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Open Mike 14/09/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 14th, 2016 - 153 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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153 comments on “Open Mike 14/09/2016”

  1. Paul 1

    DOC criticised for allowing cows in river.

    • Cinny 2.1

      After watching the interaction with Winny and Blingish in the house yesterday, I’m feeling even more confident that he won’t go with the nasty nats

    • Enough is Enough 2.2

      But we don’t Winston Trump with us either.

      Lets be ambitious for the Left and strive for a Labour/Green government with no NZFirst bigots anywhere near the cabinet room

  2. Ffloyd 3

    I see that Key will be winning the next election, as decreed by the Herald.

    • Paul 3.1

      The Herald.
      What a rag.

    • Cinny 3.2

      Lolz I read that propaganda too.

      • Paul 3.2.1

        I am certain the media has played a major role in sustaining 9 years of extreme neoliberal rule over this country.
        Just imagine how a neutral press would deal with Key and his gang. We got a brief glimpse he would not have coped from the BBC Hard Talk interview a few years ago.
        Then imagine if Key had to face the outright hostility and partisanship of a left wing media. He would not have lasted 6 months.
        Who owns the media is a BIG part of the problem

        • Colonial Viper

          I am certain the media has played a major role in sustaining 30 years of extreme neoliberal rule over this country.


        • Draco T Bastard

          Who owns the media is a BIG part of the problem


          Another example of capitalism failing.

  3. Garibaldi 4

    Don’t read the Herald. It’s that simple. Reading that crap only encourages them and increases their “readership” .

  4. Colonial Viper 5

    Some useful information on signs, symptoms, treatment and caring of late stage Parkinsons disease.

    It usually takes many years for a case to progress to this stage, and it will be obvious to close friends, family and colleagues.


    • joe90 5.1

      Considering his family history, Trump’s memory loss, lies and confabulation raise the possibility that we’re witnessing early-onset dementia and paint a pretty grim picture regarding his mental competence.

      That’s the real health concern in this election.


      (see, two can play)

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1

        I didn’t mention anything about the US Presidential elections or candidates.

        Trump is releasing the results of his full medical in a couple of days, and I agree that his data should be fully examined and questioned.

        Meanwhile, you need to consider the mounting evidence in front of your nose.

      • Gabby 5.1.2

        Those poor poor yanker bastards really have nobody to vote for.

    • TheExtremist 5.2

      You actually expect us believe you weren’t making a pointed comment about Clinton?

      • Colonial Viper 5.2.1

        Consider it an exercise in free association.

        • TheExtremist

          Bullshit – it was attempt to again twist the conversation to your agenda

          • McFlock

            while being too cowardly to own the bulshit point he was making.

            My “free association” path went thusly:
            monomaniacal obsessive who’s been inventing and spreading rumours about the health of a candidate he doesn’t like posts random article on a degenerative disease. Sudden cure for his obsession? Unlikely. More likely another smear, this time more cowardly after being ripped into for overtly inventing shit.

          • Colonial Viper

            And what “agenda” is that, TheExtremist? Remember, Bill Clinton’s DNC Chair has come forward publicly and said that the party needs to consider readying a contingency plan covering Hillary withdrawing due to health reasons.

            • Andre

              Amanda Marcotte nails it, again: “Clinton’s health is Obama’s birth certificate all over again: A barely disguised way for conservatives to wallow in bigotry”


              • One Two

                That the articles premise appeals to your own fears does not mean ‘it was nailed’

                The comparison is a false equivalence

                The only way Clintons health is not a serious problem based on the ‘evidence’ available is if the entire situation is a hoax…

                Sick or a hoax are the only options Andre!

                • Andre

                  Pneumonia is almost always easily cured by antibiotics and rest.

                  What ails Trump and his supporters, no easy remedy.

                  • McFlock

                    well – a functioning education system and effective counselling when warning signs are first exhibited, maybe.

                  • One Two

                    Andre, your responses and perspective are barley at an elementary level using your comments for reference

                    The current POTUS is a war mongering Nobel Peace Prize Laureatte, then the party you appear to favour were exposed for committing a form of electoral fraud to ensure that a physically and mentally ill candidate would ‘prevail’ at ANY cost

                    My opinion is that perspectives such as yours are a primary reason why The USA is the disaster nation it now is. The ‘average american’ has allowed it to eventuate and are 99% responsible for the national and international wrong doings. The same is true in NZ and elsewhere, the ‘average kiwi’ is perpetuating the problems

                    Attachmemt to the system, any system is the problem so why are you seemingly comfortable as an American citizen to enable the farce to continue by taking a side?

                    Doing so lowers your own level

                    • Andre

                      Ok One Two, here’s a challenge for you. Explain to us why it will be better if Trump gets elected than if Clinton wins. With evidence.

                      Here’s your incentive. If you persuade me, I’ll have a go at persuading my friends and rellies. There’s around 20 votes I might be able to influence, most of them in swing states.

                      Go on, show us the power of those higher frequencies you hear that you keep telling us about.

                    • One Two []

                      Andre you are entirely missing the point…

                      What you the friends and rellies need to be doing is identifying the total disaster that is USA politics, and every system of governance/administration executive branch etc which directly and indirectly hangs from the rotten corpse that’rules the world’

                      It doesn’t matter who you vote for, the deck is stacked on all sides it makes no difference which broken soul becomes POTUS. Look at the core outcomes it’s all the same and then ask yourself WHY the direction isn’t changing

                      Detaching from the ‘drama’ is the best course of action because feeding it with energy is to endorse what the status quo represents

                    • Andre

                      “Detaching from the drama” certainly seems attractive while sucking on a bong. But even if I (and my friends and rellies) successfully detach, in late January next year either Clinton or Trump will be inaugurated as POTUS.

                      Should we choose to, in the real world, we could have a very small influence on which one of those it will be. And despite what your higher frequencies are telling you, the entire world will have a very different future depending on which one of those two becomes POTUS. Just like the world would now almost certainly be a very different place had Gore become POTUS instead of Bush the lesser.

                      There is literally nothing I or my rellies and friends can realistically do to bring about anything more than incremental reform of the rotten system the real world has delivered us.

                      If you disagree and think there are actual actions we could realistically do that will bring about actual change, please do tell. Because detaching to listen to the higher frequencies just lets the rotten bastards further consolidate their hold.

                    • One Two []

                      Andre I understand your semtiments as well as the desire for influence into the process

                      There are a number of assumptions in your comment which are not at all “reality’ based

                      Reality needs to be created, it should not be created for you, because then you are allowing others to create ‘your reality’. Others who already destroy kill and maim as standard practice

                      Continuing to support the decayed corpse will only serve to prolong its existence to the detriment of all living and life giving systems

                      The status quo will remain if given oxygen. It can’t and won’t be ‘changed’ by feeding it nor is there time to waste on wishful ‘incrimentalist’ fantasy

                      I appreciate it’s not an easy concept to wrap ones consciousness around, but failing to do so ensures a rapid decline in human existence along with the natural world

                      Genuine change will happen outside the systems you belive can be changed from within…staying involved with systems you can’t ever beat ensures that violent outcomes will only increase for ‘all’

                      Make change make plans make a garden and control the outcomes by creating your own reality

                      That is the essence of ‘life’

    • Rosie 6.1

      That was an excellent article thanks marty mars. All 10 points are situations we’ve all witnessed, or many of us will have observed.

      One thing that jumped out was the “percentage question”. Pakeha just don’t get asked this, as white, we’re seen as just white. Some of us with Celtic roots will talk among one another about our own genealogy , often it turns out our ancestors came from the same areas, and if your family is from the Highlands of Scotland you can almost count on being related. It’s never discussed in a percentage term. Like a piece of maths.

      But Maori are.

      I grew up with this “percentage” faux fixation because the Pakeha side of the family was always intrigued to see how they could break down the Maori side of family into ethnic units. (It was the 70’s!) What blew that outdated old way of looking at things was a visit to a Robyn Kahukiwa exhibition.

      The Maori friend I was with took me over to a female mannequin who had been painted over with lines forming squares and other shapes with numbers and a percentage sign in those marked out areas. My friend said “see, the numbers don’t matter, the woman is still a whole woman”. Visually, the mannequin looked like it was a side of beef about to be carved up. The artist was making a point about how crass and false this speak of percentages is. Good learnings from younger years.

    • Chooky 6.2

      RNZ and Kathryn Ryan have done some good interviews lately

      ‘What does it mean to be ‘White Māori’?’


      “Victoria University students, Kahu Kutia and Kayla Polamalu talk to Kathryn Ryan about growing up with two different identities in New Zealand, and about the term ‘White Māori’.

      They have Māori and Pākehā parentage. Recently Kahu wrote an article for the Victoria University’s magazine, Salient, titled If You’re From Waimana, Why Are You White?…

      ‘Actor’s love affair with the language’ -Jennifer Ward-Lealand started learning Te Reo Māori by attending weekly night classes


  5. Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster) 7

    Latest Polls Show Nominating Hillary Was A Huge Mistake

    “When the people are presented with a Republican, or someone who sounds like a Republican, they choose the Republican every time.”

  6. Colonial Viper 8

    it is almost awe inspiring to recognise how the Deep State working in coordination with the mass media can keep massive secrets from people for years.

    And how willing and easily dozens of people are willing to act together to deceive the public in the pursuit of seeking and maintaining power.

    • Garibaldi 8.1

      Yes CV .Like Kennedy and 9/11.

      • Chooky 8.1.1

        +100…and it is amazing how many put their heads in the sand when the official story lines are leaking with inconsistencies, false reports… and lies , lies, lies

        …the stooges are always countering and supporting the official story, even when academics and engineers and insiders and impartial observers disagree with the official story ( the stooges denigrate them as Conspiracy theorists or truthers)

        Deep State has tentacles everywhere

  7. Chooky 9

    Corporate corruption in politics ( Brexit was a good thing then?)

    ‘Time to rethink EU as Manuel Barroso heads to Goldman Sachs’


    “Manuel Barroso will be seen as a lobbyist and is going to have a big problem wielding influence on behalf of the Goldman Sachs, economist and author Keith Boyfield told RT.

    The former EU president is to face an ethics inquiry over taking a lucrative role as adviser at US investment bank Goldman Sachs…

  8. The Lone Haranguer 10

    Please educate me.

    Most polls seem to have about a 3% wriggle room clause in them when they get reported to the public. The other day a poll came out, again with a 3% margin of error.

    So does that mean the party on 46% could be between 43% and 49% and the party on 2% could be -1% and 5%, or does it mean a 46% party could be between 44.6% and 47.4%


    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Yeah its an absolute +/-3%

      So 2% = a range of 0% to 5%

    • McFlock 10.2

      No, it’s not an “absolute”.

      The error bounds indicate how close the observation of the random sample is likely to be to the actual support of the population, based on the arbitrary “confidence” level the pollsters chose. You can’t have “-1” popularity, so the error margin narrows the farther away from the 50% central value you get.

      Roughly speaking, if you have a survey has a confidence leval of 95% and the error margin is +-3%, you would expect the actual support in the country to be 47 to 53% 95% of the time, but there’s a 1 in 20 chance that the actual value is outside that 47:53 range. The farther outside that range, the lower the probability though.

      However, if a party was much farther away from the center in the survey, say on 5% or 95% support (in a normal distribution it’s symmetrical), the 95% confidence margin for error would be only say 1.4%, so the party’s actual support might be 3.6% to 6.4%, 19 out of 20 times.

      check out the bottom of this report from Roy Morgan.

      proviso: the assumption above is based on random samples from throughout the voting population. In reality, there could well be systemic errors that push the observed results farther away from the actual, e.g. phoning lots of people who just want to talk, while the people who are busy tell the pollsters to go away. The might not get representative samples of young people, or minorities, so they give the respondents they do get from those groups greater weight to estimate what would happen if the socioeconomic distribution of their sample actually matched the population. And so on. It’s slightly better than crystal ball gazing, but often not much.

      All of the above is why one survey or datapoint is meaningless – you can’t form an opinion without long term trends over all polls, and by then it’s meaningless because the polls are too far apart and inconsistent. And you sure can’t attribute a single poll result to what happened during the poll period, journalists and pollsters love doing it but it’s fucking stupid. You might be able to look at the trends before and after, and if you’re really lucky you can see a sudden jump/drop in the trend at the same time that the event happened in a vacuum, but those are few and far between and generally only good for academics looking back from a distance.

      ps: CV doesn’t know shit.

      • Colonial Viper 10.2.1

        I clarified their understanding of the margin of error in 1/20 of the words you used.

        I stand by my use of “absolute” +/-3% as opposed to 3% (1/34) of whatever the poll result was.

        I admit though yours is the most technically correct answer.

        ps: CV doesn’t know shit.

        Don’t be so childish. Sticks and stones.

        • McFlock

          No, you gave a completely incorrect response:

          Yeah its an absolute +/-3%

          So 2% = a range of 0% to 5%

          No. The margin for error exponentially reduces as it approaches the fringes.
          A 2% observation might only have an MoE in the ballpark of 0.5% or less, depending on sample size. A 0.5% observation might have an MoE of 0.03%.

          The question was specific, as was your answer. Your answer was specifically incorrect. It clarified nothing, and suggested that Mana might be regarded as having as much as 3.5% popularity when it polls a barely-detectable 0.5%.

          You were utterly misleading and outright wrong. Saying that you don’t know shit was going light on you, given that this is a secondary-school level error.

  9. Draco T Bastard 11

    3 Ways the Trans Pacific Partnership Will Help Corporations—While Ruining the Climate

    Trade rules should move countries together towards sustainability. Instead, they consistently allow multinational corporations to continue polluting.

    Free trade deals, and in particular the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), have taken a beating this election season. Most of the noise on trade from Presidential candidates Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton has focused on the loss of jobs linked to the offshoring. Much less attention has been paid to the serious impact the TPP and past trade agreements will have on our ability to respond to climate change.

    In a new report on the TPP and climate commitments made by countries as part of the Paris climate agreement, we found that trade rules consistently benefit multinational corporations in high greenhouse gas emitting sectors like agriculture and energy, while creating barriers for governments in setting climate-related policies.

    Our analysis found that the Trans Pacific Partnership expands the scope of past trade agreements to harm the climate in three important ways:

    As I say, much easier and better to set standards that other countries must meet before we trade with them rather than FTAs that force us to trade with those not up to our standards.


    The official signing of the Paris climate treaty is an important first step toward a global response to climate change. But no climate deal will work if it is not supported by other policies. The TPP and the WTO are outdated trade regimes modeled on 19th century ideas. The 21st century demands something very different—trade rules that move countries together towards sustainability, starting with the urgent need to curb greenhouse gas emissions and support adaptations to climate change.


  10. Brigid 12

    I got an email from Greenpeace this morning. It said,
    “Early this morning we travelled to the proposed site of the Ruataniwha irrigation dam in Hawke’s Bay. With a small crane we uplifted the construction site office, put it on the back of a truck and drove it 100kms to Napier. There we left it at the door of the Hawke’s Bay Regional Council (HBRC).”

    • rhinocrates 13.1

      A hard-headed assessment of Labour’s performance cannot but conclude that the party lacks talent along with basic political competence. Contrast its current frontbench with those that preceded Labour victories in 1984 or 1999.

      (Very) Little’s way of dealing with the deadwood of his party has been abject surrender to their demands for status, blocking the promotion of much-needed latent to the front bench. Robertson is the most egregious example, a lazy imbecile with Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, he’s on the front bench because no one in their right mind would let him sit behind them. Now he’s in the spotlight, we can all see just how inadequate he is… when he actually bothers to do anything (which is usually appropriating someone else’s work).

      Maybe that’s Little’s cunning plan, but I doubt it. I wouldn’t credit him with that much imagination.

      Appeasing the likes of Robertson and Hipkins shows that Labour is still paralysed by its internal politics and prioritises those over its duty as an opposition or government in waiting.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        he’s on the front bench because no one in their right mind would let him sit behind them.

        This is also the same place Cunliffe fell over badly.

        But according to the UMR poll LAB+GR is clear ahead of NAT right now so they are doing it right?

        • rhinocrates

          Never underestimate Labour’s ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

          • Colonial Viper

            I think Kevin Hague did similar maths in his head.

            • rhinocrates

              He has ability and is in demand, so he has somewhere to go as well.

              That I suppose is the problem Labour has. It’s current frontbenchers are unemployable elsewhere, so they cling to their positions, blocking any rising talent, who become disaffected. Even younger people don’t even see the point in trying for selection if they see that their careers will go nowhere.

              The best Little can do in the short term is shine some light on the less senior MPs – give them a chance to speak on issues if not complete portfolios, or pair them with seniors on specific campaigns such as the housing crisis so they get some attention and experience.

        • Puckish Rogue

          I know people will call Quinn a traitor but this line:

          “Contrast its current frontbench with those that preceded Labour victories in 1984 or 1999.”

          Really should give cause for concern shouldn’t it?

          • rhinocrates

            I would hope that a Labour-led coalition government could import talent from its partners, but I fear that the deadwood MPs will all demand the plum jobs and LIttle will give in to them, relegating capable members from other parties to roles as Assistant Minister of Tea and Scones and suchlike.

            • Red

              Fortunately opposition(s) talent pool is razor thin so this should not be an issue, finding enough people to fill cabinet will be the biggest concern, it’s not going to happen so again not really anything to worry about Rhino

      • Pat 13.1.2

        if we are going to fret upon a lack of front bench talent i submit the following….Hon. Gerry Brownlee, Steven Joyce, Paula Bennet,Jonathan Coleman,Simon Bridges,Hekia Parata, Anne Tolley, Nick Smith, Murray McCully, Judith Collins and Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga.

  11. The Chairman 14

    Key said “if you act in a violent and controlling way, you can change this behaviour. Own the problem. Nothing will get better until you do. Ask for help. There is no shame in that.”


    Very good. However, with the sharing of more information coupled with allowing others to apply for protection orders (and with offenders soon being marked as family violence offenders for life) what are the consequences of someone asking for help?

    Moreover, will it deter people from willingly coming forward?

    Will the sharing of more information result in people becoming less willing to initially share their information?

  12. The Chairman 16

    Peters said MPs should not be “considering their own comforts” at a time when 40,000 people were homeless, and young people struggled to find a home.

    He went on to say “claims that Opposition parties backed the plan were “simply not true”.

    NZ First made it “very clear’ when approached that it would not sign up to the project.


    Where do Labour and the Greens stand on this one?

  13. The Chairman 17

    Information on peoples credit ratings, debt levels, housing histories and the social services they had been provided with to be shared to save the homeless?

    Renters may have to endure tenancy sustainment courses.

    New policy may force private landlords to provide longer tenure.


  14. Cinny 19

    Bravo to The Queen, Q1 in Parliament today is fantastic, Annette King asking the outgoing PM about Louise Upton and the Chiefs.

    Asking if outgoing PM is a good representative for women considering his pony tail pulling. Backed up by the Greens most awesome Jan Logie.

    Want to see a bumbling bullying outgoing PM? Watch question one, kudos to the Ladies and Winston. Love your work. Bravo

  15. Takere 20

    Awesome to see the Act party recognise the Treaty of Waitangi & also validating the Settlement process by agreeing with Te Ohu Kaimoana’s beef with the Crown, psycho Nick Smith and the confiscation of property rights over the arbitrary claim of the Kermadec rights to fish by the Crown. Poor ole John Ansell… iwi 1, Rednecks 0?

    • marty mars 20.1

      The kermadec issue will distance some Māori from the Greens if they don’t watch out. They being the greens.

    • Macro 20.2

      Umm actually it wasn’t anything to do with Act recognising the Treaty… more to do with a few fishing companies 5 to be precise:
      ““This Bill amounts to an uncompensated regulatory taking, likely to cause real harm to the livelihoods of those in the fishing industry,” says ACT Leader David Seymour.”

      • Takere 20.2.1

        Arrrh’m Bullshit! Context. Property Rights. You need a legally binding contract. The Treaty is that vehicle.Need I say anymore?

  16. Colonial Viper 21

    How do you become US ambassador to NZ like Mark Gilbert did?

    Be the 27th biggest donor to the Democratic Party (US$1.4M) total.


  17. Colonial Viper 22

    Analysis of Secret Service and campaign staffer performance at Clinton’s 9/11 health incident.

    My question: if your VIP protectee was diagnosed with pneumonia 2 days ago, and then appears to nearly and unexpectedly collapse, why would you take your protectee to her daughter’s apartment instead of to the ER of a top level hospital?


    • marty mars 22.1

      Yeah why?WHY??? What the hell are they trying to achieve? What are they trying to hide? Something is going on here, something is rotten, something smells. I can FEEL the bad vibe here, anyone could if we’re attuned.

      • Colonial Viper 22.1.1

        If your VIP protectee had just been diagnosed with pneumonia 2 days before then unexpectedly almost collapses for no known reason, it rates as a potential medical emergency.

        Unless the support team already knows at the time what the cause of the VIP’s near-collapse is.

        • marty mars

          Yes exactly!!! by the diagnosis 2 DAYS BEFORE!!! The no known reason has a reason.

          • Colonial Viper

            An older person almost collapsing due to pneumonia is a medical emergency.

            Instead of rushing to the nearest top level ER, the Secret Service elects to let their protectee go to her daughters apartment?

            • McFlock

              oh, piss off.

              Known issue, known cause, known treatment, no emergency.

            • marty mars

              If what you say is true cv why haven’t those secret service people been arrested and charged. Their most public client let down!!!! Oh that’s right it’s not true just a boys own fantasy.

            • mauī

              Agree with CV, there is something odd going on here. Such a trustworthy candidate would always come clean on her medical condition.. right…

              • Colonial Viper

                Her campaign team has been deliberately concealing her condition.

                At the VERY least, her pneumonia diagnosis on Fri, claim from her campaign team at the time of the incident that it was just simple “overheating” (when they clearly knew different), photo-op 2 hrs after outside Chelsea’s apartment with declarations of ‘going great again’ (when they clearly knew different), then a few hours after that, final acknowledgement of the supposed actual diagnosis from the Friday.

  18. The Chairman 23

    If Labour announced a $40 increase in benefit payments across the board (helping to address poverty and all the problems that come along with that, improve inequality and stimulate the economy) would that help give them traction in the polls?

    It would help business returns (especially in the struggling regions) as beneficiaries tend to spend most of their income.

    It would help encourage those in the lower social economic group that don’t tend to vote partake.

    It could be paid for by taxing the very top end of income earners (improving wealth redistribution) coupled by the increase in the GST take and higher business returns.

    Would it be a vote winner or not?

    • Puckish Rogue 23.1

      Depends, those on a benefit would vote for it but those paying the extra tax might think differently

      But then the ones on a benefit are less likely to vote National anyway so I suppose it might convince those on a benefit to get out and vote for a left wing party

      • The Chairman 23.1.1

        Yes, no doubt beneficiaries and a number of business owners would support it.

        And no doubt a number at the top end (who are unlikely to vote Labour anyway) would oppose it.

        But beneficiaries coupled with a number of business owners would outnumber them.

        It would certainly create a buzz and get more people taking note of Labour.

        I suppose the next question is, what are you waiting for Labour?

        • Sabine

          why don’t you ask them?

          • The Chairman

            They sniff around here, therefore I just did.

            By the way, do you support it?

            Perhaps if we can created a large enough consensus on here, they may take heed.

            • Sabine

              i supported Labour in the last election when they advocated a Capital Gains Tax, and increase in the min wage to 16.50 (or 16 per hour not so sure anymore) and many many other things. So there is always that.

              • The Chairman

                That’s nice to know, but do you support my suggestion?

                And if not why not?

                • Colonial Viper

                  UBI $40 pw for every >16 year old would be better IMO but we can start with existing benefits (incl Super I presume).

                  • The Chairman

                    I largely support a UBI but this will fill the gap in the meantime.

                    Moreover, this will allow Labour to give voters something of substance that they can resonate with, which will help Labour lift their profile and get over the line.

                    Talk of a tax working group didn’t create much hype, whereas this would.

              • Colonial Viper


    • Chuck 23.2

      “If Labour announced a $40 increase in benefit payments across the board (helping to address poverty and all the problems that come along with that, improve inequality and stimulate the economy) would that help give them traction in the polls?”

      Problem is Labour has already signaled a number of policies it will introduce if in Government come 2017, which all cost big $$. They will need to find another few billion $ for this idea as well Chairman.

      Yep increasing the tax rate for “rich pricks” is an option, and one that Labour is already factoring in. Having said a “tax working group” will be formed to advise on tax matters etc (once they are in Government).

      National has been the only party to increase benefit payments over and above the rate of inflation for decades.

      Would it be a vote winner for Labour? No, not to any great extent. Labour need to appeal to middle NZ to form the next Government…even if that grates with many on this blog.

      • The Chairman 23.2.1

        “Problem is Labour has already signaled a number of policies it will introduce if in Government come 2017…”

        And one would assume they have a way to pay for them.

        “Labour need to appeal to middle NZ”

        Are you implying business owners aren’t? Moreover, Labour has been trying to win over the middle for years now and it hasn’t been working out for them.

        This covers both ends (middle and lower) therefore has far more potential gain.

        National increasing benefits didn’t hurt their support.

        “A “tax working group” will be formed to advise on tax matters etc (once they are in Government)”

        They got to get into government first, this (my suggestion) would help with that.

        • Colonial Viper

          Labour’s idea of “middle NZ” is the comfortable middle class 20% swing voting household. Stupid really.

          • Sabine


            • Colonial Viper

              you’re not my grandmother.

              Further, my point is spot on. Like “affordable” $600,000 Auckland houses. Who does that policy target.

              Definitely not blue collar waged workers.

              • b waghorn

                If they could build 10,000 houses a year a lot of older house would become cheaper and people that can afford the $600k ones will probably free up rentals and apartments.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Auckland house trickle down, never thought of it like that before

                  • b waghorn

                    If they arseholed the investors out of the game and slowed the immigration numbers right down it would help to.

                    although i think we need to shift to a lease hold system with the gov owning the land .

                  • joe90

                    house trickle down

                    Highest new car sales ever means soon enough damn nice five year old motor vehicles will be available at the right price.

                    There’s no second hand car crisis, CV.

              • Sabine

                Auckland is the largest City in NZ, it is the most populated City in NZ and to expect house prices like in Dunedin is simply simple minded.

                IF and when NZ’lers start buying houses not as a thing to flip and make money on, but to buy and to live in and keep in the family like it is done in many old european cities including London, Paris, Rome, Florence and even in US Cities like NY you will see that 600.000$ is very affordable as you can raise several to un-count generations in that very same house.

                But the thing is really with you CV is that you are so full of hate towards anything Labour that you rather see some revolution come along that burns everything and makes everyone homeless then support the ones that are full of flaws but are at least trying. And starting to build houses/apartments/units is the very first step to bring prices down.

                So yes, 600.000$ for land (cause no one is buying a house, stop deluding yourself here) in the middle of million people City is affordable. Maybe not for one generation, but for two or three. And that is precisely how it is done in many place all over this planet. I mean heck, try to buy a house in Berlin, Rome, Paris, NY, London and tell me how ‘affordable’ that is.

                Good morning CV, welcome to the 21 century, let me assure again, the 80’s are long gone, and the only one crying after the good old days are those that remember them.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Thats everyone over 50, the demographic which actually votes.

                  • Sabine

                    yes, dear.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Why do you keep trying to speak to me like you are my grandma?

                      By the way, what is “simple minded” are the fools like you who believe that you should keep stuffing Auckland full of people, while small towns and cities throughout the provinces slowly shut down shop.

                • Pat

                  actually the eighties were pretty crap

                  • Sabine

                    i know. i remember them. But then i do not cry after about what happened during them.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Fuck your condescending infantalising of long time Kiwis who suffered through that time, who lost their homes, who lost their factories, who lost their careers, who lost their families.

                      Labour sowed neoliberalism upon our shores, and Labour has deservedly reaped the electoral whirlwind of their actions.

                    • RedLogix

                      Thank you CV. When the Lange govt was elected almost no-one had the slightest clue what Douglas and his crew of wreckers was about to inflict on us. In the aftermath of Muldoon’s sour and bullying leadership all we wanted was a change. Of course Lange’s charisma, sharp wit and geniality turned out to be a smoke screen.

                      For quite a few years a large chunk on NZ was completely taken in by Douglas. Including the much younger and naive version of myself. (And in another thirty years time I predict some other dude will ruefully be saying the same thing about John Key). This was all before the internet and most of our political information was filtered through the NZ Herald.

                      A lot of credit must go to people like Jim Anderton and those within the NZLP who had a much better understanding of what was going on and fought against it as best they could. That’s a whole other story that doesn’t get much airtime these days.

                    • Pat

                      then it is curious you select them as your example of ‘the good old days”..no?

                • RedLogix

                  Hi grandma.

                  as you can raise several to un-count generations in that very same house.

                  Yes my family still owns a house in Epsom and on paper it makes us quite well off, but we’re of the same basic notion that we never intend to sell it … so all that paper wealth is fairly meaningless.

                  Your basic premise is a good one, but most NZ housing is designed around the needs of a single nuclear family and just aren’t suited to multiple generations living in the same home.

              • Nic the NZer

                That policy area is a complete fabrication, its impossible to achieve a significant influence on Auckland house prices (without causing an unwanted market crash). No govt can keep up with the level of supply and shifts in supply needed to control that.

                If we are lucky then Labour goes about achieving a big increase in subsidized social housing in order that people who will not be in a position to own a house can have some assurance that they can have somewhere to live.

                But they are not marketing that policy (unless you actually pay attention to what they are planning to do) they are saying that house prices are too high (as a way of signaling to their voter base) and implying they are going to do something about it! But people who vote hoping to see that will be as disappointed as serious Libertarians are by Key’s government.

                On the other point, Labour may still have some ideas for working class people but in general have no interest in their political concerns or fixing that relationship.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Pretty much, but plenty of people around here still give Labour’s efforts solid passing grades for some reason.

                  None of our political leaders seem to have any concept of physical reality, or even on the optimum role of government in ensuring the interests of the people.

  19. Ad 24

    Government and Auckland Council have today signed Heads of Agreement on NZ’s most expensive infrastructure project to date: Cit Rail Link. Between $2.5 and $3.4b.

    It’s a Crown company not a CCO. Therefore OIA and not LGOIMA applies. Makes reporting less constrained but less public.

    Either way, big deal. Very different model to Chch rebuild.

    And more to come tomorrow in broader Ak funding package.

  20. Patrick Cummoskey 26

    We are not inbred ferals!!! I know for a fact that my parents were not related!!!

  21. Ad 27

    Not sure why the Green Party aren’t supporting the Government to get the Kermadec Marine Reserve Bill through the House. Seems like an easy win.

  22. This could be interesting over the next 24/48 hours,


    Beipaotai China, looks to be in the path of Maranti ?
    Looking on Google Earth it looks like a nuclear power plant, like meters from the ocean.
    This was a 2009/ 2011 article but it shows several plants being built in the area? http://www.jsm.or.jp/ejam/Vol.1.No.3/GA/6/article.html

  23. Anthony 29

    We see a lot on the Auckland mayoralty race, but almost nothing on other races- mayor or otherwise – from round the country.

    Is this due to a lack of info, a lack of interest, or a lack of input by local candidtes?

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