Broken Promise No. 1

68 comments on “Broken Promise No. 1 ”

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1. vto 1

   29 November 2011 at 5:17 pm

   Well you know what to do don’t you… forget all this rearguard action whereby one waits for some giant business to make such an application and then fight it. What you need to do is make those applications to mine yourself – and then not mine it. Beat the giant businesses to the resource and tie it up. Play the game straight back at them. Another similar ploy is to apply for a resource consent over mining land for some innocuous activity thereby locking it up. Think people think. And you had better be quick because the re-election of this lot will see ALL businesses in NZ eyeing up a massive opportunity to get all sorts of things through which may not normally make it. (I am).
   • TheReal Bob 1.1

     29 November 2011 at 11:07 pm

     Coromandel Watchdog for info on mining , the Crown Minerals Act and the MED don’t just hand out Exploration , prospecting and Mining licenses unless you are going to work them. A statement of the proposed work programme13 that provides an overview of how the permit area will be worked that includes –
     a) the size, nature, extent, and siting of the proposed mining operations;
     b) the proposed mining methods to be used;
     c) the proposed mining and production schedule;
     d) the expected production and long-term mining scheme for the mineable resource; A statement of the proposed work programme13 that provides an overview of how the permit area will be worked that includes –
     a) the size, nature, extent, and siting of the proposed mining operations;
     b) the proposed mining methods to be used;
     c) the proposed mining and production schedule;
     d) the expected production and long-term mining scheme for the mineable resource;
     e) the proposed start date for production;
     f) any proposed prospecting or exploration work in relation to the permit area;
     g) the proposed expenditure under the permit; and
     h) if applicable, the point of valuation for royalty purposes.
     e) the proposed start date for production;
     f) any proposed prospecting or exploration work in relation to the permit area;
     g) the proposed expenditure under the permit; and
     h) if applicable, the point of valuation for royalty purposes.

     I think the bigger bulldozer may work …..
     • vto 1.1.1

       30 November 2011 at 8:47 am

       Yes Bob I realise that. But you lie down too easily. This is what the right rely on a lot of the time – a lack of balls in those opposing. And a lack of smarts too. Think about my point – there are all sorts of things that can be investigated that can stall and halt such projects as mines and dams etc…

       Areas to examine – DOC concessions, resource consents, mining applications, land ownership (there are always small ‘keys’ which are vital to a project), water conservation orders, resource control (think what is needed to mine – access, water, etc). For example, you outline a whole list of items to be satisfied before a mining licence will be granted but fail to consider how those could be satisfied and yet still stymie a mine.

       Look, this approach is exactly what industry competitors do – think the supermarkets and their approaches to competition who do all of the above and show absolutely no remorse for acting in such a manner. You lot should do the same. Sure, line up the bulldozers, but also attack the entire structure of the planned operation.
     • insider 1.1.2

       30 November 2011 at 10:29 am

       Prospecting licences are given to all sorts of companies with no capacity to exploit any resources found. They are speculative ventures and can cover vast areas of land or sea. Most end up in nothing, so don’t expect the bulldozers soon.
       • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1

         30 November 2011 at 10:34 am

         And the reason for not allowing public consultation during this early stage is…?
         • insider 1.1.2.1.1

           30 November 2011 at 3:52 pm

           I wouldn’t expect a public consultation over a prospecting licence. Most of the time it is small scale work preliminary work – maybe a small bore drill hole or excavation to test theories about the geology. you wouldn’t do an open cast prospecting – that is full on production.

           Have you ever been to Denniston? It’s a highly modified landscape which still has active coal mining. Great views on a nice day though. From memory the whole plateau was stripped of vegetation by the early settlers. It;s a bit of a moonscape now. Course they could be planning a mine in another part from the existing mines and old settlements. It’s a big area.
2. vto 2

   29 November 2011 at 5:18 pm

   Plus, get in front of the bulldozers…. with your own bigger bulldozers.
3. Tom Gould 3

   29 November 2011 at 5:23 pm

   Can this be correct, that Wilkinson deliberately lied and had her officials hold back the announcement until after the election, after she had burgled he Waimakariri seat? Surely that would be corrupt?
4. Colonial Viper 4

   29 November 2011 at 5:25 pm

   Vto is on fire 😀
5. Roy 5

   29 November 2011 at 5:30 pm

   National broke a promise? I’m trying really hard to feel the faintest sense of surprise, but I can’t do it…
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     29 November 2011 at 5:38 pm

     Thing is, National broke the promise a long time ago, covered it up and acted like nothing was wrong, and only when it was too late for anyone to do a thing about it, tell the NZ public.
6. ghostwhowalksnz 6

   29 November 2011 at 6:15 pm

   She probably all ready knows she will get a promotion and hand over the job to someone else.

   Guess what , their reaction will be ” Nothing to do with Me”

   A long National Party tradition of moving mid to low ranking ministers around so as to deflect criticism of their decisions.

   But of course in her new job, Wilkinson should be asked “Are you trustworthy”

   Then the other tactic is to refuse all interviews , other than walkups where they do all the talking
   • Benjamin B. 6.1

     29 November 2011 at 9:51 pm

     What are the odds that the new job is a consulting job with a company called Bathurst?
7. tc 7

   29 November 2011 at 6:18 pm

   Mine it, drill it, sell it…..here we go as akshully I’ve got a mandate says sideshow john.

   It’s with my business rountable backers and guess what NZild….you pick up the tab….bubbles and expensive scotch all round, another 3 years yippee kiyay mo fo’s.

   Using the looky over there at labour ploy, no don’t look at us were not up to anything….well not much that matters to us that is.
8. travellerev 8

   29 November 2011 at 6:19 pm

   Wham bam thank you Mam! The first foreign dick up NZ’s ass! MAny more to follow, I’m sure.
9. Jackal 9

   29 November 2011 at 6:56 pm

   Meanwhile the MSM joke about trivia that is meaningless… like there are no real stories to report. The Natz and their overseas corporate masters gloat and our environment is going to be royally fucked over. 1% Pure New Zealand.
10. uke 10

    29 November 2011 at 7:01 pm

    The Standard could use the title of this post as a running template, maybe?
     
    Keep all the broken promises nicely tabulated.
    • Dv 10.1

      29 November 2011 at 7:46 pm

      That is good idea.
      And add a source to the quote wher the promise was made.
    • lprent 10.2

      29 November 2011 at 8:38 pm

      Not a bad idea. We aren’t that good at running series except when r0b does it…

      Which reminds me, I have to do the cron OpenMike etc..
      • Dv 10.2.1

        29 November 2011 at 10:30 pm

        ANd also a record of when the the relevant minister doesnt front up, like Wilkinson di to checkpoint.
    • Deadly_NZ 10.3

      30 November 2011 at 11:49 am

      The problem there, is that in 3 years of mismanagement how big do you think the number will get to, May have to add the Calculators fall back E
11. newsense 11

    29 November 2011 at 7:30 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10769439

    Having a massive laugh.

    Who are the EDS? Say they’ve been around for a while. The Nats have an appalling record on the environment and this latest thumbing your nose at democracy is just another example.
    • tc 11.1

      29 November 2011 at 9:28 pm

      dunno who they are but getting large exposure in granny makes me suspicious that we suddenly hear from them after the election with a message that sort of frames the greens as if it’s up to them to make things happen…..who is in gov’t exactly ?
      • Tigger 11.1.1

        30 November 2011 at 7:44 am

        National killed ACT and the Maori Party. Greens are next up.

        I saw this post and just laughed. Just the start. We told you so.
        • Reality Bytes 11.1.1.1

          30 November 2011 at 9:04 pm

          I think the opposite will happen, National are going to be the best promotional vehicle ever for the Greens at the rate they’re going. If National’s antics stay true to form over the next few years they will only serve to provide the Greens with even more relevance, seats and influence come 2014.
12. Nate 12

    29 November 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Makes me rather pissed off to be moving to Kaiapoi now… Will still do it and make sure to fight the bitch any way I can…
13. how low 13

    29 November 2011 at 8:41 pm

    This govt actions are like the stories you hear about drug dealers they dont care about the people they rob they just want the money to pay for their extravagant lifestyle and soothe their rotten consciences thats if they have one.
    • Campbell Larsen 13.1

      30 November 2011 at 8:32 am

      Corrupt and self serving politicians and governments do far more damage to countries than drug dealers ever could. On top of this they have the gall to pretend to be serving the people. In comparison the drug dealer looks like an honest businessman.
      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        30 November 2011 at 10:37 am

        Its the politicians who are in cahoots with the investment banksters who are the real problem.
        • vto 13.1.1.1

          30 November 2011 at 10:46 am

          That’s right CV, and on that note, can someone explain why the government needs to engage an investment bank or two to sell the state assets? I mean, the government could easily do it solo – it’s not as if the demand is not going to be there – and save the taxpayers about $100 million.

          Why the need for an investment bank or two to sell the state assets? Anyone?
14. Craig Kendrick 14

    29 November 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Is anybody really surprised, ladies and gentlemen we are now living in fascist capitalistic dictatorship for the next 3 years.
    • Draco T Bastard 14.1

      29 November 2011 at 10:40 pm

      +1
      • Akldnut 14.1.1

        29 November 2011 at 10:53 pm

        +1
15. Benjamin B. 15

    29 November 2011 at 9:52 pm

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2503712/govt-breaks-its-word-over-coalmining-forest-and-bird

    “The minister, Kate Wilkinson, was too busy to talk to Checkpoint”
    • mike 15.1

      29 November 2011 at 10:26 pm

      lprent as well as the Broken Promises Series how about a running tally of “National minister declined to speak to us/was too busy/said the message didn’t get through/said her dog ate our invitation/could not be reached about X issue.” Maybe a wee digital counter under the ads on the right.
    • Hami Shearlie 15.2

      30 November 2011 at 11:45 pm

      Busy doing what exactly? At a beginners class learning how to lie and not get caught? Maybe she was out line-dancing? Or maybe “mine”-dancing – that’s where you dance around every question put to you about the dangers of mining in nz, especially Pike River questions! Why do I always expect her to be chewing a piece of straw and wearing chaps!
16. mac1 16

    29 November 2011 at 10:41 pm

    The point that comes to me is how will the Greens react to a broken promise on a well-publicised area. It seems that firstly, it’s a signal as to how arrogant this 2nd Nact government will be, secondly it’s a tester for the Greens (and the rest of us) as to their (our) spine and spleen, and thirdly it’s a warning that promises mean nothing.
    • Draco T Bastard 16.1

      29 November 2011 at 10:42 pm

      I can’t remember a time when National ever made a promise that it wasn’t planning to break.
      • mac1 16.1.1

        29 November 2011 at 10:58 pm

        It does add to your credibility, Draco T, when you run your psychopathy angle, that the Nactoids act psychopathically, or is it ‘dinimically?” by breaking promises- without even bothering to front the media. Accountability? Not in the lexicon.
        • mike 16.1.1.1

          30 November 2011 at 12:31 am

          To the psychopath the fact that people will give them what they want and all they have to do is say “I promise X”, is greatly amusing. Promises are just things they say to get what they want.

          One might well think, “but no one could get away with repeatedly breaking promises,” but it’s not that simple. The psychopath has manipulation tactics for days without the boundaries of shame, regret, guilt, and fear like silly ‘normal’ people have. Divide and conquer, poison the well, deny, lie, claim the moral high ground, scare tactics, etc. He doesn’t need everyone to fall for it, just the ones that are useful. The rest can say what they want, he’ll just label them uninformed, jealous, crazy, hysterical, negative, etc, and his audience will lap it up. When someone calls them on a lie, they turn it around on the doubter – “You didn’t keep that promise.” “We work in a dinamic environment.” See that? The issue is no longer that he didn’t keep his promise, it’s about YOU not fully appreciating the subtleties of the situation. Maybe YOU should consider more carefully before YOU make attacking insinuations like that.

          When they are done destroying your life, and taking what they want, they will stand there like they are beyond reproach, tell you that the disasters that have happened to you since they arrived were someone else’s fault, bad luck, or most likely, your own fault. Then it will be “Akshully, I’m leaving now, have a nice life.”

          That’s a psychopath. The vast majority are not deranged serial killers any more than the vast majority of basketball players are NBA Allstars. The vast majority are living normal(ish) lives pretending that they are just like you. Their dream job is one where they get to fuck people over by using their unbridled manipulation skills. That you are stupid enough to fall for it, just proves to them that they are smart, you are dumb, and that you deserve it for being so weak.
      • Fermionic Interference 16.1.2

        30 November 2011 at 11:49 am

        asset sales?? Though not a useful promise at that and they have flubbed and bulled on about how it was needed to paydown debt but now it’s just a big money scramble
17. Dv 17

    30 November 2011 at 7:00 am

    As all the voted are not counted, and parliament is dissolved, what authority do they have to do such stuff at the moment?
    • Carol 17.1

      30 November 2011 at 7:07 am

      There’s a parliamentary manual providing guidelines for the operation of a caretaker goernment while a government is being negotiated.
18. stever 18

    30 November 2011 at 7:11 am

    And from RNZ…

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/remote-player?id=2503712“
19. Uturn 19

    30 November 2011 at 8:18 am

    A while ago, Richard Prebble wrote a book called, I’ve Been Thinking. In it he talks about how he pushed through a number of changes in NZ during the Rogernomics era. He outlines his M.O. and one of the points was to proceed faster than the puclic could react: he thought then that not taking the people with you was beneficial. He thought a nation was a private company and he was the biggest businessman in it. He was wrong. Not only did his government end, but so did Helen Clark’s, whose main problem was that they too travelled too fast for the public to follow willingly – though this time over social issues. These two politicians had different aims but both fell prey to the weakness of hubris. It shows it is a truth for our political environment.

    John Key and friends are about to make the same mistake. They will lie and cheat and sell off whatever they want and push faster than ever to their ends. But they’ll not be voted in again. A private company is not democratic. A nation removes arrogant managers with glee. I look forward to the day when NZ once again has politicians – those who understand a nation is not a business, that the economy is not all there is – instead of bored captains of industry and wannabe’s playing corporate games.
    • Fotran 19.1

      30 November 2011 at 1:56 pm

      Helen broke a Constitutional subject, without consultation, by abolishing the Privy Council.
      Denniston is not a Constitutional subject, but an Environmental one, which can be changed by Parliamentary law. Privy Council should have been debated and probably referended, but was unilaterally changed with no consultation.
      • lprent 19.1.1

        30 November 2011 at 3:12 pm

        FFS: You’d have to have been a dim, deaf or not very interested.

        There were decades of consultations amongst the people who knew what in the hell it was being used for. Lawyers, judges, and parliamentarians. I first ran across some of the arguments in the debate when I did my first law paper at the University of Waikato in 1980. And that was in the management school. The debate was very old then. It continued forever after that.

        The problem that you nostalgia freaks always seem to not understand was that the Privy Council was a working part of our system that was failing. They didn’t particularly want to allocate time to us, which is why the delays to get a case accepted to be heard there kept increasing into decades. The system was slowly collapsing under the delays. That long debate eventually came to a pretty general agreement amongst participants – grudging by some, enthusiastic by others.

        If you were so disinterested in the issue to have not gotten involved in at least one of the decades, then that is your fault for ignoring it. If you participated then I guess you were lousy at arguing. But don’t start whining to us….

        Based on your inarticulate moaning in the comment, my personal bet is that you don’t even understand what the issues were.
    • BLiP 19.2

      1 December 2011 at 1:11 am

      Never read Prebble’s book – couldn’t quite suspend reality long enough to get past the title. Roger Douglas echoed the sentiment in regard to moving quickly. He wrote:

      Do not try to advance one step at a time. Define your objectives clearly and move towards them in quantum leaps.

      It is uncertainty, not speed, that endangers the success of structural reform programmes. Speed is an essential ingredient in keeping uncertainty – (read opposition) – to the lowest possible level.

      Once the programme begins to be implemented, don’t stop until you have completed it. The fire of opponents is much less accurate if they have to shoot at a rapidly moving target.

      * Brian Easton in “The Commercialisation of New Zealand”; pp 80-81.

      A neo-liberal bltizkrieg upon the public purse. The added advantage National Ltd™ has this term is the potential to flavour the caper with a smidgeon of Shock Doctrine with the impending collapse of the Euro or even, God help us all, an imperialist venture into Iran.
20. pollywog 20

    30 November 2011 at 9:00 am

    11. What has the government agreed to, and why?

    The government has agreed in principle BLAH BLAH BLAH…

    http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/what-we-do/publications/media-release/government-ramps-mining-agenda-on-first-day-back-in-office

    You got to have principles to start with otherwise it’s just more weasly words.

    Brownlee needs to sort his mining shit out and own the Pike river tragedy, otherwise…

    the Huntly East Coal Mine is a “time bomb” after explosive levels of gas were found while 40 men were working underground earlier this month.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6058526/Deadly-gas-threatens-Huntly-miners
    • vto 20.1

      30 November 2011 at 9:57 am

      Yep, piss poor on a deadly scale.

      This bunch of killer wankers can’t even set up and run the existing mining sector in NZ without allowing men to be killed and yet here they are on day 1 moving to allow more new mines.

      Deadly money-grubbing bastards.
      • Bored 20.1.1

        30 November 2011 at 10:11 am

        I weep for our slice of the planet.What is it these humans who do the organizing and the actual work destroying environments don’t get about destroying our planet? We all have to live here, us, the microbes, birds, you name it. Fuckwits.
      • pollywog 20.1.2

        30 November 2011 at 4:06 pm

        eh !

        it’s bullshit that the Ministry for Energy and Resources runs a safety team to oversee electricity and gas but not mines, yet mining comes under Energy and Resources/Economic Development and if ever safety needed to be monitored for gas and electricity it’s in mines.

        Energy Safety in the Business Services Branch of the Ministry of Economic Development monitors and encourages compliance with the laws relating to energy safety. Energy Safety achieves this by working with both the general public and industry to create an environment in which:

        * people and property are safeguarded from the dangers of gas and electricity
        *gas and electrical appliances, installations, electricity supply and generating systems are safe
        * the quality and measurement of gas and electricity is maintained.

        http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/StandardSummary____49.aspx

        …apply those 3 bullet points to Pike river and say Brownlee oversaw his portfolio properly and I’ll give you 29 dead good reasons why it’s bullshit.

        Any which way you look at it, Gerry the Hut needs to get his fat slug of an arse into gear and sort this shit out !!!

        No fuckin use passing the safety buck to Wilkinson at the Dept of Labour she’s just a muppet and Parata deputising for the Hut is just as bad. Probably too worried about which shoes go best with safety orange for the photo op.

        But seriously, this is about what i’d expect from a woodwork teacher turned eatarse career politician turned fat fucking Minister for Useless Cunts !!!
        • insider 20.1.2.1

          30 November 2011 at 4:41 pm

          The ESS is about making sure your toaster doesn’t electrocute you and your gas fire doesn’t poison you. They are like the regulatory arm of Consumer. One of their big achievements last year was Producing stickers with safety and health information targeted at users of cabinet heaters…

          They are not involved in the primary production end of energy safety.
          • pollywog 20.1.2.1.1

            30 November 2011 at 5:42 pm

            Here insider…

            Let me rearraange the words and apply it to Pike river so it’s unequivocal where i think the blame ultimately lies for that tragedy.

            The Ministry of Economic Development monitors and encourages Energy Safety (It) achieves this by working with both the general public and industry to create an environment in which gas and electrical appliances, installations, electricity supply and generating systems as it relates to the quality and measurement of gas and electricity monitoring equipment in Pike river are in compliance with the laws relating to energy safety such that people and property are safeguarded from the dangers of gas and electricity lest they be blown up and buried.

            That didn’t happen on Gerry Brownlee, as Minister for Energy and Resources/Economic Development’s watch.

            I’d be keen to know what reports he got off Whittal on just how tickety boo things were going at Pike River before…BLAAADOW !!!

            …like i bet he knew exactly how much revenue it was generating for the state coffers and his mining buddies

            Now, as if the fat fuck hasn’t learnt anything, he’s sitting back and letting it happen again at Huntly !!!
21. anarkaytie 21

    30 November 2011 at 10:05 am

    Flashmob at Parlie this week, anybody?
22. LibertyFTW 22

    30 November 2011 at 9:22 pm

    It seems to me like every single one of you have (legitimate) gripes with the Government.

    All of you agree that the Government has been corrupted and used as a tool for the elite to exploit NZ and her peoples.

    Why is it that you believe that, if only your side was in power, everything would be merry and great? Why are none of you concerned about expansion of this centralized force (something both National and Labour support) ?

    If it is being used against you, exploiting your nation and your people, why do you think that a simple shift of the people running the show will magically solve all the problems which exist?

    Is there any single person in here who supports a small government with extremely limited power*?

    Are any of you familiar with the political situation in the U.S? (I do not ask this in a condescending way).

    Do any of you agree that power needs to be de-centralized? Can you not see how centralized power is the source of the problem? Do you really need a large, ever expanding force to control your life? A force that has the capability to send people with guns to lock you up in a box for the rest of your life? Can you not see how a large state is utopian from the perspective of powerful, corrupt individuals?

    *ACT party do not and have never supported this ideology, they corrupt the NZ peoples perception of the libertarian philosophy / ideology and are as pro-state as the rest of them.
    • pollywog 22.1

      30 November 2011 at 10:10 pm

      Do any of you agree that power needs to be de-centralized? Can you not see how centralized power is the source of the problem? Do you really need a large, ever expanding force to control your life? A force that has the capability to send people with guns to lock you up in a box for the rest of your life? Can you not see how a large state is utopian from the perspective of powerful, corrupt individuals?

      Quick now, get on the phone within the next 10 minutes and for just four easy instalments of $199 I’ll give you the answers.

      But wait…that’s not all !

      I’ll also throw in a set of steak knives at no extra cost and if you’re not totally satisfied within 24 hours I’ll refund your money, no questions asked.

      You have my personal guarantee

      *certain terms and conditions may apply.*
    • One Anonymous Bloke 22.2

      30 November 2011 at 10:15 pm

      Yeah, because for nigh on 40,000 years, humans had “decentralised power” and wow it was amazing, a real utopia, everything was great.
23. LibertyFTW 23

    30 November 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Pollywog, i think you misunderstand what de-centralized power means. Centralized power is consistent with one entity professing to have all the knowledge and the answers. Decentralized power is the collective input of everyone making the choices.

    The irony is that you, as a statist, are the one claiming to have all the knowledge and answers and you are supportive of using the state to enforce your beliefs onto me. This is unethical and aggressive.

    OAM: It is obvious that your knowledge of history is very limited. Ignoring the ridiculous, grossly irrelevant number you pulled out of thin air (hint: 40,000 years ago is much deeper in the past than you think), produce a citation please. I do not blame you, or think of you as a fool to hold your belief, the state has preconditioned people to be complacent.

    Do either of you pay any attention whatsoever to the political and economic situation in the U.S? The state has grown so large and is so heavily corrupted that people like Hank Paulson (and his fellow Goldman Sachs cronies) are stealing from the people in broad daylight.

    Lastly, why are you two so quick to adopt a strategy of attacking the messenger? Are you slightly insecure about your beliefs? Why don’t you produce some substance to support your positions?
    • pollywog 23.1

      1 December 2011 at 9:46 am

      Lastly, why are you two so quick to adopt a strategy of attacking the messenger? Are you slightly insecure about your beliefs? Why don’t you produce some substance to support your positions?

      Sure i’ll answer your questions but firstly… Where do i send the invoice ?
24. LibertyFTW 24

    30 November 2011 at 10:49 pm

    I would also like to hear your position on economic theory, namely Keynesian economics.

    Are you aware of concepts like boom/bust cycles, price signals, market distortion etc?

    Do you think that the accumulation of capital is zero-sum (in that if you gain $1, someone out there lost $1) ?

    Historically speaking, what has been the main force behind prosperity and innovation? Do you think its central planners (Government) ?
    • McFlock 24.1

      30 November 2011 at 11:23 pm

      just another freaking moron ranting off-topic.
       
      I’ll chip in and answer this one, though: ” Historically speaking, what has been the main force behind prosperity and innovation? Do you think its central planners (Government)”
        
      Yup – more specifically, passive and outright warfare has been the initial practical application of probably every major technological advance going back to the wheel/axle combination.
       
       
25. LibertyFTW 25

    30 November 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Lol, are you seriously stating that war is what has taken us from living off the land to the society we live in today. You seriously view war as what has brought humanity from out of the caves and into modern homes? So i guess you are supportive of war, encourage it and rejoice when you hear about it on the news?

    What is your position on economics? Do you think property rights are ethical? Do you think that everything should be owned by everyone?

    Yeah, anyone who might come up with an opposing position to yours is a “just another freaking moron”. Can you objectively see how this makes you appear to be irrational?

    Are you aware of concepts like boom/bust cycles, price signals, market distortion etc?

    Do you think that the accumulation of capital is zero-sum (in that if you gain $1, someone out there lost $1) ?
    • McFlock 25.1

      30 November 2011 at 11:53 pm

      Do you guys read the dr seuss edition of socratic dialogues?
        
      You missed a bit. You ask a question (generally heavily weighted to provoke a naive answer), I provide said answer, you provide a devastating reduction of said answer into absurdity using examples and pure logic. I then have an opportunity to retort.
       
      Just laughing at the answer and asking a whole bunch more idiot questions isn’t so much socratic as infantile. And you confuse “recognising an historic cause-effect relationship” with “liking that cause and not preferring another”.
       
      Oh – many people who disagree with me are not freaking morons. It is a title that is earned. Objectivists get honourable membership based on every previous objectivist I’ve encountered being a freaking  moron. Deal with it.
    • mike 25.2

      1 December 2011 at 12:03 am

      LibertyFTW

      1. Your style is condescending. Pollywog was satirizing your style and gave no political stance at all, yet you magically deduced (decided) it.

      You assume that ‘we’ all believe the same thing –

      “Why is it that you believe that, if only your side was in power, everything would be merry and great?” (citation needed)

      “Why are none of you concerned about…”

      “Is there any single person in here who …”

      People don’t like it when you put them all in the same box and tell them what they do and not don’t believe.

      “Are any of you familiar with the political situation in the U.S?” You come on a political blog and ask an absurdly open-ended question like this? Be more specific.

      There are plenty of people here familiar with the concept of libertarianism.

      2. State your case – make an argument. Don’t just post a bunch of discussion questions as if people are obliged to enter into a Platonic dialogue with you. Lose the long list of rhetorical questions, it can seem confrontational and arrogant. Look at the responses you got.

      You are the one who needs to produce some substance, and a position for that matter.

      3. Your posts have nothing to do with the OP. There is a discussion forum called “Open Mike” on this website where you can invite discussion on any subject you like.

      4. Use the “reply” button.
    • Colonial Viper 25.3

      1 December 2011 at 12:34 am

      Do you think that the accumulation of capital is zero-sum (in that if you gain $1, someone out there lost $1) ?

      Oh you forgot to mention that almost every $1 in circulation in the global economy today is based on the issuance of interest bearing debt.

      So its not about someone “losing” a dollar when someone else hoards a dollar. It is about increasing the rate at which debt cannot be paid back and hence the rate of insolvency (financial failure) in the economy.
      • LibertyFTW 25.3.1

        4 December 2011 at 6:03 pm

        Well then your beef is not with free market capitalism but government influenced corruption.

        I apologize if i have come across as condescending (reading the posts i can see how i have) but the “as long as Labour are in power everything is GOOOOOD” meme pisses me off. I will refrain from commenting from now on.
        • McFlock 25.3.1.1

          4 December 2011 at 6:08 pm

          weak.
            

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