World Vegetarian Day October 1st

85 comments on “World Vegetarian Day October 1st ”

• Comments are now closed

1. bill brown 1

   1 October 2009 at 10:46 am

   “…you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat”

   Bullshit, I’m at least some of those things and I use my molars as evolution intended
   • Rob 1.1

     1 October 2009 at 12:02 pm

     Classic, good call.
   • modern 1.2

     1 October 2009 at 1:10 pm

     Wow, and I would have thought the statement was obvious in its meaning… you get it, right? Meat-eating is incredibly bad for the environment, so if you try and live by green principles and you also eat meat then, well, you’re not doing a good job of living by those principles. Meat-eating also constitutes paying for cruelty to take place on your behalf and is unethical for that and other reasons, so if you want to live in an ethical way, and to the extent that progressivism involves a shift towards lives more informed by ethical reasoning, then labelling oneself progressive and continuing to eat meat is also contradictory.

     Not sure about being a socialist. But it doesn’t really alter the broader point, which is that a lot of people who think they live in an environmentally-friendly, ethical, way, haven’t quite removed the blinkers when it comes to their deeply-ingrained meat consumption habits. That includes you.
   • Westminster 1.3

     2 October 2009 at 8:06 am

     With the notable observation that molars are really for chewing plant matter. It’s the incisors that are aimed at the meat side of things…
2. LawGeek 2

   1 October 2009 at 11:27 am

   “To put it simply, you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat.”

   Then Labour and the Greens are in even more trouble than currently appears to be the case. I’d better recant my 100% lefty voting record and immediately join the Act party, for the sin of having eaten meat in the past three decades.

   Christ, are you trying to alienate people who’re potentially sympathetic to what you’re saying?
3. toad 3

   1 October 2009 at 11:28 am

   Sorry, Guest Post, I agree with bill brown.

   That statement is like saying you can’t be a socialist if you own property, or that you can’t be a green if you drive a car. It is that sort of holier than thou self-righteous attitude that puts a lot of people off socialist and green politics.

   I’ve blogged some more about it over here.
4. felix 4

   1 October 2009 at 11:40 am

   …you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat.

   Ok so perhaps the poster could have been a bit more tactful with this line, though I suspect it was deliberately phrased to provoke a response (which seems to be working).

   The underlying point, however, is perfectly valid. Meat farming is incredibly wasteful. It destroys our environment and multiplies the cost of food many times by pushing it through an animal.

   Instead of sniveling and whining and taking personal offense because someone said “yr doin it rong”, why not consider that maybe we are in fact doing it wrong.
5. outofbed 5

   1 October 2009 at 11:48 am

   GP whilst I agree that farming meat isn’t the most economical or environmental way of producing food. I don’t think your find too much sympathy with the statement

   ” you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat’

   There are much bigger battles to fight before attempting that one!

   BTW i have cut down on my meat intake as large amounts are unhealthy for ones bowel …so I’m told
6. marty mars 6

   1 October 2009 at 11:49 am

   If you choose to eat meat make sure it is organic otherwise you may be eating some of the cows from crafar farms.

   Time to walk the green walk not just talk the green talk.
7. roger nome 7

   1 October 2009 at 11:51 am

   After being a vegetarian for 8 years, i’ve started to east fish for the Omega 3 content. You can only get docosahexaenoic acid (omega 3 DHA) from animal products (particularly oily fish such as Salmon and Tuna), and though it can be synthisised from n-3 lenolic acid (which is found in some plants), the bio synthesis is inefficient and may not provide adequate levels.

   DHA is essential for the maintenance of mental health, cardiovascular health and the immune system.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

   This may explain why so many vegetarians i know are sick and depressed.

   So while i’m all for vegetarianism in principle, you may be doing yourself damage by being absolutely vegetarian. I agree with guest post that eating terrestrial animals, and in fact any kind of mammal is unnecessary – and harmful to our world’s fragile ecology.
   • Rob A 7.1

     1 October 2009 at 12:03 pm

     “This may explain why so many vegetarians i know are sick and depressed.”

     I dont know about them but most vegetarians I know are depressing, especially the self righteous twats like this poster
     • roger nome 7.1.1

       1 October 2009 at 12:06 pm

       Own your own emotions Rob A – that the poster makes you depressed says more about you than him/her 🙂
       • Rob A 7.1.1.1

         1 October 2009 at 12:21 pm

         LOL, fair one

         Personally I’d rather not spend too much time around people harping on about thier religion, whatever it may be. Lifes too short to waste it around bores
         • modern 7.1.1.1.1

           1 October 2009 at 1:26 pm

           Dude. It’s not a religion. It’s a more ethical lifestyle. And that’s not simply an opinion – it’s a done and dusted argument amongst those who debate ethics for a living. And if you don’t believe ethics can be subject to reasoned debate, then you quickly lose all grounds for criticising any behaviour by anyone.

           The claim that ‘meat-eating is unethical’ doesn’t stem from some unproven ‘faith’, as the claim that ‘repent or ye shall go to hell’ does. It’s derived from premises that one cannot reject without the whole framework of ethical reasoning being torn apart in consequence. And if you want to do that, I’ve got a punch coming in the direction of your face that is moral in my opinion, immoral in yours, and we’ve got not way of resolving our differences… so tough.

           The post on vegetarianism is exactly along the same lines as the recent post claiming that “Bill English has acted immorally by rorting the taxpayer”. It’s no more “religious” to push an argument that meat-eating is immoral than it is to argue that Douple Dippy has acted immorally. They’re both arguments – it’s what we do around here – with no ‘faith’ or ‘religion’ involved.

           Look, we know you’re feeling a little defensive at the fact your own lifestyle is under scrutiny, and its definitely a natural reaction to try and close down debate so as to avoid that awkward thought that the behaviour your upbringing taught you was normal is in fact quite wrong and bad. But frankly, running away in that manner makes you look like a coward.
           • Rob A 7.1.1.1.1.1

             1 October 2009 at 2:43 pm

             What a load of bollocks.

             Anybody who carries on as if others are somehow less than they are because of a certain belief, be it physical or some sky fairy is nothing but a small minded bigot

             If somebody wants to be a christian, muslim or vegetarian than thats fine with me. Having them tell me I’m not as good as they are because of it is just them extending thier self righteousness (usually extended from some sense of inadaquacies of thier own) and gets dull fast.

             I prefer to be around people that enjoy a good debate from different angles yet are willing to credit each other the intelligence to make up thier own mind. Something I rarely find in people with this posters mindset. The poster did not extend the statement at the end as an arguement, it was a statement of fact according to his/her pathetic view of the world
           • felix 7.1.1.1.1.2

             1 October 2009 at 2:58 pm

             Rob A,

             Just say “I didn’t understand any of that”.

             It’s far more dignified and you’ll be respected for your honesty at least.
   • outofbed 7.2

     1 October 2009 at 12:04 pm

     Unfortunately most fish specise that we eat are now been fished to unsustainable levels. Which is the reason why companies such as Talleys have diversified into farming production.

     Back on topic
     if we reduced our meat consumption it would be a good compromise on an environmental level and great for our health
     “You can’t have everything, where would you put it?”
     • roger nome 7.2.1

       1 October 2009 at 12:10 pm

       OOB – Hoki is a good source of omega 3, and you’re right, they’re getting a hammering. Tuna is also fished unsustainably.

       I do think it’s possible to farm salmon sustainably though, but it’s not without its environmental effects. Having said that, my view is that the benefits to humans outweighs the costs to the environment and the poor hapless (tiny brained) fish.
       • outofbed 7.2.1.1

         1 October 2009 at 12:20 pm

         No salmon gets fed on fish meal doesn’t it?
         Totally unsustainable
         Try Forest and birds…
         The Best Fish Guide 07-08 profiles 75 commercial fisheries, guiding consumers towards the best choices according to their ecological ranking

         http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/what-we-do/publications/-best-fish-guide
         • roger nome 7.2.1.1.1

           1 October 2009 at 12:28 pm

           “No salmon gets fed on fish meal doesn’t it?”

           You’re operating on the premise that those fish, which comprise the meal are harvested unsustainably, which i don’t believe has been established.
   • rocky 7.3

     1 October 2009 at 12:08 pm

     Wow what a load of crap.

     Omega 3’s can be found in flaxseed oil, flaxseed ground, rape seed oil, walnuts, and tofu.

     I’ve been vegetarian for more than 10 years, and vegan for almost 10 years. I am in no way sick or depressed, and resent your prejudices.

     The best health studies on vegetarianism / veganism are those done on seventh day adventist communities, as they have meat eaters, vegetarians, and vegans in their communities, and aside from that fact can largely be said to lead the same lifestyle in other respects. Those studies have shown vegetarianism and veganism to be the healthiest choice.

     The only necessary vitamin lacking in a vegan diet (but not a problem for vegetarians) is B12. That’s because it comes from bacteria – in 3rd world countries B12 deficiencies are non-existent because you would get plenty through the drinking water. In the western world now soy-milks, marmite, and various other products are fortified with B12, so it’s becoming less of an issue for vegans.

     I get sick of hearing shit about my diet being “unhealthy” when all scientific studies suggest it will make me live longer. That, and by comparison the vegans I know are in general healthier than the meat eaters I know.
     • roger nome 7.3.1

       1 October 2009 at 12:23 pm

       “Omega 3’s can be found in flaxseed oil, flaxseed ground, rape seed oil, walnuts, and tofu.”

       That’s not under contention – you haven’t read my post or the link properly.
       • rocky 7.3.1.1

         1 October 2009 at 12:33 pm

         Well try this link then.
         • roger nome 7.3.1.1.1

           1 October 2009 at 12:40 pm

           rocky:

           Did you read your own link? It actually supports my argument.

           Alpha-linolenic acid is what is known as an omega 3 fat, and is a precursor of the longer chain omega 3 fats eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) – ie EPA and to a lesser extent DHA can be made in the body from ALA. These two fatty acids are the ones available in significant amounts in oily fish, and fish oil supplements. All three omega 3 fats have been shown to offer numerous physiological benefits, notably their anti-inflamatory properties and their ability to offer cardioprotective effects especially in people with pre-existing cardiovascular problems, though EPA and DHA are more potent than simple ALA.

           Generally, vegetarian, and especially vegan, diets are relatively low in ALA compared with LA, and provide little EPA and DHA directly (though a certain amount of DHA is found in eggs, especially from hens fed on flax seeds or algae), and tissue levels of long chain omega 3 fatty acids have been shown to be relatively low in vegetarians and vegans, even though ALA intake varies little across vegans, vegetarians and omnivores.
           • rocky 7.3.1.1.1.1

             1 October 2009 at 1:14 pm

             Yes roger nome I did read the link, and thanks for your patronising tone. Much appreciated.

             If you read my link you’ll see that one teaspoon of flax seed oil per day (either in salad dressing or in a capsule or whatever), provides plenty of ALA, and fairly insignificant levels of LA.

             So your argument that you can’t eat healthily on a vegetarian or vegan diet doesn’t stack up. As on an omnivores diet, ensuring you get all the nutrients you need comes from knowing what you need and where to source it.

             I get my ALA from the oatmeal I eat in the morning which has flax seed in it.
         • roger nome 7.3.1.1.2

           1 October 2009 at 12:43 pm

           Rocky:

           In your own link it is stated that:

           “tissue levels of long chain omega 3 fatty acids have been shown to be relatively low in vegetarians and vegans,”

           Do you agree that that could be potentially risky for the health of vegetarians and vegans?
           • rocky 7.3.1.1.2.1

             1 October 2009 at 1:37 pm

             As above, not if you are aware of it and eat the right foods.
         • roger nome 7.3.1.1.3

           2 October 2009 at 3:05 pm

           Rocky – that’s simply not true. You’re risking your health if you’re hoping that the ala is converted to DHA in the human body. It isn’t.

           The principal biological role of alpha-linolenic acid ($alpha$LNA; 18:3n-3) appears to be as a precursor for the synthesis of longer chain n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA). Increasing $alpha$LNA intake for a period of weeks to months results in an increase in the proportion of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA; 20:5n-3) in plasma lipids, in erythrocytes, leukocytes, platelets and in breast milk but there is no increase in docosahexaenoic acid (DHA; 22:6n-3),

           http://rnd.edpsciences.org/index.php?option=article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/rnd/abs/2005/05/r5505/r5505.html
     • Byron 7.3.2

       1 October 2009 at 4:26 pm

       Don’t forget mushrooms and seaweed as B12 sources
   • uroskin 7.4

     1 October 2009 at 1:11 pm

     Not taking in animal protein isn’t vegetarian, but vegan, and I agree I rarely meet or see healthy vegans
     • A healthy vegan 7.4.1

       1 October 2009 at 3:38 pm

       thats cos we are all avoiding you
       a healthy vegan
8. Armchair Critic 8

   1 October 2009 at 11:53 am

   Great post, except the second to last sentence, which seriously detracted from the good work you had done up until that point.
9. The Voice of Reason 9

   1 October 2009 at 12:00 pm

   Spot on, Felix.

   It’s a ‘think globally, act locally’ thing as I see it. By taking responsibility for our own actions and minimising the damage we do as individuals, we can have a worldwide affect. That can take many forms; tree planting, biking to work sometimes or vegetarian food if that works for you. If the post makes lefties think even for a moment about making a change, even for a day, then that’s for the good.

   What really is sanctimonious is expecting the rest of the world to take action on climate change, hunger, poverty and the other ‘big’ issues, while not addressing the ‘little’ issue of what can I do myself to make a difference.

   And the great thing about evolution, BB, is that we are the only species that can make a conscious choice about these things. And I’m happy to be corrected if there are any anthropologists out there, but I’m pretty certain we didn’t start out as meat eaters anyway. And trust me, your molars won’t fall out if you go for the vege option this lunchtime.
10. bill brown 10

    1 October 2009 at 12:14 pm

    My comment was on the exclusionary language.
11. roger nome 11

    1 October 2009 at 12:16 pm

    bill – do you also rape, pillage and eat other humans as our ancestors did? doh!
    • bill brown 11.1

      1 October 2009 at 12:18 pm

      No, I don’t.
      • roger nome 11.1.1

        1 October 2009 at 12:25 pm

        Well – do you concede then that it’s logically fallacious to use “our ancestors did it, therefore it’s ok if I do it” as a justification for your unethical behaviour?
        • bill brown 11.1.1.1

          1 October 2009 at 12:27 pm

          Where did I do that?
          • roger nome 11.1.1.1.1

            1 October 2009 at 12:29 pm

            bill – don’t be disingenuous. You did use that line of reasoning.
            • bill brown 11.1.1.1.1.1

              1 October 2009 at 12:56 pm

              Sorry, you’ve lost me there.
12. Zepher 12

    1 October 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Second to last line was off.

    I don’t think going vegetarian is for everyone. We are all genetically different including our stomachs. Suplements may help get some of the nutrients meat would provide but there is still a lot to be learned about nutrition. I do think we need more ecological methods in agriculture and less food wastage. Organic meat is preferrable but sometimes not practical for some bigger or more poorer families.
13. felix 13

    1 October 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Slightly off topic, but could someone explain what the “goat issues” category is for?
    • IrishBill 13.1

      1 October 2009 at 12:55 pm

      I believe it’s a remnant of the brief period we allowed Robinsod to guest post.
      • outofbed 13.1.1

        1 October 2009 at 12:57 pm

        i miss him
      • felix 13.1.2

        1 October 2009 at 1:34 pm

        Ah I see. I suppose if it had been Billy it would’ve been pig issues.

        I miss them both.
        • outofbed 13.1.2.1

          1 October 2009 at 1:42 pm

          You never saw them in the same room together
14. willaspish 14

    1 October 2009 at 12:47 pm

    As we ‘started off’ as DNA molecules in a ‘soup’, of course we didn’t eat meat. Some of our more distant ancestors (those that lived in trees) were vegan, more recent ones ate loads of meat. Some ate both. As e vegetarian who wore leather shoes once pointed out to me, minimisation is also good.
15. Draco T Bastard 15

    1 October 2009 at 12:50 pm

    So, any recommendations for good vegetarian cook books?

    Actually, I think the big problem is that people, especially in the western world, grew up with really bad diets (even centuries ago the rest of Europe considered the meat heavy British diet unhealthy) and don’t know what to do to change it. Hell, they probably don’t even realise that their diet needs changing.
16. Scott 16

    1 October 2009 at 1:29 pm

    I’m perfectly happy for someone to live a vegetarian lifestyle. But spare me the holier-than-though BS.

    Since when were fruit, vegetable and grain growers immune from bad environmental practices? For example, pesticides, landclearing etc etc. Maybe that pasta isn’t as virtuous as you think.

    If you want to be a “real” progressive, stop driving a car, don’t take the bus (it still pollutes, y’know), don’t use electricity or plastics, move into a teepee, and stop exhaling CO2.
    • rocky 16.1

      1 October 2009 at 1:33 pm

      Well you see, grain is fed to animals and then people eat animals, so actually you’ll talking about the environmental damage being done twice (more actually, because you feed a lot more grain and water to animals than you get back in meat or dairy).

      As for the holier than though BS, I think the point is that generally it is vegetarians and vegans having to defend their lifestyle rather than the other way around. World Vegetarian Day is supposed to be the one day of the year where the roles are reversed.
      • Scott 16.1.1

        1 October 2009 at 2:00 pm

        I have no problem with the lifestyle. Feel free to defend it as you see fit.

        But the post struck me as more of an attack than a defence.
    • felix 16.2

      1 October 2009 at 1:39 pm

      The point is not that any one method of producing food is “immune from bad environmental practices”.

      It’s that some methods are inherently and unavoidably many many times worse than others.

      It’s a rather absurd logical reduction you’re attempting.
      • Scott 16.2.1

        1 October 2009 at 2:05 pm

        But the point I was making is that almost everything we do, eat and consume is harmful to the environment in some way. We all make compromises on this stuff every day, but we all know we can do more. That doesn’t mean we’re no longer “progressive” or “green”.
17. ieuan 17

    1 October 2009 at 1:31 pm

    How does my eating or not eating meat that is grown here in New Zealand have any effect on the rain forests of Brazil??

    And can someone explain to be me what you average high country farm would be used for if it was not a sheep farm?

    I’m in awe of the vegans, there diet only works if they eat food that has had B12 artificially added but other than that they are ‘natural’ and ‘healthier’ than the rest of us.

    Ask any nutritionalist and they say ‘eat a balanced diet, less of the bad stuff and more of the good stuff and exercise’, that is how to stay healthy, not completely cutting out a very important food group and pretending you are saving the world.
    • rocky 17.1

      1 October 2009 at 1:36 pm

      Tell me why meat is a “very important food group”. What exactly do you get out of it that you can’t get from other sources?

      I’m not arguing that meat grown in NZ effects the rain forests in Brazil – my reasons for not eating meat are purely animal welfare (though I like the added bonus of better health and less of a carbon footprint).
      • ieuan 17.1.1

        1 October 2009 at 5:02 pm

        That is the ‘very important food group’ that is essential to a young baby as they are growing up.
    • modern 17.2

      1 October 2009 at 2:39 pm

      “How does my eating or not eating meat that is grown here in New Zealand have any effect on the rain forests of Brazil??”

      Demand and supply…. you pay more for NZ meat, NZ meat gets more expensive, overseas consumers substitute towards Brazilian meat, Brazilian meat production rises, profitability of destroying rainforest for beef pasture rises, Amazon gets destroyed.

      “And can someone explain to be me what you average high country farm would be used for if it was not a sheep farm?”

      What does it matter? But, for the record, probably it would be left to revert to bush. With nice consequences for greenhouse gas emissions. So what happens to this land does not in any way alter the simple arguments against eating meat.
18. Bill 18

    1 October 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Another political term bastardised and rendered (pun intentional) meaningless.

    “The personal is political” never meant that your lifestyle preferences and consumer choices were meant to be considered as political. Rather, it was always intended to challenge the hypocrisy present in many political movements….such as patriarchal behaviour permeating the private sphere while in the political sphere we preached equality.

    Or in other words it was an attempt to ensure that the means justified the ends or recognition that the ends would reflect a condensation of all the layers of means.

    Next I’ll be hearing that free love was a term born in the heat of the hippy meatfuck fest.
    • The Voice of Reason 18.1

      1 October 2009 at 3:16 pm

      Not sure that I agree. Or that the writer of the article (though not, apparently, the author of the phrase) agrees. Carol Hanish comments (http://scholar.alexanderstreet.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=2259) that the phrase has been revised, and abused, but she does not seem overly concerned about that.

      If I read it right, the premise of her original article is that we cannot ‘fix’ the personal without addressing the political. Collective freedoms are needed for personal freedom. That does not preclude the possibility that individual contributions can assist a wider struggle. That seems to me to be the context for the use of the phrase in this post.
      • Bill 18.1.1

        1 October 2009 at 4:38 pm

        I wish we could have anticipated all the ways that “The Personal Is Political” (…) would be revised and misused.(….) While it’s necessary that theories take their knocks in the real world, like everything else, many of us have learned that once they leave our hands, they need to be defended against revisionism and misuse.
        — Carol Hanisch

        My emphasis….and my reading ( thanks for the link btw. didn’t realise the phrase arose from a paper per se. I was exposed to the idea in the early 80s by the feminists around me…anyway) is that the personal was never meant to be elevated above the broader political but that it was crucial to understand the impact of the personal on the political if decent political outcomes were being sought.

        It is people who determine the political after all….so to have a polity producing desired outcomes, it is necessary that the agents involved in changing the polity have an eye on their own actions so that there is a continuity between the two.

        Otherwise there is hypocrisy and, probably more to the point, no chance of substantive changes….just creating parodies of what it was that was being sought to be over come in the first place.

