Our “casual” PM

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1. TheContrarian 1

   26 April 2015 at 12:35 pm

   The grammar hurts….
2. fisiani 2

   26 April 2015 at 1:02 pm

   When he said he was probably the most casual Prime Minister New Zealand has ever had he is probably correct. He is far more casual and laid back and easy going and lighthearted than his predecessors such as Clark, Shipley, Bolger, Moore, Palmer, Lange or Muldoon. I have no personal knowledge of PM’s beyond that so I suspect his words are indeed probably true. His casualness and at times goofyness explains in part his immense popularity with the population at large who at times are all these things . Every foible makes him more human and he could hardly be called aloof. He wants to win and deserves to win a fourth term. I see no evidence of this being impossible due to lack of popular support. Undoubtedly he will slip up from time to time as he will remain casual and laid back and easy going and lighthearted. i realise that every time he makes a joke there will be faux outrage here. It’s hysterical to see the froth building and building till some idiot seriously tries to compare him with Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris. Choose your battles carefully. Understand the difference between strategy and tactics.
   Your chance will come when he chooses to retire.
   • Paul 2.1

     26 April 2015 at 1:11 pm

     He has been found to have repeatedly harassing and abusing a female waitress against her wishes.
     And you defend him.
     • fisiani 2.1.1

       26 April 2015 at 1:31 pm

       Do you seriously claim that he thought for a moment that he was repeatedly harrassing and abusing? Can you not spot the blatant political motive in all this so called outrage?
       • Jones 2.1.1.1

         26 April 2015 at 1:46 pm

         He didn’t think, that’s why this is now an issue. And it became political the moment a Prime Minister chose to harass a waitress.
       • freedom 2.1.1.2

         26 April 2015 at 1:46 pm

         just in case you are unsure who is going to be sitting next to you next term
         http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/2015/04/24/john-key-repeat-kindergarten-after-failing-hands-ourselves-module
       • Puddleglum 2.1.1.3

         26 April 2015 at 2:01 pm

         Yes, I think it’s clear from the waitress’ account that he knowingly continued to harass her after realising how annoyed and upset she was.

         His claim that he did not realise is simply not credible given his behaviours, Bronagh Key’s admonition of him and the length of time over which the harassment happened.
         • marty mars 2.1.1.3.1

           26 April 2015 at 2:26 pm

           Everyone knows he got a ‘kick’ out of harassing her – it was a game to him, he got some type of ‘jolly’ from it – and he didn’t for a second consider how the woman felt, the massive power imbalance, the illegality of touching someone without permission and after they have said no, let alone the sexual connotation – he didn’t think of anything except for his own pleasure – that is why he is unfit for office, a disgraced creep, and should be in court defending charges.
           • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.3.1.1

             26 April 2015 at 2:59 pm

             +1

             These actions of his show his psychopathy.
           • Murray Rawshark 2.1.1.3.1.2

             26 April 2015 at 4:40 pm

             Tautoko.
           • CnrJoe 2.1.1.3.1.3

             26 April 2015 at 5:06 pm

             MartyMars ‘and he didn’t for a second consider how the woman felt,…’

             Amandas account has it that Key absolutely knew. It was his convoluted calculated revenge for his ‘humour’ having been spurned – as I read it.
             • marty mars …

               26 April 2015 at 6:25 pm

               hmmm part of the jolly taking then – sad bastard
         • Sacha 2.1.1.3.2

           26 April 2015 at 6:54 pm

           “I think it’s clear from the waitress’ account that he knowingly continued to harass her after realising how annoyed and upset she was.”

           Puddleglum, your excellent post makes that abundantly clear, thank you.

           As he approached me he thought it would be fitting to raise his hands high and make scary, suspense sound effects, like the music from the movie Jaws that we all know so well, and still gestured as if to reach behind me. As he towered overhead I slunk down, cringing, whilst Bronagh told him to “leave the poor girl alone”. I looked him in the eye and asked “is it self defence, with your security here, if I have to physically stop you from touching me?” and he countered, with a smile, “defence against what?”

           If this account is accurate it’s clear that John Key was well aware of the continuing discomfort he was creating for the waitress. The childish recourse to “scary, suspense sound effects“, for example, only makes sense – is only ‘funny’ (!?) – if he knows the level of discomfort he is inflicting.

           What this account describes is not just ‘hair pulling’ but a process of toying with a person in a way that is known to be unwelcome and not remotely enjoyed by them. One telling phrase is “defence against what?” … delivered with a smile.

           In other words, ‘I know perfectly well what it is a defence against – but defence is pointless because I can always say ‘I’m only joking!”.

           The other telling phrase comes from his wife Bronagh Key: “leave the poor girl alone“. It’s a phrase you only use when you detect deliberate teasing and bullying. Did Bronagh – like the waitress – also not appreciate her husband’s harmless, ‘fun loving’ nature?

           My guess is that, in saying that and in knowing her husband all too well, Bronagh Key was in a perfect position to appreciate just what her husband was doing in these continued interactions with the waitress – harassing her.
           • Clemgeopin 2.1.1.3.2.1

             26 April 2015 at 8:00 pm

             +1. Well said. Very perceptive.
       • swordfish 2.1.1.4

         26 April 2015 at 2:27 pm

         fisiani: “Do you seriously claim that he thought for a moment that he was repeatedly harassing and abusing ?”

         Gordon Campbell hits the nail on the head…”…there were multiple instances of hair-pulling and these persisted and persisted long after she had made her annoyance clear to Key – who had also been advised by his wife, and by other café staff that the behaviour was evidently not being welcomed…..The repeated behaviour, even after being told that offence had been taken, is disturbing. It is as if her rebuke had only angered him, and compelled him to repeat the actions to assert his authority…..This is odd and pretty unpleasant behaviour. Behind Key’s smiling persona it seems, is the usual anger of a powerful man who will not brook being challenged – especially not by a young woman, and a waitress to boot. ‘Don’t pull my hair’ was taken by Key as a challenge to his authority, and not as a red light to be recognised. Just joking ? Not really.”

         And, more recently: “Don’t know about you, but when hi-jinks and horsing around are going on, my understanding is that everyone involved is supposed to be having a good time. Those terms don’t apply to a situation where one person with immense power is harassing someone with none – and whose job depends on them having to grin and bear it…..everything Prime Minister John Key has said and done since uttering his “apology” has been calculated to dispel the sense that he had done anything to apologise about.”
         • Molly 2.1.1.4.1

           26 April 2015 at 3:20 pm

           ” It is as if her rebuke had only angered him, and compelled him to repeat the actions to assert his authority…..This is odd and pretty unpleasant behaviour. “

           This is exactly what I feel is the situation. Have met many of his type that don’t like being challenged, especially by those they consider “beneath” them.

           I have the same take that her refusal to pretend to enjoy it, exacerbated his continued harassment. He wanted to ensure she was aware how powerless she was to stop him.
           • Sacha 2.1.1.4.1.1

             26 April 2015 at 7:25 pm

             A cowardly bully doesn’t like being challenged. It means he has picked the wrong victim, a cardinal sin. More fear of being recognised than anger. Must redouble the effort..
       • b waghorn 2.1.1.5

         26 April 2015 at 3:03 pm

         It’s the fact key is so emotionally unware to realize it would freck her out that astounds me the most.It shows a deep flaw in his mental make up and I prefer my leaders to be sane.
         • Sacha 2.1.1.5.1

           26 April 2015 at 7:39 pm

           Worse. He knows it freaked her out.
       • Foreign Waka 2.1.1.6

         26 April 2015 at 3:50 pm

         Please stop for one moment and think…. if this would not be the PM but some ordinary person what would happen? Think before you speak…
         Secondly, being casual is dandy if you are having a day out on the beach but we, the ones who work every day so that our taxes can pay the PM, expect a bit more then that when out in the public eye and generally doing the county’s bidding. Such is the price. If any of the ordinary workers would come along with excuses, they would get a thing or two told. Seriously, you are defending the proverbial slippery slope…
       • Murray Rawshark 2.1.1.7

         26 April 2015 at 4:35 pm

         If he didn’t think he was harassing her, he doesn’t have the discernment to sand a piece of wood. If he knew he was, but did it anyway, he should be locked up. There is no explanation for his actions which leaves him fit to run a sack race, let alone a country.
         • Sacha 2.1.1.7.1

           26 April 2015 at 7:40 pm

           He knew what he was doing.
           • Murray Rawshark 2.1.1.7.1.1

             26 April 2015 at 8:03 pm

             I think so too. It wouldn’t have been any fun for him otherwise. Doing this to a waitress is sick bullying, but what really worries me is the way he fondles the hair of pre-adolescent girls. Taken along with his attitude to Sabin, it really worries me.
             • Stephanie Rodgers …

               27 April 2015 at 12:23 am

               I really find this kind of insinuation gross. As I’ve posted elsewhere, jumping to conclusions about John Key’s sexuality is inaccurate and demeaning. I get that it’s really easy and people think it’s really damaging to scream “John Key’s a pedo!!!!!” but it would be great if the left could collectively grow up a little and treat this serious issue seriously.
               https://bootstheory.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/on-john-keys-fetish/
               • Murray Rawshark …

                 27 April 2015 at 12:37 am

                 We don’t agree then. Please note that I haven’t said that what you have written is gross.
                 • Stephanie Rodgers …

                   27 April 2015 at 11:06 am

                   That’s probably because what I wrote didn’t exploit child abuse for cheap political shots.
                   • Murray Rawshark …

                     27 April 2015 at 12:38 pm

                     No, that was not my motivation. I would thank you to not keep jumping to conclusions about my motivations. So far, you have been 100% wrong, and nothing suggests to me that this would be likely to change.
               • David H …

                 27 April 2015 at 8:21 am

                 @Stephanie. I think the ‘pedo’ thing comes in where you see all the other footage of hair pulling/playing, and it’s all with very young girls. So the implication is there. And some are, yes unhelpfully pushing that line. But as they have said for many years. A picture is worth a thousand words. Or has he a copy of his own Painting? (Dorian Gray)
                 • Stephanie Rodgers …

                   27 April 2015 at 11:05 am

                   As I have said in a comment on that post to jenny kirk, but more briefly: for fuck’s sake, we have at most six photos of Key touching girls’ hair. Some of them are cringeworthy. Some of them are perfectly easy to explain – visiting hairdressers, going to shave-for-a-cure events, places where ANY politician would be touching people’s hair.

                   Spinning this into “he’s a perverted child abuser” is a serious stretch, and one which demeans the seriousness of the harassment against Amanda Bailey AND the seriousness of systemic child abuse cases.
                   • weka …

                     27 April 2015 at 12:49 pm

                     It’s also very problematic to start guessing about whether other people are sexual offenders. And guessing is all anyone here can do. We already have huge difficulty in NZ with dealing with sexual abuse of children, culturally, and as SR points out in her Boots Theory post, we tend to see offenders are the evil other (in this case Key). Then we end up with situations where men are afraid to touch children, which just reinforces negatives ideas about our bodies and our humanity. It also clouds issues around consent.

                     I’m also mindful of the girls in the photos. Is anyone considering how they might feel to have that interaction portrayed as sexual? One of the themes running through this whole thing is the extent to which those girls are bit players in all this.
             • weka …

               27 April 2015 at 12:53 pm

               “I think so too. It wouldn’t have been any fun for him otherwise. Doing this to a waitress is sick bullying, but what really worries me is the way he fondles the hair of pre-adolescent girls. Taken along with his attitude to Sabin, it really worries me.”

               There’s plenty to be concerned about in Key’s attitudes towards abuse. But if those things didn’t exist, and it wasn’t Key but say someone you admire, would you see those phtotos in the same light?

               The point being, we have no idea what is going on there, and it’s important to understand that Key’s touching those girls hair could be completely innocent. It could be something else too, but if we go down the track of guessing we’re opening ourselves up to making the culture around touch worse.
               • Murray Rawshark …

                 27 April 2015 at 1:15 pm

                 I would not admire anyone who had protected Sabin, whether he subsequently fondled the hair of young girls or not. Your question is moot.

                 But yeah, thanks to those who are beginning to paint FJK as the victim here. He must be protected from the terrible lefty men. Take the side of the underdog.
                 • weka …

                   27 April 2015 at 1:32 pm

                   Do you mean that my comments are painting Key as a victim, and that I am siding with him? If so you have almost completely missed my point. Which is that we have a very poor culture of dealing with child sexual abuse, and speculating in this way, irrespective of who it is, makes it worse.

                   My view on Key himself is that this whole thing will be very damaging to him as PM, and he is likely to have more things like this happen over the next two years. He deserves everything he gets (my concerns above are certainly not for him).
                   • Murray Rawshark …

                     27 April 2015 at 2:01 pm

                     The argument seems to be that all men are to blame for child abuse, sexual assault, etc, therefore it’s wrong to focus on any one man when it looks like that’s what he’s doing. I don’t like the ramifications of that.

                     Fizzy has posted this ” The attempt to somehow link the joke to paedophilia and to Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris demeans and trivialises the actual victims of sexual abuse.”
                   • weka …

                     27 April 2015 at 2:08 pm

                     “The argument seems to be that all men are to blame for child abuse, sexual assault, etc, therefore it’s wrong to focus on any one man when it looks like that’s what he’s doing.”

                     Can you please link to where this has been argued so I can understand what you are referring to?

                     Fisiani is an astro turfer, I don’t pay much heed to what he says outside of that context. He’s manipulating most people here.
       • David H 2.1.1.8

         27 April 2015 at 7:20 am

         Yes he’s a creepy person who abuses the power that he has. The waitress was just a case in point, and still after all that has transpired, Fizzy still tries to defend the indefensible.

         Political my arse this was harassment pure and creepily simple get over it Fizzy
   • Ovid 2.2

     26 April 2015 at 1:36 pm

     In what world does repeatedly pulling the hair of a stranger pass for casual? It’s not endearing at all. Now I agree, Key has until now maintained a good public persona most of the time. To be successful in high political office you need to have some kind of charisma.

     But they don’t have to be charismatic in the same way. For example, Clark was seen as competent and on top of things. Taken to extremes, she became seen as micro-managing and intrusive. Key has been seen as affable and casual. That is turning into an image of carelessness and arrogance. I expect to see him take some damage on the preferred PM polling.
   • whateva next? 2.3

     26 April 2015 at 2:23 pm

     Certainly casual about his job as a statesman, seemed to put alot of effort into making a young woman feel very uncomfortable in her workplace though.
   • millsy 2.4

     26 April 2015 at 4:41 pm

     So you think what he did was acceptable?
   • phillip ure 2.5

     26 April 2015 at 5:08 pm

     bullshit fisi – lange was a walking/one-man joke machine..

     ..he was the energiser-bunny of one-liners..

     ..he put the ‘as’ into ‘casual..
   • The Other Mike 2.6

     26 April 2015 at 9:50 pm

     Fisi – where are you now? MIA?

     After these posts in reply to your usual crap you are (unusually) silent.

     I suspect it is time to go back to being a fangirl for DPF and the whale.

     No Loss.
   • D'Esterre 2.7

     27 April 2015 at 12:20 am

     @ fisiani: ” Every foible makes him more human and he could hardly be called aloof. He wants to win and deserves to win a fourth term. I see no evidence of this being impossible due to lack of popular support.”

     Well, you would say that, wouldn’t you! Dear Leader: the David Brent of NZ politics.
3. Paul 3

   26 April 2015 at 1:05 pm

   Key needs to follow his own advice and “get some guts”.
   He should stop ‘apologising’ with all the reservations he makes like he was “playing along”
   That is victim blaming.

   He should stop saying things like he “misread the situation.”
   1. There were many situations.
   2. The waitress clearly indicated she wanted him to stop.

   The more he denies, the less like a Prime Minister he looks.
   What a creep.
   • wyndham 3.1

     26 April 2015 at 1:09 pm

     Yes, it’s a case of the old “I’m sorry BUT”. Which is not sorry at all.
     • Paul 3.1.1

       26 April 2015 at 1:13 pm

       If you read the sorry it was dropping off 2 bottles of wine and running.
       More evidence of the PM’s courage.
4. coaster 4

   26 April 2015 at 1:13 pm

   if a male high school teacher was to regularily pull a girls pony tail, even after being asked to stop what would the media say.
   • mac1 4.1

     26 April 2015 at 5:21 pm

     What would the Teacher’s Council say? What would the BOT say? What would the parents say? What would the colleagues say? What would the girls say?

     And quite right too……………….

     So, Governor- General, media, Minister of Women’s Affairs, of Police, of Labour, cabinet, caucus, Party members, voters, what say you?
     • Maz 4.1.1

       26 April 2015 at 6:03 pm

       And Louise Nicholas.
5. KarlyPilkoids 5

   26 April 2015 at 1:13 pm

   Sounds familiar…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngEQT5YTdg0
   • ianmac 5.1

     26 April 2015 at 3:13 pm

     “Casual. Earnest. Sincere. You people are so lucky to have me as your boss. ”
     John-David-Brent-Key. Indistinguishable.
6. KarlyPilkoids 6

   26 April 2015 at 1:19 pm

   It’s official, our Prime Minister is David Brent.

   You’ve got to chill out, yeah, trust me, this is what I do, all right? You will never live in a country like this again. This is brilliant – fact! And you will never have another prime minister like me. Someone who’s basically a chilled out entertainer.
   • te reo putake 6.1

     26 April 2015 at 1:38 pm

     Yep, got a post going up shortly making that very point.
   • swordfish 6.2

     26 April 2015 at 2:04 pm

     A kind of creepier, more malevolent Brentmeister-General.
7. Paul 7

   26 April 2015 at 1:28 pm

   Adds a new meaning to word casual.
8. idlegus 8

   26 April 2015 at 1:29 pm

   “Key said his casual approach had both advantages and disadvantages.”

   Disadvantages may include sexual harassment and general inappropriate touching of females

   – just read this on someones facebook page, good summation i thought.
9. AB 9

   26 April 2015 at 1:32 pm

   No character, no class, no moral or intellectual substance
10. rawshark-yeshe 10

    26 April 2015 at 1:38 pm

    how will they wriiggle out of this in court .. he may be, but she was never ‘casual’. proof.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/04/26/the-pm-and-the-waitress-the-facebook-post-that-prove-national-knew/

    kia kaha, amanda,
    • freedom 10.1

      26 April 2015 at 2:05 pm

      and an excellent post from Burnt Out Teacher
      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/04/23/i-had-hoped-so-hard-id-never-know-your-name/

      especially regarding the imbalance of power discussion
      • rawshark-yeshe 10.1.1

        26 April 2015 at 2:07 pm

        +100 freedom .. excellent post … a must read for everyone .. ( maybe even Louise Upston ? I think I will send it to her.)
        • Murray Rawshark 10.1.1.1

          26 April 2015 at 6:48 pm

          Great. I wonder if she’ll read it? Is she the one who sits behind FJK at question time, with a puzzled look on her face?
          • rawshark-yeshe 10.1.1.1.1

            26 April 2015 at 7:11 pm

            yeah, and the one who gets to ask the patsy questions when the opposition is making progress.
          • Clemgeopin 10.1.1.1.2

            26 April 2015 at 9:32 pm

            Yes, that gutless dumb one. The Minister for Women’s Affairs !

            May be Key pulls her hair too and she finds that a bit of fun!

            In fact, not one of the female or male National MPs have condemned Key, including Judith Collins!
11. travellerev 11

    26 April 2015 at 2:02 pm

    I don’t want a casual Prime Minister. I don’t want a PM who pulls pony tails. I don’t want a Prime Minister whose propaganda machine sells his daughters unhealthy hyper sexualized “art” as a sample of strong womanhood.

    I want an adult who takes his/her job serious and who takes a stand for all the people of NZ, not just his/her rich mates. I want an adult who leaves his sexuality home with his wife were it belongs and who makes listening to the people of the country that saw fit to elect him his priority.
    • ropata 11.1

      26 April 2015 at 3:34 pm

      she is young and figuring out who she is … leave her alone
    • Realblue 11.2

      26 April 2015 at 4:41 pm

      You could leave his daughter out of it, or is attacking her assuaging your aggressive nature?? Who are you to decide what’s healthy or not? I get that you’re pissed off at Key, and rightly so, but FFS show some class.
      • travellerev 11.2.1

        26 April 2015 at 5:23 pm

        Ropata I am disappointed!

        I’d love to leave his daughter out of it. He’s the one who keeps pimping her. This time as an example of strong womanhood.

        From a woman’s point of view the photo of her in the NZ Herald is that of a female victim of some form of sexual abuse, acting hyper sexualized as victims of sexual bullying often do.

        There is nothing strong about these photos. Just a young girl trying to get some control over what was taken from her!

        Don’t believe me, take those photos to a Psychiatrist and ask his/her opinion!

        I am not the one acting hideous. Her father and the NZ Herald are!

        And while we’re at it where is her mother in all this?

        Accepting her husband is bullying waitresses while she is present. This whole thing stinks! Big time!
        • tc 11.2.1.1

          26 April 2015 at 7:59 pm

          Bronagh is no fool so excellent point ev. Not the same now it’s out and about rather than some ‘on tour’ event those bankstas love so much.
        • McFlock 11.2.1.2

          26 April 2015 at 11:37 pm

          Normally I skip your comments.

          11.2.1 is a reminder as to why: you are a seriously fucked up individual.
          While you’re taking the pics to a psychiatrist, try and get some consultation time for yourself.
        • Stephanie Rodgers 11.2.1.3

          27 April 2015 at 12:26 am

          This entire thread of conversation is gross, travellerev. The only people manipulating or exploiting Stephanie Key are the lefties who want to use her career choices to attack her father. Saying “where is her mother in all this” just compounds the sexism – children aren’t the property of their parents. Children’s actions as young independent adults are not moral reflections on their parents.
          • felix 11.2.1.3.1

            27 April 2015 at 5:49 am

            “Children’s actions as young independent adults are not moral reflections on their parents.”

            Not in the perfect facsimile way you imply, but it’s absurd to suggest that children don’t reflect their parents’ attitudes, ethics, morality, belief systems, and relationship to the world around them.

            Your “young independent adults” comment seems to be buying into the dangerous right-wing framing of events as isolated incidents caused solely by the choices of those directly involved, and of human beings as singular production and consumption units, self-created and disconnected from the influence of all other units, even those closest to them.

            Dangerous. Misguided. Offensive.
            • weka 11.2.1.3.1.1

              27 April 2015 at 9:28 am

              The problem is that there is no way for any of us to know what connections there may or may not be between Lazar and her father/mother. It’s also none of our business if what we’re doing is trying to make political gain, esp given the sexual nature of Lazar’s work.

              I don’t like Lazar’s work, and I suspect if I had a close look at it (in context of the body of the work she has produced as an artist) I’d most likely have some serious critique of what she is doing, but I also find travellerev’s and other’s comments disrespectful to women and buying into a number of myths about what women should be like.

              as an aside to that, I haven’t seen any evidence of JK promoting his daughter’s work as PM. Is there any?
              • felix …

                27 April 2015 at 11:07 am

                Not that I know of, and I essentially agree that there is no good reason to critique her work in the context of a political discussion about her father.

                As an artist, however, there is nothing wrong or even unusual about examining her work in the context of her circumstances and experiences, and those circumstances obviously include her family, her father’s high profile job etc.

                I would see it as patronising and insulting to her as an artist to discuss her work as if it sprang forth from a vacuum and was not in some way a product of her lived experience.

                So (for me anyway) she pretty much off-limits when talking about John Key, but John Key can’t possibly be off-limits when talking about her. It might be a fine distinction but I think it’s an important one.
                • weka …

                  27 April 2015 at 12:22 pm

                  “So (for me anyway) she pretty much off-limits when talking about John Key, but John Key can’t possibly be off-limits when talking about her. It might be a fine distinction but I think it’s an important one.”

                  It’s a useful distinction. I’m just not sure how one would know what of her art was related to her family, and how one could talk about it outside of politics, given JK is such a dick most of the time and continually up for discussion 😉 I guess if we were an art soceity here on ts it would be clearer.
                  • felix …

                    27 April 2015 at 12:38 pm

                    “ I’m just not sure how one would know what of her art was related to her family…”

                    Well that’s exactly the sort of question that a discussion about her art might legitimately explore 😀

                    She does have one work titled “Kiss my ass, a fun game the whole family can play” so I suppose on some level that’s inviting exactly that kind of conversation.

                    As you say though, this is a politics forum not an arts forum so it’s not really the right place for it. Also, like you, I haven’t yet found any of her work particularly interesting so I doubt I’ll be looking for anywhere to discuss it. 😀
              • Colonial Rawshark …

                27 April 2015 at 11:37 am

                as an aside to that, I haven’t seen any evidence of JK promoting his daughter’s work as PM. Is there any?

                If Key gave instructions, publicity on her daughters creative exploits would be relegated to fifty words on p12 of the NZ Herald.
            • Stephanie Rodgers 11.2.1.3.1.2

              27 April 2015 at 11:12 am

              I didn’t “suggest children don’t reflect their parents’ attitudes” and if you really think I “buy into” rightwing framing which writes off institutional and systemic narratives you are frankly being incredibly disingenuous.

              travellerev isn’t drawing some kind of inference like “Cherry Lazar’s art reflects the wealthy capital-worshipping individualistic attitudes her parents have”. travellerev is literally stating that Cherry Lazar’s art proves her father sexually abused her.

              I’m frankly not going to bother with nuanced analysis of the parent/child relationship when that kind of crap is being thrown around.
              • Colonial Rawshark …

                27 April 2015 at 11:42 am

                travellerev is literally stating that Cherry Lazar’s art proves her father sexually abused her.

                Which statement of travellerev’s “literally” declares proof of that crime perpetrated by John Key? I can’t quite see it myself but may have missed it.
                • Stephanie Rodgers …

                  27 April 2015 at 11:47 am

                  From a woman’s point of view the photo of her in the NZ Herald is that of a female victim of some form of sexual abuse, acting hyper sexualized as victims of sexual bullying often do.

                  There is nothing strong about these photos. Just a young girl trying to get some control over what was taken from her!

                  Don’t believe me, take those photos to a Psychiatrist and ask his/her opinion!
                  • Colonial Rawshark …

                    27 April 2015 at 11:56 am

                    I saw that, but where was the connection to John Key perpetrating the sexual abuse? Or did you just read him into it?
                    • te reo putake …

                      27 April 2015 at 12:02 pm

                      None so blind etc.

                      You must have missed the bit where Ev calls Key his daughter’s pimp. And what Stephanie bolded above.
                    • Colonial Rawshark …

                      27 April 2015 at 12:10 pm

                      huh? Literally his daughter’s pimp? I’m pretty sure it was figurative in travellerev’s usage, in terms of Key’s use of his daughter’s media presence.
                    • te reo putake …

                      27 April 2015 at 12:16 pm

                      Clutching at semantic straws, CV? Leaving aside the sad fact that literal and figurative are now effectively interchangeable, the point is that Ev made comments that are completely unneeded. Whether the claims were literal or figurative, allegation or implication, the daughter should not be linked with the sins of the father. It’s cheap and demeaning.
                    • Colonial Rawshark …

                      27 April 2015 at 12:22 pm

                      The claim that a sexual allegation was made against Key was very severe, therefore the meaning of the words is doubly important in my mind, even though you might write it off as mere “semantics.”
                    • te reo putake …

                      27 April 2015 at 12:26 pm

                      Yeah, whatever. Are you Pete George in disguise?
                    • felix …

                      27 April 2015 at 12:45 pm

                      Give it up, CR. Steph’s words have no particular meaning, especially when she’s using them to apply incredibly specific interpretations to other peoples’ words.
                    • weka …

                      27 April 2015 at 12:55 pm

                      I guess we could always just ask travellerev if she meant that Lazar had been abused by her father, or by someone else.
              • felix …

                27 April 2015 at 12:27 pm

                Stephanie: “I didn’t “suggest children don’t reflect their parents’ attitudes” and if you really think I “buy into” rightwing framing which writes off institutional and systemic narratives you are frankly being incredibly disingenuous.”

                You literally stated that “Children’s actions as young independent adults are not moral reflections on their parents.”

                That’s 1) exactly what I responded to, and 2) correct usage of the word “literal”.
                • weka …

                  27 April 2015 at 12:57 pm

                  They’re two different things.
                  • felix …

                    27 April 2015 at 2:31 pm

                    What are?
                  • travellerev …

                    27 April 2015 at 2:51 pm

                    It may have escaped most but the “one whose name must not be named” just this week (on the day the name suppression was due to be lifted) had his case referred to the high court and his name suppression was extended. The court were the case will be heard is undisclosed. Nothing of this appeared in the main stream media.

                    The high profile man (we know that much) is accused of 12 counts of indecent behaviour with minors. Incidentally this is exactly the same allegation as was made against Mike Sabin.

                    Mike Sabin was given a cushy job as a manager of a five start golf resort. The mainstream media only mentioned this in one paper in about five sentences somewhere in the back.

                    Such is the power of the PTB.

                    What is more, the National party refused to allow a proposal to change the law with regards to name suppression to allow for the name of the defendant to be mentioned if the victims want that.

                    Such is the power of the National party and its leadership.

                    Now I’m not saying the high profile “he who must not be named” and Mike Sabin are the same people. That would be braking the law but I hope that you will agree with me that the case against Sabin disappeared rather quickly and that it is very hard to follow the high profile “he who must not be named” case.

                    Now lets go back to John Key and his blatant abuse of a waitress and his creepy predilection for young girls pony tails.

                    His argument is that he is just a casual guy who casually pulls women’s pony tails and he means nothing derogatory or disrespectful with this behaviour.

                    As once having been one of those girls and young women who on numerous occasions had her pony tail pulled, her body pulled just a bit to hard against the podgy tummy of uncles, friends of my parents and, on one occasion, felt so invaded I complained to my mother who progressed by behaving like nothing had happened making my life miserable for one very loooong evening were we all had to pretend everything was fine while it damn well was not, I think I can make a distinction of some casual fun and sexual harassment.

                    For example I would have been very happy to discover my sexuality outside of the glaring lights if my father’s high profile existence. In fact I would have loved for my parents to live very far away and me living it up in Paris in the privacy of that very big international sophisticated city of lights. In fact a first solo exhibition in Paris at 22 years of age would have been already quite daunting.

                    Maybe Cherry Lazar has a real exhibitionist streak and in that case good on her for achieving some of her goals so early in life!

                    But the reason why I call her father her pimp is not because he may have wanted to help her with some exposure to achieve those goals.

                    I call her father and the Mainstream media her pimp because, if we accept that the mainstream media is controlled not by editors but by people who decide what is politically expedient, and, let’s face it, John Key being protected from negative fallout and National staying in power seems to be what is being thought of as politically expedient, the timing of the article about her exhibition could not be better.

                    Her exhibition of photos of her self in all manner of submissive postures, naked, “exploring her femininity and sexuality” smeared all over the MSM while she proclaims to LOVE strong women and the wave of 70s feminists (Of which I was one) owning their own sexuality is nothing but a campaign to suggest that since she is John Key’s offspring he too must love strong women. Why else would he just love to see his little girl poses and a state of undress most “conventional” fathers (and mothers) would abhor.

                    Using a daughter’s “searching for her own sexual identity a playful way” to sell you own grass behaviour towards other girls women in and of itself is abuse. John Key pimping her or allowing the MSM to pimp her is what I suggest is happening here.
12. fisiani 12

    26 April 2015 at 2:32 pm

    Not being casual.
    Good afternoon
    Today – ANZAC Day 2015 – marks 100 years since New Zealand soldiers landed at Gallipoli.
    Earlier today, I delivered a speech at the Dawn Service in ANZAC Cove in Gallipoli.
    I was there to pay our respects to those who fought at Gallipoli and to the more than 2700 New Zealand soldiers who lost their lives during that brutal eight-month campaign.
    All across New Zealand and at Gallipoli today, tens of thousands of New Zealanders have paused to remember their bravery and unity, which helped to forge the ANZAC bond and reputation that endures to this day.
    The reality of what those soldiers faced at Gallipoli is hard to imagine. Standing there today, I got a sense of the terrible conditions they fought under and was reminded of their incredible courage and heroism.
    Today we remember not only those who fought and died at Gallipoli but also those who served during World War One and Two and in conflicts since then.
    We wouldn’t be the country we are today without their sacrifice. We remember.
    To read my full speech from Gallipoli click here.
    Kind regards,
    • freedom 12.1

      26 April 2015 at 2:53 pm

      fisiani is so casual he couldn’t be bothered to paste the link !
      • McFlock 12.1.1

        26 April 2015 at 11:30 pm

        pretty casual about attributing quotes and sources, too.
    • emergency mike 12.2

      26 April 2015 at 3:21 pm

      So you’re hand-clapping John Key for not pulling anyone’s ponytail during his Gallipoli speech?
    • Atiawa 12.3

      26 April 2015 at 3:42 pm

      Wake up. His credibility is so damaged few of us care what he has to say. I certainly can’t take him seriously and I would doubt many on the world stage will be able to. He will continue to have plenty to say but nothing worth listening to.
    • The Other Mike 12.4

      26 April 2015 at 9:57 pm

      Ah! Here you are! Trolling another post with a “Moral Highground” job.

      Sorry. No points.

      The rest of us actual thinkers actually get what Anzac day is about and don’t need reminding from false flag fliers like you and IV.
    • Clemgeopin 12.5

      26 April 2015 at 9:59 pm

      Hey fisi, kia ora! Cool story, bro! But dream on though. Did you even know that Gallipoli is in Turkey and not New Zealand?
    • tracey 12.6

      27 April 2015 at 12:54 pm

      but visited some hollywood business people instead of attending the funeral of a soldier he sent into danger.
13. idlegus 13

    26 April 2015 at 2:44 pm

    ” Standing there today…” so did he write the speech while he was ‘standing there today’ or more probably was it written earlier & it was just a bit of hollow speechifying. if you think one speech maketh the pm then you are utterly delusional.
    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      26 April 2015 at 3:42 pm

      fisiani is a RWNJ and thinks that what people say is more important than what they do.
14. Hone 14

    26 April 2015 at 3:13 pm

    Today – ANZAC Day 2015 – marks 100 years since New Zealand soldiers landed at Gallipoli.
    Earlier today, i spotted some great pony tails to pull, they (the victims) love a bit of it.
    Love John Key
    • cogito 14.1

      26 April 2015 at 3:33 pm

      I just hope he casually gets on the wrong flight home and ends up close and personal with a certain Mr Baghdadi with whom he could engage in some casual beard pulling…
      • Clemgeopin 14.1.1

        26 April 2015 at 10:15 pm

        fisi is just another casual clown. A leg puller, rather than a hair puller, I think.
        • D'Esterre 14.1.1.1

          27 April 2015 at 12:36 am

          @ Clemgeopin: ” A leg puller…”

          Don’t try that one with the waitstaff at your local either, Dear Leader! That is even more obviously sexual harassment.
15. rawshark-yeshe 15

    26 April 2015 at 3:45 pm

    Anagram of CASUAL KEY becomes .. wait for it … USA LACKEY !!!

    😀
    • schwen 15.1

      26 April 2015 at 4:32 pm

      I shall keep that in mind for future cryptic crosswords. Well spotted!
    • Murray Rawshark 15.2

      26 April 2015 at 4:49 pm

      Very apt. That’s all he is. A creep from the land of congressmen who vote in the death penalty for poor gays, then get caught having a romantic dalliance in an airport toilet. No wonder FJK gets on so well with them.
16. freedom 16

    26 April 2015 at 3:54 pm

    Toby Manhire’s piece is a good chuckle
    but the apologists’ line of the day has to be the comment from someone called Marlette

    “It is getting utterly boring to have these long winded commentaries on something that would not even make a small line in the World’s press.”
    • ropata 16.1

      26 April 2015 at 4:57 pm

      After all the headlines around the planet???
    • veutoviper 16.2

      27 April 2015 at 9:08 am

      LOL – I was gobsmacked by Marlette’s comment and almost tempted to reply with a long list of all the overseas’ media links. But i have never commented on the Herald and prefer to keep my personal details from them, so managed to restrain myself – just.
      • freedom 16.2.1

        27 April 2015 at 10:24 am

        The other howler, which came a close second, came from ‘I Know the Truth’ or ‘you know its the truth’. You know the one, comments all the time with the most mind twisting interpretations of the facts it makes an Escher look like an Ex-A-Sketch.

        Well that person also outdid themselves yesterday and I would love to present an actual quote, but I didn’t screengrab it. You might wonder why is that a problem for something from a comments’ thread which is still visible?

        Oddly enough, the comment itself has completely vanished from the thread this morning. Have gone through the list three times, the comment has gone. The comment was full of the usual pro-Key anti-left garbage but then came the last line ……

        the gist of which was this
        ‘the left wing voice box that is The NZH is trying to turn this into a criminal case and is planning to take it to the human rights commission and is calling it sexual harassment’

        I just hope this person doesn’t drive, because the whole red light green light thing must be an awful challenge with such creative cognitive abilities!

        But it raises the question, can we still have confidence in the integrity of the media?
        (stop laughing, this is serious) With editorial ‘adjustments’ that seem more regular than a trail-mix junkie, do we have to take screengrabs of everything now, just in case it’s vanished by the time the page reloads?
        • veutoviper 16.2.1.1

          27 April 2015 at 11:04 am

          I went through the comments yesterday and also remember that one. That person’s comments are always unbelievable and incomprehensible. But it disappearing is strange.

          The Herald seems to be in melt down at present. The continual changing of Currie’s online comment (or rather attempted cover-up) of the Glucina fiasco the other day was farcical. People were taking screen shots and posting them on Twitter etc – and they are still on record for all to see. Legal beagles will have a field day if it all goes to court. Some good ones are stepping up to help AB if she wants to take a formal complaint to the Press Council etc – see my comment at 8 on today’s Open Mike.
          • freedom 16.2.1.1.1

            27 April 2015 at 11:14 am

            thankyou for confirming I was not hallucinating – [insert decent smiley here]
17. ianmac 17

    26 April 2015 at 4:24 pm

    Wikipedia “Hair Fetishism” as at 4:23 26 April.
    “History
    References to hair fetish can be found in ancient empires…..

    …Apparently, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, John Key, is a famous hair fetishist.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_fetishism
    • Murray Rawshark 17.1

      27 April 2015 at 1:11 am

      The minders have been busily removing any mention of FJK from that Wikipedia page. The history of edits is interesting. It also happened to me when I posted a sourced correction about Paula Benefit. NAct has a machine at its disposal.
18. rhinocrates 18

    26 April 2015 at 4:27 pm

    “Though boys throw stones at frogs in sport, yet the frogs do not die in sport but in earnest.”

    Bion of Borysthenes, cited by Plutarch, the Moralia.

    Privilege in a nutshell.

    Key (and fisiani) can define it as “horsing around” as any abuser will say “she was asking for it” “she liked it” in an attempt to silence a woman’s voice like any misogynist… but it’s not for them to do so. It is for those who suffer the consequences to say what has been done to them.
19. Paul 19

    26 April 2015 at 4:41 pm

    Who writes Key’s spin?
    I’m casual…
    How does that excuse repeatedly physically harassing and abusing a young waitress, who clearly told him to desist.
    As excuses go, that’s miserable.
    It is also not a proper apology.
20. Murray Rawshark 20

    26 April 2015 at 4:53 pm

    Most casual with the truth and the sexual safety of children. Most casual with our sovereignty and the seppo spying agencies. FJK, you are a lying and creepy tugboat.
    • Paul 20.1

      26 April 2015 at 5:05 pm

      Casual as Bomber says with the truth
      • mac1 20.1.1

        26 April 2015 at 5:27 pm

        +1 On the money.

        I am distrustful of someone who is casual when decorum is required, who is unaware of the unspoken when attention is required, who is open-handed in beseeching the beholder to attest to his honesty when his hands should be clasped together in prayer, supplication or forgiveness.
        • CnrJoe 20.1.1.1

          26 April 2015 at 8:14 pm

          Nicely put
21. One Anonymous Bloke 21

    26 April 2015 at 5:29 pm

    Just relax, Put your head back, Here comes the drill. Okay, heh heh heh, you know what I’m talkin’ about? Okay.
22. AmaKiwi 22

    26 April 2015 at 5:32 pm

    He’s very casual, like the way he casually gave tax breaks to the rich, raised GST (after he promised he wouldn’t), jammed the AKL Super City down our throats, and passed the GCSB spying bill without even claiming he understood it.

    He casually gave Sky City those gaming machines and casually gave $300 million to the aluminum smelter, allowed deep sea oil drilling, etc., etc.

    Casually speaking, the gap between rich and poor is no big deal nor is there a housing crisis and the CHC re-build is going fine.

    He gets away with it because he always pretends it’s no big deal and his opposition is making a mountain out of a molehill. They’re all hysterical tree hugging unionist crazies. I’m cool as a cucumber which is why you can trust me.

    Don’t forget that Ed Snowden’s evidence is all factually incorrect but I’m so cool I don’t need to provide any evidence. Just take my word for it. Besides, it doesn’t really matter. Don’t trouble yourselves. Go back to Sky sports and have another brew. She’ll be right if John’s at the helm.
    • AmaKiwi 22.1

      26 April 2015 at 5:54 pm

      We’re sending soldiers to Iraq because “we’re part of the club.”

      That must go down in history as the most casual reason any country ever gave for going to war!
23. fisiani 23

    26 April 2015 at 6:00 pm

    The impotence of the Left is clear to see. Why are they getting no traction (forgive the pun) on this trivial tricho issue? The arrogance of the Left assumes that the people are asleep and when they awake they will be livid. The people do not care. They know it’s just petty politics trying to make a hanging offence. They do not share the visceral hatred of the person bizarrely called FJK so freely on this site. When you compare him to Saville and Rolf Harris you really demean the real victims.
    You’ll be further frustrated next week when he refuses to answer questions in the House because he only answers when asked about his role as Prime Minister and never as a local cafe coffee drinker
    • mac1 23.1

      26 April 2015 at 6:33 pm

      fisiani, “real victims”.

      ‘You do not get to say who is the victim’.

      In words of one syllable so that you might understand.

      Never, ever, do you get to define the quality of someone else’s experience.

      And that statement transcends any political divide between yourself and me. This is a human issue. Never even attempt to tell someone else how they should feel, or how their experience rates in your miserable world.

      Utter failure in common humanity.
    • felix 23.2

      26 April 2015 at 6:42 pm

      He wasn’t the Prime Minister at the time?

      Fuck, there goes all his excuses down the drain.

      See now you’re saying it wasn’t the jokey blokey PM that everyone wants to be touched by, it was just some local guy.

      Cool. Now we can just deal with the plain facts of the matter – undisputed by the local guy – and he can be prosecuted for assaulting a young woman like any other local guy would be.
      • freedom 23.2.1

        26 April 2015 at 7:42 pm

        Dudes with guns are shadowing a local cafe coffee drinker?
        That sounds pretty serious. Someone should call the cops.
    • millsy 23.3

      26 April 2015 at 9:19 pm

      WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS OK FOR HIM TO PULL A WOMANS PONYTAIL WHEN SHE FELT UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT IT?!

      But it just sums up the attitude of the PM and his supporters — kick the vulnerable and kick them further when they are down.

      The French aristocracy thought they could keep kicking, and then found out the hard way that these people can kick back. The likes of fisi, Key, Slater, Farrar, Hosking and Henry will one day find that out when they are being dragged to the guilotine set up outside the Otara Community Centre.
      • Clemgeopin 23.3.1

        26 April 2015 at 10:37 pm

        Neuslund Spring, like Arab Spring? I doubt it! Most people here are too ‘casual’ about issues or politics or taking a stand.
      • Molly 23.3.2

        27 April 2015 at 1:30 pm

        Otara community centre is quite a cool place, and one that doesn’t need desecrating. Was a regular visitor there last year.

        How about the Northern Club, or The Cloud?
    • D'Esterre 23.4

      27 April 2015 at 12:44 am

      @ fisiani: “When you compare him to Saville and Rolf Harris you really demean the real victims.”

      Have you seen all the video and photo footage of the PM handling the ponytails of little children? And have you looked closely at his expression when he’s doing it? Creepy beyond words! The comparison is apt.

      What do you mean: the real victims? Do you mean that nobody’s a “real” victim until there’s been penetration? A very uninformed view, if I may say so.
    • Once was Tim 23.5

      27 April 2015 at 1:01 am

      What time does your shift finish Fizz?
24. millsy 24

    26 April 2015 at 7:04 pm

    so fisi, you think that what the PM did was ok. If you do then it is just as bad as doing it yourself.
25. SMILIN 25

    26 April 2015 at 7:22 pm

    Some people will do anything to stay in the news even if it masks what they really are suppose to be doing like telling the country the full story of what they are doing for the country when their making deals overseas and globe trotting our growing debt every time they go
    Appears to me that this PM is just having a bloody good time at our expense I dont see any railways being built or real wealth creation going on just importing more bank accounts into Auckland and more destruction of the environment that can never be fixed with the attitude of this capitalist rape and pillage govt
    Mr rose colored Key and your silver spoon status pinched from the nation
26. Karen 26

    26 April 2015 at 7:23 pm

    Trending twitter hashtag #casualJohn is worth a look

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/CasualJohn?src=hash
    • Rosemary McDonald 26.1

      26 April 2015 at 10:25 pm

      Clever. Almost makes me wish I had a twitter account.

      Great to see that Helen Kelly is well enough to join in.

      Surely this must be the end for Our Leader….the teflon wears off eventually, then starts to give off toxic fumes….
    • miravox 26.2

      26 April 2015 at 10:36 pm

      I like this one….

      “If you look up antonyms for the word ‘casual’, it’s a list of the traits you want in a Prime Minister”. (Philip Nannestad).

      Also Ryan Foley’s Auntie Helen. Fab!

      The rest are all depressingly true, imo.
    • Once was Tim 26.3

      27 April 2015 at 12:48 am

      Just checked out that link, and was presented with this (amongst many other entries):
      ‘Net Prophet ‏@USOuljah 2h2 hours ago
      “Tin o’ cocoa, tin o’ cocoa car door. Tee hey mouldy aura” #CasualJohn

      I’ll put money on Sia Aston telling poor wee JK to
      Kia Car Door Kia Car Door Proim Munsta on the flight home
      • emergency mike 26.3.1

        27 April 2015 at 2:41 am

        Wow I was just thinking about ‘casual John’ then found the hashtag.

        It’s a great nickname that may well stick. I never quite felt that #ponytailgate was the winner.
27. Puddleglum 27

    26 April 2015 at 9:21 pm

    Here’s a conundrum:

    Does being casual entail not respecting others, harassing them and being unaware of others’ feelings?

    If being casual does entail those things then what’s so admirable about being casual?

    If being casual does not entail those things then how does being casual excuse – or have anything to do with – his objectionable behaviour?
28. Stuart Munro 28

    27 April 2015 at 12:34 am

    If you buy the ‘casual Key’ defence, remember it’s okay to tackle Key any time you see him in an All Black jersey. He’s just asking for it, dressing like that.
29. Observer (Tokoroa) 29

    27 April 2015 at 1:38 am

    @ Stuart Munro

    You are right Stuart. Quite a lot of the lads don’t like creeps who sexually play with the hair of little girls. He is a very dangerous bit of filth. Needs fixing.
30. repateet 30

    27 April 2015 at 10:03 am

    The sooner he turns into a political “casualty” the better.
31. Clemgeopin 31

    27 April 2015 at 10:38 am

    Glad casual hair puller #CasualJohn won't be able to pull anyone's hair on his visit to Saudi Arabia as their women cover heads with hijabs!— Clem Geo Pin (@clemgeopin) April 26, 2015

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