Call in Malcolm Tucker, we’ve got a live one

96 comments on “Call in Malcolm Tucker, we’ve got a live one ”

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1. bobo 1

   20 April 2010 at 8:06 pm

   Good to see I wasn’t the only one thinking this after watching the news tonight, maybe its me going mad.. Best day in ages for Labour to attack the nats, and where are they?

   Goff tonight should have been humiliating Rodney on tv over the fact he knew nothing of the Indigenous rights deal, and Slippery John living up to his nickname with the whole secrecy leading up to it.

   Being cute with sarcasm doesn’t suit Goff’s earnest personality.
   • logie97 1.1

     20 April 2010 at 8:16 pm

     Sorry, but I watched with bated breath for a foot-in-mouth comment following the headline on TV3 – but I did not perceive any weakness in his answers. I saw journalists interviewing their typewriters on this one.

     As far as Goff chasing your issues, I think we can depend on Rodney and Hone to keep their respective issues in the public eye – best Goff keeps well away.
     • Quoth the Raven 1.1.1

       20 April 2010 at 8:21 pm

       As much as I dislike Goff and Labour I have to agree. All Goff said was that he was a good politician with good PR, etc not that he was a good person or that he was doing a good job.
     • Graeme Edgeler 1.1.2

       20 April 2010 at 9:17 pm

       Absolutely. I was wondering whether the 3news journalist was really that stupid.

       That John Key is good at being a politician is not a compliment.
       That he is good at spin is not a compliment.
       That he is good in photo ops is not a compliment.
       etc.

       It was damning with faint praise throughout.
   • interestd 1.2

     20 April 2010 at 10:00 pm

     sO goff should of been reading the standard allday and then maybe he’d v got*his attack lines squaredup? rhetorical ques funnly enough
2. Chess Player 2

   20 April 2010 at 8:09 pm

   Sheesh, you guys on the left really are in disarray aren’t you….
   • bobo 2.1

     20 April 2010 at 8:17 pm

     I wouldn’t be so cocky with a Nact coalition held together with bluetak right now..
     • Michael Foxglove 2.1.1

       20 April 2010 at 8:19 pm

       Agreed. Look forward to the disintegration of the Coalition of the Unwilling.
     • luva 2.1.2

       20 April 2010 at 8:19 pm

       Bluetak is better than no tack…..where too from here for people looking for strong leadership on the left?
     • Chess Player 2.1.3

       20 April 2010 at 8:27 pm

       Don’t get me wrong, I’m not that impressed with the other side either.

       My observation is more that the vacuum of leadership on the left is more clear by the day. I realise that Goff has to be given his day in the limelight simply because he’s ‘paid his dues’, but seriously, how long can this go on?

       Back when Nact won the last election, and many on this site predicted it would be a one-term wonder, I suggested otherwise – that with Goff as the alternative, Nact would in fact coast in for a second term.

       Right now, I think I was right on, right?
       • gobsmacked 2.1.3.1

         20 April 2010 at 8:45 pm

         Chess Player

         Do you genuinely believe the polls are immune to change, at election time?

         The vast majority of people do not live on poli-blogs, but potter along with their real lives. Only a minority are engaged with day to day soap opera of politics.

         Fact: In 2002, Helen Clark was “coasting” (as you put it), on 53% only three months before the election (not 18 months, as we are now). On election day, Labour got 41%.

         For most people, politics begins with the campaigns. Suddenly they pay attention. You want proof? Just ask David Cameron or Nick Clegg.
         • I dreamed a dream 2.1.3.1.1

           20 April 2010 at 8:47 pm

           gobsmacked, I agree wholeheartedly! Bring on Election 2011 🙂
         • Chess Player 2.1.3.1.2

           20 April 2010 at 8:59 pm

           “Do you genuinely believe the polls are immune to change, at election time?”

           Um, no – did I suggest that?

           “The vast majority of people do not live on poli-blogs, but potter along with their real lives. Only a minority are engaged with day to day soap opera of politics.”

           Agreed – and your point is…

           “Fact: In 2002, Helen Clark was “coasting’ (as you put it), on 53% only three months before the election (not 18 months, as we are now). On election day, Labour got 41%.”

           Fact: Labour lost
           Fact: Goff has been there a long time, and he also lost
           Fact: Losers lose, and Goff is doing a great job of demonstrating that

           “For most people, politics begins with the campaigns. Suddenly they pay attention. You want proof? Just ask David Cameron or Nick Clegg.”

           No proof required. Just don’t ask Goff – he hasn’t got a clue. I don’t know, perhaps he’s saving himself for the next election campaign…
           • gobsmacked 2.1.3.1.2.1

             20 April 2010 at 9:08 pm

             Hmm. Not much content in your comment there, Chessie (Labour lost? Eh?), but let’s keep trying:

             In NZ history – or even around the democratic world – which successful first-term opposition party should Labour/Goff be emulating?

             National post-1999? Labour post-1990? National post-1984? Labour post-1975? British Tories? Aussie Liberals?

             What’s the magic formula? Changing the leader three times?
             • Chess Player …

               20 April 2010 at 9:37 pm

               Well, I don’t know about magic formulae…

               Certainly a change of leader will be required. Goff simply has ‘yesterday’s man’ written all over him…and if he really had it in him I think we would have seen it loud and strong by now….although you’d hope Labour don’t stuff it up like the Nats did and have to change more than once.

               Can anyone beat the Nats if the All Blacks win the RWC in 2011? – probably not even Obama could achieve that.

               My gut feel is that the Labour powerbrokers have actually resigned themselves to losing the next election, and are just waiting until things get really bad again and the Nacts start fighting amongst themselves more, before they bring in the new broom.

               That’s one reason why so many who were so outspoken in the ‘good old days’ such as King, Carter, Jones and Cunliffe are so quite now. They don’t want to be seen to be aligned with the old school…
             • Marty G …

               20 April 2010 at 9:40 pm

               Chess. By your standards Key lost in 2005. He was finance spokesperson, a relatively more senior role than Goff had in 2008.
             • gingercrush …

               20 April 2010 at 11:52 pm

               Well I think both National post-1999 and Labour post-1990 had problems with bad leadership, ugly inside fighting within the party (both parties had the same thing when in government as well). But more importantly they basically had the same set of policies as when they were in government. That was particularly the case for Jenny Shipley who basically pushed the same messages she had when in government. While English lost some of that hard-right edge the policies were bland and very much what they had from 1990-1999. Thus far Goff and the Labour party don’t seem that different to Clark’s government of 1999-2008. And no matter how popular that government was or how well liked Helen Clark were (and yes many of the right are completely ignorant about this and I think many of the left share that same ignorance in regards to John Key and National) its a different time.

               New policies that are different should appeal to voters. How many to whom it appeals to is debatable and you’re certainly right when you point out how rare it is for there to be one-term governments. But what option do you have? Just sit there and let time wait (that could take two or three terms) or fight for it?
           • logie97 2.1.3.1.2.2

             20 April 2010 at 10:12 pm

             @Chess – Not to put too fine a point on this and obviously you were in full swing with your blogging but Labour in 2002 did not lose – they got 41 pcnt, but from memory , the second biggest party led by the now “double-dipping” minister of finance, led his party to just over 20 pcnt. I think Helen Clark was in the ascendancy then … correct me if I’m wrong.
           • Sam 2.1.3.1.2.3

             21 April 2010 at 12:24 am

             Let’s just conveniently ignore when John Key was in the party before he was leader, not to mention that everyone behind him has been around since the early 90s. Never let the truth get in the way of a good piece of bullshit, eh Chess Player? Perfect nat supporter: no memory with a penchant for totally unfounded tripe.

             Keep it up, bro.
         • Rob A 2.1.3.1.3

           20 April 2010 at 9:35 pm

           And who exactly was sitting on the top floor in 2003?

           Goff is not only letting Labour down, he is letting NZ down. A strong democracy requires a strong opposition and the fact that a do nothing smiling fool like Key is still so far ahead speaks more of Goffs imcompetecy than JKs abilities for a good press release.
3. outofbed 3

   20 April 2010 at 8:16 pm

   No
4. Fabregas4 4

   20 April 2010 at 8:19 pm

   This is another example of Labour missing an open goal. This signing is done in secret a day after Key said that the debate around Party Central was exactly the reason that the Super City was required (read consultation with ratepayers and taxpayers about how we spend their money is just too much trouble). Strikes at the heart of honesty and integrity and is a real precursor to what might happen if this bunch get a second term. This should be Goff’s focus right now
5. mickysavage 5

   20 April 2010 at 8:20 pm

   Jesus H Christ

   There are a few rules in politics:

   1. Never mention your opponent by name.
   2. Never suggest they have positive characteristics.
   3. Never ever say that you admire them.
   4. On a day like today where the Government was melting before our eyes talk about nothing but the fact that the Government is melting before our eyes. Even if you are asked if you would like sugar with your coffee respond by saying “the Government is melting before our very eyes”.

   Phil has the support of the Party and will be the leader unless he stuffs things up really badly. He should make sure he has no more days like today.
   • Name 5.1

     20 April 2010 at 9:10 pm

     And many of the said rules in politics, such as always slag your opponent off and never agree with a thing they say, are the reason so many people are sick to death of politics and politicians.

     Damning with faint praise is one of the skills of a good critic.
     • mickysavage 5.1.1

       20 April 2010 at 9:25 pm

       Did I say that you should always slag off your opponent or never agree with a thing they say?

       Rules 1-3 suggest that you should never talk about them. Rule 4 suggests that you should highlight their weaknesses when they have a bad day.

       I agree that good critics are vital, but, their message may not change votes. Democracy is an interesting phenomenon.
6. I dreamed a dream 6

   20 April 2010 at 8:21 pm

   Relax guys! Phil Goff is doing the right thing. He’s basically highlighting John Key as a shallow smooth operator.

   About the suppressed advice that 3 strikes may increase homicide, congrats to The Standard for the heads up. But rest assured Labour will pursue it. So what if Labour did not attack the Nats today? It’s more important to have a proper attack that an impromptu strike.

   As far as I am concerned, Phil Goff and Labour are on the right track. 🙂
   • bobo 6.1

     20 April 2010 at 8:27 pm

     I get what your saying, but sometimes a impromptu attack is whats needed, as with a well thought out attack is yesterdays news unfortunately with how fast the news cycle is these days.
     • I dreamed a dream 6.1.1

       20 April 2010 at 8:32 pm

       You don’t want to waste all your bullets at once. Today there’s been the Sharples secret UN speech on indigenous declaration. Add to that Goff’s brilliant strategy of booby-trapped flattery of Key. Let the 3-strikes thing for another day for maximum effect.
       • mickysavage 6.1.1.1

         20 April 2010 at 8:54 pm

         I don’t disagree IDAD but …

         In TV land they tend to have 90 second blocks. In the pursuit of “balance” they will show 90 seconds of Government meltdown and then 90 seconds of the opposition leader saying nice things about Smile and Wave.

         It is best if we deny them the 90 seconds of “balance”.

         You are right that Phil’s comments are a subtle criticism of Key. My worry is that the subtlety is wasted on the swinging voters and that in political terms there may not be any benefit. I know this sounds cynical but closely lost elections are a real bugger …
         • Bill 6.1.1.1.1

           20 April 2010 at 9:36 pm

           There is no ‘balance’. And neither should there be. News is subjective and they who control the soapbox, control the content and the spin.

           And corporate media will spin what type of angle? When they even bother to broadcast any actual news that is, as opposed to the non-informative pap that constitutes the vast majority of what passes as news in this country?
     • Rob A 6.1.2

       20 April 2010 at 9:42 pm

       Really? Beacause what around a million voters saw tonight was the Labour leader saying nothing but good things about Key. At a time when Labour has amble opportunity to be gaining in the polls and Goff the idiot throws it away and provides lots of Nat soundbites for the next election.

       I’ve given up on the next election, here’s hoping that Goff is gone soon after
       • gobsmacked 6.1.2.1

         20 April 2010 at 10:11 pm

         “I’ve given up on the next election”

         Thank goodness you’re not in charge, then.

         Labour continue to build from their core base. 1% every two or three months feels frustratingly glacial, in this age of instant gratification, but … that’s what they’ve been getting since the low point last year, and that’s all they need to do over the next year or so.

         2) That would mean going into the campaign on 37-38%. Then they have to win the campaign (that’s another story, another time). And – of course – win the negotiations afterwards. Not easy. Not impossible.

         Labour are not going to sweep National from power, with 50% of the vote. Governments lose after one term only because of war or similar disaster. Seriously, look around the democracies. And I ask again, who should Labour be emulating? In the real world?

         There is nothing unusual here. What’s unusual is that Labour were in power for three terms.
7. outofbed 7

   20 April 2010 at 8:22 pm

   As Nick Clegg had proved in UK, politics have changed
   Labour has got to get themselves a young good looking white male or female who smiles a lot 🙂
   Shallow it may be but there isn’t a chance in hell Goff will win in 2011. We all know that
   Fuck all chance And winning is what it is all about isn’t it?
   • I dreamed a dream 7.1

     20 April 2010 at 8:26 pm

     John Key is the good looking white male who smiles a lot. That’s what Phil Goff is saying. He’s saying also that Kiwis will tire of that, which is true. Kiwis will wake up to the fact by Election 2011. Then voters will find Goff a refreshing change from a salesman.
8. bobo 8

   20 April 2010 at 8:22 pm

   I rather be “in disarray” while in opposition rebuilding than when in gov… Allblacks peaking in between worldcups comes to mind..
   • Chess Player 8.1

     20 April 2010 at 8:36 pm

     “rebuilding”

     ?

     Exactly what rebuilding is occurring – to me, what the left need now is generational change. And no, I don’t mean that dickhead Darren Hughes.

     Of course, it would have been easier if the previous leader had anything in the form of a succession plan in place, but then that would have been thinking of someone other than herself, wouldn’t it…
     • Sam 8.1.1

       21 April 2010 at 12:28 am

       Buy a history book. The talent pool in National is as deep as a suburban puddle after a brief sun shower, while Labour on the other hand has a very strong and developing backbench.

       Projection of anxieties, methinks.
9. tsmithfield 9

   20 April 2010 at 8:25 pm

   So what do you on the left think of Goff if his idol is Key?
   • The Voice of Reason 9.1

     20 April 2010 at 8:39 pm

     I think he’s able to fool a couple of dimwitted reporters. And you. If Goff’s biggest problem is that he’s honest and sporting towards his opponents, then he’s a chance at the next election. Kiwis like those characteristics.
     • TightyRighty 9.1.1

       21 April 2010 at 9:04 am

       it is nice to see Labour acting in an honest and sporting way. For once.
10. Bill 10

    20 April 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Having viewed the links.

    So, we’ll allow for devious corporate spin. We’ll go for the unfair and unrepresentative editing option.

    And…..nah, the man is a fuckwit and the Labour Party are being fuck witted.

    End.
    • Chess Player 10.1

      20 April 2010 at 8:38 pm

      LOL

      Love the new site look, by the way
11. Adrian 11

    20 April 2010 at 8:31 pm

    Oh, bullshit. I bet Goff was asked about 3 strikes and indigenous rights and the cosy Smith brothers but they chose not to show it. Arseholes. Worlds worst journos in NZ.
    • just saying 11.1

      20 April 2010 at 9:59 pm

      Yeah the media is more biased than I’ve ever seen it but that is NOT the only problem!
      Can someone tell me exactly what Goff has to offer the left? Actually lets face it – he’s to the right of the (centrist) labour party and it shows.
      This situation is getting desperate – NZ can’t afford another term of national and Goff is not the person to shift them. Seems to me he has no vision and it shows.
      Party loyalty is all very admirable but this is getting beyond a joke.
      We need a credible left wing alternative.
      Badly!
      • Chess Player 11.1.1

        20 April 2010 at 10:03 pm

        Perhaps you should ask George Hawkins if he’s available…
12. Peter Johns 12

    20 April 2010 at 8:33 pm

    At last, some truth from a Labour politician.

    Anti spam word is sense for this post!
13. gobsmacked 13

    20 April 2010 at 8:35 pm

    The time to start worrying about losing your marbles is when your opinions are formed by some adolescent bimbette on TV3.

    Goff did nothing more than state the obvious about “slick” Key. In fact, a post on the Standard said the very same thing, today. Maybe the 1% of us who live and breathe politics will care – the other 99% of voters will either say “fair comment”, or more likely, not give a toss.

    By this measure (“OMG it was on the TV!!!!”), Charles Chauvel single-handedly destroyed the Labour Party, just by getting grumpy on a plane. That non-story got a hundred times more coverage than this one. So?

    Have some faith in the public. They really aren’t that stupid. (Reporters, on the other hand … )
    • Marty G 13.1

      20 April 2010 at 8:38 pm

      yeah, I did say Key’s handling of the Maori Party is slick, in not so many words. But I’m not the leader of the Labour Party.
      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.1

        20 April 2010 at 9:00 pm

        Goff said that Jonkey was “slick” – It wasn’t a compliment. Think used car salesmen and pimps.
    • I dreamed a dream 13.2

      20 April 2010 at 8:41 pm

      @gobsmacked – “Have some faith in the public. They really aren’t that stupid. (Reporters, on the other hand )”

      Exactly. That’s the point of Goff’s seeming flattery of John Key. “In the end I think reality catches up and become more important than perception,” Goff says.

      In the end, the public will realize who John Key really is.
14. RedLogix 14

    20 April 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Every direct attack Goff has mounted on Key, no matter how legitimate, has been dismissed by the media in sneering tones along the lines ‘no-one is listening’; so what the hell he might as well try this approach. And whatever else you may feel about it, Goff’s coming across as candid and non-spinning openly telling what is essentially the truth here.

    At this point in the electoral cycle there are no ‘king-hits’ that will knockout the govt. If nothing else the last thing the left needs is a snap election right now. That would almost certainly deliver Key an absolute majority and reset the election clock another three years.
    • Marty G 14.1

      20 April 2010 at 8:40 pm

      I know what you mean about the candid approach – it works for Key!

      But it works for Key because the media let it. The media were always going to spin the other way if Goff tried the same
      • Michael Foxglove 14.1.1

        20 April 2010 at 8:47 pm

        In an ideal world Goff should’ve been able to say what did without consequences. But right now, re-enforcing the view that Key is a nice guy is not going to help Labour win the next election.

        Key needs to be exposed for what he really is.
15. Anne 15

    20 April 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Hang on, hang on…
    have a read of the full interview at the Herald site “Public will tire of Key – Goff”. TV1 and TV3 have done their usual… taken a few words completely out of context. Remember when English praised Cullen for his handling of the finance portfolio? It was reported along with the rest of his statement so that the meaning was unequivocal. In my view it’s just the TV reporters being their usual smart-alec selves. Dirty politics!

    Can someone do a direct link? (I’m still a learner).
16. Craig Glen Eden 16

    20 April 2010 at 8:47 pm

    I have to agree with Mickey while Goff made a good point at the end but the media were always going to run with Goff praises Key and that should never happen. Goffs point that Key is basically shallow was to late to have the impact.
    Love him or hate him this is the one area that Winston gets right, he attacks really well. Who ever is advising Goff needs to go and fast. When you attack it needs to be quick and clean sadly this was clumsy in my view. Goff will have to better, Key actually is not that sharp, Goff needs to have his front bench up against Nationals ( in the media not just in Parliament) because they really are weak. Get Key fighting fires of which there is plenty to torch at present.
    • mickysavage 16.1

      20 April 2010 at 9:07 pm

      Thanks CGE

      Trust you are well!
17. Draco T Bastard 17

    20 April 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Yeah, looking at the 3news video I’d say that the journalists missed the message. What are they paid for again?

    Herald article

    “John Key is a very good politician, very slick, very professional in what he does, very good at photo opportunities… In the end reality catches up and becomes more important than perception,” Mr Goff said.

    “I am happy to give credit where credit is due. He is a good politician at getting a media opportunity and at political spin, they poll every week and say in their statements what they think the public wants to hear, that works for a while but in the end that doesn’t tackle the real problems.”

    Goff wasn’t praising Jonkey – he was pointing out his shallowness.
    • Marty G 17.1

      20 April 2010 at 8:56 pm

      that’s not what the woman on the telly told me, Draco. eh 🙂
      • Draco T Bastard 17.1.1

        20 April 2010 at 9:07 pm

        Well, true, but then you’re not supposed to take what the reporters say to heart – especially when they’re so deliberately biased. They’re only there to report the news, not make it. You’re supposed to be listening to the politicians.
        • Marty G 17.1.1.1

          20 April 2010 at 9:42 pm

          I am. My point is that for most people these things are viewed through a filter, which they’re not critically aware of.
18. Bill 18

    20 April 2010 at 9:17 pm

    C’mon people. Wake up!

    What Goff or anyone from Labour says does not simply have to be a balance to, or in opposition to, what the Nats say.

    Labour tried to mollify the corporates and in the end they failed. And they pissed off the electorate in the process. And so the point arrived where the corporates stopped playing what they saw as pointless silly buggers with Labour because they no longer had to…. and they backed the Nats.

    The msm is corporate…just pointing out the obvious. And corporates do not have to compromise with government when their own are the government.

    Now they will simply spin to keep ‘the others’ out of power. Spin, spin and spin. And if Goff and the rest of the Labour shower can’t recognise this fact and deal with it in a very robust ‘fuck all taking of prisoners’ fashion then we have to wonder why.

    Is it because they would simply rather be the preferred corporate lap dog…that they are still very much 1980’s TINA’s?

    That would my take.

    For what it’s worth.
19. Craig Glen Eden 19

    20 April 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Slowly improving, Mickey I should be fine come an election.
    DTB we all know thats what he said, its just thats not what was going to be run as the headline. The media have a bias at the moment thats clearly evident, wasn’t it Lange who said they behave like a school of fish when one changes direction they all follow. At the moment they not only follow they cheer for him.
20. big bruv 20

    20 April 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Goff might have just done something right…

    He would have played it perfectly has he not reverted to type and chucked in the typical socialist snide remark at the end.

    This is the way to eat into Key’s lead in the polls people, you can keep banging on about this and that if you like but that is only going to make yourself feel good, the people that matter are not listening, it is time for a major change in direction and it looks like Goff might be doing just that.
21. Jim Nald 21

    20 April 2010 at 9:50 pm

    hey guys
    TAKE A DEEP BREATH
    thanks for the links. i checked them out

    coverage on phil for more than a minute mmm
    lots of nice smile from goff there

    some of my family & friends who voted national are not ready to admit they voted for an unfolding disaster
    meantime, tonight … hey .. who is that labour leader with a smile that is getting as big and wide as the pm’s

    Phil: time to add some more colour and variety to the clothes you wear … do replace that corporate armour with more smart casual attire from time to time
    • pollywog 21.1

      20 April 2010 at 10:46 pm

      Phil: time to add some more colour and variety to the clothes you wear do replace that corporate armour with more smart casual attire from time to time

      Who ever is advising Goff needs to go and fast. When you attack it needs to be quick and clean sadly this was clumsy in my view.

      Agreed…Goff needs a gen x makeover. Riding a big ol motorbike with a leather jacket isnt it eh. Riding a scooter wearing dayglo safety gears maybe…

      …and his handlers need to be utilising media 2.0 to redress the reporting imbalance. Have their own people taking cellphone footage and youtubing it to get the full context then link the fuck out of it via twitter facebook etc and try to get the blogosphere to take it viral before the msm news even comes out with it’s spin and soundbite.

      I reckon Labour also need a mongrel with some real bark who will go anything so Goff can be seen to be the nice guy in control by tugging the leash occassionally. Kelvin Davis sounds like he might have a bit to say, plus he’s Maori.

      Goff also, IMHO, needs to be seen to hang out and get the odd photo op with some genuinely cool people and the odd babe even, even if it’s a staged long lense paparazzi style. Grimey styles is where it’s at.

      heh…captcha : networks
      • gingercrush 21.1.1

        20 April 2010 at 11:29 pm

        Don’t Labour already have that in Shane Jones? Frankly, I think it makes Labour look desperate. Its the same dog-whistling crap many here accuse National of doing. Yet when Labour and Shane Jones or Phil Goff in that one speech do it, you reap praise on it. But while it sounds reasonably good. Its basically dog-whistling to racists. Even if you lot deny it.

        Also I’m not so sure Labour needs to go on the attack. Much better to be subtle and as we’ve seen attacks on National don’t actually work. Its why when you lot talk about the smile and waving John Key that does nothing might make most of you feel good about yourselves. The shit isn’t working with everyday people.They don’t want a bunch of negative people that just appear to be moaning.

        Thus where I think Goff is going is he realises attacks on National and John Key aren’t going to work. Going negative isn’t working (you lot may run down this government all you want and think how fabulous most of the posts here are that attack National policies, actions etc.but they’re well not working). Thus the only thing left is to appeal to those low and middle income earners who do struggle day-to-day and who for some of them don’t see National delivering policy that will lift their incomes, that will bring them jobs. They’re the people for whom policies around education and health (Labour strong-points) are important. Who aren’t going to get excited about tax cuts because their incomes mean they don’t benefit that much from them. Many of them didn’t vote in 2008 and they won’t vote the Greens, they certainly won’t vote National. They’ll vote Labour on occasions but they’re hard people to get out and vote. Because more often than not they’re not inspired to go out and vote. (though one reason I think such people did go out and vote in 2005 is that Don Brash really scared them and thus they saw voting Labour as a way to stop Brash. So in that sense Goff has a real struggle to get them out to vote)

        Labour have that line of attack already. Its that National is government for the few and not the majority. I see the failure for Labour is that they’re targeting it too much towards National rather than showing how they can deliver on such a thing. Gobsmacked Labour don’t need policy as such but they need to signal where they’re going. When that message is currently blurred and too in-frequent then they have a problem. But a Labour government that has a strong message and in time strong policies towards low and middle income earners. That should appeal to low and middle income earners in urban areas and will in time win support in numerous provincial towns etc. Will it mean Labour wins or can govern in 2011. Highly unlikely but then as Gobsmacked points out one-term governments are rare occurences (wtf is firefox saying that’s spelled wrong?) but it certainly makes 2014 more achievable.

        At least what we do know despite how many of you will disagree with it. Constant attacks on John Key don’t work. So why keep doing the same thing when it doesn’t work?
22. Anne 22

    20 April 2010 at 9:58 pm

    @ Jim Nald.
    Back in his university days Phil was a snappy dresser if a bit hippie. He’s gone to the other extreme. Would someone please tell him not to wear a pink tie. It may look okay on Key(?) but it doesn’t suit Goff.

    Thanks for the Herald link Draco, it puts a different complexion on the story!
23. Jenny 23

    20 April 2010 at 10:39 pm

    Goff admires Key, he will retain the GST increase. At least he’s honest about it.

    Marty spins this for the faithful –

    http://www.thestandard.org.nz/since-when-did-telling-the-truth-become-a-mistake/
    • Jenny 23.1

      21 April 2010 at 8:05 am

      The same sort of honesty was shown by Goff’s mentor, Roger Douglas, who for years, long before he was given a cabinet post openly used to espouse his policies at Labour Party meetings. He was always howled down of course, but this didn’t stop him rising to the top.

      You gotta wonder.
24. Hamish Deam 24

    20 April 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Thing’s are looking bad when the “leader” of Labour is praising John Key.

    This must be the first time in a year or so that when Goff’s said something, I’ve not rolled around laughing. The clueless man can’t even work out if he will undo a rise to GST. Clueless.

    Poor Phil.
    • gobsmacked 24.1

      20 April 2010 at 10:53 pm

      So you want Labour’s GST policy 18 months before the election.

      OK, when National were in opposition, when did they announce their GST policy?

      And what was it?
      • Sam 24.1.1

        21 April 2010 at 12:35 am

        Fucking owned. Nice, Gobsmacked.

        [lprent: Claiming ‘owned’, ‘pwned’, or any of the other variants is one of my pet dislikes. It usually starts idiotic flame wars. Go and read the policy to find out what I do about flame starters. Don’t do it. ]
        • Sam 24.1.1.1

          21 April 2010 at 8:36 am

          Apologies – couldn’t resist such commending a beautiful reply.
          • TightyRighty 24.1.1.1.1

            21 April 2010 at 9:06 am

            Whats beautiful about it? it’s the same line that’s been trotted out to exsplain Phil’s bob each way remark. if you find that beautiful, i’d hate to see what you would settle for.
            • Sam 24.1.1.1.1.1

              21 April 2010 at 12:22 pm

              Forgetting when JK ruled out a rise in GST before the election already are we?
              • Daveosaurus …

                21 April 2010 at 6:31 pm

                No doubt he only ruled out a rise in GST in Australia…
25. Jim Nald 25

    20 April 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Re Nats’ GST hike
    Goff: ” I’ll do my darndest … whatever it takes as much as Labour can to undo the damage caused by the GST hike” ?

    @ Anne:
    That black suit may maketh the Minister of Foreign Affairs
    But there can be too much of that
    Save it for the formal occasions
    Put on a Rodd & Gunn, an Icebreaker … find something NZ to wear to champion
    Lose the tie or get a roundneck or v-neck … something different …

    But please don’t go down the path of Tony Abbott’s budgie smugglers being thrust on people’s eyes !
26. gingercrush 26

    20 April 2010 at 11:00 pm

    I thought it was interesting. Goff is being a realist. Perhaps too real for politics sake. But something the left needs to understand and that Goff is understanding is that your cause will get no where if you continue attacking John Key the way this site, other left-wing blogs, commentators, columnists do. It just looks petty and stupid. Clearly, Labour needs to do other things than simply go on the attack with John Key that just isn’t working.

    Well at least that’s how I read the situation.
27. Jim Nald 27

    20 April 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Question: But Goff, wasn’t it a Labour Govt that previously raised GST?

    Goff: “Times have changed. We are talking here and now. Now is not the time … not now, not GST hike. GST hike is not the change we want now.”
28. Ianmac 28

    20 April 2010 at 11:13 pm

    I missed all the fuss until I read all the comments in this post. Very interesting. I saw nothing wrong with the Goff comments. Wondered if it could be an interesting strategy change. Still think so. Might be biased of course.
    It was the”political” reporters comments that baffled me. 2+2=3?
    Tomorrow Question time should be interesting.
29. ak 29

    20 April 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Good move by Goffy: newsworthily unpredictable and refreshingly non-boring, while greasing the slippery “no practical effect/all things to all people” slope that is being increasingly recognised – you could see it’s effect in Smiley’s worried eyes. With the bonus of the reporter’s blatant misrepresentation highlighting the ineptitude of the msm. Keep this up and the next preferred PM poll will tell.
30. tsmithfield 30

    21 April 2010 at 6:35 am

    Perhaps this is paving the way for the “grand coalition”. Soon we might be having both National and Labour singing Kumbaya around the campfire.
    • lprent 30.1

      21 April 2010 at 8:03 am

      That would seem like a fast way to lose votes for both parties. It would certainly shift my vote.
31. Herodotus 31

    21 April 2010 at 8:09 am

    How can Lab re connect witht he people, when senior Lab (Depudy Leader) memebers then argue that it is OK to spend our taxes of Interest Free Student loans of someone who “hopped of the boat” yesterday. I think we all agree that there is abundant valid opportunities to “invest” our tax spend, yet some idiot mentions No this is not on, when in welfare etc there is a 2 year wait.
    There is some sillyness comming out of Lab and being reported, and poeple wonder why Lab has ths disconnect, personnel I think that too many have been removed in Wellingtonfar too long and really do not understand real voting people. Phil appears a very nice guy but he just doesnt have it, for no real reason it just doesnt work, and this is another example with a new angle that has allowed his comments to be taken differently that how is was said.
32. Living the Dream!! 32

    21 April 2010 at 8:53 am

    This is a chess game.
    Move and counter move.
    Smile and Wave seeks anything for a photo op.
    The media fall and fawn all over him.
    The people are not thinking critically.
    The teflon is holding up.
    Going out hard and fast in this environment will not work.
    Play the long game.
33. Jim Nald 33

    21 April 2010 at 9:14 am

    A teflon pan, I had
    At first unstuck it was, the pumpkin
    I cooked and cooked
    In no time, became it stuck
    Death of the pan by a thousand scratches

    Dear Goff & the Left
    “There is a tide in the affairs of men
    Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune”
    In time, the political tide
    Shall go out for the present Government
    And will come in for you

    😉
34. Tigger 34

    21 April 2010 at 9:31 am

    Bashing Key has not beeen working. It has been a massive failure. So I heartily approve of taking some different approaches. To me, this is the start of something which can undermine Key.

    Key is as an operator, someone who might be good at playing games but who isn’t a Prime Minister. Once Goff separates those two ideas in the public’s mind, he will gain traction.
35. Jim Nald 35

    21 April 2010 at 9:45 am

    There will have to be a few tactics rolled out
    staggered or in sequence
    considered responses and ‘off-the-cuff’ reactions
    over the next few months
    as the Goff 2011 campaign takes shape
36. Kirbya 36

    21 April 2010 at 11:23 am

    Actually, I’m pretty sure Tucker is more likely to be working for Key given recent news coverage, if you’ll allow me to paraphrase:

    “Tomorrow from broadsheets to wank rags I want pages one, two and three to be a profile of [John] looking like a fucking political colossus, you know [John] meeting [Obama], [John] in a [public school] chatting to little, [underpriveledged] kiddies. I want pages four and five to be a timeline of [New Zealand] politics with me at the center, looking fucking indispensable and fucking benign, and I want page six to be fucking [Eyjafjallajokull] or some bullshit, not a fucking [NACT] deepshit legacy-distracting cockup!’
37. randal 37

    21 April 2010 at 12:08 pm

    now for the one party state.
38. iliveinauck 38

    21 April 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Goff is just giving key rope to hang himself later with,i bet key had a big head last night,he thinks hes so cool…
    but it looks like kiwis are not far from turning on the nact party
    then Goff will go hard
    hide will get arrested and top himself
    key will get a job at the UN
    and Winston Peters will become leader of the maori party
39. Evidence-Based Practice 39

    21 April 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I predict that Key will eventually join the Greens as he realises they have the wisest and most popular policies to cope with the effects of climate change, peak oil etc.
40. Zaphod Beeblebrox 40

    21 April 2010 at 1:20 pm

    I thought it was a pretty good put down. At the same time he’s branding Key in the David Cameron mould, a bit like the Anna Kournikova of politics.
41. Ianmac 41

    21 April 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Jim:
    “A teflon pan, I had
    At first unstuck it was, the pumpkin
    I cooked and cooked
    In no time, became it stuck
    Death of the pan by a thousand scratches

    Very clever Jim. 🙂
42. Jim Nald 42

    21 April 2010 at 5:20 pm

    hehe, fanks ianmac

    smile & wave is useful to generate one thing:

    ‘death pan’ humour

Links to post

1. Another reason I’d make a terrible strategic advisor « The Dim-Post: posted on 21 April 2010 at 6:04 am

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