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Open mike 28/01/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 28th, 2021 - 74 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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74 comments on “Open mike 28/01/2021 ”

  1. Stephen D 3

    Judith seems to be bringing the Nats back to the centre. Her speech at Ellerslie about housing, apparently did not go down too well with the Rotarians. https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/27-01-2021/judith-collins-wants-to-help-solve-the-countrys-housing-crisis-do-people-care/

    And now she wants to contest the Maōri seats. There must be a lot of spluttering going on somewhere. Although it does give ACT more room on the right, so maybe part of some plan?

    • Tricledrown 3.1

      ACT and National with former leaders like Banks and Brash will struggle to get any votes.

  2. Jester 4

    Still very annoyed that we find this out from Hone and not Hipkins or Bloomfield.

    Live: Child and adult are the new Covid-19 cases in the community in Auckland | Stuff.co.nz

    • Forget now 4.1

      Jester, you may have found that out via Harawira before I became aware of it last night, but he would have been leaked the info from someone, and is unlikely to be in possession of all the facts. You found out around 10pm, and the MoH had Locations of Interest updated by midnight, if not before (that's just when I saw it). The health minister and his staff may have been a little bit occupied with responding to the unfolding crisis to jump in front of the cameras, in the middle of the night, before having all the facts. I am sure Harawira has enough on his plate today with managing non-consented checkpoints in Northland (not saying I disagree with them, especially given the Auckland pair, but that could turn nasty without someone with mana, not to mention; from Mana, on top of it).


      Now if they don't front up at 1pm today, I will join you in your annoyance.

      Though, I imagine that this community infection topic will quickly swamp OM, so if any Mods are reading this, maybe a dedicated post about this will prevent that? Not trying to waste your time or tell you how to do your work, but it is a bit off topic to use MS's vaccine post from yesterday.

      • Jester 4.1.1

        No I found out at around 5:15pm on Newstalk One ZB via Hone (NOT 10pm).

        The ministry had not said anything until Hone basically leaked it to HDPA. Later yesterday evening the ministry jumped into action. So yes, I am still annoyed or at least disappointed.

        • Forget now

          HDPA? I assume you are not referring to the enzyme, but what it does mean eludes me. Also assume that the ministry was already in action, perhaps too much so to be conducting press meetings on the basis of incomplete information. Unless there are still 24hour testing stations operating in Auckland, there is a limited amount anyone could do after 5pm. Anyway, I feel that Hipkins; more than Bloomfield, should be the focus of your ire, as they were less likely to be actively busy analyzing the data at the time.

          I think your comment on yesterday's OM was around 10pm, so just assumed that the interview you heard must have been just before then. See what happens when people jump to conclusions on the basis of too little data? They just have to waste time later correcting the error and distracting from the more pressing issues.
          Edit: Your initial comment was just after %pm, but just a reckon that was govt confirmed by 6pm

  3. Tricledrown 5

    No close contacts test positive so good news so far.

    Good wake up call use tracer app wash hands minimise unnecessary contacts .

  4. Anker 6
    • Out of interest why are you annoyed? Hipkins and Bloomfield should have told us sooner? Someone’s leaking in health?

    I remained concerned about these new variants and wonder if we should be going into some sort of level change ASAP. But I still have high trust in our covid response and know this is to do with my personal approach which is with an abundance of caution.

    hope I am not being a bore and happy to be told I am. Yesterday posed a question would you attend a largish party with someone who had left managed isolation the week before. Thanks to those who answered.

    but McFlook and Peter from Chechnya if you are around would your answer still be yes?

    btw this is not some hypothetical for me, real life issue and I thought the standard a good place to do a reality check. Thanks

    • Peter chch 6.1

      Hi Anker. Yes, my answer would still be yes, for same reasons as yesterday: we need to keep a sense of perspective and have confidence that the MOH and other associated bodies are on top of this and will.inform us if the risk level changes.

