Daily review 07/07/2023

30 comments on “Daily review 07/07/2023 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   7 July 2023 at 5:48 pm

   Okay, I have to rate our PM ten out of ten for this one…

   Prime Minister Chris Hipkins, in his first major foreign policy speech, has highlighted his leadership will not mean a major shift in New Zealand's approach to the world.

   Speaking at an event hosted at Parliament by the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, the prime minister [noted]: "We have seen a rise in political polarisation, a rise in more nationalist posturing, and a move away from political rationalism to the fringe, often spurred along by mis and dis-information."

   He outlined plans for the government to release a series of policy documents and assessments, which would include "investing in a combat-capable defence force", tackling disinformation, and building a public conversation on national security.

   He also put emphasis on New Zealand's "independent foreign policy approach", a favourite phrase for successive prime ministers before him. "The longer I've been in the role the more I've seen first-hand the enormous benefits of our independent foreign policy, our role as an honest broker, and the importance of our close relationships in enhancing our prosperity and security. It is important to stress at this point independent does not mean neutral," he said.

   "As a country, we may be small, but we are not bystanders. We chart our own course, with decisions that are in our national interest…Putting up walls and closing doors doesn't serve us well in the long term and engagement is always preferable to isolation."

   He paid tribute to former Labour prime ministers Peter Fraser, Norman Kirk, and Helen Clark, saying New Zealand needed to embrace their "legacy of principled independence" in contributing to shaping the international environment. "The choices we make, how we exert our influence, and how we project our voice, all matter. It means being neither naive, nor fatalistic about the challenges we face… I'm proud of our foreign policy heritage and I'm committed to continuing our legacy on the world stage as a force for good."

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/493334/watch-prime-minister-chris-hipkins-speaks-about-the-government-s-back-to-basics-foreign-policy

   I've scoffed at him often enough in the past here but have acknowledged about a month ago that he'd been doing surprisingly well as PM. This ramps up that impression considerably. It makes him seem a capable leader for Aotearoa.
   • Dennis Frank 1.1

     7 July 2023 at 6:25 pm

     I checked out how the two news channels on tv handled it. They both had it slotted in at a surprisingly low priority – perhaps because there was nothing sensational to up-rate it. I didn't like 1News using Geoffrey Miller as a sceptic – the guy didn't make any notable points yet they gave him two clips.

     What's with these people?? Geopolitical positioning is both important & crucial to our future path as a nation. It is extremely significant that a new young PM signals that non-alignment doesn't mean neutrality. It means he's smart enough to figure that out or is getting smart advice from someone and both possibilities bode well for us!
     • Kat 1.1.1

       7 July 2023 at 7:32 pm

       "Whats up with these people…..??……..Its the old idiom…who pays the piper calls the tune…..

       And Chippy is performing well as PM…….Helen and Jacinda most likely have both his ears….
       • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1

         7 July 2023 at 8:00 pm

         Luke Malpass spots a nuance and tells us more:

         In a wide-ranging speech, Hipkins sounded a more hawkish tone than his predecessor, and while not changing direction, he is clearly more comfortable and keen to talk about New Zealand having to spend more on both defence and national security, than his predecessor Jacinda Ardern was.

         He signalled that the Government would be releasing New Zealand’s first National Security Strategy, which could include “investing in a combat-capable defence force and wider national security system”.

         The speech also came as US President Joe Biden was reportedly weighing up giving Ukraine cluster bombs to help forces break through Russian lines.

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132501156/you-might-have-noticed-we-didnt-deny-that-hipkins-lays-out-his-foreign-policy

         So there's significantly more coming down that defence/security pipeline…
         • SPC 1.1.1.1.1

           7 July 2023 at 10:23 pm

           There is no link between the speech and the US consideration of supply of cluster bombs, mentioning it was poor form – a bit like Root gifting Marsh a ton and then getting out cheaply.
           • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1.1.1

             8 July 2023 at 1:09 am

             You discount synchronicity? I don't. I agree there's no evident link but the fact that Malpass seems to see one there was why I included the news. Can't eliminate context from a full view of the situation.
   • weston 1.2

     7 July 2023 at 10:00 pm

     Capable leader my arse the speech sounds like it was written by a PR team and how the hell could NZ even remotely consider itself to have an independent foreign policy when its a member of five eyes ffs and its actively supporting an anglo/american proxy war in Ukraine ??All these cute phrases like " investing in a combat capable defense force " since we already have a ccdf what does that mean ?? Spend a proportion of our gdp on defense perhaps ?like the europeans were exhorted to do recently ?join the global arms race ?

     and this one " building a public conversation on national security " what the fuck does that mean ?fear mongering about 'our enemies ' ?join with our ausie cousins in their insanely expensive submarine caper to thwart the evil chinese or the devilish russians ??

     The whole speech reads to me like a particularly nauseating display of doublespeak and the fact you rate it so highly dennis doesnt say much about your self proclaimed "radicalism "

     In your comment below you appear to be applauding a US decision to send cluster munitions to Ukraine in a further attempt to escalate the situation , total folly of course because it just means the russians will ' up the ante' as well and more people on both sides will die .Ukraine using cluster munitions is not actually ' new ' either they had and were using a type of rocket which disgorges hundreds of very small but non the less very dangerous plastic so called 'petal mines ' upon impact .These they used on civilian areas mainly afaik and theres lots of videos on line showing how the locals coped or not with them if you care to look .

     personally id never vote for labour or hipkins on the basis of this speech alone !!
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.2.1

       7 July 2023 at 11:57 pm

       "a US decision to send cluster munitions to Ukraine in a further attempt to escalate the situation"

       Russia has been using cluster munitions and incendiary munitions throughout this war, including on clearly civilian targets.

       So Ukraine using them is not an escalation, but is a proportionate response to an escalation that has already occurred.

       These munitions should have been supplied to Ukraine a long time ago, and will help reduce Ukrainian military and civilian casualties, by helping to defeat russia, liberate occupied territories from brutal russian occupation, and end the war.
       • Phillip ure 1.2.1.1

         8 July 2023 at 9:06 am

         Advocating the use of cluster bombs ..by anyone..is a total obscenity..

         End of story..
         • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.2.1.1.1

           8 July 2023 at 11:39 am

           War is always an obscenity.

           In this case the use of cluster munitions by Ukraine will likely result in far fewer deaths of innocent Ukrainians (both military and civilian) at the hands of russian invaders, so advocating for more Ukrainian deaths seems obscene to me.

           Russia has already laid hundreds of thousands if not millions of mines across Ukrainian territory, so demining will be needed in any case – and this can't happen until russia is ejected. Plus russia continues to make widespread use of cluster munitions, including in civilian areas. So the use of cluster munitions by Ukraine will likely result in far fewer explosives distributed across Ukrainian territory, including ironically of cluster bomb duds.

           The Ukrainians want to use cluster munitions on their own territory, to avoid ongoing murder, looting, torture and rape of their citizens – their view, as the victims in this war, should be paramount.
           • lprent 1.2.1.1.1.1

             8 July 2023 at 12:22 pm

             Probably a better comment than mine.

             But I like pushing personal positions against people who have unthinking and usually quite stupid reactive positions. Wishes don't stop the use of seriously awful weapons. Figuring out ways of making that obvious to those using them is a better way.

             I can't think of anything much better to bring that home than them being used against the Russian army, implicitly against the mourning families, and the effects in what is left of public opinion in Russia about the decisions of their out of touch elitist government.

             Same applies to unthinking ideologues.
             • UncookedSelachimorpha …

               8 July 2023 at 1:11 pm

               Yes, war, weapons are all yuk to me and I wish we didn't need any of it. But unfortunately that is not the world we live in. Certain types of "peace" can be as brutal and violent as war.
         • lprent 1.2.1.1.2

           8 July 2023 at 12:14 pm

           Pretty much my view as well.

           However given that the Russian Federation, the invading force, has been indiscriminately using cluster bombs since the start of their invasion and the cleanup will be on Ukrainian land I can't see your point.

           If Ukraine can use cluster munitions to clear the invaders from their state fatser, then that will probably reduce the number of cluster munitions that the Russia has been spreading since day one.

           But yeah, I understand that you're a rather silly absolutist. But surely you're not such a stuck-up prig that you can't see the argument for a military use of cluster munitions against the idiot armed forces that has been using them against civilian targets since the start of their invasion?
     • Dennis Frank 1.2.2

       8 July 2023 at 12:56 am

       Not hard to see it as a pr exercise in cynicism, I agree. I wear my sceptic hat sometimes still. I suppose where I differ in your first paragraph lies in how I see the balance between good & bad, given that the issue here is perception vs reality.

       The side of the good as a stance of moral righteousness is hard to criticise – except when taken too far. Realpolitik kicks in at some point & one must do a pragmatic compromise. The way I do that is to not get suckered by the anglo/american axis as a default view, but to relativise it into regional context. Then you get a power game with many players – Europe being the primary framing & NATO running a close second. The obvious problem with that scenario is that it isn't global so one must blend in that dimension (UN, China). Do you really think Xi is disinterested and not a player in this game? I doubt it.

       Re 5 eyes: I've always seen it as a conservative strategy that works on the basis of pragmatism. Spying has been endemic since whenever. Nothing new but tech.

       That connects to domestic politics via tradition and the general perception of our common interests. Neither you nor I can influence that much due to it being a mass effect, very inertial. Any progressive leader has to operate on that basis: it's our shared reality. Hipkins is using that pragmatic stance. Dissenting from the others in 5 eyes on particular issues (antinuke etc) and situations remains a viable positive alternative to switch to when necessary.

       Building a conversation is the current trendy framing this generation now in power here use for stimulating public discourse. You may want to point out that they mostly don't talk to each other and that's true. So we get a simulation instead – better than nothing. Those ready, willing & able to participate will do so regardless.

       Re participation in the trad arms race, yeah I agree it's an unpleasant prospect. However the precautionary principle is Green, not just common sense. Unwise to discount it. If China & Russia prefer peaceful coexistence, their geopolitical behaviour will show that, right? Count Putin out immediately. With Xi, wait & see. Military alignments are expedient, strategic, and part of our geopolitical context. Can't wish them away, but can evolve them away.

       Why you think I'm applauding a move that Biden hasn't yet made is a mystery to me. Is it because I failed to virtue signal at the prospect? If so, it's because I don't have the military intelligence on the situation there, Biden does & Hipkins may. The merit of that move on the regional chessboard derives from perception of necessity. I'm not in the loop therefore have no view on that.

       With regard to clustered weapons, I'll go with what US wrote in 1.2.1 – the main thing for me is that Hipkins is doing a suitable balancing act as part of the western response to Russia's war. Xi could choose to exercise moral leadership on the global stage, which would change this game. Dunno why he seems to feel that he must only operate in secret – I see no obvious downside for him if he were to choose the option of taking a public stance to transform the war into peace. Why do you think he's averse to operating as a statesman?
     • lprent 1.2.3

       8 July 2023 at 12:05 pm

       …because it just means the russians will ' up the ante' as well and more people on both sides will die

       The Russian armed forces have been using cluster munitions against military, civilian and infrastructure since the start of their invasion. Certainly there have been reports from the very first days of the invasion of using cluster munitions against many of the civilian airports. But there are certainly rather a large number of reports documented, this is a small summary in wikipedia for instance.

       Russia, Ukraine, and the US aren't signatories to the convention on cluster weapons, so they aren't hypocrites.

       However you certainly are in condemning Ukraine for seeking better weapons than they already have. Unless of course you wish to condemn the evil arseholes who launched this stupid war by invading Ukraine and then perpetuating a lost war – for internal political motives.

       But I suspect that you are simply too stupid to self-evaluate your own inconsistent morality.
       • weston 1.2.3.1

         9 July 2023 at 1:16 pm

         Kinda amusing how some place so much regard on an article by Wikipedia the piece you reference appears to be a cleverly constructed attempt to legitimize America's decision to provide cluster munitions to Ukraine .Obviously its 'hot off the press' because its reporting on events from only a few days ago {july 6 }News story's concerning latest escalations in the war are only just being reported on our media here and ' poof 'heres a brand new report maximizing Russia's crimes and minimalizing Ukraine's use of CM's .Since ALL of the references provided to support the wiki info are from western corporate press like the guardian reuters new york times etc etc whom we know are in lockstep with the official Anglo/American /Nato narrative of Russia evil invader Ukraine innocent victim spiel this attack piece {cause thats what it transparently is !!}doesnt even pretend to be unbiassed .

         By the way my "condemnation " of CM's would be simply that they are an abomination which in a less insane world wouldnt be used by anyone much less supplied by a world power constantly touting itself as a believer in "Rules based order " lol .

         Im pretty used to your use of insults which seem inevitably to be tacked on to your replys to comments you particularly disagree with but i often wonder why a cogent argument isnt enough ?
         • lprent 1.2.3.1.1

           10 July 2023 at 9:40 am

           'hot off the press' because its reporting on events from only a few days ago

           Clearly you simply don't use wikipedia* enough to know what you are blathering on about.

           If you look at things like polling pages, science pages, popular culture pages, and current affairs you'll regularly find events being reported on and almost daily basis.

           The references allowed by wikipedia are mostly from sites that require factual standards and verification of reporting. They usually distinguish between what they know, what they have heard, and what is opinion. In other words sites that are reasonably reliable at reporting rather than just making shit up. Clearly you find this approach to reporting to be unusual. It is why wikipedia doesn't tend to find the New York Post (for instance ) to be reliable. And why Trump loves that site.

           doesnt even pretend to be unbiassed

           The title of the page is "Use of cluster munitions in the Russian invasion of Ukraine" so that is what the information and links are that are collected in the page.

           I'd suspect that the reason that there isn't a similar page in wikipedia for Ukrainian usage of cluster munitions is simple. The Russian armed forces don't allow much visible reporting from inside the territory that they have occupied.

           There are few reports by reporters, military observers, distressed family, or war crimes investigators because they are excluded from the region. What you get instead is largely hearsay from military bloggers via Telegram, blatant propaganda by domestic state media (the private ones having been suppressed), and the occasional enthusiastic amateur from China who clearly tends to believe whatever bullshit tales are told to them by their handlers.

           Blame the Russians for their paranoia about accurate reporting.

           By the way my "condemnation " of CM's would be simply that they are an abomination which in a less insane world wouldnt be used by anyone much less supplied by a world power…

           So clearly you think that Russia are complete arseholes for their widespreads use of cluster munition, and you heartily condemn them for their conduct in their invasion for using them.

           Or it it that you only apply this judgement of the US? Which is my reading of your obvious hypocrisy.

           Im pretty used to your use of insults which seem inevitably to be tacked on to your replys to comments you particularly disagree with but i often wonder why a cogent argument isnt enough ?

           Because long experience on the nets (now greater than 40 years) has taught me that ignorant ideological bigots (as I perceive you to be) don't respond to cogent arguments. They simply ignore the facts and opinions being sent in response. They prefer instead to label the author of anything that they don't want to agree with with a label – because it allows themselves to avoid a cogent argument.

           Typically they don't even look at any links or quotes because they're rather lazy and not very assiduous about how they form their opinions. I'd point out that I usually read the text links of any comment I actually take time to respond to before I respond to. (I skip video because it is too slow, doesn't have links, and invariably wastes my time).

           I find that expressing my personal opinion of such boneheads is a educational experience for them. That is because to respond effectively they have to read the links I supply. Typically as upsetting experience to their world view as you clearly found it. Your distress at looking more closely at the reality of use of cluster munitions in Ukraine by Russia was quite evident in your comment 😈

           Of course the very best way to grab the attention of people who substitute labels on other as way to stop thinking is to respond with offensive to them labels. It is after all talking their language – which presenting cogent arguments is not.

           Plus of course I like arguing based on verifiable knowledge. So pointing out the gaping holes in the arguments of others is usually the fastest for me to get any information that they have is what I need to change my previous views. If they produce bullshit and links to the excretory organs in the way that you do, I like to express my opinion on the manure.

           That also gives me me pleasure. It allows me to exercise my facility with language crafting insults in this extremely nuanced English language. My usual writing involves telling computer how to move electrons. Tough to do elegantly, but lacks that pleasure in winding other people up.

           By which long response to your claim I hope that I have given you sufficient information about how to avoid my use of 'insults'. It unfortunately requires you to learn to not request them with your behaviour of not providing cogent arguments, making unsubstantiated assertions, and not backing them with links to verifiable information.

           • Or any other sites that aren't straight propaganda apparently. You usually read like a propaganda parrot.
2. joe90 2

   7 July 2023 at 7:25 pm

   lol

   @OAlexanderDK

   How it started:

   

   How it is going:

   

   https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1677044148858134528
   • Dennis Frank 2.1

     7 July 2023 at 7:53 pm

     Just another money grab. Duelling lawyers, then an eventual out-of-court settlement. I mean, it's not as if one can patent a technique. Humans copy. Mimesis. [insert eye-rolling emoji]
3. tWiggle 3

   7 July 2023 at 7:29 pm

   newshub with the gutter-joke 'menu from Leo Malloy's fundraiser yesterday

   As nice as the Ardern toilet seat 'just light-hearted fun'. Obvious that these guys have never outgrown their 3rd form boys' school 'humour'.
4. Dennis Frank 4

   7 July 2023 at 8:12 pm

   Green stakeholder design consensus politics actually works! https://www.newsroom.co.nz/river-group-claims-win-over-energy-giant

   Meridian Energy is valued at $14.4 billion, but it hasn’t had its own way over the country’s largest hydro power station. In 2018, Southland’s regional council notified its proposed water and land plan which changed the activity status of the Manapōuri power scheme from discretionary to controlled – something Meridian had pushed for. (This was done by commissioners, who went against the advice of council planning officers.)

   This aspect of the plan was appealed to the Environment Court by dairy company Aratiatia Livestock Ltd, which farms 600 hectares in Western Southland. Many other parties joined the appeal, including Meridian, conservation group Forest & Bird, and Ngā Rūnanga.

   In evidence to the court, opponents said the power scheme was causing devastating environmental effects on the river and the creatures within it. Last month, the Environment Court confirmed a settlement between the parties that changed Manapōuri’s status back to discretionary.

   “It’s an extraordinary outcome for a tiny community against the might of the third-largest company in New Zealand,” says Paul Marshall, a former Reserve Bank economist who’s a director of Aratiatia Livestock, and co-founder of the Waiau Rivercare Group.

   The Waiau was New Zealand’s second-largest river, in terms of discharge, with up to 95% of the river’s former flow allocated to the power station.

   It would be interesting to know if they used a broker or mediator, but all parties converged on a deal they were able to accept.
5. AB 5

   7 July 2023 at 10:13 pm

   Hipkins overseas. Has the Nat espionage unit got anything sitting on the shelf ready to run in terms of 'scandals' about Labour ministers? If not, will the media fall back on the old staple of how masterfully (in their opinion) John Key performed while overseas? Key has such a hold on the mausoleum of their minds, where he resides forever, yellowing a little with time.
6. Anne 6

   7 July 2023 at 11:46 pm

   Don't think even the Nats would be stupid enough to try that one on so again so soon after the last one. But then being naturally nasty can be a two way sword – the temptation might be too much for them. 🙂
   • Patricia Bremner 6.1

     8 July 2023 at 12:20 am

     Big write up on John Key getting his Helicopter licence.
     • Dennis Frank 6.1.1

       8 July 2023 at 1:04 am

       Oh, is he off to bomb the shit out of the Russians? A good keen man? Feeling the need to exemplify the trad kiwi male archetype in person?

       
     • joe90 6.1.2

       8 July 2023 at 1:12 am

       A rich boy with a new toy. What could possibly go wrong?
       • Phillip ure 6.1.2.1

         8 July 2023 at 9:16 am

         High flyer must fly high..
     • bwaghorn 6.1.3

       8 July 2023 at 11:24 am

       Got to keep up with best buddy Richie somehow
     • Anne 6.1.4

       8 July 2023 at 11:59 am

       Was responding to AB's comment:

       "Has the Nat espionage unit got anything sitting on the shelf ready to run in terms of 'scandals'… [while Hipkins overseas]

       The "temptation" was too much. That "nasty" ZB team Soper and HDPA have apparently come up with some sob story on Peeni Henare.

       Picking off Maori minsters one by one? That is how low some of those tabloid types are prepared to go? Racist to the core.
       • Patricia Bremner 6.1.4.1

         8 July 2023 at 2:28 pm

         Yes Anne Shame. They are predictable those Nat sycophants. Racist toadies.

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