US brinksmanship takes us all to the edge

Written By: - Date published: 9:23 am, July 27th, 2011 - 45 comments
Categories: Economy, us politics - Tags: , , ,

The Republicans are playing chicken with the world economy over the debt ceiling. They are trying to extract as much as possible in spending cuts and permanently shrink the government by appearing more willing to go over the edge than the Democrats without actually going over. That’s why they have rejected and will continue to reject everything the Dems’ offer until the last possible moment.

The Dems have responded by offering a huge win to the GOP – $2.7 trillion in cuts (some of it pretty wishful thinking) and no tax hikes. This is the most they can cut without cutting core social spending: pensions and Medicare. Now, they’ve got to hold their position and hope the Republicans leap for compromise in time.

The Republicans’ rhetoric remains very hostile and irresponsible. It’s like Nixon’s line that he wanted the Reds to believe he was mad, because that made the possibility he would push the nuclear button much more real, which would mean he could win more concessions over Vietnam. The crazier the Republicans act, the more chance the Dems will crumble and give them the cuts to those core services they really want.

But the Republicans need to be able to leap when the time comes. Their current offer is to lift the debt ceiling in two stages now and in 2012 for maximum political impact, which the Dems won’t accept, but it does include some tax hikes. At the last minute, this is meant to be melded with the Dems offer by the Republican offer being passed through the COP-controlled House and the Dem offer going through the Senate, where they have the majority. These two bills would then be melded together by a joint committee and go through the two legislative chambers.

The problem is, the Tea Partiers, who don’t get the gamesmanship involved and simply refuse to compromise or support any tax increases. They won’t support their own leadership’s offer, meaning it doesn’t have the numbers to get through the House. The Republicans have no offer they can put on the table and they can’t accept the Dems’ one. The GOP has been able to play chicken so hard and win so many concessions because its position has been steeled by the Tea Party zealots, but they now threaten to be lead weights, preventing the GOP from leaping at the last moment.

Many Tea Party congresspeople have stated they will not vote for any increase in the debt ceiling, regardless of what is offered in return. And the rhetoric still coming from the GOP leadership will only make it harder for the zealots to understand the need for compromise at the last minute.

So what’ll happen? I think there’s a very real possibility that no deal will be done, which will unleash all kinds of hell when the US can’t borrow anymore to pay its bills.

Or, the Republicans might split, with the old guard making a deal with the Dems that the Tea Partiers won’t touch. What happens to the Tea party then, does it become irrelevant or does it become even more powerful and overthrow the old guard in 2012? And what if the Dem Left-wing (yes, it does exist) also refuses to play ball?

Whatever happens, a lot of damage has already been done. The rest of the world does not want to be so exposed to politicians that are willing to play such high stakes brinksmanship over what is, let’s not forget, a purely arbitrary and unique debt ceiling. They may lose their credit rating no matter what happens.

The US’s elite is hastening its own decline, as is often the case at the end of an empire.

45 comments on “US brinksmanship takes us all to the edge”

  1. tsmithfield 1

    Whether the republicans are right or not depends on whether borrowing 40 cents in every dollar spent is a good idea, or whether the maxim “when in a hole stop digging” applies.

    • Blighty 1.1

      the argument isn’t over whether reducing the deficit is good or not. It’s how you do it.

      The Republicans created the debt problem with their tax cuts. Now they will accept only spending cuts to fix it.

    • freedom 1.2

      where does this imaginary 40 cents in every dollar come from is the big question?

      The USA has borrowed every single dollar in their economy since the Federal Reserve Act was established in 1911. They have lied to themselves for so long they believe the Fed is somehow connected to their Government and is not a private banking institution. A little reality in this scenario would however be a dangerous thing. If for example the actual level of American debt, reported to be closer to $54 Trillion USD, was known by the public there is the nasty liklihood of revolution.

      Wth all of their Gold Reserves being physically held by China as collateral for over twenty Trillion in loans from the last fifteen-twenty years, there is no reality that the USA has a hope in Hades of securing a non-default position without some serious backroom restructuring of International agreements. This activity will only mean more enslavement for the supposedly free individuals we like to think we are.

      Possibly why there is a (quiet) high alert status in FEMA operations currently being apllied to all US servicemen not on active duty in the current theatres. Special FEMA training events have been held regularly throughout the US over the last two months, mainly involving the post-apocolyptic scenarios of relocating and incacerating civilians, removal and containment of ‘toxic’ dead bodies, and training servicemen in the policing of FEMA camps. Naturally the mainstream media is not really covering these FEMA training events. The media to this day still denies the existence of FEMA camps even when they have been shown actual Government documentation and taken to the location of said camps. ( remember this is the same media that supports the use of Aspartame and denies it is a poison despite the release of a 1975 FDA Investigation which states in plain english that Aspartame is a toxic poison and should not in any circumstances be included in foodstuffs. To date there are over ten thousand foodstuffs on the shelves that contain Aspartame)

      Many believe there is a real and present danger that if default occurs then the standing Emergency orders held by the President will be enacted and a state of Martial Law will be declared. This will be followed, or more likely preceded by a False Flag Terror event that will make 911 look like a NACT bbq after the pinot runs out.

      If you pay attention to the mishmash of press releases from FEMA, the TSA and the DHS, watch the first person commentary on military blogs, on independant news sites, on cable tv reports, you will see a large number of servicemen have been told they are no longer under the jurisdiction of the military but are infact under the control of FEMA and will be untill further notice.

      You can throw whatever conspiracy nut label you want to in my direction. I do not care. I am not going to supply a sea of links because the futility in that action demeans the seriousness of the complexity that exists in the current situation. I am very clear in my mind and heart about what information is valid and believe I have a well tuned nose to the aromas eminating from the sea of dis-info that exists. There is a lot of info out there but it is the blind-eye stay on message vision from the media which offers the greatest support that something very very worrisome is about to go down in the USA. I hope i am so very very wrong, but if the default occurs there is little doubt it means a bad day for all who are not in the bunkers that have been built all over this planet.

      • Lanthanide 1.2.1

        “I am not going to supply a sea of links”

        You can at least link to “first person commentary on military blogs”.

        • freedom 1.2.1.1

          I see no reason to. This subject is too vast in scope and relies on a diverse (interpretative?) knowledge of the generations of lies that have been part of our shared history to be of any worth by highlighting one or two disconnected statements that would only be victim to the destructive and unproductive cyclic discussions that would result.

          Or, taken as an analogy, posting any links to support a statement as broad reaching as i have made above is like taking a segment from an economist’s doctoral thesis and saying look, this proves that the global financial meltdown is attributable to fluctauations in the price of aglets.

          Some times you just have to trust that a glowing red ring on the shiny steel surface is probably hot

          • Lanthanide 1.2.1.1.1

            I’m sorry, but this claim: “watch the first person commentary on military blogs … you will see a large number of servicemen have been told they are no longer under the jurisdiction of the military but are infact under the control of FEMA and will be untill further notice.” is fairly straightforward to verify.

            Either there are military blogs on which people (who claim to be in the military) have stated that they are now under the jurisdiction of FEMA, or there are not.

            Your unwillingness to post links makes me conclude that actually this hasn’t happened.

            “Some times you just have to trust that a glowing red ring on the shiny steel surface is probably hot”

            You don’t even want to show me the shiny steel surface so I can make up my own mind.

            • freedom 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Lanthanide i am not taking the bait, and will not be offended, swayed or dismayed by however you choose to determine that my choice not to submit a link affects the validity of the claims. The media shouts interpretative lies at you every day regarding the lives and deaths of people and i do not recall seeing any efforts by you to bring them to account.

              Of course then comes the cries ‘ as a blog there are different rules because we are mere private people so must explain every item of discussion and the Media are accountable to the ethics of journalism. ‘ ( a line that always gives me a good laugh )

              apologies for pre-empting the next part of this debate but i have stuff to do. You either trust the elite or you don’t. There is no middle ground in their games

              • Lanthanide

                I’m not laying bait, I’m simply asking for links to back up your very simple claim. That’s all. Seems you don’t want to do that, though.

                • freedom

                  see above

                • chris

                  sounds like freedom watched Zeitgeist once and then did an about-face from sanity….

                  • freedom

                    chris,
                    comments like that are a short cut to thinking and frankly they are beneath you.

                    Zeitgeist raises some valid points but has just as many problems.
                    The daily newspapers also have some fact amongst its deceipt.
                    for that matter so does the World According to Garp.

                    Do you really believe i get my info from one source and blindly repeat it. This suggests that you have not been paying attention or you do not have an actual interest in the topics . Instead it expresses someone who merely jumps around reacting to postings rather than responds after giving another’s words due consideration. In the end if it makes you feel better to imagine me as a raving lunatic with no grasp of reality then so be it and i wish you well, though i hope you take a moment and consider the cause and affect of many issues in the world today. Perhaps if you begin to put into practice some of the views you have previoulsy expressed on this site you will find your vision widens a little and the blinkers of conformity are thusly less of a burden.

    • mik e 1.3

      yeah the gop raised the cap 4 times without any hesitation

  2. Bill 2

    If the Democrats idea is to raise taxes to invest money in the economy, then any compromise with the Republicans platform will ensure a policy failure. The two prescriptions are diametrically opposed. Either one or the other course of action needs to be pursued. Mish + mash = crash.

    Which is precisely what happened last time. The Dems compromised, meaninig that their stimulus package was inadequate and the Rep came back and hammered them on its ineffectiveness.

  3. Afewknowthetruth 3

    The political system is under the control of the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Morgans, Warburgs etc., so everything that happenes is exactly what they want to happen. The so-called negotiations and so-called deadlock are just part of the show, with all the major players sticking to the scripts they have been given. At, or shortly after the so-called deadline, a deal will be struck that will suit the agenda of the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Morgans, Warburgs etc. If that agenda is to crash the global economy, that is what will be implemented. However, far more likely is some new scam that will allow present economic arrangements to stagger on for a while longer.

    I presonally believe the elites will keep the thing running until after the 2012 Olympics, After August 2012 anything could happen.

    ‘The US’s elite is hastening its own decline, as is often the case at the end of an empire’

    In the long term that is true. But in the short term everything that will happen will be for the benefit of the elites. After all, during the Great Depression, it was only those in the middle and at the bottom who suffered. Those at the top got richer than ever.

    The US closing down ALL the military bases around the world and ceasing to fight the various phoney wars (including the phoney war on terror) would make a huge contribution to correcting the massive instability that has been building up for decades. But we all know the US is a financial-military-industrial complex geared to the consumption of overseas oil, so the US will continue to fight ideological wars and resource wars until it cannot. And the money-lenders love wars.

    • Lanthanide 3.1

      “I presonally believe the elites will keep the thing running until after the 2012 Olympics, After August 2012 anything could happen.”

      Personally I had the same ideas about the Beijing 2008 olympics (and impending presidential election). And yet here we are.

  4. Policy Parrot 4

    The only other option for the Democrats is to demand that the Republican’s austerity program start within the next few months and weeks. The goal being to make sure that recent policies (the austerity package) is identified by voters as being a House-engineered (and thus Republican) budget.

    So by the time November 2012 comes around, Obama and the Democrats would say – it was Boehner’s plan to cut your Medicare/Medicaid, to reduce your services. And that we weren’t willing to risk a worse situation (a default) than put up with crappy Republican policies for 18 months.

    They’ll have plenty of audio/video self commentary from vulnerable Republican House members on the need for the Boehner package.

    Doesn’t come without some risk – i.e. Democrats seen as too compliant/or even complicit.

  5. Steve Gordon 5

    BREAKING NEWS from The NYTimes… Obama caves in debt talks, 100% spending cuts! – http://t.co/GRt90DY – #debtcrisis

    • freedom 5.1

      memo release to the media puppets:
      and on the next page of the script you will see:
      ; instructions on how to avoid explaining the gory details to the general public by focusing on the
      inability of Obama to control the deficit
      ; options on how to best spin the reductions in troop deployments overseas
      ; the new safety/threat messages from TSA

      cue furry critters drinking sugar-free soda, and go to camera three for footage of a New Jersey mechanic who has built a full scale replica of the Iwa Jima Memorial out of hubcaps and a 54 Chevy

  6. johnm 6

    The Engineered Bankster Crisis To Gut what remains of decency in the U$$$$$$ Not about any real brinkmanship for the World economy at all just another dirty trick to screw their own countrymen-will be avidly followed by Nact,can they learn the same dirty tricks to apply here?

    Michael Hudson of Michael-Hudson.com I believe accurately understands the current U$ charade:Remember The Republicans see recipients of the common good in social security and medicaid as LEECHES feeding of the once healthy REPUBLIC!

    Pushing Crisis: GOP Cries Wolf on Debt Ceiling in Order to Impose Radical Pro-Rich Agenda

    MICHAEL HUDSON: He’s quite right. This is an awful piece of legislation, and it’s too bad that Mr. Obama supports it. But you could see it all coming even before Mr. Obama took office, when he appointed the Deficit Reduction Commission. He appointed opponents of Social Security to the commission: Republican Senator Simpson and Erskine Bowles, who was Clinton’s chief of staff. Obama really believes in trickle-down economics. He believes that Wall Street are job creators, not downsizers and outsourcers and foreclosers. That’s the tragedy of all this.

    Now, how—the question is, how can a Democratic president put forth a Republican program? There has to be a crisis. Now in reality there is no crisis at all. In reality, raising the debt ceiling has been done for a hundred years automatically. There is no connection between raising the debt ceiling and arguing over tax policy. Tax policy takes many years to work out. All of a sudden, Mr. Obama is going along with the charade of saying, “Wait a minute, let’s create a crisis.” As his former manager Rahm Emanuel said, a crisis is too important an opportunity to waste. But Wall Street doesn’t like real crises, so there’s an artificial non-crisis that Obama is treating as a crisis so that he can put forth the recommendations of the Deficit Reduction Commission to get rid of Social Security that he has supported all along. That’s the problem. He believes it.
    They’re pretending it’s a crisis because they have a plan. And the plan is what Mr. Boehner has put forth. Just like after 9/11, the Pentagon pulled out a plan for Iraq’s oil fields, Wall Street has a plan to really clean up now, to really put the class war back in business and get rid of Medicare, get rid of the programs for the poor, and say, “There’s no money for you. We’ve given it all away in the bailouts.”

    MICHAEL HUDSON: What they’re pushing for really isn’t a default on the debt. They’re pushing for a crisis to let Mr. Obama rush through the Republican plan. In order for him to do it, the Republicans have to play good cop, bad cop. They have to have the Tea Party move so far to the right, take a so crazy a position, that Mr. Obama seems reasonable by comparison. And of course he is not reasonable. He’s a Wall Street Democrat, which we used to call Republicans.

    MICHAEL HUDSON: As Mr. Obama’s Deficit Reduction Commission said, we have to get rid of Medicare, we have to get rid of Social Security, put the Social Security funds into the stock market, create a stock market boom, create new business for his—for Wall Street. He believes in trickle-down economics.

    MICHAEL HUDSON: Well, Greece’s should be viewed as a dress rehearsal for the United States The idea is to carve up the government and privatize it, just like Illinois and Chicago and Wisconsin and California are doing. So it’s a dress rehearsal for what’s happening here.

    MICHAEL HUDSON: You’ve seen the protests in Madison, Wisconsin. And in the Greek Parliament Square, in front of the parliament building, there were signs up to say, “We are Wisconsin.” There was a very clear connection they were making that this is a worldwide struggle. What’s happening across the world is an attempt by the financial sector to really make its move and say this is their opportunity for a power grab. And they’re creating this artificial crisis as an opportunity to carve up the public domain and to give themselves enough money. They’re taking the money and running, because they know that unemployment is going up. The game is over. They know that. And the only question is, how much can they take, how fast?

    • the bible tells us not to steal
      it’s there in black and white
      our laws are based upon it too
      do not do wrong – do right

      but somehow since these laws were writ
      we’ve seen the system fail
      but things will change for all the best
      when the bankers go to jail

      when the bankers go to jail my friends
      when the bankers go to jail
      we’ll finally see justice done
      when the bankers go to jail

      when the vampire squid has been deep-fried
      in the slime of Bernank’s words
      when politicians tell the truth
      and not be lying turds

      when “austerity” applies to them
      and fairness does prevail
      we’ll finally see justice done
      and the bankers go to jail

      when the bankers go to jail ee-hah
      when the bankers go to jail
      we’ll all be dancing in the streets
      when the bankers go to jail

      if all was as it ought to be
      when any business fails
      investors take a haircut
      amid their tears and wails

      but in our mean kleptocracy
      that the MSM does hail
      the working man pays all the bills
      and no banker goes to jail

      when the bankers go to jail thank God
      when the bankers go to jail
      the haircuts will be number ones
      when the bankers go to jail

      we’re predators i must admit
      it’s human nature too
      to seek a better living for
      our wives and children too

      but animals we’re not you see
      it not just fine detail
      we keep the law, control ourselves
      and the bankers go to jail

      yes you bankers go to jail you scum
      all you bankers go to jail
      you’ll be some brother’s jail-house bitch
      when you bankers go to jail

      you may think it’s a silly dream
      to think of their demise
      they’re oh so very powerful
      and every banker lies

      but one day soon we’ll overthrow
      and have them by the tail
      we’ll tar and feather all of them
      and send them all to jail

      when the bankers go to jail for good
      when the bankers go to jail
      we’ll hear the bells of freedom ring
      when the bankers go to jail

      by The Peak Oil Poet http://oilcrash.com/articles/poems.htm#new_20110715

    • johnm 6.2

      Further confirmation “The Debt Ceiling Crisis” is just a rotten stinking trick to defraud poor Americans reliant on Social Security and Medicaid. (The Act-nat freak show should read this and learn from the masters!)They and the Business Round Table get their inspiration from this Has Been Nation the U$$$$$$$ !

      Debt Madness Was Always About Killing Social Security

      This phony debt crisis has now passed through the looking glass into the realm where madness reigns. What should have been an uneventful moment in which lawmakers make good on the nation’s contractual obligations has instead been seized upon by Republican hypocrites as a moment to settle ideological scores that have nothing to do with the debt.
      Hypocrites, because their radical free market ideology, and the resulting total deregulation of the financial markets, is what caused the debt to spiral out of control this last decade. That and the wars George W. Bush launched but didn’t have the integrity to responsibly finance. The consequence was a banking bubble and crash leading to a 50 percent run-up of the debt that has nothing to do with the “entitlements” that those same Republicans have always wanted to destroy.
      Refer link http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/07/27-5

      ………………………………………………………………..

      but the issue I have is with the false left-right dichotomy – the Dems and the Reps are two flavors of rancid bologna – without the mustard on the side because it was clawed back by the banks

      the club – senate congress and whitehouse – mostly lawyers and all millionaires couldn’t give a sweet turd about our benefits

      as Paul Craig Roberts has been pointing out for many years – the corporations have been offshoring our jobs for thirtyyears.

      “The US economy has disintegrated, and with it into the abyss plummet the blueprints of neoliberal economists, whose theories about “the free market” have now gone the way of medieval alchemy. No voice has been stronger, no prose more forceful, than that of Paul Craig Roberts in predicting collapse”

      http://www.amazon.ca/How-Economy-Was-Lost-Worlds/dp/1849350078

      the U$ has been de-industrialized according to the rothschild/rockefeller plan for world domination and we are left with nothing – we’re not holding the bag cause there aint no bag to hold – they took that too

      a lot of Americans are learning – the hard way – that the CHUMP CLUB has a few more members than they might have thought

      the elites want to eliminate the social security fund and the medicare fund and like as not with the assistance of Obummer and The Club they are going to get it

      Americans have lost the will to fight back and we are getting “shellacked” as Obummer likes to say

      as the great first nation activist russell means has noted – we are all living on a reservation now in the camp amerika

      http://www.russellmeans.com/

  7. Colonial Viper 7

    Can we make it clear to everyone that whatever happens to the debt ceiling is immaterial?

    You now have credit ratings agencies recommending that the US get rid of its debt ceiling altogether so that it does not limit additional borrowing in future.

    Think about how illogical that is, but that’s the ponzi game writ large being played right now.

    The increasing flood of fiat and debt-backed money in the world now far surpasses what the world resource and energy base can ever actually deliver on. (Sounding like Rusty here haha)

    This game does not have a happy ending. NZD parity with the USD within the next 6-12 months is a bet which can conceivably be won now.

    And gold to US$2000/oz based on investors getting out of their dollar inventories ASAP.

    • Lanthanide 7.1

      I’m thinking my kiwisaver account is going to be negative again after this month :/

    • Bored 7.2

      Debt is owed to somebody!!!!!! Repeat debt is owed to somebody….those who owe owe it to somebody. So whats so bloody hard for all RWNJs / “rational economists” about reaching the conclusion that those who are “owed” must have the cash to be able to loan?

      Next step….if the “owed” have all the cash….why not just tax them rather than take a “loan”?

      • freedom 7.2.1

        Tax the people who designed a system that funnels them all the money ? that’s crazy talk

      • Colonial Viper 7.2.2

        So whats so bloody hard for all RWNJs / “rational economists” about reaching the conclusion that those who are “owed” must have the cash to be able to loan?

        Question 1:

        How did the (privately owned) US Federal Reserve come up with US$16T of cash to loan out to the biggest banks during the GFC?

        (N.B. that sum of cash is more than the total US Government debt)

        🙂

        Question 2:

        the US Government is currently sitting at its US$14.5T debt limit

        Which country is owed most of that debt?

        :mrgreen:

  8. Jum 8

    If I was President Obama I would make an announcement that I was elected to help the people of the United States of America and the only way I can do that in this damaging brinkmanship is to start increasing the amount of social spending and start reducing any support to the moneytraders.

    Every hour on the hour I will reverse a back-down that I have made to appease the greedy, selfish republicans who want to see inequality and cheap desperate labour (just like in New Zealand where Key is also experimenting on how far he can push Kiwis into submission).

    Until the Republicans agree to my package I will continue to reverse any tax cut and core spending concessions and every hour on the hour I will appear in front of my people and tell them what I am doing and show up the republicans for the unpatriotic, disloyal Americans they really are. Their money is their god. God is my judge, not the Republican party and I cannot turn my back on the people who need me to be strong.

    The rest of the world is watching how mature America is as a nation; so far we have humiliated ourselves. I intend to stop that situation as of now.

    In one hour I will reverse the ………. and will ask my fellow Americans to stand by those who are suffering in health and in nutrition because of the Republicans’ selfish discrimination against their own countrywomen and men.

    We profess to be a religious people yet we choose money from the temple lenders to be our god and we turn our backs on the needy by refusing them aid. Shame on us.

  9. Jenny 9


    Whatever the outcome of the debt ceiling controversy – Greek style Austerity is coming to the USA

  10. randal 10

    the freshman republicans who are holding their own country to ransom are basically isolationist thickos. in NZ they call themselves the little people and that they are.

  11. rosy 11

    It’d be funny if it wasn’t so serious….
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jul/27/debt-crisis-republicans-plan-bungle

    The US debt crisis has escalated after Republicans were forced to rewrite their proposal to lift the debt ceiling, because they miscalculated how much the original plan would cut spending.

    In an embarrassing development for John Boehner, the Republican Congress speaker, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) ruled on Tuesday night that his bill would have only cut spending by $850bn (£517bn)over the next decade, not the $1.2tn he had aimed for. Republicans are now racing to rewrite the legislation, and have pushed back a congressional vote on the plan from Wednesday to Thursday at the earliest.

    Although Boehner was already struggling to find support for his package, the delay increases the risk that Washington will fail to agree a deal to raise the debt ceiling before 2 August, when the federal government is expected to run out of money.

  12. alex 12

    A situation as ludicrous as this makes me think we should put all the international financiers, moneylenders, politicians, media pundits and tycoons on an island and let them fight it out among themselves.

    How about Manhatten?

  13. Afewknowthetruth 13

    Waht we are now witnessing is a natural consequence of the greed of individuals and the fraudulent nature of the economic system.

    Don’t imagine the carnage will be resticted to the US and Europe. Austerity is coming to NZ.

    For the moment a lot of ‘hot’ money is arriving here (hence the Kiwi is now 87.55 cents US), but all that does is increase NZ’s long term problems.

  14. thoughts 15

    i read on nymag.com a quote from warren buffet to the effect that he, one of the wealthiest men in the world, pays 16% tax, while his secretary pays 28% and that is just ridiculous. and he is right.

    what i really CANNOT understand is how those tea party idiots can sleep at night. they prey on the poor and uneducated to believe their lies and vote them in, yet they manage to screw them royally at every turn. can they honestly say that what their doing now is right? regardless of where you lie on the political spectrum, it can never be advisable to DROP THE ENTIRE WORLD INTO A RECESSION, kill off any economic growth in your own country and screw the very people who voted for you out of a job for some petty political point scoring? surely noone is that thick? obama is a fool for trying to negotiate with the, hes the POTUS, and he can go EFF YOU ALL and raise the debt ceiling anyway. i sincerely hope he does.

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      Obama is heavily constrained by the kleptocracy/moneytocracy.

      Many, though not all, of the Tea Party types are good honest American folk mislead and manipulated by the Koch Brothers.

      They have great fun turning the poor working class against itself. Some kind of new sport for the megarich.

      Congress have totally sold out to the financial sector. The Bankers Party in the majority and The Other Bankers Party in the minority.

      • Axle 15.1.1

        The difference in NZ is?

        • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1

          The same as that between a Hummer and a Ford Cortina.

          • Axle 15.1.1.1.1

            Yeah. But the Hummer’s insolvent. Our Cortina’s alright, some actual progressive policy on its odometer. The manipulation factor is a worldwide trouble though eh? Seems like a Prague Spring for the Right boys and girls presently, hard to see the US public waking up, ours? Maybe.

            • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1.1.1

              No dunno if most NZ’ers will wake up in time.

              No matter what Govt gets in at the end of the year, net GDP growth per capita over the next decade will be nearly impossible to achieve.

              There are problems coming, including the possibility of a reversion to a limited democracy or neo-feudalism within a 25 year time frame.

  15. mik e 16

    Gareth Morgan said one of the few options left for us would be to print money to bring our dollar down if there is as much of a small downgrading it will be catastrophic for other currencies. including ours .

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      We should be printing our own money anyways, instead of using bank debt based cash.

      (Actually, electronic crediting of KiwiBank accounts. You don’t really use actual printing presses to print money these days. Say a $50 credit for each man woman and child in NZ on Christmas eve. $200M pumped into the NZ economy just like that ).

  16. Colonial Viper 17

    Raise da debt ceiling

    Funny as. For the newbie: ‘make it rain’ = ‘Quantitative Easing’ = printing worthless USD out of thin air to pay for real goods and services.

  17. joe90 18

    Interesting theory.

    Here’s something to keep an eye on: Whether Dems can successfully use the battle over the debt ceiling to drive a wedge between the GOP’s leading business supporters, who understand that not raising it would be catastrophic, and the Tea Party base, which wants to use the debt ceiling fight to force more spending cuts.

    Executives like J.P. Morgan chief executive Jamie Dimon are worried that playing chicken with the debt ceiling could be “catastrophic.” Dems are hoping to use the debt ceiling showdown to divide Republicans between their corporate benefactors, who want the debt ceiling standoff resolved with no fuss, and the Tea Partyers, who are demanding that the GOP leadership use the debt ceiling as a hostage in the push for ever more extreme and draconian spending cuts.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Dimon is talking about his own bonuses and profits to major JP Morgue shareholders, when he says that playing with the debt ceiling could be ‘catastrophic’.

      JPM is long on the dollar and will get crushed in the event of a US default.

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