Who says cancel culture is a bad thing?

84 comments on “Who says cancel culture is a bad thing? ”

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1. Tiger Mountain 1

   28 January 2021 at 9:05 am

   Has “Banksie” deteriorated with age, or had plateaued at his normal level of filth, and just got sprung due to further public exposure?

   What an unpleasant reminder of his years of anti Pasifika and homophobic bigotry. Non existent helicopter flights to Dotcom’s mansion, a custom car park on the ratepayer for his Bentley and Harley, late night cruising around K’Rd, it all comes back, refusing to acknowledge his own son in a legal case…

   He has paraded hate for decades, and still has a market, if a diminishing one in the third decade of the 21st Century. I heard his old mate “Hone” Carter on RNZ this morning, and Carter has actually improved a little as FNDC Mayor, but not “two cheques” Banks. At least we had the satisfaction of his humiliation in the contest for first supercity Mayor, and may this be his final ignominy.
2. gsays 2

   28 January 2021 at 9:08 am

   Commerce permeates this Banks issue.

   A commercial decision to have the outspoken has-been back on the airwaves as he will deliver ears to the advertisers.

   A commercial decision to discontinue the relationship.

   Where is the scorn for Media works for tolerating, enabling and funding product that is a little bit too racist again ?

   https://www.google.com/amp/s/thespinoff.co.nz/politics/15-08-2020/merv-endings-a-deep-dive-into-the-world-of-phony-political-talkback-calls/%3famp

   Banks is a tragic relic, Mediaworks is a far more insidious powerful entity.
   • tc 2.1

     28 January 2021 at 9:36 am

     This is what you get with the self regulation Collins allowed as we all know it suits the right to have this type of action in the market.

     Media can pretty much do as it pleases without consequences which Dirty Politics showed.
3. Robert Guyton 3

   28 January 2021 at 9:14 am

   "…as well as environmentally…" what?
   • mickysavage 3.1

     28 January 2021 at 9:25 am

     Oops the end disappeared. Will now add.
   • Ad 3.2

     28 January 2021 at 1:52 pm

     ahhhhhhhhhhhhh but his emails ….

     Thankfully yours was a minor breach and you apologised fulsomely.
     • Robert Guyton 3.2.1

       28 January 2021 at 2:06 pm

       Cap in hand I was, Guv! True though – there's no other way out.
4. AB 4

   28 January 2021 at 9:31 am

   Which form of cancel culture is worse:

   • right-wing hacks being tossed off the air because they say shitty things that will offend the listeners and advertisers, or
   • left-wing voices never being heard because their opinions might clash with the commercial interests of the owners of media platforms and their advertisers

   The latter of course has been around for decades (cue Chomsky and Herman), whereas the former is relatively new and has got people excited, even spawning the phrase 'cancel culture' to describe it.

   Double standards much?
   • Incognito 4.1

     28 January 2021 at 9:36 am

     Personally, I’m always dismayed about some left-wing voices trying to cancel other left-wing voices for various reasons; it tends to get quite feral and personal 🙁
     • AB 4.1.1

       28 January 2021 at 10:09 am

       Civil wars are always the most vicious.
     • Forget now 4.1.2

       28 January 2021 at 10:35 am

       I think there has to be some care to differentiate between the different forms of Cancel Culture, Incognito. It's a rather flexible term that means different things to different people, and impacts different people differently. Particularly with the rise in anonymous (or pseudonymous) internet fora where the Cancelers can snipe from near perfect concealment until they themselves transgress to the point of themselves being cancelled (and outed and doxed).

       The promise of cancelling was that it would give power back to those who had none, and bring justice to prominent abusers. It's; in a way, the 21st century version of the guillotine: The bringer of justice. The people's avenger. But also; like the guillotine, it can become a sadistic entertainment spectacle. And I want to make the case that well:

       We do have a teensy bit of a; reign of terror, situation here, gorge{ous}

       While I do earnestly recommend that everybody watch Natalie Wynn's magnum opus, I get that; the feature length movie duration (of a 100 minute singleperson Youtube video), may put many off. Even synopsizing it would take considerable comment space. The important part for the current discussion is around the; 1 hour, 13 minute mark where she equates the presentday phenomenon of Cancelling with what was last century called Trashing as described in a 1976 Jo Freeman article:

       What is "trashing," this colloquial term that expresses so much, yet explains so little? It is not disagreement; it is not conflict; it is not opposition. These are perfectly ordinary phenomena which, when engaged in mutually, honestly, and not excessively, are necessary to keep an organism or organization healthy and active. Trashing is a particularly vicious form of character assassination which amounts to psychological rape. It is manipulative, dishonest, and excessive. It is occasionally disguised by the rhetoric of honest conflict, or covered up by denying that any disapproval exists at all. But it is not done to expose disagreements or resolve differences. It is done to disparage and destroy.

       https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/trashing.htm
     • Obtrectator 4.1.3

       28 January 2021 at 11:06 am

       “Personally, I’m always dismayed about some left-wing voices trying to cancel other left-wing voices for various reasons; it tends to get quite feral and personal”

       That's why Franco won the Spanish Civil War. The two main left-wing factions put so much time and effort into the contest as to which of them would reign supreme after the inevitable (to them) victory over the Right, they lost sight of the need to actually defeat the Right first.
       • RedLogix 4.1.3.1

         28 January 2021 at 11:11 am

         they lost sight of the need to actually defeat the Right first.

         If your goal is to defeat the people you have to live with – you are assured of a miserable life.
       • Popliteal Fossa 4.1.3.2

         28 January 2021 at 11:22 am

         That is not at all why Franco won the Spanish Civil War. He won with the support of many thousands of professional troops and top-end military equipment from Germany and Italy,. This mean he could often fight battles with an advantage of 3 or 4 to one in term of troops, and an incalculable advantage in terms of equipment. The infighting between anarchists and communists in the Republican ranks was quite insignificant by comparison.
         • In Vino 4.1.3.2.1

           28 January 2021 at 11:09 pm

           +1 True
5. bwaghorn 5

   28 January 2021 at 9:35 am

   Yip we need to run these shit bags out of town .

   They infect there listeners with their disease.
   • Nic the NZer 5.1

     28 January 2021 at 11:22 am

     Most of the listeners appear to have identified the racism very effectively. Many then contacted the radio station and advertisers promptly.

     Do you know anybody who was infected?
     • mac1 5.1.1

       28 January 2021 at 12:13 pm

       Sometimes the infection is already there, but receiving nourishment and approval, is seen as the healthy norm.
       • Nic the NZer 5.1.1.1

         28 January 2021 at 12:37 pm

         Your suggesting a large number of Banks audience are thinking his behaviour seems to be a pretty good idea for them to emulate?
       • bwaghorn 5.1.1.2

         28 January 2021 at 2:06 pm

         Yip I occasionally lunch in the presence of a wealthy oldy who has talk back going all the time occasionally the facade slips and the poison she injests leaks out all over the place.
         • Nic the NZer 5.1.1.2.1

           28 January 2021 at 4:06 pm

           A quiet dottage, cruelly marred by availability of talkback radio.
           • Phil 5.1.1.2.1.1

             28 January 2021 at 4:44 pm

             Both my Mother and Mother-in-law are avid listeners to talkback radio, in part, I assume, because they are retired living alone and it's nice to have the companionship of human voices. They're both worldly and smart women.

             Nevertheless, the amount of fearmongering bullshit they consume from the radio (especially during the Covid lockdown) is breathtaking and terrifying.
       • mac1 5.1.1.3

         28 January 2021 at 7:27 pm

         One person alone can give approval to another so that they both feel vindicated. My comment referred to the deluded thinking they are the norm no matter how much actual approval.

         When the approval giver is a noted personality, a former Mayor and Cabinet Minister, then that adds credibility to the credulous.

         How many of Banks' audience agreed with him for me is not the issue. I hope it's not many. But, as the recent election showed, a majority of Kiwis saw through the bullshit expounded by such as Banks.

         What is important is that Banks got called, and sanctioned.
6. Stuart Munro 6

   28 January 2021 at 10:08 am

   It all depends who it is trying to silence, and what is objectionable about what they have to say. As a general rule, punching down is not appropriate.

