World Vegetarian Day October 1st

Written By: - Date published: 10:32 am, October 1st, 2009 - 82 comments
Categories: animal welfare, Environment, health - Tags:

I’m a vegetarian and today, October 1st, is the worldwide day to celebrate the benefits of not eating meat and the healthy contribution to a better society vegetarianism makes.

The personal is political. My choice to eschew meat for 30 years has exposed me to abuse from chefs, sexually coded remarks from ‘red blooded’ men, difficulties in relationships with meat eating girlfriends, awkwardness at social occasions and, initially, health problems due to not balancing my protein intake properly. The last issue is easily overcome with a bit of research and the occasional supplement and the dismissive attitude of others is fast fading anyway.

For example, the latter part of those three decades I have seen vege options appear at Macca’s, All Blacks’ eating salads and the best ever episode of the Simpsons (Lisa the Vegetarian) all confirming that vegetarianism is a valid, accepted and growing lifestyle option in the western world.

It’s not just good for my health, but also my sense of self worth and if there is such a thing as karma, I reckon the Buddha rates me. Call me smug, but I don’t feel I have to plant a tree every time I travel, though I do anyway. Given that growing grain to feed animals that will be killed to feed humans is economically and environmentally ass-backward and currently involves the destruction of swathes of rainforest in Brasil and other productive land worldwide, I reckon it’s a class issue as well.

To put it simply, you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat. This mealtime, skip the pie and go for the pasta. The world will thank you for it.

82 comments on “World Vegetarian Day October 1st”

  1. bill brown 1

    “…you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat”

    Bullshit, I’m at least some of those things and I use my molars as evolution intended

    • Rob 1.1

      Classic, good call.

    • modern 1.2

      Wow, and I would have thought the statement was obvious in its meaning… you get it, right? Meat-eating is incredibly bad for the environment, so if you try and live by green principles and you also eat meat then, well, you’re not doing a good job of living by those principles. Meat-eating also constitutes paying for cruelty to take place on your behalf and is unethical for that and other reasons, so if you want to live in an ethical way, and to the extent that progressivism involves a shift towards lives more informed by ethical reasoning, then labelling oneself progressive and continuing to eat meat is also contradictory.

      Not sure about being a socialist. But it doesn’t really alter the broader point, which is that a lot of people who think they live in an environmentally-friendly, ethical, way, haven’t quite removed the blinkers when it comes to their deeply-ingrained meat consumption habits. That includes you.

    • Westminster 1.3

      With the notable observation that molars are really for chewing plant matter. It’s the incisors that are aimed at the meat side of things…

  2. LawGeek 2

    “To put it simply, you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat.”

    Then Labour and the Greens are in even more trouble than currently appears to be the case. I’d better recant my 100% lefty voting record and immediately join the Act party, for the sin of having eaten meat in the past three decades.

    Christ, are you trying to alienate people who’re potentially sympathetic to what you’re saying?

  3. toad 3

    Sorry, Guest Post, I agree with bill brown.

    That statement is like saying you can’t be a socialist if you own property, or that you can’t be a green if you drive a car. It is that sort of holier than thou self-righteous attitude that puts a lot of people off socialist and green politics.

    I’ve blogged some more about it over here.

  4. felix 4

    …you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat.

    Ok so perhaps the poster could have been a bit more tactful with this line, though I suspect it was deliberately phrased to provoke a response (which seems to be working).

    The underlying point, however, is perfectly valid. Meat farming is incredibly wasteful. It destroys our environment and multiplies the cost of food many times by pushing it through an animal.

    Instead of sniveling and whining and taking personal offense because someone said “yr doin it rong”, why not consider that maybe we are in fact doing it wrong.

  5. outofbed 5

    GP whilst I agree that farming meat isn’t the most economical or environmental way of producing food. I don’t think your find too much sympathy with the statement

    ” you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat’

    There are much bigger battles to fight before attempting that one!

    BTW i have cut down on my meat intake as large amounts are unhealthy for ones bowel …so I’m told

  6. If you choose to eat meat make sure it is organic otherwise you may be eating some of the cows from crafar farms.

    Time to walk the green walk not just talk the green talk.

  7. roger nome 7

    After being a vegetarian for 8 years, i’ve started to east fish for the Omega 3 content. You can only get docosahexaenoic acid (omega 3 DHA) from animal products (particularly oily fish such as Salmon and Tuna), and though it can be synthisised from n-3 lenolic acid (which is found in some plants), the bio synthesis is inefficient and may not provide adequate levels.

    DHA is essential for the maintenance of mental health, cardiovascular health and the immune system.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

    This may explain why so many vegetarians i know are sick and depressed.

    So while i’m all for vegetarianism in principle, you may be doing yourself damage by being absolutely vegetarian. I agree with guest post that eating terrestrial animals, and in fact any kind of mammal is unnecessary – and harmful to our world’s fragile ecology.

    • Rob A 7.1

      “This may explain why so many vegetarians i know are sick and depressed.”

      I dont know about them but most vegetarians I know are depressing, especially the self righteous twats like this poster

      • roger nome 7.1.1

        Own your own emotions Rob A – that the poster makes you depressed says more about you than him/her 🙂

        • Rob A 7.1.1.1

          LOL, fair one

          Personally I’d rather not spend too much time around people harping on about thier religion, whatever it may be. Lifes too short to waste it around bores

          • modern 7.1.1.1.1

            Dude. It’s not a religion. It’s a more ethical lifestyle. And that’s not simply an opinion – it’s a done and dusted argument amongst those who debate ethics for a living. And if you don’t believe ethics can be subject to reasoned debate, then you quickly lose all grounds for criticising any behaviour by anyone.

            The claim that ‘meat-eating is unethical’ doesn’t stem from some unproven ‘faith’, as the claim that ‘repent or ye shall go to hell’ does. It’s derived from premises that one cannot reject without the whole framework of ethical reasoning being torn apart in consequence. And if you want to do that, I’ve got a punch coming in the direction of your face that is moral in my opinion, immoral in yours, and we’ve got not way of resolving our differences… so tough.

            The post on vegetarianism is exactly along the same lines as the recent post claiming that “Bill English has acted immorally by rorting the taxpayer”. It’s no more “religious” to push an argument that meat-eating is immoral than it is to argue that Douple Dippy has acted immorally. They’re both arguments – it’s what we do around here – with no ‘faith’ or ‘religion’ involved.

            Look, we know you’re feeling a little defensive at the fact your own lifestyle is under scrutiny, and its definitely a natural reaction to try and close down debate so as to avoid that awkward thought that the behaviour your upbringing taught you was normal is in fact quite wrong and bad. But frankly, running away in that manner makes you look like a coward.

            • Rob A 7.1.1.1.1.1

              What a load of bollocks.

              Anybody who carries on as if others are somehow less than they are because of a certain belief, be it physical or some sky fairy is nothing but a small minded bigot

              If somebody wants to be a christian, muslim or vegetarian than thats fine with me. Having them tell me I’m not as good as they are because of it is just them extending thier self righteousness (usually extended from some sense of inadaquacies of thier own) and gets dull fast.

              I prefer to be around people that enjoy a good debate from different angles yet are willing to credit each other the intelligence to make up thier own mind. Something I rarely find in people with this posters mindset. The poster did not extend the statement at the end as an arguement, it was a statement of fact according to his/her pathetic view of the world

            • felix 7.1.1.1.1.2

              Rob A,

              Just say “I didn’t understand any of that”.

              It’s far more dignified and you’ll be respected for your honesty at least.

    • outofbed 7.2

      Unfortunately most fish specise that we eat are now been fished to unsustainable levels. Which is the reason why companies such as Talleys have diversified into farming production.

      Back on topic
      if we reduced our meat consumption it would be a good compromise on an environmental level and great for our health
      “You can’t have everything, where would you put it?”