      • anker 6.1.1

        ok accept your point of view Peter, but I have a different view. We are free to get on with our lives here mostly because of people being careful when we need to be. I am not proposing stay home and don't ever go out because of Covid. But if there is some risk take pre-cautions. Parties can be held at a better time. Its not that bigger deal.

        Personally I wouldn't want to get Covid because I have had cancer and that increases the risk of me getting a bad dose. I also think every time I take an avoidable risk it is potentially risking our precious health workers. Why should I put them at risk just cause I want to go to a party. BTW I would and have attended parties over the last few months (not in level 2) but would not go to one where someone is a week out from managed isolation. Its a very, very tiny sacrifice to avoid what would be a catastrophe.

    • Peter chch 6.2

      Could you, or someone else on here, clarify something. At the hypothetical party, if my Covid app has Bluetooth turned on, and it later transpires someone at the party is infected, does the Bluetooth detect that I was in close proximity to that person?

      • anker 6.2.1

        Sorry I don't know the answer to that Peter

      • Graeme 6.2.2

        It's totally dependant on the infected person also having 1/ the COVID app installed and running, and 2/ that person also having the bluetooth functionality enabled. And then it's still a maybe, as in not going to be 100%. But way better than nothing if both are using the app.

  5. WeTheBleeple 7

    For admins notes: Just had to ditch a browser called Bing that came with Windows as I set up Windows. It does not know where NZ is nor any of it's business entities. I simply couldn't get The Standard in a search result despite using all manner of trickery. Stuff I needed to find via Canterbury Press! Garbage browser… Chrome it is.

    • Incognito 7.1

      Yes, I see what you mean. If you search for the standard even confined to Only from New Zealand the ‘hits’ are misses. However, at the bottom of each results page you’ll find Related searches for the standard and that can be more helpful.


      • Andre 7.1.1

        Sometime a few months back the ability to search TS comments using Google on Firefox on Windows 10 went away for me.

        ie, if I wanted to search for when I've been insulting to Colonel Trotter, I used to be able to use google with the search words Andre bowelly site:thestandard.org.nz and it would give me the rude comments I've made. Now it just gives me a listing of author @Andre search results from TS, and sometimes not even that.

        Since the search function here is currently working well, it hasn't been an issue.

    • joe90 7.2

      Bing is Windows default search engine. Results for thestandardnz and the standard nz

    • Brigid 7.3

      You could ditch windoze entirely and install a less buggy OS.


      Firefox is the default browser and works well.

      • Forget now 7.3.1

        I used to use the dual system Ubuntu & Windows option on an old computer before it wore out. Windows was better for gaming (at least for the old strategy games that I play). I like linux-based systems (which Ubuntu & Debian are an offshoot of) more; in theory, than; in practice. Fine for running Open office and webrowsing though. It's just that; I always felt I could do so much more with it if I only took the time to learn, so I really got to feel my age, and digital semi-literacy, whenever I used it. Which is not the operating system's fault.

  6. joe90 9

    The Torygraph on the failed array of quangos, management consultancies and outsourcing firms.

    Why has Britain fared so poorly with Covid-19? Although blaming this or that minister or official offers an easy answer, the deeper causes lie in the transformation of the British state.

    Britain inherited from World War II a “command and control” state; a state that could govern. Whitehall was well-practised in strategic planning, good at the rapid and efficient mobilisation of resources and people, and it regularly took authoritative, direct action to meet society’s needs.

    Back then, the state could deliver what democratically elected politicians asked of it – to build the NHS, for instance – because it retained the powers, people and resources to do so.

    Today, after 40 years of reform, the “command and control” state has been replaced by a “regulatory state”. Decision-making has shifted from parliament to an archipelago of some 400 “arms-length” quangos, employing more than 278,000 people and costing £205 billion per year. Moreover, the state’s assets – its capacity to execute policy on its own accord – have been outsourced or rationalised.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/rolls-royce-skoda-pandemic-has-exposed-britains-failed-regulatory/ (free)

  7. Jimmy 10

    Does anyone know, in the hotels / MIQ facilities, are for example, day 2 people able to mix with say, day 12 people? eg. at common areas / smoking areas. Hopefully not.

