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Whaleoil and his toilet paper

Written By: - Date published: 5:05 pm, October 31st, 2012 - 204 comments
Categories: blogs, humour, Media, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

I haven’t seen a copy of The New Zealand Truth for many years. But I guess that it has been going down the toilet under the impact of modern media channels. But now it has really started heading for the sewer – Whaleoil has been made editor.

I have to say that I think that it is an inspired choice. I always felt that the criteria for a story to be present in The Truth wasn’t about the facts or even being in the public interest. It was mostly if they were likely to be sued by someone who could actually push through a defamation suit.

Since I was a kid, the so-called “People’s paper” has been a minor irritant in the journalism sphere attacking people and institutions who wouldn’t fight back because it was somewhat pointless to do so and because doing something about the crap that they wrote actually validated it. Everyone learned to simply ignore the stories from the Truth as being a shit pit for the stupid to gloat over.

Cameron Slater is perfect as editor as he has those essential bullyboy characteristics required in abundance. He has a eye for exactly the type of crap that the Truth specialises in. High sounding but completely inaccurate bullshit where the logic of the author largely consists of making 1+1 to equal 111. And when challenged, for instance by the courts on suppression orders, he can rapidly shift from bombastic to craven.

And of course it helps to keep a high profile deadbeat off of the taxpayers tab.  I wish him well in the role..

204 comments on “Whaleoil and his toilet paper”

  1. bomber 1

    I’ve resigned and so has Ross Meurant

    • lprent 1.1

      I’m not surprised…

      Bearing in mind his previous track record of working with others, I rather suspect it will soon be a one cretin Cetacean organisation.

      • It may or may not interest you to know that the current readership is 87% 30+, blue collar men.
        Your comment;
        ” Everyone learned to simply ignore the stories from the Truth as being a shit pit for the stupid to gloat over.”
        Perfectly encapsulates the contempt that the hard left seem to treat their traditional supporters with.

        Rather than tearing a hole in your head over this you might want to consider the precedent this sets in the main stream media.
        Up until now it has only been people like Bomber offering his thoughts for the price of two boxes of beer and a single column wide piece. A blogger now has a whole paper to play with and hasn’t done it with the largesse of Clark provided money looted from the taxpayer.

        • bbfloyd 1.1.1.1

          @barnacle bill…. one…was that a truth poll? and two,… I’ve worked with hundreds of thousands of blue collar blokes… the only thing that can be relied on is that, if they were thick as young men, then that tends to be a lifelong thing….. getting more hidebound by the year…. now that you’ve stood up for the tiny percentage of blue collar workers who bother to read the truth for any more than the “personal” ads…you can stand down…. you’ve earned your pension old timer….

        • lprent 1.1.1.2

          BB you’re generalizing again.

          Firstly a 16k print run means that it is what? Less than half of the people who usually vote in one electorate. In fact it is less than half of the unique visitors than we have here every month. And that is before the usual wastage of paper. I mosly used to see the Truth because the unsold ones were used for packaging in a factory I worked at

          Secondly it is my viewpoint based on the crap that I read in the Truth years ago and the quick look I had at their site today that indicates that the stories are even more mindless than when I’d last read it.

          Thirdly I am not a “typical” left, hard or otherwise. Running through your usual dumbarse mythologies – I have never sought political office, never been in a union, never had a civil service job, and never been on a benefit apart from student allowance. I have always worked in the private sector either as a manager of some kind or sought after tech, my degrees are in science and business, and I have an aversion to anything that is unprovable and doesn’t have good numbers.

          Fourthly: Problem is that people like you and many other short term thinking RWNJ’s have convinced me to support the left because you think in the strange rigid forms of mythological bigotry as you just displayed. I just hate stupidity. The Truth always displayed just that same kind of moronic presumption….

          I see you haven’t changed…

          • bbfloyd 1.1.1.2.1

            I’m surprised by theat set of comments lprent….I thought you were smarter than that…And it is rather obvious that you have deliberately misunderstood pretty much all of my comment…. As in “the tiny percentage of blue collar workers who bother to read the truth”, =”Less than half of the people who usually vote in one electorate”….So much for generalisation…..You actually manage to augment my point…..

            And calling me a right wing nut job is seriously letting yourself down…. But not to worry, as your opinion has no bearing on reality as we on the shopfloor have to live it….

            Actually, your premise is laughable…. try harder next time to see beyond your own preconceptions….. protecting the inner circle on this site from me is just reinforcing a negative, as I represent no threat to anyones primacy…..

            You demean both of us with what amounts to a personal attack, which, for whatever reason, includes an assumption that I have included you in my comment…. At this point, if I was johnny sparkles, I would be smugly challenging you to “show me where I alluded to you at all”, and then go on to ask just what logic you use to justify your impassioned self defense, when you, quite literally, are irrelevant to my comment…..

            I am starting to think you have mistaken me for someone else….calling me a short tem thinker is rather strange, to say the least….If you would care to back that up with some anecdotal evidence, then I might have to admit that my lifelong, and abiding interest in history is all just make beleive….

            Less emotional spill… it does you no favors…..

    • ….schadenfreude….

    • sweetd 1.3

      Before you were let go Bomber? Guess that looks better on the CV.

    • tinfoilhat 1.4

      Who are you ?

    • I don’t blame you Bomber.

      • thecard 1.5.1

        Go and carry Cunners handbag you political fag hag.

        • McFlock 1.5.1.1

          repartee like that, you really are a card! /sarc
              
          All morning to consider a comment, and that’s your effort, is it? A person with wit and intelligence like that should read Truth…
               
           

          • thecard 1.5.1.1.1

            I bow to your immense internets skills.

            You are truly a standard God and that’s The Truth.

            • McFlock 1.5.1.1.1.1

              You show respect. This is good.
                   
              Now just try to get over using gender roles and sexual orientation as derogatory statements and you might actually become worthy of moving up to the league of Herald readers…

    • Travis Poulson 1.6

      Good riddance, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out. I know how much you hate right wingers being able to voice their opinion bomber, must really piss you off no end. Farewell, you won’t be missed.

    • liberty 1.7

      Even more good news.

  2. lprent 2

    schadenfreude: pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others

    When it comes to Cameron Slater; yes indeed. After all he has spent the last 5 years being a complete dick about our authors inaccurately ‘outing’ them at every available coincidence of names. I can’t see any reason to turn the other cheek. I realise he can’t help himself because he does seem to be somewhat limited in his inability to be self-referential. It doesn’t mean I can’t express my opinion about his behavior.

    I just pity the remaining and most likely soon to be unemployed staff.

  3. bomber 3

    Are you sure you understand the meaning of the word Contrarian? Choosing not to work for Slater isn’t the guilty joy of some one else’s misfortune, it’s a sensible step by any reasoned person.

    • Yeah I am sure. I have love for Whale but neither do I for you.

      Also I found your particular schadenfreude comment toward Hurricane Sandy rather distasteful when it has so far killed 48 people and destroyed many homes

      • lprent 3.1.1

        I’m less interested in the effects of Sandy than it’s causation. This isn’t exactly an unexpected situation. I’ve been saying for years that larger storms and shifting weather movements are going to be the inevitable result from a warming Arctic on the Atlantic. I’m going to be watching next years hurricane season with even more interest because the El Nino and the sunspot cycle should be peaking in time to really cause some changes in the climate patterns inaddition to the Arctic warming effects.

        For that matter I’m watching the shifts in the West Antartic Ice Sheet (WAIS) with interest to see if there is a similar shift in climate patterns for us ove rthe next decade if it follows the path of the Antartic peninsula.

        It all may come a revelation to you that weather patterns are shifting, but it has been obvious to anyone with a brain and even a wee bit of knowledge about earths sciences for decades that it was going to happen (and happen fast). While I can see that you have your brain stuffed up in the comfort of your arsehole in sympathy with the average americian politician, I prefer to live in the real world where the causes of disasters should understood and to be prepared for.

        It is only idiots like Whaleoil who prefer to be ignorant.

        • TheContrarian 3.1.1.1

          “It all may come a revelation to you that weather patterns are shifting, but it has been obvious to anyone with a brain and even a wee bit of knowledge about earths sciences for decades that it was going to happen (and happen fast). While I can see that you have your brain stuffed up in the comfort of your arsehole in sympathy with the average americian politician, I prefer to live in the real world where the causes of disasters should understood and to be prepared for.”

          Really? Doing it again Princess? Pretending I deny climate change despite me being pretty specific that I don’t several times? When all you have is strawmen….well, there you go.

          *”Yeah I am sure. I have love for Whale but neither do I for you.” That was supposed to read ‘no’ love for Whale. Heh

          • McFlock 3.1.1.1.1

            so is it more likely that the severity and location of Sandy is consistent with AGW rather than just being a business-as-usual storm?

          • lprent 3.1.1.1.2

            You didn’t read what I said again did you? You should really take the time to read the comment…Nothing in there about AGW.

            Just looking at the effects of an actual changed climate. The disappearance of the arctic sea winter ice mass and summer extents and the warming of the antartic peninsula are very well documented. Even without looking at the causation of those, we should look at what they will cause.

            Both have flow on effects into climate systems associated with them from the polar regions to the equatorial. Much more northern than southern at present. But so far I haven’t seen any US (or russian for that matter) politicians manage to do anything substantive to deal with the extreme weather that documented blocking jetstreams will cause.

            As the frequency of similar events increases they will have to start pulling their head out of their arse and deal with it. Like you, they start waffling about AGW because that is what they have been trained to do to avoid dealing with what is actually happening. They don’t put in the infrastructure required to deal with having successive “extreme” events to the level that somewhere like Cuba has historically dealt with in their hurricane season.

            Fortunately, if nothing else, the insurance will force it. They are starting to lift reinsurance premiums because they can see an actuarial lift in extreme weather frequencies far beyond historical frequencies. this is happening for everything from seashore property being hammered by hurricanes to wildfire or snowfall risks. The more extreme the weather events and damage get,the higher the premiums will rise.

            But surely, unlike a Slater or Watts or an americian hairpiece, you must be able to deal with the real world with its documented loss of the stabilizing fridge in the north.

            • Bob 3.1.1.1.2.1

              “Fortunately, if nothing else, the insurance will force it. They are starting to lift reinsurance premiums because they can see an actuarial lift in extreme weather frequencies far beyond historical frequencies. this is happening for everything from seashore property being hammered by hurricanes to wildfire or snowfall risks. The more extreme the weather events and damage get,the higher the premiums will rise” so you agree that the free market is the most effective way of controlling climate change then? Based on this, we could scrap the ETS right now.

              • lprent

                Insurance does nothing to stop climate change because it doesn’t cost perpetrators, it just makes it more expensive for victims. There is no price signal to stop greenhouse emissions.

                Using your insane logic I suppose you’d support jailing rape victims rather than rapists. I see that there are a few idiot republician politicians in the US you could support for that.

                And who knows how soon they will charge victims rather than perpetrators of climate change here. Oh wait – that describes National’s moronic changes to the ETS where they have pushed almost the entire cost directly to taxpayers. In the process they lost any price signal. Should be replaced with a straight tax on greenhouse gas generating raw materials. That would give a strong price signal.

                How about using your brain?

          • lprent 3.1.1.2.1

            Not that significant. There is a erratic drought/wet cycle to the aussie climatic pattern that hasn’t really (in my opinion) been pinned down for cause yet. But because of the geographical location, size and general lack of terrain in aussie they tend to have a highly localised climatology that is pretty unique to that continent.

            Have a peek at the slide show of the Murray here over the last decade to see what I mean
            http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/australia_ndvi.php

            The interesting area to watch in aussie is Tasmania because of the effect that Antarctica has on it.

            But this really belongs in OpenMike.

    • One Tāne Huna 3.2

      Liberal Media Bias? 😉

  4. bomber 4

    I thought you were still grumpy being smacked down on your claim that the storm had nothing to do with climate change. You deniers are very precious wee things.

    • I don’t deny climate change, can’t imagine where you might have got that silly idea.
      I even made it clear that this storm was affected by climate change. Silly Bradbury and his strawmen

  5. BM 5

    Brilliant I will look forwards to reading The Truth.
    Crank up the blow torch.

    • One Tāne Huna 5.1

      Small minds are easily amused.

      • BM 5.1.1

        Investigative journalism, something which has been severely lacking from the MSM, could be making a comeback.
        This should be applauded, obviously Slater is going to be sticking it the the left wing but hopefully if the return to old school journalism proves a success if may encourage other papers to follow suit.

        • PlanetOrphan 5.1.1.1

          LOL , Slater = Journalism.

          Not two words that should be be used in the same sentence.

          Any “Old School Journalist” would know that one M8!

          Now if you where too say “Old School Bigot in training” I’d have too agree.

        • lprent 5.1.1.2

          have you ever notice the difference between the larger blogs of the left and those of the right? A certain cooperation between people on the left and incoclastic egotists working in isolation on the right. No Minister being the only exception I know of, and that is probably because it has a leavening of left-leaners.

          Whale hasn’t exactly had a good track record of working with others either in on his blog (ask Cactus), or in his previous business experiences (please please people – stop sending me those bankruptcy papers). I suspect he will have the same ego problems with this venture as well. You never know, he may wind up with some people who can work with him. But I wouldn’t hold your breath.

          • PlanetOrphan 5.1.1.2.1

            Everytime I think about him being and editor I start laughing so hard that holding my breath is an impossibility. 😀

            I quick scanned WhaleOil (The name makes me puke), and the comments and articles left me feeling sick. Haven’t scanned any RW blogs since.

            I’ve braced myself and started reading the Herald again, it’s all I can stomach at the mo.

            Those sites deserve an “Anger Management Alert” in the header M8!

          • insider 5.1.1.2.2

            Maybe the left cant think up enough ideas on their own to make their blogs viable 🙂

            Note farrar has a few low profile helpers on his

            • lprent 5.1.1.2.2.1

              I suspect it is because we have lives beyond blogging and being a media ego.

              Almost all of the 42 past and present authors work. This makes it difficult to pump out posts like Farrar and Slater. I find that I have vastly more ideas for posts than I have time to write. I usually barely have time to read the comments. The other authors I know have the similar issue because they work hard or have other restrictions on their time. And we don’t get paid for what we do here.

              I’ve been aware that there have been a few people working on Kiwiblog at various times. But how long has David been running his site? 2003? I guess he doesn’t make decisions in a hurry or has a budgetary constraint.

              • Rich

                I think it’s our tax money that keeps Kiwibleagh going – convenient government polling contracts whenever the burger budget gets a bit low. Suspect the same thing will happen with Truth, or at least bungs from whichever National faction Slater is in with.

        • thatguynz 5.1.1.3

          Seriously? You use whaleoil as the paragon of investigative journalism? Dear mother of god..

          Methinks that explains a lot.

          • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.3.1

            +1

            • McFlock 5.1.1.3.1.1

              +1 with a bonus +1 for “what the flying fuck planet is that fucking delusional fucked fuck on????”

          • jbc 5.1.1.3.2

            lololol… until now I didn’t realise the Truth was still in print, and I can’t bring myself to read anything of Whale’s. A perfect match.

            “the Truth”, Whale, and investigative journalism… bwahahaha.. will they print it two-ply?

            Next headlines: “Human head put on whale’s body.” ? “Lockwood Smith is a robot!” ? “John Key’s school cert marks revealed!!”

  6. terryg 6

    Bwahahahahaha!

    thats…..just……hilarious. A newspaper (just because I dont like the content doesn’t mean its not a newspaper) hiring Cameron Slater as editor. someone who CANT SPELL, and is incapable of constructing a complete sentence unaided (and, I suspect, aided). All hail Tpyo, god of the internet.

    OTOH I guess this means Cameron Slater is no longer a member of the “bludging beneficiary” class he has spent so long deriding.

  7. Colonial Viper 7

    Who the hell owns this paper? Who the hell is on the Board?

  8. Vicky32 8

    I am just amazed to discover that the Truth is still going! I thought it was long dead…

    • I never knew it existed till today.

      • PlanetOrphan 8.1.1

        Oh no, Camerons’ improved the “Truth” rating already M8! 😀

        He’s probably wanted to run a tabloid since he was a kid M8, I wonder how many “Elvis” babies – “The Truth” stories are out there”?

      • millsy 8.1.2

        Not missing much….

    • Eddie 8.2

      The original New Zealand Truth (which started off leftwing and half a million readers at its peak in the 20s before it became a cheap, ultra-reactionary imitation of the Sun in the 60s) collapsed about a decade ago.

      This new paper with a similiar name and style has been going about 5 years. With a claimed print run of 16,000 a week, its readership is significantly smaller than that of a major blog.

      • insider 8.2.1

        In the 60s and 70s the hacks got special pay ahead of award rates – dirt money due to the reputation issues it created. Jock Anderson of the NBR is a former staffer

        It was part owned by porn merchant Steve crow until recently. I noticed there was still a crow involved. Not sure if a relative.

  9. millsy 9

    Congratulations Whale. Really. You have pretty much found your dream job. Good luck. Just remember you may be able to get away with the shit you pull on your blog, but you wont be able to do it in your paper — you have things like advertisers and the Press Council watching over you.

  10. Chalupa Batman 10

    I can see the sweaty masses of lefties clambering to buy his first copy just to see what he puts in…

    • millsy 10.1

      Not this one.

    • Deano 10.2

      Nope. I wouldn’t even know where to buy one.

      The funny thing is, anything worthwhile is far more likely to be seen on a major blog like The Standard, Kiwiblog, Public Address, or Whaleoil, than in Truth

      • OneTrack 10.2.1

        The funny thing is, anything worthwhile is far more likely to be seen on a major blog like The Standard, Kiwiblog, Public Address, or Whaleoil, than in The Herald

        • Bob 10.2.1.1

          I couln’t agree more, MSM needed a major shake-up, not sure how Cameron Slater will go as an Editor, but I hope he at least tries to bring some balanced (don’t see it happening, but he has been known to attack National from time to time) investigative journalism back into NZ, not the tabloid rubbish based on one side of the story (left or right, they just never seem to bother asking for both sides of any story, it’s their job, is it that hard!) that we get now.

          Will watch this one with interest.

          • Colonial Viper 10.2.1.1.1

            What is up with this out of the blue meme of Slater suddenly becoming not just a journalist overnight, but an investigative journalist?

            Maybe he’ll become a colour offset printer while he’s at it, now he has a newspaper???

            Of course Slater will attack National from time to time, when its anything to do with Boag.

            • Bob 10.2.1.1.1.1

              Fair call CV, maybe it’s just the fact that MSM has fallen so low that anyone that actually challanges the status quo obtains the title of Investigative Journalist now. It has got to the point where I read The Standard and WhaleOil each day just to try and get two sides to a story rather than bothering with MSM, which I just use as sound bites of any other ‘news’ I might be interested in.

    • fatty 10.3

      I’d say the people who are stupid enough to buy that piece of trash are also stupid enough to fall for Donkeys ‘personality’

  11. Chalupa Batman 11

    Wow you guys are really afraid…

    • PlanetOrphan 11.1

      You can’t handle the “Truth” M8! 🙂

    • Colonial Viper 11.2

      Yes, you might piss your pants out of fear; but in this case we’re just doing it laughing.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 11.3

      Truth is a bit stale. Like the newspaper equivalent of shag carpets and large gold neckchains.

      Guys getting a paper to ogle the page 3 girl is soooo pre-internet of them. There readership must surely consist of a group of grade B creakers.

      • bbfloyd 11.3.1

        I bought a copy in 2004, had just arrived back, as i hadn’t seen it in years…. nearly half the paper was “personal” advertising…. not much different from before, just uglier, and( hard to believe it possible) even more reactionary in it’s editorial policies…..

        I wouldn’t give it to a homeless man for wipe…..it would leave a stain…

        But as a mouthpiece for the national party, it could conceivably be an excellent vehicle to spread misinformation….run the tories smear campaigns for them, spread the gospel of reactionary, intolerant, conservatism,…… and make a good earn from the ads meantime……

        That all sounds like something any “sweaty lefties” should hate,..except for one shining miracle …..They installed the best editor possible, to ensure that whatever they try will all end up smelling like the scratch’n’sniff version of the “ralph and herbie” sketch…. There is a god….

        • weka 11.3.1.1

          But as a mouthpiece for the national party, it could conceivably be an excellent vehicle to spread misinformation….run the tories smear campaigns for them, spread the gospel of reactionary, intolerant, conservatism,…… and make a good earn from the ads meantime……
           
           

          Yeah, that’s what I reckon. May as well rename it Dog-Whistle Weekly.

          • McFlock 11.3.1.1.1

            so the old “WO-KB-Herald” pipeline becomes “media reports say…”

            That one has a pretty quick expiry date, I’d say.

  12. Dead Pan Walking 12

    Fuck up you homeless parentless brotherless schooling project, you are used as a ‘learning curve’ for my child. You are disposable. Who created you? Who has the power to destroy you? Your expiry date is nearly up.

    ta ta…you fucking loser.

    [lprent: My favourite spambot… Oh well I’ll leave it up and autospam the e-mail. Doesn’t it read just like Cam. ]

  13. Te Reo Putake 13

    I trust his employers have inserted a 90 day clause in his contract. It might the first and only legitimate use of it. That said, I suspect Truth will get a sales lift, at first, but getting his illiterate and spoon fed blog followers to stump up for a subscription will be a big ask. And subs are where the working money for a title comes from and the best indicator of success.

  14. Policy Parrot 14

    Appointing Slater as the editor of the “Truth” confirms its credibility is fast approaching that of its larger Soviet-sponsored synonym – Pravda.

    I thought Wishart was looking for work?

  15. the sprout 15

    The truth will make a much juicier, lucrative target for defamation cases than WOBH ever could be.

    If slater uses his standard mo at the truth it could prove costly for them.

    • Pete 15.1

      If Waitakere Man is more than just a construct of Chris Trotter’s, The Truth is a vehicle to court his attention. With a heavy focus on sport, it may draw in a key left constituency along with Maori and Pasifika as well. Not everyone reads political blogs or sits in front of a computer all day with relatively easy access to the internet. If there’s copies of a paper at the dairy or one guy just leaves it in the smoko room, it’s going to reach a lot more people on struggle street than anyone on the left can match at present. This is a challenge. Quarterly or twice yearly union publications aren’t really going to be able to compete with a weekly diatribe against the left.

  16. AsleepWhileWalking 16

    I would have picked Michael Laws as editor. Similar vile attitude but of a much higher caliber.
    Although….ML is probably too classy for The Truth (!)

  17. Logie97 17

    Another oxymoron to be added to the list.

  18. North 18

    An ugly white moral thug !

    Hey…….that’s “Truth”.

  19. North 19

    Skinny wee ShMichael’s gonna be deputy. Imagine the editorial meetings. There’s gonna be blood right up the walls.

    Fuck you Oil !……Fuck you Bitch !……..such fun in Mad Land !

  20. Pete 20

    The Truth was founded in Wellington in 1905 by Australian publisher John Norton. It is currently owned by Truth Weekender Ltd. Truth Weekender only has one director, David Crow of Kaukapakapa. It has two shareholders, Horton Media Ltd and Pravda Ltd, each holding 50 shares.

    Horton Media has three directors, Geoffrey Cope of Albany, Matthew Horton of Ascot, Queensland and Michael Horton of Auckland. Horton Independent Trustees Ltd holds all the shares of Horton Media. Samuel Bassett, Lewis Grant and Matthew Horton are the directors of HIT and quarter shares of the trustee company are held by Geoffrey Hatten, Craig Hemphill, Atul Mehta and Samuel Bassett. I assume they are the trustees and whoever are the beneficiaries of the trust are is not a matter of public record.

    Pravda has one director, David Crow, who is also the sole shareholder.

  21. Bob 21

    lprent, I’m confused, “And of course it helps to keep a high profile deadbeat off of the taxpayers tab” does that count as bene bashing? Or is it only when its someone you don’t ‘know’ and therefore would remove the words ‘high profile’ that a line like that would become bene bashing?
    Whale Oil has been a well documented sufferer of depression, does that me you are picking on a sickness beneficiary here? Remember what happened when David Shearer tried that, commentors on this blog were outraged, and yet no-one seems to mind in this case, I am just trying to figure out if this would be classed as hypocracy? (not calling anyone a hypocrite, hypocracy is different, Lockwood Smith taught me that)

    • lprent 21.1

      Unlike David Shearer, I have had a chance to observe Cameron’s work directly over the past five years. I have not observed any obvious reason why he could not find employment with adequate supervision (to prevent a repitition of the reason he got the condition in the first place) in recent years.

      Clearly this was an opinion that was shared by his insurance company who had a better opportunity than I did to observe his medical condition and eventually cut off support, clearly confident that they had fulfilled their obligations.

      This opinion about his medical condition appears to even be shared by Cameron himself. He has remarked a number of times in posts that his medications appear to be more of problem than whatever condition he had, and that he was slowly kicking them.

      Depression, while quite debilitating, doesn’t prevent you from working in the way that something like a back injury, shakes or fits from a brain tumour, or heart attack does (which slowed me down a lot for a few months). It makes it hard but not impossible. I managed to program all the way though a clinical level of severe depression in the 90’s. I could see the signature traits in Cameron’s blogging years ago. However it hasn’t been particularly apparent for most of the last few years.

      I’ve been of the opinion that if he has been drawing a benefit recently then it had more to do with either:-

      An addiction to blogging (which his crazed numbers of posts tends to support),
      or
      A rampant egotism that made it impossible to see himself in any other position than fully in control that made it impossible for him to be a mere employee or even to cooperate with a peer (eg gotcha)

      Neither possibility has been eliminated by this job. But both are far more lifestyle choices rather than medical or situational issues that prevent one from working.

      But no. I don’t think it is bene bashing. While I have never talked to Cameron Slater, I have observed his public persona pretty closely for years and read quite a lot from others who have do met him. I think he has just been idling around and not focusing on what he wants to in the real world for quite a while. Probably the best thing that happened to him was his insurance companies decision.

      As a side issue, hopefully I am wrong, but I suspect he may not have the appropiate people or budgetary skills to make this job a success. It does feel more like an act of last ditch organizational desperation than a strategy. Hopefully he will think through what happens if it fails to work out beforehand, and look less like stunned mullet than he did after the last time.

      • Bob 21.1.1

        Well put, I can see your reasons, and I will put everyone else’s lack of comment on that statement down to the shock/fear/disgust at Whale Oil being given an editorial role (or just outright hatred of the man himself).

        With regards to your statement “As a side issue, hopefully I am wrong, but I suspect he may not have the appropiate people or budgetary skills to make this job a success”, I tend to agree with you, but as I have said already, I hope he is successful for no other reason than to hopefully give the MSM a shake-up and move them away from the tabloid crap they have become.

        • felix 21.1.1.1

          “for no other reason than to hopefully give the MSM a shake-up and move them away from the tabloid crap they have become.”

          lolwut Bob?

          You think putting the most tabloid-style blogger in charge of an actual tabloid newspaper is going to do anything like that?

          Between that absurdity and some of the other obvious bullshit you’ve been writing in support of the Slater child, I’m beginning to doubt your sincerity.

      • just saying 21.1.2

        …Depression, while quite debilitating, doesn’t prevent you from working in the way that something like a back injury, shakes or fits from a brain tumour, or heart attack does (which slowed me down a lot for a few months). It makes it hard but not impossible. I managed to program all the way though a clinical level of severe depression in the 90′s. I could see the signature traits in Cameron’s blogging years ago. However it hasn’t been particularly apparent for most of the last few years…

        With respect LPrent, like back injuries, not all cases of clinical depression are created equal, not in the range of symptoms and how they manifest, nor the course, nor the severity.

        At one end of the scale, depression renders the sufferer incapable of anything – going to the toilet, eating, dressing, anything at all. In this kind of case the sufferer’s condition has to improve dramatically for them to become relatively well enough to kill themselves.

        Don’t know anything about Cam’s situation. He’s a proven serial bullshitter, so I’d have difficulty accepting his version of anything as necessarily being an honest account. However it is certainly possible for clinical depression to render one incapable of working.

        • TheContrarian 21.1.2.1

          Quite, depression can be extremely debilitating and you are applying what you consider ‘bene-bashing’ somewhat unevenly.

          Shearer commenting on a guy on a roof – bene-bashing
          Slater drawing on a benefit for depression – he could probably work, the bludger.

        • felix 21.1.2.2

          Yeah I agree, Lynn your opinion is your opinion but you’re not the Slater child’s doctor so it doesn’t count for squat, any more than the Shearer/Pagani brain-fart did.

        • lprent 21.1.2.3

          I know that it can make it impossible to work or do anything. I have been close to that a few times. However Cameron managed to run a blog soon after his old companies bankruptcy which tends to indicate that he never got to those depths. And with depression, although it never feels like it at the time, people usually climb out out of it and adjust to its flare ups.

          But I have a wee set of horror situations that I have seen others get and that I hope I never be in are less tractable.

          • TheContrarian 21.1.2.3.1

            “However Cameron managed to run a blog soon after his old companies bankruptcy which tends to indicate that he never got to those depths.”

            And the beneficiary Shearer complained about was able to work on the roof.

            Again like Felix said the only person able to comment is Cam’s doctor. Not you.

            • lprent 21.1.2.3.1.1

              With your usual lack of attention to detail you managed to ignore my actual comments about Shearer’s roof painter speech. That was pretty blunt at the time.

              I’ll summarize it for you. I said that David Shearer said he was forming a judgement based on nothing more than hearsay and that both he and probably his large staff were being quite stupid and irresponsible to do so. Because of his position it was appalling to see someone apparently making policy using hearsay and without bothering to learn anything about the case. That the inclusion of that anecdote in the speech appeared to owe more to muckraking politics than it did to any meaningful consideration of the facts of the sickness benefit. Also that given what David Shearer had said, it was likely that the only person who could make an assessment of the roof painters ability to hold down a fulltime job would be his doctor (which is what I suspect is what felix actually said rather than your sloppy misinterpretation).

              I’ve observed Cameron running a blog and putting out lots of daily posts throughout the day in a reasonably capable fashion for years. I know exactly how hard that set of tasks can be. I think he has perfectly capable of holding down a fulltime job for quite some time. And I’m not a politician so don’t owe the same duty of care to the public in what I say.

              It doesn’t appear to me that few minutes observation from the other side of the road and some hearsay by the leader of the opposition (even an inexperienced one) are quite different to my observations of many years (and that is before considering Cam’s own self-diagnosis on his site). Perhaps you’d care to explain your logic for disagreeing (cue avoidance behaviour).

              But I suspect that it is simply that you’re being as incompetent and as sloppy about relevant detail as usual.

              • felix

                Lynn, you can make whatever observations you like for as long as you like but it still counts for nothing unless you are Slater’s doctor, which as far as I know you’re not.

                Get a grip man, you don’t have special knowledge of this situation that lends your opinion any more weight than any talkback caller.

                • lprent

                  Actually I suspect that in this particular case I do. It isn’t anything particularly different from the situation that most employers find themselves in at some point or another with their employees, or for that matter WINZ staff and even doctors wind up doing. At some point you make an assessment based on what you know at the time for a particular purpose. You’re never going to know everything, but you still have to make judgement calls on a case by case basis.

                  (I always remember one guy insisting that he could run a very large mixing vat from above when his balance was clearly somewhat dodgy because of a cold. After watching him nearly fall in I learnt that people weren’t always the best people to make judgements about their own conditions).

                  What I tend to object to is people making up their judgements on particular instances based not on what they actually know and mostly on what they presume from their prejudices. That tends to be talkback’s usual position, and apparently what David Shearer did as well.

                  But this is a place where we can agree to disagree. Why do you think a doctor is the only person capable of assessing someone’s ability to work? After all your average GP tends to spend only a few minutes with any patient and most of their diagnostic information is based on hearsay from the patient.

                  • “Why do you think a doctor is the only person capable of assessing someone’s ability to work? ”

                    Because a doctor has a better training in depression, and better understanding of Slater’s mental state, than Lynne of The Standard.

                    ‘I think he has perfectly capable of holding down a full-time job for quite some time. ” Well what you think is irrelevant.

                    Like Felix said, get a fucking grip and why can’t you lay of insulting others when they have different opinion?

                    • lprent

                      …why can’t you lay of insulting others when they have different opinion?

                      Because you seldom explain your opinions and how and why you arrived at them. Just “because I think so” is something that I consider to be rather insulting to others when put into a public or even private debate.

                      I tend to not “insult” people whose opinions are expressed with some appearance of being considered ones rather than some meaningless crap dredged off talkback or a website by someone too lazy to think the topic through. I also tend to goad people who don’t think.

                      So we’re going for the diversion as the avoidance behavior today?

                    • What’s to explain?

                      Cam Slater was judged to be suffering depression to the extent that he was unable to hold down a job and took up a sickness benefit.

                      You, Lynne, deemed him to be capable of work based upon…your opinion….which a couple of people have now pointed out to be total bullshit and outside of your qualification.

                  • higherstandard

                    “After all your average GP tends to spend only a few minutes with any patient and most of their diagnostic information is based on hearsay from the patient.”

                    Well Lynn as a medical professional I disagree totally with that comment but what would I know compared to a someone who in their won words is

                    “….a science grad, ex-army, ex-factory manager, a Otago MBA, a hell of a hardcore programmer, occasional CTO or lead programmer or team leader when I can’t get out of it, and has been around the net and it’s predecessors since about 1980.”

                    Why don’t you set up a clinic I’m sure you’ll be overwhelmed with patients flocking to pay homage to your all round awesomeness.

                    • I haven’t meet an arrogant so in love with himself like Lynne in sometime now. It’s a wonder for all his amazing skills (add medicine and psychology to the list as he has diagnosed Slater merely through reading his blog posting) he is left running The Standard instead of joining the lucrative conference circuit.

                    • lprent

                      Well Lynn as a medical professional I disagree totally with that comment but what would I know..

                      Ok so you disagree. But why?

                    • felix

                      “Ok so you disagree. But why?”

                      Not answering for hs, but your statement makes some enormous assumptions.

                      Firstly, you have no idea how much time any particular patient spends with any particular doctor. Different complaints and conditions require vastly different amounts of time and vastly different frequency of consultation.

                      Secondly, who said anything about a GP anyway? Medical certificates are completed by a range of medical professionals including GPs, but also including psychiatrists, specialists, midwives and others. And again you have no idea how much time any of these professionals spend with any particular patient or how often.

                      All assumptions you are in no position to make.

                    • lprent []

                      And I’d agree. It is usually rather more than a simple GP visit (which was what I was trying to entice HS into discussing). I was rather exaggerating for effect for TC.

                      But the point I was originally trying to make was that with many maladies specifically including depression, there is very limited range of diagnostic techniques that can be used. You can test for serotonin levels and other blood chemistry, and maybe you’ll get something if you use a resonance scan or the like to look for a physical cause. But much of the time you’re pretty much limited to what the patient looks like and tells you. Seeing that in a doctor/patient context for relatively short periods of time even by a professional isn’t likely to be more useful than longer periods of observation by lay people observing them actually doing things.

                      At least with a back injury or tumour or something that is physical there is something that a doctor can focus on and assess likelihoods of good work outcomes with.

                    • King Kong

                      Lprent, its getting quite hard to hear you from down that massive hole you have dug yourself.

                      I guess for all the amazing degrees and life experience you have never mastered the ability to acknowledge or apologise when you are being a complete hypocrite.

                    • “Seeing that in a doctor/patient context for relatively short periods of time even by a professional isn’t likely to be more useful than longer periods of observation by lay people observing them actually doing things.”

                      So you ‘observing’ Cam Slater via his blog is enough for you to diagnose him to the same extant that a GP and a shirk are able too?

                      Wow, hubris much?

                    • felix

                      Yeah sorry Lynn that’s just bullshit. Medically unqualified bullshit, no different to Shearer/Pagani’s.

                    • mike e

                      I was thought like Camoron Slater i know i would be Depressed!
                      No argument from me !
                      I’d prescribe a week in a state house in the poorest st in New Zealand for him Cognitive behaviour therapy to find out what its like to be poor and depressed no running home to millionaire! daddy either

          • KJT 21.1.2.3.2

            Trying to work while depressed is an excellent way for someone to ensure that they get such a bad reputation that they will never work again.

            Especially if they are someone like a tradesperson who’s ability to attract customers is only as good as his/her last job.

            I have a few friends in that position.

            • lprent 21.1.2.3.2.1

              It is always a risk. And even more so these days for tradespeople with sites like that nocowboys site around.

              However the countervailing risk is that being off work for a long period of time makes employers far less likely to hire someone as well. And it also means that you lose the habits and skills that allow you to work effectively as well.

              Often the best alternative if you can’t hold down a fulltime job is find something to volunteer to work on. You can still use it on the CV and you can usually find something that keeps skills alive. Volunteer positions are much more tolerant of relapses, and it is a damn sight better than staring at walls.

              • So above you judge Cam Slater OK to work based upon him maintaining a blog, a volunteer effort, while suffering depression

                And now you are saying if someone can’t hold down a full-time job “… find something to volunteer to work on. You can still use it on the CV and you can usually find something that keeps skills alive. Volunteer positions are much more tolerant of relapses, and it is a damn sight better than staring at walls.”

                Hmmm….

                • lprent

                  At last something substantive from you that isn’t merely avoidance behaviour…. Congratulations. However it is still misguided.

                  Did you notice that I’d said that it is only in the last few years (out of the 5 I have noticed him) that I think he has been capable of holding down a fulltime job? If you look back in the conversation you should be able to locate it (and it will be a good exercise for your brain).

                  It pays to look at the details of what people actually write rather than just blathering on about what you think that they’re writing or what you think that they should have written. It appears to be a common criticism that I see from others about your comments.

                  • So you must have missed this yourself:

                    “Cam Slater was judged to be suffering depression to the extent that he was unable to hold down a job and took up a sickness benefit.

                    You, Lynne, deemed him to be capable of work based upon…your opinion….which a couple of people have now pointed out to be total bullshit and outside of your qualification.”

                    That, you renaissance man you, is the crutch of the issue.

                    Your insults aside…which demean only yourself.

                    • lprent

                      It obviously wasn’t something I wrote so I presume you’re trying some kind of appeal to a “higher authority” (a common avoidance pattern). Although quite what that has to do with my personal opinions is something that I can’t quite see and something that you don’t appear to be addressing. It looks like I was congratulating you too early. You appear to be back in avoidance mode again.

                      Perhaps you should provide some context? Like a link for instance. Google doesn’t provide any link for that quote.

                    • The Baron

                      So let me try then Lynn – as someone who has dealt first hand both with my own depression and with someone close to me.

                      You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about, and your insights based on your egotistical views of what running a blog requires are frankly irrelevant. Your opinions on him as a depression sufferer are demeaning and offensive. And your defense of your behaviour is puerile.

                      I have every confidence in your opinions as a fellow blogger – on that score, you can comment on his style, opinions and methods as much as you like. I disagree, but that’s fair game.

                      But this ignorant hypocritical crap criticising him on the basis on what may be a harrowing affliction? Too far. The appropriate thing to do would be to withdraw and apologise for those aspects of your comments. You are offending and hurting people that don’t need your ill-informed “opinions”.

                    • lprent []

                      …criticising him on the basis on what may be a harrowing affliction? Too far. The appropriate thing to do would be to withdraw and apologise for those aspects of your comments.

                      Umm so that is what I should have expected when I chanced across Cameron wishing that I had a second heart attack earlier this year in comment on his site? Good to know.

                      You are offending and hurting people that don’t need your ill-informed “opinions”

                      My immediate thought at the time was for Lyn who had the rather horrifying experience of keeping me alive until the ambulance arrived. It was about the time of finding that comment I decided that being nice about Cameron wasn’t a particularly good strategy. If he wanted to act like a complete arsehole then he should be treated in the same way he treats others.

                      I have every confidence in your opinions as a fellow blogger – on that score, you can comment on his style, opinions and methods as much as you like. I disagree, but that’s fair game.

                      So that is exactly what I am doing. I am operating exactly as Cameron does. But evidently it works that way only if I do as you say, and not as Cameron does right?

                      …ignorant hypocritical crap…

                      Ah yes. Somehow I never see you condemning Cameron Slater for his excesses. Just people on the left – could you please explain your position?

                      Mind you I rather expect to get a Pete George response

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The Baron, who happily kicks into marginalised people who are down and out, wants sympathy and understanding for Slater, who normally kicks into marginalised people who are down and out.

                      The karmic irony.

                    • felix

                      If The Baron feels offended and hurt then at least this discussion has been good for something.

                    • Jackal

                      It was about the time of finding that comment I decided that being nice about Cameron wasn’t a particularly good strategy.

                      Well said 1prent.

                      Cameron Slater is a worthless piece of lecherous scum that deserves no sympathy for his self-inflicted depression. He’s a muckraker that wallows in the sewers of gutter journalism and is well suited to the tabloid trash known as the unTruth, which will soon be even more irrelevant because of him.

                      Slater will try to use the same libelist and defamation tactics and will soon find that there’s far more recourse for those he attacks. He will learn the hard way that his trolling cannot survive outside of his sespit of a blog.

                      As for his cheerleaders like the Baron and TheContrarian… You’re entirely pathetic! Why don’t you fuck off and get a life instead of telling other people how to think and what to write all the time. Just like whale-blubber, you’re narcissistic fools of the highest order… And a downright bore to read.

                    • thecard

                      Dearest Jackal

                      In you own words

                      You’re entirely pathetic! Why don’t you fuck off and get a life instead of telling other people how to think and what to write all the time. Just like whale-blubber, you’re a narcissistic fool of the highest order… And a downright bore to read.

                    • felix

                      Hi Jackal,

                      I don’t think The Contrarian is cheerleading Slater and I’m certainly not (although the Baron is pretty much on his dick for sure).

                      But you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that because Slater is a fuckwit he can be diagnosed by any ignorant casual observer unless you accept the same for everyone else too.

                      Which means Shearer/Pagani can bash away, and all the columnists and talkback monkeys can bash away, and Key and Bennett and the rest of the dirty stinking Nats can bash away and there’s nothing you can say about any of it because you’ve accepted it as legit already.

                      So if it’s all the same to you, I think I’ll stick with the agreed system where a person’s doctor gets to say what their medical condition is and everyone else can get fucked. Mkay?

                    • Thanks Felix, it is quite right I am not cheerleading for Whale.
                      I very rarely read WhaleOil and have commented once or twice. I don’t think much of him at all.

                      “Cameron Slater is a worthless piece of lecherous scum that deserves no sympathy for his self-inflicted depression.”

                      Self-inflicted?

                      Having been through many a dark period myself and having had friends who have opted for the final solution to end their depression i have sympathy for anyone afflicted with clinical depression. It isn’t nice.

                      So fuck you, Jackal.

                    • Enough is Enough

                      “Self-inflicted Depression”

                      WTF does that mean Jackal? Pull your head in. What are you going to say next…snap out of it, get over it. Those good old tonics for being a bit down.

                    • Jackal

                      felix

                      You can’t say that because Slater is a fuckwit he can be diagnosed by any ignorant casual observer unless you accept the same for everyone else too.

                      1prent is obviously not just “any ignorant casual observer”. Being that an opinion on somebody else is often what blogging is all about, what qualifications are required to judge whether somebody is fit for work or not?

                      Clearly the amount of posts Slater manages each day shows that he’s capable of work in some capacity. Obviously the fact that he has recently become employed at the unTruth is another indication that such an opinion is correct. So what is wrong with having that opinion felix?

                      TheContrarian

                      Having been through many a dark period myself and having had friends who have opted for the final solution to end their depression i have sympathy for anyone afflicted with clinical depression. It isn’t nice.

                      I never said depression was nice… I said Slater playing the “I suffer from depression” card all the time when much of his depression will be self-inflicted is contemptible. It makes a mockery of people who truly suffer from depression and have no way of resolving the issues that cause their depression… Namely the people that Slater often belittles like the poor and downtrodden.

                      So fuck you, Jackal.

                      No thanks.

                      Enough is Enough

                      “Self-inflicted Depression”

                      WTF does that mean Jackal? Pull your head in. What are you going to say next…snap out of it, get over it. Those good old tonics for being a bit down.

                      FFS! Do you honestly believe all that gutter-trash “journalism” isn’t soul destroying? It’s Slater’s choice to continually vomit that crap up. It is therefore his choice for his actions to make him a depressed person.

                      Don’t put words in my mouth… I never said he should just snap out of it. It’s taken a long time for him to become dysfunctional. It will take a long time before he comes right, if that’s even possible.

                      In my opinion, giving him another avenue to peddle his little bike of propaganda and stroking his overinflated ego isn’t going to resolve the problem known as Cameron Slater either.

                    • Wow Jackal. Never mind Whale, what an awful person you are

                • Jackal

                  Telling it like it is makes me an awful person? That’s like saying your claims of not being Slaters cheerleader biarch are to be believed.

                  “I don’t like Slater but he has a point…” blah blah blah! The only person you’re able to be contrary to is yourself.

                  • “Telling it like it is makes me an awful person?”

                    No saying someone is to blame for their crippling depression because the opinions they have don’t match your own makes you a disgusting human. You’re not ‘telling it like it is’.

                    • Jackal

                      Slater has in many ways crippled himself with depression and is now using that as a defense to continue to attack others in order to make them depressed as well. Misery loves company don’t you know.

                      Whether his opinions match mine is irrelevant! I’m not saying all depressed people are to blame for their ailment, being that most depression is caused from external influences. However it is my opinion that Slater’s depression is mostly self inflicted. He is clearly stuck in the third phase of the disease… Perpetuation. Saying so doesn’t make me an awful person.

                      Depression is in some ways like alcoholism… Until the sufferer owns up to the problem, finds their triggers and understands that they are often the cause of the problem continuing, they will not get better. This is pretty basic stuff TC that I thought you might already be aware of. Oh well… Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

                    • fatty

                      “However it is my opinion that Slater’s depression is mostly self inflicted”

                      Best if you don’t make assessments on people’s depression. Its a stupid thing to do. Depression is very complex.

                    • Jackal

                      Clearly Slater has promoted his depression to such an extent that it’s up for discussion. Depression is only complex if you don’t understand it. Be my guest, there’s ample research into the condition that supports my argument.

                    • fatty

                      I never said you were wrong…Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant Jackal…just because he has come out and stated that he has depression, it doesn’t make it OK to use his depression to judge him.
                      I think its good people come out and talk about it, but regardless if its whaleoil or John Kirwan, you shouldn’t be diagnosing them, and worse, blaming them for it.
                      You can do better than taking cheap shots at an illness, especially with whaleoil

                    • So we had lprent diagnosing Slater based purely on his blog posting an now we have Jackal saying depression isn’t that complex, Whale did it to himself and is now using it in self-promotion; and that he understands depression more than the sufferer.

                      That is pretty revolting, I don’t know who is worse.

                    • higherstandard

                      You and lynn should form a club Todd, I’m sure there’s many a similar genius who’d love to join up and cross swords with such eminent company.

                    • PlanetOrphan

                      @TC ….

                      Bob raised it as a defence, u cats r going on about it, sounds too me like u r the 1’s using it for “Debates” sake.

                      Drop it people, the entire thread is worthy of deletion in my humble opinion.

                    • Jackal

                      @ fatty

                      You do have a point that discussing a persons depression in their presence is not advantageous. But as I said before, because of his unrepentant nastiness, Slater deserves no sympathy.

                      I’m not diagnosing Slater (that’s already been done) nor taking cheap shots at his illness. I’m pointing out that some depressed people perpetuate their illness onto others, and I regard Slater as one of those people. That’s not a diagnosis, it’s an opinion. Are you saying that I’m not entitled to an opinion fatty?

                      If John Kirwan went around publishing libelist crap against defenseless people my opinion of him would be vastly different. Comparing him with Cameron Slater is entirely wrong! Kirwan is proactive in trying to help others through his own experience and should be commended, Slater is destructive and uses his depression as a propaganda tool… He should be criticized for that.

                    • Fucking awful. You should be ashamed of yourself

                    • Jackal

                      Ashamed of myself for what exactly TheContrarian?

                      Just to answer your abusive rant above; I didn’t say I “understand depression more than the sufferer,” because I don’t know the extent of Cameron Slater’s knowledge on the subject.

                      Let’s make it a bit clearer for your feeble mind TC… Cameron Slaters current depression is largely self-inflicted. I didn’t say that he caused his own depression in the first place, just that he is perpetuating his depression onto others and thus inhibiting his own recovery.

                      Are you able to comprehend that without foaming at the mouth TC?

                    • terryg

                      gotta agree with the “cant diagnose/judge Cams depression unless you’re its doctor” crowd. Lynne & The Jackal are in the wrong there. Sure there is more “evidence” than shearer had, but without the appropriate skills, qualifications and doctor-patient history & interaction etc, it aint a diagnosis – its just making shit up. Being closer to “not wrong” than Shearer is a far cry from being right.

                      I, too, suffer badly from depression – its at its worst right now, due to appalling external events reaching their terminal nadir. One characteristic of my depression is obsessive behaviour – such as reading every single post on a new blog. Writing blog posts is not my thing, but I can certainly see how Cams prolific posting could well be such a symptom – giving the appearance of significant “real work” despite the underlying train-wreck.

                      ergo Cams plague of putrid posts may or may not be indicative of his mental health, and diagnoses should be left to the professionals.

        • Vicky32 21.1.2.4

          At one end of the scale, depression renders the sufferer incapable of anything – going to the toilet, eating, dressing, anything at all.  In this kind of case the sufferer’s condition has to improve dramatically for them to become relatively well enough to kill themselves.

          Sadly, that’s absolutely true. I have had a family member suffer that way. 🙁

    • PlanetOrphan 21.2

      For anyone worrying about Cameron Slaters’ mental health, just have aread of “Dead Pan Walking” above and have a think about Camerons’ spam Bots.

      “Depressed” doesn’t excuse/explain that kind of behaviour/transference.

      He’s obviously been tortured by his NAZI parents just like I was.

      Tortured NAZI children like Cameron will take those pills for ever, it’s what they were taught as kids, anything less is failure.

      And they always call it “Depression” it’s obvious attention seeking

      • blue leopard 21.2.1

        Yes, that Dead Pan Walking comment is a real worry. Unclear if it really was the Slater or a joke of lprents?
        If it wasMr The Slater I simply despair that someone that disturbed is being let loose on a newspaper. Hopefully noone reads the stuff and only buys it for the pg3 girl (I take it there is one of them in that paper….its that type.

        …actually I had the same concerns before I read that comment, it simply deepened my concern.

        I can’t believe that NZ is getting as rotten as America…just can’t believe we would allow this to happen.

        • PlanetOrphan 21.2.1.1

          True M8!, and it’s definitely Cameron bud, it only shows up when we are bagging him, LP usually deletes them, but kindly left this one in for our reference.

  22. Logie97 22

    Next step is a regular spot on Jim Mora’s Panel. Just a matter of time.

  23. Dave 23

    The greasy bugger will fit in well with the boobs on page 3 and the $40 hookers in the back pages, in all honesty, I will probably pick it up in my local dairy and have a read, hopefully with no spelling mistakes.

  24. IrishBill 24

    I’m quite happy to wish Cameron good luck with his latest adventure. Given the Truth’s collapse in sales they’ve got nothing to lose by taking a risk with him (apart from a few defamation cases!) I’ll be watching this with a great deal of interest.

  25. Sanctuary 25

    All this talk of copies of Truth sitting about in smoko rooms is nonsense. Truth has an unsavory reputation for peddling tits and bums and advertisments for adult content, something that means most managers would get rid of it as soon as they saw it. One complaint from a female staff member you see…

    Cameron Slater knows nothing about running a newspaper. Appointing a blogger to run a newspaper with a comatose circulation tells me the owners are planning to fold the print edition and leverage what brand recognition it has left to try and emulate the success of the Daily Mail online, or try to be Perez Hiltonesque or (more likely) emulate the Drudge Report. If the Truth stays a print edition and Slater carries through his defamatory style, the paper (which I suspect does not have very deep pockets) will be wiped out by lawsuits (that would certainly be one of my tactics if I were, say, the CTU – sue them, knowing you’ll send them broke with lawyers fees long before you will go broke). My guess is the owners are gambling the online version will make Slater’s current site redundant and pick up a whole new audience online, whilst being online edition only will give them some protection from avalanche of lawsuits a print edition would trigger. Effectively, it will be Whaleoil re-branded and better resourced. Such an approach would tie in nicely with keeping their adult advertising as well.

    My 2c worth anyway.

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      It’s a reasonable, though stinking, business strategy.

    • insider 25.2

      I agree on the truths strateg,y which means the person wearing the biggest risk is slater.

      If truth goes down (as I think it will -having a freeloading web audience does not necessarily translate to sales success for a vehicle in terminal decline, and being able to regurgitate gossip on a blog is not the same as reliably running a crdible newsroom and associated budgets and production issues), then there is the risk for Cameron that he loses whale oil as well either materially or lost reputation and readership. Hope he has the IP and finances of whaleoil cleanly separated from the new venture.

      Of course his real self confessed dream is to be a talkback host so this could just be a bridging strategy and he doesn’t care if it succeeds because it is just a credibility building exercise for a jump not the much derided (by him) mainstream media.

    • felix 25.3

      Yes Sanctuary, I think that’s exactly what they’re thinking.

      And yes insider, I agree that Slater doesn’t give a shite whether it succeeds or not, as long as it builds his public profile.

  26. karol 26
    Bomber slams Slater’s ethics, but says “The Standard” is wrong to write off his new enterprise.  Bomber recknos Slater will be very successful in turning Truth into a “successful” right wing hate machine.
     

    He’s not a journalist, he’s a far right hate merchant whose blog borders on hate speech.

    As one of NZs only independent newspapers for 125 years, The Truth’s overwhelmingly blue collar male 30+ audience are the exact readers Labour and the left should be appealing to.

    It’ll be more popular than Mary Poppins musical tickets for single women in their 30s. What many of the detractors on the Standard fail to appreciate is that Slater is one of the best propagandists in NZ today. His ability to twist issues and appeal to people’s worst natures while pretending to be their best nature is an art that he is the undisputed king of. 
    He will make the Truth relevant again, he’ll slice through the MSM with a laser. He’ll make them look tired and irrelevant, Slater will weaponize that newspaper and start a very unique movement.
     
    He will have an impact as corrosive as Satan’s sperm and it will surprise many how successful he will be. Expect vicious personalized attacks, union bashing, Maori bashing, leftie bashing, pro gun nonsense, worship of Judith Collins, climate change denial, etc etc etc, he will inject a toxin into the public discourse that will be as addictive as it is destructive.

     
    Scary, and depressing.  Is this where NZ’s popular discourse is heading?  Just when the MSM needs a flush and re-imagining as a genuine 4th estate, it looks headed to the sewer.

  27. busman 27

    My my the comments are mounting !!! cant wait to pick up the first copy !

  28. LBC 28

    Does this mean Slater’s going to bring back the Page 3 girls?

  29. bomber 29

    Josie Pagani has replaced me as the left wing commentator in The Truth – oh I laughed so hard

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/cameron-slater-named-truth-editor-promises-overhaul-ck-131562

    • Josie Pagani is the sort of left winger the right wishes represented the left …

    • Gosman 29.2

      Considering you resigned you don’t really have any moral right to complain who he employs to replace you. Perhaps yo should have taken Mr Trotter’s advice on the issue and not acted in haste.

      • One Tāne Huna 29.2.1

        “Moral right to complain”.

        Did you read Bomber’s comment as a complaint?

        I can’t see how Josie Pagani getting the nod from Cameron Slater is a bad thing for the left.

        • Gosman 29.2.1.1

          Pretty much. The fact that he raised it strongly suggests he doesn’t regard her as being an appropriate representative of left wing viewpoints especially for a collumn he used to be responsible for.

      • KJT 29.2.2

        Gooseman. Always good for a laugh.

  30. HG 30

    You moderators need to harden up. How can you justify censoring/removing the following light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek comment:

    “High sounding but completely inaccurate bullshit” – Sounds like The Standard

    …I mean come on!! If you aren’t willing to take what you dish out then you shouldn’t dish it out at all.

    [lprent: If something winds up in auto-moderation because of the machine thinking it may be spam, then it is fair game for the moderators to do what they will with it. I usually flag dumb and mostly pointless comments directly from auto-moderation to spam because it seems pointless exerting myself to check the banned registry.

    I’d suggest that you improve the quality of your comment so it bypasses the machine’s check like this one did. A lot easier for me if you don’t write a comment that even a machine thinks is stupid. Causes me less work. ]

    • HG 30.1

      Considering the purile and often obscene nature of many of the comments on here I must admit to a certain degree of cynicism regarding your comment lprent.

      [lprent: Akismet isn’t looking for either of those two traits. It is looking for comments that look like the profile left by programmed spam. You appear to be misreading the criteria of the machine. Have a look for Akismet’s site to see what you should avoid so you don’t get viewed as being a idiot bot.

      The human moderators will look for the traits you’re describing and we will leave notes around when we find them out of line with our policy. Perhaps you should read that. ]

  31. Johnny 31

    [deleted]

    [lprent: This goes far too far into peoples private lives and doesn’t belong on a political blog. ]

  32. karol 32

    Stuff on the Truth editor’s arms dealing plan:
     

    New Truth newspaper editor Cameron Slater and former tobacco PR man Carrick Graham were behind an aborted scheme to sell NZ Army tanks to overseas military buyers.
    The pair formed a company in 2010 after Slater “had an idea” and told Graham who realised he had overseas military contacts who might be interested in the army’s under-used Light Armoured Vehicles (LAVs).

     
    I guess now that Slater is part of the competition, he can’t automatically expect support from the rest of the right-leaning MSM?
     
     
     

  33. At least National’s useful idiot is now gainfully employed and worth suing. Solicitors are being briefed..

  34. Treetop 34

    The Truth sells about 10,000 copies each edition. In the 1950s each edition was 250,000. I suspect that the truth caters for gullible people who will believe anything so it really does not matter who the editor is.

  35. Vicky32 35

    Having been through many a dark period myself and having had friends who have opted for the final solution to end their depression i have sympathy for anyone afflicted with clinical depression. It isn’t nice.
    So fuck you, Jackal.

    Agreed, TC! This ‘diagnosing’ depression as ‘nothing’ is disgusting and I am getting really angry about it.
    Like you, I’ve had friends who have found a permanent solution to theirs… 🙁
     

  36. Chalupa Batman 36

    LPRENT gets told off (and deservedly so), Cameron Slaters state of mind gets defended (again deservedly so) and I find myself in agreement with felix

    Have I wandered off into a parallel universe?

  37. weka 37

    Lynn, the problem I have with what you are saying here is not that you are attacking Slater (by all means, go for it, he deserves it, both for his politics and his personal attacks). It’s what you are doing to me as someone on a medical benefit. Like Shearer, you are legitimising the public being the judges of which ill people are worthy of support from society. Unlike Shearer you have a degree of knowledge about the person you are judging, and this seems to be the rationale for making the judgement.
     
    Nevertheless, the way it’s come across today is that anyone with five years of observation of me, from the outside, can now legitimately put me down on the basis of being a bludger (or whatever the criticism du jour is) and presumably challenge my right to a benefit. Never mind my actual reasons for being on a benefit, which are almost never visible from the outside.
     
    The principle is the principle. Either all medical beneficiaries are entitled to protection from prejudice, or any of us are fair game. Whatever reasons you have for judging Slater in a public forum, you are breaking that principle and thus laying open the way for people to also attack me and any other ill person needing support from the state.
     
    I’m aware that you slammed Shearer for his actions, and I don’t in any way consider you to be in the same group of usual bigots who fail to understand vulnerability and illness and feel entitled to hate on them. But it’s disconcerting to see the principle being broken by someone who should know better 🙁  Shearer I can put down to being an ignoramus. You I can’t, which makes it all the worse.

    • terryg 37.1

      nicely put

    • felix 37.2

      word.

    • Colonial Viper 37.3

      Goddamit none of you Lefties are going to be of any help at all in a proper bar fight, in intimidating scabs, or in confiscating the unearned, undeserved wealth of the top 0.1%.

      Accept people for who they actually are please, not for some bullshit one off comment which wasn’t even directed at you.

      Unlike Shearer, LPrent has never pretended to be a spokesperson representing NZers.

      • higherstandard 37.3.1

        No one who posts at this or the other political blogs is going to be any help in the a proper bar fight……… unless they’re wearing a high vis vest and the rest of us can use them as a guide while we all run as fast as we can.

    • lprent 37.4

      weka: Sorry about the delay – first product released yesterday. We were at the pub.

      I’ve spent a lot of time over the years employing people or helping people to get past some kinds of issues. You always have to judge because whatever you are doing you as an individual will be expending time and resources. It is ridiculous to say that shouldn’t happen or to confuse an person doing it with them trying to set public policy.

      As an employer you :-

      a: only see everything from the outside even when you wind up with a few 5 minute talks with references.
      b: take a hell of a chance anytime you employ someone (as least you do if you’re employing at skilled levels).

      So you get used to making judgements based on inadequate information and is essentially a risk assessment based on the resources you’re going to be expending on an employee.

      The same thing applies when you’re looking at helping someone. The only difference is there it is your own personal effort.

      If you read what I said carefully, then you’d see that what I actually said was that from watching Cameron blogging from when I started reading his stuff in 2007 until sometime in late 2010 or early 2011, he was clearly not particularly well. I didn’t think he would be employable without a hell of a lot of effort by his employers and peers.

      I don’t know what happened around the end of 2010 (medications?), but when I started reading him again in mid 2011 after my own medical issues he was a whole lot more coherent, disciplined, and the really strange feral edge had largely disappeared. He was still somewhat of an arsehole of course, but he was clearly a whole lot better – which is why I’ve now stopped bothering being nice (there are a pile of spiked stories in my queue where I’ve written something in my usual acerbic style and then decided not to use it).

      But within the context of employing him for something like blogging (which is where I observed him) then he’d now be up for consideration. But I rather suspect that employing him as an editor would be a big step too far. But by the sound of the circulation figures for the Truth it is a bit of a desperation measure anyway.

      Outside of the workplace, I’ve helped people many times with issues from everything from being a teenager to depression to OOS. If he’d had been someone I’d known and was willing to exert effort on, then there would have been a process. From 2007-2011 I’d have been trying to get him to do something, anything, to figure out how to work around or cure his medical problem. From sometime in 2011, I’d have been trying to help him off support and into work. And once he’d have gotten there then I’d have been off looking for someone else to assist.

      That is one of the things I do with my limited free time and I’ve done that ever since I realised I could help make a difference in peoples lives. But whatever I was doing, employing or assisting, then I’d have to make some kind of a judgement about how I could best help or if I even wanted to do so. So yes – I judge. What I’m judging is where to expend the resources that I control.

      Nevertheless, the way it’s come across today is that anyone with five years of observation of me, from the outside, can now legitimately put me down on the basis of being a bludger (or whatever the criticism du jour is) and presumably challenge my right to a benefit. Never mind my actual reasons for being on a benefit, which are almost never visible from the outside.

      I have very little interest in if someone should be on a benefit or not – my presumption is that benefits are there to be used and I’m happy to pay the taxes that have made them available to family, friends, and strangers. My main interest in benefits is that they should be available for people who need them.

      But that is background. Personally I’m far more interested in what people are capable of doing. I simply hate seeing people wasting skills and idling around bored out of their tree and I always have done so.

      So read what I actually said in the post:-

      And of course it helps to keep a high profile deadbeat off of the taxpayers tab. I wish him well in the role..

      Why? Because while he is an arsehole, he has also clearly been underutilised and bored out of his tree in the last couple of years. He has looked like a animal pacing in a small cage at the zoo.

      I’m very unlikely to ever want to help him myself apart from shoving some well deserved barbs to encourage him like the one above. But it may be interesting to see him actually doing something that more productive than dissing Kate Wilkinson and doing similar small minded and largely ineffectual attacks on others that he perceives as political or personal enemies – which is all that I have ever seen him do. And just the idea of him actually taking responsibility for the employees at The Truth intrigues my interest. Caring about others hasn’t exactly been something I have observed in either his actions or writing. I suspect he sucks as a manager (or editor).

      The faux hysteria has been rather amusing because people were more interested in writing about what they perceived into my remark than what I actually said. Almost like I was making political policy rather than the personal policies I was describing.

      • weka 37.4.1

        Hi Lynn,
         
        I understand what you are saying about being an employer, and agree that judgement is required in many situations. But even in a five minute interview you are able to ask clarifying questions and will have formal documentation upon which to base judgements. And that interview is private.
         
        What I have a problem with is the public nature of judging medical beneficiaries in the context of a culture of bene bashing. Irrespective of your personal reasons for judging Slater and no matter how qualified you feel to do so, the fact remains that when someone as high profile as you and/or TS does this it contributes to that culture.
         
        I’ve been on the receiving end of such judgements, some with quite devastating real life consequences. And in each case the person felt entitled and qualified to make those judgements. They weren’t qualified, but NZ society currently gives them the message that they are entitled. You’ve just reinforced that.
         
        I still think that there is no way to know about a beneficiary’s entitlement from the outside. As you posted, you know Slater’s public persona pretty well. But entitlements aren’t dependent on public personas. They’re based on a range of complexities, almost always private, including timeframes and changes in wellness/illness that you have no way of knowing about. Likewise capacity.
         
        I think there is probably a way that you could have talked about Slater’s public persona, including your observations about the relationship between his blogging and illness, without crossing the line into the area of entitlement or judgement of capacity eg the last sentence of your post is not necessary to the post at all. More careful use of language would have helped too (deadbeat and taxpayer’s money are always going to be redflags in this day and age). What I am saying here is that because of the current climate of bene bashing, we need to be much more careful about how things get framed.
         
         

        The faux hysteria has been rather amusing because people were more interested in writing about what they perceived into my remark than what I actually said.
         

        More like a shark infested pool of testosterone 😉 The level of personal animosities and reactions seemed much higher than is usual on TS.
         
         

  38. MrV 38

    For supposed non–news 200+ comments suggests otherwise …

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  • Speech by the Minister of Defence to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs
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