Open mike 11/12/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 11th, 2011 - 145 comments
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145 comments on “Open mike 11/12/2011 ”

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  1. Carol 1
    11 December 2011 at 7:48 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6121341/Maori-Party-deal-expected

    National is today set to seal a new deal with the Maori Party giving Prime Minister John Key the support he’s after to embark on a more aggressive second term reform agenda.

    […]

    He yesterday formally advised Governor General Sir Jerry Mateparae of his intention to form the Government.

    A further three votes from the Maori Party are likely to be announced today after late night talks on Friday suggested the party was headed for another term backing a National-led Government.

    The last of the Maori Party hui canvassing the views of members on a deal wrapped up yesterday and Key said he was ”very optimistic” of announcing a deal as early as this afternoon.

    “I would be absolutely stunned if they don’t do a deal with us,” Key said.

    Really? What a sorry shell of their former aspirations the Maori Party have become. About to sign a deal to support National’s “more aggressive second term reform agenda”? For what? Some baubles of office and a sweet asset sales deal for some of the Iwi elite?

    SHAME!

    And how will this sit with the large amount of Maori on low incomes, the working poor and the unemployed?

    • Lanthanide 1.2
      11 December 2011 at 8:48 am

      Presumably if the large amount of Maori on low incomes cared, they would have voted for the left.

      According to iPredict, the voter turnout in the Maori electorates was about 56%.

      • Carol 1.2.1
        11 December 2011 at 8:52 am

        Well, it certainly doesn’t show a lot of confidence in the Maori Party.

      • weka 1.2.2
        11 December 2011 at 1:00 pm

        “Presumably if the large amount of Maori on low incomes cared, they would have voted for the left.”

        Or maybe they felt they wouldn’t get a good deal from the left either.

        • Blue 1.2.2.1
          11 December 2011 at 1:03 pm

          $15 minimum wage and WFF extended to beneficiaries has to be better than the shit the right are serving up.

          • Colonial Viper 1.2.2.1.1
            11 December 2011 at 1:18 pm

            First $5000 tax free to all, including beneficiaries, workers and those on super is also better than a kick in the nuts.

    • Bored 1.3
      11 December 2011 at 10:42 am

      “I would be absolutely stunned if they don’t do a deal with us,”. from a man who gives used car sales people a good name. Its so bloody obvious, name your price and let us do what the f**k we want.

      • seeker 1.3.1
        11 December 2011 at 3:11 pm

        Right wing governments need high unemployment and voter apathy to thrive. In NZ ,oxygen from the Maori Party can also be added to Grinch Key’s wish list.

    • drongo 1.4
      11 December 2011 at 3:26 pm

      It’s now time to stop being nice to the Maori Party. Their stupidity can’t be tolerated now because the stakes are too high. We now need to subject the Maori Party to total derision and disdain. They’ve had long enough to shape up. They will never learn, therefore they must be removed from the landscape. See the irony in the advice finally going to Sir Jerry Mateparaea a government’s being formed: Maori advising Maori that they’re preparing to shaft Maori.

      • felix 1.4.1
        11 December 2011 at 4:30 pm

        Totally agree drongo.

        For three years we’ve given them the benefit of the doubt and tried to believe that they’re not really right-wingers, they’re supporting National for now but really they’re a left wing party that’s lost and wants to come home.

        Well fuck that, they’ve had their chance. If they support National, that means they fucking support National.

        They’re no more a friend of the left that Banks or Dunne is.

    • Vicky32 1.5
      11 December 2011 at 5:25 pm

      And how will this sit with the large amount of Maori on low incomes, the working poor and the unemployed?

      Turia and Sharples basically don’t care! They’re resigning anyway but even if they weren’t, they’ve shown their true colours. Turia is all about getting her own way, as I was told in 2008 by a family member who said to me that “Aunty” scares the living donuts out of her friends and family.

  2. LynW 2
    11 December 2011 at 7:53 am

    Places to go, people to see…the travelling Labour Road Show! Looking forward to hearing all the candidates and being amongst likeminded people.

    Matt McCarten seems to have slightly toned down his previous opinion heavily endorsing Shearer, with this column titled ‘A battle between popularity and experience’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10772324

    And what better issue to unite and mobilise the Labour Party than that highlighted in the recent landmark OECD report, Divided We Stand: Why Inequality Keeps Rising, as discussed in this article, titled ”Rich-poor gap is NZ’s shame’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10772328

    “In the space of a generation, New Zealand has become a country that many New Zealanders do not recognise or like much. If the OECD report tells us anything, it tells us that it is not enough to carry on doing what we have been doing and hope for a different outcome.”

    • Carol 2.1
      11 December 2011 at 8:09 am

      Thanks for the links. Mc Carten says this:

      Cunliffe has a lot of enemies in his caucus. His self-confidence and ambition annoys some. Frankly, I would have thought his colleagues understood these attributes are needed in spades for any leader trying to win.

      But still ends up supporting Shearer because he is easy to like and popular like John Key. Does he not realise key is about to become less popular because of his policies (and the recent election result doesn’t show THAT much support for his party), and we are facing very difficult times, requiring a very gutsy kind of leader…. not someone the guys want to chat to over a beer at the barbie!?… as highlighted by the article on the extreme inequalities in NZ.

      • kriswgtn 2.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 8:37 am

        totally…. agree

        Cunliffe all the way

        Shearer speaks well but I dont think he has that bulldog attitude
        Bulldog is wot this government needs to give it a bitch slap

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.2
        11 December 2011 at 9:15 am

        The Herald on Sunday has changed its opinion to ‘it doesn’t matter whichever David wins on Tuesday, Labour are still losers’. This is what we have to look forward to from the HoS for the next 3 years.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10772325

        • Carol 2.1.2.1
          11 December 2011 at 9:19 am

          And yet, they are not calling English and Brownlee “old and stale”.

          • newsense 2.1.2.1.1
            11 December 2011 at 10:01 am

            Or Ryall, McCully…

          • Salsy 2.1.2.1.2
            11 December 2011 at 1:05 pm

            Maybe not in the Herald but in todays Sunday Star Times Anthony Hubbard writes a full pager attacking Key and “his dull grey men” in particular Bill English for their attacks on the poor and contribution to the latest OECD report into our terrible, widening inequality gap. Titled “Smugness will be the Killer”, it contains seething paragraphs such as “Key, John Banks and Peter Dunne more than ever lean together like three drunks who would all collapse without each others suppport.. “

        • Anthony 2.1.2.2
          11 December 2011 at 10:30 am

          Who couldn’t see that coming, build up Shearer over Cunliffe then smack them both down.

          • RobM 2.1.2.2.1
            11 December 2011 at 12:00 pm

            Yep. Get the soft option, knock him down, paint the replacement as a hater & wrecker.

            They’ll have a harder time taking out Cunliffe and if they do then Brand Shearer will only face a year or so’s scrutiny and he may have a chance of out-nicing that nice Mr Key.

            It’s time to get combative, it’s time for Cunliffe.

            Mallard is Labour’s Haig and a good chunk of the shadow cavalry should be put out to pasture.

        • Olwyn 2.1.2.3
          11 December 2011 at 11:26 am

          This should ring warning bells about placing too much trust in the traction to be gained from David Shearer’s back story and his instant popularity, having been the focus of the public eye for about two weeks. John Key’s “popularity” is backed by powerful people with a vested interest in its being maintained. As many have noted here,he is treated by the media like a protected species: the myth must be maintained and counterexamples either ignored or explained away.

          No Labour leader is going to get that treatment, and I have even wondered if the endorsements that come from Farrar, Slater etc, may be contingent on the belief that they have already got the material they need to burst the Shearer myth before it takes hold. It does not take much – a decontextualised employment dispute, a prudent decision that can be recast as cowardly, a brave decision recast as reckless…the possibilities are endless. But even if this is not true, there has to be more than popularity to a Labour leader. The ability to rise to the challenge and withstand criticism is probably a more valuable asset at this stage.

          • Anthony 2.1.2.3.1
            11 December 2011 at 11:47 am

            Or the ability to actually change the ways voters understand their world, instead of just giving up and playing to a superficial populism.

            Most people know something isn’t quite right, and certain things aren’t working as the evidence is all around them at the moment – they are actually experiencing it. a Labour leader needs to articulate clearly and simply why this is and how we can change it instead of treating them like stupid drones.

            There must be something occurring in the public mind if even Obama is risking channeling it.

            People automatically like Shearer, but I think Cunliffe has something deeper, the ability to actually win and convince people because he speaks with conviction and passion.

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.2.3.2
            11 December 2011 at 12:10 pm

            It does not take much – a decontextualised employment dispute, a prudent decision that can be recast as cowardly, a brave decision recast as reckless…the possibilities are endless.

            An example where lives were lost due to a communications problem or misunderstanding at the UN would be classic.

            A replay of John Kerry being ‘swift-boated’.

            • Anthony 2.1.2.3.2.1
              11 December 2011 at 12:24 pm

              Will they risk being that overt? Will they just go for the long game of painting him as a nice guy but ineffectual and bureaucratic?

              It doesn’t work with John Key because he has the concrete result of his wealth which is fairly convincing proof of being effective to many, but for humanitarian work the results are way more ambiguous.

              • Olwyn …
                11 December 2011 at 1:01 pm

                It doesn’t work for Key, not because of his wealth, but because his mythical popularity serves various powerful interests, who need him for things to go a certain way, and whose noses will be out of joint if they do not. He is on the side of the fence where a hollow popularity works, because those that could undermine it know which side of the bread has butter on it.

                The people whose noses are out of joint when things do not go well for Labour are not that powerful, except where their numbers are large enough to pose a threat. Cuddly popularity does not get you to that position, but commitment, conviction and resilience just might. It is true that Len Brown managed to get he mayoralty through personal popularity, but it was at a time when Rodney Hide’s supercity was hated, and came largely from his natural ability to connect with people, rather than his life being turned into a grand narrative.

                • Anthony …
                  11 December 2011 at 1:29 pm

                  I agree completely, but while the money=worth thing is the dominant ideology he’s fairly bullet-proof on that front.

                  Len also benefited by the real fear of South and West that they would be left in the dust of any Supercity so he managed to unite a plurality of outsider interests under a single idea.

          • drongo 2.1.2.3.3
            11 December 2011 at 3:41 pm

            It was surprising to see how public the leadership contest was made and thought it might’ve been detrimental to Labour by highlighting factions present in any caucus but which are normally hidden under the shroud that is caucus. But it’s been a blessing in disguise because we’ve realised that Emperor Shearer’s got no clothes. Bloody lucky, let’s hope enough people have realised in time.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.4
          11 December 2011 at 12:43 pm

          This is what we have to look forward to from the HoS for the next 3 years.

          So, no difference from what we’ve had for the last 3+ years then.

        • oftenpuzzled 2.1.2.5
          11 December 2011 at 6:17 pm

          how do you think the left especially Labour needs to deal with the media to get a fairer and less judgemental hearing? It’s apparently extremely difficult by all counts

      • mikesh 2.1.3
        11 December 2011 at 12:45 pm

        Matthew Hooton said something significant on Citizen A a couple of nights ago. He said that Cunliffe must not be given the finance portfolio (in the event, presumably, of Shearer becoming PM). The right seem terrified Cunliffe will take the country too far to the left.

        • Anthony 2.1.3.1
          11 December 2011 at 12:59 pm

          David Cunliffe has the ability to communicate to people how economies work and how they work within it – and also what they should expect from it. They would be totally terrified of him doing it, half their power rests on people being ignorant/indifferent.

      • seeker 2.1.4
        11 December 2011 at 4:03 pm

        LynW. thanks for the link and comment@ 7.32am

        I too thought, “McCarten seems to have slightly toned down his previous opinion heavily endorsing Shearer,”….but found this was not so.
        In fact he subtly undermined at David Cunliffe, and Nanaia, throughout his article. while continuing to spreading his ‘support Shearer’ propaganda.

        I have often thought that McCarten has ‘failed politician syndrome’ whose symptoms display as undermining the Labour party and anything that maybe good for it at every possible opportunity. He is intelligent enough to know that Cunliffe is the better man to lead Labour at this present point in time, but he is also clever enough to know that by pushing Shearer, he is shafting Labour.

      • David 2.1.5
        11 December 2011 at 5:22 pm

        Funny and interesting how both left and right fear Cunliffe. Matt McCarten this morning did the odd thing of continuing to support a Labour right candidate, even though most of that candidate’s credibility as an upfront leader has been catastrophically undermined for anyone who has seen him in action this week. McCarten of course wants to push Labour to the right to give his party breathing space. What is interesting about Cunliffe is how, he as a genuine left candidate, appeals to people who are looking for business sense and a bit of the mongrel when it comes to the attack. No wonder the Nats and the Left Left are pulling the kitchen sink off the wall!

      • prism 2.1.6
        11 December 2011 at 8:25 pm

        Carol quotes McCarten –
        “Cunliffe has a lot of enemies in his caucus. His self-confidence and ambition annoys some. Frankly, I would have thought his colleagues understood these attributes are needed in spades for any leader trying to win.”

        Reminds me of an interesting assessment of NZs by a NZ living in Berlin. She says that NZs don’t speak up assertively. She gave a simple example of herself being offered a ride home which she turned down for no good reason until finally was assured it was OK and accepted. Says that NZ find Germans seem aggressive but are really just being straightforward.
        I have also read that Israelis find that we are reluctant to say it like it is. So perhaps the Labourites like the soft-spoken approach that Goff adopted. The trouble is I think that lost us the election. So let Cunliffe shine for pete’s sake. By the way did anyone see Steve Braunias column on David Shearer. Bit much, but perhaps he has hit a tender spot.

      • drongo 2.1.7
        11 December 2011 at 10:37 pm

        The more I look at Shearer’s eyes the more I think he’s Key’s long lost brother. Shearer will deliberately take Labour down the road of right-wingers and nasty bastards. I just can’t trust him.

  3. Carol 3
    11 December 2011 at 7:58 am

    And so it continues…. more high paid jobs handed out to the well-off by the government in order to organise the many on struggle street. And what does Gerry the Hut say?…

    “It is what it is…”!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-earthquake/6121245/Quake-assessors-wage-bill-144m

    Figures obtained by the Sunday Star-Times show the Earthquake Commission spent $144,528,907 on contracted assessors to inspect damage from September 4, 2010, until September 30 this year. The commission said it contracted 814 assessors in that time, 95 from Australia, meaning the $145.5m bill averaged out to more than $177,000 per assessor in just over a year.

    Although the amount includes food, flights and accommodation costs for out-of-town assessors, it was much larger than the standard salary expectation.
    […]
    Reverend Mike Coleman from the Wider Earthquake Communities Action Network, WeCan, is disgusted by the figure.

    “I think it’s appalling but I’m not surprised. We’ve been battling for little, small amounts for people and here we’ve got the commission spending vast amounts. It just seems unbelievable, really,” he said.

    Coleman said the assessors knew they were on to a good thing. “I’ve talked to two contractors and one was very concerned. He said he was getting $5000 clear in his bank account every week. He said if that ever comes out the whole thing’s going to be quite a major story.

    “But no one who is getting that kind of money is going to blow the whistle. Why would you if you’re getting $5000 every week? $144m is phenomenal.”

    To the barracades!

    There is going to be soooo much to protest about with this government, milking everything on the back of a slim minority, and slithering away from responsibility and accountability.

    “It is what it is”!!!!!!!

    • LynW 3.1
      11 December 2011 at 8:20 am

      +10 again!
      I felt exactly the same disgust when I read that article, just couldn’t put it into words. You have done so beautifully. To the barricades indeed! How absolutely out of touch this man is! Have the people earning that money no conscience either? Look forward to the inquiry.

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 9:42 am

        And yet the people of Christchurch didn’t return Brendon Burns to office. Gratitude eh.

        • Jackal 3.1.1.1
          11 December 2011 at 10:59 am

          Something fishy going on there.

          • Bill 3.1.1.1.1
            11 December 2011 at 11:15 am

            Double dipping on posted voting forms to old address at one booth and last minute special vote on the back of a new address at a different booth type thing?

            • vto 3.1.1.1.1.1
              11 December 2011 at 11:24 am

              Gerry Brownlie’s response to this is in line wiht previous utterings such as the one regarding Jenny Shipley et al getting $1,000/day because Brownlie “thought that was appropriate”.

              EQC assessor pay rates are widely regarded as the biggest rort in town.

              Perhaps someone could explain why a dipstick assessor (and trust me they aint nobody special – they are very average people doing a job they have never done before. Anyone can do it) gets paid $75 per hour and the people will actually do the important work of repairs (fully qualified trades, with multi-year apprenticeships and the like, plus years of experience) get $45 per hour??????????????

              Anyone? Brownlie? How does that work?

              Typical governmental arrogance and bullshit. It goes on under every single government.

              to be or not to be that is the question – whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of struggles and by opposing end them….

              • Draco T Bastard …
                11 December 2011 at 12:54 pm

                …people will actually do the important work of repairs (fully qualified trades, with multi-year apprenticeships and the like, plus years of experience) get $45 per hour?

                They don’t get $45/hour though. They’d be lucky to get $25/hour. The $45 is what the contractor (usually a labour hire firm that knows nothing about building) gets.

                Typical governmental arrogance and bullshit.

                It’s typical of capitalism and the skewed values that it produces. The administrators and owners are viewed as being worth more than the people who actually create the wealth.

          • prism 3.1.1.1.2
            11 December 2011 at 8:31 pm

            Nikki Wagener on the radio explained her win by the shifting of so many Labour supporters and looks forward to further election wins which will probably happen as many low income people won’t have a place or a job in Christchurch.

    • seeker 3.2
      11 December 2011 at 8:34 pm

      @ Carol 7.58am

      $145.5m bill maybe be okey dokey and ‘is what it is ” for Gerry but for Peter Dunney ‘it is what it is is too much’ when it is $10,000 dollars and could save thousands in health bills as well as lives.

      http://www.3news.co.nz/Government-accused-of-alcohol-review-cover-up/tabid/419/articleID/236136/Default.aspx

      “The Government is tonight being accused of a cover-up – burying major research that shows overwhelming public support for alcohol reform.

      The research, which was most comprehensive ever conducted of New Zealanders’ attitudes towards alcohol, was undertaken to inform the review of liquor laws but it was never made available to the politicians involved in that process because Associate Health Minister Peter Dunne put a stop to it……..

      The Ministry of Health sent the draft results to Peter Dunne saying it would cost $10,000 for the report to be finalised and peer reviewed.

      But the associate minister’s office put a stop to it — saying the $10,000 could be better spent elsewhere – and so the report was never published.”

      Suppressing an important report like this should be a sackable offence. It will definitely have affected the select committee’s law making decisions, which in turn could detrimentally affect lives.

  4. Salsy 4
    11 December 2011 at 9:27 am

    So there is a bit of a movement toward a petition to stop asset sales – over at http://www.averagekiwi.com/?p=674 some interesting discussions – Firstly Jeanette Fitsimmons weighs in with:

    Great initiative, but why not use the process that forces them legally to hold such a referendum? there is legislation setting this up. You have to have the text approved by the clerk of the House of Parliament. I don’t think there is any provision for signatures to be electronic. You have to get the signatures of 10% of eligible voters (from memory – check this – it’s around 300,000.) They check random batches against the electoral roll and if people can’t be found there they are struck off. then a similar proportion of all signatures are struck off. So it’s an arduous and meticulous process but the benefit is that legally they then HAVE to hold that referendum. This process would hold things up for a term of parliament. I’m willing to help if people want to do this.

    But also in the comments section I found this…

    As someone who was approached by a trader at Craigs Investement Group (the company who have been given the right to set the value of, and sell the assets) and offered undervalued shares in the first round of sales, which I could then sell in the subsequent rounds for approximately 100% profit (this estimate came directly from John Key himself, according to the trader) to overseas interests, I think the title probably hits the mark.

    Regards,
    Dr Matthew Brown

  5. Afewknowthetruth 5
    11 December 2011 at 9:53 am

    I have rewatched Mike Ruppert’s Portland 9/11 2011 speech:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbiyCldxG8s

    As he said on several occasions in the speech, until you change the way money works you change nothing

    He also highliighted something else many of us have been saying for a long time: so-called Chrisitans have adopted the biblical concept of dominion over the Earth to mean the right to plunder and destroy it (rather than be good custodians of it).

    What MR omitted to say is that until you change the energy system, i.e. corporations looting fossil fuel resources and selling them to society for society to burn, you change nothing.

    Nothing will change for the better until those three fundamental issues are tackled.

    Whether the Maori Party sell out to corporate greed again or not will determine how much contempt the leaders of the Maori Party will attract, and perhaps whether they will be known for posterity as traitors, along with all the other peddlers of neo-liberal ‘shock doctrine’ economics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
    .

    .

    • oftenpuzzled 5.1
      11 December 2011 at 10:43 am

      It seems a red herring to me that Iwi should have first option to buy shares in our power companies they are still in private hands and when the going gets tough they will sell, surely, unless there is some clause which will put controls around their purchase and that is highly unlikely

      • Descendant Of Smith 5.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 1:54 pm

        Selling to iwi seems to me just a similar ploy as paying your workers low wages so you can get the wages back by being a landlord or a lender.

        Payout treaty money and then get it back by selling a power company they already own as taxpayers.

        I’ve got a bridge in Auckland I can sell if you are interested.

        • drongo 5.1.1.1
          12 December 2011 at 4:19 am

          Key wants to keep the bridge so he can give his permission to the Maori Party to fly the Maori flag from it on Waitangi Day in return for support for asset sales – although he’ll also want to charge them rent. Still a good deal for Pita, though, and his “small gains for Maori” claptrap. Good to see Pita’s got such high aspirations for Maori. Complete sell-out. Off with his head.

  6. Afewknowthetruth 6
    11 December 2011 at 10:35 am

    The Most Important News Story of the Day/Millennium

    ‘The most important piece of news yesterday, this week, this month, and this year was a new set of statistics released yesterday by the Global Carbon Project. It showed that carbon emissions from our planet had increased 5.9 percent between 2009 and 2010. In fact, it was arguably among the most important pieces of data in the last, oh, three centuries, since according to the New York Times it represented “almost certainly the largest absolute jump in any year since the Industrial Revolution.”

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/12/05-8

    ‘The CEO of Exxon gets up every morning and goes to work changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere. No one has ever done anything as radical as that, not in all of human history. And he and his ilk spend heavily on campaigns to make sure no one stops them–the US Chamber of Commerce gave more money than the DNC and the RNC last cycle, and 94% of it went to climate deniers.

    Corporate power has occupied the atmosphere.’

    • Bored 6.1
      11 December 2011 at 10:54 am

      I am a bit torn between some conflicting viewpoints on global warming and resource depletion:

      * the lets tax things/ send market signals so things will come right…..standard neo lib bollock speak for the market knows best and people will do what is “right” as seen by price discovery.
      * the “resources are not accounted for” properly viewpoint that says if a true and fair price had to be paid to exploit them it would not happen…yeah right, maybe more slowly.

      Ultimately what we are doing to the planet cannot be enumerated in money and its corollaries (market price discovery, actual value etc etc )) as they are human constructs that ignore some absolutes imposed by the planet. Stopping global warming and resource depletion is ultimately down to doing the right thing, making individual moral judgements. In this we have singularly failed as a species.

      • Afewknowthetruth 6.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 11:21 am

        Bored.

        ‘In this we have singularly failed as a species.’

        I know this is not technically correct but it does seem to me that humanity has divided into three distinct species:

        1. a tiny minority who only see resources and people as things to exploit for their own benefit/pleasure and don’t give a damn about anyone else (not even their own progeny)

        2. a tiny minority who want to live within the Earth’s ecological limits

        3. the vast majority who don’t want to think about any of the things that actually matter.

        ‘human constructs that ignore some absolutes imposed by the planet’ Yes, that sums up the present economic system and the present parliamentary process.

    • Lanthanide 6.2
      11 December 2011 at 11:20 am

      Yes, lets blame the CEO of Exxon because it’s all entirely his fault that he enables us to pollute the atmosphere.

      That’s the problem with global warming: until the average person takes responsibility for their actions, nothing will change.

      • Pete George 6.2.1
        11 December 2011 at 11:27 am

        Same with everything related to consumerism, it’s the consumers that keep things going as they are.

        • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1
          11 December 2011 at 11:30 am

          Consumerism is a symptom of societal and corporate emphasis, not a primary cause.

        • Afewknowthetruth 6.2.1.2
          11 December 2011 at 12:05 pm

          PG

          Are you saying that a chimpanzee which is trained to perform tricks in a circus is responsible for its own actions?

          People living in western societies are trained by society from a very young age to behave in a particular manner and have particular opnions:

          Key componenets of the training system include the belief that:

          1. industrialism is normal (it is not; it is a gross abberration)

          2, consumption is good (it is not; it is a major source of problems)

          4. those in authority know best (they don’t; most of them are poorly educated and are self-serving)

          5. the system is benevolent and is taking humanity toward some kind of nirvana (it is not: it is rapidly detroying the habitability of the planet we live on)

          From the comments you have made over recent months it is very clear that you have been brainwashed very effectively and don’t know that the cage you are living in has a door which is unlocked.

      • Colonial Viper 6.2.2
        11 December 2011 at 11:28 am

        Its the capitalist system of maximising shareholder returns (even at maximum cost to other parts of society) which is the issue.

        Individuals “taking responsibility” is one part, but a largely ineffective part unless focus is turned on to the bigger system as well.

      • Afewknowthetruth 6.2.3
        11 December 2011 at 11:37 am

        Lanth.

        Don’t forget that the CEO of Exxon (or Shell or BP or dozens of other corporations, including many in NZ) ensure that a large portion of the corporations profits are funnelled into keeping the general public misinformed and consuming. Of course, he/she is just doing what the board of directors require him/her to do, i.e. lie continuously.

        Central government is culpable, since it promulgates misinformation designed to keep the general populace consuming the future.

        By the same token, the CEOs of city and district councils are highly culpable in the destruction of the future, since they generate and sign off community plans which are full of misinformation designed to keep the general populace dumbed-down and consuming. City and district councillors are culpable because they endorse the bullshit churned out by council CEOs.

        The whole system is utterly corrupt and utterly inept, and will bring about absolute catastrophe for coming generations, commencing around 2015 in most places.

  7. Jackal 7
    11 December 2011 at 10:52 am

    Charter school surprise

    There is something very wrong about announcing a major policy just after the election. People weren’t given a chance to make a decision based on proposed policy, which in some ways is even worse than a broken election promise.

    […]

    Act is claiming that legislation already exists that has given the government a mandate to set up a trial charter school system. Let’s have a look at exactly what the legislation states…

    • Bored 7.1
      11 December 2011 at 10:57 am

      Remember Roger and his “lets keep them off balance and just do it” theory that followed Leninist revolutionary practices to the letter. These people dont give a toss for democratic process, Key and his crew knew if they did this term one they would be thrown out, they know they will be next time so get ready for a lot of corporatist and extreme right wing nasties to just appear, and keep appearing.

    • ianmac 7.2
      11 December 2011 at 11:39 am

      I am against Charter Schools. But around the late 80s when the Education Act was being written, that was a feature. That is that a group of likeminded people could set up a special nature school which would be at least partly state funded. It was also said that where State Schools were lying empty the rooms would be available for their use. It did get written in and I wonder if some of those religious schools currently running did so under that setup. I heard some teachers wondering if they could set up a breakaway school to avoid the worst aspects of the Ministry of Education, but they didn’t do it.

      But the suspicion around so-called “Charter” schools may be because of the lack of trust developed over the craziness of National Standards, Anne Tolley, and suspicion of John Banks. If he says its good, then you can bet it is bad for most people.

      • Jackal 7.2.1
        11 December 2011 at 11:52 am

        That’s an interesting point concerning existing legislation regarding charter schools taking over empty schools. Perhaps this is a reason for National going against the wishes of many communities and closing down schools… so that they’re available for the charter regime.

        John Banks will have Ronald McDonald teaching kids about the benefits of processed food before we know it or perhaps Destiny Church ensuring kids learn of the god like status of Brian Tamaki. They will be chaffing at the bit to get their hands on more government funding.

  8. oftenpuzzled 8
    11 December 2011 at 11:29 am

    The Euro debate is confusing for an economic pleb like myself but ‘The slog’ generally clarifies aspects. I wonder what we should be taking on board from this post re the issue of debt? http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2011/12/10/fiscal-analysis-why-money-no-longer-just-talks/

  9. Draco T Bastard 9
    11 December 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Robert Fisk: Bankers are the dictators of the West

    It seems to me that the reporting of the collapse of capitalism has reached a new low which even the Middle East cannot surpass for sheer unadulterated obedience to the very institutions and Harvard “experts” who have helped to bring about the whole criminal disaster.

    The real comparison, needless to say, has been dodged by Western reporters, so keen to extol the anti-dictator rebellions of the Arabs, so anxious to ignore protests against “democratic” Western governments, so desperate to disparage these demonstrations, to suggest that they are merely picking up on the latest fad in the Arab world. The truth is somewhat different. What drove the Arabs in their tens of thousands and then their millions on to the streets of Middle East capitals was a demand for dignity and a refusal to accept that the local family-ruled dictators actually owned their countries.

    And that is the true parallel in the West. The protest movements are indeed against Big Business – a perfectly justified cause – and against “governments”. What they have really divined, however, albeit a bit late in the day, is that they have for decades bought into a fraudulent democracy: they dutifully vote for political parties – which then hand their democratic mandate and people’s power to the banks and the derivative traders and the rating agencies, all three backed up by the slovenly and dishonest coterie of “experts” from America’s top universities and “think tanks”, who maintain the fiction that this is a crisis of globalisation rather than a massive financial con trick foisted on the voters.

    Time to get rid of the elected dictators and turn to real democracy. A democracy where the people have the say rather than the corporations and the greedy few.

  10. Afewknowthetruth 10
    11 December 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Following on from my previous comment, we now see that the so-called safe target level of a 2 Celsius rise in average temperature is actually not safe at all and that we are so far off course we are bound to miss the target anyway, whatever the outcome of the talkfest in Durban.

    Indeed, we are well on track for the 4 Celsius rise in average temperature I have been alluding to for several years.

    ‘For today’s inconvenient truths (ahem), we turn to Kevin Anderson, a professor of energy and climate change who was, until recently, director of the U.K.’s leading climate research institution, the Tyndall Energy Program.’

    ‘Sadly, even that cold comfort is not available to us. The thing is, if 2 degrees C is extremely dangerous, 4 degrees C is absolutely catastrophic. In fact, according to the latest science, says Anderson, “a 4 degrees C future is incompatible with an organized global community, is likely to be beyond ‘adaptation’, is devastating to the majority of ecosystems, and has a high probability of not being stable.” [leads to positive feedbacks that take the temperature even higher]

    http://www.grist.org/climate-change/2011-12-05-the-brutal-logic-of-climate-change

    Of course, the current climate chaos will not become an utter catastrophe for another couple of decades, so there is plenty of time for global corporations to loot and destroy what remains of the natural world so that a few greedy ‘apes’ can live beyond the ecological limits of the planet for a little while longer.

    • johnm 10.1
      11 December 2011 at 1:13 pm

      Right AFKTT
      Us baby boomers perhaps the greediest generation ever to have lived on this Planet will be long dead when the Climate really TSHTF big time. This is a form of maximising profits in the short term and socialising losses down the pipeline onto future generations!

      I’m not smug I actually find the implications frightening to the extreme.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 1:21 pm

        I personally don’t think climate change is going to be a big deal for another 50+ years.

        Energy depletion on the other hand is likely to massively disrupt ‘present economic arrangements’ (to steal a phrase from AFKTT) in the next 10 years. Or 5 years.

        • Afewknowthetruth 10.1.1.1
          11 December 2011 at 1:54 pm

          CV

          “I personally don’t think climate change is going to be a big deal for another 50+ years.’

          That is a very odd thing to write in view of the fact that climate change is already a big deal and the linked article -from one of the world’s top climate researchers- indicates a severe problems within in a couple of decades.

          Yes, oil depletion will hit hard soon, But abrupt climate change trumps everything else (except all-out nuclear war or an asteroid impact).

          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1
            11 December 2011 at 10:31 pm

            So its a matter of timing.

            Personally I think that the industrial and economic collapse you predict to reach a crescendo in the next 3-4 years (and which I believe is driven by peak debt and peak oil) will sort out our population concerns, energy/resource usage and GHG emissions fairly rapidly.

  11. RedBaron 11
    11 December 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Pure flight of fantasy this one.
    Once the funds for charter schools are known (and they may be generous) how about setting up a “trust or cooperative” that includes teacher’s unions, boards of trustee representatives etc etc. among others and bases itself on the current rules and standards in the state sector..
    It offers to act as the umbrella group for “charter schools” that wish to preserve the status quo [without national standards as that will free up some money] throughout the country. All the current primary schools are invited to join it and the relevant bits of the Ministry move over to administer it. This preserves the national state school structure until this lot go. Of course any such nationwide co-operative will measure all the children together, not school by school, so it would be hard to deny funding to some sections and not others so long as overall performance remains at the high OECD standards, and indeed the “contract” could have this as one of the performance markers.
    So we would then have privatisation, non profit making, cooperation, democracy, something for everyone.

    • ianmac 11.1
      11 December 2011 at 2:05 pm

      It offers to act as the umbrella group for “charter schools” that wish to preserve the status quo [without national standards as that will free up some money] throughout the country.
      Great idea Red Baron. And all the 6 State schools in our town could become Charter Schools with all that autonomy promised by Key Banks.
      What a hoot and must be possible on the basis of information so far.

  12. RedBaron 12
    11 December 2011 at 1:36 pm

    And Thank You.

    As it is almost the holiday season I was thinking of those who had made my life more enjoyable over the last year.
    I would like to say a great big personal thank you to all the people who run and maintain this site where I can hang out to keep up with all the news the papers won’t print, gives me a chance to voice my opinions and just keep up with a like minded community. A little island of brightness.

    So the best of the season to you all and may the coming year be a happy and positive time.

  13. Penny Bright 13
    11 December 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Seen this?

    Protest ‘CAMPS’ have an arguably long and internationally significant history.

    eg: The Greenham Common Women’s Peace Camp, lasted for 19 years – from 1981 – 2000.

    http://www.greenhamwpc.org.uk/

    “Greenham Common Women’s Peace Camp
    1981 – 2000

    LINKS: Commemorative and Historic Site Non – Violent Women – v – The Crown Prerogative

    On the 5th September 1981, the Welsh group “Women for Life on Earth” arrived on Greenham Common, Berkshire, England. They marched from Cardiff with the intention of challenging, by debate, the decision to site 96 Cruise nuclear missiles there. On arrival they delivered a letter to the Base Commander which among other things stated ‘We fear for the future of all our children and for the future of the living world which is the basis of all life’.

    When their request for a debate was ignored they set up a Peace Camp just outside the fence surrounding RAF Greenham Common Airbase. They took the authorities by surprise and set the tone for a most audacious and lengthy protest that lasted 19years.

    Within 6 months the camp became known as the Women’s Peace Camp and gained recognition both nationally and internationally by drawing attention to the base with well publicised imaginitive gatherings.

    This unique initiative threw a spotlight on ‘Cruise’ making it a national and international political issue throughout the 80s and early 90s.

    The presence of women living outside an operational nuclear base 24 hours a day, brought a new perspective to the peace movement – giving it leadership and a continuous focus. At a time when the USA and the USSR were competing for nuclear superiority in Europe, the Women’s Peace Camp on Greenham Common was seen as an edifying influence.

    The commitment to non-violence and non-alignment gave the protest an authority that was difficult to dismiss – journalists from almost every corner of the globe found their way to the camp and reported on the happenings and events taking place there. ………….”

    _____________________________________________________

    ” Bylaws Case
    Dates of Creation 1985-1990
    Reference Number(s) GB 106 5GCW/A/02
    Physical Description 2 folders
    Scope and Content

    Correspondence, court papers and related notes regarding litigation begun in 1986 by Jean Hutchinson and Georgina Smith, (both GCW protestors) as a challenge to Bylaws introduced by the Ministry of Defence, 25 Apr 1985.

    This legislation, introduced under the 1892 Military Lands Act, restricted movement in and around Greenham Common in an attempt to curb GCW protests, thus criminalising many protestors. The legal challenge was based on the grounds that the 1892 Act made provision for Bylaws on common land, provided that no rights of Common existed on the land, which was not the case with Greenham Common.

    Over the course of four years, this case progressed from Magistrate’s to Crown to High Courts, eventually reaching the House of Lords. The Bylaws were pronounced invalid by the House of Lords on 12 Jul 1990. ”

    Penny Bright
    [email deleted]

    • Renderer 13.1
      11 December 2011 at 6:01 pm

      Hey Penny do ya prostitute the same rubbish on every blog is the country?

      • Jackal 13.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 7:04 pm

        The country is a blog? Who would have thunk it.

      • deuto 13.1.2
        11 December 2011 at 9:29 pm

        Hi Renderer – new here are you? Haven’t seen you on other blogs either; but perhaps you inhabit ones that I choose not to.

        In terms of Penny, i do not necessarily agree with some of what Penny stands for – BUT I have come to have tremendous respect for Penny in terms of her strength of belief in what she believes in, her ability to research and present information to support that, her willingness to continue to stand up for her beliefs etcs against opposition and disappointment. So go Penny!

        In terms of you, Renderer – who are you and what do you stand for?

      • Jum 13.1.3
        11 December 2011 at 9:50 pm

        Renderer,

        You twit; that woman has and is doing more than most New Zealanders in safeguarding our precious resources.

        Penny – Monsanto, 10 years ago, was aiming to control the global water supply through the same lobbying that got it so much power over the seeds futures. Any updates on them?

    • seeker 13.2
      11 December 2011 at 10:12 pm

      Well discovered Penny. The women of Greenham Common were remarkable. In those days there were many ignorant and childish chauvinistic insults hurled at the women. It is amazing to find a left over remnant from that time in Renderer, who would be termed in those days, as I am doing now, a male chauvinist pig and told to return to his sty.

  14. felix 14
    11 December 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Hey the maori Party have three votes and ACT has one, right?

    So the maori Party would be expecting to get three times as much as ACT got out of National, right?

    • Carol 14.1
      11 December 2011 at 4:11 pm

      Well, they have an agreement on confidence and supply, with no need to support any government laws.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6122505/Key-to-announce-Maori-Party-deal

      They get a committee on poverty…. chaired by Blinglish? And some baubles of office.

      • Blue 14.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 4:16 pm

        I thought Sharples was getting rolled by Te Ururoa Flavell?

      • felix 14.1.2
        11 December 2011 at 4:24 pm

        C & S but no requirement to vote for other govt bills – isn’t that exactly what ACT gave too?

        • Carol 14.1.2.1
          11 December 2011 at 5:50 pm

          I dunno. But they give a superficially softer face to a government, that already has the coalition deal to pass asset sales and other anti-worker, anti-poor nasties.

          And it gives the government certainty of office if one of their NactUFnumbers falls by the wayside for some reason. Not worth the ability for the Maori Party to oppose stuff, and to have nice committees, which will be held in check by Blinglish.

          • felix 14.1.2.1.1
            11 December 2011 at 8:11 pm

            Yeah, but seeing as they’re providing three times as many C&S votes as ACT, I’d expect them to get significantly more than ACT in terms of policy concessions.

            If not, they’re suckers and doormats.

            Shit, with the mP on board Key could tell Banks to feck off if he wanted to, then he wouldn’t have to put up with all that nasty right-wing MMP-enabled policy that he really, really doesn’t want to enact.

      • mik e 14.1.3
        11 December 2011 at 10:55 pm

        Every body should get $900 a week to pay of their mortgage so they can use their own income to convert their farm to a dairy farm.

  15. ianmac 15
    11 December 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Maori Party has signed up to pander to the John Key Party.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10772529
    “Developing Whanau Ora, a Ministerial Committee on Poverty and a new focus for Te Puni Kokiri are the centre-pieces of the National Party-Maori Party confidence and supply agreement.

    It also allows the Maori Party to vote for legislation on a policy-by-policy basis, meaning it is free to oppose National’s policy to partially sell state assets.”

    Well. Be interesting to see the degree of support for the MP continuing.

  16. David 16
    11 December 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Funny and interesting how both left and right fear Cunliffe. Matt McCarten this morning did the odd thing of continuing to support a Labour right candidate, even though most of that candidate’s credibility as an upfront leader has been undermined by anyone who has seen him in action this week. McCarten of course wants to push Labour to the right to give his party breathing space. What is interesting about Cunliffe is how, he as a genuine left candidate, appeals to people who are looking for business sense and a bit of the mongrel when it comes to the attack. No wonder the Nats and the Left Left are pulling the kitchen sink off the wall!

    • just saying 16.1
      11 December 2011 at 6:54 pm

      “McCarten of course wants to push Labour to the right to give his party breathing space”

      Yeah, that’s what he wants, more space on the left – cos it’s soooo crowded over here.

      • David 16.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 7:27 pm

        Dont quite get your point Just saying: sorry: explain??

        • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1
          11 December 2011 at 7:37 pm

          Labour’s not left enough to count as left.

          • David 16.1.1.1.1
            11 December 2011 at 9:54 pm

            Both Cunliffe and Robertson look to me like centre left to just plain left candidates with a good reach to the further left in a serious number of policy areas (which makes it odd Robertson is lined up with Shearer, who is by my estimation centre, or Labour right faction). Does any of this count, just saying? Stretch, it’s worth it!! 🙂

  17. Vicky32 17
    11 December 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Here it is, the bad news…
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10772529
    (I suspect I am not the first to post this, but I haven’t finished reading the thread yet).
     

  18. Jackal 18
    11 December 2011 at 6:24 pm

    Karl Du Fresne – Asshole of the Week Award

    It appears that the right wingers didn’t like the documentary Inside Child Poverty all that much. There has even been a formal complaint to the Electoral Commission about the program. They’re obviously a bit ticked off that the excellent doco told the truth so close to an election…

    • Afewknowthetruth 18.1
      11 December 2011 at 7:43 pm

      Jackal

      Karl Du Fresne is small fry compared to Arshole of the Decade, Chris De Freitas, who when at the University of Auckland School of Environment was promoting the digging up and burning of coal.

      When I challenged the Vice Chancellors Office over insanity of what de Freitas was teaching there was the expected closing of the ranks.

      http://www.desmogblog.com/chris-de-freitas

      Gotta keep looting and polluting to pay the salaries climate change denialist academics.

      http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=International_Climate_Science_Coalition

      NZ society is riddled with corruption and lies.

      • Jasper 18.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 8:39 pm

        You should take a look here and learn with facts

        • Afewknowthetruth 18.1.1.1
          11 December 2011 at 9:06 pm

          Jasper

          A fairly typical response from someone who is scientifically illiterate and dosn’t understand the first thing about any of it. We go over this same ground, week after week and month after month and still the same old nonsense about the Earth entering an ice age gets promulgated. (Of course the global coporations that sponsor this gartbage are laughing their heads off at the gullibility of the average climate change denier.)

          More snow is an indication of warming not of cooling. Warmer oceans increase the rate of evaporation and therefore of precipitation -higher vapour pressure and all that- which is exactly whet we have witnessed over recent years.

          The warmer the Earth becomes the greater the energy in the system and the more energy there is to be disipated via high winds and storms etc. (as I wrote over a decade ago).

          The thing about misinformation is that is posesses the character of the mythological Hydra. It make no difference how many times it’s ‘head’ is chopped off, it sprouts another one very quickly.

          People believe what they want to believe and disregard the facts, as I wrote a few days ago (Simon and Garfunkel).

          • Jasper 18.1.1.1.1
            14 December 2011 at 6:16 pm

            So you say..

            The world will never cool. Instead it’ll just keep getting warmer and warmer and flood us all. Nek minnut Kevin Costner will be pushing Waterworld on us again saying ‘told you so’

            Right.

            Next.

  19. Afewknowthetruth 19
    11 December 2011 at 7:10 pm

    McFlock

    What a pity you cannot distinguish between ‘collapse of current economic arrangements’ (over the period 2011-2014) and ‘absolute catastrophe for coming generations’ (commencing around 2015).

    Just think, if you could undertand basic English we could have an intelligent discussion.

    • McFlock 19.1
      11 December 2011 at 7:48 pm

      so the catastrophe doesn’t start with a collapse, and the collapse isn’t a catastrophe?
       
      Maybe if you were a bit more specific about your scaremongering, you wouldn’t need to index your prophecies by synonym.

      • Afewknowthetruth 19.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 8:15 pm

        McFlock

        No, collapse and catastrophe are not necessarilty synonymous. In fact the collapse of present economic arrangements could well be very liberating for most people on this planet. However, the collapse of the environment will be catastrophic.

        As I said, if you understood basic English we could have an intelligent discussion.

        Unfortunately, you have a great tendency to include emotive catchphrases in your comments. I suppose, if you had been around in the late 1930s you would have decribed Winston Churchill’s timely warnings about the coming war as ‘scaremongering’.

        People who understand what underway and what is on the horizon realise that really is little hope for uniformed fuckwits.

        It has always been that way throughout history.

        I guess you understand what you mean by the latter portion of your comment: ‘wouldn’t need to index your prophecies by synonym.’

        It makes no sense to me.

        • McFlock 19.1.1.1
          11 December 2011 at 8:29 pm

          Here’s a thought – be specific when you talk about a “collapse”, or a “catatrophe”, or any of the other predictions you make, given that they are all apparently seperate events with different due dates. 
           
          Assuming the catastrophe you refer to is environmental collapse and it’s due to start in 2015, what do you mean by “environmental collapse”? Zero crop yields in some local regions, or a new ice age? Or something in between?
          Stop talking about a nebulous big bad. Without specifics you’re just wasting electrons – which is not the sustainable, idyllic lifestyle that the noble savage lived in 10,000BC.

          • Afewknowthetruth 19.1.1.1.1
            11 December 2011 at 10:09 pm

            McFlock

            First you need to understand the exponenetial function. If you don’t understand that you will never fully understand our present predicament.

            Al Bartlett’s lecture, Arithmentic Population and Energy, (which I have referenced a dozen times on TS) is the best place to start, followed by Chris Martenson’s Crash Course.

            Economic collapse of the US commenced around 1970, when US oil extraction peaked. Decoupling the dollar from gold, deregulation of ‘the markets’ (repeal of Glass-Steagal etc) and exploitation of oil in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexicao, plus overseas oil reserves via ‘petrodollars’ allowed the printing of US dollars to stave off collapse for around 40 years. The oil game is now coming to a climax, witha huge fight over the last reamining reserves in the Middle East on the cards. US debt has now ‘gone exponential’. Europe is in a similar boat. Nobody can predict exactly when the debt bomb will implode because the elites will do whatever they can to defer the day of reckoning for as long as possible. Few informed analysts see the ‘kicking of the can down the road’ continuing for more than another 12 months.

            The financial unravelling which has commenced will accelerate over the period 2011 to 2013 and will almost certainly be complete around 2015.

            Peak oil was around 2005-6. The system is increasingly dependent on unconventional oil of poor EROEI. The best analysis indicates a severe crisis in liquid fuels will occur between the end of 2011 and 2015. Geopolitical factors (such as an attack on Iran) would precipitate a fairly immediate panic in the oil markets, which I why I believe there will not be an attack on Iran in the immdiate future. However, I could be wring on that point.

            Environmental degradation has been occuring since around 8,000 BC, but went into ‘overdrive’ during the Industrial Revolution. The use of oil to chop down forests, engage in factory farming, strip the oceas of fish, and mine minerals etc. has put environmental degradation into ‘hyper-drive’ in recent decades. Add to the mix runaway CO2 emissions which are causing increassing climate instability and ocean acidification. The point at which global collapse will occur is open to debate simce it is an incremental condition: for people living in many regions of the world, e.g. Haiti, collapse is here now. NZ will be less impacted than many other places in the short erm because of accidents of geography.

            If you genuinely wnat to know the specifics I suggest you read this:

            http://www.publishme.co.nz/shop/theeasyway-p-684.html

            or some other book which covers it all.

            If you are too ‘tight’ to buy a book you can get up to speed by reading

            Energy Bulletin

            http://www.energybulletin.net/

            and Nature Bats Last

            http://guymcpherson.com/

            regularly.

            It will make little difference to me what you do but it will make a huge difference for you if you become informed.

            • McFlock 19.1.1.1.1.1
              11 December 2011 at 11:29 pm

              No specifics on your linked pages – a bit like saying “Key promised to dowhateverit takes” and using thestandard.org as your source.
              Though you get points for poetic language, e.g. “financial unravelling”.
              Doesn’t say a damned thing. Are you predicting NZ or US inflation at, say, more than 300% by 2015? Reduction in international goods exchange by 30% in the same period? Will we no longer be using money? What?
                
              You’ve been saying the same stuff here for a couple of years or so and the dates keep changing. Be a bit more specific so your predictions are testable.

    • Colonial Viper 19.2
      11 December 2011 at 7:51 pm

      The collapse of current economic arrangements has been going on full speed for a year or two now so it seems to be a safe bet…

  20. Jilly Bee 20
    11 December 2011 at 7:22 pm

    What about the report on TV3 News this evening about Peter Dunne’s blocking of the report on alcohol abuse being made public. This is absolutely disgusting – the footage shown with the news clip was spot on, though hard to watch. I’m no wowser and enjoy a glass or two or two of wine with dinner in the evenings, but. . . . . . . . . And this guy’s been sucked back into John Key’s bosom with all his baubles of office [along with the Maori Party – didn’t Pita Sharples look ragged]. Oh happy days.

  21. Draco T Bastard 21
    11 December 2011 at 7:23 pm

    Dunne must answer questions over supressed alcohol report

    The Ministry of Health requested the Health Sponsorship Council launch a major survey on New Zealanders attitudes to alcohol. This survey could have assisted MPs during the Select Committee consideration of the Alcohol Reform Bill. However the Health Sponsorship Council report and its findings were never made public.

    “Minister Dunne’s explanations for burying the report – that publishing the report would cost too much and the results didn’t add value – are simply not credible,” said Mr Hague.

    So much for integrity from the Hairdo.

    • Hilary 21.1
      11 December 2011 at 7:38 pm

      That young TV3 reporter is doing some good investigative journalism and clearly knows his way around the Official Information Act.

      • seeker 21.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 10:38 pm

        The young reporter is Brooke Sabin Hilary. And yes he is doing some excellent investigative work, long may he do so. I hope he doesn’t end up in the gallery with all the other glazed over ‘gone to the dark side’ Right Winged Stepford Wives of the journalist fraternity, or should that be sorority?

    • Afewknowthetruth 21.2
      11 December 2011 at 7:55 pm

      DTB

      Give him marks for consistency. At least ‘the Hairdo’ is consistent in his sabotaging of NZ society. I cannot think of one positive contribution he has made since entering parliament.

      • Colonial Viper 21.2.1
        11 December 2011 at 8:07 pm

        Pete George will forward you a long list shortly.

        • Afewknowthetruth 21.2.1.1
          11 December 2011 at 8:26 pm

          Oh good. I’m feeling peckisk and need something for supper.

          My memory fails me at times. Wasn’t Dunne in favour of lowering the drinking age and opposed to smoke-free legislation?

        • Jilly Bee 21.2.1.2
          11 December 2011 at 8:51 pm

          Come on Pete G – let’s have a comment – at least.

        • deuto 21.2.1.3
          11 December 2011 at 10:06 pm

          Yes – Peter George, I am also waiting.

          Damm – just broke my promise to myself to never respond to or acknowledge PG.

    • Jim Nald 21.3
      11 December 2011 at 8:03 pm

      Where does Dunne get his political donations from?

      • felix 21.3.1
        11 December 2011 at 9:08 pm

        Dunno, but Pete George has assured us it’s definitely not the alcohol and tobacco lobbies.

        • Tigger 21.3.1.1
          11 December 2011 at 10:39 pm

          Poor Pete, how are you going to feel when we start targeting Dunne over asset sales? Him and any National MPs with slim majorities. You see, Key needs every vote to sell our assets so we’re going to make it as hard as possible for him.

  22. Jum 22
    11 December 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Mike Moore – helped bring down Labour – a few choice articles.
    Mike Moore – revenged himself upon Helen Clark – helped by NAct advisers
    Really weird Honours and Awards – with NAct’s reward still to come – priceless.

    ‘Mike Moore, New Zealand Ambassador to The United States and former Director General of the World Trade Organisation and New Zealand Prime Minister said he was appreciative that he has been honoured by the Australian Government. It has been announced he has been awarded the Order of Australia. Mr Moore has been recognised by a number of Governments. Details listed.

    Honours and Awards
    • The Order of New Zealand
    • Commemoration Medal 1990
    • Commander of the Order of the Equatorial Star (Commandeur de l’Ordre de Laetrile Equatoriale) – Government of Gabon
    • National Order of Cote d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast) (l’Ordre National de Cote d’Ivoire en Qualite de Commandeur)
    • Order of the Golden Heart of Kenya
    • Order of Duke Branimir with Ribbon – Republic of Croatia
    • National Honour of Georgia – Government of Georgia
    • The Medal of the Oriental Republic of Uruguay – Government of Uruguay – highest national honour
    • Pope John Paul II Annual Medal – The Holy See’

    (Still waiting for the NAct rewards to roll in for Chris Trotter).

    Two more scalps for John Key and his friends.

  23. Afewknowthetruth 23
    11 December 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Jum

    Well we do know that as a general rule, the more damage to society and the environment a person does, the more the system awards and rewards them.

    Promoting globalisation, the money-lender system, corporate control of society and enslavement of the general populace usually attracts the highest honours.

  24. drongo 24
    11 December 2011 at 10:46 pm

    Someone needs to start up a page on facebook called “The let’s ditch the filthy sell-out Maori Party who’ve done nothing but flushed their own people down Key’s bog-pit”. We need to put the pressure on the Maori Party to leave asset sales alone. They mightn’t have to support asset sales, and they’ve even said they’re not really into them, but Sharples is so fickle he’d probably change his mind with an offer from Key to reduce loans of Maori students by 0.5%, because “that’s a real gain for Maori”, eh Pita? Or perhaps Key might agree to using a Maori greeting at the Waitangi Day celebrations in exchange for asset sales and agreeing to Aaron Gilmore’s suggestion of settling all land clams…by 1999 – another big hit for Maori, Pita. Shit man, you’re such a heavyweight for your people.

    • mik e 24.1
      11 December 2011 at 11:00 pm

      The maori Nationals lapdogparty we delivered higher unemployment 18% +up from 8% higher poverty rates and you suckers voted for us ! wolf in sheeps clothing.

      • drongo 24.1.1
        11 December 2011 at 11:30 pm

        Sharples just wants to hang around till 2014 to claim the pension. He says going with National will mean “small gains” for Maori. The only Maori who’ll make a “small gain” is him – the extra he’ll be getting for playing poodle in Maori Affairs. In fact, I think he’s too dumb to understand he doesn’t need to go with Key to claim his pension, and probably thinks he’d lose his MP’s salary, too. Dumb-arse. Aren’t your people important to you any more, Mr Richprick Sell-out Sharples?

  25. drongo 25
    11 December 2011 at 10:55 pm

    And in any case, Whanau Ora is precisely what the nats want and fits in nicely with their desire to shift all welfare provision over to community organisations. The Maori Party would get Whanau Ora if they asked for it or not so isn’t really something Tariana can rightly claim credit for, and in fact is again selling her people down Key’s dunny becuase it’ll mean more poverty as more groups taking control also means the gradual demise of our hardship extra add-on system of assistance designed for the really really poor, many of whom are Maori.

  26. heha 26
    11 December 2011 at 11:17 pm

    2011-2014 The Maori Party retirement tour. Lapping it up for someone else to clean up.

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