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Open mike 04/05/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 4th, 2011 - 72 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

72 comments on “Open mike 04/05/2011 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    Hone Harawira and Hone Heke.

    John Key and Arnold Schwarzenegger

    When Arnold Schwarzenegger became the governor of a bankrupt California. This widely popular actor, but conservative politician was expected to choose one of two options, either raise taxes or cut services.

    Schwarzenegger caught everyone by surprise by going for a surprise third option. Borrowing heavily to keep the State running.

    The same tactic is being followed by the widely populist John Key like Swartzeneger Key refuses to tax the wealthy, and like swartzeneger he has got into power on his populist image, which he doesn’t want to dent.

    But sooner or later the Nats will have to make the hard decision to reverse this cop out.

    At present John Key is borrowing $300 million a week from overseas rather than make the hard decision between taxing the rich or cutting services, and he will keep doing this until National gets their second term. Then they will feel they have the mandate to make the choice either way, on how to address this deficit.

    The Harawira Hone Heke Tax

    The Key Arnold Schwarzenegger borrowing plan

    But at least these two leaders have a plan.

    • Herodotus 1.1

      So we re introduce the 39% tax bracket. Now if there are opportunities left open (just like Lab did last time) for the targeted wealthy to redivert their earnings to some other vehicle to miminise tax then we do not achieve the desired results. But that aside the result would be instead of borrowing $300m/mth we borrow $290-295m. That also does not take into consideration GST on F&V and the $5k tax free income. Does not change the issue that with all this debt something will have to give, be it reduced govt services, asset sales (But this does not solve the problem) or further tax changes. Under the current financial philosphy we operate under only options as you mentioned cut or increase revenue. Less stressful is to increase NZ ltd GDP. But as we have seen under Lab this in optium times is difficult, especially as this growth was not based on continual substainable growth.
      Something dramatic has to occur.
      There was a table produced by income bands and no of earners within the band sometime ago on this site. Also looked in Treasuy/Dept Stats and IRD could not locate.

  2. logie97 2

    Joky Hen was so keen to get on our screens and tell New Zealand that the world is now a safer place because of the assassination. Seems today’s online poll in the Herald suggests that a massive 77 percent don’t believe him (and that is on 14,000 respondents).

    Yeah, this man really has a handle on international affairs. Wonder when his next around-the-barbecue-discussion is scheduled so he can formulate more foreign policy expertise.

    Maybe he didn’t hear the news correctly and thought his “advisory paper” was referring to Brash’s disposal of Hide. Yeah that’s it.

    • Bill 2.1

      He flip-flopped on that particular piece of wisdom within 24 hours, Logie97.

      What I noticed was that we kept getting the flip-flopped version repeated to us by the media and no-one was willing to pick up on the fact that he had contradicted himself. There was a moment there that I experienced a degree of doubt as to whether I’d picked up his screamingly ludicrous initial ‘assessment’ correctly.

    • ak 2.2

      Joky Hen! luv it logue, inspires Honky Je (sus?)

  3. Carol 3

    Thin end of the wedge?


    A public-private hybrid will oversee rebuilding Christchurch’s quake-battered infrastructure, spending an estimated $2 billion and employing up to 2000 workers.

    Yesterday, government ministers, Christchurch Mayor Bob Parker and other officials gathered to sign an “alliance” agreement with five private contractors charged with rebuilding the city’s infrastructure.

    • Bored 3.1

      Profit rules, yeah we are all safe, in the market we trust. (which translates to saying we are totally fekked).

      Just wondering if the North Shore might come under a state of emergency, the law suspended and the whole rebuild of tornado damage given to Bechtel Corp or similar?

    • millsy 3.2

      To be fair, Carol, a certain government that shall remain nameless decided in their infinte wisdom to kill the old Ministry of Works, and wipe out the engineering and construction expertise that had been built up since 1870. The following decade, local bodies euthanised their public works departments as well.

      The reality is, that we have no option but to go cap in hand to the private sector for the aforementioned expertise as we decided that we didnt need them any more, and now it is too late to get them back without paying *a lot* of money.

      • Colonial Viper 3.2.1

        and now it is too late to get them back without paying *a lot* of money.

        Come now it’s not that difficult, just requires a bit of imagination. Here is one scenario out of a million:

        1) Government starts up a highly independent works business unit under the auspices of an existing SOE. Hires new staff, gives it new budget, brings in experienced managers from around the public and private sector. Might even pull back a few specialist Kiwis from Australia *gasp*.

        2) Announce that there is $2B of work to be done in Christchurch. Any private sector firm which wants a piece of it needs to enter into joint venture with the SOE’s new works business unit, and agree to share knowledge, technology, methods, etc.

        3) Do the work in Christchurch. Massive work, essentially building a new city from the foundations up. Over the next 5 years rapidly build up the capabilities and staffing of this “Works Business Unit” and its Christchurch rebuilding joint venture.

        4) Finish building Christchurch, collapse the massive experience, expertise hardware etc from the joint venture back into the SOE business unit, the private sector elements can go on their merry way, then spin the business unit off into a standalone publicly owned Works, Environmental and Advanced Developments SOE.

        Voilà a fully reformed Government infrastructure arm based on money that you mostly would have had to spend any way to rebuild Christchurch.

        Only takes 5 years and $3B-$4B.

        A complete bargain at that price.

      • Armchair Critic 3.2.2

        …a certain government that shall remain nameless decided in their infinte wisdom to kill the old Ministry of Works…
        Corporatised in 1988 by Douglas and Prebble.
        Assets sold in 1996 under a National government.
        The government still owns the Works and Development Services Corporation, which is the shell company that owned the construction arm and the design and management arm of the Ministry of Works.

        • millsy

          R corporation Ltd (Works and Development Services Corp) was struck off in 2005, after 4 years in liquidation – I presume that it was wound up after historical ‘loose ends’ were tied up.

  4. rosy 4

    A classy, diplomatic way for the Brits to get out of the constitutional nightmare of Key’s invitation to visit in an election year (bet William doesn’t go to the Falklands, but)

    A Royal visit to New Zealand is on the cards for the couple whose wedding stopped the world, but fans of the newlyweds will have to wait until next year for their arrival.

    Prince William looks unlikely to make it to this year’s Rugby World Cup, as was previously tipped, because Buckingham Palace says he will be posted to the Falkland Islands for two months.

  5. aj 5

    How long is it going to take the police to make decisions in the Darren Hughes investigation.

    • Bored 5.1

      Dunno, with any luck they will arrest Goff for aiding and abetting by dint of bad management practices.

      Hell, I said I would sleep through this Goff business, apologies, back to soporific viewing of paint drying.

      • Jim Nald 5.1.1

        What’s the update on the privacy case against darling Paula Bennett?
        The last that I heard many moons ago, the Director of Human Rights Proceedings was supposed to make a call on that?

  6. joe90 6

    RWNJobbery of the day. A coup made him do it.

    • ianmac 6.1

      The comment from one that implied that Obama didn’t want to take out bin Laden because he was a “brother” Muslim. Wonder if there is any truth in the coup report? A bit dodgy?

      • Lanthanide 6.1.1

        Even if Obama secretly felt that he was a “brother Muslim” and therefore shouldn’t be killed, there’s no way he’d ever ever say that to anyone else, either in public or private, simply because of the amount of shit it would stir up should it become known (he’d come up with some other reason). Obama isn’t an idiot.
        Therefore, it’s just a crank story by the birthers who are wildly trying to latch on to their next conspiracy theory.

        • joe90

          I reckon they’re so fearful and/or outraged that a black man from a single parent family was actually elected to high office and they so much want to believe that it’s all a bad dream, ‘a black man as our president’, noooo…., anything goes and the nuttier the better.

          • Jim in Tokyo

            It’s on atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com so it must be true!

            • joe90

              I’m off to the KB sewer to see if Fletch has posted:

              “Whitehouse Coup”,

              ….see, I was right, the military always knew he was a secret mooslem

      • Olwyn 6.1.2

        If Obama has managed to retain a moral compass, despite the nature of his job, he may well have argued in favour of capturing Osama and bringing him before the courts. However, this too seems unlikely. As Fisk puts it, “But a court would have worried more people than Bin Laden. After all, he might have talked about his contacts with the CIA during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, or about his cosy meetings in Islamabad with Prince Turki, Saudi Arabia’s head of intelligence. Just as Saddam – who was tried for the murder of a mere 153 people rather than thousands of gassed Kurds – was hanged before he had the chance to tell us about the gas components that came from America, his friendship with Donald Rumsfeld, the US military assistance he received when he invaded Iran in 1980.”


  7. Samuel Hill 7

    Still no word from Mana as to whether they stand for a separate Maori Parliament, or setting up separate Maori states for the likes of Tuhoe. For me personally this is unacceptable. These lands should never have more than one state, and in realistic terms, it should be unacceptable for NZ to have a neighbouring state on it’s border.

    I think we should also make our National Day October 28, as it was on this day that New Zealand’s independence was declared in 1835 (He Wakaputanga o te Rangatiratanga o Nu Tirene).

    • ianmac 7.1

      Where do you get the “separate Maori Parliament” or “separate Maori states for the likes of Tuhoe,” from Samuel? Nothing like what the Mana Party stands for. Not very helpful old chap.

      • Samuel Hill 7.1.1

        Hone Harawira is the leader of the party is he not? I have already posted links up here in the last couple of day’s where he has been quoted in the past making these kind of statements. Now if you want me to post it again I will, but I will ask you this question. If we are to forget what Harawira has said in the past, should we give Don Brash the same lee-way as to what he said in the past whilst leader of the National Party?

        I don’t think so.

        I really hope you guys who are supporting Mana wake up and smell the coffee.

        • Colonial Viper

          Sorry mate what Hone said before does not make it Mana policy today, nor did it make it Maori Party policy when he was with them.

          Could easily take the same tack with Winston where he said a lot of shit before but that does not mean that it is NZ First policy for this election.

          I still think you are being disingenuous with this tack.

        • NickS

          For fuck’s sake, if you makes factual claims it is entirely up to you to provide teh evidence, not anyone else’s, especially given the search function on this site is pretty good.

          • Samuel Hill

            Alright calm down NickS.

            Tino Rangatiratanga insists on Maori governance.

            From a 2005 article in the Northern Advocate;

            “Meanwhile, Mr Harawira has already broken ranks, saying during Saturday’s victory speech he wanted to reinstate a separate Maori Parliament.”


            Watch this, Harawira says that a separate government has been the “dream of our tipuna for a long time”


            And I quote this from a conversation I had with ‘Te Mana’ on Facebook. Its on their wall for everyone to see.

            “Constitutional transformation consistent with Te Tiriti guarantees and he whakaputanga”

            “Specific issues of institutional reform of parliamentary system is part of larger debate”

            “We have asked Moana Jackson and group lead by him to develop a paper to be discussed at inaugural conference after hone confirms his mandate to lead MANA after by election”

            • Samuel Hill

              So? Mana makes me sick. I have no doubt their rallies will include people waving Tino Rangatiratanga flags. As a New Zealander I find their Maori populist rhetoric only causes more racism and scepticism. Wake up.

              • NickS

                Translation: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, teh Maori’s are gettn upitty! Waaaaaaaaaaa*.

                Because pointing out the Crown still has obligations to fulfil under Te Treati O Waitangi = racism. Instead of say a factual statement, driven by long term socio-economic issues stemming from colonialism and Crown reluctance to honour their legal Treati obligations.

                Shit, you’d think that people might be able to realise that it’s quite possible to move beyond semi-racist mainstream NZ nationalism that tells Maori to effectively ignore their Treati rights to a mind set that sees Maori nationalism as just a movement within NZ that seeks to deal with historical wounds that despite myths otherwise, are still yet to fully heal.

                *Nothing like my fellow Pakeha’s whinging over someone pointing out their privileges involve shitting on others.

                • Samuel Hill

                  We should ignore the treaty, it is a load of fucking shit. They had a war for 20 years after that.

                  And then there are those who say they didn’t sign the treaty.

                  I know my privileges involved not only shitting on others, but raping and killing them. But what privileges do I have that Maori don’t? My ancestors came here in the 1880s, what privileges do I have that Maori don’t? My great-great grandfather put in railroads and then cut down forest to have his own farm. 110 years later I was being raised by a solo mother subject to the whims of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson’s welfare cuts.

                  You tell me what privileges I have that Maori don’t?

                  • NickS

                    Ye Eldar Things, The Stupid, It Burns.

                    So much so, I think I’m going to get off my well padded arse and get some thankfully non-stupid infested air…

                    As for white dude privileges, I’ve given more than a few blunt hints so make use of your brain and work it out.

                  • NickS

                    We should ignore the treaty, it is a load of fucking shit. They had a war for 20 years after that.

                    Except of course the major conflicts with in that time frame where pretty much all to do with treaty violations and the Crown seizing land illegally, as documented under later Waitangi Tribunals. Along with the usual ethnic tensions that come from colonisation and white dudes thinking they have a god-given right to teh land.

                  • ianmac

                    @Samuel: “You tell me what privileges I have that Maori don’t?”

                    You tell me what privileges Maori have that I don’t Samuel?

                    I have asked before but it seems to be taken for granted that they do have plenty. (One chap told me that Maori are accepted into Medical School over the heads of those with higher quals and could qualify as Doctors with lower rquals.. But it turns out that the Selection process has flexibility in choosing students who show promise but have had fewer opportunities. eg Pakeha girl from Rangitata District High. But once in they all have to pass the grade.

                    So you tell me what privileges Maori have that I don’t Samuel?

                    • Samuel Hill

                      I don’t know. I don’t think they have any. Maybe if they are like some of my friends they get cash injections from tribes such as Tainui to go to University. But thats the tribes money, I have no problem with that.

                      This isn’t an issue over what Maori have that I don’t, this is about Maori saying that they don’t have the same rights as Pakeha.

                    • Jasper

                      Maori have privileges to the beaches for free, fresh country ear, oodles of prime beachside property, first dibs on any resource consent application, cushy contracts with the local councils which mean you can’t really do anything without the blessing of kaumatua when it comes to anything political, more weight when it comes to protesting against the rape and pillage of our seabed, a deeper connection with the earth, a great collective culture, wonderful stories, a beautiful unique language (when it’s not being shouted and mangled).

                      If you want to go on about so called “special treatment” we’ve all got our own sectors. Everyone is accepted to university on their own merits. People that selectors know will eventually end up supporting the family financially, the last thing they need to hinder them in supporting anyone other than just themselves, is a crippling loan.

                      It’s a two way street.That being said, we have had an increasing talent in making things as complex as possible for ourselves. It doesn’t have to be.

            • NickS

              Alright calm down NickS.

              I am calm you douchebag, and you have no right to police my state of mind, especially when you should be more focused on arguing your points more effectively.

              From a 2005 article in the Northern Advocate;


              Aside from the fact they’re drawing off the Maori version of Te Treati O Waitangi, which iirc did allow for Maori self-governance, which is the legal basis for the make do Maori Seats in Parliament if memory serves me right. So Hone was, and still is fully reasonable to be after a separate Maori Parliament, which would probably work alongside the one in Wellington given Te Treati, that is unless it proves constitutionally unworkable. However, that’s a future goal, rather than a current one. And besides that, NZ is overdue for a much more in depth discussion of the role of Te Treati in terms of shaping NZ’s constitution, instead of sorting out land seizures in the hope questions of Maori sovereignty slide beneath the surface.

              Besides, that is only one aspect of Mana’s platform, and a myopic focus on it seems a mite trite and somewhat narrow focused, on top of appearing rather ignorant about the Crown’s obligations under Te Treati O Waitangi. Then again, there’s nothing like uppity minorities to get teh middle and lower classes all worked up and making twits out of themselves. Per all the “fun” over beach access…

              Lastly, given what the Crown has done to Tuhoe, they’re fully within their moral rights to withdraw and create a separate microstate. However they what they’ve made clear is that they don’t really want that, and rather what they want is greater rights and responsibilities to do with Te Urewera National Park and former lands not inside there returned to them. Hardly asking for all that much, and well within their rights under Te Treati.

              • Samuel Hill

                Don’t be so pathetic.

                Oh the crown is so bad. How did these Maori tribes get there land in the first place? Oh thats right, they fought, killed, and ate people. British colonisation is just a natural progression of humanity. There was no such thing as ‘Maori’ until the tribes realised that those muskets they had received in exchange for land weren’t as valuable as they first hoped.

                Maori Parliament? Are you crazy.

                They should be worrying about getting a sustainable economy where skills and education for out youth are our priority, increasing our ability for innovation and research which will create new jobs.

                But I’m sure they had it all sussed before the white man arrived.

                • NickS

                  Sorry, what did you say? Because all I can see is a bunch of racist bullshit that denies the well documented past douchebaggery by the Crown over Te Treati that could be summarised in one line of*;

                  WHAAAAAA, TeH Maori’s are gettin uppity!

                  Instead of say a reasoned counter argument that outlines why the Crown perhaps doesn’t have to deal with the issue of Maori Sovereignty via creating a new House of Parliament on the basis of Land ownership and “self determination”. For example. Which I just thought up. In less time that it took you type the above tripe.

                  As for this:

                  But I’m sure they had it all sussed before the white man arrived.

                  Te Treati O Waitangi mo-fo, do you know what it is? Because if the Crown had kept it’s end of the Treati, much of the present socio economic problems might not have been such of an issue for Maori as the Tribes adapted rapidly in peace time to providing a large volume to trade to European settlements.

                  Would there still be poverty? Of course, because current economic systems presently guarantee it, but with ownership maintained over their lands and resources, Maori would obviously be in a much better situation than today. Not that I’m idealising here, because of issues of slavery in tribes and tribal warfare have feed into some of the current issues.

                  * please note this is satire,

                  • Samuel Hill

                    Umm. You seem to be ignoring the fact I have mentioned that THERE WAS A WAR FOLLOWING THE SIGNING OF THE TREATY.

                    Do you want another one?

                    • NickS

                      It takes time to think and type you fool.

                    • NickS

                      Umm. You seem to be ignoring the fact I have mentioned that THERE WAS A WAR FOLLOWING THE SIGNING OF THE TREATY.

                      Which you didn’t think about the reasons for, let alone deal with the historical context and legal and constitutional rulings since then. So perhaps you could try thinking?

                      Do you want another one?

                      LOL WUT?

                      lawl, I do love it when people make statements utterly divorced from reality, but just for fun, would kindly outline your reasons and facts supporting your claim? Because at present I don’t quite get how Maori nationalism is going to be a trigger for a civil war without having to ignore quite a few bits of the present reality of the state of NZ…

                    • Samuel Hill

                      No, I’m saying. What are you gonna do about it? Are Maoris gonna start taking their land back if we don’t give it back? Let them try. Come back to reality where the British Empire could do what they want.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Are Maoris gonna start taking their land back if we don’t give it back? Let them try.(1) Come back to reality where the British Empire could do what they want.(2)

                      (1) And if they try, then what? Fine them? Imprison them? Shoot them? Not really helpful to any one; I guess you are taking the standpoint that no Maori in NZ has any legitimate grievances or claims to NZ land.

                      (2) You understand the the British empire lost its grip on many territories because the “natives” decided that they had enough of colonial injustices and that the British were not welcome or needed any more?

                      I wonder, is what you are saying descriptive of core NZ First policy around Maori and around the Treaty?

                    • Samuel Hill

                      No this is my personal view.

                      Fine them? Imprison them? Shoot them?

                      What would you do to me if I tried to take some land back from you that my Great-grandfather was forced to hand over to another farmer for some reason?

                      Get over it. I don’t own any land. Should I go back to Britain and Holland and spout my historical grievances?

                      If I sign a treaty with you, and then you break the deal… Why should I abide by the agreement?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      What would you do to me if I tried to take some land back from you that my Great-grandfather was forced to hand over to another farmer for some reason?

                      Ummmm…it would depend how you tried to take the land back. If you turned up with mates and baseball bats that’s clearly a police matter. However if you were following a process in the courts, thats another issue.

                      In NZ, providing a process is one reason that the Waitangi Tribunal was set up.

                      And to answer your question – if one side of a treaty or agreement breaks that treaty or agreement, there is still legal due process to follow. That’s another reason that the Waitangi Tribunal was set up. Acting out wildly just because the other party has broken the agreement is very likely to cause your own legal position to degrade.

                      Many contracts state that the breaking of one clause of a contract does not make null and void the rest of the clauses of the contract.

                      It seems to me like you just want to screw due process and go straight to guns. But that’s not what we do very much in civil society today, although your great grandfather might have done that in the late 1800’s.

                      You could go back to Britain and Holland and spout historical grievances. Of course, unless there was a process and mechanism all set up ready to receive you, you are not likely to get very far.

                      In NZ we have those processes and mechanisms already well established.

                    • Samuel Hill

                      Thank you Colonial Viper for engaging with me without getting emotional.

                      What I want for this country is to move forward together. Now if people are coming out speaking in favour of separatism, then I am not interested. If we are going to continue along the path of legally getting land back to Maori, thats fine.

                      But when will it end?

                      Do you not see the frustration of people who simply want to get NZ moving forward. What is happening in this country today is going to see not only Maori land sold to foreign corporates, but the land of ALL New Zealanders.

                      I see October 28 1835 as the day New Zealanders should recognise as the starting date of this country. Not February 6 1840.

  8. NickS 8


    It’s not “softer” as it changes the focus away from users to the suppliers, thus leading to lower wastage on court costs etc, potentially providing more resources to be put towards going after black market suppliers and actually making much greater gains against Class A (and B) drug suppliers. However, given the police’s attitudes towards arming them, instead of making sure there’s two cops in every police car, it comes as not much of a surprise they can’t get their heads around such a simple idea.

    Though personally the reform suggestions should also extend to medical usage of cannabis for long term pain and terminal illness suffers as synthetic cannabinoids for strong pain relief are still in the human testing stage. While some have been cleared for human use, they’re more targeted towards anti-emetics and controlling spasticity and though they do reduce pain they are not yet as effective as the rather addictive opiates or plain old cannabis. Thus I find it ethically a colossal douchebag move to deny those with serious pain a potent and rather less addictive means of controlling pain that opiate pain killers on the basis of cannabis being a “drug”, especially in contrast when considering harm levels to already legal non prescription drugs, such as alcohol and tobacco.

    As for Family First’s claim cannabis is a “gateway drug” a quick perusal of wikipedia shows that they have no fucking idea what they’re talking about as per usual, as the role of cannabis in leading to harder drugs is not clear cut. Of course it’s Family First, who couldn’t science to save their patriarchy loving, child thrashing lives.

  9. Tiger Mountain 9

    ‘The Stroppery’ all stropped out already! Short lived fiesty women blog is no more.

    • NickS 9.1



    • vto 9.2

      Yeah I went there too late and missed out on a clean fight with a fiesty sheila meself. Mind you, don’t have to look too far for more ha ha.

  10. felix 10

    John Key put on a terrible show in parliament yesterday.

    Fumbling his words, talking too fast, tripping himself up and admitting to things he didn’t mean to, whining voice getting ever higher and more shrill.

    In short he was scared. Totally defensive. His only attempt to give some back fell flat.

    His leadership has been called into question by having Brash calling the shots in his cabinet. He looked weak. He felt weak.

    Smell his fear.

    • NickS 10.1

      …And yet he keep on smiling for the media about it like nothings wrong.

      I think I need a better nerf gun for shooting politician’s images on the TV. However, The Witcher 2 is out this month…

    • M 10.2

      ‘Smell his fear’

      felix, where can I get this perfume?

      • Colonial Viper 10.2.1

        Links on Parliament TV up yet?

        Wonder what English is thinking?

        The rise of Brash – has been engineered by forces in National without Key’s consent???

        That would be an interesting development. The struggle within National continues.

        • M

          ‘Wonder what English is thinking?’

          Good point CV – was wondering that myself. Bill must be wondering if he’d be safer in Fukushima at the moment.

          Can’t decide who’s going to best the other in the ultimate hollow-out.

          Look out Key, remember what happened to Rodders when he courted the serpent.

    • Jim Nald 10.3

      Shonkey going weak at the knees … at the thought that head office might be making up their mind that the time is nigh to move him on.

  11. And it is now reconfirmed.  Brash is a climate change denier.
    God help New Zealand if he gets his hands on the levers of power.

  12. prism 12

    I wanted to contact you Lynn but send button is stubbornly blocking me.

    • lprent 12.1

      Yeah I got e-mailed about that yesterday. They were on Mac/Safari. Looks like something broke and it isn’t obvious. I’ll be trying to look at it again tonight.

      You can e-mail me at lprent [at] primary.geek.nz as well

  13. Pascal's bookie 13

    John Cole at Balloon Juice is correct insofar that this is pure win:


  14. higherstandard 14

    Well I never thought it would happen but compared to the Don and Hone on Closeup, Phil and John are looking quite statesman like.

    Fucking politicians in this country what a pack of chimps.

    • PeteG 14.1

      While they both scored some hits and had some strong points there were weaknesses and duds as well.

      Brash has to lean not to slouch and back away, Harawira looked skyward with seeming disinterest.

      I didn’t learn much new from the “debate”, except that Harawira talks with passion about Maori issues but talks in slogans when he switches to the activism of convenience, helping the poor and the workers (and I have no idea how he will help them).

      Brash seemed to tack on the ETS as an afterthought, maybe he didn’t have the time or opportunity but it is something he didn’t try and explain at all.

      • Pascal's bookie 14.1.1

        Brash saying he ‘believes in the Treaty’ and property rights.

        Crazy old coot was going nationalise the F&S just because a court said iwi might own some of it.

        And that was thing that made him get his precious 39.1 percent of the vote that he’s so proud of.

        Shit doesn’t add up.

        • PeteG

          his precious 39.1 percent

          He keeps repeating that as if he earned every one single handed, it’s wearing thinner than a Warehouse négligée.

          • Colonial Viper

            it’s wearing thinner than a Warehouse négligée.

            This has my nomination for The Standard commentator’s metaphor of the month!!!!

            “négligée” with all the cute french accents too, what a treat! 😀

          • M


            Your bon mots gem is much appreciated by this word-addled Celt.

  15. Colonial Viper 15

    Finance Hub worth $B to NZ


    What a joke, this takes prostituting ourselves to the financial markets to John Key’s level.

    But I guess Ireland has done real well out of it.

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