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Daily review 02/06/2022

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, June 2nd, 2022 - 87 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

87 comments on “Daily review 02/06/2022 ”

  1. SPC 1
    2 June 2022 at 6:20 pm

    While two actors who play fictional characters were involved in a real life court room drama, two real life human beings (played by Rhys Darby and Taika Waititi) have researched and reprised the lives of two other human beings (a pirate and his intern – and added extras for seasoning.

    Our Flag Means Death's gentle sensibility doesn't quite strike comedic gold

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/our_flag_means_death/s01

    It seems they tried to make the relationship work and neglected their piracy.

    OUR FLAG MEANS (unto) DEATH (an at sea remake of 4 weddings and a funeral)

    https://twitter.com/hbomax/status/1532044303538827264

    Reply
    • joe90 1.1
      2 June 2022 at 7:04 pm

      I found the first three or four episodes distinctly unfunny. Then Waititi turned up and while I'm still not a huge fan, it does get funnier by the episode.

      However, some absolutely adore it so perhaps I'm not the target audience.

      So when I realized that Our Flag Means Death is actually telling the queer story it felt like it’s telling—fully, and tenderly—it was like the world cracked open in the best way.

      It’s mindblowing, dizzying really. Many queer fans of Our Flag Means Death finished the show in a state of shock that most of us haven’t yet left. It feels deeply cathartic and genuinely freeing. There’s this sense of astonished relief, of unfamiliar energy, from not having to bend over backwards for fucking once.

      https://www.tor.com/2022/04/25/act-of-grace-masculinity-monstrosity-and-queer-catharsis-in-our-flag-means-death/

      Reply
  2. weka 2
    2 June 2022 at 6:46 pm

    Omicron continues to circulate in the community and open borders will bring new COVID-19 variants, flu, and other infectious illnesses, putting additional pressure on the entire health system including GP practices, pharmacies, community health clinics, emergency ambulances as well as emergency departments.

    https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/news-items/kiwis-urged-look-after-themselves-and-alleviate-pressure-health-system-winter

    Being honest about it all is useful I guess. Shall we hope that the whole country has peaked with Omicron and recovered enough before the borders open?

    Reply
    • Poission 2.1
      2 June 2022 at 6:53 pm

      Most hospitals going to code black( suspended operations) lots of staff off with Covid,3 variants of Omicron in circulation,2 types of Influenza,RV,and a very high excess death rate.

      https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-average-baseline?country=NZL~AUS

      Reply
      • weka 2.1.1
        2 June 2022 at 7:09 pm

        hospitals are already at code black, or that is what will happen over winter once the borders open?

        Reply
        • Poission 2.1.1.1
          2 June 2022 at 7:34 pm

          Hospitals are limited with staff shortages now,and overloaded AE.One was reporting they had 200 off per day.Winter who knows?

          Reply
    • aj 2.2
      2 June 2022 at 7:29 pm

      Also this (after approx 2mins 38s) I won’t link to it but insert this into twitter . .
      questCNN/status/1530280196166787074

      Reply
    • joe90 2.3
      2 June 2022 at 7:33 pm

      There's an awful lot of people not taking it seriously.

      Lab employee told me about someone who turned up sniffing and snuffling having bull-shited their way through the entry interview and ditched the mask they'ed been given to wear. They admitted that they thought it was a good time to get bloods done while they were off work with covid.

      My brother's had obviously ill staff turn up to work because they were bored at home. Mate working on an orchard packed up and went home because his employer was encouraging staff to turn up ill or not.

      A long-time friend is 60, un-vaccinated, seriously over weight, likely pre-diabetic, and he’s decided that it's just a flu and runs around without a care in the world.

      People are getting ill, not bothering to report it and sweating it out and anecdotally, reinfections are occurring, too.

      Reply
      • pat 2.3.1
        2 June 2022 at 8:00 pm

        What are you supposed to do Joe?..i had all the classic symptoms of covid and took 2 days off work…did RAT tests every day and tested negative so went back to work….mind you most of the listed covid symptoms Ive had for years.

        Reply
        • joe90 2.3.1.1
          2 June 2022 at 8:25 pm

          What are you supposed to do Joe?.

          Don't knowingly risk infecting your workmates?

          Reply
          • pat 2.3.1.1.1
            2 June 2022 at 8:43 pm

            Knowingly is a loaded term….I have the symptoms but test negative, and we know that the tests are unreliable and that there are asymptomatic cases, does everyone place their lives on hold on the off chance?

            Reply
            • joe90 2.3.1.1.1.1
              2 June 2022 at 8:58 pm

              You can be symptomatic and return a negative test. You can be symptomatic and you may not be infectious but close contact with others when you're symptomatic is punting with other people's health.

              Reply
              • pat …
                2 June 2022 at 9:06 pm

                All very interesting but dosnt answer the question

                Reply
                • joe90 …
                  2 June 2022 at 9:13 pm

                  An off chance that you might knowingly or otherwise infect someone with a potentially fatal disease is a pretty damn good reason to place your life on hold for long enough to ensure that you're not infectious.

                  Reply
                  • pat …
                    2 June 2022 at 9:31 pm

                    How long is long enough Joe?…a week? a month?….as said the symptoms are ubiquitous and the test unreliable.

                    Reply
                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 9:38 pm

                      would you go to work while you have symptoms if work didn't need you to and you could financially afford not to?

                    • joe90 …
                      2 June 2022 at 9:46 pm

                      I read it as you're likely infectious a couple of days before symptom onset to between 3 and 10 days after symptom onset. So when you're no longer symptomatic is the obvious answer.

                      Or in an ideal world, a clear PCR test prior to returning to work.

                  • pat …
                    2 June 2022 at 9:45 pm

                    COVID-19 affects different people in different ways. Most infected people will develop mild to moderate illness and recover without hospitalization.

                    Most common symptoms:

                    fever

                    cough

                    tiredness

                    loss of taste or smell

                    Less common symptoms:

                    sore throat

                    headache

                    aches and pains

                    diarrhoea

                    a rash on skin, or discolouration of fingers or toes

                    red or irritated eyes

                    https://covid19.govt.nz/prepare-and-stay-safe/about-covid-19/covid-19-symptoms/#covid-19-symptoms

                    Reply
            • weka 2.3.1.1.1.2
              2 June 2022 at 8:59 pm

              we should by now be moving to a place where no-one has to go to work if they have respiratory symptoms. I'm talking concept and cultural practice rather than perfection. That people have to work when unwell is not a good thing, without even thinking about covid.

              Reply
              • Belladonna …
                2 June 2022 at 9:07 pm

                That's true. And, if you work in an environment where you have the capacity to work from home, then it's achievable.
                [Our workplace does. And this is required, not optional – your manager will send you home, if you turn up to work obviously sick]

                But. And it's a big But. Lots of workplaces simply don't have this option of remote working. You either have to take sick or annual leave – and people run through that darn quickly (especially if they also have kids who are not able to attend school with even the most minor of sniffles); or you have to work through (taking symptom suppressant medication, and trying to stay under the H&S radar).

                Note that this particularly impacts on women – who by and large (and yes there are exceptions) are the ones taking sick leave to look after family members.

                Companies are also looking at employee productivity. And someone with a history of taking a lot of sick leave, won't be the one getting the pay rise or promotion (unless they have unique skills to compensate).

                Reply
                • weka …
                  2 June 2022 at 9:13 pm

                  yes, we need to change the culture and policy/law so that people don't have to go to work sick. Start with the easy workplaces and work from there. I'd go with universities etc soon too, we already have much of the infrastructure in place but it could be improved.

                  Reply
                  • Incognito …
                    2 June 2022 at 9:23 pm

                    Last year Government increased the minimum sick leave entitlement from 5 to 10 days.

                    I don’t get your comment re. universities though.

                    Reply
                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 9:35 pm

                      Unis etc are good places to make the cultural change. Set up the tech of learning so that people don't have to come in and sit in a lecture theatre and infect others if they are sick. By tech I mean ICT but also the cultural tech of learning. How to make it effective and fun.

                    • Incognito []
                      2 June 2022 at 9:55 pm

                      Yup, almost everything at uni is online too, but whether it is fun … Flu shots are free for staff.

                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 9:36 pm

                      Ten days. How many people who get covid this year will need more than that for all sicknesses?

                    • Incognito []
                      2 June 2022 at 10:02 pm

                      10 days is the minimum entitlement and employees can carry over leave (to a point), AFAIK.

                      Indeed, 10 days doesn’t go far if one has Covid-19; self-isolation is yet a whole other issue, but at least there is some support for that: https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/covid-19/leave-support-scheme/index.html

                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 9:57 pm

                      and better ventilation. All the things.

                      I've spent a lot of time online at home on my own due to disability. There are ways to make that enjoyable and ways to make it boring or frustration. People might have to learn some new skills.

                    • Incognito []
                      2 June 2022 at 10:04 pm

                      I hear you. I became a house mouse and the cat loved it! At least one of us enjoyed the working-from-home crap.

                    • Belladonna …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:32 pm

                      "It’s a bit more than recorded lectures. Tutorials and group work also went on-line. Was it effective? I wouldn’t know …"

                      According to the uni students I know (pretty big cross-section of different disciplines) – it was a total disaster.

                      Effective group work online requires a shared culture and trust model – which needs to be established first.
                      It basically doesn't work unless you already have a shared group identity (e.g. a work-based team). You can transition a new person into an existing group, but it's darn hard to establish a remote group who've never worked/met in person.

                      Uni tutorials are the opposite of this (they've never worked together, and are expected to form online working groups for each lecture/subject they study). Not going to happen.

                      Uni-students said that during Covid lockdowns basically no one said anything, people showed up for roll call (to get the credit) then switched off, or (at most) there was one eager-beaver who talked to the tutor.

                    • Incognito []
                      2 June 2022 at 10:46 pm

                      Yeah, I know …

                      A few have dropped out altogether and probably won’t return.

                  • Belladonna …
                    2 June 2022 at 10:10 pm

                    "Unis etc are good places to make the cultural change. Set up the tech of learning so that people don't have to come in and sit in a lecture theatre and infect others if they are sick. By tech I mean ICT but also the cultural tech of learning. How to make it effective and fun."

                    Having several friends with uni-age-and-attending kids during the last couple of years, I can tell you that the online university is a resounding failure in comparison with the in-person experience.

                    Students hated it (apart from those who found it a heaven-sent opportunity to cheat).

                    A large (and crucial) part of a tertiary education is the opportunity to bounce ideas of contemporaries and lecturers – and this simply doesn't work in an online environment. Learning is a gestalt. Not an isolated experience.

                    However, if all you're talking about is the ability to have a lecture recorded, so a sick student can watch it remotely – it's easy to do. The equivalent of borrowing a friend's lecture notes.

                    I doubt it will make much difference. Most students aren't sufficiently motivated to drag themselves off their sick beds, just to go to a lecture. And there are already plenty of accommodations for aegrotat passes if you're truly sick during exams.

                    Reply
                    • Incognito …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:16 pm

                      It’s a bit more than recorded lectures. Tutorials and group work also went on-line. Was it effective? I wouldn’t know …

                  • Belladonna …
                    2 June 2022 at 10:22 pm

                    Sorry, running into a problem with the nested replies

                    Ten days. How many people who get covid this year will need more than that for all sicknesses?

                    I can tell you now, that almost all mothers will need significantly more than that.

                    If I didn't have the capacity to work from home, then I would have already exceeded this, in caring for a sick child, this year alone. And we haven't even had Covid! Or got into the winter cold/flu season.

                    Now that schools won't allow kids to come with even a minor sniffle, I've had to take 2 periods of 1 week away from the office – just for two bouts of an ordinary cold (teen sick, not me). In both cases, according to my eagle-eyed parental mode – he was well enough to learn after the first 2 days, but not allowed to go back to school while still 'snotty'.

                    I have no idea how parents who don't have the WFH option manage. But suspect there are a lot of kids 'home alone' or with grandparents (not ideal from the cross-infection perspective).

                    At work, we have several staff members who are on their 3rd or 4th Covid isolation (large, extended families) as a household contact. At this point, they're just about desperate to actually catch Covid – which means they don't have to isolate for the next 3-4 months, even if they're a household contact.

                    Reply
                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:26 pm

                      Catching covid does not preclude being reinfected nor does it preclude the necessity to isolate (in some peoples view)

                    • Incognito []
                      2 June 2022 at 10:42 pm

                      If you have had COVID-19 in the past 3 months, you do not need to isolate again.

                      https://covid19.govt.nz/testing-and-tracing/contact-tracing/household-contacts/

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:50 pm

                      @ Incognito…perhaps you should explain that to Weka and Joe….and the guy at my place of employment on his second isolation with covid inside 3 months, first case mild second not.

                    • Incognito []
                      2 June 2022 at 10:57 pm

                      Getting Covid-19 twice, especially within a 90-day window is rare, but it can happen.

                      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/covid-19/468169/covid-19-reinfections-not-being-tracked-in-nz-as-examples-tipped-to-rise

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:59 pm

                      Rare and increasing by all appearances

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:04 pm

                      And none of which addresses the problem of expecting isolation in the presence of exceedingly common symptoms of indeterminate cause.

                    • Incognito []
                      2 June 2022 at 11:12 pm

                      If you have symptoms of a contagious (infectious) respiratory disease you stay home. That’s nothing new, but for Covid we now have several lovely test kits to prove it other than going to the GP who looks at you and diagnoses you as having x, y, or z (aka a ‘cold’ or the ‘flu’).

                      If you’re a household contact of a positive Covid case it depends on whether it has been 90 days (3 months) since you had it yourself.

                      This is the current information, subject to change.

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:17 pm

                      "If you have symptoms of a contagious (infectious) respiratory disease you stay home."

                      Again….look at the list of symptoms.

                    • Incognito []
                      2 June 2022 at 11:24 pm

                      I tick one, all the time:

                      Tiredness

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:27 pm

                      I hope you are isolating

                    • Belladonna …
                      3 June 2022 at 7:39 am

                      If you’re a household contact of a positive Covid case it depends on whether it has been 90 days (3 months) since you had it yourself.

                      Yes indeed. The problem is when you are (repeatedly) a household contact, but haven't caught Covid. Of course, you may have had an asymptomatic case, which was missed by the RATs – but that doesn't count.

                      If you have not had Covid in the last 3 months, and are a household contact for someone who has got Covid, you have to isolate. Repeatedly in many cases. As I said, we have staff who are on their 3rd or 4th round of Covid-household-contact isolation – in the last 6 months.

                    • Incognito []
                      3 June 2022 at 8:05 am

                      Although that seems an excessively high number I agree that it would be enormously disruptive. Unfortunately, the signs are the pandemic will have a long fat tail in NZ and plus all the other winter illnesses it will make for a season of more disruption and upheaval. I guess we have to become more resilient, individually and collectively, more tolerant and ‘learn to live with it’.

              • pat …
                2 June 2022 at 9:11 pm

                We have acute staffing shortages as it is…shortages that are causing harm…and you wish to have anyone with respiratory symptoms avoid work?

                Dont worry about climate change….if everyone who has (indeternimate) symptoms ceases work the whole shebang will collapse tomorrow

                And were going to transition to a society that provides all needs without
                the benefit of the multiplying effect of fossil energy?

                Think about it.

                Reply
                • weka …
                  2 June 2022 at 9:20 pm

                  that would be a boon for climate action.

                  But it's not what I meant. I meant that we could be building on our covid experience to develop a culture where people don't have to go to work sick. That's a financial and economic change, but also how we do work. As I just said to Belladonna, start with the easy workplaces and work from there.

                  Also said, it doesn't have to be perfect, to don't let that be the enemy of the good.

                  Reply
                  • pat …
                    2 June 2022 at 9:32 pm

                    It may not have to be perfect, but it sure as hell has to be functional

                    Reply
                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 9:37 pm

                      obviously.

                      The forty hour week is a convention. We don't have it because it's the most effective, we have it because of history. We can change that.

                      Same with the culture around sickness.

                    • Poission …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:40 pm

                      You could make a point for covid and its long term effects to be inflationary in so far as it reduces labour participation,which in turn increases wage growth,etc

                  • pat …
                    2 June 2022 at 9:50 pm

                    We havnt had a 40 hour work week for decades….you havnt addressed either point

                    Reply
                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 9:54 pm

                      I did.

                      We have acute staffing shortages as it is…shortages that are causing harm…and you wish to have anyone with respiratory symptoms avoid work?

                      I said quite clearly that I want us to change work culture so that sick people don't have to go do work. And it doesn't have to be perfect. Nothing about doing that now while we have staff shortages.

                      Dont worry about climate change….if everyone who has (indeternimate) symptoms ceases work the whole shebang will collapse tomorrow

                      Like I said, nothing about doing it today or tomorrow. Maybe you should think about what I am actually saying.

                      And were going to transition to a society that provides all needs without
                      the benefit of the multiplying effect of fossil energy?

                      Supporting people to be healthy will increase our ability to function in a post-carbon world, not decrease it.

                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 9:56 pm

                      because you seem an a rather literal frame of mind. Obviously a truck driver with the end of a cold who feels otherwise fine can go to work and not infect anyone else (wear a mask in the office, wash your hands, etc).

                      These are not hard things to imagine.

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:03 pm

                      "I said quite clearly that I want us to change work culture so that sick people don't have to go do work. And it doesn't have to be perfect. Nothing about doing that now while we have staff shortages."

                      You havnt defined sick…have a look at the list of covid symptoms…half the people I know permanently have at least 2 or 3 of them.

                      "Like I said, nothing about doing it today or tomorrow. Maybe you should think about what I am actually saying."

                      Thats the problem…youre not actually saying anything

                      "Like I said, nothing about doing it today or tomorrow. Maybe you should think about what I am actually saying."

                      Again you say nothing…we are unable to meet our labour requirements (even pre covid) and the demands on labour will only grow as energy declines.

                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:22 pm

                      You havnt defined sick…have a look at the list of covid symptoms…half the people I know permanently have at least 2 or 3 of them.

                      Oh, so you mean too many people don't know how to make that judgement call? My understanding is that viral infections' contagious period is shorter than symptoms.

                      Also, if people have allergies or whatever, there are ways to pay attention and figure this out. A lot of people are already doing this.

                      As I said, it doesn't have to be perfect. Start with the people who have full blown symptoms.

                      "Like I said, nothing about doing it today or tomorrow. Maybe you should think about what I am actually saying."

                      Thats the problem…youre not actually saying anything

                      "Like I said, nothing about doing it today or tomorrow. Maybe you should think about what I am actually saying."

                      Again you say nothing…we are unable to meet our labour requirements (even pre covid) and the demands on labour will only grow as energy declines.

                      You're being so vague that I can't be more specific. I gave you the truck driver examples, and Uni students. You appear to have a believe that these things cannot be solved, whereas I'm more interested in exploring solutions.

                      Lots of jobs will disappear with the climate crisis so I'm not as convinced as you that there will be a shortage of workers. Nevertheless, keeping people healthy will be more important than making people go to work and harming their immune systems. Again, doesn't have to be perfect, I'm talking a cultural change.

                      I think about worker shortages in sectors like fruit picking. There's not an actual shortage of workers though, there's a mistmatch around wages, employment conditions, and the people willing and able to do the work. So unless you say something more than asserting bad things, it's hard to know what you are thinking about.

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:24 pm

                      You carry on thinking Weka

                  • Belladonna …
                    2 June 2022 at 10:02 pm

                    I truly think that the 'easy' workplaces (i.e. the predominantly white collar workers, who can transition in and out of working from home) are already working towards this 'norm'

                    Partly because it pays (spreading sickness across the workforce is counter-productive – when there is a WFH alternative). And partly because the workforce (at least in the current environment) has the power to ask for WFH as an option – and are highly motivated to want it (for at least some of the time)

                    The problem is, that these workplaces are a minority – and, worse, a predominantly white collar elite minority – to which the bureaucrats and decision-makers belong.

                    The majority of workplaces simply don't have a significant WFH component. How do you run a building site, shopping centre, or warehouse with WFH staff? You can't.

                    If you plan on increasing sick leave, so all workers can remain at home (paid) when they have a respiratory infection – then several things will have to happen. Staff numbers will have to increase (and these businesses are already struggling to find staff ATM); and costs of the goods and services will have to increase (to cover the additional staffing costs) – at a time when household budgets are already stretched.

                    I don't think that this is a 'real world' solution.

                    Reply
                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:08 pm

                      Tell the person who delivers your fuel, groceries, builds /repairs your home, fixes your car, drives your public transport, grows/processes your food, cs\ares for your ill or disabled etc to work from home.

                      Blinkered dosnt even begin to describe it.

                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:47 pm

                      Funnily enough, as someone with a disability, like many others I've been at the blunt end of workers getting covid and the system not coping. I support both my caregivers to take time off. I can afford this in the sense that I won't starve or not be able to shower or move, but it does impact on me in ways that make me lose ground I don't necessarily regain.

                      But I still support them to have time off. For bloody obvious reasons, but also for less obvious ones. I want them to be part of the pool of support available for the people that are highly dependent.

                      As it happens, one of the workers works for an org that has a higher standard than the government is proposing. They RAT test daily, and there is absolutely an expectation that they won't come to work if they have symptoms.

                      Not as blinkered as you assume Pat.

                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:51 pm

                      I think this misses the point Belladonna. As I said, it doesn't have to be perfect. I'm talking about a cultural change where people don't have to go to work when sick. There are people who can still go to work when sick, people who can work from home, and adjustments that can be made. I've just given the real life example to Pat of disability support workers. That won't be universal, but I suspect there is a lot to be learned from that sector on how to manage.

                      The main point here is that pre-covid, we had a culture that said you should work unless you are basically bed ridden. Go to school sick, go to work, work hard, don't take time off, and god forbid take time to convalesce. New Zealanders work very long hours. We don't have a culture of care for our health. That's the stuff I am pointing to. I'm betting there's some productively studies that show that if people can look after their health, they work better and need less time off.

                    • weka …
                      2 June 2022 at 10:52 pm

                      I'm never impressed by TINA.

                • Drowsy M. Kram …
                  2 June 2022 at 10:39 pm

                  …and you wish to have anyone with respiratory symptoms avoid work?

                  Staying home? If you have symptoms? During a pandemic? Madness!

                  Otoh, 'soldiering on' is no longer for me, and I don't expect it of others, but personal responsibility and commitment are complex variable traits.

                  Long Covid Campaign
                  Although duration and severity [of Long Covid] vary, there is no apparent link to pre-existing conditions or levels of fitness, but there is some indication that ‘soldiering on’ through a Covid infection makes Long Covid more likely.

                  Expert reaction to ‘living with COVID’ plan, as announced to MPs by the Prime Minister [UK; 21 February 2022]
                  We don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water, and self-isolation remains an important way to protect ourselves and others, as we as we continue, cautiously, to put the past two years behind us and get on with our lives.

                  Reply
                  • pat …
                    2 June 2022 at 10:45 pm

                    COVID-19 affects different people in different ways. Most infected people will develop mild to moderate illness and recover without hospitalization.

                    Most common symptoms:

                    fever

                    cough

                    tiredness

                    loss of taste or smell

                    Less common symptoms:

                    sore throat

                    headache

                    aches and pains

                    diarrhoea

                    a rash on skin, or discolouration of fingers or toes

                    red or irritated eyes

                    https://covid19.govt.nz/prepare-and-stay-safe/about-covid-19/covid-19-symptoms/#covid-19-symptoms

                    Reply
                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:02 pm

                      COVID-19 affects different people in different ways.

                      Yep, in different and unpredictable ways – caution is (still) warranted, imho. Fortunately there are simple things that symptomatic people can do to minimise the risks to themselves and others.

                      For example, from the link you provided @10:45 pm:

                      While you have symptoms:

                      • Stay home. Do not go to work or school. Do not socialise.
                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:07 pm

                      Ok…I'll tell my employer on monday I wont be back until im symptom free, and i'll give you as a reference to WINZ….going on history I expect I'll be completely symptom free sometime around when im dead.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:20 pm

                      Best of luck using me as your reference smiley
                      I’m (still) plumping for common sense – better for us all, imho.

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:27 pm

                      Ah, so im allowed to use common sense now….make up your mind

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:35 pm

                      Ah, so im allowed to use common sense now…

                      Of course, although I hope you don’t think you need my permission.

                      I made up my mind a few years ago, and every day since.

                    • pat …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:44 pm

                      On that at least you are correct…i dont.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      2 June 2022 at 11:48 pm

                      On that at least we're both correct – nice to find common ground.

                • pat …
                  2 June 2022 at 10:47 pm

                  Labour is going to be in ever increasing demand….but not necessarily labour in the way some appear to understand it.

                  Reply
              • Rosemary McDonald …
                2 June 2022 at 10:33 pm

                Forgive the intrusion…city living whanau, all double vaxxed, all have had symptoms over the past few weeks.

                One of them works for an organization with a rule that even if you're 'symptomatic' you must have a positive test before you get the time off work. One employee's wife had tested positive…but he had to go to work as he tested negative. Snoughed his way through the working day… and to everyone's relief he tested positive upon returning home. This is an essential service associated with exports and they simply can't afford to have folks taking sickies. Hmmm….

                Another whanau member, also double vaxxed has had symptoms that saw the medical center send them to the hospital for extra tests. (All clear and sent home) RAT tests up the wazoo for three days and all negative. This morning unable to get out of bed with crushing exhaustion and cold sweats. Exact same symptoms as my man had back in March…and he tested positive. Their workplace was very understanding, but my young friend still felt obliged to try and work from home so as not to let their boss down. Mortgages and the like…fear of losing job, then home, is very real.

                Ardern has made a couple of accurate statements over the past two and a bit years. One was… ' …behave as if we all have the virus.' and the other was '…this is a tricky virus.'.

                Reply
                • weka …
                  2 June 2022 at 10:56 pm

                  tricky would be laconic Kiwi understatement. I think we are just getting started in understanding this, despite humans having built a large body of knowledge in the past two years.

                  I'm still waiting for the TCM stuff to land from China in the English speaking worlds. But nek minit, monkey pox. We're bloody thick sometimes.

                  Reply
            • Gabby 2.3.1.1.1.3
              3 June 2022 at 2:53 am

              If you didn't have covid you had something else right?

              Reply
      • SPC 2.3.2
        2 June 2022 at 8:34 pm

        If workplaces provided flu vaccine to workers that would help.

        Reply
        • Belladonna 2.3.2.1
          2 June 2022 at 9:00 pm

          Ours offers this.
          With the majority of our customers having a financial year ending 30 June – and pressure to spend their budgets by that date- it pays $$$ in reducing staff illness at a critical time of year.

          An example of a bottom-line driven decision, which also benefits employees.

          Reply
    • SPC 2.4
      2 June 2022 at 8:32 pm

      South Africa has just had another omicron wave go through.

      Apparently 98% have antibodies – only 11% from vaccine without infection.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/south-africa-was-hit-by-wave-of-infections-despite-most-having-antibodies/26VLJFZFJGO65HYKFTYFIVRA3E/

      Reply
  3. joe90 3
    2 June 2022 at 7:52 pm

    Cracking job strengthening NATO and the EU, Vova.

    Reply
  4. joe90 4
    2 June 2022 at 9:31 pm

    At the same rate, 150K suffering debilitating, long term health problems. Half that would overwhelm our health system so don't get sick and WTF you do, don't get old.

    Two million people in UK living with long Covid, find studies

    ONS figures show that one in five people with long Covid had the infection two years ago

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/01/two-million-people-in-uk-living-with-long-covid-say-studies

    Reply
  5. joe90 5
    2 June 2022 at 10:11 pm

    Israeli forces shot Palestinian journalist Ghufran Warasneh. She was denied medical aid and left to bleed to death. The IDF then attacked her funeral procession.

    Reply
    • Joe90 5.1
      2 June 2022 at 10:36 pm

      Reply
  7. Incognito 7
    2 June 2022 at 11:21 pm

    Game on!

    “It will also ensure public ownership is a bottom line for this Government, and the Bill contains strong protections against privatisation that will ensure this essential infrastructure is safeguarded for future generations.

    “The Bill also incorporates the recommendations of the Working Group on Representation, Governance and Accountability. It secures community ownership of the water entities, protects against privatisation, and ensures a stronger community voice in the new entities.

    “It ensures the collective ownership of the entities by local government on behalf of their communities through a shareholding allocated on the basis of population, as recommended by the Working Group.

    “The Bill contains robust mechanisms to provide for iwi/Māori rights and interests in our three waters system but makes clear these rights and interests do not include ownership.

    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-legislation-improve-water-services-and-protect-community-ownership

    Reply

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