The United Nations gives Trump the middle finger

Written By: - Date published: 8:31 am, December 22nd, 2017 - 252 comments
Categories: aid, Donald Trump, International, us politics - Tags: , ,

Donald Trump’s attempt to make sovereign nations kowtow to America and support his crazy decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel has failed.

The United Nations has voted overwhelmingly to condemn the US decision to declare Jerusalem to be the capital of Israel

And Trump has shown yet again that his word cannot be trusted.

The Guardian reported on his first speech to the UN in September of this year where he said this:

Strong, sovereign nations let diverse countries with different values, different cultures and different dreams not just coexist but work side by side on the basis of mutual respect.”

Fast forward three months and the world was told to oppose the US decision at their collective peril.  So much for mutual respect.  Again from the Guardian:

Hayley’s implicit threat was that countries that defied the US president would face consequences. A few hours later, Trump made explicit what is implicit in America First diplomacy. If the UN voted against the US, he forecast that the US would “save a lot”.

“We don’t care. But this isn’t like it used to be where they could vote against you and then you pay them hundreds of millions of dollars. We’re not going to be taken advantage of any longer,” Trump said.

If soft power, in the words of Joseph Nye, “is the ability to get what you want through attraction rather than coercion,” then Trump has become the ultimate exponent of hard-power diplomacy.

And it failed.  Although Trump’s political goals were clearly domestic rather than international.  Again from the Guardian:

But there has been something qualitatively different about the US treatment of fellow member states over Jerusalem. The line of attack was so populist, so redolent of a protection racket, that it can only be aimed at a domestic audience rather than an external one. As countless diplomats have warned in the past 24 hours, it will also be counter-productive, only deepening US isolation.

Despite the warnings, the UN general assembly voted by a huge majority to reject Trump’s unilateral recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital on Thursday, with Canada reportedly switching from supporting the US to abstaining in protest at the attempt to strong-arm states.

Even before the vote, Bolivia’s UN ambassador, Sacha Llorenty, advised Haley that the first name she should write down in her black book was Bolivia. For many countries, especially in the Middle East and Latin America, it will be a badge of honour to have defied a super power.

Countries normally close to the US, such as Egypt, France and Saudi Arabia, had to take a discreet step away. They had their own courts of public opinion. When the roll call was taken, only nine countries – most with populations counted in the tens of thousands – backed the superpower. Haley’s notebook was filled with the names of 128 countries that had ignored her threats.

The resolution was supported by 128 nations, with 35 abstaining and only 9 opposing.  New Zealand voted for the resolution as did the United Kingdom, Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.  Canada and Australia abstained.

Those that voted against the resolution included the following:

  •  Guatemala
  •  Honduras
  •  Israel
  •  Marshall Islands
  •  Micronesia
  •  Nauru
  •  Palau
  •  Togo
  •  United States

The only supporters apart from Israel were small Pacific and Central American nations.

No doubt Trump will now carry through with his threat to cut funding for the UN and aid funding for nations that decided to stand up to the world’s largest bully nation.

His stance will go down well with the unhinged Fox news back at home.  Anyone with any appreciation of the nuances of International relations will be aghast.

Meanwhile National’s pollster has engaged in this glaring piece of pro Israeli propaganda, describing what have been very civilised requests to Lorde not to play in Israel as being “nasty” and claiming that the movement to culturally isolate Israel is wrong because opponents are not simultaneously opposing all human rights breaches everwhere.  Israel deserves all the criticism it is getting.  It has thumbed its nose at UN resolution after UN resolution, breached all sorts of International Law provisions through its forced settlement and annexation of Palestinian land and the terrorising of the Palestinian people.  Anyone with a heart and a mind should be opposing what is happening.

And if Lorde wanted to make a bold statement in support of human rights she could do no better than to cancel her concert.

252 comments on “The United Nations gives Trump the middle finger ”

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  1. Ad 1
    22 December 2017 at 8:36 am

    Right back at you Ambassador Hayely.

  2. Stunned mullet 2
    22 December 2017 at 8:46 am

    “And if Lorde wanted to make a bold statement in support of human rights she could do no better than to cancel her concert.”

    And yet if she went to Israel she could send a message to young israelis and palestinians attending the concert that would be far more powerful than being pressured by fools like yourself.

    OH and to quote the great Nelson Muntz at President trump…ha ha

    • DoublePlusGood 2.1
      22 December 2017 at 10:53 am

      “And yet if she went to Israel she could send a message to young israelis and palestinians attending the concert that would be far more powerful than being pressured by fools like yourself.”

      What, send a message that Israeli propaganda works? Stupid.

      • Aaron 2.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 1:05 pm

        I’m not saying what Lorde should or shouldn’t do but if she went there and spoke up during the show in defense of Palestine that would surely be a powerful statement. or I missing something?

        The Fools comment was stupid though 🙂

        • Ross 2.1.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 1:39 pm

          Aaron

          If you think Lorde intends to speak out against Israel’s illegal occupation, I suggest you buy a Lotto ticket before tomorrow night’s draw. 🙂

    • spikeyboy 2.2
      22 December 2017 at 12:05 pm

      Would that be like the All Blacks continuing to play in South Africa? Apartheid is apartheid and the only message that might get through is boycott and divest. Playing in Israel will only be taken as support for the rascist regime.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3
      22 December 2017 at 1:15 pm

      The same was said about South Africa and sporting. That the sporting contact would shift that nation into being a Good Nation.

      Didn’t work then either.

      • alwyn 2.3.1
        22 December 2017 at 6:06 pm

        Unfortunately getting rid of apartheid didn’t lead to Nirvana either.
        25 years later and we have Zuma in the job.
        Who do you think is the worst out of Zuma, Nicolas Maduro or Aung San Suu Kyi?
        I would say the lady because the number of murders among the Rohingya people is far worse than in either of the other two countries, amounting in my view to genocide.
        Zuma is hardly a saint though is he and he certainly wasn’t what was hoped for on the overthrow of apartheid.

        • Ed 2.3.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 6:11 pm

          You only don’t like Maduro because you were told not to like him.

          I wish some of you right wingers would actually be a bit more curious about the world, rather than just accept what the western corporate media tells you.

          So watch this ( it’s 22 minutes long) and then we are ready to chat about Venezuela.

          • alwyn 2.3.1.1.1
            22 December 2017 at 6:22 pm

            I prefer to listen to people I know who lived there until quite recently.
            They held another passport so didn’t need to get a Venezuelan Passport to get out. Getting one of those is almost impossible for an average person because of the destruction of the currency there.
            They said the whole country was on the verge of collapse and that starvation was widespread.
            Still, what would they know compared to someone who has watched a TV program.

            • Ed 2.3.1.1.1.1
              22 December 2017 at 6:23 pm

              So you didn’t watch this piece of investigative journalism made this year.
              Typical.

              • alwyn …
                22 December 2017 at 6:34 pm

                I didn’t say I hadn’t, or more accurately wouldn’t, watch it. As it happens I haven’t, yet, watched it as I haven’t had the time.
                I said I would actually trust the views of people I know and who have seen the situation in the country more than someone making a propaganda film, or yourself who seems to like Maduro a little more than I consider balanced.

  3. Ed 3
    22 December 2017 at 9:01 am

    Shame on Australia.

    • Stunned mullet 3.1
      22 December 2017 at 9:14 am

      Why single out Australia ?

    • srylands 3.2
      22 December 2017 at 4:06 pm

      Get fucked. New Zealand should have opposed the resolution. Jerusalem is the eternal capital of Israel.

      • Ed 3.2.1
        22 December 2017 at 4:20 pm

        Charming as ever.
        The eternal city…..

      • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2
        22 December 2017 at 5:27 pm

        In reality, Israel ceased to exist two thousand years ago when they were conquered by the Romans.

        • alwyn 3.2.2.1
          22 December 2017 at 6:14 pm

          Wow, that is a hard standard to set.
          I suppose you would say that the British Empire still existed and is made up of every country except the USA. After all they were the only people who defeated Britain and, in that location at least conquered them.
          All the others are still under the rule of the Brits because they were the last people who actually conquered the land.

          • Ed 3.2.2.1.1
            22 December 2017 at 6:15 pm

            Very silly.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2.1.2
            22 December 2017 at 7:00 pm

            I suppose you would say that the British Empire still existed and is made up of every country except the USA.

            Why would I say that?

            It was obvious that the British Empire was in decline in the 19th century and that it was completely gone by the end of WWI.

            After all they were the only people who defeated Britain and, in that location at least conquered them.

            The USA hasn’t conquered Britain even though Britain is now part of the new US Empire.

            All the others are still under the rule of the Brits because they were the last people who actually conquered the land.

            Except that they’re not. As the British Empire collapsed all those nations chose to become self-governing nations.

            Israel ceased to exist 2000 years ago and it’s modern imposition is an injustice carried out by the UN. An injustice that needs to be corrected.

            • SPC 3.2.2.1.2.1
              22 December 2017 at 9:41 pm

              Agreed, Israel is a modern imposition/determination of the UN (as a way to conclude the League of Nations Palestine mandate), but no more than another state west of the Jordan River (to be) called Palestine is supposed to be as well.

        • SPC 3.2.2.2
          22 December 2017 at 6:18 pm

          Did Gaul or Britain cease to exist upon Roman conquest?

          But sure Jerusalem has only occasionally been the centre of government in the area.

          What it has been is a capital for a Jewish self governing nation (usually called Judah or Judea, briefly Judea and Samaria – but for only (if you accept the biblical record of a father and son period) the rule of two kings for a nation called Israel prior to the 20th Century.

            • SPC 3.2.2.2.1.1
              22 December 2017 at 6:38 pm

              Sure. My point was that the area called Israel continues to exist regardless of who rules over it, though rulers do get to name it as they choose.

              I should have added, given the region was known as Judea, Samaria, Galilee and Ituraea back in those days, the people called themselves Jews, not Israelis.

              • Ed …
                22 December 2017 at 6:40 pm

                It was called Palestine not Israel for many many centuries.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine

              • Draco T Bastard …
                22 December 2017 at 6:54 pm

                My point was that the area called Israel continues to exist regardless of who rules over it, though rulers do get to name it as they choose.

                And the rulers, up until the injustice of present day Israel was forced upon the people who lived there by the UN, called it Palestine.

                The Palestinians are the nation that arose in that place over the last 2000 years. It is their land and they have the right of self-determination.

                • SPC …
                  22 December 2017 at 7:02 pm

                  Within what borders?

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    23 December 2017 at 11:50 am

                    Much larger ones. Haven’t you read the History of Palestine yet?

                    • SPC …
                      23 December 2017 at 11:57 am

                      It’s the ambition of “national” groups for much larger borders that is the root of this problem.

                      PS The Arabs (because they spoke Arabic) in the Syrian province did not refer to themselves as Palestinians, there has been no history of self government in this area since 70CE to create any post Jewish national “groupism”.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      24 December 2017 at 1:41 pm

                      Palestinians view themselves as a nation and have done since at least the 19th century. They have continuously occupied the area known as Palestine for centuries and, over that time, have developed their own culture.

                      And that is all it takes for them to be a nation state that occupies known borders.

                    • SPC …
                      24 December 2017 at 1:57 pm

                      No less than the American Indian or the Maori then.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2.2.2
            22 December 2017 at 6:51 pm

            Did Gaul or Britain cease to exist upon Roman conquest?

            Where is the nation called Gaul?

            Did Britain exist prior to the Roman conquest of what is now Britain?

            What it has been is a capital for a Jewish self governing nation

            Which hasn’t existed for 2000 years.

            (if you accept the biblical record

            The bible isn’t a record – it’s a myth written by men for their own power and aggrandizement.

            • SPC 3.2.2.2.2.1
              22 December 2017 at 7:00 pm

              Rome named areas under their rule, Gaul and Britain and Palestine.

              Many modern nations have no history of self government in their current borders whatsoever.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                22 December 2017 at 8:58 pm

                Gaul

                Of course, since the collapse of the Roman Empire other nations have arisen in their place.

                Same as what happened in Palestine. Another nation arose in the place that used to be Israel and that means that the Jews have no claim to it. Same as Rome no longer has any claim to Britain.

                • srylands …
                  22 December 2017 at 9:05 pm

                  Get fucked. Jerusalem is the eternal capital of Israel. How much time have you spent tery? OH YES. Exactly zero. Because you are opposed to air travel.

                  I suggest, fuckwit, that you launch a donation drive and raise some money to live in Jerusalem for 6 months. Then come back and report.

                  • the pigman …
                    22 December 2017 at 9:30 pm

                    You are a wonderful cultural ambassador for your religious homeland, srylands. There is some real persuasive force in your arguments. I for one will be hopping on the next plane to… nah.

                    Merry Christmas, mate.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    23 December 2017 at 11:52 am

                    Jerusalem is the eternal capital of Israel.

                    Nothing is eternal. And Israel died 2000+ years ago. As such, it doesn’t have a capital.

                    I suggest, fuckwit, that you launch a donation drive and raise some money to live in Jerusalem for 6 months.

                    Why? I can see the Israeli oppression and Crimes Against Humanity that they level against the Palestinians on TV.

                    • Stunned mullet …
                      23 December 2017 at 11:59 am

                      What drivel you type DTB.

                    • spikeyboy []
                      23 December 2017 at 2:57 pm

                      On the contrary. He types common sense. The only drivel is coming from those who see the bible as some eternal atlas of the world. Sorry to break it to you but etrnity doesn’t exist

                    • SPC …
                      23 December 2017 at 12:01 pm

                      There was no Israel (not as a people of that name nor a land area called that 2000 years ago). The people called themselves Jews, and the land was known as Judea, Samaria, Galilee and Ituraea.

                      The name Israel ceased to be in use over 500 years earlier than that. There were pockets here and there around the region of groups who called themselves beni Israel (as those in exile).

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      24 December 2017 at 1:37 pm

                      There was no Israel

                      Quite aware of that. I was using it as short hand for the area that is now Palestine.

                      The important point is that the present Israel is an invasion of Palestine. It can be viewed no other way.

                      The UN did not have the right to give away the land of the people living there to another people who didn’t.

                    • SPC …
                      24 December 2017 at 2:44 pm

                      It did, as Palestine had legal status as a League of Nations mandate, and one based on it being a land for Jewish settlement.

                      Which given growing Arab opposition to the said Jewish settlement, resulted in the UN partition plan compromise – whereby only the Jewish majority area of the land was to receive further Jewish migration.

                      Your principal objection is really to the Palestine mandate of the League of Nations that authorised the area as one to be a Jewish homeland (one which Jews could migrate to) – thus you would have supported the White Paper policy in which the British empire failed to keep the terms of the said mandate.

                      But large scale Jewish migration into this area began in the period of Ottoman rule.

            • Stunned mullet 3.2.2.2.2.2
              23 December 2017 at 12:02 pm

              Again wrong large swathes of the bible are based on historical record – embellished no doubt with religousity but to write it all off as myth is very narrow minded indeed.

              • SPC …
                23 December 2017 at 12:11 pm

                The bible is posed as the history of God’s relationship with man, ultimately with the covenant nation people (old and new, a father and son succession within the Israeli story).

                One can suspect that the accuracy of the historical record is of secondary importance (which would explain the fantastical lifespans of the “mighty men” of the earlier generations).

                Cynics note this in one of two ways, the Torah as bad religion but even worse as history, or bad history but even worse religion.

                • ropata …
                  23 December 2017 at 12:37 pm

                  U.N., European Union and Pope Criticize Trump’s Jerusalem Announcement

                  Even in Jesus time his followers hoped he would lead a political movement to overthrow the Roman Empire and inaugurate an earthly kingdom. But he told them several times that his kingdom is “not of this world” and to lay aside their swords. He also predicted that the Temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed… a sign that God’s relation to humanity is no longer mediated through a chosen people (Israel) or a priesthood, but directly through spiritual revelation by his grace.

                  In other words, this Jerusalem thing is totally un Christian and is a part of the apocalyptic heresy that the Yanks have invented.

                  • SPC …
                    23 December 2017 at 12:55 pm

                    One could argue that Jesus was trying to save Jews from themselves (rebellion against empire with the sword was futile) as any responsible person would.

                    And yes his insistence that if God was the King of the covenant nation, then God’s kingdom was not of this world, but one of faith.

                    But stiff-necked Jews conflate their worldly ambition with faith in God and thus denied someone like Jesus could be their Messiah, and now most American Christians want Jesus to return in the form that the Jews wanted their Messiah to be – which is why their Christianity and Zionism have merged (albeit they expect Jews to become Christians when this Messiah is revealed to be a returning Jesus). It’s a heresy alright.

                    For mine end time Christian kingdom come on earth religion, without commitment to social and economic justice in (American) democratic government, is barren.

                • Stunned mullet …
                  23 December 2017 at 12:47 pm

                  Larges swathes of the Torah were borrowed from the Babylonian histories and epics, sure many ready religious texts as ‘the word of God’ but to read them as political/religous texts of their time is also a useful exercise.

                  Of course such heresy would get one beaten up in the more religious parts of jerusalem and the middle east and probably sentenced to imprisionment or death in some of the more batshit crazy jurisdictions.

                  • ropata …
                    24 December 2017 at 9:34 pm

                    Correct it is ancient literature transmitted via oral traditions and passed down through countless generations. To read it as a science textbook, or even worse the infallible, inerrant Word of God directly to modern humans is rank idiocy.

                    It is a very human book with some inspired stuff in it. But the Bible itself teaches that (unlike in Islam) God alone is to be worshipped not some musty old book.

  4. Ed 4
    22 December 2017 at 9:17 am

    It is our neighbour.

    • Stunned mullet 4.1
      22 December 2017 at 9:20 am

      So are some of the pacific islands who voted against the resolution and what about Canada who also abstained….you’ll have to take that poster of Justin off your wall for a couple of weeks at least.

      • Ed 4.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 10:09 am

        I agree. Shame on Canada.

        As to some of the Pacific lslands, blackmail would seem to fit the situation.

        ‘According to figures from the U.S. government’s aid agency USAID, in 2016 the United States provided some $13 billion in economic and military assistance to countries in sub-Saharan Africa and $1.6 billion to states in East Asia and Oceania.’

        I’m guessing the Pacific lslands who voted for the resolution have a lot of aid from China.

  5. Andy 5
    22 December 2017 at 9:32 am

    I’m very glad I am British so I don’t need to associate with this odious country

    • The Fairy Godmother 5.1
      22 December 2017 at 9:36 am

      I too am glad that I am not an American citizen. It would be dreadful to be a citizen of such an odious country.

      • Stunned mullet 5.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 9:37 am

        Any other odious countries you’re glad not to be a citizen of or are you reserving your bountiful ire for the USA ?

      • Andy 5.1.2
        22 December 2017 at 9:38 am

        I actually met an American woman the other night who said she pretended to be Canadian because of Trump

        I didn’t pursue the conversation, perhaps wondering why an ISIS hugging airhead is more appealing to her.

        Maybe it’s just self-hatred, a common trait amongst the left

        [you look like you are gearing up to troll or flame. I see you’ve been previously moderated for trolling (when you were complaining about people being here to insult people with different opinions to themselves. Hypocrisy much?)

        Have a read of the Policy, have a think about where you are commenting, and try and add something to the political debate without being an arsehole. RWers are welcome here but you have to bring something to the table that doesn’t cause problems for the site or get too much moderator attention. – weka]

      • The Fairy Godmother 5.1.3
        22 December 2017 at 10:04 am

        Andy’s comment was unclear he could have been referring to New Zealand although I hoped to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was not an odious person.

        • ropata 5.1.3.1
          22 December 2017 at 1:44 pm

          Nahh he was attempting to insult Canadian PM Justin Trudeau. Andy is angry because he met an American who isn’t a beer-swilling trigger-happy Trump-head.

          All the Americans I’ve met in NZ are the more civilised type.

          You do realise “Team America World Police” is satire right Andy?

    • Stunned mullet 5.2
      22 December 2017 at 9:36 am

      Vindaloo and Guinness ?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.3
      22 December 2017 at 10:26 am

      Britain voted for the resolution. Oops. 😆

    • Anne 5.4
      22 December 2017 at 6:43 pm

      I’m very glad you are British too so I don’t have to feel ashamed that such an odious person with such odious views might actually be a fellow NZer.

  6. francesca 6
    22 December 2017 at 9:33 am

    kowtow, not cowtow.
    From the Chinese koutou…an act of genuflection.
    But I get your meaning.
    Trump said, we spend billions, then they vote against us. With Trump,
    there’s no fine and noble posturing, he lays the American Empire wide open so its true nature is there to see.

    [Thanks will change. I thought it did not look right … – MS]

    • tracey 6.1
      22 December 2017 at 10:35 am

      Imagine if China said to trump “If you don’t vote with us we will call up our debt” 🙂

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 1:22 pm

        That’d actually be great. The world would quickly find out just how much those US$ are actually worth.

        Thing is, I’m pretty sure China knows that and so doesn’t use it. It benefits them for the US$ to be artificially high and still considered the worlds Reserve Currency. Them calling in that debt would very rapidly reverse both those things.

  7. Cinny 7
    22 December 2017 at 9:58 am

    Have been following this closely via Al Jazeera who have been screening parts of it live, including speeches made at the UN. So many countries are mega pissed off at trumps monetary threats, likening it to buying their silence. Their democracy is not for sale, so many have had enough of the bullying of ‘Murcia, it’s wonderful they are standing up for what is right, kudos to them.

    Aussie and Canada both abstained !!! Full list of countries votes ..
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/jerusalem-resolution-country-voted-171221180116873.html

    Nice distraction trump has provided while lowering corporate tax rates from 35% down to 21%

  8. mary_a 8
    22 December 2017 at 10:06 am

    Well done Jacinda. Well done the Labour led coalition government. Well done NZ. An action we should be proud of.

    Big thumbs down to Canada and in particular Australia for abstaining. And in the meantime, Trump threatens those nations who had the guts to stand up for principle instead of money.

    • Ed 8.1
      22 December 2017 at 10:11 am

      Made me proud to be a New Zealander today.
      If that weasel Key has been in charge, he would have been flying round the world acting for Trump’s America.

      • srylands 8.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 4:08 pm

        Get fucked

      • red-blooded 8.1.2
        22 December 2017 at 4:55 pm

        Actually, I don’t think Key would have promoted or supported the US position. Remember that we put a proposal to the UN Security Council condemning the Israeli settlements in occupied territory in January. That would have been developed on Key’s watch.

        Of course, at that stage NZ was working with US (Obama’s) approval. I guess it’s possible that under Key we would have abstained, but I don’t think we would have stepped away from the vast majority of countries with whom we like to compare ourselves. Even if he was just being pragmatic, Key would have known that that wouldn’t play well at home.

      • mary_a 8.1.3
        22 December 2017 at 5:43 pm

        Spot on there Ed (8.1). Had he still been PM, Key would have been brown nosing Trump left right and centre, particularly so on the Jerusalem issue, given Key’s support of Zionism.

    • Ed 8.2
      22 December 2017 at 10:13 am

      Proud to be a New Zealander today.

      Unlike all those days when Key acted as a goon for American interests. Had he still been in charge, he would have been pimping for Trump.

  9. tracey 9
    22 December 2017 at 10:37 am

    In the meantime, and more scary are the appointments Trump is making to the US Supreme Court who will do far more damage than he and for a much longer period of time.

    • Sabine 9.1
      22 December 2017 at 11:13 am

      Oh well that is only ‘domestic’ politics and will mainly affect women, children and people of colour and thus its ok.
      Now lets speak some more of the economic anxiety of well to do white men and women. 🙂

  10. Roger 10
    22 December 2017 at 1:21 pm

    Israel is the only democracy in the region and examine if you will the list of those who support the opposition – many of them decidedly undemocratic. What a sad day for New Zealand to have to stand with such a ghastly lot. Shame on this government of losers.

    • Ed 10.1
      22 December 2017 at 1:24 pm

      That was intended to generate a vitriolic response, wasn’t it?
      Very very dull.

      • Incognito 10.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 1:32 pm

        Well, it is not very often we see democracy in action on a global scale despite, or in spite of, the ‘Leader of the Free World’ holding a gun to nations’ heads. No wonder that people get confused 😉

        Democracy seems to mean different things to different people and it has taken a very subjective and context-laden meaning …

        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 5:32 pm

          Democracy seems to mean different things to different people and it has taken a very subjective and context-laden meaning …

          For the RWNJs democracy is everything going the way that they want it to go. Everything else is a dictatorial, left-wing con-job.

      • Ross 10.1.2
        22 December 2017 at 1:37 pm

        Yes, Ed, right wing trolls continue to disappoint. I blame Charter Schools.

      • Roger 10.1.3
        22 December 2017 at 2:30 pm

        Very , very dull is your idea of an argument?

        • Ed 10.1.3.1
          22 December 2017 at 2:35 pm

          To an idiot like yourself, yes. And given your lack of reply to all the other respondents which have tried to reason with you, I’d say I’ve picked the right route.
          You’re just a fool wanting a reaction.

        • red-blooded 10.1.3.2
          22 December 2017 at 4:59 pm

          Roger, the vast majority of democracies voted against the US, or made their opposition plain by refusing to endorse the proposal (ie, abstaining). I assume you know this.

          • Ed 10.1.3.2.1
            22 December 2017 at 5:03 pm

            Roger does not want to debate the topic.
            He sent this message out 4 hours ago and so far has only replied to me.
            And I made no attempt to reason with him.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.2
      22 December 2017 at 1:32 pm

      Being a democracy doesn’t give it a pass for it’s crimes against humanity and the world.

    • Carolyn_Nth 10.3
      22 December 2017 at 1:43 pm

      And many that voted for the resolution are democracies:

      Austria, Belgium, Botswana, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, India, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, United Kingdom
      Along with several undemocratic countries.

      Meanwhile: against includes:
      Guatemala, Honduras, Israel plus others

      And abstainers include:
      Equatorial Guinea, Rwanda, Uganda, plus many democratic nations

      So, basically it’s more about political allegiances for other reasons other than being representative democracies.

      • Incognito 10.3.1
        22 December 2017 at 2:09 pm

        I agree.

        I think the ‘reasoning’ is that a so-called undemocratic country participating in a democratic vote makes the vote undemocratic or something …

        In other words, things are either black or white, in a simplistic view of the world.

      • D'Esterre 10.3.2
        24 December 2017 at 10:53 pm

        Carolyn_Nth: “And many that voted for the resolution are democracies”

        You omitted Russia from that list. Russia is a democracy. If you believe otherwise, either you haven’t been paying attention, or you’ve been listening to propaganda.

    • SPC 10.4
      22 December 2017 at 1:44 pm

      National is not saying it would have voted differently.

      We are bi-partisan on foreign policy, remember that UNSC Resolution we co-sponsored?

    • Psycho Milt 10.5
      22 December 2017 at 1:55 pm

      What a sad day for New Zealand to have to stand with such a ghastly lot.

      The overwhelming majority of the UN is a “ghastly lot?” It’s hard to picture most of them as being worse than the current governments of Israel and the USA, which are appalling by any standards.

      • Stunned mullet 10.5.1
        22 December 2017 at 2:36 pm

        Really ? while i’m no fan of the USA or israeli governments they’re hardly amongst the foulest on the planet.

        • Macro 10.5.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 3:37 pm

          Well I suggest you pack you bags and go and live there.
          The idiot who just boasted of his big wonderful christmas present – $15m to himself at least – has just ignored the health of 2 million poor children in his country who are now without health benefits. The 1% will accumulate 80% of the tax cuts which will exacerbate one of the most unequal societies in the world even more so. When an interviewer asked a panel of corporate CEO’s if they would be increasing the number of employees following the drop in tax rates, not one indicated they would.

          • Stunned mullet 10.5.1.1.1
            22 December 2017 at 4:54 pm

            Ah the deluded hatred and vitriol of the self appointed ideologically pure it’s a thing to behold.

            • Ed 10.5.1.1.1.1
              22 December 2017 at 4:56 pm

              Or go to Somalia.
              Their tax rates are really low, you know.

            • Macro 10.5.1.1.1.2
              22 December 2017 at 5:20 pm

              I can assure you that as far as purity goes my ideology is very tarnished – just ask Bill, and Ed, but I cannot say the same for yours.
              No doubt you would be more happy to accept the assurances of a deranged narcissistic, than the reasoned judgement of the UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights.
              https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/15/america-un-extreme-poverty-trump-republicans

              • Stunned Mullet …
                22 December 2017 at 6:21 pm

                I guess you missed the bit where i said.. “i’m no fan of the USA or israeli governments”

                But I’d certainly live in either or those two countries even with the current flawed governments in preference to a large number of others around the world such as Ed’s suggestion of Somalia.

        • Draco T Bastard 10.5.1.2
          22 December 2017 at 9:02 pm

          They are certainly within the realm of the foulest on the planet.

          • ropata 10.5.1.2.1
            22 December 2017 at 9:07 pm

            And they are both working hard to befoul the rest of the planet with their corporate pillaging and imperial ambitions.

    • Cinny 10.6
      22 December 2017 at 2:18 pm

      Roger, the NZ Government are made up of winners, because that’s what the majority voted for, the losers are those not in government. Your narrative makes you look like a sore loser, besides, didn’t national MP murray mccully lead the charge against Israel at the UN?

      Democracy in Israel is a charade, democracy is freedom of speech, democracy is not invading/occupying another country/territory, democracy is not shutting down news networks that question the government, democracy is allowing everyone of voting age to vote whether they are Jewish, Palestinian, Arab etc. Democracy is not valuing a white jew over a black jew. Democracy is inclusion, there for, democracy in Israel is a charade.

    • spikeyboy 10.7
      22 December 2017 at 3:40 pm

      That would be like calling apartheid South Africa a democracy. Only 1 in 7 Palestinians get to vote. None in the West Bank or Gaza although Israeli “settlers” do.

      https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20150311-10-facts-about-israels-elections-and-the-palestinian-vote/

      Iran is in the Middle East and has elections as does Lebanon. Syria used to and will agaun in the future. Allthese elections are at least as valid as those conducted in an apartheid state that ignores international law

    • Foreign waka 10.8
      23 December 2017 at 7:30 pm

      A bit of honesty has never hurt in a conversation where true progress is sought. The issue of the right to exist with dignity is universal and no side taking will excuse any atrocities against any group of people, regardless who they are.
      And to this end and with a conscientious mind of the implications of making Jerusalem the center of Israel the NZ government has shown chutzpa.

  11. SPC 11
    22 December 2017 at 1:42 pm

    One could argue that China building fake islands in the sea to acquire territory off nations to its south is giving the fingers to the UN (collective security of nations) but given it

    1. has a UNSC veto
    2. would block trade access in retaliation
    3. would stop aid in retaliation

    do not expect to see action in the UN against them, not in the UNSC, or the General Assembly.

    The USA is not unique in being an arsehole and a bully.

    • The Fairy Godmother 11.1
      22 December 2017 at 3:07 pm

      and? This post is about Israel and US bullying. You should put something in open mike about Chinese fake Islands if it so important to you..

    • SPC 11.2
      22 December 2017 at 3:25 pm

      The wider topic is nations that act in breach of UN international law (steal/annex territory) and think they can get away with it because they have UNSC veto power to do so.

      Thus the recourse to the General Assembly to hold them to account in this case, but no one has dared in the case of China.

    • Macro 11.3
      22 December 2017 at 3:40 pm

      Whatever!

      whataboutism is not actually a valid argument.

      • SPC 11.3.1
        22 December 2017 at 3:43 pm

        It is when it speaks to the principle at hand. Either one has a principled position, or one plays the selective morality game.

        Either nations can rely on the UN for collective security for their territorial sovereignty, or they cannot.

        • Macro 11.3.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 5:11 pm

          As a qualified logician I can assure it it is not, and never has been.
          But don’t just take my word for it:
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

          • SPC 11.3.1.1.1
            22 December 2017 at 5:14 pm

            Yeah right. Consistency of principle is not whataboutism.

            • Macro 11.3.1.1.1.1
              22 December 2017 at 5:28 pm

              Just reading several of your comments on this topic was enough to see that your comment on China’s abuse of the rocks in the China Sea was not about consistency – it was pure and simple whatboutism.
              And the UN’s stance on the China Sea is just as principled as it stance on the need to respect all interests wrt Jerusalem.

              • SPC …
                22 December 2017 at 5:35 pm

                The UN has no stance until there is a General Assembly position – China has a UNSC veto.

                • Macro …
                  22 December 2017 at 9:12 pm

                  United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

                  • SPC …
                    22 December 2017 at 9:29 pm

                    Sure.

                    But that will require some solid backing to the nations in the region given China’s reluctance to accept UNCLOS authority.

                    “Unlike previous territorial disputes put before the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea or International Court of Justice in The Hague, this tribunal did not adjudicate on sovereignty. That would have required both parties’ agreement. Furthermore, China’s reservations after ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) against compulsory dispute settlement under the Convention being binding effectively precluded such a direct approach. The Philippines was able to seek arbitration by focusing its case on the legal status of disputed maritime features, rather than a determination on who owns what.”

                    https://www.cfr.org/councilofcouncils/global_memos/p38227

    • red-blooded 11.4
      22 December 2017 at 5:08 pm

      SPC, what do you want the UN to do about the Chinese islands? They’ve tried to pass motions condemning them and, as you’ve pointed out, China had blocked them. That’s a result of the (flawed) structure of the UN, but merely bringing the resolutions to the table is a way of making a statement to China.

      Let’s remember that most UN resolutions are basically just position statements – a form of moral pressure. The various resolutions passed against Israel haven’t changed anything because Israel has ignored them. If it had the power to, it would have blocked them, just as China did. Both of these countries have had feedback from the UN about their actions, just in different forms.

      • SPC 11.4.1
        22 December 2017 at 5:21 pm

        Sure, all that nations can do is maintain the collective security position.

        In these two cases its complicated by the lack of recognition for the Palestine state and China not actively taking and occupying territory, but claiming it by creating fake islands in the sea.

        And with China its own veto, rather than Israel’s religious vassal providing one.

        In the case of Israel, Arab and some other Moslem nations are prepared to take it to the General Assembly where there is no veto, but not in the case of China. That is one further step that the UN can take.

  12. Sanctuary 12
    22 December 2017 at 3:08 pm

    Farrar’s hysterics is proof positive as to the power of cultural boycotts. Let’s remember white South Africans only realised the game was up when they saw the battles on the streets of NZ over a rugby tour (effectively a cultural exchange).

    The irony is that such is the power of a Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement – a power Farrar effectively acknowledges – change can forced without the need for war. You’d think anyone who loves Israel and wants a just peace would therefore support the BDS movement, because the alternative is war.

    • SPC 12.1
      22 December 2017 at 3:27 pm

      Yeah right. The Cavaliers tour was 5 years later. South African policy only changed when the Cold War ended.

      What change in the world would induce a rethink in the Israeli policy is hard to identify.

      • Macro 12.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 3:42 pm

        A reduction in the massive amount of money flowing into the country from the US might be a start.

        • SPC 12.1.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 3:46 pm

          It would be, but the amount is not that large and is increasingly less important to Israel as a proportion of their GDP (and since their discovery of significant oil and gas fields).

          Recognition of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital (on 67 borders) is the more bold step.

          • Andy 12.1.1.1.1
            22 December 2017 at 4:14 pm

            It would be a bold step, since it would result in the destruction of the State of Israel, which of course is the entire agenda of the so-called “two state solution”

            • SPC 12.1.1.1.1.1
              22 December 2017 at 10:36 pm

              Why did Israel

              1. establish itself on the premise of the UN partition plan for two states?
              2. offer a two state settlement in 2000 and remain officially committed to a two state peace process?

          • Macro 12.1.1.1.2
            22 December 2017 at 4:55 pm

            Bull shit
            Last year the two countries just signed a new military-aid deal—the biggest pledge of its kind in American history. In Sep 2016 the US and Israel signed a Memorandum of Understanding, worth $38 billion over the course of a decade, an increase of roughly 27 percent on the money pledged in the last agreement, which was signed in 2007.

            • SPC 12.1.1.1.2.1
              22 December 2017 at 5:05 pm

              Stop lying.

              Not the biggest in real terms and smaller than ever to Israeli GDP.

              It’s been around $3Bpa for decades. This at $3.8B pa represents a fairly slow rate of increase – even more so when one realises the increase in cost of weaponry is high and this is just a subsidy of the US military industrial complex posed as “foreign” aid.

          • Macro 12.1.1.1.3
            22 December 2017 at 5:03 pm

            As for the gas field!
            Well it aint going nowhere fast.
            https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Israels-Game-Changing-Gas-Discovery-Dealt-Another-Blow.html
            And the oil field in the Golan Heights………
            You know that is Israeli occupied territory.
            So strictly speaking…
            Well it’s not theirs to have.
            https://journal-neo.org/2017/03/30/golan-heights-israel-oil-and-trump/
            And you might notice that the US have their dirty little fingers in both of these pies

            • SPC 12.1.1.1.3.1
              22 December 2017 at 5:11 pm

              June 2016 … (old news). There have been developments in the Leviathon gas field story since then.

              • red-blooded …
                22 December 2017 at 5:30 pm

                There have been developments in the Leviathon gas field story since then.

                And yet you don’t link to any?

                From what I can see, the gas field is being developed, but it’s worth noting that the largest stockholder is a US company – Texas-based Noble Energy (39.7%). So, not exactly independent from the US, then.

                • SPC …
                  22 December 2017 at 5:36 pm

                  So it is going forward, somewhere – the June 2016 link inferred otherwise.

                  • Macro …
                    22 December 2017 at 10:29 pm

                    Noble posted a $1.5B loss for the second quarter in Aug this year. They are attempting to develop the field on the cheap. There is still no gas well and the earliest drilling is hoped to be May next year – if the latest arrangement works out. But don’t hold your breathe.

      • left_forward 12.1.2
        22 December 2017 at 3:52 pm

        Cavaliers, blah, blah, blah… Cold War, blah, blah, blah…
        Whatever.

        Read Sanctuary again with open eyes!

        • SPC 12.1.2.1
          22 December 2017 at 4:01 pm

          Cuba survived decades despite sanctions that were much worse than will ever be applied against Israel (and while being developed Israel would have time to adjust).

          • left_forward 12.1.2.1.1
            22 December 2017 at 4:16 pm

            So, do you actually have an idea on how to do it, or do you just get a little hit out of smart-arse whataboutism.

            • SPC 12.1.2.1.1.1
              22 December 2017 at 4:26 pm

              If you lift your eyes a little upward, note the suggestion of a UN General Assembly vote to recognise a Palestine state on 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital.

              A firm commitment to the territorial integrity of Palestine, against the acquisition by settlement during occupation and inferred annexation, is required.

              Israel has placed 200,000 people in East Jerusalem alone and more in the surrounding area, and yet more in the wider West Bank and likes to talk of annexing all these areas and swapping other land areas for them – to condition everyone to see all of this as permanent – just as they use the Americans here to claim an undivided Jerusalem to Israel alone.

              Holding the line is required.

  13. One Two 13
    22 December 2017 at 3:26 pm

    The response could have been anticipated and would have been discussed in advance along with other possible responses…

    So the question is…Why did he do it..

    • Stunned mullet 13.1
      22 December 2017 at 4:55 pm

      Ah at last someone’s thinking.

    • Ed 13.2
      22 December 2017 at 5:14 pm

      To provide a smokescreen from his corporate tax cut from 35 too 21% ?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 13.2.1
        22 December 2017 at 5:20 pm

        And feed red meat to his base at the same time.

        That’s assuming the theory that he simply repeats whatever the last person he spoke to says is false.

        If POTUS is a profoundly stupid man (and let’s face it, he has some stiff competition), the more useful question is, who does he listen to?

        • Ed 13.2.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 5:24 pm

          That is a very good question.

          Kind of related to this story…..

          What do you think of this news? Do you think the source is reliable?

          ‘Atlanta – The world’s busiest airport experienced an unprecedented power outage that seemed to defy all of the precautions put in place to prevent it, and during the 11-hour ordeal, internet users noted that only one mysterious plane was allowed to leave the airport.
          Over 1,000 flights were canceled when the Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport lost power around 1 p.m. on Sunday, causing a chaotic situation as thousands of travelers were affected. While Georgia Power claimed that the power outage was the result of a small fire, it left many wondering why the generators and backup systems available to prevent such an emergency were not utilized.
          All flights were grounded during the power outage—or at least that is what the public was told. According to the air traffic website, FlightRadar24, there was at least one flight that landed at the airport right before the power went out and then left in the middle of the ordeal. A Boeing 747, with the tail number 4X-ICB, is a cargo plane that landed in Atlanta from Mexico City at 1 p.m. on Sunday.
          Despite the fact that Atlanta officials claim the next flight did not leave the airport until 12:26 a.m. on Monday, after the power was restored, the records from 4X-ICB show thatit departed from Atlanta at 6:27 p.m. on Sunday—right in the middle of the outage.’

          The plane is operated by CAL Cargo Airlines, a Jewish airline company headquartered in Tel Aviv, Israel. Its fleet consists of just three Boeing 747’s and it claims to transport a variety of cargo, including “controlled pharmaceutical and healthcare products, live animals, dangerous goods, oversize and overweight cargo.”

          http://thefreethoughtproject.com/atlanta-airport-blackout-secret-plane/

          • One Anonymous Bloke 13.2.1.1.1
            22 December 2017 at 5:46 pm

            Let’s say it provides evidence that Mossad are spying. Or that Mossad are spying and there was a power outage at the same time.

            Or that a company that specialises in the transport of perishable goods might seek and be granted leave to depart for completely innocent reasons, and Mossad are spying.

            However, since we know that Mossad are spying anyway, it’s of limited interest to all but the trainspotters.

          • Red 13.2.1.1.2
            22 December 2017 at 7:07 pm

            It was santa Ed doing an emergency Xmas run

        • Ed 13.2.1.2
          22 December 2017 at 5:27 pm

          An attempt to answer your question.

          His base are 50 million evangelicals.

          The disturbing reason why evangelical Christians want Jerusalem to be Israel’s capital

          ‘Just a super quick reminder that Trump’s evangelical supporters want him to declare Jerusalem the capital because they believe it well help advance the literal apocalypse and the second coming of Christ.’

          https://www.indy100.com/article/president-donald-trump-jerusalem-israel-capital-tel-aviv-evangelicals-apocalypse-third-temple-theory-8096596

          https://twitter.com/annamerlan/status/938478985025064960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

          • One Anonymous Bloke 13.2.1.2.1
            22 December 2017 at 5:40 pm

            Yeah I know.

            Whoever he listens to is more than capable of using that to manipulate him, assuming he is a profoundly stupid man.

            • Ed 13.2.1.2.1.1
              22 December 2017 at 5:40 pm

              I think in some ways he is.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                22 December 2017 at 5:48 pm

                I assume he is, so I suspect he is some third thing that hasn’t occurred to me.

                • ropata …
                  22 December 2017 at 9:58 pm

                  Trump’s main influences are Putin and possibly Pence but, as a reality TV star, he’s finely aware of what his audience wants, so he will do anything to stay popular with that market segment.

                  He has no morals and the intellect of a rather lazy child, but is a natural at manipulation and sleaze and telling people what they want to hear.

                  His other motivation is oneupmanship and a primate display of dominance. This also takes the form of enriching himself and his family.

                  A very dangerous and toxic White House, that reflects the sick state of America

        • Macro 13.2.1.3
          22 December 2017 at 9:52 pm

          We know who he listens too..
          Fox News
          Steve Bannon
          Jarrad
          Maybe Ivanka (if she is lucky)
          White House Staff (if they are lucky)
          and that is about it.
          All presentations must include his name and be short.
          He has a 2 pea pod brain. It can only handle 2 peas at any one time. If he is given another, one pea will pop out.

          • srylands 13.2.1.3.1
            22 December 2017 at 9:56 pm

            Get fucked. Go and live in Jerusalem for at least 8 weeks and report back. You are a communist living in the arse end of the world. Commenting about Israel. You know how fucked up you are?

    • SPC 13.3
      22 December 2017 at 5:23 pm

      1. Too pose as a strong man to his base.
      2. To imply that the USA is the means to bless those who support Israel and the means to punish those who oppose Israel.

  14. Moses 14
    22 December 2017 at 6:28 pm

    On the 14 May 1948 Ben Gurion made it clear that if the UN plan to partion Palestine (an area that both Jews and Arabs had inhabited for thousands of years) was rejected by the Arabs (who were preparing for war) then any land that would be won by the new State of Israel would be incorporated into its new boarders.

    Massive Arab armies invaded on the 15 May and the rest is history; they were soundly beaten.

    Some countries (I.e. Egypt) went on to make peace while others (Iran) continue to fund terrorist organisations and vow to see the destruction of Israel.

    Those “bleeding hearts” who like to fly Pslestinian flags and wear keffiyehs, should vent their protests towards those Arab countries who use the Palestinians as their “scape goats” to pursue their own agendas.

    Israel, as mandated by the UN has a right to exist and have a presence in Jerusalem. The current issues stem back to Arab intolerance and violence (1948 war).

    If you want to proclaim a UN win regarding Trumps proposal then the 1948 Declaration of the State of Israel is also a UN win.

  15. Tanz 15
    22 December 2017 at 7:00 pm

    I bet Auntie Helen told her to do this. No mandate either. Sigh. Watch as New Zealand’s blessings become curses. Donald Trump is on the right side of history here, and he has a true mandate. Ardern is so UN biased, and that came through from the start.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1
      22 December 2017 at 7:04 pm

      Obviously you are a foreign affairs expert. That’s how you can assess the arguments so wisely.

      I bet NZLP policy (which is made by Aunty Helen and a couple of other people: look it up*) is to follow UN resolutions and has been since well before the election. Let’s see whose bet pays off shall we?

      *terms and conditions may vary.

  16. Ian 16
    22 December 2017 at 7:06 pm

    Sorry guys. Trump just raised his middle finger to the politically correct regressive organisation called the united nations. The sooner he cuts off their funding and starts charging them rent the better for mankind. Countries like Turkey might have to behave and provide basic human rights to their citizens.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1
      22 December 2017 at 7:14 pm

      All his 5-eyes allies either voted against him or abstained. What a coincidence: he has no mates either!

      • srylands 16.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 8:26 pm

        Get fucked. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. It will be so 1,000 years from now. Israel will use its nuclear weapons on its enemies before it ever concedes otherwise.

      • srylands 16.1.2
        22 December 2017 at 8:34 pm

        Have you even visited Jerusalem? You are an ignorant pig.

        • ropata 16.1.2.1
          22 December 2017 at 9:10 pm

          Have you ever visited reality?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.2.2
          23 December 2017 at 6:57 pm

          I hadn’t picked you for a god-botherer.

          I haven’t visited, no. My partner has though: their enduring memory is of watching a couple at an outdoor cafe (they exchanged a quick kiss) be physically assaulted by a religious fundamentalist citizen.

          All that aside, there must be some reason why not one of the US’s 5-eyes partners voted against the resolution. I suspect if I knew what it was, it still might not explain why you’re packing such a big impotent tanty about it.

          I like watching you throw your toys, S Rylands. Would you kindly hammer your little fists on the desk for me?

    • SPC 16.2
      22 December 2017 at 7:18 pm

      The US is welcome to leave and give up their veto, and the UN to take its jobs from New York. This impacts on a wider group of organisations than you probably realise.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.1
        22 December 2017 at 7:21 pm

        Isn’t that what evil George Soros has been plotting all along? Or is that the HAARP cabal: I get so confused.

        Minnie Mouse is Mickey’s fiancé…

        • SPC 16.2.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 7:26 pm

          It’s Mickey and Minnie alright – they attack what they want to control whether it’s the US government or the UN, a bit like a bully with a woman.

    • ropata 16.3
      22 December 2017 at 11:04 pm

      Because the USA is such a shining example of morality and human rights?

      :facepalm:

      You do realise “Team America World Police” is satire?

  17. Tanz 17
    22 December 2017 at 7:09 pm

    Vote Ardern, get Helen. Yes, the UN is corrupt and venal and New Zealand should pull out (no one will have the gumption to, of course, not even the Nats). A huge unelected, unaccountable group of hardline Marxists, trying to push their agenda onto the rest of the world, (Agenda 21 etc), good on Trump, how very brave he is.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1
      22 December 2017 at 7:15 pm

      They are definitely coming to nationalise your farm gulag. Buy lots of guns, Tanz: it’ll be a nice bonus for the rightful owners 😆

    • SPC 17.2
      22 December 2017 at 7:20 pm

      Agenda 21 is a global action plan for sustainable development into the 21st century. … For wealthy nations, achieving sustainable development means adopting and implementing policies concerning issues such as recycling, energy efficiency, conservation and rehabilitation of damaged landscapes.

    • ropata 17.3
      22 December 2017 at 11:25 pm

      Too much infowars rots the brain.

  18. Ian 18
    22 December 2017 at 7:33 pm

    Jacinda hasn’t got the horse power, to take on rural NZ.She is all mouth and teeth. The anti dairy farmer fake news onslaught in the left wing media hasn’t been so slow in 10 years.
    It’s tough work governing a country,especially tough if your people are unprepared and are the D team.
    A bit worried about Kelvin Davis and his catch and release aspirations ,but Kelvin seems to have gone fishing.
    Nothing wrong with Church in the morning and target practise after lunch on a Sunday.

    • Koff 18.1
      22 December 2017 at 7:38 pm

      Totally lost me. You haven’t been sniffing fertiliser, have you?

    • Ad 18.2
      22 December 2017 at 8:40 pm

      You’ll take a while to get used to government with clarity of purpose, principles, speed, and full transformational effect.

      Because that is what you have with Prime Minister Ardern.

      Unlike the National government of 9 years under Key and English, who did the bare minimum – and fucked that up as well.

      Get used to using that phrase Prime Minister Ardern.

      • ropata 18.2.1
        22 December 2017 at 9:18 pm

        +1 Ardern has the potential for a good 3 terms, possibly more. A gifted and principled politician.

        The new government shows up the Nats for what they are: a dishonest, incompetent rabble.

    • ropata 18.3
      22 December 2017 at 9:14 pm

      Bwahaha, rural NZ is the rump of the electorate, increasingly irrelevant and stuck in the past. Labour might as well ignore the uncouth country louts. They have a habit of contempt for the law, the environment, and exploiting workers.

      Rural NZ needs a kick up the arse.

  19. timeforacupoftea 19
    22 December 2017 at 7:42 pm

    Wow !
    First time ever that the United Nations have ever done anything.
    Thank you America you woke the hopeless up.

  20. Tanz 20
    22 December 2017 at 8:49 pm

    To think we were once allies of the US and now that has been trampled upon. Yes, Ardern is an utter lightweight, but someone is pulling the strings. No mandate. This will be a huge vote loser. Lots of guns indeed. I would rather paint and meditate.

    God save New Zealand, our govt has turned traitor. Not my PM, and not my vote.

    • ropata 20.1
      22 December 2017 at 9:02 pm

      God has saved NZ already, by having an independent foreign policy, not subject to the whims of a declining superpower.

      The only treachery here is your supine attitude to the orange buffoon.

      I’m so glad we didn’t follow the US/UK merchants of death into their war crime in Iraq.

    • Grey Area 20.2
      22 December 2017 at 9:06 pm

      Yawn.

    • Incognito 20.3
      22 December 2017 at 10:30 pm

      God save New Zealand, our govt has turned traitor. Not my PM, and not my vote. [my bold]

      Spot the contradictory language – I’ve added emphasis to make it easier.

      You consistently demonstrate that you don’t think through your comments – taking the piss, more likely – and pretend to not understand what it means to live in a democracy.

  21. Matthew Whitehead 21
    22 December 2017 at 9:30 pm

    BTW, Lorde has responded on Twitter thanking people for bringing up the issue of Israel and the BDS movement, and that she is considering her options. It’s not an immediate backdown just yet, but it could turn into one.

  22. Ed 22
    22 December 2017 at 10:17 pm

    Anyone wearying of sryland’s manner today?
    He seems to be telling everyone to ******

    • srylands 22.1
      22 December 2017 at 10:20 pm

      Get fucked.. My manner is fuelled by your antisemitism. And your attack on the holy city of Jerusalem. The eternal capital of Israel.

      So you can get fucked sideways.

      • Ed 22.1.1
        22 December 2017 at 10:23 pm

        I think you have said that to 15 people today.
        I thinking your swearing may be fuelled by alcohol.

        • srylands 22.1.1.1
          22 December 2017 at 10:24 pm

          I don’t drink. Or use any recreational drugs.

          My swearing is due to my refusal to tolerate attacks on Israel.

          And you can get fucked. Accusing me of consuming alcohol.

          • Ed 22.1.1.1.1
            22 December 2017 at 10:24 pm

            Just swear a lot.

            • McFlock 22.1.1.1.1.1
              22 December 2017 at 10:54 pm

              lol can you imagine if spylands were drunk? At least they’d have an excuse…

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                23 December 2017 at 7:38 pm

                Drunk on purest Rand. Apart from the whole ‘bludging taxpayers’ cash for sophistry’ thing.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  23 December 2017 at 8:55 pm

                  And a deep, deep draft of Old Testament fuckwittery. “The holy city of Jerusalem, eternal capital of Israel” is for the kind of creeps featured in The Handmaid’s Tale – it would be nice to imagine srylands’ account’s been hijacked by a religio-fascist nutbar, but sadly that’s unlikely to be the case. I guess one extremist ideology goes with another.

          • ropata 22.1.1.1.2
            22 December 2017 at 10:51 pm

            Take your meds

      • adam 22.1.2
        23 December 2017 at 3:27 am

        srylands your attacks just trivializing the meaning of antisemitism to the point whereby any criticism of the state of israel is deflected under the guise of antisemitism.

        That avoids the political and cultural anti semitism which exists in this country.

        The treatment of African Jews by the state of israel is atrocious, indeed it would appear that some form of racism is playing a part. If you look how arab jews are treated, a pattern gets formed. So the zionism which underpinned israel is a european based one – even by it’s own measurements, questions need to be asked about israel.

        The one people are asking now, why is israel creating conflict over the holy city of Jerusalem? It’s a city which means nothing, and everything, you should know that.

      • mary_a 22.1.3
        23 December 2017 at 5:54 pm

        So in your opinion Srylands (22.1), anyone who challenges the brutal actions of Israel, is an anti-semite and deserves to be sworn at?

        I’d say it’s Israels’ barbaric treatment of Palestinians that gives rise to opposing the Zionist state’s contempt for peace and humanity and endless need for conflict!

        I hope you are able to comprehend those points Srylands. Nothing whatsoever to do with anti-semitism.

  23. the pigman 23
    22 December 2017 at 10:22 pm

    I know DPF is jewish but why is it that he and Slater relentlessly shill for Zionist Israel? I mean Slater literally brags about the paid junkets he gets there on the Israeli govt dime

    This is an interesting thread, but much more extreme is the DPF comment thread. So much for raising standards after the whole dirty politics thing!

  24. ropata 24
    22 December 2017 at 11:37 pm

    The Second Coming
    — William Butler Yeats

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

  25. SPC 25
    23 December 2017 at 1:55 pm

    The BBC reports

    “The Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has said he will not accept any US plan for peace with Israel, after it recognised Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

    Washington has for the past few months been drafting a new peace plan, though it has not divulged any details.

    The Palestinian leader reiterated that he no longer accepted the US as a mediator in the peace process with Israel. He also rebuffed a new US framework for peace being developed by President Trump’s Middle East envoy, Jared Kushner, before it has been launched.

    “The United States has proven to be a dishonest mediator in the peace process and we will no longer accept any plan from the United States,” Mr Abbas told a news conference in Paris.

    While the details of the US plan are not known, it has been devised for months and there has been an expectation it will be publicly launched in early 2018.

    The last round of US-brokered peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians collapsed amid acrimony in April 2014.

    Why has this happened now?

    Mr Abbas has been emboldened by the outcome of the vote at the UN, which rejected any changes to the status of Jerusalem.”

    That is giving the middle finger to Trump’s son in law personally, his ME peace envoy – go away and find a real job AND also just happens to end the role of the USA as a mediator in the peace process. This means the UN arranged process will have to be re-evaluated.

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