      • roger nome 7.2.1

        OOB – Hoki is a good source of omega 3, and you’re right, they’re getting a hammering. Tuna is also fished unsustainably.

        I do think it’s possible to farm salmon sustainably though, but it’s not without its environmental effects. Having said that, my view is that the benefits to humans outweighs the costs to the environment and the poor hapless (tiny brained) fish.

    • rocky 7.3

      Wow what a load of crap.

      Omega 3’s can be found in flaxseed oil, flaxseed ground, rape seed oil, walnuts, and tofu.

      I’ve been vegetarian for more than 10 years, and vegan for almost 10 years. I am in no way sick or depressed, and resent your prejudices.

      The best health studies on vegetarianism / veganism are those done on seventh day adventist communities, as they have meat eaters, vegetarians, and vegans in their communities, and aside from that fact can largely be said to lead the same lifestyle in other respects. Those studies have shown vegetarianism and veganism to be the healthiest choice.

      The only necessary vitamin lacking in a vegan diet (but not a problem for vegetarians) is B12. That’s because it comes from bacteria – in 3rd world countries B12 deficiencies are non-existent because you would get plenty through the drinking water. In the western world now soy-milks, marmite, and various other products are fortified with B12, so it’s becoming less of an issue for vegans.

      I get sick of hearing shit about my diet being “unhealthy” when all scientific studies suggest it will make me live longer. That, and by comparison the vegans I know are in general healthier than the meat eaters I know.

      • roger nome 7.3.1

        “Omega 3’s can be found in flaxseed oil, flaxseed ground, rape seed oil, walnuts, and tofu.”

        That’s not under contention – you haven’t read my post or the link properly.

        • rocky 7.3.1.1

          Well try this link then.

          • roger nome 7.3.1.1.1

            rocky:

            Did you read your own link? It actually supports my argument.

            Alpha-linolenic acid is what is known as an omega 3 fat, and is a precursor of the longer chain omega 3 fats eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) – ie EPA and to a lesser extent DHA can be made in the body from ALA. These two fatty acids are the ones available in significant amounts in oily fish, and fish oil supplements. All three omega 3 fats have been shown to offer numerous physiological benefits, notably their anti-inflamatory properties and their ability to offer cardioprotective effects especially in people with pre-existing cardiovascular problems, though EPA and DHA are more potent than simple ALA.

            Generally, vegetarian, and especially vegan, diets are relatively low in ALA compared with LA, and provide little EPA and DHA directly (though a certain amount of DHA is found in eggs, especially from hens fed on flax seeds or algae), and tissue levels of long chain omega 3 fatty acids have been shown to be relatively low in vegetarians and vegans, even though ALA intake varies little across vegans, vegetarians and omnivores.

            • rocky 7.3.1.1.1.1

              Yes roger nome I did read the link, and thanks for your patronising tone. Much appreciated.

              If you read my link you’ll see that one teaspoon of flax seed oil per day (either in salad dressing or in a capsule or whatever), provides plenty of ALA, and fairly insignificant levels of LA.

              So your argument that you can’t eat healthily on a vegetarian or vegan diet doesn’t stack up. As on an omnivores diet, ensuring you get all the nutrients you need comes from knowing what you need and where to source it.

              I get my ALA from the oatmeal I eat in the morning which has flax seed in it.

          • roger nome 7.3.1.1.2

            Rocky:

            In your own link it is stated that:

            “tissue levels of long chain omega 3 fatty acids have been shown to be relatively low in vegetarians and vegans,”

            Do you agree that that could be potentially risky for the health of vegetarians and vegans?

          • roger nome 7.3.1.1.3

            Rocky – that’s simply not true. You’re risking your health if you’re hoping that the ala is converted to DHA in the human body. It isn’t.

            The principal biological role of alpha-linolenic acid ($alpha$LNA; 18:3n-3) appears to be as a precursor for the synthesis of longer chain n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA). Increasing $alpha$LNA intake for a period of weeks to months results in an increase in the proportion of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA; 20:5n-3) in plasma lipids, in erythrocytes, leukocytes, platelets and in breast milk but there is no increase in docosahexaenoic acid (DHA; 22:6n-3),

            http://rnd.edpsciences.org/index.php?option=article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/rnd/abs/2005/05/r5505/r5505.html

      • Byron 7.3.2

        Don’t forget mushrooms and seaweed as B12 sources

    • uroskin 7.4

      Not taking in animal protein isn’t vegetarian, but vegan, and I agree I rarely meet or see healthy vegans

  8. Armchair Critic 8

    Great post, except the second to last sentence, which seriously detracted from the good work you had done up until that point.

  9. The Voice of Reason 9

    Spot on, Felix.

    It’s a ‘think globally, act locally’ thing as I see it. By taking responsibility for our own actions and minimising the damage we do as individuals, we can have a worldwide affect. That can take many forms; tree planting, biking to work sometimes or vegetarian food if that works for you. If the post makes lefties think even for a moment about making a change, even for a day, then that’s for the good.

    What really is sanctimonious is expecting the rest of the world to take action on climate change, hunger, poverty and the other ‘big’ issues, while not addressing the ‘little’ issue of what can I do myself to make a difference.

    And the great thing about evolution, BB, is that we are the only species that can make a conscious choice about these things. And I’m happy to be corrected if there are any anthropologists out there, but I’m pretty certain we didn’t start out as meat eaters anyway. And trust me, your molars won’t fall out if you go for the vege option this lunchtime.

  10. bill brown 10

    My comment was on the exclusionary language.

  11. roger nome 11

    bill – do you also rape, pillage and eat other humans as our ancestors did? doh!

  12. Zepher 12

    Second to last line was off.

    I don’t think going vegetarian is for everyone. We are all genetically different including our stomachs. Suplements may help get some of the nutrients meat would provide but there is still a lot to be learned about nutrition. I do think we need more ecological methods in agriculture and less food wastage. Organic meat is preferrable but sometimes not practical for some bigger or more poorer families.

  13. felix 13

    Slightly off topic, but could someone explain what the “goat issues” category is for?

  14. willaspish 14

    As we ‘started off’ as DNA molecules in a ‘soup’, of course we didn’t eat meat. Some of our more distant ancestors (those that lived in trees) were vegan, more recent ones ate loads of meat. Some ate both. As e vegetarian who wore leather shoes once pointed out to me, minimisation is also good.

  15. Draco T Bastard 15

    So, any recommendations for good vegetarian cook books?

    Actually, I think the big problem is that people, especially in the western world, grew up with really bad diets (even centuries ago the rest of Europe considered the meat heavy British diet unhealthy) and don’t know what to do to change it. Hell, they probably don’t even realise that their diet needs changing.

  16. Scott 16

    I’m perfectly happy for someone to live a vegetarian lifestyle. But spare me the holier-than-though BS.

    Since when were fruit, vegetable and grain growers immune from bad environmental practices? For example, pesticides, landclearing etc etc. Maybe that pasta isn’t as virtuous as you think.

    If you want to be a “real” progressive, stop driving a car, don’t take the bus (it still pollutes, y’know), don’t use electricity or plastics, move into a teepee, and stop exhaling CO2.

    • rocky 16.1

      Well you see, grain is fed to animals and then people eat animals, so actually you’ll talking about the environmental damage being done twice (more actually, because you feed a lot more grain and water to animals than you get back in meat or dairy).

      As for the holier than though BS, I think the point is that generally it is vegetarians and vegans having to defend their lifestyle rather than the other way around. World Vegetarian Day is supposed to be the one day of the year where the roles are reversed.

      • Scott 16.1.1

        I have no problem with the lifestyle. Feel free to defend it as you see fit.

        But the post struck me as more of an attack than a defence.

    • felix 16.2

      The point is not that any one method of producing food is “immune from bad environmental practices”.

      It’s that some methods are inherently and unavoidably many many times worse than others.

      It’s a rather absurd logical reduction you’re attempting.

      • Scott 16.2.1

        But the point I was making is that almost everything we do, eat and consume is harmful to the environment in some way. We all make compromises on this stuff every day, but we all know we can do more. That doesn’t mean we’re no longer “progressive” or “green”.

  17. ieuan 17

    How does my eating or not eating meat that is grown here in New Zealand have any effect on the rain forests of Brazil??

    And can someone explain to be me what you average high country farm would be used for if it was not a sheep farm?

    I’m in awe of the vegans, there diet only works if they eat food that has had B12 artificially added but other than that they are ‘natural’ and ‘healthier’ than the rest of us.

    Ask any nutritionalist and they say ‘eat a balanced diet, less of the bad stuff and more of the good stuff and exercise’, that is how to stay healthy, not completely cutting out a very important food group and pretending you are saving the world.

    • rocky 17.1

      Tell me why meat is a “very important food group”. What exactly do you get out of it that you can’t get from other sources?

      I’m not arguing that meat grown in NZ effects the rain forests in Brazil – my reasons for not eating meat are purely animal welfare (though I like the added bonus of better health and less of a carbon footprint).

      • ieuan 17.1.1

        That is the ‘very important food group’ that is essential to a young baby as they are growing up.

    • modern 17.2

      “How does my eating or not eating meat that is grown here in New Zealand have any effect on the rain forests of Brazil??”

      Demand and supply…. you pay more for NZ meat, NZ meat gets more expensive, overseas consumers substitute towards Brazilian meat, Brazilian meat production rises, profitability of destroying rainforest for beef pasture rises, Amazon gets destroyed.

      “And can someone explain to be me what you average high country farm would be used for if it was not a sheep farm?”

      What does it matter? But, for the record, probably it would be left to revert to bush. With nice consequences for greenhouse gas emissions. So what happens to this land does not in any way alter the simple arguments against eating meat.

  18. Bill 18

    Another political term bastardised and rendered (pun intentional) meaningless.

    “The personal is political” never meant that your lifestyle preferences and consumer choices were meant to be considered as political. Rather, it was always intended to challenge the hypocrisy present in many political movements….such as patriarchal behaviour permeating the private sphere while in the political sphere we preached equality.

    Or in other words it was an attempt to ensure that the means justified the ends or recognition that the ends would reflect a condensation of all the layers of means.

    Next I’ll be hearing that free love was a term born in the heat of the hippy meatfuck fest.

    • The Voice of Reason 18.1

      Not sure that I agree. Or that the writer of the article (though not, apparently, the author of the phrase) agrees. Carol Hanish comments (http://scholar.alexanderstreet.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=2259) that the phrase has been revised, and abused, but she does not seem overly concerned about that.

      If I read it right, the premise of her original article is that we cannot ‘fix’ the personal without addressing the political. Collective freedoms are needed for personal freedom. That does not preclude the possibility that individual contributions can assist a wider struggle. That seems to me to be the context for the use of the phrase in this post.

      • Bill 18.1.1

        I wish we could have anticipated all the ways that “The Personal Is Political” (…) would be revised and misused.(….) While it’s necessary that theories take their knocks in the real world, like everything else, many of us have learned that once they leave our hands, they need to be defended against revisionism and misuse.
        — Carol Hanisch

        My emphasis….and my reading ( thanks for the link btw. didn’t realise the phrase arose from a paper per se. I was exposed to the idea in the early 80s by the feminists around me…anyway) is that the personal was never meant to be elevated above the broader political but that it was crucial to understand the impact of the personal on the political if decent political outcomes were being sought.

        It is people who determine the political after all….so to have a polity producing desired outcomes, it is necessary that the agents involved in changing the polity have an eye on their own actions so that there is a continuity between the two.

        Otherwise there is hypocrisy and, probably more to the point, no chance of substantive changes….just creating parodies of what it was that was being sought to be over come in the first place.

        So, for example, socialists who are blind to patriarchy will reproduce abusive relations in their socialist creation.

        But to elevate ‘the personal is political’ to a primary ‘stand alone’ political perspective, as many people do and claim that that is the be all and end all is absurd…..individualism….lifestyleism.

  19. Sam 19

    Hey check this out, when I clicked that the awards were being held on world vegetarian day I had a wee chuckle: http://www.retailmeat.org.nz/young_butcher_of_the_year. I’ve been vego for ten years or so, and every world vegetarian day I joke that this is the one day each year when I should eat meat….

    • The Voice of Reason 19.1

      Ironic, huh?

      Similarly, I find the TV ads for red meat featuring the 3 sportswoman dancing around while a T Rex song plays in the background totally bogus.

      Marc Bolan was a vegetarian all his adult life, apart from a brief period while touring the States in the early seventies where he could not find suitable food. That flirtation with flesh left him fat and sick and on his return to Europe he opted to go vegetarian again and remained so for the rest of his sadly foreshortened life.

  20. Rick 20

    Roger Nome

    “This may explain why so many vegetarians i know are sick and depressed”.

    Why not point your sick & depressed vegetarian people in the direction of those who have enjoyed vibrant good health for decades?

    I went to a gathering of 71 vegans and 4 vegetarians on the weekend and what a vital, caring bunch of people they are! I’m stopping eating everything to do with animals on account of them being so alive and so positive. The meat’s already gone (no big deal). The cheese, eggs and milk are next.

    The depression I can understand. Once you really open up to learning about how foul it is to eat animals and their secretions, you do feel depressed about the crap we give out to them.

    Having said that, I know some pretty sick & depressed meat eaters too – I was one of them.

    Try and get hold of the new book called “The Face on Your Plate”. It’s a good read.

  21. Eliot 21

    From the perspective of a healthy vegan who works one floor above a snack bar, across the road from a McDs, and round the corner from a road lined with bars, I’d say NZ’s in a bad state health-wise. Obesity, heart disease, cancers, most modern diseases spring from problems of diet, and that’s not just talking about eating meat.
    In my experience I’d say vegetarians & vegans are more healthy (and happier) for the simple reason they read the ingredient list on packets in the supermarket

  22. William 22

    I don’t mean to be negative here…

    I’m Vegan ok. I was vegetarian for 4 months before going Vegan and on reflection I do not possibly see how my ethical reasons for going vegetarian for valid ethical reasons.

    -Against Animal Exploitation – Milk and Egg industries, for example, are huge exploiters of Animals.
    -Opposed to killing Animals – Again, Milk and Egg industries result in the slaughter of their animals and male chicks too.
    -I wore leather and wool, used products tested on Animals – These are all awful but Vegetarianism doesn’t advocate to cease use of these.

    Veganism is the best way to combat Animal Exploitation as much as we can – Go Vegan.

  23. Bruce Hamilton 23

    One of the obvious dietary side effects is the unjustified sanctimoniousness of some vegetarian posters and their willingness to condemn those who choose alternative foods. Consider the strange DHA – ALA discussion above – especially given the recent research that allegedly shows that plant-based dietary ALA does not generate meaningful concentrations of EPA and DHA in humans.

    Many of the characteristics of evangelism appear in vegetarian discussions, so maybe “vegetarian” should be classified as a religion, rather than a lifestyle choice.

  24. Jessie 24

    All other arguments aside, you shouldn’t take what you don’t need.

    One doesn’t need meat to survive or be healthy, therefore in this day and age it is both barbaric and wasteful to do so. It is different for people who live in areas where food is scarce where there are no other resources. Animals suffer so terribly to provide things that are unnecessary (as well as a wasteful use of resource) to people.

    In the modern age it’s perfectly easy to eat mostly locally and be vegetarian or vegan. There are a lot of misnomers about regarding what we eat!

    By the way! I don’t know one single sick or depressed vegetarian or vegan who are sick or depressed by their eating choice… and I know about 200. In fact, I know four beautiful, healthy vegan babies right now, coming from amazing vegan families. The people are professional, most of them have degrees or are tertiary educated (read: intelligent) and kind.

    As regards to health, a vegetarian should only need a supplement from time to time just as a meat eater would need, just as a vegan would need. The science proves that no way of eating is particularly superior, you can be healthy in any way. In saying that, less meat is healthier for you so making the switch (for someone who relies a lot on meat) could mean that a vegan diet improves their health.

    All of this rhetoric means that eating meat is merely a choice of conscience, nothing more.

    • Quoth the Raven 24.1

      All other arguments aside, you shouldn’t take what you don’t need.

      You must led a fairly ascetic life then. I myself enjoy greatly those things which I do not need.

  25. Bill 25

    Sweet, Sweet Sue. Does anyone say it yummier?.

  26. Chris Noaro 26

    Hiding beneath the surface of every critic of vegetarianism is a wimpering gutless hypocrite – the kind of person too weak to put restraints on their eating to alleviate the suffering of other creatures; many of whom would never themselves kill the animals they eat but will pay someone else to do it; and in the case of males, the sort of ‘men ‘ probably already suffering the same kind of impotence of the mind and character that meat-eating is known to cause sexually.

    • ieuan 26.1

      Wow your a bundle of laughs aren’t you.

      So much pent up anger for someone so in tune with the ‘suffering of other creatures’.

  27. i’ve been vegan for ten years..vegetarian for twenty before that..

    i know people who have been vegan for 40+ years..

    and lots of other vegans..

    one thing they have in common..

    is glowing good health..

    i also have three vegan dogs..

    one 10 yrs old..her six yr old daughter..

    and another 2 yr old..

    the mother was vegan during the pregnancy..

    these dogs could do centrefolds for ‘dog monthly’..

    their coats are so shiny..you need to wear shades..

    i know lots of other vegan dogs..

    and one thing thay all have in common..

    is glowing good health..

    more here..

    http://whoar.co.nz/?s=vegan

    (someone asked for vegan recipies..?

    there are more there than you can poke a stick at..)

    and to the author..good on you for going vegetarian..

    but you really should try the next step..

    and go vegan..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

  28. this is worth reading..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2009/who-you-callin-vegangelical/

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    [lprent: careful about link-whoring. please ]

  29. Each to their own, hope your feeling healthy.

    I have to disagree with yuor statement that you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat’

    Any one from any political ideology can have any diet they please.

  30. Ditto on the healthy vegans. It is a very common and recurring theme for people who are resisting the idea of veganism to say “I know so many vegans and they are all sick and unhealthy.” Well I would like to know where they all are, because I don’t know any, and as a vegan, I know a lot of vegans.
    The main point, as always, is being missed. If someone has genuine concerns about the health aspect of a vegan diet, there is so much information out there. Any vegan I know would bend over backwards to help anyone who was considering veganism, because we desperately want to end the slaughter of billions of innocent, sentient animals. It is about THEM, not us. I suggest to anyone that they try veganism. They will be very pleasantly surprised at the outcome. If you care, if you think causing unnecessary pain suffering and death on animals is wrong (and most of us do) then the way to address that issue is to go vegan, and veganism is so incredibly easy, especially now more than ever. You just have to educate yourself on what a balanced vegan diet is, and just do it. It’s so easy!
    To paraphrase something that was written by a really great advocate for veganism I know: “…if you have any desire to pursue the vegan lifestyle or philosophy, and it is… health issues that prohibit you from doing this…[then any number of incredible resources, vegans, books, vegan doctors, etc etc etc, would be more than happy to help]…If you have no interest in veganism, and would prefer to continue eating animal products, then pointing to…health issues as the reason is misleading….”

    I would like to add, without in any way meaning any offense or judgment, but just stating reality in fact, that vegetarianism in our culture is omnivorism. There are omissions of some animal products, usually cows and sheep and pigs flesh, but vegetarianism in NZ still involves consuming many other animal products, even flesh sometimes (of fish and/or chicken), and overwhelmingly includes dairy products which is one of the most barbarically cruel use of non-humans there is. I have to say veganism, because vegetarianism as we know it in our culture is doing nothing significant to alleviate the suffering and slaughter of animals, help the environment or address the fundamental wrongness of our species’ use of all living sentient beings as our chattel property, slaves, renewable resources, objects of sport, entertainment, unconsenting biomedical subjects etc.

    You can call me self righteous, holier than thou, radical, I have heard them all, but too bad. It is not about me, it is about them. I don’t enjoy abuse, but name calling is nothing compared to what a dairy cow and her calf go through, just to name one of millions of horrific examples, and if we don’t speak out for them, who will? Good on everyone for coming on here and being a voice for the animals, and for anyone who is skeptical yet interested, please, don’t take our word for it! Go out there with an open mind and critical thinking and examine all the information, on the environment, diet, ecology and most of all, peace and non violence. Look to your own heart and mind for the answer, don’t believe the hype, go out there and find out for yourselves. Ask yourself what you prefer: horrific violence, torture and death to billions of animals a year, or peace, kindness, and justice. I think true strength and honour is not using your power to cause harm, true nobility is mercy and kindness, and it takes a real man or woman to be benevolent and merciful, that is strength, especially to go against the status quo and stand up to all the violence and speak out against it. Vegans are in no way weak, no way.

  31. i think you are missing the point here brett…

    that point being that ignoring the realities of meat consumption..

    just makes lies of any ‘professed-progressive/greenie-ideals’

    it is the huge elephant in their rooms..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

  32. “..[lprent: careful about link-whoring. please ]..”

    could i clarify your policies/definitions of ‘link-whoring’..?

    in a thread about not eating animals..

    i linked readers to 1)..the ‘vegan stuff’ category on the news aggregator site i run..

    where there are 900+ stories/links on that very subject/topic..

    including bulk vegan recipies..(which an earlier commentor asked about..)

    i also posted what i think is one of the most cogent arguments for this cause/school of thought i have read..

    is this ‘link-whoring’..?

    and anyway..(just stepping back for a larger look)..what exactly is the problem with helping/promoting other members of the new media..?

    especially..but not particularly..

    ..when they are sorta marching in the same direction as yourselves..?

    and i shall now make good on those words..by going to whoar..

    and linking to the excellent vid on the other thread..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    • lprent 32.1

      Yep, that is why it didn’t simply get booted. It at least had the topic in the url.

      However readers on this site would have had to have read the link to find out why you thought it was important. If you’re going to put links in, then you should say on your comment why people should look at the link, not just say something like “this is interesting” and put a link in. That is a standard technique of the spambots who want people to click through. It raises my alarm bells.

      If you’d said “these are my views on veganism and why I think ….” then I wouldn’t be concerned. You’d have given information to the local users why you felt it was a good link to view.

  33. Spider_Pig 33

    “Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demiglace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food.” – A. Bourdain.

    Never truer words spoken.

  34. sir topham hat 34

    as a strict vegetarian (mostly vegan) i have to admit i found the last line a little foolish. I have a strong (possibly irrational?) fear of being overly intense about the whole business – and sometimes feel overly rabid vegetarians put us all down a little. Though a strong approach makes you popular with the already converted, it makes everyone else irritated and occasionally insecure. I don’t really feel the health issues are particularly relevant, i dont want to rant or imply that i am the most amazingly wonderful person in existence, but i dont find it a problem. after 16 years of vegetarianism, my brain is just fine thank you. (no worse than before anyway!) i’m also fairly fit and pretty much never sick. (i dont even try that hard!). Sorry if this in the ‘crazy, self righteous vegan’ category – but i felt as a person of experience (in this matter alone i might add!) i might as well say something.

    p.s. if meat is your priority in life then obviously vegetarianism isn’t for you! (in response to the ‘all meat is wondrous and life without it would be unimaginably dull’ post.

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    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    2 weeks ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago