web analytics

When liberals become illiberal

Written By: - Date published: 2:59 pm, April 29th, 2009 - 36 comments
Categories: culture - Tags:

Much as I disagree with those who oppose the freedom of same sex couples to marry, I also can’t stand those that attack the freedom of speech beyond reason. Whatever happened to “I disagree with what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”?

I’m referring to gay beauty pageant judge Perez Hilton’s mauling of Miss USA contestant Carrie Prejean,  whom he later abused as a ‘dumb bitch’. Hilton asked Prejean for her views on gay marriage. She duly answered the question by giving Perez her views, which certainly expressed her disagreement with gay marriage, but she also stressed she was just expressing a personal belief, and she did not attack gays at all. This was not hate speech. Also, her views were aligned with the laws of the state she was representing (California), however wrong you or I may think them.

So what’s the big problem? Sure, she may have a degree of intolerance, but certainly no less than Hilton.

I’m glad the world isn’t full of Carrie Prejeans, but I’m even happier that it isn’t full of scum like Hilton, who entrap people by asking their opinion in good faith and then verbally abuse them in front of millions for expressing it honestly and sincerely. What was she supposed to do? Lie?  Liberals betray everything they stand for when people like Miss Prejean are too scared to voice even mild-mannered divergence from the liberal consensus.

– John’s angry mate

36 comments on “When liberals become illiberal ”

  1. BLiP 1

    Not sure about that link, Guest.

    • BLiP 1.1

      Beg your pardon – it is the correct link but just doesn’t seem to work for me.

      Interesting that you should raise this admidst other dicussion about the media. In this case, there has been significant misreporting and salacious nonsense.

      Basically, the contestant said that she was pleased that “all Americans” can choose a same marriage partner – actually, on those living in five US states have that freedom and that is why she was called a dumb bitch.

      • Graeme 1.1.1

        That may be why she was called dumb; it cannot be why she was called a dumb B****.

        • BLiP 1.1.1.1

          Aaaah – . It’s a denigration of women. Even if they are beauty contestants, they still deserve respect. Fair enough. Hadn’t even thought of that. Thanks Graeme. Then again, “bitch” is one of those words , like perhaps “n1gger”, where it depends on who’s using it . . maybe, dunno myself.

  2. Jasper 2

    Being homo myself, I can’t understand Perez’s attitude. It’s similar to the right vs the left if you will.

    I fully respect other people may not have the same way of looking at the world as I do. Yes, I’m thankful to the older generation for fighting for the liberties we now enjoy as a result of their labours. However, others may not feel the same way I do. Personally, I think PDA’s are completely wrong, and seeing old white men with young Asian women is wrong too. Some people might like that, but I don’t. It doesn’t mean I’m going to try and get them to come around to my way of thinking.

    When people like Perez come along and get angry because someone dares to do the right thing, and stand by their viewpoints that gay marriage is wrong, it does nothing to endear the homos. Perez just threw a hissy as Carrie has a different viewpoint to his, and said an answer he didn’t want to hear, as he’s a blinkered snotrag. For that reason, Carrie gets my vote. Miss USA should be honest and proud to have her own opinions, which is why I’m disappointed Carrie didn’t win.
    Quite simply, just because you are, doesn’t mean you have to be.

    • jcuknz 2.1

      What is the difference between old white men with young asian women and old white men and young european women? Apart from jealousy on the part of the viewers who can’t make it. Young attractive women have been selling themselves either in marraige or other relationships since the world began. Some women have bodies and others have brains, many have both and use what they have for a satisfying life.

  3. Ari 3

    The key fact here is that Perez asked her. If you’re going to ask someone for their opinion when they haven’t said or done anything even related to the topic, what reason have you got to object to it?

    Not that I think Carrie Prejean was much better: Biblically correct, huh? Bet you eat shellfish, and you don’t stone to death women who are raped inside a city.

  4. Travis Bickle 4

    She has a right to express her opinion. She is entitled to be a bigot. And though she is entitled to be a bigot, being a bigot is ugly.

    And ugly people just don’t win beauty contests.

    • Graeme 4.1

      I’m not sure that merely having a view like this on marriage qualifies as the “narrow-minded intolerance”* by which bigotry – outside its historical sense – is usually defined.

      Certainly the view may arise out of a bigotry – if she opposed gay marriage because she considered homosexuals inferior etc. – but I’d argue the simple view isn’t enough to qualify.

      *Oxford English Dictionary

  5. Pascal's bookie 5

    .HILTON: Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same-sex marriage. Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not?

    PREJEAN: Well, I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage.

    And, you know what? In my country, and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that’s how I was raised and that’s how I think that it should be — between a man and a woman. Thank you.

    BILLY BUSH (host): Thank you very much.

    She was talking shit. Did she somehow miss the fact that actually gays in her own state can’t choose to get married? Bear in mind that she knew the question was coming, and was apparently looking forward to expressing her views. It was a prepared answer that still came out as gibberish and completely wrong on the facts. She got first runner up, and is playing the martyr card for all it’s worth because one of the hosts, later, on his blog, called her a stupid bitch. Oh me Oh my.

    This is going great for her. She will probably end up as Palin’s running mate on the 2012 GOP ticket. At the very least she’ll have a ticket on the wingnut welfare train for a year or so, doing the interviews and hosting fundraisers.

    As for “I disagree with what you say, but I?ll defend to the death your right to say it?”, who is exactly is telling who to shut up in this little kabuki play?

  6. Dude, guest poster, you lost me when you called Hilton SCUM.

    Christopher Thomas Pryde may be scum but otherwise: steady on.

    as PB says above the DUMB BITCH says “In my cuntry, and in my family marriage should be between guys and chicks”.

    WTF? She marries within her family?

    that’s not allowed !
    but then, thoroughbreds – and she looks kinda that way – are closely bred, bloodlines, keep out the mongrel, glue the throwbacks.

    oh, AND she says IN MY COUNTRY. what? did she misread her cue card? You can’t say that!

    I watched Alan Shore marry his sugar daddy last night. Last Waltz .
    Obama ruined this show at just the right time. No jack intended.

  7. Lew 7

    Tough call; stripped of all the glam, this is Popper’s Paradox of Toleration:

    If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.

    (from The Open Society and its Enemies.)

    So while Hilton was right to take arms against Prejean on the issue, I tend to think that by genderising and personalising the insults he has shown as much intolerance as she did, and that’s not a win.

    L

  8. dad4justice 8

    I am not a bigot, but I fail to understand homosexuals.

  9. Ruth 9

    Are you aware that her gay manager paid for her breast implants?

    And to quote what has been said elsewhere – why do they still have these ‘pageants’ – is this dumbass bimbo supposed to be sexually attractive? Many men beg to differ.

    Sure everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they also have to deal with the consequences of that opinion.

  10. Jungle Feaver 10

    I’m sorry but I’m calling bullshit on this whole post. It wasn’t that long ago when many girls her age would be bashing “coloured folk” justifying it as “personal belief”.

  11. infused 11

    I don’t care about gay marriage, but I do have a problem with two same sex couples bringing up a kid. But hey, whole different kettle of fish :p

    • Lew 11.1

      Infused,

      I don’t care about gay marriage, but I do have a problem with two same sex couples bringing up a kid.

      Yeah. A kid should only ever be brought up by one couple.

      L

  12. infused 12

    Ah, nice typo there by me.

  13. sheesh 13

    [deleted]
    [lprent: Just banned you on another thread]

  14. vto 14

    seems to be a bit of anti white american girl feeling around…

    Bigotry and prejudice floating to the surface…

    Personally I have no problem – they have provided many many years of tele candy to rest my weary eyes on at the end of the working daze.

  15. vto 15

    Maybe the heading to this thread should have been “When liberals are exposed as illiberals”.

  16. Rich 16

    The guy said what he thought, to her face. I don’t see any problem with calling somebody else a homophobic jerk (is that a sufficiently non-gender-derogatory term?).

    Just because somebody has a right an opinion doesn’t mean that others don’t have the right to call them on it.

  17. grumpy 17

    Seems to be a lot of regular contributors rushing to identify themselves as “gay”.

    A lot more than most people would suspect given the general left leaning nature of this Blog.

    Is this Blog really “Left” or just a front for “Rainbow”?

    • BLiP 17.1

      You seem very curious all of a sudden. Is that just a flash drive in your pocket or are you pleased to be here?

  18. Whacky Lefty 18

    Before rushing to defend ‘free speech’, we should really look at where that comes from.

    It comes from the Plutocracy where freedom was only enjoyed by land owning men over 40yrs of age. Women had no rights & slavery was the economic base.

    If a ‘Man’ of that day could not defend himself he would loses face, standing and in all likely hood his land. This ‘freedom’ was more akin to a warrior culture than our democracy.

    To missrepresent ‘freedom of speech’ as a sacred cow is to ignore the reality of the freedoms, such as they existed at that time.

    All freedoms have limits & all actions have consequences.

    Love the irony of Sheesh being banned or was that the joke?

    • lprent 18.1

      Love the irony of Sheesh being banned or was that the joke?

      Nope. There are rules on the site (see policy).

      Abusing the sysop or post writers on their own site. This is viewed as self-evident stupidity, and should be added as a category to the Darwin Awards.

      If you note, he wasn’t even remotely on topic on his later comments. The first one he at least stayed on topic.

      At one stage last year we had trolls coming in and using every post to simply attack the site and the authors of the site with massive number of comments that were just repeats. Effectively they were thread-jacking every post. Eventually we got pissed off with it. This is a site run by volunteers, and for the purposes of discussion – not tirades that amount to graffiti. Stupidly dropping graffiti everywhere gets people what they deserve because it doesn’t contribute to debate.

      If they want to participate here, they have to follow the site rules. They can exercise their ‘right’ to free graffiti elsewhere.

  19. Philonz 19

    This incident is another example of our reality TV ‘laugh at the stupids’ culture. These pageants are outdated and we should probably just ignore them but it seems that they have just turned into another excuse for us to laugh at people stupider, more ignorant, uglier, more deluded than us. This is why Susan Boyle was a hit, because we expected her to be rubbish cos she doesn’t look like a model.

  20. ballsdeep 20

    Sounds like a “dumb bitch” to me…

    Now it’s more than ‘”just her opinion”, now she is trying to crush the rights of others and influence other people with her bigoted POV.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUKTRE5400DW20090501

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • NZ announces a third P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    The Government has deployed a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea, announced Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark. “New Zealand has long supported ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Pacific trade and development agreement a reality
    Pacific regional trade and development agreement PACER Plus will enter into force in 60 days now that the required eight countries have ratified it. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the announcement that the Cook Islands is the eighth nation to ratify this landmark agreement. “The agreement represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Securing a pipeline of teachers
    The Government is changing its approach to teacher recruitment as COVID-19 travel restrictions continue, by boosting a range of initiatives to get more Kiwis into teaching. “When we came into Government, we were faced with a teacher supply crisis,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “Over the past three years, we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Border exceptions for a small number of international students with visas
    The Government has established a new category that will allow 250 international PhD and postgraduate students to enter New Zealand and continue their studies, in the latest set of border exceptions. “The health, safety and wellbeing of people in New Zealand remains the Government’s top priority. Tight border restrictions remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • First COVID-19 vaccine purchase agreement signed
    The Government has signed an agreement to purchase 1.5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 750,000 people – from Pfizer and BioNTech, subject to the vaccine successfully completing all clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, say Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods and Health Minister Chris Hipkins. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • International statement – End-to-end encryption and public safety
    We, the undersigned, support strong encryption, which plays a crucial role in protecting personal data, privacy, intellectual property, trade secrets and cyber security.  It also serves a vital purpose in repressive states to protect journalists, human rights defenders and other vulnerable people, as stated in the 2017 resolution of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ministry of Defence Biodefence Assessment released
    The Ministry of Defence has today released a Defence Assessment examining Defence’s role across the spectrum of biological hazards and threats facing New Zealand. Biodefence: Preparing for a New Era of Biological Hazards and Threats looks at how the NZDF supports other agencies’ biodefence activities, and considers the context of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020
    New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020 Hon David Parker’s response following Thomas Piketty and Esther Duflo. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever in the world you might be. I first acknowledge the excellent thought provoking speeches of Thomas Piketty and Esther ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Kaipara Moana restoration takes next step
    A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed today at Waihāua Marae between the Crown, local iwi and councils to protect, restore and enhance the mauri of Kaipara Moana in Northland. Environment Minister David Parker signed the document on behalf of the Crown along with representatives from Ngā Maunga Whakahī, Ngāti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand and Uruguay unite on reducing livestock production emissions
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Uruguayan Minister of Livestock, Agriculture and Fisheries Carlos María Uriarte have welcomed the launch of a three-year project that will underpin sustainable livestock production in Uruguay, Argentina, and Costa Rica.  The project called ‘Innovation for pasture management’ is led by Uruguay’s National Institute of Agricultural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 3100 jobs created through marae upgrades
    Hundreds of marae throughout the country will be upgraded through investments from the Provincial Growth Fund’s refocused post COVID-19 funding to create jobs and put money into the pockets of local tradespeople and businesses, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta have announced. “A total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health volunteers recognised in annual awards
    Health Minister Chris Hipkins has announced 9 teams and 14 individuals are the recipients of this year’s Minister of Health Volunteer Awards.  “The health volunteer awards celebrate and recognise the thousands of dedicated health sector volunteers who give many hours of their time to help other New Zealanders,” Mr Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community COVID-19 Fund supports Pacific recovery
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says a total of 264 groups and individuals have successfully applied for the Pacific Aotearoa Community COVID-19 Recovery Fund, that will support Pacific communities drive their own COVID-19 recovery strategies, initiatives, and actions. “I am keen to see this Fund support Pacific ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community benefits from Māori apprenticeships
    Up to 50 Māori apprentices in Wellington will receive paid training to build houses for their local communities, thanks to a $2.75 million investment from the Māori Trades and Training Fund, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Ngāti Toa Rangatira Incorporated to provide its Ngā Kaimahi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Training fund supports Māori jobseekers
    Rapidly growing sectors will benefit from a $990,000 Māori Trades and Training Fund investment which will see Wellington jobseekers supported into work, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Sapphire Consultants Ltd. to help up to 45 Māori jobseekers into paid training initiatives over two years through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ruakura Inland Port development vital infrastructure for Waikato
    The Government is investing $40 million to develop an inland port at Ruakura which will become a freight super-hub and a future business, research and residential development for the Waikato, Urban Development and Transport Minister Phil Twyford, and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The funding has been has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Appointments made to Defence Expert Review Group
    Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today the establishment of an Expert Review Group to review a number of aspects of the New Zealand Defence Force’s (NZDF) structure, information management and record-keeping processes.  The Expert Review Group’s work arises out of the first recommendation from the Report of the Government’s Inquiry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • No active community cases of COVID-19
    There are no active community cases of COVID-19 remaining in the country after the last people from the recent outbreak have recovered from the virus, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “This is a big milestone. New Zealanders have once again through their collective actions squashed the virus. The systems ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Clean energy upgrade for more public buildings
    More public buildings will be supported by the Government to upgrade to run on clean energy, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. Minister Shaw announced that Lincoln and Auckland universities will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to replace fossil fuel boilers. Southern, Taranaki, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Schools back donations scheme for the second year
    More schools have opted in to the donations scheme for 2021, compared to 2020 when the scheme was introduced. “The families of more than 447,000 students will be better off next year, with 94% of eligible schools and kura opting into the scheme,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ruapehu cycle trails gets PGF boost
    The spectacular Mountains to Sea cycle trail in Ruapehu District will receive $4.6 million in funding from the Provincial Growth Fund for two additional trails, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This is an exciting development for the local community, and one that will provide significant economic opportunities ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Update to air border order strengthens crew requirements
    Additional measures coming into effect on Monday will boost our defence against COVID-19 entering New Zealand through the air border, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “As part of our precautionary approach and strategy of constant review, we’re tightening the requirements around international aircrew,” Chris Hipkins said. The COVID-19 Public ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • A true picture of Māori business activity
    A better picture of the contribution Māori businesses make to the economy will be possible with changes to the way information is collected about companies and trading enterprises. Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta and Small Business Minister Stuart Nash have announced a new option for Māori enterprises who are part ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • PGF funding for Taranaki projects
    The South Taranaki museum, a New Plymouth distillery and a Pasifika building firm will benefit from a Government investment totalling more than $1 million, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. The $1.05m in grants and loans from the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) will help the recipients expand and create ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Fijian Language Week 2020 inspires courage and strength during COVID-19 pandemic
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says the theme for the 2020 Fijian Language Week reflects the strong belief by Fijians that their language and culture inspires courage and strength that is strongly needed in times of emergencies, or through a significant challenge like the global COVID-19 pandemic ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Trades training builds on iwi aspirations
    An investment of $2.025 million from the Māori Trades and Training Fund will support Māori to learn new skills while making a positive difference for their communities, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “K3 Development Limited Partnership will receive $2,025,000 for its Takitimu Tuanui apprenticeship programme, which will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago