Tat Loo: Viper Pilot

Written By: - Date published: 12:40 pm, October 20th, 2013 - 333 comments
Categories: labour - Tags:

Hi Standardistas. As a proponent of democratic socialism who is influenced by resilient systems thinking, I often find financial sites like marketwatch.com highly informative.

On the evening of October 10, the front page stories on marketwatch.com included how NZ Government debt was a superior investment to US Treasuries; how 41% of the world’s wealth was owned by the top 0.7%; and how the Swiss were about to vote in a referendum to give their citizens an “Unconditional Basic Income” (UBI) set at a remarkable US$34,000 p.a. That’s serious democracy in a nation which has long figured out its economic niche in the world.

In comparison, the John Key Government is covered with a Wall St stench of plutocracy. The favouring of anti-democratic goals, blatant corporate welfare and the boringly predictable transfer of public wealth to the top 5% is a repeat of the same globalised neoliberal recipe of the last 30 years. Regrettably, the lack of evolution in rentier capitalist thinking over the decades cannot be considered any surprise.

Strategically however, a small country like ours needs friends, financing, and a high value economy in order to advance a broad agenda of social justice, community resiliency and economic equality. These are critical ingredients that the first Labour/Greens government must get right if it is to accomplish anything of lasting significance. Bill Sutch knew this well, linking the power of the private sector with government into a nationwide project to build social and economic security for all New Zealanders. That multi-decades project ended sadly in 1984, with the Roger Douglas Labour Government. It’s now time to relaunch New Zealand’s real economic future.

So what should a Labour led Government offer NZ instead? A few suggestions: it should closely partner with specific sectors and enterprises to forward a vision of a diverse and resilient sovereign democracy. Mining and exploration should continue, but only given rigorous conditions and criteria in accordance with international best practice. Relevant ownership structures and regulation must create maximum value and minimum risk for our country. We also need to further develop and advantage our nation’s promising food, manufacturing and high tech export industries, while asking more of them in the nationwide interest. Even so, our remaining runway to a renewables powered future is short, perhaps just 25 years. We therefore have to urgently turn our minds to innovative, job rich, long-term economic projects. For instance, New Zealand is one of a few advanced nations which stands a chance of developing a fully-renewables powered transportation network, one which can keep our economy on the move post-fossil fuels.

Here are eight more ‘big picture’ concepts for the first Labour/Greens government to apply:

  1. Our people, our land and water, our collective know-how, our sovereignty, our community cohesion and our real terms of trade comprise Aotearoa’s true wealth. In comparison, electronically generated currency units and paper assets are easily manipulable, ephemeral and transient.
  2. A people who are rootless, misinformed, and ignorant are ripe for subjugation and distraction. Therefore, a full commitment to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, as well as delivering on a comprehensive programme of civics education and public media, is crucial. Bruce Jesson understood this well, stating that “history is the essence of nationhood”; he knew that in order for the neoliberal project to be successful, New Zealand’s proud progressive history needed to be “cancelled out” through a kind of nationwide amnesia. Therefore in my view, “the sleeper must awaken.”
  3. Kiwis deeply want to feel pride in themselves and in Aotearoa. The ‘Kiwi dream’ is far more nuanced than the beamer, boat, bach meme. After decades of small target managerialism, Kiwis are ready for big ideas to swing in behind, especially if it provides them and their children with decent incomes, good career pathways and linkages into the evolving story of these shaky islands.
  4. NZ is a currency sovereign. The Government is not just a user of NZD, it is an issuer of NZD. Therefore, it does not have to rely solely on taxation and borrowing to fund its economic vision (unless it chooses to).
  5. The vital economic questions facing us will gradually transform from whether or not there is ‘enough money’ available to get a job done, to whether or not there are ‘enough physical resources’ (e.g. water, skilled people) available to get it done. This is a fundamental paradigm change that we must ready our economic practice and theory for.
  6. Exponential economic growth based on quantity and volume is utterly (udderly?) unsustainable. Only qualitative growth, e.g. improvements in: value, creativity, design and inclusiveness – will prove physically (and morally) sustainable.
  7. Societal resilience is strengthened by reducing inequality, building not-for-profit community based assets, and encouraging democratisation of the economy and of workplaces. Unions have a central and critical role to play as economic change agents, but this extends further, to the very design and governance of organisations themselves. Ricardo Semler summarised it by stating “If we do not let people do things the way they do, we will never know what they are really capable of and they will just follow our boarding school rules.”
  8. Like most OECD nations, ours is aging fast. One saving grace is the relative youth and strength of our Māori and Pasifika populations, a fact that I believe will prove decisive in the coming decades but which many political leaders have yet to grasp. We can ill-afford the unequal social justice, mental health, and economic outcomes that we are foisting on to our young people today. To that end, a policy of full employment and training for all New Zealanders 25 years and under, with the Government serving as the ultimate social security employer, is a must.

Aotearoa faces several civilisation and sovereignty impacting “mega-trends” (to borrow a David Cunliffe phrase). We must get ahead of these mega-trends, before they overrun us. The good news: a small, smart, socially interconnected nation like New Zealand is well placed to do exactly that. We can no longer justify being stuck in third gear, passively accepting the morale and wealth destroying output gap long justified by neoliberal contrivances and highly paid bank economists. A hard hitting combination of financial sector buy-in, private sector innovation, democratic civic organisation and public sector leadership is what it will take to move Aotearoa ahead. It is long past time to say to voters loud and clear: yes, there are real alternatives.

(I will be at the upcoming Labour Party Conference in Christchurch as part of the Dunedin North delegation. If you are coming along I look forward to seeing you there, sharing a beer or three, and talking through exciting plans for 2014).

By Tat Loo a.k.a. “Colonial Viper”

tat loo billboard

I stood as the Labour candidate for Clutha-Southland against Bill English in 2011. This year I was an unsuccessful first-time candidate in the Dunedin City Council elections (Central Ward), placing 21st out of 35 candidates. I have previously commented under the pseudonym “Colonial Viper” (CV) I am grateful for the political economic and rhetorical education that I have gained while interacting with the full spectrum of Standardistas. I speak for and represent only myself on The Standard.


Update: All links now working.

333 comments on “Tat Loo: Viper Pilot”

  1. Jim Nald 1

    “mega-trends” – Yes, I would like to hear more discussed about these and the state [pun] of preparedness and preparation for them. Something other than TINA (there is no alternative) and a lot more about TARAs (there are real alternatives).

    Looking forward to reading more pieces from you, Tat!

  2. millsy 2

    So CV unmasks himself…

    Pleased to meet you Tat.

    I hope that we see more of you in the future, under the NZLP banner, of course (a senior cabinet post in the centennial 2035 Labour government, that celebrates 21 years in power, in contrast to a beaten and bedgraggled National party, still clinging to the 30 year “experiment” that was ditched after Labour and the Greens came to power in 2014 and began their record 7 terms in power?)..

  3. Peter 3

    Excellent stuff. In my time in the New Zealand Labour Party (I rejoined last year, around the time of a possible leadership vote) I’ve often found that members and candidates tend to duck the hard economic questions and thus cede the debating ground to the right, without a fight. With this post above you’ve shown yourself to be one of the few Labour members I know who is prepared to articulate a clear economic vision for NZ.

    Well done.

  4. weka 4

    Coming out in style! Well done mate. Don’t hold back 😉 And long live TARA.

    Is this the end of an era with CV? Looking forward to what is coming next.

    Udderly? Lolz.

    • tatloo 4.1

      Thanks weka! It is a bit of an end of an era, but CV will still pop up unexpectedly I am sure. Yes goodbye TINA hello TARA!!!

    • Tim 4.2

      How good it is to see someone prepared to challenge the mantra. I was thinking about it the other day actually …. TINA (there is no alternative) as neo-liberal ‘buzz’ – when of course there are ALWAYS alternatives. The mantra that got swallowed hook, line and sinker (and still is by quite a few esprayshnuls).
      Then there was TRICKLE DOWN that defied gravity
      Then there was the FREE MARKET that never was and still isn’t
      We’ve had CHANGE AGENTS who never were but who simply sought to implement their agenda
      We had POSITIONINGs (usually used to justify some future nirvana)
      FLEXIBILITY – usually used to justify the removal of some basic human right
      EFFICIENCY and EFFECTIVENESS – more often than not used to justify some corporate takeover or privatisation of things we already own

      …. and let’s not get into PRUDENT ECONOMIC MANAGEMENT, or DEREGULATION.
      Thankfully, I notice ‘LEARNINGS” is off to a bit of a shaky start (probably because its a Bridges/fuckwit favourite)

      Challenge the lingo at every turn!
      These inventions are designed to fool the populace

      • Tim 4.2.1

        Btw … everyone/anyone: PLEASE add to the list. Above are just a few that get on my wick but you could probably compile a dictionary

        • Dan1

          One phrase I particularly dislike is when Capital Gains Tax is mentioned or increasing the retirement age is up for discussion, the put down is “That is the politics of envy!” The Nacts frequently use it.

          Far from the politics of envy, it is the politics of fairness.

          Great post Tat Loo. I have always maintained that Labour should
          front foot policy.

          • Tim

            Oh Christ .. I just thought of another beauty.
            It came about when DOWNSIZING became unfashionable: RIGHTSIZING.

            It’d be so nice if we were actually right-sized. I think RIGHTSIZING was actually LOPSIZING in disguise.

            Anyhow – let’s not hijack this thread.
            Kudos and appreciation to Tat Loo

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.2

        Challenge the lingo at every turn!
        These inventions are designed to fool the populace


      • Rogue Trooper 4.2.3

        well, wot can I say… 😉 Rationalization : “Marx and Engels associated the emergence of modern society above all with the development of capitalism; for Durkheim it was connected in particular with industrialization and the new social division of labour which this brought about; for Weber it had to do with the emergence of a distinctive way of thinking, the rational calculation which he associated with the Protestant Ethic (more or less what Marx and Engels speak of in terms of those ‘icy waves of egotistical calculation’).
        -John Harris , The Second Great Transformation ? .

      • millsy 4.2.4

        “CROWDING OUT”

  5. Te Reo Putake 5

    Blow me down! I always figured you for an inner westie, based somewhere near DC’s nether regions. Now I understand why Clare Curran felt so threatened 😉

    • tatloo 5.2

      There is a bit of an inner westie in there somewhere mate! As for your local political analysis: no comment lol.

    • newsense 5.3

      yeh- it is interesting the assumptions I had made when reading the Vipers comments and also had for some reason read Colonial as Colonel…

    • Not a PS Staffer 5.4


      CV is not perfect. Tat has the disadvantage of not being a Westie. Fortunately he compensates in many other ways. I did spy that smiling face in the Black Salt in New Lynn on the night of Cunliffe’s Leadership victory party. I hope he comes to West Auckland from time to time to inhale the essence on that blesses locale and bring the fight to Dunedin North.
      The next Selection Convention there will ve fun!

  6. Tigger 6

    Great post, CV. Will be at conference so I will say hello.

  7. Bill 7

    Bloody nice post. Don’t usually read the overly long ones, but this one was engaging. Anyway… to the point.

    Universal income and a jobs rich environment. If the former, then no real need for the latter. Rather, available jobs could (should) be allowed and encouraged only if they satisfy given social and environmental yard sticks. So, no more soul destroying crap jobs that exist only because the economy is geared to allow (demand acceptance of) the exploitation of some by others. Socially and environmentally worthwhile or necessary jobs available to supplement a living UI really is the only realistic option available in any future that can happen and persist.

    A second unrelated point is this ‘strengthening of local communities’ that I’ve heard mentioned by D. Cunliffe and that you also mention in your post. See, that could be positive and way overdue if it is the actual people who comprise the community being empowered. But if instead, power is invested in existing formal, or future more informal, bureaucratic structures, then it would constitute a massively damaging mis-step.

    And I suspect the future shape of the Labour Party will hinge on that question of where power in various situations is vested. Old traditionalists (statists and their ilk) will insist, by and large, that bureaucracies will need strengthening. And if they hold sway, then any ‘new dawn’ for Labour is going to turn into one of those endless shitty days nobody can be really bothered with and that everyone wishes would just end.

    • Tat Loo 7.1

      Yep. No one wants or needs a new breed of Political Commissars appointed from Wellington and parachuted into local communities and bureaucracies telling communities what to do.

      Bill, do you have system access to edit the links in my post? None of them are working properly because there is a random single symbol appended to the end of the links. Would be much obliged.

      [lprent; I see that he is currently editing it, so I won’t bother. Nursing my after the birthday (sisters 50th) head at work. ]

      [Bill : Done, bar the ‘superior investemnt’ link and the pdf from Waikato. Mbe if you refind and submit in long form, then someone can fix them up properly?]

  8. QoT 8

    Pleased to meet you, Tat!

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    Regrettably, the lack of evolution in rentier capitalist thinking over the decades millennia cannot be considered any surprise.


    Capitalist rentier thinking goes all the way back to the birthplace of Western civilisation 5000 years ago in Sumer. It didn’t work then either and is the reason why the religions that have their origins the area all proclaim interest to be anathema.

    Strategically however, a small country like ours needs friends, financing, and a high value economy in order to advance a broad agenda of social justice, community resiliency and economic equality.

    Nope, what we need is a diverse economy/society that is not dependent upon foreign “friends” or financing.

    NZ is a currency sovereign. The Government is not just a user of NZD, it is an issuer of NZD. Therefore, it does not have to rely solely on taxation and borrowing to fund its economic vision (unless it chooses to).

    The NZ government should be the sole issuer of NZ currency. The issuance of the currency by the government should be spent directly into the economy. This can be in several areas: Resource extraction, R&D, farming, education, etc. Essentially, the government should be the base of the entire economy. In this version of finances taxes aren’t funding the government but are the destruction of the money created by the government so as to prevent the over abundance of money (Which is what we see now with the private banks being the creator of most of the money in the system).

    Ricardo Semler summarised it by stating “If we do not let people do things the way they do, we will never know what they are really capable of and they will just follow our boarding school rules.”

    Which is one of the many reasons why I support a UBI and free education. Support and encourage people to follow their own paths and our society will become much greater. The present neo-liberal paradigm of only supporting the rich and victim blaming everyone else can only result in the destruction of our society.

    The good news: a small, smart, socially interconnected nation like New Zealand is well placed to do exactly that.


    We can no longer justify being stuck in third gear…

    Still can’t find reverse..

    • Tat Loo 9.1

      Nope, what we need is a diverse economy/society that is not dependent upon foreign “friends” or financing.

      Don’t disagree DTB, but for the next few years I think we have to play the game with the cards we hold in hand, not the cards we wished we held.

  10. Philgwellington Wellington 10

    Nice Tat! I love it when I read well referenced material with some analysis. Wow. If it were only real. I’ve become jaded,
    disillusioned and cynical. When I
    read of the Labour MP’S in the Sky Corporate box

    • Tat Loo 10.1

      Yeah I went through the disillusioned/cynical phase myself, mate. Seems like the sun is coming back up tho!

  11. Curtis 11

    I’ll be part of the Dunedin North delegation too. So I’m sure I’ll be seeing you

  12. Chooky 12

    well CV….fancy that!…I thought you were a Wellingtonian sitting up in the hills somewhere….with nothing else to do…..but I always thought your political analysis was spot on and you were super smart….will miss CV!….but hello TatLoo ! ( call me gobsmacked)

    • Tat Loo 12.1

      Chooky aka gobsmacked. Hi 🙂

      • gobsmacked 12.1.1

        Chooky may be gobsmacked, but isn’t “gobsmacked”. That is I. Just to be clear 🙂

        • Tat Loo

          ha! loud and clear!

        • Chooky

          …sorry gobsmacked !…but I was for a wee while

          ….should have said to CV “You could have knocked me over with a feather duster!” or “knocked me off the perch!”

          …..all us chookys are bug eyed and very alert!

          ….er ummm….now …… CV /Tat Loo …. this is interesting!

    • Lanthanide 12.2

      I assumed a mover-and-shaker in Dunedin or surrounds, thanks to CC’s rabid involvement. Never expected an actual candidate, though.

  13. Zorr 13

    Very very nicely written and I applaud you for daring to put a face to the name of Colonial Viper 🙂

    With this Labour party hopefully ascendant to government next year, it’ll be important to have loud voices like yours calling for these kinds of progressive, socially-inclusive policies.

    I actually have very little to fault your post on apart from the fact that potentially New Zealand should become even more “risk averse” and over compensate (a little) for the feet dragging of the rest of the world. We need to go from last in the pack (where National have left us) to leading the field again. Thankfully, as a small nation, this is easier for us than for the behemoths of our globe.

    It’s because of people like you that I’ll be joining Labour to help keep Cunliffe’s feet over the fire and hold him accountable for his promises.

    • Tat Loo 13.1

      Hey Zorr, thanks so much, it will be great to have you on the Labour train.

      One reason that I ‘came out’ was that a Cunliffe government will need to listen to and represent a wide range of views. We can all see that the standard orthodoxy is not just failing NZ, but failing peoples all over the world. Having ‘de-cloaked’ CV I can now push these points a little harder from within the party, as myself.

      Regardless, at last count probably over a hundred people knew who CV actually was (hmmm speaking of myself in the third person…), so it was already an open secret in several circles.

  14. just saying 14

    Laughed out loud, CV (if I can still call you that).
    The only part of the picture I had in my head of you was your (presumed) gender.
    Now I have to merge two very different people that I have existing impressions of, into one.
    Very pleased to meet you – and great post.

    • Tat Loo 14.1

      Thanks js…and yes it’s a bit of a head frak when this kind of mental mismatch happens. All part of the fun 🙂

      • just saying 14.1.1

        You realise you’ll have to spill on where and when you people hold your “secret squirrel” meetings now…..

        • just saying

          The electorate meetings to be specific.

          • Tat Loo

            The different Labour branches in Dunedin North meet at different regularities and venues; I’d say that placing a phone call to David Clark’s electorate office on Albany St is the best bet to find out. Although I fear you may have already tried this…

            • just saying

              Yeah, agent 86 in the office maintained the ‘cone of silence’ rather well.

      • Chooky 14.1.2

        Re Mental Mismatch

        …If there were to be a big ‘Standardista Coming Out Party’….I expect there would be huge shocks all around!

        …that person you thought was an academic might be a a member of a motorbike gang for example ….and vice versa.

        ..personally I find this anonymity intriguing..it is the perfect classless society …(and also raceless and genderless and ageless) ….hence it precludes automatic stereotyping and pecking orders

        ….creating a cauldron of ideas which can be thrashed out on their own merits

        • lprent

          Who you are is determined about how well you can argue and link to supporting material. It has been like that on computer networks since I started playing around on them since 1980.

          What you know about people is what they care to share. What they rely upon requires them to exhibit knowledge in accordance with their claims, and that is done to a skeptical audience with the whole of the net available, usually with the knowledge to locate it.

          The only thing it needs to moderation to stop the YELLERS trying to talk over people. Around here, they have me and the other mods to deal with.

        • Rogue Trooper

          defenses are annealed Chooky

  15. Olwyn 15

    What a lovely, encouraging post after all the jaw-droppingly nasty Auckland stuff. I am not sure whether I will be at the conference in Christchurch, but if I am I will look out for you and say hi. Good on you too for staying around when you were put under all that pressure to shut up.

    • Tat Loo 15.1

      People like yourself Olwyn and others on the Standard were of a great help to me during that time.

  16. felix 16

    Hi Tat! (do we call you Tat or Loo?)

    lol Dunedin North

  17. Rhinocrates 17


  18. viv k 18

    You say mining and exploration should continue. Mining for what? Fossil fuels? ‘International best practice’ are weasel words, they merely describe the best way to do a really bad thing. We know fossil fuels are changing the climate and acidifying the oceans, what we don’t know is whether the Labour party will wise up and stand up and do something about it. When you are all at your conference you need to decide if you are going to facilitate the fossil fuel industry’s destruction of the biosphere by allowing them to drill for oil while you hide behind phrases like ‘rigourous conditions’. Or will you be brave enough to send the oil companies packing and lead the world? Like we did when we became nuclear free.

    • Peter 18.1

      Fossil fuel usage and climage change are predicaments, not problems, in that there are no solutions, only adaptations. If there was an easy way, technically, socially, politically, and economically (and when you reply, I’d encourage you to think about these four spheres of possibilities and how they limit our range of options). Add to that time, and the cost of any change.

      To transform NZ’s transport, it will take energy and resources, and that involves burning fossil fuels. It’s either do that, or nothing at all.

    • Tat Loo 18.2

      When you are all at your conference you need to decide if you are going to facilitate the fossil fuel industry’s destruction of the biosphere

      Our civilisation’s addiction to fossil fuels is real and it is deep. Getting off fossil fuels in a structured way which doesn’t strain and tear away at society is going to require major planning and investment. Which by the way will create a lot of jobs, develop new expertise and technology, and increase the value of our economic activity.

      Or will you be brave enough to send the oil companies packing and lead the world?

      There will be a lot of angry people around if we were to try and shut down all the petrol stations and diesel pumps around the country in the next 12 or 24 months. It’s really not going to happen.

    • gobsmacked 18.3

      Fossil fuels aren’t the only thing that can be mined. Other minerals, other valid uses.

      The problem is getting genuinely independent analysis of the costs/benefits. All these projects are accompanied by a bunch of reports from the industry “consultants”, telling us that the country will benefit (or at least, the consultants will). It’s all predictably Mandy Rice-Davies.

      I don’t think Labour should Just Say No to mining. Just ask hard questions, and not settle for self-serving answers.

  19. Peter Revell 19

    Congratulations, Well articulated, look forward to more

  20. Philgwellington Wellington 20

    So you clearly think that Labour will not be seduced, or prostituted to corporate Interests, again?

    • Tat Loo 20.1

      We’ve seen how important it is to Labour to have a vocal, active, and occasionally non-compliant membership base. Going forward, that is going to be as important as ever to make sure that those in Wellington don’t accidentally ‘lose their way’.

      That and continuing to democratise how things are done in the party.

      • Anne 20.1.1

        Oooh Tat don’t use that phrase “going forward” ever again. It’s terrible.

        At last you’ve done it. 😀 Now we can start twisting the arms of our branch and LEC members before next year’s list selection. The Labour caucus needs you and your brilliant brain.

  21. Good to put a face to the voice and a real person to the words, Tat.
    Do I still call you Mr Snake? Or would you prefer Rocket man?

  22. joe90 22

    Pleased to meet you Tat.

    (not quite the CV I’d imagined – but only by decade or two)

    • Tat Loo 22.1

      😉 joe90, greetings. It really is fascinating to hear different peoples perceptions of CV.

  23. Rogue Trooper 23

    ahhh, Dunedin, have ridden through a number of times, stayed the night, to ride some more.
    Ate, drank, and was very merry.
    Returned a few years ago to pick up the GPz 1000R and rode that back up here.
    Fond memories, firm I was workshop-manager for are also based there.
    You and Flockie could hide-out together.

    well, here’s Riding With Jim 😎

    btw, well-written article.

    • Tat Loo 23.1

      Thank you sir…

    • weka 23.2

      “You and Flockie could hide-out together.”

      Hide tanning more like 😉

    • David H 23.3

      Ahhh Dunedin I spent, or rather misspent 6 years of my life down there as an adult student. Went for a Year stayed for 6, Gone now are a lot of the landmarks, Capt Cook The Gardie Bar Street Parties, and burning couches to keep warm at Carisbrook. I remember going to a Scarfi party in the middle of winter lying on our backs in the snow watching the Aurora Australis streaming over they sky in complete silence (There should have been some music) and realising how small we really are on our tiny rock. Anyway Tat, I digress, but like others Picked you for a Capital Person, and you are, welcome out, hope you win.

  24. viv k 24

    Should have been clearer, send the off shore drillers packing. I am not naive and stupid enough to think we can just stop using fossil fuels now, but unless we rapidly transition to a renewably powered society our grandkids will be toast. 350.org have done the maths and what fossil fuels we can (possibly safely) burn, should be used to make the transition. Tat, you are spot on about the job opportunities, that’s where we need to go. Peter, you say it’s all too hard for 4 reasons. Yes, we are stuck between a fossil fuel rock that is damaging the biosphere upon which we depend and an unpalatable, unpopular, difficult and extremely hard place. Where will Labour stand? Business as usual or real action?

    • weka 24.1

      Those aren’t the only two options. Another one is that Labour and the GP prepare the ground for transition. I don’t think you can get a whole country to shift suddenly into accepting the need for transition, and if NZ were ready for that we would have Green govt already. It’s a process, and from what I can see parts of Labour are ready for that. The questions are really about to what extent, how Labour handle this internally, and timeframes.

      • Peter 24.1.1

        Yep, we can provide options, the big picture transport stuff that only the State can build. I’d start with backing rail electrification and speed increases, biorefineries, potentially powered by geothermal, and some sort of mercantile exchange contract with Bolivia to obtain sufficient lithium reserves in return for something tangible that they need. Of course, with batteries I’d be focusing less on energy density than on lifespan.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Mineral Commodity Report 19 – Beryllium, Gallium, Lithium, Magnesium, Uranium and Zirconium

          New Zealand occurrence
          Lithium is present in dilute brines found in the geothermal fields of the Taupo Volcanic Zone (Fig. 2). Concentrations are typically 10-13 ppm Li, along with higher concentrations of silica, chloride, sodium and potassium. The Wairakei geothermal field alone discharges about 445 t of lithium annually in geothermal waste water, into the Waikato River.

          Just how many tonnes of lithium do we use per year and well can it be recycled?

          • Peter

            I’ve just learnt something new. Most of that lithium will be going back into the reinjection wells now, rather than the Waikato. Makes you wonder about a way to get the lithium out before it goes back down.


        • weka

          What are the speed increases?

          • Draco T Bastard

            Increasing the speed of rail which is, at present in NZ, very slow. It would be expensive and take a long time as I’m sure that the higher speeds that trains achieve elsewhere is only possible because of the wider track used than the narrow gauge used here.

      • Chooky 24.1.2

        +1….Weka and Peter

    • Peter 24.2

      No, I didn’t say it was too hard, I said it was “hard”, and unfortunately my next sentence got eaten up. What might be technically feasible is rarely socially or economically feasible. Somewhere in those overlapping Venn diagrams is a window of possibility, a window that is highly dependent on location. NZ has a bigger window than most.

      There is no way of replacing our current way of life with renewables, the energy equations don’t add up. However, NZ has the ability to invest in a renewables powered transport backbone, and it very well could build a few strategically located biorefineries to obtain some semblance of liquid fuels to power what we can’t run electrically. Chemical fuels will always be better than batteries for many applications.

      We can’t force people to change, but we can give them real options to leave their cars behind, when they choose, or the price forces them to.

  25. fender 25

    Very enlightening! and a great post too…

    As someone who has been impressed by CV I wish you the best of luck for your political ambitions. You are an asset to Labour and we here in the Otaki electorate need someone like you, please consider relocating!!!LOL…

    • Tat Loo 25.1

      lolz fender…btw I grew up in Palmy North not so far away 😉

      • thatguynz 25.1.1

        I too would like to see you in the Otaki electorate CV – it would almost be enough for me to do something I’ve never done and give my party vote to Labour ;)..

        • Tat Loo

          Muchly honoured 😎

          edit But would that mean living in Levin 😯

          • thatguynz

            Mate, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.. Keep coming down to the southern end of the electorate 🙂

    • David H 25.2

      True… I don’t even know who we have now. only hear of that bloody fool Nathan Guy

    • Varity 25.3

      if he considers relocating then invercargill is closer and at least we have an airport … unlike clutha or otaki, lol.

      • fender 25.3.1

        The Otaki electorate has an airport Varity, although it is technically in the Mana one because Kapiti Rd. is the boundary line, and it’s right on the southern boundary, it’s called Paraparaumu airport.

  26. Ad 26

    Pleased to meet you, fellow Sutchean.

    Tonnes to argue with there. But in the meantime, great to see you out in public.

    And see you at Conference.

    • Tat Loo 26.1

      Hey! Yes, and it’s going to be great arguing about more substantial issues than “when is the Budget going to be back in surplus.”

      See you in Christchurch.

  27. Kia ora Tat

    I haven’t always agreed, but I’ve read what you write (well a lot of it anyway) keep it up. Kia kaha.

  28. ghostrider888 28

    We know Brilliance when we strip across it. 😎

  29. Our people, our land and water, our collective know-how, our sovereignty, our community cohesion and our real terms of trade comprise Aotearoa’s true wealth.

    Your persons, your territories, your assumptions, your empire, your socialism, and your commerce all comprise your realm.

    Your system is corrupt, you do not speak for the people of Aotearoa or for the land.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 29.1


    • weka 29.2

      “you do not speak for the people of Aotearoa or for the land.”

      Neither do you, so what?

      • Ugly Truth 29.2.1

        So it is inappropriate for an employee of the Crown to speak of “our people”. All the Crown speaks for is its persons.

        • weka

          But he’s not an employee of the Crown as far as I know. And even if he was, read this sentence from the bottom of his post

          “I speak for and represent only myself on The Standard.”

          • Ugly Truth

            OK, in that case he’s only being presumptuous by speaking of “our people, our land and water”. Also the party that he supports has rejected the law of the land, so there is no honour in that path either.

            But to be fair dishonesty in politics is par for the course, so apart from being a card-carrying socialist he’s probably no worse than any other political wannabe.

            • Hanswurst

              One post ago, it was “speaking of”, then in the next sentence “speaking for”; now it’s suddenly “speaking of” again. Anyone can “speak of” our land and our people, and your fantasies about Mr. Loo trying to “speak for” them don’t follow from the quote you reference. When even the content of what you’re saying keeps wobbling around like that, it’s very hard to discern a point in there. So far, you seem to have generated a lot of verbiage just to say “I disagree with Mr. Loo”.

              • McFlock

                In this thread, he had me at his profound distinction between “our people” and “its persons”. 🙄

              • Mr Loo said: “our people …. our sovereignty … our community” – he’s speaking for his “people” by implying that they have some kind of sovereignty.

                The point of my fist post (29) was that Mr Loo was implying that there was some kind of honour associated with his political platform, but in fact there isn’t any, it is just the usual socialism and corruption that is so widespread in this country.

                • Hanswurst

                  “Mr Loo said: ‘our people …. our sovereignty … our community’ – he’s speaking for his “people” by implying that they have some kind of sovereignty.”

                  The people of NZ are a sovereign people in that they can make their own laws via elected officials and have their own legal and policing organs to enforce them. You can quibble about the justice of how that is conducted or how you want to define “sovereignty”, but the usage of “our sovereignty” in the post is just common parlance to refer to objective fact. It isn’t an attempt to appropriate or speak for your definition of sovereignty. For someone seemingly so keen on sophistry, you’re awfully clumsy at it.

                  “it is just the usual socialism and corruption that is so widespread in this country.”

                  I think you need to define “socialism” before you can credibly claim that it is “usual” in this country. Also, lumping it in with corruption is very much the sort of grandiose and vague generalisation that you’re pretending to be against in Mr. Loo’s post.

                  • The people of NZ are a sovereign people in that they can make their own laws via elected officials

                    Bollocks. The legislation of the current bunch on numptys is nothing more than rules for persons. They cut themselves off from the source of law a very long time ago. Sovereignty is very much connected to the capacity to make law. In NZ the sovereignty of parliament is only assumed, it is not real.

                    To illustrate this, imagine that a collection of criminals conspired to defraud the public of what was rightfully theirs, and in doing so said that they were honourable and sovereign and were making law. How would this situation be any different to what exists within the body politic today? (Please remember that the state’s ongoing injury of the natural rights of people does in fact constitute criminal behaviour)

                    • McFlock

                      They cut themselves off from the source of law a very long time ago.

                      [citation needed]

                      imagine that a collection of criminals conspired to defraud the public of what was rightfully theirs, and in doing so said that they were honourable and sovereign and were making law. How would this situation be any different to what exists within the body politic today?

                      More importantly, if it’s done with the consent and the votes of the people, how is it not lawful?

                      Please remember that the state’s ongoing injury of the natural rights of people does in fact constitute criminal behaviour

                      [citation needed]

                    • Hanswurst

                      Well, I said that you could quibble about the justice of how it was conducted. You proceeded to do so and failed to address my point at all. You are effectively taking a mainstream component of political thought in the Western World and claiming that it is the presumptuous creation of a poster on The Standard. Your continual insistence on pushing your own wheelbarrow, and apparent inability to see why it is neither relevant nor even logically connected to the discussion at hand, means that I’m done with this discussion.

                    • Followup for McFlock:

                      Re: They cut themselves off from the source of law a very long time ago.

                      They did this when they adopted their perverted version of the common law.
                      The common law in unavoidably theistic, the secular version that the state uses is an expression of the corruption of the state.

                      More importantly, if it’s done with the consent and the votes of the people, how is it not lawful?

                      Because the will of the people alone is not sufficient to make law.
                      If two people vote and consent to a crime then it is a conspiracy.
                      If two hundred people vote and consent to a crime it is still a conspiracy.
                      What is unlawful does not become lawful just because a certain number of people have agreed to it.

                      Re: Please remember that the state’s ongoing injury of the natural rights of people does in fact constitute criminal behaviour

                      Associated with the theistic nature of the common law are natural rights, as described by Blackstone. The right to life and liberty are two of these. The right to liberty in injured when the state restricts ordinary access to public places like roads.

                    • McFlock


                      When I asked for a citation, all you needed to say was “I have a magic book, so blah”.

  30. One Anonymous Knucklehead 30

    Nice one 🙂

  31. Huginn 31

    Pleased to meet you, Tat.

  32. Lloyd 32

    Tat loo I think I agree with all your points, but the concepts in them will not get through to Mr & Mrs Centre, those people who vote tory even though they would be better off in almost every way if they voted labour/green. You will have to distil your points into snappy phases with five or less words in them, then they may actually punch through our media which today only reports sound bites.

    • Tat Loo 32.1

      You’re quite right Lloyd. Depending on how ‘concrete’ vs ‘conceptual’ someone’s head is at, that’s where an appropriate pitch needs to occur.

      The snappy sound bites (Josh Lyman from the West Wing described them as ten word answers) and the even briefer political slogans (e.g. “no more taxes”, “brighter future”, etc) are crucial…but they must also do a double duty and describe a new narrative, not kowtow to the old neolib narrative.

      • karol 32.1.1

        Agree. They should index a new narrative that is developed via all kinds of platforms. And not be empty slogans like “brighter future”.

        • Tat Loo

          Yep, a real ‘360 degree’ approach to elucidating a new narrative. To use (ugh) corporate jargon.

  33. karol 33

    Welcome aboard, Tat. Excellent post. So you’ve decided to leave the Battlestar!

    Well, well, well, CV, looking at your CV (or rather election campaign bio) – who’da thought?

    Chiropractor – Masters in Pain Medicine. hmmm – I may need to book up a consultation some time in the future!

    I guess I bought you own mythology of a kept man of relative leisure.

    I agree with most of your post, especially:

    (UBI) [tick]

    a full commitment to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, as well as delivering on a comprehensive programme of civics education and public media, is crucial.

    whether or not there are ‘enough physical resources’ (e.g. water, skilled people) available to get it done.

    Only qualitative growth, e.g. improvements in: value, creativity, design and inclusiveness – will prove physically (and morally) sustainable.
    [tick – I think, although will need to see some elaboration on “morally”]

    building not-for-profit community based assets, and encouraging democratisation of the economy and of workplaces. Unions have a central and critical role to play as economic change agents, but this extends further, to the very design and governance of organisations themselves.

    This last one sounds good, though I would like to see more detail. Ditto, for the point below, especially wanting more detail on “social security employer”

    We can ill-afford the unequal social justice, mental health, and economic outcomes that we are foisting on to our young people today. To that end, a policy of full employment and training for all New Zealanders 25 years and under, with the Government serving as the ultimate social security employer, is a must.

    And I’m with Bill on what ‘strengthening of local communities’ means – ie from above or below.

    • Tat Loo 33.1

      karol hi. It really is a pleasure to ‘come out’ and make myself known on The Standard. Although a reasonable number of people around the place already knew my identity, I felt this was a necessary step and one that I knew many Standardistas would be supportive of. So thank you.

      Ahhh, yes, I’m not really married into a family with gazillions of dollars, might be nice tho 🙂

      Interesting ideas about the governance of work places can be gleaned from how Germany – a successful, advanced, industrial economy, has used ‘worker councils’ as an integral part of company boards of directors.


      Re: ‘social security employer’ this is a nicer name for ’employer of last resort’ which may have somewhat negative connotations, even though there should not be any. The aim of a social security employer might be to ensure that anyone who wants a half time or full time job has one, preferably in an appropriate field. Maybe starting at the youth end of the workforce.

      It also helps to make the minimum wage a real minimum wage. At the moment the minimum wage is only a minimum – if and when you can find work.

      And I’m with Bill on what ‘strengthening of local communities’ means – ie from above or below.

      This is worth a good discussion, yes. My mind set favours increased decentralisation and increased localised direction. IMO local communities tend to know what their issues are (and what the potential solutions may be) far better than an ‘expert’ a thousand kms away.

      • karol 33.1.1

        Thanks for the full reply. I guess if the UBI is in place, social security employer has less pressure on it. For instance, participating in community work or other valued activities.

        Decentralisation – the opposite of what’s been happening with Hide’s Auckland supercity.

      • Lanthanide 33.1.2

        I have to say, I’m very dubious of a “social security employer”, ie one that just “magics up” whatever jobs are necessary for anyone who wants a job.

        Sounds like a recipe for an awful lot of “make-work” non-productive jobs, or necessary jobs that are given to people who simply can’t or won’t make a proper go of it, thus wasting everyone’s time.

        I am, perhaps perversely, extremely in favour of a UBI however. In such a scenario, volunteer work becomes much more viable, and although the government could still actively work to extend jobs to as many as possible, there isn’t as much pressure to ensure every last person available has a job.

        • Tat Loo

          Fair points. And I certainly don’t want to hire people to ‘dig up holes and fill them in again’.

          However I suspect that there is a stack of necessary and useful work in our society which currently needs to be done, but is currently not being done.

          During the Great Depression, US gov programmes like the WPA: built national parks, built schools and hospitals, cleared farmland, built roads and railways as well as added to the nation’s arts and culture eg. funded professional theatre, artists, orchestras, bands, writers, poets, journalism and documentaries.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Yep, there’s a hell of a lot that can be done and should be done but isn’t being done due to the commercial imperative of capitalism.

        • Peter

          I start from the premise of the social and financial cost of unemployment. An unemployed person, or an unemployed family is likely to have incurred direct costs against the taxpayer at all of the following agencies:

          MSD, ACC, MoH/DHBs,Education, Police, Corrections, and quite possibly more. Add that cost up (and no one does, because it’s siloed), and it’ll wind up being cheaper to make some valuable work for those people.

          • Tat Loo

            Not to mention massive other costs to society and persons including increased risks over time of: reduction in self esteem, deterioration of work ethic and personal care, increasing unemployability after 6 or 12 months, depression or anxiety, worsened stress and strains on family and relationships (including increased chances of divorce), poverty (which has many intergenerational impacts), and even heightened probability of death.

  34. Pete 34

    As a fellow Dunedin North person, I’m pleased you’re serving my community in this way. All the best for conference.

  35. Tat Loo 35

    Cheers Pete – you are a consistent voice of considered moderation. Well, usually 🙂

  36. Craig Glen Eden 36

    All those philosophical talks were not waisted and you rose to my chalenge, I always knew you had it in ya. Given you are down South these days I shall have to say good on ya mate!

    Nice work Tatman.

  37. King Kong 37

    Interesting that you were standing in elections but were still keeping an anonymous (or whatever the acceptable terminology is on the Standard, Psuedononymous? can’t remember am a bit pissed) user profile on here. Surely it is only fair for those voting to have a chance to see what a candidate really stands for. Espeically consider this is the most public of the left leaning online forums.

    It is hard not to think that this was hidden from people because it would make them less likely to vote for you.

    Or it could be shame. Perhaps it wasn’t such a great idea to repeatedly state that you wanted to line half of them (though some would argue only 1%) up against a wall and shoot them.

    • Tat Loo 37.1

      Hey KK. Great to see you 🙂

    • Rogue Trooper 37.2

      “Pseudononymous?” – a very squeaky dinosaur?

    • felix 37.3

      Or, and this might be a stretch for your monkey brain, maybe it’s none of your fucking business how and when people choose to present themselves online.

    • ScottGN 37.4

      Would have made me more likely to vote for him, though as it turns out I did anyway since I gave 2 ticks for Labour in Clutha/Southland at the last election.

    • QoT 37.5

      This argument amuses me, same as it does for the anti-Brown types who demand voters have the right to know every detail of his penis’ history.

      The fact is, you only know that there’s something to know because it’s come out. If you want to argue that Tat had a moral duty to tell people every detail of his online interactions, you should demand the same of his opponent, Bill English (or in Brown’s case, John Palino) – but you don’t, because you don’t know that there’s anything to know.

      There’s probably plenty in every political candidate’s past which might influence voters. Do they do the dishes after dinner when they visit their mum? How do they decide which buskers to give spare change to? Can they tie their own shoes?

      It is simply impossible for us to ever have every single detail which might be relevant to our decision-making. That’s why we already have things like pecuniary registers and conflict-of-interest declarations to make sure the details which are actually relevant to their governing of us are covered.

      • King Kong 37.5.1

        Nice try sweat heart. I never mentioned who he is fucking or anything to do with his private life.

        This is pure and simple about “representing” your politics. Knowing what CV wrote on here and reading his bio on votedunedin, it is almost fucking fraudulent.

        Gave me a good laugh though and I bet there are a few red faces from those who comment on the Standard that bought first class tickets on Labour’s “yellow peril” train earlier in the year. Who knew their mate CV was one of them.

        • Tat Loo

          Knowing what CV wrote on here and reading his bio on votedunedin, it is almost fucking fraudulent.

          Almost fucking fraudulent”? Shit that’s a lucky miss then, ain’t it?

          If you have a problem with a statement that I’ve made as CV, try and find some crumbs from within the relevant 3 month campaign period eh?

          • King Kong

            I am sure Phillip Field didn’t have any slaves working on his house during the electoral period as well.

            • fender

              “almost fucking fraudulent”

              lol, jungle law is it monkey boy? You’re a fraud sneaking in with the humans..

              • King Kong

                Lets be fair, Any statement that didn’t include “I support the dismantling of the current capitalist system and replacing it with it with a socialist utopia that me, and my internet buddies, have thoroughly, beaten off to” is pretty dishonest.

        • felix

          “I bet there are a few red faces from those who comment on the Standard that bought first class tickets on Labour’s “yellow peril” train earlier in the year.”

          Labour’s yellow peril train? You mean the radical idea that we shouldn’t sell our country to people who don’t live here?

          Yeah there were a few people here who took that as an excuse to let their racist flags fly. That would be you King Kong, along with chris73, big bruv, Gosman and a couple of other morans.

          I didn’t see any lefties on your racist train. Of course if I’m wrong you could always post a link to prove it.

          But I’m not, and you can’t, so you won’t.

          • King Kong

            Fuck you’re a nob. Luckily I have seen you pull this nonsense too many times.

            It goes like this. I shame you in public by showing you a black and white example of what I am talking about and then you use some childish semantic argument that goes on for a ridiculous period that only a middle aged man who lives with their Mum has the time and interest in pursuing.

            No thanks.

            • felix

              That’s quite a fantasy life you’ve got going on there monkey. The truth is you’ve never backed up your bullshit and you won’t do it this time because you can’t.

              Find me one – ONE – single example of anyone from the left on this site supporting any policy of excluding Chinese people from NZ and I’ll not only apologise, I’ll ban myself from this site for a month.

              • King Kong

                So “yellow peril” has already magically become “excluding Chinese people from NZ”.

                Sadly, I am pretty sure that you don’t actually realise you are doing it.

              • The Al1en

                What about telling English people to fu*k off back to their own contry?
                Does that count, even if they’re not Chinese?

                • King Kong

                  I Think you will find that it all comes under the banner of xenophobia

                • The Al1en

                  Nah, don’t worry cat man, I wouldn’t want you to go without posting for a month, not on my behalf. You don’t even have to say sorry.
                  You carry on sticking it to the monkey boy. 😉

                • felix

                  “What about telling English people to fu*k off back to their own contry?”

                  What about it?

                  • The Al1en

                    Just asking for clarification, ’cause we both know this isn’t strictly true. So before I shoot off to bed, should I do the search for the link or will you? 😆

                    “I didn’t see any lefties on your racist train..”

                    Ps. I’m not going to get the link, just as long as we both know I could.
                    Besides, it’s about ‘yellow peril’ and not ‘any old iron’, right?

                    • felix

                      Did someone tell English people to fuck off because they’re English?

                      Or did someone tell you to fuck off because you’re a tool?

                    • The Al1en

                      “Did someone tell English people to fuck off because they’re English?

                      Or did someone tell you to fuck off because you’re a tool?”

                      Kin ‘el mate, don’t make kong look good or nothing, will you?

                      “It goes like this. I shame you in public by showing you a black and white example of what I am talking about and then you use some childish semantic argument that goes on for a ridiculous period that only a middle aged man who lives with their Mum has the time and interest in pursuing.”

                      Night, cat man. 😉

                    • fender

                      All that and still no link.

                      Is it an English tool we’re looking for….

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      not a Stan Lee?

                    • felix

                      Well fender, the unusual rotational pattern of Planet Fuckjob causes some strange and confusing temporal distortions.

                      For example, people there have all day and night to whine about being too busy to find a link.

                    • fender

                      BSW or BSF imperial King Dick not Stanley here

                    • fender

                      KK tried to link but discovered the branch was rotten and he fell to the ground.

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      ahhh fender, Very Whitworthy

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      ahhh fender, Very worthy to Whit and open-ended 😀

        • travellerev

          Sweat heart? Ummm

        • QoT

          Given that in the earlier replies to this comment it’s been amply demonstrated that you’re talking absolute shit and can’t back up your statements, I shall merely add: don’t call me “sweetheart” (or any misspelled variation thereof) you condescending jackass.

    • Draco T Bastard 37.6

      Perhaps it wasn’t such a great idea to repeatedly state that you wanted to line half of them (though some would argue only 1%) up against a wall and shoot them.

      [citation needed]

      • TheContrarian 37.6.1

        Lynn did talk about shooting climate change deniers. Not sure about CV though

        Maori Party to help Nats kill carbon emissions cap

        • lprent

          It is something that I am pretty sure is going to happen.Especially the outright liars like Wishart who have attempted to study the field enough. The basic science is simple enough.

          I always wonder what motivates such people to try to condeem future generations to the type of world that he and others are helping to create. But I hope he lives long enough to see the consequences.

      • King Kong 37.6.2

        The man has written about three million comments on here so I can’t be fucked looking however I am sure Tat will put his hand up to it.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Not good enough. You made an accusation now back it up or apologise.

        • felix

          That’d make it easier to find examples, not harder. Silly monkey.

          It’s a serious accusation. Back it up.

          • King Kong

            Look, Tat is all over this vanity post so why can’t he put you straight.

            Here is the first one that came up

            Open mike 23/08/2013

            • felix

              Rather that look at that link, perhaps I should just take your word for it that it says something about wanting to shoot half the voters in NZ.

              That is what we’re talking about, right?

              • King Kong

                And so it, as I refer to above,begins.

                I would like to tell you that you could do better than that, but you have proven time and time again that you can’t.

                You have made the second highest amount of comments in history on the Standard (I am lead to believe) but have said the least.

                • felix

                  Well either you’re accusing CV of saying he wants to shoot half the voters of NZ or you’re not.

                  Doesn’t bother me either way, but when you change your mind about making that sort of accusation it’s customary to apologise.

                • KK, How about you keep to these 10 very simple rules of rational debate:

                  1. Thou shall not attack a person’s character but the argument itself. (“Ad hominem”)

                  2. Thou shall not misrepresent or exaggerate a person’s argument in order to make it easier to attack. (“Straw Man Fallacy)

                  3. Thou shall not use small numbers to represent the whole. (“Hasty Generalization”)

                  4. Thou shall not argue thy position by assuming one of its premises is true. (“Begging the Question”)

                  5. Thou shall not claim that because something occurred before, it must be the cause. (“Post Hoc/False Claim”)

                  6. Thou shall not reduce the argument down to two possibilities. (“Fake Dichotomy”)

                  7. Thou shall not argue that because of our ignorance that the claim must be true or false. (“Ad Ignorantiam”)

                  8. Thou shall not lay the burden of proof onto him who is questioning the claim. (“Burden of Proof Reversal”)

                  9. Thou shall not assume “this” follows “that” when “it” has no logical connection. (“Non Sequitor”)

                  10. Thou shall not claim that because a premises is popular, therefore, it must be true. (“Bandwagon Fallacy”)

                  I reckon you broke half of those already in just this one thread.

                  [lprent: You missed the important one. 0. Don’t piss off the sysop. (“Really just common sense”) ]


              • karol

                Actually, it warns that the future security state, taken to its logical conclusion, are likely to put journalists up against the wall:

                The fucking journalists are going to be the ones first up against the wall when all this spying security state stuff comes to pass…you would think that some of them would have enough self preservation instincts left to push for more democracy, not less.

                ie warning journalists that this may be their fate under a total (digitised) surveillance state, if they fail to support democracy within the MSM.

                KK comprehension fail.

                Edit: sorry, should have read on. McFlock already said that.

            • McFlock


              The fucking journalists are going to be the ones first up against the wall when all this spying security state stuff comes to pass…you would think that some of them would have enough self preservation instincts left to push for more democracy, not less.

              with the allegation:

              Perhaps it wasn’t such a great idea to repeatedly state that you wanted to line half of them (though some would argue only 1%) up against a wall and shoot them.

              Reading comprehension fail: truly, it was literacy that killed the beast….

              • felix

                And that, McFlock – comparing two statements with different meanings – is what King Kong calls “some childish semantic argument”.

                The supreme irony being that he doesn’t seem to know what “semantic” means. 😉

                • fender

                  Did KK think CV was going to do the journalists in…..what a banana brain…

                • McFlock

                  well, the word sometimes makes me giggle, too.

                  So when he claims that one statement with a precise meaning is an example of another statement with a very different meaning, we’re not allowed to use the fundamental contradiction to demonstrate that he’s full of crap?

                  Well played, monkey boy, well played.

              • fender

                Look here’s The Wall……enjoy!

              • McFlock

                Lol – of those, one lacks “should”, one refers to an “outfit”[organisation], and one he was called on (by me) and he gave an explanation that the expression as he used it referred to a time-out punishment for kids that play silly buggers. Plausible, given the silly bugger he was arguing with at the time.

                Still no evidence for “you wanted to line half of them (though some would argue only 1%) up against a wall and shoot them.” But at least slightly less absurd than your previous “example”, monkeyboy.

        • miravox

          <a href="/?s=Colonial+Viper+%2B+shoot&isopen=none&search_posts=true&search_comments=true&search_sortby=date"At your service

          Hi Tat – nice to meet you like this. I’m sure I’ll enjoy reading learning, agreeing and sometimes disagreeing with you as much as I did with CV. Oh and I and my previous alter-ego here in Europe are happy you’ve picked up on the idea of worker’s councils.

          I also reckon point 8 is pretty much in train if point 2 is sorted out, especially in relation to civics education. Pollies do what their voters want and there is a huge electorate of young people out there who are not letting them know at the ballot box, or like many aspirational people, are voting against their own interests but don’t know it.

  38. r0b 38

    Well – I’m late to this party (big day in the garden) – but not too late to add my congratulations! Bravo on coming out, and glad to have you (a fellow Dunedin Norther) aboard. Must say – I thought this day would come…

  39. Ennui 39

    Sort of dozy. Tired from house painting and gardening I read the column…hmm sounds like a CV formula methinks, not having to bothered reading the Viper bit…dumb arse Ennui strikes again. Hello Tat, yes the direction you sketch out is on the same page as me. The Dunedin bit…putting two and two together does that account for the Curran battle?

  40. Saarbo 40

    Pleased to meet you Tat.

    I enjoyed your vision, one particular area that I am a big supporter of is “building not-for-profit community based assets”, I think this is an area that is critical in returning our nation back to the egalitarian little country it used to be. We recently moved to a small town that has amazing not-for-profit community assets and fantastic clubs that people from all incomes and races mix. I dont think it is any coincidence that this town also has zero unemployment.

    I presume that you will continue to contribute comments to the standard, I hope so.


    • Tat Loo 40.1

      And I’m pleased to meet you, Saarbo.

      Yes will definitely keep commenting on The Standard. Might have to watch my language a tiny bit more from now on tho, having to be respectable and all that 🙂

      • Varity 40.1.1

        that’s what i don’t like about this. CV could shoot from the hip yet you have to be (and are being) “respectable and all that”. it’s like you’re two different people and it’s difficult to reconcile you as one.

        this isn’t a bitch at you personally … it’s just … is CV gone now? cuz i’ll miss him.

        • Tat Loo

          Cheers, Varity. Not being able to do the same classic CV sharpshooting is a wee bit annoying, admittedly. But it’s sort of a sacrifice which is required: strident activists make bad politicians, and politicians are typically crappy at being effective activists.

          Anyways, I just have to learn to make the same required points with a tad more diplomacy. Not that much more, mind you 🙂

          • Varity

            yea it would suck to have to moderate yourself all the time but it’s cool to have a candidate among us.

            are there any others here? left or right? i wonder if your confession and the lovely welcome you’ve received will bring others out?

  41. Tautoko Viper 41

    Thanks for all your thought and effort into helping to make NZ a better place for all.
    The Labour Conference should be rather different this year!

  42. Descendant Of Sssmith 42

    Hmmm I’ve got quite used to the sibilant sounds of Sssssmith.

    I’ll leave it there for both the recognition of your past alter-ego and for history + posterity.

    I’d still like to see a reversion to an eight hour working day and a forty hour working week + time and a half in order to both give more leisure time and create more employment by sharing the work around more.

    Shutting up shop on Sunday to create more community leisure time would be good as well and would have good health benefits as more people engaged in sport etc.

    I have no doubt that your good reputation on here will hold you in good stead – thanks for all your previous posts and comments. I for one have enjoyed and respected them.

  43. Doug Mackie 43

    I live in Dunedin, come here often but comment seldom. I vote (if I must use a binary classification) ‘left’. (Labour is usually insufficiently so for me but better than some alternatives). However, I ranked you 29/35; I did this because I am a scientist. I don’t want to start a flame war (or I’d use a pseudonym), but two words: Simon Singh.

    For me (and many, if not most, scientists) chiropractic is woo. This matters because I want my putative representatives to be beholding to evidenced based decisions; If someone pitches woo in one arena then I infer their ability to make decisions in another arena is compromised. (Not to worry though, I ranked you above a climate change denier and above Hilary).

    • Tat Loo 43.1

      Hi Doug. I’m glad you put me in up above Ms Calvert, thank you 🙂

      For me (and many, if not most, scientists) chiropractic is woo. This matters because I want my putative representatives to be beholding to evidenced based decisions; If someone pitches woo in one arena then I infer their ability to make decisions in another arena is compromised.

      You can be certain that the orthodox view is not the one that I will always be a proponent of (no problem there as by definition there are already many proponents backing the orthodox view and do we really need another saying the same thing).

      Having said that, I am not a scientist by primary training, I am a manufacturing systems engineer. The approach to problem solving that a scientist takes, and a systems engineer takes is necessarily different due to many professional factors. My chiropractic background adds a twist which some proponents of science still refuse to recognise: that we are surrounded by intelligent, complex adaptive systems which are not mechanistically reducible.

      This matters because I want my putative representatives to be beholding to evidenced based decisions; If someone pitches woo in one arena then I infer their ability to make decisions in another arena is compromised.

      For most real world decisions which are required, the evidence available is usually somewhat incomplete, circumstantial or inferential. From my perspective, you want elected representatives who can deal with such evidence deficient or information deficient scenarios effectively.

      • weka 43.1.1


        Maybe the tradeoff for losing CV’s posting style is that you get to comment in context now. I like this.

        • Tat Loo

          yep, I have to step up to a more serious level of political response and real world problem solving now. While staying down to earth and in touch with the basics. It’s gonna be both exciting and challenging.

        • karol

          Yep. And I am taken a little (pleasantly) by surprise by the chiropractic, and other naturalistic/wholistic health interests of Tat. I always saw CV’s economic and business approaches. Adds another and interesting context to his perspectives.

  44. greywarbler 44

    You have done much via the keyboard and the words were good to read. Sort of like a fresh Dunedin gale has blown through and swept away the dust and old newspapers. A magnum opus. We should be opening a magnum of bubbly in about a year’s time if we keep the pace up.

    Don’t know if you read A Tradesman’s comment late yesterday. But the attitude in it that Labour Party workers should come and talk to the wage workers and low income people to ask them what they want, is one of the barriers to Labour getting in. It expresses a sort of welfare attitude to politics and democracy. The workers have it done for them, they don’t ‘own’ it and state what they want and get enthused about joining the fighting team. Break though this peculiar bubble separating them from supporting democracy and their own vision of it, and there will be hundreds of thousands more voting Labour from that group alone.

  45. Steve 45

    Great post Tat. Always enjoyed your incisive and sometimes wickedly ascerbic posts as CV.

    Other than gender, I have a huge disconnect between the real and my “imagined” CV. Guess that’s all part of the fun of the blogosphere.

    • Tat Loo 45.1

      Thanks a lot Steve. Yes sometimes reading the novel is much better because the film so often ruins what you were sure it was like!

    • miravox 45.2

      “wickedly ascerbic posts as CV”

      Yeah, I’m still struggling to reconcile that gentle-looking expression in Tat’s pic with those pull no punches comments of Colonial Viper.

  46. chris73 46

    I won’t say I’ve agreed with all your posts but I did find the arguments you put up (mostly) a cut above the rest but I’m just curious as to why you’re revealing yourself now?

    • Tat Loo 46.1

      Hey c73, mainly because Labour Conference is just around the corner and I wanted to stake some clear and different policy ideas out there and hence stir the pot a little.

      • chris73 46.1.1

        So you’ll be looking at Dunedin South? I hear they have a bit of a loose cannon down there…

    • Varity 46.2

      funny – for a righty i find the way you express and handle yourself a cut (or three) above your mates too. you sure you aren’t really a suppressed lefty?

      and since we’re all in confession mode here – we know each other chris. we’ve even met once and got on fine. unlike tat though i can’t say my name cuz that dodo-head brent/prent banned me. 🙁

      notice though you plagiarized one of my quips from WO yesterday. <<<< (that's a hint, not a dig)

      [lprent: and you hadn’t drawn my attention until now. I haven’t recognized your behavior, and can’t be bothered tracking down who you are likely to be. Be interesting to see if you can maintain a behavior pattern that doesn’t draw my eye. Most of the time people cannot reform themselves. Mind you, this comment radiates stupidity. ]

      • chris73 46.2.1

        Its a small world all right…and I take the view of Oscar Wilde when it comes to using other peoples work 🙂

  47. Not a PS Staffer 47

    Lovely to have you here under any name Oh Viperous one.

    You win the the Claire Curran Memorial Trophy for Debuts!

  48. geoff 48

    Hey Hey Hey! This is classic! Go Tat Loo/CV, congrats mate!

    • Tat Loo 48.1

      Hey dude, I know, I had so much fun writing this and getting it posted up. Just being an irrelevant blogger type with no effect in the real world 🙂

  49. BLiP 49

    Hi Tat

    I see various comrades have already addressed the glaring holes in your “manifesto” so I shall save my squabbles with you over them for another day. In the meantime, thank you for entering the political arena. Unlike some, I don’t see it as filled with “dirty, disgusting, and despicable people at all levels” but, because there are “dirty disgusting and despicable people” working its fringes, it takes a sturdy soul to bear its machinations. ‘Onya, mate. All the best.

  50. vto 50

    Good for you Tat Loo.

    Good sound ideas. Good strength to punch them out there. Good facts and arguments to back them up. Good kiwi minds ready to soak them up as you say.

    And always good to put a face to the name.

    Was listening to the wireless last week and there was a child expert being interviewed. This person reckoned that the best thing you can give / teach your child to ensure success was self-control. I have always thought one could achieve most anything with discipline. Discipline and self-control are pretty similar. You seem to have that self-control and discipline – you will go far. Good luck fulla.

  51. Excuse me but are you the Colonial viper of yore? (Blond me you have to spell it out)

    • Tat Loo 51.1

      Yep sure am! No cylon impersonator here…

      • travellerev 51.1.1

        Pleased to meet you Tat. That’s one for the books! :o:

      • travellerev 51.1.2

        By the way I take issue with point four on your list. Contrary to popular belief the Reserve bank is not beholden to the NZ government or the people of New Zealand.

        The current Reserve Bank governor is Graeme Wheeler who was the number two under Wolfowitz world bank and a financial manager in Washington.

        He refuses to give press conferences and only gives information via editorials and newspaper articles unlike Bollard which hardly gives me faith in the transparency of “our” reserve bank. Not only that but the Reserve Bank of NZ is one of the few Reserve banks who will not give any information about how much money they have created and with every reserve bank printing money like there is no tomorrow this seems quaint to say the least and my suspicion is that they to are forced to partake in the fiat currency race to the bottom making their claim of being beholden to New Zealand unbelievable to say the least! But then the Federal Reserve bank of New York also claimed to be “Federal”until a judge based on evidence said that this was utter bullshit!

        According to their site they are beholden to the “Crown” which can mean any of the following: The queen of England or the Banking capital the crown of London. Even the NZ government is beholden to the crown and when it comes down to it has to bow to the legal adviser to the Crown being the Attorney General.

        Although they don’t really want you to see it that way but if I were to apply for NZ citizen ship I would have to swear allegiance to the Queen of England. Hardly the state of post colonial independence the average Kiwi, still officially the subjects of the queen of England, seems to think they have.

        • Tat Loo

          Ahhh I didn’t know that about Wheeler’s background. All I know is that his monetary outlook seems far drier and more orthodox than I would have hoped for.

          Also just because he worked at the senior levels of the world bank it doesn’t have to mean that he is knowledgeable about the process of money creation and open market operations. Although he may well be.

  52. Olwyn 52

    Tat Loo, under the CV name, you said this in response to The Black Rod’s post: “In this environment of real economy contraction, the middle classes have been staying afloat by pushing down opportunities available to the working classes and the under classes. Just as the 1% is determined to stay afloat by pushing down the middle classes.”

    This encapsulates the cycle that Labour must first and foremost set out to break. It is like a short term crisis measure that has become a long term default, which can only end in tears all round if we cannot find ways of bringing abut a change of social and economic focus.

    • Tat Loo 52.1

      Correct. What central banks and governments have done all around the world is “kick the can down the road” with austerity and money creation, in anticipation that economic growth was going to come back in a couple of years and save everyone. Unfortunately, they have missed what has become a secular (i.e. not a cyclical) long term downturn.

      And now we are all running out of road for the can to be kicked further down.

  53. tricledrown 53

    CV very surprised and impressed .

  54. vto 54

    All this talk up and down above about how the utterances of CV equal the real life person of Mr Tat Loo is just hogwash. Isn’t it? I mean, the utterances that fall out of the vto pen do not mirror the real life actualities of the writer. Is this not one of the reasons we have pseudothingys? So that we may post things which are designed for purposes other than reflecting the life and exact thoughts of the writer? Is this not what many writers do?

    • Tat Loo 54.1

      Ahhhhh, questions of existentialism 🙂

    • Rogue Trooper 54.2

      couldn’t possibly say on the grounds of self-incrimination 😀

    • Draco T Bastard 54.3

    • QoT 54.4

      Tricky question, vto. Some people who’ve met me in meatspace think I’m far nicer than QoT, others think QoT is me turned up to 11.

      My theory is that unless a handle is a sockpuppet deliberately created to carry out some kind of social experiment, it probably reflects an aspect of the writer’s personality. But since none of us are exactly the same person to our family, friends, lovers, coworkers, bosses, taxi drivers or checkout operators anyway, it doesn’t bother me.

      • vto 54.4.1

        Yes you’re right in that there is an aspect of the writer in posts. I find though that points tend to get exaggerated in either direction online and also it seem my manner of writing comes out horribly harder than the thoughts – sometimes I later read back on what has been written and shrink in horror, always way past the edit deadline…

        Never mind. Hence the pseudo thingy is good because it allows a freedom in posting and in views that a communication in person would never achieve. The limits in online blog communication highlight aspects of discussion in beneficial ways by deleting all the personal paraphernalia and allowing a clear point to be made.

        That is why I write notes to my other two halfs…

  55. higherstandard 55

    Ha… just goes to show how often the internal voice and visual imagination gets things wrong and why face to face communication beats blogs hands down, good on you Tat.

  56. Polish Pride 56

    Hi Tat bit of a late comer to the thread and probably the last thing I expected to come across.
    I really like what you stand for. Its not a Resource Based Economy but its definitely a number of steps in the right direction.
    I wish you all the best and know that from having dealt with you on here that you’ll be a force to be reckoned with. My view from what I’ve seen on here and the politicians I have dealt with is that you will be someone to watch going forward. You’re sharper than the lot of them. I wish you all the best.

    • Tat Loo 56.1

      Polish Pride – I’m hoping to be part of a really strong team next year. Thanks for your good wishes mate. The resources crunch is coming and the question is, will we be ready in time.

  57. veutoviper 57

    Tat – or CV – I read your post last night and went WOW! My jaw dropped – and then lit up with a great smile which remains on my face many hours later.

    Both the content of the post itself – and your finally outing yourself – just reinforced the feelings of hope etc that I have had since Cunliffe finally became Leader of Labour. With people like you and him, there is light at the end of the tunnel, but still a lot of work to do. I joined the LP late last year but had been reconsidering that decision, but now I am contemplating actually getting involved at ground level.

    Good on you, Mr Loo! It is only months ago since the CC actions that led to the Viper movement; but the fact that you now feel able to reveal your true identity speaks volumes for the shift that has been occurring in recent weeks. From time to time I have contemplated reverting to my previous pseudonym, but had – and have – decided to retain my present one as a reminder of the circumstances that led to the change. Lest we forget….

    While you did not get in in the Dunedin local elections, I note that you got more votes that PG. But I would rather see you running in the general election and using your skills and thinking at a national level anyway. Sorry, as a Wellingtonian, I don’t get to vote for you, but do know a few people in Dunedin who will be recipients of “my guidance”.

    Finally, your reference to Bill Sutch and his vision in your post brought back many memories for me as Sutch was a wonderful man who I had a lot of contact with in my childhood and teens – and still admire to this day for his vision and true dedication to a NZ for all NZers.

    • Tat Loo 57.1

      Thank you for putting your thoughts down, they mean a lot. Yep i am still grinning crazily too! TBH I wouldn’t be excited about sticking my head over the parapets like this if it wasn’t for the ambitious agenda that Labour now has in front of it, and with Cunliffe leading. Being part of a light blue/pale pink Labour Party, for instance, would be pointless. And, yes, things have certainly shifted on from then, LAB/GR at 49.5% not the least of them.

    • Tiger Mountain 57.2

      Yes if you don’t know about Bill Sutch you don’t know much about NZ political history. There were public intellectuals in our past that assisted significant societal progress, which is why the neo liberals always shrink the states role apart from that of the state forces. They grab the ‘loot’ for themselves not to share.

      The social democrats could have gone even further in New Zealand imo if not for the common strategic fault of the quite influential (until the mid 80s) Marxist groups and parties who viewed social democracy solely as a class enemy rather than “work with and struggle against”. If younger readers doubt this do your research. Prime Minister Muldoon was moved to publicly name via NZSIS information 32 alleged SUP (Socialist Unity Party) members along with NZCP and WCL members in relation to trade union activity and ’81 tour activists.

      Good on you Viper it is definitely time for people to come out as the nats go down in a shower of their own shit and Labour members are taking back control of their party. Many kiwis know the impact of 90 day fire at will, wage drops when a new boss takes over, dependent contracting etc. Leadership is required.

  58. pollywog 58

    Mad props Tat.

    Been toying with the idea of coming out myself and probably will as soon as I get around to joining the Labour party.

    Though the pseudonymous freedom to spew random bile on nutjobs still appeals.

    • Tat Loo 58.1

      Pollywog in Labour?! Awesomesauce!!!

      “Though the pseudonymous freedom to spew random bile on nutjobs still appeals.”

      Yep know exactly what you mean but there’s always time later on for getting back into it 🙂

    • Rogue Trooper 58.2

      pull those strings

    • lprent 58.3

      Though the pseudonymous freedom to spew random bile on nutjobs still appeals.

      I do it all the time myself. The trick is to never be in a position where they can do effective to you in the “real world” with jobs or whatever. Fortunately I am, and I really don’t mind tearing into people in the “real world” as well if I think that is required.

      • McFlock 58.3.1


        My job’s a wee bit sensitive to PR, so really I’d probably have to jump or be pushed if some of my more picturesque opinions were distributed, for fear of losing a catastrophic number of clients (although one or two might approve, too). Although I am free with much the same opinions and language at the pub.

        Funnily enough, I don’t get into as many barroom confrontations as one might expect. 🙂

  59. Tracey 59


    now I understand one of the reasons you want a lower moral bar on local and central reps behaviour… you are obviously a man to party with. 😉

    Thanks in advance for taking up alot of rwnj time crawling back over every cv post ever made.

    best of luck.

    • Tat Loo 59.1

      Hi Tracey! Ahhh the rumour mill lol. Nb did you hear Michelle Boag’s advice for the future Len Browns of politics: find a married woman with a rich husband, and who therefore cannot afford to let the secret out. On no account choose a much younger woman with nothing to lose!!!!!

      The things you find in the National Party candidate manual eh.

  60. MrSmith 60

    Welcome to the real world Tat Loo and good luck.

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  63. Have you ever considered writing an ebook or guest authoring on other blogs?
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    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    7 days ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    7 days ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    1 week ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    1 week ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    1 week ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • 2018 – Submission to the NZ Government Tax Working Group
    Read our submission here ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Guardian: Poll shows DISASTER for Corbyn and the End of Times
    The Guardian - ever eager to forewarn of doom and disaster on the left - are leading with a new poll from Opinium, which puts the Conservatives 15% clear of Labour.Con 38% +2Lab 23% -1Lib Dem 15% -5Brexit 12% +1Green 4% +2This isn't good news, and it would be very ...
    1 week ago
  • How prostitution became the world’s most modern profession
    Being and Being Bought (Spinifex Press, 2013) by Kajsa Ekis Ekman  A synopsis and commentary of Chapters 1-2 by Daphna Whitmore Ekman, a Swedish journalist and critic, brings together a Marxist and feminist analysis of prostitution and surrogacy in this groundbreaking book She opens the discussion with a definition of ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Clever legal fellow on Scottish challenge to Brexit
    I make no claims to having much legal knowledge,  so I defer to those trained in this area.I am very much enjoying this twitter stream from m'learned friend in Edinburgh, deciphering the legal arguments around the Scottish court challenge to Boris Johnson, based on the charmingly obscure principle of Nobile ...
    2 weeks ago
  • An Open Letter From Closed Minds.
    Ivory Folly? The University of Auckland’s Vice-Chancellor, Professor Stuart McCutcheon, upheld the right of the radical nationalist group, Action Zealandia to exercise their freedom of speech – not matter how distasteful that speech might be. A wiser community of students and scholars would have nodded their agreement and moved on. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Extinction Rebellion members want to “eat babies”
    If you are not convinced terrorist Organisation ‘Extinction Rebellion’ is very, very dangerous – watch this video at one of their recent meetings. Not only is this obviously mentally ill Woman begging the other terrorists to promote killing and “eating” babies and children, if you watch carefully other members nod ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    2 weeks ago
  • The government needs to tell people about the OIA
    The Ombudsman has been surveying people about their knowledge of the OIA and the right to information. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that widespread:The Chief Ombudsman says too many New Zealanders were in the dark over their right to access official information. Peter Boshier said an independent survey released yesterday on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Join the rebellion
    In the wake of last Friday's climate strike, Peter McKenzie had an article in The Spinoff about protest strategies. The school strike movement is "polite" and cooperates with those in power because that's its kaupapa - its led by schoolkids who understandably don't want to risk arrest. But there's more ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Jermey Corbyn, I don’t like GNU (sorry)
    So, the latest ruminations on the gnews from Westminster (Again, sorry; I'll stop making that pun right now).  This follows on from, and likely repeats bits of, my last post, on the suggestion that a Government of National Unity (GNU) should be set up and then oversee a referendum before ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • About time
    New Zealand likes to think of itself as not a racist country (despite being founded on the racist dispossession and subjugation of Maori). But for years, we've had a racist refugee policy, which basicly excludes refugees from Africa and the Middle East unless they already have relatives here. Now, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Legal Beagle: Vexation, or Something Too Long for Twitter
    Several people have asked me whether a particular repeat litigant could be declared a vexatious litigant, in light of their recent decision to appeal an adverse High Court ruling. My nascent tweet thread was getting ridiculously long, so it became this blog post instead.The short answer is: no. The particular ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Zealandia’s Lost Boys.
    Appealing To The Past: Action Zealandia, like so many of the organisations springing up on the far-Right, across what they call the “Anglosphere”, is born out of the profound confusion over what a man is supposed to be in the twenty-first century and, more importantly, what he is supposed to do.THE STATUE OF ...
    2 weeks ago
  • British trade union and political activists defend women’s right to speak, organise
      The attempts of anti-democratic transactivists to (often violently) disrupt women’s rights organising is largely ignored by those sections of the left most prone to misogyny and authoritarianism in New Zealand.  In Britain, however, scores of trade union and left activists added their names to a letter in July, defending ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Turning their back on justice
    The Justice Committee has reported back on the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill. The Bill would establish an independent, quasi-judicial body to investigate and review potential miscarriages of justice, and refer them back to the Court of appeal if required. It would be a vital backstop to our judiciary, help ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Further details of Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall visit to New Zealand
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed further details on the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall’s visit to New Zealand next month. Their Royal Highnesses will visit New Zealand from 17-23 November – their third joint visit to New Zealand and first in four years. They arrive in Auckland ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • O’Connor in Thailand to push for RCEP deal
    Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth and Minister of Agriculture, Damien O’Connor, heads to Thailand today to attend the final Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) Ministerial meeting, as negotiations enter their final stages. “The RCEP Agreement would anchor New Zealand in a regional agreement that covers 16 countries, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Young Pacific people can access earning and learning opportunities in Hawke’s Bay, Otago and South...
    Pacific young people living in the Hawke’s Bay, Southland and Otago regions will have access to support services that have proved successful in helping young people find new earning and learning opportunities. “Tupu Aotearoa is about changing Pacific young peoples’ lives. Our young people are talented, they are smart, they ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Protecting wellbeing – ACC HQSC Trauma Forum
    Introduction As the Minister for ACC I thank you all for the work that you do supporting New Zealanders in their literally most vulnerable moments. From those who hold people’s lives in their hands, to the people who research technique, technology and trends, your work is highly valued. A special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • NZ economy in good shape – notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch
    Notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch – Wednesday 9 October 2019 Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • World Mental Health Day a reminder of the importance of mental health work
    Minister of Health Dr David Clark and Associate Minister of Health Peeni Henare say this year’s World Mental Health Day theme is a reminder of why the Government’s work on mental health is so important. “This year the World Federation for Mental Health has made suicide prevention the main theme ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Cultural Ministers Meeting
    Associate Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni will represent the government at Australia’s Meeting of Cultural Ministers in Adelaide this week. “This year’s meeting is special because New Zealand is expected to become an International Member of the Meeting of Cultural Ministers at this Australian forum,” Carmel Sepuloni said. “The meeting is an opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 608 claims resolved by GCCRS in first year
    The Greater Christchurch Claims Resolution Service has resolved 608 insurance and EQC claims in its first year in operation, Minister Megan Woods has announced. The government service, which celebrates its first birthday today, provides a one stop shop to help Cantabrians still battling to get their homes repaired or rebuilt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ economy in good shape
    Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There has been an increasing amount of attention paid to the outlook ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZTA to refocus on safety following review
    The Government is acting swiftly to strengthen NZTA’s regulatory role following a review into the Transport Agency, and Ministry of Transport’s performance as its monitor, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. An independent review by Martin Jenkins has found NZTA failed to properly regulate the transport sector under the previous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Joint Cooperation Statement on Climate Change between the Netherlands and New Zealand
    The Netherlands and New Zealand have a long-standing and close relationship based on many shared interests and values. We value the rule of law, our democracies, and multilateralism.  And we value our environment – at home and globally. Right now there are major global challenges in all of these areas – ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government putting right Holidays Act underpayment in Health
    The Government is putting right a decade’s worth of underpayment to nurses, doctors and other health workers, says Health Minister Dr David Clark.  Initial sampling of District Health Boards payroll records has found that around $550-$650 million is owed to DHB staff to comply with the Holidays Act. It’s expected ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government accounts show strong economy
    A strong surplus and low debt show the economy is performing well, and means the Government is in a good position to meet the challenges of global economic uncertainty. “The surplus and low levels of debt show the economy is in good shape. This allows the Government to spend more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ministers approve application to expand Waihi mine
    New applications from mining company OceanaGold to purchase land in Waihi for new tailings ponds associated with its gold mines have been approved. Minister of Finance Grant Robertson and Associate Minister of Finance David Parker considered the applications under the Overseas Investment Act. Earlier this year, applications from OceanaGold to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tuia 250 Voyage flotilla launches with tribute to tangata whenua
    New Zealanders in Tūranganui-a-Kiwa / Poverty Bay will witness Māori, Pākehā and Pacific voyaging traditions come together today as the Tuia 250 Voyage flotilla assembles for the first time, Māori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti Minister Kelvin Davis says. “Tuia 250 is a national commemoration and an opportunity for honest conversations ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Visit to advance trade agenda with Europe and the Commonwealth
    Minister for Trade and Export Growth David Parker leaves tomorrow for Dubai, London and Berlin for a series of meetings to advance New Zealand’s trade interests.  In Dubai he will visit New Zealand’s Pavilion at Expo 2020 where construction is underway.  There he will meet Minister of State for International Cooperation, Her ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago