Covid, the US President and the Evangelical churches

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, September 10th, 2020 - 123 comments
Categories: covid-19, Donald Trump, religion, uncategorized - Tags:

Some interesting news both locally and internationally over the past few days.

Bob Woodward has written a book that suggests that for political reasons associated with his re-election chances Donald Trump downplayed the severity of the Covid threat, even though he was well aware of what the risks were.  From CNN:

President Donald Trump admitted he knew weeks before the first confirmed US coronavirus death that the virus was dangerous, airborne, highly contagious and “more deadly than even your strenuous flus,” and that he repeatedly played it down publicly, according to legendary journalist Bob Woodward in his new book “Rage.”

“This is deadly stuff,” Trump told Woodward on February 7.

In a series of interviews with Woodward, Trump revealed that he had a surprising level of detail about the threat of the virus earlier than previously known. “Pretty amazing,” Trump told Woodward, adding that the coronavirus was maybe five times “more deadly” than the flu.

Trump’s admissions are in stark contrast to his frequent public comments at the time insisting that the virus was “going to disappear” and “all work out fine.”

The book, using Trump’s own words, depicts a President who has betrayed the public trust and the most fundamental responsibilities of his office. In “Rage,” Trump says the job of a president is “to keep our country safe.” But in early February, Trump told Woodward he knew how deadly the virus was, and in March, admitted he kept that knowledge hidden from the public.

“I wanted to always play it down,” Trump told Woodward on March 19, even as he had declared a national emergency over the virus days earlier. “I still like playing it down, because I don’t want to create a panic.”

Panics caused by the spread of a crippling pandemic that causes multiple fatalities are obviously bad for re-election chances.

And the United States influence has been shown recently with news that a New Zealand church with links to the US evangelical movement being blamed for the continued spread of the virus locally.  From Anusha Bradley at Radio New Zealand:

Health Minister Chris Hipkins has said some of the 43 people linked to the Mt Roskill Evangelical Fellowship church cluster in Auckland were sceptical about the seriousness of the pandemic, as church and community leaders say they face a battle to check the spread of false information.

Pakilau Manase Lua grew up in the Seventh Day Adventist church and said his own friends and family were guilty of spreading conspiracies and false information about Covid-19.

“I’ve personally received lots of private messages regarding information that people think is useful but is purely disinformation, either about the virus itself or fear around the vaccine,” he said.

Lua, who is the chairman of the Pacific Leadership Forum’s Pacific Response Coordination Team, said this spread was especially rife among those with links to conservative evangelical or pentecostal churches in the United States.

“It’s been spreading like wildfire through social media.”

There is a report that the police shut down a gathering at the church which was in breach of Covid restrictions and leaders were warned they could face prosecution if they gathered again.

The leaders of the church need to get this under control.  Covid is clearly is not part of a conspiracy.  It is a deadly virus that has caused the deaths of at least 900,000 people world wide.  Locally we can beat it.  But everyone needs to follow the advice of people who know what they are talking about.

Social media, especially Facebook has a lot to answer to and has been central in the spread of anti science information that is threatening to undermine .  Kathy Errington in Stuff explains why:

Conspiracy theories are highly engaging content online. It can be politically useful to get them behind your cause because they will relentlessly push your key messages out again and again. Yet they are leading people all over the world to ignore the necessary public health measures in place to protect their lives.

In a crisis this severe humans are hard-wired to be drawn towards conspiracy theories – we like big problems to have equally big causes, a term psychologists call proportionality bias. Surely something as catastrophic as COVID 19 must have an equally large, dark and complex origin story? Can it really be just a bat that likely caused all of this?

Well, yes, that’s it. There is no sinister world government involving Bill Gates and the United Nations getting together with governments globally to invent a pandemic. I worked in government long enough to say with certainty no government could ever pull this off. Even in the ‘before times’ it took months of planning for the Prime Minister to simply leave the country for a day and go to a rugby match.

This puts Gerry Brownlee’s just asking questions episode into perspective and shows how damaging to collective action it was.

For a local example of a political movement attempting to take advantage look no further than Jami Lee Ross’s and Billy Te Kahika’s Advance NZ Party.  The party has recently had a complaint concerning donations sent to the Serious Fraud Office then forwarded to the Electoral Commission. No doubt this will be regarded by some of further evidence of deep state action to suppress dissenting voices.

We can hold the virus at bay.  But we need to not follow the leadership or example provided by the United States.  Especially its current President.

123 comments on “Covid, the US President and the Evangelical churches ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Ad 1
    10 September 2020 at 8:47 am

    It amazes me that the Ministry of Health hasn't cottoned on to the ways in which Pacifika communities prefer to communicate.

    The Ministry of Pacific Peoples appear to be doing a better job, but it is not yet effective.

    The nodes for engaging with Pacifika peoples are not that hard to find and are incredibly influential.

    We have been expected to be calm and rational for far too long – when we know it's the Pacifica peoples who have the most to be afraid of.

    – The South Auckland Pacifika family who were infected a few weeks ago were utterly vilified by New Zealanders on social media, which makes the rest of them afraid

    – Pacifika in South Auckland are among the poorest and least healthy of peoples in New Zealand, so they are highly at risk personally from infection

    – Pacifika people are afraid of being targeted as overstayers, when those whose permits have stopped are not able to actually get back to the island homes they came from – no matter the assurances from government about this

    – Pacifika peoples are now unable to re-contact their relatives in the islands, or even conduct ceremonies in other than virtual form, or otherwise keep their communities and cultures cohesive

    – Pacifika people are poorly represented in the higher levels of the Ministry of Health

    – Pacifika people are one of the most highly vulnerable groups to unemployment at this time, and the jobs they have are mostly manual or poorly paid

    So Pacifika peoples have every reason to be afraid. New Zealand's entire society is not working for them and in many senses works against them.

    No one should expect people to be rational all the time in that context.

    This is exactly the wrong time to vilify Pacifika people or the churches to whom they belong. Everyone needs to keep just talking to each other, as softly and kindly and patiently as possible.

    • Muttonbird 1.1
      10 September 2020 at 9:05 am

      Nope. Lock these rule-breakers up.

      • Sabine 1.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:32 am

        start by closing the churches down that tell the congregation that 'god' is above 'government'.

        at the very least revoke the tax free status they so enjoy.

    • mickysavage 1.2
      10 September 2020 at 9:07 am

      Agree entirely about the Pacifika community and I have very carefully avoided any mention of ethnic background and concentrated solely on the source of the belief. This post is not an attempt to vilify anyone but is urging the church leaders to be more cooperative.

    • peterh 1.3
      10 September 2020 at 10:18 am

      Check out the trustees of the church, not a Pacifika name mybe blame in wrong quarters

      • Ad 1.3.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:42 am

        The spirit of race-based doxxing is alive in this one.

        • Muttonbird 1.3.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 10:44 am

          First post on the thread and you mentioned Pacifica about 20 times.

          frown

          • Ad 1.3.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 10:56 am

            Pacific leaders were mentioned in the post, you moron.

            And it didn't stop you attacking Pacifika churches either.

            At least I had the guts to stand up for them you fucking coward.

            • Muttonbird 1.3.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 10:59 am

              Enough with the abuse. Go have a cup of tea and look at the lake.

              • Ad …
                10 September 2020 at 11:04 am

                When you stop attacking belief systems that people have a human right to have, I will.

                • Muttonbird …
                  10 September 2020 at 11:10 am

                  They are entitled to those beliefs but when those beliefs endanger the lives and wellbeing of others, that is when they should be managed.

                  • Ad …
                    10 September 2020 at 11:20 am

                    That is not your job. Nor the job of political parties.

                    Nor is it the job of the mob to join in.

                    Stop being part of the mob.

    • Shanreagh 1.4
      10 September 2020 at 11:58 am

      Pasifika is the usual spelling. Please can we use this. Nothing worse than having one's name etc spelt incorrectly – (from one who knows whose surname has been incorrectly spelt by others for generations) .

      'There has been some dispute over the correct spelling of Pasifika, sometimes spelt Pasefika, Pacifica, Pacifika. TAGATA PASIFIKA is generally accepted as correct and publicly reinforced by the Television New Zealand programme now also known by the same name but was previously spelt TANGATA PASIFIKA'. Wiki

      • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1
        10 September 2020 at 1:17 pm

        Pasifika is the usual spelling.

        No, really, it isn't.

        pacific (adj.)
        1540s, "tending to make peace, concillatory," from Middle French pacifique, from Latin pacificus "peaceful, peace-making,"

        The Pacific Ocean (1660 in English) was famously so called in 1519 by Magellan when he sailed into it and found it calmer than the stormy Atlantic, or at least calmer than he expected it to be.