    • Pat 10.1

      I understand 'social distancing' applies in MIQ irrespective of time arrived i.e. between and within groups

    • Enough is Enough 10.2

      I have had two stints in MIQ. One in Hamilton and one in Auckland

      There is no mixing with anyone regardless of the day you arrive.

      You are permitted to attend fixed times for exercise but you are l isolated from anyone else, and you wear a mask and are socially distanced. There is a risk at the juncture, but from my experience no one is 'mixing'.

  8. joe90 11

    About that drive-through testing … probably make self testing a damn sight easier.

    More than a million Beijing residents undergoing coronavirus testing amid a fresh outbreak have been administered anal swabs, which are considered more accurate and raise the chances of detecting COVID-19, said a Chinese disease specialist.


  9. Adrian Thornton 12

    Quite depressing to watch, read and listen to various Liberal 'Left' news sources to again unquestioningly jump on board the US led Venezuela regime change band wagon without missing a step and offering no proof or evidence so soon after these same outlets taking so much effort and time to debunk Trumps obvious bullshit over election fraud in the US…it could make you wonder at some of their other reporting…or so you would think?

    US (and NZ) Media Require No Evidence for Claims of Electoral Fraud—in Venezuela

    "Venezuela’s December 6 parliamentary election offers an instructive case study, with corporate journalists unquestioningly repeating Trump officials’ unsubstantiated allegations of “fraud” there at the same time that they debunked Trump’s virtually identical claims vis-a-vis the US election. And the right-wing violence that was rightly portrayed as a threat to democracy in the US was heartily endorsed as a democratic campaign in Venezuela, where it served Washington’s foreign policy goals.

    The media’s uncritical echoing of fraud allegations is in turn used to justify the continuation of Washington’s regime-change policies. Early signs point to this dynamic continuing in full force under the new Biden administration (Reuters, 1/19/21)."

    • AB 12.1

      Depressing and enraging but entirely predictable.

      At least Biden's going to revive the Iran nuclear deal, so that's something, plus hand out some more cheques (USD1400) to US citizens and rejoin the Paris Accord on climate change. But mostly he's a ludicrous relic of a profoundly broken past, and completely unequal to the historical moment he finds himself in.

      I'm just about past caring – might go plant some things in the garden and catch a fish. To quote Allen Ginsberg from 65 years ago, “America when will you be angelic?”

      • Forget now 12.1.1

        I like this version; with Waits' melancholy setting for Ginsberg's reading, though there is something to be said for the starkness of the bare words.

  10. Forget now 13

    Advice from someone who really knows how to do a checkmate:

    …the UK was uniquely placed to take action against Putin’s inner circle. He argued that the flow of money from Moscow into London had to cease. “It’s very simple. Stop talking and start acting,” he said.

    Kasparov said Russia was at a crossroads following pro-Navalny protests last Saturday in more than 100 Russian cities, with 40,000 people taking to the streets in Moscow. He described the demonstrations as “phenomenal” and the most significant since 1991.

    “They happened despite state propaganda and pressure on people,” he said. “In Europe nobody can now send a more vocal message to the Kremlin than the Brits. As long as the money keeps flowing into London and to the free world, Putin’s power is untouched.”


    It is hard to be a plutocrat when you can't use the money you have looted. Though it's not quite that simple; as Putin's regime still has a lot of guns, and other more terrifying weapons.

    • Barfly 13.1

      Moscow population 12,190,000 approx 40,000 protesters = just over 0.3 % I doubt Putin is losing sleep

      • Forget now 13.1.1

        Barfly, if it's not that significant; why has it not happened any other time in the last 40 years? Has Moscow been just so idyllic that there has been nothing to protest, or has a ruthless exKGB officer seized control of the state apparatus to quash dissent through a program (/pogrom) of murder and intimidation? I believe the latter to be closer to the truth.

        • Brigid

          "there has been nothing to protest"

          Not necessarily. If the guardian, bbc et al haven't reported an event that doesn't prove no event took place.

          • Forget now

            Well, I can't read Cyrillic; but don't you think that someone would have mentioned it somewhere in an english language source somewhere, if so? I am more inclined to trust Kasparov; a chess grandmaster's memory than your uninformed supposition, unless you can provide a link.

            Also that should be; "the last 30 years", not 40. Some clumsy fingers today!

            And the newspapers were fooling, and the ash-trays have retired
            Cause the keyboard has been drinking…

            • Brigid

              The point is, if you're only going to read and believe those publications at the head of your google search you're not going to be very well informed are you.

              Therefore what you believe is based on poor research so your ignorance is your concern and really doesn't interest me.

              • Forget now

                My beliefs don't matter to you so much, that you; felt compelled to leave a reply telling me how they don't matter to you? Okayy…

      • joe90 13.1.2

        Poots doesn't give a rats….

      • roblogic 13.1.3

        Check out the #RussiaProtests tag on twitter. This is a massive movement.

    • Adrian Thornton 13.2

      The true thoughts of the heroic Navalny….bit of a racist Nationalist by the looks of it, but hey the Liberals can use him in their anti Russian boogie man McCarthyite hysteria campaign..so who cares right….


      • Tricledrown 13.2.1

        Nalvany looks like he is just another Putin if the Twitter post is to believed .

        Who knows Russian bot factories Putins financial contribution to Trump Pence The leave Brexit campaign..

  11. Robert Guyton 14

    Attn RedLogix 🙂

    “What if we had a different ur-myth about energy and order in the universe? Imagine, for instance, that our intuitions were still informed more by that world of agrarian smallholders, and less by the industrialized cultures that eclipsed it. Letting our worldview shift further still, we could combine such a retrieval of our deeper past with an appreciation of the highly modern. Imagine, that is, a sense of energy informed not by Victorian science but by more recent physics—from cosmic background radiation to the quantum effervescence of space itself. And imagine, too, a feeling for order that derived less from loose notions of entropic decline, and more from recent work on physical self-organization or the way organisms adaptively harness tiny changes in entropy to drive productive chemical reactions.

    “Imbued with such a worldview, moved and directed by it much as the Victorians were influenced by thermodynamics and Darwinism, we might think and act less in the vein of industrial agriculture, with its mining of natural gas and unidirectional spill of energy. We might be more inclined to let the flywheel of ecology get spinning and investigate the potential allowances of regenerative agriculture. More generally, perhaps we would begin to see that part of the solution to our planetary crisis lies not in hustle, but in repose. Not in catching the next trans-Atlantic flight to an important conference or meeting, but in staying home, contentedly. Not in buying a new more efficient car, but in leaving the old one parked. Perhaps there are many solutions that do not even occur to us, because they resemble passivity rather than action, and we are so deeply trained to hustle.”


  12. Jimmy 15

    Average weekly rent in Auckland now $595pw! Unfortunately I cant see it easing much over the coming year if there is as much demand as they say.


    • satty 16.1

      What solution(s) do you propose?

      I simply can't see how you can make the majority of NZ car drivers reducing their carbon emissions voluntarily. They are used to cheap, second hand car imports, ideally with as big – means polluting – engine as possible (while NZ petrol is still cheap compared to many Western European countries). On top of it, driving is seen as a god-given right, even if it serves very little to no purpose.

      We have now "climate emergency" declared on every level here in Wellington: local, regional and national. Looking forward to the ideas to significantly reduce the transport carbon emission in the near future. Clearly, people have to leave their car at home when going into an office or work from home to achieve any noticeable reduction.

      • bwaghorn 16.1.1

        Buggered if I know but her response on this like her response to house prices the other day reminds me of old dont give a fuck key,its I bit depressing.

  13. Robert Guyton 17

    Amsterdam Is Embracing a Radical New Economic Theory to Help Save the Environment. Could It Also Replace Capitalism?


  14. weka 18

    an explainer for those trying to make sense of the redditors taking down the hedge fund dudes. I think I understood this, most of it at least.

    • Andre 18.1

      Longer form explanation of what's going on:


      The thing about short selling is there is literally no limit to how much money a short seller could be on the hook for. I vaguely recall a comment from last year that short sellers in Tesla stock were in the hole for more than the combined market capitalisation of Ford, GM and Volkswagen combined.

      • roblogic 18.1.1

        Wall St big players have ganged together to stop the free market. Only insider trading allowed now apparently. They shut down the subreddit and Discord on the basis of "hate speech"… because they can't really say the truth: they don't like market manipulation, when it's not themselves doing it.

    • Pat 18.2

      "What does the stock market do? It provides a convenient method of payment for elevated executive salaries and an avenue to riches for people ― usually organizations of rich people ― who want to bet on stocks. Turns out, that’s a lot of people. "


      "The GameStop affair provides an opportunity to update Keynes for the 21st century: If you leave it to professional gamblers to determine the social value of any activity, they will almost always give you the wrong answer, no matter how many of them gamble against each other. They can reward social destruction just as readily as they reward social harmony or a video game store or a well-groomed horse at the starting gate.

      Financial markets cannot tell us what is good and what is bad. They can only tell us what a lot of people thought they could make money on at a certain point in time. The real work of determining what kind of world we want to live in is the proper subject of democracy, not high finance. The Redditors have made this brazenly clear to the world, and for that they should be celebrated rather than condemned.

      The situation, however, does demand a public policy solution. The Redditors have revealed an absurdity by being absurd. The appropriate response is not to demand an orgy of further absurdity, but to do something sensible."

      Nuff said

      • roblogic 18.2.1

        Yeah suddenly it's a loophole that needs regulating. Wall St & DC have deregulated everything and lined their own pockets, plundering the Earth for decades.

  15. Janet 19

    "We have been advised that a small number of people who were in hotel quarantine in the Pullman Hotel in Auckland at the same time as these other cases have since travelled to Australia on green zone flights”

    “We know that 12 people who were in quarantine at the Pullman Hotel have arrived in Sydney. Three of these people have travelled on to Hong Kong and the authorities there have been advised.


    What is going on here ? Extrapolation of the quarantine service which was for Kiwis coming home not for others to use and abuse to go elsewhere.

    • Treetop 19.1

      Is it because it is too hard to get direct flights or it is cheaper to fly so they transit through NZ.

      Surely immigration could keep track somehow and it cannot be excluded that they paid for their own MIQ.

      • Ed 19.1.1

        If that is the case it should be prohibited.

      • joe90 19.1.2

        they transit through NZ.

        In transit passengers remains air side at the airport. Those flying on to other destinations from MIQ would be NZ citizens with the right to do so.

        • Treetop

          I thought people had to disembark once the flight reached NZ. So people transit through NZ and continue on to another destination not leaving the plane?

          • joe90

            Those flying on to another country never enter NZ, remaining air side in one of Dante's circles of hell, the international transit lounge.

        • Graeme

          Pretty simple, there's more quarantine spaces in NZ than Aussie so NZ citizens or residents who have been overseas are using NZ quarantine to get into Australia

          • weka

            NZers coming into NZ presumably don't have to tell the govt why, or how long they intend to stay.

      • bwaghorn 19.1.3

        I bet it's just global citizens who have scammed a nz resident Visa and are useing nz as a back door to other places ,

        • McFlock


          Or reverse-501s: grew up in Aus, didn't need paperwork so still technically NZers and not aussies, got kiwi passport, and now have a quicker path back home through NZ MIQ.

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