Wtf?

Written By: - Date published: 6:02 pm, April 17th, 2009 - 30 comments
Categories: national/act government - Tags:

A reader writes:

$30 million for an expo pavillion? Sounds a bit steep. Why, John Key could could build you a cycleway 60% of the length of New Zealand for that price.

Seriously though, Key’s going to spend 50% more on a pavillion than he’s prepared to spend on the 9-day fortnight scheme to save Kiwis’ jobs? Wtf?

30 comments on “Wtf?”

  1. BLiP 1

    Corporate welfare – unless those companies being show cased are going to be paying for it . . . rotflmao

  2. infused 2

    It may actually prove to be quite a good exercise, epically for exporters. China is the market to be in at the moment. Or it could fail. The cycle way was a fail from the beginning anyway. This seems like a more logical choice to spend cash on.

    Being a small company myself I’m about to localize an app that will hopefully penetrate the Chinese market.

    “Both Zespri and Solid Energy said they would be spending money on developing New Zealand’s exhibition to help draw the attention of the millions of visitors expected to visit the expo.

    New Zealand’s exports to China have been booming since the two countries signed a trade deal a year ago despite the global economic recession.”

    You must admit, this is a much logical.

    • aj 2.1

      My question – what is more important than saving jobs.
      Well, nothing is, unless you never held a genuine intention to look after workers in the first place.

      • infused 2.1.1

        Well if you’re a business owner and your business is going out of business, sometimes you have to let go of staff… that’s just how it is. The one thing I want more than anything at the moment is staff, I just don’t have the cash.

        I think this exercise will create jobs. The world is changing. Jobs are going to be lost, new jobs are going to be created. In my view the world is in a shift. It may not be economical to run certian businesses in New Zealand anymore. That’s just how it is. But at the same time, others will be created in their place.

    • red 2.2

      What people like infused don’t get is that it’s not about having a pavillion or not, it’s about value for money. Key is spending five times more on this expo than we spent on the last one.

      Are you guys confident that we’re getting value for our taxpayer dollar out of that? Especially when there are things we could be spending that money on instead that would really make an impact by creating jobs and stopping more and more people going on the dole.

  3. My question – what is more important than saving jobs.

    My answer – creating new jobs.

    My question – where should those jobs be created? In poor countries where they will make a real difference or in obese countries?

    • BLiP 3.1

      Petrol Head:

      . . . My question – where should those jobs be created? In poor countries where they will make a real difference we can pay shit wages and trash the environment . . .

  4. aj 4

    Jobs created by cycleway = 0

  5. SPC 5

    FFS – Worldwide baby boomers have the cash and they don’t bungy jump in their 50″s and 60’s – they do try and remain active and so they do ride bikes. Thus developing tourism in this area will both sustain and create more jobs.

    As with the R and D tax incentives, Fast Forward, the cycle way is a sensible investment. Those blocking these things are undermining the future productivity of our economy. Promoting exports in a growth market is OK too – there is no wrong time for such investment.

  6. Jobs created by cycleway = 1

    But he’s a consultant and he wasn’t unemployed. Same old story of governments creating jobs for their mates.

  7. mike 7

    “Jobs created by cycleway = 0”

    Jobs created by Labour = around 30,000 bureaucrats that suck taxes from hardworking NZers. WTF?

  8. aj 8

    SPC, please look at the demographics of cycle tourists. The vast majority are not boomers.
    I will happily wait for history to prove you wrong.

    Mike, assuming those 30,000 could be dispensed with right now, without affecting services, tell us how much our taxes would fall.
    3,2, 1 cents per dollar or less?

    • mike 8.1

      Thanks for the typical socialist reponse – 30’000+ unproductive positions is fine as our high taxes can accomodate it

  9. aj 9

    Mike, thank you for not adressing my question at all. The right have a drum to beat, lets not bother with numbers and facts.

    I repeat – if they are indeed unproductive, tell me the number in cents per dollar of tax each taxpayer will save.

  10. aj,

    “assuming those 30,000 could be dispensed with right now, without affecting services”
    Since the extra public servants have been added without affecting affecting critical services such as health, education and conservation in any positive way that actually does seem to be a reasonable assumption to make.

    But, according to Tanes recent post on the increase in the number of public servants there are only an additional 15,000.

    Assuming, for simplicity, the average pay for public servants is $40,000 then multiplying that by 15,000 gives $ 600,000,000 divided by 3,000,000 taxpayers = $200 = $4 per week (in round numbers), half the amount that Labour added with their petrol tax increases and therefore about the same amount the National is proposing to add with their petrol tax increases.

    The real problem with the 50% increase in public servants, as I see it, is that they’ haven’t been added ‘at the coal face’ where there is real value and need, especially in community health services.

    • The Baron 10.1

      Well, I’ll at least thank you for those numbers, Kevyn.

      Four dollars isn’t a lot to get worked up about, but in a cumulative sense could be a nice contribution.

      Would anyone like to try substantiate what services we would actually lose as the opportunity cost for that $4? Again, geninuely curious in the facts, rather than the spin.

      • aj 10.1.1

        Lets say, Kevyn has his way, 30,000 civil services jobs are junked, saving each taxpayer $3.85 a week.
        Kevyn we need to indentify exactly where these numbers are going to come from, if any services are cut or privatised and the cost to the taxpayer {for seeking such services elswhere} becomes greater than $3..86 then the taxpayer is not ahead.

      • Maynard J 10.1.2

        You’d have a stripped down government with no ability to create, examine implications of, and implement policy. So basically what we’re doing now, we’d be doing in 2020, 2050 and so on, until we decided to give that $4 back and get some progress.

        Left or Right, whether you like ‘The Government’ in a broader sense or not, it’s probably an idea to realise that we will always have one, and the decision is whether we want an effectual one, or a worthless bureaucracy.

        As I see it, having the bloody thing costs a hell of a lot – why not pay that little extra to make it good? Why have a car if you only buy petrol for 1.7km a week and have to walk the rest?

        My answer so far isn’t quite what you’re after, so some examples (some of which I’m sure you’d rather we were without, but anyway): Kiwisaver, the digitisation of the public service, Working for Families, Families Commission, adequate RMA, the Supreme Court, DOC’s structures collapsing less frequently, the ability of Transit NZ to identify roads that need upgrading as opposed to some polli’s pet project; these are the types of things that we’d have lost for that $4.

        (Edit-reply to ze Baron)

    • Kevin Welsh 10.2

      What happened to the other 1.2 million New Zealanders?

      • BLiP 10.2.1

        They have no economic value and, thus, are of no concern to the right.

        • jerry 10.2.1.1

          Quite right even though their parents, children ,partners may make up a portion of those 1.2 million clearly they have no concern about them.

          Oh but that’s right weren’t your the chap who came up with the obvious answer that the right are all practising certain sexual practices to prevent children being born so they clearly would have no children to worry about……what a sad little person webpersona you appear to be.

          • BLiP 10.2.1.1.1

            The sadness lies with you in that you distort the jocular to give impetus to insult.

            Result!

      • Kevyn Miller 10.2.2

        The don’t pay taxes so they don’t directly receive tax cuts. Even if the taxcuts had delivered $4 to each taxpayer by the time you divide that by the number of children and other dependents various taxpayers are supporting the tax cuts end up being of miniscule benefit to children. For that reason Dunne’s WfF was a much more sensible way to distribute tax ‘cuts’.

  11. infused 11

    Well that went way off track. I was talking about creating jobs here. Exporting… not creating jobs in China ffs.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      In theory, a FTA does both – in theory.

      • infused 11.1.1

        Yes, but a “trade show”, show casing New Zealand businesses could also help a lot more, no?

        Seriously, China is going to be huge for New Zealand.

        • wren 11.1.1.1

          no-one’s saying don’t have a pavillion or don’t trade with china. the question is whether $30 million is value for money. do you think it is? why?

          • infused 11.1.1.1.1

            I can’t really say till theres more detail about it I guess, unless you can point me in the right direction?

  12. aj 12

    As I said

    Jobs created by cycleway = O

  13. Whacky Lefty 13

    http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/research/toll.html

    So why are cyclist required to wear helmets when Pedestrians & Drivers aren’t?

    BEC 2006 Predicting Accident Rates for Cyclists and Pedestrians
    http://www.ltsa.govtnz/research/reports/289.pdf

    Confirms walking is more dangerous than cycling, especially as the distance increases.

    2001
    11.4% of road deaths were pedestrians
    2.2% of road deaths were cyclists

    2002
    30% of pedestrians hurt themselves when walking
    24% of cyclists hurt themselves when walking
    (I’m not convinced these groups are mutually exclusive)

    5% of pedestrian hurt themselves while drunk
    2% of cyclists hurt themselves while drunk
    (I draw no conclusions here)

    December is the worst month for cyclist to get hurt
    March is the worst month for pedestrians
    (Not a mutually exclusive group I’m sure)

    Tuesday is the worst day for cycle accidents and Sunday the safest
    The opposite applies to pedestrians.
    (There can be no doubt left that if you can’t stand on your own two feet you probbably can’t cycle very well either).

    Happy to accept I’m the only one who can find Stats even the slightest bit funny.

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  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

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