        The spelling you suggest seems to be cultural misappropriation by the People's of the Pacific to make them seem more important than they are.

        • Shanreagh 1.4.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 2:31 pm

          Just pointing out the usual name for the people of the Pacific, as they are known in NZ. I was not speaking of the adjective pacific or Magellan.

          I am not sure just what you are talking of in the last sentence but it sounds pretty awful to me. Hopefully you were kidding?

          We in NZ have much to be thankful for our Tagata Pasifika neighbours and our fellow NZ citizens who are of Pasifika origin. All races and cultures in NZ are important to me. Is there a list somewhere that has ratings of the relative importance of the various races on it?

          • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 2:46 pm

            Just pointing out the usual name for the people of the Pacific, as they are known in NZ.

            That's just it – its NOT the usual name.

            Hopefully you were kidding?

            No, I wasn't. Māori and others get upset when other peoples misappropriate their culture. Am I not allowed to get upset when they misappropriate mine?

            We in NZ have much to be thankful for our Tagata Pasifika neighbours and our fellow NZ citizens who are of Pasifika origin.

            Repeating the misspelling still doesn't make it right.

            • Shanreagh 1.4.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 3:32 pm

              Not sure what the relevance of the Whanganui debate is. Our family with its the years of people spelling our name incorrectly welcomed the correction to Whanganui. Sure if you want to keep calling our Pasifika peoples, Pacific or Magellan people whatever you want to call them, that is fine. Just don't try to tell me that correcting spelling from Wanganui to Whanganui is cultural appropriation.

              And what did you actually mean by this?

              …….People's of the Pacific to make them seem more important than they are.

              Don't you agree that Pasifika people have a place and importance in NZ? Just as Maori do & Ngati Vikitoria and all later arrivals.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                10 September 2020 at 4:38 pm

                Not sure what the relevance of the Whanganui debate is.

                The Wanganui debate was about the misspelling of Whanganui and how it was culturally bad.

                Well, now we have Pacific people's purposefully misspelling Pacifica in the same way. If the misspelling of Whanganui was bad then the misspelling of Pacifica is also bad.

                Don't you agree that Pasifika people have a place and importance in NZ?

                No more than anyone else which seems to be the problem as they seem to think that they're more important. As your misspelling of Pacifica is proof of your double standard.

                The word Pacifica is not part of any Polynesian language so stop misspelling it.

                • Shanreagh …
                  11 September 2020 at 8:47 am

                  Reading Stuff this morning I note that twice the reference was to Pasifika people, not Pacifica, Magellan, PI.

                  'Pasifika Medical Association chief executive Debbie Sorensen….'

                  'Auckland councillor and former police officer Alf Filipaina said authorities had to be careful not to create the perception that people who needed to be contacted were in trouble.

                  He would not want to see police knocking on doors or making calls.

                  He did not have a particular problem with an officer offering advice in the background, saying they could have good techniques for talking to people and getting information.

                  But they should be Pasifika – like many of those in the cluster – because they would know the best way to approach the community, he said.'

                  So looks like this part of the media does use this word in reporting people who does identify as Pasifika. '

                  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300104634/pacific-health-leaders-unimpressed-with-police-involvement-in-covid19-contact-tracing

                  Living in Wellington in a suburb I share with Pasifika people I wondered if Wellington was an aberration as I see the word Pasifika in many places. I then looked up Pasifika, without the Tagata and find this

                  Pasifika is a term that is unique to Aotearoa and is a term coined by government agencies to describe migrants from the Pacific region and their descendants, who now call Aotearoa home.2014

                  and this

                  Pasifika in British English

                  (pəˈsɪfɪkə) Australian and New Zealand

                  PLURAL NOUN

                  1. people from the islands of the South Pacific and their descendants

                  ADJECTIVE

                  1. of or relating to these people or their culture

                  Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

                  Word origin

                  C21: from Niuean

                  So the word Pasifika comes from Niuean.

                  Our family, with its surname chronically spelled incorrectly, is sensitive to the words that people use to describe themselves. My dad used to say the biggest compliment is say people's names with a smile on meeting and to spell it correctly from thereon. I reject utterly and totally trying to describe people by names they do not use themselves or to criticise those names when they are used. I reject utterly that Pasifika people

                  seem to think that they're more important

                  The virus that started the second wave is one not seen in NZ before.

                  Notwithstanding the restrictions and levels and requests for testing we still rely on, as well, a hearts & minds/information sharing approach. Hopefully this has borne fruit with the majority of the church congregation having been tested by 8.00am yesterday.

                  This thread has made me uneasy, very squirmy, very sad with the assigning of attitudes to race or culture rather than belief systems and with an unwillingness to call Pacific people by a name that is used in NZ and that is used by them to identify themselves as a group.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    13 September 2020 at 11:21 am

                    And just when did the Niuean have Pacific in their native tongue?

                    The answer, of course, is that they didn't.

                    Like Wanganui, it's a misspelling.

                    My dad used to say the biggest compliment is say people's names with a smile on meeting and to spell it correctly from thereon.

                    So did mine.

                    I reject utterly that Pasifika people

                    seem to think that they're more important

                    The problem, of course, is that they do. It was that self-importance that had them stopping the ocean sanctuary at the Kermadecs which they had no right to do.

                    But they should be Pasifika – like many of those in the cluster – because they would know the best way to approach the community, he said.’

                    Applied racism.

        • cathy-o 1.4.1.2
          13 September 2020 at 5:42 am

          if you’re so concerned with being pedantic why do you use the greengrocer’s apostrophe for a simple plural?

      • jimekus 1.4.2
        13 September 2020 at 2:12 pm

        What's wrong with Pacificx to go with the newly invented term of Latinx?

  2. Red 2
    10 September 2020 at 8:57 am

    I agree to point but Pacifica people also need to take personal responsibility and accountability. They are not all children and I suggest many of them find it patronising how they get lumped into group all the time and treated like a kindergarten Cohort by so called do gooders

    • Andre 2.1
      10 September 2020 at 9:02 am

      In this instance, it's starting to look like some of them may have behaved like a kindergarten cohort.

      • Red 2.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 9:26 am

        True, hence treat them accordingly like any one else, dont lump every Pacific Islander as a child that needs special attention or kid gloves By the far the majority are bloody good citizens and pulling just as hard as every other kiwi

  3. EE 3
    10 September 2020 at 9:32 am

    Religious people believing conspiracy theories.
    Isn’t a belief in god the ultimate conspiracy theory?
    Some invisible supernatural being pulling all the strings.

    • Ad 3.1
      10 September 2020 at 9:57 am

      You don't recognise the fact-free conspiracies that pertain right across ordinary life. Conspiracy and fact-free behaviour change campaigns are all around us – they are certainly not specific to religious communities.

      But top work for attacking our human rights.

    • Dennis Frank 3.2
      10 September 2020 at 11:35 am

      Yeah, but facts can be ascertained. In this situation, investigators ought to find out if any religious leaders told the congregation to ignore the govt rules because that was god's will. Such people are traditionally inclined to declare the will of god so their followers will see them as authorities.

      When the public interest lies in adherence to govt rules, to maintain public health, disobedience authorised by a god is a significant problem.

      Fact-finding is therefore essential. I predict neither National or Labour will demand it. Postmodernism created a culture in which facts are a matter of opinion. They go with that flow…

  4. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 4
    10 September 2020 at 9:34 am

    If fucking religion, whether Pacifica or otherwise, is responsible for the continuation/spread of the virus in NZ, I would metaphorically burn down every fucking church in the country.
    Note: metaphorically!

    • greywarshark 4.1
      10 September 2020 at 9:57 am

      TonyV You can't take this attitude, after reflection. It is a human response of behaviour showing anger to another human behaviour that is disagreed with. If the first behaviour is regarded as irrational, then a quick, reactive response to it is also irrational. We are an irrational species, inclined not to sit down and nut things out but to respond emotionally especially in large groups where the thinkers label the behaviour as a 'contagion'.

      Emotional Contagion in groups

      This study focuses on emotional contagion, "a process in which a person or group influences the emotions, or behavior of another person or group through the conscious or unconscious induction of emotion states and behavioral attitudes" (Schoenewolf , 1990: 50; emphasis added), in particular, the contagion of "everyday" … https://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1101&context=mgmt_papers

    • Ad 4.2
      10 September 2020 at 9:58 am

      This is the kind of attitude that shot and killed 50 people in Christchurch.

      Nice work for siding with terror.

      • Muttonbird 4.2.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:11 am

        You do know what metaphorical means, don't you?

      • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 4.2.2
        10 September 2020 at 10:13 am

        I was at pains to state 'metaphorically.' Of course I over-reacted and, in the best traditions of parliament, I stand, withdraw and apologise,

        But take their tax free status off them, seize their property, close their places of worship.

        If they can't act in the best interests of our 'team of 5 million,' then make it clear to them that their behaviour will not be tolerated.

        • Muttonbird 4.2.2.1
          10 September 2020 at 10:17 am

          But take their tax free status off them, seize their property, close their places of worship.

          Yep. These guys sell god for profit and profit they do. $1.8million tithing in the collection bag last year and none of it goes to the health budget which has to clean up their mess.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363638

          • Adrian 4.2.2.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 2:14 pm

            This is a shitload of money from the 321 adult and children that are required to test so tithing represents $5607 per person say 20k per family.

            Fuck me thats a lot, How can I start a church? thats right I can't do it, I've got christian values.

            • joe90 4.2.2.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 2:33 pm

              • karol121 …
                10 September 2020 at 3:00 pm

                "Once I receive your money, I will only take half, purely for "admin costs" such as a mansion or two, luxury transport, bible seminars at flash resorts, flash clobber, security staff with earpieces stuffed into their canals wearing very dark shades, and other incidental expenses so that I can keep spreading the good word for y'all.

                The other half, I will collect up in cash, which I will throw it into the air in the good lord's direction. If he rejects the offer by not catching the cash, I will keep it as an indication that he does not need it immediately, and that he is entrusting me with his portion"

                I see that one commentator (Hugh Yonn) posting on this video clip reckons he was in booby with a guy who milked one enterprising evangelist loot gatherer for about 8 mil over a 4 year period.

                He, he, he! Talk about swimming with sharks.wink

        • weka 4.2.2.2
          10 September 2020 at 10:29 am

          I can't really see a good reason to use covid to advance anti-religion positions. All that will happen is religious alt people will radicalise away from progressives even further. This is a key in what is happening with the BTK crowd, and the left ignoring, ridiculing and ostracising those communities is a massive mistake.

          The point's been made that the state overreacting will cement anti-state ideology. This doesn't mean not acting, it means acting in ways that actually work for the people involved. eg my first response to this news was that the police should be used. But this is a poor stand alone response. I've been thinking already that we need a covid warden system, of trusted people in communities who can step in and deal with situations in context.

          Police are always there as a back up and obv should be used in situations like people absconding from Q. But we need to get more nuanced in how we call people into the need to work together. Imo you can't force communities to do this, you have to work with them.

        • Ad 4.2.2.3
          10 September 2020 at 10:44 am

          Why the tax status of a church is relevant to preventing the spread of Covid-19 is something you will have to explain to us.

          • greywarshark 4.2.2.3.1
            10 September 2020 at 12:11 pm

            It's part of selling religion being a business, yet still being tax-free even when they are a force to be reckoned with! That means that many new churches or church movements are operating for a buck, and there may be little actual moral suasion available to appeal to. This is part of the religious matrix that capitalism has thrown up in these days of money worship.

            (I looked up suasion to see if it is different to persuasion and I thought the example that came up was relevant:
            persuasion as opposed to force or compulsion.
            "the clearing banks found the use of both moral suasion and direct controls particularly irksome")

        • RedLogix 4.2.2.4
          10 September 2020 at 11:19 am

          And some people come all over anxious when I use the phrase 'the authoritarian left' … devil

          Yes a pandemic requires temporary measures that are more restrictive than usual, but it's not an excuse to go full metal Jacobin on us.

          • AB 4.2.2.4.1
            10 September 2020 at 12:08 pm

            "some people come all over anxious when I use the phrase 'the authoritarian left'"

            I think the anxiety (or bemusement?) comes from your extrapolation of a few intemperate blurts from a handful of individuals on The Standard, into the existence of a whole political movement that is poised to impose 'Marxism' on us by force.

            • RedLogix 4.2.2.4.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 12:19 pm

              And when challenged on these ‘intemperate outbursts’ the individuals involved are doubling down, strongly arguing for their authoritarian vision.

              And given how there are no Marxists I find it quite astonishing how much push back I get when I suggest maybe, given it's appalling track record, that it's time the left drew a line under marxist thinking and moved on.

              And I’m stopping here, lest we go further OT again.

        • JohnSelway 4.2.2.5
          10 September 2020 at 2:10 pm

          " But take their tax free status off them, seize their property, close their places of worship."

          The tax free bit bothers me the most. Fucking Sanitarum foods don't pay any income taxes.

          • RedBaronCV 4.2.2.5.1
            10 September 2020 at 2:38 pm

            I too have a problem with some of the "tax free" religion. When a religion provides community or welfare services that are generally available to all according to their need for the service that feels okay but when the service is only provided based on the adherence of the recipient to the service provider's views then it feels not okay. I'd suggest tax free status based on an internal/external test of recipients.

            But didn't the charities commission chase Greenpeace instead?

            Also some of the tithing undertaken can affect families financially.

            Not that any of this has much to do with covid unless long term decreasing of resources means less money to spend on disinformation.

  5. greywarshark 5
    10 September 2020 at 9:44 am

    I wrote the other day about reading a 'faction' novel on the effect of the bubonic plague on Eyam in England in the 16th century. There was a political changeover at the time from Cromwell's Puritanism back to one of their kings, could have been Charles Second.

    The Puritan minister was very into finding it a retribution or punishment that came to those who had not kept to the rules or outright sinned. And they had so many rules. People felt helpless and examined themselves to see what they might have been guilty of in thought, word or deed.

    That minister called on Psalm 91 according to the author. It is a sort of prayer of promise of what goodness will come to people who live right. It is really one of hope that life will be good to them. But it was interpreted as a statement from God and people who hadn't understanding of how this terrible plague spread, were mystified and terrified. It is bad when this style of preaching is adopted in the 21st century when we know so much and have had to adjust our Christian beliefs to incorporate these understandings.

    https://www.kingjamesbible.me/Psalms-Chapter-91/

    These are lovely words – from the King James Version, poetic and uplifting. But really a prayer, a desire for good, which no-one can be sure will be granted.

    6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
    7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
    9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
    10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
    11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
    12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

  6. joe90 6
    10 September 2020 at 10:03 am

    Arseholes deliberately flouted alerts, met illegally, played silly-buggars over testing and failed to cooperate with contact tracing efforts. Little wonder abuse thrives in these fundie outfits. Fuck ém.

    • weka 6.1
      10 September 2020 at 10:30 am

      "Fuck ém."

      Nek minit, another outbreak. People who don't trust the state won't trust it more if they're ostracised.

      • Sabine 6.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:35 am

        so what to do then?

        And why don't they trust the government? Maybe because preachers in these churches are given talking points from the US to use here? Women to be stay at home daughters until married, then to be stay at home wifes? God above government? Etc?

        If one were to care one could follow the talking points all the way back to a rightwing 'evangelic' think tank somehwere in the States.

        honestly i agree, fuck em. The whole world is currently suffering and we will charge people a 300NZD instant fine if they dare to sit on a bus without a mask of sort, but there…..lets be kind n gentle lest there is another outbreak?

        • woodart 6.1.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 4:52 pm

          if they dont trust the state, obviously they dont wont ANY help from the state when the shit hits the fan, be we know that isnt true. its just another bunch of selfish buggers taking advantage of a team of five million. if they dont want to be part of a team of five million, they should be honest enough to bugger off and start their own team, in their own sandpit.

  7. tc 7
    10 September 2020 at 10:04 am

    We have a usa problem mickey. The zuck is effectively backing this on stalkbook, his recent wibbling comedians will devour.
    He should just front in the bathrobe like in the movie to add some flair.

  8. Muttonbird 8
    10 September 2020 at 10:05 am

    The ironing is strong with these ultra right-wing god-botherers. Nearly super-spreader and defender of all things conservative, Duncan Garner, says the Mt Roskill Evangelical Church and the Bay Roskill Rugby League Club are so closely related they are the same organisation.

    The deliberate rule-breaking and lying to health authorities is the very thing stopping community and kids' sport from resuming in Auckland. They have essentially destroyed the remainder of the winter season across all codes not only for themselves and their own kids but for everyone else and their kids too.

    So, so community minded, aren’t they?

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/duncan-garner-mt-roskill-evangelical-church-not-secret-sect-of-wealthy-elites.html

    • Ad 8.1
      10 September 2020 at 10:54 am

      And those Jews right?

      And those Muslims! Forming groups. Doing engagement.

      We should actively root out all communities because of their superspreader risk.

      Let's scorch the earth with blame.

      • Muttonbird 8.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:58 am

        False equivalence. Try again, hotshot.

        • Ad 8.1.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:05 am

          Unchecked rage from the masses comes to them all.

          Check it building on ZB and on Facebook right now.

          The same untrammelled rise of hate.

          • Muttonbird 8.1.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 11:13 am

            Another nice try. People do get angry without being right wing. You do it yourself about some pretty esoteric, meaningless shit.

            • Ad 8.1.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 11:18 am

              Getting angry at people for getting infected with Covid 19 is wrong.

              Doesn't matter their social or political affiliation.

              Completely and utterly the wrong approach.

              • Muttonbird …
                10 September 2020 at 11:25 am

                Heard this idea from the DG. People aren't the problem, the virus is the problem.

                That much is true until people also become the problem…

                • Ad …
                  10 September 2020 at 11:34 am

                  Both the Director General and the Prime Minister.

                  We've listened so far and they've been right every time.

                  They have earned our trust on this one as well.

        • RedLogix 8.1.1.2
          10 September 2020 at 11:33 am

          False equivalence. Try again, hotshot.

          The second wave outbreak in North Melbourne substantially originated in the Muslim community there, some of whom expressed skeptical, dismissive or casual attitudes towards the virus.

          But Dan Andrews state govt was at pains not to make the community the problem, rather it focused on communicating better with them and sorting through the multiple issues in front of them. The govt and most of the media made a real effort to avoid vilification and scapegoating.

          The equivalence in this example is 100% valid.

          • Ad 8.1.1.2.1
            10 September 2020 at 11:35 am

            Dan Andrews is walking a principled line, without much Federal support.

            • Muttonbird 8.1.1.2.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 12:00 pm

              Headed up the very worst Covid response in the Pacific region. We'll be like Melbourne too if communities are allowed to make up their own rules.

              • greywarshark …
                10 September 2020 at 12:15 pm

                So right Muttonbird – cool line of logic can't be faulted.

              • RedLogix …
                10 September 2020 at 12:38 pm

                So should we be 'metaphorically' burning down mosques as well?

                The root cause the failure to deal early and effectively with the outbreak in Victoria is widely recognised as being the more to do with the highly fragmented and commercialised nature of their health system … a legacy of previous liberal state govts.

                For instance when you go into a hospital in VIC, it's more like a building housing a collection of small businesses, than an integrated operation as kiwis would expect. Much the same applies across the whole state, and while it works OK at handling individual cases, it's a system that struggles to handle community wide pandemics.

                By contrast the health system here in QLD works a lot more like the one we have in NZ, and the relative outcomes reflect this.

                Plus I think we should also acknowledge the role of Vitamin D plays in protecting people becoming serious cases of COVID. That's a factor that needs to be understood before we start blaming people for becoming ill.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  10 September 2020 at 1:50 pm

                  For instance when you go into a hospital in VIC, it's more like a building housing a collection of small businesses, than an integrated operation as kiwis would expect.

                  Went to a physiotherapist a while back and the building was most definitely a collection of small businesses than an integrated operation which, as you imply, is another failure of capitalism.

                  Health should be a state monopolly.

                  Plus I think we should also acknowledge the role of Vitamin D plays in protecting people becoming serious cases of COVID.

                  I recall a news item from last century. A young couple had their first born who was constantly sick. Turns out the problem was that they'd followed all advice on covering from the sun to prevent skin cancer and thus the child just was getting enough sunlight to generate the vitamin D that she needed.

                  Yes, people, to actually be healthy you need sunlight.

                  • JohnSelway …
                    10 September 2020 at 2:12 pm

                    "Health should be a state monopolly."

                    If there is a public option available but people want to pay money to have private healthcare why not let them?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      10 September 2020 at 2:48 pm

                      Because it results in a misallocation of resources and thus leads to long queues and avoidable harm being caused all for the selfishness of those few.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      10 September 2020 at 2:59 pm

                      How does it result in misallocation of resources? As far as I am aware the private hospitals have to source their own resources and are not government provided.

                      How does a private hospital cause long queues at a public hospital?

                      How is it selfish to pay for your own healthcare instead of going through the public hospitals?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      10 September 2020 at 4:19 pm

                      JS, even during times of teacher shortages, private schools never seem to have too much trouble sourcing the teachers they need. I suspect it's much the same with medical specialists and the proportion of time some choose to allocate to public vs private practice. Never mind that in NZ most doctors and nurses receive their initial training in publically-funded institutions; private practices remove some of that indispensible health service 'resource' (clinicians, nurses, etc.) from the 'pool' available to public hospitals.

                      If NZ resourced our public health services adequately, and put more $$$ into university medical schools, then maybe more wealthy individuals would choose to be treated in our (still) excellent but congested public health system. But where do the $$$ come from?

                      I'd prefer to live in a society where an individual's financial wherewithal didn't determine the quality and timeliness of the health services and treatments they could access, but that's just me.

                    • RedLogix …
                      10 September 2020 at 4:43 pm

                      @DMK

                      The socialist left has very successfully used universal access to both education and health as an indirect and effective means of mitigating inequality. So when we see wealthy individuals bypassing the system to purchase more than the usual share we quite understandably get anxious about it. It feels like they're cheating.

                      The problem we run up against is that providing 100% coverage (in other words the very best health or education services) to 100% of the people 100% of the time is beyond our resources. It's partly a law of diminishing returns; a decently developed nation can provide say 80% coverage at a cost of around 5 – 10% of GDP. But as we approach 100% the costs accelerate in a non-linear fashion that no nation has been able to afford or politically sustain.

                      This creates an intractable gap between what can be universally provided, and the potential demand. It forces the system into some form of rationing at the margins; the public sector does it by often arcane and non-transparent waiting list rules, the private sector by a market mechanism. Which of these mechanisms is morally preferable isn't obvious to me and would make for a good debate. Although I can probably safely say that from the perspective of the person suffering and needing urgent medical treatment, if they can afford to pay for it the choice would be a lot more clear cut in the moment.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      10 September 2020 at 10:05 pm

                      RL, I understand it's not realistic to eliminate all unmet health needs in any society. I'm ideologically opposed to healthcare 'services' in which access to timely critical healthcare is determined even in part by a market mechanism, and that's the system we have in NZ – a system where those that can afford it may purchase private healthcare services and live longer with a better quality of life (on average) as a result.

                      I believe that ideally preventable gaps of this type should be minimised, and as such that any and all proposed changes to the public health service (at least) should be analysed for the possibilty that they might exacerbate inequality of access and health outcomes. I'll leave it to those of a more pragmatic persuasion to scrap over the acceptable sizes of the many and varied gaps that exist in our society, but IMHO those gaps are plenty wide enough already – please let’s try to close them, or at the very least not let them get any worse.

                      In her essay below, Liang describes poverty as a “heritable condition” that perpetuates and amplifies through generations: “It is also not hard to see how individual poverty flows into communities and society, with downstream effects on economics, crime and health, as well as many other systems. Loosen one strand and everything else unravels.”

                      A Kete Half Empty

                      Poverty is your problem, it is everyone’s problem, not just those who are in poverty. – Rebecca, a child from Te Puru

                      https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/currently-currently/poverty-new-zealand-kete-half-empty

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      10 September 2020 at 10:19 pm

                      How does it result in misallocation of resources? As far as I am aware the private hospitals have to source their own resources and are not government provided.

                      Except that they don't. They grab public hospital doctors and use them thus taking them away from the public queues.

          • Muttonbird 8.1.1.2.2
            10 September 2020 at 12:02 pm

            All the more reason to manage those communities properly! Govern, ffs.

            • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.2.2.1
              10 September 2020 at 1:53 pm

              Not so much manage those communities but ensure that they're properly communicated with.

              Something that we seem to have forgotten in this age of the Information Super-highway. People still need to be informed from reputable sources and the community needs to ensure that people have that information.

  9. Andre 9
    10 September 2020 at 10:11 am

    The superspreading event for this latest outbreak may be religion-related. But what were they earlier this year?

    A wedding leer-up. An industry conference. An ordinary everyday function at an ordinary everyday pub in an ordinary everyday town. A school. Aged-care community homes.

    What all of these have in common (except the rest-homes) is large numbers of people gathering close together making loud mouth-noises at each other for long periods of times.

    Let's keep the attention on the actual behaviour that's risky. The motivations and demographics of those that tend towards those behaviours is very much a secondary thing, to be considered when figuring out new ways to meet their needs in ways that remove or reduce the transmission risk.

    • weka 9.1
      10 September 2020 at 10:31 am

      I agree, although we're not in March now. We know what works, and we have communities and groups of people deliberately working against that. In addition to the behaviours around covid we're going to have to address what to do about the conspiracy, low science literacy, anti-govt stuff.

      • Sabine 9.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 10:50 am

        Anti government types – Better and more honest government that actually works for the people – and the current options are not doing a stellar job here – considering that the poor and very poor and soon to be really poor working class are getting nothing but lipservice from the no – mates party, the labour party and all others. One can't even call it crumps what falls of these tables.

        Low science literacy – maybe provide the same funds to the seriously underfunded schools where these people live, rather then just shoveling money into the schools for the children of the very rich and politically connected?

        Conspiracy – in absence of a better narrative from government conspiracies are growing, besides its only a conspiracy until its proven correct.

        • Peter 9.1.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:35 am

          The current options are not doing a stellar job all right. People being told to social distance, not be in close quarters big gatherings, wearing masks, hand-washing and so on aren't working at stellar levels.

          It's a blame society so who to blame for the Mt Roskill outbreak? Ardern? Hipkins? Bloomfield? They didn't do a stellar job.

          Do you expect them to do stellar jobs for every individual everywhere including all churches.

          Ardern cannot beat the Bible. Ardern cannot beat the power of the daily dependence some people have on their bible and their pastor. Ardern cannot harness or change the ignorance which has been captured by others.

          • Sabine 9.1.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 12:21 pm

            i have not said a word about hte actions of the government in regards to Covid. Firstly.

            Secondly my remarks are in regards to Wekas comment, which also has nothing to do with the actions of the Government in regards to Covid.

            Ardern can't beat the bible, but she could have put enough money in the pockets of the poor to not be so poor as to be reliant on churches not only for the souls but also for the physical aspect of living. Many of these churches are the first places people go to when they come into issues with money, housing, food insecurity etc. And on this the government has done a job that is less then stellar.

            Ardern cannot harness or change the ingnorance captured by others, true, but she can fund low decile schools, build classrooms where kids now sit in prota coms without heating or cooling, can fund a lunch programm for every kid every where and not just a wee program here and there, she can fund literacy classes for adults, she can fund free tampons and other female hygiene products to be dispensed in low decile schools so that girls can go to school without fear of running around with blood patches on their nether regions, but we only get a little trial in the Waikato (thanks to the Greens btw) and so on and so on and so on, and all of that is part of the Government not doing a stellar job, and the void is filled by Churches, Temples and Qanon.

            And last but least, yes i expect the Government to do a stellar job for all and not just a few. And if we can charge people on a bus a instant 300 NZD fine for not wearing a mask, then the government can charge a fine to churches who don't obey the rules, or even revoke their tax exempt status. Its not as if the government does not have tools to use.

            • Peter 9.1.1.1.1.1
              10 September 2020 at 2:32 pm

              She should change history but she can't. She should have pushed through all sorts of social-economic policies to dramatically change the face of the country which sees it as it is. You can't do that when you get 38% of the votes.

              Don't worry the Collins led Government will be more stellar the Ardern's. And don't worry about kids in unheated portacom classrooms. With Act's education policy the woes will be a thing of the past:

              • "Provide every child with a Student Education Account. A child will receive $250,000 of taxpayer-funded education over their life, but parents have little choice in how it’s spent. ACT will empower parents by placing this money in a Student Education Account. Parents will be able to use it at any registered educational institution that will accept their child’s enrolment, public or private."
    • Draco T Bastard 9.2
      10 September 2020 at 1:55 pm

      The motivations and demographics of those that tend towards those behaviours is very much a secondary thing,

      I'd consider those things to be a primary consideration. Its those motives that's driving the faulty behaviour.

  10. Treetop 10
    10 September 2020 at 10:15 am

    Trump was probably hoping that Covid – 19 would taper off like SARS did or a treatment or a vaccine to be found.

    The message needs to be safety first when the actions of others can have a deadly impact or cause long term harm to health.

    Strength to face uncertainty, percieved unfairness, be willing to do what needs to be done to be safe and keep others safe is required and more…

    • mauī 10.1
      10 September 2020 at 11:08 am

      It appears Covid does taper off as Sweden has found (unless it comes back in winter). Also the US and the UK are quickly returning to their baseline death rates.

      • Treetop 10.1.1
        10 September 2020 at 12:42 pm

        Good news re the tapering off. You raise the winter period, government leaders would be bracing for this.

        Do you know what the factors involved for the tapering off are?

        I am interested in whether or not a strain of Covid – 19 is weakening. There are people out there who will have both flu and Covid – 19 at the same time. The out look for the latter part of 2020 is a worry for northern hemisphere countries.

  11. Muttonbird 11
    10 September 2020 at 10:47 am

    This is why funerals should never, ever be exempted from gathering limits. Breeding grounds for Coronavirus.

    People die. In a pandemic, deal with it.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300103658/why-new-subcluster-has-officials-on-orange-alert

    • Treetop 11.1
      10 September 2020 at 8:29 pm

      Managing to track and trace community cases at level 2 or 2.5 is bullshit.

      I cannot name a country where community spread has extinguished under a level 2 or 2.5.

  12. Anne 12
    10 September 2020 at 10:50 am

    Pacific leaders – and I mean the real leaders not the fundamentalist upstarts – should be taking the lead here. They probably are behind the scenes, but there is an element of urgency now. These individuals (and they're not all of Pacific origin) are effectively holding the rest of NZ to ransom. They need re-education but that takes time.

    In the meantime a bit of stick to bring them into line is essential. I hope the police together with community leaders can achieve something very soon.

    Fury over their behaviour is building fast – as evidenced by Lisa Owen's comment that Checkpoint had received many texts and emails from around the country expressing anger at what has transpired.

    • Muttonbird 12.1
      10 September 2020 at 10:52 am

      Fury is building fast and it could impact the election if the government doesn’t get it right. Perhaps this is what the right wing fundamentalist christians want – deliberate spread…

      When this Americold outbreak began were told a community health response was the right one, rather than a one-size-fits-all health response, which was racist apparently.

      Well, turns out the community health response doesn't work, and the Auckland region is paying a heavy price.

    • Ad 12.2
      10 September 2020 at 11:01 am

      I know it's counterintuitive, but the left need to defend the poor not attack them right now.

      • Muttonbird 12.2.1
        10 September 2020 at 11:16 am

        The left need to get the country moving again, not pander to right-wing fundy nut jobs.

        • Ad 12.2.1.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:21 am

          The government is managing this just fine without the help of you or any other part of the raging mob.

          • Muttonbird 12.2.1.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 11:27 am

            No it's not. The dangers of spread by people who flout the rules, lie to health authorities, don't isolate when told to, are well known by now.

            This cluster wasn't watched closely enough and Auckland is paying dearly.

          • Sabine 12.2.1.1.2
            10 September 2020 at 11:32 am

            ;hahahahah, no the government is not managing this fine. The poor are poorer now then they were three years ago, and while one can blame Covid for it, it is the current government that is not doing a single thing to help the poor. Specifically it is not giving the poor the money they need to not be poor.

          • Treetop 12.2.1.1.3
            10 September 2020 at 12:59 pm

            How would you decrease the infections stemming from the main cluster?

            Covid – 19 is a serious issue and the majority of people are making Covid the issue and would not berate people for their beliefs.

            There needs to be consequences for breaking the law even if people think this is unfair.

            What should the consequences be for transmitting a terrible virus by not naming contacts or isolating?

        • Gabby 12.2.1.2
          10 September 2020 at 6:10 pm

          The Fellowship doesn't seem to be particularly poor.

          • Muttonbird 12.2.1.2.1
            10 September 2020 at 6:16 pm

            They are not. They can afford $183 per parishioner per week in tithing. This is probably why Ad is so attracted to them.

      • Anne 12.2.2
        10 September 2020 at 11:22 am

        I'm not attacking the poor Ad. To the contrary. The majority are doing their best to abide by the rules. I think that when we come out of this time they should be specifically rewarded for their efforts. I believe they will be – provided this govt. stays in power.

        My gripe is with the stupid and naive who (as I said @ 12) are not confined to South Pacifica. In the short term they need the long arm of the law to bring them into line. In the long term they need re-educating.

        • Ad 12.2.2.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:28 am

          Agree.

          Ardern has done pretty well to stand up to the disquiet so far: she is a true leader on this one.

          The longer the leaders stay rational and don't start on a witch hunt, the more society will be protected.

      • Peter 12.2.3
        10 September 2020 at 11:27 am

        Inferring you comment is about the church people in Mt Roskill. I don't know if they are poor, but your comment has me thinking and trying to see things from a different angle.

        Defend the poor's right to spread Covid-19?

        Defend the poor's right to religion?

        Defend the poor's right to be educated?

        Defend the poor's right to do whatever they like regardless of everyone else.

        Defend the poor's right to accept that while they are entitled to 'different views' so are others?

        • Ad 12.2.3.1
          10 September 2020 at 11:32 am

          Definitely defend their human rights.

          Which you can read about in our Bill of Rights Act.

          Definitely defend the right of the poor to be educated. Dialogue tends to work, even if it's more complex than enforcement.

          Defend the right of all of us to be free from disease.

          Defend the right of people to hold irrational views – definitely this is a free and open society the last time I looked.

          I'll just get you to imagine for a moment they were a group of anarchists, holding equally irrational views about state intervention.

          I'd defend them, as well as defending us, as well.

          • greywarshark 12.2.3.1.1
            10 September 2020 at 2:11 pm

            You are so noble Ad.

          • RedLogix 12.2.3.1.2
            10 September 2020 at 4:15 pm

            This is a good example of what I mean when I say 'give a person a bit of moral authority and it's instructive to see what they do with it'.

            Sure there is every reason to be angry and disappointed when this kind of misinformation and wrong-headed thinking puts everyone, and everything NZ has sacrificed so much for, at risk. It certainly feels like there is a bit of moral high ground over there just begging to be stood on. Fair enough.

            Now having gotten everyone's attention, what are you going to do with it? That's the question which reveals whether or not a person can be entrusted with real power.

  13. Tricledrown 13
    10 September 2020 at 11:03 am

    Fundamentalist religious cults breed ignorance to keep followers inline.Brian Tamaki,Bert Potter etc etc.Trump is feeding them to create division.

  14. Tricledrown 14
    10 September 2020 at 11:06 am

    Ad fundamentalist evangelicals vote right wing anti abortion, union, science,antivax ,state education etc.

  15. Whispering Kate 15
    10 September 2020 at 11:23 am

    It is unfortunate that Pacifica people are involved with this Evangelical Church. These fundamentalist churches attract people of all races, and all kinds of levels of our society. I know well educated white folk who are life long followers of the Pentecostal religion and they sure do have some whacky beliefs and once you are suckered in its a lifetime for some. Head shaking really but then we all have some funny ideas about things in life. Who are we to judge.

    This doesn't however give them carte blanche to ignore the Government's effort to tackle a serious public health situation. The police going in and "gently reminding them" of their responsibilities hopefully will defuse the situation. Their tendency within the church to look up to a dominant entity/leader may just be enough for them to heed the seriousness of the situation. The police saying if they transgress again "they may" be fined though wasn't enough. The police should have said they "would be" fined imo.

    • Muttonbird 15.1
      10 September 2020 at 5:39 pm

      One of the best comments on the thread, Kate.

      I’d one occasion to be close to a church like this kind of recently and there was a very broad range of ethnicities. The groom was white and the bride was Tongan. The minister made an explicit point that marriage was between a man and a woman. Edgy, but whatever. Ministers don't make these pointed comments by accident…

      The groupings were a fraught but healthy mix of both lively young and dour old Kiwis. They had fringe beliefs and that is fine. But in this environment they need to control and educate their looser units. They have not done that and Auckland is fed up. I can say this because I am one.

      If they can’t communicate, the government must. Neither happened this time and it has affected a million people plus.

      • Whispering Kate 15.1.1
        11 September 2020 at 10:50 am

        Thank you Muttonbird. No matter what your beliefs are nobody is above the law. Public Health safeguards are a serious matter for everybody. Why these fundamental churches/conspiracy theorists big so deep into the dark web I have no idea. They become so consumed that everything in the end is a conspiracy. I have a niece bless her heart who has such seriously out of whack beliefs that I just cannot comprehend it. Being cynical is one thing but the ludicrous conspiracies she believes in I cannot fathom.

        Hopefully the church elders and pastors will talk sense into their congregations. At least they are getting them all tested. Worrying times indeed.

        • Muttonbird 15.1.1.1
          11 September 2020 at 11:01 am

          It's not good news from Auckland though with Pacific health leaders pushing back against Police involvement.

          They claim their way is best. Well, they had their go and fucked it up. Time for some proper oversight.

  16. Andre 16
    10 September 2020 at 12:24 pm

    This may be better in Open Mike, but since the topic here is religious loons and covid …

    A prominent Ukrainian church leader who previously said the Covid-19 pandemic was "God's punishment" for same-sex marriage has tested positive for the virus.
    …

    The 91-year-old made headlines in March when he told a Ukrainian TV channel that the coronavirus crisis was "God's punishment for the sins of men, the sinfulness of humanity."

    "First of all, I mean same-sex marriage," he added.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/09/europe/ukrainian-leader-covid-same-sex-marriage-trnd/index.html

  17. karol121 17
    10 September 2020 at 1:52 pm

    "In the gull icon corner we had; Muttonbird weighing in, and in the primrose icon corner; Ad"

    And an interesting wrestle it was indeed. There were no holds barred.

    And well done to both champs!

    At a basic level though, reason might prevail in relation to any one individual's post life beliefs.

    I would hope that in a progressive society, the common ground would be that you can believe what you like, but if you then take such a belief (or concept) and attempt to weaponize it, you pretty much make a statement that your own imagination (or faith) has precedence over anyone else's in relation to their expression or position on such topics.

    Is this healthy?

    Taking this one step further, in relation to compliance during a crisis (such as when temporary emergency powers/measures are introduced-whether loved or hated), there would be many left with the impression that a blatant breaking of assembly restrictions by various, simply based on "faith", would be likened to such congregations asserting that their concept takes precedence over mandated restriction and requirement requirements because a preacher or pastor says that a god tells him or her that it’s OK.

    While I personally might congratulate certain groups of individuals engaging in non-compliant activities (such as) if or when they believe such measures are representative of deep rooted concerns culminating in episodic civil unrest, I get the impression that most New Zealanders probably balk when it comes to public health concerns relating to a pandemic being challenged by a congregation insisting that their beliefs and actions are more important than the (widely presumed) health of the public generally.

    Sure. "You gotta have faith" (in something), so how about having faith in common sense when it is seriously needed, and leave the religious concept actions to a time and a place where it is tolerated and supported in New Zealand.

    Personally, those who have faith in one concept or another, culminating in the ignoring emergency measures, please don’t stop expressing what you feel simply because you feel outnumbered in this regard, which you are. But please, in the meantime, comply with disliked, but reasonable enough, temporary legislation.

  19. gsays 19
    10 September 2020 at 4:16 pm

    Be miffed, disappointed, upset, angry even. But keep it to yourself.

    As the PM has said a few times, be kind. While it was in a different context, she also said "They are us". This applies to church folk and NZers returning to these shores who don't look like me/us.

    As has been pointed out already, if we ostracise or persecute folk, a'la the Americold/Tokoroa family, they will be driven away to where they can't be helped.

    • Shanreagh 19.1
      10 September 2020 at 4:35 pm

      Good points gsays and that was why I was heartened to read that the majority (213 of 332) of those in the church at Mt Roskill have been tested as at 8.00am today. Perhaps a mix of carrot, stick and information has done the trick. No matter what religion or race or culture these are OUR people. PI people have had a heap of denigration over the years, they are poor in many cases and we do not want to drive them away.

    • karol121 19.2
      10 September 2020 at 4:40 pm

      Well put, gsays and Shanreagh.

      Correct. If they get driven away or go underground, many will feel that they are in a physical world of their own as well, and will likely feel as if it is the rest of society as de facto non believers of their version of reality against them, both individually and collectively.

      Definitely a thumbs up from me and probably many others for your posts here.

    • mary_a 19.3
      10 September 2020 at 7:06 pm

      @ gsays (19) … well said.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Bernard’s Saturday Soliloquy for the week to July 27

    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 27 were:1. The Minister for Ford Rangers strikes againTransport Minister Simeon Brown was again the busiest of the Cabinet ministers this week, announcing an ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    48 mins ago
  • Ticket To Anywhere

    You got a fast carAnd I want a ticket to anywhereMaybe we make a dealMaybe together we can get somewhereAny place is betterYesterday’s newsletter, Trust In Me, on the report of abuse in state care, and by religious organisations, between 1950 and 2019, coupled with the hypocrisy of Christopher Luxon ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 hour ago
  • Stories of varying weight

    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on anything you may have missed. Share Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 hours ago
  • Balancing External Security and the Economy

    New Zealand is again having to reconcile conflicting pressures from its military and its trade interests. Should we join Pillar Two of AUKUS and risk compromising our markets in China? For a century after New Zealand was founded in 1840, its external security arrangements and external economics arrangements were aligned. ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    19 hours ago
  • Weekly Climate Wrap: The unravelling of the offsets

    The ‘50 Shades of Green’ farmers’ protest in 2019 was heavy on climate change denial, but five years on, scepticism and criticism about the idea that pine forests can save us is growing across the board. File photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the top six news items of note in climate ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    23 hours ago
  • What makes us tick

    This morning the sky was bright.The birds, in their usual joyous bliss. Nature doesn’t seem to feel the heat of what might angst humans.Their calls are clear and beautiful.Just some random thoughts:MāoriPaul Goldsmith has announced his government will roll back the judiciary’s rulings on Māori Customary Marine Title, which recognises ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    1 day ago
  • Foreshore and seabed 2.0

    In 2003, the Court of Appeal delivered its decision in Ngati Apa v Attorney-General, ruling that Māori customary title over the foreshore and seabed had not been universally extinguished, and that the Māori Land Court could determine claims and confirm title if the facts supported it. This kicked off the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the Royal Commission report into abuse in care

    Earlier this week at Parliament, Labour leader Chris Hipkins was applauded for saying that the response to the final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care had to be “bigger than politics.” True, but the fine words, apologies and “we hear you” messages will soon ring ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    1 day ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Friday, July 26

    TL;DR: In news breaking this morning:The Ministry of Education is cutting $2 billion from its school building programme so the National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government has enough money to deliver tax cuts; The Government has quietly lowered its child poverty reduction targets to make them easier to achieve;Te Whatu Ora-Health NZ’s ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Weekly Roundup 26-July-2024

    Kia ora. These are some stories that caught our eye this week – as always, feel free to share yours in the comments. Our header image this week (via Eke Panuku) shows the planned upgrade for the Karanga Plaza Tidal Swimming Steps. The week in Greater Auckland On ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    1 day ago
  • God what a relief

    1. What's not to love about the way the Harris campaign is turning things around?a. Nothingb. Love all of itc. God what a reliefd. Not that it will be by any means easye. All of the above 2. Documents released by the Ministry of Health show Associate Health Minister Casey ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 day ago
  • Trust In Me

    Trust in me in all you doHave the faith I have in youLove will see us through, if only you trust in meWhy don't you, you trust me?In a week that saw the release of the 3,000 page Abuse in Care report Christopher Luxon was being asked about Boot Camps. ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 day ago
  • The Hoon around the week to July 26

    TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking about the Royal Commission Inquiry into Abuse in Care report released this week, and with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent on a UN push to not recognise carbon offset markets and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Friday, July 26

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 26, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Transport: Simeon Brown announced $802.9 million in funding for 18 new trains on the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines, which ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Radical law changes needed to build road

    The northern expressway extension from Warkworth to Whangarei is likely to require radical changes to legislation if it is going to be built within the foreseeable future. The Government’s powers to purchase land, the planning process and current restrictions on road tolling are all going to need to be changed ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 day ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #30 2024

    Open access notables Could an extremely cold central European winter such as 1963 happen again despite climate change?, Sippel et al., Weather and Climate Dynamics: Here, we first show based on multiple attribution methods that a winter of similar circulation conditions to 1963 would still lead to an extreme seasonal ...
    Skeptical Science
    2 days ago
  • First they came for the Māori

    Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when publishedFirst they came for the doctors But I was confused by the numbers and costs So I didn't speak up Then they came for our police and nurses And I didn't think we could afford those costs anyway So I ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    2 days ago
  • Join us for the weekly Hoon on YouTube Live

    Photo by Joshua J. Cotten on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Will the real PM Luxon please stand up?

    Notes: This is a free article. Abuse in Care themes are mentioned. Video is at the bottom.BackgroundYesterday’s report into Abuse in Care revealed that at least 1 in 3 of all who went through state and faith based care were abused - often horrifically. At least, because not all survivors ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    2 days ago
  • Will debt reduction trump abuse in care redress?

    Luxon speaks in Parliament yesterday about the Abuse in Care report. Photo: Hagen Hopkins/Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:PM Christopher Luxon said yesterday in tabling the Abuse in Care report in Parliament he wanted to ‘do the ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Olywhites and Time Bandits

    About a decade ago I worked with a bloke called Steve. He was the grizzled veteran coder, a few years older than me, who knew where the bodies were buried - code wise. Despite his best efforts to be approachable and friendly he could be kind of gruff, through to ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Why were the 1930s so hot in North America?

    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters and Bob Henson Those who’ve trawled social media during heat waves have likely encountered a tidbit frequently used to brush aside human-caused climate change: Many U.S. states and cities had their single hottest temperature on record during the 1930s, setting incredible heat marks ...
    Skeptical Science
    2 days ago
  • Throwback Thursday – Thinking about Expressways

    Some of the recent announcements from the government have reminded us of posts we’ve written in the past. Here’s one from early 2020. There were plenty of reactions to the government’s infrastructure announcement a few weeks ago which saw them fund a bunch of big roading projects. One of ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    2 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Thursday, July 25

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Thursday, July 25 are:News: Why Electric Kiwi is closing to new customers - and why it matters RNZ’s Susan EdmundsScoop: Government drops ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • The Possum: Demon or Friend?

    Hi,I felt a small wet tongue snaking through one of the holes in my Crocs. It explored my big toe, darting down one side, then the other. “He’s looking for some toe cheese,” said the woman next to me, words that still haunt me to this day.Growing up in New ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    2 days ago
  • Not a story

    Yesterday I happily quoted the Prime Minister without fact-checking him and sure enough, it turns out his numbers were all to hell. It’s not four kg of Royal Commission report, it’s fourteen.My friend and one-time colleague-in-comms Hazel Phillips gently alerted me to my error almost as soon as I’d hit ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Thursday, July 25

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 25, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:The Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquiry published its final report yesterday.PM Christopher Luxon and The Minister responsible for ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • A tougher line on “proactive release”?

    The Official Information Act has always been a battle between requesters seeking information, and governments seeking to control it. Information is power, so Ministers and government agencies want to manage what is released and when, for their own convenience, and legality and democracy be damned. Their most recent tactic for ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • 'Let's build a motorway costing $100 million per km, before emissions costs'

    TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:Transport and Energy Minister Simeon Brown is accelerating plans to spend at least $10 billion through Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) to extend State Highway One as a four-lane ‘Expressway’ from Warkworth to Whangarei ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Lester's Prescription – Positive Bleeding.

    I live my life (woo-ooh-ooh)With no control in my destinyYea-yeah, yea-yeah (woo-ooh-ooh)I can bleed when I want to bleedSo come on, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)You can bleed when you want to bleedYea-yeah, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)Everybody bleed when they want to bleedCome on and bleedGovernments face tough challenges. Selling unpopular decisions to ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Casey Costello gaslights Labour in the House

    Please note:To skip directly to the- parliamentary footage in the video, scroll to 1:21 To skip to audio please click on the headphone icon on the left hand side of the screenThis video / audio section is under development. ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    3 days ago
  • Why is the Texas grid in such bad shape?

    This is a re-post from the Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler Headline from 2021 The Texas grid, run by ERCOT, has had a rough few years. In 2021, winter storm Uri blacked out much of the state for several days. About a week ago, Hurricane Beryl knocked out ...
    Skeptical Science
    3 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on a textbook case of spending waste by the Luxon government

    Given the crackdown on wasteful government spending, it behooves me to point to a high profile example of spending by the Luxon government that looks like a big, fat waste of time and money. I’m talking about the deployment of NZDF personnel to support the US-led coalition in the Red ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    3 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Wednesday, July 24

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:40 am on Wednesday, July 24 are:Deep Dive: Chipping away at the housing crisis, including my comments RNZ/Newsroom’s The DetailNews: Government softens on asset sales, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • LXR Takaanini

    As I reported about the city centre, Auckland’s rail network is also going through a difficult and disruptive period which is rapidly approaching a culmination, this will result in a significant upgrade to the whole network. Hallelujah. Also like the city centre this is an upgrade predicated on the City ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    3 days ago
  • Four kilograms of pain

    Today, a 4 kilogram report will be delivered to Parliament. We know this is what the report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care weighs, because our Prime Minister told us so.Some reporter had blindsided him by asking a question about something done by ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Wednesday, July 24

    TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 24, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Beehive: Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced plans to use PPPs to fund, build and run a four-lane expressway between Auckland ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Luxon gets caught out

    NewstalkZB host Mike Hosking, who can usually be relied on to give Prime Minister Christopher Luxon an easy run, did not do so yesterday when he interviewed him about the HealthNZ deficit. Luxon is trying to use a deficit reported last year by HealthNZ as yet another example of the ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    3 days ago
  • A worrying sign

    Back in January a StatsNZ employee gave a speech at Rātana on behalf of tangata whenua in which he insulted and criticised the government. The speech clearly violated the principle of a neutral public service, and StatsNZ started an investigation. Part of that was getting an external consultant to examine ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Are we fine with 47.9% home-ownership by 2048?

    Renting for life: Shared ownership initiatives are unlikely to slow the slide in home ownership by much. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:A Deloitte report for Westpac has projected Aotearoa’s home-ownership rate will ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Let's Win This

    You're broken down and tiredOf living life on a merry go roundAnd you can't find the fighterBut I see it in you so we gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsWe gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsAnd I'll rise upI'll rise like the dayI'll rise upI'll rise unafraidI'll rise upAnd I'll ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Waimahara: The Singing Spirit of Water

    There’s been a change in Myers Park. Down the steps from St. Kevin’s Arcade, past the grassy slopes, the children’s playground, the benches and that goat statue, there has been a transformation. The underpass for Mayoral Drive has gone from a barren, grey, concrete tunnel, to a place that thrums ...
    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    4 days ago
  • A major milestone: Global climate pollution may have just peaked

    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Global society may have finally slammed on the brakes for climate-warming pollution released by human fossil fuel combustion. According to the Carbon Monitor Project, the total global climate pollution released between February and May 2024 declined slightly from the amount released during the same ...
    Skeptical Science
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Tuesday, July 23

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Tuesday, July 23 are:Deep Dive: Penlink: where tolling rhetoric meets reality BusinessDesk-$$$’s Oliver LewisScoop: Te Pūkenga plans for regional polytechs leak out ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Tuesday, July 23

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 23, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Health: Shane Reti announced the Board of Te Whatu Ora- Health New Zealand was being replaced with Commissioner Lester Levy ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • HealthNZ and Luxon at cross purposes over budget blowout

    Health NZ warned the Government at the end of March that it was running over Budget. But the reasons it gave were very different to those offered by the Prime Minister yesterday. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon blamed the “botched merger” of the 20 District Health Boards (DHBs) to create Health ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • 2500-3000 more healthcare staff expected to be fired, as Shane Reti blames Labour for a budget defic...

    Long ReadKey Summary: Although National increased the health budget by $1.4 billion in May, they used an old funding model to project health system costs, and never bothered to update their pre-election numbers. They were told during the Health Select Committees earlier in the year their budget amount was deficient, ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    4 days ago
  • Might Kamala Harris be about to get a 'stardust' moment like Jacinda Ardern?

    As a momentous, historic weekend in US politics unfolded, analysts and commentators grasped for precedents and comparisons to help explain the significance and power of the choice Joe Biden had made. The 46th president had swept the Democratic party’s primaries but just over 100 days from the election had chosen ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    5 days ago
  • Solutions Interview: Steven Hail on MMT & ecological economics

    TL;DR: I’m casting around for new ideas and ways of thinking about Aotearoa’s political economy to find a few solutions to our cascading and self-reinforcing housing, poverty and climate crises.Associate Professor runs an online masters degree in the economics of sustainability at Torrens University in Australia and is organising ...
    The KakaBy Steven Hail
    5 days ago
  • Reported back

    The Finance and Expenditure Committee has reported back on National's Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. The bill sets up water for privatisation, and was introduced under urgency, then rammed through select committee with no time even for local councils to make a proper submission. Naturally, national's select committee ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Vandrad the Viking, Christopher Coombes, and Literary Archaeology

    Some years ago, I bought a book at Dunedin’s Regent Booksale for $1.50. As one does. Vandrad the Viking (1898), by J. Storer Clouston, is an obscure book these days – I cannot find a proper online review – but soon it was sitting on my shelf, gathering dust alongside ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell On The Biden Withdrawal

    History is not on the side of the centre-left, when Democratic presidents fall behind in the polls and choose not to run for re-election. On both previous occasions in the past 75 years (Harry Truman in 1952, Lyndon Johnson in 1968) the Democrats proceeded to then lose the White House ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    5 days ago
  • Joe Biden's withdrawal puts the spotlight back on Kamala and the USA's complicated relatio...

    This is a free articleCoverageThis morning, US President Joe Biden announced his withdrawal from the Presidential race. And that is genuinely newsworthy. Thanks for your service, President Biden, and all the best to you and yours.However, the media in New Zealand, particularly the 1News nightly bulletin, has been breathlessly covering ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    5 days ago
  • Why we have to challenge our national fiscal assumptions

    A homeless person’s camp beside a blocked-off slipped damage walkway in Freeman’s Bay: we are chasing our tail on our worsening and inter-related housing, poverty and climate crises. Photo: Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Existential Crisis and Damaged Brains

    What has happened to it all?Crazy, some'd sayWhere is the life that I recognise?(Gone away)But I won't cry for yesterdayThere's an ordinary worldSomehow I have to findAnd as I try to make my wayTo the ordinary worldYesterday morning began as many others - what to write about today? I began ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • A speed limit is not a target, and yet…

    This is a guest post from longtime supporter Mr Plod, whose previous contributions include a proposal that Hamilton become New Zealand’s capital city, and that we should switch which side of the road we drive on. A recent Newsroom article, “Back to school for the Govt’s new speed limit policy“, ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Monday, July 22

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Monday, July 22 are:Today’s Must Read: Father and son live in a tent, and have done for four years, in a million ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Monday, July 22

    TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #29

    A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
    Skeptical Science
    6 days ago
  • I'd like to share what I did this weekend

    This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    6 days ago
  • For the children – Why mere sentiment can be a misleading force in our lives, and lead to unex...

    National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Order image, ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    6 days ago
  • A friend in uncertain times

    Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • The Chaotic World of Male Diet Influencers

    Hi,We’ll get to the horrific world of male diet influencers (AKA Beefy Boys) shortly, but first you will be glad to know that since I sent out the Webworm explaining why the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was not a false flag operation, I’ve heard from a load of people ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • It's Starting To Look A Lot Like… Y2K

    Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Bernard’s Saturday Soliloquy for the week to July 20

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Pharmac Director, Climate Change Commissioner, Health NZ Directors – The latest to quit this m...

    Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
    1 week ago
  • Flooding Housing Policy

    The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • A Voyage Among the Vandals: Accepted (Again!)

    As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā's Chorus for Friday, July 19

    An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Weekly Roundup 19-July-2024

    Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    1 week ago
  • Weekly Climate Wrap: A market-led plan for failure

    TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Tobacco First

    Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Trump’s Adopted Son.

    Waiting In The Wings: For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
    Bowalley Road
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSA announced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago

  • Joint statement from the Prime Ministers of Canada, Australia and New Zealand

    Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue.  We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • AG reminds institutions of legal obligations

    Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • More young people learning about digital safety

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views.  “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Speech to the Conference for General Practice 2024

    Tēnā tātou katoa,  Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Employers and payroll providers ready for tax changes

    New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts.  “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Experimental vineyard futureproofs wine industry

    An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Funding confirmed for regions affected by North Island Weather Events

    The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Indonesian Foreign Minister to visit

    Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced.   “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Strengthening partnership with Ngāti Maniapoto

    He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Transport Minister thanks outgoing CAA Chair

    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Test for Customary Marine Title being restored

    The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says.  “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Opposition united in bad faith over ECE sector review

    Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet.  “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kiwis having their say on first regulatory review

    After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks.  “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government upgrading Lower North Island commuter rail

    The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government moves to ensure flood protection for Wairoa

    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • PM speech to Parliament – Royal Commission of Inquiry’s Report into Abuse in Care

    Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care.  At the heart of this report are the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government acknowledges torture at Lake Alice

    For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government acknowledges courageous abuse survivors

    The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Half a million people use tax calculator

    With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis.  “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Paid Parental Leave improvements pass first reading

    Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Rebuilding the economy through better regulation

    Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • ‘Open banking’ and ‘open electricity’ on the way

    New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Charity lotteries to be permitted to operate online

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Accelerating Northland Expressway

    The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Sir Don to travel to Viet Nam as special envoy

    Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced.    “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Grant Illingworth KC appointed as transitional Commissioner to Royal Commission

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024.  “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ to advance relationships with ASEAN partners

    Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane.    “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says.   “This will be our third visit to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Backing mental health services on the West Coast

    Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ support for sustainable Pacific fisheries

    New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Students’ needs at centre of new charter school adjustments

    Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Commissioner replaces Health NZ Board

    In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today.  “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister to speak at Australian Space Forum

    Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum.  While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation.  “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend climate action meeting in China

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan.  “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Oceans and Fisheries Minister to Solomons

    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Government launches Military Style Academy Pilot

    The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Nine priority bridge replacements to get underway

    The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Update on global IT outage

    Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand, Japan renew Pacific partnership

    New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says.    “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New infrastructure energises BOP forestry towns

    New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 'Pacific Futures'

    President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests.    Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone.    Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-07-27T01:14:59+00:00