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Scan, wash your hands and wear a freakin mask

Written By: - Date published: 7:41 am, January 25th, 2021 - 85 comments
Categories: covid-19, health - Tags:

Another case of Covid has appeared in the community.

A 54 year old woman who lives south of Whangarei who returned overseas and went through quarantine has developed Covid after being released from quarantine.  She may have the more contagious UK variant of the virus and had tested negative while in quarantine.

Thankfully the person involved assiduously scanned everywhere she went and had a test when she felt unwell.

Two close contacts have proved negative.

A list of the places she visited has been published.

Please everyone scan wherever you go, wash your hands and wear a freakin mask.

85 comments on “Scan, wash your hands and wear a freakin mask ”

  1. Tiger Mountain 1

    Succinctly, and well put Micky. Time for vigilance again from all of us. Far North Iwi are consulting already about checkpoints.

  2. weka 2

    "Please everyone scan wherever you go"

    Time to change that messaging to something like "Please everyone scan or record wherever you go".

    Because not everyone has a smart phone, or a charged phone,or the app, or the ability to scan. And the message I'm seeing is 'scan!' which makes me think those that can't won't bother doing anything.

    (and people using the word 'scan' to mean sign in/diary as well need to stop because it's just confusing the situation).

    • tc 2.1

      Good points. Last few times into town very few people are scanning/recording their movements. I am in a minority of punters doing so.

      C'mon kiwis !!! Use the fn tools. Covid is tricky/deadly/here to stay…..do ya feel lucky !

      • weka 2.1.1

        Hardly anyone is scanning locally to me. Or signing in. No idea about diaries. Apparently no-one knows app usage by region, let alone the other options. City scanners seem unaware that many places just aren't bothering now. I think the push to get the app uptake has failed and we should be looking at adapting that strategy. I also don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to scan all the time for what is perceived as a low risk situation that is infrequent. Pretty sure people outside of Auckland see this as an Auckland problem that probably won't affect the rest of the country.

        • tc 2.1.1.1

          "I think the push to get the app uptake has failed …" agreed. Watched many punters going in/out of major retailers not bothering or being made to scan in.

          I observed the bluetooth 'upgrade' wasn't seamless enough for the non technical who got confused/concerned about these changes and ceased using it also.

          • weka 2.1.1.1.1

            apparently it uses up battery power too, so not so great for people on older phones.

            Looks to me like we need multiple strategies promoted at the same time: scan, BT, sign in, diaries (with active enabling of that, not just a vague hand wave in the general direction), as well as the handwashing, watching symptoms, getting tested, social distancing etc.

      • lprent 2.1.2

        Time to change that messaging to something like "Please everyone scan or record wherever you go".

        I always do. Including when I go to work. I also have the bluetooth running on the covid app on my phone.

        About the only time I haven't in the last months has been the couple of times I walked out without my phone. Then I have noticed the shortage of paper sign ins.

        • Forget now 2.1.2.1

          lprent, how does the bluetooth affect the battery life of your device these days? I'd heard there were some teething troubles when it was first introduced.

          As well as paper sign-ins, I have noticed that QR codes are becoming more elusive too. Especially in playgrounds and other outside places, but some smaller shops as well; where they have lost prominance to advertising and displays over time.

          • weka 2.1.2.1.1

            advice is to keep updating the app, as the tech will improve. But yeah, not a goer on my phone. I can't even leave the app running when in town.

        • weka 2.1.2.2

          I'd say that 98% of the messaging I see talks solely about scanning, not the other options. I'm not reading newspapers or watching TV though (or listening to the press conferences directly).

    • aj 2.2

      +1

      This assumption that everyone has the tools to scan and use Bluetooth is beyond annoying

      • Forget now 2.2.1

        I have been pretty slack with setting up bluetooth myself aj, though certainly increased incentive for that today. But the main app is really just a shortcut to creating a movement diary; which can be done with pen and paper, provided your handwriting on the move is legible, and you keep the notes in order (and with school stationary sales you can pick up a basic notebook for 5 cents at the moment).

        Apparently there's a third party app that works on older phones too:

        Rippl remains a valid alternative to using NZ COVID Tracer. As an official Ministry of Health integration partner, PaperKite is being encouraged to continue providing Rippl for those who prefer an alternative to the government app – and for those who have older phones (Rippl runs on Android 5.0 and iOS 11.4 or later).

        https://www.paperkite.co.nz/rippl/

      • alwyn 2.2.2

        I wonder if any of our Cabinet Ministers have the humility to admit that they stuffed up last year?

        If they had chosen the option to have Covid Cards then everyone could be being recorded without having to take any action other than to have the card with them.

        Oh well. I guess the MOH didn't think of the idea first so they weren't going to consider it.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/124015157/wed-be-getting-covidcards-now-if-ministers-made-different-decision-in-august

        • McFlock 2.2.2.1

          I'm intrigued that they were supposed to be worn visibly on a lanyard. Seems to defeat the purpose, really. I figured it would be something you could drop in a wallet, purse, or pocket and forget about.

          As for enforcement by peer pressure, hasn't really helped with masks down south.

          But it would be good to have had something along those lines, I think.

          • weka 2.2.2.1.1

            I'd like to know why people aren't scanning, and why people aren't using the BT option. The range of reasons. Then the govt can look at how to get people on board. I suspect that education and encouragement (a la public health messaging) would be more effective. The 'lazy people don't scan' stuff on SM seems least effective.

            I'd also like to know the breakdown of use by region but apparently no-one knows.

            • alwyn 2.2.2.1.1.1

              "I'd like to know why people aren't scanning".

              My reason is very simple. I don't have a smart phone and I see no need to buy such a thing. I did, on one occasion have some know-it-all who demanded I scan the code.

              I told him I was far too old to understand such things and asked him to show me how to do it. I don't think he had ever seen such s simple phone as my little $5 3G product of ZTE ingenuity. It does everything I want though.

            • McFlock 2.2.2.1.1.2

              The bluetooth option would be largely power and security based.

              Scanning, with the exception of techarchaics like Alwyn and myself, would be fatigue. Even if it's a habit, it's an effort. How many people have changed the food and water in their workplace earthquake emergency packs in the last five years?

              That's why I liked the idea of the bluetooth tags, although it's palled since I read the plan was for everyone to have visible lanyards. Ideally, it would be a creditcard you just put in your bag or wallet – heck, put a holder in it for an eftpos card and it's actually useful.

              Having to put on a lanyard every day? Stupid way of doing it. Doesn't work around people's behaviour. Give them something they will carry without noticing.

              • weka

                what happens to the data on the card exactly?

                • McFlock

                  Sits on the card, is my understanding for the NZ proposals.

                  But each card would be registered, so let's say I return a positive covid test. I give them my card, and all the numbers of cards I came close to is on that card. So let's say #700, #901, #995. 700 is registered to my partner, 901 is registered to my office buddy, and 995 is registered to the guy who sat behind me on the bus. So the public health office contact those three people, get their close contacts off their cards, now you have up to date and thorough contacts for multiple degrees of separation from the known case.

                  Don't know if they were thinking about contact upload stations for a central database to do all that in seconds. That has additional issues. But if they just store a log of other card numbers without the registration information, it's much less dangerous privacy-wise. Also a log that overwrites itself after two weeks, and the fixed battery limited lifespan is pretty solid, freedoms-wise.

                  Additionally, if you put registered covid cards at a shop door, you could use that to supplement any manual logs they keep there.

        • weka 2.2.2.2

          yeah, a card that scans everyone's location and tells the government exactly where you are and at what time, I'm sure that would have gone down way better than the current system.

          /sarc

          I don't need a tinfoil hat, because thankfully I live in a country that is still relatively good on protecting the privacy of citizens.

      • Grafton Gully 2.2.3

        Well, keep a diary then – assuming you can write ya fuck'n whining passive aggressive kiwi fuckwit.

        [It is understandable that people are stressed out by the latest development. However, your language is completely out of place and uncalled for and likely to cause others more unease and distress. And you did it twice (see also https://thestandard.org.nz/scan-wash-your-hands-and-wear-a-freakin-mask/#comment-1776184).

        I’ve made a note in your diary to come back in a month – Incognito]

    • Anne 2.3

      All public messages should be "scan/sign in".

      • weka 2.3.1

        yep, something like that.

        Scan/Sign/Record. Someone with marketing skills should figure the wording.

        • weka 2.3.1.1

          they might not be doing that because they want more people to use the app, but lots of people have the app and don't use it, so…

  3. Sabine 3

    and maybe keep people just a little longer in quarantine….and make sure that they can't catch it there a day or three before they being released.

    Why did the last test not catch the infection?

    • Incognito 3.1

      False negative test results are not nearly as rare as we’d like to think and may give a false sense of security and being virus-free. This has been known for almost a year now. This is another reason why we cannot rely on what happens in MIQ and be complacent elsewhere. Experts have been saying this ad nauseam. That said, I don’t necessarily agree with all their ‘solutions’.

      • Treetop 3.1.1

        Is it possible that the test produced a false positive or was contaminated during testing?

        • McFlock 3.1.1.1

          Possible? Either or both. Lots of tests have false positives, and some labs don't operate as well as they are accredited to operate.

          Likely? Neither, really – sooner or later it'll happen, but any particular positive is most probably accurate. Especially as she was also symptomatic, so it both walks and quacks like a covid duck.

    • Peter chch 3.2

      Maybe there was no second test. We know from past experience that what low level staff are supposed to do and what they actually do are not always the same thing.

      Unfortunately, the entire system is only as good as the weakest link. And we know also from 2020 the either Ashley Broomfield at times either tells a few porkies (eg regarding PPE supplies) or he is himself lied to.

      • Incognito 3.2.1

        The woman in question was tested twice before being released from MIQ. She was highly compliant in MIQ and super-diligent when travelling. Anything is possible but why always assume the worst possible scenario such as lying health officials and dodgy data & information? It was always a matter of when not if for something like this to happen, which is why the population should be prepared and not be(come) complacent.

        • Peter chch 3.2.1.1

          I agree with your points re 'when, not if'. And yes, the woman in question has without a doubt acted very responsibly.

          But, I well remember arriving back in NZ last year pre lockdown. I essentially just walked through, yet we were continually being lied to that all arrivals were being screened for covid. And many many lies were spun re PPE, that we know from from a memo signed by Broomfield.

    • weka 3.3

      "Why did the last test not catch the infection?"

      If she caught CV after that (or around that time).

  4. Ed 4

    Time to make scanning/ signing in compulsory and mask wearing compulsory indoors.

    Time to lower the number of arrivals.

    • Peter chch 4.1

      Compulsory mask wearing? Are you serious?

      This is one case at present, and it will be contained. A sense of proportion is vital, lest we destroy the very thing we are trying to protect: our freedom. Contact tracing and basic distancing and hand washing is sufficient for the 5 million Kiwis without the virus.

      • Ed 4.1.1

        We have compulsory mask wearing on buses and airplanes.

        Such rules should be extended to supermarkets, shops and other indoor places where strangers congregate.

        • weka 4.1.1.1

          We don't have known community transmission, it would be impossible to get people in Gore or Oamaru to wear masks in all public indoor places indefinitely on the basis of a single case of covid at the other end of the country.

          If it turns out that the Northland case is the start of community transmission/a cluster, then we have a range of things in place to rein that in, including regional lock downs.

          • McFlock 4.1.1.1.1

            I catch the bus in dunedin on wednesdays – usually the only one wearing a mask these days. I suspect there might be a few others after this news.

            • weka 4.1.1.1.1.1

              please let us know! Really curious how much it increases. I rarely see someone wearing a mask and I assume it's because they have cold symptoms. We're back to the thing of who are we protecting.

            • RedLogix 4.1.1.1.1.2

              Here in Brisbane we’ve just gone through through a 3 day lockdown, followed by another 11 days of mask wearing for very similar reasons. Very high levels of compliance – over 95% at least.

              • Forget now

                At the shops (Warehouse & supermarket) in Dunedin today, I was the only person wearing a mask. I am giving up on buses for the moment; with two children under 10, that's just too difficult. At that, I didn't even go shopping without dropping the kids of with their granny.
                Also Pchch, I sure didn’t see much in the way of basic distancing!

      • Anker 4.1.2

        Peter Chch it turns out this is the more infectious variant of Covid. What worked before may well be inadequate.

        • Peter chch 4.1.2.1

          True Anker, but my point is we really need to keep perspective here. Our primary defence is the simple things, like distancing, hand washing, avoiding coughing into the air etc.

          Things get worse, we have targeted lockdowns and then, yes masks if required. But let's remember it is, at the moment, a single case, and the level of expertise and knowledge the MOH has now far exceeds that of a year or so ago.

          Let's not destroy our open free casual life here in NZ by knee jerk panic.

          • Anne 4.1.2.1.1

            Well said Peter chch.

            Knee jerk reactions don't help anybody. If everybody just kept things in perspective and did what we are expected to do… wash hands frequently, scan or sign in wherever we go and wear a mask if its appropriate. Just walking along a road or beach with no-one in close proximity does not require a mask in most instances.

            The scientific experts know far more than the rest of us. They will tell us if and when we need to change levels or introduce mandatory settings.

            • Anker 4.1.2.1.1.1

              Oh I don't know Anne and Peter. "Knee jerk" reactions worked really well in Queensland where the more transmissible version of the virus escaped through a boarder worker and they launch a hard three day lockdown. Now as far as I am aware no cmty cases. I also note they have just closed flights from NZ due to this latest case. Good on them.

              Or we could go the Boris route where there have been no knee jerk reactions. Just moving too late.

              Adelaide went into a hard lockdown for something like three days then realized it was unnecessary, but don't see any harm in that.

          • Grafton Gully 4.1.2.1.2

            Not knee jerk panic you kiwi fuckwit just keeping up with the science and deciding that thought out, rational measures are safer than your so called "open free casual life".

  5. Cricklewood 5

    Not suprised its come out of the Pullman as I posted a few days ago the security of that facility is lax at best with those in isolation able to chat with freinds on the street and pass items across.

    • Treetop 5.1

      I did think of your post on the Pullman when I heard.

      The press conference at 1 pm will either have another community case or not. Community transmission is the worry.

      • Forget now 5.1.1

        Press conference on now:

        Covid-19 response minister Chris Hipkins says the probable case is now a confirmed case.

        The strain of infection is the South African variant and the source is likely to be another person who was in MIQ.

        The two people involve occupied rooms close to each other in the Pullman hotel. Hipkins said authorities were confident that it was a direct infection, with no other missing links…
        A decision has been made to delay the release of 46 people within the Pullman Hotel, Chris Hipkins says. They will be tested again before being released.
        Work has started on new filtration systems for air conditioning in MIQ facilities, Hipkins says…
        15 people are being treated as close contacts of the new case now, {Bloomfield} says. All have been contacted, are self isolating and have been tested.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435128/live-covid-19-updates-on-northland-community-case

    • Forget now 5.2

      Cricklewood, I haven't been onsite constantly (with school holiday fulltime parenting – so looking forward to February), whereabouts is that Pullman post of yours? Those friends in the street do seem like fiends to me. Transmission within the hotel does match best with the known timeframe:

      Even if she caught it on the flight over from the UK, that would still mean the virus lay dormant for more than two weeks.

      "That would be a very long incubation period," said Baker, a Professor of Public Health at the University of Otago.

      The World Health Organisation says the average incubation period is five to six days, but "can be up to 14 days."

      "Just based on the information we have in front of us, the most likely scenario is an infection in the MIQ facility," Professor Baker said.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435106/covid-community-case-infection-at-miq-facility-most-likely-scenario

      • Cricklewood 5.2.1

        Im sure its been a transmission within the facility but with the interactions that were going on over and through the fence over several days are, I suspect symptomatic of some pretty poor oversite in that facility.

        We could very easily have had Covid spread from the facility into the community…

  6. RedBaronCV 6

    Import just a few thousand doses of a vaccine and vaccinate people as they enter MIQ or if they work the facilities or are in an other exposed jobs.(aircrew). Do this now separate from the main rollout. That would improve our odds.

    • Koff 6.1

      There is currently no firm evidence that vaccination stops someone from transmitting the virus if infected – it might just stop them from getting sick. There's a good reason for early vaccination of frontline workers – all of them, including those that are often forgot about, cleaners, food handlers, etc., though.

      • RedBaronCV 6.1.1

        If the vaccine starts to ramp up immunity and reduce the possibility of infection after a few days then it should reduce the amount passed around in MIQ hopefully. Not necessarily eliminate but any potential reduction in numbers likely to be infected has to be something to be worked on surely – if it is relatively cheap and easy.

  7. Anker 7

    Ok just wondering given this woman has the more infectious strain from South Africa why are we not in some sort of level change? Husband not tested positive to date, but that doesn't mean much.

    Also this woman travelled overseas at the end of the year to visit relatives. Maybe she had good reason to do so (?teminally ill relative), but have heard of cases where people travel to holiday (yes that's right in a pandemic). Appreciate we can't close the boarders but how about we really restrict returnees to those in the most dire situations? This is what I think should happen.

    • weka 7.1

      I would guess Level changes are sufficiently serious that they will always wait for evidence of community transmission before doing them (and they will warn us if it's a big jump). We have to keep this sustainable. My own view is that this is the reality for at least 2021, so the behaviours we do need to be relatively acceptable to most people for the whole year. Level changes are big disruptions and costly, so there's always a balance between containing the virus and not wearing people out (costs on both sides).

      Re people travelling, I think in a free society it's very hard to restrict people's movements indefinitely, and we cannot stop citizens and residents coming home.

      We could expect people travelling from certain countries to stay in quarantine longer. This won't prevent situations like this week which is likely to come from another person in quarantine rather than the woman having a long incubation.

      • Anker 7.1.1

        I don't think we can have an entirely "free" society right now. Just because people want to travel, I don't think that is their right.

        I heard Chris H say today people can apply for places in managed isolation on compassionate grounds, but most of these get turned down. So they already have a system in place to vet people.

        I think anyone coming from a high risk country (which is just about everywhere now) should have to apply for a place in managed isolation and state their grounds for why it is imperative that they take such risky behaviour to travel home (risky to them and us as the latest case has discovered).

        Examples of good reasons to be travelling during a global pandemic in my opinion would include loss of livihood and no benefit overseas, having a medical condition that significantly increases their risk of serious illness if they got covid, loved ones here with terminal illness or who maybe have had serious accidents. I am sure there would be other grounds as well. Actually these people are quite possibly being deprived of places in MIQ by people who are coming here on holiday.

        • weka 7.1.1.1

          I have no problem with people needing to come home. There will be people who were locked into housing or work contract last year that are trying to get home now. Haere mai, let them in.

          People going out and wanting back in, I think limiting access to MIQ is better than trying to ban entry or exit. For those people I think having to apply might work, but this has to also be weighed up against a bureaucracy and inequity. There is already built in inequity because of the cost, we need to be careful of this. Limiting approvals for people from countries with major transmission problems might also be useful. Looks to me like a developing situation that we don't know too much about yet.

          • Anker 7.1.1.1.1

            I would definitely like to see entry prioritized to those most in need rather than people coming for a holiday. I have heard of this happening from a good source. It is utter selfishness, not considering that others may be in a desperate plight.

            I cannot get the selfishness and entitlement people have around this.

            Also people talk about sanitizing and social distancing, but this doesn't stop the virus. Lockdowns do. Look at Wuhan, Melbourne and NZ. Melbourne waited too late. I hope with this new more infectious strain in the community NZ doesn't make the same mistake. I would be very very surprized if there aren't more cases already in the community

            • weka 7.1.1.1.1.1

              RNZ said this earlier "48hrs before we know if Covid-19 restrictions will come after new community case", in a tweet, couldn't find anything else but haven't listened to any audio.

              Selfishness and entitlement is why we have a housing crisis, worsening poverty and climate/eco crises. The booking system for MI seems stressed enough as it is, can't imagine the admin needed to keep put Kiwis coming home for a holiday. My sister was back from the states for a while visiting my elderly parents. She might not see them again. Is that a holiday?

              • Anker

                I agree about selfishness and entitlement re housing. That's why I haven't bought a rental property.

                I wouldn't comment about your sister as I think that is personalizing things.

                I know for myself I wouldn't travel home (if I was overseas) unless it was essential. I would judge this to be if I had lost my job and had no means of supporting myself, or I had a medical condition that put me at significant risk or I was separated from my immediate family i.e. those I usually live with. Or if I had a close family relative who was terminally ill. Other than that i would really have to ask myself if I really thought I should risk bringing the virus into the country, putting boarder workers and small businesses at risk for some need I might have.

              • Anker

                I agree about selfishness and entitlement re housing. That's why I haven't bought a rental property.

                I wouldn't comment about your sister as I think that is personalizing things.

                I know for myself I wouldn't travel home (if I was overseas) unless it was essential. I would judge this to be if I had lost my job and had no means of supporting myself, or I had a medical condition that put me at significant risk or I was separated from my immediate family i.e. those I usuallyli

    • Grafton Gully 7.2

      Visiting a terminally ill relative is does not justify travel that puts vulnerable fellow citizens at increased risk. The terminally ill relative might be glad she stayed way.

      • Anker 7.2.1

        GG, that is the sort of detail that should be worked out.

      • McFlock 7.2.2

        I disagree. There always has to be a recognition of the human element. The risks are mitigated not eliminated, but people aren't robots.

        We can't all live like monks for a year or not visit dying loved ones without the longer term effects being worse than the risks of a quarantine failure. People break under stress just as much as from covid.

        Sure, family holidays to Disneyland are out, but if your mum or sister is terminal I'm not going to pretend she'll be glad you didn't hold her hand one more time.

  8. Koff 8

    I think that most people are quick to adapt when necessary and are quite aware of what's happening elsewhere in the world. I've been in Queensland since April last year and have hardly seen a single mask worn let alone a QR code scanned until the recent Brisbane community case which was very similar to the current Northland one – mask wearing compliance went to 99% straight away in greater Brisbane with few people grumbling anout the 3 day lockdown. As soon as masks were deemed unnecessary again after a 14 day period, no-one was wearing them again. The problems remain in keeping the virus within the quarantine facilities, not outside.

    • RedLogix 8.1

      Yup … same experience here. It was quite impressive how we got to such a high compliance with mask wearing so very quickly.

  9. joe90 9

    Helpful thread on masks.

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1353186978519539712.html

    (Bloomberg) — Germany has ratcheted up rules for wearing face masks, becoming the first major European country to require medical-grade protection in shops and public transit in hopes of controlling faster-spreading strains of the coronavirus. Chancellor Angela Merkel announced the measures alongside new curbs late Tuesday, mandating that people wear surgical masks or higher-specification N95 or FFP-2 devices rather than simply donning cloth face coverings.

    […]

    German Health Minister Jens Spahn said Wednesday there is currently no indication that there will be production bottlenecks for FFP-2 masks or similar equipment. The government is in the process of sending out vouchers for 12 of the masks to 34.1 million citizens, he added.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/01/20/germany-mandates-medical-grade-masks/?

    • weka 9.1

      Interesting. Hard to know how much of that applies to NZ.

      Issues:

      is there enough supply for everyone globally?

      can we please keep up the messaging about who gets protected by masks

      cloths masks are still good if that is all you have, mention this upfront.

      • Forget now 9.1.1

        Even a bandana is better than nothing, and at least the cloth ones can be washed. I do have a pack of disposables for backup, but really don't like throwing them away after a single use. Especially as that's $3-$4 every time you leave the house (depending on how big a pack you get of n95s). If you are on a benefit, that can be 10% of your "disposable income" for the week.

        • weka 9.1.1.1

          where do you buy N95s?

          • Forget now 9.1.1.1.1

            Bunnings have them advertised at 5 for $15 (KN95, N95 is $60 for 20), but that's if there's one nearby where you are. Unichem is $15 for 2 (NZ made), and out of stock at that. This portal to online suppliers has a useful chart of how the various types differ, though I don't know how accurate or sponsered it is:

            https://www.finder.com/nz/buy-p2-face-mask-online

            • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

              ta. I'm ok with those international websites keeping theirs for countries that really need them.

        • Foreign waka 9.1.1.2

          FN:

          I have talked to family in Europe. They have compulsory wearing of P2 masks and it is also proposed that you can rotate those, one each day and air them out for 7 days. How feasible this is remains to be seen as not everybody is so fastidious.

          What needs to be considered too is the unbelievable mountain of rubbish all that PPE creates. I think a conversation needs to be had whether a collection point(s) for gloves and masks can be established and some recycling effort put into this. Another opportunity for employment creation perhaps?

  10. solkta 10

    My ex spent EIGHT hours today sitting in her car in Ruakaka waiting for a covid test. Ruakaka is only an hour and a half drive from Auckland. Why the fuck can't there be a better response than this?

  11. Karl Sinclair 11

    Speculation on COVID-19 origins

    I know your going to hate this link, but give it ago, seems legitimate (you decide)

    Essentially Fauci allegedly commissioned gain in function virus research that was banned (2014) by Obama in USA. Wuhan was a recipient of the funding from this commission…………

    Allegedly Peter Daszak (ECO Health alliance) who were awarded the work gave Wuhan the funding for gain in function research (aka a virus can be engineered to be more deadly).

    Peter Daszak ironically heads the investigation that down plays the lab origins……

    If true WTF

    Steve Hilton investigates origins of COVID-19, links to US commissioned research

    https://video.foxnews.com/v/6225847837001

    Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.

    • Forget now 11.1

      KS, that seems as faux as a Fox, especially with the number of ifs and "allegedly(s)". Though, being capable of using a search-engine for myself, I didn't bother clicking through your links. It hardly seems strange that someone who is involved in studying the international spread of viruses might conduct work, you know; between nations.

      Dr. Daszak’s research has been instrumental in identifying and predicting the origins and impact of emerging diseases across the globe. This includes identifying the bat origin of SARS, the drivers of Nipah virus emergence, publishing the first global emerging disease ‘hotspots’ map, discovering SADS coronavirus, designing a strategy to identify the number of unknown viruses in wildlife, launching the Global Virome Project, identifying the first case of a species extinction due to disease, and discovering the disease chytridiomycosis as the cause global amphibian declines. He is one of the founders of the field of Conservation Medicine and has been instrumental in the growth of EcoHealth, One Health, and now Planetary Health.

      A fundamental part of the Dr. Daszak’s work on disease ecology is directed by the conviction that disease outbreaks are not just predictable, but preventable. This approach is informed by a perspective on emerging infectious disease research that sees problems of human and animal disease as intimately linked – exacerbated by ecological change. With this in mind, he led the researcher {Sic} that produced the first ever global emerging disease ‘hotspots’ map to determine where in the world viruses with pandemic potential are most likely to emerge, and developed a strategy to identify just how many of those viruses currently exist.

      https://covid19commission.org/peter-daszak

      http://www.globalviromeproject.org/

      • Karl Sinclair 11.1.1

        Hi Forget Now

        If you had clicked on the link, they already explained the background behind Dr Dazaks work, Fox weren’t hiding that (he’s known in that research circle as Batman)

        The point is that gain in function research was not allowed by the US, yet utilised the Wuhan lab. If you follow your logic, your saying it’s ok for the person who contracted out the work is the very same person who conducts an investigation…… “it hardly seems strange”

        Cheers

        • Forget now 11.1.1.1

          I trust Drazak's integrity more than Fox News', KS. Especially when he is noted for his conviction that Anthropological Global Warming is causally related to cross-species viral progression.

          Perhaps you have links to another source for these allegedly defamatory claims?

          Cheers

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