        So, for example, socialists who are blind to patriarchy will reproduce abusive relations in their socialist creation.

        But to elevate ‘the personal is political’ to a primary ‘stand alone’ political perspective, as many people do and claim that that is the be all and end all is absurd…..individualism….lifestyleism.
19. Sam 19

    1 October 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Hey check this out, when I clicked that the awards were being held on world vegetarian day I had a wee chuckle: http://www.retailmeat.org.nz/young_butcher_of_the_year. I’ve been vego for ten years or so, and every world vegetarian day I joke that this is the one day each year when I should eat meat….
    • The Voice of Reason 19.1

      1 October 2009 at 3:30 pm

      Ironic, huh?

      Similarly, I find the TV ads for red meat featuring the 3 sportswoman dancing around while a T Rex song plays in the background totally bogus.

      Marc Bolan was a vegetarian all his adult life, apart from a brief period while touring the States in the early seventies where he could not find suitable food. That flirtation with flesh left him fat and sick and on his return to Europe he opted to go vegetarian again and remained so for the rest of his sadly foreshortened life.
20. Rick 20

    1 October 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Roger Nome

    “This may explain why so many vegetarians i know are sick and depressed”.

    Why not point your sick & depressed vegetarian people in the direction of those who have enjoyed vibrant good health for decades?

    I went to a gathering of 71 vegans and 4 vegetarians on the weekend and what a vital, caring bunch of people they are! I’m stopping eating everything to do with animals on account of them being so alive and so positive. The meat’s already gone (no big deal). The cheese, eggs and milk are next.

    The depression I can understand. Once you really open up to learning about how foul it is to eat animals and their secretions, you do feel depressed about the crap we give out to them.

    Having said that, I know some pretty sick & depressed meat eaters too – I was one of them.

    Try and get hold of the new book called “The Face on Your Plate”. It’s a good read.
21. Eliot 21

    1 October 2009 at 3:37 pm

    From the perspective of a healthy vegan who works one floor above a snack bar, across the road from a McDs, and round the corner from a road lined with bars, I’d say NZ’s in a bad state health-wise. Obesity, heart disease, cancers, most modern diseases spring from problems of diet, and that’s not just talking about eating meat.
    In my experience I’d say vegetarians & vegans are more healthy (and happier) for the simple reason they read the ingredient list on packets in the supermarket
22. William 22

    1 October 2009 at 3:43 pm

    I don’t mean to be negative here…

    I’m Vegan ok. I was vegetarian for 4 months before going Vegan and on reflection I do not possibly see how my ethical reasons for going vegetarian for valid ethical reasons.

    -Against Animal Exploitation – Milk and Egg industries, for example, are huge exploiters of Animals.
    -Opposed to killing Animals – Again, Milk and Egg industries result in the slaughter of their animals and male chicks too.
    -I wore leather and wool, used products tested on Animals – These are all awful but Vegetarianism doesn’t advocate to cease use of these.

    Veganism is the best way to combat Animal Exploitation as much as we can – Go Vegan.
23. Bruce Hamilton 23

    1 October 2009 at 4:14 pm

    One of the obvious dietary side effects is the unjustified sanctimoniousness of some vegetarian posters and their willingness to condemn those who choose alternative foods. Consider the strange DHA – ALA discussion above – especially given the recent research that allegedly shows that plant-based dietary ALA does not generate meaningful concentrations of EPA and DHA in humans.

    Many of the characteristics of evangelism appear in vegetarian discussions, so maybe “vegetarian” should be classified as a religion, rather than a lifestyle choice.
24. Jessie 24

    1 October 2009 at 5:00 pm

    All other arguments aside, you shouldn’t take what you don’t need.

    One doesn’t need meat to survive or be healthy, therefore in this day and age it is both barbaric and wasteful to do so. It is different for people who live in areas where food is scarce where there are no other resources. Animals suffer so terribly to provide things that are unnecessary (as well as a wasteful use of resource) to people.

    In the modern age it’s perfectly easy to eat mostly locally and be vegetarian or vegan. There are a lot of misnomers about regarding what we eat!

    By the way! I don’t know one single sick or depressed vegetarian or vegan who are sick or depressed by their eating choice… and I know about 200. In fact, I know four beautiful, healthy vegan babies right now, coming from amazing vegan families. The people are professional, most of them have degrees or are tertiary educated (read: intelligent) and kind.

    As regards to health, a vegetarian should only need a supplement from time to time just as a meat eater would need, just as a vegan would need. The science proves that no way of eating is particularly superior, you can be healthy in any way. In saying that, less meat is healthier for you so making the switch (for someone who relies a lot on meat) could mean that a vegan diet improves their health.

    All of this rhetoric means that eating meat is merely a choice of conscience, nothing more.
    • Quoth the Raven 24.1

      1 October 2009 at 7:10 pm

      All other arguments aside, you shouldn’t take what you don’t need.

      You must led a fairly ascetic life then. I myself enjoy greatly those things which I do not need.
25. Bill 25

    1 October 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Sweet, Sweet Sue. Does anyone say it yummier?.
26. Chris Noaro 26

    1 October 2009 at 7:03 pm

    Hiding beneath the surface of every critic of vegetarianism is a wimpering gutless hypocrite – the kind of person too weak to put restraints on their eating to alleviate the suffering of other creatures; many of whom would never themselves kill the animals they eat but will pay someone else to do it; and in the case of males, the sort of ‘men ‘ probably already suffering the same kind of impotence of the mind and character that meat-eating is known to cause sexually.
    • ieuan 26.1

      1 October 2009 at 8:35 pm

      Wow your a bundle of laughs aren’t you.

      So much pent up anger for someone so in tune with the ‘suffering of other creatures’.
27. phil ure 27

    1 October 2009 at 9:04 pm

    i’ve been vegan for ten years..vegetarian for twenty before that..

    i know people who have been vegan for 40+ years..

    and lots of other vegans..

    one thing they have in common..

    is glowing good health..

    i also have three vegan dogs..

    one 10 yrs old..her six yr old daughter..

    and another 2 yr old..

    the mother was vegan during the pregnancy..

    these dogs could do centrefolds for ‘dog monthly’..

    their coats are so shiny..you need to wear shades..

    i know lots of other vegan dogs..

    and one thing thay all have in common..

    is glowing good health..

    more here..

    http://whoar.co.nz/?s=vegan

    (someone asked for vegan recipies..?

    there are more there than you can poke a stick at..)

    and to the author..good on you for going vegetarian..

    but you really should try the next step..

    and go vegan..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)
28. phil ure 28

    1 October 2009 at 9:18 pm

    this is worth reading..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2009/who-you-callin-vegangelical/

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    [lprent: careful about link-whoring. please ]
29. Brett Dale 29

    1 October 2009 at 9:56 pm

    Each to their own, hope your feeling healthy.

    I have to disagree with yuor statement that you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat’

    Any one from any political ideology can have any diet they please.
30. Elizabeth Collins 30

    1 October 2009 at 10:32 pm

    Ditto on the healthy vegans. It is a very common and recurring theme for people who are resisting the idea of veganism to say “I know so many vegans and they are all sick and unhealthy.” Well I would like to know where they all are, because I don’t know any, and as a vegan, I know a lot of vegans.
    The main point, as always, is being missed. If someone has genuine concerns about the health aspect of a vegan diet, there is so much information out there. Any vegan I know would bend over backwards to help anyone who was considering veganism, because we desperately want to end the slaughter of billions of innocent, sentient animals. It is about THEM, not us. I suggest to anyone that they try veganism. They will be very pleasantly surprised at the outcome. If you care, if you think causing unnecessary pain suffering and death on animals is wrong (and most of us do) then the way to address that issue is to go vegan, and veganism is so incredibly easy, especially now more than ever. You just have to educate yourself on what a balanced vegan diet is, and just do it. It’s so easy!
    To paraphrase something that was written by a really great advocate for veganism I know: “…if you have any desire to pursue the vegan lifestyle or philosophy, and it is… health issues that prohibit you from doing this…[then any number of incredible resources, vegans, books, vegan doctors, etc etc etc, would be more than happy to help]…If you have no interest in veganism, and would prefer to continue eating animal products, then pointing to…health issues as the reason is misleading….”

    I would like to add, without in any way meaning any offense or judgment, but just stating reality in fact, that vegetarianism in our culture is omnivorism. There are omissions of some animal products, usually cows and sheep and pigs flesh, but vegetarianism in NZ still involves consuming many other animal products, even flesh sometimes (of fish and/or chicken), and overwhelmingly includes dairy products which is one of the most barbarically cruel use of non-humans there is. I have to say veganism, because vegetarianism as we know it in our culture is doing nothing significant to alleviate the suffering and slaughter of animals, help the environment or address the fundamental wrongness of our species’ use of all living sentient beings as our chattel property, slaves, renewable resources, objects of sport, entertainment, unconsenting biomedical subjects etc.

    You can call me self righteous, holier than thou, radical, I have heard them all, but too bad. It is not about me, it is about them. I don’t enjoy abuse, but name calling is nothing compared to what a dairy cow and her calf go through, just to name one of millions of horrific examples, and if we don’t speak out for them, who will? Good on everyone for coming on here and being a voice for the animals, and for anyone who is skeptical yet interested, please, don’t take our word for it! Go out there with an open mind and critical thinking and examine all the information, on the environment, diet, ecology and most of all, peace and non violence. Look to your own heart and mind for the answer, don’t believe the hype, go out there and find out for yourselves. Ask yourself what you prefer: horrific violence, torture and death to billions of animals a year, or peace, kindness, and justice. I think true strength and honour is not using your power to cause harm, true nobility is mercy and kindness, and it takes a real man or woman to be benevolent and merciful, that is strength, especially to go against the status quo and stand up to all the violence and speak out against it. Vegans are in no way weak, no way.
31. phil ure 31

    1 October 2009 at 11:12 pm

    i think you are missing the point here brett…

    that point being that ignoring the realities of meat consumption..

    just makes lies of any ‘professed-progressive/greenie-ideals’

    it is the huge elephant in their rooms..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)
32. phil ure 32

    2 October 2009 at 12:01 pm

    “..[lprent: careful about link-whoring. please ]..”

    could i clarify your policies/definitions of ‘link-whoring’..?

    in a thread about not eating animals..

    i linked readers to 1)..the ‘vegan stuff’ category on the news aggregator site i run..

    where there are 900+ stories/links on that very subject/topic..

    including bulk vegan recipies..(which an earlier commentor asked about..)

    i also posted what i think is one of the most cogent arguments for this cause/school of thought i have read..

    is this ‘link-whoring’..?

    and anyway..(just stepping back for a larger look)..what exactly is the problem with helping/promoting other members of the new media..?

    especially..but not particularly..

    ..when they are sorta marching in the same direction as yourselves..?

    and i shall now make good on those words..by going to whoar..

    and linking to the excellent vid on the other thread..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)
    • lprent 32.1

      2 October 2009 at 12:47 pm

      Yep, that is why it didn’t simply get booted. It at least had the topic in the url.

      However readers on this site would have had to have read the link to find out why you thought it was important. If you’re going to put links in, then you should say on your comment why people should look at the link, not just say something like “this is interesting” and put a link in. That is a standard technique of the spambots who want people to click through. It raises my alarm bells.

      If you’d said “these are my views on veganism and why I think ….” then I wouldn’t be concerned. You’d have given information to the local users why you felt it was a good link to view.
      • phil ure 32.1.1

        2 October 2009 at 9:49 pm

        cool..!..thanks for clarifying that..

        phil(whoar.co.nz)
33. Spider_Pig 33

    2 October 2009 at 12:55 pm

    “Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demiglace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food.” – A. Bourdain.

    Never truer words spoken.
    • Elizabeth Collins 33.1

      2 October 2009 at 8:04 pm

      Opinions founded on prejudice are always sustained with the greatest violence.
      –Hebrew Proverb
34. sir topham hat 34

    3 October 2009 at 10:15 pm

    as a strict vegetarian (mostly vegan) i have to admit i found the last line a little foolish. I have a strong (possibly irrational?) fear of being overly intense about the whole business – and sometimes feel overly rabid vegetarians put us all down a little. Though a strong approach makes you popular with the already converted, it makes everyone else irritated and occasionally insecure. I don’t really feel the health issues are particularly relevant, i dont want to rant or imply that i am the most amazingly wonderful person in existence, but i dont find it a problem. after 16 years of vegetarianism, my brain is just fine thank you. (no worse than before anyway!) i’m also fairly fit and pretty much never sick. (i dont even try that hard!). Sorry if this in the ‘crazy, self righteous vegan’ category – but i felt as a person of experience (in this matter alone i might add!) i might as well say something.

    p.s. if meat is your priority in life then obviously vegetarianism isn’t for you! (in response to the ‘all meat is wondrous and life without it would be unimaginably dull’ post.

Links to post

1. The righteousness of the politically pure « g.blog: posted on 1 October 2009 at 11:22 am
2. Kiwipolitico » Blog Archive » Maybe the greens are doomed after all: posted on 1 October 2009 at 2:54 pm
3. World Farm Animal Day – Oct 2nd at The Standard: posted on 2 October 2009 at 6:01 am

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS