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TheY aRe onlY aSKing qUestiOns

Written By: - Date published: 8:32 am, August 13th, 2020 - 112 comments
Categories: covid-19, Gerry Brownlee, jacinda ardern, Judith Collins, national, same old national - Tags: , ,

Yesterday was a remarkable day.

Deputy Leader of the National Party Gerry Brownlee posed a series of questions suggesting a wide based and interesting conspiracy theory involving the Government and the Ministry of Health and all of the Health Boards suppressing news of community spread of Covid 19 for political advantage.

He talked about the messaging the Government has engaged in warning about a possible second outbreak, the emphasis on mask wearing by Dr Bloomfield, the visit by the Prime Minister to a mask factory two days ago, and Bloomfield having a test himself.  Brownlee was then asked what he was saying.  His response was that he was just “outlining facts”.

This is a conspiracy theory that bizarre that Donald Trump would have trouble following it.

Many on twitter disapproved of his behaviour.  Like David Farrier.

Neale Jones had this explanation.

Jacinda’s response was typical Jacinda, she said the suggestion was nonsense.  From Justin Giovannetti at the Spinoff:

“The idea we would do that is nonsense,” she said this afternoon in the Beehive. “If I could ask the energy of the opposition to be channelled into anything right now it would be supporting New Zealand’s overall response to this resurgence.”

At the same time that National was accusing Ardern and the Government of engaging in the most extreme cynical and obscene abuse of power ever witnessed in the country it was also demanding to be consulted on decisions and that it should be involved in cabinet decisions before the election.

There are a few reasons why this is a crazy idea.  The first is that when you are facing a global pandemic your decision making has to be fast.  WHO director Michael Ryan put it in these terms:

Can you imagine what would happen to decision making if consultation, discussion, and no doubt negotiation with the opposition had to occur every time a decision was taken?

The second is that the proposition misrepresents the reality. National suggested that because the Government is in caretaker mode the requirement to consult arises.  But again this is crazy.  There is no convention that in the face of a pandemic the Government does nothing because it may give them a political advantage.  What utter bollocks.  But don’t take it from me.  Dr Dean Knight thinks so as well.

Should the Government “do the right thing” and involve National in decision making?  Well there are a few reasons why this is a very silly, some would say crazy, idea.  Like:

  • A National MP leaking confidential medical information about returning kiwis with Covid in an attempt to justify his frankly fear mongering racist statements.
  • National’s Health spokesperson attacked the Government over the leaking of this information even though it transpired that the information was leaked by a senior National Party figure to a National MP.
  • National’s same Health spokesperson repeatedly claiming that a homeless person snuck into a quarantine centre and lived it up for two weeks.  A subsequent investigation showed the claim to be false.
  • Brownlee’s bizarre conspiracy theory musings.  It is one thing to think these things, but to air them live on national television shows a complete lack of respect.
  • Criticising the Government over the border for being not careful enough, too careful, not careful enough, too careful …
  • Continuous sniping at Ashley Bloomfield.
  • Apparent leaking of confidential briefings.

Basically National has been prepared to trash the country’s response to Covid 19 for political advantage.  Why would you involve them in decision making in the light of what they have done.

And they are demanding that the election is deferred.  I wonder if their position would be the same if they were surging up the polls and seemingly poised to take office.  Some how I think not.

Their minions are engaged in Trumpian attacks on postal voting.

If postal voting is that insecure then there must be lots of evidence over the past few decades of local government elections.  Of course there is not.  The claim is bollocks.

Don’t get me wrong.  I am in full support of a properly functioning democracy and an effective opposition asking tough questions.  But in the middle of a global pandemic facing a virus that is easily spread and which will potentially kill many and overwhelm our health system decision making has to be fast.  As said by Dr Ryan speed trumps perfection.  Having to engage in National’s conspiracy based rhetoric would take away important head space and time.  National should be ignored.

112 comments on “TheY aRe onlY aSKing qUestiOns ”

  1. Visubversa 1

    "Just asking questions" – Known as "JAQing off". Technique beloved of holocaust deniers and other trollish pond scum.

  2. Grant Insley 2

    Just a small point buddy: "Criticising the Government over the boarder for being not careful enough, too careful, not careful enough, too careful …"

    Should be charging that boarder more rent then?

    [Thanks Grant will correct. I normally change this … MS]

  3. Robert Guyton 3

    What ever it takes…

    • vto 3.1

      Yep, that is the cry of the hard core capitalist in full flight

      Pity it doesn't reflect reality.

      There is very little in the world which should be pursued no matter what other consequences there are, and the fact that the hard core right espouse this so readily shows up their moral failings completely. It also leads to shitting on other people, which they clearly don't care about.

      People who espouse this should never be let near the levers of power

    • left_forward 3.2

      Is this astonishing behaviour of the Gnat justified, because hey, all is fair in love and war, the ends justify the means, & etc?

      I’m looking forward to seeing what the electorate thinks of such outworn bullshit.

  4. Reality 4

    Over the last few weeks National has got ever more weird and awful, and one assumes that surely any day they will get it together and perform with some level of competence. But, no, each day it's still desperate and nasty.

    • vto 4.1

      I think you're seeing this, Mr Reality, because the reality is that Collins is actually quite useless. She has been completely uninspiring and seems to stutter and mumble with no major coherent philosophy backing her brain up. It has all been quite poor on her part so far. She is useless.

      Keep her leader of the Nats I say

      • Treetop 4.1.1

        Pointing out a problem is one thing. Fixing it is another matter.

        Hopefully Nat voters are switched on to this.

    • William 4.2

      I'm not sure Judith has thought through the ramifications of wanting to delay the election. That's several more months of being leader with a caucus full of members who just want to retire, who never previously supported her, and are increasingly disturbed by her current nonsense. Extra time to sharpen the knives and vote for another leadership change!

      • Patricia 2 4.2.1

        I am happy for the next election to be delayed. November 2023 sounds about right. After all – the people have spoken. All the recent polls have been fairly definitive and consistent so let's save the country some money and delay the election.

  5. Pat 5

    Gerry being Gerry…..something anyone from Canterbury will recognise.

    He should have FO then.

  6. observer 6

    I'm not one of those who thinks "all Nats = all bad". I know there are some decent people in that party. Now would be a good time for them to find their voices.

    Their party is self-destructing, simply because two leaders who have no future don't care about anybody else's. The Nats who do have a future should reflect on that.

    • swordfish 6.1

      .

      simply because two leaders who have no future don’t care about anybody else’s

      Well, I for one think it's great that Joan & Jackie Collins' baby sister is finally achieving the kind of Celeb notoriety long enjoyed by her older siblings.

    • Treetop 6.2

      I think it is a matter of just going through the motions for the respectable Nat MPs.

    • /agreed. I was thinking/saying that a while back, though I've never voted for any of them. There are still a few principled gNatz around, but I'm starting to think they have probably come to the conclusion that most of the current gNat crop are really a lost cause. Probably better to let them crash an burn and maybe create something new later on when they'll be able to distance themselves from the dross that's left at the moment

  7. RosieLee 7

    Is the Epidemic Response Committee still operating? Is Simon Bridges still on it? So, were the Nats not a part of the response planning?

  8. Stuart Munro 8

    It's a function of their desperation and unfitness to govern. I'm disposed to believe it is in fact a joined-up approach with the arrant lunacy circulated by Billy TK, who is suddenly supported by JLR.

    JLR would quite like to return to the fold and National are acutely aware of their lack of talent. But he can be quite useful while he is at least publicly disassociated from National – he can provide the circuit-breaker facility that Whaleoil once did – carrying out dirty politics without publicly tarnishing National's image. The failure to release the National funding data he had promised is consistent with this being, for him, an opportunity for rehabilitation.

    'Sticking it to the man' is a narrative that resonates with the disempowered, and the wilder stuff that Billy TK circulates, the more followers he gets. The averagely educated punter is not especially aware of disinformatsia campaigns, or how and why they were used against Hillary Clinton.

  9. Treetop 9

    Collins is so adversarial. She wants instant answers and they need to be correct because if not she will then criticise the answer and exploit the answer to the maximum. She should be called TWISTER.

    Just heard Hill on RNZ interviewing Collins, Hill at her best.

  10. Oh, dear. Judith Collins really should know better than to try and best Kim Hill.

    Audio here.

    • Stephen D 11.1

      Just listened to the Kim Hill interview. She is relentless sometimes. But give Judith her due. There was no backing down, in fact she doubled down as is her wont.

      Judith came accros whiny and piqued cos the Prime Minister won't let her or her friend Shane into the sandpit. And my friend knows more than your friend, so there!

      • OnceWasTim 11.1.1

        Give Jude her due? That's because she realises she's got f**k all other options.

        Without saying what I really think, or letting rip (thanks to @Incognito's tacit direction and remarkable stewardship), the behaviour and images of rodents when they're cornered springs to my twisted mind. As for Collins – she really is quite ugly

    • Pat 11.2

      Election date needs to be 19/9/2020 and goodbye JC

  11. adam 12

    WOW just scummy politics from our tories.

    Conspiracy theories like this just add to paranoia and fear. They have no other purpose except to poison the waters. All this crap does is make people who feel uncomfortable about politics at the best of times, react worse. And as others have noted, that can have dire outcomes as the US has proven.

    It's not like it's hard to be in opposition, if you actually do your job. Rather than act like two year olds who think they should be in charge.

    • mpledger 12.1

      NZ may have been safe for 102 day but outside out borders the risk of catching covid-19 has never been higher – that was why the govt was continuing to talk about the risks and mitigations – not that they knew that anyone had the disease here but that the probability of the disease arriving at our boarders was continually increasing.

      So many countries who had their first wave almost under control are now going through second waves as bad as their first (Spain, Japan). And Brazil, India, America are still huge messes with their first waves.

  12. Brian Tregaskin 13

    My advise

    1:-Do not engage or fall for any ruse by National between now and Sept 19, do so at your peril . (Remember Judith is not PM and cannot change the rules in her party favour , so use that)

    2:-Win the election and take National out NOW because they will regroup and be strong again. Each day the election is delayed some unknown event may occur

    3:-Do not cave into into any pressure from MSM Duncan,Tova, Heather in particular. They need to understand the word NO

  13. weka 14

    this idea that the govt should consult with the opposition, is there any reason that should be National?

  14. ianmac 15

    I know that many Nat supporters are decent people. How will they respond to the Collins/Brownlee Spiteful Performance?

    Applaud? Support? Object? Complain? Not vote National? Not vote? Vote Act? Vote Labour? Vote Green?

    • weka 15.1

      yep. Many will be seriously fucked off.

    • Anne 15.2

      Not vote.

      They won't kick up a song and dance. Not in public anyway.

    • greywarshark 15.3

      What's the opposite of 'decent' – indecent? People who keep voting National need a different adjective than decent. They are people who are pretty comfortable with the way things are as long as they are doing okay.

      So what is the word for that. Apathetic, myopic, disinterested; google supercilious meaning, and there are numerous synonyms that provide the right shade of meaning.

  15. weka 16

    If anyone knew about how to do election fraud in NZ it would be DPF.

    It does remind me that in the US 45 accuses others of what he is planning to do. I doubt that even National have gone down that track, but the Trumpian shit they're pulling this week makes me think that they will eventually.

    I hope what Brownlee did yesterday drops them below 20%.

    • Anne 16.1

      … in the US 45 accuses others of what he is planning to do. I doubt that even National have gone down that track, but the Trumpian shit they're pulling this week makes me think that they will eventually.

      Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a bully may project their own feelings of vulnerability onto the target. It incorporates blame shifting and can manifest as shame dumping.

      Wikpedia.

      It's my view that is exactly what National is doing because they know how easy it is to fool people. Any individual who has been on the receiving end of such behaviour can attest to that.

      • Incognito 16.1.1

        In Jungian terms, it is about denying/suppressing your Shadow, which needs to be integrated rather.

        • Sacha 16.1.1.1

          Collins by now would be beyond even years on a couch.

        • Anne 16.1.1.2

          According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to psychological projection, in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognized as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else.

          Since I didn't know what a Jungian Shadow was, I put it here for others as ignorant as me 😉

          That would seem a good description of Brownlee's current behaviour.

        • weka 16.1.1.3

          interesting thought regarding NZ.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 16.1.1.4

          Collins needs to suppress her left eyebrow – it's trying to escape.
          Just joking – or am I wink

    • Tricledrown 16.2

      National may need to consult the archbishop of Florida for more Trump wisdom.

    • mpledger 16.3

      Yea, internet voting is way less secure than mail voting but National voters are more likely to have the means to internet vote than Labour supporters – I assume that's why it has greater preference.

      • Sacha 16.3.1

        Or because underhand Nat cronies like Farrar know they can get help tampering with online voting more easily than with postal. Or use that possibility to undermine legitimacy afterwards, disclaiming any previous tweets to the contrary.

  16. Peter 17

    They want the hard questions answered? Warm up with a few easies.

    1 Mrs Collins, do you think your scummy tactics will succeed in getting your party over the 30% threshold?

    2 Mrs Collins, did you pick Gerry Brownlee as the deputy because you know he's such a doofus he could not seriously challenge you?

    3 Mrs Collins, how many polls is it going to take where your party is under the 35% mark do there have to be before you do what you said you would do and resign ?

    4 Does your party polling under the 35% mark mean nothing in terms of resigning now because you know there is no-one capable of doing the job?

    5 When you go to the airport with Gerry, given your record of 'getting lost' and going in the totally different direction, on the wrong day for the wrong occasion, do you let him navigate?

    6 When you go to the airport with Gerry, given his record of going the wrong way and pretending he's right, and his predilection to get ambushed by a lolly shop, do you show him the way?

  17. greywarshark 18

    Luke Malpass as new Political Editor of stuff. This morning he or the subeditor, captions editor of The Press have the heading – 'A Massive Hit to our Confidence'.

    He states the present state of covid-19 controls and says:

    all Kiwis are starting to feel a pit at the bottom of their stomachs – we thought this was over.

    Incorrect, he can't speak for all Kiwis, perhaps a few that he knows of a certain youthful age, so that's just hyperbole. Any journo writing a pop piece could write that.

    Online what appears to be the same piece has a different heading as in the link: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122430036/election-2020-people-care-about-jobs-and-safety-not-election-dates

    He does refer to the the Covid-19 rampaging in the rest of the world. And that this situation is causing pressure on our borders. Then sounds caution about government policies by saying – ...until the election, at least – elimination remains the key….[It is} the most popular policy with the public..to come out against it…would be hosed at this election. After the election, the conversation will most probably be very different.

    Then he refers wisely to the difficulties that a series of lockdowns would bring, with the country in stasis not knowing the next best move.

    Further, he says there is the concern of our health system not being able to cope with an influx. He sounds negative with Elimination and being Covid-free has now morphed into a point of national pride and an end in itself.

    It seems to me that thinking people realise it is a step on the way to containing the virus enabling further steps to be planned. Others though have fallen into their usual patterns of self-satisfaction and taking the country's systems for granted, probably in the younger age group. Indeed yesterday there was a report of German young people partying high in a train carriage which is against their regulations.

    Then comment about Judith Collins wanting the election date pushed forward, and he refers to PM Ardern's rescheduled dissolution of Parliament until the weekend, and if the lockdown goes past the weekend then a delay would counter Collins' attempts to deligitimise the election.

    But he thinks that the Covid-19 actions by the government are actually in line with what National actually thinks, and that the public also agree, being aware of the importance of having normal life resuming, eg schools and businesses. National fussing about the election date is not likely to register as a primary concern with voters in his opinion.

    He seems to have presented a balanced report. I think it is the heading that I dislike – it implies that we hadn't been aware of the strong possibility of a flare-up, and that the public weren't aware of Victoria's problems, apart from those in most other countries in the world. Only a few of us are that uninformed and presumably they have not been reading 'stuff'.

    But I think the point about the election date will be; if we are in lockdown as a whole or even part of NZ, then that interferes with our traditional ability to go freely to a polling booth and vote. We need to ensure that everyone who wants to vote can, and in a way that enables reasonably privacy (some rest homes have to help I think). Going fully on-line is not satisfactory when the entire process is scrutinised; too many rorts can be hidden. Perhaps a mixture of methods will get us through this election which must be one of the more difficult ones in our history.

  18. Sacha 19

    From a constitutional law lecturer:

    • Chris 19.1

      Genuine consultation means there's a potential for different outcomes. What value does Collins think her input can add? Less stringent lockdown levels? Business as usual? A declaration news about the virus is a hoax? FFS, what does she want? A grand fucking coalition?

  19. ianmac 20

    But he thinks that the Covid-19 actions by the government are actually in line with what National actually thinks, and that the public also agree, being aware of the importance of having normal life resuming, eg schools and businesses.

    In line with the bad publicity that Collins/Brownlee received for their "point of views", you would wonder what their game plan is.

    • tc 20.1

      Pretty sure it's a copy paste from the maga/trumpian songbook, catchy rhetoric combined with those dog whistling melodies. 20 solid gold conspiracy classics, the NZ mix.
      Anything but actual policy.

  20. mauī 22

    A lot of interesting conspiracies out there… Mark Taylor says we could be going back to the days where we use our phones… only as phones. Food for thought…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=640&v=OajCOJ1De7o&feature=emb_logo

  21. Adrian 23

    I like running scenarios in my head because I enjoy reading well written thrillers and my day job gives me far too much time to do so.

    Scenarios like “ How would you….? “, and this is a very good example of how you would introduce from offshore the virus if you were , say, an extreme righty wanting to help win an unwinnable election.
    But I think this one will be found to have a more prosaic cause than a deliberately chosen packet of frozen peas from Melbourne.
    Just saying…sarc!

    • weka 23.1

      can't see how an outbreak in NZ would help the right here, given the high regard for Ardern, Bloomfield and the govt's handling of covid this year. That's a plot hole right there 😉

  22. Grumpy 24

    ….and of course the Government, both the politicians and the civil servants would never bullshit us about flu vaccine and PPE availability……?

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/1-news-investigation-emails-reveal-ministrys-flu-vaccine-shortage-worries-despite-opposite-message-public

    • weka 24.1

      I'd probably go with incompetency and system failures rather than conspiracy.

      • Poission 24.1.1

        Incompetency reflects on the person (and systems) in place.If the genome sequencing from the index case tracks back to a quarantine case,significant questions do arise.

        17 cases now,questions arise do we shut down the international borders,interisland travel ban? state of local emergency?

        • weka 24.1.1.1

          I'm guessing L4 soon. Hopefully region by region, but do whatever we need to. The Aucklanders who flew to Queenstown for a long weekend can spend the lock down there.

      • Grumpy 24.1.2

        Maybe but how many times did the politicians stand before the media and assure us there was plenty of vaccine when their own staff were telling them there was not.

        In fact, the majority of the public knew from first hand experience there was a shortage and the media straight out refused to do their job!

        • Sacha 24.1.2.1

          True, it did not help public confidence. They still have not apologised for what they put home-based support workers and clients through.

          • Sacha 24.1.2.1.1

            Both PPE and flu vaccine were examples of a fragmented system with no overall control. Needs to be fixed properly by the next govt.

          • Grumpy 24.1.2.1.2

            Everybody knew there was a problem but the media point blank refused to do their job. Nothing has changed.

            • Sacha 24.1.2.1.2.1

              To be fair, media were getting that same conflicting reports as politicians were from local vs national agencies. And most of either did not have the contextual knowledge to recognise that's what the problem was.

              Those of us who could see it have no influence with agencies, politicians or media. Broken system.

        • mpledger 24.1.2.2

          It's not altogether fair about the vaccine – due to covid-19 there was an early and unprecedented run on the vaccine and in the majority of places there was more than enough. From memory (a rather old memory TBH), there were an extra 500,000 vaccinations this year compared to 2019.

  23. aj 25

    I think Judith and Gerry really missed out linking this to their overall theory

    2nd Aug 2020

    "Coronavirus: Government selects Rotorua for 'CovidCard' contact tracing technology trial"

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/coronavirus-government-selects-rotorua-for-covidcard-contact-tracing-technology-trial.html

    I mean, it's just obvious this was planned down to last detail /sarc

    • Sacha 25.1

      zing!

    • mac1 25.2

      I think Gerry ran out of string to connect the facts as he'd used most of it to construct a rope with which to hang himself electorally.

      Certainly, the media would not appreciate being used in this way- fed such pap as if it were credible.

      What would be going through their minds as they listened to his gerrywanderings?

      • greywarshark 25.2.1

        Now's the time for John Cleese to market some stringets to knit together for advancing the National cause. National actually needs Monty Python’s vitality of ideas!

        • mac1 25.2.1.1

          Gerry's fact-proof porky-pie unsavouries, as distributed in political press conferences; mass-produced. high carbs with added di-hydrogen oxide, hard to swallow and indigestible, Gerry's unsavouries can be easily strung together in non-factual outpourings that will pass the POOP test, (Public/Outdoors/One Party).

  24. Jack 26

    Like Gerry. I would like to outline some facts. This morning the sun came up just after 7:00am. By 8:00am the days temperature rose about 1 degree. Unlike Gerry's facts I like to believe these facts are somehow related.

    How much does that guy earn?

  25. Here's one for gabby:

    [deleted]

    [please stop with the body shaming stuff – weka]

  26. Sacha 28

    Genius reviews of the 1pm daily briefing: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12511606/reviews

    I love the two main actors but not a fan of some of "the villain reporters".. some of those "questions" are absolutely inane. As if any smart journalist would ask dumb questions like that. "Should we inject ourselves with disinfectant"? in season 1 seriously!! I almost stoped watching…. I think the script writers need to take a good hard look at themselves. Almost as bad as the guy who plays the President in that awful American show.

    and

    Sometimes you think you know where the series is going but then BOOM a whole new alert level. The subtle humour and the smirks about the conspiracy theory backstories are classic. Best duo since Mulder and Scully.

    and many more..

  27. Brian Tregaskin 29

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/winston-peters-blasts-judith-collins-for-spreading-steady-stream-of-misinformation-over-covid-19-response.html

    "New Zealanders are sadly being fed a steady stream of misinformation about the pre-election period from the National Party. Its effect is to sow doubt about the legitimacy of the current Government as it focuses solely on protecting the health of New Zealanders."

    He said the current Government continues to have full powers to govern until the election.

    "The 'caretaker convention' does not apply in the pre-election period. It only commences post-election, up to and until there is either confirmation of the old Government or a new one," Peters said.

    "Therefore, Judith Collins and the National Party are sadly misrepresenting the constitutional position to the public."

    Amazing summary by Winston
    Im wondering whether National Party will dispute the 2020 Election results -what do you think? If so how do you declare an election result invalid if you lose, and how do you swing circumstances your way until you can win and seize power ?
    So do you think National will tell its members not to vote on Sept 19 to start the ball rolling?
    Nightmare scenario of course to the NZ public.

  28. Draco T Bastard 30

    Basically National has been prepared to trash the country’s response to Covid 19 for political advantage. Why would you involve them in decision making in the light of what they have done.

    Considering what they've done for political advantage why are we not throwing the whole lot of them in jail?

    What they've done is actually treason:

    the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

    • Stunned Mullet 30.1

      🙄

      • Draco T Bastard 30.1.1

        You don't think that endangering the people of a nation for their own power and profit is the very definition of treachery?

    • solkta 30.2

      That is not the legal definition and i'm sure you know that. Do yourself a favour and leave that nonsense for Ed.

      • Draco T Bastard 30.2.1

        That is not the legal definition and i'm sure you know that.

        Just because it is legal does not mean that it is right.

        Which, IMO, is actually the whole point of the post. The way that National are acting is not right and is, in fact, completely immoral and unethical.

        There are limits to freedom usually around endangering others and I'd put endangering millions of people would be right up there in the do not allow list.

        So, why does our legal system allow such behaviour?

        • solkta 30.2.1.1

          Just because it is legal does not mean that it is right.

          That is true, but you said it was "actually treason".

          So, why does our legal system allow such behaviour?

          Because otherwise we would end up with the kind of society that Ed favours where people like climate denialists are sent to re-education work camps.

          • Draco T Bastard 30.2.1.1.1

            but you said it was "actually treason".

            Yes, it seems that problems occur when the legal definition doesn't meet the dictionary definition.

            Perhaps perfidy may have been better:

            1. deliberate breach of faith or trust; faithlessness; treachery: perfidy that goes unpunished.
            2. an act or instance of faithlessness or treachery.

            It does still have that annoying treachery definition, though.

            Because otherwise we would end up with the kind of society that Ed favours where people like climate denialists are sent to re-education work camps.

            That would imply that leaving treacherous individuals running around causing untold damage is better.

            • solkta 30.2.1.1.1.1

              That would imply that leaving treacherous individuals running around causing untold damage is better.

              That would imply that you are advocating for forced labour camps.

              • Sacha

                Wouldn't get much out of Collins.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Changing the subject is what those who have no answers do.

                And, no, I'm not advocating for forced labour camps but a society cannot survive if we allow those in power to act as National does.

                • solkta

                  I didn't change the subject. This started by you saying the actions discussed were treason. Then you back tracked from that but said they should be a criminal offence. I said that that would lead to the kind of society that had re-education work camps and you, rather than say i was wrong, implied that that would be better. Anyway, have a good day.

  29. AB 31

    The soundproofing has come off the National Party and we can hear how barking mad they are on the inside. They need a JK back to smother the sound with shrugs, oily smiles and reckons.

  30. Cinny 32

    Our local body elections are decided by postal voting, has dpf and judith ever spoken out against that?

  31. NZJester 33

    National should be ignored.

    Wise words to live by. If only more people would follow them. ;-p

  32. georgecom 34

    Collins wants to be consulted

    Right, stop leaking information and blaming the government for it, stop inferring that there is a conspiracy and cover up, and maybe you might Judith. But whilst your party acts like petulant little children you are showing you are not ready for that responsibility.

  33. Tricledrown 35

    Collins making a bigger idiot saying people need more notification before moving up levels.

    Covid doesn't care the quicker the lockdown the less time for spreading.

    How dumb is Collins

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 35.1

      Well…Boag and Covid…#19. Kinda wonder, is it Obtuse? Mischievous? Or…

  34. George 36

    Just listened ..yes belatedly to Kim and Judith interview. I haven't read all the comments but there is NO way I can imagine the current government would be willing to hand any kind of health information over to the collaboration of leaky colanders that is the national party after recent events. Judith Collins can think on… is she trying to be funny?

  35. JustMe 37

    I have completely switched off listening to anything National says. They have become too toxic and negative and it's all too much now.

    And so whenever the Minister of Pies and Running Late for a Plane makes a comment or is on the telly I switch off the sound. The same applies to the I am so perfect Judith Collins and of course ALL the other National MPs eg Nick Smith, Michael Woodhouse, Shane Reti etc.

    I have come to the conclusion that National MPs are Empty Vessels. That is they lack Compassion, Caring and Empathy. They are all too eager to resort to tit-for-tat negative statements that shows they would never ever get my vote at the upcoming election or the following elections into the future.

    They are now dabbling in conspiracy theories which to me sounds like a typical American Import. Mind you National have always been expert at Copying and Pasting things from their beloved America.

    If National and its MPs truly want to be in government without the need for vindictiveness on their part 24/7 then they need to be rid of those in their Party that have ulterior motives eg get even with all those people they deemed have wronged them in the past. But that would mean removing Judith Collins from Leader.

  36. Reality 38

    JustMe, mute button getting plenty of use for me also. Whatever they say is so likely to be said with malice, sarcasm, sneer, etc etc.

    While politics is not a place of peace and love, and all involved are all too human on occasions, National has in recent years attracted lots of very flawed, nasty individuals, including their Mervs and Michelles. In the past they had some decent, normal people in their ranks.

  37. karol121 39

    Suggestion is Judith, until it is no longer.

    Don't hang up.

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