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US Election Discussion Post 7/11/16

Written By: - Date published: 5:55 am, November 7th, 2016 - 234 comments
Categories: us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

In order to free up Open Mike and Daily Review for other conversations we are asking that all discussion, posting of links etc on the US election go in this daily dedicated thread rather than OM or DR.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

There will continue to be author-written posts on the US election as well, usual rules apply there too.



234 comments on “US Election Discussion Post 7/11/16 ”

  1. Andre 1

    Why Trump’s reaction to the protestor in Reno is yet another reason to be very very afraid of a Trump presidency.


    Especially when compared to how Obama handled a very similar situation just previously. Which Trump just couldn’t help himself but to viciously lie about.


  2. Andre 2

    Is the Libertarian VP candidate Bill Weld actually a closet Clinton supporter?


  3. Manuka AOR 4

    Not before the election, but something President Obama could do, that would help restore faith in his legacy: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/obama-likely-to-defy-media-pleas-for-chelsea-manning-pardon/

    • Manuka AOR 4.1

      Chelsea also wrote this: “I can’t vote. If you can, you must.”

      Even when the incarcerated leave prison, they often return to our communities without the ability to vote. That means the people most affected by our political institutions and processes today often have absolutely have no say in how they are run. This group includes me. In Maryland, my state of residence, for instance, I will not be able vote until the year 2045.

  4. Manuka AOR 5

    US well-knowns (mostly) who are thinking about moving from the US, depending on the election results: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/these-17-celebrities-could-flee-america-if-trump-wins/

    We get (Supreme Court Justice) Ginsburg, Aus gets Streisand. Wouldn’t mind Whoopi.. or Jon Stewart!

  5. Manuka AOR 6

    Injunction lifted on Trump, Stone voter intimidation (they can now go for it)


    • Manuka AOR 6.1

      This is what has now been undone: http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/11/05/federal-judges-emergency-ruling-puts-end-insane-voter-suppression-n-carolina

      (Or am I mixing up two different situations? .. Short on time this a.m.)

      • dukeofurl 6.1.1

        Its a bit confusing:

        “The case, Republican National Committee vs. Democratic National Committee, dealt with a consent decree issued in 1982 that prevents the RNC from engaging in some voter fraud prevention efforts without prior court consent. It specifically said the RNC could not engage in ballot security efforts (later defined in 1987 as “ballot integrity, ballot security or other efforts to prevent or remedy vote fraud,” according to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit opinion), especially in areas where racial or ethnic makeup could be considered a reason for the activities.”
        “In deciding the case, which stems from a 2008 lawsuit brought by the DNC, the district court clarified ballot security efforts as “any program aimed at combating voter fraud by preventing potential voters from registering to vote or casting a ballot,” and upheld the consent decree while adding a Dec. 1, 2017, expiration date.”

        So they have been under a long time court order preventing voter intimidation. But the recent cases are probably an attempt to show breaches of the court order which would allow it to be extended for 8 more years.
        There is also the confusion about which areas are covered, ( 3rd Circuit only covers Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey)

        • Manuka AOR

          I can see it varies considerably from State to State. More on it here, ths time, Arizona: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/sheriff-joe-arpaio-arizona-voter-intimidation-ethnic-profiling-latinos

          • Noworries

            Oh, say can you see
            By the dawns early light
            What so proudly we hailed
            At the terrorists gleaming?
            Who’s broad striped and bright stars
            Through the perilous fight
            O’er the ramparts we watched
            Were so gallantly streaming?
            And the rocket’s red glare!
            Airplanes bursting in air!
            Gave proof through the night
            That our flag was not there
            Oh, say does that star spangled banner yet wave
            O’er the land of Hil-ar-ee
            And the home of the slaves?

        • Andre

          It appears Pennsylvania’s laws make it unusually easy for someone to mess up voting.


          • dukeofurl

            Plus in Nevada, Trump has been saying they keep ( early) polling places open longer which was supposed to be ‘rigged’

            Except it isnt”
            “Thus, when on Friday the lines for early voting in Nevada were so long as to require keeping the polls open until after the scheduled closing hour, voting continued — as required by this law — until all those waiting in line at closing time were able to cast their ballots.

            Not sure of the law in other states, but this is bound to another of Trumps lies he spreads so easily

            As for the voter suppression court cases:

            “Much has been made of the Democrats’ losing a number of cases they have filed to try to get Trump, the RNC and Roger Stone to be barred from acts of voter intimidation.

            But, as I wrote yesterday regarding the loss in the DNC v. RNC case:

            This is, of course, a loss for the DNC, but not really a complete one. Indeed, as I argued in Slate,this suit and the other suits around the country have served as information-forcing devices to get Republicans and the Trump campaign to reveal their plans surrounding “ballot security,” and to get assurances that the campaigns are taking steps to prevent voter intimidation on election day.

  6. Manuka AOR 7

    One more: Al Franken, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he expects hearings on the “troubling” and “rogue” conduct within the FBI.

    Franken argued that it is “more troubling” that there may be “rogue elements within the FBI” leaking information about the case, which has dominated news cycles to the chagrin of Democrats and the Clinton campaign. The senator didn’t directly connect Comey to these elements but did suggest there might be a failure of leadership on his part.
    Franken, a member of the Judiciary Committee, said he is “sure” that Comey will come before the panel. “He should answer questions about this, and he should be able to control the FBI,” he said.


    • I see Franken has also pointed out the anti-Semitic dog whistling in Trump’s final attack ad. The bigots’ candidate is trying to subtly assert that the Jews are responsible for all that corruption he wants to be part of, sorry, get rid of.


      • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

        This is about the global bankster cartel which is sucking manufacturing, money and resources of the 0.1%’er world of the FIRE economy.

        Obvious for everyone to see now.

        And Hillary Clinton is a central cog in that machine.

        Time to get rid of it.

        • Chooky

          +100 CV

        • lprent

          Ah – it is not “obvious” to me, and I suspect that I read far more deeply and widely on that subject than you do (that doesn’t look to be hard).

          The constraints placed on banks since 2008 are now quite considerable, especially when it comes to having asset ratios and being involved in business areas outside of their core businesses.

          A lot of the constraints that were removed in the decades after the 1970s are now back in place albeit in a different form.

          In the US, the biggest financial risk at present appears to be the lax house mortgage lending policies by Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. They are currently backing a ever higher portion of the house mortgages in the US. That is currently storing up a whole pile of shonky debt for the federal government.

          If I had to bet, I’d say that is is the most likely source of the next financial failure.

          Perhaps you should listen less to idiotic propaganda and do some more study?

          • Colonial Viper

            Are you talking about Dodd-Frank?

            What on earth do you think has been effective about Dodd Frank?

          • One Two

            Not sure why you would throw insults about someone’s lack of depth in reading while promoting your own ‘awesomeness’…even if you did happen to know what you’re talking about…

            The mortgage debt is not the primary issue, nor are the safeguards you refer to, back in place….can’t imagine what you read to draw such a conclusion

            Which forms of protections are back in place as you see it?

            • Colonial Viper

              Infinite backstopping for the shadow banking sector from the Federal Reserve. Win win. Gagh.

              • One Two

                That’s literally the extent of the ‘protection’. Nothing has changed in a meaningful way

                Otherwise high level bankers would have been prosecuted by the SEC (joke) and jailed en masse

                Instead the bubbles kept inflating because there are no ‘safeguards’

                • Colonial Viper

                  lprent tells me that good safeguards on US banks and banksters are now in place. Which along with you, I doubt very much.

                  Especially with an outfit like Citibank having a big say on Obama’s Cabinet and sub cabinet level appointments.

                  Rotten to the core.

                  • One Two

                    Anyone who does not work in regulatory and compliance at a major bank has little to no idea what it is about or the so called safeguards

                    Let alone how they are implemented and how they are circumvented

                    I doubt Lprent works or has worked in that particular sector capacity

                    [lprent: Nearest I ever got to banks was writing some code for eftpos machines for an export market. Working between the constraints of the standards was somewhat limiting. However I do spend quite a lot of time in crypto & secure environments but just not in such a bureaucratic, regulated, and home of what are frankly obsolete standards environment. It is kind of weird the way that the finance industry runs so far behind the technology.

                    Your point is?

                    If you dig back to the original comment, what I was pointing out was that the regulatory environment from the governments has improved since 2007. This isn’t exactly news. You can find details about this in everything from the wall street journal to the economist. So consequently the use of loose and unregulated finance has shifted. I pointed out one instance that I think is particularly a problem. It isn’t hard to find informed commentary about it. Try google… ]

    • Colonial Viper 7.2

      One more: Al Franken, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he expects hearings on the “troubling” and “rogue” conduct within the FBI.

      They won’t proceed down this track because it would force the FBI to testify as to the Department of Justice’s politically charged obstruction of legitimate investigations.

  7. Chooky 8

    A woman Judge Speaks out against Clinton taking Office…Clinton is under criminal investigation

    ‘Pirro: Clinton’s Guilt a ‘Moot Point’ — ‘She Cannot Take the Oval Office’ ‘


    “”We cannot have a country led by a president subject to ongoing criminal investigations, potential indictments and never-ending hearings. We cannot have a president under that level of scrutiny, that inevitably leads to even more questions and more investigations,” she said…

    ‘Pirro: Clintons Set Up ‘Organized Criminal Enterprise’ in Name of a Charity’


    ….”said this morning that after the WikiLeaks revelations, it’s becoming clear what the Clintons were doing with their foundation and why Hillary Clinton set up a private email server.

    “It’s clear what their intent was. Their intent was to hide. To set up the server so that she could operate not only outside of the guidelines and the rules and the federal requirements, but that she could operate an organized criminal enterprise in the name of a 501(c)(3) charity,” she said in her weekly Friday morning chat with Fox & Friends.

    Pirro said the FBI never should have conducted an investigation without access to a grand jury and said the Justice Department has been “corrupted” like never before…

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      One in three say they are less likely to vote for Clinton now they know the FBI probe is ongoing.

      Trump is still facing a narrow uphill road on the electoral map, but he has a better chance than 2 weeks ago.


      • dukeofurl 8.1.1

        FBI says no more problems with emails:

        ‘The F.B.I. informed Congress on Sunday (today our time)that it has not changed its conclusions about Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server as secretary of state, removing a dark cloud that has been hanging over her campaign two days before Election Day.

        James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, said in a letter to members of Congress that “based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July with respect to Secretary Clinton.” Ny Times.

    • Manuka AOR 8.2

      Caution: In the United States, the right-wing news-entertainment complex has constructed an alternate reality for conservatives that functions like a political version of the Upside-Down from the hit Netflix show “Stranger Things.”

      Perhaps most damning of all, is the finding that people who watch Fox News actually know less about factual news matters than those who do not watch any news program at all.


      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1

        I learnt from Fox News that a sitting President is immune from Federal prosecution.

        I could not find that information on any other mainstream US media channel.

        • mauī

          I learnt more about Clintons email scandals on Fox than CNN. They have more credibility for me now than CNN.

          • dukeofurl

            Youll have to find another ditch to die in now !

          • Phil

            I learnt more about Clintons email scandals on Fox than CNN.

            Meanwhile, the rest of the world learnt more about: Trump’s fraudulent and criminal ‘charity’; Trump’s history of sexual assault; Trump’s fake university, and Trump’s disastrous business dealings, from CNN than from Fox.

            • mauī

              The mainstream media obviously has its priorities right then… holding the government to account and all that…

              • Phil

                Hillary Clinton hasn’t been Secretary of State (her last public office) since 2013. Not sure what ‘government’ you currently want the media to hold her to account for today.

        • Phil

          I learnt from Fox News that a sitting President is immune from Federal prosecution.

          I could not find that information on any other mainstream US media channel.

          That’s probably because it’s not ‘news’ so much as an established long-standing fact.

          It’s a bit like the difference between (a) tomorrow’s weather forecast and (b) the sun is mostly made of helium and hydrogen.

        • McFlock

          you’d never heard of Richard Nixon? Or even Bill Clinton?

          • Andre

            Pretty sure those were House investigations, not conducted by federal agencies.

            And yes, the Repugs have already announced they have no intention of doing their actual jobs and plan to just spend the next few years getting their jollies investigating Clinton if she wins.

            • Manuka AOR

              … and blocking all Supremes noms

            • McFlock

              yeah, that’s the point.

              Presidents get impeached, not arrested by the feds. That’s the check against the presidents pardoning themselves, or in the case of nixon just firing/accepting resignations of attorneys general until he found one who would do his bidding.

            • GregJ

              While the investigations were lead by the Congress (both House & Senate) there was still the possibility of State & Federal indictments. Actually with Nixon there was a Federal Grand Jury that indicted 7 Nixon Aides in July 1974 and secretly named Nixon as a unindicted co-conspirator for conspiring to hinder the Watergate investigation. The special prosecutor dissuaded the Jury from an indictment of Nixon, arguing that a President can only be indicted after he leaves office.


              Ford pardoned Nixon because he would almost certainly have faced Federal & State criminal charges once he had resigned.

              There was a lot of literature (legal and political science) around the time of both Nixon & Clinton Presidencies as to whether they could be indicted on Federal charges.

              • GregJ

                I should add its not actually in law but generally accepted that the US President has “Sovereign Immunity” (rex non potest peccare). That would probably(?) be the finding of the US Supreme Court if it was ever challenged.

              • AmaKiwi

                “Ford pardoned Nixon because” by accepting the pardon Nixon was admitting his guilt. That’s a legal FACT.

                • GregJ

                  Yeah he almost certainly would have been found guilty if he had been prosecuted – the pardon pre-empted any trial though.

        • dukeofurl

          Thats because its just another ‘Fox fact’ which isnt really true.

          “The Constitution provides no exemption for the presidency from the legal processes of other branches.”

          Other civil suits not so much

          ” Supreme Court unanimously rejected any right of a sitting president to quash or to postpone civil suits unconnected with the exercise of presidential authority during tenure as chief executive. In Jones v. Clinton (520 U.S. 681 [1997]), an employee brought a suit seeking damages, claiming that then Governor Clinton had made crude and unwanted sexual advances toward her and that she had been punished for rejecting them.”
          “, it remains open whether criminal procedures could be instituted against a sitting president. Certainly, criminal charges would distract, to a great degree, a president from discharging his or her duties. ”

          • AmaKiwi

            @ dukeofurl

            I am not sure if you are referring to my statement

            “Ford pardoned Nixon because” by accepting the pardon Nixon was admitting his guilt. That’s a legal FACT.

            is a “Fox fact.” It’s not. Gerald Ford said it in a recent interview. I heard him say it. Ford said, “By accepting the pardon Nixon was admitting guilt.”

    • mikesh 8.3

      If Clinton was forced to withdraw at this stage, then it is likely Trump would win. However, if she says in and wins, only to be successfully impeached later, Kaine would become president. Trump supporters would consider this an unconscionable manipulation.

      • Colonial Viper 8.3.1

        You can only be impeached by Congress for things that you have done as President of the United States.

        And given that today the FBI and the Department of Justice will not move against her on the clearest multiple violations of mishandling national security information (including compartmentalised and special access program classified information), they too won’t lay a hand on her during her term in the Oval Office.

        You have to admire the untouchable Clinton machine.

        • AmaKiwi

          “You can only be impeached by Congress for things that you have done as President of the United States.”

          Legally False!

          Hillary Clinton can be impeached for crimes committed as Secretary of State.

          Why haven’t the republicans tried to impeach her during the past 3 years? Because impeachment requires facts, something Fox and Trump are short on.

    • The Other Mike 8.4

      Chooky you surely are not poing out the “Judge” as an impartial, even-handed member (or ex-) of the judiciary? She is a paid shill for Fox/GOP and critises Clintons at every opportunity – a lot of this is sour grapes on her part after being forced, by lack of interest and suppport, to withdraw from 2005 NY senate seat race against the incumbent (HRC of course), and losing 2006 State AG spot to Andrew Cuomo – a former Clinton appointee.

      A bigtime contributor to her political aspirations? One Donald J Trump.

      Like I’m gonna believe any of the shite this woman spouts without a shred of evidence offered.*

      Rotten try Chooky.

      * Hint – don’t post anything around here with the letters F O and X in the url

      • Chooky 8.4.1

        @The Other MIke…re “Hint – don’t post anything around here with the letters F O and X in the url”…..are you trying censorship here?

        why not Fox?…you think mainstream media CNN, NBC, CBS or NYT is any better?

        ‘WikiLeaks’ 10 Most Damning Clinton Emails that Prove Mainstream Media is Scripted & Controlled’

        ….On October 7th, 2016, WikiLeaks publish thousands of emails belonging to John Podesta’s private email archives. More emails have been released in the days that followed. Podesta is Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign Chairman. He previously served as Chief of Staff to President Bill Clinton and Counselor to President Barack Obama.
        The Podesta emails give insight into why there has been such little fanfare in the mainstream media regarding many of the most damning allegations against Clinton.
        The fact that most of the newsworthy information contained in the emails is not being reported by the corporate media is indicative of the incestuous relationship between the mainstream media and the Clinton campaign – and is on full display in the Podesta emails.
        While there are dozens of bombshell revelations contained within the emails –including transcripts of speeches to Wall St. banks that Clinton had refused to release, hidden policy positions, and evidence of collusion with brutal regimes – the most damning is the collusion and control of the U.S. media on display in the emails.
        Essentially, the media has been weaponized as a means of controlling public opinion by propagandizing the American people. World renowned academic Noam Chomsky, in his book “Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media,” detailed how U.S. media frequently serve as an errand boy for U.S. corporate, military and imperial interests….

        ….here are the ten most damning Clinton emails regarding the media’s collusion with her presidential campaign, with hotlinks to the original WikiLeaks release.

        1. Clinton Staff hosts private “off-the-record cocktail party” with 38 “influential” reporters, journalists, editors, and anchors (from 16 different mainstream media outlets including CNN, NBC, CBS, NYT, MSNBC, & more) with the stated goal of “framing the race.”

        2. Donna Brazile (CNN contributor at the time, and current DNC Chairman now) leaked CNN town hall questions to Hillary Clinton’s staff prior to the debate.

        3. Clinton campaign and the New York Times coordinating attack strategy against Trump.

        4. Glen Thrush, POLITICO’s chief political correspondent and senior staff writer for POLITICO Magazine, sends John Podesta an article for his approval. Writes: “Please don’t share or tell anyone I did this. Tell me if I fucked up anything.”

        5. Huffington Post contributor Frank Islam writes to John Podesta in an email titled “My blogs in the Huffington Post”, says “I am committed to make sure she is elected the next president.” “Please let me know if I can be of any service to you.”

        6. Clinton staffer “Placing a story” with Politico / New York Times: “place a story with a friendly journalist” “we have a very good relationship with Maggie Haberman of Politico” “we should shape likely leaks in the best light for HRC.”

        7. John Podesta receiving drafts of New York Times articles before they’re published.
        Clinton staff “placing a story with a friendly at the AP (Matt Lee or Bradley Klapper).”
        More media collusion: NYT and AP “helpful” to Clinton campaign.

        8. Clinton staff colluding with New York Times and Wall Street Journal to paint Hillary’s economic policies in a “progressive” light.

        9. CNBC panelist colluding with John Podesta on what to ask Trump when he calls in for an interview.

        10. Clinton staff appearing to control the release times of Associated Press articles.

        Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/wikileaks-10-most-damning-clinton-emails-media/#fbGu4f5Tucpvzo2g.99

        • The Other Mike

          Congrats on yet another attempt to de-rail the narrative. I’m sorry you did not bother to comment on my post re the ‘judge”.

          BTW Fox “news” was created to be the propoganda wing of the GOP by Murdoch et al. Remember? That’s “why not Fox”.

          I take it from your continuous blather that you think the rapist misogynist Trump would be better than HRC as pres.


          • Spikeyboy

            Probably similar to the rapist misogynist Bill Clinton

            • Colonial Viper

              They tell me that he’s fine to go back into the White House because Hillary is not Bill.

              • McFlock

                no “they” don’t.
                Just that he’s better than trump.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Bill Clinton has had multiple longstanding allegations of rape and sexual assault levelled against him since his days in the Governors mansion. I wouldn’t call that “better” than Trump. Comparable maybe, but certainly not “better.”

                  • McFlock

                    “multiple” in almost the narrowest sense of the word.

                    As opposed to trump, for whom the word “tens” can be applied in almost an equally narrow sense of the word.

                    And east wing vs west wing, of course.

                    Not “good”. Just “better”.

        • AmaKiwi

          @ Chooky

          Which of these “10 damning emails” is evidence a crime was committed?

          I count ZERO.

        • Peter Swift

          “why not Fox?…you think mainstream media CNN, NBC, CBS or NYT is any better?”

          Of course they are. That you don’t speaks more about your own morally corrupt bias, ignorance and complete lack of political insight.

          • Colonial Viper

            FOX is a solid cable news network but you do have to take into account that they will present the Republican perspective more sympathetically than that of the Democrats.

            • Peter Swift

              “more sympathetically” Say what now? lmfao

              You’ve about faced in to a shameless flip flop shocker for hire and I don’t believe or give credence to anything you post.

              • Colonial Viper

                They cover slightly different issues, have a slightly different emphasis and of course their guest line up is more Republican focussed.

                But they shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand for just that.

            • McFlock


              improved in quality since you called it “faux news”, has it?

              • Colonial Viper

                Not sure on that, or whether its simply relative and the rest of the US MSM has, on a relative basis, just turned to shit.

                • McFlock

                  lucky you got zerohedge then to back you up /sarc

                  • Colonial Viper

                    And infowars, the saker, not to mention RT and especially Keiser Report and Cross Talk on RT. Also inessa s on You Tube, a very smart young woman right here in NZ. Lionel Nation as well.

                    • McFlock


                      Did you just suddenly pop a fuse one day, or did your critical faculties slowly, inch by inch with each setback and failed prediction, become totally suffocated by bile?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Al Jazeera and CCTV also worth checking out. And don’t forget RT America. The Canary too.

                    • Pasupial

                      I like the Keiser Report, but more as entertainment as opposed to an information source. Also the routine does get a bit repetitive after a while (so I’ll watch a week’s worth during some financial crisis or other, then not see it for months). It is peculiar that so many of your suggested non-MSM sources are video.

                      Personally, I like my news to be detailed and precise – so prefer written articles where claims can be checked against other sources.

  8. Andre 9

    A quick tour through the things that matter and hardly got any attention: actual policies.


    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Politico says that there hasn’t been enough focus on the policies? Is this the same Politico which still loves to rehash the scandal and the fall out from the Trump Access Hollywood tapes, right up to today?


      • Andre 9.1.1

        Wow CV, you’re awesome.

        You’re super-slick at diverting any topic to something else you’d rather talk about.

        You’re shameless about pushing your narrative no matter how many times it’s been debunked or outright nutso it looks.

        You’ve attracted a crowd of sycophants who hang on your every pronouncement.

        You should try your hand at being a politician. You’d be a natural at it.

        • Colonial Viper

          Just pointing out that left wing media complaining about a lack of focus on policies is them complaining about a situation that has been driven by the same left wing media obsessed by Trump’s dirty talk, personal misbehaviour and alleged sexual improprieties.

          • Andre

            Ok, I’ll go with your diversion. Where in the Politico article I cited (or my comment) is there an actual complaint (as distinct from just an observation) that the media haven’t given much attention to the policies at stake?

            • dukeofurl

              Who would have thought using the very tactics Trump has used to have a prominent place on TS, to push backing for Trump.

        • McFlock

          He did. The crowd of sycophants isn’t indicative of popular support.

          He should probably try starting a cult. When the authorities finally raid the place to find them in nikes and tracksuits, all dead from trivially treatable and preventable illnesses, the authorities will find an apocalypse bunker that’s empty save for a single slab of granite into which is carved a simple, prophetic “I TOLD YOU SO”…

          • Andre

            “…all dead from trivially treatable and preventable illnesses…”

            but not a single subluxation to be found

        • weizguy

          “You should try your hand at being a politician. You’d be a natural at it.”

          He did – didn’t go so well. Looks like we all dodged a bullet.

    • Bill 9.2

      Thanks for the link Andre. It’s revealing.

      Whether I agree or disagree with the articles take on specific points doesn’t really matter and it doesn’t matter if I think they may be peddling softer on one candidate than the other. What matters is the overview – the general analysis and conclusion.

      Of course, it also matters whether or not Trump is a serial groper, or a racist, or a congenitally impulsive bomb-thrower who shouldn’t be trusted with nukes. It matters whether Clinton was careless with classified information, and whether her foundation’s donors got access to the State Department. But those are not the only things that matter.

      The future of issues like climate change and NATO will help determine the future of the planet, but in the 2016 campaign, they received about as much attention as horse soring. Perhaps in 2020, when the consequences of this decision have worked their way through the American system, policy will actually get some airtime.

      If I had the time and the energy, I’d look to construct a ‘descriptive’ post from it. But I have neither.

      Maybe, in spite of CV throwing some ‘soap’ to wash away any potential worthwhile discussion, some people will pick up on it we’ll get some semblance of intelligent dialogue happening.

      That would be nice, but as I see it, sadly, a bit unusual these days…

      • Andre 9.2.1

        The author Michael Grunwald is about as left as you can go and still be mainstream. So he’s going to tend towards flattering Clinton.

        But yeah, too much discussion about the weeds in the undergrowth, not much about the trees, and very little about the forest as a whole. Except for a few people shouting “it’s all sick, burn it all down”.

        • Manuka AOR

          There have been several discussions I’d have liked to have had during the lead-up that haven’t even been touched on, but been way too busy cleaning up/ countering the graffiti each day (in those odd spots of life when can find time).

  9. Andre 10

    Oh dear. That feeling when you really don’t want to own up to having “educated” someone.


  10. Reposted because paedophilia codewords (from the Podesta & Clinton emails)

    Would love to get a pizza for an hour? Or come over

    The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus?

    Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?

    I think Obama spent about $65,000 of the tax-payers money flying in pizza/dogs from Chicago for a private party at the White House not long ago, assume we are using the same channels?

    In the pasta game changer put us in a position to help both parties and gave them incentives.

    The Israeli side wants the blockade to remain in force, though in a more liberal form. Pasta and much more will be let into the Strip, but under strict supervision.

    An American senator raised hell when he found out that pasta was considered a security risk and not allowed in.


    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      yeah…what is their obsession with “cheese pizza”???

      • UglyTruth 11.1.1

        cheese pizza
        child pornography
        Hey wanna go downtown and get some cheese pizza?

        http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheese pizza

      • UglyTruth 11.1.2

        But to answer your question, it’s cover for their codewords, since nobody’s going to suspect fast food has anything to do with paedophiles.

        >> With enormous gratitude to Advance Man Extraordinaire Haber, I am popping
        >> up again to share our excitement about the Reprise of Our Gang’s visit to
        >> the farm in Lovettsville. And I thought I’d share a couple more notes:
        >> We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be
        >> Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and
        >> almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in
        >> that pool for sure. And with the forecast showing prospects of some sun,
        >> and a cooler temp of lower 60s, I suggest you bring sweaters of whatever
        >> attire will enable us to use our outdoor table with a pergola overhead so
        >> we dine al fresco (and ideally not al-CHILLo).


        • Colonial Viper

          Thanks, appreciated. The wording and phrasing in the email is utterly unnatural.

          Alex Jones features a lot of crazy shit on shows but maybe he has this one spot on.

          And for those who doubt that a certain clique in the ruling class can be involved in something like this, there’s been plenty of smoke for years around similar in the UK.


          • McFlock

            Apart from in that case there are numerous complainants, circumstances, and witnesses that seem to suggest a kernel of something fucked up in an orgnaised way.

            In this case we have some email portions that people with a history of “crazy shit” claim to be code for a particular type of crime.

            If “cheese pizza” merely meant cheese pizza, or was code for something else to do with political campaigns, then the snowballing assumptions here are just more crazy shit.

            • Colonial Viper

              pizza and dogs worth US$65,000 of tax payers cash…even fed ex’d from Chicago to DC that is a shit tonne of pizza and dogs

              • One Two

                Murdering millions, genocidol tendancies and destroying entire nations and eco systems are documented activities of the so called ‘global elite’ and their armies of beauracratic, corporate and military minions

                Numbers of the same group have been outed for the sick and derranged psychos that they are including party doners, party members and close associates in the entertainment industry, an industry documented and known for it’s sick and depraved ideologies and practices

                That it should be these ‘global elite factions’ worship at the same alter is a given until it is proven they do not. Such is the merger of politics and entertainment as it has been for 60-70 years selling popularity, propaganda and sharing their lives through film to the masses

                There are commonalities which bound them to perpetuate the evil acts onto the world stage, and the list is short , as to the binds used to ensure the evil continues through the political classes in this instance

                It’s blindingly obvious something truly horrific is in play, on a grand scale

              • McFlock

                fed ex’d? That’s your invention.
                Taxpayers money sounds like airforce delivery.

                If cheese pizza is child porn, what are the “dogs”? And who flies in their porn anyway? Are you arguing that the reference to flying in pizza is evidence that Obama runs a child sex ring in the white house?

    • xanthe 11.2

      AH HA so they are all pastafarians. always suspected they would get us in the end

  11. Ovid 12

    The FBI – having examined the Weiner emails – has told Congress there is no change to its recommendation not to prosecute Clinton.

    Director Comey’s letter

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      Interesting – it suggests that the new emails must have been almost all duplicates of previously examined ones. I guess this means that she is in the clear, even though quite clearly government documents from her private email server have ended up on systems where they were definitely not supposed to be.

      • dukeofurl 12.1.1

        Documents from her server ?

        You mean emails to/from Abedin ? This is just a different version of the laptops from her other aides which were looked at.
        [ former Clinton chief of staff Cheryl Mills and ex-campaign staffer Heather Samuelson]
        They hadn’t requested Abedins computer previously.

        • Colonial Viper

          You mean emails to/from Abedin ? This is just a different version of the laptops from her other aides which were looked at.

          You could make that assumption but its not clear from the rather cryptic new letter than Comey has written to Congress.

          Nevertheless, he’d be an idiot for causing all this pre-election outrage and angst for a set of emails which were simply just duplicates of what they already had. Although having such emails on yet another unauthorised system (Weiner’s) belonging to someone with no government clearances (Weiner) is likely to involve felonies – for someone.

          • dukeofurl

            Felonies ?
            You certainly sound like a deep south Sheriff !

            Luckily the director of the FBI should have a better idea of laws that could broken- its his and his teams job

          • dukeofurl

            ” having such emails on yet another unauthorised system (Weiner’s) belonging to someone with no government clearances (Weiner) is likely to involve felonies ”

            Firstly getting an email isnt a felony. It would be the sender who might have problems.

            From the way the story unfolded and how Albedin was unaware the emails were on the particular laptop.
            This could have happened in two ways. First she may have had a backup feature which used her home network to back up the emails to another computer ( Weiners). This could have been set up some time back without her knowledge by someone doing home tech, including security and anti-virus etc.

            Another method could have been the laptop was previously used by Albedin herself and her email program archived to separate file . When she gave him the computer she may have deleted all the emails on the email client side but forgot ( or didnt know) about the archived files.

            Its not likely Weiner had the knowledge or ability to access these archive files, as it would require someone fairly skilled to get them.

            I dont know if this procedure works if you arent logged on the correct user profile

            • Colonial Viper

              Firstly getting an email isnt a felony. It would be the sender who might have problems.

              Possibly. However, being in unauthorised possession of classified information is likely to be a Federal offence in of itself.

              • dukeofurl

                Which law is that the FBi director has overlooked ?

                You dont know a thing, as getting emails you are unaware of doesnt constitute a crime.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.2

        Don’t worry, some gutless lackwit will invent some new smears any day now.

        • Colonial Viper

          Doug Band warns Chelsea Clinton off further investigations and audits into the Clinton Foundation, claiming that she would not want it revealed how the Foundation has helped to resource her political campaigning, wedding, and lifestyle over the last decade.


          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Swallow it whole like a good little shill.

            • Colonial Viper

              Uh, it’s his own email. Written by himself. By a co-originator of the Clinton Foundation and the Clinton Global Initiative.

              • dukeofurl


                But what is the evidence ? Clinton Foundation ‘resources’ are what exactly?
                She was on the board of Clinton Foundation remember, so I presume she is paid like the rest of the board.

                You would get a D for a 3rd form essay with that sort of ‘detail’

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  You don’t have to presume: her tax returns are online.

                  • AmaKiwi

                    “Her tax returns are online.”

                    And his?

                    You want to really know a person? Find out how they earn and spend their money.

                • Colonial Viper

                  excellent tribal-political gaze averting reflexes.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    If you can’t figure out how her tax returns relate to her sources of income, I shouldn’t be at all surprised.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Doug Band was mistaken then? Clinton Foundation resources weren’t used to help Chelsea politically campaign or for her wedding?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Argumentum ad nauseam is the best you can do. Stop lying about what the emails say. You’re pathetic.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I encourage everyone to read the link for themselves. The email says what it says. IMO it is Doug Band warning Chelsea Clinton to stop digging around or that her own dirt will be the first to surface.

                    • McFlock

                      IMO it is Doug Band warning Chelsea Clinton to stop digging around or that her own dirt will be the first to surface.

                      Indeed. Dirt real or imagined, I suspect. Nothing like a bit of innuendo to keep your toehold.

                      What, you’ve never been involved in an organisation where people spread rumours about their supposed colleagues because they might be threats to personal fiefdoms?

                      Funnily enough, it seems to happen most often in organisations that lack diligent processes for personnel administration and clear role delineation to achieve defined goals in a cooperative manner. A bit like what was in that lawyer’s review document you zerohedged a day or two back. Consultant was right, who knew?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Reading it reveals the sad truth: you lied about its content. Your interpretation is sheer invention.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Happy to hear your alternative interpretation. People can click on the link and read the full email chain if they wish. They can decide for themselves.

                  Band wrote:

                  The investigation into her [Chelsea Clinton] getting paid for campaigning, using foundation resources for her wedding and life for a decade, taxes on money from her parents….

                  I hope that you will speak to her and end this

                  Once we go down this road….

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Whereas you lied, and wrote:

                    …the Foundation has helped to resource her political campaigning, wedding, and lifestyle over the last decade.

                    Where’s the evidence the investigation found? I note that it was Chelsea who was conducting it. Or didn’t you pick up on that? 😆

                    • dukeofurl

                      As I understand Chelsea Clinton wasnt happy about how people like Bland were ‘using foundation resources’ to advance their own private business, eg contacting donors etc. There may be stuff that the Clintons didnt know about, but hey make them guilty because Trump has made it popular.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      in fact I wrote

                      Doug Band warns Chelsea Clinton off further investigations and audits into the Clinton Foundation, claiming that she would not want it revealed how the Foundation has helped to resource her political campaigning, wedding, and lifestyle over the last decade.

                      which I stand by – and am happy for others to read Doug Band’s email themselves to form their own opinion.

                      I note that it was Chelsea who was conducting it. Or didn’t you pick up on that? 😆

                      And why do you think that Band wanted it stopped?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      I don’t in fact care. What I do care about is a fascist shill like you telling lies about it.

                    • One Two []

                      Do you ‘care’ as much about the decades and generations of lies from the political classes?

                    • dukeofurl

                      This is her ‘lifestyle’
                      “Since 2011, Clinton has taken a prominent role at the family’s Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation and has had a seat on its board.
                      As part of her work, she gives paid speeches to raise money with her fees going directly to the foundation, whose goals relate to improving global health, creating opportunities for women, and promoting economic growth. Wikipedia

                      So no Paris Hilton here.

                      Should we be looking at the Donalds Foundation , seems to be quite a bit of evidence of how hes benefited- illegally it seems

                      ‘According to exhaustive reporting by David A. Fahrenthold of The Washington Post, Mr. Trump may have used the foundation to pay expenses for his business, to buy himself gifts and to make a political contribution. These things are all clearly prohibited under both federal and state charities law. No competent lawyer would advise a charitable foundation that such payments were allowable, and only someone with no respect for charity would so flagrantly violate these basic rules. NYT

                      Much much more real evidence here dont you think. Not just a vague ‘resources for wedding’, you cant even say the words
                      foundation paid for wedding, or foundation paid for holidays etc.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      As part of her work, she gives paid speeches to raise money with her fees going directly to the foundation, whose goals relate to improving global health, creating opportunities for women, and promoting economic growth. Wikipedia

                      Then explain how the Clintons have managed to amass around US$200M worth of personal wealth, going from practically broke when leaving the White House to being amongst the wealthiest people in the world.

                      I suppose now you also believe that John Key really gives his PM salary to charity.

                      The political tribalism-self inflicted blindness of the Left is legendary.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Why should anyone do you the courtesy of reading her tax returns for you?

                      Google challenged all of a sudden.

                    • dukeofurl

                      Well at least we see Clintons tax returns and income.
                      Donald? No way in hell .

                      ‘showing that she made a combined $10 million last year and paid about a third of that in federal income taxes.

                      The Democratic presidential nominee’s 2015 tax returns, which she filed jointly with her husband Bill Clinton, show that the couple paid a federal tax rate of 34.2 percent and donated 9.8 percent of their income to charity.
                      .. Clintons’ made about $10 million last year, which is a significant drop from the year before, when the duo reported a combined income of about $28 million.”

                      “Between January 2014 to April 2015, Clinton raked in a cool $5 million for her book “Hard Choices,” according to a campaign finance report released earlier this year.”

                      Speeches book sales . Nice work if you can get it

                      “Bill Clinton made more $5.25 million in speaking fees, while his wife made nearly $1.5 from paid speeches[2015]. This is also a drop from the year before, when the couple made $20 million from speaking fees.

                      How much was the Goldman Sachs fee again $675k total for 3 in 2013.

                      peanuts compared to the other amounts

                      Hillary Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, combined to earn more than $153 million in paid speeches from 2001 until Hillary Clinton launched her presidential campaign last spring, a CNN analysis shows.
                      In total, the two gave 729 speeches from February 2001 until May, receiving an average payday of $210,795 for each address

                      Its effectively appearance money. 729 times

                      And Wall St Banks ?
                      Well Sanders voted for Wall St deregulation in 2000
                      ” Commodity Futures Modernization Act.
                      The law effectively gave bankers, or “sophisticated traders,” free rein from pre-existing oversight mechanisms when they wanted to make deals on the sidelines of the major stock exchanges, in “over-the-counter” trading.”

                      So that answers your question how tthey have been working since 2001.

                      Can you enlighten us on how Donalds made his money since then

                    • McFlock

                      I suppose now you also believe that John Key really gives his PM salary to charity.

                      If he said he’d donated to a specific charity, and that charity had its records online, and those records included an “other income” line item like “donated politicians’ salary”, in the same way that the CF has a line item “speech revenue”, I’d say it was a fair bet that the money was going in that direction.

                      But all JK said was that he’d probably donate to charity. With no corroborating evidence, I’d take that with a grain of salt.

                      As to how the clintons got rich, it’s all in hillary and bill’s tax returns. Knock yourself out.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Decades and generations of lies, and yet progress has occurred! It’s like reality’s liberal bias or something! If only I’d thought of it first, several thousand years ago!

        • Manuka AOR

          Don’t worry, some gutless lackwit will invent some new smears any day now.

          They (Repubs) have been attacking and trying to sabotage her efforts for at least 25 years.

    • Manuka AOR 12.2

      Yep, “The FBI has found no evidence of criminality in the new batch of Hillary Clinton emails.” http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37892138

  12. Manuka AOR 13

    Tim Kaine: (Apart from Comey’s letter) Some in the FBI are “actively working” to help the Trump campaign. Vid at link:

  13. xanthe 14

    this “predict the president” game is interesting with useful insights


  14. AsleepWhileWalking 15

    Jennifer Palmieri, the communications director for the Clinton campaign tweets “Friends, please remember that if you see a whopper of a Wikileaks in next two days – it’s probably a fake,” tweeted.


    (Wikileaks has an outstanding track record and is therefore recognised as a highly credible source).

    • Manuka AOR 16.1

      Thank you fisiani!
      Obama was speaking in Fayetteville, North Carolina, Friday afternoon when a protester stood up holding a Trump sign. That led the crowd of Clinton supporters to boo, a common response to protesters during rallies for both candidates this election.

      But the President wasn’t having it.

      “Hold up! Hold up!” Obama repeatedly called to the crowd, never once addressing the protester and certainly not, as Trump put it, “really screaming” at him.
      More to the point, Obama’s rebuke was directed at the Clinton supporters, not the protester. He first told the audience they shouldn’t worry about the man, who was peacefully conducting himself.

      “We live in a country that respects free speech. Second of all, it looks like maybe he might have served in our military and we’ve got to respect that,” Obama said. “Third of all, he was elderly and we’ve got to respect our elders.”

      (Why on earth was it that Trump’s utter distortion of the event is what the news services picked up on?)

    • Andre 16.2

      Trump is sort of correct when he says if he spoke to a protestor the way Obama did, the press would say he had become unhinged. It would certainly be a massive dislocation from all of Trump’s previous behaviour, ever.

      • dukeofurl 16.2.1

        Certainly. hes ‘implied’ they should be beaten up, or shot or just plain intimidated.
        hes sort of careful to not say words that could get him arrested but its clearer than a dog whistle

        • Andre

          A while ago I put a question to Andrew Geddis over at Pundit about whether there was enough difference in free speech law between the US and NZ that Trump’s speeches would get him in trouble here. Geddis seemed to be of the opinion that Trump’s comments along the lines of “if you see someone ready to throw a tomato, knock the hell out them, seriously” would be enough to attract the interest of our local plod.

  15. Chooky 17

    Newt Gingrich on James Comey:

    “The destruction of James Comey by political pressure is painful to watch. He is being twisted into an indefensible pretzel of contradictions”

    “Comey must be under enormous political pressure to cave like this and announce something he cant possibly know.”



    • Pasupial 17.1

      Gingrich isn’t unbiased in this matter though, is he chooky? From the wikipedia piece you so helpfully linked:

      After having consulted Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign, Gingrich encouraged his fellow Republicans to unify behind Trump who was by then the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.[166] Gingrich was among Trump’s final three choices to be his running mate.

      • Chooky 17.1.1

        of course he is biased…just as you are biased….and everyone else commenting here is biased

        Newt Gingrich is nevertheless quite an astute commentator

        ‘Newt Gingrich FULL EXPLOSIVE INTERVIEW W Sean Hannity 10/31/16 , Clinton Campaign Exposed’


        • Pasupial

          Chooky, you are really stretching there. Yes, I do have my own personal biases. But in the current US election, as someone from a different country who which will only be indirectly impacted by whoever wins the presidency, I am willing to go with the evidence. At present, I believe that; Sane & Evil, is marginally better than; Crazy & Vile, but would change my mind if there was a convincing reason to do so.
          Ginrich on the other hand was the Republican Speaker who was pivotal in preventing healthcare reform during Bill Clinton’s presidency (an issue with which HRC was strongly identified) by shutting down the government in 1995 and 1996. He has previously failed to be selected as Republican Presidental candidate, and is now a vocal Trump supporter. His, and my own, biases are simply incommensurable.

          • Chooky

            re “Crazy & Vile”…what about Clinton and Libya… a horrendous war crime and crime against humanity

            …Libya a country where everyone had a house and free health care and affordable food ….destroyed and now taken over by ISIS…and the destruction instigated by Clinton…as Gaddafi warned it would create a massive refugee problem for Europe



            ( imo what the Americans do to themselves is their business eg healthcare…but when they interfere in sovereign states like Iraq, Libya, Syria and create mayhem and destruction of peoples and their countries it is a war crime and a crime against humanity …and every self respecting Lefty should oppose it and demand justice…just as every self respecting Lefty and socialist should have opposed Stalin…and many did)

            • marty mars

              If trump had been there the Geiger counters would still be clicking away 1000 years from now in that area.

            • Pasupial

              I more meant that Clinton was the; Sane & Evil, one. You would be hard put to find a US Secretary of State who wasn’t (allegedly) a war criminal. I do however quite like the release of these Clinton emails for the glimpse they give behind the facade of US benevolence. I haven’t more than scratched the surface, but (not so) shockingly it appears that Clinton has put her own countries interests before everyone else’s.

              If you know; Pratchett’s Going Postal (book or miniseries), the analogy I use is the comparison between; Havelock Vetinari and; Reacher Gilt. Sure; one may throw the occasional mime into the scorpion pit and employ assassins as they see fit. But the other is a manipulative grifter whose only interest in what they can wring for themself from the fragile systems that support society.

              • Chooky

                well Madeleine Albright is a friend of Clinton’s …and for me that is enough to vote Trump

                ‘Madeleine Albright, latest pro-Clinton Neocon hawking anti-Russia conspiracy theories’ by Robert Bridge


                “Show me an American Neocon today and I will show you a pro-Clinton supporter. In fact, it is indicative of Hillary Clinton’s particular brand of foreign policy that Republican hawks have fled the GOP standard to join ranks with the warmongering Democrats.

                In order to guarantee another 4-8 years of US-led military aggression in the Middle East, and heightened tensions with Russia and China (which all translates into lucrative defense spending), the Neocons have found it necessary to drag Russian President Vladimir Putin into the 2016 presidential race as a means of deflecting attention away from a devastating series of leaked emails, courtesy of Julian Assange of WikiLeaks, that portray Clinton and her campaign team in less than glowing terms.

                The latest Neocon to grease the wheels of Clinton’s War & Wall Street machine is Madeleine Albright, 79, the former Secretary of State, who is perhaps most famous for two quotes,

                “What’s the point of having this superb military… if we can’t use it?”

                And second, when asked in a 1996 interview with the news program 60 Minutes if the price of UN sanctions against Iraq – which was half a million dead Iraqi children – was worth it, Albright unhesitatingly responded, “We think the price is worth it.” …


            • GregJ

              I live next door to a Libyan family who are very interesting to talk about the Arab spring. While the present situation is a complete mess it was no joyride under Gaddafi and many of those things you list depended on your support & status within the regime – that was leaving aside the corruption, uncertainty and arbitrary chance of disappearing or being killed by the regime. My neighbour is glad Gaddafi is gone – he wasn’t enraptured by Western help but said without it Gaddafi would have slaughtered those in opposition. He just wants the foreign influence of Jihadists out and a chance for his people to solve their own problems and develop their own institutions and make it a place where his family (his kids in particular) can return to and be safe & happy (and of course he has extended family still there).

              P.S. A reply to Chooky above at

              • Colonial Viper

                The family has children? Ask them about healthcare for children and pregnant women under Gaddafi. In fact, ask them what policies Gadaffi had for young people marrying and starting new families.

                Now, ask him what life is like back in Libya, what healthcare is like there now, and why is he here and not back there.

  16. Chooky 18

    #PodestaEmails32 : WikiLeaks releases latest batch of emails from Clinton campaign chair


    …”Saturday’s release contained transcripts from Bill Clinton’s fundraising speeches, which included the former president attacking UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and discussing the need for a tough leader to “enforce the trigger that will re-impose sanctions” should Iran violate the nuclear deal…

    ‘Assange: Clinton & ISIS funded by same money, Trump won’t be allowed to win (JOHN PILGER EXCLUSIVE)’


  17. Abby Martin on the Podesta brothers and their lobbying operation. I’m sure there’s an innocent mansplanation.

    • Bill 19.1

      The US complaining about alleged interference in their presidential election processes! Even if the allegations were true, the hypocrisy is astounding. How many elections has the US interfered with over the years? How many democratically elected leaders have they had in a hand in ousting?

      I didn’t watch that clip all the way through, but even allowing for a degree of hyperbole and arm waving, the apparent revolving doors and elevators do make for quite a structure.

      Not that it’s permissible to question any of that at the moment or make any suggestion that might resemble an attempt to hold (likely) power to account. Because Trump.

      After tomorrow, who knows?

      But at the moment, it looks like a variation of John Key’s play on ‘Dirty Politics’ is being re-run. My question is how many self described leftists were in favour of letting sleeping dogs lie on that one? It’s true that a few got distracted by the whole “Dotcom is evil” nonsense, but on the whole…

      Unlike now, where it seems the general consensus is, not so much that Trump is evil, but that fact must come before anything else and everything else must be glossed over, kicked into the long grass, or let slip under the radar, lest ‘evil’.

      I know the bulk of ‘our’ media didn’t want to go anywhere near ‘our’ Dirty Politics, and happily allowed a spin along the same bullshit lines as in the US right now about foreign interference. And NZ didn’t even have a convenient bogey man like Trump standing on the wings who could be used to covertly suggest “Best not, lest…” (Dotcom was always a nothing in terms of political power)

      Am I just forlornly waiting for an end to all the somewhat tribal “for or agin” that’s marking so many discussions these days? Is there any chance that dodgy stuff can be pointed to without a clatter of accusations and opprobrium descending to bury inquiry under layers of muck tamped down by legions of tackity boots stomping down to preserve some bullshit notion of tribal loyalty?

      Rant over. Signing out now and going back to the garden. Thanks for the link.

    • The Chairman 19.2

      Excellent clip, Cemetery.

      Here’s another.

      Abby Martin Exposes What Hillary Clinton Really Represents

  18. Andre 20

    Oh jeez. Imagine being the poor terrified schmuck tasked with keeping Trump’s phone safely away from him.


  19. Trump blatting on about the rigged election if he doesn’t win. On that ONE point alone he should be disqualified from running. He is infantile in the extreme.

  20. joe90 23

    We need a bigger word because liar doesn’t really cut it.

    Trump has made almost 500 false claims in last 7 weeks: report https://t.co/UV9kkoCL4k pic.twitter.com/tq046UbiLA— The Hill (@thehill) November 6, 2016

  21. Chooky 24

    Donald leads Hillary by 1 and 5 points in latest surveys
    Published: 3 hours ago

    “WASHINGTON – Two national daily tracking polls show Donald Trump leading Hillary Clinton by between 1 and 5.6 points in the latest surveys.

    In the Los Angeles Times daily tacking poll, Trump has taken his largest lead yet in the campaign with a 5.6 percent edge – 48.2 to 42.6.

    …In the Investors Business Daily national tracking, which has proven to be the most accurate indicator in presidential elections since 2004, Trump leads by 1 percent…

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2016/11/2-national-tracking-polls-have-trump-up/#yTlqkFq0CWPH0xsB.99.

  22. Siobhan 25

    “Just voted!! Woohoo!! HILLARY, dammit! A vote for kindness and compassion and AGAINST misogyny, racism & greed.”

    Michael Moore showing where his allegiances lie. To a kind and Compassionate not at all greedy Hillary. Ha ha ha.

    (this is 2 days old, but i’d somehow managed to not notice earlier)

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      IMO one major reason Hillary Clinton led the push for regime change in Libya while Sec State was to build her hawkish credentials for her Presidential candidacy. And now, look at what life is like for Libyans.

      That is the kind of ambition that she embodies.

      • marty mars 25.1.1

        What a fantasy – you are stretching and stretching but just not quite getting there. It would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic and sad.

        • Colonial Viper

          BTW that analysis is not my own. Also as Sec State there is a report that she endangered her staff by insisting on a photo op in Jakarta in an insecure area. That’s her headspace.

          • Chooky

            yes she should not have her finger on the trigger …she is [deleted]

            [Take a couple of days off, chooky. Abuse based on gender and/or supposed health status is not acceptable. See you on Weds. TRP]

          • marty mars

            no that is your headspace – lot of space not so much head

            • Colonial Viper

              Another eye bleedingly quick decent into personal abuse by a left winger.

              • McFlock

                but it gave you the opportunity for some cheap point-scoring and a told-you-so. Look on the bright side.

              • once again you go down that road – after all of your sick innuendo and actual disgusting postings against clinton – so like your man trump you are.

    • Chooky 25.2

      @ Siobhan…Michael Moore has been described as a…

  23. Andre 26

    Bill Maher’s interview with Obama. 38 minutes of thoughtful discussion on a wide range of topics. If it wasn’t for the last two minutes it would have belonged over in Open Mike.

  24. One Two 27

    It will become abubdantly clear once the ‘results’ are in, those who will support ‘their team’ over supporting humanity

    The ego driven abuse towards eachother is a disgrace and passes for nothing resembling political analysis

    The outcome of the rigged election will be whomever the owners of the system wish it to be…it’s as simple as that!

    Only once the emotional maturity and observational awareness reaches a tipping point will the energy focus in the appropriate direction…on the puppet masters instead of the puppets

    Nz is a long way away from tipping point if following the election threads on this blog is any measure

    A few have managed to see through the abomination but most have chosen sides believing they’re doing the ‘right thing’

    Choosing any side offered up in a rigged and fraudulant system, is always the wrong thing!

    • marty mars 27.1

      A heck of a lot of judgments there one two.

      Are you saying that people shouldn’t support or oppose either of the 2 main candidates because we live over here in Aotearoa?

      If trump wins will you still consider the election rigged?

      Do you live in this country? because you seem to write with a distance (I don’t really care one way or the other just interested and please ignore if it irritates you).


      • Chooky 27.1.1

        i ignore you often …but this time those are good comments imo

      • One Two 27.1.2

        Hi Marty

        My comments are observations based on what I read here. I don’t expect my comments are understood for the most part and will continue to find ways to articulate myself… still that doesn’t mean people will understand, and that’s ok

        Perhaps it’s abuse , insults and linked articles to flame bait that people understand these days. A good case good be made from what I see here, and elsewhere

        People have to find their own way and decide the tools to use and to develop to navigate their journey. How they choose to engage in politics is personal choice but as with all choices there are consequences. Support or oppose makes no difference to my thinking because it’s all energy spent on an undeserving cause and enshrines BAU. Change is most likely to happen when people turn their backs in unity against the rigged system and stop feeding it the energy it requires to exist

        The system is rigged to support the status quo with the ‘riggers’ having both sides covered, as any ‘pro gamer does’. This is a well enough established and documented truism in US politics especially, and quite likely the majority of ‘democratic nations’

        So it matters not which colour ‘wins’ , history maps the path and agenda and it simply continues along the intended trajectory sav for minor deviations. The outcomes are clearly visible under red or blue governments and other than tinkering at the periphery , root causes remain entrenched and rolling forward

        The position I take to not enage directly comes with consequences ,but does not drain energy from me. I use it for things which genuinely matter most in my life. Things I can influence in a positive way that deserve energy

        So if I come over as distant (im interested to hear your thoughts) it is perhaps because I am trying to look at a fuller picture without bias of ‘taking sides’, not accross a staged divide which offers up the choice of criminal A or B each 3 or 4 years.

        Living in Nz made little difference to how I see or feel about events, nor does it change how I respond to them now. There was a time when it use to occupy my time and my mind, but I came to realise that it was taking me away from ‘life’. My responses to events were similar but my mind was being drained engaging directly

        I am born and raised in AOT and have been fortunate to have lived abroad at various stages of life for periods of time, while living at home for periods in between.

        I feel it helped my perspectives having the opportunity to self evaluate both inside and outside AOT


  25. Chooky 28

    Why has Comey done what he done?…This is interesting:

    ‘When investigators go rogue: James Comey and Hillary’s emails’


    ‘Ed Rollins: Comey’s actions prove Washington is corrupt’

    ‘Exposed: FBI Director James Comey’s Clinton Foundation Connection’


    • The Other Mike 28.1

      Wow Chooky! Got Fox “news” and Breitbart in one post! So much BS.. so little time!

      BTW latest from LA Times – HRC with 352 electoral votes: http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-here-s-our-final-electoral-map-of-the-1478473458-htmlstory.html

      • Colonial Viper 28.1.1

        They think that Hillary Clinton will win by a bigger margin than Obama did in 2012 and almost by as much as he did in 2008?

        I’d say there is a near zero chance of that but we’ll see.

        By the way 538 has a Trump win sitting at 33%. But of course Clinton remains the clear favourite.

        • Richard Rawshark

          Don’t forget the quakers! they are voting Trump..

          • Colonial Viper

            In Florida I think that the Haitian and Cuban communities will lean Trump.

            • Richard Rawshark

              You got 2 days left CV, you got ammo, water, canned food…

              I have, I am prepared for a Russian first strike..

              I don’t want to alarm you. but if Clinton looks like she’s going to win, and all those big wigs will be in Washington.., perfect first strike time..

              But seriously..

              Looking forward to the US election for the first time ever, i’ll give these two one thing, we all have a better knowledge of the us electoral system now.


              • Colonial Viper

                IMO First strike is a recipe for losing a nuclear war unless you can prepare the ground first by cyber-crippling the enemy’s CNC systems.

                Also, if Clinton wins, the Left needs to stop complaining about the foreign corporate/banking take over of NZ and its key infrastructure and assets. It’ll be a done deal.

                • CNC systems? I don’t think depriving the Russkies of their ability to make small plastic objects, wooden chair legs and bulk automotive parts is going to be totally effective. Perhaps we should take out their Command and Control systems instead. Just a thought.

                  • McFlock

                    And that all assumes that the Trident captains (if british are included in the strikees) have a letter from the PM that says “do nothing, we’re already fucked” rather than “avenge our glowing ashes!”.

            • Ad

              As in Gore V Bush, it all comes down to Florida.

              Maybe Nevada.

              Turn him over on the barbie; he’s done.

    • Wayne 28.2

      That is really stretching the Comey connection with the Foundation. Being involved in a leading US company (Lockheed Martin) which is connected (a corporate partner) with a former US presidents Foundation hardly makes Comey one on one with the Clintons.

      Probably every major US corporate has a connection with the Foundation simply as part of recognising a former President.

      In general former Presidents are held in much higher regard than former PM’s in part because there are so few of them (4 living at the moment being Carter, Bush, Clinton and Bush) and in part because they are truly at the apex of their constitutional system and are popularly elected at least in a fashion.

      • Pasupial 28.2.1

        Chooky has been doing a lot of stretching recently Wayne. And in his contortions has managed to shove his head so impressively far up his own arse as to get himself a ban (upthread at 25.1.etc).

        Unfortunately, this does leave several of his assertions hanging seemingly begging for correction. But personally I feel reluctant to do so when he can’t respond in turn.

        • Andre

          “he”, “his” ? I seem to recall Chooky has confirmed that …aaah … we can take a broad hint from the fact the handle is Chooky and not Cocky.

          • Pasupial

            Yeah, you’re right Andre, I’d forgotten that (and it wasn’t even that late). Still, my main point was that it seems unfair to post comments disagreeing with people who have since been banned.

  26. Manuka AOR 29

    Thank you Dan Rather for the glimpse of a return to sanity!
    Dan Rather, veteran US broadcaster, ” blasts Trump’s ‘shameful’ campaign and the media and demagogues who enabled it”.

    Veteran broadcaster and former CBS News anchor Dan Rather said on Sunday that now that Donald Trump’s “shameful” presidential campaign is winding to an end, it is important to hold accountable the parties and individuals that allowed it to happen.

    In a Facebook post, Rather wrote, “A shameful campaign winds up with a shameful final chapter. How fitting. How disappointing. And how rallying it must be for us to strive for a far different national narrative going forward.”
    He went on to lambast Trump’s “cynical” supporters in the Republican Party, who supported the former reality TV star for the sake of politics. He laid into the media for giving Trump an “open mic” and allowing him to pollute the discourse.
    (my emph)


    He went on to chastise those who “whipped up xenophobia and misogyny in the name of rallying the base” as well as those who actively campaigned to fill the airwaves with misinformation and “persecuted the truth.”

    Our destiny will depend on how we act going forward. Will we buy into the “nevermind” crowd, or will we resolve, together, to demand better of our elected officials, our press, and ourselves?”

    • Ad 29.1


      Dan Rather simply hasn’t listened to the great unwashed coming out for Trump.
      He’s a ‘Goodnight And Good Luck’ liberal.

      A really bad case of not being able to explain runaway success.

      • Manuka AOR 29.1.1

        You’re welcome to your opinion Ad.

        I give credence to someone who began his journalist career before your dad even started school, and who continues to this day. He was in Dallas when Kennedy was shot. As CBS foreign correspondent, he served in Vietnam. He covered Watergate and the impeachment hearings that followed. As CBS news anchor, his first words on that job were, “Good evening, President Reagan”. In 2004 he ran a controversial report into Bush’s military records, which led to him leaving the network. A recent documentary series he presents includes “America’s Mental Health Crisis”.

        But hey, what would he know.
        (Just composting what you threw, btw.)

  27. Manuka AOR 30

    “Malicious Twitter Bots could have profound consequences for the election”

    Twitter has been invaded by an army of software robots – most commonly referred to as “bots.” Two new studies delve into this topic and how bots’ bad behavior could ultimately sway public opinion and political discourse.

    While many bots like Space Cowboy SciFi are really just good bots going about their pre-programmed tasks, there a many that are running around out there in the wild masquerading as humans. These so-called “bad bots” are created mainly to impersonate a human under a fake identity and to influence public opinion.

    Now, some of the most dastardly bots – run by fiendishly clever “master puppeteers” – have made their way onto the Twitter scene and are beginning to influence the political discourse on social media as never before


    Twitter does have rules against “botting,” impersonation and similar activity, but the bots have multiplied so fast that the rule is nearly unenforceable

  28. Andre 31

    Martin O’Malley could have been fun as the Dem nominee.


    It’s worth watching the whole 8 minutes.

  29. The Other Mike 32

    New Hampshire UNH/WMUR poll – Hillary surges to 11 point lead over Trump. Hassan leads


    • Ad 32.1

      Too late for any meaningful polls.

      Look to state-by-state turnout now.

      Both Presidential and Senate. It will take both.

      Betcha she gets 4 Supreme Court seats in one term.

  30. AmaKiwi 33

    Noam Chomsky identified the two things most likely to destroy humanity: climate change and nuclear war.

    Would anyone out there disagree?

    So who do you vote for? The guy who doesn’t believe in climate change and wants to “save” $100 billion by cutting all U.S. government climate change funding?

    The guy who wants to save money by getting more countries to build their own nukes and wants to keep allies and enemies in suspense about when he might use nukes?

    Hate Hillary all you want but the other choice is suicide. I want to live!

    • Colonial Viper 33.1

      Nuclear disaster (war or accident) is about the only thing which could end humanity faster than climate change.

      I justify supporting Trump on the basis that Hillary is with the neocons and will ramp up nuclear tensions with both China and Russia.


      despite what Hillary Clinton says, in real physical life there isn’t 5ppm of difference between the two candidates.

      • GregJ 33.1.1

        Out of interest, & in a purely hypothetical, if Sanders or Elizabeth Warren had been the nominee would you still support Trump?

        • Colonial Viper

          I would have backed Warren.

          First women president, brilliant economist, understands in detail how the GFC was used as an opportunity to enrich the 0.1% and how to undo it, a true down to earth woman who cares about the everyperson because she is actually one herself.

          Not an elitist self centred over ambitious under talented non-achieving so-and-so who is pretending to be one.

        • Ad

          Warren would have been fine on domestic policy, if all you cared about was tax, consumer affairs, and banking regulation. Unfortunately there’s a bit more to domestic policy than that. She needs a mode other than perpetual scolding.

          Warren would have had just no show on foreign affairs, intelligence community, the military, or global strategy.

          Sanders, more idealistic than Obama and likely to mobilize better than Warren, but again, nil on foreign affairs, intelligence community, the military, or global strategy.

          On the Republican side I would have gone with McCain. A good bastard, overall.

          • Colonial Viper

            Warren would have had just no show on foreign affairs, intelligence community, the military, or global strategy.

            Compared to a community organiser from Chicago, or an actor from illinois, Warren would have done just fine.

          • Andre

            On McCain I would have wholehearted agreed with you up until Palin. Seems to me that’s when he fell out of his tree, spilled his marbles, and instead of gathering them up he’s been dropping more out ever since.

            Of all the Republicans I can think of that could currently be considered credible candidates for Pres, the only one I’d be ok with is Senator Susan Collins of Maine, to be honest.

      • AmaKiwi 33.1.2

        “there isn’t 5ppm of difference between the two candidates”

        I think there is an enormous difference. I think he is a very dangerous, insecure egomaniac with little empathy and no vision except dollar signs.

  31. Colonial Viper 34

    Sarah Palin in MI with the Trump campaign: polls are only good for strippers and skiers.


    • North 34.1

      What’re you hiding there CV…….a rueful sense of inevitability?

      • Colonial Viper 34.1.1

        538 has Trump at just a 33% chance. His road is narrow and steep.

        And on Tuesday he’ll be up against the well oiled massive Democrat turn out machine that Hillary inherited from Obama, while in many states, the local RNC aristocracy would just as rather see Trump crash and burn.

        It’s going to be interesting.

        • AmaKiwi

          “he’ll be up against the well oiled massive Democrat turn out machine”

          The Republicans have a similar machine but Trump ignored it because he is a showman, not a political organizer.

          In 2000, the Republican machine stole Florida from Al Gore. I’d say that was an enormously effective machine. If you are stupid enough to threaten the families of the 17% of Americans who are Latino, expect them to fight back hard.

          Trump’s failures are the result of his own out of control ego, not Democratic Party conspiracies.

    • Ad 34.2

      She’s make an excellent fourth wife for him.

  32. joe90 35

    Kurt Eichenwald –

    The tweets will be presenting my findings from my Trump investigations in the order they were reported in @Newsweek.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016


    1.Trump lied to Congress that he was not meeting with any Indian casino executives when documents and sworn statements show he was.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016


    8. Trump’s claim that his dad gave him only $1m is a lie. His trust fund was $1 mill. Dad gave $10.4m for a bogus consultant job…(1 of 2)— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016

    ..guaranteed $70 m loan, got him $35m credit line, laundered $3.35mill 2 Don in illegal casino deal, loaned $7.5m more (never repaid.) 2/2— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016

    through to…

    97. Trump’s only public company never made any $ and wiped out investors. Through management deals, Trump sucked $80mill out of company.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016

    98. When banks shut Trump out of loans because of his financial mismanagement, he started obtaining $ from Cayman Islands.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016

    99. Trump’s companies destroyed or hid 1000s of emails and documents demanded in official proceedings in defiance of court orders.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016

    100. Trump’s use of deception & false affidavits, as well as the hiding or improper destruction of documents, dates back to at least 1973— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016

    I will be taking another break from posting the findings of my Trump investigations published in Newsweek. Feel free to read all so far.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 7, 2016


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