Congratulations Hone Harawira, MP for Te Tai Tokerau

Written By: - Date published: 8:21 pm, June 25th, 2011 - 165 comments
Categories: by-election, hone harawira, mana, Maori seats - Tags:

Hone Harawira has won the by-election for Te Tai Tokerau, despite the best efforts of the msm, John Key’s endorsement of Kelvin Davis, dirty tricks from the Maori Party, and despite Labour’s typically ill-considered, hamfisted attempts to wipe out Mana at its first election.

At last we have a glimmer of genuinely left-wing representation in Parliament – led by a politician with the guts and skill to start denting the Government. After nearly three years of Labour demonstrating just how ineffectual it’s become, and the Greens becoming more bourgeois and fake with the passing of each season, it’s edifying to know there will now be a left wing political leader in Parliament.

Congratulations Hone – the best man won.

165 comments on “Congratulations Hone Harawira, MP for Te Tai Tokerau”

  1. Anne 1

    Hone’s had a big fright. I hope he learns from it. Congratulations to Kelvin Davis for running a damm good campaign. He will be rewarded in time.

    • Jim Nald 1.1

      Congrats to Hone and Kelvin.
      TTT would be a good northern bastion for the left.
      What should ACT do?
      Reconsider their Epsom candidate and phone KKK & Key?

    • Hanswurst 1.2

      Yes, Harawira probably has had a big fright. However, in terms of actual electoral outcomes, as opposed to how easily Harawira can sleep at night, the mere fact that he has won unambiguously makes a big difference.

      Much of the vote that went to the Maori Party this time may well defect to him now that it is clear that the MP has no chance in that electorate, as may much of the Labour vote, seeing as Harawira appears to be entrenched.

      Certainly, it will mean that Mana can be a credible force immediately, at least in the Maori electorates.

      • the sprout 1.2.1

        Much of the vote that went to the Maori Party this time may well defect to him now that it is clear that the MP has no chance in that electorate, as may much of the Labour vote, seeing as Harawira appears to be entrenched.

        Harawira’s majority will increase in the general election for those reasons and because Davis won’t get the same party support and msm coverage as he did this time

        • Frank Macskasy 1.2.1.1

          Congratulations Hone – the best man won.

          Or, just as likely, Maori realised that by voting for Hone, they could have TWO MPs (Harawira and Davis), instead of just one.

          One vote, two MPs.

          Canny bunch, those Te Tai Tokerau folk.

        • lprent 1.2.1.2

          Yeah, I really need to have a bit of a think about the Maori seats and those big mostly rural seats. There has to be a better way to use resources.

    • Liberty 1.3

      Labour lost big time
      Hone is a racist git
      Labour had the best candidate
      Labour had more resources
      The Maori seats were hard core labour seats for donkey years.
      If labour can’t win a Maori seat how does it expect to win a marginal
      seat ?
      Labour is doomed.

  2. weka 2

    Yep, congrats to Harawira and Mana.
     
    Looking forward to seeing some analysis of the results.

  3. Salsy 3

    Really great result. Good for Maori, good for the left in general. Bad for mNACT

  4. Anthony 4

    Pretty good result for a small grass roots party up against one of the big ones.

  5. Chess Player 5

    Am looking forward to everyone in Northland being employed by Xmas, like you promised on Radio Live the other day, Hone. You have the mandate now, albeit 90% less mandate than you used to have…

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      Exactly how much Budget is the mNACT Government giving Hone for the direct employment programme in Northland again?

      • Chess Player 5.1.1

        None, I would expect, and nor will they ever, which is why it was so completely ridiculous of him to promise that….but I guess he managed to find around 5,500 people dumber than he is…

        • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1

          5,500 people who know the Government could provide direct employment in Northland if it wished too.

          After all, it does for their NACT mates.

          • Chess Player 5.1.1.1.1

            How exactly? Last time I looked, political persuasion wasn’t a valid criteria for employment.

            • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1.1.1

              http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/06/24/of-troughs-and-trotters/

              McCully wasn’t aware of the details, he said, but knew Finny had the requisite skills. There are lots more questions to ask here – like, at what threshold does a requirement to tender kick in, etc., etc. McCully had given another gift to one of his mates.

              Add that to: $75k contract to former Nat MP, Mark Blumsky for development work in Niue (requisite skills – the man used to be a shoe salesman?)

              It seems that the answer is through nepotism and corruption.

  6. millsy 6

    Good effort by Hone, but I see him as Maori first and left/socialist (a distant) second. Which is all good, but he needs to come out and be honest about that.

    The Mana Party have a strong Tino Rangatiratanga tinge to their policies and because of that will not reach the level of support that parties such as the Alliance had in their heyday. Policies such as Whanau Ora and whether to deliver the National Park system into the hands of iwi will be major areas of contention in Mana, given that public ownership and the welfare state are two key planks of left policy and the abject aim of the tino rangatiratanga movement is to dilute them.

    Mana has a future, but as a Maori focused party. The left is better off in a mass movement such as the Alliance.

    • Adele 6.1

      Teenaa koe, Millsy

      Your views represent why Māori will always be second class citizens under a
      Pākehā worldview.

      Tino Rangatiratanga is not some protest song with a reggae beat. It has whakapapa to a Treaty. Honouring the Treaty is what Māori want from both the left and the right.

      • millsy 6.1.1

        The concepts in the Treaty (ie the guarantee of Maori control over resources, etc) is incompatible with the concept of social democracy/democratic socialism.

        It essentially concentrates wealth in the hands of a few. As the treaty settlement process has shown us.

        • North 6.1.1.1

          So the present John Key (and Ph’Goff) set-up doesn’t concentrate wealth in the hands of a few Millsy ?

          I reckon this result has brought out your essentialness Millsy – call yourself Left or whatever you wanna………you’re just a white-settler racist at heart !

          Eat it……..eat it hard !

          • Bill 6.1.1.1.1

            Good to have a party that concentrates the left -wings arse holes.

            [lprent: We already have a Bill handle in use. Please use a handle that is different. ]

      • North 6.1.2

        Hey Adele……..been waiting for your post taku hoa.

        Always thought the Left housed the more intelligent, humane, considered, the unprejudiced, the good people. That’s why I’ve voted Labour for 40 years.

        Must say, while many contributors to The Standard claim to be SO clever and SO developed and all of the above, I guess unwittingly they expose an essential subliminal racism, an insistence on docile Maori assimilation. To be performed with a demure and sufficiently respectful tugging of the Maori forelock.

        Abusive otherwise, as seen in all this visceral Hone-Hate – the latest over the word “bullshit”……..excuse me ???

        In my delight about the result I may run to drama but sometimes here on The Standard I’ve felt like it was only you and me Adele.

        Just so the “impeccable” Left doesn’t imagine these are the mouthings of the Anti-Christ – my CV – Pakeha, 60, pursuing a traditionally conservative and timorous professional calling in the North. Fabulously however, and lucky for me, none of the pathologically arrogant, dismissive, know-it-all, Pakeha perspective which disallows the legitimacy of a different and indeed multi-faceted Maori perspective.

        It’s a great night. You enjoy. I am.

        • Roflcopter 6.1.2.1

          Ah so you’re just a white mofo who thinks by virtue of location it gives you some kind of insight and maori-ness.

          Thanks for clearing that up…. dickhead.

          • Adele 6.1.2.1.1

            Teenaa koe, Roflcopter

            Mofo is a perjorative term to describe ignorant Pākehā. There is nothing remotely motherfuckerish about North. His analysis of the Māori body politic is excellent. And he is not the only one – there are others that contribute to this site that also make a worthy contribution to the Māori perspective.

            I am thinking to print a few mofo t-shirts, would you like one?

    • Lanthanide 6.2

      “Good effort by Hone, but I see him as Maori first and left/socialist (a distant) second. Which is all good, but he needs to come out and be honest about that.”

      And yet he managed to snag Minto and Bradford into his merry band. This by itself puts paid to anyone saying Mana is only for Maori.

      • Chess Player 6.2.1

        Minto and Bradford have time on their hands and are both desperate for attention. If anyone else would have them, they wouldn’t be wasting time with the Harawira party.

        • North 6.2.1.1

          And you’re an arrogant sore loser Cheese Player. If you’re Left the Left is all Redneck Shit

          [lprent: he isn’t – he mostly comments from the right. You get all sorts here. Just use search to look up their previous comments. ]

      • millsy 6.2.2

        Minto is on record as being a strong supporter of the tino rangatiratanga movement, and would sign up with anyone if he thought he could achieve his revolutionary aims.

        Bradford (plus McCarten) probably should really have the brains to know better. Especially given that both of them are strong supporters of the social wefare system (that includes our universal health and education systems). The tino rangatiratanga movement is incompatiable with the values of the left movement as a whole. Why these idiot Trotskyites and Workers Party losers with to sign up to Maori seperatism is beyond me.

        • fatty 6.2.2.1

          Maori separatism…yawn. Try again millsy, simplistic scaremongering doesn’t work here, this isn’t radio live

          • millsy 6.2.2.1.1

            Scaremongering.

            I would hardly call the transfer of hundreds of billions of dollars worth of land and assets into private hands over the past 15 years (called ‘Treaty settlements’) to be scaremongering.

            The treaty settlement process is the biggest privatisation program in history, and the sooner that the left divorces itself from the tino rangatiratanga movement, the better.

            • dave brown 6.2.2.1.1.1

              Millsy you are obviously pissed by Hone winning cause it upsets your white settler superiority. Colonisation was the privatisation. Treaty settlement puts a tiny fraction back into iwi ownership. You could argue that that is a form of private shareholding or collective ownership, but whatever its not an actual privatisation, nor is it more than a drop of piss in the empty bucket that won’t sustain Maori. For that end there is a much bigger scare coming your way and its called workers’ expropriation of private property. Now that’s really something to worry about cause it will mean that the majority of non-Maori don’t share your racist views and the working class is united against the white settler regime.

              • millsy

                Hi Dave,

                I am not racist. I am anti privatisation. The iwi elite have amassed huge amounts of wealth, due to the fact that governments on both sides of the House have handed it to them on a plate.

                • Hanswurst

                  The catalyst for Harawira’s split from the Maori Party seems to have been his belief that the settlements in themselves aren’t enough. He is obviously in favour of compensation to iwi via treaty settlements, and in favour of Maori tribal structures regulating their own affairs and dealing with the money as they see fit. He would also appear, however, to be in favour of employment, welfare and educational conditions that benefit the less privileged in society. The fact that this probably stems from his experience that the disadvantaged are disproportionately Maori does not make his outlook any less left-wing.

                  Of course there are elements of Maori who want to run their tribes as a business – there are right and left-wing Maori, too – and of course those will be the groups who are favoured by potential business partners and by the government, because that fits best with the model on which the rest of the economy is run. Harawira would not appear to be part of that camp, however, and linking him to that ideology simply because he is a Maori activist is somewhat akin to linking Sue Bradford to the policies of Key’s government because she happens to be white.

                • North

                  Now Millsy, I saw you manfully offering up congratulations to Hone somewhere an hour or so ago………don’t let those sour gwapes bile-up inside you mate.

                  Losec used to cost 3 bucks from the doc……..28 now direct form the chemist. Hone’s cost you sleep clearly………don’t let the bugger cost you bucks as well !

              • National Parks going as iwi settlements is not privatisation. Its a shift from the collective ownership of the bourgeois state that represents private property to the collective ownership of an iwi. Its a myth to say that state ownership of property in capitalist society belongs to the people. Nationalisation means ownership by the collective capitalist in the interest of the capitalists. That’s why bourgeois states in a crisis situation bail out bosses and not workers. Capitalists nationalise land and corporations to rescue them and run them for the benefit of all capitalists, then sell them off again to individual capitalists when they are profitable. But the form of ownership doesnt change.
                Even if you say that iwi ownership of Treat Settlements is a form of private property its no more than a shift from one form of private property to another. That is not a privatisation. Its even clearer in the case of Whanau Ora where the iwi contracts a service to the state. No privatisation. That’s why I think you are racist because you accuse Maori of privatisation rather than attack capitalists and argue for socialisation.
                The confusion over state ownership arises because most people take the state at face value as representing the people, when in reality the state manages the working class on behalf of the ruling class, reproducing it via education, welfare, labour law etc policing it when it breaks the law etc etc. If the present global situation tells us anything it is that the state is the ‘managing committee of the ruling class’. Instead of attacking Maori for ripping off a tiny fraction of property when they are not, why not attack the real enemy, the global capitalist class for ripping off the whole working class?

        • the sprout 6.2.2.2

          is beyond me

          clearly.

    • Deadly_NZ 6.3

      Congratulations to Hone for his win. But rather than join the policy argument, there is one thing that has me a little puzzled and that is the complete and utter disinterest in the by election by the electorate. What was it 2/3rd did’nt come out to vote, why?. The same question could be asked of the last By election (Pansy Wong) why did’nt so many people bother to come out and vote?? and are they the last elections undecided that voted National, and are now saying oh fuck that we’ll never vote for them again, or it puts them off voting all together and there are enough to make`a difference.

    • kia manawanui 6.4

      If we have a look at this whole saga. It was the whiteman from UK started all this. it is known in history, on this matter every TRUE King Must have first territory of his own to rule. The UK kIng had this. Aftere that this is not enough for him, so what he dose, is his first of appointment is to extend his rule of territory don’t matter where in the world this may happen, every King has that brain wave of authority & control. When he extends his rule he also intends to take over by colonising that territory with nothing else but his will, his character and culture. In this case, Maori boy what you have is no good and i need to replace it. Out Maori and i want your land. Fisrt thing he attacks is language then inrpint his culture and his will. The dirty King dose not do this work himself, he sends across his little yes man called the governor. We as maori gets sucked into all this crap from day one. Do we have a Maori Governor or did we have one????. to replace previous. What was his Name I can’t remember???. i don’t think i would want to.

      Now the signing of the treaty what was this all about??. I’ll tell you? “TAKE OVER” completely. Understand the mind of the King. It was a begining to complete his task Take over . Don’t be fooled by this treaty thingy, it was not to MAHI TAHI that was not in the mind of the KING or any KING. Nothing has changed and never will . Not in the mind of any true king anyway..

      By the way do we still have the Royal Navy or the Royal Arm forces. ROYAL, ROYAL or LOYAL to protect us maori.?? We may get a bit of help at last from the Taitokerau. He don’t have a royal army but he may have a loyal force.LOYALTY FOR AOTEAROA. mo nga tangata katoa.

  7. North 7

    Sprout, your first paragraph should be etched in stone and your third paragraph says it all !

    No, it’s your third paragraph should be etched in stone ! Your first paragraph establishes what a massive job has been done by Hone and Mana.

    Oh Boy, dying to hear from Millsy, Draco Te Bastard, Brett Dale, and a number of other insufferably arrogant, 100% pakeha perspective wahanui. To say nothing of the “startled Edwardian dowager” Ken Mair.

    Kia Ora Whanau !

  8. kaipara pete 8

    Mana 1, Labour 0

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Or strictly speaking, Labour 42, Mana 1 🙂

      • North 8.1.1

        Yes, strictly speaking, since it is unlawful for 1 candidate to hold more than 1 parliamentary seat.

        Goliath’s looking a little reduced wouldn’t you say…….?

        You see Ph’Goff in all his wan-ness at LP gathering at Kawakawa RSA when Kelvin (being the good fulla he is) conceded to his whanaunga Hone ?

        Still, I guess Kelvin says to himself – “Oh well, I’m back on the plane on Monday anyway…….”

        Ph’Goff would probably be rather more troubled given his ridiculous, cheaply gratuitous appeal to the Hone-Haters of middle and redneck New Zealand, seemingly his constituency – “Labour will not work with………”

        Never say never !

    • Kaplan 8.2

      Mana 1, National -1

  9. Taruke 9

    Congratulations Hone, Hilda and family for your determination and strength in the face of a concerted, collective, and aggressive attempt by mainstream political parties (and some media) to eliminate you from the political landscape. You have a clear mandate from your people, and its time to build. Hoea te waka, Hoea, Hoea ki uta!

  10. IrishBill 10

    Bloody good stuff.

  11. today is a great victory for Maori and a great victory for the working class. Mana wins on 48%, against all the might of the Labour party “machine”, backed by National, the NZ Herald, Guy Espiner, Duncan Garner, Winston Peters and NZ First, the Business Roundtable, Iwi leaders forum and the Maori Party. Now we’re going nationwide. The Revolution has begun.

    • the sprout 11.1

      yes, predictable but still amusing to see Labour trying to paint it as a victory for (temporarily) reducing Hone’s margin.

      another way of looking at it is that despite going all-out and having all that backing, Labour still lost.

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1

        another way of looking at it is that despite going all-out and having all that backing, Labour still lost.

        Steady on, TTT was a very safe Mp / Hone seat. And safe seats are not taken overnight. LAB was in the running and remain in the running.

        I notice the NZ Herald is still on its anti-Hone rampage with dodgy figures, they make it sound like Hone’s majority has collapsed by 85% and don’t mention lower turn out because it is a by-election.

        Hone Harawira has kept his Te Tai Tokerau seat after quitting the Maori Party to form Mana but Labour’s Kelvin Davis has slashed his majority in today’s byelection.

        With 100 per cent of the vote counted, Mr Harawira’s majority is now 867, compared with 6308 majority in the 2008 byelection.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10734477

    • North 11.2

      Hey slow down Joe………I’m with you of course but at my age a bloke can only take so much future shock………gimme some time to behave so as to deserve an alcoholic hangover………and then some more time to get over it.

      Great plan though !

      cc. Brett Dale…….drinking a bitter potion right now I’ll venture……..it’s called Hone Hooch !!!!

  12. R 12

    left 1, else 0. Quel relief. Thank the gods, and go Mana.

  13. TightyRighty 13

    Congratulations to Hone indeed. Given the ability of the party organizations ranged against him, if not the candidates, this indeed shows the respect in which he is held by the electorate. While I don’t agree that the best candidate won, I do believe the victory is more than symbolic, especially given the low turnout.

    I don’t think anything meaningful for the general election can be extrapolated from the result with such a low turnout, apart from leveling the playing field for the mana party.

    • ak 13.1

      Well of course you’d “think” that, Tightarse, because your every utterance has long since defined you as a psychologically trapped and relentless spintosser for the selfish and greedy. No offence brother, but you’re almost the personification of a manic righty parody.

      But here, dear Tighty, is what your current plastic mouthpiece will be thinking: “SHIT!”

      Because he’s less blinkered, and more venal, than yourself. He knows his numbers: and feels fully the chill wind of reliance on an increasingly febrile and desperate bought media.

      Maori and he Left are charging the letterboxes and the interweb: your monopoly, Colonel Blimp, is on the wane. And with it, your final, bullying, assault on Progression.

  14. Irascible 14

    Congratulations TTT on electing yet another conservative reactionary to Parliament. It is a pity that the democratic socialist didn’t win. Instead the electorate has voted for further isolation from the mainstream of New Zealand although the result has probably shaken the Maori Party to its core with the message that its prolonged intercourse with the Key-led NACTional party has damaged its credibility and sustainability beyond November this year.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      It is a pity that the democratic socialist didn’t win.

      ? Which candidate was it who supports democratic socialism in NZ?

      • Irascible 14.1.1

        It definitely isn’t or won’t be Hone or Tipene. Regardless of his fair-weather hangers on of Minto & McCarten.

  15. idlegus 15

    yep good news, its def a defeat for the right!

  16. Jenny 16

    This win by Mana makes the tactical formation of a left leaning Labour led government a real possibility. Even on current dismal poll results.

    How?

    If the Mana and the Maori Party forge a rapprochement, as Mana leader Hone Harawira has just stated is his intention, then between them they could carve up all the Maori seats.

    And possibly gain some list seats as well.

    If a deal is struck that in return for Mana not challenging the Maori Party in the seats they currently hold, then combined they could put enough MPs into parliament to hold the balance of power.

    Obviously as part of this deal for Mana to agree not to stand in the Maori Party seats, the Maori Party must accept that their future with National is over.

    For the Maori Party this would only mean for them to admit the reality of the fact, that they have no future if they stick with National.

    As Harawira has been saying and as this result confirms. If the Maori Party stick with National beyond this election they will have no future in parliament at all.

    • weka 16.1

      How do you see the MP fitting into that Jenny? In a govt with Labour, Mana, Greens? Or outside but working with Mana on Maori issues?

      • Deadly_NZ 16.1.1

        The pm with the MP is that now they are tainted by their association with the NACTS, and thats not going to be an easy thing to get away from.

    • Jenny 16.2

      Some Pakeha may resent the above scenario on the grounds that it gives Maori too much power, Maori being a minority.

      But, as Harawira is fond of saying, “What is good for Maori. is good for all New Zealanders.”

      I believe this sentiment of Harawira’s to be a truism, and that many of us on the left take to heart as ours, as well.

    • ak 16.3

      Onnit Jen. Nightmare for NACT, fillip for Lab, hopefully wakeup for Phil. Major, seminal wakeup. Prayer to St Jude.

  17. jackal 17

    Here was I thinking Hone might have split from the Maori Party a bit too late to run an effective campaign. Nice to be proven wrong.

  18. Jenny 18

    “How do you see the MP fitting into that Jenny? In a govt with Labour, Mana, Greens? Or outside but working with Mana on Maori issues?”

    Weka

    Personally Weka, I don’t care how they work it out. As long as they keep the Nacts away from the Treasury benches.

    • Jenny 18.1

      P.S. Anyway that is for them to decide, not me. That is if they do decide to work together.

      • Jenny 18.1.1

        .
        Paul Holmes: Hone, you have said that the Maori Party will have to pay a price?

        Hone Harawira: Certainly Paul, they will have to move away from the likes of Don Brash and the National Party.

        • Jenny 18.1.1.1

          .
          On “Marae Investigates” this morning, Kelvin Davis descends into bitter sectarian sniping.

          Kelvin Davis: “If we wanted comedians to be an MP we should have got Mike King”

          In my opinion this is not what voters want to see.

          • Jenny 18.1.1.1.1

            .
            Marae Investigates: Will you work with Mana?

            Pita Sharples: “We are prepared to work with anyone who approaches us.”

          • the sprout 18.1.1.1.2

            i think overall Davis has been gracious in defeat, he’s risen in my estimation

            • Jenny 18.1.1.1.2.1

              On reflection it is possible that Kelvin was just trying to be jocular, however his demeanor meant he could not quite pull it off.

  19. HC 19

    CONGRATULATIONS to Hone and the voters of Te Tai Tokerau. Yes, this is now a true mandate, although it cost half a million to get it 6 months before the national election in November.

    So I wish Hone and Mana the best of luck for the big one coming up. We can do with a bit of re-balancing and a more outspoke voice in Parliament. It has most certainly shifted too far to the right for my liking, there is NO doubt in that.

    Mana is another option available to us voters, particularly to the many so disillusioned ones that have not even bothered to vote anymore in last elections.

    This makes the upcoming elections much more interesting now, and I can’t wait to get this fading and dumb smiling assassin get thrown out of the Beehive now.

    I may not vote for Mana, but nevertheless:

    Kia Kaha Mana

  20. Jum 20

    I find it odd that people didn’t vote for Jim Anderton Progressives if they wanted more left of centre to Labour. If he had received a larger vote share we would have had decent dental health care from his previous policy.

    Kiwibank has been a huge success at keeping the foreign banks under a watching and competitive brief. That was thanks to Anderton.

    • Draco T Bastard 20.1

      The Alliance has still been there as well and their policies tend to be of the left. They did, at one point, have 13% of the vote so it can’t be that their policies are too far away from what a lot of people think.

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1

        Unfortunately, despite his considerable abilities and vision, Anderton couldn’t build a talented team that could operate as a team for very long without fragmenting into a million bits.

        • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1.1

          True, but the Alliance is still there. Not quite sure what they’re doing though – never hear of them in the MSM (Though, that’s not surprising – the MSM doesn’t seem capable of covering more than two political parties at a time) and some of their website is out of date (They still have the minimum wage stated as $11.25) and badly presented.

        • McFlock 20.1.1.2

          Actually, it was more Anderton’s habit of creating policy on the trot. Especially policy that was against Alliance policy – supporting the invasion of Afghanistan was the last straw.
          So he hung around and shafted us so we’d be below 1% for ages. But we’re still around, with good policies and a good team. And our $20k largesse from the electoral commission, of course. 🙂

      • millsy 20.1.2

        I would still vote Alliance if I knew they had a decent chance of getting in parliment.

        People forget it was the Alliance that saved a large amount of Auckland’s assetts.

        • Draco T Bastard 20.1.2.1

          Well, they won’t have a chance unless you vote for them. I mean, come on, the whole point of having different parties is so that you can vote for the party with the policies which most closely represents your own thoughts and values.

          • Colonial Viper 20.1.2.1.1

            The Alliance had an electorate seat which they could really have capitalised on. Left voters will be very nervous about wasting any votes this Nov, so unless there is more certainty I don’t think the Alliance will get too far.

    • millsy 20.2

      The progressives came across as being all about Jim Anderton (he actually officially called it “Jim Anderton’s Progressive Party”).

      The demise of the Alliance Party is one of the most lamentable episodes in our history, and both sides in that break up need to take responsibility for what happened, along with the Labour Party, and the EPMU who ensured Laila Harre came second in Waitakere.

      I think the country started its rightward drift from there on in.

      • lprent 20.2.1

        The demise of the Alliance Party is one of the most lamentable episodes in our history, and both sides in that break up need to take responsibility for what happened, along with the Labour Party, and the EPMU who ensured Laila Harre came second in Waitakere.

        As I remember it, Labour merely stood a reasonably good candidate and did their usual levels of support. In other words what they try to do in every seat (it is a bit harder in the rural electorates). As a party, we’re not given to giving any candidate from other parties a free ride and you’ll find that most active members of the party feel that way.

        In my observation, the unions generally tend to support candidates out of the union movement and Lynne Pillay was one, and Laila had done a lot of work with the unions. So I’d guess that there would have been support from various unionists for both sides in that seat.

  21. belladonna 21

    Too many are against fluoridation to support JimAnderton’s dental policies,especially in Christchurch. Shame really as Jim is a good left wing politician.

  22. Tigger 22

    I look forward to Mana’s position on gay rights.

    • Lanthanide 22.1

      Probably silence, I think.

      • Jenny 22.1.1

        Tigger 22
        26 June 2011 at 6:49 am
        I look forward to Mana’s position on gay rights.

        Reply
        Lanthanide 22.1
        26 June 2011 at 10:50 am
        Probably silence, I think.

        Lanthanide, I am sure that this is another presumption about Mana and Harawira that will be disproved.

        When has Hone been silent about any issue?

        I am also sure that as champions of the underdog, challenging the established way of doing things, support for gay rigthts will be a stated policy of Mana

  23. Carol 23

    Congratulations to Hone and Mana. I think they will provide a great impetus for left wing policies in the up-coming election and (hopefully) in a new government.

    I still will be giving my party vote to the Greens, because I need to see how Mana perform and more of their policies. I still have some questions. The main ones of these are not so much their general political position and aims, but to do with how (with what policies), and how successfully they will be in putting them into practice.

    Also, so far Mana has looked like a bit of a macho male outfit. I’m told Annette Sykes has much ….erm mana, & cred in Maori circles. But I have yet to see anything much of her in other public forums.

    Also, I’m with Tigger:

    I look forward to Mana’s position on gay rights.

    • Adele 23.1

      Teenaa kōrua, Tigger and Carol

      Being ‘gay’ was never an issue under Te Ao Māori. Only when religion arrived into Aotearoa did Māori perspectives change. Hone will absolutely support the rights of the GLBTQI in Aotearoa, because to do less would diminish Mana.

  24. just saying 24

    Absolutely congratulations!

    I’m stoked by this victory. Life is grim for the poor and oppressed in this country, but now, finally, a voice!

    I’m looking forward to helping Mana in any way I can.

    My only concern is the potential for the macho thing you mention Carol, and all it entails. However, I have confidence in the power of these particular flax-roots.

    For Hone and all the other hard workers. Tihore mai:

    ps the online version of the herald has practically obliterated this victory. You have to scroll down a long way to find any mention of it. Poor losers eh?

  25. The Voice of Reason 25

    Good on Hone for making it over the line. Much as I think it’ll all end in tears eventually, I’m happy to acknowledge the work he has put in to achieve this and I look forward to seeing how he goes over the next few months. If I can suggest a decisive factor, I’d say the Electoral Office saved his arse by registering the party two days out from the election. That official credibility makes a difference, as Hone noted himself.
     
    My guess is that Labour will take some positives out of it, too and will still look forward to winning the seat on a higher turnout. Or maybe, do a deal on the basis that they ruled out working with Hone Harawira, independant MP, but not Hone Harawira, leader of the Mana Party.
     
    The really good news is that the maori party is now deservedly stuffed. If they have more than one MP elected in November, it’ll be a miracle.

    • RedLogix 25.1

      Thanks for that VoR, nicely put and I think what you’ve said there encapsulates best how I feel at the moment.

      I’ve been struggling to see what all this means. Everyone has something to say that makes sense. Even when millsy says he’s ‘anti-privatisation, not anti-maori’ I can see where he is coming from.

      All up yes, Hone has worked hard for a win here and for the moment he’ll be basking in the deserved satisfaction of having made it over the line. Well done.

      But as you say VoR, if Hone continues with his radical lines, lines that are an offensive anathema to much of the electorate, it will end in tears. Sure, he’s saying things that need saying, but frankly the country does not want to hear them right now.

      And Labour will be unelectable if there is even a hint that they will depend on him to form a govt…. there someone has said it.

      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1

        Now, what if Mana was being led by a nice consistently polite (and perhaps quite white) gentleman who espoused clearly left principles and policies of democratic socialism.

        Would Labour still be in the dog house with the wider electorate if it became clear that Labour had to rely on Mana in the same way then?

        I’m just trying to figure out what ingredient you might consider to be the one the wider electorate finds more unacceptable at this point: the Harawiras, or clear left political economic philosophy.

        • The Voice of Reason 25.1.1.1

          I think you’ve just described the late Matiu Rata, CV, whose mana motuhaka party had many of those virtues.

        • RedLogix 25.1.1.2

          Someone at some point is going to have to come out and say precisely what they mean by ‘tino rangatiratanga’. Bear in mind I’ve been around a while. I’ve likely spent more time on various NI marae than many others here… and I’ve heard a thing or two. Some of it not very pretty at all, and utterly incompatible with social democracy as we currently think of it.

          I do get what colonisation meant to Maori; us pakeha only have to imagine the experience of say 10-20 million Chinese arriving here within a few decades to get the picture.

          And I do appreciate and admire much of the subtle strengths and differing viewpoints of the Maori world. Just this morning I’ve been reading Patricia Grace’s latest short stories; my family has close Ngati Porou connections… you can pull the racist card on me all you want… it’s a bullshit tactic that shuts down sane conversation.

          Because conversation is what this nation needs. We are not going back to pre-colonial iwi tribal life. There are lessons we can learn from our history, but we have to draw the right conclusions from them. Every culture has it’s strengths and weaknesses. God knows I’ve been as critical of the Anglo-American pakeha money/death culture as anyone here… equally the Maori world has it’s own blind spots and failings. It is only by choosing and weaving together our mutual strengths that we have any future at all.

          But if we focus ONLY on the weaknesses, if we persist in magnifying our differences, in drawing apart in purpose and spirit… it will end very, very badly. No nation can progress when it is divided against itself. The lessons we must learn from each other will only come from continuing a sane engagement, not from confrontational agitation that results only in anger and resentment.

          And that takes time, patience and good will. Maori have unquestionably given most into that pot, and most white New Zealanders don’t appreciate it. That’s pretty typical of the blind smugness you get from all majorities… but it’s a mistake to label this blindness ‘racism’, because for the most part it isn’t. Mostly it’s just unawareness and a natural uneasiness with the unknown.

          • weka 25.1.1.2.1

            “It is only by choosing and weaving together our mutual strengths that we have any future at all.”
             
            That’s true, but there’s no reason why that can’t be done by two peoples, instead of One Nation. We can choose diversity instead of divisiveness (and in my experience Maori are far better at being inclusive of both/all peoples than pakeha).
             
            I’m curious what you’ve heard about rangatiratanga and democracy that worries you. Alot of this comes down to trust. I trust Maori about the same way I trust non-Maori i.e. it comes down to who is doing what and why, and how it’s being done.
             
            But I think that it’s easy for pakeha to mistrust Maori because we’re being constantly told that Maori are x,y,z by the MSM who have a supremacist agenda (whether they’re aware of it or noT). This doesn’t mean that everything that Maori want is going to be good for non-Maori. It just means that pakeha don’t get to have everything their own way and choose to give up some things to be in equitable relationship with Maori.
             
             

            • RedLogix 25.1.1.2.1.1

              We are probably having exactly the same conversation that the Normans were having a thousand years ago after they colonised ancient Britain. You know, we’ve conquered these barbaric, backward, Anglo-Saxons and brought them all the advantages of real civilisation and they refuse to be grateful.

              I’d suggest a quick read of the relevant wikipedia page, just to refresh the memory… and yes the more things change the more they stay the same.

              Yet with time the importance of the distinction between Norman and Anglo has more or less vanished. Yes we can still trace influences from both, but the people we now know as English no longer think of themselves in these terms. (Welsh, Scot and Irish yes, but those are different concepts.)

              History is made of this kind of change. Cultures rising, falling and being subsumed into something else. Nothing is frozen forever in time… if it were we might still be leaping bulls under a Minoan sun.

              But in the modern era the process of history itself seems to have changed. Conquest brings with it not analloyed rights, but strange new responsibilities owed to the conquered. All humans have universal rights, all are equal before the law. At least in principle. The harder question is ‘which rights?’ and ‘whose law?’…

              If there was an easy answer to this, smarter people than me would have worked it out by now. I agree the hurdle is trust. Earning trust is hard and often the burden of it is unfairly distributed… but in the long-run everyone gives up everything… it is the only way we gain anything worth having.

              • weka

                I’m not sure where to start with that.

                Correct me if I’m wrong, but did you just say that Maori will be assimiliated into the dominant culture and in 1000 years it won’t matter because people won’t be thinking about it in terms of Maori and pakeha anymore?
                 
                So runs the line of the colonisers. Of course those being colonised tell a different story, and even I with my inherited privileges can see massive differences between the the Normans/Anlgo saxons and us here in little old Aotearoa. I also know that we can choose to decolonise, we still have time to do that. I doubt that there was a choice in the UK 1000 years ago.

                • RedLogix

                  Correct me if I’m wrong, but did you just say that Maori will be assimiliated into the dominant culture and in 1000 years it won’t matter because people won’t be thinking about it in terms of Maori and pakeha anymore?

                  Well yes… that is what history informs us happens. The forms of human cultural diversity are transient; in a thousand years time there will be new ones… neither Pakeha nor Maori.

                  I also know that we can choose to decolonise, we still have time to do that.

                  Umm exactly what do you mean by that? Create two separate nations? Several dozen little bantustans each ruled by an iwi? The return of all assets to Maori? The exile of all New Zealanders with non-Maori genes back to whence they came? I doubt it.. yet in failing to explain what you mean you leave a dark vacuum into which demons will rush.

                  The only sane possibility is a future in which the distinction between Maori and Pakeha becomes less important with time… because each has assimilated portions of the other and become something new. Nothing else makes sense.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    I want to know if we even know and have strength in our identity as New Zealanders. Or is that all subsumed until this discussion is compeleted?

                    What is our quality and self belief which distinguishes us from the Chinese, the Ozzies, the Americans or the Russians?

                    How does this country face the world and the other peoples of the world if we do not know these things?

                    If you look at the long histories of civilisations e.g. Persia, China, etc I have to say that RL is correct – tribal identities and cultural traits within a given region always transform and change over the period of centuries.

                    • weka

                      ” tribal identities and cultural traits within a given region always transform and change over the period of centuries.”
                       
                      Sure, who’s saying they don’t?
                       
                      What I’m saying is that the assimilation view, which let’s be honest, in this context we’re talking about Maori assimilating into the dominant culture – it’s not inevitable. We have a choice here.
                       
                      btw, NZ culture seems pretty obvious to me. But then I did all those decol type workshop things in the 80s 😉

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      which let’s be honest, in this context we’re talking about Maori assimilating into the dominant culture

                      Nope, we’re talking about all cultures assimilating into the new culture which will be an amalgam of all previous cultures. Preferably the best of those cultures but there’s no guarantee of that unless we actively choose which aspects we want which, so far, we aren’t doing. In fact we all seem to be actively trying to prevent those necessary changes from happening often by trying to “save”* a culture.

                      * You can no more prevent a culture from changing than King Canute could stop the tides.

                  • weka

                    I’m sorry you have so many demons around you. I’m also sorry that you have no way to see how two peoples can coexist peaceably and easily. Your reply and the examples therein are extraordinarly reactionary, it hurts my ears and heart.
                     
                    If you want to know how Maori desire to co-exist here with non-Maori I suggest you ask them. I would however offer a caution – you are unlikely to be met well if you approach with a one nation, ‘assimilation is the only way’ world view, and I think that view will stop you from seeing the good possibilities.
                     
                    Decolonisation is the process where we give up the idea that Maori are a subset of NZ society and that pakeha have to be in charge. There are lots of difference ways of doing this. Try googling decolonisation +nz (it’s a different use of the word decolonisation than gets used internationally).

                    • pollywog

                      If you’re still framing the argument between Maori and Pakeha, you’re failing to see the truth of what’s really happening. Maori are heading towards being assimilated into the wider Pasifika culutre again after centuries of colonial brainwashing into thinking they are a separate ‘race’.

                      Decolonisation is taking place as part of a wider mindset in Hawaií, Tahiti and all over Pasifika. As Marcus Garvey famously said, and later to be reinforced by Uncle Bob, emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind

                      It is not inconcievable that we will one day see a United States of Pasifika with a single currency, free trade and open travel that excludes mainstream NZ and Australia, as it used to be.

                      Polynization…in line with Garvey’s sentiment of taking African fundamentalism and applying it to Pasifika is happening now. Tino Rangatiratanga is about chiefs acting like chiefs instead of indians.

                      http://pollywannacracka.blogspot.com/2010/02/trick-of-treatyahhh-flag-it.html

                      chant down babylon 🙂

                    • weka

                      I think the most likely thing is that NZ will be come polynesian with a strong core of what we currently call Maori. I hope that non-Maori will hold into their own cultures within that (and no I don’t mean in a static way, it’s a given that culture changes over time).
                       
                      But that’s now what this debate was about. It was that Maori should naturally be assimilated into the dominant pakeha culture (Maori as a subset of NZ society). I don’t believe that Maori will let that happen (and they’re in a position to stop it), and I think we all have the opportunity to create something awesome here that appreciates diversity and doesn’t just follow down our predetermined colonisation pathway.

                    • pollywog

                      …that’s not what this debate was about. It was that Maori should naturally be assimilated into the dominant pakeha culture (Maori as a subset of NZ society). I don’t believe that Maori will let that happen (and they’re in a position to stop it)

                      I’d argue that it’s already happened and the only way out is to allow Maori culture and indeed all Pasifika cultures, where it has also happened, to become part of a new awareness of who we really are and how we fit, or indeed want to fit into the world at large and to reflect that in a new cultural and political paradigm.

                      Culture defines us and in turn we define the culture. It’s a choice. We can either choose to be secular Maori or Pakeha or Samoan or whatever living in NZ or we can choose to be Pasifikan by nature, living in Pasifika with Pasifikan ideal and values.

                    • weka

                      “We can either choose to be secular Maori or Pakeha or Samoan or whatever living in NZ or we can choose to be Pasifikan by nature, living in Pasifika with Pasifikan ideal and values.”
                       
                      So how does that work between Maoridom and Pasifika? In the broader Pacific region we’re a pacific nation. But are you saying that Maori have no legitimate status here as tangata whenua?

                    • pollywog

                      But are you saying that Maori have no legitimate status here as tangata whenua?

                      If ,after all treaty claims are settled and Maori unite as one people then sure, All Maori can be tangata whenua.

                      However, as long as Maori define themselves by iwi first and foremost as guaranteed by the treaty then yeah. Without naming names, some iwi can barely lay claim to tangata whenua status.

                      I mean, how does that work ? Last tribe to occupy any lands after the treaty was signed becomes tangata whenua ?…dubious claim at least, spurious at most.

                      Seriously, can you define what it is to be Maori without deferring to iwi first… No ?

                      …and therein lies the problem why the Maori party cannot solely represent the interests of Maori, nor can the Iwi Leaders Forum nor can the Mana party, which i suspect is why Hone wants a Maori Parliament. To have one body that does, can and will rep for all Maori everywhere.

            • Jum 25.1.1.2.1.2

              Weka

              I don’t like being called a non-anything. I have never blogged about whites and non-whites because it would be an insult.

              The minute I experienced on Marae Investigates that Willy Jackson and the interviewer (the one I think should take over from TV1’s Espiner because he asks a question and then waits for an answer, unlike Espiner attacking Goff) made it quite clear they want rid of Labour, which are made up of the same sort of workers as the Maori Party and the Mana Party, I knew we had started down a road none of our children are going to like because they’ll end up either spilling blood or cleaning it up. What fools New Zealanders are. National and Act and their backers will be loving this. It does begin to show, however, that Maori’s only goal is to become the new business roundtable, with rich Maori and serfs. Maori work with National because their goals are the same – divide and control, in this case one lot of workers from another, just like they are dividing and controlling women and men.

              When are you people ever going to learn; we’re being used, but here you all are playing your silly little games with colour and control. You’ve taken your eyes off the egalitarian ball with the changes everyone wants – a reasonable lifestyle where everyone mattered and everyone was treated with respect. That goal is now gone. Thanks a lot.

              • weka

                “It does begin to show, however, that Maori’s only goal is to become the new business roundtable, with rich Maori and serfs. Maori work with National because their goals are the same –”
                 
                What? Are you talking about the Maori Party there or Maori people in general? I would have thought the byelection just showed how many Maori don’t support Nact/MP.
                 
                I’m not sure why Maori are expected to be any more sensible than everyone else. Some Maori are going to chase power and money. But how is that any different or worse than people who aren’t Maori doing that?
                 

                • Draco T Bastard

                  He’s talking about people actively splitting the populace up into Maori, Non-Maori, Pakeha, Pasikan etc and that doing so is a sure course for war.

                • Jum

                  Weka,
                  “I’m not sure why Maori are expected to be any more sensible than everyone else. Some Maori are going to chase power and money. But how is that any different or worse than people who aren’t Maori doing that?”

                  You are a very intelligent ‘bird’. I saw one on my New Zealand travels – they’re gorgeous.

                  You have ‘hit the nail right on the head’. I had this conversation with Adele not long ago over humanity vs culture. She went for culture first; I went for humanity first. People are people are people in whatever language you use. Maybe I should have said Maori Party rather than Maori. But people in the Maori Party have the same good and bad as all the rest of us.

                  Many Kiwis (I like using birds – they’ve got magic and when I want us to think from inside of us that’s the word I use to describe us) wonder about the make-up of the Labour Party; all you see in Parliament are these MPs – they get called all sorts of names and all sorts of labels are attached to them. Any Maori who is struggling to achieve their goal knows about labels and name-calling; I have friends that I despair of that think teachers for example are from hell yet teachers care. You care, Weka. I care. The parties which are fighting for people over profit care. They have egos I daresay and I would happily attack any party that risks the type of country I want for my family. But the people; judge them individually. Don’t judge them in blocks and remember they really are human. I have trouble thinking of NAct in that way, but hey, I’m human!

                  The main thing Willie Jackson in this case on Marae Investigages needs to remember is that by deliberately denigrating Labour and the Left, he is endangering all of our future as an autonomous country. This present small cabal which has taken over National and which controlled Labour in the 80s is readying New Zealand for chopping and dicing.

    • Jenny 25.2


      Good on you ‘Voice of Reason’, I am glad to see that you are open to the idea of working with the Mana Party, if that is necessary to keep National out.

      It would be even better if Labour was prepared to work with Mana while both are still in the opposition.

      You never know, combined they could make some serious hits on the Nacts.

      Also I wouldn’t rule out the Maori Party as a possible coalition partner, just yet either.

  26. Chris 26

    Some home truths.

    1/ Mr Harawira said tonight’s defeat was embarassing for Labour.

    “Given they had the money for mailouts that we didn’t have, given that they were pouring tens of thousands of dollars into this to try and give themselves a win at a time when they weren’t getting any wins anywhere – this is a horrendous defeat for the Labour Party. We, Mana, didn’t have two cents to rub together, yet we beat that machine. We stopped it in its tracks.”

    2/ In an interview on the 3 News election special tonight Mr Harawira said he was keen to “arrange a sit-down” with Tariana Turia and Dr Pita Sharples to “Look at what might be a possible future for the Maori Party and Mana”.
    “Ultimately I would like to see us come back together as Mana-Maori,” he said.

  27. Colonial Viper 27

    John Armstrong: by-election a major loss for Harawira

    Apparently Hone’s 48% to 41% win over Kelvin Davis isn’t really a comprehensive mandate. Harawira therefore clearly a loser from last night’s results, now “on notice”.

    What do these people at the Herald suck down on a Saturday night???

    John Key and National may turn out to be the ultimate losers from yesterday’s unnecessary contest.

    Along with the Maori Party, Harawira is one of the immediate losers

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10734620

    • just saying 27.1

      Not to mention more than a thousand specials, the vast majority of which, will go to Mana.

    • felix 27.2

      Arrmstrong fancies his ability to read the minds of the voters:

      Their message is clear. They want something more than someone who seems to see his role as an MP purely as a lone conscience in a parliamentary den of compromise.

      They want less of playing the outsider and more supping with the devil to get some gains for his constituents.

      It’s impressive that he can read so much from the results. By contrast, I looked at the same numbers Armstrong did, and concluded that 49% of those who voted wish to be represented by Harawira and 41% by Davis.

      I obviously wasn’t squinting my left eye hard enough.

  28. North 28

    We’ve still got the Pakeha perspective wiseacres trying to spin “the demon Hone”.

    Last night there was talk about “Oh, wait for the city booths to come in……..Kelvin’ll be OK”.

    Well, have a look at the city vote figures. Hone and Mana – 38% – Kelvin and Labour – 34%.

    That augurs terribly badly for Labour. Cities was where Labour was gonna give Hone his comeupance. Where the trustworthy and sensible mainstream would be vindicated and the nation saved.

    Please, would the subliminally racist “oracles” and “spinners” on this blog get real or get off. It’s getting to the point of a real dishonesty. What you all want rather than what is. Peddled with such pomposity as well.

    • RedLogix 28.1

      What exactly do you have in mind by “get real” North?

      Because what I’m hearing from you so far is noise with the word ‘racist’ liberally shouted into the mix. Not very helpful.

      Cities was where Labour was gonna give Hone his comeupance. Where the trustworthy and sensible mainstream would be vindicated and the nation saved

      Equally you could argue that Hone got his comeuppance, after all Te Tai Tokerau was Hone’s iwi, his people who could be trusted to support their man.

      Nah.. this is the kind of talking past each other that takes us nowhere.

      • Adele 28.1.1

        Teenaa koe, Redlogix

        Te Tai Tokerau is the place – Ngā Puhi is the Iwi. There are other Iwi within Te Tai Tokerau. This is a huge victory for Māori. It tells me that Māori are finally waking up to how poorly represented they have been under both Labour and National as governments.

  29. Brett 29

    Mana = wasted vote.
    No party could work with Hone, it would be a nightmare.

    • Colonial Viper 29.1

      Hone’s clear victory shows that Mana has the momentum and the energy.

      In fact, the true wasted vote in November is the Maori Party.

      They are destined for political oblivion now. Their grass roots support is withering on the vine. National has lost a signficant coalition partner.

      • Brett 29.1.1

        To be honest, I would be surprised if National got less than 50% of the vote.
        Maori party isn’t even needed now, so it would be no great loss.
        As you know they were only included within the government because Key wanted too be seen as open minded and inclusive.

        • Lanthanide 29.1.1.1

          “To be honest, I would be surprised if National got less than 50% of the vote.”

          Seems you’re going to be surprised, then. No party has gotten more than 50% of the vote in NZ for a long long time. National would need to be consistently polling 60%+ for that to happen, and they aren’t.

          The gap will shrink considerably in the next few months, it always does.

          “As you know they were only included within the government because Key wanted too be seen as open minded and inclusive.”

          Primarily they were there so that National could pass it’s watered down emissions trading scheme, because Act wouldn’t vote for it and neither would Labour and the Greens. The MP very nearly didn’t vote for it either, but they wrangled National dropping the Maori electorate seat issue as well as repealing the F&S legislation, which is all the MP really wanted.

          Probably they also saw a potential future where Act didn’t get back into parliament, leaving them with very few friends and no chance of forming a minority government.

          • Brett 29.1.1.1.1

            The gap will shrink considerably in the next few months, it always does.

            Depends on how Hone behaves and how Goff responds.

  30. Congrats to H-ONE…now to widen the scope of representation to include the disenchanted Pasifika vote. Sure it’ll mean siphoning of more of Labour’s percieved bread and butter votes but really, the question needs asked ?

    What the fuck have you done for me lately ?

    Apart from parachuting some brown nosing oompa loompa into a safe electorate who hasn’t done shit but talk it during the Mana election (Yeah Fa’afoi I’m talking bout you), there hasn’t been a whole lot of political capital spent on Pasifika.

    If Labour thinks it can just roll out these poly wannabe a cracka candidates and expect the Pasifika vote to just unflailingly endorse them no questions asked, they could now be in for a rude shock.

    Te Mana need to party go after the brown party vote and Pasifika voters need to wise up, take a cue from Epsom and vote strategically. Labour for the candidate, Mana for the party vote.

    MANA is after all a Pasifikan word and concept not exclusive to Maori.

    • Pascal's bookie 30.1

      From your keyboard to Hone’s eyes polly. You emailing that?

      • pollywog 30.1.1

        yeah nah…he’s prolly read it by now anyway 🙂

        It’d be a fool hardy politician who didn’t lurk in the shadows of the Standard and read between the lines and besides, what i think is hardly rocket surgery.

  31. I am over the moon with Hone’s win. Absolutely awesome!!! He has my vote if he ever goes for Prime minister.

  32. Zoobaby 32

    Hi Sprout and Pollywog get a clue. Hone isn’t the best man you guys are the type of people who hold the left back. Hone talks nothing but rubbish and has done nothing for Maori or the left. Really come on the real issues in this country are jobs and the economy Hone doesn’t have a clue about any of that do yo.

    I am a left voter Hone doesn’t represent me and instead of moaning about Labour why don’t you get out from behind your key boards and talk to real Kiwis about what is important to them because its not Hone. Until you do that Labour will stay in opposition while you just sit around moaning.

    • Colonial Viper 32.1

      You still astroturfing? Seems that 48% of TTT voters disagree with you that Hone has done nothing for them. Bring on November your Money Masters Key and English will be out, and hopefully the final nail will be put into Brash’s badly conceived come back as well.

      • Zoobaby 32.1.1

        Actually given Hone’s vote fell significantly that sends a message that many of the people who voted for him last time are totally disaffected. He limped to victory hardly a resounding endorsement.

        In fact it was a fairly clear message shape-up and do a better job Hone or you will be gone at the general election.

        • Colonial Viper 32.1.1.1

          You repeating John Armstrong’s electorate mind-reading lines now? Once specials are counted its quite possible that Hone will reach 50% of the vote. He was after a mandate and he got one.

          The Mp and National’s Money Masters thought they had this year sown up and are packing it now. And that’s why we’ll see a continuing MSM and astroturfer campaign designed to run Hone down over the next few months.

          • Zoobaby 32.1.1.1.1

            Mandate I am actually laughing out loud, a few hundred votes is not a mandate. God so funny and delusional.

            • Colonial Viper 32.1.1.1.1.1

              Keep up the astroturfing mate, your Money Masters really appreciate it. Work for the crumbs from their dining table.

              Hone and Mana were tested by Labour and by the electorate of TTT, and came through. This going to complicate NACT’s calculations this year, so you have a lot of work to do.

          • lprent 32.1.1.1.2

            I think that a much higher proportion of the specials will be disallowed than usual. This is a Maori seat, and I’d bet that a lot of the specials will be for people who are actually on the general roll.

            Incidentally, I hadn’t clicked on it before, but stopping the census this year is going to have an effect on the Maori roll. The census is the only time for people to go from the general roll to the maori roll and vice versa.

            • Tiger Mountain 32.1.1.1.2.1

              Worth monitoring the specials anyway, TTT has a high special dissallowment rate from my reading of several elections on Elections NZ. People that are correctly enrolled, even right up to the deadline should have their vote counted. But those properly enrolled on the general are of course out of luck anyway in a Maori electorate.

              My partner who has done a few elections working in the booth and as a scrutineer, says a common problem is when polling booth staff dish out special declaration voting forms to people that are not correctly enrolled which results in a wasted effort and a lose/lose for the voter and electoral democracy. They often do it to save time when in a convoluted conversation with an unsure would be voter… “oh well you better have a special then”…

              The lessons are for staff to be better trained and to give more of a shit, and for political parties to hammer enrolment.

              • lprent

                I kind of read it a bit differently. If someone wants to vote then the presumption should be that they can. Sure it takes time to do specials. But I’d prefer that people feel that they can vote rather than feeling that they cannot.

                It can all be sorted at the backend where the informed information is available

  33. weka 33

     
    I am a left voter Goff doesn’t represent me and instead of moaning about Mana why don’t you get out from behind your key board and talk to real Kiwis who think a bit differently than you about what is important to them because its not Labour. Until you do that the left will stay in opposition while you just sit around moaning.

    • Draco T Bastard 33.1

      Oh, I think CV has Zoobaby nailed – he’s a far-right astroturfer trying to play himself off as a Labour voter.

      • Colonial Viper 33.1.1

        I suspect that the team in the PM’s office is going to be pondering long and hard on the potential implications of Saturday’s result, during the week.

  34. Really come on the real issues in this country are jobs and the economy Hone doesn’t have a clue about any of that do yo.

    yeah…for one, make it easier for, in Hone’s case, poor Maori from up north with good ideas to start up small businesses by tapping into gov’t resources currently being misdirected into bullshit schemes like roads of national significance.

    and work with rohe (tribal areas) based schemes that see cashed up iwi putting money into projects that benefit the wider iwi rather than just those at the top. Of course that’ll only happen for Nga Puhi and it’s whanaunga when the gov’t du jour stops dragging its feet on settling treaty claims with them.

    but if you’re gonna run the clueless jobs and economy line on me, hows about directing it to Key and English instead ‘cos they’re the ones who have the power to actually do something about it or conversely you could just shut the fuck up ?

  35. Zoobaby 35

    Really your politial argument is “just shut the fuck up” yeah you’re a real political mastermind. No wonder Hone’s vote fell and will keep on falling.

    • pollywog 35.1

      Really your politial argument is “just shut the fuck up”

      No it’s more like…

      eat a dick and shut the fuck up.

      Actually that’s pretty much the National party line too. Guess the old adage is true…

      the older one gets, the more conservative they become.

      • Zoobaby 35.1.1

        Oh dear did I upset someone by pointing out that Hone is on the verge of political oblivion and that he doesnt actually know anything that could benefit the left let alone New Zealand.

        So sad that Hone and obviously his supporters can’t even stand up to mild criticism.

        • pollywog 35.1.1.1

          Nah you aint upset me 🙂

          but the thing with Hone is, his mandate currently only applies to benefiting Maori in Te Tai Tokerau. As it stands it’s more like, fuck the left and the rest of NZ.

          What I’m saying is that if he plays his cards right, he has the potential, more than anyone, to galvanise the young and disenchanted from all over the political spectrum who have had a gutsful of the childish antics and petty pointscoring that dominates NZ politics.

          He just need to see things in a wider context than that of Maori and his beef with the Maori party. Surely even a dumbfuck like yourself can see that…yeah ?

          • Zoobaby 35.1.1.1.1

            The problem with that argument is that his entire reason for calling the by-election was nothing more than petty point scoring. He didn’t think about what the issues for the young and disaffected were he thought about how much publicity he could get for Hone and unfortunately most of the publicity he got was all wrong.

            He doesn’t represent the disaffected because he doesn’t have the ability to affect any change on their part. Hone is a has been and its at his own hand. Anyone who can wreck their ability to work with any other political party as affectively as Hone has is doomed for total obilivion politically and this weekends by-election and his seriously diminished percentage of the vote shows he is well on the way.

            • weka 35.1.1.1.1.1

              There was a 10% swing away from Harawira compared to the last election. I don’t think that is surprising given the situation.
               
              I’m curious as to how you know what Harawira thinks about. What makes you believe he wasn’t thinking about TTT youth?

            • pollywog 35.1.1.1.1.2

              The problem with that argument is…blah blah blah

              Yeah, Nah…

              Yeah… i hear what you’re saying, but Nah you got it all wrong. I could go into minute detail of how why and where you got it all twisted but to be honest you’d be better served by just eating a dick and shutting the fuck up k.

              • Zoobaby

                Oh dear back to the name calling – gosh I will just cry into my key board over those insults.

                Get a grip – political debate is robust if you aren’t up to it don’t engage in it.

                [lprent: ‘name-calling’ isn’t a sin around here. I couldn’t give a shit about it. That is part of the robust debate.

                However attempting to set the rules of debate is, so is deliberately trying to start flames, and before you do the usual stupid thing – arguing with me in moderator mode tends to be a terminal behavior. Read the policy to understand who calls the shots in this site and get some idea about how to avoid me having to look at you in the future. ]

          • Jum 35.1.1.1.2

            Pollywog,

            I agree. He does have the potential to galvanize New Zealanders in a way that has been lost – the speeches from the back of trucks instead of the carefully orchestrated places and the hate engendering policies from one side against the other. The worst of the campaigns are run by groups that favour one party – usually National – and ask for questions from the audience but only ask the ones that favour the National or Act candidate. I know. My question was not asked.

            But, as long as Harawira and most Maori for that matter see colour instead of worth he’ll be just the same as the very people he despises.

            • pollywog 35.1.1.1.2.1

              But, as long as Harawira and most Maori for that matter see colour instead of worth he’ll be just the same as the very people he despises.

              Not just Maori either, but anyone who tries to frame an argument along ‘racial’ lines. They/We now have to look beyond colour and embrace shared values, ideals and customs which resonate with wider NZ society and reflect our unique culture and heritage.

        • weka 35.1.1.2

          nah, you’re just being a troll. Harawira just won an election despite difficult odds. You just keep repeating your same old mantra with nothing to back it up other than that you want it to be true. Try engaging with the points that people are raising instead.

  36. Zoobaby 36

    Harawira did not just win a by-election despite difficult odds. He called the by-election for gods sake. How is that a difficult odd? The man put himself in that position.

    His vote fell not just because of low voter turn-out but because people many people who previsously voted for Hone this time around thought Kelvin Davis was the better candidate and they thought that because its true.

    Kelvin isn’t focussed on negativity and name calling, he believes in a better future for Maori and knows that working within and with political parties is one way to achieve it. He is a great ambassador for Maori – Hone is a poor one.

  37. I also give congratulations to Hone, after all the main thing is that he has beaten the traitorous Maori Party into 3rd place Having said that I’m just hoping that he will not spend all his time attacking Labour . Or cuddling up to the the Maori Party . Then there is the question of his mother , what influence over Honi is she going to have. Its to be hoped that Mana and Labour come to some agreement to defeat the common enemy Act/Nat/
    which now of course includes the Maori Party.

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