Open mike 06/09/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:37 am, September 6th, 2014 - 266 comments
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266 comments on “Open mike 06/09/2014 ”

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  1. Cancerman 1
    6 September 2014 at 7:19 am

    Pretty good article from John Armstrong in this morning Herald. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2014/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503581&objectid=11319892

      • karol 1.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 7:50 am

        Ah….. the landowners, doing their best to hoard their wealth, and stop any government make a more fair society; a fair society where no people are struggling to survive.

        • aerobubble 1.1.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 9:38 am

          John Key gave a tax cut to the wealthiest, that at the lower end was neutral, a pivot point if you will, the higher the income the higher the windfall. Now Key is suggesting another tax cut, yet nobody is asking is that doubled down with a GST rise? No. That would require a media with a zealous regard for its own integrity.

          The more we reward rent seekers the more they want, and who pays? Lower and middle income earners. When they awake National are history as party.

      • anker 1.1.2
        6 September 2014 at 10:53 am

        http://www.elections.org.nz/voters/get-ready-enrol-and-vote/enrol-and-vote-overseas

        Lets prove these bastards wrong…………………if you haven’t done it already, post this link to every friend, foe or loved one overseas who is a progressive voter

      • anker 1.1.3
        6 September 2014 at 11:06 am

        Cnr Joe @ 1.1 Yes good Old Armstrong eh? What a commentator. I would really base all my political views on what he says.

        Hey……….that article re Cunliffe should resign……………….letter Dong Liu………..Isn’t that all part of the Slatter smear machine. Be afraid NZ Herald journalists. Be very afraid. Wait for the Royal Commission of enquiry. You might sweep it under the carpet but there are significant numbers of us who want forget.

    • ianmac 1.2
      6 September 2014 at 7:51 am

      Armstrong and Key certainly made a meal of this.
      Wonder why no meal for Parata getting so wrong over her saying often that she had increased teacher numbers by 15% but really it is less than 6%?
      Or Keys housing announcement and his example of a $500,000 house being impossible for any one to buy?
      Or his being $100,000,000 out on his housing budget. http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2014/09/nationals-housing-numbers-dont-add-up.html
      So much for Armstong bias. Huh

    • Saarbo 1.3
      6 September 2014 at 7:52 am

      Articles like this clearly show why Dirty Politics is not impacting the Polls, National Party friendly media are fighting their fight and doing a very good job. Well done John Armstrong, good work on the PR for National but don’t call yourself a journalist.

      Dirty lying dishonest politician stories versus a politician not being able to recall a detail in a complex tax policy…um, which story would a half decent journo work on?

      • Ant 1.3.1
        6 September 2014 at 8:47 am

        The media has been death riding Cunliffe non-stop (with a lot of help from the PMs office). If Hager’s book won’t make them realise they’ve lost the plot, nothing will.

        TBH I can’t see National halting what looks to be a plum strategy, they will just have better comms security next time. And judging by how the media are so quick to fall back into their old place as “repeaters”, I doubt we can hold out much hope for them either.

      • Olwyn 1.3.2
        6 September 2014 at 9:13 am

        Trotter on this sort of thing, from a global perspective:

        http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/05/by-other-means-bringing-down-a-government-or-keeping-one-in-power-no-longer-requires-tanks/

        I have no idea of how this election will go. People have become more polarised since the last one. Those outside the comfortable bubble are angrier, while the government’s PR machine is operating with greater urgency. I do not write off our chances, despite the polls, but if we win I will not be at all surprised by claims that the election has been “stolen,” accompanied by calls for a new election.

    • Paul 1.4
      6 September 2014 at 8:04 am

      Nicky Hager said a lot of journalists asked if there was stuff on them in Slater’s files.
      When you read an article like this by Armstrong, it makes me wonder what the dirty politics brigade have on some journalists.

      • disturbed 1.4.1
        6 September 2014 at 5:10 pm

        A lot you can bet, as they are the link to control the media, so we know why they are so spooky now eh!

        Cant imagine they will print stuff on them though yet, maybe after the royal commission inquest if we ever could be lucky enough to get justice served to have one.

  2. karol 2
    6 September 2014 at 7:48 am

    Could John Key sound any more like a petulant school boy? And one who hasn’t managed to develop any moral or ethical values? Not interested: don’t care; ‘grow up’.

    A prime minister, who cares little for the interests of the country. Faced with a wealth of evidence of the corruption and covert, undemocratic manipulations and malevolent black ops of his party and their allies…… he goes shopping, and won’t talk matters of substance.

    What are the Nat’s policies for the future? The nasty Nat party exposed, and he just smiles and waves on.

    • CnrJoe 2.1
      6 September 2014 at 7:53 am

      Ha! Yesterday Vance tweeted apic of Paratas fingernails admiring them – I called it minister porn

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2
      6 September 2014 at 8:18 am

      Chances are our PM would have had a hand in planning the corrupt black ops.

      • David H 2.2.1
        6 September 2014 at 8:48 am

        Of that I have no doubt, but even if you proved it with pictures and a filmed confession, the Sheeple just will plod happily off to the meatworks.

  3. Raa 3
    6 September 2014 at 7:52 am

    John Armstrong insults the intelligence of the average voter in his assumption that they will be swayed by sophistry and dedication to fact-checking.

    More broadly though, he may be right ..

    • Raa 3.1
      6 September 2014 at 10:55 am

      brian gaynor on hotchin and slater

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11319837

      Mark Hotchin issued defamation proceedings over opinions expressed in this column.
      Details of what purports to be the contents of a leaked email from blogger Cameron Slater to Mark Hotchin and PR man Carrick Graham, dated October 5, 2011, particularly disturb me.

      According to these reports Slater wrote that Justice Minister Judith Collins was “gunning for” Serious Fraud Office boss Adam Feeley. The email, and subsequent revelations, seemed to me to indicate that parties aligned with Hotchin decided, or were advised, that the best way to defend his role in the Hanover Finance debacle was to attack his critics. These appear to include Financial Markets Authority boss Sean Hughes and Feeley.

      If it is true, then the leaked October 2011 email also has relevance to this column because a few months earlier Hotchin lodged a defamation claim against the New Zealand Herald and myself for a number of my Weekend Herald opinion columns between November 2008 and March 2011.

      • mickysavage 3.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 9:31 pm

        This is a really fascinating article …

        • karol 3.1.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 9:34 pm

          This is one thing I hadn’t expected before Dirty Politics was published: the level of attacks, intimidation and blackmail aimed at pulling journalists into line. This must have had a long term corrosive impact on our MSM.

  4. phillip ure 4
    6 September 2014 at 8:01 am

    (this is about all that is wrong with the interviewing styles of gower et.al…

    ..i have also had my five cents worth on the subject..

    ..and those wanting that can go here..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/newsnight-editor-says-end-%E2%80%98mexican-stand-off%E2%80%99-in-political-interviews-ed-cd-someone-send-this-one-to-patrick-gower-and-most-of-the-rest-of-the-interviewing-section-of-the-p/

    (excerpt:..)

    “….i am so tired of the gotcha!-style interviews of politicians..

    ..(as practised by gower et.al..)

    ..whose idea of an interview is to go in there with it already scripted..and starring them….”

    ..and those who would rather not..

    ..can go directly to the source..

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/sep/05/ian-katz-newsnight-political-interview-boring-change

    ..either way..it should be read by those who should/need to read it..

  5. Morrissey 5
    6 September 2014 at 8:04 am

    Jim Mora’s snide distortion of Sue Bradford’s comments
    The Panel is as partisan, as dishonest, as anything on NewstalkZB
    Radio NZ National, Friday 5 September 2014
    Jim Mora, Nevil Gibson, Denise L’Estrange-Corbet

    Following Wednesday’s astonishing outbreak of independent thinking and forthright speaking by Dita Di Boni, Radio NZ’s light chat show The Panel is now firmly back on message. Yesterday (Thursday) the guests were the shallow ex-talkback host Barry Corbett and the equally shallow, pretentious newspaper columnist Joe Bennett. Corbett didn’t say anything particularly idiotic yesterday; he left it all to Bennett.

    And Bennett excelled himself. At one point early in the programme, host Jim Mora asked him if he was interested in politics. Bennett paused, then intoned with Olympian disdain: “Uuuuummmmmm, n-n-n-n-nnot really.” Unfortunately, as with similarly ill informed media opinionizers (Mike Hosking, Larry “Lackwit” Williams, Kerre Woodham) this lack of interest and lack of knowledge has not stopped Bennett from broadcasting his opinions. Hilariously, he delivered the following bizarre pronouncement on the bumbling, stumbling, thuggish ACT leader Jamie “I might be ignorant” Whyte: “I’ve read a couple of his books, and he’s a VERY lucid thinker.”

    Apart from the risible guests, yesterday’s show was more sinister than normal; the obligatory scoffing at and dismissal of Nicky Hager’s revelations has now become a witch hunt for “Rawshark”, the person responsible for the leaks of Blubberguts’s rancid, highly embarrassing and incriminating email correspondence. Mora seems to take seriously everything that Blubberguts says on his poisonous site, and has now taken to routinely referring to the “stolen” emails that Hager was sent. According to Mora, there is a possibility that the Facebook correspondence could all have been made up. Well, that’s what Blubberguts says, so there MUST be something to it.

    Today (Friday) the National Party-friendly tone of the programme continued. Mora delivered one of the most sickeningly insincere little homilies since Barack Obama’s windy rhetoric at Mandela’s funeral. Observing that people in Ashburton have been praising the women who died violently in Ashburton. “Ah, this is the other side of what Sue Bradford said earlier in the week, ISN’T it!” he chirped.

    Of course, Sue Bradford did not condemn the women who died. She condemned the vicious government measures that those women and other WINZ staff all over the country are instructed to implement. It takes a particularly stupid person or one who is deliberately engaging in politically motivated mischief to misconstrue her words like Mora did.

    Today (Friday) the guests were, if possible, even more dismal than yesterday’s. One was a former Marxist fanatic turned hard right fanatic, the other one was a particularly glib, nasty and shallow fashion designer. I can’t bear the thought of sitting down and transcribing more than a brief taster of what they said. But the following rants, inspired by Mora’s quoting of a Child Poverty Action Group report, are typical….

    DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: It’s like the TV programme Benefit Street. People who are on the dole, who spend their days SMOKING and DRINKING and GAMBLING and they keep on having CHILDREN. … Maybe someone needs to go in and see where the money is going. We just can’t keep on handing out MONEY! …[continues spluttering indignantly about the poor]

    NEVIL GIBSON: This poll was carried out by the Child Poverty Action Group, so I’m a bit suspicious of it.

    DENISE L’ESTRANGE-CORBET: It comes down to education. Don’t smoke it, don’t drink it, don’t buy Lotto tickets. I don’t believe there IS a shortage of jobs in New Zealand….[et cetera, ad nauseam…]

    ———————————————–

    I sent the following email to the host….

    Why did you misrepresent Sue Bradford’s words?

    Dear Jim,

    You completely misrepresented what Sue Bradford said about the Ashburton shootings. She pointed out, quite correctly, that the staff at WINZ have to carry out government policies which are often cruel and vindictive.

    Why did you infer that she was criticizing the frontline WINZ staff when in fact she was criticizing government policies?

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • CnrJoe 5.1
      6 September 2014 at 8:12 am

      You go you good thing. I’m having to maintain my panel appointment listening because for every Bishop or Womble (Denise LSC ) theres a Findlay or de Boni.
      But yeah, when the stoopid comes out ( DLSC – ‘ the .com should go back to America and fight for his inno…) uuurgh.

      • phillip ure 5.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 8:36 am

        i think l’estrange etc wd have to be the ..(how to word this..?..)…the most unlearned of all the panelists..(and that’s saying something..she has some serious competition..)

        ..and that bishop on with her is like a superstorm of ignorance/prejudices..

        ..and yep..!..mora totally twisted/distorted bradfords’ words/message..

        ..and interesting how none in the mainstream media seem to have anything to say about all the copycat threats..up and down the country..

        ..nothing to see there..eh..?

        ..symptomatic of not very much..?..

        ..and not just confirming what bradford actually said..?

      • North 5.1.2
        6 September 2014 at 1:46 pm

        Denise L’Estrange-Corbett…….demonstrably not a contender in matters cerebral.

    • Dialey 5.2
      6 September 2014 at 8:25 am

      I was shouting at the radio yesterday listening to Denise,”the strange” – why doesn’t she just come out and say what she really means, namely that beneficiaries don’t deserve to live. FFS they have few enough pleasures and she wants to deprive them of their smokes and sex as well! What planet do the privileged elite live on?

      • phillip ure 5.2.1
        6 September 2014 at 8:40 am

        ‘denise’ ..as shown by her own words..has that potent mix of ignorance and arrogance going on..

        ..and all the self-awareness of that flawed-realty she unloads onto listeners…of a rock..

        ..she just keeps on braying them out…

    • Tom Jackson 5.3
      6 September 2014 at 8:31 am

      As if these useless talking donkeys care what we think.

    • Te Reo Putake 5.4
      6 September 2014 at 9:38 am

      Nice work, Moz. The weirdest thing for me was Denise LC talking of being bought up on welfare by a single parent, but apparently learning nothing from the experience. Unintentionally, it was her own mum she was lumping in with the smoking, drinking, gambling, shagging, welfare dependent lifestyle.

    • Marksman33 5.5
      6 September 2014 at 10:13 am

      Good on you Morrissey, I also was appalled at the depths yesterdays panel had plummeted,( although my email was alot more abusive than yours to Dim). In fact it ruined my Friday night. I have had a fucking gutfull of Dim and his holier than thou Fascists that he parades out every day. For Denise L/C to opine that she didn’t believe there was any unemployment in this country is one step too far even for a whiney voiced halfwit as her, she even had the audacity to get a Free plug in for her 25 years celebration food and fashion show at the Langham, all of next month, (only $89 ).
      This has got to stop RNZ, this is my tax money too. I stopped watching TV news years ago, I stopped buying the Herald and my local rightwing rag months ago, so my only source of current affairs is RNZ who I once loved and The Standard ( who I still love 🙂 Now I just want to smash my radio every day.
      Thank God for The Standard, may you live forever.

    • Macro 5.6
      6 September 2014 at 11:59 am

      I never listen to “the panel” anymore it is perhaps the most sickening piece of radio on RNZ. Mora is just too biased and has little comprehension of the issues.

  6. Tracey 6
    6 September 2014 at 8:05 am

    stuff online and herald online at 8am… you wldnt know those organisations won a fight for free press and public interest yesterday

    • karol 6.1
      6 September 2014 at 8:08 am

      Yeah. Thinking the same.

    • yeshe 6.2
      6 September 2014 at 8:13 am

      it’s a devastating absence.

    • karol 6.3
      6 September 2014 at 8:26 am

      And NZ Herald desperately spinning for Craig over Peters. They realise Peters would not necessarily ensure a Nat-led government.

    • yeshe 6.4
      6 September 2014 at 8:32 am

      http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/slater-gets-temporary-injunction-against-hacker-2014090517#disqus_thread

      Comments almost 100% against Key et al.

      Worth a look if only for the new artwork someone has done on a National billboard using Miley Cyrus .. made me smile on this dark morning.

      But this didn’t:

      “Jim-I’d rather a cardboard box in the PM’s chair with proven Labour’s surplus policies than a corporate takeover by John Key and his banker and republican friends doing an Ireland bankruptcy in slow motion!

      2. We will be bankrupt in 3 years like Ireland, that Key helped screw ..our debt will be $135 billion in three years – Christchurch will be a river of dirty money for the banker/insurance industry and the lesser building suppliers like American Peabody and co that see us now as a commodity on wall street..and the TPPA is the legal equivalent of oppression by stealth!”

      Here’s hoping HOS and SST make use of their freedoms tomorrow. Sigh.

    • Rich 6.5
      6 September 2014 at 8:35 am

      I am absolutely not surprised.

    • mickysavage 6.6
      6 September 2014 at 8:38 am

      Yeo thought that too. Speak up media, you won your right to speak because to be allowed to do so is in the public interest.

      • veutoviper 6.6.1
        6 September 2014 at 9:07 am

        I picked up this interesting twitter exchange via Graeme Edgeler’s Twitter feed.

        https://twitter.com/tmurphyNZH/status/507970888726097920

        Participants include Tim Murphy (NZH) and Pete of WO, with the latter claiming that their QC reckons that media cannot publish anything that they have but have not yet published.

        It may be that Fairfax, Herald, Mediaworks are doing further legal checks to ensure that they are watertight before publishing.

        • Ant 6.6.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 9:36 am

          They’re both just planning on releasing it for the Sunday rags. Doubt it has anything to do with caring about that injunction.

          • Tracey 6.6.1.1.1
            6 September 2014 at 11:48 am

            Doesnt explain them not going headline on their win? Herald today would normally trumpet their success on anything…

      • karol 6.6.2
        6 September 2014 at 9:40 am

        The hard copy of the weekend Herald has articles on the Slater emails on page A 18. They are pretty much buried within the tabloid fluff and advertising.

        The top article is a revamping of last night’s online article by Rob Kidd.

        The Weekend Herald version has the headline: “Slater gagging order affects only hacker”, and begins,

        Judge allows media to publish material already in hand.

        Under this is an article that seems to be a new one from David Fisher: “Commission rejects bloggers claims”.

        It is further examination of and investigation into the SFO inquiry about Feeley. The article begins:

        Blogger Cameron Slater claimed on more than one occasion that his friend and former Cabinet minister Judith Collins was out to have the Serious Fraud Office director sacked according to a new email.
        […]
        The new email has Slater claiming to a Herald journalist in 2011 that MNs Collins was trying to widen an enquiry into the former SFO director Adam Feeley

        The article goes onto discuss complications in that the SFO cannot easily find records pertaining to staff, etc from 2011.

        Underneath this is an article by Adam Bennett. It looks like this one from Herald online, midday yesterday.

    • Paul 6.7
      6 September 2014 at 8:59 am

      Look at who owns Fairfax, APN and TV3 and there is your answer,
      Overseas finance and investment companies want Key’s government back as they are prepared to sell us to them.

      • disturbed 6.7.1
        6 September 2014 at 9:58 pm

        Yep we are lambs to the Government for slaughter, wished the average kiwi would see this beforee its to late.

    • karol 6.8
      6 September 2014 at 9:13 am

      Looking at the hard copy of today’s Dom Post. It has an article on the injunction on page 2.

      It looks like this article that went online last night.

      But the headline is: Court injunction plugs Whaledump leak.

      Partly, there may be no new news on it today. But, also, the 3 media oultets may publish new material, but aim to mute it somewhat. eg, the Dom Post aricle being on page 2, while the WINZ killing victims story takes up most of page 1, in a quite sensationalist, tabloidish way: headline: ‘Face to face with the Ashburton gunman’.

      Next to the Whaledump article on page two, is an article by Hamish Rutherford, about Labour saying the Collins enquiry is too narrow.

      The NZ Herald and Stuff may also be aiming to blunt what is yet to come from the Whaledump material, by some very pro-Nats articles preceding it. These are editorial decisions, and not those of the individual journalists who are probably aiming to do their best by the material.

    • cyclonemike 6.9
      6 September 2014 at 12:55 pm

      Give them a break.The data has apparently gone to the two leading MSM investigative reporters in the country. given the leaks landed yesterday I would hope Fisher and Nippert would do a little journalism before putting the stuff into their newspapers and online. Otherwise they’re no better than their “repeater” colleagues.
      Serious journalism takes more than a 10 minute lick at a press release,especially when they’re building a story that could be the most significant of the year.
      And Nippert does write for the Sunday Star Times, first and foremost.

  7. phillip ure 7
    6 September 2014 at 8:21 am

    here’s an idea for labours’ tacticians..

    ..why not wheel out parker again..?

    ..to tell us all again what a brilliant idea/policy it is to raise the pension-age..

    ..that should help drive the polls back up..eh..?

    ..d’yareckon..?

    (but no financial transaction tax on the banksters..eh..?

    ..even tho’ some twenty other oecd countries already have a form of f.t.t…

    ..too hard..!..that one..?..is it..?..don’t want to/can’t afford to offend said banksters..?

    ..are they not already sucking enough in profits out of our economy..?

    ..each and every year..?

    ..couldn’t even work out how to implement that most small of inter-financial institutions-only tax..?

    ..instead..let’s make the workers work to an even older age..

    ..and of course..that policy will be music to the ears of the maori/p.i-vote labour says it is so assiduously courting..eh..?

    ..what with their almost guaranteed shorter life-spans than pakeha..

    ..eh..?

    ..who exactly is it that you are beholden to..?

    ..it sure as hell isn’t to those workers whose working-life-spans you wish to increase..

    ..and this is all based on some future we-can’t-afford-it!-scenario..

    ..a scenario that ignores so many variables..it is just a joke..

    ..just one of these variables..is that at a time when thinkers are wrestling with what to do with workers..with the rise of automation..thinking shortened work-weeks etc..

    ..parker/labour are crying ‘fire..!..fire..!’..to justify this vote-killing policy..

    ..and funny story…!

    ..what just compounds this clusterfuck of an idea/policy/argument..is the ultimate futility of it all..

    ..as the coalition partners labour will be relying upon..should they become the govenment..won’t have a bar of it..

    ..for labour/parker..this is just stupidity piled on top of stupidity..

    ..and post-election..in the wrap-up..

    ..must get some ‘award’ all of its’ own..

    ..’the braindead-policy-award’..?..(as a working title..?..)

    • phillip ure 7.2
      6 September 2014 at 9:55 am

      but credit where credit is due..parker is doing well up against english on the nation..

      ..english isn’t helping his case tho’..

      ..him showing himself up as an idea-free zone..

    • Lanthanide 7.3
      6 September 2014 at 11:29 am

      The retirement age is *going* to be raised sooner or later. It’s inevitable.

      Better to raise it gradually with a lot of forewarning now, than do it in a mad rush later.

      • The Al1en 7.3.1
        6 September 2014 at 11:42 am

        Indeed it will happen, and like fake outrage, the unpopular aspect will be long forgotten in the big scheme of things.

        Maybe pu either has an obsession with DP and is compelled to publicise it, even if it does border on homo erotic s and m.
        Maybe, unlike where he correctly expects the top rate tax earners and banks to pay more to stop poverty, he isn’t prepared to stump up and work a few months to a maximum of 24 in the future to pay for his and others retirements. Maybe he has a trust or a pension plan and doesn’t have to worry about it.
        Or maybe he just looks at it all from the wrong angle. Instead of looking at the perceived negatives, focus on the positives. Instead of getting a piss poor pension aged 65-67, one will still be able to claim jobseekers and associated top ups for an extra couple of years, which shocking as it is for a lot of our old people, is money in the bank.

      • Puddleglum 7.3.2
        6 September 2014 at 8:06 pm

        One of the trends I’ve never heard discussed in the superannuation debate is the historical rate and projections for people 65+ in the workforce.

        This is from a paper titled ‘Demographic projections from Statistics New Zealand: Aims, methods, and results’ from the Stats Department in 2012 (google the title and when you click on the pdf link you get an automatic download):

        “The number of people aged 65+ in the labour force climbed from 25,000 in 1991 to about 130,000 in 2012. Further increases in labour force participation, coupled with more people at older ages, is likely to grow the older segment of the labour force further. It is highly likely that there will be 240,000–500,000 people aged 65+ in 2036, and 280,000–660,000 in 2061 (Figure 35). The largest growth will occur between 2011 and 2031, as the baby boomers move into the 65+ age group (Figure 36).”

        And,

        “Among those aged 65+, 1 in 16 were in the labour force in 1991. It is 1 in 5 in 2012, and is projected to increase to 1 in 3 by the mid-2020s.

        As a result, by 2036, it is expected that between 9 and 15 percent of the labour force will be aged 65+, compared with 3 percent in 2006. By 2061, it is expected that between 10 and 18 percent of the labour force will be aged 65+.

        Within the labour force aged 65+, the number of people aged 80 and over (80+) is also expected to increase significantly. From 8,000 in 2012, it is highly likely that there will be 21,000–64,000 people aged 80+ in the labour force in 2036, and 27,000–96,000 in 2061.

        Among those aged 80+, about 1 percent were in the labour force in 1991. It is 5 percent in 2012, and is projected to increase to 10 percent by the late 2020s.
        Overall, 68 percent of adults (aged 15 years and over) were in the labour force in 2012. The median projection indicates an increase to 69 percent around 2020, then a gradual drop to 67 percent in 2036, and to 65 percent in 2061 (Figure 37). This drop is despite the assumptions of static or increasing LFPRs at most ages. This apparent contradiction is caused by the changing age structure of the population, with more people at the oldest ages where LFPRs are at their lowest.        ”

        So the median projection indicates an overall population labour force participation rate decreasing from 69 percent in 2020 to 65% in 2061.

        Has the increasing labour force participation rate for those 65+ been calculated into the fiscal projections for the superannuation ‘burden’?

        I’ve usually heard people (politicians) simply say that fewer workers will be supporting more people over 65. That seems a bit simplistic given the trend in labour force participation for the over 65s. (Being in the Labour force they will also be paying tax, of course.)

        Have I missed something?

        • karol 7.3.2.1
          6 September 2014 at 8:17 pm

          Also, what counts as “Labour force participation”. I’m over 65 & working, but only for a couple of days a week. Many older people do go onto part time work.

      • Murray Olsen 7.3.3
        7 September 2014 at 1:15 am

        Why is it inevitable? As far as I’m concerned, TINA just means a lack of creativity.

  8. Rich 8
    6 September 2014 at 8:21 am

    Just looking around the UK upper level domain for antics from a certain PM and came across this (my filter bubble allowed it, surprise, surprise).

    https://www.check-business.co.uk/business/01062001/bofaml-investments/

    It’s a Merrill Lynch company, in fact it used to be called Merrill Lynch, one of the main ones in their ‘let’s avoid the taxman and stop anybody from finding out who we are’ game. Closely associated with the Bank of America (ie. B(ank)ofAm(erica)L). 12 month profit (well loss actually) -26k. Capital something like 113 million dollars (which considering how high up in the Bank of America tree this company is seems quite low to me). Credit worthiness pretty low. So effectively tax dodging, investigative dodging one of the biggest banks in the world, but if they were a customer instead of a (the?) banker then they wouldn’t be able to raise a loan. John Key was a director of this company for 3 years in the late 90s.

    • tc 8.1
      6 September 2014 at 8:39 am

      Yes but JK has left all that behind to take a more powerful position where he can ensure his banking mates get a decent slice of this country.

      Same motives and outcomes achieved whilst getting treated to protective services, air force transport, royal weddings, world cups, antarctica etc.

      As far as JK is concerned its thanks nz the scrapbook is nearly full and the bucket list much reduced just need to sort the knighthood before I leave the juristriction.

    • alwyn 8.2
      6 September 2014 at 9:41 am

      Do you have a link to this claim that John Key was a director of Merrill Lynch?
      He certainly worked for them in a managerial role but I haven’t seen any evidence of him being a director of the company. The source of your claim, please.

      • Rich 8.2.1
        6 September 2014 at 10:01 am

        It’s on the site that I linked;

        https://www.check-business.co.uk/business/01062001/bofaml-investments/#anchor-people

        Just choose ‘Previous Directors’ in the drop down menu which probably now shows ‘Current Directors’. He’s between Alan Stern and John Charles Cooper.

        https://www.check-business.co.uk/director/53719380002/john-philip-key

        Bofaml Investments was called Merrill Lynch when Key was a director. It is still Merrill Lynch of course although Merrill Lynch is effectively a Bank of America proxy (as reflected in the new name).

        You can confirm Key’s directorship via Companies House in the UK in all likelihood.

        • Rich 8.2.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 10:13 am

          Akshully it looks kind of interesting that they changed their name (from Merrill Lynch to MLIB) about 10 days after Key became Prime Minister does it not?

        • alwyn 8.2.1.2
          6 September 2014 at 5:17 pm

          You aren’t trying to be serious are you?
          The company you link to isn’t Merrill Lynch. It is a fairly small organisation registered in London, whereas Merrill Lynch, the group, is (or was) a very large organisation registered in the US. The company you have found is at best the subsidiary of a subsidiary of a subsidiary of a subsidiary of Merrill Lynch.
          To say that someone being a director of such a company is a director of the whole organisation, ie Merrill Lynch is silly but it appears to be what you think.
          It is about on a par with saying that a director of Fletcher Construction (Solomon Islands) Limited is a director of Fletcher Building Limited. Well it isn’t that way and the people concerned aren’t.

          • Rich 8.2.1.2.1
            6 September 2014 at 7:33 pm

            Well singing from the same song sheet as nadis I see. And making the same mistake in suggesting that the US company is allowed to register itself in the UK. No it’s not, Merrill Lynch in the UK has always been a UK registered company. Merrill Lynch in Switzerland is a Swiss company. Merrill Lynch in New Zealand is a NZ company.

            If Merrill Lynch goes broke in the US that will not effect the UK Merrill Lynch.

            I have never said that John Key was a director of the US Merrill Lynch.

            I seem to have lit a fire. I’m still not sure how or why it’s still burning.

          • Rich 8.2.1.2.2
            7 September 2014 at 2:12 am

            Here’s the proof that you don’t want;

            http://www.isda.org/protocol/pdf/mlibl.pdf

            Notice the registration number 1062001, it’s the same Company registration number as the company that John Phillip Key (New Zealander) was a director of.

            As you can see it was called Merrill Lynch International Bank in 2000. That was the main Merrill Lynch company in the UK at the time.

      • yeshe 8.2.2
        6 September 2014 at 10:34 am

        alwyn — is that u bronagh ?

      • Tracey 8.2.3
        6 September 2014 at 11:51 am

        Did you read it?

        Has anyone else noticed that reading and comprehension seem to be a weakness amongst those who support Key, and Key himself

        • alwyn 8.2.3.1
          6 September 2014 at 5:24 pm

          Have a look at my comment above Tracey regarding the difference between small companies and the directors of the group of which the small company is a part.
          You claimed yesterday, by the way, that Rupert Murdoch owned 30% of APN. I asked that you provide a link to the source of the claim.
          You haven’t answered yet. Dis you have trouble reading the request or did you fail to comprehend what I said? Do you have a weakness in such things?

          • Rich 8.2.3.1.1
            6 September 2014 at 9:43 pm

            Dis – french? (say, talk)

            Or some other language?

            • alwyn 8.2.3.1.1.1
              7 September 2014 at 2:24 pm

              Wow, you’ve spotted a typo. Aren’t you the clever one?
              Now are you dissing me junior?
              Tracey hasn’t seem the comment though or I’m sure she would have explained by now how she decided that Rupert Murdoch was a major owner of APN and therefore the NZ Herald.

    • nadis 8.3
      6 September 2014 at 2:43 pm

      I wouldnt get excited. What you are looking at is just a special purpose vehicle company. These are typically used for one off transactions and reused again and again. And names change all the time. Their might be a tax reason, or just a need to hold assets in a discrete vehicle, but there’s nothing conspiratorial here. I worked for an investment bank, my area maintained upwards of a hundred separate companies which were used to put together specific transactions. All had names that were either completely generic, i.e. “Sabre 2008 Ltd” or were a play on either our banks name or the customers name. At one time I was a director (unpaid) of about 30 companies.

      The real Merrill Lynch or actually Merrill Lynch Fenner Pierce and Smith was a New York incorporated company listed on the NY stock exchange. So not the same thing.

      • Rich 8.3.1
        6 September 2014 at 5:40 pm

        I didn’t really think there was anything particularly conspiratorial about this other than the normal shenanigans that ‘those at the top who pay no tax’ get up to. I was just pointing out that the director of Merrill Lynch International Bank Limited was at one stage in the late 90s a certain John Phillip Key from New Zealand. And that despite capital (but not assets) over 100 million this company was paying no tax and has a loss that is small enough despite that significant capital to raise suspicions that it is artificial.

        Now if you want to see if what we are talking about is a ‘discrete vehicle’ whatever the hell that is or the actual Merrill Lynch UK version well then this should put you right;

        http://www.casact.org/education/reinsure/2009/handouts/GS-2-Cohen.pdf

        Check the bottom to see the main entity for each country. You will see that the UK entities are Merrill Lynch International Bank Limited (i.e. the entity that John Key was a directer of) and MLPF&S. Also Bofaml Limited as the company is now known has been in business since 1971 or so, so it’s hardly a company along the lines of ‘throw some liabilities in there and liquidate it’ vehicle is it?

        Now there may have been some name changes and movement to different company registrations since (a trivial exercise even for someone as small fry as myself) but the main Merrill Lynch vehicle in the UK had as its director in the late 90s, a certain Mr JP Key. I’m not interested in the US version, I never said that John Key was a director of any American company.

        Please don’t try and pull rank on me again (I was an investment banker), I’m quite capable of figuring out what is going on here.

        Now back to the beginning again, what’s conspiratorial here?

        • yeshe 8.3.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 6:07 pm

          have you seen these pages Rich ? Something else for alwyn to fester about …. hosted by travellev, a well known poster here on TS

          http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/open-letter-to-eugene-bingham-or-would-you-have-voted-for-john-key-if-you-had-known/

          • Rich 8.3.1.1.1
            6 September 2014 at 6:14 pm

            I don’t really think that he is the devil incarnate, yeshe, as that blog seems to think that he is. He’s just playing the game on behalf of somebody else. And being richly rewarded for it. And he’s a bit of pr*&k as well but the main lizard he is not.

            I just want nadis to tell me what is conspiratorial about this. As I didn’t see that on my first post.

            • yeshe 8.3.1.1.1.1
              6 September 2014 at 6:39 pm

              Yes Rich, but playing the game for the lizards does not make you any less despicable than the lizards. He is a proven liar and a crazy danger to NZ as he serves his masters’ avarice.

              As long as you know that story is there and proven … good luck with nadis !

              • Rich …
                6 September 2014 at 7:06 pm

                Yes somehow I don’t think that nadis is going to tell me why it’s conspiratorial.

                I suspect it’s something along the lines of ‘his interest in NZ is more Merrill Lynch than Bryndwr or Remuera’. Which is true enough.

            • disturbed 8.3.1.1.1.2
              6 September 2014 at 9:38 pm

              Hi Rich
              Was this true that JK was planning with Alex Krieger to undermine the NZ dollar and make a reward from Krieger for services, when he was working at NY Merrill Lynch?
              Isn’t that a deliberate attempt to destabilise the financial state of NZ and what is the charge, is it wilful sabotage?

              Bad enough he worked in Australia to fire 500 workers also. He really is a saboteur.
              http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2008/11/10/financial-markets/keys-house

              MARKETS: Shadow banking in the spotlight

              Giles Parkinson10 Nov 2008, 10:54 AM
              Financial Services
              Politics
              Industries
              Global Financial Crisis
              Financial Markets
              Global News
              Economy
              Markets

              John Key is living proof that not all heads of derivatives operations for large US investment banks end up in the dog house. Some get to run their own country.

              Key was elected prime minister of New Zealand last weekend after his National Party achieved a crushing victory over the incumbent Labour government of Helen Clark.

              The timing of his elevation, in the midst of a financial crisis, may be quite prophetic. After all, Key’s rise to prominence in foreign exchange circles came after he struck a rewarding relationship at Bankers Trust with Andy Krieger, a daring New York-based trader who launched a legendary raid against the NZ dollar in 1987.

              Krieger reportedly bet more than the country’s entire money supply against the currency, forcing it down sharply and taking massive profits in what is still described as one of the finest forex plays ever completed.

              Key’s role in this raid is not entirely clear. The timing of his arrival at BT suggests he might not have had a great deal to do with it, but he benefited from Krieger’s continuing interest in the currency, which helped Key lift BT to top of the local currency tables and attract interest from international investment banks.

              New Zealand’s new leader also knows a lot about job losses, having by his own admission earned the reputation of being the “smiling assassin” during his short stint at the Sydney offices of Merrill Lynch in 2001 when he reportedly helped fire some 500 staff.

              He had been through this process before, after Merrills incurred massive losses as a result of the Asian crisis. Key, then head of the bank’s forex operations in London, is credited by former colleagues for his ability to hold a demoralised team together, even while sacking, in his own words “dozens fewer than 100”, a comment that reveals an early talent for political spin.

              Key began his career as an auditor in Christchurch before joining Elders Finance in the mid 1980s as a foreign exchange dealer. Within two years he was the head forex trader at Elders before moving to BT in 1988 and then to Merrill Lynch, where he headed the Asian forex operations from Singapore.

              From there, he quickly rose to become head of Merrills’ global forex operations in London, where he is said to have commanded a multi-million dollar salary, before deciding to turn to politics to pursue his childhood dream of becoming PM. Now that he is there, his take on what many people expect to be a heavy re-regulation of world financial markets should be interesting.

              In an interview for an article jointly authored by London’s Financial Times and New Zealand’s Sunday Star-Times earlier this year, Key admitted a great admiration for Krieger.

              “He was a pioneer, in the sense he was one of the few people in the world who understood the options market before it was really established. He blazed a trail and that gave him a strategic advantage early on.”

              Key also said he did not believe there was a moral issue for the traders who made speculative attacks on currencies, or for the dealing rooms that carry out their orders.

              “I can’t remember whether Andy Krieger was buying or selling, it might have been selling with me, but at the time it would have reflected the economic fundamentals at play in New Zealand. The markets are ultimately too large for any one individual to manipulate.

              “There is much more good gained from having a fully functioning financial market than there ever is from not having that. We provided liquidity, we provided stability.

              “There would be plenty of exporters today who would be cheering from the sidelines if Andy Krieger came in to sell a whole lot of New Zealand dollars. And equally if he was buying it there would be plenty of importers who would be cheering from the rafters. So it’s not as clear-cut as some people might think.”

              • Rich …
                6 September 2014 at 9:53 pm

                Interesting read, disturbed.

              • yeshe …
                6 September 2014 at 10:06 pm

                Disturbed .. if you haven’t, please read the link I posted for Rich above at 8.3.1.1 —

                travellerev takes apart the PR, blustering denials and memory lapses to prove Key had to be there with Krieger at the same they came close to destroying NZ currency and personally must have made millions and millions from it.

                The dates are very clear; including details of why Key was required to fire 500 Merrill employees.

                Read it and weep.

              • Murray Olsen …
                7 September 2014 at 1:42 am

                Key is incapable of seeing anything as a moral issue. He seems to be completely amoral. Ironically, he owes his early success to the first ACT government, which deregulated the finance sector and opened up opportunities for parasites who never felt ethical burdens. Maybe this explains his affection for ACT?

      • Rich 8.3.2
        7 September 2014 at 2:17 am

        And for you too little nadis (investment banker).

        Here’s the proof that you don’t want;

        http://www.isda.org/protocol/pdf/mlibl.pdf

        Notice the registration number 1062001, it’s the same Company registration number as the company that John Phillip Key (New Zealander) was a director of.

        As you can see it was called Merrill Lynch International Bank in 2000. That was the main Merrill Lynch company in the UK at the time.

        Now, re your reference to conspiratorial, what is conspiratorial? What’s the theory (or theories) that you are criticising?

  9. kiwigunner 9
    6 September 2014 at 8:45 am

    The polls. Has anyone thought of standing outside the supermarket today and polling 1000 people on their voting intention? Probably take 1-2 hours. Be very interesting to see if that type of poll mirrors mainstream ones – especially in particular areas. I’d do it if there were others who would too in areas different to mine.

    • phillip ure 9.1
      6 September 2014 at 8:50 am

      you could do what campbell-live did..

      ..set up a table..with jars..marbles/whatever…

      ..so passers-bye can vote with their marbles/whatever..

      ..(far more user-friendly that accosting passers-bye..while wielding a clip-board..and demanding to know their voting intentions..)

  10. Harry Holland 10
    6 September 2014 at 8:50 am

    Noticed this amongst all the “National has already won” shallow journalism on the stuff website.

    “The undecided vote remained steady at 13 per cent, which is higher than in some other polls. Benson said if Ipsos included those who said they were undecided, but when pressed were leaning towards a particular party, that number dropped to about 7 per cent and saw National’s vote come in about 2 percentage points lower.”

    The undecideds are clearly mostly trying to decide which opposition party to vote for. That suggests that factoring in all of the undecideds, National would be showing about 4% lower in the polls.

    Despite the importance of this, all of the headlines and graphs are all about ‘decided’ voters and most reports barely mention the undecided. The high undecided figure highlights the inappropriateness of the “All over bar the shouting” message coming from much of the MSM which could also be self-fulfilling if it helps demoralize undecided voters into staying at home.

  11. satty 11
    6 September 2014 at 8:51 am

    On a little bit more positive note. The advance voting statistics show significantly higher numbers in early votes compared to earlier general elections:
    http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/advance-voting-statistics

    • Bearded Git 11.1
      6 September 2014 at 10:00 am

      I’ve already voted, as have David Cunliffe and Metiria Turei. A good turnout favours the Left so encourage people to vote ASAP. There are hopeful signs for the Left in the high Advance Voting.

      The BEST WAY TO GET RID OF KEY (putting aside partisan constituency feelings) is:

      Green Party Supporters-Party Vote Green
      Labour Party Supporters-Party Vote Labour
      Internet-Mana Supporters-Party Vote Internet-Mana (IMP)

      TE TAI TOKERAU Constituency
      Green, Labour and IMP supporters Candidate Vote IMP-Hone Harawira

      EPSOM Constituency
      Green, Labour and IMP supporters Candidate Vote National-Paul Goldsmith

      EAST COAST BAYS Constituency
      Green, Labour and IMP supporters Candidate Vote National-Murray McCully

      OHARIU Constituency
      Green, Labour and IMP supporters Candidate Vote Labour-Virginia Andersen

      WAIARIKI Constituency
      Green, Labour and IMP supporters Candidate Vote IMP-Annette Sykes

      TE TAI HAUAURU Constituency
      Green, Labour and IMP supporters Candidate Vote Labour-Adrian Rurawhe

      If you don’t vote like this in these constituencies YOU ARE EFFECTIVELY VOTING FOR JOHN KEY.

      • David H 11.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 11:16 am

        But first you have to make up your mind. And here in the Otaki exectorate I have seen 1 count it 1 Labour bill board, and a few of NatKey/Guy ones and thats it.

        It’s like no one gives a rats arse up here..

        And the only stuff that’s been stuffed in my Mail box I put return to Sender, back to the Nats and Nathan Guy.

        So no door knockers.
        And buggers all hordings.
        No Street meetings.
        No Mailbox policy drops.
        No politicians,

        Nice to be in an such an important electorate /sarc

    • Ergo Robertina 11.2
      6 September 2014 at 6:00 pm

      Thanks for the link, satty; amazing. Especially important for a September election given the likelihood of unsettled weather. I voted early and did so because of the push from the Greens (wouldn’t have thought to otherwise).

  13. exitlane 13
    6 September 2014 at 9:00 am

    Labour released their conservation policy last week. It contains a firm pledge to extend no mining protection under Schedule 4 to all conservation land between Thames and the Kaimai rail tunnel. A huge swath of high value DOC estate.

    see this map
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31214727/Mining/Ecological%20Districts%20Map.JPG

    Presently only conservation land north of Thames on the Coromandel has Schedule 4 protection from mining.

    Remember when 40,000 people marched up Queen Street and many more protested against National’s plans to take land OUT of Schedule 4?

    Great policy like this from Labour has been buried under a steaming pile of dirty politics.

    • miravox 13.1
      6 September 2014 at 6:23 pm

      Thanks exitlane, great to see better legal protection of the conservation estate. Hopefully the msm will realise some parties do have quite important policy releases any day now…

  14. disturbed 14
    6 September 2014 at 9:02 am

    NZ polls are manipulated.

    Corruption case to answer and a police investigation must be ordered by the opposition, here are some facts.

    A simple search last night of “Polls can be manipulated” – Google
    found about 1,400,000 results.
    Below leaves us all now with the knowledge of what in New Zealand is actually going on, it is more corruption of our MSM conducting manipulated polling results, and opposition now must call this as it is, corruption of the MSM and manipulation of all polls.

    We were contacted Friday 22nd of August at 4pm by Herald Digipoll by a lady who first said we are conducting a poll and could we participate?
    We said yes, then she said my supervisor is listening in, is that o/k?

    I hesitated but agreed and she went through a ten minute questioning, and then abruptly said we don’t need your input thanks, and hung up!

    This left us so disturbed we searched the web and found all 1.4 million cases of poll manipulations globally on Goggle, which include what is called “selective polling”

    We believe we were a victim of a Herald Digipoll selective polling strategy.

    NZ pols are corrupted, is this a crime?

    This is just one case of the 1.4 million sites on Goggle in India which may show what is happening here in NZ.
    quote;

    New Delhi: Public opinion gathered by leading opinion poll agencies is often tweaked to give misleading results, Operation Prime Minister, a sting operation by a private news network, News Express, has revealed Tuesday. Well-known faces from leading opinion poll agencies have been caught on hidden camera agreeing to such malpractices.

    Operation Prime Minister shows how opinion polls are conducted and manipulated at the instance of political parties, their results traded to show a particular party in a favourable position, for a price. Presenting snippets from the sting operation at a press conference, Editor-in-chief of News Express, Vinod Kapri said, “Our motivation behind conducting the sting operation was a letter written by the Election Commission of India to all regional and national parties inviting their views on the publication of opinion polls.

    We wanted to investigate the concerns of the Commission.” In its letter dated 4 Oct, 2013, the Election Commission had said, “The Commission has been suggesting to the government that there should be a similar prohibition or restriction on opinion polls also as there could be several manipulated opinion polls which could impact the voting pattern.”

    Another motivation behind the sting operation was the mushrooming of opinion polls. “There used to be one or two opinion polls every election. But now, one sees an opinion poll almost every week. Which leads us to the question- how is the data generated so quickly and processed,” said Kapri.

    “Operation Prime Minister has exposed eleven opinion poll agencies, whose surveys are published in leading newspapers and magazines besides being broadcast by leading news channels”, it was claimed in the sting opertaion.

    It demonstrates how the 810 million voters of our country are duped into believing trends or waves that are manipulated. – See more at:

    “Opinion polls seem to have become the latest weapon in the poll campaign.

    For a price, the prediction of seats tally can be changed to suit the interests of political parties.

    The agencies have no qualms accepting even black money for this purpose”,

    News Express claimed. The influence of opinion poll agencies goes beyond mere opinion polls. In some cases, the poll agencies have claimed they can even prop up dummy candidates in the constituencies where the rival candidate is on a strong wicket.

    It has also been claimed that some leading editors are hand in glove with these poll agencies.

    This is just a few of the 1.4 million sites on Goggle. – See more at:

    http://www.ummid.com/news/2014/February/26.02.2014/opinion-poll-companies-exposed.html#sthash.wqSJ2ylu.dpuf

    http://www.sciences360.com/index.php/statistics-16350/

    http://www.ummid.com/news/2014/February/26.02.2014/opinion-poll-companies-exposed.html#sthash.h8rTzw8V.dpuf

    http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/471548/exit-polls-manipulated-modi-will-never-be-pm-samajwadi-party.html

    http://www.rediff.com/news/report/general-impression-that-opinion-polls-can-be-manipulated-sibal/20131109.htm

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Many-agencies-manipulating-opinion-poll-projections-claims-sting-operation/articleshow/31013534.cms

    http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2764415112001

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/mhp-furious-over-opinion-poll-manipulation-claims.aspx?pageID=238&nID=62184&NewsCatID=338

    • Chooky 14.1
      6 September 2014 at 9:51 am

      disturbed +100% …great comment and links ..this should a Post !

      I have seen similar comments over on the Daily Blog

      ..Skewed polling is a deliberate attempt to manipulate the minds of the undecided New Zealand voter to undermine their confidence and decision to vote for a change of government …and should be exposed for what it is

      …falsified statistics used in a spurious PR campaign with supposed scientific validity

      (I myself refuse to answer polls…and I have been asked a number of times by a number of different polling companies.. don’t know why…I know others who have never been asked…and others who lie when asked)

      • David H 14.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 11:27 am

        And DPF trying to say that the polling was kosher so I called him on it ( I had a call and was cut out halfway through the ‘interview’) That was the end of the Conversation with him.

      • disturbed 14.1.2
        6 September 2014 at 12:37 pm

        In regard to post 14, Polls manipulated. Chooky.

        I sent this post to all the left wing opposition parties, and TDB,

        I ask if anyone wants to set up this as a repost, I give my total consent.

        I am a little lost at posting so chooky or anyone who can do it justice PLEASE go ahead and set up a post and when the feedback comes in I will send it all to the left wing opposition parties being damaged by this to get something done about this next week as it is as bad as the Leaders debate Bias that David Cunliffe complained to TVNZ about.

        Thanks Chooky.

    • ianmac 14.2
      6 September 2014 at 10:32 am

      A great column disturbed and disturbed we should be too. And there is something strange about our current polls. Be hard to prove but…

    • marg 14.3
      6 September 2014 at 10:57 am

      Thanks Disturbed for this article and links so interesting and frightening. I have been rung 4 times in the last 7 weeks with exactly the same strategy as you describe, lots of questions and then the ‘supervisor’ obviously said no! and hung up with no bye you way – rude as much as anything. I then had another call and they asked straight out what my age group was and replied oh your too old we don’t need anything more from oldies. I swore at them which I won’t print here! Polls are a huge scam.

      • Colonial Viper 14.3.1
        6 September 2014 at 12:41 pm

        This appears to be a very serious problem if it is happening to more than a few people.

      • disturbed 14.3.2
        6 September 2014 at 10:25 pm

        Hi Marg, Karol,
        Proof of selective polling.

        I am prepared to go to Campbell live, how can we do this any Ideas please Karol how we can discuss?

        Can you post a site where it will ask if others have been contacted and dropped after some discussion after age was approved and poll questions begin and end with no acceptance?

    • KJS0ne 14.4
      6 September 2014 at 2:20 pm

      You should go to Campbell live with this, I’m sure they’d be all over it.

    • glen garforth 14.5
      6 September 2014 at 4:38 pm

      as i understand it, the scab has been ripped off an ugly sore,
      it shows, if not corruption, then highly inappropriate behaviour by at least one senior politician.

      then the party shows a lift in some polls.

      i want to provocatively suggest that if any one is polled to answer that they are voting for the right, or hard right.

      this could possibly cause: complacency by the right.
      a rally to arms by the left.
      possibly have the media question the veracity of these polls.

      i agree with the notion that polling should stop well before the election.

    • Te Reo Putake 15.1
      6 September 2014 at 9:41 am

      Again, it would be helpful if you’d explain what the link is. Not everyone has a Trademe account. Mind you, if it’s interesting to you, it’s almost certainly pants.

      • BM 15.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 9:56 am

        That’s right you need an account to log in and view the message board.

        I’ll copy and paste the first post.

        There’s evidence mounting of DC’s inappropriate behavior and blurred lines between his personal and private lives. Rumor has been going for sometime but now the evidence has been accumulated.

        There’s also a senior Labour MP possibly in the firing line over a sexual assault. I say “possibly” as much depends on whether the victim chooses to take it further. She has the evidence.

        I note this as someone who has personally seen the evidence for both incidents from the people involved and not third parties. It is compelling and thorough. The holders of the evidence have taken extensive legal advice, have affidavits signed and witnessed, and are very respectable people who are above reproach.

        I’d suggest the next two weeks will be the most infamous in the history of NZ politics.

        [karol: These are just personal smears from the gutter, spreading them with no evidence.]

        • Paul 15.1.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 10:01 am

          Is Slater/Ede/Odgers now using trade me for sleazy dirty poltics

        • Te Reo Putake 15.1.1.2
          6 September 2014 at 10:12 am

          So, I was right. Pants from start to finish. Cheers, though, BM, it’s always great to see examples of right wing desperation such as that comment. Obviously, if the incidents were real, we’d already know about it.

        • Ant 15.1.1.3
          6 September 2014 at 10:33 am

          Oh so more of Slater’s shit that he and his cronies have been trying to seed around social media.

          Already heard the outline of these claims, just another attempt by these sock puppets to ratfuck Cunliffe.

          Was waiting for a dick like BM to try and post it here, “just saw it on the TM forums”…. yeah right… Cameron’s been grinding this axe all week.

          • BM 15.1.1.3.1
            6 September 2014 at 10:53 am

            Yeah, I’ve heard of few rumors over the past couple of weeks.

            Not in that sort of detail though which is what I found interesting, if it is made up, the author of that post may be in a bit of trouble.

            I’m sure DC wouldn’t be happy to have his name dragged through the mud like that and would no doubt take steps to clear it.

            • Tracey 15.1.1.3.1.1
              6 September 2014 at 12:00 pm

              If you have heard rumours you must hang around some pretty vile people, you really have turned out to be quite a vile person morality and ethics wise…

              You remind me of many described in dirty politics, and this comment/posting of yours is beyond contempt. Especially when you dont condemn the behaviour which has been proven to impact the governing of nz. Cunliffe has no power… The right are showing themselves to be beyond despicable.

              Now

              Fuck off

            • Rich 15.1.1.3.1.2
              6 September 2014 at 12:34 pm

              Oh rumo(u)rs. How substantive.

              Don’t care. (that’s one of your mates favourites).

        • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1.4
          6 September 2014 at 11:30 am

          More dirty politics from the right – nothing else there.

        • Tracey 15.1.1.5
          6 September 2014 at 11:57 am

          By infamous they mean sleazy?!?

        • McFlock 15.1.1.6
          6 September 2014 at 4:58 pm

          more crafted dirty tricks, from a camp that specialises in them. The fingerprints of invention are all over it – including the “blurred lines” innuendo.

          You’re a degenerate fuck.

        • miravox 15.1.1.7
          6 September 2014 at 6:33 pm

          Just a quick question – How does someone blur personal and privates lives?

        • Puddleglum 15.1.1.8
          6 September 2014 at 8:29 pm

          “blurred lines between his personal and private lives“???

          That’s nonsensical.

          Edit: Sorry miravox. I should have read the whole thread first!

          • miravox 15.1.1.8.1
            7 September 2014 at 3:50 am

            No problem Pg. The more people who notice that sort of idiocy the better.

            It is nonsensical, although I guess the author couldn’t be sued for defamation with that line 😉

    • Murray Olsen 15.2
      7 September 2014 at 2:02 am

      Another load of bullshit with no evidence, just like all the threats Slug Boy makes. Funny how the “left” (except maybe for Mallard) only releases stuff when there is hard evidence, but with the morans it’s always “I’ve seen the evidence of Cunliffe fellating a goat. The goat is likely to make a statement any day now.”

      Pathetic, BM. Bristol 6 for that one.

  16. IB 16
    6 September 2014 at 9:39 am

    Has any one noticed that the three poll results issued this week by the professional polling companies are almost identical with the results released two weeks before the 2011 election day by the same companies. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2011

    Whilst I am sure these polls are not rigged, I am wondering if we are heading for a status quo result with most voters staying ‘tribal’

    • disturbed 16.1
      6 September 2014 at 10:49 pm

      IB are you kidding,
      “I am sure these polls are not rigged”

      Using a mop?

      Go find a dirty floor, you must work in the bee hive.

      Try 9th floor,

      We have upwards to 15 cases now since we have been on two sites complaining about unusual poll calls, and been dropped after answering primary questions to check for required selection and then going through a 10 minute polling questionnaire to be dropped at breakneck speed with out any reason or even thank you for your time by these “professional polling companies ” we are onto you, you crooked fucks.

      Oh we asked one pooling group that was not crooked and they heard this and said we should put in a complaint to the electoral commission or Police so which do you prefer?

  17. David H 17
    6 September 2014 at 9:42 am

    On the Nation Parker has turned English into a mop and is wiping the floor with him.

    • Paul 17.1
      6 September 2014 at 9:45 am

      But how will the Panel report it?
      Probably the other way.

      • Anne 17.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 10:40 am

        They did. Or at least Fran O”Sullivan claimed Bill English came out on top. Yep the Finance minister who has no fresh ideas (whereas Parker iterated fresh policy after fresh policy) won the debate.

        • Paul 17.1.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 10:53 am

          Wasn’t O’Sullivan implicated in Dirty Politics?
          And the media still use her as a commentator.
          What. A. Joke.

          • Tracey 17.1.1.1.1
            6 September 2014 at 12:48 pm

            She and jared savage. But their editor, tim murphy (who thinks a statement and an affidavit are the same) said they are not.

            Hope that clears it up.

      • Clemgeopin 17.1.2
        6 September 2014 at 12:07 pm

        I was astounded and felt ashamed for Fran O’Sullivan when she said that English won the debate! He did not!
        Anyone, even with a tiny amount of integrity can see that David Parker was clearly very lucid and brilliant. He won that debate hands down. English failed on so many counts.
        Strangely, later in the discussions, Fran mentioned that Parker has shown a lot of thinking in his policies. That was a compliment, but to say that English won the debate is completely wrong, biased and pretty stupid.

        The debate on The Nation TV3 is not on line yet.

        • Clemgeopin 17.1.2.1
          6 September 2014 at 2:41 pm

          Here is the entire debate, about 20 plus minutes.
          Well worth watching by all, including the right wing. It shows Parker will be an excellent very able finance minister and that there is no problem giving your party vote to Labour for a strong Labour led government. See for yourself:
          http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/thenation/debate-economy-and-coalitions-2014090613

        • RedBaronCV 17.1.2.2
          6 September 2014 at 7:52 pm

          I thought Parker’s best moment was when Bill English was being chased around about the ethics of taking credit card details from websites and English goes “there are more serious issues”.
          Parker then steps up and goes something like “yes trying to derail a serious fraud investigate and pervert the course of justice.”

    • Kiwiri 17.2
      6 September 2014 at 9:54 am

      No-plan Double Dipton says “the plan is to continue with the plan”.

      It would be hilarious if he weren’t so tragic.

      • Kiwiri 17.2.1
        6 September 2014 at 10:03 am

        Is it ok? Is it ok? Is it ok, Mr English? Is it ok? Is it ok?

        • Puddleglum 17.2.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 8:36 pm

          They just refuse to answer.

          And this is not some detail of a policy that is yet to be written clause by clause into legislation – this is about basic ethics. Just as was the question that Guyon Espiner posed to Key over Collins.

          Cunliffe can’t answer a detail about policy – Key and English can’t answer fundamental questions about their personal ethics.

          I wonder which the media believe has made a ‘gaffe’?

      • dv 17.2.2
        6 September 2014 at 12:39 pm

        Bill intends to continue with the plan

        So in 3 years another 30 billion in debt.!!!

  18. phillip ure 18
    6 September 2014 at 10:16 am

    you are fucken kidding me…!

    ..gower just excelled himself..his worst interview ever…

    ..12 mins interview with harre/harawira..

    ..trying to drive a wedge between internet and mana cannabis policies..

    ..that was the whole fucken interview…!

    ..un-fucken-believable..

    ..third rate tabloid hack…

    ..gower owns that tawdry crown..

    ..and an undoubted nadir in the coverage of this election..

    ..i can’t see it being/getting worse than this effort..

    • David H 18.1
      6 September 2014 at 11:42 am

      The Twitter feed was a little scathing as well and Gower’s still waffling on.

    • glen garforth 18.2
      6 September 2014 at 4:47 pm

      i have been staying in the far north for a week with a fellow harawira enthusist.
      he was of the opinion that the mana/internet coalition could be in for a tuff time ref the opposite stances on marijuana.

      i notice hone was away when laila was speaking about reform of policy.

      there are also questions around how hone hamdled his recent car prang.

  19. kenny 19
    6 September 2014 at 10:18 am

    It’s occurred to me that this government and it’s conniving, hero-worshiping media are deliberately trying to divert the election campaign up a dead-end tunnel where the light of truth, decency and honesty cannot penetrate. They are doing this by trying to get everyone talking about policy. Strange that before Dirty Politics it was all about personality and perception (because they had little policy worth talking about) but post-Dirty Politics it is now vital that we should only be talking about policy. The mainstream media can’t wait to agree.

    However, because of Dirty Politics, it is now more important than ever that this election is about WHO CAN THE PEOPLE TRUST to run the country; which party can be relied upon to carry out the functions of government without the greed, corruption and disdain for democracy as practiced by this current lot. Which bloc believes in devil-take-the-hindmost, give me the money, I’m all right Jack cronyism and which one believes in fairplay, equality before the law, a fair go for all, everyone sharing in the wealth of this country etc.

    This election now needs to be about electing a government which is TRUSTWORTHY and has INTEGRITY and CARES ABOUT PEOPLE BEFORE PROFIT.

    Nothing less will do.

    • phillip ure 19.1
      6 September 2014 at 10:32 am

      that wd be grns/int-mana together being more in numbers than labour..

      ..that is the only way i can see happening what you and many others want..

      ..when that happens..that will happen..

      • kenny 19.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 11:43 am

        Hi Phillip – I see it as Labour/Greens/InternetMana and maybe NZ First combined. That bloc is unbeatable I think.

        We need to elect a government of the people for the people; one we can rely on to govern for all NZer’s of all persuasions including the right. Utopia? Maybe, but why not try?

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2
      6 September 2014 at 11:33 am

      +111

    • blue leopard 19.3
      6 September 2014 at 12:07 pm

      +1 Kenny

      The media are not so very interested in talking about policy, even now, or they would have been more focused on how many policies Cunliffe talked about in the debate in Christchurch and noted that Key hardly mentioned any of National’s. (I don’t think National have many) They preferred, however to fixate on one error that Cunliffe made and ignored the many failings of what Key saw fit to present to (inflict on) the voting audience.

      I agree with you comment, and would also add that a narrative about what sound democracy requires is a vote-worthy issue too.

      Labour sums it up fairly well here (my bet is the Greens and IMP have similar pages too)

      http://campaign.labour.org.nz/democracy

      http://campaign.labour.org.nz/broadcasting

    • Tracey 19.4
      6 September 2014 at 12:50 pm

      And Dunne is complicit. Dismisses dirty politics as muvk raking… While championing the importance of family…

    • disturbed 19.5
      6 September 2014 at 1:02 pm

      100% Kenny. This thought I will send to all left opposition MPs today as in all our public interest.

      We on the left don’t delve in dirt, only good policy ideas and input as our democratic right.

      Integrity or lack of it is National’s Achilles heel.

  20. just thinking 20
    6 September 2014 at 10:27 am

    Jason Ede = Antarctic Lemur

    labourscandals
    sirhumphreys
    …

  21. weka 21
    6 September 2014 at 10:28 am

    hmmm, this is not good. I’m sure mostly it’s DPF and the rest of the crew shitstirring (Farrar has a post up about it this morning), but Labour and Cunliffe need to do much better than basically parroting what Key has been saying all this time about his own staff’s involvement with Slater, not least because we know that Key has been lying through his teeth. Simply saying “you can trust us, nothing to see here, move on” is an inadequate response in these circumstances.

    Labour’s leader has confirmed his chief of staff has had dealings with blogger Cameron Slater but is refusing to say what they’ve involved.

    David Cunliffe says Matt McCarten has had contact Mr Slater and that he has no concerns about this.

    And despite saying sunlight is the best disinfectant with regard to the release of Mr Slater’s hacked computer data, Mr Cunliffe is declining to say what the dealings might have been.

    “There is nothing to fear and there is nothing to hide. I don’t go around releasing peoples’ private communications.”

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/121713709-cunliffe-confirms-mccarten-contacted-slater

    That’s a piece by Felix Marwick. Do we know where he fits into Slatergate?

    • Bill 21.1
      6 September 2014 at 10:43 am

      Why is that any kind of story? (Sorry, I won’t be around to respond further) But having watched yesterday’s Otago debate, I was struck by the fact that only one of the participants (Prof Jackson) appeared to have read and actually understood the implications of what Hager had highlighted in ‘Dirty Politics’. The others, and this is in line with this non-scandal of McCarten talking to a blogger, didn’t seem able to differentiate between somebody being called a sheep shagger or talking to a sheep shagger (oh, so scandalous!), and a very deliberate system being set up by a political party allowing blogs (Whaleoil and Kiwiblog) to be used as a conduit for smears and misdirections to be picked up and reported by msm.

      If McCarten had been trying to plant stories through Whaleoil, then yeah…different matter. But, what’s the chances of a component of National’s attack machine accommodating anything coming from the left? That’s right – none. Meanwhile, if McCarten wants to converse with Slater….so fucking what?

      quick edit – if academics don’t get it, and they’re meant to be erm…smart, then what chance is there of ordinary people perceiving the serious dangers Hager has outlined?

      • weka 21.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 10:57 am

        Well quite. So how come Labour aren’t saying that? They don’t have to make a big deal out of it, just say what kind of contact McCarten has had, and point out the difference between that and Slatergate.

        Here’s Bomber’s take on it,

        http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/05/hone-harawira-biased-polls-matt-mccarten-examples-of-the-msm-still-pimping-for-whaleoil/

        re the academics, I haven’t watched the video yet, but I have to wonder if much of this not getting it is the result of people who don’t spend time in the blogosphere not understanding what the blogosphere actually is.

        • Ant 21.1.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 11:15 am

          Labour are trying not to get suckered into whataboutery war. If they give the story too much oxygen or release these comms then it validates him some more and Slater can talk some shit about releasing X email from X MP that he’s made up on the spot, then it’s Bill Liu’s donation all over again.

          It’s a trap Labour are avoiding. And it’s Nationals main play, shift the story to be about communication not about the behaviour of the main individual involved.

          “look everyone sends emails, everyone talks to bloggers, we’re all the same, nothing to see here.”

          • weka 21.1.1.1.1
            6 September 2014 at 11:28 am

            I agree about not getting sucked into it, and I agree it’s important to normalise contact with blogs. The problem is at the moment Labour are mirroring Key’s response to Slatergate. They have to differeniate themselves from that or run the risk of affirming Key while undermining themselves (thanks MSM). I don’t think it would be that hard to come up with a short statement that does what Bill is talking about above – not all contact with blogs is the same or has the same implications.

          • MrSmith 21.1.1.1.2
            6 September 2014 at 12:40 pm

            They’re also preempting the Ede stories about to come out, with the old play ground chant “but they did it too” also fits Keys persona.

          • karol 21.1.1.1.3
            6 September 2014 at 3:40 pm

            So how come Labour aren’t saying that?

            I saw Cunliffe make a comment about McCarten’s communications with Slater – it was on a TV News in the last couple of days. Cunliffe just said that McCarten had some communication with Slater but it wasn’t anything significant.

            Here is Cunliffe talking to TV One about it.

            As Bradbury says, it’s just Team Key running diversions and distractions.

        • Rich 21.1.1.2
          6 September 2014 at 12:47 pm

          I was more surprised by the 3/4 Australian accents.

      • weka 21.1.2
        6 September 2014 at 11:00 am

        “quick edit – if academics don’t get it, and they’re meant to be erm…smart, then what chance is there of ordinary people perceiving the serious dangers Hager has outlined?”

        This is where the MSM should be stepping up. But they don’t get it either (or are embedded and compromised). Am thinking it’s time that the feral media started doing more organising and active outreach into the mainstream (by feral I mean blogs, tweeps, fb etc, and probably offline strategies too).

        • Tracey 21.1.2.1
          6 September 2014 at 12:54 pm

          BM is parrotting, or creating, some sleaze aroud cunliffe. Precisely because the media have failed abysmally to make it clear this is about people in power abusing that power…

      • Tracey 21.1.3
        6 September 2014 at 12:52 pm

        “.didn’t seem able to differentiate between somebody being called a sheep shagger or talking to a sheep shagger (oh, so scandalous!), and a very deliberate system being set up by a political party allowing blogs (Whaleoil and Kiwiblog) to be used as a conduit for smears and misdirections to be picked up and reported by msm.”

        Plus 1000

        Thankfully a high court judge could make the differentiation

      • Ergo Robertina 21.1.4
        6 September 2014 at 5:43 pm

        Yes, Prof Jackson gave a good summation of the book, what it reveals, and why it matters. I have found him interesting and perceptive on other forums.
        I nearly lost the will to live during the panel discussion, the usual generic media comms pontification.
        My guess is that Prof Jackson is used to visceral and confronting themes in his subject area of peace studies, and would have no trouble grasping the importance of Dirty Politics.
        I am starting to think that accepting the enormity of the corruption of our democracy as elucidated by Prof Jackson is too much for most people, whether they be ‘smart’ academics or ‘ordinary’ folk.

    • crocodill 21.2
      6 September 2014 at 4:07 pm

      “…an inadequate response in these circumstances.”

      Not sure why anyone wants McCarten gone, but yes, Labour should be… ah right, Labour and “should be’s”. Strategy is not their strong point.

      McCarten get’s “dumped”, guilty or not = validates Nat line that “the left do it too”.
      Coms published = side show and implies the “left are capable of doing it too”
      No coms published = doubt over “Labour” is capable of doing it too.

      Who made the error? Cunliffe, by confirming a rumour, inviting sunlight, and then quickly pulling down the shades. Fail. I think the word is catastrophuck.

      On the up-side, apparently voters are unconcerned with Dirty Politics, therefore, no harm done regardless of anything. Maybe Cunliffe could run with that. e.g.

      “John Key’s supporters appear to have the majority of polls so far. If that is the truly the case, any contact my chief of staff might have had with Cameron Slater is well within their range of the harmlessly acceptable.”

  22. Paul 22
    6 September 2014 at 10:37 am

    Another piece of evidence showing our increasingly degraded environment.
    To save the Hauraki Gulf.
    Another reason to vote Green this year.

    “Water health may reach tipping point

    Water pollution from decades of farming may be approaching a “tipping point” which threatens marine life in the Hauraki Gulf, says an experienced scientist.

    Research by Dr John Zeldis, principal scientist for marine ecology at the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (Niwa), shows that water in the Firth of Thames has become increasingly acidic because of a build-up of nutrients from rivers which receive run-off from farms on the Hauraki Plains.”

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11319874

    • Ant 23.1
      6 September 2014 at 11:28 am

      Yeah he mad.

    • crocodill 23.2
      6 September 2014 at 4:17 pm

      Speaking of catastrophuck, The Labour Party president has got into the mindboggling situation of telling the public (via media) that Gibson and Dickson are unacceptable Labour candidates, even though they’re on the ballot. She says Gibson won’t be chosen as candidate again. Twisted. Cunliffe says anyone can vote for whoever they want.

      • Ant 23.2.1
        6 September 2014 at 4:22 pm

        They need to sort out pre-selection vetting, this kind of thing can’t happen again.

        Gibson should be expelled from the party.

      • BM 23.2.2
        6 September 2014 at 4:23 pm

        Wheels have completely come off the Labour election-mobile.

        Cunliffe away with the fairies.

  24. Nick K 24
    6 September 2014 at 11:25 am

    You fullas have probably already seen this, but I found it a good read this morning and no harm in sharing.

    I’m in Ohariu and pleased to see its going to be close…

    http://bryanbruce.co.nz/blog/election-2014/how-create-child-friendly-parliament-voting-strategically

  25. The Al1en 25
    6 September 2014 at 12:11 pm

    Bill English

    “We think the tax structure for income tax is about right at the top end,” .

    Yeah, ’cause at the height of the GFC, you gave yourself millions in tax cuts. Nice to know you’re alright, Jack.

    “Any moderate tax reductions should be for low and moderate income earners,”.

    We count the cake, you count the crumbs, and those with nothing can count their blessings.
    Vote National.

    • dv 25.1
      6 September 2014 at 12:20 pm

      “We think the tax structure for income tax is about right at the top end,” .

      Yep Bill
      So why is the National debt now

      NZ$ 86,699,710,575

      • TheContrarian 25.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 12:28 pm

        I’m (or at least was) near that top tax bracket when the tax cuts came in and I got like an extra $30 odd in my pay packet per week (or fifty a fortnight – can’t quite remember now).

        I would have been more than to have stayed on the same tax rate. $30 meant little to me but was a lot to others.

    • Tracey 25.2
      6 September 2014 at 12:56 pm

      Hang on if tax cuts are good, why not 0%.

      Isnt that what tge right say about the minimum wage?

  26. Clemgeopin 26
    6 September 2014 at 12:14 pm

    The Greens say that they have COMMON GROUND with National and CAN work with them!

    Being shameless sap sucking parasites of Labour damaging its party vote, now these opportunist numbnuts are signalling some thing else and indirectly propping up National’s electoral chances..

    Bastards.

    These pretentious cunning crooks will never get my vote.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/greens-and-national-share-some-common-ground-2014090608

    • The Al1en 26.1
      6 September 2014 at 12:30 pm

      The greens got $400m to insulate cold kiwi homes out of a post election memorandum of understanding. I can’t imagine the greens giving confidence and supply to key let alone go into coalition with him, based on the diametric positions of a raft of social issues, though knowing time is running out re climate change, the world may not have enough of it for labour to sort out it’s voter apathy, who could blame them for making a start under the nats?

      • The Al1en 26.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 12:36 pm

        On a lighter side, according to some recent reports re David Parker, MT and RN working with English would be less treacherous and deviant as hone around the cabinet table dealing with the labour finance minister… By all accounts. 😉

      • Tracey 26.1.2
        6 September 2014 at 12:59 pm

        Isnt that a higher economic slice than MP got during that term?

      • weka 26.1.3
        6 September 2014 at 1:19 pm

        “I can’t imagine the greens giving confidence and supply to key let alone go into coalition with him,”

        Neither can the GP. Below is what Norman actually said, that Clem conveniently left out (my emphaisis).

        This isn’t the GP starting with the Nats, it’s the position they’ve taken for a number of years. As you say, they’ve made some gains before. It’s part of co-operative politics, and it’s part of the GP being mainstream and picking up some middle votes because they can work with anyone on policy.

        The Greens say they can work with National, just not in a formal coalition.

        Party co-leader Russel Norman was tipped by many as one of the winners of last night’s TVNZ minor leaders’ debate.

        Current political polling took up much of the debate, with the Greens saying they want at least 15 percent support.

        Dr Norman says he admires Finance Minister Bill English and afterwards said he could work with National.

        “We’ve got $400 million projects out of National over the last six years. Mostly the home insulation scheme, which was a huge, fantastic project,” he says. “So we work with parties where there is common ground.”

        • The Al1en 26.1.3.1
          6 September 2014 at 1:34 pm

          I read what RN said, and it sure adds the missing context to the common ground quote above.

          Interesting call to take for the leadership team to take on election night if labour don’t get it together though.
          15% plus is looking a good bet, but that could just be a bit of wishful thinking coming through.
          They are looking a good combo in all the debates.

          Given their strength in the polls and on TV, wonder how successful a less whiny than colin’s last minute push to be included in the key v DC debate finale would go?
          Dunne’s worm/Clegg’s winner effect in action.

        • Clemgeopin 26.1.3.2
          6 September 2014 at 1:43 pm

          By so signalling the Greens are actually indirectly propping up National’s electoral chances and damaging Labour’s chances some more. Don’t you get that?

          • The Al1en 26.1.3.2.1
            6 September 2014 at 1:49 pm

            “By so signalling the Greens are actually indirectly propping up National’s electoral chances and damaging Labour’s chances some more. Don’t you get that?”

            I don’t see the greens doing any of that which you claim, other than taking votes of labour it can’t hold on to, which I take you don’t seem to like much, So no, no I don’t get that.

          • weka 26.1.3.2.2
            6 September 2014 at 1:52 pm

            “By so signalling the Greens are actually indirectly propping up National’s electoral chances and damaging Labour’s chances some more.”

            They’re not propping up National’s electoral chances you fool, they’re stealing their votes.

            The GP have about the same responsibility for Labour’s chances as Labour have for the GP’s.

            • Clemgeopin 26.1.3.2.2.1
              6 September 2014 at 3:13 pm

              Yes, they may be trying to steal some soft votes off from National, but will scare off many more voters from National going to Labour. Greens have already stolen lots of votes off Labour and have weakened it to such an extent that getting the 50% to form a progressive government is getting harder. I think MOST Green supporters are those that would normally vote for Labour.

              Even if the progressives are able to form a government, the Greens greed, extremist policies, narrow outlook and short term thinking will more likely than not to have such a coalition with a strong Green contingent being kicked out in three years.

              If Nats form a coalition, the Greens will prop them up as they ‘have a common ground’ with them stated by Norman for a few crumbs as usual, feel smug and shortchange the leftist long term cause.

              It is much better for Labour as well as the Greens and the progressive block if Labour is much stronger at about 40% plus and the Greens at about 10% minus.

              You called me a ‘fool’. In fact, I think that it is Norman that is a short term thinking fool who has managed to fool a lot of voters with his nice sounding sweet talk. [He even PAID people to collect signatures for the anti asset sale referendum petition! How foolish and dumb is that!]

              • weka …
                6 September 2014 at 5:55 pm

                You say the GP would prop up a National govt. By that I take it you mean give them confidence and supply. You have absolutely no evidence of that and are just making shit up because you hate the GP.

                Greens have already stolen lots of votes off Labour and have weakened it to such an extent that getting the 50% to form a progressive government is getting harder. I think MOST Green supporters are those that would normally vote for Labour.

                Diddums. If Labour want to be a big party again, they need to get rid of the ABCs, and move left and sort out their environmental and social policies. There’s a reason that the GP have picked up so many left votes, and it’s not because the GP are nasty thieves. It’s because Labour never me the needs of those voters.

                Labour don’t own left wing votes. They have to earn them. If the GP start doing the same stupid shit that Labour have done, then they will deserve to lose those votes too.

                • Clemgeopin …
                  6 September 2014 at 9:03 pm

                  “You say the GP would prop up a National govt. By that I take it you mean give them confidence and supply. You have absolutely no evidence of that and are just making shit up because you hate the GP”

                  Norman said that ‘the Greens have common ground with National’ and that ‘the Greens can work with National, just not in a formal coalition’

                  He said he got 400 million from National last time as policy concession. National would not have given that free without some support in return.

                  National will give them diddly squat without a confidence and supply arrangement or some sort of memorandum of understadning. If you believe they do, then you are naive. C & S or MoUis different from ‘formal coalition’ as he put it.

                  I do not ‘hate the Greens’ as you put it, but hate their stupid narrow minded short sighted politically naive cocky attitude and greedy suicidal policies and methods which will end up alienating the majority of voters in the country and thus damage the entire progressive movement sooner than later. Why do you think the progressive moment struggles to come close to 50%? Greens are the primary reason in my opinion. There is genuine fear and distrust of the Greens apart from those that make up their 10% to 15% support. So Greens rising in polls, simultaneously causing Labour to languish or causing the Labour voters moving away to National, NZF or the Cons is actually a bad situation for the progressive left cause. Greens getting 16% or 20% does not make the situation any better, but that must worse in the long run from a political and electoral point of view. Greens can achieve much more for a much longer time, without causing mayhem if Labour is around 40% and Greens are at about 10%, unless the Greens can convince the majority in the country and get over 50% support on their own. Remote chance of that happening any time soon. We NEED the centre votes back in, not just the left and far left.

                  So, in your enthusiasm for the greens do not also be a Labour’s Green albatross denialist.

                  Norman has shown scant trust, respect and confidence in David Parker by stating that he want’s David’s finance figures scrutinised by some outside finance agency. What an audacious, dumbarse, cocky, arrogant stance to make against Labour and its finance spokesman, Parker!

                  When asked which political leader he admired most, Norman said Bill English! Go figure!

                  Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/greens-and-national-share-some-common-ground-2014090608#ixzz3CWMinUxJ

                  • McFlock …
                    6 September 2014 at 9:14 pm

                    He said he got 400 million from National last time as policy concession. National would not have given that free without some support in return.

                    National will give them diddly squat without a confidence and supply arrangement or some sort of memorandum of understadning. If you believe they do, then you are naive. C & S or MoUis different from ‘formal coalition’ as he put it.

                    Okey dokey, so it would be simple for you to point out where Greens voted to keep the national government in confidence and supply in the last three years.

                    Which budget did the greens vote for? And if there was one, were they the deciding vote between confidence and a government collapse?

              • greywarbler …
                6 September 2014 at 6:18 pm

                @ Clemgeopin
                Actually to be quite straightforward and not wishful about them or excusing Labour, they have lost their own support.

                Greens want to keep doing the good things they were started to do and continue to do. Labour aren’t finished farting around in their recovery from the scarring of the Rogernome years. They are putting up a good front, and have lots of dedicated helpers, but haven’t come forward with the strong policies needed to fire support. Like Colonial Viper has been saying.

                Greens are just planning on continuing to carry out worth while policies of value to the people. Why should they consider only Labour? Labour won’t even consider talking to them before the election. Stupid foolish to be aiming for the highest count possible for Labour alone. Stupid pride. The game is the thing not aiming for high points on the honours board. So talking to Greens might dilute the results for Labour alone, might swell into a win for the Left. That’s the important thing.

              • Ergo Robertina …
                6 September 2014 at 6:19 pm

                Clem, given your definition of ‘extremist’ Green policies included the proposed top tax rate that is still at the lower end of the OECD, your antipathy towards the Greens appears irrational and ill-informed.
                http://thestandard.org.nz/key-cant-work-with-the-greens-because/#comment-875952

              • karol …
                6 September 2014 at 6:27 pm

                So the Greens are “extremist”, and aiming to take centre/right wing votes, and prop up a National government? Makes peeerrrfect sense.
                * frowning *

              • Binders full of women …
                6 September 2014 at 7:59 pm

                Clemo .. no one has STOLEN any votes… surely that would be against the law??!! Labour has lost votes (like mine.. remember only 18% of males plan to vote labour) because while some of the policies are okay (like Parker’s Kiwisaver vs OCR) it’s their people that are unvoteworthy.. Mallard, Moroney, Mackey… ps what is in the water up there?? a couple of weeks ago you predicted IMP to poll 6.8%

              • McFlock …
                6 September 2014 at 8:33 pm

                this is fucking hilarious.

                The Greens simultaneously “steal” labour votes with their “extremist” policies, in order to “prop up” national.

                Because they really want to end up with the support level of the Maori Party, but without any electorate seats.

                Clem, maybe you should stop gnashing your teeth and actually (as an alleged Labour supporter) “campaign positive”. Or are you the Labour party equivalent of Hutton Gibson – so Labour that you’re more Labour than the Labour party?

                • Clemgeopin …
                  6 September 2014 at 9:20 pm

                  Oi, this is a message board to express one’s views. I vote Labour. That does not mean I can’t say what I think. What I stated about the Greens is a positive message for all, including the Greens.

                  • McFlock …
                    6 September 2014 at 9:23 pm

                    What I stated about the Greens is a positive message for all, including the Greens.

                    wow, I’d hate to see what you regard as “negative-as-fuck, deranged, and obsessive idiocy”.

      • disturbed 26.1.4
        6 September 2014 at 1:24 pm

        Greens/NZ First may have to sit cross bench but we prefer they all get together and sort differences out.

        We have pleaded for this, will they listen?
        We have all to get rid before we are doomed.
        Even if combining with Inernet Mana.

        • The Al1en 26.1.4.1
          6 September 2014 at 1:57 pm

          I had a vision once about a rainbow alliance coming together united, to rid us from the nats and their dreg cling ons once and for good, but it looks like politicians acting like politicians, let politics get in the way of a good plan.

    • infused 26.2
      6 September 2014 at 7:50 pm

      The death of the Labour party is sealed… although, Labour should have disbanded many years ago, and formed under a new, more fitting name…

  27. Marcus 27
    6 September 2014 at 12:23 pm

    Wairarapa electorate has a large number of undecideds and Ron Mark might just split the right vote enough to let Labour’s McAnulty through. Plus McAnulty is getting out there campaigning well. So no Green candidate for me this time as this an opportunity too good to miss, might be close
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wairarapa-times-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503414&objectid=11319756

  28. Draco T Bastard 28
    6 September 2014 at 12:27 pm


    Spark users experience internet meltdown

    “It looks like a high volume of traffic is affecting the ability of customers to browse intermittently on broadband or mobile,” Spark spokesman Richard Llewellyn said shortly after 9am.

    He said it wasn’t yet clear what particular event may have caused the surge in traffic and subsequent outages.

    Yeah, privatisation is just sooo much better than state services…

    Oh, wait.

    • crocodill 28.1
      6 September 2014 at 4:19 pm

      Especially good look for a company that says they want out of the boring job of maintaining telephone lines, and would prefer the rock-star job of internet TV.

  29. disturbed 29
    6 September 2014 at 12:39 pm

    In regard to post 14, Polls manipulated. Chooky.
    WE CAN WITH CONFIDENCE NOW SAY WE ARE LIVING IN THE WORST CORRUPT TIME IN OUR SHORT HISTORY.
    I sent this post to all the left wing opposition parties, and TDB,

    I ask if anyone wants to set up this as a repost, I give my total consent.

    I am a little lost at SETTING UP A FEATURE posting so chooky or anyone who can do it justice PLEASE go ahead and set up a post and when the feedback comes in I will send it all to the left wing opposition parties being damaged by this to get something done about this next week as it is as bad as the Leaders debate Bias that David Cunliffe complained to TVNZ about.

    Thanks Chooky.

  30. Reddelusion 30
    6 September 2014 at 12:56 pm

    The hypocracy of Tracy and her Ilk is appalling, language is also revealing

  31. Reddelusion 31
    6 September 2014 at 12:56 pm

    The hypocracy of Tracy and her Ilk is appalling, language is also revealing

    • yeshe 31.1
      6 September 2014 at 3:50 pm

      so is your spelling, and more so than anything you try to write numptynuts.

      • Rich 31.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 6:30 pm

        Truthfully hypocracy sounds like a good description of our current system. It’s certainly not democracy.

        Not sure how it got through the spell checks though, when I wrote it out it changed automatically to ‘hypocrisy’.

    • crocodill 31.2
      6 September 2014 at 4:22 pm

      lol “her Ilk”. It’s true I have seen her wandering around with a yak-like creature on a lead. Perhaps you mistook it for a small Elk?

  32. Paul 32
    6 September 2014 at 1:38 pm

    The Leader speaks.
    “Public moved on from dirty politics – Key”
    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11320138

    That’s us told then.

    • Clemgeopin 32.1
      6 September 2014 at 1:57 pm

      He is probably trying to soften the public and mislead them into thinking that he is a good guy who is not part of the Dirty Politics in the background. Now wait for the rouge right wing dirty politics being unleashed like clockwork against Labour and Cunliffe in the coming days. Wouldn’t surprise me. Their modi operandi is clear to me and to those that see.

    • disturbed 32.2
      6 September 2014 at 5:18 pm

      Where’s the terms of reference he promised us last week? oh another lie!!

  33. Chaff 33
    6 September 2014 at 2:00 pm

    Why does everyone decry the media? it makes both ‘sides’ look ridiculous. There are two massive echo chambers, one on either side of the political divide, equally convinced that the media is biased.

    Normally we want evidence, but on this particular topic, 100% subjective ranting seems to be all we need.

    • crocodill 33.1
      6 September 2014 at 4:28 pm

      The media aren’t biased, they have simply disappeared so far up their own anus that all we get are the echoed calls for help from within. Just yesterday there was an outburst over whaledump/rawshark that could be summed up:

      “It’s not that it’s illegal, it’s just that if anyone can do it, we don’t have a job anymore.”

    • disturbed 33.2
      6 September 2014 at 5:22 pm

      der, Chaff, have you read about media bias do you know what this means?

      Is our democracy not as important as India’s?
      At least their Government held an investigation into their MSM sorry (Main stream media.)

      Did you hear or read the emails that connect the media directly to the Government of the Prime minister? “Unbridled influence” Connections to Slater who for years has been sending dirty emails threateningly to media and many others? interested?

      Lesson number one, read on how it ends in other counties better than here.

      New Delhi news.
      Sting operation reveals massive manipulation by opinion poll agencies
      ET Bureau Feb 26, 2014, 04.43AM IST

      (A TV news channel today claimed…)
      NEW DELHI: A number of opinion polling agencies approached by undercover reporters agreed to manipulate poll data, a television news channel has claimed, sparking a fresh controversy in a heated election season as senior ministers and political parties called for an investigation.
      Clips from the sting operation aired by the channel showed many pollsters agreeing to produce favourable numbers by leveraging the so-called margin of error, a statistical concept meant to indicate the quality of sampling and the accuracy to be expected from survey results.
      “For a price, the prediction of seats tally can be changed to suit the interests of political parties.

      The agencies have no qualms accepting even black money for this purpose,” the channel, News Express, said in a statement. Polling agencies approached by the channel include QRS, CVoter, Ipsos India, MMR and DRS, apart from a clutch of littleknown ones. Representatives from these agencies are seen responding variously to the undercover reporters, who posed as consultants for political parties.
      India Today magazine and Times NOW have said they were suspending opinion polls conducted by C-Voter, pending an explanation from the agency.
      Congress and the Aam Aadmi Party called for an investigation. Union Law Minister Kapil Sibal urged the Election Commission to urgently take up the matter. “This (the expose) is a very serious development. It shows these agencies are trying to manipulate public opinion. It is nothing but paidnews, manufactured to serve vested interests.
      This is an extremely serious offense that warrants a full-fledged inquiry… I also call upon the Election Commission to take all effective steps to ensure such shady operators are not allowed to manipulate the public opinion in the run up to the elections.”
      In November last year, the Election Commission had written to the government asking that a law be passed to restrict release of opinion poll results after the notification of elections. Fourteen out of fifteen national parties had agreed to the proposal.
      BJP opposed the proposal, saying such a move would impinge on freedom of expression. “We got the idea for the sting operation from the Election Commission letter.
      And then the fact that there seemed to be a new opinion poll almost every day now. Everybody is a pollster and a psephologist it seems,” said Vinod Kapri, editor in chief of News Express.
      He added that he was not calling into question any surveys aired or published so far. C-Voter CEO Yashwant Deshmukh said the conversations have been selectively edited.
      “The very first thing I said is that C-Voter won’t do this, Yashwant Deshmukh is not available to do this.
      Why are they not showing that? I’m explaining the concept of margin of error and talking about the limitations of the poll. Am I anywhere saying that I’m ready to fudge the figures?”
      A spokesperson for DRS said the executive who spoke with the undercover reporters is no longer with the company. “Manipulation is a term which is being used incorrectly here,” Ipsos said in a statement explaining the concept of margin of error.
      “We have no say in the data collection or analysis by any pollster.
      But we will ask C Voter for a clarification and till the time we are satisfied with their response, we have decided to suspend all opinion polls done by them in our channel,” Times Now editor-in-chief Arnab Goswami said

      http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-02-26/news/47705569_1_opinion-poll-public-opinion-sting-operation

      • ScottGN 33.2.1
        6 September 2014 at 8:22 pm

        That reminds me of the famous poll that the Murdoch press put out on the eve of the election where Rudd won a landslide against Howard. The lead in The Australian was “Too Close To Call”. It was a last ditch attempt to motivate disengaged (and pissed off) Coalition voters to get out on polling day.

  34. yeshe 34
    6 September 2014 at 3:52 pm

    I have lost all the info and formatting down the right hand side of these pages … anyone else ? thx

  35. Not a PS Staffer 35
    6 September 2014 at 4:12 pm

    Need Labour core flute signs urgently?

    I picked up a load this morning from Northbridge Signs in Albany. I ordered them on Thursday evening.

    http://northbridgesigns.co.nz. Call James or Paul on 09 415 0145. All they need is a .pdf that you can get from HO.

    $31.50 + gst FOR large 2.44 x1.2 .
    $12.50 +gst FOR. 900x 600

  36. Rose 36
    6 September 2014 at 4:14 pm

    We still haven’t solved the problem of low-value exports. Exports are about 30% of GDP. Under National, this proportion is almost the same as when they took office. It seems we need more R&D, innovative products, more of our food and beverage companies growing into Australia and succeeding, a lower NZ dollar. There are some good examples of export growth (infant formula, boat-building, computing, clean technology, Fisher & Paykel Healthcare, Icebreaker clothing, wine, NZ King salmon) but we are still not there. I wonder what is stopping us from creating more high-value exports.

  37. karol 37
    6 September 2014 at 4:15 pm

    I wish I had heard about this protest earlier – already had alternative arrangements for today.

    But it looks like it got a significant amount of support: “Crowds march for child poverty awareness”

  38. karol 38
    6 September 2014 at 8:13 pm

    This tweet:

    A lawyer within Crown Law leaked information about @KimDotcom’s case to @JordNZ or @TaxpayersUnion. Unbelievable.

    Email attached to the tweet. It’s also in this on Jackal’s blog:

    ————————-
    July 4, 2012
    ————————-
    Jordan Williams, 7/4, 11:02am

    mate, this shit I’m hearing about kim dot com is crazy
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 7/4, 11:02am

    what shit
    ————————-
    Jordan Williams, 7/4, 11:02am

    is someone keeping you in the loop re how much the police fucked it all up
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 7/4, 11:02am

    nope

    Crown law made the fuck up really though not the Police
    ————————-
    Jordan Williams, 7/4, 11:03am

    sorry yes, but let me tell you how they did too.

    okay, so the day before the raid, a car load of coppers rock up to the main gates and to their surprise get waved through by DotCom’s security guys
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 7/4, 11:03am

    write it up as a post?
    ————————-
    Jordan Williams, 7/4, 11:04am

    they go in then turn round and come back out

    (presumably they wanted to be able to say that they needed the warrant to enter the premises)
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 7/4, 11:05am

    except they were invited in…bugger
    ————————-
    Jordan Williams, 7/4, 11:06am

    they cut some fibre optic cables that connected 2 servers to a wall instead of unscrewing them from the wall which means that crown law are going to have to send them to the manufacturers to get the data off them as the optic cables are hard wired into the server.
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 7/4, 11:07am

    that sounds like bs to me
    ————————-
    Jordan Williams, 7/4, 11:08am

    instead of landing on the chopper pad, the helicopter the cops used landed on the drive way and sand basted a merc and damaged the chopper

    it came from a lawyer within crown law (albeit another devision)
    ————————-

    • brian 38.1
      6 September 2014 at 10:32 pm

      And from the same Jordan Williams / Cameron Slater correspondence, giving a little insight into the century they came from, before being mistakenly transported to the 21st century:

      ————————-
      January 10, 2013
      ————————-
      Jordan Williams, 1/10, 10:11am

      women; if they didn’t have a fxxxy between their legs they’d have a bounty on their heads

      nice pic with Judith holding Truth
      ————————-
      Cameron Slater, 1/10, 10:13am

      if they didn;t have cxxxs we’d chuck rocks at them

      • miravox 38.1.1
        7 September 2014 at 5:06 am

        That says it all really. Creeps. I’d call them misogynist but they probably see everyone in terms of personal gratification.

        The Voice of Labour, Josie Pagani, out shooting with Slater (and Simon Lusk?) I wonder what they talked about?

        ————————-
        May 8, 2012
        ————————-
        Jordan Williams, 5/8, 8:41am

        Is Josie pagani, john’s daughter?
        ————————-
        Cameron Slater, 5/8, 8:41am

        Went shooting with her on Sunday

        wife

        • miravox 38.1.1.1
          7 September 2014 at 5:07 am

          Also this

          ————————-
          June 24, 2013
          ————————-
          Jordan Williams, 6/24, 12:14am

          hey, you know an easy way to push dunn out?

          get him to stand for Wgtn mayor

          have the conversation with him
          ————————-
          Cameron Slater, 6/24, 12:19am

          I know a much easier way

          release details of his donations (undeclared) that he received personally from tobacco companies

  39. Ad 39
    6 September 2014 at 8:22 pm

    Pretty dark if Crown Law really are leaking.
    Hope this comes out in the inquiry.

    • yeshe 39.1
      6 September 2014 at 9:22 pm

      and considering the Dep Solicitor General of Crown Law at that same exact time is now heading the SIS inquiry for Key and Collins.

      Oh, how I hope Cheryl Gwyn is better and with more integrity than all this might suggest.

      (From last dumps by WD .. and if the Sunday papers have nothing tomorrow, whar will he/she do I wonder ?)

      edit: can this be used to demand Cheryl Gwyn resile from the inquiry on the grounds It appears to be her own dept leaking?

      • Murray Olsen 39.1.1
        7 September 2014 at 3:00 am

        In a functioning democracy, she would exclude herself. On Planet Key, it probably gives her expert knowledge and makes her better suited. There is after all precedent for this, with the IPCA using police to investigate police. The average Kiwi swallows that.

  40. ScottGN 40
    6 September 2014 at 8:40 pm

    Brian Mulroney, in a series of interviews this week (marking the 30th anniversary since he won a majority and became Canadian Prime Minister) has really let rip at Stephen Harper. I thought this comment could apply equally well to the current PM here in NZ:

    “If you’re concerned about popularity and you’re conserving your popularity, you can be certain that your impact upon history will be very, extremely modest. You have to govern, I think, as I’ve said, not for easy headlines in 10 days but for a better Canada in 10 years.”

    “So what do you want to do — do you want to be remembered as some guy who was popular, or do you want to be remembered 50 years from now as somebody who made profound social and economic and political changes in the country, and who thereby shaped his nation in a beneficial way for future generations?”

  41. yeshe 41
    6 September 2014 at 9:58 pm

    an encouraging note from Tracy Watkins on Stuff …

    “…….National strategists insist Dirty Politics and hacked emails are a “beltway issue” that only journalists are interested in. The polls say they may be right. The number of times dirty politics stories make the daily best read list on Stuff.co.nz says they’re wrong.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10468444/Many-grenades-on-this-campaign-trail

    Also reports Key left a hand written note in the classroom of St Margaret’s College that was his pre-debate room:

    “Meanwhile, social media is going feral about Key’s note to St Margaret’s pupils – he had an apostrophe in the wrong place.” Oh dear.

    • Rich 41.1
      6 September 2014 at 10:02 pm

      Oh well now that could be interesting. Anyone know what the apostrophe was, then I can do a search here.

    • karol 41.2
      6 September 2014 at 10:05 pm

      And this bit re the CGT debate:

      Key raises lots of questions. Tells reporters: “I can’t answer those questions. It’s not my stupid policy.” This is presumably what National meant when it told media to move on from dirty politics and start focusing on “the high level policy debate”.

      Indeed. Seriously, Key has been acting a bit like a petulant schoolboy at times lately.

  43. North 43
    8 September 2014 at 5:25 am

    Intimations of life in NZ if Craig and his witch-burners get anywhere near the levers of power ?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11320492

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