   It gets complicated by those persons who repeat the fictions of a Trump, Putin, or Xi. Though often ignorant and disempowered, letting them operate as catspaws does nothing for civic discourse. Does it count as silencing Trump, which would be punching up, or silencing his disempowered dupes which would be punching down? In those instances a criterion of untruth might be helpful – when they lie they're better silenced – when they find a kernel of truth we are obliged to tolerate them.
7. Andre 7

   28 January 2021 at 12:53 pm

   What is the difference between cancel culture, which seems to be viewed as a bad thing, and just arseholes getting (correctly) told their arseholery is not welcome, which is surely a good thing?
   • Nic the NZer 7.1

     28 January 2021 at 1:13 pm

     The difference is the extra step when the reasonable persons actual statements, behaviour or arguments are missconstrued (or problematized) so they can be called a racist, sexist or other kind of bigot or 'tankie' and subsequently cancelled.
     • Gabby 7.1.1

       29 January 2021 at 11:20 am

       Has Banxy been misrepresented?
       • Nic the NZer 7.1.1.1

         29 January 2021 at 11:50 am

         Doesn't seem so to me.
8. woodart 8

   28 January 2021 at 1:57 pm

   cancel culture ,virtual signalling, bloody nonsense. keep it simple. the All Blacks have a simple rule, no dickheads. I have organised and run a few gigs where alcohol and other substances were involved, at the start of the night , it is made clear to ALL, no dickheads, misbehave and you are thrown out the gate. never had a problem, no fashionable phrase or buzzwords needed, no handwringing whether this is an attack on someones political views. .
   • Forget now 8.1

     28 January 2021 at 2:41 pm

     So you are the dictator of; who is, and who is not, a dickhead then, Woodart? Cancel Culture and Virtue Signaling are not the same thing. Arguably this is more a case of VS than CC, in that it was the companies who pulled their advertising; because they didn't want to be smeared with this slime, that really caused Banks' firing. But it's not like Tragic Talk didn't know exactly what he was when they hired him. On radio, the ads are the Content; the programs are the Fill.

     Banks interrupted the caller, saying “just a minute, your children need to get used to their stone-age culture because if their stone-age culture doesn’t change, these people will come through your bathroom window”.

     Always with the coming through the windows (also phrasing)! And sure; people complained on twitter, but that was free advertising for the demographic the station was cultivating. But there's no point in the business having an audience, if they can't flog them stuff.

     Where do rapist ruggers fall in your definition of dickheads? Have we never had a problem, or do we choose not to see the problems we do have? Because the prospect of watching a bunch a sweaty lads in tight shorts mudwrestling doesn't seem worth that to me.
     • woodart 8.1.1

       28 January 2021 at 3:39 pm

       if you have to ask whether a rapist is a dickhead, then you would be put out the gate. as an adult, you should know what behaviour is acceptable, and when you go into someones private property, then yes, they are the dictator and do decide what constitutes being a dickhead. go to a pub, concert, etc, and behave badly. see how quickly you are shown the door.
       • Forget now 8.1.1.1

         29 January 2021 at 6:07 am

         We are discussing a radio broadcast, so is that one private property or not? The frequency is leased by the government, yet the receivers are on the listeners property. Banks was ejected from the broadcaster's property for making the advertisers look bad by association, and the person phoning in from their property had to see their; presumed idol, toppled, for agreeing with their rancid views. However many things happen that aren't on private property and still the police and other governmental agencies can enforce laws on both, if not always consisitantly. Cops trump bouncers.

         Anyway, you were the one who chose to introduce rugby players as moral exemplars. However, it is strangely difficult to secure rape convictions against them, and even when that happens; they are welcomed back to the fold after sentence served. Though they are not people that many Aotearoans would want to see representing us on an international forum. Christian Grey even shares a name with the notoriously abusive arsehole in a poorly written, and researched, series of books that has done lasting harm to the kink community.

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/98516655/rescue-rape-trial-not-guilty-on-all-charges

         Which, to me, is a really bad look, and reason enough to avoid the sport that I used to play in school (only the 3rd 15, but at the time my school was the rugby club fielding the most teams in the province). During which time, I saw the top team members afforded a certain informal license for any transgressions at events on private property. I just wish that I had had the courage to be the dickhead who called out some of the sexual assault I witnessed then. But one's loyalty was to the team and school; so I chose not to see, thought I mistook the situation and didn't interfere; no one in authority would have listened anyway.

         Looking back, I am deeply ashamed of the cowardice of my former self.
9. Janice 9

   28 January 2021 at 3:37 pm

   Banks would be a good fit with Brash, Bassett and Hide. I wonder why he wasn't asked to join them?
10. Ad 10

    28 January 2021 at 5:33 pm

    Are the left just more polite?
11. Peter 11

    28 January 2021 at 5:38 pm

    From Herald: "I also made some generic negative statements about Māori people and practices that could have been misconstrued as racist. And I apologise for that, it's not my intention. I'm not racist. I'm not racist," said Banks.

    "Banks next spoke, he said "your children need to get used to their stone-age culture, because if their stone-age culture doesn't change, these people will come through your bathroom window".

    Put that together with the history above. Banks thinking and saying he isn't racist shows his dumb and ignorant he is.
12. McFlock 12

    28 January 2021 at 5:40 pm

    "Cancel culture" is as close to democracy as capitalism gets.

    Advertisers pay to be associated with individuals who will get advertisers sales.

    Making it clear that association with someone can only be negative in one's opinion leaves the capitalist to recompute cold calculation: do I get more money from this association than it costs me?
    • McFlock 12.1

      28 January 2021 at 7:44 pm

      And to further that train of thought, I guess there's less money in racists now that when Paul Holmes made headlines in 2003. Good.
13. roblogic 13

    28 January 2021 at 6:18 pm

    Cancelled:

    r/WallStreetBets for challenging the hegemony of Wall St, pumping up GameStop, and screwing over hedge funds with short positions.

    Feminists like Abigail Shrier, Ani O'Brien, Rachel Stewart, for speaking out about the rights of women and girls, under attack by a faux "left" social media movement that happens to have massive corporate sponsorship.

    Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning

    Jeremy Corbyn, Bernie Sanders (vilified by the MSM, not just insane RW media) because they spoke out for the people against the corporations.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    • Forget now 13.1

      29 January 2021 at 7:10 am

      Feminists are not one single monolithic entity, in fact many trans-people consider themselves feminists too, though other people who call themselves that may not agree. Gerlich may be free to speak, but that does not mean that others are obliged to provide her an uncritical audience when she says things like:

      "Transgenderism is a predatory and authoritarian neo-liberal ideology."

      https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=1697596640479043&story_fbid=2386297068275660

      The corporate sponsorship of Pride month is certainly a fraught issue: Gatekeeping vs Appropriation. But when it comes to such dodginess, I find the Heritage Foundation's connection to the LGB Alliance's (note absence of; T+) founder; Bev Jackson, to be particularly troubling:

      In the 10 months since it launched, the LGB Alliance has been plagued by fierce opposition from the LGBT+ community for its campaign against the rights of transgender people.

      Criticism has grown more vocal as a string of revelations about the group in the first half of 2020 revealed its connections with neo-Nazis, homophobes, and anti-abortion organisations in the US.

      https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/08/21/lgb-alliance-founder-bev-jackson-heritage-foundation-tweets/

      I guess being imprisoned for leaking information about (alleged) war crimes is a form of cancelling, that's a bit of a stretch though. Thanks you for using her current name, though we are getting a bit far away from the OP Banks firing topic now…

      If you want to continue this discussion, Roblogic; OM may be a better forum.
      • roblogic 13.1.1

        29 January 2021 at 3:11 pm

        Thanks for the link to Renee's talk, very informative. But linking GC feminists to neo-nazis?! lol. There are serious matters at stake, partisan devotion to ideology doesn't justify shutting down questions & limiting academic freedom.
        • McFlock 13.1.1.1

          29 January 2021 at 3:28 pm

          If "cancel culture" were actually a thing that "silenced" people, you wouldn't be able to link to a publication that moans that a book currently available on amazon is being "cancelled".

          I mean, I'd be happy if John Banks never received any media attention or broadcasting or writing or speaking work ever again. But the odds of that happening are exceedingly slim.

          The main issue seems to be that some "cancelled" folks who once had a mainstream target market now have a niche market of bigots (of one flavour or another).
          • roblogic 13.1.1.1.1

            29 January 2021 at 3:56 pm

            There's more going on than Banks-style ignorant bigotry.
            • McFlock 13.1.1.1.1.1

              29 January 2021 at 6:02 pm

              And everyone I kicked out of a pub or function was just harmlessly having a good time and doing nothing wrong. If you only listened to their version of events.
              • roblogic …

                29 January 2021 at 6:46 pm

                Yes it's certainly easier not to have annoying voices of dissent. Cancelling people won't make inconvenient facts go away though.
                • McFlock …

                  29 January 2021 at 7:00 pm

                  I note how you managed to link to three more "annoying voices of dissent".

