than they actually use in electricity or gas. Solar power helps reduce household living costs while also reducing the cost to the planet.
With solar power on your roof, you know you are helping to do something good for the climate.
Most New Zealanders have already changed their lives in one way or another to help make a better world. Whether it’s recycling, taking the bus or train, cycling, walking, tree planting or composting, people are looking for a way to make a contribution to make the planet a better place for themselves and their kids.
But many are looking for ways to do more. We want to ensure that when the lights and heaters are on, it’s not costing the planet. With solar power, you can play a part.
Between 1990 and 2011, New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions from electricity generation rose by nearly 50%. The sector now produces 5 million tonnes of CO2 every year. This is not acceptable for a country that can have 100 percent of our electricity come from renewables.
New Zealand’s emissions are at their highest levels ever and trending up.
Since we signed up to the UN process in 1992, our emissions have risen nearly 60 percent. Latest Government figures project another 50 percent increase by 2030. We are going in the opposite direction to where we need to be going, and fast.
The Greens will put us back on track.
National wants to usher in an energy future defined by drilled oil, fracked gas and mined coal. But most Kiwis aren’t that short sighted. They want energy that’s enduring and sustainable — a New Zealand powered by clean energy.
If we can harness the power of the sun and wind, we are free from the need to frack and drill, free from all the environmental risks that come with fracking and drilling.
We estimate that up to 30,000 households will say yes to Solar Homes over the first term of government.
As part of our modeling we looked at the extraordinary uptake of the Greens’ Heat Smart home insulation initiative.
Over 230,000 homes around New Zealand (60,000 in Auckland alone) are now warmer, drier and healthier thanks to our scheme. These uptake numbers broke all initial estimates.
Heat Smart was a Green Party policy achieved from outside Government. Imagine what we’ll be able to do once we’re in.
Solar Homes is one part of a bigger, more comprehensive energy package from the Greens. It builds on previous energy announcements like NZ Power and the tremendous success of the home insulation scheme and there will be more to come.
My colleague, Gareth Hughes, last year launched a set of complementary measures to ensure that households with rooftop solar selling surplus power to the grid get a fair price, set by an independent umpire.
We will amend the Electricity Industry Act to guarantee a fair price to households that feed electricity back into the grid. At the moment, the price is set month-by-month and is not enough of an incentive or guarantee for the greater uptake of small-scale renewable energy generation.
We want to ensure that people feel excited about generating their own power — we want to help make it a no-brainer for people with a roof and some sun.
We want Kiwis to live smarter so that we can prosper while living well with our natural environment.
Summary
Solar Homes, coupled with NZ Power, are the building blocks of a cleaner, cheaper, smarter electricity network that returns the power to New Zealanders.
Ultimately, it’s all about energy freedom and freedom from a future dependent on fossil fuels and climate disaster.
It’s what a smarter, greener economy looks like.
This is the New Zealand that I want our sons and daughters to grow up in.
It’s a New Zealand to get excited about — one that just keeps getting better and better.
Bring on the election.
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The NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi are saying that the Government should do the right thing and deliver minimum wage increases that don’t see workers fall further behind, in response to today’s announcement that the minimum wage will only be increased by 1.5%, well short of forecast inflation. “With inflation forecast ...5 days ago
- Crazy ’bout a Sharp-dressed Man
Oh, I weptFor daysFilled my eyesWith silly tearsOh, yeaBut I don'tCare no moreI don't care ifMy eyes get soreSongwriters: Paul Rodgers / Paul Kossoff. Read more ...5 days ago - How much should you worry about a collapse of the Atlantic conveyor belt?
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bob Henson In this aerial view, fingers of meltwater flow from the melting Isunnguata Sermia glacier descending from the Greenland Ice Sheet on July 11, 2024, near Kangerlussuaq, Greenland. According to the Programme for Monitoring of the Greenland Ice Sheet (PROMICE), the ...6 days ago
- 8% ACT Party Creates One Ring To Rule Them All
In August, I wrote an article about David Seymour1 with a video of his testimony, to warn that there were grave dangers to his Ministry of Regulation:David Seymour's Ministry of Slush Hides Far Greater RisksWhy Seymour's exorbitant waste of taxpayers' money could be the least of concernThe money for Seymour ...6 days ago - When austerity worsens public debt & cuts GDP
Willis is expected to have to reveal the bitter fiscal fruits of her austerity strategy in the HYEFU later today. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/TheKakaMōrena. Long stories short, the six things that matter in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, December 17 in The Kākā’s Dawn Chorus podcast ...6 days ago
- Govt to double number of toll roads
On Friday the government announced it would double the number of toll roads in New Zealand as well as make a few other changes to how toll roads are used in the country. The real issue though is not that tolling is being used but the suggestion it will make ...6 days ago
- Luxon’s pre-emptive strike
The Prime Minister yesterday engaged in what looked like a pre-emptive strike designed to counter what is likely to be a series of depressing economic statistics expected before the end of the week. He opened his weekly post-Cabinet press conference with a recitation of the Government’s achievements. “It certainly has ...6 days ago
- Gordon Campbell On The Coalition’s Empty Gestures, And Abortion Refusal As The New Slavery
This whooping cough story from south Auckland is a good example of the coalition government’s approach to social need – spend money on urging people to get vaccinated but only after you’ve cut the funding to where they could get vaccinated. This has been the case all year with public ...6 days ago
- More public service contempt of parliament
Back in 2023 the New Zealand Council for Civil Liberties raised concerns about the inherent conflict of interest involved in public service agencies supporting parliamentary select committees. Our parliament is run on a shoestring, so depends on the public service for advice. But public service agencies work for Ministers, not ...6 days ago
- If There Is A God
And if there is a GodI know he likes to rockHe likes his loud guitarsHis spiders from MarsAnd if there is a GodI know he's watching meHe likes what he seesBut there's trouble on the breezeSongwriter: William Patrick Corgan Read more ...6 days ago - A Lipstick Government
Here’s a quick round up of today’s political news:1. MORE FOOD BANKS, CHARITIES, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SHELTERS AND YOUTH SOCIAL SERVICES SET TO CLOSE OR SCALE BACK AROUND THE COUNTRY AS GOVT CUTS FUNDINGSome of Auckland's largest foodbanks are warning they may need to close or significantly reduce food parcels after ...6 days ago - NZCTU open letter to Treasury on undue restrictions on restricted briefings
Iain Rennie, CNZMSecretary and Chief Executive to the TreasuryDear Secretary, Undue restrictions on restricted briefings This week, the Treasury barred representatives from four organisations, including the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions Te Kauae Kaimahi, from attending the restricted briefing for the Half-Year Economic and Fiscal Update. We had been ...6 days ago
- Why you won’t hear me advocate for electric cars
This is a guest post by Tim Adriaansen, a community, climate, and accessibility advocate. I won’t shut up about climate breakdown, and whenever possible I try to shift the focus of a climate conversation towards solutions. But you’ll almost never hear me give more than a passing nod to ...7 days ago
- Coalition forced to back down on tolling Pahiatua track
A grassroots backlash has forced a backdown from Brown, but he is still eyeing up plenty of tolls for other new roads. And the pressure is on Willis to ramp up the Government’s austerity strategy. Photo: Getty ImagesMōrena. Long stories short, the six things that matter in Aotearoa’s political economy ...7 days ago
- Thank You
Hi all,I'm pretty overwhelmed by all your messages and emails today; thank you so very much.As much as my newsletter this morning was about money, and we all need to earn money, it was mostly about world domination if I'm honest. 😉I really hate what’s happening to our country, and ...7 days ago - 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #50
A listing of 23 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, December 8, 2024 thru Sat, December 14, 2024. Listing by Category Like last week's summary this one contains the list of articles twice: based on categories and based on ...7 days ago
- Making Gravy
I started writing this morning about Hobson’s Pledge, examining the claims they and their supporters make, basically ripping into them. But I kept getting notifications coming through, and not good ones.Each time I looked up, there was another un-subscription message, and I felt a bit sicker at the thought of ...1 week ago - Nothing here but the shadows
Once, long before there was Harry and Meghan and Dodi and all those episodes of The Crown, they came to spend some time with us, Charles and Diana. Was there anyone in the world more glamorous than the Princess of Wales?Dazzled as everyone was by their company, the leader of ...1 week ago - The United Right: the FSU’s Continued Efforts to Undermine Academia
The collective right have a problem.The entire foundation for their world view is antiscientific. Their preferred economic strategies have been disproven. Their whole neoliberal model faces accusations of corporate corruption and worsening inequality. Climate change not only definitely exists, its rapid progression demands an immediate and expensive response in order ...1 week ago
- Showing the Americans how to do it
Just ten days ago, South Korea's president attempted a self-coup, declaring martial law and attempting to have opposition MPs murdered or arrested in an effort to seize unconstrained power. The attempt was rapidly defeated by the national assembly voting it down and the people flooding the streets to defend democracy. ...1 week ago
- 2 Men, 1 Haircut
Hi,“What I love about New Zealanders is that sometimes you use these expressions that as Americans we have no idea what those things mean!"I am watching a 30-something year old American ramble on about how different New Zealanders are to Americans. It’s his podcast, and this man is doing a ...1 week ago - Chris Penk’s Hate Parade
What Chris Penk has granted holocaust-denier and equal-opportunity-bigot Candace Owens is not “freedom of speech”. It’s not even really freedom of movement, though that technically is the right she has been granted. What he has given her is permission to perform. Freedom of SpeechIn New Zealand, the right to freedom ...1 week ago - Tell me a story
All those tears on your cheeksJust like deja vu flow nowWhen grandmother speaksSo tell me a story (I'll tell you a story)Spell it out, I can't hear (What do you want to hear?)Why you wear black in the morning?Why there's smoke in the air? Songwriter: Greg Johnson.Mōrena all ☀️Something a ...1 week ago - As Our Power Lessens: Accepted
2024 is now officially my best-ever year for short stories. My 1,850-word dark fantasy piece, As Our Power Lessens, has been accepted for the upcoming solstice edition of Eternal Haunted Summer (https://eternalhauntedsummer.com/), thereby making that six published short stories for the calendar year. As always, see the Bibliography page for ...1 week ago
- National’s Greatest Misses 2023-4
National has only been in power for a year, but everywhere you look, its choices are taking New Zealand a long way backwards. In no particular order, here are the National Government's Top 50 Greatest Misses of its first year in power. ...2 days ago - Release: Minister’s plan for tertiary sector a backwards step
Returning to the model that was failing for most polytechnics and Institutes of Technology is not the answer. ...2 days ago
- Release: National buries 1019 planned homes
It’s been revealed that National has cancelled 60 percent of its housing projects planned before mid-2025 amidst housing woes. ...2 days ago
- Release: Rule-Czar bill a right-wing power grab
The Government is quietly undertaking consultation on the dangerous Regulatory Standards Bill over the Christmas period to avoid too much attention. ...2 days ago
- Release: Why not both? Luxon shuns Waitangi celebrations
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon is running away from problems of his own creation, with his decision not to go to Waitangi. ...3 days ago
- Govt’s ‘free speech’ legislation stokes fear, not freedom
The Government’s planned changes to the freedom of speech obligations of universities is little more than a front for stoking the political fires of disinformation and fear, placing teachers and students in the crosshairs. ...3 days ago - Release: Nicola Willis spirals country deeper into recession
The economy shrank 1% this quarter and New Zealand has tumbled into the depths of a recession of Nicola Willis’ making. ...3 days ago
- Release: Hikes for company directors but not ordinary Kiwis
Working people are going backwards while company directors are being given huge pay hikes. ...4 days ago
- ECE no place to cut corners
The Ministry of Regulation’s report into Early Childhood Education (ECE) in Aotearoa raises serious concerns about the possibility of lowering qualification requirements, undermining quality and risking worse outcomes for tamariki, whānau, and kaiako. ...4 days ago
- Release: Strengthening Justice Services for New Zealanders
A Bill to modernise the role of Justices of the Peace (JP), ensuring they remain active in their communities and connected with other JPs, has been put into the ballot. ...4 days ago
- Release: Labour will continue fight against destructive projects
Labour will continue to fight unsustainable and destructive projects that are able to leap-frog environment protection under National’s Fast-track Approvals Bill. ...5 days ago
- Green Government will revoke dodgy fast-track projects
The Green Party has warned that a Green Government will revoke the consents of companies who override environmental protections as part of Fast-Track legislation being passed today. ...5 days ago
- Government for the wealthy keeps pushing austerity
The Green Party says the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update shows how the Government is failing to address the massive social and infrastructure deficits our country faces. ...5 days ago
- Release: Visa changes let migrant workers be paid less
The Government’s latest move to reduce the earnings of migrant workers will not only hurt migrants but it will drive down the wages of Kiwi workers. ...5 days ago
- Release: Nightmare before Christmas for Nicola Willis
With more debt and a larger deficit, Nicola Willis’ reputation is in tatters after her failure to return the Government’s books to surplus. ...5 days ago
- Warning to Fast-Track Applicants – ‘Exploit the Whenua, Face the Consequences’
Te Pāti Māori has this morning issued a stern warning to Fast-Track applicants with interests in mining, pledging to hold them accountable through retrospective liability and to immediately revoke Fast-Track consents under a future Te Pāti Māori government. This warning comes ahead of today’s third reading of the Fast-Track Approvals ...5 days ago
- Release: Govt cuts wages for lowest paid NZers… again
For the second year running, the government has effectively cut wages for the lowest paid workers in New Zealand. ...5 days ago
- Govt’s miserly 1.5% minimum wage will take workers backwards
The Government’s announcement today of a 1.5 per cent increase to minimum wage is another blow for workers, with inflation projected to exceed the increase, meaning it’s a real terms pay reduction for many. ...5 days ago
- Release: Govt shirking responsibility for rate hikes
All the Government has achieved from its announcement today is to continue to push responsibility back on councils for its own lack of action to help bring down skyrocketing rates. ...6 days ago
- Luxon’s ‘localism’ strikes again
The Government has used its final post-Cabinet press conference of the year to punch down on local government without offering any credible solutions to the issues our councils are facing. ...6 days ago
- Release: Govt breaks promise on EV chargers
The Government has failed to keep its promise to ‘super charge’ the EV network, delivering just 292 chargers - less than half of the 670 chargers needed to meet its target. ...6 days ago
- Greens call for end to subsidies for Methanex
The Green Party is calling for the Government to stop subsidising the largest user of the country’s gas supplies, Methanex, following a report highlighting the multi-national’s disproportionate influence on energy prices in Aotearoa. ...6 days ago
- Govt child poverty targets allow for increase in poverty
The Green Party is appalled with the Government’s new child poverty targets that are based on a new ‘persistent poverty’ measure that could be met even with an increase in child poverty. ...1 week ago
- Release: Four weeks annual leave under threat
The Government’s attack on workers continues with news it is scrapping work on the Holidays Act. ...1 week ago
- Govt’s emissions plan for measly 1% reduction
New independent analysis has revealed that the Government’s Emissions Reduction Plan (ERP) will reduce emissions by a measly 1 per cent by 2030, failing to set us up for the future and meeting upcoming targets. ...1 week ago
- Greens stand in solidarity with Whakaata Māori on sad day
The loss of 27 kaimahi at Whakaata Māori and the end of its daily news bulletin is a sad day for Māori media and another step backwards for Te Tiriti o Waitangi justice. ...1 week ago
- Sanctions regime to create more hardship for families
Yesterday the Government passed cruel legislation through first reading to establish a new beneficiary sanction regime that will ultimately mean more households cannot afford the basic essentials. ...1 week ago
- Govt gifts renters housing anxiety for Christmas
Today's passing of the Government's Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill–which allows landlords to end tenancies with no reason–ignores the voice of the people and leaves renters in limbo ahead of the festive season. ...1 week ago
- Release: National Party urged to support modern slavery legislation
Labour is urging the Prime Minister to walk the talk and support legislation combating modern slavery. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour has lost confidence in the Speaker
The Speaker of the New Zealand Parliament made an unprecedented decision on the government amendment to the Fast Track Approvals Bill last night. ...2 weeks ago
- One year on, still no progress on new ferries
Today’s announcement from the Government on its plan for new ferries throws more uncertainty on the future of the country’s rail network. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Nicola Willis’ smaller ferries will cost more
After wasting a year, Nicola Willis has delivered a worse deal for the Cook Strait ferries that will end up being more expensive and take longer to arrive. ...2 weeks ago
- Bill to sanction unlawful occupation of Palestine
Green Party co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick has today launched a Member’s Bill to sanction Israel for its unlawful presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, as the All Out For Gaza rally reaches Parliament. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour fully supports greyhound racing ban
The Government has done the right thing in moving to ban greyhound racing. ...2 weeks ago
- Greyhound racing industry ban marks new era for animal welfare
After years of advocacy, the Green Party is very happy to hear the Government has listened to our collective voices and announced the closure of the greyhound racing industry, by 1 August 2026. ...2 weeks ago
- Rangatahi voices must be centred in Government’s Relationship and Sexuality Education refresh
In response to a new report from ERO, the Government has acknowledged the urgent need for consistency across the curriculum for Relationship and Sexuality Education (RSE) in schools. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt introduces archaic anti-worker legislation
The Green Party is appalled at the Government introducing legislation that will make it easier to penalise workers fighting for better pay and conditions. ...2 weeks ago
- Winston Peters – Kinleith Mill Speech
Thank you for the invitation to speak with you tonight on behalf of the political party I belong to - which is New Zealand First. As we have heard before this evening the Kinleith Mill is proposing to reduce operations by focusing on pulp and discontinuing “lossmaking paper production”. They say that they are currently consulting on the plan to permanently shut ...2 weeks ago - Swarbrick calls on Auckland Mayor to end delay of revival of St James Theatre
Auckland Central MP, Chlöe Swarbrick, has written to Mayor Wayne Brown requesting he stop the unnecessary delays on St James Theatre’s restoration. ...2 weeks ago
- He Ara Anamata: Greens launch Emissions Reduction Plan
Today, the Green Party of Aotearoa proudly unveils its new Emissions Reduction Plan–He Ara Anamata–a blueprint reimagining our collective future. ...2 weeks ago
- Internationally-trained doctors jump at chance to boost health workforce
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says Health New Zealand will move swiftly to support dozens of internationally-trained doctors already in New Zealand on their journey to employment here, after a tripling of sought-after examination places. “The Medical Council has delivered great news for hardworking overseas doctors who want to contribute ...11 hours ago - PM appoints business leader to APEC Business Advisory Council
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has appointed Sarah Ottrey to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). “At my first APEC Summit in Lima, I experienced firsthand the role that ABAC plays in guaranteeing political leaders hear the voice of business,” Mr Luxon says. “New Zealand’s ABAC representatives are very well respected and ...2 days ago
- New intelligence oversight appointments
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced four appointments to New Zealand’s intelligence oversight functions. The Honourable Robert Dobson KC has been appointed Chief Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants, and the Honourable Brendan Brown KC has been appointed as a Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants. The appointments of Hon Robert Dobson and Hon ...2 days ago
- New housing developments able to progress more quickly
Improvements in the average time it takes to process survey and title applications means housing developments can progress more quickly, Minister for Land Information Chris Penk says. “The government is resolutely focused on improving the building and construction pipeline,” Mr Penk says. “Applications to issue titles and subdivide land are ...2 days ago
- Actions to speed up air travel delivering results
The Government’s measures to reduce airport wait times, and better transparency around flight disruptions is delivering encouraging early results for passengers ahead of the busy summer period, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Improving the efficiency of air travel is a priority for the Government to give passengers a smoother, more reliable ...2 days ago
- Ending contracted emergency housing in Rotorua
The Government today announced the intended closure of the Apollo Hotel as Contracted Emergency Housing (CEH) in Rotorua, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. This follows a 30 per cent reduction in the number of households in CEH in Rotorua since National came into Government. “Our focus is on ending CEH in the Whakarewarewa area starting ...2 days ago
- Vocational education and training decisions support return to regions
The Government will reshape vocational education and training to return decision making to regions and enable greater industry input into work-based learning Tertiary Education and Skills Minister, Penny Simmonds says. “The redesigned system will better meet the needs of learners, industry, and the economy. It includes re-establishing regional polytechnics that ...2 days ago
- Reducing the environmental impact of synthetic refrigerants
The Government is taking action to better manage synthetic refrigerants and reduce emissions caused by greenhouse gases found in heating and cooling products, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds says. “Regulations will be drafted to support a product stewardship scheme for synthetic refrigerants, Ms. Simmonds says. “Synthetic refrigerants are found in a ...2 days ago
- Ngāruawāhia section of Waikato Expressway back to 4 lanes for Christmas
People travelling on State Highway 1 north of Hamilton will be relieved that remedial works and safety improvements on the Ngāruawāhia section of the Waikato Expressway were finished today, with all lanes now open to traffic, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“I would like to acknowledge the patience of road users ...2 days ago
- Appointments to the ENZ board
Tertiary Education and Skills Minister, Penny Simmonds, has announced a new appointment to the board of Education New Zealand (ENZ). Dr Erik Lithander has been appointed as a new member of the ENZ board for a three-year term until 30 January 2028. “I would like to welcome Dr Erik Lithander to the ...3 days ago
- Government to celebrate Waitangi Day around NZ
The Government will have senior representatives at Waitangi Day events around the country, including at the Waitangi Treaty Grounds, but next year Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has chosen to take part in celebrations elsewhere. “It has always been my intention to celebrate Waitangi Day around the country with different ...3 days ago
- More gangs added to Gangs Act list
Two more criminal gangs will be subject to the raft of laws passed by the Coalition Government that give Police more powers to disrupt gang activity, and the intimidation they impose in our communities, Police Minister Mark Mitchell says. Following an Order passed by Cabinet, from 3 February 2025 the ...3 days ago
- Judicial appointment announced
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Justice Christian Whata as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Whata’s appointment as a Judge of the Court of Appeal will take effect on 1 August 2025 and fill a vacancy created by the retirement of Hon Justice David Goddard on ...3 days ago
- GDP data highlights importance of growth
The latest economic figures highlight the importance of the steps the Government has taken to restore respect for taxpayers’ money and drive economic growth, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Data released today by Stats NZ shows Gross Domestic Product fell 1 per cent in the September quarter. “Treasury and most ...3 days ago
- Strengthening Free Speech in Universities
Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Minister of Education David Seymour today announced legislation changes to strengthen freedom of speech obligations on universities. “Freedom of speech is fundamental to the concept of academic freedom and there is concern that universities seem to be taking a more risk-averse ...3 days ago
- Launch of Emergency Cellular Priority Service
Police Minister, Mark Mitchell, and Internal Affairs Minister, Brooke van Velden, today launched a further Public Safety Network cellular service that alongside last year’s Cellular Roaming roll-out, puts globally-leading cellular communications capability into the hands of our emergency responders. The Public Safety Network’s new Cellular Priority service means Police, Wellington ...3 days ago
- Minister reopens Mangamuka Gorge
State Highway 1 through the Mangamuka Gorge has officially reopened today, providing a critical link for Northlanders and offering much-needed relief ahead of the busy summer period, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“The Mangamuka Gorge is a vital route for Northland, carrying around 1,300 vehicles per day and connecting the Far ...3 days ago
- Funding confirmed for second Ashburton Bridge
The Government has welcomed decisions by the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) and Ashburton District Council confirming funding to boost resilience in the Canterbury region, with construction on a second Ashburton Bridge expected to begin in 2026, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Delivering a second Ashburton Bridge to improve resilience and ...3 days ago
- Government boosts support for avian influenza response
The Government is backing the response into high pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) in Otago, Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard says. “Cabinet has approved new funding of $20 million to enable MPI to meet unbudgeted ongoing expenses associated with the H7N6 response including rigorous scientific testing of samples at the enhanced PC3 ...3 days ago
- Levelling the playing field for media advertising
Legislation that will repeal all advertising restrictions for broadcasters on Sundays and public holidays has passed through first reading in Parliament today, Media Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “As a growing share of audiences get their news and entertainment from streaming services, these restrictions have become increasingly redundant. New Zealand on ...4 days ago
- Inspector-General of Defence appointed
Today the House agreed to Brendan Horsley being appointed Inspector-General of Defence, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Mr Horsley’s experience will be invaluable in overseeing the establishment of the new office and its support networks. “He is currently Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, having held that role since June 2020. ...4 days ago
- Fire and Emergency New Zealand final levy rates confirmed
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government has agreed to the final regulations for the levy on insurance contracts that will fund Fire and Emergency New Zealand from July 2026. “Earlier this year the Government agreed to a 2.2 percent increase to the rate of levy. Fire ...4 days ago
- More AML relief on the way for Kiwi businesses
The Government is delivering regulatory relief for New Zealand businesses through changes to the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act. “The Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Amendment Bill, which was introduced today, is the second Bill – the other being the Statutes Amendment Bill - that ...4 days ago
- Hawke’s Bay Expressway moving at pace
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed further progress on the Hawke’s Bay Expressway Road of National Significance (RoNS), with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board approving funding for the detailed design of Stage 1, paving the way for main works construction to begin in late 2025.“The Government is moving at ...4 days ago
- Government seeks partnerships to plant trees on Crown-owned-land
The Government today released a request for information (RFI) to seeking interest in partnerships to plant trees on Crown-owned land with low farming and conservation value (excluding National Parks) Forestry Minister Todd McClay announced. “Planting trees on Crown-owned land will drive economic growth by creating more forestry jobs in our regions, providing more wood ...4 days ago
- Wide ranging legislation to make justice system more efficient
Court timeliness, access to justice, and improving the quality of existing regulation are the focus of a series of law changes introduced to Parliament today by Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee. The three Bills in the Regulatory Systems (Justice) Amendment Bill package each improve a different part of the ...4 days ago
- Diverse skills in community trust appointments
A total of 41 appointments and reappointments have been made to the 12 community trusts around New Zealand that serve their regions, Associate Finance Minister Shane Jones says. “These trusts, and the communities they serve from the Far North to the deep south, will benefit from the rich experience, knowledge, ...4 days ago
- Torture redress for survivors of the Lake Alice Unit
The Government has confirmed how it will provide redress to survivors who were tortured at the Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital Child and Adolescent Unit (the Lake Alice Unit). “The Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care found that many of the 362 children who went through the Lake Alice Unit between 1972 and ...4 days ago
- A busy year in the House
It has been a busy, productive year in the House as the coalition Government works hard to get New Zealand back on track, Leader of the House Chris Bishop says. “This Government promised to rebuild the economy, restore law and order and reduce the cost of living. Our record this ...4 days ago
- Consultation opens on working with engineered stone
“Accelerated silicosis is an emerging occupational disease caused by unsafe work such as engineered stone benchtops. I am running a standalone consultation on engineered stone to understand what the industry is currently doing to manage the risks, and whether further regulatory intervention is needed,” says Workplace Relations and Safety Minister ...4 days ago
- Greater reporting on Treaty settlement commitments
Mehemea he pai mō te tangata, mahia – if it’s good for the people, get on with it. Enhanced reporting on the public sector’s delivery of Treaty settlement commitments will help improve outcomes for Māori and all New Zealanders, Māori Crown Relations Minister Tama Potaka says. Compiled together for the ...4 days ago
- New appointments to the Charities Registration Board
Mr Roger Holmes Miller and Ms Tarita Hutchinson have been appointed to the Charities Registration Board, Community and Voluntary Sector Minister Louise Upston says. “I would like to welcome the new members joining the Charities Registration Board. “The appointment of Ms Hutchinson and Mr Miller will strengthen the Board’s capacity ...4 days ago
- Building consent processing times improve
More building consent and code compliance applications are being processed within the statutory timeframe since the Government required councils to submit quarterly data, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “In the midst of a housing shortage we need to look at every step of the build process for efficiencies ...5 days ago
- Faster access to support through Innovation Fund
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey is proud to announce the first three recipients of the Government’s $10 million Mental Health and Addiction Community Sector Innovation Fund which will enable more Kiwis faster access to mental health and addiction support. “This fund is part of the Government’s commitment to investing in ...5 days ago
- New Zealand to assist Vanuatu on earthquake response
New Zealand is providing Vanuatu assistance following yesterday's devastating earthquake, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. "Vanuatu is a member of our Pacific family and we are supporting it in this time of acute need," Mr Peters says. "Our thoughts are with the people of Vanuatu, and we will be ...5 days ago
- Government takes steps to reduce card fees for Kiwis
The Government welcomes the Commerce Commission’s plan to reduce card fees for Kiwis by an estimated $260 million a year, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says.“The Government is relentlessly focused on reducing the cost of living, so Kiwis can keep more of their hard-earned income and live a ...5 days ago
- Review recommends ECE regulation shakeup
Regulation Minister David Seymour has welcomed the Early Childhood Education (ECE) regulatory review report, the first major report from the Ministry for Regulation. The report makes 15 recommendations to modernise and simplify regulations across ECE so services can get on with what they do best – providing safe, high-quality care ...5 days ago
- Offshore Renewable Energy Bill passes first reading
The Government‘s Offshore Renewable Energy Bill to create a new regulatory regime that will enable firms to construct offshore wind generation has passed its first reading in Parliament, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says.“New Zealand currently does not have a regulatory regime for offshore renewable energy as the previous government failed ...5 days ago
- Local Government (Water Services) Bill passes first reading
Legislation to enable new water service delivery models that will drive critical investment in infrastructure has passed its first reading in Parliament, marking a significant step towards the delivery of Local Water Done Well, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly say.“Councils and voters ...5 days ago
- Gene Technology Bill passes first reading
New Zealand is one step closer to reaping the benefits of gene technology with the passing of the first reading of the Gene Technology Bill, Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins says. "This legislation will end New Zealand's near 30-year ban on gene technology outside the lab and is ...5 days ago
- Signs of the hīkoi: More than just ‘words on cardboard’
The placards seen at the Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti conveyed "huge kōrero with immediacy", expert says: "People know the power of the word." ...7 hours ago - A final Ode to .. King Luxon
Cosmic CatastropheThe year draws to a close.King Luxon has grown tired of the long eveningsListening to the dreary squabbling of his Triumvirate.He strolls up to the top floor of the PalaceTo consult with his Astronomer Royal.The Royal Telescope scans the skies,And King Luxon stares up into the heavensFrom the terrestrial ...15 hours ago - A hater and an enthusiast review The Royal Free by Carl Shuker
Spinoff editor Mad Chapman and books editor Claire Mabey debate Carl Shuker’s new novel about… an editor. Claire: Hello Mad, you just finished The Royal Free – overall impressions? Mad: Hi Claire, I literally just put the book down and I would have to say my immediate impression is ...16 hours ago - Survive to 25 (December, that is)
Christmas and its buildup are often lonely, hard and full of unreasonable expectations. Here’s how to make it to Jesus’s birthday and find the little bit of joy we all deserve. Have you found this year relentless? Has the latest Apple update “fucked up your life”? Have you lost two ...16 hours ago
- All I want for Christmas is modern day slavery legislation
Despite overwhelming public and corporate support, the government has stalled progress on a modern day slavery law. That puts us behind other countries – and makes Christmas a time of tragedy rather than joy, argues Shanti Mathias. Picture the scene on Christmas Day. Everyone replete with nice things to eat, ...16 hours ago
- Israeli-American historian describes attacks on Gaza as ‘war of annihilation’
Asia Pacific Report “It looks like Hiroshima. It looks like Germany at the end of World War Two,” says an Israeli-American historian and professor of holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University about the horrifying reality of Gaza. Professor Omer Bartov, has described Israel’s ongoing war on Gaza as an ...19 hours ago - NZ govt plans to make ‘heavy handed’ change to free speech rules for universities
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As Bad 12 says over on Open Mike, feeding solar energy straight into the Grid via a smartmeter without the need for batteries, makes the policy not just good but great!
Yep what a great statement to open the election year from Russell Norman, and by that i mean GREAT in capitals,
Lets standardize and simplify the system of using solar energy, take the battery component out of a solar system and carve a large chunk of the cost of that system and it’s maintainence out of the equation at the onset,
The simplified equation is for the solar panels to generate electricity that would feed a smart meter capable of converting the electricity to 240 volts and from there, into the wiring that brings electricity into the home and thus into the National Grid, that cuts out the need for expensive batteries which in my opinion are a total waste of resources and a high maintainence cost in any solar system,
In conjunction with the Labour/Green plan to have the Government act as the single wholesaler, a nice dovetail is easily created where the household power generated from solar would be sold to the Government wholesaler at wholesale price and such household solar generation would be bought first by the Government wholesaler befor the electricity of the major generators,
The household generator of solar would then receive a credit on their monthly power bill which would show power generated and power bought from the retailer, a Government computer simply telling the retailer what that credit on the household bill, there only need be a mechanism for the Government wholesaler to reimburse the retailer for that credit,
That might sound a complex system to set up, but its not, especially given the initial numbers at the start will be small(ish), the (ish) in consideration of what the uptake of the Green home insulation scheme turned out to be,
All in all a BIG UPS to Russell Norman and the Green Party for what is Smart economics,and, Smart enviromental action in an entirely positive vein,(no shower-heads or light bulbs in sight), this is a WIN for the consumer and a WIN for the enviroment, in other words one hell of a WIN/WIN for us all…
The battery issue is tricky. In some situations batteries make sense. The national grid is not very resilient or future proof. A big quake along the Alpine Fault is expected to take out most of the power to the South Island. As bad as that would be now, given what we know about NZ’s impaired capacity to recover after Chch, imagine that in 20 years time when the pressures of Peak Oil and GFC are brought to bear. Myself, I’d choose batteries.
However, if the national grid was decentralised, and local areas were able to meet their own power generation needs, then the need for batteries would decrease hugely. Even within cities, utilities should be decentralised but connected (I seem to remember this was a lesson from Chch).
In the meantime, it looks to me like Norman is signalling the power companies to get into battery supply if they are worried about loss of profits from the govt controlling the cost of buying back power from households, but that the long term view is local micro generation.
But, yeah, batteries… expensive infrastructure spread out into households, and significant environmental issues. Don’t know if those are worse or better than what we have now.
Weka, consider this equation not as being critical of you, your attitude to the Alpine Fault, or some other disaster and the wish to future proof your lifestyle against this is pretty normal human behavior,
However, if the cost of future proofing your current lifestyle from an event that may or may not happen in your lifetime or even that of your children is the poisoning of any number of third world labourers, many of them who would be children, would that be acceptable,
The use of a mass of batteries in solar generation, unless the consumer is off grid, in my view considering the resources of production needed and what the destination of such a mass of batteries upon them reaching the end of their useful life would be is best described as a luxury,
Personally in the face of a natural disaster i would rather walk in the shoes of a peasant child of the sub-continent likely to be paid the equivalent of 2 cents a day while being poisoned taking apart batteries no longer of use in our solar systems by simply going without for a while in terms of electricity as opposed to the alternative luxury of having batteries in the system and being responsible for the carnage likely to be caused in the disposal of those batteries…
Grid-tied solar is the de-facto installation for solar and has been for many years now, not some exotic thing that is an extra add-on. I’m sure that’s what the $10k for 3 kilowatt example in his speech is talking about.
“the defacto installation” – citation needed. My sparky says far more people just get solar hot water. Citation needed for that too 🙂
I’m talking about solar power installations.
For solar power installations, the de-facto installation is grid-tied. Simply because it’s usually at least $6-7k cheaper than getting batteries, which need to be replaced every ~10 years for a similar price, and unless you build a via big solar array and large battery bank (which significantly increases the $ even further) or you use a very modicum of power, you’re going to need a connection to the grid for your power anyway.
Your response is akin to replying to someone asking which breed of dog to get “have you considered a persian cat?”.
And yes, solar hot water is a lot more popular, because it’s more efficient when it comes to heating water. Solar PV has the benefit that the solar gain can be used for all electrical appliances in the house, eg fridge, lights, cooking, not just the hot water. I believe the cost of solar PV doesn’t beat out solar hot water yet, but in 5 years it probably will. See my post further down wondering whether this policy will cover solar hot water or not. I’ve also sent an email to Russel asking the same, and if not, the explanation why not.
However, as far as “bangs for your buck” goes, solar hot water is still the one to beat.
Yes.
Thanks.
bad12
Photovoltaic solar would benefit from kitset standardization, and I like your scheme of using the grid as effective storage. However, you do really want some battery capacity to help smooth out the system transistions that can fry semi-compatible electronics. This, in Saturday’s ODT suggests an interesting combo of vehicle and battery:
” Mr Bruggemann built his EV for $20,000 using New Zealand componentry and his and others’ know-how. The vehicle has clocked up 20,000km without missing a beat.
His latest innovative project is turning the vehicle into a giant battery capable of providing three days’ power for his house. It will be a New Zealand first.”
http://www.odt.co.nz/lifestyle/magazine/291555/powering-future
I like the idea of having localised power generation – not necessarily just within homes, but within communities. And being able to store some of the power generated.
Looks like a pretty impressive scheme from The Greens.
+100…solar is the way to go….just need the initial money to put it on your roof
GO GREEN economics!
My father was showing me his new solar setup in Rotorua last weekend. Cost about $11k for the panels, DC to AC inverter, and installation.
But the nett difference (ie the amount of power he has had to buy) over the last couple of months has been ~5%. The amount my parents feed the grid during summer is close to the amount that they use. The actual dollar value is a bit bigger than that because of the cost/price differentials.
On the other hand, they haven’t finished covering the roof of the garage yet. They’re waiting to see what their bills are like, and what the prices of panels do.
It won’t change that much as you’d expect over winter. Their hot water and oven are on bottled gas. Their heating is from a ferociously efficient potbelly. The main extra draw will be from the lights.
Started to look at the enormous roof on the top of my apartment block…
There shouldn’t be any. What having price differentials means is that the power company is buying electricity from the household and then selling it back to them at a profit. This effectively removes the benefits for the household and gives them to the power company – hell, the power company doesn’t even have to pay to maintain them.
There’s twos way that having solar generation on houses works: First is when the amount the power retailer pays is the same as the amount it charges and the second is when the household lives within it’s own power generation. The most efficient is the first but this government isn’t concerned with efficiency – only profit for the new owners of the power generators.
So the government loans the money; but that money it loans is actually mine because I pay it to them via taxes. And so the government is going to lend me my own money at a cheap rate to solar power my own home, which I pay rates on.
I will then repay this loan (to myself) via my rates to the council (who is acting on behalf of me collecting it). If I default on the loan to myself, the council can sue me and sell my home, because the Rating Powers Act allows this.
And so the end result of this absurdity is that if I default on a loan to myself the council can sell my home and collect my loan to me. Do I then get my loan (to myself) back?
Wouldn’t it be easier just to lower taxes and other regulatory costs and let people spend their own money on their own solar energy? Or is that too simple for the Greens?
But Nick would you ever make a voluntary decision to invest in Solar Power?
Yes, I have thought about it a lot recently. We have a pool at our house which would benefit from solar heating too. And if I choose to take my own money from the State that will still be a voluntary decision!
Many years ago I heard of a person who owned a pool that set up solar heating for said pool. He just got some black plastic pipe and laid it across the garage roof. Designed as a siphon system so it didn’t add too much weight to the pools normal pump. He had to disconnect it after a few days because the pool was getting too hot.
Cost him a couple of hundred dollars but that was 20+ years ago.
BTW, this is how the Greens policy will actually work:
This policy by the Greens has nothing to do with tax. The householder goes down to the local council and takes out a loan. That loan will be financed through the governments ability to borrow which costs less than a private banks ability to borrow. The council/government will charge the same rate of interest that they’re charged making the loans costless to the government.
Of course, if the government just created the money like they should do then there wouldn’t be any interest charged at all and it would still be costless to the government.
yep – knew of a similar pool dug by a farmer (before the days of resource consent 🙂 ) who lined it with black plastic – got very hot in summer 🙂
Are you dim by birth Nick K, or is it simply dimness via deliberation, what Russell Norman is proposing is that this initiative will not need a budget from within the tax take,
The proposal is that the Government borrow the necessary coin which you would use to install your solar system, you would then pay back the Government the monies borrowed plus the interest it cost for the Government to borrow the money,
i believe Rob Muldoon did something similar with gas conversions in motor vehicles way back in the oil shock days…
It’s a bit silly to talk about taxes as though there’s a closed loop of money which is earned by you, paid by you, borrowed by you and repaid to you. We all pay taxes for the good of the whole community. This means some of the money you might borrow to install solar is your neighbour’s; on the other hand. some of the money spent on their healthcare might be yours.
You can’t reason with people only interested in selfish hoarding and personal consumption, the successful and “self-made” who believe that they birthed themselves and taught themselves to read and write.
+1
Wingnuts hate paying their taxes, or obeying any law that doesn’t suit their sense of entitlement.
I think it’s fantastic. Roll on 2014 election!
Fantastic, a voice for a brighter future – in the true sense of the word.
It is brilliant. I’d be there on Day -1 signing up to be one of the first!
Vector have a deal where they will install the photovoltaic panels to your house, and you pay a lease cost, and you can sell back on the hot days and buy on the cloudy days.
I hope the Greens policy is a hard shunt for the retailers to go even further than Vector.
Would be good to see this policy linked to the Labour homes policy.
It reads pretty well. It was even better being in the audience.
Full policy details https://www.greens.org.nz/solarhomes
Looks like a smart, well thought out policy. I can pick some holes in it (esp around solar batteries), but for the mainstream it’s a good start, and a good example of holistic thinking getting into mainstream politics (the policy works at multiple, interrelated levels across many areas).
I wonder if this policy will cover, or be expanded to cover, solar hot water heating as well as solar PV.
Solar hot water is simpler and a lower up-front cost than solar PV.
I’m planning to build an energy efficient house next year, so these policies are particularly interesting to me…
It’s smart and lateral thinking at it’s best. Yes, Nick K lateral thinking is something you and your fellow rwnjs are incapable of comprehending. Hence your tragically tunnel-visioned personas.
It would dovetail in beautifully with Labour’s housing policy too which makes me suspect there is accommodation occurring between Labour and the Greens.
Great stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_thinking
NZ was a world leader in lateral thinking once…
Yeah solar hot water is vastly more efficient than using photovoltaic solar panel electricity to heat water.
Great policy by the Green’s though!
Simon Bridges, the Minister of Stupid TV sound-bites, ”the Greens are printing money” ”the Greens are printing money” is the criticism of the Dunce without clue,
Wonder which bit of the plan to borrow the money to implement the solar energy roll out Bridges cant quite get His obviously damaged intellect to understand,
The money for the purchase/installation of a solar system will be repaid with the low interest rates by the home-owner,
The Government will simply be acting as a low interest loan company for the purposes of the solar installation,
Watch for Slippery the Prime Minister to turn feral some time this week as those that pull His strings demand He drown this announcement from the
Green Party in a large bucket of His drivel…
The Greens Solar policy has some merit. However, I doubt take up will be high.
The difference between the Government borrowing rate and adding borrowing onto your mortgage is not very much.
The key is whether the savings from purchasing energy from the grid can pay for the large upfront capital investment. Who is going to invest $18,000 to save $100 per month?
The savings are optimistic, and the investment can be risky – solar panels get damaged in storms – what will they do to insurance premiums? Can they be insured as part of a standard housing policy?
Panels become less efficient as they get older so after 10 years they are between 68-80% productive. That has not been factored in.
Also, New Zealanders move house on average every 7 years. That makes long term, risky investments in energy infrastructure a difficult proposition. Solar panels are hard to take with you.
If there is surplus electricity going back to the grid, can that be handled at multiple points of entry? If that requires additional investment, who will pay for it?
Ultimately solar will (or not) become popular when the market dictates it, Not when politicians decide to use the Crown’s borrowing (and taxing) powers to make it happen faster. In fact a Government promoted scheme can be undesirable if it causes low income people to shut their eyes to the risks of the investment. There are doubtless others than the ones I have alluded to here.
blessed be the name of the market…
The current electricity market is fucked……..
Or more correctly, doing a lot of rentier fucking of ordinary consumers.
The “electricity market” was never designed to be a real market but a trough for pseudo executives and a money generator for vested interests.
+1
No, it was designed to be a real market.
…but it is a real market failure.
by fuckwits
Which just proves that the market doesn’t work.
quod erat fucked
Markets are awesome.
So good it’s like having a four cylinder engine running on half a cylinder.
with a cracked piston
With a closed market as NZ it always could only be an experiment and for this the conditions are perfect. However, to sell the trial of economic theory as a solution by i.e. subsidizing the smelter with no guaranty for long term stay at extraordinary rates and at the same time have the homeowner footing the bill is …… indescribable really – I do not want to swear here. Yes, one needs to charge enough to maintain the network and improve in but the increases are incredible – up to 7% in the next 18 months! This can be called fleecing the market. There will be a lot of people who will have their power cut off and WINZ will tell them that they will get a couple of dollars. How ridicules – an economy should work for people not the other way around.
I take it you haven’t read the policy then. The loan is attached to the house (repaid via rates), not the homeowner.
What’s the govt lending rate that they will use?
“I take it you haven’t read the policy then. The loan is attached to the house (repaid via rates), not the homeowner.”
Changes nothing.
If the loan is attached to the house, it will be just as important that the investment delivers and those returns are not impeded by some of the factors I listed. Otherwise buyers will discount the price they pay for the house.
For most householders, solar is a relatively risky way to generate power. Shaving the financing cost doesn;t change that much. But at the margin, the promotion of the policy by a Government will tip some people into making the move. These people are more likely to be less intelligent and so on lower incomes, and less able to cope with adverse consequences.
Finally, New Zealand businesses need capital for productive investment. We don’t want to encourage unproductive investment.
The policy is chapéued by the aim of making 100% renewable by 2030. That is the real danger because trying to to that will be expensive and not in the country’s interests.
So in summary, solar is fine. Governments could have a role in ensuring people understand the risks and returns. But actively promoting solar is not a good thing. The optimum role out should be determined by the market.
More economic goobledegook and Voodoo economics from Shitlands.
Time to get NZ to 100% renewable electricity; I will be sorry to see your power shares tank but that’s the risk you took.
Like the $500 million subsidy to Rio Tinto
Schrillglands.
$30 million directly by shonKey.
$476million directed by shonkey from meridian.
Rio Tinto makes Record profit against falling commodity prices holding govts to ransom.
Not unlike woolworths /countdown.
Australians haven’t changed sincethe penal colony days
Bush rangers are Now boardroom rangers
+++AAA.
No, the “market” does not reflect the worth to the country. It is in the current market’s interests to shut out solar.
Normally I would agree with you but by no stretch of the imagination could the current NZ Electricity industry be termed a “market”.
My goodness you make me laugh srylands. Do you honestly believe there is a market in this economy? Corporate capitalism has this major fault you see – it destroys markets, so market determination you speak of is just jargon for – if we put the idea forward – then the market approves.
It’s like the fairies at the bottom of the garden srylands, some of us don’t see them and are starting to think you’re lot are just making it all up.
Who is going to invest $18,000 to save $100 per month?
That is a 6.67% return that is tax free and pretty well risk free. As long as depreciation works out this is not too bad at all. And the future trends are all favourable.
Srylands represents the capitalist speculator class, a group of people who are not so much investors as individuals who want windfall profits in exchange for no risk (or state socialised risk).
+1
It would be a 6.7% return if you actually had the money to invest. But since it is being borrowed the interest cost has to be netted off the return and there is also the cash flow issue that many families won’t be able to find an extra $900 per year to repay the loan.
Huh? Not only could the govt provide low or zero interest loans, but $900 pa is easily repaid through the power savings garnered.
In addition there is a special attraction for many households: the ability to dramatically reduce the monies paid out to the privatised power corporates.
Especially as the electricity authority has already signalled the power companies are all going to increase prices.
Germany already has a policy similar to this.
srylands Panels become less efficient as they get older so after 10 years they are between 68-80% productive. That has not been factored in.
Do you have a source for this?
Seems higher than anything I’ve read in course of my own research on PV.
For example here’s a source that calls you a liar
http://sroeco.com/solar/solar-efficiency-losses-over-time
Bullshit, Might have been that case when they didn’t know how to lay down silicon well.. But for anything over the last 20 or even 30 years that is kept cleanish, they typically degrade by a maximum of 20% over 20-25 years. At ten years it is usually less than 10%.
If they survive 25 years, they appear to stop degrading. It appears that any cell that will fail has done so.
The most common degradation is from not doing basic cleaning of them, excessively cleaning them, or the most common – wind.
The key is whether the savings from purchasing energy from the grid can pay for the large upfront capital investment. Who is going to invest $18,000 to save $100 per month?
Is that trick question? A group that expects to live for 20-30 years with low incomes. Most of the people I have seen putting them in recently have been people who are retired or about to retire. They’re often pretty cashed up because of selling property to move to smaller towns and houses and/or receiving the contents of their parents residual assets.
They look at it as being a way of reducing their cash outflow over quite a long retirement. It is also why they’re starting to drop land lines once they discover skype (the number one computer application of the elderly) on tablets.
That would be why they’re paid back via rates. The loan effectively belongs to the house.
Well, considering that the power lines can already handle everything that houses draw then they should be able to handle everything that they can generate.
Leaving it to the market will a) make it so that we won’t be able to handle power down as well as necessary and b) will just continue to make a few people richer while everyone else gets poorer. Time to tell the market and the economists who support it to fuck off.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9723121/Worlds-largest-solar-plant-opens
“According to US Energy Information Administration data, the cost of building and operating a new solar thermal power plant over its lifetime is greater than generating natural gas, coal or nuclear power.”
“It costs a conventional coal plant US$100 (NZ$120), on average, to produce a megawatt-hour of power, but that figure is US$261 (NZ$315) for solar thermal power, according to 2011 estimates. The figures do not account for incentives such as state or federal tax credits that can affect the cost.”
Hopefully the cost will come down
Does that have anything to do with this post?
I think he engaged copy paste before the brain.
Of course the economics still aren’t there for vast solar plants. Nor are they there for solar+battery systems until the cost of some of the less degrading battery and/or fuel cells systems drops a lot.
But distributed solar systems with a grid to feed into that has a lot of hydro is economic now that the chinese dropped the cost to produce medium solar panels.
Correct, feeding PV generation into a distributed local network has almost no associated transmission costs, hence no need for increased infrastructure spending. Both PV and traditional generation complement each other if planned correctly.
Good thing the Greens are advocating solar photovoltaic cells on people’s roofs, and not molten calcium steam engines with generators.
heh
We have a 4kw system installed june last year and cost ca 15k.
We have used $562 worth of our generated power, and sold (from nov) $177 back to the grid.
That is $740 in about 6 mtgs.
Estimated return on investment about 8 to 10%b tax free
Sryland re storm damage -did you notice what happened to the electricity network in the wellington storms!!!
Chris73 what was the cost of getting to power to the people?
I wonder where SimonB thinks money comes from that the banks loan to buy houses
I like most of this Green policy. Solar cells are getting cheaper and there are promising breakthroughs happening all the time. Before too long, there may be cheap and efficient organic cells available. Perhaps best of all, the idiots who bought our power companies might lose their shirts. I suppose we could let them have 3c back on the dollar, but of course we’d have to take the cost of the buyback out of that.
You’re too soft Murray Olsen.
How about they pay through the nose for the government to take back their shares. I dunno… 10c per dollar. That should substantially reduce the cost of the buyback. All it would mean is the idiots can’t afford Armani shirts and will have to wear standard cotton (mixed with a bit of polyester) like the rest of the kiwi population.
“You’re too soft Murray Olsen.”
Just one of my many faults. We could always make the administration cost of the buyback 13c per share anyway. I can see compelling reasons for that. In fact, I’d say TINA.
I really like a lot of the policy the Greens come out with. I just wish they and Mana as well were a lot bigger so that we could basically forget the Rogernomes still in the Labour caucus. Sadly, for all its faults, Labour is still the organic party of the working class and we need to work with them. If they got a bit more militant about fighting for the dispossessed, maybe we wouldn’t have to hold our breath so much.
Ha ha 3 cents in the dollar nice* I will be looking forward to a lot more laughing watching parliament next week. I’m smiling thinking of some of the lines Joyce is going use about the crazy Greens as he calls them.
Peters will be rubbing Keys nose in it. Winston can add “spray ‘wipe’ and walk away” after this policy release… the Greens have sprayed Nationals power assets sales ‘again’ and many potential investors are wiped out and now walking away!
Oh don’t you love seeing the Nats implode?
+100%
I think that’s what National’s really worried about. Get every house with solar power and there’s no way that they’d be able to maintain a profit. National’s rentier mates won’t like that.
Well the Greens are going to have their work cut out selling this policy.
Leaving aside the size of the debt incurred on a national level if a reasonable percentage of NZ’s 1.7m homes were ‘captured’ this makes absolutely no sense on an individual economic level. A saving of $100 per year means it will take 150 years to return the capital borrowed.
Of course this isn’t a real number as power prices can be assumed to increase and the value of the dollar will diminish. Equally it doesn’t factor in interest payments, maintenance or replacement of the system.
Apart from ideological reasons I can’t see anything to get excited about this deal.
A saving of $100 per year means it will take 150 years to return the capital borrowed
That $100 would be after debt servicing.
Installing solar PV gave about an 10% return on investment when I did the sums a year ago.
The Home installation idea was from the Greens, ridiculed by National in Opposition then adopted by them. The Nats made a grant for each house whereas the Greens are offering a loan for Solar Power. The drunken outburst from National’s Mr Bridges on TV3 tonight, apart from making him look childish signals that the Greens have made another hit and worrying for the Nats.
Poor OW Pete
If you don’t like the deal you can decline it.
Pity that vast numbers of NZers understand that moving towards fossil fuel energy independence is the thing the country needs to do. I suppose you are not amongst that number who get it, but oh well.
Economics is about the real physical economy. Not about balancing electronic ledgers of numbers. Finances must be used to create effects that we want in the real world. You have it arse-backwards. It might advantage you to realise that.
+1
Now if Labour would actually realise that and from there realise that the government really can create money and, most importantly, can stop the private banks from creating it.
Pretty poor reading comprehension you have there. Must try harder.
The capital is paid off after 15 years, at $900 per year. The net benefit to the owner is $100 per year in those first 15 years – at current power prices. When power prices go up, as they certainly will, the net benefit is higher for those 15 years. Once it’s paid off, you receive a big benefit in reduced power prices after that, $1000 per year on Russel’s figures.
The policy is capped at $300M in the first 3 years, so the “size of the debt” is already known.
Sorry if i missed it but this policy is for home owners isn’t it – not for renters or those who choose not to or cannot afford their own homes.
Hmmmmm good point. Although it wouldn’t be hard to make it a bullet point on a rental Warrant of Fitness.
yeah it would be nice to help reduce the power bills of those who need that help the most.
Isn’t that what the other part of the GP energy policy does?
Then we released our NZ Power plan in response to a lack of competition and rising electricity prices. We jointly announced with Labour our plan to save Kiwi families up to $300 per year on their home energy bills.
Our NZ Power plan will deliver cheaper and cleaner energy to households and provide the foundation to build a genuinely smart grid. It complements our hugely successful home insulation scheme and is the first of several significant announcements in the energy sector.
Isn’t that what the other part of the GP energy policy does?
Then we released our NZ Power plan in response to a lack of competition and rising electricity prices. We jointly announced with Labour our plan to save Kiwi families up to $300 per year on their home energy bills.
Our NZ Power plan will deliver cheaper and cleaner energy to households and provide the foundation to build a genuinely smart grid. It complements our hugely successful home insulation scheme and is the first of several significant announcements in the energy sector.
From the policy document
Landlords will benefit from added value to their rentals, which will become particularly relevant with the progressive introduction of a rental Warrant of Fitness sceme.
No it’s a real problem CV. The difficulty is the classic one that the cost and liability falls to the property owner and the benefits accrue to the tenant.
Just leaving it to the sainted market is rather inefficient because right now rents are very low compared to property prices and costs. For example today I worked out that it is now taking just over two months rent per year just to pay insurance and rates on one of my units. The bank gets most of the rest. Only a minority of landlords make a substantial positive cash flow, and usually only on older properties in provincial towns or fringe areas.
Rents are mainly determined by the location, the number of bedrooms and garaging – extra features like good insulation, double-glazing, heat-pumps and the like usually only have a modest effect on market rent. I know this from direct experience.
Another possible concern is that a small proportion of tenants would see a $10k plus solar installation as just another thing to rip-off or wreck. You only need one bad apple to undo the good of a dozen others. Sad but true.
A tick on a Rental Warrant of Fitness audit would be well and good if it was mandatory but frankly I’d be surprised if a voluntary compliance code would have much impact. While I would be personally motivated to go solar (and I almost did on several units six months back) – the majority of landlords probably would be pretty reluctant.
It’s a very real and difficult disconnect and I’d welcome constructive ideas around how to mitigate it.
Otherwise a strong speech and fine, solid policy from the Greens. Well done.
Is maybe something that requires a bit of scale to work more economically for landlords. eg apartments, units.
“.. the cost and liability falls to the property owner and the benefits accrue to the tenant.”
It may just be a cost of earning income from capital rather than labour. The market may well actually work in its favour. I wonder how many people look for a house with a heat pump (and in the future solar power) when renting now. Admittedly this only applies to wealthy renters who have choices but that is what wealth gives you. Having the benefits you mention that do not directly affect rent might give you better tenants thus mitigating your concern about trashing the property.
“.. rents are very low compared to property prices and costs.”
It might just mean that people need to adjust their expectations on returns on property. They may then consider investing in other parts of the economy so reducing the heat in the property market. An asset tax would also help correct property values further. Lots of people in NZ play monopoly (property game) and have got wealthy or live well. (Of course there is the other side of the coin)
Solar, heat pumps, good insulation will move to becoming a standard feature (like electric windows, power steering, air con in cars) over time thus lifting the quality of housing stock.
Providing state housing is the best way to lift the quality of poor private rentals. Markets will force the race to the bottom where people do not have choices.
Rather a long answer and probably not that comforting to landlords.
“I wonder how many people look for a house with a heat pump (and in the future solar power) when renting now. Admittedly this only applies to wealthy renters who have choices but that is what wealth gives you.”
Bingo. See my reply below.
“Rents are mainly determined by the location, the number of bedrooms and garaging – extra features like good insulation, double-glazing, heat-pumps and the like usually only have a modest effect on market rent. I know this from direct experience.”
True enough, but those extra features will also attract better tenants. Certainly I wouldn’t be renting the place I am renting if it didn’t have a heatpump (and dishwasher). We also offered $20/more than the asking rent and this year the landlords elected not to put the rent up because we’ve been such good tenants.
kia ora red – can I ask a silly question – why be a landlord?
I would have thought it was an investment area that generated a return, as in property is an asset class. Therefore any costs must be mitigated and returns enhanced. Adding solar to a rental property is perhaps cool for the country, the environment and the tenants but just another cost for the landlord and i think you have stated that.
I wonder if being a landlord has more to do with our ‘backgrounds’ as in that was seen as being more ‘lordy’, more advanced (classwise). Should any person be a landlord over another especially when profit is the major motivator (generalisation I know). Anyway just some muddy thoughts.
There has to be an availability of good properties at fair prices for renters to lease. It is a basic social need. Both the private sector and the public sector can play a role in the provision of these properties.
I suspect Bill would say that there should also be different structures available for people to choose from eg housing/accomodation co-ops. These structures would not necessarily need “landlords”.
“I suspect Bill would say”…housing collectives formed under the auspices of the Industrial and Provident Societies Act of 1908. Set up properly, the occupiers of the properties are equal owners of all the properties. Then, when they leave the property, they are no longer owners and have no say in anything.
The radical bit is that because ownership is communal, there is no avenue for an individual to buy or sell any of the houses/properties.
That’s what Bill would say 😉
Oh – and I’d also add “set up collective income generating projects n the same properties, if you really want to ‘nail it’ and be doing something really quite different and empowering”
🙂
It would need to be linked into rental properties as well. I don’t see how the policy makes that difficult, although it would need some goodwill on the part of landlords. Oops, maybe I do see why.
Even better would be a state housing program with the solar there from the start. That would stop landlords putting the rent up and saying “You’re saving on power anyway.”
I have pondered on the renter impact of the solar power policy. I had thought that, over time, as the use of solar power extended to more properties, there would be a gradual increase in rental accomodation with such a solar power facility. It would be unlikely to have an immediate impact, but very good for the longer term.
Simon bredjiz is worried even more about Genises float if the Greens keep polling well that means National will get a lot less for Genisis.
Especially as National managed to steal another $50 million out of their working capital for election bribes devalueing the company furthet.
Simon bredjiz is worried even more about Genises float if the Greens keep polling well that means National will get a lot less for Genisis.
Especially as National managed to steal another $50 million out of their working capital for election bribes devalueing the company furthet.
If we have more droughts .
This Green policy makes a lot sense as we wouldn’t have to take huntly out of mothball.
Or import coal to fire it up.
On droughts and centralised power generation. (hint : it falls over)
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/16/water-shortages-electricity-supply-climate-change
Stuff demonstrates; with their transcript of Shon Key’s Breakfast interview, that the surest way to undermine the Smiling Assassins glib prattle is simply to report it verbatim minus the sociopathic smarm:
“Key told Breakfast this morning the policy would force people to keep their excess power generation.
“If you look at the big emissions at the moment in New Zealand, it’s Genesis through Huntly where they have coal fired power plants, and the plan that [the Greens] have got is going to reduce all competition and in my view, put up power costs to consumers, not reduce it, [and] actually locks that in,” he said.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9728877/PM-pours-cold-water-on-Greens-solar-pledge
Which seems to be saying that; more Photovoltaic solar in the grid will lead to higher electricity prices which in turn will lead to more coal-fired emissions.That is just nonsense; more residential photovoltaic mainly used at source (grid transmission/ storage is maybe 90% efficient) would leave more electricity in the grid which would lower prices to consumers. Especially since this will be in conjunction with the KiwiPower bulk purchase scheme, and the feed-in of overcapacity photovoltaic.
Not the first time Key has demonstrated ignorance of basic economic principles. He also thinks that price has no effect on demand. Some people think he is clever. And National think the Greens are have looney economic policies. Pot calling kettle. Good work Greens.
Is it ignorance that he’s showing or outright spin? Personally, I think it’s the latter. If every house has generation capacity then obviously there’s more competition than just the bulk suppliers.
Notice Key has already rubbished it – no surprises there. Anything that benefits the many is a big no no because after all what matters most it would seem is corporate interests and profiteering.
+1
Seems strange that this Solar Power Policy was not mentioned on Morning Report today? Steven Joyce has a long arm.
It does a bit. I turned on the TV and saw John Key giving an interview on TV1’s morning news programme, so watched that rather than switching to NatRad (as I normally do in the morning while getting dressed).
Key talked about how great the insulation scheme was. Unfortunate that the interviewer didn’t say “well actually that was Green policy too”.
Has anyone done the math on this proposal?
Total Cost of the loan over 15 years:
Capital repayment of loan = $15,000
Interest over the term of
the loan, @ say 5.74% = $6,860
Total = $21,680
On my calculations therefore, it will take just over 21years before the consumer sees any benefit, based on Mr Normans assumptions of a saving of $1,000 per annum generated from the system.
the purpose of the exercise is therefore?
Just saying.
It is not “just” the consumer that sees benefit but also the country. In a well thought out energy scenario (unlike our present electricity market) you also need to factor in the benefit of forgone new generation capacity. If this policy leads to reduced new construction, then the forgone interest cost could also be used to justify this scheme.
It won’t be at the current floating mortgage rate:
Anyway, in 15-25 years the PV panels will be a hell of a lot cheaper, so if they need to be replaced they can. The remainder of the installation, i.e., brackets, fixed wiring, smart meter, should all have a longer service life. The kWh price of electricity is constantly rising, solar power or not, so $100/year could easily be $200/year before the system’s even paid off.
Another person that can’t read what is already in front of them, just like this bozo: http://thestandard.org.nz/russel-normans-campaign-conference-speech-2014-going-solar/#comment-773963
Russel’s figures are around a $10,000 capital cost repaid over 15 years at $900 a year. That’s $13,500. Because he told us the capital cost of $10,000, we know the interest cost is $3,500.
$3,500 interest on $10,000 works out to a 4.2% interest rate and $900 in repayments.
Therefore, on the calculations PROVIDED BY RUSSEL IN HIS DAMN SPEECH, it will take exactly 1 year for the consumer to see a benefit of $100, and after 15 years they will see a benefit of $1,000 a year. These benefits are based on today’s power prices, assuming they keep going up at a rate of 22% over the last 5 years like they have under National, the benefits will end up being much larger, much sooner than calculated here.
L, it aint that the wing-nuts cannot read, they just choose to not do so…
PV generation has it’s place but it certainly is not the answer to increased demand. Costwise it is expensive and without storage requires duplicate infrastructure using other types of generation.
“Negawatts” is a concept that has been around for decades with early versions actually running the meter backwards.
Some countries have had very bad experiences with implementation of large scale PV generation but the distributed nature of this scheme, plus the use of the network make this a quite well thought out policy.
The financial details are another issue………
+1
Each kW of demand reduction is a kW of generation which will not be needed.
No, MAY not be needed. This is only correct if the output from PV is matched by a corresponding decrease in the alternative generation. In theory, the output from PV during daylight would lead to higher lake storage levels in hydro schemes but hydro is very difficult to regulate (the water just keeps on spilling). PV works best with faster response generation – coal??
Coal or gas on standby.
Not standby but certainly generating at reduced capacity.
Wrong. The water flow can easily be decreased or increased as demand dictates.
Coal is not a fast response. In fact, it’s a very, very slow response. In effect, it needs to be on all the time. Hell, even the diesel powered peaking generators that the last government had built took half an hour to come online.
NZ has the storage in the hydro lakes. Solar/wind producing more than enough? Then decrease the water running through the dams.
Not fast enough response. Much better to use that spillage by promoting “off peak” useage.
Faster than anything else we’ve got.
A very fast response. Hydro responses are measured in seconds, rather than the tens of minutes required for coal and gas.
Another question if I may.
If Solar energy is such a viable option, why the need for subsidies?
Consumers would have been lining up for years to install systems if from a financial & economic perspective it was viable, but it is not.
There is little if no benefit, when the tax payer has to subsidise.
The major benefit is not to the home owner, it is to the country. See my comment above.
Sorry, but this was Russell’s Policy plank to save people in terms of “huge” power bills.
So when that gets debunked, we throw in the benefit to the country argument.
How much of our current generation comes from clean renewable sources? I understand over 80%.
So this is just another Green scam, poorly researched and not thought through.
Consumer and other more enlightened evaluers have already shot the economic value of the proposal to pieces.
Can the left please, I mean please, come up with an economic package thats going to deliver something of value to the country, other than this “Fluffy” feel good ideology rubbish.
No credibility whatsoever.
You are correct in that the way Russel has sold this is pure snake oil. It has no economic benefit to the end user.
My comments were about the usefulness of the technology, as such more of a “demand side management” of the national generating capacity – in which case the benefit is arguable.
I respect your argument, but for this one, lets agree to disagree.
And there you’d be wrong. The end user saves money even while they’re paying off the loan.
If I had $15k to invest, it makes no financial sense to me personally to put into a PV system when I can get a higher rate of return elsewhere.
However, if you want to save the planet, then that is not a financial decision……
Which is why the private market system is failing to do what’s necessary.
Then we agree……
Notice how the word “economic” has become interchangeably used with the word “financial”?
And in the final analysis the neolibs have no concept of real economics; only financialised economics.
nitpicker……
well, sometimes it becomes an important distinction 😉
And even in the finances they’re wrong.
The interest rates used by the Greens are Govt bonds from the last five years (historically low rates), which they have applied to a 15 year period for some reason (I can only guess economic illiteracy). The Govt will not be able to continue to borrow a 4.2% for the next 15 years; worldwide bond prices are picked to begin increasing soon.
What happens to the $100/year saving then?
“How much of our current generation comes from clean renewable sources? I understand over 80%.”
There are so many inaccuracies in your comments natwest. I suggest that you read the actual policy (I linked to it upthread) and then come back and comment. Start with the fact that it’s not a subsidy.
Yeah. Little or no benefit from taxpayer subsidised education or healthcare either. Roads, no benefit from them at all.
Doesn’t it suck when reality comes crashing through?
Your comment is a bullshit fail of an ideology. The role of government is to get things done that purely self interested capitalists and privateers refuse to. Long term infrastructure for the common good or which is not easily monetised falls into that category.
“The role of government is to get things done that purely self interested capitalists and privateers refuse to.”
You are totally wrong.
Electricity is priced by markets. There is no role for the Government in interfering with energy markets.
The current market system is working well and it will remain. There is no alternative.
As for the solar proposal, the more it is analysed the faster it will dissipate.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9730481/Industry-questions-solar-economics
Saith the Lord.
So concludes the gospel of S Rylands.
The current artificial market system is fucking things up badly for the majority of people while pulling in rentier profits for the fat and lazy bludgers known as shareholders.
The new Jonathan Swift strikes again.
Of course the industry questions solar economics. Their share options depend on lack of competition sand the ability to jump power prices as high as they can.
+1
natwest
An assisted loan is not necessarily a subsidy any more than bulk purchasing is. The benefits largely involve; reducing Aotearoa’s carbon footprint, and; increasing diversification and robustness of generation sources.
Read the Speech.
(transcript above).
Good job that there’s no subsidies then.
It’s only a subsidy in the sense that a consumer gets a loan at a 4.2% interest rate, instead of the current floating mortgage rate of 5.74%. However the government was going to borrow that money and pay that 4.2% interest rate anyway, so in effect it is not costing the government anything except in foregone spending in other areas.
But since the Roads of Notional Significance are a $10B white elephant to nowhere, it’s very easy to see where the money is coming from
Solar power on people’s houses for $300M is a far better use of the money than a holiday highway in the north.
“Consumers would have been lining up for years to install systems if from a financial & economic perspective it was viable, but it is not.”
From a financial perspective, it is viable, but ONLY on a long-term timeframe. That’s the cleverness in this policy – by attaching the loan to the property and not the owners of the property, the short-test interests of the owners are no longer a key consideration in the decision as to whether to go with solar or not.
I’m planning to build an energy efficient house next year, and if this policy is implemented, I will very likely be going with solar. Prior to now, I had largely discounted it in favour of solar hot water.
“by attaching the loan to the property and not the owners of the property, the short-test interests of the owners are no longer a key consideration in the decision as to whether to go with solar or not.”
Really? What happens when these homeowners find that they need to sell their home at a discount compared to “non-solar” homes. This is a likely outcome if the investment is not economic.
But we already know that the electricity generation comes out to $100 surplus for the first 15 years, and then $1,000 after that (assuming Russel’s figures are accurate, which we have to for the sake of this discussion).
Also the price of electricity is only going to go up, and if it keeps rising at 22% over 5 years like it has under National, then these figures will stack up even more in favour of solar in the years ahead.
So it seems unlikely the house would be sold as a discount, unless there were other factors involved.
Why would someone need to sell a value added home for less?
You make no sense at all.
If oil and gas is such a viable option, why the need for subsidies.
Subsidies for exploration, use, including the “roads of national significance” and production.
Not to mention the enormous costs of military excursions, some of which New Zealand has joined in, to keep oil prices down.
Maybe we should just stop subsidising oil use?
+111
Most definitely need to stop subsidising fossil fuel use. Especially in the area of carbon emissions.
The Bloke interviewed on 3 news last night, not a politician,a private citizen who has installed His own solar array says it all as far as cost goes,
His electricity bill now, around the 50 dollar a month mark, befor the installation of the solar array his electricity bill was from memory 150-200 bucks a month,
There’s room on my roof for a large array of panels and considering my low use of electricity if this roof space was utilized i would probably end up generating double the electricity i use,
Next, water???, there’s enough water falling on every city and town now being flushed through the storm water system and on into the sea to effectively drown every farm(er) in this country, the problem being the infrastructure of the primitives is non-existent to either store it for consumer use or store it for commercial use,
The sucking dry of our rivers and underground water sources must stop sooner or later, we are rich in water which we simply waste through the storm water system into the sea…
…..turbines in the stormwater drains……don’t laugh 🙂
Yep, micro-hydro, smartest idea I’ve heard for a while grumpy
There are dozens of “micro hydro” schemes around (plenty on the West Coast). Royds Garden consultants built heaps in the 80’s for the Asian Development Bank in places like Laos.
I do know a young engineer who designed tiny water turbines to be used in creeks especially in back country blocks. How about multiple tiny turbines for those who live near reliable rivers. Why not?
There are thousands of these around. It is very old technology developing from the old Pelton wheel. Just about every remote farm has/had one.
LOlz, sorry couldn’t help the mirth, not a silly idea at all ‘grumpy’, turbines in all the water mains, they work under pressurization so quite an amount of electricity could probably result from installing them,
Broaden that out into what i say about wasting the storm water from every city and town into th sea and you have the means of supply for the electricity needed to pump such water anywhere you desire to store it for either use by house-holds or as i point out irrigation of farmland,
All that is missing is the will and the infrastructure, Auckland can suck water for it’s city out of the Waikato river surely it’s storm water should be being used to either replenish the amount taken from the river and/or used for irrigation anywhere in the upper North Island…
There are heaps of nice bits of kit to do this. See below link for a NZ developed system based on the well known “Stirling engine” now being sold in their thousands in Europe to feed back into the grid.
Replace your gas hot water boiler with one of these honeys and get 6kW of electricity free which can then be fed back into the local grid.
http://www.whispergen-europe.com/
Snake oil. You don’t get the energy “free”.
That thing appears to be a gas-powered hot water heater that also generates electricity.
But you have to pay for the gas, it’s not “free”. If it can genuinely generate electricity from heat that would otherwise be ‘wasted’, eg hot-water going down a drain from a shower, then it would be performing a genuine energy ‘saving’.
It appears however to simply use gas to generate hot water and then takes some of this heat to also generate electricity.
If you had a new house built that used one of these units instead of being hooked up to the national grid, you’d get some savings, but otherwise it’s mostly just a gimmick.
OK, not quite free…..but if you get electricity at close to the conversion ratio of a boiler for hot water alone, it may as well be.
The figure says 90%.
I’m not sure how efficient other forms of generation are, I think normal large-scale combined-cycle gas thermal might be around 85-87%? So potentially it is slightly more efficient than centralised generation and without transmission losses, which is a bonus, and if it provided significant on-demand electricity it would isolate you from grid disruptions. But you’re now much more dependant on gas infrastructure instead.
All-in-all, it seems unlikely this save anyone a significant amount of money, although there may be other non-economic factors that are important – but 1 ton of CO2 per family per year is not much of a saving.
The “Stirling” cycle engine is simply an efficient gas powered generator where you can use the waste heat to heat water also, increasing the efficiency. A small, combined cycle, gas fired power station if you like.
You could do the same with a diesel engine and its waste cooling water.
You still have to buy fuel for it.
In isolated usage situations, like yachts, it can be a cheaper form of power and heating supply.
Because of size it is unlikely to be more energy efficient than supply from a large central combined cycle gas generator
“LOlz, sorry couldn’t help the mirth, not a silly idea at all ‘grumpy’, turbines in all the water mains, they work under pressurization so quite an amount of electricity could probably result from installing them,”
The mains are pressurised because of pumps, that use electricity, putting that pressure in. Therefore turbines in the pressure main can never produce more electricity than was needed to add the pressure in the first place, otherwise you’d have a perpetual energy device, which breaks the accepted laws of thermodynamics.
….but you would get some of it back…..
Only if you were taking pressure out of water that didn’t need to be pressurised, eg it was wasted pressurisation.
Turbines, by their nature, increase resistance – instead of going through unconstrained pipes, the water now has to push against turbine blades. This reduces the pressure of the water in the pipes. So now your garden hose may not be as high a pressure because of turbines sitting in the way stealing some of it.
But if it is deemed acceptable for garden hoses (etc) to have lower pressure, then you can simply reduce the amount of pressure that is being inserted into the system by the pumps in the first place, thus saving more electricity than your turbines could ever generate (again, perpetual motion).
There are only two conditions where this sort of proposal makes sense: if you’re using the water as a mechanism to transfer electricity from one site to another, or if your getting pressurised water for free, eg the water is stored up in a lake on a mountain and you can build a pipe to run the water out.
The first is already solved by power lines. I’m sure if hydrolic power distribution was more cost-effective then we’d be using that instead. The second is of limited utility because very few places have lakes on the tops of mountains to provide free water pressure, and generally such places will have hydro dams in them already because of this very reason.
……spoil sport……or at the bottom of hills in Christchurch, Dunedin, Wellington…
I’m not aware of any large lake or river on the Christchurch hills. Don’t know about the others.
Several places in new Zealand where mains water is gravity fed.
Storm water is a possibility. All that rain falling off roofs?
However the existing pipes are sized and have falls to allow for expected storm flows. Installing turbines in them will back up the flow. Though only a problem when you get storm flows near the system capacity.
Common in Auckland as we all know. New housing, and old waste connections, (overflow to the storm water system) means the system has been beyound the original design limits for decades.
Renewable electricity was 77% in 2011. 60% from hydro. http://www.med.govt.nz/sectors-industries/energy/energy-modelling/data/renewables
The highest to date. Before or since. New gas generation planned, means this will fall in future, unless something is changed
I know one or two people in west Auckland with their own water tanks. Useful back-up and support to the mains supply.
I have about 10m altitude difference between the bottom of the down-pipes and street level – I wonder if I could get much energy.
Assuming 130 sq.m of roof, if it acquires 5mm of rain = 0.65 cubic meters of water, or 650 litres. One litre has 1kg of mass and attracts 9.8N of weight (at sea level, we’re at 200m so close enough) so that water has 63700 Joules of energy (over a 10m drop). Assuming I could capture it with 100% efficiency, that’s about 0.017694 kWh of power saved, or $0.003538. At an annual rainfall of 1250mm, the total savings becomes $0.88472, so I’ll probably not bother.
It’s been a while since Bursary Physics, so if I’ve got something wrong here I won’t be surprised.
The Waitaki scheme takes the average car petrol tank of water to generate 1kW/hr. (From mountain to sea).
Where did you get that? The GPE in 100 litres of water is 98000 joules per 100m of altitude (there are 3.6MJ in 1kWh).
Average per house 11,410 kWh/year. 1.71 tonnes CO2/y
NZ housing stock 17,450,000 MWh/year 2,600,000
tonnes CO2/y
Average cost/house. 1,960 $NZ/year
Total cost. 3,000 $NZ millions/y
http://www.physics.otago.ac.nz/eman/hew/ehome/energyuse.html
A simple formula for approximating electric power production at a hydroelectric plant is: P = \rho hrgk , where
P is Power in watts,
\rho is the density of water (~1000 kg/m3),
h is height in meters,
r is flow rate in cubic meters per second,
g is acceleration due to gravity of 9.8 m/s2,
k is a coefficient of efficiency ranging from 0 to 1. Efficiency is often higher (that is, closer to 1) with larger and more modern turbines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity#Calculating_available_power
Small turbines efficiency is about 0.6
L, just about got me to drag the Post off of the topic with that one, i for one do not ‘accept’ that the rules of thermodynamics are unbreakable,
In theory magnetic energy harnessed correctly turns such a ‘rule’ on it’s head, the fact that no-one as yet has put together a system of generation using magnetic energy in my opinion is simply through lack of intellectual application, perhaps aided and abetted by most applying the ‘rule’ to their thinking befor applying their intellect to the actual means of how to harness that magnetic energy,
A topic for another time and Post…
Well. Every form of electricity generation does use magnetism????
Not sure what, other, principle of “magnetism” you intend to use.
Go claim your nobel prize if you have anything conclusive.
Many years ago, I was involved with a company in the below link. One of their really cool devices
was an inline turbine that sits in gas pipelines and runs on the gas flow. Seems strange that nobody has used them here.
http://www.piller.com/
n Germany solar power has been a complete flop due to the fact there isn’t enough hours of sunlight to make it viable.
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/02/21/bjorn-lomborg-germanys-solar-experiment-collapses/
According to this site here
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Germany/annual-hours-of-sunshine.php
There’s about an average of 1600 hours of sunlight across Germany
In NZ there’s around 2000 hours of sunlight
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/New-Zealand/sunshine-annual-average.php
So NZ gets around 25% more sunlight than Germany is that actually enough sunlight to make this scheme work?
On top of the cost, life expectancy, storage issues solar looks like a really high risk investment.
The expectations were too high. PV is useful but limited.
For me the killer is the fact that no NZ power company has actually built a photovoltaic power generation facility.
Wind power yes, solar no and the only reason I can see is that it just doesn’t stack up.
NZ is a low cost (despite the artifial pricing mechanisms) electricity market. PV is high cost.
It starts to make more sense as the two move closer together.
The only thing that competes with hydro is nuclear……
We build wind turbines in NZ. We don’t build PV cells. That’s one reason.
Wind works at night, solar doesn’t. There are some very windy places in NZ, but there aren’t many perpetually sunny places (like say Australia, the Sahara Desert and California) where solar is a clear winner.
There are however big differences between industrial power generation schemes (which must provide power for all use cases in the country) and small domestic ones (which must satisfy only the use case of the house occupants). What works in one setting for a variety of reasons does not always scale up in the other setting. For example solar thermal power only makes sense on large scale, and small turbines are also much less efficient than their bigger cousins. So it’s not particularly surprising that what may work and be logical at small scales, is not so effective at large scales.
It doesn’t stack up yet for large scale plants.
Rooftop solar, however.
Though I still consider the best use of solar is direct heating and cooling.
Water heating, area heating, and energy for heat exchangers in summer.
Passive solar houses save power for the whole life of the building.
This.
PV is all very flash and exciting, but the ability to leave mains powered heaters and heat pumps off is the go.
Consumer magazine say ” The economics of grid-tied PV don’t stack up – particularly when you include the lack of significant environmental benefits.
http://www.energywise.govt.nz/sites/all/files/solar-photovoltaic-consumer-november-2013.pdf
I think the Greens’ business case works well especially when the government helps tilt the balance. Lots of people are going to go for it, especially as they see the privatised power system continue to rip them off.
I sort of agree with you there BUT idealogues have a poor record with implementing solar as many here have kindly pointed out. For PV to be useful it needs to be part of an integrated system and there is a lot of doubt that conditions for that currently exists.
Could it work? – probably yes.
Will it work? – probably not.
“Lots of people are going to go for it”
Only financially illiterates.
It is a risky investment for (at best) a very small saving in energy costs. What the Greens don’t tell people is that PV panels are a depreciating asset. So the return is small, and the capital erodes to zero. There is also technical erosion – the PV cells become less efficient.
The market perceptions of this policy wil become evident fast. The Greens imply that houses with an encumbered solar “debt” will sell at a premium – i.e don’t worry of you sell your house – you will recover your money. On the contrary the economics of solar power mean that such houses will sell at a discount from “non-solar” houses. When this happens the shit will hit the fan politically because the private losses will be evident.
Then there is the interest rate problem – if interest rates increase by 150 basis points in the next 2 years, the assumed advantage (if you believe teh green maths) evaporates.
We could go on and on.. The major PV manufacturers are Chinese. The manufacturing process is polluting and emits significant greenhouse gases. Given New Zealand’s high renewables, what does displacing grid generated power with Chinese PVs do to global emissions (which is all that matters).
Then there is household debt. The Government would be encouraging high levels of debt for a marginal (at best) return. New Zealand has a capital shortage. We don’t want to be encouraging marginal investments in exchange for higher householsd debt.
There are another dozen shortcomings to this policy that could be listed. If it gets off the ground, it will provide a small financing subsidy to the small numbers of households who have a niche need for solar already – i.e most of the subsidy will be a windfall gain to existing homeowners – and mostly owners of large homes who are relatively wealthy. So it fails on equity grounds too.
The Government and the industry will tear this to pieces over the next 6 months.
The National Party and those with vested interests will whine and whine and whine and whine?
I think that’s something we’re probably going to have to get used to: the whining of vested interests and their bought politicians.
Still, TINA.
You have refuted none of the issues I have raised. For example will the policy rule out buying PV panels from Chinese companies with a poor environmental record? What will that do to the costs? Will the Government invest in Greenhouse emission reducion projects to offset the significant at source emissions impacts of PV panel manufacture? If not, what does the policy do to global greenhouse emissions over the life of the policy? Given New Zealand’s high renewables, and the Green’s policy to acheive 100% renewables by 2030, it is possible that this policy could increase global greenhouse emissions.
It is impossible to argue with someone who’s fallback is simply “There is no alternative”. So why even bother trying?
Suddenly the cocksucker cares about greenhouse emissions.
He must be depserate
You do a disservice to cocksuckers everywhere by lumping him in with us.
True dat – I’ve whittled away many a pleasant evening in the company of your co-practitioners.
My apologies.
As you have resorted to your customary foul mouthed retorts, I will assume you have nothing to say about the reservations I have listed about this policy.
Awww, is the author of “Stop acting like a fucking idiot.” upset about bad language again? Did-fucky-iddums.
You listed no reservations.
You simply did your standard bullshit of assuming that because policies are not described to the level of identifying specific suppliers before the election (let alone before planning the nuances of policy implementation), the most incompetent alternative will be chosen each and every time.
That is, admittedly, the way the best and brightest in treasury operate, but really – go fuck yourself. Nobody else is as dumb as treasury.
So take your disingenuous “reservations” and shove them up your arse.
+1
Russel Norman is a snake oil salesman. This will only appeal to a few wealthy people who can afford to waste money and some financially illiterates who just don’t get the big picture.
I wouldn’t touch this with a barge pole. These houses with older panels on them will be discounted. Who is going to buy a house at market value knowing they will have to spend $10k or more on new PV panels in the near future.
The same people who buy a house now, knowing they will have to spend 10k on a new roof in the next 20 years.
Except the roof does not pay for itself in 10 years.
Naki Man, in the online consumer website, various comments say that the government reports the article is based on are schizophrenic and biased. No time to write more right now.
Perhaps the naysayers should read Malcolm Gladwell’s article about Albert Hirschman and the power of failure.
http://gladwell.com/the-gift-of-doubt/
The Hirschman essays he refers to.
http://www.nationalaffairs.com/doclib/20080516_196700602theprincipleofthehidinghandalbertohirschman.pdf
http://www.cui-zy.cn/Course/GAD2008i/HirschmanExitVoiceLoyalty.pdf
As usual joe90 good links to good stuff. Thanx.
A typical solar panel is what, 10 sq metres? We could put 30,000 in a 30 hectare field in Northland (the area with the highest insolation, I’m guessing). The land cost would be negligible ($20000 a hectare = $600k) compared to the cost of the panels, and they’d all be in one place to install and service.
Of course, we need more than 100MW – we could have a million panels on a 1000 hectare solar farm, which would replace Huntly, and it could be built in a year.
Problem – you would be too far from where the energy would be used, needing high cost transmission facilities. These are the types of installation that prove useless and give PV bad press.
Much better distributed through a local network.
Plus if it was cloudy/raining in Northland, all of that generation would be out at once.
…needing an equivalent amount of alternative (thermal?) generation.
Just like those unreliable bird mincing wind farms
Worse, at least the wind blows at night…….
The wind farms are perfectly reliable and kill less birds than the cats in the country do.
Raining in Northland? That never happens!
Hayden
Is this something you know? Isn’t there any positive effect from having light, even if there is no sun? If there is cloud, what proportion of solar effect would remain?
Sorry, not necessarily out but reduced, presumably down to near zero given poor enough weather. I’m really only speaking to the matter of concentrating all of the PV generation in one location.
Yep, things like solar PV and wind need to be distributed to get the best returns which is why we need a single national grid.
Is it possible to have localised networks that connect, rather than one grid?
that’s pretty much how it works now, from my understanding – the transmission lines between networks run at higher voltages than the local networks.
A bit like roads, with the intercity highways having exits at different suburbs, but the local roads (i.e. the 240V domestic lines) might not be able to handle that volume of traffic if the highway shut down.
The issue is getting the power from the generator to the domestic light bulb – if one part of the network doesn’t supply itself, you need to ship power from other parts of the grid that have a surplus.
+1
And the variability of solar and wind is what makes it important for it to be a smart grid.
Will it be possible in the future, for the benefit of us renters, to create portable renewable generators? Windmills? Solar panels? Capture power generated by my exercise machine….?
apparently there’s a thought that maybe the smart meters currently being hooked up can’t handle that at the moment, but I hope they’re wrong. the exercise machine is an interesting idea
Mmm I’m just trying to get started on learning this stuff. Haven’t got round to getting The Knowledge yet. So thanks. And I’m presuming suggesting it all be put in one place was to get a mental picture of the size required for a certain output. I guess this is where those measurements taken each year of max sun hours will be crucial in deciding location balanced against distance to the users.
This is yet another failed Green Policy plank, even before getting off the ground.
Who is going to but into this scam, well, I can tell you who won’t.
Landlords: nup, not a hope in hell – they won’t gain anything from it;
The lower sociao economic group: nup, got no money now supposedly;
The middle/upper class: nup, not a hope in hell – they’ll see through the financial failings of it immediately.
So that dosen’t leave much left.
There are no economic failings except those you have concocted yourself with faulty maths and an inability to comprehend what you’re reading.
That is not what consumer magazine say. They advise that an accountant would find it to be not viable. So why would you take advise from Russel the biased financially illiterate snake oil salesman.
Rule no. 1. Don’t let narrow minded accountants, lawyers or financiers make important economic decisions.
+11111
As I replied to you earlier, there are comments on the consumer website by readers that say the government reports the consumer article was based on are bunk. And actually that article was about solar hot water, not solar PV.
Here’s a snippet of some of them. Note that I haven’t read the government report myself.
In general the replies to the article are by people saying they have solar hot water heating, it’s be great, they haven’t had problems and that it has or will shortly pay for itself in cost savings.
Why would you need money? You’re borrowing the money, then paying the interest out of power savings, leaving you with $100 per year (at current prices, which are only going up) for the life of the loan. When the loan’s paid off, all of the savings are yours.
I guess people who don’t understand it are going to be dead against it.
Oh, I’m sure that Nakiman understands it same as John Key understands it but, as it lowers profits for the main generators, they just don’t like it.
So, how many shares did each of the naysayers buy on the promise of a lifetime or more of free money from the power generating assets that the country built?
“Landlords: nup, not a hope in hell – they won’t gain anything from it;”
Except being able to charge more rent, right the improvements off, adding value to their investment and when selling that investment having a more salable and valuable property.
No nothing to gain at all.
Using a measure of how rabid the RWNJs are over this Greens policy announcement, I’m pleased to declare that Norman and Turei have hit a vote winning home run with this.