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Be Like Dad, Keep Mum (in fear).

Written By: - Date published: 9:42 am, July 10th, 2016 - 62 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, child abuse, child welfare, class war, crime, domestic violence, employment, families, Politics, poverty, Social issues, welfare - Tags: , ,

Women’s Refuge are holding their annual appeal. The organisation is criminally underfunded by the NZ Government at a time when our domestic violence statistics are among the worst in the first world.

John Key won’t help, but you can.

Donate here.

 

 

Women’s Refuge chief executive Ang Jury notes how easily stereotypes like ‘Jake the Muss’ can attach to the reality of domestic violence.

“The image portrayed on the screen is something that’s incredibly real. He (Morrison)talks about how that image of Jake has dogged him, that he’s been seen as being that person, and he talks in the video of how he almost became that person.

“It was just a movie and it became a reality.”

“We think that is how it is and will always be but we have to keep to the front of our minds that things can change and people can change.”

Things can change and people can change. Too right. That change must come from men first and foremost.

Domestic violence is a male problem. It’s men that can make the difference, both personally and politically. Are Kiwi men strong enough yet to stand up for our women and children?

Women’s Refuge can be contacted on their free Crisis line:

0800 REFUGE or 0800 733 843

62 comments on “Be Like Dad, Keep Mum (in fear).”

  1. vto 1

    “Domestic violence is a male problem”

    No it is not.

    The longitudinal Dunedin study has found that women assault men as often as men assault women..

    given that women are more often the lead parent of children perhaps they need to re-assess their own approach to physical assault in light of the role models mothers are to their sons and daughters

    line up with the evidence rather than blow off with your out-of-date and bigoted one-liners trp… simplistic nonsense

    • Even if that were true, the damage done by men far outweighs the damage done by women. That’s both in a physical sense and in the power balance which strongly favours men. It’s only men that can effect change.

      • vto 1.1.1

        It is true

        You need to change your approach to this issue.

        Claiming it is only a male problem when the evidence describes otherwise, and doing such other things as loading up bullshit headlines (be like dad keep mum in fear), simply places you beyond the visible spectrum. Nutter.

        Women need to stop the assaults as well.
        That is something only women can do

        get some balance

        • save nz 1.1.1.1

          @Vto – The studies that draw those conclusions (woman just as violent) are based on instances when man punches women in face, woman pushes man away to defend herself. In the court records and police reports, they are both recorded as violent. Pushing is the same as punching.

          In the school of real life, they are not the same thing. In terms of injury and deaths of women verses men they are not the same thing.

          Anyway, +100 to Woman’s refugee and to men like David Cunliffe who speak up for woman.

          • vto 1.1.1.1.1

            That’s not correct savenz, see the longitudinal Dunedin study.

            [Enough diversions, vto. This post isn’t about you. TRP]

            • vto 1.1.1.1.1.1

              No diversion trp – the point addresses exactly an accusation that you make. Nothing more.

              But its your post so will leave you to it. Btw, it was good to not get the typical heavy blasting response from you that seemed so frequent in the past. Thanks.

              Now – off to play in the ocean where there are no daft humans in conflict….

              • Cheers, vto. I disagree with you as I imagine do the overwhelmingly female victims of domestic violence. However, I hope you have a good surf/swim/fish or whatever you’re up to. We live in a lucky country. Mostly.

                • Xanthe

                  Absolutly with vto here
                  TRP while you promote “its a male problem” You are part of the problem !

                  So sad, so misguided.

                  • ropata

                    Jesus wept.

                    This evidence does not dispute the fact that some women are violent and some men are harmed by violence. Any gender symmetry in violence however, is unlikely to take fear or control issues into account, and can be said to be mostly at the lower-end of the scale of physical violence. One of the authors of the original CTS research has stated that ‘it is categorically false to imply that there are the same numbers of ‘battered’ men as battered women’

                    https://nzfvc.org.nz/sites/nzfvc.org.nz/files/factsheet-gender-1.pdf

                    Do some homework before “enlightening” us with your opinion.

                    • Xanthe

                      I am not seeing any evidence that “its a male problem” is a useful or effective strategy that is reducing the level of violence in our society.

                      In those cases where it is not a “male problem” this stance will make matters worse.

                    • ropata

                      I think the phrase is deliberately used to challenge us. It’s an opportunity for men to step up and help womens refuge.

                    • Xanthe

                      Well I agree with you there.
                      I do have some misgivings tho
                      I am concerned that this approach (and the data used) leads to the idea that
                      Violence==physical violence

                      To sucessfully approach this issue i believe we need to take a much broader definition of violence

      • billmurray 1.1.2

        I believe the use of words ‘warriors’ ‘cook’ ‘awesome’ ‘wicked”haka’
        ‘pakeha’ etc, these and other words in common usage by many Maori are a factor in the abuse and killing of children in the Maori peoples. The Maori people are not special, nor are they particularly good at anything which other peoples practice as part of their culture, unfortunately many Maori leaders tell Maori that they are special and that the have a superior culture, they don’t.

        Most child abuse and child killings are in the Maori culture, addressing the culture may solve a blight in our society.

        • ropata 1.1.2.1

          Your “belief” has no basis in reality. Please post evidence that Te Reo causes violence.

          No culture is perfect or superior. Some things in Maori culture are great, others maybe not. Pakeha culture is not perfect either, the driver for the British Empire colonising the world was not exactly altruism.

        • marty mars 1.1.2.2

          billmurray you are a classic – simultaneously channeling the fool and the hill.

          Keep perfectly still – it will all go away soon.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.2.1

            …the fool and the hill…

            Oh that’s lovely. He never gives an answer 🙂

  2. Peter Swift 2

    Good luck with the campaign. Something certainly needs to change in the male kiwi psyche, and fast.

  3. Anne 3

    The psychological violence associated with all forms of violence and bullying was recently well illustrated online by an enterprising British teacher. This story is aimed at children but the lesson is just as valid for adult victims of violence:

    http://www.ndtv.com/offbeat/teacher-used-apples-to-explain-how-bad-bullying-is-her-post-is-now-viral-1422889

    The physical effects can be healed but, in my view, the psychological effects are much more important and can last a lifetime. I know from some personal experience how it can affect a person’s future and their relationships with other people. Just because it can’t be seen doesn’t make it any less real, and family/friends/workmates need to learn to understand how victims can struggle for years trying to overcome these psychological effects.

    • vto 3.1

      Agree completely Anne

      “The physical effects can be healed but, in my view, the psychological effects are much more important and can last a lifetime”

      And this aspect is genderless

    • miravox 3.2

      “in my view, the psychological effects are much more important and can last a lifetime”

      However, for those killed the physical effects are rather important. On a lesser note, my mother’s nose will always look like she’s gone one round too many in the boxer’s ring. The lifelong psychological effects of the beating she endured are important, but not more important than the fact than she’ll always have the lasting physical effects of multiple broken noses and broken and damaged other parts of her body that we can’t see. I’m pretty sure multiple head injuries have caused her as much damage as the psychological effects of those injuries.

      I’m sorry, but I just don’t get how physical effects get underplayed by people who have not had them. The variations in severity of the physical/psychological violence may vary with the individual and the outcome of a violent event, but it’s not a competition! One doesn’t have to be downplayed so the other can be emphasised.

      It’s like when people say waiting for a beating is ‘worse’ that the beating. This may be true, but only in the sense that waiting for torture might be worse than the torture (or it might not, you might get lucky).

      • Anne 3.2.1

        No-one is “under-playing” the physical effects. That is your interpretation of what I was saying and it is incorrect. The psychological effect of physical violence – no matter what form it takes – can last for many years. It is an indisputable fact.

        • miravox 3.2.1.1

          “The psychological effect of physical violence – no matter what form it takes – can last for many years. It is an indisputable fact.”

          Definitely. But saying “psychological effects are much more important” seem to me to be saying physical effects are less important. Maybe I’m being pedantic, but the comparative “much more” in that sentence matters to me.

          Aside from that, it’s a damned shame that psychological services are not as readily available for people who suffer psychological injury as health services (albeit at times inadequate) for bodily damage, regardless of whether physical violence was involved. Psychological services are just as essential for recovery and moving forward as other health, social security, legal and other services for victims of domestic violence.

          • Anne 3.2.1.1.1

            …“psychological effects are much more important” seem to me to be saying physical effects are less important. Maybe I’m being pedantic,…

            I can see why you thought the way you did miravox. What I was saying (not very clearly) is that the physical manifestations usually heal within a reasonable time span whereas the psychological effects can continue for many years (a lifetime in some cases) and take much longer to treat and heal. There are always exceptions of course and your mother’s injuries was one of them.

            • miravox 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Thanks Anne. I appreciate the clarification and recognition.

              I do understand where you are coming from and psychological abuse even without the physical component can be devastating (and this blog, every time this topic comes up, provides a bit of an example of how the long term personal impacts play out).

              I think its clear NZ has a poor record dealing with mental and emotional recovery from abuse, specifically domestic abuse (in the health system and community, even when the will is there the resources often are not). The familiar attitudes of ‘get over it’, ‘harden up’ etc are strong on this one!

          • reason 3.2.1.1.2

            2012 …….” Jan Logie addressed the Manawatu issue, saying “there is a funding crisis in the sexual violence support sector”.

            “Social Development Minister Paula Bennett confirmed that the $20 million Community Response Fund, which had ensured many of these services could stay afloat, had been cut as it was only ‘temporary’. She said it was ‘tight times’.”

            2015…”A committee of MPs from across parliament has called for better, and more sustainable funding for specialist sexual violence services.

            It follows findings that current funding is not enough to keep people safe.

            Green Party women’s spokesperson, Jan Logie, says the review was prompted by information that multiple services were under threat, including the 24 hour helpline in Auckland, and the closure of several kaupapa Maori services.”

            And lots of general attacks on poor family s and their children from the nats ……

            “problems started when Housing NZ staff were told in August 2011 to “stop delivering social services”, ….

            “The link between housing and health is well established……Children living in deprived circumstances are more likely to have poor health. ” …

            “Budgeting service funding to be slashed — 6:29 pm on 7 June 2016

            “He said hospital wards were now full of poor, sick children every month of the year – not just in winter. There was no longer a “summer lull” in diseases.”

  4. BM 4

    Women’s Refuge chief executive Ang Jury notes how easily stereotypes like ‘Jake the Muss’ can attach to the reality of domestic violence.

    Which is hardly surprising when you’ve got statistics like this

    1. Half of all children killed by caregivers were Māori

    2. 7 young Māori women and 4 Māori children were hospitalised from an assault for every 1 Pakeha woman and child hospitalised from an assault

    3. 49% of Māori women experienced partner abuse at some time in their life compared with 24% of Pakeha women and 32% of Pacific women

    https://www.familyservices.govt.nz/about-programmes/whanau-ora/e-tu-whanau-ora-programme-of-action.html

    • save nz 4.1

      @BM – that’s because white men get off, like a certain prominent New Zealander recently on family abuse or like in the Susan Cochrane case involving her husband, they get away with it for a long time before they are bought to justice and only because the grown up children were witnesses and his arson (which he tried to blame on Maori).

      • BM 4.1.1

        Ridiculous comment, stop making excuses for Maori men.

        If Maori domestic violence rates drop back in line with Pakeha domestic violence rates, domestic violence would drop by 25%.

        There’s that much of a distortion, especially when you take into consideration that Maori only account for 14% of the population.

        This is the elephant in the room.

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

          ” If Maori domestic violence rates drop back in line with Pakeha domestic violence rates, domestic violence would drop by 25%.”

          maybe its time to get Maori levels of income, employment and imprisonment in line with privileged Pakeha rates too.

          • BM 4.1.1.1.1

            maybe its time to get Maori levels of income, employment and imprisonment in line with privileged Pakeha rates too.

            Only Maori can do that, the ball is in their court.

            • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.1.1

              I see, you demand things of people but then go all hands off in being involved in changing things?

        • ropata 4.1.1.2

          Nobody is denying that BM, why else was Tem Morrison chosen to front the campaign?

          Honestly sometimes grumpy dudes like you and vto make me ashamed to be a man.

        • mauī 4.1.1.3

          If your culture had it assets (land) stolen and was thrown into poverty and prison the violence stats would look pretty bad too.

          • BM 4.1.1.3.1

            It was only a small percentage of Maori land that was confiscated.

            Most of the land back then was lawfully sold to white settlers by the different tribes.

            • ropata 4.1.1.3.1.1

              Bull. Shit.
              http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/land-ownership/page-1

              Early settlers such as missionaries, whalers and traders were hungry for land. Often a Māori chief would allow Europeans to settle on a piece of land in exchange for goods, but did not imagine that this meant granting them absolute ownership. Instead Māori saw it as a transfer of particular rights, while their own rights remained untouched. Māori were keen to attract Europeans for trade, and land transactions were common.

              In the late 1830s some Māori realised that, to the settlers, these transactions meant absolute and sole ownership. During this period the number of ‘sales’ rapidly increased because settlers and investors feared that such purchases might no longer be available once New Zealand became a British colony. By early 1840, on the eve of the Treaty of Waitangi, Europeans claimed to own more than 66 million acres (27 million hectares) – more than the total area of the country.

              Not to mention the mass confiscations in the wake of the Land Wars…

              • RedLogix

                Often a Māori chief would allow Europeans to settle on a piece of land in exchange for goods, but did not imagine that this meant granting them absolute ownership. Instead Māori saw it as a transfer of particular rights, while their own rights remained untouched

                And therein lies the core misunderstanding. Maori saw land as something you occupied by right of conquest. It was yours more or less as long as you could defend it against the next war party. Maori had absolutely no concept of legal freehold or leasehold title. Certainly nothing that equated to individual property rights as we currently think of them.

                So when they entered into these land deals each party had a quite different idea of what was being exchanged. Not to mention the usual duplicity and deviousness that was going on … it’s a wonder it wasn’t more fucked up than it was.

    • Heather Grimwood 4.2

      To BM at 4: You obviously don’t realise that the desperation of poverty must be more likely to drive people over the edge, and that Maori families have sadly found themselves to be well-overrepresented in the more disadvantaged.
      I knew a professional woman living in a cold house supplied for her work in the country, who at the end of her tether felt like picking up her 7mth old son by the feet and swinging his head against the wall. This woman had the advantage of being well educated and had a car to drive to her doctor which is what she realised must happen. That was a huge shock to me, her friend, but proved to me that these things can easily happen when parents under duress.
      In short, those who have nannies, home help, live-in housekeepers,own transport have no idea of the difficulties of those in real poverty.

      • Chuck 4.2.1

        “To BM at 4: You obviously don’t realise that the desperation of poverty must be more likely to drive people over the edge, and that Maori families have sadly found themselves to be well-overrepresented in the more disadvantaged.”

        With all due respect Heather that’s a cop out. I also know families (includes Maori) that have it hard ($ tight etc). None of them beat up their wife’s or kids…they love them. Poverty is no excuse to harm your family members…It is up to each individual to make the decision…do I beat the shit out of my miss’s / kids or not??

        Maori leadership needs to tackle the horrible stats head on. The warrior spirit / aggression is fine on the sports field, not in the home.

        Tem’s video is a start.

        • BM 4.2.1.1

          Maori leadership needs to tackle the horrible stats head on. The warrior spirit / aggression is fine on the sports field, not in the home

          I think that’s the crux of the issue there.

          Maori culture tends to celebrate that whole warrior thing, toughness and aggression are celebrated qualities.

          150 years ago, these attributes are what kept Maori alive, in the present day it’s what’s keeping them down.

          Think it’s time for that Maori mindset to evolve and move into the modern age.

        • Heather Grimwood 4.2.1.2

          to Chuck: 4.2.1. If you read carefully my first sentence, and understood it, I can only think you are deliberately trying to promote a distortion of your own.
          Perhaps I should have said that the professional woman I used as an example of one whom one would not ordinarily thought of as likely to harm a child was European as was her husband, and reasonably well off, albeit living in cold house with limited facilities etc.
          I was, I thought, showing empathy with all those in trying circumstances, and remarking that Maori families at present are more likely to be in stats which reflect repercussions of this fact.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.3

          Ethnicity has nothing to do with it, unless you can account for the fact that every country has inequality and most have poverty.

          Scotland is poorer than England (so I’m told). By “your”* “hypothesis”** that’s because being Scottish has something to do with it.

          *it isn’t yours, you stupid parrot.

          **hypotheses are supposed to explain facts.

    • reason 4.3

      Bm go have a glass of john keys sick river water and put on your white disco pants … go spray your shit around your own crowd.

      Your posting up of the symptoms of colonialism is a taste of the racism, law & order ( dirt & dishonesty from the nats) , and probably fear of terrorism that national will be using in the coming election…. we know this because everything the Nats have actually done in government has been a disaster, so the can’t talk about that.

      Regarding crime stats National have kept these high by subverting the Alcohol law reviews ……….. keeping the number of victims and crime high.

      Womans refuge needs funds as National has starved money to groups like them and rape crisis, Life-line etc etc .

      • Chuck 4.3.1

        reason – National just gave Woman’s refuge an extra $40 million funding the other month.

        I know of many people and companies that gladly donate to Woman’s refuge, life-line, Sweet Louise etc…its does not need to all come via the state. In fact some charities don’t accept funding via the state as they want to spend it as they see fit.

      • reason 4.3.2

        Regarding Bm’s and nationals racism…..

        It’s exactly what the racist Aussies would say about the aboriginals ….

        And racist Canadians would say it against their indigenous populations …..

        And racist Americans would say about their native Indians ….

        Disposes and suppress a culture ………. then blame the results on the people of that culture.

        Throw large amounts of booze at their misery …… fill the private prisons.

        The Alcohol industry should be paying the money that Hospitals are having to spend on security guards to protect nurses and doctors from violent drunk patients and their friends ……..” One New Zealand study reported that 50% of ED staff were assaulted by an intoxicated patient
        at work”

        They should have to pay for the extra ambulance and emergency service call outs that the Alcohol industry causes ………….

        All the extra surgery and operation theater costs …………… “Alcohol was involved in almost half of all facial fracture presentations; males
        accounted for the majority of cases and violence was the leading cause of presentation”

        All the extra Cyf costs ………….. “Alcohol use and abuse by a parent(s) or caregiver(s) increases the risk of violence against children”

        All the extra court staff, rehab staff, prison staff etc ….. “A significant body of evidence has established the correlation between alcohol and partner violence”
        “Homicide mortality rates are significantly higher for Māori than they are for non-Māori…. Over a five year period, alcohol and drug abuse featured in about two-thirds of homicides within New Zealand families”
        “Alcohol is the most common ‘date rape’ drug. Alcohol is implicated in half of all sexual assaults”

        And how do you put a cost on kids who have their childhoods ruined through abuse and violence to them or between their parents ???????

        National are returning some some of the funds they have starved to services working hard to clean up their mess ……. $40 million is election dressing.

        Do the booze companies use the tax haven structures that people like john key builds I wonder ????….

        $75 million per week is spent of the drug Alcohol ……..

        • Xanthe 4.3.2.1

          Hmm your argument naturally extends to sexist femenists ?

        • reason 4.3.2.2

          $75 million per week is spent ON the drug Alcohol ……..

          • ropata 4.3.2.2.1

            Certainly alcohol plays a part, successive governments kept lowering the drinking age and deregulating booze shops and pubs all over the country.

            What was up with the Gnats bypassing local bylaws and allowing pubs to stay open all night for the RWC?

            I don’t mind a drink now and then but in light of the prevalence of alcohol abuse we need to re-think the current open slather approach.

            • reason 4.3.2.2.1.1

              Hi ropata …..Yes we have unbridled commercialization at the moment….

              but relatively mild actions would change things

              Put it back in bottle shops ………. stop pushing /advertising …… and stop taxpayers subsidizing the price.

              The heavy abusive drinkers give the largest ‘super’ profits for Alcohol sellers …….

              Having it in supermarkets combined with constant advertising is almost like an attack on the rehab efforts by alcoholics or other problem drinkers.

              Thats my impression ……

              Regarding Act ….this pseudo pretend party were exploiting New Zealands indoctrination and love affair with the drug alcohol ……… they even dissed the green party for questioning using Parliaments urgency laws to loosen Alcohol regs …

              You don’t lose votes supporting Alcohol in NZ ….

              The Nact party did the same thing ( urgency ) when the previous world rugby cup also ambushed them …… requiring ‘urgent’ response.

              Finally ….there’s nothing wrong with social or reasonable drinking … you probably set a good example of this … and that’s good in itself.

              I doubt you line up 21 shots of tequila in a session to teach your kids to drink :0 😉 .

  5. Heather Grimwood 5

    To TRP
    I have and continue to applaud all who help the victims or stand up against the desolation of women across our society subjected to abuse…crushed expectations and great financial struggles often not acknowledged in the greater disaster of gross physical harm.

    In lighter vein TRP, where did you find the WW2 poster ? As children we thought them hilarious and I’ve been trying to locate one to include in memories I’m writing for family.

    • Thanks, Heather. The phrase ‘keep mum’ popped into my head, but I couldn’t quite remember the dad bit. I searched it and came up with a link to the Imperial War Museum. There is also another version; “keep mum, she’s not so dumb”. Different times, huh?

      • Heather Grimwood 5.1.1

        To TRP at 5.1: Thanks for info! I will follow it up.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.2

        The walls have ears.

        • Heather Grimwood 5.1.2.1

          Yes that was the message….we children knew that no-one talked about imminent sailing to war of folk in district.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.2.1.1

            I’m thinking of the ways criminals react to public mention of their crimes, and how that can lead to avoidance behaviour, and not just at an individual level.

  6. ropata 6

    My Mum was a volunteer at a Womens Refuge in South Auckland for years, I’m a big guy and when I popped in to visit her for some reason, the looks of fear on the faces of the women and kids were heart breaking. Also one time Mum roped me in to playing Santa Claus and a few of the kids were scared of me. Men are supposed to be the protectors not the oppressors. How damaging is it for a small child when their own father who they love and trust is self-absorbed violent and angry all the time?

    We need womens refuge and other services to break the destructive cycle as early as possible. That’s why National’s cutbacks are so vicious and immoral.

    Wahakura – bassinet of woven harakeke (flax). To carry (waha) what is precious (kura). pic.twitter.com/HFmnTPxzTw— Kupu Hou (@KupuHou) July 8, 2016

    Look at this beautiful child and ask yourself if NZ should let kids like this suffer for no reason other than the greed of the 1% ?

    • RedLogix 6.1

      How damaging is it for a small child when their own father who they love and trust is self-absorbed violent and angry all the time?

      Next question … why? Because while we are all capable of this anger and violence; it is not the normal state for most humans.

      And again the Dunedin Longitudinal Study uncovers some fascinating facts around the damage family abuse causes.

      Very early in the study they identified five different personality types ( or behavioral styles) that can be conceptually placed on a spectrum: Under-Controlled, Confident, Well-Adjusted, Reserved and Withdrawn. It is the two extreme types, the Under-Controlled and Withdrawn who demonstrably suffer the worst life outcomes.

      But critically they also showed that for children with a particular genotype that predisposed them to be Under-Controlled …. the presence of abuse during a critical window of childhood was crucial to the expression of lifelong criminal violence as an adult.

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