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The return of John Key

Written By: - Date published: 11:10 am, August 7th, 2020 - 110 comments
Categories: brand key, covid-19, economy, education, health, jacinda ardern, john key, Judith Collins, politicans, tertiary education, uncategorized - Tags:

This week feels like I have gone through a time warp and that I have been returned to 2016.

Suddenly John Key is back in the media and displaying that passive aggressive style that he perfected.

On Tuesday he was advocating that the country’s borders be opened to allow rich people to emigrate so that we could repeat National’s economic strategy from a few years ago.  This involved creating rampant real estate inflation and a housing crisis and ignoring the real cost in human misery.

He also wants us to allow more international students to enter and for private enterprise to do the quarantining.  I am sure that will work, just as well as it has in Melbourne.

He went on the media circuit and ended up on Magic Talk, talking to another washed up politician, John Banks where he alleged that Jacinda Ardern was disinterested in the economy.  From Vita Molyneux at Newshub:

Former Prime Minister Sir John Key says while Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern communicates well she is disinterested in the economy.

In an interview with John Banks on Magic Talk on Thursday Key said the Government is “fundamentally distrustful” of the private sector and Ardern lacks passion for the economy.

“I don’t know whether the economy is her big thing really,” he said.

“I don’t know if she’s terribly interested in all that stuff.”

He also accused the Government of “not listening” to economic professionals.

“They’re listening to the health professionals but not the economic ones,” he said.

As to his claim that Ardern is disinterested in the economy a significant majority of the population would disagree with him.  And what a stupid thing to say.  After successfully holding off a surge of unemployment that would otherwise have been inevitable of course Ardern is deeply concerned with the state of the economy.

As to his second statement should we be listening to economists and not health professionals in dealing with a pandemic?  This makes perfect sense, doesn’t it?  What do health professionals know about health matters?  The logical extension of this is that if you are feeling unwell you should book yourself into an economist to work out the best treatment.

As to his wanting to open up the borders there is one problem dear readers with Key’s proposal, even from an economic perspective the proposal is bollocks.

Clint Smith in this twitter thread explains why.  He suggests the analysis should be to work out the cost of adding, for instance, a billion dollars to GDP to create roughly 10,000 jobs and then work out the risk.

My calculation is that fewer beds would be needed but still a lot more than we currently have.  And an allowance would have to be made for turnaround and cleaning and extended stays.  But clearly lack of beds would be an issue.

And what about the risk of infection, surely this should be factored into any decision.

Comparing the GDP boost to the cost of another outbreak shows how bonkers the idea is.

And there is an economic benefit in not allowing your country to be ravaged by a pandemic.  Comparing Denmark’s performance to Sweden’s shows why.  Denmark has from the start of the pandemic practised more proactive cautionary policies such as the use of masks and social distancing.  Sweden has hoped to have the virus wash through and trigger herd immunity although it has more recently put in place more protective measures.  Denmark has had 14,000 cases and 616 deaths.  Sweden has had 81,000 cases and 5,760 deaths.  And Sweden’s economy has been battered far worse than Denmark’s and is now facing supply chain problems.

What about Key’s other idea of letting in uber wealthy foreigners?  Only if he wants the rest of us to become serfs in our own land.

While I am on the subject can I express my amazement that an Auckland [Council] controlled organisation would organise such a big event about what the Auckland community should do to deal with the economic repercussions of Covid and not invite locally elected councillors or local board members?  Or have as keynote speakers, Key and Rob Fyfe, to broadcast with a council paid for megaphone during an election campaign the proposal that our quarantine system should be loosened. And the problem with the event is that it appears, at least at a superficial level, that because of what was said there is at least tacit Auckland Council support for the views expressed.

It is crazy that in the middle of a campaign Key would make such a big return to public life and effectively sideline Collins.  National must be desperate.

110 comments on “The return of John Key ”

  1. Tiger Mountain 1

    Since scarpering before the end of his third term, to “spend more time with the missus and kids” he has never seemed busier representing international Finance Capital as he has done all his working life, and did particularly in the NZ Parliament. Directorships on banks and other corporates, international forums and think tanks, and media pundit when someone needs “whacking”, or promoting, at the behest of the NZ National Party top echelon.

    The pony puller in chief should ackshully retire…and do the country a favour.

    • Chris 1.1

      I was expecting Collins to use Key's comments as an opportunity to try to come across as soft and caring by rejecting what he says about relaxing the borders in favour of protecting the 'health of hard working kiwis', but she's not bright enough for that. Instead she complains about the dole numbers being too high as well as spending on wage subsidies even though without the wage subsidy the dole numbers would be higher.

      Collins reminds me of Duck Phillips in Mad Men when he has a tantrum after finding out Don hasn't got a contract: fools some of the people some of the time, but too stupid to sustain it, and loses their rag when things come tumbling down. Collins is showing the very first signs of her inevitable tantrum right now, although in her mind things haven't quite come tumbling down yet so it is early days. Classic psychopath. Fantastic.

      • Infused 1.1.1

        people will be coming through the border whether you like it or not. Its just a matter of when

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    He also accused the Government of “not listening” to economic professionals.

    They're sure as hell not listening to Bernard Hickey, eh? I got into trouble for pointing that out on OM this morning. His crime is suggesting that the coalition, being flush with money, ought to rescue the economy by spending some to employ people.

    Months have passed since he first advised that response to the pandemic-induced recession looming. Such traditional Labour thinking is apparently anathema to some leftists here but they haven't explained why.

    • Sacha 2.1

      some leftists here

      Sigh. Don't you have anything better to do with yourself today?

      • Drowsy M. Kram 2.1.1

        "It's pining for The Fjords.", but AT said it better @5 – ‘where would we be…’, eh?

      • Dennis Frank 2.1.2

        One of the benefits of retirement is time available to point out what the left are doing wrong. Inasmuch as consciousness-raising is a popular leftist cultural project, I'm keen to help. It's always possible that political effectiveness will result.

        For instance, if that portion of them who dislike Bernard Hickey for advocating trad Labour economic policy does decide to pull finger and explain why, their reasoning may suit our economic situation. Collective consciousness would be raised to mutual benefit, eh?

        • Sacha 2.1.2.1

          Have people here 'disliked' Hickey, or do you mean in general?

          • Dennis Frank 2.1.2.1.1

            Yeah, in response to what I posted early this morning – but that microcosm is likely to represent a larger microcosm in general as well.

            • Incognito 2.1.2.1.1.1

              I don’t dislike Taylor Swift or her lyrics but I cannot stand the sounds she makes.

              C'est le ton qui fait la musique.

            • Muttonbird 2.1.2.1.1.2

              I don't like the way you suffocated Open Mike this morning with your multi-comment and contradictory rant.

              I'm yet to form an opinion on you as a "larger microcosm".

              • Dennis Frank

                you suffocated Open Mike this morning

                Did not. Commentators are always free to choose their responses – or lack thereof. I just expose flaws here & there. If you don't like it, why not help eliminate the flaws? Trying to shoot the messenger is puerile.

                Incidentally `larger microcosm' is a technical reference (in the theory of holism). If you did group theory in college maths you'll be familiar with the concept even if the terminology is new. It's about the relation of sub-groups the groups they are part of and the sub-groups that are part of them.

    • Just Is 2.2

      Dennis, anyone listening to Key for Economic Advice has completely forgotten about the 9 yrs of complete economic failure, ideology was what drove economic policy which resulted in world record examples of economic failure, recession from incompetence, trashed social services.

      Oh, how people have such Short memories, or is it just the aging process thingy

      • Dennis Frank 2.2.1

        I agree with that. A clever way for Labour to respond would be to point out that they are listening to some economists. Media could then try to discover which ones. Key's point would lose leverage.

        Folks forget that economists exist in different social domains: some in universities, some in business, some in Treasury, etc. You can bet that Labour is using that third group, if not others…

    • Pat 2.3

      Labour are indeed listening….to the 50-60% who will vote for them.

      The fact that the policy isnt what some want isnt of concern to them

    • peter sim 2.4

      Who the hell would want to listen to economists (professional bullshitters)..

      Hickey has the smarts.

      W

    • mpledger 2.5

      They need to employ the right people at the right price and that takes time to work out. There is no point buggering an industry by taking away workers because of setting better pay rates elsewhere.

  3. Sacha 3

    The logical extension of this is that if you are feeling unwell you should book yourself into an economist to work out the best treatment.

    Leaches. Always the leaches. Pay reception on your way out.

  4. Hanswurst 4

    Key is an utter dickhead. Can't we just forget about him?

    • Wensleydale 4.1

      God knows we've tried. Sadly, the MSM still wheel him out to hold court on behalf of the big end of town. "Former Prime Minister, John Key, says… blah, blah, economy, drone, drone, business, etc." It would be nice if he'd just quietly retire to Hawaii and not come back. Ever.

      • How many times did JK entertain with a BBQ, Boag Ede Farrar Hooten Uncle Tom Cobley and all…? Answer = when they were useful to John Key!!

        • anker 4.1.1.1

          Heard from people in the know, my lips are sealed is that all that stuff about John Key great times at a bbq, is just bullshit. Just a persona created so he had that ordinary guy feel that people could relate too. My source is a good one. It also make sense to me when I heard it

  5. Alice Tectonite 5

    Since scarpering before the end of his third term …

    Makes me think of Sir Robin for some reason…

    Edit: was meant to be reply to Tiger Mountain

  6. Just Is 6

    Johns reappearance is really due to the Pathetic efforts of his former party to become relevant in the current Global Pandemic situation.

    We've all forgotten very quickly how the Nats are in complete disarray, changing Leaders more often than most people change their underwear, each time panic seemed like main driver.

    How many Nat MPs are retiring this election or have resigned, it looks like they'll have 3 yrs to rebuild, identify a new leader that carries no baggage, which could be dificult, Keys choice of Luxon is a joke when you consider his political experience.

    Keys previous choice of leader, Simon Says was a walking disaster, and we know he will never support a woman in that role, he knows Collins is temporary, carry them through the election loss and then replaced, her and Brownlee are past their use by dates.

    Key screaming to open the borders will not be well recieved by your average Kiwi who supported all the Lockdown processes, which is mostly a Team of 5 million, Kiwis are well aware of the risks, Victoria is an example of what Not to do.

    I doubt anyone could describe a single thing that Key achieved for the majority of Kiwis, I challenge anyone to name just one thing.

  7. Muttonbird 7

    A clearer vote of no confidence in Collins you couldn't hope to see.

    Even Steven Joyce savaged her silently the other day for deliberately outing ILG's affair. Joyce then managed to contradict himself in the article by admonishing the role of the unmentioned Collins and media in that case, then admonishing Claire Curren for criticising the media in her valedictory, claiming the media shouldn't, "gloss over" issues.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12353930

  8. SPC 8

    It was choreographed, first English says its going to get worse economically, then Key comes along with we have to be opening up the borders to boost the economy.

    It's not unique, many commentators on the right are taking this approach – more so than those in government – their influence on government in the UK and the USA is fading.

    In Victoria a lot of the recent transmission was at the workplace so they gave up their looser constraints on business approach. Real world evidence.

    Part of the reason for National's ex leader mansplaining is electoral desperation, a sidekick to the largest bribe promises of spend up in our political history (easily done when they have no expectations of victory).

    But their real policy in government would be community transmission, that's consistent with capitalism comes first, people come second.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1

      But their real policy in government would be community transmission, that's consistent with capitalism comes first, people come second.

      QFT

    • infused 8.2

      same with labour and masks/next lot of community transmission.

  9. Byd0nz 9

    The HJK (Horrible John Key) in an interview wth the HJB (Horrible John Banks) moans about the HJA ( Honourable Jacinda Ardern) not seemingly interested in the ecconomy, of course he is talking about the ecconomy suited to the elite bludgers, he has no comprehension of a socialist ecconomy. What I can't understand though, is why would you want to listen to John Banks or John Key. My radio would feel the Hammer of the Sickle variety pronto.

  10. Robert Guyton 10

    " National must be desperate."

    Pretty tidy assessment.

  11. AB 11

    "They’re listening to the health professionals but not the economic ones"

    'Economic professionals' are like lawyers, I can always find one who will tell me something different from the last one, until I hear what I like. Virologists and epidemiologists are annoying b*ggers, they all tend to agree on certain things that don't suit my agenda.

    And wtf is an 'economic professional'?

    • Gabby 11.1

      I suspect Suj On Ki considers himself one of that ilk.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2

      And wtf is an 'economic professional'?

      Someone employed by the private sector to tell everyone else how good the private sector is.

    • gsays 11.3

      And wtf is an 'economic professional'?

      Kind of like an astrologer.

      Both deal in a realm that is heavily dependent on confidence, although economists merely articulate a single view of a fiction, horoscopes are loosely based on science.

  12. peterh 12

    The student bring back in fools, have not got half a brain, there are already over 20,000 here and they are 60% through this year NO students are going to come in and play catchup, until next year starts,the Govt are already having talks about this with the education sector

  13. Robert Guyton 14

    So now the Nats have a new leader!

  14. Draco T Bastard 15

    In an interview with John Banks on Magic Talk on Thursday Key said the Government is “fundamentally distrustful” of the private sector

    After the ravages of 30 years of neo-liberalism, so is everyone else. The only people who still believe that the private sector is actually any good are those who are mading out like bandits from the fire sales of state assets.

    He also accused the Government of “not listening” to economic professionals.

    That'd be a Good Thing™ as the economic professionals obviously don't know what an economy actually is and keep presenting us with a failed hypothesis. An hypothesis that the private sector seems to have fully paid for (see video).

    As to his claim that Ardern is disinterested in the economy a significant majority of the population would disagree with him. And what a stupid thing to say.

    The National Party followers will, of course, believe him. They'll believe anything he says no the facts. In fact, pointing out the facts to them will have them getting upset that anyone would question his wisdom and digging in deeper. Its typical authoritarian follower behaviour.

    John Key's not there to state facts but to bring National's followers back into the fold with his fake smile.

    As to his second statement should we be listening to economists and not health professionals in dealing with a pandemic?

    If the economists are saying to open the borders while the health professionals aren't then the economists aren't being very good economists as they're failing to understand their own hypothesis on specialisation. Which would just prove that we should ignore the fuckers.

    Clint Smith in this twitter thread explains why.

    I hope the government will actually point out this same reasoning and the estimated cost/benefit ratio. It won't stop the idiots in National listening to Key but it will the majority of people the information they need to make informed decisions.

    What about Key’s other idea of letting in uber wealthy foreigners? Only if he wants the rest of us to become serfs in our own land.

    That does appear to be what he wants – with him as one of the aristocrats.

  15. Kat 16

    It's all about trying to control the media narrative. National accuses the govt of fear mongering with the virus health warnings, masks and border control and then proceeds to spread fear about the economy, jobs and everything going to hell in a hand basket if a Jacinda Ardern led govt is returned in September.

    Who in the media is going to push against it, certainly not the likes of Paula Bennett who is now a talkback host.

  16. anker 17

    Was the quote that Jacinda is disinterested in the economy from Key? If so I think he means uninterested, not disinterested………..disinterested means impartial………….

    Aside from not knowing the English language, Key is just ignorant………

  17. mary_a 18

    Re Key …

    "He also accused the Government of “not listening” to economic professionals.“They’re listening to the health professionals but not the economic ones,” he said."

    In the above statement Key is downplaying Covid-19, regardless of its deadly consequences! Unfortunately there are those out there who swear by the ignorant utterances of Key, this one in particular, believing his word is the absolute truth and will vote accordingly, which of course in its desperation is National's intended purpose!

    Thank goodness we have a leader and government in place that takes the disease seriously and acts appropriately in the best interests of Kiwis' health and the nation's well being. The alternative would be horrific!

    • Janet 18.1

      Key has only an "economic" family legacy . He has no family legacy/history invested in the development of NZ to a modern nation. Therein lies his shallowness I think.

  18. Treetop 19

    Key can go and play golf with Trump and advise him economically.

    Trump has a broken country a fully blown pandemic, 60 million unemployed and likely protests in the coming weeks as 40 million renters are at risk of not affording the rent.

    The death toll is rising, (estimated 300,000 deaths this year) a depression is likely and riots could erupt.

    Figures from Aljazeera TV.

    NZ is managing compared to the US.

    Is Key bored and does he like the idea of the government having 15 billion and finding ways to spend it?

    Covid-19 has taught me that caution and being alert is required to live with the pandemic. Not being foolish (community spread) and trying to make a profit from a pandemic.

  19. Ad 20

    Clint Smith should just fire himself. Zero people are advocating a return to the low-value mass tourism model.

    And both John Key and Helen Clark should be used better and wiser by the Ardern government. They are two of the best placed international leaders we have, and both highly effective and influential in critical fields for New Zealand.

    Ardern continues to fail to grow civic leadership to any seniority: just too busy surviving and throwing money at regions.

    Key and Clark are vital to the post-crisis economy.

    • Muttonbird 20.1

      The let them speak post-crisis.

      Right now they should refrain from blurting generalities to council and right wing radio, and wait for those who have delivered us safely from Covid to finish the job.

      Entertaining dangerous ideas from pandemic-deniers like Key and Clark would have us like Melbourne x10 within weeks.

      We'll let them know when it's safe to talk.

      • Ad 20.1.1

        What ignorance you show.

        Key was precisely speaking at a conference about Auckland reviving in a Covid-19 world.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/422777/auckland-economy-crisis-summit-to-work-out-covid-19-recovery-plan

        It was organised by ATEED who are the economic development arm of Auckland Council, for precisely the planning required to revive the economy.

        Here's how it went.

        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2020/08/business-summit-kicks-off-amid-fears-for-auckland-during-covid-19-economic-crisis.html

        There will be more of them, and most regions are generating similar versions.

        • Muttonbird 20.1.1.1

          And you are as erratic as usual.

          Key doesn't need to take those speaking engagements, particularly in an election period. Most people would prefer he didn't.

          And he offers nothing new, just to go back down the road we were on for 9 years. Bring back the corrupt education industry! Overturn the foreign buyers ban!

          Remember how we changed the government?

        • Tiger Mountain 20.1.1.2

          And it’s a throat slitting gesture from me, in response to Ad’s “Key Love”…

          What did the slippery, asset selling, off shore Trust enabling, wait staff harassing pony puller, ever do for working class NZers first time around?–except make sure the loot was shovelled “upstairs” to his parasite class, as wealth became ever more concentrated into fewer hands.

        • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1.3

          It was organised by ATEED who are the economic development arm of Auckland Council, for precisely the planning required to revive the economy.

          And that's all I needed to know to understand that it was a bunch of people coming together and trying desperately to be relevant in the new paradigm and showing that they just don't get it, that they do not understand what's happened or the changes that are needed.

          The economy is actually fine. The problem that these people have is that they're probably about to lose everything that they haven't worked for.

    • woodart 20.2

      bullshit to your claim that key and clark are vital to anything.

      • Muttonbird 20.2.1

        +1. The claim that John Key in particular is vital to the future of New Zealand is nothing but deeply held right-wing belief.

        I don't think Ad is that far right, so the only other explanation for his claim is reckless, shoot-from-the-hip commenting.

        • Incognito 20.2.1.1

          Of course, Key and Clark are not vital in a literal sense, but they can bring valuable stuff to the table and have large networks of people who can and do make things happen while the apathetic hoi polloi watch Netflix, rugby, or hammer their keyboards attacking the very few people who dare to write or say something provocatively in order to wake the lethargics from their collective slumber and encourage to do some bold and critical thinking. Some do this less provocatively, e.g. Hickey and Oram, but unfortunately their messages are spoiled by self-made/styled ‘media commentators’ here. Either way, the response is always so boringly predictable.

          • Muttonbird 20.2.1.1.1

            If that's the case, I too am waking lethargics with my comments. If you fall asleep John Key will once again influence a movement of asset stripping and elitism.

            This road has been travelled before and we didn't like where it was heading. Asking for directions from John Key now seems indecisive and weak.

            • Incognito 20.2.1.1.1.1

              What some appear to do is to write off Sir John Key completely because of who he is or who they think he is (Key’s persona); Morrissey would say he does lack credibility. No matter how much I understand this kneejerk reaction, it ignores that Key’s no evil idiot and that he does have things to offer. Same with Clark. I think this is an immature response and attitude. There is no reason why no good things can come from the Right side of politics and only from the Left. It is dumb, IMO, to buy into this kind of binary and hyper-polarised thinking. One needs to separate the wheat from the chaff and find the common ground on which lasting/durable decisions can be made for the greater good. I’d like to believe that this is what Ad/Advantage is doing here too but few like to listen and many feel the need to criticise; some here can’t help themselves and criticise just about anything that they see fault with. It is becoming so boringly predictable.

          • Tiger Mountain 20.2.1.1.2

            Well Incognito, what you label “predictable” I see as principled views, from a working class analysis of the track record of Key in particular.

    • Draco T Bastard 20.3

      And both John Key and Helen Clark should be used better and wiser by the Ardern government.

      What Key & Clark are doing is dangerous to most of NZ which is not economic.

      They are two of the best placed international leaders we have, and both highly effective and influential in critical fields for New Zealand.

      Ah, I see – you're still working on the delusional idea that trade is necessary despite the fact that its not and its the distributor of the pandemic.

      Key and Clark are vital to the post-crisis economy.

      No, they're not. No person is but community most definitely will be.

    • Kiwijoker 20.4

      You cannot be serious!

  20. Leighton 21

    Clint Smith's analysis is wrong because 250 x0.1% isnt 25%, it is 0.25%. So a 1 in 400 chance of an outbreak, not 1 in 4. Given the potentially catastrophic consequences if that chance materialises it still isnt worth it but we might as well work on correct figures.

  21. NZJester 22

    I am guessing that the warnings that we should all be stocking up on masks we are getting are in case somehow a National government gets into power at this coming election.

    If they get in the likelihood of a fresh round of community spread infections will slowly increase as they open up New Zealand for the sake of the profit margins of a small section of the business elite class.

    International students will flood in thinking they have a way to escape from the virus in their own countries only to find they have just brought the problem with them.

  22. Bryan 23

    Speaking of the Nats talking points and the surrogates delivering them – it only took 2.5 nanoseconds for dear old granny Herald to breathe life into the undead Matthew Hooton -so that he can in his special, simpering, snide modus operandi blurt out the on-message memes from the Judith bunker.

  23. Muttonbird 24

    If Key gets the chance to do speaking engagements at Council Summits up and down the country this election period – he will be political about it. Each speaking engagement will be accompanied by a radio appearance – he will be political about it.

    And those political comments will be the foundation of a strategy by the Nats to mesh their own arguments during the campaign with his. The two, Key and Collins, will be a joint force.

    This is the stuff that turns elections.

    • Treetop 24.1

      I thought NZ was having a general election and not a local body election.

      I would not put it past Key to run for Auckland Mayor.

      Could you imagine it if he did and won?

  24. sumsuch 25

    His Shallowness. His tenure, 9 years we can't afford. Thoroughly disproved. Just read an article where his debt build-up, private and public, for presenting a pretty picture can't be overcome.

    The bother is in this last age ( probable to 90%) we continue on with the pretty picture idea of politics.

    In the 30s, finally the right time — 'pretty picture' — but it was based on lifetimes of struggle, So it exploded into the foundation of the Welfare State, where so many countries were turning to Fascism. Certainly more intelligence now, but not the drive.

  25. Observer Tokoroa 26

    Helpless mr key

    Yesterday along with others I pointed out that the Wealthy Nationals have no interest whatever in the Citizens of New Zealand. Over all their decades, they never ever had an interest.

    National still have only two aims. Namely, to Glutton themselves night and day. and to enslave the hundreds and thousands of our under paid and under housed good Citizens.

    National knows that denying people too little Food is the prime crime on Planet Earth. That's why Mr Key smiles so readily. As does his Friend the Crusher.

    These same hard working families and individuals who have to daily seek food from churches and from decent – unknown persons, who give out food and share it. Add in the Blankets.

    National has no Concept of Human. Or of Church. Or of Grace. Or of Poverty.

    Mr Key is their Leader. Like all Gluttons, he does not reveal his Worth. Neither does Trump.

    • Treetop 26.1

      Both Key and Trump are addicted to making money and they have no plan for ensuring the basic needs of people are met.

      What is ahead socially and economically in 3 months or 6 months is unknown for many people in heavily infected Covid-19 countries.

      The 20 20s are going to be a period where people elect governments who are going to provide for those with the least.

    • Chris T 26.2

      Here was me thinking was no longer National Party leader.

      There is having grudges against people you don't like and then there is being a bit fixated.

      • Incognito 26.2.1

        John Key is the Bill Clinton of NZ politics, including a few ‘stains’ on his revers.

        • Chris T 26.2.1.1

          Would think that would be more only if you listen to what he says and take it seriously.

          Same as Clark.

          Both think we should open the boarders sooner rather than later.

          You can decide they are wrong, but who cares?

          They both are no longer in politics apart from as sales reps for their former parties.

  26. Observer Tokoroa 27

    I Agree – Treetop

    The future does not include the Wealthy. They do not even understand simple things such as Democracy. Let alone Decency and Humanity.

    I see a new World between 20 – 20 and 30 – 30.

    Do you too ?

    • Chris T 27.1

      Should Gates and Buffet take their billions in donations back?

      • Muttonbird 27.1.1

        Private individuals should not be the deliverers of social policy at that scale.

        • Chris T 27.1.1.1

          So rich people giving all their money away also makes them bad people?

          • Muttonbird 27.1.1.1.1

            No. The model is not accountable though. They don't distribute according to any plan, they distribute according to what takes their fancy. Some don't distribute at all. Some to socially harmful enterprises, I expect.

      • Treetop 27.1.2

        They should be taxed as much as the working man or woman.

        • Muttonbird 27.1.2.1

          Nice zinger!

        • Chris T 27.1.2.2

          Funny enough Gates agrees

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12298080

          But of course he is evil as he is loaded

          • Drowsy M. Kram 27.1.2.2.1

            …he [Gates] is evil as he is loaded

            Intent is a prerequisite for evil, IMHO. Did Gates intend to become "loaded"?

            • Chris T 27.1.2.2.1.1

              Probably not originally. Was more a passion for electronics and software that happened to be at the perfect time from what I have read and the perfect era and he plans to give most of it away with Buffet.

              Did Ardern intend to become loaded on a smaller scale?

              They are both comparatively rich compared to your average kiwi.

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                "Probably not originally."

                But at some point, right? And if that were the case then I’d agree with your assertion: "…he [Gates] is evil as he is loaded"

                Also agree that the magnitude of evil is proportional to the amount of wealth intentionally accumulated, if that is your contention.

                • Chris T

                  No idea. I have never meet him.

                  Did Ardern intend to become loaded?

                  Did she think "I am the PM now. Yah! I am going to be a multi millionaire"

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Ah, got it, wealth just 'happens' to some people – a lucky accident, like being born to wealthy parents (I'm looking at you, Trump).

                    Gates, Ardern, Trump, Key; all wealthy – practically identical laugh

                    But if you’ve never met Gates, how is it that you’re so certain he’s evil? “But of course he is evil as he is loaded

                    • Chris T

                      More just all working their arses off more than your average person and happening to get lucky breaks/timing.

                      Which almost leads to inevitable decent money

                      Gates, and Jobs, in electronics, in the 70's and 80's

                      Ardern in 2017

                      Know it is vastly different levels, but it is similar

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Very similar, slightly similar, very slightly similar, or similar in the way that a 10 cent coin is similar to a $100 dollar note?

                      Beginning to have doubts that you really meant what you wrote: “But of course he [Gates] is evil as he is loaded

                    • Chris T

                      I don't think Gates is evil.

                      I will leave that to you lot.

                      In the same way I don't think Ardern is evil.

                      They just happened to have lucky timing financially wise. while working their arses off.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      You wrote @27.1.2.2 "But of course he [Gates] is evil as he is loaded"

                      Now you've written (@7:06 pm) "I don't think Gates is evil."

                      Thanks for clarifying your position (I think). You were the first person on this page to mention Gates, and to use the word 'evil', but 'we lot' (poors?) think Gates is evil?

                      Btw, your assertion @3:19 pm that there are "plenty of selfish arsehole poor people" is intriguing. Do you reckon that the proportion of selfish arseholes in the smaller population of wealthy people is similar, but at “vastly different levels” to the larger population of poor people?

                      Why Are Rich People So Mean?
                      Call it Rich Asshole Syndrome—the tendency to distance yourself from people with whom you have a large wealth differential.

                    • Chris T

                      I was being sarcastic. Gates is rich, so must be evil according to some on here type thing

                    • Chris T

                      And I have not meet all poor people or rich people so don't know the proportion of arseholes in each.

                      Just know there tends to be them in both categories.

                      If you want to deny there are arseholes who are poor all good.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      No denial here, CT, just wondering if "selfish arseholes" (your term) are over-represented in the rich. If you don't believe that, it's all good.

                      Was it only by chance that you used the terms "plenty of selfish rich people" and "plenty of selfish arsehole poor people"? Maybe next time you could consider associating 'arsehole' with the rich, as in 'plenty of selfish rich arsehole people' – just for balance, “of course.”

                      And thanks for the “sarcastic” info – I’m not good at reading that.

          • Treetop 27.1.2.2.2

            Nice to read that Gates is aware of being undertaxed.

            I did not say Gates was evil. He has privileges due to being loaded which only the loaded have.

    • Treetop 27.2

      Yes a major adjustment led by expectations not being met by the less fortunate due to the greed of the gluttons.

      The US is breaking and the President is going to have people rioting for food and those sleeping rough are going to be at risk of exposure over the winter, serious crime will also increase and the voice of ill people who are going to be denied treatment will be loud.

      Health workers and first responders are suffering partial burnout and teachers work conditions are untenable so again partial burnout. Next on the list is law in forcement under pressure and bad judgement triggering outrage.

      US the wealthiest country in the world has third world issues and the pandemic has rapidly brought poverty into 1 in 6 households due to unemployment.

  27. RedBaronCV 28

    I am so happy I am not an Auckland ratepayer. I'd be furious if I was funding this rubbish. The business sector can fund their own conferences if they are so worried. Personal responsibility of course is required.

    . There is also a high degree of arrogance in local body usurping a government function of overall economic planning

    And why do they not issue some decent economic analysis of the overall benefit to the country. Oh that’s right there is none. Media should be asking for this!

    And Helen Clark & Goff should back off and let the current labour party run this not be used and provide cover for right wing ideas.

  28. When losses are likely, the hands of "Think Tanks go into the Public Purse."

    When Profits are likely in Business, everything is done to dodge paying tax.

    Two bites of the Cherry.

    "Oh what big teeth you have Grandma"

    "All the better to eat you with"

  29. DS 30

    Heather du Plessis-Allan has gone so far as to accuse those of us who don't want the border reopened of cowardice. Let's just say that if what Key and Du Plessis-Allan is proposing is bravery, then I'll happily consider myself a coward. Better that than a fool.

    (I actually wrote a blog post attacking this insanity).

    • Muttonbird 30.1

      Thanks DS.

      The consensus amongst the far right cabal of Heather, Barry, JuCo, Key, Helen Clark and the rest of the ZB crowd was the NZ public were cowards and we should presumably 'man-up' and take Covid infection on the chin for the good of elite New Zealand.

      68% of Kiwis disagree so I advise the ZB crowd to take their medicine and STFU.

      • Peter 30.1.1

        I wonder if the zb mob will resurrect National's Comprehensive Housing plan and the Nick Smith brilliance around that.

        There was no housing crisis but they had a 'Comprehensive Housing Plan.'

        I'm sure some joke on zb like Bruce Russell could be sold 'National's Comprehensive $10 million Housing Plan for escaping Americans." smiley

  30. newsense 31

    Odd thing to have top on the day of the campaign launch during historic polls. A lack of identity?

  31. Brian Tregaskin 32

    Johns a good guy – but the majority of New Zealanders have moved on and don't care anymore what he says.
    From a former National voter during the 2 and 3rd terms of the Key Govt. As I suspected once Key had left the handbrake on the right wing element of the party was lifted which really scares me.

  32. Austringer 33

    Like the pic, says it all really, last time the looming election, eh John going to be like Hollyoak, four terms, he Key, knowing not going to happen, leave it to Bill he can take one for the team, no not me, im not going to be tainted a looser.

  33. Duncan 34

    Not just John Key appearing on the scene, so is Peter Godfellow.

    Who is paying John Key for his input.

    He is a mercenary, a spokesperson for the elite.

    Perhaps the Exclusive Brethren, or is it the Broederbond.

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