web analytics

Banks sued over exceptional bank fees

Written By: - Date published: 12:58 pm, March 11th, 2013 - 88 comments
Categories: Economy - Tags: , ,

The NZ Herald states

New Zealand banks face what’s expected to be the biggest class suit the country’s seen over $1 billion in default fees claimed by lenders over the past six years.

Three of Australasia’s biggest law firms will announce the class suit to reclaim the fees, according to a statement.

The fees are charged when customers overdraw their accounts, pay credit card bills too late, or bounce a cheque, it said.

A press conference is being held in Auckland at 1pm to make the announcement.

It is going to be a popular class action and I’ll await further news on it with anticipation. This particular legal battle has been ongoing over the Tasman as stuff reports.

In 2010, Maurice Blackburn lawyers announced it intended to sue 12 Australian banks for charging unfair dishonour fees and late credit card payment fees.

Since then, 170,000 Australian customers have jumped on board the action and are seeking to claw back more than A$223 million (NZ$278m).

The argument is that fees charged when customers exceeded limits were a form of punishment for the purposes of profiteering, unrelated to any actual cost recovery.

ANZ Bank lost a battle in the Australian High Court in September, and will now have to convince the Federal Court that its fees were a genuine reflection of costs.

Locally they point out..

Under the provisions of the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act, the default fees that banks charge must not be “unreasonable”.

Many local lenders drastically slashed their exception and dishonour fees in mid-2009.

However the main issue with such fees is that they disproportionally fall on the least able to either afford them or to challenge them. I remember reading an article a few years back…. google found it.

The great bank fees scandal from 2008

Budgeting advisers say the poor are bearing the brunt, with some paying up to $30 a week in charges – more than $1500 a year – when they can barely afford food and rent.

The Salvation Army’s Auckland director Gerry Walker said some people seeking budgeting advice were paying up to $30 a week in fees for late payments, dishonoured cheques and overdrafts, and the people who could least afford it were “most definitely” suffering most.

“This is being identified as a growing problem. People don’t always read their bank statements and what’s being charged and whether they can afford those charges.”

“It doesn’t sound much to some people on high incomes but it can equate to 5 per cent to 10 per cent of people’s incomes.”

Walker said the kind of people getting into trouble were the least likely to challenge banks or seek better deals.

Update: NZ Herald reports on the press conference content

88 comments on “Banks sued over exceptional bank fees ”

  1. Matthew 1

    Someone needs to do this to Telecom. They charge the best part of $20 as a late fee. If you dont catch up that month, they charge it again. I missed one payment (half the total bill, about $80) due to doctors bills, and so far that has cost me $40 & will probably cost me at least $40 more over the next 8 weeks until i can catch up. This is outrageous seeing as their collection fees for this debt is $0.
    The Commerce Commission doesnt care, & the poorest people again get slammed with ridiculous fees to cover costs that dont exist.

    • Colonial Weka 1.1

      That is really bad. Vodafone said they were going to do this, but they must have a leeway period – I usually pay within a week of the due date, and haven’t been hit yet. But I don’t think it was as high as $20.

      It’s hard to know if the people that come up with such a policy really don’t understand that $20 extra on a late bill can through someone’s monthly budget out, or if they understand fully and don’t give a shit, or if they understand fully and are doing it deliberately to generate revenue.

      • Matthew 1.1.1

        Its Shocking. I pay the same each fortnight (pay period) I cant afford to up it & i pay more than i need to but only just. I missed one payment, & because i cant up the amount i pay, they will continue to charge me even though i am actually covering each months bill, its just the due amount from that one payment i missed. By the time I catch up, i will have been charged that fee probaly two, maybe three more times.So a missed payment for an amount totalling about $80, will cost me $80-100 in fees.
        Its a frickin scandal, & the CC dont care because they are a private company.

        • prism 1.1.1.1

          Matthew
          It sounds as if you are paying on a fortnightly account, which means that twice in a month you would be checked to see you are current. If you were on a monthly account, then you would only have one balance for each month. You could still pay fortnightly as a matter of choice, but you would have some extra time round the mid-month payment which you would monitor not the company. It sounds as if you are going to be hit every fortnight at present.
          Though maybe I’ve got it wrong.

          • Matthew 1.1.1.1.1

            I am on a monthly account, which i pay fortnightly. So I still get the fee added every month, unless my balance is zero (before current charges are added). It will be interesting to see how much i pay in total for it, & i might add it up & contact Fair Go or something.

            • Tim 1.1.1.1.1.1

              That’s a bit like paying TelstraClear an amount each week, such that 99.9% of the time one is actually in credit, YET when one is a day late with an outstanding amount, OR is about $1.50 in debit because an extra toll call was made – a $15 late payment fee is slapped on.
              If they do it once again to me, it’ll be the day they lose a customer that’s been with them since Clear Communications began operating.

              • Tim

                Oh …… and while I remember – does anybody remember Fair Go doing a stroy many moons ago about Telecom charging a 1 minute call for unconnected calls?
                Might be worthwhile checking accounts because Telstra have been doing it for eons as well.
                If I misplace my cellfone, I sometimes call it from a landline to hear it ring. Even though I only let it ring about twice and it is never answered, you can be sure that the next month a one minute call appears on the bill.

                A mass claim might be in order if the above sort of shit continues.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Yeah man, that’s akin to fraud.

                  Its also why they put answer phone messaging on all services…so more calls are connected and hence chargeable.

                  • Tim

                    Indeed!. I think I might actually get involved. not ONLY because of that, but because of another little banker’s scam whereby I have an account with the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (Uni of Melbourne Branch) with a positive balance (following a withdrawal to pay for an an Air NZ Electra airfare home).
                    Mysteriously, they’ve lost all record THough I continue to hold the original bank book. I suspect the compounded interest due on the positive balance might now be quite a substantial sum (an unintended super-annuation if you will – where previously I’d have to put faith in the grace and good will of offspring).
                    Yep …. Commonwealth (and ASB reps) here I come). When I last inquired, ASB was standalone, yet now there’s not much excuse for them to disavow any knowledge since they have NZ representation.
                    I’m aware of at least a couple of others in the same waka ( and others that once were interstate refugees living in Melbourne – but are now in their native state of Tassy)

            • David C 1.1.1.1.1.2

              Stop blaming someone else for your disorganisation and get it sorted.
              A small overdraft ($2K?) with your bank would cost peanuts and this problem would vanish.
              However if you abuse the facility you will get further in the shit.

              • Colonial Viper

                we should taking profiteering out of the system, and make the system less dangerous, with fewer traps for young players.

                • David C

                  I disagree.
                  People need to own their own shit.
                  Default on a payment and there is (and should be) a penalty.
                  There is no shame in having to run your finances close to the wire, we are all there or have been there at one time or other.
                  Take responsibility and sort the problem, it isnt hard or expensive.

                  • Colonial Weka

                    DavidC, there are people in NZ that cannot afford a $2K overdraft, and others who can afford it but don’t consider it ‘small’. What planet are you living on?

                    If we run society so that a phone is considered essential, then it’s the responsibility of that society the make sure that people can afford one.

                    • David C

                      CW, this man needs maybe $100 for a month or so. Do the math. He can run a un used facility ($5 a month? probably not that much )for a few years for the late charges on his phone account.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      make the system less dangerous for people

                      don’t allow systems filled with traps and fine print

                      don’t allow corporations to make up rules which aren’t based on any real costs they incur

                      prevent the laying of anti-consumer minefields which benefit only corporates

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Default on a payment and there is (and should be) a penalty.

                    Sure, a $2.50 penalty, not a $25 one.

                    And it has to work the other way.

                    If a corporate fucks up, it pays their customers through the nose.

                    What’s fair is fair after all eh mate?

                  • Tony

                    Classic. Don’t happen to work for a bank do you? Or perhaps it’s pure ideology that’s behind your reasoning, but it certainly takes an extreme viewpoint to support the banks in this class action.

              • millsy

                An overdraft might be good insurance from being caught short at a busy checkout, or for getting enough petrol to get you home, but other than that, it gets you in the shit very quickly.

                • David C

                  no I do not accept your appoligist BS.

                  The Man has signed a contract and has accepted the terms.

                  He has said its going to cost $80 in late charges because he has not set up a facility to deal with eventualtiy.

                  Shit happens to everyone, you need systems in place to deal with this.

                  A $2K overdraft costs nothing UNLESS YOU USE IT.

                  Abuse it, go buy another TV, and your a moron and deserve the end results.

                  The Stacey Jones fronted company feeds off the people who cant control spending.

                  To me Stacey Jones is a traitor to New Zealand and should be first up againt the wall.

                  • muzza

                    A $2K overdraft costs nothing UNLESS YOU USE IT.

                    Actually the most standard, and often maximum OTC OD is $500, is all a bank will generally offer without a deeper credit check and approval process, what’s more you will most likely pay a monthy fee of at least $5 for the $500 OD, whether you use it or not!

                    If someone is late with their bills, they are unlikely to get the chance of an OD facility, are they!

                    On this part of the conversation, you’re appear to be too simplistic in your argument!

                    • David C

                      Bollocks.
                      The Man has a job and regular income.
                      A bank will leap at chance to give him debt.
                      It is his CHOICE is he uses it or abuses it.

                      You do know tellars get paid to sell these facilities?

                    • muzza

                      DC, you’re right in some of what you say, but if you think a bank will give a fee free 2K OD, say which lender, and under what conditions!

                    • Colonial Weka

                      David C, what’s the lowest income you have every earned for a period of more than 2 years? and 5 years? and 10 years? State whether you are single, own your own home, and have any dependents. If you think that the issue with a $2K OD is that someone will buy a TV, you’re pretty out of touch.

                      I’d also like to know who this bank is that will give ODs for free.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      It is his CHOICE is he uses it or abuses it.

                      BULLSHIT

                      It’s the bank’s RESPONSIBILITY not to issue credit in an IRRESPONSIBLE manner.

                      And if they don’t take that responsibility seriously, they’ll be forced to by regulation.

                      This is an exact repeat of the subprime mortgage collapse in the USA. The right wing moaned on about how people need to be responsible for making good financial choices. Yes they do.

                      Except it was shown that those bank managers DELIBERATELY handed loans out that they knew were never likely to be repaid, for their own personal gain (quarterly profits etc).

                      ALSO

                      its crucial that people receive sufficient levels of wages that they do NOT ever need to turn to credit.

              • Simeon

                You don’t need a overdraft. Just live within your means. Or get a credit card and get 55 days interest free, credit interest by not touching your cheque account and reward points. Skip the retailers who slap on the credit card surcharge.

                Manage your money better or simply don’t sign up for a 500GB or a iPhone plan.

                • Colonial Viper

                  take the traps and profiteering out of these systems.

                  A large part of the fault lies with corporations acting as rentier capitalists.

                • QoT

                  Just live within your means.

                  Look, Matthew! A psychic financial advisor has appeared to magically inform you of the errors you must be making! You may think to yourself that he has no fucking idea what your personal circumstances are, but you will be amazed at his insights!

                  • Simeon

                    As Matthew has decided to complain of the $20 late fee it shows that he is hasn’t looked for alternatives.

                    Probably similar to his budgeting skills. He earns H but spends Y. He doesn’t look for alternatives to make sure he only spends D.

                    It baffles me that you lefties see the solution to escaping debt is to simply pay more. Can’t afford it? Then don’t buy it.

                    • Colonial Weka

                      “Can’t afford it? Then don’t buy it.”

                      What’s the longest period of time you have lived without a phone?

                    • McFlock

                      Or an oven

                    • Simeon

                      Colonial Weka. If you mentioned that you pay your Vodafone bill late. Even though when you signed the contract payment due dates would have been quite clear.

                      Having this attitude means you think the corporates SHOULD supply you with free credit over the current 25 days. Shit you knew you had to pay in 25 YES 25 days but you can still not manage that.

                      Do you work? If so are for paid fortnightly? How is that fair the employer should say they will payd you monthly on the 25th but only pay it 7 days later. That way they get 37 odd days free credit like you do.

                      Don’t buy an oven. You will probably burn your food. Eat canned food because you cannot manage things you want.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Simeon.

                      Who said the corporates should provide people with free credit?

                      No one did.

                      They should charge no more than the minimum bank unsecured rate of credit however. Say 12.95% pa on whatever sum is overdue. If $50 is over due, than the penalty should be roughly 50c.

                      Anything more is bloody rentier capitalism and you know it.

                    • Simeon

                      Colonial Viper,

                      Did any corporate MAKE people take up the “free” credit?

                      Sure the fee’s may be a revenue stream but there are always alternatives. Signing up to something where everything is made clear and then moaning about it afterwards is just dumb. Similar to investing in Hanover. Or you could just commit to the contract you signed.

                      If the banks are found wrong in the alleged estimated $1bil fees case then that is $243mil less tax to fund your Labour programs. And it is $626mil less for the banks to spend on brining bank tellers wages up (if they choose to).

                      MOE needs to bring in budgeting studies in Home Economics. But then again if you crowd expect others to pay your way then it will be wasted. Put out the hand kiddies.

                • millsy

                  $99 huawei smartphone here (running android).

                  Does all the things that one would expect from an IPhone, but without the 2 min noodle diet.

                  Dont lecture me about fiscal responsibility.

                  • Simeon

                    Don’t moan because you cannot budget.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      We’re moaning becuase of corporate profiteering and ticket clipping. Don’t you ever get tired of supporting big money against your own people, your own family?

      • risildowgtn 1.1.2

        Telstra Clear are $15 – even for 1 day late 🙁

        so I paid the amount and left..

        I think it is common practice esp amongst Telco’s in the day and age

    • prism 1.2

      Matthew
      I wonder what the charge would be if you underpaid by even a few cents? It is my feeling that the collection system is so automated that you would be charged the $20 because you hadn’t paid in full. One can always ask for this to be lifted but it is just another difficulty to struggle with made by people to whom $20 is the price of a cheap bottle of wine to them.

      I pay through a telephone system and because of my concern at the above possibility I always round up to the next dollar and there can be no mistake with the 0’s registering leaving a small credit. The 10% penalty fee on a number of bills is such a rort as the extra costs involved in printing out ‘Have you forgotten..’ and the daily rate of interest they have to pay is nowhere near 10% of any reasonable sized bill.

      And for God’s sake don’t anybody say ‘ Pay your bill in time and you’ll be right’ in a superior prissy way. People can’t always get everything right and the treatment for slip-ups should be appropriate and real not like a ruler over the knuckles.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.3

      http://www.orcon.net.nz/

      Although I’m usually late (I pay it that month just not by the due date) in paying they haven’t charged me late fees. In fact, the only time I had trouble with the bill was when they stuffed up and over charged me and it took awhile for them to fix their mistake (their customer service can leave a lot to be desired).

      And the best bit, IMO, is that they’re state owned so at least the profit is going to NZ rather than offshore owners.

      • Colonial Weka 1.3.1

        Orcon is state owned? I didn’t know that. How did that come about?

        • millsy 1.3.1.1

          Owned by Kordia, which used to be BCL, which used to be TVNZ’s tranmission arm,

      • Lanthanide 1.3.2

        Pity their customer service is completely abysmal. I had to complain on Facebook before anything happened, and it took them 5 minutes to sort it.

    • tc 1.4

      Also check they haven’t levied GST on it, that’s not allowed as it’s a Finance charge so it’s GST exempt.

      Often they do this but will happily reverse when challenged, funny that.

    • Simeon 1.5

      With Vodafone the fee only kicks in if the unpaid amount is over $50 – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10820754.

      • Herodotus 1.5.1

        Also telecom like to bill 1st of the month with the payment expectd within 3 weeks, result they don’t have to pay the gst until the 28th of the following month, so they are able to bank the GST for 30 days, think what the gst component of a months billing is for telecom, and using the govt as a bank ???
        Also a bug for me as Jafaland is one big city why are there still toll charges for ringing say from Orewa to the north shore ? No additional cost for the teleco.

        • Simeon 1.5.1.1

          The due dates for GST are standard. What about IR3 taxpayers who only have to pay tax every 3 months? That can be a lot of interest.

          Telecom and Orcon have those plans that include national landline calling. Vodafone has the deal which comes with free calling to 5 mobiles or national landlines.

          The info is out there is one looks. Complaining that something sucks is dumb because you don’t have to stay there.

  2. prism 2

    The argument is that fees charged when customers exceeded limits were a form of punishment for the purposes of profiteering, unrelated to any actual cost recovery.

    I so agree. Would this cover the case where I was paid a cheque for $30 which was dishonoured and I was charged I think $30 for the ‘service’? When everything is done on line in a flash. If you have automatic payments and can’t meet them, that too is merely a flash on a list that a slave computer broadcasts and then if it receives a negative response it flashes back to your account so where is the high cost?

    Just loading your info is the longest time spent, and the wear and tear on machinery and electricity is small. I was surprised to find that Kiwibank had adopted this approach when I first thought of changing to them. I was disappointed at their facile following of this common practice.

    • Tim 2.1

      That’s close to it prism. Having been a sysprog in days gone by handling just this sort of thing in the banking sector, whatever spin the banks try and put on it, the costs charged cannot be justified on the basis of actual costs of processing.
      And aside from all that, the 4 (now 3) major players CHOSE to increase their actual costs when corporate image, interbank jealousy, and a few other reasons they took BASIC CORE BANKING activities in-house, rather than allow the jointly owned Databank to continue.
      Those were the days when one used to see assembler source code one had written, handed over to the likes of the bailed-out BNZ with one’s name obliterated in change control fields – and replaced with names like Paul Little – (Not the same Paul Little however).

      Oh how the same mistakes are recommited – such as with ANZ/Nat merger. Same shit – different stink as they say. Clip the ticket, pay your fee, roll the dice.
      (and when the limit is reached, squeal like pathetic pigs and scream wasn’t me wasn’t me when people have become so pissed off, bankers are seen hanging from the cross-members of lamp posts).
      Whilst I might not go THAT far personally, excuse me if I piss on their graves when I’m caught short.

  3. Colonial Weka 3

    Heh, was just telling someone today about how my bank will issue a new eft pos card where the default is that it will put an account into OD if you try and use more than the available balance. The bank then charges OD fees. Last time this happened to me, I rang the call centre to get it put back the way it was on my previous card (ie transaction declines if limit reached) and was told they couldn’t and that it had always been this way. Crock of shit (I’ve had an eft post card longer than some of these people have had bank jobs), and very weird having to get educate them about how their own system works.

    They’ve done that same trick with credit cards too, upping the limit without permission and but at least then they notify the customer afterwards.

    I don’t use a cheque book, for the very reason that it’s too easy to bounce a cheque or end up with OD fees. It’s very hard to manage a cheque book when your bank balance zeros out once a week. Credit Unions offer bank cheques at fairly reasonable rates, trading banks could do the same thing.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      Time that Labour comes out with plans to turbocharge Kiwi bank…

      • Tony 3.1.1

        Totally. They could lower fees, make it more competitive & up membership – it’d still return dividends (economies of scale).

        I’m overseas and ASB just charged me $3 after my Mum put a few dollars into my account for my birthday! There’s got to be a middle ground!!

  4. emergency mike 4

    About time.

    “…and will now have to convince the Federal Court that its fees were a genuine reflection of costs.” That should be fun – Yes m’lud, um our systems for maintaining accounts are mostly fully automated, but we don’t want people to think they can use our services willy nilly! Besides, poor people deserve to be punished and kept in their place right?

    How else are Australian banks supposed to stay the most profitable in the world?

    When I try to explain the concept of ‘bank fees’ to people in Korea they look at me like I’m nuts.

  5. clashman 5

    I recently ahd an issue where my eftpos card was linked to the ‘wrong’ account and I was being charged $1 every time i used my card. Cost me about $80 one month as I wasn’t aware it was happening until I got my monthly statement, I wonder if this type of charge is applicable.

  6. Walking on Air 7

    If the banks lose I’m afraid I’ll have to insist on interest

    : )

  7. DH 8

    Takes the aussies to do it for us huh, says a lot about the legal profession here IMO.

    This highlights one of the biggest problems with our justice system; that judges rulings don’t get enforced proactively. There’s been a number of Disputes Tribunal cases over the years where people have taken the bank or similar to task over fees. Can recall a guy winning a case when the bank charged him $50 to receive an international payment, the fee was ruled to be unreasonable & he got some 50% of it back.

    Those who presented a well argued & well researched case at the Tribunal usually won, but all they won was a refund on the fees they paid. It was a moral victory but no more. No-one in authority ever took the matters further and ordered the banks, Telecom, parking companies etc, to refund everyone else they’d ripped off. Kinda sucks really doesn’t it.

    I got hit with that Telecom $20 fee too. Not a happy camper. I inadvertently paid into the wrong account so my phone account was in credit & the mobile still owing. I’m not going to take up a dispute over $20 but if taking it to the Tribunal meant everyone else would also get their $20 back then I would do it.

    • tc 8.1

      Oz has regulators with teeth both legal and resource wise, whereas here we have a few monkeys with wet bus tickets.

      The mindset there is the little Ozzie battler should get a fair suck of the sav and it percolates through the ecosystem.

      • DH 8.1.1

        Yeah that’s probably it. People here put too much trust in the various authorities. Mathew above for example expected the Commerce Commission to act on the Telecom rort and most Kiwis are like that; expect the civil service to actually perform a civil service.

        Truth is the Commerce Commission are, and always have been, as much use as tits on a bull. They never act on things like that unless it coincides with one of the management’s pet crusades and that happens rarely. They get over 10,000 complaints from the public each year and they chuck nearly all of ’em of them in the bin.

        The best way for the individual to deal with overcharged fees is to deal with the supplier direct. Send a well crafted letter to Telecom and as long as you have a reasonable record for paying and aren’t known as a serial whiner they’ll usually wipe the existing fees off the bill…. won’t stop them charging again in the future though.

        The big companies don’t like publicity over their fees, they know as well as we do that they’re illegal. As long as you deal reasonably with them they normally play ball with the tacit understanding that any settlement isn’t publicised….

  8. fabregas4 9

    I internet bank. This means I mostly do everything myself. The other day I amended an Automatic Payment. Took all of a minute. Charge $2. Thanks Kiwibank, I should have charged you for my work.

  9. Don't worry be happy 10

    I rang Westpac to cancel a cheque that had gone missing in the mail. Was told that it would cost $25 to do that. Decided to flag it and take my chances.

    Bank robbery used to be when someone went into a bank wearing a balaclava and waving a pistol…

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      That’s right…you can’t compare the wholesale thievary which occurs robbing a bank versus owning a bank.

      • Colonial Weka 10.1.1

        I’d like to know what happens to the money in the 2-3 days between them taking it out of the cheque writer’s account and depositing it in the payee’s account.

        • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1

          It’s worse than that. You buy something from the corner dairy on a Friday morning using Eftpos, that money disappears out of your account straight away.

          It doesn’t appear in the dairy owner’s accounts until Tuesday morning.

          Basically it’s a fucking scam.

  10. muzza 11

    This class action is a good start, although I assume it will get settled.

    What the public should be demanding:

    1: Odious Debt Investigation by an Audit Committee – Genuinely independent, if that’s still possible!

  11. RedBaronCV 12

    Telecom used to run another scam.If payment was by credit card or direct debit they used to take the money out about a week in advance of the due date on the bill. I challenged them and was told -“so many of the card charges fail we do it in advance” .I have a feeling they killed the problem by removing a due date.

    Genesis have an even monthly pay option. The estimated reading usually takes all the money already paid. The actual reading when it comes is much much lower so people wind up paying most of a two month bill in the first month.

  12. Peter 13

    It would be nice to also include penalties for early repayment of a mortgage.

  13. vto 14

    The banks should be sued for charging interest fullstop ffs.

    All it is is printed paper. And yet we pay, what 5%, 10%, sometimes more than even 20% for the banks’ to print paper for us?

    It

    is

    just

    fucking

    nuts

    • vto 14.1

      What is the reason for allowing banks to charge interest to print paper money ?

      Are you allowed to ask yourself questions?

      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1

        because the global private banking system has for the last 100 years managed to monopolise the act of money and credit creation in the global economy. And our pollies all go along with it.

    • muzza 14.2

      VTO – The notes and coins are paid for by the tax payers, the banks dont mint the *legal tender* for the 2-3% of the *cash* in circulation in NZ, so far as I know.

      The rest enters circulation as interest bearing credit, which is digital ledger entries, mostly!

      • vto 14.2.1

        Yes I realise it is just a keyboard entry. But that just makes it worse! It doesn’t even have to be printed? So what again are we paying for?

        • muzza 14.2.1.1

          We are paying interest as a contribution to our own demise…

        • Colonial Viper 14.2.1.2

          It’s financial blackmail with the ever-present threat of a capitalist coup d’état.

          You attempt to move to a system of government issued money and credit, and the international financial powers will launch a capital strike against NZ. Credit lines will be closed and loans recalled.

          The NZD will into a forced to nosedive, tripling the price of petrol, medical supplies and technology overnight. It will become impossible to meet out debt servicing obligations with the weak dollar (usually denominated in USD), and local banks (= local branches of the international banking system) will demand all loans and mortgages are paid back in full or they will start repossessing assets. Access to international capital will be denied and our bond yields will soar over 8% aka Greece.

          Global pressure combined with protests from a local population suffering from destruction of their living standards will cause he NZ Govt to either capitulate to costly foreign demands, or resist and fall, and be replaced by a more compliant government which will.

          • Colonial Viper 14.2.1.2.1

            They’ve created a system of global finance and international governance which absolutely constrains the sovereignty of governments to rule in the interests of their own people.

          • vto 14.2.1.2.2

            Well that is no reason to not do it.

            Let them ask for their loans to be repaid and try to take assets. The current money printing interest bearing scam will have just been cancelled so I don’t see how the obligation could then exist. It only ever existed due to the will of the populace / government in the first place so to lose out on one bunch of printed money loans at the end of over 100 years aint too much to wear on their chinny chin chins.

            But sure there would be large scale squealing – weee weeeeeee. It is called cold turkey and everyone will sweat it out and then be far better off for it.

            It has long been maintained that money printers are no better than drug dealers – get them hooked and then hoover up when they default.

            the current system is pure evil.

          • muzza 14.2.1.2.3

            Odious Debt Investigation, by an independent audit committee – AFAIK, NZ has not had an audit carried out on the RBNZ/OoDM, ever!

            Should an audit happen, the next steps would likely be a write off of large tracts of our supposed public debt, and using the servicing costs to the benefit of NZ!

    • Colonial Viper 14.3

      The government should issue, increase and decrease the money supply as a public good into the economy as it is required, free of debt and free of interest.

      • vto 14.3.1

        But what about the risk of political interference? Do politicians act in the public good? Especially when something so monumentally manouvreable and masterful is available?

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Progress in establishment of Aged Care Commissioner
    Recruitment for an Aged Care Commissioner will start next month, to ensure greater oversight of New Zealand’s aged care sector. “This sector is responsible for supporting a large and often vulnerable population. While most people are able to access quality care, there have been cases where that care has fallen ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    52 mins ago
  • New record number of homes consented
    In the year ended June 2021, the actual number of new dwellings consented was 44,299, up 18 percent from the June 2020 year. In June 2021, the seasonally adjusted number of new dwellings consented rose 3.8 percent. In June 2021, 4,310 new dwellings were consented, an increase of 3.8 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Communities backed to tackle wilding pines
    Twelve community projects across New Zealand will receive a share of $2 million to carry out wilding pine control, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor announced as part of Biosecurity Week. “Wilding pines are a serious problem that threaten many of the unique landscapes that New Zealanders value. Community groups and trusts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Health Minister Andrew Little responding to the New Zealand Nurses Organisation's rejection of ...
    I was advised last night that the result of the ballot of Tōpūtanga Tapuhi Kaitiaki o Aotearoa New Zealand Nurses Organisation members have rejected the latest proposal to settle their collective agreement. Let me be clear: the proposal was one they put to the Government. The Nurses Organisation rejected their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation introduced to Parliament
    Legislation has been introduced to Parliament to protect against practices intended to change or suppress someone’s sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression. Introducing the Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation Bill, Minister of Justice, Kris Faafoi, said the measures proposed were aimed at ending conversion practices which don’t work, are widely ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • New school site for booming West Auckland
    The Government will build on a new school site in West Auckland to cope with rapid population growth in the area, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. The Ministry is working with existing local schools to determine how the 1.5-hectare site at 279 Hobsonville Point Road will be used to support ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Trans-Tasman travel window to close at midnight tomorrow
    A further 500 MIQ rooms released for managed returnees from NSW Further Government actions announced today are balanced to provide more certainty for Kiwis wanting to return from Australia, while continuing to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, acting Minister for COVID-19 Response Ayesha Verrall says. The actions were foreshadowed last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt investing millions in Hawke's Bay and Tairāwhiti schools
    Napier Boys’ and Girls’ High Schools are among those set to benefit from a $16.5 million investment in the Hawke's Bay and Tairāwhiti region, Economic and Regional Development Minister Stuart Nash announced today. The Government has set aside money in Budget 2021 to accelerate five projects in Napier, Hastings, Havelock North ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Game changing Jobs for Nature investment for Northland
    Conservation Minister Kiri Allan has announced Jobs for Nature funding for a portfolio of projects that will create ‘game changing’ gains for nature and communities across Northland/Te Tai Tokerau as part of the Government’s acceleration of the economic recovery from COVID. “This portfolio of 12 projects will see over $20 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Third COVID-19 vaccine receives provisional approval
    New Zealand’s regulatory authority Medsafe has granted provisional approval of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine for individuals 18 years of age and older, Acting Minister for COVID-19 Response Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. New Zealand secured 7.6 million doses (enough for 3.8 million people) of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine through an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bowel-cancer screening programme is saving lives
    More than 1000 New Zealanders have had bowel cancer – New Zealand’s second-most-common cause of death from cancer - detected under the Government’s National Bowel Screening Programme, Health Minister Andrew Little said today. More than 1200 New Zealanders died from bowel cancer in 2017. The screening programme aims to save ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt welcomes draft report on the retail grocery sector
    The Commerce Commission’s draft report into the retail grocery sector is being welcomed by Government as a major milestone. “I asked the Commerce Commission to look at whether this sector is as competitive as it could be and today it has released its draft report for consultation,” Commerce and Consumer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Christchurch’s Youth Hub ‘set to go’ thanks to further Government funding
    Construction of New Zealand’s first, purpose-built centre for youth well-being is ready to get underway thanks to an extra $2.5 million of COVID-19 response funding, Housing Minister and Associate Minister of Finance, Megan Woods announced today.  “The Christchurch Youth Hub is about bringing together all the things young people need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Next step to protect Milford Sound Piopiotahi
    Expert group lays out plan to better protect iconic UNESCO World Heritage site Milford Sound Piopiotahi and its surrounds Funding confirmed for dedicated unit and Establishment Board to assess the recommendations and provide oversight of the process from here Milford Opportunities Project a test case for transformational change in tourism ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Funding for projects to reduce waste from construction and demolition
    The Government has announced funding for projects in Auckland and the lower North Island to help reduce construction and demolition waste. “Construction is the main source of waste sent to landfill, and much of this could be reduced, reused and recovered,” Environment Minister David Parker said. “The Government is funding ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech at the launch of the National Hepatitis C Action Plan
    Tēnā koutou katoa. Thank you Anglesea Pharmacy and Te Manawa Taki for hosting this event. As a doctor, I saw first hand the impact of hepatitis C. I met Moana in 2019; she came to the infectious diseases outpatient clinic at Wellington Hospital having tested positive for hepatitis C. Like ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Plan to eliminate hepatitis C as a major health threat by 2030
    A plan to eliminate hepatitis C in New Zealand, reducing liver cancer and the need for liver transplants, has been released today by Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall. “Around 45,000 New Zealanders have hepatitis C, but only around half know they have it,” said Ayesha Verrall. “Symptoms often ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • School upgrades and new classrooms for West Coast, Tasman and Canterbury
    A funding injection from Budget 2021 to complete four shovel ready projects and new classrooms at six schools and kura will provide a real boost to local communities, Minister Dr Megan Woods announced today. “This Government has committed to providing quality fit for purpose learning environments and 100,000 new student ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Warmer Kiwi Homes smashes annual target
    The Government's highly successful insulation and heating programme, Warmer Kiwi Homes, is celebrating a key milestone with the completion of more than 38,000 insulation and efficient heater installs in the year to the end of June, smashing its target of 25,000 installs for the year. “The Warmer Kiwi Homes scheme ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Exemption granted for Wallabies to enter NZ
    Bledisloe Cup rugby will be played in New Zealand after the Australian rugby team received an economic exemption to enter New Zealand. Travel between Australia and New Zealand was suspended on Friday for at least eight weeks following the worsening of the COVID outbreak across the Tasman. New Zealanders have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister of Foreign Affairs makes three diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced three New Zealand Head of Mission appointments. They are: Mike Walsh as Ambassador to Iran Michael Upton as Ambassador to Ethiopia and the African Union Kevin Burnett as Ambassador to Indonesia Iran “Aotearoa New Zealand has a long-standing and constructive relationship with Iran, despite a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Enhanced Task Force Green Approved for West Coast and Marlborough
    The Government has activated Enhanced Task Force Green (ETFG) in response to the West Coast and Marlborough floods, Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “To assist with the clean-up, up to $500,000 will be made available to support the recovery in Buller and Marlborough which has experienced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt support for upgrade of Eden Park players facilities
    Minister for Sport and Recreation Hon Grant Robertson has announced funding to upgrade the players facilities at Eden Park ahead of upcoming Women’s World Cup events. Eden Park is a confirmed venue for the Rugby World Cup 2021, the ICC Women’s Cricket World Cup 2022, and a proposed venue for matches of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • More jobs and quicker public transport motoring towards West Auckland
    Work to improve public transport for West Aucklanders and support the region’s economic recovery by creating hundreds of jobs has officially kicked off, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff this morning marked the start of construction on the Northwestern Bus Improvements project. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government backs critical health research
    Research into some of New Zealanders’ biggest health concerns including cancer, diabetes, and heart disease is getting crucial support in the latest round of health research funding, Health Minister Andrew Little announced today. The funding, awarded through the Health Research Council of New Zealand, covers 31 General Project grants ($36.64 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Bay of Islands hospital facilities to bring services closer to home
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Andrew Little have joined a ceremony to bless the site and workers for Phase Two of the redevelopment of the Bay of Islands Hospital in Kawakawa today. The new building will house outpatients and primary care facilities, as well as expanded renal care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Raukokore re-imagined with ‘smart’ relocatable rent to own housing
    Iwi, Crown Partnership Relocatable, fully insulated housing, connected to a new solar plant Provides a pathway to home ownership New housing in the remote eastern Bay of Plenty community of Raukokore shows how iwi and Crown agencies can work together effectively to provide warm, dry, energy efficient homes in a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Cabinet accepts Turkish authorities’ request for the managed return of three NZ citizens
    Cabinet has agreed to the managed return of a New Zealand citizen and her two young children from Turkey, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. The three have been in immigration detention in Turkey since crossing the border from Syria earlier this year. Turkey has requested that New Zealand repatriate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt delivers more classrooms so children can focus on learning
    Extra Government investment in classrooms and school building projects will enable students and teachers to focus on education rather than overcrowding as school rolls grow across the country, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis say. The pair visited Ruakākā School in Whangārei today to announce $100 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New station a platform for AirportLink to take off
    Every Aucklander with access to the rail network will now have a quick and convenient trip to the airport, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said during the official opening of the new Puhinui Interchange today. The new interchange links the rail platform with a new bus ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 10 days sick leave for employees delivered
    Legislation doubling employees’ minimum sick leave entitlement to 10 days comes into effect today, bringing benefits to both businesses and employees, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood announced today. “Our Government is delivering on a key manifesto commitment to help Kiwis and workplaces stay healthy,” Michael Wood said. “COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister congratulates Fiame Naomi Mata’afa on Election Win
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern tonight congratulated Prime Minister-elect Fiame Naomi Mata’afa on her victory in the Samoa’s general election. “New Zealand has a special relationship with Samoa, anchored in the Treaty of Friendship. We look forward to working with Samoa’s new government in the spirit of partnership that characterises this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Quarantine Free Travel with Australia suspended
    Quarantine Free Travel from all Australian states and territories to New Zealand is being suspended as the Covid situation there worsens, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. From 11.59pm today Australians will no longer be able to enter New Zealand quarantine-free. This will be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Growing conservation efforts in Gisborne
    A big injection of Jobs for Nature funding will create much-needed jobs and financial security for families in TeTairāwhiti, and has exciting prospects for conservation in the region, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “The projects target local communities most affected by the economic consequences of COVID 19 and are designed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Flood recovery given further assistance
    The Government is contributing a further $1 million to help the flood battered Buller community, Acting Emergency Management Minister Kris Faafoi announced today. “Buller is a small community which has found itself suddenly facing significant and ongoing welfare costs. While many emergency welfare costs are reimbursed by Government, this money ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Funding for five projects to reduce food waste
    The Government is funding five projects to help address the growing problem of food waste, Environment Minister David Parker announced today. “New Zealand households throw away nearly 300,000 tonnes of food every year, half of which could still be eaten. By supporting these initiatives, we’re taking steps to reduce this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Temporary Accommodation Service activated for West Coast flooding event
    The Temporary Accommodation Service (TAS) has been activated today - meaning residents on the West Coast of the South Island and in the Marlborough region hit by flooding over the weekend can now access help finding temporary accommodation, announced Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing) Poto Williams in Westport today. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pause to Quarantine Free Travel from South Australia to New Zealand
    Quarantine Free Travel from South Australia to New Zealand will be paused from 11.59am (NZT) tonight, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins has announced. However, people currently in the state who ordinarily live in New Zealand will be able to return on “managed return” flights starting with the next available flight, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activity by Chinese state-sponsored actors
    New Zealand has established links between Chinese state-sponsored actors known as Advanced Persistent Threat 40 (APT40) and malicious cyber activity in New Zealand. “The GCSB has worked through a robust technical attribution process in relation to this activity. New Zealand is today joining other countries in strongly condemning this malicious ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Remarks to Diplomatic Corps
    It is a pleasure to be with you all this evening. Some of you may have been surprised when you received an invitation from the Minister of Disarmament and Arms Control, and I would forgive you if you were. New Zealand is unique in having established a Ministerial portfolio ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago