web analytics

Vote smart: The Maori seats

Written By: - Date published: 2:26 pm, November 2nd, 2008 - 32 comments
Categories: election 2008, vote smart - Tags:

Each of the Maori seats presents an opportunity for tactical voting for a left-wing voter.

If you favour the Maori Party candidate in your seat, and you think you can trust them to support working with a Labour-led government, then go ahead and vote for them. But give your party vote to the Greens or Labour. Not only will this signal to the Maori Party that you want them to work with the Left, not National, it can help the Left win more seats. Because the Maori Party is set to win so many electorate seats compared to its share of the party vote, giving it your party vote too won’t get it any more seats. Rather than waste your party vote, give it to another left-wing party that you like and help them gt more seats.

32 comments on “Vote smart: The Maori seats”

  1. dave 1

    If you favour the Maori Party candidate in your seat, and you think you can trust them to support working with a Labour-led government, then go ahead and vote for them

    why? the vote wont even be reallocated. You may as well vote for the Bill and Ben Party or the National party in a seat that they are never going to win – like a Maori Seat (heh)

  2. Robin Grieve 2

    Yes a clever way to get more votes. It gives those in the Maori seats 2 votes while we white people only get 1. Might work once but will probably signal the death of Maori seats. Also any voting manipulation to undermine the will of the people is undemocratic ( I suppose that is why so popular with an oppressive left wing lot like labour) could be the death of MMP. Yes it could work once but the long term cost will be a return to FPP.

    Anyway why would Maori want labour? It is labour that have got them where they are now and they don’t seem particularly happy about that,it would be different if they could get good healthcare, education, law and order, work, etc. If they vote as they always have they will get what they have always had but if they want a new and decent future they won’t get that from labour or greens.
    Say high to Batman and my condolences how Helen has dumped on him again. When is he going to stand up to her? Be a man Batman!

  3. Anita 3

    dave,

    I think the point kinda missed in the original post is that in seats where Labour has a shot at winning there is an argument, if you believe that the Māori Party will coalesce with LPG, that the best outcome for the LPGM bloc as a whole is for the M candidate to take the electorate votes and for all the party votes to go to L, P or G (but not M).

    Basically the LPGM bloc benefits from the biggest possible Māori Party overhang  they’re free extra disproportionate LPGM seats.

    If you believe the LPGM bloc exists 🙂

  4. Robin. 70 % of Maori say they want Labour. If you can’t understand why, maybe you should get to know some.

    dave. I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I’m saying give your candidate to the Maori Party and party vote to Greens or Labour.

  5. lprent 5

    Dave: I think that your understanding of the MMP and overhangs is quite flawed. In fact I’d say that you’re still thinking FPP.

    It will help any party that hits 5% and doesn’t overhang. In other words any non-micro party that isn’t Act, United Future, Progressive, or the Maori party and is likely to get or exceed the 5% threshold. I don’t think Winston is likely to win Tauranga…

    Since there are still a lot of voters that don’t vote in the Maori electorates, voting tactically there will probably turn the election provided that they use their votes well.

    Of course it isn’t likely to help the Nats… They’d prefer if the maori electorates had a low turnout.

  6. yeah, Anita, I’m not endorsing the Maori Party candidates explicitly because they won’t state a preference for working with the Left.

  7. Anita 7

    lprent,

    Huh? 🙂

    Arguably an overhang disadvantages every party that doesn’t overhang. Each seat is a smaller proportion of the total number, so is slightly less influential.

    Let’s say a party’s party vote gives them 35 seats  they kinda deserve 35/120 of the influence, instead they’ll get 35/(120+overhang) of the influence.

  8. Anita. your point that the effect on proportionality is small is an important one.

    The difference between 35/120 and 35/125 is only 1% (29% vs 28%)

  9. Anita 9

    SP,

    What say it’s the difference between the government and opposition benches?

    To echo 08wire for a moment, if NUFAct gets more than half the 120, but LPGM get more than half the 120+overhang, that’s a pretty big deal.

  10. lprent 10

    Anita: You’re correct – busy day getting ready for e-day

    It will help any party that hits 5% and doesn’t overhang that gets voted for in a overhang seat.

  11. gobsmacked 11

    Robin said:

    “any voting manipulation to undermine the will of the people is undemocratic”

    Actually, voting IS the will of the people. It’s nothing else but.

    If people freely express their will in a way you don’t like, tough. I don’t like having ACT in Parliament, but if National voters in Epsom are smart enough to “manipulate” the voting, by their free choice, that is a democratic outcome.

    I will bet you anything you like that National’s claim to a Parliamentary majority (“the will of the people”) will depend on their strategy of deliberately NOT winning a seat. Now that is funny.

  12. dave 12

    Anyway why would Maori want labour?

    Here’s why the Maori Party wouldn’t want Labour. They`d be more likely to get the Maori seats entrenched if they went with Nationa.l

    Helen Clark said today she supports entrenchment of the Maori Seats. Thats why. The Maori Party go with Labour then National already have an official policy of not entrenching the seats and will oppose it. Since Parliament must pass the 75% entrenchment provision with 75% at some point in the process National can and will veto it.

    But…If the Maori Party go with National – and the only reason they would is if they agree (along with all their other demands) to entrench the seats – then Labour must back entrenchment or lose all the Maori seats – perhaps for a very long time.

  13. dave. no. it doesn’t take a 75% majority to entrench legislation. the section of the Electoral Act (s268(1)) that lists the entrenched sections can be amended by simple majority

  14. yeah, Anita, that would be a problem but I doubt it will come up.

  15. dave 15

    The section of the Electoral Act (s268(1)) that lists the entrenched sections can be amended by simple majority

    Its not that simple, Steve.

    To amend it thus would be unconstitutional s so it will never be amended. That section is our maximum constitutional protection. To amend it you’ll have to amend or suspend standing order 267 under standing order 4 and if anyone ever tries to do that , it will be the biggest outrage Parliament has ever seen. It’ not even worth considering.

  16. dave 16

    Steve, I misunderstood your earlier comment, sorry. It DOES take a 75% majority to entrench legislation thanks to SO 267, even though the entrenchment provision is in itself is not entrenched.
    267 Entrenched provisions
    (1) A proposal for entrenchment must itself be carried in a committee of the whole House by the majority that it would require for the amendment or repeal of the provision to be entrenched.
    (2) A proposal for entrenchment is any provision in a bill or amendment to a bill that would require that that provision or amendment or any other provision can be amended or repealed only by a majority of more than 50 percent plus one of all the members of the House.

    So, do you want to retract your 4:30pm comment?

  17. dave 17

    things gone a bit quiet Steve…. has the news just sunk in?

  18. lprent 18

    dave: If the other ‘lefties’ are like me, then today they’re feeling exhausted from the canvassing, meetings, organizing, and in my case – prep work for e-day.

    I’m just surprised that anyone has time to blog or comment at all. But that probably explains a lower than usual weekend (after yet another record week) with the right populating this weekend (and the creep in of trolls).

  19. Akldnut 19

    lprent you’re spot on there – been canvassing, delivering and preparing for e-day all week and then the wife got into me bout doing some work at home lol. Now I’m really buggered

  20. Ari 20

    While I think that voters should be aware of tactical voting options, I’m gonna have to disagree with SP on this one. I think it’s far more ethical to double-tick the Maori Party.

    Granted, I don’t think that it completely jeopardises the system to have an overhang and I think MMP will survive it just like FPP survived governments that did not have the support of the popular vote. But I believe in the principle of proportionality and small parties, and having the left take a lot more advantage from that overhang consistently would really undermine that proportionality.

  21. dave. i wasn’t aware of the SO, still don’t agree with the argument that means the Maori Party should cynically go with National.

    145 comments so far today, dave, that’s compared to 49 on your blog in the last two weeks. so, quiet is relative i guess

  22. dave 22

    Ari, I totally agree – ps the “right” don’t need to campaign – the elections is won.

  23. dave 23

    Still don’t agree with the argument that means the Maori Party should go with National.

    Why not? what part dont you agree with?

  24. Francois 24

    Can you take the ‘Maori’ Party out of the list of ‘Progressive’ party websites until they openly declare their preference for a left-wing government?

    Thanks,
    Francois

  25. lprent 25

    Francois: I put them on the progressive side based largely on their long-term voting record (which is why NZF was never there). Generally their voting record is similar to the greens outside of the specific positions each party exposes as their own. That has been acknowledged by both parties (sorry too tired to dig up links).

    I also limited the parties in the list to those with sitting members. I would have added parties who were over the 3-4% threshold on polls and could have hit the threshold.

    That is a completely arbitrary set of decisions. But there are a *lot* of parties. What I was more concerned about was that I didn’t want to clutter up the screens too much or increase the amount of download time for the site massively. It was mainly there as a convenient way to put in a link to the party website

  26. lprent 26

    akldnut:

    been canvassing, delivering and preparing for e-day all week

    I’m kind of lucky. These days I use my skillset to concentrate on making sure that the code and data for supporting all of those things are as good as I can make them for a number of electorates. It is a pretty effective use of my volunteer activist time (as is this site). Hopefully it will help give the right a nasty shock how efficent the grassroots systems and the e-day systems are at delivering votes.

    The downside is that I never really stop between elections anymore. I just keep working on the systems. But it is mostly fun – my hobby (and work) focus around code and systems

    And my partner has me putting on the open source packages (got to love OpenOffice) for her laptop at present…… 😯 Oh well bedtime.

  27. Ari 27

    Ari, I totally agree – ps the “right’ don’t need to campaign – the elections is won.

    Well, sure, but I think it’d be more helpful to the left if they continued to campaign after shooting themselves in the foot so effectively so many times recently. 🙂

  28. Lew 28

    Steve: Why is it cynical? It seems to me like the risk of short-term pain (derived from general National policy) versus the certainty of long-term gain for Māori voters (if the Nats do indeed support the entrenchment).

    It’s a complicated move, though – the māori party would cede a lot of support to Labour in the Māori electorates, which it would have to earn back gradually if it were to continue dominating those electorates. It would also give Māori electors a chance to see what National are actually about, and (if what most Māori suspect about their policy is true) firm grounds upon which to never vote for them or support them again.

    L

  29. no ideaology 29

    It would appear Helen protecting the Maori Seats into law is a very desperate act to try and make it over the line.

    This would be against the democratic rites of the majority in New Zealand. This will no doubt be seen through by the majority on Election day.

    [the other seats are entrenched under current law. The word is ‘rights’, a ‘rite’ is cultural ceremony. SP]

  30. Felix 30

    Heh. Elections are a democratic “rite” in a sense.

    I’m going to take a stab and say that the ironic misspelling in the name “no ideaology” was completely unintentional.

    Hilarious though.

  31. Lew 31

    no idealogy: How is granting all electoral seats equal protection in law anti-democratic?

    L

  32. bill brown 32

    I was reminded of this post after hearing about Key’s one sentence flip-flop regarding the entrenchment of the M seats.

    Down to < 1 second now, still 6 days to go.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

No feed items found.

  • Government to deliver family carers $2000 pay rise, expand scheme to spouses this year
    The Coalition Government is delivering this year the changes to Funded Family Care the disability sector has long-asked for, says Associate Minister of Health Jenny Salesa. “Today we are announcing the details of our big changes to Funded Family Care, including an annual average pay boost of $2,246.40 for funded ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Ko te reo kua mū: Piri Sciascia
    Minister for Māori Development Nanaia Mahuta joins te ao Māori in their sorrow as they learn of the loss of one of the great orators and spokespersons of a generation – Piri Sciascia.  “The son of Pōrangahau was a staunch advocate for Māori development and served his people for over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Minister opens new ecosanctuary at Cape Farewell
    A new ecosanctuary with a predator proof fence on Golden Bay’s Cape Farewell, which will restore a safe home for sea birds, rare native plants, giant snails, and geckos, was officially opened today by the Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage. “There has been a fantastic community effort supported by the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Pacific partners work together to provide additional support to Australia
    The NZDF continues to support the Australian Defence Force (ADF) as it battles fires in Victoria and New South Wales, including by transporting Republic of Fiji Military engineers from Nadi to Australia, announced Defence Minister Ron Mark. On Saturday morning a NZDF Boeing 757 will depart New Zealand to uplift ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kaikōura $10.88 million boost in tourism & business
    The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing $10.88 million to boost business and tourism opportunities in Kaikōura, Parliamentary Undersecretary for Regional Economic Development, Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. As part of the Kaikōura Marina Development Programme, the following two projects will receive PGF funding: A $9.88 million investment to begin the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt accounts in surplus, debt remains low
    The Government’s books are in good shape with the accounts in surplus and expenses close to forecast, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown accounts for the five months to November. The operating balance before gains and losses (OBEGAL) was above forecast by $0.7 billion resulting ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Auckland focus for first Police graduation of 2020
    The number of Police on the Auckland frontline is increasing with the graduation today of a special locally-trained wing of new constables. Police Minister Stuart Nash says the graduation of eighteen officers from Recruit Wing 333-5 means that more than 1900 new Police have been deployed since the Coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Wairarapa gets $7.11m PGF water boost
    The Provincial Growth Fund is putting $7.11 million into creating a sustainable water supply for Wairarapa, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. The following two projects will receive Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) funding: A $7 million investment in Wairarapa Water Limited for the pre-construction development of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Progress with new Police station in Mahia
    Community safety and crime prevention in the East Coast community of Mahia has moved forward with the opening of a new Police station to serve the growing coastal settlement. Police Minister Stuart Nash has officially opened the new station, which was relocated almost 20 kilometres along the coast from the nearby ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Plans to protect the future of whitebaiting announced
    With several native whitebait species in decline the Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage has today released proposals to standardise and improve management of whitebait across New Zealand. “The need for action for a healthy whitebait fishery has never been greater,” Eugenie Sage said.  “Four of the six whitebait species are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New resource for schools to increase awareness and understanding of climate change
    A new Ministry of Education resource available for schools in 2020 will increase awareness and understanding of climate change, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The resource, Climate Change – prepare today, live well tomorrow, will help students understand the effects of climate change at a local, national and global ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Getting more out of our most productive firms
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has approved the terms of reference for an Inquiry into the economic contribution of New Zealand's frontier firms. Frontier firms are the most productive firms in the domestic economy within their own industry. “These firms are important as they diffuse new technologies and business practices into ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZDF sends more support to Australia
    The New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) is sending an Environmental Health Team, a Primary Health Care Team and a Chaplain to Australia, boosting New Zealand support for the Australian Defence Force (ADF) as it battles bush fires in Victoria and New South Wales, Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand joins partners in calling for full investigation into air crash in Iran
    Acting Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Rt Hon Winston Peters says that developments suggesting a surface-to-air missile is responsible for the downing of the Ukrainian International Airlines flight in Iran is disastrous news. “New Zealand offers its deepest sympathies to the families of the 176 victims. It is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Staying connected to Australian agriculture
    Agriculture Minister, Damien O’Connor, says the Ministry for Primary Industries is continuing to stay connected to federal authorities in Australia as devastating fires affect the country.  “The Ministry is using an existing trans-Tasman forum for discussions on the agricultural impact of the fires and the future recovery phase,” says Damien ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Investment in schools – a commitment to communities
    Thousands of school-age children, their teachers and wider communities are benefiting from the Government’s multi-million dollar investment upgrading and renewing schools, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “We want New Zealand to be the best place to be a child and that means learning in warm, comfortable and modern classrooms,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand Defence Force sends support to Australia
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark today announced New Zealand is sending three Royal New Zealand Air Force NH90 helicopters and crew, and two NZ Army Combat Engineer Sections as well as a command element to support the Australian Defence Force efforts in tackling the Australian fires.  The New Zealand Defence Force ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Better access to books for blind and low vision citizens on World Braille Day
    "Today is World Braille Day and I am delighted to announce that an international treaty giving blind and low vision New Zealanders access to books and literary works comes into force today,” Minister for Disability Issues Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “Today the Marrakesh Treaty and the associated amendments to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand to send further firefighter support to Australia
    The New Zealand Government is sending a further 22 firefighters to help fight the Australian fires. “The devastation caused by these fires is taking a substantial toll on our Australian neighbours and we will continue to do what we can to assist as they deal with this extremely dynamic, dangerous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Reducing the cost of education
    Twenty-two more schools have opted into the Government’s policy of providing $150 per child to schools who don’t ask parents for donations– bringing the total number of schools in the policy to 1,585. The Ministry of Education has accepted late opt ins past the November 14 deadline from schools that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Road deaths lower in 2019, but still more work to do
    “As we enter the new decade, my thoughts are with the families, friends and communities of the 353 people who lost their lives in road crashes last year. While the number of deaths is lower than in 2018 (377), this is still a staggering loss of life,” Duty Minister Iain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • PM congratulates New Year 2020 Honours recipients
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated the diverse group of New Zealanders recognised for their contributions to the country and their communities in the New Year 2020 Honours List.   The list of 180 honours recipients includes three Dames and three Knights Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Justice Minister congratulates first Māori Supreme Court judge on New Year’s Honour
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has congratulated The Honourable Justice Joe Williams for receiving a knighthood for services to the state. Sir Joe Williams has been appointed as a Knight Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit in the New Year 2020 Honours List. “Sir Joe Williams has made an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • New Year honours for top sportspeople
    Twenty-one of New Zealand’s top sportspeople, coaches and leaders in the sporting community have been recognised in the New Year 2020 Honours List. The Silver Ferns coach Noeline Taurua has been made a Dame Companion and the former All Blacks Steve Hansen has been made a Knight Companion of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Leading architect of Zero Carbon Bill honoured
    It’s great to see ordinary New Zealanders doing extraordinary things, Minister for Climate Change James Shaw today said in response to the news that Lisa McLaren is included in the New Year 2020 Honours List for her exceptional work leading the campaign for the Zero Carbon Bill. Lisa McLaren was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Social entrepreneurs and innovation leads Pacific contribution
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the New Year 2020 Honours List highlights the valuable contribution Pacific social entrepreneurs and innovators make to New Zealand, the Pacific region and the world. “The standout common factor that underlines their contribution to Aotearoa is the value they place in their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Service to birds and bush recognised in New Year Honours
    Decades of dedication to Aotearoa’s unique birds, landscapes, and native eels is recognised in the New Year 2020 Honours List said Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage. “I’m delighted that the decades of dedication to conservation, and fantastic leadership in giving nature a helping hand is being acknowledged,” said Eugenie Sage. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago