Banks found guilty of Electoral Fraud

Written By: - Date published: 2:21 pm, June 5th, 2014 - 278 comments
Categories: act, john banks - Tags:

John Banks pants on fire

The decision is out and John Banks has been found guilty of electoral fraud.  I will post a link to the judgment and some analysis later.  Basically the Judge must have thought that Banks knew about the donations and engineered things so that the campaign treasurer could prepare a return recording the Dotcom and Sky City donations could be listed as being anonymous.

There was ample evidence.  The splitting of Dotcom’s donation into two $25,000 cheques and the handing to Banks of the Sky City cheque persuaded the Judge that Banks knew where the donations came from.  His failure to tell the treasurer and his signing of the returns which were clearly wrong persuaded the Judge that he deliberately signed a false return.

The history of the matter should be reflected on.  It was started as a private prosecution by a company controlled by Graeme McCready and assisted by Penny Bright.  The Crown only took over the case part way through the process.  It is with the benefit of hindsight inconceivable that a prosecution against a Cabinet Minister had to be started by a private individual despite the fact the police had investigated the matter and there will need to be some reflection on this.

No doubt National is now scouring its list of bills seeing which ones are threatened.  Will it last to the end of July?

And I do not know if he has been convicted yet …

Update:  From Twitter it appears that his sentencing has been put off until August 1, 2014 which is just after the date that Parliament rises finally.  I anticipate that he has not been convicted as yet and as I mentioned this morning I am sure his lawyer will apply for a discharge without conviction which will mean that he will continue as a Member of Parliament in the meantime.  The timing and decision will raise questions as it lets Banks keep voting in the meantime …

278 comments on “Banks found guilty of Electoral Fraud ”

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  1. Pete 1
    5 June 2014 at 2:28 pm

    This raises a lot of questions about the Police’s judgment and political independence.

    • Tracey 1.1
      5 June 2014 at 2:46 pm

      the former minister of police afterall.

      had some experience of his closeness to the police and acceptance of some questionable decisions by the police during a case involving my client and citibank in the early 90’s

      glad to have been wrong in my guess about whether he would be found guilty

      • Kiwiri 1.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:50 pm

        It was a pity for the transparency and honesty of New Zealand’s political record that the things Pansy and Sammy Wong did for themselves and key MPs, present and past, did not fully come to light.

        For those who are in the know, that scandal got contained and nipped in the bud by the John Key government before more got exposed to the public.

  2. just saying 2
    5 June 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Yes!!!!!!! Made my day that has 🙂

  3. geoff 3
    5 June 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Win!

  4. Anne 4
    5 June 2014 at 2:34 pm

    Basically the Judge must have thought that Banks knew about the donations and engineered things so that the campaign treasurer could prepare a return recording the Dotcom and Sky City donations could be listed as being anonymous.

    Well, it’s all there in that one sentence. We have known the truth since Day 1.

    Questions must now be asked of the Police handling of the case. Did they “genuinely believe” there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Banks? Or were they “encouraged to believe” there was insufficient evidence etc…?

    And congratulations to Graeme McCready and Penny Bright. A job well done!

    • Tracey 4.1
      5 June 2014 at 2:48 pm

      re the quote from mickey

      it appears judge was less convinced on the sky donation.

    • Red Rosa 4.2
      5 June 2014 at 3:03 pm

      +1

      The questions well put here should be asked of Anne Tolley as Minister of Police, and Judith Collins as Minister of (sic) Justice. On live TV.

      Sad to see NZ dragged down to this level of corruption.

  5. Tracey 5
    5 June 2014 at 2:34 pm

    and judge found dotcom donations more compelling of fraud than sky city…

    so for a small party the crook roll call goes

    awatere
    garrett
    banks

    it should be three strikes and a party is gone for 2 elections

    • hoom 5.1
      5 June 2014 at 3:46 pm

      What are you, some parolenik?
      Nonononono, surely the Sensible Sentence would be 3 strikes & you’re locked out forever.

      • logie97 5.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 5:57 pm

        Yep the clarion call is three strikes and you’re out …

        1999 – rejected by the electorate
        2010 – rejected by Auckland
        2014 – rejected by the courts

        That’s three strikes – what other court of opinion/fact does he need?

  6. opium 6
    5 June 2014 at 2:36 pm

    Oh happy days

  7. Kenny Smith 7
    5 June 2014 at 2:36 pm

    National must be laughing their assess off. Those who were going to give ACT, their party
    vote will now party vote National.

    The right will let Banks fall, and National edges closer to 50%.

    • Banter 7.1
      5 June 2014 at 2:40 pm

      Yip that extra 0% will make a massive difference

      • Kenny Smith 7.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 2:44 pm

        0% wont make the difference but .5% could very well make the difference.

        • Crashcart 7.1.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 2:58 pm

          If ACT dissapearing helpped National they would have cut their throats in Epsom two elections ago. Keep treading water though man.

          • Kenny Smith 7.1.1.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 3:36 pm

            CrashCart:

            Times have changed, what percentage of the party vote does act get? .3 to .8 of a percentage. This election will be tight, if National can pick up that, it could make the difference.

            • Crashcart 7.1.1.1.1.1
              5 June 2014 at 3:47 pm

              You are not wrong. .5% could make a big difference. I would argue that the .5% who voted ACT at the last election are the hard core ACT supporters who won’t change their vote even with this.

              I honestly don’t see any way this could be spun as a good thing for National. On the other hand unless Key is stupid enough to stand up and start saying he supports Banks I don’t think it is going to be overly harmful either. For months now this election has been more about whether or not the conservatievs can get an MP or not. Act have been a lame duck since they started being a 1 MP only party. UF isn’t much better.

        • framu 7.1.1.2
          5 June 2014 at 3:34 pm

          youve got it all wrong – nat wink winked epsom on act to seek a bigger majority via coat tailing – the MP for epsom is irelevant re: act or nat if theres only one of them

          • Crashcart 7.1.1.2.1
            5 June 2014 at 3:51 pm

            I understand that but I also think they were scared that if they didn’t and ACT got enough that they could have coat tailed in an MP that would have ended up being wasted vote for the right.

            As long as there is a chance that ACT might coattail in a second MP National will be smart enough to gift them Epsom to prevent wasted vote. If it costs them having to have a whipping boy 1 MP party on their side they are more than happy to accept that. To be honest that they are far better at this than the left is.

            • framu 7.1.1.2.1.1
              5 June 2014 at 4:00 pm

              hmm – reply mix up – i was replying to kenny (but hey – wouldnt be the first time i clicked the wrong button) – i think we are saying the same thing here

        • Matthew Whitehead 7.1.1.3
          5 June 2014 at 8:15 pm

          Actually it makes less difference for National than it does for ACT, as the saint-lague distribution is less friendly to large parties, so electorally this is a loss for National however you look at it.

    • Gosman 7.2
      5 June 2014 at 3:09 pm

      Banks does not and really has never represented ACT’s philosophy. It was a sad day for ACT when he was selected to be the candidate for Epsom and I say good riddance.

      • Tracey 7.2.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:15 pm

        so now you have unclecousin and “who?”…

        garrett
        awatere
        banks

        fraud and deception seems to be a common theme in the party of personal responsibility

        • Gosman 7.2.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 4:10 pm

          I wouldn’t be so quick to cast aspersions. For every John Banks there is likely to be a Taito Phillip Field on the left.

          • framu 7.2.1.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 4:21 pm

            but you gotta admit – % wise act has quite a hit rate, and they campaign on personal responsibility as well

          • McFlock 7.2.1.1.2
            5 June 2014 at 4:24 pm

            Who are the left-wing equivalents of the other fraudsters in the list?
            And that’s before we even get to national’s oravida/police interference/cabinetclub brigade.

          • Tracey 7.2.1.1.3
            5 June 2014 at 4:25 pm

            these are the proven

            3 from your tiny and young party

            1 from labour party over many decades.

            its a pattern of sorts… and speaks volumes as does your glibb dismissal of it.

          • Once was Tim 7.2.1.1.4
            5 June 2014 at 6:32 pm

            In your case Gozzz, that’d be casting Hilda Ogden type nasturtiums more likely. I’d be very quick.

            I thought I’d just check out the ‘left’s response’ by coming on this site – just to see how bloody quick the politically connected (such as yourself of course) from the right begin the counter offensive.
            Fuck me! – didn’t take long eh? Where’s Mathew? Is he further down? I’ll keep scrolling.

            (btw… did you watch Gower on 3News tonight?? check out that look of fear at the end of his cross)

          • Matthew Whitehead 7.2.1.1.5
            5 June 2014 at 8:17 pm

            Given, but some of this is also about how you deal with those hucksters.

            The correct response is that they should immediately resign any ministerial responsibilities, and if found guilty, they ought to resign from parliament immediately. I would say for list MPs there’s an argument they should just resign from parliament immediately and can stand again if cleared.

            The left does a bit better at meeting those standards, but still has a long way to go.

  8. Rosie 8
    5 June 2014 at 2:36 pm

    Wow. Looks like they might need to set up a permanent rapid response fire crew at Parliament there’s so many pairs of pants on fire these days! It can be funded by cabinet club.

  9. Tangled up 9
    5 June 2014 at 2:36 pm

    What would be better?

    1 -he is discharged without conviction and remains in Parliament as an easy target to make the Govt. look bad until the election.

    2- he receives a conviction, leaves parliament and the Govt. goes down to 60 seats.

    • Rosie 9.1
      5 June 2014 at 2:39 pm

      Option 2 would be better. They still need Banks’ vote to pass critical bills.

      EDIT: Oh, see Mickey’s update: sentencing not until 1st August so will probably stay in parliament for the time being.

      • framu 9.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:36 pm

        does the sentencing bit matter? – i thought the initial conviction on the charge was the tipping point

        • ianmac 9.1.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 4:50 pm

          So did I Framu but Prof Hodge says no. Not until sentencing. The advice given to Brownlie and Key is also that he carries on until Parliament rises in August.

          • framu 9.1.1.1.1
            6 June 2014 at 7:56 am

            which im quite happy with – the longer he stays publicly attached to nat the better IMO

            his staying or going matters little to nat majority at this point – but as far as opportunities for the opposition to keep twisting the knife, its party time

        • mickysavage 9.1.1.2
          5 June 2014 at 6:28 pm

          You can be found guilty but not convicted. Does not happen very often but it does happen occasionally.

    • Treetop 9.2
      5 June 2014 at 2:48 pm

      Key will distance himself from Banks in the house, Banks will appeal so any sentence will be delayed. Key will now court Graig and very little legislation will get passed before the election unless it is to the advantage of the Maori Party. There is only a little more than 100 days until the election.

      • Kiwiri 9.2.1
        5 June 2014 at 9:04 pm

        “Key will distance himself from Banks in the house”

        and so it will be engineered to appear, while his anointer was not more than a few steps behind Banks for most of the afternoon as the camera revealed

        • Treetop 9.2.1.1
          6 June 2014 at 11:31 am

          I don’t get what you are saying here “while his anointer was not more than a few steps behind Banks for most of the afternoon as the camera revealed”

          Key was not at court yesterday.

          I heard Whyte this morning not involving himself with Banks. Sounds to me that Banks could have done with the psychological support from Whyte because he has a PH D in psychology. May be the distancing is about to start from Key.

    • Tracey 9.3
      5 June 2014 at 2:51 pm

      a man of his honesty and integrity will abide by the decision of a judge and will immediately resign from parliament.

      • McFlock 9.3.1
        5 June 2014 at 2:54 pm

        although the verdict suggests that he has neither 🙂

        • Tracey 9.3.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 3:01 pm

          yup… so boag… revell and gibbs ust couldnt get the honest integrity gig across the line…

          if his parents were convicted as back street abortionists couldnt the argument be made they were kind of liberal crusaders ahead of their time trying to help women in awful situations?

          from the way banks depicts them I thought they were evi to the core?

      • ffloyd 9.3.2
        5 June 2014 at 3:02 pm

        Chuckle, wheeze, fall about.

  10. Will 10
    5 June 2014 at 2:38 pm

    Is there any chance of a snap election in light if this? Perhaps so that National can get things started before IMP’s $3m can be really put to use?

    Great news anyway. Good riddance!

    • Pete 10.1
      5 June 2014 at 2:40 pm

      No. The sentencing date is set down for 1 August. The day after Parliament rises ahead of the election.

      Edit: I beg your pardon. I was wrong. The last sitting day is 13 August. Though I doubt there’ll be a snap election over 12 days.

  11. redfred 11
    5 June 2014 at 2:41 pm

    Yeehaaa

    Play it loud ….. John Banks.. by Salmonella Dub….

    Proven to be “Fly Shit” by a court of law …. finally gone!

  12. BM 12
    5 June 2014 at 2:42 pm

    All this bollocks for a mere 50k.

    Banks probably has more than that down the back of his couch.

    • McFlock 12.1
      5 June 2014 at 2:46 pm

      in brown paper envelopes, you think?

    • appleboy 12.2
      5 June 2014 at 2:48 pm

      Yes indeed, the greed has no limit

    • Tracey 12.3
      5 June 2014 at 2:51 pm

      and your point is?

    • framu 12.4
      5 June 2014 at 3:39 pm

      first time ive heard a fraud conviction being bollocks

      why do you righties stick up for corruption in your own ranks so stridently? – wheres the personal responsibility gone?

      • Naki man 12.4.1
        5 June 2014 at 4:34 pm

        “first time ive heard a fraud conviction being bollocks”

        Banks has not been convicted of fraud

        • McFlock 12.4.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 5:56 pm

          not yet, at any rate

          • Rodel 12.4.1.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 8:36 pm

            Dear John,
            Sorry about your impending conviction.
            We still have some legislation to pass and you can count on my relaxed friendship and support until then.
            How about a cup of tea so we can discuss our mutual interests.
            May I suggest a small cafe I know in Invercargill without media attention..
            Until September,
            I remain
            Your friend
            John

        • framu 12.4.1.2
          6 June 2014 at 7:59 am

          found guilty then – it matters not to the person in the street.

          but you keep playing semantics if you want

    • minarch 12.5
      5 June 2014 at 3:50 pm

      you do realise this is more than a lot of Kiwis make in a year ?

      are they worthless ??

    • North 12.6
      5 June 2014 at 5:24 pm

      Which, BM @ 12, just goes to show how ludicrous is your reducing things down to focus on the money. Also goes to show how tenuous is your grip on even the barest morality when it comes to participation in a decent co-existent society. Your reflexive love of ill is appallingly antisocial and delinquent.

      Ditto for NakiMan above.

  13. McFlock 13
    5 June 2014 at 2:42 pm

    So looks like no conviction until sentencing on august 1.
    On the downside, it looks like he’ll stay in parliament for another couple of months.
    on the plus side, until August 1 his confidence vote demonstrably makes this government a government of liars and the corrupt.

    • The Al1en 13.1
      5 June 2014 at 3:53 pm

      I find it odd that a judge takes a week to wade through the intricacies of a trial, yet it takes nearly two months to be able to pass sentence.
      If he’s waiting for a psyche report, save the tax payer the cash, he’s fuc*ing barking 😆

      • mickysavage 13.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:54 pm

        The Judge asked for a probation report which is quite normal and does take 6 to 8 weeks normally.

        • The Al1en 13.1.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 4:02 pm

          Ta for the info.

          http://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/about/system/role/sentencing.html

          Pre-sentence reports contain information about:

          The offender’s personal background and family (whanau) circumstances;
          The lifestyle and other factors which are considered to have contributed to them committing the offence;
          Recommendations relating to courses of training or treatment which might assist the rehabilitation of the offender;
          An assessment of the risk of further offending;
          A recommendation as to the appropriate penalty, including proposed terms and conditions for the offender’s supervision, training and treatment within the community whether immediately or upon release from prison.

  14. redfred 14
    5 June 2014 at 2:45 pm

    Will he resign tonight or tomorrow?

  15. outofbed 15
    5 June 2014 at 2:46 pm

    runs in the family

  16. fisiani 16
    5 June 2014 at 2:47 pm

    Great news re Banks. Justice being seen to be done.
    Banks will be sentenced on August 1st.
    There will be no by-election due to the proximity to the election.
    John Key therefore has the right to say “Party Vote National and give us a majority so that we are not dependent on minor parties”
    I’m picking National 51%
    Labour 20%
    Greens 18%
    NZF 6 %
    Conservatives 4%
    ACT -1 or 2 MPs
    UF -1 MP
    Internet Mana 2 MP
    Maori Party 3 MP

    Before you laugh have a look at the latest stunning Roy Morgan poll.

    [lprent: A link would be helpful. Budget was Thursday May 15th, the poll was taken Monday May 19th – Jun 1st with the bulk of the polling in the first week. The usual election year post-budget glow (and what the other polls in that period showed). The next RM poll is the interesting one. It will show if that glow is sustained. ]

    • Tracey 16.1
      5 June 2014 at 2:53 pm

      youd think key would want a snap election on the poll and court results.

      • Crashcart 16.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:01 pm

        I liekd the part where he had ACT as getting one or two MP’s even after this fiasco. Kind of throws any of his analysis into doubt.

        • Tracey 16.1.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 3:04 pm

          yes a bit counter to his idea that national will get the message it doesnt want partners and their voters will comply.
          I will help mr goldsmith in epsom and try not to be sick in my mouth in the booth.

      • fisiani 16.1.2
        5 June 2014 at 3:10 pm

        Not at all. Parliament has just a few sitting days to go and Banks is still an MP till August 1st so all planned legislation can pass. There is no down side from this for National or for ACT. National can call for a majority and ACT can campaign as a fresh team. Seymour should romp home in Epsom due to clever national voters.Dunne will romp home in Ohariu and if need be Colin Craig will get the nod in an Auckland seat either East Coast Bays or perhaps Pakuranga if Maurice Williamson decides to retire.

        • Crashcart 16.1.2.1
          5 June 2014 at 3:14 pm

          And their party vote which has been efectively 0 will magically grow over the next few months despite the last two members being unmitigated disasters and their party achieving nothing of note other than being completely reliant on a cup of tea from John Key.

        • ghostwhowalksnz 16.1.2.2
          5 June 2014 at 3:51 pm

          The Judge has found him GUILTY. Hes gone from parliament. Doesnt have to wait till sentencing.

          • Colonial Viper 16.1.2.2.1
            5 June 2014 at 4:04 pm

            Yes I do believe that is how the Electoral Act is interpreted

            • McFlock 16.1.2.2.1.1
              5 June 2014 at 4:09 pm

              ya reckon that’s how this government will interpret it?
              lol.

              Oravida, williamson, banks – we have a corrupt government.

          • Melb 16.1.2.2.2
            5 June 2014 at 4:23 pm

            Guilty, but no conviction has been entered as yet.

        • Mike S 16.1.2.3
          5 June 2014 at 11:52 pm

          “Dunne will romp home in Ohariu”

          Really? If the Greens suggested their supporters vote for the Labour candidate we could possibly finally see the back of Dunne.

      • Pasupial 16.1.3
        5 June 2014 at 3:40 pm

        Fizzyanus

        David Cunliffe therefore has the right to say “Party Vote Left and give us a majority so that we can review all legislation passed with the vote of the convicted fraudster Banks”

        The Roy Morgan poll looks like a rogue to me, being so far outside of its own trend (to say nothing of internal Party polling). We’ll have to see what the next one looks like on the 22nd. The 9% for Green looks very low, but at least we’ll be able to claim that the conference policy speeches resulted in a 50% gain (from previous if back at 13.5%). The way Mana and Internet are listed as separate will hopefully be remedied by then too.

        http://www.roymorgan.com/morganpoll/new-zealand/voting-intention-summary

    • Draco T Bastard 16.2
      5 June 2014 at 5:46 pm

      Banks will be sentenced on August 1st.

      The longer Banks hangs around the worse it will be for National and their lapdog, Act.

      • Rodel 16.2.1
        5 June 2014 at 8:09 pm

        Watch and see how fast Mr Key ‘unfriends’ Mr Banks. It’s called Tory loyalty.

    • DS 16.3
      6 June 2014 at 12:32 am

      I’d bet good money the poll’s a rogue (if the Nats couldn’t get more than 47% in 2011, they won’t get it in 2014). Still, if the Nats crack 50%, well, good on them. The country will get what it deserves.

  17. Marius 17
    5 June 2014 at 2:47 pm

    that has made my day

  18. North 18
    5 June 2014 at 2:55 pm

    MS……if the comment at the end of your post –

    “And I do not know if he has been convicted yet …” –

    is a reference to the possibility of a discharge without conviction under s.106 of the Sentencing Act 2002……Nah. Not a show. And if it takes more than six weeks for a s.106 application to be filed and determined there’s something very wrong. Even if filed it’ll be over in two months tops.

    On the merits of an application the threshold to be met under s.107 is that the direct/indirect consequences of the conviction are out of all proportion to the seriousness of the offending.

    Hard to minimise the seriousness of the offending given that it was a premeditated assault on the integrity of electoral law and seemingly calculated to subvert transparent democratic process.

    For offending at that level of seriousness against an important public interest, viz. the maintenance of transparent democratic process, the loss of the offender’s right to occupy a parliamentary seat and thus participate at the highest level in the transparent democratic process offended against, would seem to be quite meet. Hardly out of all proportion.

    • Hayden 18.1
      5 June 2014 at 3:00 pm

      …the loss of the offender’s right to occupy a parliamentary seat…

      Moreover, a seat which he’s already given up as of September 20.

    • Tracey 18.2
      5 June 2014 at 3:06 pm

      yeah I agree. he wont get a discharge for eectora fraud. home detention maybe… but remember there is a precedent… mr field

    • mickysavage 18.3
      5 June 2014 at 3:08 pm

      Hi North. I think the chances of a discharge without conviction are very low but I get the feeling that Banks will hang around in the meantime. If he had integrity he would resign forthwith but I do not think that this will happen …

      • phillip ure 18.3.1
        5 June 2014 at 5:44 pm

        @ m.s..

        “..Hi North. I think the chances of a discharge without conviction are very low ..”

        wd u like a wee wager on that one..?

        ..as i think that is what will happen..

        ..not for money..

        .but the one who is incorrect acknowledging the superior political-analysis tools of the other..?

        ..u up 4 that..?

        • the pigman 18.3.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 6:32 pm

          Sorry Phil, I’m not sure your stretch on remand qualifies you to comment on the merits of the discharge application.

          As I mentioned in a thread on TDB (Bomber has me in auto-moderation there, chuckle), a court may not discharge an offender without conviction unless the court is satisfied that the direct and indirect consequences of a conviction would be out of all proportion to the gravity of the offence.

          I anticipate some very colourful argument from his team about the consequences, most of which I think will be financial impacts on his business interests, but I think the offence is quite grave, especially in light of the fact that Banks continues to deny that he is guilty of anything, and the way he has acted throughout as an MP for Epsom. There is a strong public interest in a conviction being entered so that other high-ranking public officials can’t pull the “I can’t remember” card again.

          Although I expect Banks to wave around wads of cash to be thrown at charities, the issue of NZ losing it’s corruption-free image now appears to be part of the zeitgeist. I am hopeful this will not escape the sentencing judge.

      • Anne 18.3.2
        5 June 2014 at 5:54 pm

        I think the chances of a discharge without conviction are very low.

        Read phillip ure at 30 mickysavage. He/she was there. Sounds ominous indeed.

      • North 18.3.3
        5 June 2014 at 6:05 pm

        Indeed MS @ 18.3. His ‘hanging around’ wasn’t my focus. It was simply to say there’s no way a s.106 application would be granted. As to your point, his hanging around, I doubt he’ll have the balls to front up personally to engage in a flurry of voting until conviction but of course he’ll give proxies in matters where personal vote is not required.

        Still…….he’s no doubt evaluating right now the sterling advice of brains trust BM and NakiMan. Something along these lines –

        “Walk right in…….sit right down……….
        Throw those bloody votes around……
        Walk right in…….sit right down………
        Go get fucked you commie clowns….!”

        Ha ! Home D you’re not allowed to get on the piss or ‘chuff’ away. Standard condition I think. Furthermore…….your probie can direct that you not associate with anti-social elements deemed inimical to your rehabilitation.

        Sorry BM, NakiMan…….no more late night seshing with your alter ego Archie.

  19. repateet 19
    5 June 2014 at 2:56 pm

    This is almost as good as winning the Rugby World Cup, the America’s Cup and an Olympic gold medal all on the same day!

  20. Treetop 20
    5 June 2014 at 3:02 pm

    Say Banks appeals

    Would he be entitled to have a jury hearing?
    Does an appeal just drag the dishonesty out longer for Banks and make Key look stupid?

    Dotcom must be wetting himself with laughter.

    • Tracey 20.1
      5 June 2014 at 3:08 pm

      no appeals are heard by judges. if he got a re hearing following the appeal I think it would still be judge alone

      • Treetop 20.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:24 pm

        What about a judicial review to slow things up?

        • ghostwhowalksnz 20.1.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 3:44 pm

          It can be guaranteed that Banks will appeal…. all the way to the Supreme court.

          Doesnt matter though , as soon as he is convicted he loses his seat, it wouldnt be stayed. he can run in a bye election if he wanted . hahaha

          Remember Banks has allready tried every legal appeal to stop the trial going ahead.

          • phillip ure 20.1.1.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 5:48 pm

            @ ghost..

            ..his sentencing is the day after parliament rises for the election..

            ..and he has already said he is not standing again..

            ..i am puzzled as to yr reasons for such celebration on yr part..?

            ..as i reckon he is going to pretty much get away with it..

            ..wet bus-ticket..slap..!..

            ..’discharge without conviction’..

            • Tracey 20.1.1.1.1.1
              5 June 2014 at 6:12 pm

              for a self righteous lock em up and throw away the key guy like banks even the small possibility of prison will be giving him a few sleepless nights. in the circles he moves the bar for honesty is low But dont get caught and taint the rest… he will be snubbed by many of his ilk.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1.1.1.2
            5 June 2014 at 6:03 pm

            …Banks will appeal…

            As is every criminal’s right.

      • North 20.1.2
        5 June 2014 at 6:20 pm

        Hellish hard to disturb the factual findings of a judge who heard the evidence and was in the position to evaluate the credibility of witnesses. A well established legal principle. Appeal judges would have to find that the trial judge concluded against the weight of evidence or proceeded against an erroneous presciption of law.

        Won’t happen. I know BM…….NakiMan……..your looseness/looneyness will say it SHOULD happen but it won’t.

        • Tracey 20.1.2.1
          5 June 2014 at 6:28 pm

          if he appeals it will probably be on law. something like

          the judge was wrong to find that actual knowledge was not required

    • veutoviper 20.2
      5 June 2014 at 3:14 pm

      Here is the link to KDC’s Twitter feed. It includes a number of other interesting tweets including one from Winston Peters.

      https://twitter.com/KimDotcom

      • Kiwiri 20.2.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:33 pm

        Cheers for pointing that out. The video certainly came to mind when I linked to that below.

        Winston’s comment is spot on. Earlier this year, Key set the polling date because of this trial and the timing of the judgment. Other reasons were invoked as excuses of course, as is typical with Key who finds it a challenge to be straight up with the public.

        The dishonest hands of Banks taints the government and the legislation that have been passed this term, especially where they got through with the majority of just the one vote that he cast.

      • Treetop 20.2.2
        5 June 2014 at 3:39 pm

        I have just seen Twitter. Peters is spot on for the Banks hearing to be the reason for an early election.

        I heard Key say on radio that Banks was not in parliament at the time.

        Does Key think this has nothing to do with there being a proven liar in the house?
        (Banks kept the lie up and he has lied to the country as well).

        Bring on the next polls.

        • Mike S 20.2.2.1
          6 June 2014 at 12:13 am

          “Does Key think this has nothing to do with there being a proven liar in the house?
          (Banks kept the lie up and he has lied to the country as well).”

          Key is a proven liar many times over yet still seems to be hugely popular with NZ voters. (Which has always and still does bewilder me)

          I don’t think this will affect Key or National at all.

          Can someone tell me how the polls in regards to people’s preffered PM are conducted? Because Key seems to be overwhelmingly preffered every poll. Say for example 70% of people would prefer Key as PM in a poll, yet the left block of political parties would be at the very least 40% and probably more of voters, does that mean that a large percentage of left leaning voters would still prefer Key as PM?

          I just can’t understand why so many people seem to love Key so much.Is it that they simply can’t see through his media image? You’ve just got to look at his eyes to know he’s bad news FFS. Most of the people I know hate him with a passion!

  21. Colonial Viper 21
    5 June 2014 at 3:05 pm

    Thankful that our Courts system can still do the right thing, and can still (occasionally) stand up to those with power and wealth, when it is needed.

    • Tracey 21.1
      5 June 2014 at 3:11 pm

      yup division between executive and judiciary justified again…
      now we just need 100% division between police and the executive

    • phillip ure 21.2
      5 June 2014 at 5:53 pm

      @ c.v..

      ..yr naivety/credulity is touching..

      ..esp. in one so educated..

  22. adam 22
    5 June 2014 at 3:07 pm

    I’d loved to have seen Chris Finlayson’s face today. What this does, is bring into disrepute each and every bill John Banks has voted on.

    A government held in place by a fraudster

    A Budget brought buy a fraudster

    No wonder National can’t balance the books – they have John “fraud” Banks

    Were the money gone John, did John lie about the total John, … John, John?

    Like all Banks, John sees his role as ripping off the public.

    A cup of tea, and Mr Key can give you anything.

    Hold on, here comes Banks – one fraud a day, keeps the opposition away.

    National – shut up – we defrauded our way here fair and square.

    ACT – When we’re not fraudsters, or stealing identities – we want you to screw your sister.

    ACT – bringing new meaning to crooks and thieves.

    ACT – Rich white men, who like nothing better than punishing the poor and stopping hand outs – What was your conviction for again John, a hand what??

    • Kiwiri 22.2
      5 June 2014 at 3:22 pm

      +1

      And Key continues to keep him afloat … on his cabbage boat:

      Yeah, have a good dance to that clip.

      I was always inclined to believe Kim Dotcom rather than Banks:

      “Why two cheques for $25,000? It does not make sense at all. Who donates two cheques each of $25,000? I don’t see how that makes sense,” Mr Dotcom said.
      “Mr Banks is lying, not me.”

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11258298

    • srylands 22.3
      5 June 2014 at 3:33 pm

      You are so wrong. Banks hijacked ACT. It will now return to its roots of promoting the only policies on offer to genuinely help the poor. That is why I am encouraging Bad12 to switch to ACT in his Party Vote in Rongatai. He should be an example to you all if you really want to make New Zealand more prosperous and more equitable.

      • Kiwiri 22.3.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:39 pm

        H A H A H A … and the puppet-masters and mistresses of of ACT allowed Banks to hijack ACT.

        Of course, it was not at all engineered by ACT in cahoots with John Key and Nats. /sarc

        • Rodel 22.3.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 8:15 pm

          Kiwiri
          I was going to respond to watsisname Ssrr, with Ha ha ha !but you beat me to it. But still. Ha ha ha ha!!.

      • framu 22.3.2
        5 June 2014 at 3:48 pm

        ” Banks hijacked ACT”

        wow – so the backers had nothing to do with it and just let brash and banks slide in a take it from them?

        just how fucking gullible are you?

        If ACT policies are so darn tooting awesome for the poor can you explain why the exact same policies have never been openly voted in by an electorate, anywhere, ever – and are always put in place by force or stealth?

        And if ACT policies are so darn tooting awesome for the poor can you explain why there have sometimes been popular citzen uprisings to get rid of them in some countries with high numbers of poor?

        And if ACT policies are so darn tooting awesome for the poor can you explain why its mainly really rich people who support them?

        anyhoo – dont you hate poor people and think theyre stupid and “icky”

        shove you faux concern for the poor – no ones buying it

        • Lloyd 22.3.2.1
          5 June 2014 at 10:01 pm

          ACT policies are only good for destroying an economy while giving money to a few, with the ultimate outcome being violent revolution. Wonderful policies from clever people. Duh.

      • bad12 22.3.3
        5 June 2014 at 5:16 pm

        Banks aint the only one that’s barking mad round here obviously, but, thanks for the laugh(at you), SSLands…

        • Chooky 22.3.3.1
          5 June 2014 at 5:27 pm

          lol…all very droll ( i still think srylands is a woman who eats dry toast thinly spread)

      • North 22.3.4
        5 June 2014 at 6:39 pm

        Ha Ha Ha…….! Bowel Motion is shitting…….SSLands is spitting.

        Spitting out Banks that is. Just like they all spat out Poor Old Piggy as it suited. Rob’s Mobs to Rob’s Sobs.

        Anyway SSLands…….top marks for that brill’ social-science-fiction thesis at 22.3 above.

        Sling me enough putea I can probably fix you a first class honours from somewhere.

        Anonymously mind……..I won’t tell.

      • Once was Tim 22.3.5
        5 June 2014 at 6:51 pm

        Your interest in Bad12’s geopolitical and spatial position in the electorate of Rongotai is duly noted – obviously based on his various confessions in here.
        Geez – you must really be scared!
        Your ability to bullshit about yours from time to time is also (noted).
        Maaaaaate – you’re so full of shit it IS funny.
        If there was a popularity contest – I’d give you #1 – a bit ahead of the others with Matty Wilderwonderingdobs Hooter coming a second to last.
        I should introduce Bad12 to Chris Finlayson sometime eh? It could be the new Reality TV show:
        “Who’s the Top?”

        Yep …. #1 – but still fullashit

      • Delia 22.3.6
        5 June 2014 at 7:34 pm

        Good bye ACT you weird strange hard to understand party with usually less than 3% in the Polls on a good day. Can’t say it was nice to know you nor your rather strange supporters in my town, but best wishes anyway.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 22.3.6.1
          5 June 2014 at 7:39 pm

          Mr. Unclecousin cannot save the day?

          No, I have enough cynical contempt for the voters of Epsom to believe they will foist this abomination upon us once again.

          • Tracey 22.3.6.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 7:43 pm

            self interest is the hallmark of the nats and act so I agree with you… epsom will go however the liar in chief wants.

      • Huginn 22.3.7
        5 June 2014 at 7:57 pm

        srylands

        Yeah, I agree – a Libertarian Party like Act has important contributions to make to the political conversation.

        I just can’t understand why they think that contribution has to be a boring reworking of the Uncle Fucker Song

        http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=kp&v=VsMcdEswK8k

    • Melb 22.4
      5 June 2014 at 4:27 pm

      The last Govt was run by a Prime Minister whom police believe committed a prima facie case of fraud. Graham McCready could have had fun with that.

      Also, the Maori Party’s agreement with National means they still have the votes on budgets and other confidence matters. Act isn’t holding the Govt in place.

      • North 22.4.1
        5 June 2014 at 6:54 pm

        You just don’t know what you’re saying do you Mensa Melb ?

        Police reckoned prima facie case but did nothing.

        Shows how much the police DIDN’T believe their own reckoning.

        Police reckoned no prima facie case and did nothing.

        Two judges disagreed.

        Shows how much the police DIDN’T believe their own reckoning.

        Maybe that’s unfair on the police.

        Maybe they’re just not Mensa Melb like you.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 22.4.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 7:49 pm

          I hope our police feel suitably chastened by this verdict, and I expect the courts to continue to expose these shortcomings, and to treat them seriously, and judge them harshly, since breaches of electoral law of this nature are indistinguishable from enemy action.

          In this case it’s treachery not treason: he was just selling us out to his owner/donors, but a man like that has no place in the house.

    • David H 22.5
      5 June 2014 at 5:39 pm

      John Archibald Banks. Following in his fathers footsteps, literally

      • Tracey 22.5.1
        5 June 2014 at 6:15 pm

        except maybe just maybe his folks were trying to help others… banksie was helping himself…

      • One Anonymous Bloke 22.5.2
        5 June 2014 at 7:55 pm

        Right wing narrative alert.

      • Murray Olsen 22.5.3
        6 June 2014 at 2:35 am

        Archie was a well liked and respected guy in some quarters. His dishonesty was of a more honest type, and he actually did quite a bit to help people in unfortunate circumstances. He should not be judged by the bottom feeder that sprang from his loins.

  23. Chooky 23
    5 June 2014 at 3:13 pm

    Congratulations to Graeme McCready and Penny Bright !

    “The history of the matter should be reflected on. It was started as a private prosecution by a company controlled by Graeme McCready and assisted by Penny Bright. The Crown only took over the case part way through the process…”.

    May they also be successful in other matters of corruption that they are pursuing in Auckland

    • srylands 23.1
      5 June 2014 at 5:06 pm

      Maybe Penny will celebrate by paying her Auckland Council rates bill.

      • Chooky 23.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 7:11 pm

        she will…once she has sorted the corrupt goings on there out

      • North 23.1.2
        5 June 2014 at 7:16 pm

        Penny’s rates ??? Powerful gush of irrelevance there SSLands.

        Still, I guess grief-induced incontinence can throw even the best economist, diplomat, academic, master of the universe, general know all, tipped for royal honours social lion of Tacky Waters Brisbane.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1.3
        5 June 2014 at 7:58 pm

        The Mad Queen may yet lose her house. I’m hoping some left wing philanthropist will help her out, but I’m not optimistic.

  24. travellerev 24
    5 June 2014 at 3:15 pm

    John Banks Found Guilty!!! Here’s What I Would Like To See!

    • tinfoilhat 24.1
      5 June 2014 at 3:25 pm

      I just followed your link – it makes me sad that there are people like you with so much hate in their heart.

      • travellerev 24.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:49 pm

        Hate? me? I tell you what. In medieval times bankers where drawn, quartered and put to the stake for ripping people off the way they are now and a little prick like John Banks would be hung and his body would be fed to the dogs if he was caught scheming like this. In China, Iran and Vietnam to name a few countries at least they actually do something about the rich pricks looting them blind. Here… all we have are words and even that they are trying to take away. Until that time I’ll tell truth to power and I’ll tell them what I would like to see done to them for their crimes if I had my way. And I would like to see that done through a court of law. I don’t bash bennies or the poor or the other people being robbed of their futures by assholes like Banks and Key. You don’t like that? Well ladida!

        • Tracey 24.1.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 4:29 pm

          maybe get a grip

          • travellerev 24.1.1.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 6:46 pm

            I see you’re telling people to stay calm and join the Revolution! I would like under all circumstances to avoid a Revolution. Revolutions are ugly, bloody and WoW! talk about unhinged!

            The one way we can avoid all out fighting in the street, the return to war-lordism and Revolution is by being furious when little scumbags and the big ones too are not being held to the same standards they would like to hold us too such as those poor suckers getting caught in the latest drug raids (A fucking measly $ 220 per person caught and confiscated), With John Key saying Banks, Collins and whoever pulls a fast one can stay he is sticking his fingers up at us the common muppets who will pay for all the shit they are pulling now.

            If you’re not furious, you haven’t been paying attention.

          • Populuxe1 24.1.1.1.2
            5 June 2014 at 8:27 pm

            That would require a passing acquaintance with sanity.

        • srylands 24.1.1.2
          5 June 2014 at 5:05 pm

          You seem a bit unhinged. This is a very minor issue. We all know Banks is a twit. He wrecked a great political party in ACT. He has reached the end of the line. It won’t affect the Government and it will not be an election issue. It won’t be anything for anyone except for poor Mr Banks.

          • travellerev 24.1.1.2.1
            5 June 2014 at 6:48 pm

            Read my response to Tracey and if you think ACT was great you should be delirious a criminal will get his just deserts.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 24.1.1.2.1.1
              5 June 2014 at 8:04 pm

              Our penal system is if anything a bigger failure than our Climate or Security policies. At the heart of this failure is the whining cry-baby lust for vengeance that mangles public discourse.

              I hope the courts can rehabilitate Mr. Banks but I doubt it given our recidivism rate and adherence to ACT penal policy.

          • North 24.1.1.2.2
            5 June 2014 at 9:02 pm

            Yeah…… .a minor absoluely not constitutional issue…….whereas a scribble on a painting for charity sang the destruction of democracy. Fall back in it you wanking amoral fool.

    • Naki man 24.2
      5 June 2014 at 4:49 pm

      You are [leave it out NM -MS] travellerev

      • The Al1en 24.2.1
        5 June 2014 at 4:56 pm

        As a way of recovering the cost to taxpayers to cover this criminals case, I’d stump up a few dollars to throw rotten fruit at Banks.
        For a tenner I’d lob a few coconuts.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 24.2.2
        5 June 2014 at 8:11 pm

        Travellerev advocates violence against convicted criminals. I didn’t get to read Naki Moran’s response but I’ll wager he was just lashing out like a person with a severely limited understanding of personal responsibility 😈

        • travellerev 24.2.2.1
          6 June 2014 at 8:53 am

          Actually I advocate state sanctioned violence against the worst offenders. It worked wonders for moral during the French revolution.

  25. Tracey 25
    5 June 2014 at 3:18 pm

    justice wylie found dotcom and his ex wife to be reliable witnesses. ..

    • veutoviper 25.1
      5 June 2014 at 3:39 pm

      And Wayne Tempero.

      I read somewhere recently that Amanda Banks now lives in the South Island. (Cannot remember where). But enough said.

  26. Not a PS Staffer 26
    5 June 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Banks was found out on his dis-honesty before.

    Jim Bolger kicked him out of the Cabinet when Banks was caught playing both sides of the fence in the sale of the Waitangi Hotel.

    I’d give a lot to hear Jim Bolger’s comments on John Banks!

    • Kiwiri 26.1
      5 June 2014 at 3:43 pm

      One of the best parts of all this is that matriarch of the National Party lent her name and reputation to testify for Banks at the trial.

      Michelle Boag, “who worked on John Banks’ 2010 mayoral campaign as a fundraiser”, had “described Mr Banks as honest, forthright”!

      http://m.tvnz.co.nz/news/top_stories/5976208

      • ghostwhowalksnz 26.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 3:50 pm

        They said the same at Al Capones trial. he was an outstanding man in his community. !

        He was found guilty of “wilfully failing to file income tax returns”

        Too similiar to Banks ??

      • Not a PS Staffer 26.1.2
        5 June 2014 at 3:53 pm

        I’d also give a lot to hear Jim Bolger’s thoughts on Dame Boag

        ….or is it to be Dame Michelle?

      • Tracey 26.1.3
        5 June 2014 at 4:21 pm

        well now we know what her definition of honest is.. and how worthy her judgment of honesty is

    • Huginn 26.2
      5 June 2014 at 8:05 pm

      And there was that deplorable business about campaign expenses in September 2004, when Banks’s campaign manager, Brian Nicolle, took the rap and resigned.

  27. Kenny Smith 27
    5 June 2014 at 3:52 pm

    [Deleted – totally off topic – MS]

    • freedom 27.1
      5 June 2014 at 4:01 pm

      Kenny, could you include the source please?

    • Pasupial 27.2
      5 June 2014 at 4:04 pm

      KS

      You do realise that this post is about Banks’ conviction? Fisiani tried this same line of distraction upthread, I don’t much feel like falling for it a second time.

      If you want to discuss polls we can do it over on Open Mike.

      • Kenny Smith 27.2.1
        5 June 2014 at 4:09 pm

        Pasupial

        It was posted because of ACT’s disappearance from the political scene and how the banks
        decision is going to effect the election, but sure I will be happy to post it in Open Mike.

    • finbar 27.3
      5 June 2014 at 4:19 pm

      Very hard to judge the Maori vote at any time.For myself, i think Labour have taken the wrong high road on the dove tail issue,i think come the election results (for it is very close as it stands) if not in their favour there will be nashing of teeth for taking the high moral road.

    • Chooky 27.4
      5 June 2014 at 5:04 pm

      Maori Party are gonners …Maori have fled to Mana

    • Lanthanide 27.5
      5 June 2014 at 6:28 pm

      That’s the lowest NZFirst has had in in 5 polls. So it seems unlikely that it is “too high”.

  28. finbar 28
    5 June 2014 at 3:57 pm

    Initialy i was going to say.Mr Banks,you can fool the people some of the time,but you cannot fool them all the time.However,after hearing him in his full blown narcicist mode outside the court,”ive always said, that i have never filed a fraudulent election donation”.What a narcisit,it must have been gauling for him to hear the judge say,the court requires a probation report, further a report on his home and its location, regarding its suitability for home detention monitering.

    The police and their decision not to prosecute initialy and the P.M. saying he had not read the police report should also be called into serious question.

  29. Steve James 29
    5 June 2014 at 4:11 pm

    John Banks is still a multi millionaire and a real ‘rags to riches’ story. We could all learn from him and better ourselves. That being said – ‘Do the crime, do the time’ All corrupt politicians should be investigated and punished; and I mean ALL of them.

    • emergency mike 29.1
      5 June 2014 at 4:42 pm

      “We could all learn from him and better ourselves.”

      The tard is strong in this one.

    • Tracey 29.2
      5 June 2014 at 6:18 pm

      like when he took executive director fees to do nothing at hujlich…

      he is no role model.

    • framu 29.3
      6 June 2014 at 8:06 am

      whats more important steve?

      Your net worth? – or how you got it and how you behave once you have it?

      for many of us its about how you conduct yourself – not where you end up

  30. phillip ure 30
    5 June 2014 at 4:13 pm

    i went to the court…i overheard a fascinating snip of conversation post banks-sentencing..

    ..that could be bad news for those hoping banks will be detained in any way/manner..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/commentwhoar-john-banks-guilty-i-went-to-the-court-and-what-a-fascinating-conversation-to-overhear-is-there-a-fix-in/

    • Tracey 30.1
      5 June 2014 at 4:22 pm

      time will tell…

    • phillip ure 30.2
      5 June 2014 at 4:25 pm

      bill hodge on nat-rad confirmed banks’ lawyer will be arguing for discharge without conviction…

      ..which means he will not lose his seat…

    • Macro 30.3
      5 June 2014 at 4:25 pm

      If what you say is true phillip – and I have no reason to doubt it – then it beggars belief. Even such sages as Andrew Geddis are of the opinion that discharge without conviction is untenable given the political seriousness of the offence.
      On the other hand the delay in the sentencing, and it’s timing, show a distinct favouring of the govt. (no rocking of the boat). C&D – all wash away no worries people – nothing to see here. God! their a corrupt lot..

    • Anne 30.4
      5 June 2014 at 5:21 pm

      phillip ure

      Well known right wing personality. Michelle Boag? She was there because her name has just been mentioned by RNZ in relation to her presence.

      That is shocking Phillip. An indication that a corrupt deal is being negotiated behind closed doors. No wonder John Key is not talking.

      • Kiwiri 30.4.1
        5 June 2014 at 5:46 pm

        I have always ‘admired’ Her Precious Boagness for the deals she strike behind the scenes.
        Like reliable rust, she never rests.

      • phillip ure 30.4.2
        5 June 2014 at 5:59 pm

        for obvious reasons i’m not saying who it was..

        ..but the place was heaving/packed with ‘prominent rightwing personalities’…

        ..they were pretty much all there..

        • the pigman 30.4.2.1
          5 June 2014 at 7:24 pm

          Why “for obvious reasons” think they’re gonna come after you?

          It doesn’t really matter, because your account sounds distinctly unlikely.

          Even the most blustery of QCs, after this stunning humiliation, would be a tad more equivocal in advising on the prospects of success of an application for discharge.

          Of course it could just be that you’re making shit up.

          • Tracey 30.4.2.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 7:27 pm

            we are going to apply for a discharge without conviction could be misheard as somethin ekse

          • karol 30.4.2.1.2
            5 June 2014 at 9:29 pm

            Consider this: Banks is the guy that they thought would take over Rodney Hide’s super city – Banks raised loads of money. Somehow that went wrong and he never became mayor again.

            Then Banks was the guy to keep the ACT Epsom Nat flag flying – then came the cup of tea, and we know how they went. And ACT?

            Then came Kim Dotcom arrest, revelations …. then came McCready. Then Banks thought he could get the case dismissed without a trial. He got that wrong. Then he and his team didn’t think that Banks would be found guilty…. etc.

            Basicallly, Team Banks doesn’t have a very good record of predicting outcomes, or winning the judge’s approval.

            • the pigman 30.4.2.1.2.1
              6 June 2014 at 12:00 am

              Karol, I agree that he and his supporters have a long history of ineptitude (actually, the NZHerald political obituary of sorts reminded me just how long!), but I don’t think that his legal team would have been nearly as optimistic about his prospects as you’re assuming at any stage in these proceedings (at least from the moment the DCJ gave leave for the prosecution to proceed).

              Lawyers, and I think particularly QCs, don’t present any course of action involving criminal prosecution as open-and-shut. Moreso for QCs, since they have to justify their exorbitant fees by making the tasks they’re engaging in seem herculean. They are experts at managing the expectations of their clients (because that in turn manages their clients’ fees expectations).

              Phil’s blog on whoar and the interaction he supposedly observed just lacks the ring of truth, I’m afraid. I’m more inclined to agree with Tracey that he simply misheard what was said.

      • JK 30.4.3
        5 June 2014 at 8:37 pm

        Anne – Michelle Boag was at the back of the pack when the media were interviewing Banks as he
        came out of Court – TV 3 News item tonight

    • felix 30.5
      5 June 2014 at 8:23 pm

      phil, was the “be-robed” person Banks’ lawyer?

      ‘Cos if so, this story doesn’t add up to a bucket of fuck all.

  31. Ad 31
    5 June 2014 at 4:14 pm

    Don’t let anyone be fooled into thinking that this causes any stir with the Government. The Maori Party have already confirmed to the media – as they signed up to originally – that Confidence and Supply means not only voting the budget, it also means voting down any no-confidence motions.

    Nor will it have much effect in Parliament, since sentencing is on the 1st of August and the House rises at the end of July.

    • finbar 31.1
      5 June 2014 at 4:22 pm

      Yes the present corporate regime shall see it out till the election.It is interesting that the courts decistion on Banks,shall be on August the first.The house closed down, and the election on the road.

      • Ad 31.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 4:34 pm

        For me the sooner all this bullshit about tiny one-person parties (left and right) and how they are going to radically change the outcome needs to dissipate fast. The best chance of changing this government is to change the party vote of one of the big parties. The chances of the minor leagues – for me – are already as mathematically slight as the Highlanders winning the Super 15.

        • greywarbler 31.1.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 5:02 pm

          Ad
          Chaos theory indicates doesn’t it that slight changes to a trend can produce major alterations in the medium term.; Little parties that can – will make a difference. They have to want to that’s all.

          • Ad 31.1.1.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 5:53 pm

            Causality theory tells you that the left are more and more up against it.
            Occam’s Razor tells you that the most likely answer is the one to choose.
            Unlike the movies, Marvel comics, or the Bible, in this life the small rarely win.

            Time to focus on the parties with the best chance of actually altering the total % of Party Votes cast.

            • Colonial Viper 31.1.1.1.1.1
              5 June 2014 at 6:47 pm

              Unlike the movies, Marvel comics, or the Bible, in this life the small rarely win.

              Hmmmm must tell that to the Amazonian fire ants who can take down creatures a million times larger than a single ant, by volume.

              • Chooky …
                5 June 2014 at 7:19 pm

                Mana/ Int Party fire ants

                …fire ants biting at the pants of the Labour Party….these ants are gong places

                • greywarbler …
                  5 June 2014 at 9:22 pm

                  Strange, ants are to the fore today. In the book I am reading while the character is brushing away red ants in front, others go up his trouser leg and bite him so badly he rips his trousers off in the street. (Set in Laos about Dr Siri Paiboun by Colin Cotterill.)
                  Red ants, just the right colour for Labour Perhaps that’s what would get them moving!

                • Colonial Viper …
                  5 June 2014 at 9:30 pm

                  Then there are these little pesky viruses, nm in size, able to take down a 6 foot human…

                  • Ad …
                    5 June 2014 at 9:55 pm

                    joyous headspinning metaphors of triumph i’m sure.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      5 June 2014 at 11:26 pm

                      Ad 🙂

                      Shear numbers and overwhelming or taking over the underlying machinery is the key lesson 😀

    • ghostwhowalksnz 31.2
      5 June 2014 at 4:38 pm

      He is out of parliament upon conviction, not upon sentencing.

      • phillip ure 31.2.1
        5 June 2014 at 4:46 pm

        ..that conviction has been ‘stayed’ in the court..today..

        ..if his lawyer can nail discharge without conviction for him..

        ..(which is an option for the sentencing-judge..)

        ..he keeps his seat..

        ..those celebrating this are a tad premature..methinks..

        • Tracey 31.2.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 6:21 pm

          even if he were discharged without conviction, and I have my doubts, it doesnt make him not guilty

    • ffloyd 31.3
      5 June 2014 at 5:48 pm

      Actually Ad, I have just seen key, complete with lei, saying that nothing to worry about as the house “LIFTS “at the end of July.

      • Ad 31.3.1
        5 June 2014 at 5:55 pm

        He’s no slug.
        And he can count.

      • finbar 31.3.2
        5 June 2014 at 8:24 pm

        Partizan comment.I liked our P.M. sweating in the Samoan heat,next to him was David Shearer and then a distressed looking sweating looking knackerd Peter Dunne,checking the line as he awaited the cava cup being passed.The P.M. looked regal accepting it,after swalling, was a open page of his care
        Check it out ,its on the uncensord news some where..F— smile,he did not.Hypocrit,with Duune sweating,lets get out of this place.

  33. Will@Welly 33
    5 June 2014 at 4:36 pm

    My apologizes to anyone on the on-ramp, heading south to Wellington, by Petone when the announcement was made. My wife and I high-5ed, the car did a jig, and we had a bit of a celebration!!. Things were a bit crazy there for a moment or two!
    This makes John Key stand out for the lying bastard he is!! Always has been. Now, by association, he is hoisted by John Banks petard. His head needs to roll as well!
    Graham McGready deserves a big vote of thanks. His ‘bankruptcy’ needs to be wiped. After all it is money he owes to the courts due to legal action, not swindling people, or being a crook!!
    As a republican, I could never stand to see him knighted, but fu!k, he deserves the highest honour we have – for honesty, and for services rendered!!
    This is the sort of shyte that the opposition has to make stick to the Government. Corrupt, corrupt, corrupt!! Old smiley and wave can’t dig himself out of this shyte!!

    • srylands 33.1
      5 June 2014 at 4:42 pm

      I think you should calm down. It won’t affect the Government’s operations at all, nor its immense popularity.

      • Will@Welly 33.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 4:53 pm

        Is Tony Abbott blowing a warm didgeridoo up your back passage? Something stinks. I would check your combustibles – something might explode, like an unused brain, or a malcontent, forever living in purgatory.

      • Chooky 33.1.2
        5 June 2014 at 4:58 pm

        srylands … lol …like your hard boiled humour!….you ARE a hard boiled one!

      • Ad 33.1.3
        5 June 2014 at 5:03 pm

        On the money.

        Anyone who wants to change the government, just suck it in, put your beer down, and get back to work.

        (granted srylands you don’t)

      • ffloyd 33.1.4
        5 June 2014 at 5:53 pm

        S’s Missing the point a bit aren’t you?

        • Ad 33.1.4.1
          5 June 2014 at 5:59 pm

          Anyone who is celebrating right now, stop it.

          Instead, we open our chequebooks, we open our volunteer-time diaries. We change the government with work and time and money.

          Stop focussing on little seats and their attendant micro-dramas, and focus on parties with the chance of altering the % of the Party Vote in parliament. There is no other way to win now.

          That is the only point we need to think about for the next 3.5 months.

          • karol 33.1.4.1.1
            5 June 2014 at 6:05 pm

            Yep.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 33.1.4.1.2
            5 June 2014 at 6:17 pm

            +∞

          • Chooky 33.1.4.1.3
            5 June 2014 at 7:32 pm

            it is worth a celebration!

            …this court ruling dents NACT’s integrity

            …this time the mud has stuck!…the judiciary has said Banks needs to be held to account ……and NACT cant squirm out of it !

            ….the reputation of John Key’s NACT govt and what it is held together by ie John Banks has suffered a loss of face BIG TiME!

            Yeah lets celebrate and toast Graeme McCready and Penny Bright!!!!

            ( But yeah the Election looms….and the outcome of this is what matters most)

          • anker 33.1.4.1.4
            5 June 2014 at 8:06 pm

            AD @ 33.1.4.1 100+

          • Colonial Viper 33.1.4.1.5
            5 June 2014 at 8:11 pm

            Instead, we open our chequebooks, we open our volunteer-time diaries. We change the government with work and time and money.

            National is going to start rolling out some sweet policy soon. I reckon you can bet on it. I hope Labour has something up it’s sleeve to serve in return because raising the retirement age, abolishing coat tailing, reviewing the GCSB legislation, raising the minimum wage by 75c/hr, giving Fletchers a tonne of money to build new houses and doing something with campervans is proving total centrist BS so far.

  34. emergency mike 34
    5 June 2014 at 4:39 pm

    Wow is sanity making a comeback or something?

    I’m guessing Penny Bright is getting sh*tfaced 2nite.

  35. One Anonymous Bloke 35
    5 June 2014 at 4:45 pm

    Was there ever any doubt?

    Does it come as a surprise to anyone that a low-life bigot should turn out to be a criminal to boot?

  36. ghostwhowalksnz 36
    5 June 2014 at 4:47 pm

    Look at all the dodgy dealings Banks has been involved with as an MP

    A: In late 1986, amid public outcry over violent crimes, Banks released details of previous convictions of two accused but survived contempt of court charges.”

    B: In 1993, Mr Prebble accused him of interfering in a police tender (for flak jackets) after the deadline was extended to allow a company owned by a Whangarei friend to make a late bid”

    C: “Conflict of interest allegations were raised when, as Tourism Minister, he submitted a bid for the Waitangi Resort Hotel”

    And there is his private business interests

    “In 2007, John Banks, Peter Huljich and former National Party leader Don Brash set up Huljich Wealth Management Ltd., with Banks taking over the management role in October 2010. A month later, the Securities Commission laid criminal charges against the company now called HWM NZ Holdings, which resulted in a criminal conviction for Peter Huljich for misleading prospective investors by misrepresenting the investment performance of the scheme’s funds in offer documents.

    D: Although he must have been aware of the disinformation in those offer documents, somehow Banks escaped prosecution for misleading investors,”

    And then there is the bee pollen saga:

    Auckland Mayor John Banks’ allegations of greed and dishonesty against former business partners have not been accepted in a civil case in the High Court.
    E: In a written ruling released yesterday, Justice Geoffrey Venning said he did not accept Mr Banks’ “assertions of dishonesty” against Topline directors Jeff and Ben Cook.
    Outlining Mr Banks’ evidence, and his change of heart regarding the Cooks, Justice Venning said the mayor’s sworn affidavit did not match up with his subsequent testimony in court.
    He was telling porkies in court in this instance too.

  37. dimebag russell 37
    5 June 2014 at 5:24 pm

    the little bag of piss and wind finally got what was coming to him. he has been stealingoff the poor and shystering for so long that he began to think he was above the law. so guess what johnny. you are a common crim.

  38. Not a PS Staffer 38
    5 June 2014 at 5:27 pm

    Yes, as AD states above, it is time to remove the bullshit of Parliamentary Coat tails.
    The Epsom cup-of tea deals undermine democracy.
    The split-your-vote approach of the Greens Mana and ACT is dishonest.

    The only vote that counts is the Party Vote. Anyone who gives their Electorate Vote to ther Labour MP and their Party Vote to the Greens or to Mana is voting againt a Labour lead Governement.

  39. Marius 39
    5 June 2014 at 5:35 pm

    Banks will get an initial home d sentence busted down to nothing (like the Doug Graham boys in which the judge said something along the lines that the crime didnt hurt the victims that much. lol). But banks will get good points for being an xtian. P.s – i think they got 20 cents in the dollar. not much hurt at all. Waaaaaa

  40. Graham 40
    5 June 2014 at 5:45 pm

    I think the only thing left now for the government to do is call a snap election
    Because we don’t want a corrupt mps vote
    Unfortunately the latest Roy Morgan polls
    Which the left love have the green labour support at a combined 39 %
    So bring it on

  41. dimebag russell 41
    5 June 2014 at 5:47 pm

    no snap election. banks will not be sentenced for his crime until after parliament rises.

  42. tangled_up 42
    5 June 2014 at 5:59 pm

    John Key 2012:

    Asked if he was happy for ministers to act unethically as long as they complied with the law, Mr Key said: “There is quite a wide definition of ethics … The test I have to apply is the law.”

    As prime minister Key was only required to have confidence in his minister. “I have to believe what they tell me or how can I possibly enjoy their confidence? I’ve dealt with John a lot over the last couple of years and I’ve found him to be honest.

    I wonder if Key still has confidence in his minister?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 42.1
      5 June 2014 at 6:18 pm

      Banks isn’t a minister.

      • tangled_up 42.1.1
        5 June 2014 at 6:33 pm

        opps yep, try ‘member of his Government’.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 42.1.1.1
          5 June 2014 at 6:44 pm

          Yeah, that might involve expressing confidence by proxy in Peter Dunne and Judith Collins.

          Danger, Johnny Key, danger!

  43. Clean_power 43
    5 June 2014 at 6:27 pm

    Banks was careless and reckless enough to get involved with a German con-man. High price to pay, but fair.

    • Tracey 43.1
      5 June 2014 at 6:34 pm

      hmmm and yet the judge found him credible and open about past offending.

      remember act claimed they knew about garretts past conviction but as it was years before when he was young…. seems act only applies that rule to themselves.

      most perturbing to some is how clear the judge was about what he tbought of dotcoms reliability and credibility as a witness.

      dotcom did not lay the private prosecution.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 43.2
      5 June 2014 at 6:37 pm

      A German con-man who Justice Wylie described as a reliable witness, whose account is backed by his recently estranged wife and sacked bodyguard and Sky City. And then the wheels fell off your child-wagon and you died in a ditch 😆

    • Treetop 43.3
      5 June 2014 at 7:21 pm

      Had Dotcom been extradited Banks may of got off. Looks to me that this backfired on the government and plan B had to be used, (an early election).

    • Kiwiri 43.4
      5 June 2014 at 7:28 pm

      What’s this about “German con-man”? What or how did KDC con? Who has KDC conned? Please explain.

  44. Will@Welly 44
    5 June 2014 at 6:32 pm

    Banks has compared himself to Gandi, King, and Mandela. All spent time in prison, for their ‘beliefs’. The man is a complete arsehole. When did he suffer? Oh woe and misery is he.
    A self-righteous prick. Not even on the same planet as anyone of those three.

  45. Mike the Savage One 45
    5 June 2014 at 6:50 pm

    Yes, the correct verdict has been spoken, I must say.

    Selective memory and “memory loss”, tricks and strange angles used to explain away the blatantly obvious, that would never convince most of us. I am glad a High Court judge has once for all spoken as he should have, and the evidence was convincing.

    John Banks, always trying to claim the moral high ground, has been proved to be wrong, and basically dishonest. So take it dear John, accept the verdict, and front up to the public at last. Take your due sentence when it will be spoken, and do not bother us with your presence in media and politics anymore, thanks.

    I recommend the following song and clip available via You Tube, and I will never forget it, good job in this case, Dotcom:

    Also a timely song to play, Queen with “another one bites the dust”:

    So next we want the “heads” of Judith Collins and John Key, the ones just as “corrupt” and dishonest as one John Archibald Banks, thanks!!!

  46. Tracey 46
    5 June 2014 at 7:04 pm

    Field defiant, Clark exposed as weakTuesday, 13 February 2007, 7:59 pm
    Press Release: New Zealand National Party

    Field defiant, Clark exposed as weak

    Helen Clark’s leadership has been exposed as weak over Taito Phillip Field, says National Party Leader John Key.

    “Helen Clark’s move tonight to start the process to expel him from the Labour Party only happened after Mr Field told the media today he was jumping ship.

    “This is a Prime Minister who was prepared to cynically cling to power by continuing to exercise Mr Field’s vote, no matter what. She would have used any excuse to not act against him to maintain her slim one-vote majority.

    “Mr Field, by talking to the media on Helen Clark’s big day, forced her hand.

    “This is not a Prime Minister in control, but a Prime Minister in damage control.

    “Helen Clark has shown no leadership. She concocted an expensive, toothless inquiry that she knew would never get to the bottom of the allegations against Mr Field.

    “Then she sat on her hands when Mr Field said he would decline to co-operate with the police inquiry.

    “Today, Mr Field has forced her hand by open defiance in the media.

    “With a motion of no confidence in the Labour Government being voted on this Thursday, Helen Clark should immediately say whether Labour will continue to exercise Mr Field’s vote.”

  47. dimebag russell 47
    5 June 2014 at 7:41 pm

    just as well.
    money doesn’t smell.
    what a tale it would tell.
    and they all went straight to hell!

  48. Chooky 48
    5 June 2014 at 7:43 pm

    Martyn Bradbury on John Banks

    “Banks Guilty – let’s keep the triumphalism to a quiet din”

    By Martyn Bradbury / June 5, 2014

    “John Banks will be doing more self-flagellation than any of us could ever mete out to him…

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/06/05/banks-guilty-lets-keep-the-triumphalism-to-a-quiet-din/

    • McFlock 49.1
      5 June 2014 at 8:35 pm

      Seems to be the definition of cognitive dissonance – how many contradictory statements can he hold at the sametime…. 🙂

  50. finbar 50
    5 June 2014 at 8:28 pm

    Check out John Key drinking Cava.Does his body lanquage look like it cares.Peter Dunne,two down looks like a man on the execution waiting for his turn,and the man in the middle Shearer takes the respect with dignity.

    • Mike the Savage One 50.1
      5 June 2014 at 8:32 pm

      It is amusing, your reference to John Key, the PM as “it”. Maybe “it” is a bizarre being from outer space, to set upon us, like a curse, to try and destroy us here, on planet earth. “It” (the beast kind of) has a lot to answer for, I presume.

  51. gnomic 51
    5 June 2014 at 8:35 pm

    Ah Banksie, so many memories, but mainly unhappy ones I fear. Some may recall his stint as a talkback host, particularly the phase when he was on Pacific round 6 am between terms as Auckland mayor. One morning he recounted an episode he’d seen in Newmarket when a Pakeha guy pulled out in front of a truck driven by a Maori bloke, but then had to stop at lights. Maori truckie gave other driver a piece of his mind when he came alongside. Banksie’s reaction was regret that he hadn’t had his pistol with him, otherwise he would have laid down the law. I had always thought John was mad, but thereafter I was certain. His pronunciation of the word wahine was most unusual with that strange stilted tone which frequently occurred in his rantings. He must have had some speech therapy prior to his second mayoral term, he scarcely sounded like himself any more. It took half the fun out of things, Banksie sounding like a normal person.

  52. Redzone 52
    5 June 2014 at 11:10 pm

    Good job – finally got what you deserved banks. If you had any integrity you would resign right now.

    But you won’t – today you couldn’t even say ‘I’ after the verdict it was ‘we’ – sorry who the fuck failed to declare? take some ownership that you lied. But you can’t.

    But no,stay there another 6 weeks keeping the seat warm, drawing your fat salary and symbolise everything that’s wrong with this corrupt government .

    Free hits for the left all the way to August.

    • Kiwiri 52.1
      5 June 2014 at 11:30 pm

      “another 6 weeks keeping the seat warm, drawing your fat salary”

      good point.

      can someone total up the amount of the taxpayers’ money that this convicted criminal will continue to draw on?

      please also include his perks, super scheme and all other benefits of being a minister outside cabinet. oh, and also the top-up he gets as leader of the sham, solo act, extend and pretend party.

      i bet the likes of paddy, guyon, suzi, armstrong, watkins, audrey et al are working on the grand total furiously and will trip each other up in the rush to aggressively broadcast this in the media tomorrow.

    • Murray Olsen 52.2
      6 June 2014 at 2:56 am

      The free hits are there, but it doesn’t look like it’ll be Labour taking them. After the Collins and Banks episodes, and something possibly coming up with Parata, they’ve decided to go after…wait for it…..Mana and IP. I’m not sure I can find compelling reasons to even give them an electorate vote this time around.