                  "Cancelling" people does not appear to stop them addressing their target audience, or audience members from finding people with whom they agree. As you have repeatedly demonstrated.

                  cf: my first paragraph at 13.1.1.1.
          • Nic the NZer 13.1.1.1.2

            29 January 2021 at 4:35 pm

            Of course your views are undoubtedly well read, and you are not miss representing any of the wealth of literature available to that niche market of bigots.
            • McFlock 13.1.1.1.2.1

              29 January 2021 at 5:56 pm

              If they had been cancelled or silenced, there would not be a "wealth of literature".
              • Nic the NZer …

                29 January 2021 at 7:07 pm

                Lol. Yes, I was asking your expertise in bigotrature not about its availability.
                • McFlock …

                  29 January 2021 at 8:42 pm

                  I had nobody in particular in mind, even if roblogic seems to have a fixation on one particular social conflict.

                  The textbook example would be David Irving, a respected historian with an encyclopaedic knowledge of the minutae of Third Reich bureaucratic memos, who progressively outed himself as a denier of the Holocaust and ended up doing speaker slots for far-right groups.

                  The people who still want to listen to him or read his books can do so. But only specific groups of people wish to do so.
                  • Nic the NZer …

                    29 January 2021 at 9:51 pm

                    Irving aye, well we all have our guilty pleasures.
                    • McFlock …

                      29 January 2021 at 10:08 pm

                      The pleasure was watching him squirm in a BBC interview after the judge laid into him at the defamation trial he'd instigated.
            • Forget now 13.1.1.1.2.2

              29 January 2021 at 7:28 pm

              No; Nic, you're getting confused – that's not McFlock…

              “Miss Representing” is my Drag name; for when I get all dolled up, of an evening!
        • Forget now 13.1.1.2

          29 January 2021 at 7:40 pm

          Roblogic

          Do you know the Aotearoan trans; suicide rates, and median income? Those are serious matters to me!

          The comparison was not of; all transphobic feminists, to neo-nazis. But rather:

          [T]he Heritage Foundation, an ultra-conservative think tank of anti-LGBT+ lobbyists that, according to the New York Times, has furthered its right-wing agenda by staffing the Trump administration…

          {&} the Witherspoon Institute – another conservative US think tank that opposes abortion and same-sex marriage.

          {Link above @ 13.1}

          However, if you really want to get into a TERF war, then we should take this over to OM. Unless you are a moderator; I am not sticking my mouth on that hornet's nest again!
          • roblogic 13.1.1.2.1

            29 January 2021 at 8:38 pm

            I don't want a war, just acknowledgment that women like Ani or Rachel have lost their jobs and been harassed, threatened and cancelled, and slurred with words like TERF for speaking out about their sex-based rights. It's a stain on the woke left and puts the lie to claims of tolerance and diversity.
            • McFlock 13.1.1.2.1.1

              29 January 2021 at 9:05 pm

              A journo lost their job? In this economy? Shocking. If their content sold subscriptions, they'd still be there.
              • roblogic …

                29 January 2021 at 9:43 pm

                A fairly typical incredulous response, sadly.
                • McFlock …

                  29 January 2021 at 10:23 pm

                  Looked up Stewart. She quit. Apparently "freedom of speech" means forcing others to publish what you write, I guess.

                  But you're missing the point – these mainstream media outlets are corporations. Sociopathic capitalistic institutions. Their structure is designed to suppress any individual's ethical framework and simply pursue profit.

                  If people wanted to read a particular work, no matter how pointless, crude, or offensive, a functionaing media company would publish it. It would make money. Just as many companies retain loathsome individuals and make payoffs with NDAs, because they feel they make more money with those people in the company than if the loathsome were fired.

                  "Cancel culture" is simply people clearly stating that they will not give money to something they don't like.
            • Forget now 13.1.1.2.1.2

              29 January 2021 at 9:20 pm

              Still off topic to the Banks firing I see, roblogic. But once again:

              You may be free to speak, but that does not mean that others are obliged to provide you an uncritical audience.

              Also, I've heard that; TERF, was a response to previous; TIM & TIF, belittlements (Trans Identifying Male & Female; respectively), which I actually thought were pretty good – in a passive aggressive kind of way. But they just didn't stick as tightly as the rejoinder did. A textbook case of being able to dish it out, but not suck it up.

              Personally, I regard referring to transphobes as; TransExclusionary Radical Feminists, as being a bit off target. Some may indeed be; Radical Feminists, but most are; conventional bigots who believe they are entitled to dictate what others do with their bodies, but prefer to woke-cloak their arseholery. Jackson's involvement with; The Heritage Foundation &; The Witherspoon Institute, is clear evidence of that to me.

              Anyway; I'll see you over on OM if you want to continue this. This shit frankly bores me these days. After the first couple of dozen times of; trying to explain subtle distinctions to those who think I am incapable of knowing my own mind, you realise that they're not worth the effort.

              I am not going convince you, you are not going to convince me; so why are we wasting everyone's time with this aside to the OP? Have the last word if you want it so desperately.
            • Tabletennis 13.1.1.2.1.3

              1 February 2021 at 12:39 pm

              Thank you roblogic.
              I'm not surprised by the comments to your contribution, there are clearly still a lot "Banks" in the NZ society.
              If standing up for women's sex based rights (as protected under the sex discrimination act) is considered bigotry by some, then it’s no surprise they also hold the believe that womanhood is simply the act of putting on a dress and some lipstick and that ANY-BODY can do so and be legally a women.

              You can’t build trans acceptance on denying women their own identity as a sex based class that differ from males of any gender expression.
              Male to female trans people are valid MALE diversity and need words, sports, spaces and advocacy that reflect that, rather than colonising another groups.

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    • Tabletennis 13.2

      29 January 2021 at 12:15 pm

      Thank you Roblogic for your contrition to the cancel culture.
      "No self-respecting women should wish or work for the success of a party who ignores her sex"

      Cancel culture in female sport, ignoring sex, safety and fairness.
      • In 2018, before the USAPL changed their rules, JayCee Cooper, a trans powerlifter, set records in women's bench press after only having powerlifted for a year.
      • In 2018, trans cyclist, Rachel McKinnon, took first among the women at the UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championship.
      • In 2017, transgender weightlifter, Laurel Hubbard, set master's world records and won the Commonwealth Games in Australia.
      • In 2014, transgender pro MMA fighter Fallon Fox beat Tamikka Brents, giving her a concussion and broken orbital bone.

      The truth is everyone knows that it’s wrong to let male people play women’s sport. We all know it’s unfair and unsafe and excludes women.

      It’s common sense but no one is allowed to say it.

      https://www.t-nation.com/opinion/trans-athletes-the-death-of-womens-sports
14. Castro 14

    28 January 2021 at 8:40 pm

    If only first nations people had used cancel culture to repel European and other colonists… just call them racists and watch them turn tail… Christ, imagine if the Nazis had screamed racist when met with opposition,,, they might have got the whole world…
    • Gabby 14.1

      29 January 2021 at 11:26 am

      They kind of did. Poor German peoples, ever the victims of the nasty forners.
15. Adrian Thornton 15

    28 January 2021 at 9:26 pm

    Micky Savage, “To those complaining about cancel culture all that I can say in response is that this is the perfect case where it has provided very desirable result.”….wrong .

    Anyone on the Left who is a cheerleader for censorship and its ‘desirable results’ is either completely ignorant of the history of the struggles of the Left or, what is more likely, have just not realized that they have slowly over many years shifted from once being Left (or Left leaning) to now being some sort of Liberal Centrist (which, for some reason, they can’t just acknowledge), and so just through force of habit still call themselves Left…because to think that allowing people and/or organizations to be arbitrarily cancelled and that the same won’t very soon happen (is happening now!) to the Left is short sighted in the extreme.

    In this age when all the main means of communication and all our finances are on line, and are held in the hands of private Corporations, to cheer on cancel culture, that happens without any over sight by these unaccountable monopoly’s is fucking mind boggling…but I guess if you are a Centrist then in your own mind you have nothing to fear, because all this censoring will never effect the status quo…and that is now you and your ideology.

    Martyn 'Bomber' Bradbury cancelled from RNZ

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyn_%22Bomber%22_Bradbury#Radio_New_Zealand_saga

    'Facebook shuts down major left wing group in Britain"

    https://swp.org.uk/press-release-facebook-shuts-down-major-left-wing-group-in-britain/

    "Facebook And Twitter Limit Sharing 'New York Post' Story About Joe Biden"

    https://www.npr.org/2020/10/14/923766097/facebook-and-twitter-limit-sharing-new-york-post-story-about-joe-biden

    Twitter

    "Twitter has purged left-wing accounts with no explanation"

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/twitter-political-account-ban-us-mid-term-elections

    ‘Facebook Purge’: List of Some Deleted Accounts on Left & Right"

    https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/facebook-purge-list-deleted-accounts/

    And finally your cancel culture seems to be very subjective, notice that the anti Putin poster boy Alexey Navalny who is regularly interviewed and/or lorded by The Guardian, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, Washington Post etc and our very own RNZ is a outright racist…haven’t seen him cancelled by Twitter, Facebook or deplatformed by YouTube…now I wonder why that is, any suggestions there Mickey Savage?

    Here is his outrageous racist diatribe in Russian a translated link is below it…

    
    
    

    https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1354052162570117121

    Dictator vs. democrat? Not quite: Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny is no progressive hero

    https://www.salon.com/2017/04/02/dictator-vs-democrat-not-quite-russian-opposition-leader-alexey-navalny-is-no-progressive-hero/

    We have laws in New Zealand specifically to deal with racism and racist comments on air…if you have a problem with Banks comments (as you should) then lay an official complaint to the The Human Rights commission and his employer.

    The Human Rights commission – Racially offensive comments

    https://www.hrc.co.nz/enquiries-and-complaints/faqs/racially-offensive-comments/
    • Castro 15.1

      29 January 2021 at 5:08 am

      Yep… Liberal Centrists AT BEST… Right-wing Neo-fascists, more like
    • Tiger Mountain 15.2

      29 January 2021 at 11:40 am

      Well put Adrian. I recall during the US Presidential Primaries a number of centrist Standard commenters and posters could not even bring themselves to support Bernie Sanders policy points such as universal healthcare!

      They were mired in the punditry, the process, and that “Bernie could never win”. So what, is universal healthcare desirable or not? Dishonest whimps.
      • RedLogix 15.2.1

        29 January 2021 at 1:22 pm

        Some of us have been here before.
        • Adrian Thornton 15.2.1.1

          29 January 2021 at 2:00 pm

          That was a very perceptive comment, I agree with nearly all of your points, though I am not sure what 'radical activist voices' you are referring to within the Democratic party?, surely if there is any new movement or direction from the usual course that the party in on, the lobbyists dictate that?

          You where quite right about underestimating Trump as well, if it hadn't been for Covid Trump would have rolled over the Dems without a murmer, probably even would have won if he had just got a $2000 cheque out before the election.
          • RedLogix 15.2.1.1.1

            29 January 2021 at 2:09 pm

            Personally I never saw Sanders as 'radical'. In my book he's a middle of the road social democrat who would barely raise eyebrows most other places. He would slot into the NZLP caucus with barely a blip.

            But while TeamBiden's win is a welcome relief from the head-banging Trump, we shouldn't forget just how very, very narrow the Democrat win was. If it hadn't been for COVID many people think Trump would have romped home.

            As for ‘radical activist voices’ – it’s no secret I don’t much like the variety of identitarian woke movements and causes that swirl around the periphery of the American left, and nor do the silent majority of US voters.

            And that remains a big problem for the Democrats; they have power, but largely because it was gifted to them unearned. What they do with it next is going to be interesting.
            • Adrian Thornton 15.2.1.1.1.1

              29 January 2021 at 8:30 pm

              "it’s no secret I don’t much like the variety of identitarian woke movements" I don't care for many of them either, but I do believe that their voice on the Left is blown right out of proportion…mainly from snake oil salesmen like Jordan Peterson and his crew, who also get people upset and uptight by the non-existent ‘cultural Marxists’ what a and ridiculous term for crying out loud!..still it’s made him a millionaire so I guess it’s worked for him.
16. In Vino 16

    28 January 2021 at 11:32 pm

    Coming in late – my ten pence.

    Historically, we as a species world-wide came through the stone age, the bronze age, and then the iron age, and now the 'your phone is smarter than you are' age.

    Technically, it is true: Maori were chipping stone and wood to make tools, but they were not melting and forging metals.

    The problem is that 'stone age' has become an insult, and was being deliberately used as an insult on this occasion, and silly old Banks went along with it.

    That is Racism.

    I would say that Maori were indeed stone-age before the arrival of Europeans, but their society was well advanced in other ways.

    Maybe the Waikato was invaded by Grey because the Maori there were showing that a successful production of agriculture in economic terms was being achieved by a communal group with no private ownership… Well, that could not be allowed to happen, could it?

    That stone age society was not totally limited by not having melted and forged metals.

    But Banks and his radio hateback man don't get any of that. For them stone age equals primitive equals insult. Dumb.

    They have got the silencing they deserve just in reaction to the stupidity of what they said.

    We don't need new hate speech laws when our public opinion is already good enough to silence idiots like these anyway.
    • Forget now 16.1

      29 January 2021 at 7:20 am

      Pounamu is a wonderful stone!

      But we do need new hate speech laws. Because the application of the law is (in theory); even-handed and consistent, and at least produces a written record more permanent than a twitter thread.

      You can't rely on cancelling to solve society's problems; you can't even rely on cancelling to solve the problems in cancel culture.
17. georgecom 17

    28 January 2021 at 11:44 pm

    some stone age mentality from Banks

    if he was making the observation that some technology maori had prior to european arrival was stone age he might have been on firmer ground

    but Banks used it in a pejorative way

    the bloke needs to get his thinking out of the stone age
18. Pat 18

    29 January 2021 at 12:03 am

    Banks has always been a dick…and yet he has managed to get himself enough votes to be an MP for 21 years and been elected Mayor of Auckland , twice….and not that long ago.
19. Maurice 19

    29 January 2021 at 2:07 am

    Many confuse "Neolithic" with "Neanderthal" and cries of racism; white privilege; white supremacy etc. etc. tend to indicate the belief in inferiority – perhaps?
    • Forget now 19.1

      29 January 2021 at 12:07 pm

      Europeans, especially from the north of that peninsula/ continent are likely to have a greater proportion of Neanderthal DNA than Polynesians (more Denisovan contribution from extinct Homo Sapiens subspecies, due to Asian migration pattern origins). Rather than; inferiority, or superiority, I find it more useful to think in terms of fitness for (changing) environment.

      But if you can interbreed to produce non-sterile offspring (whether you choose to, or not), then you are biologically the same species.
20. Sanctuary 20

    29 January 2021 at 8:04 am

    I took a brief look at that blog Brash and Hide etc have set up and it is a bit sad. Hide is a covid denier but worse, like John Banks these men are all now relics from another time. They've been left behind and it is probably time to retire to enjoy the garden, their families and sitting outside a cafe playing checkers.

    The hardest thing ever, it seems, is for a boomer to let go and gracefully retire from the field.
21. Reality 21

    29 January 2021 at 11:08 am

    Sanctuary, it does seem some who have been public figures find it very difficult to move aside and let the next generations take over. They so often end up looking irrelevant and out of touch with the world as it now is. They want life to be as they knew it in the 60s, 70s, 80s, when there were some very entrenched nasty attitudes.
22. Tricledrown 22

    29 January 2021 at 5:41 pm

    Just new terminology for political correctness.

    Civilization is moving foward and changing some want to live in the past .
    • roblogic 22.1

      29 January 2021 at 5:57 pm

      The myth of progress. All civilisations rise and fall, and ours is declining rapidly.
23. roblogic 23

    29 January 2021 at 10:18 pm

    
24. McFlock 24

    30 January 2021 at 3:49 pm

    Seems to me that there's a lot of noise fropm people who have been "silenced".

    I would have thought that it would follow the form of person does thing -> uproar -> never hear from or about person again.

    Only one who seems to have done that (other than notable sex offenders) is Tony Veitch (not the commenter here, but the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster). Even then, he was employed for five years or so before eventually pissing off to Bali.

    Most other "cancelled" folks still seem to have a fan base they play to.
25. Lee 25

    5 February 2021 at 7:07 pm

    Boohoo, please harden up those whining about cancel culture like it's the latest meme that just started happening. This is nothing new and has been around for thousands of years in many cultures across the world and happens when some idiot in society does something idiotically stupid or dangerous that lets down the entire group. Really there's something really flawed and wrong with your notion of free speech if your think it's ok to spew hateful crap into some strangers face walking on the street, make how to kill yourself step by step guides to primary school children online on youtube, burn crosses on someones lawn, or spew racist crap on tax payer publicly funded radio, or make death threats on a social media platform that you don't own. Free speech is NOT absolute, there are consequences. I also have a right to tune this crap out of my life if I want to.
26. roblogic 26

    20 February 2021 at 3:16 pm

    Pulitzer winning journo on Cancel Culture…

    https://twitter.com/seanjkerrigan/status/1361583524227276802?s=21
    • Muttonbird 26.1

      20 February 2021 at 4:18 pm

      Yeah, nah. While I didn't read all of it, the thesis seemed to be that because someone once stood up to prevailing thought in defence of tolerance and was cancelled for it, we should now allow people to stand up against tolerance and not cancel them for it.

      That and the old, "you need to listen poor right wing people and understand them more, otherwise it's your fault if they riot".

      How about just make the system provide better for everyone?

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