So much for democracy

Written By: - Date published: 12:50 pm, February 17th, 2009 - 21 comments
Categories: community democracy, greens, national/act government - Tags:

The Greens have released advice from the Ministry of Justice confirming that the Government’s rushed RMA changes will prevent legitimate cases going to court and undermine fundamental justice rights.

According to the leaked cabinet paper:

‘the [financial] risks associated with security of costs can act as a barrier for those with legitimate cases but little money’.

‘Ministry of Justice and other officials consider the appeal right is a fundamental right, there has been insufficient time to consider the implications of this option, and it should be considered at phase two’.

So, that’s sorted then. The Government is limiting the ability of ordinary Kiwis to have their say over developments in their communities in order to make life easier for big developers. So much for democracy, eh?

21 comments on “So much for democracy”

  1. djp 1

    Actually no…

    being able to restrict what others can do with their property is not a fundamental pillar of democracy

    you may want to reassess the dictionary definition of ‘democracy’

  2. No one should have the right to tell other people what they can do to their property if its not directly affecting them.

  3. Matthew Pilott 3

    Brett – Stop driving your car, you’re affecting my air.

    No one owns air, so no one is allowed to do anything that damages it by your logic.

  4. That’s a strange argument? By the way I don’t own a car, I never have.

    I agree, people can do what they like with their property, I was talking about extreme cases, like the guy who put in massive lights in his backyard that lit up the whole neighborhood.

    If I want to buy the house next to Keith Locke’s and buy a flag pole and fly the biggest Israeli flag I can find, right outside his bedroom window, so its the first thing he sees when he wakes up, then I should be allowed.

  5. Kerry 5

    Tories and democracy dont go hand in hand, just like decency and intellience dont fit with them either!

    Are we a Banana republic yet?

  6. BLiP 6

    Who’s really surprised? National’s disdain for democracy was detailed, layer by stinking layer, in Hagar’s book “The Hollow Men” – when Donald failed to make the grade, the exact same template was lifted and fitted over the equally empty and vacuous Goober John Key.

    Hey presto – big business has its own Manchurian Candidate sitting in the ninth floor.

  7. lukas 7

    Kerry- you are a grade A arse.

    [lprent: Attack the ideas – do not just attack the person. Otherwise I’ll demonstrate how I attack people. ]

  8. Rex Widerstrom 8

    Damnit, I happen to be in favour of a rejig of the RMA but why on earth must everything be done in a rush?

    Make law in haste, repeal at leisure – to misquote an old maxim – seems to have become the standard MO of National, just as it was becoming more and more Labour’s before the change of government.

    For ***** sake we have a Parliamentary system for a reason, you clowns (in Parliament). If you’re going to sever the consultative and amending processes from the equation then you might as well send home the Opposition and most of your own backbench MPs and rule by decree rather than maintaining the expensive edifice and the trappings of a democracy with none of its substance.

    And if you’re going to do that, then we reserve the right to respond as others have done in the past. Vive le guillotine.

  9. Matthew Pilott 9

    That’s a strange argument?

    Good question Brett. the answer is “no it isn’t”. Go to the library, find the easiest-to-read book with the topic ‘Global Commons” and get back to me.

    Then we can start to build a reasonable definition of “property”.

    P.S. Where do you live? I need to talk to your neighbours about this 16sq/m Hammer and Sickle flag I got off e-Bay…

  10. lukas 10

    [lprent: Attack the ideas – do not just attack the person. Otherwise I’ll demonstrate how I attack people. ]

    Iprent, normally I would completely agree with you, but can you please tell me how this “Tories and democracy dont (sic) go hand in hand, just like decency and intellience (sic) dont (sic) fit with them either!” is not a blatant generalisation attack on all the right wing commentators here?

  11. BLiP 11

    lukas said:

    ” . . .Iprent, normally I would completely agree with you, but can you please tell me how this “Tories and democracy dont go hand in hand, just like decency and intellience dont fit with them either!’ is not a blatant generalisation attack on all the right wing commentators here? . . .”

    Stop your blubbering – there’s a huge difference between a sweeping generalisation you happen disagree with, and a vulgar insult such as yours.

    In fact, your response confirms that you fit easily into the sweeping generalisation. As well as defending National’s disdain for democracy you appear also to have little, if any, decency or intelligence as evidenced by your abuse.

  12. Pilott:

    LOL about the hammer and sickle flag, I actually always wanted to go to Russia,

    I have always wanted to start collecting countries flags, if only there was a place where you could buy them.

  13. lukas 14

    Blip… if you consider that a vulgar insult you need to get a bit more sunshine… or visit http://robinsod.wordpress.com

  14. BLiP 15

    lukas

    Hehehe – yeah, fair nuff. The Sod is, by far, the master of the vulgar insult.

  15. lukas 16

    Blip, yep… but its kind of like a car crash… you want to look away, but you just can’t help but stare as you go past.

  16. Ag 17

    If I want to buy the house next to Keith Locke’s and buy a flag pole and fly the biggest Israeli flag I can find, right outside his bedroom window, so its the first thing he sees when he wakes up, then I should be allowed.

    Yes, because if we generalized this principle, then it wouldn’t lead to members of the public fighting each other and resorting to sabotage to resolve such disputes. Finally, the public would have to pick up the tab (you see, adopting a stern tone of voice and instructing people to “behave” isn’t really an effective social policy).

    There’s something wrong with right wing people that renders them incapable of understanding what “externalities” are. The primary purpose of the RMA is to prevent people externalizing the costs of their behaviour onto non-consenting parties. The system of property rights is incomplete, so we need regulation to fill in the wholes.

    I wonder sometimes if right wing people really are that stupid, because they can’t stop talking about the “Tragedy of the Commons” as a means of criticizing socialist policies, and yet they cannot make the short mental leap to realizing that the RMA exists to prevent the same phenomenon.

    Look, if you don’t understand what externalities are, and you don’t understand what a collective action problem is, then you have no business discussing politics at all, because most political issues concern these. Either educate yourself, or stop wasting bandwidth.

    Almost the entire political right is guilty of monumental stupidity because they don’t understand the simple principles by which every modern society and economy operates.

  17. Matthew Pilott 18

    Brett – if you’re ever in Wellington, try Comrades in the James Smith Market – it comes highly recommended. I’ll donate my USSR (note: Russian flag looks more like Czech Republic/France these days, Hammer and Sickle is long gone) flag to kick your collection off. I just bought it to annoy you and it seems that won’t work, so you might as well have it.

    lukas, I know what you were trying to say but imagine, for a minute, you’re at the pub and someone pretty walks by. You point them out to your mates and say “that’s some grade-A arse”.

    Haven’t you just complemented them?

    And I can’t see the link between recognising vulgarity and getting more sunshine. given what’s on TV and online (i.e. out of the sunshine) I’d have thought an inverse relationship stands there!

  18. Tane 19

    Matthew P – I think Comrades has moved out to Jackson Street, Petone.

  19. Matthew Pilott:

    Thanks for the headsup of the Wellington store, and the offer, I was just talking to a mate and he has actually got a Russian flag, so I’m all sorted.

    But thanks anyway.

  20. lukas 21

    MP- lukas, I know what you were trying to say but imagine, for a minute, you’re at the pub and someone pretty walks by. You point them out to your mates and say “that’s some grade-A arse’.

    Haven’t you just complemented them?

    And I can’t see the link between recognising vulgarity and getting more sunshine. given what’s on TV and online (i.e. out of the sunshine) I’d have thought an inverse relationship stands there!

    There are a number of things I would like to point out that are wrong in this statement. Firstly I called Kerry you are a grade A arse. That is somewhat different to saying that they are some grade-A arse for reasons that should be obvious.

    Second, I am married so not likely to comment on any other females (or males for that matter!) arse, other than my wife.

    Thirdly, as much as I somewhat despise the rabid feminists out there at the moment and how extreme they have become, I think you would rightly get a slapping if you said that to any female at a bar!

    So to answer your question, no I have not just complemented them.

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