Convoy protest 23/2/22

135 comments on “Convoy protest 23/2/22 ”

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1. Jenny how to get there 1

   23 February 2022 at 7:40 am

   Screams as car driven at police advancing on occupation crowd

   Sophie Cornish and Henry Cooke12:06, Feb 22 2022

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300523266/screams-as-car-driven-at-police-advancing-on-occupation-crowd

   Don't ever tell me that Right Wing protesters are like Left Wing protesters….

   Generally Left wing protesters believe in science and reason the benefits of the Enlightenment.

   The Right Wing protesters at parliament reject science and reason harking back to some mystical pre-Enlightenment mysticism, of crystal healing and herbal remedies and superstition

   Don't ever tell me that Right Wing protesters are like Left Wing protesters….

   Generally Left wing protesters are peaceful and respectful of the rights of others.

   Right wing protesters are generally more violent and disrespect of the rights of others.

   Never in the history of New Zealand protest has a Left Wing protester driven a car at police lines. This is a Right Wing tactic.

   Remember Christine Clarke

   Timeline of a tragedy

   December 29, 1999: Christine Clarke falls to the road as Derek Powell drives through a picket line near the Port of Lyttelton.

   December 30, 1999: Powell charged with dangerous driving causing injury.

   December 31, 1999: Clarke dies. Powell charged with dangerous driving causing death.

   May 2001: Powell found guilty of manslaughter.

   November 2001: Court of Appeal quashes conviction, orders retrial.

   August, 2002: Powell acquitted.

   April 30, 2004: Police Complaints Authority upholds some of Powell's complaints, finds picketers and police contributed to the accident, picketers by blocking the road and police by allowing an illegal picket.

   The authority report comes 4 1/2 half years after Clarke, a mother of two, died. Her family, naturally, are devastated. More so that no one has ultimately been held responsible…..

   Remember Heather Heyer

   The Charlottesville car attack was a white supremacist terrorist attack[12] perpetrated on August 12, 2017, when James Alex Fields, Jr. deliberately drove his car into a crowd of people peacefully protesting the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, murdering one person and injuring 35.[4][13] 20-year-old Fields had previously espoused neo-Nazi and white supremacist beliefs,[7] and drove from Ohio to attend the rally.[14] He was convicted in a state court for the first-degree murder of 32-year-old Heather Heyer, eight counts of malicious wounding, and hit and run,

   Vehicle-ramming attack

   From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

   A vehicle-ramming attack is an assault in which a perpetrator deliberately rams a vehicle into a building, crowd of people,[1][2]

   Deliberate vehicle-ramming into a crowd of people is a tactic used by terrorists,[4] becoming a major terrorist tactic in the 2010s because it requires little skill to perpetrate, cars and trucks are widely available, and it has the potential to cause significant casualties.[5][6][7]
   • DukeEll 1.1

     23 February 2022 at 3:40 pm

     Right wing protestors are just like left wing protestors. You seem to be confusing the worst of the right with an idealised best of the left, which is not exactly apples with apples.

     Don't like something that much, protest about with your fellow travellers. Protestors. left, right, up down.

     As for your idea that somehow the only cars driven into crowds are by white right wingers, think again

     https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/driver-of-suv-that-plowed-into-christmas-parade-crowd-may-have-been-fleeing-crime/2690955/

     The only difference between right wing and left wing protestors is you don't see the same, old, tired, haggard faces of the right wing like you do with the left wing rent a mob, minto et al

     This false dichotomy about protests is grating. everyone can protest, you aren't a better more superior protestor if you are strictly left wing. you are just purer of conviction.
     • Jenny how to get there 1.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 6:59 pm

       Hi Dukie,

       I opened your link and read it;

       May I ask, How can, except in your fevered imagination, a drug user with a long history of criminal offending fleeing a domestic violence incident where he stabbed his partner and them mowed down innocent pedestrians with his car while fleeing, be considered to be a Left Wing protester?

       What does this say about you.

       In your mind are all criminals and murderers Left wingers?
       • DukeEll 1.1.1.1

         24 February 2022 at 8:47 am

         have you read your unhinged rants on here about right wingers since day 1 of the protest? your constant, almost maniacal impulse to paint this protest as a facist rally that we need to crush without mercy is starting to look like it needs clinical treatment
2. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2

   23 February 2022 at 8:09 am

   OMG, I couldn't be a policeman! How they put up with all the crap (both literally and vocally) thrown at them without wading in with batons, is beyond me!

   https://twitter.com/kelvin_morganNZ/status/1496052874622947329
   • Bearded Git 2.1

     23 February 2022 at 9:02 am

     I think police have this kind of interaction all the time but we don't usually see it.
     • Peter 2.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 10:16 am

       Thank you to the police. Ordinary people doing a job.

       They could all go home of course. What would happen then? The mob would invade Parliament? Then what would happen?
   • Jenny how to get there 2.2

     23 February 2022 at 11:08 am

     This softly softly approach to the Right Wing protesters laying siege to our centre of government threatening MPs and our democractc system, is not how the police treat union picketers or anti racism protesters.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waUvzw8BSak&ab_channel=1News
     • Andrew Miller 2.2.1

       23 February 2022 at 11:49 am

       Whilst I’m not arguing there wouldn’t be a difference now, you have to consider it’s 41 Years since the ‘81 tour protests.
       What we as a society find acceptable Police behaviour will have changed in the time, the Police as an organisation will have changed in that time.

       You can argue in significant ways they haven’t changed, but I don’t think it’s credible to think the Police in 2022 would reaction to a ‘left wing’ protest as they did in 1981.
       • Jenny how to get there 2.2.1.1

         23 February 2022 at 1:48 pm

         Yes it was a long time ago.

         My hope is that the police do not abandon their current conciliatory treatment of protesters because of the behaviour of these right wing protesters. And use this as an excuse to clamp down forcefully on Left protesters and unionists.
         • alwyn 2.2.1.1.1

           23 February 2022 at 6:49 pm

           You can hope all you like.

           Of course if you watch this video in the story on Stuff you are going to have a very hard job convincing yourself that the police were doing anything other than bashing one of the demonstrators. And that the demonstrator had done nothing to justify it.

           https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/127859891/protester-claims-police-punched-and-eyegouged-him-at-parliament-occupation

           Why did you bash that man Constable? "Because I can" would seem to have been the attitude.

           "“However, police have been exercising their powers fairly and professionally, and have used force proportionate and relevant to the circumstances,” a statement from an unnamed police spokesperson said."

           I'd not want to be named either if I had to justify this.
     • James Simpson 2.2.2

       23 February 2022 at 12:39 pm

       This is not a right wing protest.
       • McFlock 2.2.2.1

         23 February 2022 at 1:19 pm

         Don't tell winston that.
       • Andrew Miller 2.2.2.2

         23 February 2022 at 1:39 pm

         There’s a reason I put left wing in scare quotes as I think trying to label something like this as left wing or right wing is a fools game and ultimately meaningless.
         It’s same over whether to use the descriptor ‘Nazi’, it doesn’t add anything to our understanding.
         There’s clearly a significant bunch of people with views that you could meaningfully describe as far right and the anti vax movement obviously has links to conspiracy theorists which also has far right links.
         There’s also undoubtedly a number of people and aligned groups you could argue fall on the ‘left’.
         I largely blame social media for the fact we increasingly want to be able reduce things to simple labels, rather than actually describing the views held and get a sense of what the people actually believe.
         • Jenny how to get there 2.2.2.2.1

           23 February 2022 at 2:01 pm

           Left and Right can be delineated ,

           The Right put individual self interest above collective welfare.

           Margaret Thatcher infamously summerised the Right Wing Individualist world view, when she claimed that there was no such thing as society.

           The Left put the welfare of society (and the environment) above individual self interest.

           If you don't know if you are Left or Right

           Do you prioritise Public Health or Private Wealth?

           How you answer will determine if you are Left or Right
           • Andrew Miller 2.2.2.2.1.1

             23 February 2022 at 2:27 pm

             So, fascists and ethno nationalists put individual self interest above above the collective?
             Everyone who has campaigned for individual human rights against authoritarian communism is right wing?

             Your understanding of the political spectrum is incredibly simplistic.
             • DukeEll …

               23 February 2022 at 3:42 pm

               No, it's nuanced and complex. Left wing which jenny likes, good. anything else, bad
             • Jenny how to get there …

               23 February 2022 at 4:55 pm

               Andrew Miller at least you realise that fascists and ethno nationalists are right wing. The whole idea of a superman or superrace and social Darwinism that the superior race must eliminate the weaker all the fascist mythology, that the weak go to the wall and the strong survive. That the weak go to the wall is the message that underlies the anti-mandate protests. The old the infirm those with underlying conditions, they can all go to hell if it stops me buying my favourite latte without showing my vaccine pass.

               To answer your question:

               Everyone who has campaigned for individual human rights against authoritarian communism is Left Wing.
               • Andrew Miller …

                 23 February 2022 at 6:39 pm

                 But fascists and ethno nationalists are collectivist, human rights advocate believe in individual liberty in fact the entire premise of the UDHR is that rights rest with individual humans.

                 Your understanding of left/right – collectivist/individual lacks any understanding of the fact that there are strains of both left & right thought where the individual has primacy over the collective, strains where the reverse is true.
                 Hence why any decent attempt to gauge someone’s political views uses a grid not a line from ‘left’ to ‘right’.
                 Back to the protest, to try and place a single label on ‘the protest’ as either left wing or right is meaningless.
           • James Simpson 2.2.2.2.1.2

             23 February 2022 at 3:52 pm

             Standing up for minority rights could well fall foul of what the majority thinks is "right".

             That does not make someone a right winger.
             • Jenny how to get there …

               23 February 2022 at 4:57 pm

               Standing up for minority rights which make other people sick or even die.

               That does make someone a right winger.
       • Jenny How to get there 2.2.2.3

         24 February 2022 at 7:42 am

         James Simpson

         23 February 2022 at 12:39 pm

         This is not a right wing protest.

         The Ardern administration is not a Left Wing government…

         Act is not a Right Wing party…

         Chistopher Luxon is not a Right Wing politician….

         Winston Peters is not a Right Wing populist opportunist….

         Yeah, Right!
         • James Simpson 2.2.2.3.1

           24 February 2022 at 10:00 am

           I take it you haven't been down there and spoken to anyone?
           • Jenny how to get there 2.2.2.3.1.1

             25 February 2022 at 3:50 am

             Even if I could be bothered to drive all the way to Wellington to speak with them, I wouldn't.

             I believe in science and reason of the enlightenment, and not the superstition of healing power of crystals and yoga to overcome a viral infection.

             I believe in the proven effectiveness of vaccines a product of science and medicine to ward off disease.

             I don't believe the world's governments and scientists are conspiring to maliciously and needlessly inject us against a fictious disease as part of some evil hidden global plan for world domination.

             I believe that our government's decisions have been formed by the best expert scientific and medical advice there is.

             But mostly I have no desire to speak with the neo-nazi troglodytes, new age mystics and the various alienated misled misfits, that reportedly* make up the bulk of this protest, because I don't want to risk getting infected and sickened by their unsanitary and crazy behaviour in the midst of a pandemic

             *PS I also don’t believe our journalists are also part of this conspiracy and are lying to us.
     • DukeEll 2.2.3

       23 February 2022 at 3:41 pm

       preventing rugby watchers in wellington going about their rights to associate and watch rugby? oh noes! don't send the police in for rugby!!!!
3. ianmac 3

   23 February 2022 at 8:43 am

   On RNZ this morning Winston Peters was adamant that his not wearing a mask for his protest visit, was because masks are worthless. When he next gets surgery I suppose he will demand that surgeon and staff take off their masks?
   • Bearded Git 3.1

     23 February 2022 at 9:05 am

     Ianmac-Winston is after the 5% threshold, and in that interview he succeeded in style. Nothing else matters to him.

     He has always been a brilliantly plausible liar.
4. Adrian 4

   23 February 2022 at 8:53 am

   So why no early morning pressure this morning?
   • Incognito 4.1

     23 February 2022 at 8:57 am

     How is the popcorn?
5. Muttonbird 5

   23 February 2022 at 8:56 am

   Coster said some protest leaders were supporting police, but were struggling to effect change.

   Some were protesting legitimate issues, but a group within the mob were still causing issues, he said.

   "Those influencers are able to cause havoc around the place so the whole protest is contributing to that. While they may not be responsible for them themselves the situation is of their making and the situation as it sits is impacting the university, it's impacting public transport so we are looking to them to effect change and we are beginning to worry that they maybe [are] unable to."

   Yep. Protest organisers can't control elements within a situation of their own making so:

   Unruly protesters causing havoc a reflection on the entire group says Police Commissioner

   It is galling to have protest organisers blame the police for not controlling the violent and abusive in the protest ranks.
   • McFlock 5.1

     23 February 2022 at 1:25 pm

     I wonder which groups of "influencers" are causing the trouble?

     Who turns up to a peaceful protest and tries to agitate for violence? Can't say I don't have a couple of ideas.
     • Muttonbird 5.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 1:39 pm

       It's naive to think the violence and abuse is separate from the main thrust of the protest because the violent anti-Ardern imagery was there from day one, and in fact before day one on the convoy up, and before even that within the birthplace of this movement, Groundswell.

       A common theme runs through them all and so it's quite right to lump them all in together.
6. Adrian 6

   23 February 2022 at 8:59 am

   And another one carted away on a stretcher last night, they are a very sickly lot. How many is this now, almost 10?. A lifetime of dope, hummus and yoga is not the worlds best diet obviously.
   • Incognito 6.1

     23 February 2022 at 9:04 am

     A lifetime of dope, hummus and yoga is not the worlds best diet obviously.

     Do you work for a lifestyle magazine or a health insurer?
     • Adrian 6.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 11:28 am

       You've outed me Incognito, I'm the roving founding editor of the Steak and Rum Weakly, only finest Caribbean mind, none of that faux Australian kangaroo piss!

       I did some sums last week, the dropping by the wayside toll was then around 5 or 6 ( mostly cardiac by the reports ) if extrapolated to the country at large then it was equivilant to about 50,000 a week. Obviously, highly conditioned peak of performance athletes.
       • Robert Guyton 6.1.1.1

         23 February 2022 at 11:48 am

         Cardiac?

         Their claim is that the Pfizer jab cause "cardiac".

         Are there so secretly-vaxxed amongst them?
         • Incognito 6.1.1.1.1

           23 February 2022 at 12:05 pm

           Depends what people mean by “cardiac”, which can mean just about anything. The rare occurrence of myocarditis/pericarditis is treatable and doesn’t lead to permanent damage of the heart tissue.
   • Shanreagh 6.2

     23 February 2022 at 10:29 am

     Possibly they have the biggest co-morbidity there is and that is not being vaccinated and that may be a lifetime's worth of not being vaccinated against preventable illnesses.
7. Peter 7

   23 February 2022 at 10:23 am

   Some interesting perspectives from Kirsty Johnson. How 'ordinary' people are on board as part of the mixed mob.

   'It's like a cult': How anti-vaccine "mumfluencers" are fuelling the Parliament occupation"

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300520631/its-like-a-cult-how-antivaccine-mumfluencers-are-fuelling-the-parliament-occupation
   • ianmac 7.1

     23 February 2022 at 11:09 am

     Thanks Peter. A frightening insight to those unscrupulous "influencers" who prey on the unsuspecting "uncertains."

     And what a lot of useful investigating done by Kirsty Johnston.
     • Matiri 7.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 11:22 am

       I have seen it first hand over the past couple of years. We have a medical centre with a small aged care facility. A nurse who used to work here set up a wellness blog about her positive lifestyle changes and parenting, selling expensive supplements and 'courses', and promoting anti-vax views. She remains close friends with two of our nurses who subsequently refused to be vaccinated, she also tried to sell me supplements etc in a slightly evangelical way.
8. Reality 8

   23 February 2022 at 10:29 am

   Winston Peters has lost the plot in his desperation for attention. He thinks masks are worthless. Didn't know he was medically and scientifically qualified to make such a statement.
   • Robert Guyton 8.1

     23 February 2022 at 10:40 am

     Winston's lungs aren't ideally suited to carrying him safely through a Covid experience.
     • Poission 8.1.1

       23 February 2022 at 11:06 am

       he is agreeing with the police commissioner who effectively stated that masks and vaccination were not enough to prevent his officers contracting Covid.
       • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1

         23 February 2022 at 11:13 am

         The police commissioner though, didn't instruct his people to throw away their masks, nor that unvaccinated police be brought in to manage the throng.
         • Poission 8.1.1.1.1

           23 February 2022 at 11:28 am

           Both Winston and the Police commissioner have unscientific beliefs,Winston however is using a skin in the game experiment to test his beliefs.

           Mask mandates are the greatest defense against respiratory infection, but only when used correctly.

           Face mask performance is related to the materials used and the interaction of various shapes, sizes, and sealing surfaces with a given wearer’s face. The presence of a beard is likely to impact fit parameters for many available styles and it is worth considering limiting its length, completely shaving (if feasible), or covering beards to achieve better filtration performance.

           https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-021-00337-1

           Ya better Schick up.
           • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1.1.1

             23 February 2022 at 11:52 am

             I've followed this issue closely, Poission, naturally.

             If I was a frontline worker, I'd be bare-faced in an instant.

             As it is, Zoom is my friend.

             (Fortunately, your report says, "it is worth considering" and "is likely to", so I'm still in the game.
           • Muttonbird 8.1.1.1.1.2

             23 February 2022 at 11:53 am

             How do you use a mask correctly when some anti-vax scumbag is trying to rip it off your face?
             • Shanreagh …

               23 February 2022 at 12:10 pm

               You shouldn't be wearing a mask anyway MB dontcha know?

               1 Covid doesn't exist

               and

               2 masks give you lung cancer

               Source

               anyreputablecovidconspiracytheorywebsite

               /sarc
           • McFlock 8.1.1.1.1.3

             23 February 2022 at 1:31 pm

             There's a big difference between "worthless" and "not enough".

             The commissioner is acknowledging that some officers will still catch covid from the rabble despite masks.

             Winston is saying that masks don't reduce the chances of infection.

             One is based in scientific reality, the other is pandering to a mob.
             • Poission …

               23 February 2022 at 1:38 pm

               The commissioner is acknowledging that some officers will still catch covid from the rabble despite masks.

               How?
               • McFlock …

                 23 February 2022 at 1:50 pm

                 How will they catch it, or how is he acknowledging it?
                 • Poission …

                   23 February 2022 at 1:53 pm

                   How will they catch it?
                   • McFlock …

                     23 February 2022 at 2:11 pm

                     Because nothing is perfect.

                     Even if the masks aren't removed or improperly fitted, "N95" means "95%", not "100% guaranteed".
                   • Poission …

                     23 February 2022 at 2:58 pm

                     Try 99.6% for 1 hour in an enclosed space.In an open space say a Wellington lawn,with a high mean windflow,high relative humidity,and significant ground level UV radiation,what would you estimate the relative risk would be.

                     i) Would it be higher then say the flight into WGN to reinforce the local police,and where are large number of the passengers are unmasked?

                     ii) would it be higher then the unmasked fellow police officers at the gym after shift?

                     iii) would it be higher then having a child under 20 in the house?

                     iv) would it be higher then say having a few beers after shift at the Police canteen?
                   • McFlock …

                     23 February 2022 at 8:54 pm

                     At a garden party, maybe.

                     This ain't a garden party – heavy exercise, yelling, spit flying. Is there an infection route if you get their spit in your eyes or a scratch? That definitely applies to things like boxing and blood.

                     Don't get me started on the number of people on a given flight who claim to be in mortal peril if they wear a mask. But maybe most of the cops drove up, anyway – riot gear is a shitload of carryon. And pepper spray looks like it's in pressurised containers.

                     (at one of the Otago student riots, the cops who drove up from invercargill apparently forgot to pack it, lol)
       • Patricia Bremner 8.1.1.2

         23 February 2022 at 1:54 pm

         2m distancing a bit hard though.
   • Andrew Miller 8.2

     23 February 2022 at 12:03 pm

     I don’t think Winston has ‘lost the plot’ at all. He’s always been entirely unscrupulous and a populist happy to engage with anyone and any idea he felt would advance his access to power.
     All that’s changed is he’s increasingly unable to make enough of an appeal within normal bounds of political discourse and had to go searching even further to the fringes.
     If anything it shows that he’s probably completely washed up, as there’s not enough of a constituency for this kind of rabble rousing to get him back to Parliament but he’s realised his old plays won’t work any more.
     • Matiri 8.2.1

       23 February 2022 at 12:46 pm

       I saw Sue Grey, smugly smiling, behind Winston in one of the photos on Stuff.
9. Peter 9

   23 February 2022 at 11:05 am

   They should've done it at Christmas. The guy on about radiation weapons would've been hoot. "There are claims, only claims, and they haven't been made to me directly at this point, that Santa will be arriving at 2:37am."
   • Adrian 9.1

     23 February 2022 at 11:13 am

     There's some nutters there all right, but the real mystery is who is the American woman doing the details prompting off-camera. ? The American presense at the protest needs a bit of investigation.
   • Robert Guyton 9.2

     23 February 2022 at 11:14 am

     I hears Santa's cancelled, coz, radiation.
10. observer 10

    23 February 2022 at 11:07 am

    A slightly different way to waste your vote in 2023:

    https://twitter.com/juliefairey/status/1496196266560262144

    It's Sue Grey's lot. At the last election they got 0.1% of the vote, the same as Social Credit, both over-represented at the protest according to the Curia survey. Not mentioned was the Tamakis' party, Vision NZ (also 0.1% at the election).

    They should all learn a lesson from the Alliance 30 years ago: a range of very different parties under one collective banner, then split after entering Parliament. But these are people that can't even agree on car parking, so it won't happen.
11. Cricklewood 11

    23 February 2022 at 11:09 am

    Perhaps, if instead of turning the sprinklers on, a delegation went down, we wouldnt be where we are now…
    • Adrian 11.1

      23 February 2022 at 11:16 am

      Lawn sprinklers …phffft! Go hard and go early, it should have been fire hoses.
      • alwyn 11.1.1

        23 February 2022 at 6:54 pm

        Come on. Go all out. Say what would really work Flame throwers!
        • Incognito 11.1.1.1

          23 February 2022 at 8:42 pm

          As a general comment (aka a warning), please don’t take calls for violence too far, not even under the pretence of being ‘legit’ if/when the authorities committing it. The situation is already volatile enough as it is and we don’t need commenters egging on other commenters on this forum (aka flaming), which is read by many more than comment here.

          • Directly or indirectly advocating violence in any shape or form (including ‘jest’ and advocating self-harm) to individuals or groups is simply not allowed. Moderators will have a no-tolerance humourless response as the only possible response. If you want to talk about political conflicts around the world, then do so being mindful of this proscription.

          https://thestandard.org.nz/policy/
          • alwyn 11.1.1.1.1

            23 February 2022 at 8:48 pm

            OK. I simply didn't consider the possibility that anyone would take it seriously.

            Now I really am worried.
            • Incognito 11.1.1.1.1.1

              23 February 2022 at 9:01 pm

              You have seen the bullet point from this site’s Policy and I’ve explained why I made the comment, which was general and not personal. Consider that some people may take it more seriously than you intended. Best to avoid making ‘witty’ comments about violence in general and particularly when it relates to the protest(s).

              This comment applies to all commenters on this forum, as per the Policy, and simply serves as a reminder.

              HTH and happy commenting here, without calls for violence
    • Robert Guyton 11.2

      23 February 2022 at 11:26 am

      Perhaps, if a delegation of antivaxxers went down to Wellington with their petition, instead of copycatting the Canadians and attempting to bully the Government, we wouldn't be where we are now…
    • Andrew Miller 11.3

      23 February 2022 at 12:06 pm

      You’re probably right, but no evidence the different place we’d be would be any better or involve Parliament grounds not being a camp site and the surrounding area impacted.
    • Nic the NZer 11.4

      23 February 2022 at 12:35 pm

      Saw an appeal yesterday for the Media narrative to please go back and focus on what Trevor did. Probably a bit late for that now.

      In your opinion,

      When did the protest hit peak sympathy?

      At what stage did it jump the baby shark?
      • Cricklewood 11.4.1

        23 February 2022 at 12:57 pm

        Peak sympathy after Trevs stunts and lasting through the storm… Certainly Trevor's stunts, political reaction and media coverage were the catalyst for me to drive down last weekend. It was really good family freindly heaps of kids about. Certainly some are down deep rabbit holes.

        This week has been a shit show which has hurt, not suprising though some angry and desperate people there and no doubt we're seeing some radicalization in real time.

        But they have achieved something, I doubt anyone would be talking about ending mandates if it hadn't happened. The demographics at the protest give a good snapshot about how they have affected a big cross section of society.

        It's good to see the HRC has finally got involved, better late than never. Cant help but think if that happened in the first week alot of damage could have been avoided.
        • Andrew Miller 11.4.1.1

          23 February 2022 at 1:46 pm

          “But they have achieved something, I doubt anyone would be talking about ending mandates if it hadn't happened”

          Utter utter nonsense, nothing that’s been announced is anything that wasn’t already in the pipe line and anything reasonable people didn’t assume was likely.

          It’s always been obvious the restrictions would be reduced when there was grounds to.
          The protest has achieved nothing except make a misery of a lot of Wellingtonians trying to go about their lives.

          If the mob need to tell themselves this to justify buggering off then fine, but please don’t treat us as idiots.
          • Cricklewood 11.4.1.1.1

            23 February 2022 at 2:01 pm

            Maybe… but not one politician was talking about it, look at the change in tone from the opposition re mandates.

            As for disruption… suck it up Auckland was shutdown for weeks. It's not actually that bad.
            • Andrew Miller 11.4.1.1.1.1

              23 February 2022 at 2:20 pm

              Any disruption in Auckland was due to COVID and public policy to reduce its spread and prevent people getting seriously ill or dying.

              The disruption here including the public being threatened, intimidated and assaulted, ordinary workers stressed, schools and universities shutting their buildings, etc is due to the appalling and often criminal behaviour of the mob outside parliament.
              That you compare the two is disgusting and simply evidence that you’re a bad faith actor that no one should be taking seriously.
              • Cricklewood …

                23 February 2022 at 3:01 pm

                Sure, but when 'two classes' were created and people lost jobs, kids mandated out of activities and homes lost that the disaffected group would push back hard as desperation set in was inevitable.

                Perhaps you should direct your anger at Government who appeared to give no thought as to what would happen with those people, Police who were completely unprepared for what was coming, Media who made fun of them, the politicians instead of engaging disparaged them and last but not least the speaker who acted lime a toddler. All of which lead to the ongoing shit mess which you are moaning about.

                It's taken two weeks and violence to get to the point where positive engagement is occurring. That's the real disgrace.
                • Andrew Miller …

                  23 February 2022 at 3:32 pm

                  If only there was a way for them to have kept their jobs and continue those activities….

                  Given you make no effort to make a good faith argument against the public health measures and just make disingenuous emotional appeals that anti vaxxers should be exempt from the consequences of choice, plus

                  keep repeating the point about engaging with the mob without even trying to answer the questions around

                  What happens when engaging changes nothing in terms of public policy, and…

                  What happens when there’s a bunch of people not interested in engaging or who refuse to accept the out come of any engagement

                  …at this point you’ll little better than a troll.
                  • Cricklewood …

                    23 February 2022 at 4:38 pm

                    If you care to look back, I've made a case against widespread mandates from last year, on the basis that we would end up where we are now and that the long term harm of dealing with that is actually going to be a greater harm.
                    • Andrew Miller …

                      23 February 2022 at 5:04 pm

                      Let’s see, who’s more likely to have had access to a wide range of information to make informed decisions on the behalf of the country…

                      A Labour government or some random on the internet who still refuses to give any honest answers around when talk to the mob would bring this shit show to an end…

                      It’s a tough one.
        • Nic the NZer 11.4.1.2

          23 February 2022 at 6:56 pm

          That's probably one positive outcome. For a while yet the media offensive on vaccine mandates will be associated with the protestors. That should let the government roll them back when appropriate, rather than under media pressure to do it sooner. Especially as the protestors have pushed National and even Act to associate their position with the government (rather than its over-throw).

          If an election was held tomorrow its basically Labour vs the "Freedom to pee Outdoors Party" which is not a hard choice.
12. Joe90 12

    23 February 2022 at 11:17 am

    Oh look, even senior violent sociopaths have concerns about lost freedumbs.

    /

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300524085/senior-auckland-hells-angels-gang-member-at-wellington-protest
    • Shanreagh 12.1

      23 February 2022 at 12:05 pm

      Oh dear, we can't have that. For shame

      I'm sure 'He hAs dOnE HIs OwN rEsEArch' as they say, on Facebook for sure.
      • joe90 12.1.1

        23 February 2022 at 12:17 pm

        He was comparing notes with the SST's boy.

        Former New Zealand First MP Darroch Ball was also with Peters.

        https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/02/22/winston-peters-tours-parliament-protest-camp/

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300197863/former-nz-first-mp-darroch-ball-new-coleader-of-sensible-sentencing-trust
13. Reality 13

    23 February 2022 at 12:02 pm

    Conjure up this – Winston in his pinstripe suit, his Italian leather shoes stepping through all the sludge and mess, being up close to all those unwashed bodies – and overnight in his tent (pinstripe suit nicely folded under his mattress to keep the crease in), clean white shirt hung up for the next day, French cologne at the bedside ready for the morning grooming – guess we need a bit of a laugh sometimes.
    • Grey Area 13.1

      23 February 2022 at 5:05 pm

      Yeah brings a smile but Henry Cooke reported he wasn't going to take any risks of that happening: "But while Peters was happy to shake hands and tell the protesters that politicians shouldn't ignore them, he wouldn’t take to the stage to make a speech. Instead he walked on down to his favourite Vietnamese restaurant on Lambton Quay – just as a battalion of cops in riot gear got ready for a new push."

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300524060/convoy-protest-grim-mood-shift-at-protest-as-police-tighten-siege-net
      • Nic the NZer 13.1.1

        23 February 2022 at 6:09 pm

        I'm wondering if the restaurant is following typical framework procedures and if Winston found a mask somewhere before popping in.
14. Blade 14

    23 February 2022 at 12:43 pm

    ZB: 12.34pm

    Just heard Jacinda being interviewed by Jamie Mackay on the FARMING SHOW.

    She was at pains to point out the convention regarding the government not interfering in police operation matters. Yes, very thorough with her explanation.
    • Nic the NZer 14.1

      23 February 2022 at 12:57 pm

      Not looking good for Commissioner Hammer at all.
      • Blade 14.1.1

        23 February 2022 at 1:03 pm

        Or Commissioner Nick Woke.
        • Nic the NZer 14.1.1.1

          23 February 2022 at 2:01 pm

          I will let you know when I put my name up for the Police Commissioner role.
15. Muttonbird 15

    23 February 2022 at 2:16 pm

    Paywalled, but why aren't we doing this here? Starting with that f'wit from Red Stag.

    Canada freezes hundreds of accounts tied to protests

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/canada-freezes-hundreds-of-accounts-tied-to-protests/5ZSEAZS6NTCYO7M7GCBEOGAIXU/
    • McFlock 15.1

      23 February 2022 at 2:22 pm

      Isn't it a state of emergency over there, though?

      Here we've been trying to avoid that move. Escalates things.
    • weka 15.2

      23 February 2022 at 3:51 pm

      Paywalled, but why aren't we doing this here? Starting with that f'wit from Red Stag.

      Because that would require our centre-left government to go full authoritarian. Which would shift the overton window (think about the agency it would give Nat next time they're in), and would hand the freedom protestors a recruitment strategy.
      • Stuart Munro 15.2.1

        23 February 2022 at 8:33 pm

        Not necessarily. Banks can be invited to supply the details of funders, as they evidently did for Bradbury. They had no difficulty doing so because they believed his activities were contrary to the public interest. The case against Red Stag is stronger, and the paper trail only facilitates prosecution for acts which, if criminal, banks are not obliged to conceal. Full authoritarian would be more like a helicopter raid like that conducted at chez Dotcom.
        • weka 15.2.1.1

          23 February 2022 at 9:42 pm

          Bradbury?

          What's the history in NZ of the government freezing bank accounts of protestors?
          • Stuart Munro 15.2.1.1.1

            24 February 2022 at 5:53 am

            No idea – and it's not necessary.

            It would suffice to interdict the funding from Red Stag and any foreign provocateurs.
    • Shanreagh 15.3

      23 February 2022 at 10:19 pm

      The Canadians have the power, as I am sure we do here, for Police to apply for a warrant to the Courts to freeze or view bank accounts. This takes time. This fact was one of the main drivers for the Emergency powers to be invoked in Canada. Once they got access they froze them and so the groups/individuals ran out of money.

      The police work by the Canadians has been very smooth so far. I saw a comment on a Canadian site that this assets freezing was in fact the only power in the emergency orders that was used. The arrests and moving on were just normal policing.

      Some trucks were just left and along with the emergency declarations they now belong to the Canadian authorities who will use them for recoup some of the costs. We have had a hint of the powers here with Coster warning about moving the cars, because if they don't cooperate and the cars have to be towed then they are deemed seized and owned by the Crown.

      I am sure that our journos could be doing much more in the way of researching who is the big money bags. Verry/Red stag has said he has not funded huge amounts,

      This is where the hacking of the GiveSendGo account for the Canadian truckers is so important. The hackers ahve said they will give the info for countries to journos but not individuals.

      According to figures by country that I saw, $103,000 was donated from NZ addresses. I feel that NZers crazy enough to have donated to the Canadian trucker convoy may be crazy enough to donate to our convoy. So we could get our journos to do some fossicking around.
16. Dennis Frank 16

    23 February 2022 at 3:04 pm

    First time ever, I find myself onside with a convoy protestor.

    Peters, who is double-vaccinated but opted out of the booster shot, said he was at the front of a line of people as police moved in on Molesworth St and was practising “non-confrontational passive resistance”.

    He was filming with his phone, at the front of the line against police, with his back against a bank of portable toilets, when the incident happened…

    With police still pushing, one of the officers got dragged to the ground among the protesters, he said. Peters said he was trying to help the officer off the ground.Then he saw about eight riot shields push in to the crowd.

    “Some idiot from our side threw a can or bottle, hitting me on the back of my head.” A police officer then punched him with “three left hooks to the eye”, he said.

    Stuff shows him wearing his black eye in a photo.

    The same officer gouged his eye and punched him in the ribs, he alleged.

    Peters said he was arrested and charged with obstructing police. He is getting a lawyer to help him file an IPCA complaint and also wanted to see the officer who hit him charged with assault.

    A Stuff video recorded the incident, which occurred during a fracas early on Tuesday morning. A statement from police said the video did not “provide the full context of the protest activity and the situation police staff face”.

    So what?? Sounds like something their lawyer dreamed up. Any red herring to evade responsibility for bad behaviour will do, I guess.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/127859891/protester-claims-police-punched-and-eyegouged-him-at-parliament-occupation
    • Muttonbird 16.1

      23 February 2022 at 3:12 pm

      Peters said he was trying to help the officer off the ground.

      Just helping the Police, eh?
    • francesca 16.2

      23 February 2022 at 3:25 pm

      For a giddy moment I thought you were talking about Winston
    • weka 16.3

      23 February 2022 at 3:57 pm

      def eye gouging and head punching of a man with his back against a vehicle and no way to get out. The policeman doing the gouging and punching actually pushes his way past the office in front of him to attack the protestor. I can think of a few things that might provoke that kind of response, but not at that distance. Maybe spitting (in a covid context)?
      • weka 16.3.1

        23 February 2022 at 3:58 pm

        Stuff should release the whole video so we can see what happened before, including the office on the ground.
        • Cricklewood 16.3.1.1

          23 February 2022 at 4:42 pm

          Just heard on the radio video has emerged of a police officer pepper spraying in the direction of the officers which were supposedly attacked with 'battery acid'. Which would blind you in short order…
          • Muttonbird 16.3.1.1.1

            23 February 2022 at 4:58 pm

            Yeah, I too just heard HADP siding with violent, anti-vax protestors against the NZ police. It's a strange world alright.
          • weka 16.3.1.1.2

            23 February 2022 at 6:09 pm

            that rumour is on twitter too, but I haven't yet seen good evidence to support it (not saying it's not true, but just that there are a bunch of reckons out there).
          • Tricledrown 16.3.1.1.3

            23 February 2022 at 10:51 pm

            Not if a first aider had a neutraliser which looked like what was rinsed on to the officers faces.
        • Andrew Miller 16.3.1.2

          23 February 2022 at 5:09 pm

          Or they should provide the whole video to a body that carry out a proper investigation rather than the inevitable mess it’ll becomes if it’s trial by internet.
          • weka 16.3.1.2.1

            23 February 2022 at 6:10 pm

            that should happen too, but now that we have a partial video, they should release the whole thing. People will speculate, better for them to speculate from an evidence base.
      • Robert Guyton 16.3.2

        23 February 2022 at 4:42 pm

        Perhaps the officer was also hit by a bottle (or can) thrown from Peters' "side" and believed it came from him? Or some such undisclosed provocation.

        It does seem as though the injuries he received resulted from his arrest.

        Ought he, or we, be surprised?

        Saddened, yes, but, surprised?
        • Cricklewood 16.3.2.1

          23 February 2022 at 4:51 pm

          Eitherway we dont need policethat dish out shit like that. Hate to think how he treats people when there are no cameras around. Basically a thug with a uniform to hide behind.
        • weka 16.3.2.2

          23 February 2022 at 6:12 pm

          If he was hit by a thrown bottle before the start of the video, he has time to get himself under control.

          Something happened, we don't know if it was provocation or the office losing his shit.

          Like Cricklewood, I don't believe this is acceptable behaviour from a police. If there is a rationale from police I'd like to hear why it justifies eye gouging.
      • McFlock 16.3.3

        23 February 2022 at 5:17 pm

        Sure made a bee-line for him.

        Really depends on what was going on under the surface of the crowd whether it was excessive. The situation in front of the portaloos (on the left) seemed to get a bit argy-bargy-ish a couple of seconds beforehand.

        That having been said, I still wouldn't trust the cops or the protester as a source for truth on that one. I don't trust the dude that he really was all peace and light at the time, and justifying unacceptable behaviour after the fact is standard procedure for almost every police force on the planet.
        • weka 16.3.3.1

          23 February 2022 at 6:13 pm

          It's the eye gouging for me. Is there anything that would justify that? The punches seemed pretty hard out too though.
          • Cricklewood 16.3.3.1.1

            23 February 2022 at 7:18 pm

            Hate to think how a cop like that would deal with a smart arse teenager when there aren't any cameras around…
            • Robert Guyton 16.3.3.1.1.1

              23 February 2022 at 7:43 pm

              Then don't think/imagine/catastrophise about it, Cricklewood.

              There are enough real things happening to keep your mind busy.
          • McFlock 16.3.3.1.2

            23 February 2022 at 8:43 pm

            Those sorts of situations are difficult – looked to me like cop was going for the grab of the head he eventually managed, but the waves going through the crowd made it messy. If there was a cop under there and it for an instant looked like portaloo guy wasn't peacefully helping them up and was in fact not being peaceful at all, shit happens when you're half falling over but your colleague's in trouble.

            Or he'd just lost his shit completely and should have signalled earlier that his cup was about to overfloweth.

            Neither is ideal, but only one will get lots of investigation and maybe a charge/dismissal.
            • weka 16.3.3.1.2.1

              23 February 2022 at 9:40 pm

              understandable that most bets are off if someone is on the ground, especially a colleague, but I understood the officer to have been helped up before the start of the video (which is one good reason Stuff should release the whole thing).
              • McFlock …

                23 February 2022 at 9:47 pm

                Fair.

                There was definitely something going bad in the area at the time. But I doubt we'll get a clear story.
    • Robert Guyton 16.4

      23 February 2022 at 4:00 pm

      He was defending the toilets – from the police?

      Peters also said,

      “Some idiot from our side threw a can or bottle, hitting me on the back of my head.”

      It's inconceivable then, that the situation might have got out of control at one point.

      It's not good at all that the man was injured – I wonder if he'll also file charges for the idiot from his side who threw a can or bottle, hitting him on the back of the head?
      • Muttonbird 16.4.1

        23 February 2022 at 5:04 pm

        The video didn't show where the gentleman was trying to "help" the officer on the ground, but it did show him mouthing off at police in the middle of a riot.

        So, meh.

        The Sopers have his back though. Whether that is purely for political purposes or not, I'm sure it is a comfort to Mr Peters.
17. Temp O'Rary 17

    23 February 2022 at 3:28 pm

    I don't know the details of NZ protest funding laws, but it seems unlikely that our government can even officially know who donated what to whom. It took an illegal hack of GiveSend Go in Canada for information to become public anyway. The State of Emergency in Canada is being maintained in part to allow such action until non-emergency laws can be strengthened. Also because some of the dispersed demonstrators (and their vehicles) didn't go very far out of Ottawa.

    Federal officials report most of the accounts are now in the process of being released, a parliamentary committee heard Tuesday.

    Isabelle Jacques, assistant deputy minister of finance, told a committee of MPs that up to 210 bank accounts holding about $7.8 million were frozen under the financial measures contained in the Emergencies Act…

    She said the measures should not affect anyone who provided financial support to the convoy before Feb. 15. Jacques said that anyone who saw their account frozen and who subsequently left the blockade area should expect to see the account unfrozen in the coming days…

    Jacques told MPs that before the Emergencies Act was invoked, FINTRAC — Canada's financial intelligence unit — could not police the movement of money through some crowdfunding websites and some payment service providers.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-finance-committee-1.6360769

    The money flowing into the protest exposed a gap in Canada's federal political financing rules. Those rules prohibit people who aren't Canadian citizens or permanent residents from donating to Canadian politicians or political parties — but they are silent on donations to political protests by those who aren't Canadian…

    Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland announced the government would adopt new measures to cover crowdfunding sites, which currently are not obliged to report to FINTRAC, Canada's money laundering and terrorist-financing watchdog.

    "We are broadening the scope of Canada's anti-money laundering and terrorist-financing rules so that they cover crowdfunding platforms and the payment service providers they use," Freeland told reporters. "These changes cover all forms of transactions, including digital assets such as cryptocurrencies.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/convoy-protest-donations-data-1.6351292
18. observer 18

    23 February 2022 at 4:41 pm

    https://twitter.com/AndreAlessi/status/1496322156317519872
    • Robert Guyton 18.1

      23 February 2022 at 4:43 pm

      Weetbix, mixed with soy sauce – ewww!
19. Anker 19

    23 February 2022 at 5:04 pm

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/02/anti-mandate-protesters-share-photo-of-man-wearing-hearing-aid-as-evidence-of-police-infiltrators.html

    Wow just wow. This interview with Coster. I find him seriously impressive. A very balanced straight forward response to questions. No hyperbole. But calling things like the pooh throwing "apalling tactics" which of course they are.

    Neither confirming or denying protester speculation about plants in the crowd (I don't believe this, but Coster was suitably neutral about it).

    I think he's a hero. They guy we need right now. Talking about the vulnerable people in the crowd, which I am sure it is true (unlike Govt who are smearing them). But also stating they need to go so they can get control over the trouble makers.
    • Peter 19.1

      23 February 2022 at 5:28 pm

      Yeah, a guy in the crowd had a thing in his ear hooked up to his international masters who are trying to take over the world through covid.

      If paranoia and ignorance were money the mob in Wellington would be worth a zillion dollars.
20. Tiger Mountain 20

    23 February 2022 at 5:17 pm

    Jeez, occupying Parliament grounds illegally for nearly two weeks, who would have thought that the state forces might begin to close in and give the occupiers a hint that it is time to move on…

    I have been on so many actions and protests over the years that have involved excessive force from the cops–e.g. union members suffering broken sternum bones at Astley Tanneries picket in New Lynn Auckland early 90s. The mainly Polynesian workers linked arms and cops swung their batons on purpose to injure the front row.

    Be careful before you place yourself in front of a squad of cops is all I can say. They are at it at Chep Pallets today in Penrose, hassling striking First Union members, essential workers going for a pay rise slightly above minimum wage. Police issued trespass notices at the urging of the multinational employer to clear them off the public footpath. They had to withdraw the notices because they were clearly unlawful.

    The cops are not your friend unless you are a lost tramper or something. In a tight spot when exercising your democratic rights be aware of that. I do not support this occupation because it is undermining the public health campaign against COVID, and the Police are doing an ok job in the situation.
21. Muttonbird 21

    23 February 2022 at 5:20 pm

    Some fine people out there in clown camp world.

    Protesters seen licking hands before pressing central Wellington pedestrian crossing buttons

    I do wish the Wellington Airport fire dept would drive their water cannon truck to Parliament and give these filthy ratbags a good hose down.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-protesters-seen-licking-hands-before-pressing-central-wellington-pedestrian-crossing-buttons/NA6ZM4ZXMMCNXUE63UJNWQZV2U/
    • McFlock 21.1

      23 February 2022 at 5:24 pm

      to hell with covid, why don't all these pricks have norovirus already?
      • Matiri 21.1.1

        23 February 2022 at 5:32 pm

        Hopefully soon with portaloos being 'serviced' less often due to the concrete barriers.
22. PsyclingLeft.Always 22

    23 February 2022 at 5:58 pm

    "This is a serious disease that people need to take seriously."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/462093/auckland-epidemiologist-rod-jackson-urges-new-zealanders-to-take-omicron-seriously

    And aye !
23. Belladonna 23

    23 February 2022 at 8:19 pm

    And, confirming what we knew had to be going on – officials confirm at least 2 Covid cases among protesters.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-health-officials-confirm-at-least-two-positive-test-results-among-protesters/CKADPJPXVAPCRKYH7W6TWF4PJI/?c_id=1&objectid=12506745&ref=rss

    Dunno how they'd be able to isolate…..as required….
24. georgecom 24

    23 February 2022 at 9:02 pm

    on a more somber note I see protestor numbers are starting to thin, not helped by covid spreading through the camp and the like of Billy Te Kahika telling people to go home. How irresponsible. I have just landed a container load of quality tin foil hats – guaranteed to stop covid19, emps, 5g mobile rays, freemasons, police infiltrators and spike proteins shed by people who have had the pfizer vaccine.- I was going to take to wellington this weekend to sell
    • Anne 24.1

      23 February 2022 at 9:53 pm

      
    • Shanreagh 24.2

      23 February 2022 at 10:54 pm

      Oh Georgecom what a disappointment, maybe you could turn them upside down, fill them with sweets and biscuits and chocolate bars and take them down to Wellington Central Police Station. Hear they are having lots of donations given to them.

      

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